Kevin’s Rule a chat with Kevin Krause - Season 4 Episode 3

An instant connection between the retired brothers and a serving police officer from the US. We talked origin stories, adventure readiness, retirement and relationships. A great chat with a new friend.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to another episode of Just Us on Justice and
other Things.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
I am Scott Jones, the co host here with my
baby brother, Dan Jones, and we are honored to have
our guest here. Kevin Krause hopefully said that right with
my Canadian accent. We're gonna go with this again, as always,
we don't plan shit, So this is just the opinions
of Scott, Dan and Kevin. Have nothing to do with
any of the places we work currently. We'll work in

(00:24):
the past or we'll work in the future. But Kevin
has a super interesting from my perspective background. So let's
start out with you are a police officer and we
were just talking about did you almost have thirty years on?
So maybe going into why did you go into policing
and like how has that been for our career because
we share a similar timeframe as far as how long

(00:46):
you've been on the job.

Speaker 3 (00:48):
All right, Tarsa one, thanks for having me on. I've
listened to probably twenty of your episodes already and you
guys are fascinating. It's really cool and I'm honored to
just to be here to talk with you guys today.
It's pretty exciting. Yeah, we do have a very similar timeline.

Speaker 4 (01:03):
So I just turned fifty four.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
I started as a police officer in nineteen ninety five,
I was twenty four years old, so I'm coming up
on my thirtieth year next month.

Speaker 4 (01:15):
So we're very similar, I think, and that regards.

Speaker 3 (01:18):
So I'm a I'm a police sergeant in a suburb
outside of New York City, and I think I think
our I do research on Edmonton. I don't really know
much about Canada, but it looks like like Edmonton, you
have about one point four or five million people, right,
So the county that I work in is about the
same thought population, but we're probably double the size as
far as geographical area, and we're more suburban than urban,

(01:42):
like I think you guys are.

Speaker 4 (01:44):
Does that sound right?

Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, we're very much, yeah, very much kind of big
city stuff, very spread out. But yeah, I don't think
we're quite one point four probably the surrounding area, but yeah,
around the same amount, right.

Speaker 4 (01:56):
So I think there's enough similarities there.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:59):
So for me growing up, I was like the lower
lower economic income growing up, and there wasn't a lot
of a relationship with the police. Police was it was
kind of odd, it was I wouldn't say it was adversarial,
but it was kind of like just stand offish.

Speaker 4 (02:14):
We never called the police in my neighborhood.

Speaker 3 (02:16):
If you had a problem, we just we just dealt
with it, right, like we handled things on our own
and and so I wouldn't say we hated the police,
but we never called them, and they really didn't bother
us either. We kind of just did our own thing.
But I was shocked when I did become a police officer.
I had no idea. I thought the police showed.

Speaker 4 (02:34):
Up when there was a homicide, like like that's that's
why police would come.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
And then like, when I became a police officer, I'm
going to like the silliest calls, like my neighbor parked
a car too coach, Like, are you kidding me?

Speaker 4 (02:45):
You're calling the police for this? This is absurd.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
But there was so much of that, like just petty
nonsense that people like solve your own problems.

Speaker 4 (02:52):
That's the way that I was raised.

Speaker 3 (02:56):
But so growing up, I didn't know any police officers
when I was young, never really thought that that would
I just didn't.

Speaker 4 (03:02):
Know that that was even something that I could do.

Speaker 3 (03:05):
And then when I got into high school, a really
good friend of mine.

Speaker 4 (03:08):
His dad was a New York City homicide detective, and
he was such a great guy. He passed on. He
was like a father figure to me and basically all
of our friends. He signed us all up for the
police test. He paid the application fee.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
Sent in and I never would have done it on
my own, and he wanted us all to.

Speaker 4 (03:25):
Be cops in the areas that I live in.

Speaker 3 (03:27):
There we live in the Especially back then, the pay
was really good.

Speaker 4 (03:32):
It was looked upon as a really good career, like
you were going to be set. If you got this
job financially, you'd be set.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
And as you guys know, I'm sure it was very
similar back in the nineties. Like police early nineties police
could do no wrong, like we always got the benefit
of the doubt.

Speaker 4 (03:47):
We would just you didn't have to pay for a
cup of coffee or whoever you went. It was just
all positive and not like it is today.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
So as I got older, I went to college and
actually I had like offered to be coming I could
have been an accountant. I went to school for accounting,
but I quickly realized that So when I went to
college too, I just I knew I had to I
had to get out with a marketable degree.

Speaker 4 (04:10):
I needed.

Speaker 3 (04:11):
I needed to get a job because you know, once
like once I turned to eighteen, you're.

Speaker 4 (04:15):
On your own.

Speaker 3 (04:15):
You got to figure stuff out. So I wanted to
be able to get out of college and have a job.
So that's why I did accounting. But then as as
it worked out, as I was about to graduate college,
the police test thing that I took actually came through
and they offered me a job. And I looked at
the pays and the scales, and I also realized, like
accounting really wasn't for me.

Speaker 4 (04:36):
I kind of liked to be outside, active and nature.

Speaker 3 (04:39):
And accounting was the opposite of that, and the police
was gonna offer me to be able to do that,
to be active, to be in the mix. And I
like excitement and just thrill and and a lot of
things that the police they scare me, but I like
to be scared.

Speaker 4 (04:54):
So that's that's like an a journal and rush for me.

Speaker 3 (04:56):
Right. So it was kind of an easy decision when
I decided to become a police officer, but there wasn't
a lot of support from like like my dad, he
was completely against it.

Speaker 4 (05:06):
When I told him.

Speaker 3 (05:06):
His response and I know it came from a loving place,
but his response to me was, why the hell would.

Speaker 4 (05:12):
You want to be one of those assholes I and
I didn't know. I didn't. I wanted him to be
proud of me, and I know he was. He's since
passed on too.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
I know he was proud of me, but he didn't
really always have the best way of showing it.

Speaker 4 (05:26):
And I know that was.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
Probably his way of saying, hey, there's a downside to
policing too, You're.

Speaker 4 (05:32):
Gonna go through a lot. But he didn't really know how.

Speaker 3 (05:34):
To say that, so he said what he said, which
I always think was really funny.

Speaker 4 (05:38):
But I knew there was no question, Like I was
excited when the time came. I was super excited.

Speaker 3 (05:43):
And I can remember going to the police academy and
we actually had we have guys that would quit like
the first week.

Speaker 4 (05:49):
And I don't know, was it the same for you
guys to people quit in the academy.

Speaker 1 (05:53):
No, not.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
Typically there's there seem to be so many on our day,
there seem to be a lot more applicants. So that's
probably a little bit where we don't get the applications
that we used to. Now it's kind of like in
the hundreds over the course of the year, and back
when we put in thousands of people for all the
reasons you said, like people love the cops. You got
the benefit of doubt. It was a cool job on TV.
You know, it's a cool job in real life. And

(06:14):
now there's such a negative connotation to it that I
think it's scared people away. So people aren't like, fuck,
that's something I want to do for the next twenty
five to thirty years. Sometimes it's like, ah, I'm gonna
get a trial due for a couple of years and
see how it goes. So I think there's been a
shift that way too.

Speaker 4 (06:30):
Right right, Yeah, same here for us. It's for different reasons.
So back when I went through the academy.

Speaker 3 (06:36):
Is hard like they they if they wanted a hundred cops,
they'd hire.

Speaker 4 (06:40):
One hundred and ten intending on having ten people quit.

Speaker 5 (06:44):
Now if they would just run you to your quit now,
it's probably opposite. Now if they hire a hundred, they're
getting a hundred through. Like I guess, I don't know
if it's economics or we put all this money into
getting these people.

Speaker 4 (06:55):
To where they are, we're not gonna get rid of them.
It's completely changed for those reasons. But I can remember
being in the academy.

Speaker 3 (07:02):
And the first week of a bunch of people quit,
and I remember standing there like thinking they have to
take me out of here in handcuffs, like if they
told me you're fired, Like I'm not leaving, Like there's
no way I'm leaving. I was so excited to be there,
and the academy was just a blash to me. I
had a great time, and like in the early days
of being a street cop, I loved going to work.

(07:25):
We had such a and I'm sure you guys had
similar experiences. The camaraderie, the friendships, the guys that worked with,
the phenomenal people, and just so much fun, like we
had fun in a good way, like it was we
just we made everything fun.

Speaker 4 (07:39):
And I can vividly remember I went out.

Speaker 3 (07:41):
To Las Vegas on vacation for a week and I'm
flying back.

Speaker 4 (07:44):
And you know, this is pre cell phone, you know, no.

Speaker 3 (07:47):
Communication, You're gone, You're gone, And I couldn't wait to
get home, to get to work, to find out what
did I miss, Like what happened, Like you know, what
arrest did we have? What crazy pursuits did we have,
like all, it was so excited to come home. So
you know, early on especially it was I always knew
I absolutely made.

Speaker 4 (08:07):
The right choice for career and it was super exciting.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
I totally agree like I and again thirty years that
I've just finished here. I tell people all the time,
I love ninety percent of it, Like love ninety percent
of it. And who gets to say that of whatever
twenty seven years, twenty eight years, whatever, that is up to.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
Where I love my job.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
In those early days, Yeah, when you go on days
off for four days, you're like, fuck, this is too much.
I don't need four days off, Like two would be good.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
I can just go back. And it was like that
all the time.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
And yeah, you got to drive somebody else's car fast,
you get to go to calls, all those things. I
remember phoning my partner and I was walking a beat
and I interrupted our armed robbery and progress by myself
initially and then actually Danny and up there with me,
and I phone my partner who booked that night off.
I'm like, hey, guess what you missed today? And he's
like fuck, and he was all mad that he didn't
get to go to the robbery and.

Speaker 6 (08:56):
Then then later separately, the two of us both had
the same thought and we talked about it, like probably
fifteen twenty years later. Fuck, is mum gonna be mad
if we both get killed at this robbery?

Speaker 4 (09:07):
Right?

Speaker 6 (09:08):
Yeah, because you're both there and you're like, this guy
has a gun and they're yeah, yeah, it was.

Speaker 4 (09:14):
It's got to be for you guys. It has to
be special. You know, to work with your brother like
that in the same department, that's really cool.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
Oh, it was awesome. Yeah, we got there.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
We walked a beat together on White two K on
nineteen ninety nine, turning in two thousand and we're both
in homicide in the same area as well.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
So yeah, we've got to overlap a few times.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
And we come up with the police family, like our
dad was a cop, and uncle and aunt was a
civilian columns, Like, we basically have no other skills other
than getting a paycheck for EPs.

Speaker 6 (09:43):
Our cousins our cousin still a cop. He's a crime
scene guy, right.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
Excellent.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
So you're obviously the physical nature of recruit or academy
training we call recruit training was fine for you because
you also have kind of a background as an athlete, Yes,
like you were.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
Yeah, yeah, So maybe go.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
Into that a little bit as far as how that
has translated not only to making you successful at the start,
but how you've kind of kept up with that physical
nature of challenging yourself and pushing your boundaries.

Speaker 4 (10:15):
Right.

Speaker 3 (10:16):
So I was, I was a college athlete Division one
track scholarship.

Speaker 4 (10:20):
That's that's how I ended up going to college. I
wouldn't have otherwise. So I went out of a full scholarship.

Speaker 3 (10:26):
Ran competitively, national championships, all that kind of stuff. I
had a fairly successful career, and then pretty much about
a year after graduation is when I get I signed up.
I was in the police department of the Police Academy.

Speaker 4 (10:40):
So the physical was was a breeze. That was a
complete like joke for me.

Speaker 3 (10:44):
And even academically, I went to a pretty tough college
college at William and Mary in Virginia, and accounting programs
pretty top notch, so which was a struggle for me,
But the academy was kind of easy I had. I
just had a great time there. As far as I
put me, I feel like all the athletics stuff, this
is just the stuff that I love to do.

Speaker 4 (11:05):
That's my release, and I think and I've always done that.

Speaker 3 (11:08):
I never stopped when I when I graduated college, I
got quickly.

Speaker 4 (11:12):
There after I got into competitive marathons.

Speaker 3 (11:14):
I was my goal was to make it to the
Olympic Trials, and I got real close.

Speaker 4 (11:18):
Did quite make it.

Speaker 3 (11:19):
Then I got competitive into triathlons and went to the
iron Man World Championships.

Speaker 4 (11:23):
And then I just started doing ultras and on and on.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
But I never took a break from that, and it's
just that's my release.

Speaker 4 (11:30):
That's the thing that I love to do.

Speaker 3 (11:32):
And I really think, like I listened to a lot
of your podcasts and all the things that you guys
have seen some traumatic things and dealt with, and I
have similar stories, and I feel like the running and
the activity really helped me mentally to be like, I'm
still super positive. I still love the job and all that,

(11:52):
and I think it's the exercise and all the adventures
that I've been on that have really helped me have
a positive attitude and just stay samee Because like you
guys have, I've seen crazy, crazy stuff that's just not normal,
you know, it's really messed up. And when you add
them all up, right, like thirty years, twenty five years
of it.

Speaker 4 (12:12):
It's a lot, you know.

Speaker 3 (12:13):
And at the time you guys talk about this, you know,
you'll see something and you're like, yeah, it didn't really
bother me, but it does, right, And then there's times
when I'll just break down and you know, something will
remind you of that event and it's it could be traumatic.
So I know, for me, it's huge, you know, And
you guys have talked about a lot too. It's like,
drinking is the culture. It's getting better, but it's always

(12:35):
been the culture. Especially when we started in the nineties,
the answer to everything was go to the bar and
have a drinking you know. And I was. I was
big into that, you know, and to some extent I
still do. But I think I'm fortunate enough to have
enough of the athletics stuff to be a positive thing
to not just go drink all the time to deal
with these things.

Speaker 6 (12:55):
Yeah, when it's crazy when you talk about that, Like
in our police headquarters, we actually had a comfortable's lounge,
a sergeant's mess and an officers mess right in the
building with a military mess license which allowed service for
you know, later than the normal business hours that you
would go to a bar, and that was it was,
you know, and that I think that place is pretty

(13:17):
quiet now, but it used to be like that was,
you know, almost expectation was after you know, after a
noon to ten, after a four to two, after eighteen
to four, go up there, and and and and and
some of it was really good because some of us
where you built those relationships, right, but but surrounding with
alcohol was probably it's probably not the best thing, but

(13:40):
one hundred percent agree with you on the on the
athletics and stuff and that as and as a way
of metabolizing what you've kind of gone through. And watching
him do the two nine oh two nine stuff was
was crazy to watch them, h you know, even watching
them prepare and then being there for the event and
watching them just and even like the one time actually

(14:00):
was worried about them, I left. It was the night
they were going through the night and I'm sure you've
done it, so you've done the night, and they weren't
making any sense coming off of the like they were
at Both him and his partner were like, it's just
kind of stupid. And then I'm like, and I'm gonna
let you go on a fucking mountain now, and so
I actually didn't sleep well that night because I thought
he was gonna fucking die because he was making no

(14:22):
They were making no sense. They obviously their bodies were
tired and their brains were tired. And You're like, I'm
letting two stupid people go climb a mountain and the
middle fucking night. And I'm feeling pretty bad about that,
which was great, And I don't know if you heard it.
I think we've talked about this on the podcast before,
but I actually had the weirdest thing in the world
happen where I thought he had called me and said

(14:43):
that they were coming off the mountains, texted me, Yeah,
he texted.

Speaker 7 (14:46):
I read a text that said, oh, we're done earlier
than we thought. Whatever, be here. Whatever.

Speaker 6 (14:52):
So I go and I'm waiting for them at the
top of the mountain and I'm looking at for this text.

Speaker 7 (14:56):
I never had a text. He never texted me, did
you like Trea?

Speaker 2 (15:00):
I kind of I kind of telepathically when we got
up at four because we finished our fifth ascent, went
to sleep for about three hours, and before we started
our sixth ascent, I kind of sent him a message
in my head. I'm like, oh, don't worry about it.
We're good. I didn't send it like that. Literally, was
just something I wasn't even really conscious of. I'm just like, no,
we're good, and we'll see up there at whatever time.

(15:21):
It's going to be so with somehow that landed in
his head that he thought it was on his phone
and it wasn't, because he even got up and told
my wife, because my wife and him were our support team.
And I said, yeah, no, we're good.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
They're good.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
They'll we'll meet him up there at whatever time. But
there was no text. Yah, Scotty, I said. I got
up and said, yeah, Scott, he texted me, this is
what's happening. And I got to be here this time.
I get there and I'm sitting there literally on my
phone looking for this mystery text.

Speaker 7 (15:44):
I'm like, the fuck. I know he texted me, but
I don't know. I must have raised it or And
then they get up there and he's like, yeah, I
never texted you.

Speaker 4 (15:51):
Yeah that's wild, wild stuff.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah so you know this, but because how could you
the Jessehley talking about Kevin's rule and I know you're
the Kevin that he's talking about you that has been
told to about a thousand people up here because I
do presentations as a part of my job. So I
showed a little clip of Jesse talking about Masogi and
Kevin's Rule, and then I talk about those things. So

(16:16):
there's a thousand cops and civilians in Edmonton Police who
have heard your name talking about Kevin's Rule. So can
you just talk about where that came? Did you call
it that or did Jesse call it that? Or what
that principle is.

Speaker 3 (16:30):
First of all, it's really cool. It's an honor. So yeah,
that's all yess. So Jesse and I are really tight.
For about ten years, we've been friends and going back
maybe I don't know, seven or eight years ago. We
went up to Mount Washington, which I've been doing for
thirty years, go open the winter time and hike, ump

(16:50):
sweep outside in the cold.

Speaker 4 (16:52):
I've taken all my kids at all different ages.

Speaker 3 (16:54):
At one point I took my three teenage daughters and
one of their friends. Actually they were like team fourteen
fifteen that age, so I took four of them on
this mountain that is some of the most extreme weather
in the world, but it's just a magical place. Sleeping
outside is nobody else around. Usually we go over the
only ones sleeping on the mountain, which.

Speaker 4 (17:15):
Is super cool. So I take Jesse up there.

Speaker 3 (17:17):
So it's my daughter's probably at the time, she's probably
like ten or eleven. His son's aroound the same age.
So it's the four of us on the mountain, and
he just couldn't get over it, like he's done. I
mean this, Jesse could go anywhere he wants, he could
go on any vacation. We're on this mountain and he's
just he's so excited. He's lighting up and he says,
get like, this is unbelievable.

Speaker 4 (17:39):
Were the only people in the whole world on this mountain.
This is so special.

Speaker 3 (17:43):
He's like, how often do you do this? I said, well,
I do this trip every year. Sometimes I'll come in
this summer. I'll do a summer trip which is totally different.
And then I have a group of guys that I
work with from day one. There's about ten of us,
and every year we go on an adventure and it's
just something.

Speaker 4 (18:00):
It's like this, we did Grand Canyon we Zion National Park.
We just go on some cool hike adventure. There's always
a water sport involved. So we do that every year.

Speaker 3 (18:09):
A couple family trips. So I said, you know, like
every month, maybe twice a month, I'll do something cool
like and it doesn't always have to you know, I
have to do with money. So a lot of stuff
we do, Like we'll just camp on the beach by
our house. It's free, and we set up a tent.
We like a bonfire, we bring the kids down, we'll
go jump in the water at night. Like it can
just be something different, cool like that. And I feel

(18:31):
like probably no matter where you live. I know where
I live, there's so many cool spots and like a
lot of people like I live on Long Island and
outside of New York City and a lot of people
like a Long Island.

Speaker 4 (18:41):
It's terrible, the.

Speaker 3 (18:42):
Traffic, the congestion, but there's so many hidden gems.

Speaker 4 (18:45):
And I think everywhere and.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
Probably in the world, there's hidden gems where you live
that you just if you really think about it, there's
cool places. So go to those places, like I'll take
my son kayaking at night, like fishing, just whatever.

Speaker 4 (19:00):
So anyway, I tell Jesse, I.

Speaker 3 (19:02):
Do this once a month there every other every other week,
and uh so he just coined.

Speaker 4 (19:07):
That he thought that was so cool. So he coined
it Kevin's Rule.

Speaker 3 (19:10):
But to me, it's like he's just doing stuff really
and it's not this big thing, but he made it.
Jesse's very good at, like I don't have a hard
time explaining it and like as I am, and making
it sound cool. He's really good at taking an idea,
listening to people, taking ideas, and then and then giving
it to mainstream people and making it really cool.

Speaker 4 (19:30):
And that's I think that's what he did with the
whole Kevin's Rule thing. But I'm honored and it's really cool.
You know, it's a cool thing that he did.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
But it's such an important principle that I had never
heard explained like that before. And I think to a
lesser extent, I've done pretty good about doing that kind
of stuff. And I didn't know the term Withsogi until
he started talking about it. But then I'm like, well, no,
I kind of do that as well. So two nine
or two, which we can talk about him in here,
was mine for last year, but we I kind of
try to do. We have a cabinet a province next

(19:57):
to us here, so we go there all the time,
and you can be on the water and standal paddleboarding,
like that's just part of what we do. But it's
such an important thing for anybody in a first responder
population too, like we said, because you're dealing with such
terrible shit every single day that's going to leave marks
and scars if you don't kind of move it through
and those types of adventures. And again pushing that boundary

(20:20):
because sleeping in the tent in the winter there you're uncomfortable,
it's not going to be super warm and all that
kind of stuff, and it's not really dangerous, but there's
a your system kind of things, there might be a
little bit of danger and you're doing it on purpose deliberately,
which then kind of you can teach yourself and we're fine.
This is a little bit stressful, but it's no big deal.
And that's such an important lesson. I think that you're

(20:41):
teaching your kids as well. So how do they deal
with and your wife deal with you being a police officer?
Is it all good?

Speaker 1 (20:47):
Or is there? What are your thoughts there?

Speaker 4 (20:50):
Right? I mean so much, I don't know. I know
a lot of things that's that's weird for them.

Speaker 3 (20:58):
Like I got that I had a lot of similar
jobs as you guys, I was. I was in charge
of the gang unit for one at one point and
that was a really crazy time for us, with a
tremendous amount of homicides, gang.

Speaker 4 (21:11):
Violence, what else.

Speaker 3 (21:15):
And then and then like you know, so now I'm
in the canine division, so we deal. We're involved in
all the all the fun stuff, right, like every homicide,
we're pretty much involved in all the narcotics, raised all
these things.

Speaker 4 (21:26):
So I'm getting phone call.

Speaker 3 (21:27):
I always get a phone call at the house at
the dinner.

Speaker 4 (21:28):
Table, and like it's not uncommon for.

Speaker 3 (21:32):
Me to be talking about a crazy homicide on the phone,
and I'm just getting information, Well they found the arm,
Well where do they have both legs?

Speaker 4 (21:38):
And like this is something that I'm talking about at.

Speaker 3 (21:39):
The dinner table, and like what is Dad talking about?

Speaker 4 (21:43):
Like what is this? So I guess they're kind of
used to it now.

Speaker 3 (21:47):
But it's it's got to be odd, I would think
for your family, right.

Speaker 4 (21:50):
I know, my wife had a really hard time.

Speaker 3 (21:52):
When I was on the in the gang team. She
was really scared because you know, they threatened that they're
gonna kill cops and they're gonna follow you home and
that kind of stuff. So I'm sure, you guys have
similar stuff. So I think that was really hard on her.

Speaker 4 (22:07):
And I mean too, you know, that's that's stuff that
you have to deal with.

Speaker 3 (22:11):
I think it's hard for you know, police families. I
think it's really hard. It's so different, you know, it's
and especially now that we're not we're not always the
good guys anymore, you know. Like well, when we started,
we were we could do no wrong. And that's and
I love that.

Speaker 4 (22:23):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (22:24):
You know, we always had the benefit of the doubt.
Unless you were doing something criminal. You never had the.

Speaker 4 (22:29):
Second guess, you've made a decision in good faith, you
were fine. And now it's not really like that.

Speaker 3 (22:33):
You could, you know, you could make a great decision
and you could be a big trouble right like. So
it's it's such a different time. But yeah, it has
to be hard for the families.

Speaker 6 (22:43):
What's interesting when you talk about ganging and that stuff
like that. I always tell the story of how to
piss off your wife is you get a death threat
from a gang member. Because the one day I had one,
a relatively significant one, and so that the department came
and and you know, to take care of us, they
put an alarm specific alarm system in the house that

(23:04):
linked directly to nine one one. If it went off,
it came in as an officer and assistant needs assistance call.
So my wife's going through all that and uh and
and then we're sitting outside with our neighbors after they
do this, and a tactical team had actually come to
our house and and done taking pictures, so they knew,
you know, if there was an incident, you know, where
the rooms were, the layout of the house and all
this kind of stuff, which.

Speaker 7 (23:25):
That made her a little bit angry.

Speaker 6 (23:27):
But then we're sitting there in neighbors and one neighbor says, yeah,
the sniper came over and said there was a great
op from my window. And my wife's like, fucking seriously,
like now you're in the neighbors now have fucking snipers
in their house. She was fucking choked.

Speaker 7 (23:41):
Like it was not like and I but it's it.

Speaker 6 (23:45):
And for you know, for us, it's unfortunately that becomes
part of the job and you kind of get used
to it and you don't realize the impact that you
have on your spouse. And it wasn't until you know,
my my retirement and and I think you'll probably have
the same things got.

Speaker 7 (24:00):
But when.

Speaker 6 (24:02):
We lost two members in Edmonton here and I'd been
fired already, and my wife just reached over and grabbed
my hand and just said, I'm so glad you're not
there anymore. Right, And she'd never said that before. She
never other than being mad at me for the death
threat and stuff like that, or calling her from Colonna
when I.

Speaker 7 (24:21):
Was undercover and saying, I don't want to be home.

Speaker 6 (24:23):
Enjoy the two little kids that you got by yourself,
and the things that every cops spouse puts up with.
But she never once made me feel bad that I
was doing the job or made me feel that she
was scared. And then realizing that now that you're out
of it, that there were times that she was scared,
and there were times that she worried, and and you
know that, you know, and I.

Speaker 7 (24:45):
Think Scotty had the same thing when he talked.

Speaker 6 (24:46):
About going on one last shift. She's talked about going
on and he's retiring. He's like, you don't want to
do I'm gonna get out there. I'm like, fucking take
him to the shift butt, And then.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
Like the same thing, I got to do anything I
wanted my career. My wife like yet whatever, I was
in homicide and all the things whatever, on call all
the time. So yeah, I'm coming to the end, and
I'm like, yeah, i'm gonna put my papers in, I'm
gonna be done. So I am, but I'm kind of
working my last month. I'm like, I'm gonna go for
one more ride with a friend of ours who we
grew up with. He's a staff starting in the North End.

(25:16):
I'm gonna go, right, and my wife slams her hand.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
On the table.

Speaker 7 (25:18):
She goes absolut fucking lutely not.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yeah, Like that's like every movie that's gonna win, and
that's when something bad happens. I'm like, okay, you've never
said no to me before, Well listen, I won't go
on my last final ride along.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
So it was all good.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
But the same thing with the when the two members
were killed. I didn't realize the stress. I kind of knew,
but you don't know the stress that they were under
because my oldest boy was finally a two boys, but
my wife and my youngest boy, they were struggling with
it a lot, and I didn't realize how worried they
were about me. The whole time until I was like, Okay,

(25:54):
it's time for me to go. So it was just
like and I don't think society acknowledges, like everybody wants
a shit on cops with what we have or have
them done, but nobody really acknowledges the stress that the
families render right right now.

Speaker 4 (26:07):
It's a lot.

Speaker 3 (26:08):
When when I got out of the.

Speaker 4 (26:09):
Gang unit, my wife was a static. She was she
was terrified, and I don't blame her, like yeah, so
she was very happy when I when I left that
that spot.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
Uh does she do adventure stuff as well? Like is
she running races with you or kayaking and all that?

Speaker 4 (26:24):
No, not at all.

Speaker 3 (26:25):
So we did one great thing that we have when
she likes to walk, like fast fast walking, So we
walk pretty much every day every day.

Speaker 4 (26:34):
That I'm home, where we walked six miles in the morning.

Speaker 3 (26:37):
First thing, which is it's such a great thing for
our marriage and for our connection. And I actually I
hated it at first for just because I wanted to run.
I don't want to walk. But I incorporated that into
my ultra marathon training so like I would do whenever,
I just did one hundred and one hundred and nine
miles recently, like a couple months ago, and in training
for that, I would I would get up, i would

(26:57):
run twenty miles in the morning, then I'd walk ten
with her and then run another ten. But so it
was all part of my training, which it just made me.
It made it great because now she's super happy we're
getting that time together and I'm also getting great training
in So I was very fortunate to find a way
to incorporate you know, my training things that I love
to do, and then also our relationship and time together.

Speaker 4 (27:19):
So that was a huge, huge impact on our relationship.

Speaker 7 (27:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:23):
So how did you go from track, which I'm imagining
shorter distance or were you running longer distance as a
track athlete in college?

Speaker 4 (27:30):
Yeah, I did the.

Speaker 3 (27:31):
Longer stuff, so mostly like the ten k distance down
to the model, but I was more of like a
ten k guy, so the longer stuff came supernatural for me.

Speaker 4 (27:41):
That's more of my thing. So like when I when
I graduated.

Speaker 3 (27:45):
College in the police to Fellman, I started doing marathons
and that was really like my you know what.

Speaker 4 (27:51):
I was good at.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah, and then how did you transition into ultras?

Speaker 4 (27:55):
So actually, when I met Jesse the Instagram.

Speaker 3 (27:57):
Like ten years ago, I met him out in Sun
Valley at a conference and we went for a run together.

Speaker 4 (28:04):
We just happened to cross parents. We went out for
a run and he's asking me like, hey, what are
you doing.

Speaker 3 (28:08):
I'm I ran New York City Marathon, Boston, done a
bunch of.

Speaker 4 (28:12):
Marathons, and he said, well, I like to run one
hundred miles. And at the time, I'm thinking that's insane.
I gotta run a marathon. I'm done, Like, I'm never
gonna run more than a marathon. He goes, no, no,
you will, You'll do it one day, And sure.

Speaker 3 (28:24):
Enough he kind of got me, you know, hanging out
with him. He made it mainstream for me, and yeah
he was. He was doing it years ago, like when
it was nobody did it. Yep. So he kind of
got me into it. And now I just love doing
the long stuff. It's so it's so therapeutic, Like I
just I'll go out for four hours and it's it's
no music, nothing, just in my own head.

Speaker 4 (28:46):
And I absolutely love that.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
Yeah, that's a superpower, is the no music nothing is
I'm the same. I have never ran or worked out
with earbuds in and that was a transition time for
Danny to.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
Figure that out. But I find it.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
It gets gone on all the files in my head
and I haven't done. The closest thing to an ultra
done is two nine o two nine, But it's my
body likes that too.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
I'm not fast at.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
All, like I'm a slow Clydesdale, but I kind of
like the one foot in front of the other for
the whole day and leading up to two nine to nine,
I was doing twelve hour walks to Colin o' brady
twelve hour walk thing and accidentally covering like forty five
forty seven k in a day with not even a
plan on a that and just one foot in front
of the other. And I like that kind of suffering,

(29:29):
quietly putting one foot in front of the other.

Speaker 4 (29:31):
I love it. Product with the same, the same thing.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
Except you're fast, because you I saw a clip of
you doing two nine o two nine, and I have
and again I just follow Jesse on Instagram and stuff.
I've never seen him speechless, and he was eating a
bowl of cereal talking about you doing the two nine
to nine as fast as you did it, and he
couldn't even he couldn't even say words, so how many
times have you done that event?

Speaker 3 (29:55):
So I did it the first year they had it in
Stratton I think it was twenty seventeen when the inaugural
I did it there.

Speaker 4 (30:02):
That was a really cool event, that was awesome. Then
I did the.

Speaker 3 (30:06):
One in Utah in twenty eighteen, and then this past
year I was fortunate enough to be able to do
Sun Valley, Idaho and Jackson Hole. So you know, as
you know, it's not a race, this isn't There are
some competitive people there, but it's really more about you know,
you're competing with yourself, right like for everybody.

Speaker 4 (30:24):
And I really appreciate that. So, like, my intention.

Speaker 3 (30:27):
At Jackson Hole was not to set any kind of
record or blaze through the course.

Speaker 4 (30:32):
But what happened was out there and we ran the
first I don't.

Speaker 3 (30:36):
Know why, but we ran the me Jesse, a couple
of other guys in our group, we ran the first hill.

Speaker 4 (30:42):
It's seventeen I think in Jackson Hall.

Speaker 3 (30:44):
We did the first one fairly quickly, and we were
up in the front, and you know, we're always talking
about it.

Speaker 4 (30:50):
Jesse's like, do you think we could keep this pace?
Is that possible?

Speaker 3 (30:52):
And we're talking about all this stuff, and I'm thinking, yeah,
like we can keep this pace. So then he says
he wants to go see his case.

Speaker 4 (31:00):
He's great with his kids, like he doesn't want to
miss anything.

Speaker 3 (31:03):
So he decides we're gonna fly back to New York
to see his kids have like a camp, open house
something like that, so he wants to He says, well,
we have to leave by eight o'clock at night to
catch the plane to go to New York to see
to see the kids.

Speaker 4 (31:17):
We want to see their thing. So he's like, kept,
we're doing. That's what we're doing. That's what we're gonna do.
So I'm doing the.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
Math and I'm like, well, if we keep at this
pace and keep we can finish, like we can finish
the event. And he's like, there's no way, it's that
possible to have enough time. And we're arguing back and forth,
and finally he's like, yeah, listen, you can't deal with
but if you want to try it, go ahead, try it.
So I said, okay, well that's what I'm gonna do
then and then and I just hammered it out and

(31:45):
ended up finishing and basically I finished ran from the Gondor,
got in the car, drove to the airport and then
flew to First of the Country to the open house thing.
Oh it was a lot of It was a lot
of fun. But you know what, you also when you
do that, like when you're doing the way I did it,
it's fun for me, but it's not fun like you
don't get to meet the people.

Speaker 4 (32:05):
It's much like so when we did Sun Valley, we
did it at a casual pace for us, and we
talked to everybody and that that's like, really what you
get a lot out of it, at least.

Speaker 3 (32:16):
For me, is just meeting people and you know, talking
to people about their struggles and that's the really cool
part of it. So as much as I did enjoy
pushing myself probably to my limits, I didn't get any
of that interaction, which you know, I don't know, I
don't know what's better.

Speaker 2 (32:34):
Yeah, I think maybe, like so you knew you could
do that and again finding an edge of comfort for yourself.
But you're right, the event itself is so community based
with everybody right, and there's no prototype. Like I said,
when people are like, well who does it, I'm like,
it's not twenty five year old super athletes. It's if
there was a prototype, it's probably a lady who's forty

(32:54):
eight years old who doesn't look like she's going to
move that far, and then she kills it and she
totally does. It was a super cool experience out way.

Speaker 6 (33:02):
And I think one of the coolest things was for
being a support person. I end up probably having more
interactions with people doing the two nine Oho two nine
than he did on the mountain because being at the
top of the mountain all the time kind of I
was up there a little earlier than them one.

Speaker 7 (33:15):
Time, way too early, and you'd see the same people
coming up.

Speaker 6 (33:18):
So I ended up talking a bunch of people, and
I'm a talkative dude anyway, and they're like, and You're
having these conversations, and then when they finished, I'm like,
watching all these people that I've I've really kind of
been able to interact with and watch as they've done
this journey and see people, and it was, you know,
for not actually doing anything other than going up and
down a gondola, it was it was a very cool

(33:39):
experience to be a support person because you did have
that you saw that level of community that he's developed
in that two nine oh two nine population right.

Speaker 4 (33:49):
The event is genius. I mean it really is.

Speaker 3 (33:51):
Just it gives regular people the opportunity to do something
really extreme in a safe environment, and.

Speaker 4 (33:59):
It's like changing for most people that do it. It's
life changing.

Speaker 3 (34:03):
It's fun to be there. The energy there, as you
guys know, it's so awesome. I love the energy there.
It's any chance I get to go, I try to go.
It's so cool to be a part of.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:14):
The year before I volunteered because the person I end
up doing it with she was doing it, so my
wife and I went there to be her support person.
So I was the same thing as Danny. I'm like,
not a fucking chance. I'm never doing this is insane.
And I'm sitting at the food station or whatever, and
I talked to everybody, and everyone to a person would go,
have you done it?

Speaker 1 (34:32):
And I'm like, no, you have to.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
And then by day two I'm like, well now I
have to because it was just that kind of event.
And I was with a volunteer. His name was Ted,
and he was We're in Whistler, so we're in Canada,
and he was one of the most remarkable dudes. I
don't even know if he's real, he might have been
just an angel that I just conjured because he was
just such a remarkable Hupand he would walk down and
particularly the people who were really struggling, he will go

(34:56):
up to them and he just kind of walk with him,
say you're He was so like emotionally attached everybody. And
then after he's like, I come off from me. He
look me right in the face. He's like, I just
want to know their story. I want to know what
they're doing. And then he's crying. I'm like, dude, you're
making me cry like ten times today. He's like, well,
that's a difference.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
I just cry.

Speaker 2 (35:13):
You don't cry. I'm like I do. But we got
to hand out snacks and get the water and stuff. Ready,
I can't be crying, but it has. It had that
kind of emotional impact on everybody there. And then as
you know, getting that red hat at the end, there's nothing.
That's the best hat I've ever got in my life.
And I'm bawling my face off as I'm going up
that red carpet.

Speaker 7 (35:33):
Right, I'm still not doing it.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
No, You're still not doing it.

Speaker 6 (35:38):
Hold on, Dan, you know what, I you know what
I always say, I was saying this to him when
he was doing the training, and and I think everyone
has an everest of some sort, right, like everyone has
a thing, right.

Speaker 7 (35:50):
And for me, it was fighting.

Speaker 6 (35:52):
Like I I started fighting competitively when I was about
eleven until I was about nineteen in martial arts before
UFC even existed. I was fighting in open martial arts
tournaments all across Canada. And then I started boxing while
I was on the Police department. And my final boxing
match was actually in Spain at the World Police and
Fire Games in two thousand and two thousand and one,

(36:17):
which was really interesting because it was the first It
was the Police and Fire Games right after nine to eleven, right,
and I ended up having talked about an emotional thing.
I ended up sitting in the boxing just getting weir
idied away in and then New York and the NYPD
had a boxing team that they still have a boxing
team NYPD. So I'm sitting there with these guys from

(36:38):
New York and the firefighters, and I'm sitting there talking.

Speaker 7 (36:41):
To these guys that were at nine to eleven.

Speaker 6 (36:44):
And for me, like that was just like You're sitting
with these guys and you're having this conversation. The one
firefighter that was there, he was the only survivor from
his battalion, And you're sitting there talking to these guys
and you have this. So for me, that was kind
of this pinnacle of you know, that was my last fight,
and I was around this emotion and and and I
still I still hit the bag. That's one thing I

(37:05):
still I don't do silently. I like to have music
on when I hit the bag. I'd like to have
really hardcore eighties.

Speaker 7 (37:12):
Wrap, but that is what I like to have when
I hit the bag. But but I think everybody needs that.

Speaker 6 (37:21):
Whatever, whatever it's if it's an everest or, if it's
an Ultra, if it's a fight, you need that. Everyone
needs to have those moments in their life where you've
done something, or you've accomplished something, or you've you know,
hopped into a ring. And I and I realized the
the intensity of hopping into a ring and fighting a
person is something a lot of people would never do,

(37:41):
just like I would never climb a fucking mountain for
three days.

Speaker 7 (37:45):
Other people might not want to get punched in the face.

Speaker 6 (37:47):
And I and I think everyone has to find there
the thing that moves you and gets you to where
you need to be right.

Speaker 4 (37:54):
No doubt, the mad Man respects for your box and things.
So just a quick Storry department.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
Had probably back ten years ago, they had a charity
boxing thing and I think we were going against the NYPG.

Speaker 4 (38:07):
It was to raise money or whatever. So they had
a whole thing away.

Speaker 3 (38:09):
They would train you for six months and I'm like,
I'm doing it.

Speaker 4 (38:12):
I'm all in, so I'm doing all the training. I'm
loving the training.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
And then the first day was faring and I'm faring
with this guy and he just punches me as hard
as you can in the face, and.

Speaker 4 (38:24):
I'm like, yeah, I'm good.

Speaker 3 (38:27):
It's like that Mike Tyson thing, and everyone's got a
plan to get punched in the face, right, Like, like
I could train all day long, getting punched in the
face is just a little bit different.

Speaker 6 (38:36):
Well, Scott, he would hop in the ring with me
and train with me sometimes and it used to drive
him nuts, right because I've always been smaller than him,
Like I fought at one hundred and fifty six pounds,
and I would do stuff because I'm a dick, so
would I would keep my hand really low and I'd
throw an up job in his face and pop him
in him off.

Speaker 7 (38:52):
But we do.

Speaker 6 (38:53):
We also I started with this warm up. It's called
the steel waldrill. And what you do is you hold
your hands like up against your face and the person
and one choose your hands.

Speaker 7 (39:01):
So it just gets you warmed up. With this idiot.
I hit him once and then he as I'm following
me through with my right hand. He's he's he peekaboos.

Speaker 6 (39:10):
It and I punch him right in the face and
he loses it.

Speaker 7 (39:14):
We were just taking it easy.

Speaker 6 (39:15):
He's grabbing, he's trying to Then he starts throwing the
haymakers and I'm then he gets tired, and I'm like, you, dude,
you fucking opened your hand out.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
I couldn't counter two.

Speaker 4 (39:25):
That's great.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
Yeah, And if we fight with rules, he wins every time.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
If we fight with no rules, I win every time.
I just gotta get.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
Yeah, I said, straight up boxing. He's gonna kick my ask.
But if we don't have any of that, I can
get a hold of him. He's he's toast in very
short order.

Speaker 7 (39:40):
Well, we were.

Speaker 6 (39:41):
We were actually sparring one time in a gym. It
was called Panthers Gym and it still exists, but not
in the same place. It used to be underneath uh
a butcher meat shop. So he'd smelled like blood and
ship in there like it was a it was a
dank place, right, And we're there and we're sparring. And
this is when I was doing martial arts, and I
I used to be very flexible.

Speaker 7 (39:59):
Now I'm just chutting, But I used to be.

Speaker 6 (40:01):
I used to do this front kick where I fake
the front kicks my and I bring your hands down,
I kick you in the face. So I do a
roundhouse and so I do that to the end and
I hit him. I didn't pull it as much as
I should have, and I split his lip open. So
he fucking tackles me in in the in the ring
like the people around and everyone's.

Speaker 8 (40:19):
Like rushes over like I think George's mom. I'm just
they're like, oh okay, yeah, yey guys. You guys were like
we're brothers. Are like okay, and everyone stopped. No one
gives a fuck anymore.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
It's yeah, So how do you schedule your like you
obviously still training for things like if you have a
goal in mine or is it like this is just
what I'm gonna do I'm always going to be doing
this kind of ultra training or or whatever kind of
grand event misogi, if you want to use that term,
how do you manage to keep motivation versus discipline? Like
there's always those Instagram posts what motivation has got nothing

(40:53):
to do with it?

Speaker 1 (40:53):
But how does that.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
Work for you that you're able to with family and
and uh and still working fit all that in more
like a waiver people to go. I don't know how
I could do that, but how would you suggest they
do that?

Speaker 4 (41:08):
Right? So there's there's this it goes up and ups
and downs and and like when I.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
Have something big on the calendar, like I just in December,
I did this last man Standing ultra event.

Speaker 4 (41:18):
I ended up doing one hundred and nine miles.

Speaker 3 (41:20):
So when I was training for that a few months
leading up to it, my wife knows and my family knows, like, Okay.

Speaker 4 (41:26):
This is he has something big on the calendar.

Speaker 3 (41:28):
And right now I might not be around as much
as you know I'd like to be. But then but
then when that's over, then then I'm and I make
up for it, and like I'm really good at just
like going all in. Like like, for example, the part
where I would tell you I would. I was running
a forty mile training run. One of those miles were
walking with my wife and we spent ten miles I

(41:48):
don't know, three, three or four hours together.

Speaker 4 (41:50):
So like I'm making it work.

Speaker 3 (41:52):
And I love like puzzle piecing things together. I love
telling this one story. This is going back years, but
this is the perfect example. So well, my I have
four children and when they were little, my oldest was
probably twelve thirteen, you know, down to like five. So
you know, my wife, she's stay at home and she's
taking care of all the kids, and you know she
needs a break every now and then. So it's a

(42:12):
Sunday morning early, I'm off that day. I tell her this,
today's yours. I got the kids.

Speaker 4 (42:18):
Do whatever you want to do. You want to sleep,
you want to go shopping, whatever. So I take the kids.
We go to the local high school track. It's a
beautiful spring day.

Speaker 3 (42:25):
There's nobody there, and I'm training for I have an
event coming up, so I'm doing a track workout and
I orchestrate this whole thing. Where my son was on
the track team at the time, so I give him
a workout. He's doing like whatever. Half of what I'm doing.
I have my three young daughters. I have them set
up doing little.

Speaker 4 (42:41):
Sprint races, and it was it was just magical, Like
we learn this beautiful track, it's a beautiful day. There's
nobody there, We're the.

Speaker 3 (42:48):
Only ones there. It's like seven o'clock in the morning.
Everyone's doing great and mino. It doesn't always work out
that way. They I've never replicated that exact name. And
I go back the next week and my daughter is
frying the other two to a fighting. You know, my
son's upset. But this one particular day was like magical.
And then after we go get ice cream, we go
shop and we just had a great day.

Speaker 4 (43:08):
But now my wife said, she's happy, she gets it.
She gets a day off. My son got a great workout,
I got great training. My daughter's had a blast.

Speaker 3 (43:16):
So I just try to I try to do multiple
things and and and just work it all in together,
like puzzle pieces together. And I don't mind, like I'll
get up at four in the morning if you know,
like I don't care.

Speaker 4 (43:28):
You know, I don't care about that. When I'm all in,
I'm all in and I'm not gonna I'm not gonna.

Speaker 3 (43:33):
Just neglect my family responsibilities because I'm training for something.

Speaker 4 (43:37):
I'm gonna make it work somehow, somehow, I'm gonna fit
it all in.

Speaker 3 (43:40):
And if i can't, I'll let them know and I'll
make it up to them, you know, I'll tell them.

Speaker 4 (43:44):
Look, you know, the next three days, I'm I'm doing
a training block. I'm not gonna be around much. But
on Sunday, whatever you guys want to do.

Speaker 3 (43:51):
You want to go to my daughter's like, and we
don't like the same things, Like my daughters an't into
art and theater. I'm going to see plays and music
that I'm not into.

Speaker 4 (43:59):
But I always tell them, like you a concert, and
we do it.

Speaker 3 (44:02):
We'll go see concerts in New York City that they
want to see.

Speaker 4 (44:05):
I'll take them on trips.

Speaker 3 (44:06):
So like I have them like they have to do
some of the stuff that I want to do, Like
Mount Washington, that's my thing, but they actually have grown
to love it where we do that every year we
go up in.

Speaker 4 (44:15):
The winter Mount Washington.

Speaker 3 (44:17):
But then they get to pick, like we'll go to
Boston and see a concert that they like to see
and stay overnight.

Speaker 4 (44:22):
So I just I'm very cognizant of it.

Speaker 3 (44:27):
About not neglecting all the responsibilities and then and then
for me, the big thing and Jesse too, we're big
into the calendar, putting everything on the calendar.

Speaker 4 (44:36):
Because if you don't, it's very easy to let things
slip away, right Like, next thing, you know, Wow, I haven't.
I haven't done anything in a month, three or four weeks.

Speaker 3 (44:44):
But when you see it, like, we love his big
ass calendar. We love the big calendar where you can
see everything. You put it on the wall and you
can see and I got everything's color coded, so like
green will be trips and so you can like, I
don't see enough green, all right, I I put more
green up there.

Speaker 4 (45:01):
But pre planning is a big part of it, right.

Speaker 3 (45:04):
If if you don't plan ahead of time, then you
just get lost in your responsibilities.

Speaker 4 (45:08):
And next thing, you know, you haven't done. You know
you haven't. You haven't done the things that you really
should be doing, well.

Speaker 3 (45:14):
That I want to do.

Speaker 2 (45:15):
That's so cool. Uh, how do you work on fueling?
Because are you still working shift work in your gig too?

Speaker 4 (45:22):
Yeah, a little bit of shift works.

Speaker 3 (45:24):
We do days and nights and the nights are to
two in the morning, which it's not easy anymore now
fifty four and it's like that used to be not
hard at all.

Speaker 4 (45:33):
Now it's like it's just really it's tough. But so
what was your question on nutrition?

Speaker 1 (45:38):
Yeah, like, how are you eating too.

Speaker 4 (45:42):
Hard? That's the hardest part for me. My wife's really
good about it.

Speaker 3 (45:47):
They eat really clean and I'm very fortunate, I said,
she stay at home for the well for the most part.
She started working a little bit, but she does a
lot of the prep work for me, which I'm very
fortunate to have that because if if she doesn't, I
end up eating fast food, which is terrible.

Speaker 4 (46:03):
Right. Yeah, So that that's the one that's one of.

Speaker 3 (46:07):
My big struggles is trying to eat clean and healthy.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:11):
I think then again, prep prep, you know, prep meal
prep if you can do it on a Sunday and
make the chicken and rice for the week or what
have you.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
Yep, So what do you have on the calendar coming up?
Then what's your next few months look like for events
and training?

Speaker 3 (46:26):
Right? So another thing like you had, I think, I
forget your question exactly, But what am I training for?

Speaker 4 (46:32):
It? So we, like Jesse and I have this this
mentality we call it adventure ready, yep. So I always
want to be ready. If the phone.

Speaker 3 (46:42):
Rings and and one of these guys says, hey, we're
gonna go. We're gonna go climb the Grand Canyon next month,
I'm in.

Speaker 4 (46:47):
We're gonna do an iron Man. I'm in.

Speaker 3 (46:49):
Whatever it is in my wheelhouse. You know, I can't
do everything but the things that biking, running, swimming, hiking, climbing,
like any of that stuff. I never want the phone
to ring and say, you know, I'm not in shape
for that. There's no way I'm not saying no. So
we call it an adventure ready, always ready to do
whatever our friends call and say, hey, you want to.

Speaker 4 (47:09):
Do this race or this challenge.

Speaker 3 (47:12):
So that's pretty much where I'm at as far as
stuff coming up. I don't have anything like in Stone
this year, but I always want to. I want to
probably I probably do like a two hundred mile bike
ride one day. I want to try to get that in.
I'd like to do another Last Man Standing race and
maybe get like more than I've ever done, like one
hundred and twenty something like that, and whatever. My things

(47:34):
are just gonna come up. I know I don't really
have them set yet, but as they come up, I'll
be ready to go.

Speaker 6 (47:40):
Awesome is just thinking about ready to go. We had
to help somebody move this week and it was an
individual that was kind of leaving a kind of bad situation,
so it was kind of a rush move with no
packing and I'm carrying farmer carrying sixty pounds that they're

(48:00):
taking with them. I'm like, from upstairs, downstairs to a
U haul and then out of the U haul downstairs
to the other place, and I'm thinking of myself.

Speaker 7 (48:11):
I know I'm not in the best shape of my life,
but the fact.

Speaker 6 (48:14):
That you can get up and do that for eight
hours and just freaking haul shit around, moved, moved guests
and move stuff. I'm like, I'm kind of grateful to
my body that I can freaking just get up and
do that. I'm not doing an iron man out of it,
but you just can get up and your you you
can rely on your body to do kind of whatever

(48:34):
you need your body to do, because you've done enough
to take care of that body, which I think is
is it's amazing that you're adventuready, and I think more
people need to be just ready to just get up
and do anything that needs to be done.

Speaker 4 (48:46):
Right right.

Speaker 3 (48:48):
I feel very fortunate because you know, I'm sure you
guys know a lot of people our age have tremendous
either health issues or stuff that maybe it's not even
their fault, just you know, bad knee hips, we see
all his shoulder injuries. I have my aches and pains,
but overall, I've been super fortunate.

Speaker 4 (49:05):
And it is not a day that goes by there.
I don't appreciate that, and you know, thank God for that.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
Yeah, yeah, it's important.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
Anything else you want to we're getting closer end time here,
Anything else you want.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
To cover that we didn't cover?

Speaker 4 (49:17):
That went quick?

Speaker 1 (49:18):
I know it was so proud, so quick. We uh yeah,
we've been called. We've been called what was.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
It not surprisingly shockingly disarming, shockingly disarming or yeah, something
like that, because people will get nervous. I don't know
what I want to talk about him like that. I'll
be fine because we're on a planet. And then all
of a sudden, holy shit, it's been an hour, not
quite an hour, so we're not rushing yet when we're
happy to keep on going.

Speaker 6 (49:40):
I was just going to tell you so I just
have a quick story. So you were in gang unit.
So when I was in a gang unit. I arrested
lots of people and I put this one. I put
these two guys in jail for about seven and a
half years. Well, one of those guys who did six
he did six years in a federal penitentiary, came and
helped me move this individual that d to move right away.

Speaker 7 (50:01):
So this guy was.

Speaker 6 (50:02):
A gangster back in the day, and he he came.
I called him up and said, hey, I need some people,
and he's like, I'm there, and he and he's done
so good, and you think about that, you think like
he's and he's an interesting guy too, because he's an
intermitt and faster, he's a workout or he's like he
pro the process the other side of the of the
criminal coin through physical work and also his faith in

(50:26):
God and stuff like that. So it's pretty cool to
see other people and all walks of life kind of
commit to these kinds of things. And then you call
this guy up who you put in jail for six years,
and he's like, yeah, I'll be right there, no problem,
And he comes and freaking helps move this person.

Speaker 7 (50:38):
And it was pretty cool to see. And you think
about that.

Speaker 6 (50:41):
You know, you were in ganging and you think about
some of the hard guys you dealt with and and
potentially some of those folks have changed and are doing well.

Speaker 4 (50:47):
Now that's amazing. That's an amazing story. I absolutely love it.

Speaker 3 (50:51):
But going back to you, like the mental health stuff,
I know you guys talk about it all the time,
and I think it's so important. And thankfully I feel
like our police department and throughout the country they're taking
this stuff more serious, and the shame of it's kind
of going away a little bit, I know, Like you know,
the stuff that we've seen. You have to have some
kind of positive outlet and the breathing, the whim hoff

(51:17):
I do and the hot and cold therapy. But whatever
it is for everyone, I guess it could be different,
but it's just so important, and especially that it's not
you know, drugs and alcohol and negative things.

Speaker 4 (51:28):
Right, And hopefully we keep going in that direction.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
Yeah, we've over the last little while learning what I've
learned and reframing it that we're physiological creatures and we
try to think our way out of our trauma or
dysregulation or whatever the word is, and there's we've got
to get back to the physiology of it and oftentimes
it's moving your body a lot, getting sunlight on your eyes,
trying the cold and pushing your system that way, trying

(51:52):
to heat, pushing your system that way, and doing all
that deliberately so that when life throws things that you're
not expecting, you're able to kind of absorb all those
and deal with that stress. But if you just sit
here and again pouring booze on, it is not going
to be the solution. And I've tried that and it
didn't work. So there's other ways here. And I would
think as a as a sergeant, you would have a

(52:13):
big influence on the folks that you are supervising too,
that are going to look up to you in these
regards because I know in our time when you had
a there's a guy named John Fisher who was a tactical,
good guy and he was like an athlete of all athletes.
It looked like he was sculpted. And he's just one
of those guys. You can't think he's in his sixties.
I think he's sixty five now and he just did
another marathon last year. He's that kind of guy, and

(52:35):
I think that people look up to that to go
I want to I want to be that. I want
to be still moving and doing all things, like you said,
being adventure ready. So I would imagine you're having that
kind of impact on the young folks around you.

Speaker 3 (52:46):
Yeah, I mean, I just I'm not I kind of
lead by example. Yeah, I mean hopefully that's that's the
way it goes. But I'm not a big like telling
people what to do.

Speaker 7 (52:55):
I don't.

Speaker 4 (52:56):
I don't feel like I have all the answers.

Speaker 3 (52:57):
I know what works for me, and I just hope
that other people can see that, like, hey, maybe that
could work for me.

Speaker 4 (53:03):
Too, or or they could find their own thing.

Speaker 3 (53:05):
It doesn't It doesn't have to be ultra running, right,
It can be boxing or whatever it is.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
Yeah, it could be like your kids are in art
or theater creativity, because there's that's not my thing either,
but that's still something that I think works for people
and anything you can do. I don't know if you've
ever heard of doctor Kevin gil Martin. So he is
a psychologist, and he wrote a book called Emotional Survival
for Law Enforcement, which we all got when we first
got hired, however, many years ago, and he talks about

(53:31):
all the ustas so and when you're a copper whatever, five, ten,
thirty years. Well, I used to go camping, I used
to run, I use it. And there's all the usas
and back to your calendar idea. If you don't make
time and put them on there and do the things,
they'll all be useless. And then then you've, like you said,
you've you've kind of passed your life by and maybe
now you're overrate or you're drinking too much or whatever,

(53:53):
and then it's a harder mountain to climb to get
back up into that even just getting back to level,
never mind getting to the kind of next level of
being adventure ready right by good stuff awesome. Well, I
think you should try to be.

Speaker 6 (54:08):
If you want to do an adventure, you should make
your way up to Canada and come check our mountains
out not far from Edmonton. You're three hours to Jasper
and go do a nice hike up there.

Speaker 4 (54:20):
Sounds amazing. I love it.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
Yeah, we're we have beautiful rock mountains up here in
Alberta and then Saskatchewan. If it's all lakes like the
province next door to us here, it's all very flat,
but just ridiculously beautiful lakes everywhere.

Speaker 4 (54:35):
I mean, I hope I get to see you guys
and love to keep in touch.

Speaker 7 (54:39):
Keep talking awesome.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
We'll just close it off here, don't don't turn off
just but yet.

Speaker 6 (54:45):
I'm just gonna say that we were recording this from
Treaty six territory, you know, the home of the Dene,
the Creed, the Lakota Sioux. Many different Indigenous people have
walked around the lands here.

Speaker 7 (54:58):
And you know what, it's interesting.

Speaker 6 (55:00):
Because it's really cold right now, and I think about
that when I think about the indigenous populations and the
maytea that would survive and camp and feed and eat
and take care of each other and minus you know
what's right now with the windshill. It's minus thirty nine
this morning when I woke up. And these individuals who
will walk through this land for time a memorial lived

(55:21):
it and did it without buildings in a way that
they knew how to live with the land.

Speaker 7 (55:26):
And I think it's a good reminder.

Speaker 6 (55:27):
For all of us to think about where we are
and where we're standing, and how the land can be
part of us and the relationship that we should.

Speaker 7 (55:34):
Actually have with the land.

Speaker 6 (55:35):
And I think that's an important lesson that our indigenous
brothers and sisters can teach us that have a good one,
love you, love it,