April 14, 2025 • 42 mins
Dr. Linda P. Chinn is a native of New London, CT who currently resides in Douglasville, GA. She fulfills her mission of uprooting and pulling down false belief systems in the lives of God's people to build them up by planting in them the incorruptible seed of the living Word through her various ministries. Dr. Chinn is an accomplished entrepreneur and the creator of Linda Chinn Ministries as well as the founder of Christian Women in Training Network.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Keeping It Real with Doctor Linda Chen. This
is the podcast where real life choices need biblical truth
without the plot. Tune in and I read second and
fourth Monday at GWPM in Eastern Standard Time as doctor
Chen shares faith filled, practical insights to navigate everyday challenges.
(00:21):
Get ready for real talk, real life and real answers.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Good afternoon, Good afternoon, Good afternoon. Welcome to another episode
of Keeping It Real with Doctor Linda Chen. I'm Auderbel Currenty,
producer of the show, and pretty soon I'll be bringing
up doctor Chen and her press, her guests, her guests,
missus Brady James, and today we're going to talk about
something and I'm sure a lot of people are kind
(00:46):
of going through right now, like have you just been
going through it by contemplating life over the last four
months because of all of the stuff that's going on.
Have you just been thinking about what what's happening right now?
What's happening with my life? I'm confused, I feel disconnected.
Are you been have you been thinking about all of that?
When this conversation today is gonna help you kind of
work through some of what that is and how you
(01:08):
can move forward in a more peaceful way because I
know it's a lot happening in our world today, a lot,
a lot. So Doctor Tenn and her guests is gonna
come on and they're gonna talk you about you know,
what is that you're contemplating? What is that got you
confused and you know, kind of dazed and trying to
figure it out because it's a lot. And I get
it because hey, listen, I myself go through a lot
(01:28):
on a daily basis with just life, and so I
know that this episode is gonna bless you, So be
sure to subscribe to the show so you never miss
an episode.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Share this episode right now.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
It's live with someone who may be going through something
something and they need to hit his message. My brother,
my brother put out a message on Facebook this morning.
A kid that he was about to go pro in
the NFL. He had an accident and he committed suicide,
you know, and it was it was so quietly kept
that he was keeping all these things inside, and so
(02:00):
because of what he was contemplating, he contemplated suicide and
he succeeded. We don't know what people contemplating, but today
I hope that this message bless you and it blesses
somebody and share with two people, at least two people.
It's live right now. So Doc furnther dial. I'm gonna
bring up doctor Linda Chen and missus Freddy James. Good afternoon, ladies,
(02:23):
good afternoon, Good afternoon.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
And Audrey, thank you, thank you so much. And I'm
glad you brought that up about the contemplation or the
gentleman who committed suicide and what we think about. And
you know, these are things that we can really be
in tune to. And so I thank doctor Freddie James
for coming on, because she's gonna hit it from both sides,
(02:46):
from the spiritual side and the practical side, even for
those who are not perhaps believers in the Lord Jesus,
no matter what our background is, the contemplative lifestyle, even
of a leader, is essential. Now we know this is
a faith based show. And one thing I do know
is that sometimes I've heard that believers practice yoga and
(03:09):
do meditation and all of this stuff where she's coming
from is going to be I believe this approach is
going to be new to some people's ears. And I
think it's so vital in this particular time because people
are all over the place in their thinking. And you
know what I'm saying, and just a little bit excuse
me about her is wonderful, wonderful woman of God. I
(03:31):
love her, lover, lover. She's a native of Atlanta. She's
a minister of the Gospel. She is she's accepted her
call into ministry in nineteen ninety nine. She is a
professional counselor. Concentration is spirituality and counseling. And her one
of the things I love too about her is because
(03:52):
of her interest in health matters. So she's interested in
health matters, physical health as well as mental health. She
volunteers with several health education and research awareness organizations. And
then so she's not just a heavy person everybody. She's
not just the minister of the gospel. She is a
real live person who loves gardening and reading and watching
(04:15):
crime genres and documentaries. So, without further ado, I want
to introduce my wonderful friend, doctor Freddie James. How are you.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
What I am doing well? How are you? Doctor chan?
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Good?
Speaker 5 (04:29):
Good, good good great? Great to hear, great to hear.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
So some of these things the contemplative lifestyle, just the
word contemplative, A contemplation is new to some people, even
seasoned believers. So one of the questions I asked in
marketing the podcast was, do you want to know what
a contemplative lifestyle is? Like, well, they're doing the show,
(04:56):
what is the contemplative lifestyle? What is this thing?
Speaker 5 (04:59):
Well, as you know, to contemplate means to think about,
to turn something over very deeply, and to examine it
from different sides. But when I speak of the contemplative,
generally speaking, I am speaking of the Christian contemplative lifestyle
because this is all centered around Christ, and the Christian
(05:21):
contemplative lifestyle focuses on deepening one's relationship with God through
practices like silent and a prayer, meditation, and you're aiming
for a spiritual union and transformation into Christ's likeness. It
involves being still and allowing God to reveal his will
(05:42):
and cultivating a life of love, love for others, love
for God, and a life of service.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
So I love this, and I also believe it's important
that we bring this into the Christian lifestyles because many
Christians don't know about the contemplative lifestyle. We know that
many other religions do believe on meditation. We know this right,
transcendental meditation and those things for instance. So that's why
(06:12):
I wanted to bring you on. And what is its origin?
What is a contemplative origin?
Speaker 5 (06:20):
I'm glad you asked that the origin of Christian contemplation
can be traced back to the life of Jesus himself,
who invested great amounts of time into prayer and solitude
with the Father. As we know when we examine the
life of Christ, it's clear that communion with his Father
with the utmost important to Christ. We can also go
(06:44):
back to early monastic traditions like those of the desert
mothers and fathers around the third and fourth century, who
went out and lived in ascetic type communities. They gave
up their worldly possessions, they gave up their worldly goods,
and they lived very simply, and they committed themselves to
(07:05):
lives of prayer and solitude and fasting just to be
close to the Father. Yes, these were figures like The
Christian contemplative was also influenced by figures like Saint Teresa
of Avalue and Saint John of the Cross, who wrote
Dark Knight of the Soul back in the sixteenth century.
(07:26):
Both of them were the Kamalite Carmelite order. And in
the nineteen seventies there was a gentleman you may have
heard of called Thomas Keating who sought to introduce to
reintroduce us to the contemplative Christian tradition with something called
centering prayer. Now, modern day teachers and theologians that had
(07:47):
practiced and taught about the Christian contemplative tradition include people
that come from a variety of Christian traditions. These include
people like Richard Rule, the author and priest, Richard Role,
Cynthia Borjeaux, Howard Thurman, Richet Foster, and I can't leave
out my dear dear friend, my professor Gary Moue.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
I love it. I love it. So when she talks
about the monastic lifestyle, she's talking about the monasteries and
the monks. It's the lifestyle likened to that of a monk.
And this is important people who are believers, and why
I really wanted to bring her on because we don't
we know the Word tells us to meditate on the
(08:29):
Word day and night. It tells us that Scripture tells
us even in New Testament, that Mary pondered. Mary was
a ponderer. She sat and she thought, and she contemplated things.
And as a believer, it is important that we developed
this lifestyle around some forty six to ten. We know
(08:50):
what that says, right, be still in no so, let's
let doctor Freddie just help us through something so that
you can develop your own spiritual formation. Most believes have
heard of, you know, spiritual disciplines like prayer, worship, journaling, retreating.
Doctor Freddie, why do you think the Church does not
talk about the discipline of Christian contemplation.
Speaker 5 (09:14):
I'm glad you asked that question, doctor Chan. The Church
doesn't always emphasize contemplation, partly because it's not explicitly defined
in the Bible and can be seen as a practice
that relies on the subjective experience rather than objective revelation.
Some Christians also see it as potentially associated with practices
(09:37):
from other spiritual traditions, sort of causing a disconnect with
what we call traditional Christian teachings. For example, while contemplation
has its roots in the Bible, specific methods like centering
prayer often passed down by tradition from one person to
the other instead of being explicitly talked about. It scripture.
(10:01):
Another example is some argue that contemporary prayer relies too
heavily on the personal experience, which can be seen once
again as subjective rather than the objective revelation of the Bible.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
All right, so what is I know what? But for
our listening audience, what is centering prayer?
Speaker 5 (10:25):
Centering prayer is simply prayer where we focus on a
sacred thought, or a passage of scripture, or even a word. Say,
the word might be grace, and we might focus on
that word and we just allow ourselves to be bathed
in soap with the grace of the Father as we
(10:46):
meditate on that word. But as humans, we find that
our minds drift. Our minds is the way we'll hear
the washing machine, we'll hear cars going up and down
the street. But the idea is to bring ourselves back
to the sacred thought without beating up on ourselves, without
condemning ourselves for allowing our minds to drift. These minds
(11:07):
were given to us by God. He knows them better
than anyone else, and he's not holding that against us,
that our thoughts drift. The idea is in centering prayer
is to come back to that sacred thought, come back
to that sacred word, come back to that passage of scripture,
and continue to medicate. Meditation and being okay with the
(11:28):
drift of the mind and coming back. It's a win
win situation. It's a win win.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
And I love the fact that you pointed out in
different ways that if when it's not if your mind's
gonna wander, it's when it's your mind and my mind
wanders off. That we don't need to condemn ourselves. And
I think that this thing about the contemplative lifestyle to meditate,
that to have centering prayer would help us when we're
(11:54):
feeling depressed to the point where we consider suicide. It
helps us to bring us back to the point and
centered in Christ where we won't contemplate divorce as much
as we contemplate, for instance, mercy or if we contemplate,
as you stated, grace or forgiveness or oneness. And so
(12:15):
it's important. She also points out talk about the point
of the part about the contemplative lifestyle as it relates
to spiritual growth and formation.
Speaker 5 (12:29):
Okay, when we we focus on the contemplative lifestyle, would
you say that again?
Speaker 4 (12:38):
Please?
Speaker 5 (12:38):
I'm sorry, doctor Chan, repeat your question.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
Yeah, so, let me put it this way. Why is
the contemplative lifestyle essential to a believer's spiritual growth and
their formation?
Speaker 5 (12:51):
Okay, okay, thank you for repeating that. It's because it
causes us to focus our mind on the object of
our greater affection, which is Christ. It causes us to
walk in an awareness in our daily lives of Christ.
We keep our minds focused on Him. We keep our
mind focused on the love of God. We keep our
(13:13):
mind focused on the wonderful things that He does with
us for us. We learn how to not always have
to talk to Him in words. We learn how to
be in His presence and just soak up the presence
of God. We learn to walk in an awareness of
the constant presence of God all the time. Sometimes we
(13:35):
do things like we go on retreats whereas silent and quiet,
where we're able to just soak in the presence of God.
But the object is to bring that back into the
real world, and to be able to do that even
when we're in a crowd of people, even when circumstances
are not going in our favor, even when things are
not just like we would have them be. We understand
(13:56):
that God is our constant companion. We have the right
as children of God to call on him at any time.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
And for those I would say to who have never
confessed Jesus, I'm going to share this that the Bible
simply states in Romans ten nine and ten that if
you confess that Jesus is Lord right and believe that
God raised him from the dead, you are saved. You
have a relationship where it'll afford you eternity with Christ Jesus.
(14:31):
That's not the end, that's just the beginning of the
spiritual growth and the formation. So for people who deal
with anxiety, I know many believers, doctor Freddie, who deal
with a severe anxiety, severe sadness, and depression. And people,
if you're listening or now or later, make it a
(14:54):
point to develop your spiritual growth by the content temperative lifestyle.
Think about the terms that she use, centering prayer. Don't
condemn yourself when your mind wanders off. So what do
you What would you say to the person that says, well,
(15:15):
that's too hard for me because I have a d D.
I just I can't focus. What would you say to
that person, Doctor Freddie.
Speaker 5 (15:22):
I would say to that person that this takes practice
for us. All while we know that we cannot earn
God's grace, we do put effort into certain things. Earning
an effort are two separate things. We put effort into it.
By praying, we put effort into it. By meditating, we
(15:42):
put effort into it. By retreating. We put effort into
these things, and thereby we become closer and closer to God,
and the transformation process occurs and we become more and
more like Him, because this is our end goal. The
Word says we were created in the image and likeness
of God, and we want to return to that. Sin
(16:05):
has come in and distorted our image, has distorted our likeness.
But what we're trying to return to is Christ's likeness.
This is why the desert mothers and fathers went away.
They wanted to be in what they call union with God.
They wanted to be like God. They wanted that transformation
(16:25):
to occur. And seeing this is something that happens by
the grace of God, when we put that effort into.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
It, I love it.
Speaker 5 (16:35):
I was.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
You know, the suicide rate is increasing, especially among young
black men, young black boys, and that's concerning and we
often know I do believe, whether it's a popular thought
or something popular for me to say right now, I
do believe that there is systemic racism. You believe that
(17:01):
our black boys and men deal with things. Pastor Philip
Anthony Michael was just explaining how some said, I don't
know if you saw about that. It's something that happened
him with a police officer when there were no cameras
and all of that thing. And so let's encourage them boys, girls,
It doesn't matter adults to have to develop this contemplative lifestyle,
(17:25):
this Christian contemplative lifestyle, to be still and to know
that He is God, and God is love. God is Love.
She started out by saying, we can love more like him,
be more like him. We were created in his image
and after his likeness. And so doctor freddie a couple
more questions too. I want to ask you, do you
(17:50):
take us through the exercise if you will, couldn't you
do that of a contemplation?
Speaker 5 (17:57):
Well, the exercise of contemplation involves these spiritual practices as
we're talking about. It involves studying, it involves reading, It
involves silent and enter prayer. It involves doing what we
call something called lectio. Divina, which is a Latin word
(18:17):
which means sacred reading, which is a type of meditation.
It involves immersing ourselves in these practices. So being like
Christ becomes not a checklist, not I did this, I
did that, I did the other. We're actually more transformed
and these things become a part of who we are
and we become more christ Like. This is why we're
(18:40):
able to love better. This is why we're able to
have a spirit control temperament. This is why we're able
to just be more like Christ, to represent him more
so in the world because we become more like Him.
But I cannot emphasize enough we do have to engage
in the practice. This is we do have to engage.
(19:02):
We have to take the time, we have to put
the effort into it so that these practices will become
a part of us. We have to work it out,
work out our soul salvation with Ben Trampling. We have
to put the work into it. And this is why
I would encourage anyone, especially someone say as you were
speaking of, with anxiety or someone with mental health issues,
(19:26):
to endeavor to push just like any like the rest
of us, Like anyone you know, has to push to
endeavor to practice these spiritual practices so that they will
do the transformation work in us. I cannot emphasize enough.
This is not a spectator sport. Come on, It's not
(19:46):
something you can sit to the side and say, okay, God,
hit me, I want to be changed. Being changed, being
transformed requires some effort on our part and contemplation, looking
towards the interior, looking for the change of the heart,
change of the mind, change of the foul. This is
(20:07):
where this occurs.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
So you mentioned sacred reading. It's very interesting how two
three now friends of mine who are pastors have stated
and they don't know each other, neither one of them
knows each other. Have emphasized the biblical illiteracy of believers.
(20:36):
And so if we want to continue to be transformed, y'all,
we must read the scriptures. You cannot be renewed in
your mind. We cannot be transformed without reading the scriptures.
You can go to church seven days a week all
your life and never be transformed. Isn't that correct?
Speaker 5 (20:56):
Absolutely? Absolutely?
Speaker 4 (21:01):
So let me ask you this. So I remember taking
Psalm twenty three, and I thought about the first life,
the Lord is my shepherd. I didn't even get the
eyes shall not want. And I started thinking about that.
I'm like, the Lord is my shepherd, And i started thinking,
how humble and magnificent can it be that the Lord
(21:22):
himself allows me to possess him as my shepherd? Would
you consider that like a good start to contemplation.
Speaker 5 (21:31):
Absolutely, that is a good place to start. I'll say
with lectio debana, to take just that portion of the
scripture the Lord is My Shepherd, and to read it
slowly again and again, to think about certain words that
might jump out at you, to pray about those words,
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to sit in silence before God, still focusing on those words,
seeking to find out what is God saying too me
through this passage of scripture. Let's tell Divina this type
of meditation, you're not necessarily going back. You're not looking
for Exe Jesus, You're not necessarily looking for what God
(22:13):
was saying originally in the scripture. But you're looking for
what is God saying to me? How does this influence me?
How does this affect my life? What is this saying
to me in my present situation and what I'm going
through and what I'm dealing with? What is God saying
to me through this?
Speaker 4 (22:34):
So I'm gonna put that in.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
Just put it.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
Let the old Divinia in case somebody wants to look
it up. Right, We're not trying to be too deep here,
We're really not. We're just trying to give you. We're
just trying to give you a basis of why it's
important to develop this contemplative lifestyle as a believer of
(22:56):
the Lord Jesus Christ. Everybody struggles with something. I know
why I do. I struggle with certain things. And you
said something very very key about how it makes us
respond more in our emotions like the Holy Spirit. Right it,
and it develops the formation, and you become we become
(23:16):
more and more formed like Christ and in his image,
and to love and to respond and to talk and
and to not judge people. But to understand that we
were all made right. God he said he pities us
because he knows we were made but from dust right.
And so I love that you're helping us walk along
(23:37):
this thing to develop this Christian lifestyle of contemplation. A
couple more questions I want to just ask you, is
do you believe a contemporative lifestyle is for leaders only
in the body of Christ?
Speaker 5 (23:55):
Absolutely not, Doctor Chan surely the contemplative life style, the
Christian contemporative lifestyle, would help them to become more godly leaders.
But this is for all believers. This is for anyone
who believes that we should be transformed into the image
of Christ. This is for anyone who wants to see
(24:17):
that happened in their lives. This is for every believer
who really understands that being like Christ is our goal.
We are to move closer and closer to Christ's likeness
in this life until such time as we see him
face to face once again. I go back to the
(24:37):
Desert mothers and fathers when they talked about union with God.
That frightens some people. That word union, they say, is
that something mystic or whatever. Don't be afraid of that.
The only thing they were saying is that we're seeking
to be like the Father, like Jesus ought to be
like the Father. Christ was able to say, when you
(24:58):
see me, you've seen him. Yes, when you see me,
you've seen the Father.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (25:05):
Of the best and great amounts of time that he's
spend in prayer, in communion with the Father, always seeking
the will of the Father, the will of the Father,
the will of the Father, not my will that will
be done. And this is what we need to seek
to do, is to do the will of the Father,
but not begrudgingly or not. As you know, well, I
(25:25):
gotta do what he says. Do We do it because
we are becoming more and more like him, right.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
Not rule following, and you know, not rule following, not
the checklist that you're talked about, but because we want
to Two things I want to say about this is
think about this word contemplating, contemplation. This is the whole thing.
When we think differently, our lives change, change your thinking,
change your life. Right. So what doctor Freddie is saying
(25:56):
is is we think, think about the things of Christ,
take on these things, and our lives will automatically change.
Good example is a person who wants to learn how
to manage their money better. They have to learn how
to think about money differently. They contemplate about it. That's
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what this contemplative lifestyle is. It is about our thinking.
It is about our mind. It is the one thing,
the one part of our soul that the devil is
after the most is our mind, because the mind is
the master power of our soul. Right, and that is
about the union I've heard people say, maybe not this way,
(26:39):
but people are afraid to get in the presence of
God because we know how filthy we are, and it
makes us not reverence him but fear him like in terror.
And I also heard a minister of the gospel say,
not too long ago, the only person we need to
be intimidated by is God. That's not true. God, when
(27:04):
he's not here to intimidate us, say something about that.
Doc Please.
Speaker 5 (27:09):
Our God is such a gracious, loving father who is
inviting us, who is calling us into his presence, not
to intimidate us, not to run us away, not to
make us fearful. Yes, we must reverence him, but he's
inviting us. He wants to spend time with us. He
(27:29):
loves us just that must. He wants us to know
him intimately. He wants us to have that type of
relationship with him. Our loving Father would not dare chase
us away. When we make one step towards God, he
makes ten towards us because he wants us to have
(27:50):
that kind of relationship where we are so close. The
Bible talks about asking seeking knocking. He said, behold, I
stand at the door and knock. It may open the door.
You know, I'll come in and you know, and outset
with him and he'll sup with me. Well, he wants
us to do this. God is not trying to run
us away. He's inviting us lovingly, lovely, kindly. He's inviting
(28:18):
us to have this kind of relationship. He wants us
to be changed from the interior to the outside. You know,
doctor change, you said something a few minutes ago. The
world caused this thing. Cognitive behavioral therapyret you change how
you think, then you change how you act, then you
change how you feel, you change how you leave. H
Paul talked about that when he said being not component
(28:41):
of this where but do you transformed by the renewing
of your mind? He was talking about behavioral way before
cognitive behavioral was cognitive behavioral Before happens, something happens. So
when we flood our minds and our inner beings with God,
we need not fear him. We need not fear being
(29:04):
shown a depravity as compared to the holiness of God.
God would say it for us to be holy. He
calls us to be holy, So he calls us to
do this. Then it's possible God would not call us
to do something that is not possible with him.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
I found that most people are fear the word holy.
I found and this is the whole thing about the
biblical illiteracy of believers, that we are afraid to say,
I live holy. We're afraid to say I'm a saintan
not a sinner. A lot of believers call themselves sinners.
The Bible calls us saints, and we have this thing
(29:41):
in our mind that a saint is someone who's perfect dots,
every eye crosses, every tea doesn't exceed the speed limit.
That's not biblical, that's not biblical, that's not sound doctrine.
And so that's why it's important to get in the
world and to contemplate and let the Holy Spirit teach
us and show us and lovingly show us what the
(30:02):
word is meaning and what he's saying to us. So,
before we bring Audrey back on to share what she's
getting from our conversation, doctor Frennie, what are the benefits
of including contemplation in our everyday lives.
Speaker 5 (30:20):
It is spiritual growth, it is transformation. It is a
life of loving God. It is a life of loving others.
It is a life of influence in our community for God.
It is all of these things, all of these great
and wonderful things that God has for us, all rolled
(30:43):
into one when we decide to enter into this type
of relationship. When we decide, God, I want to be
with you. I want to spend time with you. God,
I want to know you better. God, I want all
of these things because you have them readily available for me.
If I were just in to end, if I will
(31:03):
seek to take care of my interior, just want to
take care of my exterior, God says, I'll do the
mighty work inside of you. That I'll do the work,
if we would just desire that and show I desire
by the actions that we take by saying, God, I'm
going to spend this time with you. God, I'm not
(31:25):
going to condemn myself when I neglect to do this,
but I'm going to return and come back. God, I'm
not going to condemn myself. Why would we condemn ourselves,
God saying him, that's no condemnation. Why would why would
we pick that up? When we decide that, God, I
am going to release myself to you, into your care.
(31:46):
I want to walk with you. I want to know
that I am with my Heaven, the Father every waking
moment that I have. I want to know. I want
to be still and know that he is going. Oh God,
that he is God.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
Joyce Smith said, God has open arms for us, always
forgiving us. Somebody needs to know that God's arms are
open for us, and He's always forgiving us because he
knows that we have flaws. Audrey, come back on if
you will and let us know what popped into your mind.
(32:24):
Is we had this conversation about the contemplative lifestyle.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
I think that the most important thing that I got
today was don't condemn yourself. We are so hard on ourselves.
We are so we beat ourselves up more than anybody
can beat us up. And when I say we am
talking about me like we are our worst critics, we
are our harshest critics. And we you know, I think
(32:53):
for a lot of us, we try to do everything ourselves.
We want to lean on ourselves for everything instead of
on God.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
And then we beat.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Ourselves up because things don't go the way we think
they should go because.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
We want to lean on our own understanding.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
So and I'm guilty, I raise my hand like I'm
just you know, and sometimes you know, you feel like
you've been a perfectionist and I could do it all everything.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Yeah, and you're not. And then then you find yourself
flat down on your face trying to figure it all out.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
So that was a.
Speaker 5 (33:23):
For me.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
That was a bit for me. I love it. I
love it. You have any questions for Doctor Freddy? You know,
Doctor Freddy.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
We have a lot going on right now, and I
think that people are people are opening it up, they're
waking up, and they're looking for guidance. They are it's
so much, there's so much stuff happening right now, and
it's almost like they don't know where to turn. They
don't know who to believe. They don't even know if
(33:55):
they believe what they see right now, because we don't
know what's true anymore, right So you can get there's
some guidance on what we should be paying attention to,
because there anybody who knows me.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
No, I'm gonna take person like.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
But the deceit that I see coming with tech, because
it is so powerful, there's gonna be a lot of
deception going on a lot, and it's.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
Scary when people don't know what to do.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
So what are you?
Speaker 3 (34:19):
What do you tell those people?
Speaker 5 (34:21):
I hear so many people Audrey saying they want peace,
that they need inner peace, that they are just an
inner turmoil, that there's so much going on within them.
And this is a way through contemplation to learn how
to stop striving, stop struggling, stop pulling and pushing, stop
(34:45):
all of these things, to learn what it means to
be still and allow God to handle those things that
he promised that he would take care of if we
would just be able to step to the side and
allow him. And the way we allow him in is
we get to know him. We read his word, we
(35:06):
pray to him, we talk to him. We learn what
it means to just sit and enjoy his presence. We
do things like we use the Gospels and scripture, and
we insert ourselves in scriptures just to imagine what it
was like to walk in the days of Christ, to
walk and be with him. In other words, you can't
(35:26):
do this thing from far far away. If you want
this peace, want this's changed from the inside out, you
must spend time with the Father. You must do like
Jesus did and spend time with the Father.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Now you said something that's you said something that's a
little tough for entrepreneurs. You said stop striving. So for
the ones that are super ambitious, the ones who got
major audacious goals and their waking moment is striving and
being ambitious about what they're trying to accomplish, how do
they stop striving?
Speaker 4 (36:03):
Like?
Speaker 3 (36:03):
How do they? And I'm speaking, I'm raising my hand again,
how does that? How do you make that happen?
Speaker 5 (36:10):
I'm not saying stop working, do your work, do what
you have to do, but you must set aside time.
No matter how great this entrepreneurial spirit, no matter how
much you want to achieve, you have to set aside
time for God. God says, it's me that gives you
(36:31):
the power to obtained. Well, you must spend time with
the one who gives all things. You must spend time
with the one who says, seek you first the Kingdom
of God and his righteousness, and all other things will
be added unto you. It's good to have goals. I
believe God gives us these goals. He gives us these
(36:52):
things in our minds, but we have to know how
to pursue them, and we have to know how to
involve Him and that him lead the process.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
I love that part, I know, and it's so cool
because I'm I'm I had to learn that, doctor James.
I had to learn how to do that because I
would wake up as soon as I hit the floor.
I'm in business mode. I'm in That's how I That's
how I'm wired. But I had to like stop and
take that first. You know, half an hour in the morning,
(37:24):
that's God's time. And I had to learn that. That
was a learned habit because I'll wake up in business
mode and so I had to and my daughter, and
my daughter is so wise for her age, right, She's
the one that kind of taught me to be honest. Hey,
she said to me, I go outside in the morning
and I put my feet on the ground.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
I thank God.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
And I was like, do you really And She's like,
I really do. I did not know she did that,
and I was like wow, So she had. She got
me into the habit of doing that because I'm so
busy in my mind all the time. I lay down busy,
I wake up busy. And I had to stop doing that.
So thank you for sharing that, because I know that
there's gonna be some people watching this show and they're
gonna say, wait a minute, now, I can't stop striving
(38:03):
because I got goals, So thank you for sharing it
and giving people the wisdom on how to make it
happen while they spend some time with God at the
same time.
Speaker 5 (38:13):
I challenge the listeners to do this, to start contemplating,
to make time for God and watch how everything changes.
Speaker 4 (38:23):
I challenge it wonderful challenge. Cynthia Harper says, we stop
striving by committing it to God and taking his lead.
There is a scripture in song and I pray it
all the time. I'm so mad at myself because I
can't remember one it is, but it says this, if
you commit your works to the Lord, he will establish
(38:45):
your thoughts. So the first thing we to do is
to commit the work. And it doesn't matter what it is.
And you have so much work, Aludery. You help people.
You're very community active in your community. You help peopleeople
in business, you help people in finance. I mean, you've
helped me grow to a degree that it's inexplicable and
(39:07):
so but the one thing is doctor Freddie, just to
reiterate what she's saying, and Cynthia Harper is the first
thing in the morning, God, I commit my works to you,
Please establish my thoughts. Yes, yes, yes, so doctor Freddie,
(39:27):
I would like to give you. I want to thank
you again for coming on. You don't know how more welcome, wonderful.
I just love you, and we'd like to give you
the last word before Audrey will close us out this afternoon.
Speaker 5 (39:41):
If you don't mind, I don't mind at all. Again,
I want to reiterate I guess my challenge to everyone
to learn how to spend time with God, learn how
to be quiet before God. When you incorporate these things
into your life, you won't want to go a day
(40:03):
without doing them because you will feel that you have
missed something. You will feel that there's something lacking. Once
you invite God in and this process begins to change you,
to change you, to transform you, you will enjoy more
and more. The more time you spend with God, the
more time you will want to spend with God. The
more you find yourself reading his word and knowing his word,
(40:26):
the more you will want to know about His word
because you will want to live it. So I just
challenge everyone to try what was that all saying try
it you like it?
Speaker 3 (40:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (40:37):
Every one?
Speaker 5 (40:37):
By saying try it, you'll like it?
Speaker 4 (40:41):
An amen? Beautiful beautiful. Thank you so much. I love it.
Thank you Audrey take us out on the beautiful way
that you always do. And we want to thank doctor Freddy. Hollylujah,
thank you doctor Freddy.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Listen if you got If you guys enjoyed this episode.
We always have great episodes. Doctor Chen bring the most
amazing people on her show to empower and enlighten us
to do the things we know we should be doing,
or to understand and find out about the things we
didn't know we could do. So thank you Doctor Frederick
for just sharing all of your wisdom, all of the
knowledge that you've shared us today. And Doctor Chen, thank
(41:17):
you for bringing your friends and your community to us
and sharing them with us. Because you don't have to
do that, but we appreciate you for doing that.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Listen.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
If you miss any episodes of the show, be sure
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People need this message. People need to hear from hear
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(41:47):
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(42:08):
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Speaker 3 (42:17):
Same place, same time.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
So until next time, my friends, Until next time, make
it a great day.
Speaker 4 (42:23):
Bye everybody. By Doctor Freddy.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
You've been listening to Keeping It Real with Doctor Linda Chin.
If you enjoyed this episode, hit the like part and
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until next time, keep the faith and keep it real.
Welcome to Keeping It Real with Doctor Linda Chen. This
is the podcast where real life choices need biblical truth
without the plot. Tune in and I read second and
fourth Monday at GWPM in Eastern Standard Time as doctor
Chen shares faith filled, practical insights to navigate everyday challenges.
(00:21):
Get ready for real talk, real life and real answers.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Good afternoon, Good afternoon, Good afternoon. Welcome to another episode
of Keeping It Real with Doctor Linda Chen. I'm Auderbel Currenty,
producer of the show, and pretty soon I'll be bringing
up doctor Chen and her press, her guests, her guests,
missus Brady James, and today we're going to talk about
something and I'm sure a lot of people are kind
(00:46):
of going through right now, like have you just been
going through it by contemplating life over the last four
months because of all of the stuff that's going on.
Have you just been thinking about what what's happening right now?
What's happening with my life? I'm confused, I feel disconnected.
Are you been have you been thinking about all of that?
When this conversation today is gonna help you kind of
work through some of what that is and how you
(01:08):
can move forward in a more peaceful way because I
know it's a lot happening in our world today, a lot,
a lot. So Doctor Tenn and her guests is gonna
come on and they're gonna talk you about you know,
what is that you're contemplating? What is that got you
confused and you know, kind of dazed and trying to
figure it out because it's a lot. And I get
it because hey, listen, I myself go through a lot
(01:28):
on a daily basis with just life, and so I
know that this episode is gonna bless you, So be
sure to subscribe to the show so you never miss
an episode.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Share this episode right now.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
It's live with someone who may be going through something
something and they need to hit his message. My brother,
my brother put out a message on Facebook this morning.
A kid that he was about to go pro in
the NFL. He had an accident and he committed suicide,
you know, and it was it was so quietly kept
that he was keeping all these things inside, and so
(02:00):
because of what he was contemplating, he contemplated suicide and
he succeeded. We don't know what people contemplating, but today
I hope that this message bless you and it blesses
somebody and share with two people, at least two people.
It's live right now. So Doc furnther dial. I'm gonna
bring up doctor Linda Chen and missus Freddy James. Good afternoon, ladies,
(02:23):
good afternoon, Good afternoon.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
And Audrey, thank you, thank you so much. And I'm
glad you brought that up about the contemplation or the
gentleman who committed suicide and what we think about. And
you know, these are things that we can really be
in tune to. And so I thank doctor Freddie James
for coming on, because she's gonna hit it from both sides,
(02:46):
from the spiritual side and the practical side, even for
those who are not perhaps believers in the Lord Jesus,
no matter what our background is, the contemplative lifestyle, even
of a leader, is essential. Now we know this is
a faith based show. And one thing I do know
is that sometimes I've heard that believers practice yoga and
(03:09):
do meditation and all of this stuff where she's coming
from is going to be I believe this approach is
going to be new to some people's ears. And I
think it's so vital in this particular time because people
are all over the place in their thinking. And you
know what I'm saying, and just a little bit excuse
me about her is wonderful, wonderful woman of God. I
(03:31):
love her, lover, lover. She's a native of Atlanta. She's
a minister of the Gospel. She is she's accepted her
call into ministry in nineteen ninety nine. She is a
professional counselor. Concentration is spirituality and counseling. And her one
of the things I love too about her is because
(03:52):
of her interest in health matters. So she's interested in
health matters, physical health as well as mental health. She
volunteers with several health education and research awareness organizations. And
then so she's not just a heavy person everybody. She's
not just the minister of the gospel. She is a
real live person who loves gardening and reading and watching
(04:15):
crime genres and documentaries. So, without further ado, I want
to introduce my wonderful friend, doctor Freddie James. How are you.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
What I am doing well? How are you? Doctor chan?
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Good?
Speaker 5 (04:29):
Good, good good great? Great to hear, great to hear.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
So some of these things the contemplative lifestyle, just the
word contemplative, A contemplation is new to some people, even
seasoned believers. So one of the questions I asked in
marketing the podcast was, do you want to know what
a contemplative lifestyle is? Like, well, they're doing the show,
(04:56):
what is the contemplative lifestyle? What is this thing?
Speaker 5 (04:59):
Well, as you know, to contemplate means to think about,
to turn something over very deeply, and to examine it
from different sides. But when I speak of the contemplative,
generally speaking, I am speaking of the Christian contemplative lifestyle
because this is all centered around Christ, and the Christian
(05:21):
contemplative lifestyle focuses on deepening one's relationship with God through
practices like silent and a prayer, meditation, and you're aiming
for a spiritual union and transformation into Christ's likeness. It
involves being still and allowing God to reveal his will
(05:42):
and cultivating a life of love, love for others, love
for God, and a life of service.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
So I love this, and I also believe it's important
that we bring this into the Christian lifestyles because many
Christians don't know about the contemplative lifestyle. We know that
many other religions do believe on meditation. We know this right,
transcendental meditation and those things for instance. So that's why
(06:12):
I wanted to bring you on. And what is its origin?
What is a contemplative origin?
Speaker 5 (06:20):
I'm glad you asked that the origin of Christian contemplation
can be traced back to the life of Jesus himself,
who invested great amounts of time into prayer and solitude
with the Father. As we know when we examine the
life of Christ, it's clear that communion with his Father
with the utmost important to Christ. We can also go
(06:44):
back to early monastic traditions like those of the desert
mothers and fathers around the third and fourth century, who
went out and lived in ascetic type communities. They gave
up their worldly possessions, they gave up their worldly goods,
and they lived very simply, and they committed themselves to
(07:05):
lives of prayer and solitude and fasting just to be
close to the Father. Yes, these were figures like The
Christian contemplative was also influenced by figures like Saint Teresa
of Avalue and Saint John of the Cross, who wrote
Dark Knight of the Soul back in the sixteenth century.
(07:26):
Both of them were the Kamalite Carmelite order. And in
the nineteen seventies there was a gentleman you may have
heard of called Thomas Keating who sought to introduce to
reintroduce us to the contemplative Christian tradition with something called
centering prayer. Now, modern day teachers and theologians that had
(07:47):
practiced and taught about the Christian contemplative tradition include people
that come from a variety of Christian traditions. These include
people like Richard Rule, the author and priest, Richard Role,
Cynthia Borjeaux, Howard Thurman, Richet Foster, and I can't leave
out my dear dear friend, my professor Gary Moue.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
I love it. I love it. So when she talks
about the monastic lifestyle, she's talking about the monasteries and
the monks. It's the lifestyle likened to that of a monk.
And this is important people who are believers, and why
I really wanted to bring her on because we don't
we know the Word tells us to meditate on the
(08:29):
Word day and night. It tells us that Scripture tells
us even in New Testament, that Mary pondered. Mary was
a ponderer. She sat and she thought, and she contemplated things.
And as a believer, it is important that we developed
this lifestyle around some forty six to ten. We know
(08:50):
what that says, right, be still in no so, let's
let doctor Freddie just help us through something so that
you can develop your own spiritual formation. Most believes have
heard of, you know, spiritual disciplines like prayer, worship, journaling, retreating.
Doctor Freddie, why do you think the Church does not
talk about the discipline of Christian contemplation.
Speaker 5 (09:14):
I'm glad you asked that question, doctor Chan. The Church
doesn't always emphasize contemplation, partly because it's not explicitly defined
in the Bible and can be seen as a practice
that relies on the subjective experience rather than objective revelation.
Some Christians also see it as potentially associated with practices
(09:37):
from other spiritual traditions, sort of causing a disconnect with
what we call traditional Christian teachings. For example, while contemplation
has its roots in the Bible, specific methods like centering
prayer often passed down by tradition from one person to
the other instead of being explicitly talked about. It scripture.
(10:01):
Another example is some argue that contemporary prayer relies too
heavily on the personal experience, which can be seen once
again as subjective rather than the objective revelation of the Bible.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
All right, so what is I know what? But for
our listening audience, what is centering prayer?
Speaker 5 (10:25):
Centering prayer is simply prayer where we focus on a
sacred thought, or a passage of scripture, or even a word. Say,
the word might be grace, and we might focus on
that word and we just allow ourselves to be bathed
in soap with the grace of the Father as we
(10:46):
meditate on that word. But as humans, we find that
our minds drift. Our minds is the way we'll hear
the washing machine, we'll hear cars going up and down
the street. But the idea is to bring ourselves back
to the sacred thought without beating up on ourselves, without
condemning ourselves for allowing our minds to drift. These minds
(11:07):
were given to us by God. He knows them better
than anyone else, and he's not holding that against us,
that our thoughts drift. The idea is in centering prayer
is to come back to that sacred thought, come back
to that sacred word, come back to that passage of scripture,
and continue to medicate. Meditation and being okay with the
(11:28):
drift of the mind and coming back. It's a win
win situation. It's a win win.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
And I love the fact that you pointed out in
different ways that if when it's not if your mind's
gonna wander, it's when it's your mind and my mind
wanders off. That we don't need to condemn ourselves. And
I think that this thing about the contemplative lifestyle to meditate,
that to have centering prayer would help us when we're
(11:54):
feeling depressed to the point where we consider suicide. It
helps us to bring us back to the point and
centered in Christ where we won't contemplate divorce as much
as we contemplate, for instance, mercy or if we contemplate,
as you stated, grace or forgiveness or oneness. And so
(12:15):
it's important. She also points out talk about the point
of the part about the contemplative lifestyle as it relates
to spiritual growth and formation.
Speaker 5 (12:29):
Okay, when we we focus on the contemplative lifestyle, would
you say that again?
Speaker 4 (12:38):
Please?
Speaker 5 (12:38):
I'm sorry, doctor Chan, repeat your question.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
Yeah, so, let me put it this way. Why is
the contemplative lifestyle essential to a believer's spiritual growth and
their formation?
Speaker 5 (12:51):
Okay, okay, thank you for repeating that. It's because it
causes us to focus our mind on the object of
our greater affection, which is Christ. It causes us to
walk in an awareness in our daily lives of Christ.
We keep our minds focused on Him. We keep our
mind focused on the love of God. We keep our
(13:13):
mind focused on the wonderful things that He does with
us for us. We learn how to not always have
to talk to Him in words. We learn how to
be in His presence and just soak up the presence
of God. We learn to walk in an awareness of
the constant presence of God all the time. Sometimes we
(13:35):
do things like we go on retreats whereas silent and quiet,
where we're able to just soak in the presence of God.
But the object is to bring that back into the
real world, and to be able to do that even
when we're in a crowd of people, even when circumstances
are not going in our favor, even when things are
not just like we would have them be. We understand
(13:56):
that God is our constant companion. We have the right
as children of God to call on him at any time.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
And for those I would say to who have never
confessed Jesus, I'm going to share this that the Bible
simply states in Romans ten nine and ten that if
you confess that Jesus is Lord right and believe that
God raised him from the dead, you are saved. You
have a relationship where it'll afford you eternity with Christ Jesus.
(14:31):
That's not the end, that's just the beginning of the
spiritual growth and the formation. So for people who deal
with anxiety, I know many believers, doctor Freddie, who deal
with a severe anxiety, severe sadness, and depression. And people,
if you're listening or now or later, make it a
(14:54):
point to develop your spiritual growth by the content temperative lifestyle.
Think about the terms that she use, centering prayer. Don't
condemn yourself when your mind wanders off. So what do
you What would you say to the person that says, well,
(15:15):
that's too hard for me because I have a d D.
I just I can't focus. What would you say to
that person, Doctor Freddie.
Speaker 5 (15:22):
I would say to that person that this takes practice
for us. All while we know that we cannot earn
God's grace, we do put effort into certain things. Earning
an effort are two separate things. We put effort into it.
By praying, we put effort into it. By meditating, we
(15:42):
put effort into it. By retreating. We put effort into
these things, and thereby we become closer and closer to God,
and the transformation process occurs and we become more and
more like Him, because this is our end goal. The
Word says we were created in the image and likeness
of God, and we want to return to that. Sin
(16:05):
has come in and distorted our image, has distorted our likeness.
But what we're trying to return to is Christ's likeness.
This is why the desert mothers and fathers went away.
They wanted to be in what they call union with God.
They wanted to be like God. They wanted that transformation
(16:25):
to occur. And seeing this is something that happens by
the grace of God, when we put that effort into.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
It, I love it.
Speaker 5 (16:35):
I was.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
You know, the suicide rate is increasing, especially among young
black men, young black boys, and that's concerning and we
often know I do believe, whether it's a popular thought
or something popular for me to say right now, I
do believe that there is systemic racism. You believe that
(17:01):
our black boys and men deal with things. Pastor Philip
Anthony Michael was just explaining how some said, I don't
know if you saw about that. It's something that happened
him with a police officer when there were no cameras
and all of that thing. And so let's encourage them boys, girls,
It doesn't matter adults to have to develop this contemplative lifestyle,
(17:25):
this Christian contemplative lifestyle, to be still and to know
that He is God, and God is love. God is Love.
She started out by saying, we can love more like him,
be more like him. We were created in his image
and after his likeness. And so doctor freddie a couple
more questions too. I want to ask you, do you
(17:50):
take us through the exercise if you will, couldn't you
do that of a contemplation?
Speaker 5 (17:57):
Well, the exercise of contemplation involves these spiritual practices as
we're talking about. It involves studying, it involves reading, It
involves silent and enter prayer. It involves doing what we
call something called lectio. Divina, which is a Latin word
(18:17):
which means sacred reading, which is a type of meditation.
It involves immersing ourselves in these practices. So being like
Christ becomes not a checklist, not I did this, I
did that, I did the other. We're actually more transformed
and these things become a part of who we are
and we become more christ Like. This is why we're
(18:40):
able to love better. This is why we're able to
have a spirit control temperament. This is why we're able
to just be more like Christ, to represent him more
so in the world because we become more like Him.
But I cannot emphasize enough we do have to engage
in the practice. This is we do have to engage.
(19:02):
We have to take the time, we have to put
the effort into it so that these practices will become
a part of us. We have to work it out,
work out our soul salvation with Ben Trampling. We have
to put the work into it. And this is why
I would encourage anyone, especially someone say as you were
speaking of, with anxiety or someone with mental health issues,
(19:26):
to endeavor to push just like any like the rest
of us, Like anyone you know, has to push to
endeavor to practice these spiritual practices so that they will
do the transformation work in us. I cannot emphasize enough.
This is not a spectator sport. Come on, It's not
(19:46):
something you can sit to the side and say, okay, God,
hit me, I want to be changed. Being changed, being
transformed requires some effort on our part and contemplation, looking
towards the interior, looking for the change of the heart,
change of the mind, change of the foul. This is
(20:07):
where this occurs.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
So you mentioned sacred reading. It's very interesting how two
three now friends of mine who are pastors have stated
and they don't know each other, neither one of them
knows each other. Have emphasized the biblical illiteracy of believers.
(20:36):
And so if we want to continue to be transformed, y'all,
we must read the scriptures. You cannot be renewed in
your mind. We cannot be transformed without reading the scriptures.
You can go to church seven days a week all
your life and never be transformed. Isn't that correct?
Speaker 5 (20:56):
Absolutely? Absolutely?
Speaker 4 (21:01):
So let me ask you this. So I remember taking
Psalm twenty three, and I thought about the first life,
the Lord is my shepherd. I didn't even get the
eyes shall not want. And I started thinking about that.
I'm like, the Lord is my shepherd, And i started thinking,
how humble and magnificent can it be that the Lord
(21:22):
himself allows me to possess him as my shepherd? Would
you consider that like a good start to contemplation.
Speaker 5 (21:31):
Absolutely, that is a good place to start. I'll say
with lectio debana, to take just that portion of the
scripture the Lord is My Shepherd, and to read it
slowly again and again, to think about certain words that
might jump out at you, to pray about those words,
(21:52):
to sit in silence before God, still focusing on those words,
seeking to find out what is God saying too me
through this passage of scripture. Let's tell Divina this type
of meditation, you're not necessarily going back. You're not looking
for Exe Jesus, You're not necessarily looking for what God
(22:13):
was saying originally in the scripture. But you're looking for
what is God saying to me? How does this influence me?
How does this affect my life? What is this saying
to me in my present situation and what I'm going
through and what I'm dealing with? What is God saying
to me through this?
Speaker 4 (22:34):
So I'm gonna put that in.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
Just put it.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
Let the old Divinia in case somebody wants to look
it up. Right, We're not trying to be too deep here,
We're really not. We're just trying to give you. We're
just trying to give you a basis of why it's
important to develop this contemplative lifestyle as a believer of
(22:56):
the Lord Jesus Christ. Everybody struggles with something. I know
why I do. I struggle with certain things. And you
said something very very key about how it makes us
respond more in our emotions like the Holy Spirit. Right it,
and it develops the formation, and you become we become
(23:16):
more and more formed like Christ and in his image,
and to love and to respond and to talk and
and to not judge people. But to understand that we
were all made right. God he said he pities us
because he knows we were made but from dust right.
And so I love that you're helping us walk along
(23:37):
this thing to develop this Christian lifestyle of contemplation. A
couple more questions I want to just ask you, is
do you believe a contemporative lifestyle is for leaders only
in the body of Christ?
Speaker 5 (23:55):
Absolutely not, Doctor Chan surely the contemplative life style, the
Christian contemporative lifestyle, would help them to become more godly leaders.
But this is for all believers. This is for anyone
who believes that we should be transformed into the image
of Christ. This is for anyone who wants to see
(24:17):
that happened in their lives. This is for every believer
who really understands that being like Christ is our goal.
We are to move closer and closer to Christ's likeness
in this life until such time as we see him
face to face once again. I go back to the
(24:37):
Desert mothers and fathers when they talked about union with God.
That frightens some people. That word union, they say, is
that something mystic or whatever. Don't be afraid of that.
The only thing they were saying is that we're seeking
to be like the Father, like Jesus ought to be
like the Father. Christ was able to say, when you
(24:58):
see me, you've seen him. Yes, when you see me,
you've seen the Father.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (25:05):
Of the best and great amounts of time that he's
spend in prayer, in communion with the Father, always seeking
the will of the Father, the will of the Father,
the will of the Father, not my will that will
be done. And this is what we need to seek
to do, is to do the will of the Father,
but not begrudgingly or not. As you know, well, I
(25:25):
gotta do what he says. Do We do it because
we are becoming more and more like him, right.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
Not rule following, and you know, not rule following, not
the checklist that you're talked about, but because we want
to Two things I want to say about this is
think about this word contemplating, contemplation. This is the whole thing.
When we think differently, our lives change, change your thinking,
change your life. Right. So what doctor Freddie is saying
(25:56):
is is we think, think about the things of Christ,
take on these things, and our lives will automatically change.
Good example is a person who wants to learn how
to manage their money better. They have to learn how
to think about money differently. They contemplate about it. That's
(26:16):
what this contemplative lifestyle is. It is about our thinking.
It is about our mind. It is the one thing,
the one part of our soul that the devil is
after the most is our mind, because the mind is
the master power of our soul. Right, and that is
about the union I've heard people say, maybe not this way,
(26:39):
but people are afraid to get in the presence of
God because we know how filthy we are, and it
makes us not reverence him but fear him like in terror.
And I also heard a minister of the gospel say,
not too long ago, the only person we need to
be intimidated by is God. That's not true. God, when
(27:04):
he's not here to intimidate us, say something about that.
Doc Please.
Speaker 5 (27:09):
Our God is such a gracious, loving father who is
inviting us, who is calling us into his presence, not
to intimidate us, not to run us away, not to
make us fearful. Yes, we must reverence him, but he's
inviting us. He wants to spend time with us. He
(27:29):
loves us just that must. He wants us to know
him intimately. He wants us to have that type of
relationship with him. Our loving Father would not dare chase
us away. When we make one step towards God, he
makes ten towards us because he wants us to have
(27:50):
that kind of relationship where we are so close. The
Bible talks about asking seeking knocking. He said, behold, I
stand at the door and knock. It may open the door.
You know, I'll come in and you know, and outset
with him and he'll sup with me. Well, he wants
us to do this. God is not trying to run
us away. He's inviting us lovingly, lovely, kindly. He's inviting
(28:18):
us to have this kind of relationship. He wants us
to be changed from the interior to the outside. You know,
doctor change, you said something a few minutes ago. The
world caused this thing. Cognitive behavioral therapyret you change how
you think, then you change how you act, then you
change how you feel, you change how you leave. H
Paul talked about that when he said being not component
(28:41):
of this where but do you transformed by the renewing
of your mind? He was talking about behavioral way before
cognitive behavioral was cognitive behavioral Before happens, something happens. So
when we flood our minds and our inner beings with God,
we need not fear him. We need not fear being
(29:04):
shown a depravity as compared to the holiness of God.
God would say it for us to be holy. He
calls us to be holy, So he calls us to
do this. Then it's possible God would not call us
to do something that is not possible with him.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
I found that most people are fear the word holy.
I found and this is the whole thing about the
biblical illiteracy of believers, that we are afraid to say,
I live holy. We're afraid to say I'm a saintan
not a sinner. A lot of believers call themselves sinners.
The Bible calls us saints, and we have this thing
(29:41):
in our mind that a saint is someone who's perfect dots,
every eye crosses, every tea doesn't exceed the speed limit.
That's not biblical, that's not biblical, that's not sound doctrine.
And so that's why it's important to get in the
world and to contemplate and let the Holy Spirit teach
us and show us and lovingly show us what the
(30:02):
word is meaning and what he's saying to us. So,
before we bring Audrey back on to share what she's
getting from our conversation, doctor Frennie, what are the benefits
of including contemplation in our everyday lives.
Speaker 5 (30:20):
It is spiritual growth, it is transformation. It is a
life of loving God. It is a life of loving others.
It is a life of influence in our community for God.
It is all of these things, all of these great
and wonderful things that God has for us, all rolled
(30:43):
into one when we decide to enter into this type
of relationship. When we decide, God, I want to be
with you. I want to spend time with you. God,
I want to know you better. God, I want all
of these things because you have them readily available for me.
If I were just in to end, if I will
(31:03):
seek to take care of my interior, just want to
take care of my exterior, God says, I'll do the
mighty work inside of you. That I'll do the work,
if we would just desire that and show I desire
by the actions that we take by saying, God, I'm
going to spend this time with you. God, I'm not
(31:25):
going to condemn myself when I neglect to do this,
but I'm going to return and come back. God, I'm
not going to condemn myself. Why would we condemn ourselves,
God saying him, that's no condemnation. Why would why would
we pick that up? When we decide that, God, I
am going to release myself to you, into your care.
(31:46):
I want to walk with you. I want to know
that I am with my Heaven, the Father every waking
moment that I have. I want to know. I want
to be still and know that he is going. Oh God,
that he is God.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
Joyce Smith said, God has open arms for us, always
forgiving us. Somebody needs to know that God's arms are
open for us, and He's always forgiving us because he
knows that we have flaws. Audrey, come back on if
you will and let us know what popped into your mind.
(32:24):
Is we had this conversation about the contemplative lifestyle.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
I think that the most important thing that I got
today was don't condemn yourself. We are so hard on ourselves.
We are so we beat ourselves up more than anybody
can beat us up. And when I say we am
talking about me like we are our worst critics, we
are our harshest critics. And we you know, I think
(32:53):
for a lot of us, we try to do everything ourselves.
We want to lean on ourselves for everything instead of
on God.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
And then we beat.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Ourselves up because things don't go the way we think
they should go because.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
We want to lean on our own understanding.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
So and I'm guilty, I raise my hand like I'm
just you know, and sometimes you know, you feel like
you've been a perfectionist and I could do it all everything.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Yeah, and you're not. And then then you find yourself
flat down on your face trying to figure it all out.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
So that was a.
Speaker 5 (33:23):
For me.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
That was a bit for me. I love it. I
love it. You have any questions for Doctor Freddy? You know,
Doctor Freddy.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
We have a lot going on right now, and I
think that people are people are opening it up, they're
waking up, and they're looking for guidance. They are it's
so much, there's so much stuff happening right now, and
it's almost like they don't know where to turn. They
don't know who to believe. They don't even know if
(33:55):
they believe what they see right now, because we don't
know what's true anymore, right So you can get there's
some guidance on what we should be paying attention to,
because there anybody who knows me.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
No, I'm gonna take person like.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
But the deceit that I see coming with tech, because
it is so powerful, there's gonna be a lot of
deception going on a lot, and it's.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
Scary when people don't know what to do.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
So what are you?
Speaker 3 (34:19):
What do you tell those people?
Speaker 5 (34:21):
I hear so many people Audrey saying they want peace,
that they need inner peace, that they are just an
inner turmoil, that there's so much going on within them.
And this is a way through contemplation to learn how
to stop striving, stop struggling, stop pulling and pushing, stop
(34:45):
all of these things, to learn what it means to
be still and allow God to handle those things that
he promised that he would take care of if we
would just be able to step to the side and
allow him. And the way we allow him in is
we get to know him. We read his word, we
(35:06):
pray to him, we talk to him. We learn what
it means to just sit and enjoy his presence. We
do things like we use the Gospels and scripture, and
we insert ourselves in scriptures just to imagine what it
was like to walk in the days of Christ, to
walk and be with him. In other words, you can't
(35:26):
do this thing from far far away. If you want
this peace, want this's changed from the inside out, you
must spend time with the Father. You must do like
Jesus did and spend time with the Father.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Now you said something that's you said something that's a
little tough for entrepreneurs. You said stop striving. So for
the ones that are super ambitious, the ones who got
major audacious goals and their waking moment is striving and
being ambitious about what they're trying to accomplish, how do
they stop striving?
Speaker 4 (36:03):
Like?
Speaker 3 (36:03):
How do they? And I'm speaking, I'm raising my hand again,
how does that? How do you make that happen?
Speaker 5 (36:10):
I'm not saying stop working, do your work, do what
you have to do, but you must set aside time.
No matter how great this entrepreneurial spirit, no matter how
much you want to achieve, you have to set aside
time for God. God says, it's me that gives you
(36:31):
the power to obtained. Well, you must spend time with
the one who gives all things. You must spend time
with the one who says, seek you first the Kingdom
of God and his righteousness, and all other things will
be added unto you. It's good to have goals. I
believe God gives us these goals. He gives us these
(36:52):
things in our minds, but we have to know how
to pursue them, and we have to know how to
involve Him and that him lead the process.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
I love that part, I know, and it's so cool
because I'm I'm I had to learn that, doctor James.
I had to learn how to do that because I
would wake up as soon as I hit the floor.
I'm in business mode. I'm in That's how I That's
how I'm wired. But I had to like stop and
take that first. You know, half an hour in the morning,
(37:24):
that's God's time. And I had to learn that. That
was a learned habit because I'll wake up in business
mode and so I had to and my daughter, and
my daughter is so wise for her age, right, She's
the one that kind of taught me to be honest. Hey,
she said to me, I go outside in the morning
and I put my feet on the ground.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
I thank God.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
And I was like, do you really And She's like,
I really do. I did not know she did that,
and I was like wow, So she had. She got
me into the habit of doing that because I'm so
busy in my mind all the time. I lay down busy,
I wake up busy. And I had to stop doing that.
So thank you for sharing that, because I know that
there's gonna be some people watching this show and they're
gonna say, wait a minute, now, I can't stop striving
(38:03):
because I got goals, So thank you for sharing it
and giving people the wisdom on how to make it
happen while they spend some time with God at the
same time.
Speaker 5 (38:13):
I challenge the listeners to do this, to start contemplating,
to make time for God and watch how everything changes.
Speaker 4 (38:23):
I challenge it wonderful challenge. Cynthia Harper says, we stop
striving by committing it to God and taking his lead.
There is a scripture in song and I pray it
all the time. I'm so mad at myself because I
can't remember one it is, but it says this, if
you commit your works to the Lord, he will establish
(38:45):
your thoughts. So the first thing we to do is
to commit the work. And it doesn't matter what it is.
And you have so much work, Aludery. You help people.
You're very community active in your community. You help peopleeople
in business, you help people in finance. I mean, you've
helped me grow to a degree that it's inexplicable and
(39:07):
so but the one thing is doctor Freddie, just to
reiterate what she's saying, and Cynthia Harper is the first
thing in the morning, God, I commit my works to you,
Please establish my thoughts. Yes, yes, yes, so doctor Freddie,
(39:27):
I would like to give you. I want to thank
you again for coming on. You don't know how more welcome, wonderful.
I just love you, and we'd like to give you
the last word before Audrey will close us out this afternoon.
Speaker 5 (39:41):
If you don't mind, I don't mind at all. Again,
I want to reiterate I guess my challenge to everyone
to learn how to spend time with God, learn how
to be quiet before God. When you incorporate these things
into your life, you won't want to go a day
(40:03):
without doing them because you will feel that you have
missed something. You will feel that there's something lacking. Once
you invite God in and this process begins to change you,
to change you, to transform you, you will enjoy more
and more. The more time you spend with God, the
more time you will want to spend with God. The
more you find yourself reading his word and knowing his word,
(40:26):
the more you will want to know about His word
because you will want to live it. So I just
challenge everyone to try what was that all saying try
it you like it?
Speaker 3 (40:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (40:37):
Every one?
Speaker 5 (40:37):
By saying try it, you'll like it?
Speaker 4 (40:41):
An amen? Beautiful beautiful. Thank you so much. I love it.
Thank you Audrey take us out on the beautiful way
that you always do. And we want to thank doctor Freddy. Hollylujah,
thank you doctor Freddy.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Listen if you got If you guys enjoyed this episode.
We always have great episodes. Doctor Chen bring the most
amazing people on her show to empower and enlighten us
to do the things we know we should be doing,
or to understand and find out about the things we
didn't know we could do. So thank you Doctor Frederick
for just sharing all of your wisdom, all of the
knowledge that you've shared us today. And Doctor Chen, thank
(41:17):
you for bringing your friends and your community to us
and sharing them with us. Because you don't have to
do that, but we appreciate you for doing that.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Listen.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
If you miss any episodes of the show, be sure
to go to Lindatinministries dot come and listen to past
episodes there and listen, share with two friends. It is
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People need this message. People need to hear from hear
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need to hear this message. They need to be empowered,
(41:47):
they need to being. Like a lot going on, y'all,
there's a lot going on, and sometimes we just need
to hear words. Someone saying in the chat, I needed
to hear us today. See there touching lives, making a
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(42:08):
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Speaker 3 (42:17):
Same place, same time.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
So until next time, my friends, Until next time, make
it a great day.
Speaker 4 (42:23):
Bye everybody. By Doctor Freddy.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
You've been listening to Keeping It Real with Doctor Linda Chin.
If you enjoyed this episode, hit the like part and
then share it with a friend. Be sure to support
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until next time, keep the faith and keep it real.
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