February 12, 2025 • 39 mins
When a Florida woman stuffs her partner into a suitcase and leaves him to die, the legal battle that followed was just as twisted as the crime itself. Was it self-defense, premeditated murder, or something even more sinister? Fox Nation’s Lauren Conlin joins Dana Anderson to dissect the psychological profile of Sarah Boone. We’ll unravel her bizarre "hide-and-seek" defense, the damning interrogation tapes, and the forensic evidence that sealed her fate. How does body disposal influence public perception? And what role does expert testimony play in cases like this? Plus, Lauren shares insights on the Karen Read case, P. Diddy, the Blake Lively & Justin Baldoni lawsuit, and how media narratives shape legal strategies and jury decisions.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to the Chilling Case
02:56 The Psychological Profile of Sarah Boone
06:13 Domestic Violence Dynamics
09:05 The Role of Alcohol and Intoxication
11:49 Legal Implications and Defense Strategies
15:12 The Impact of Media and Public Perception
17:57 Comparative Cases and Broader Themes
20:55 Conclusion and Future Implications
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/killer-psychologist--6020549/support.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to the Chilling Case
02:56 The Psychological Profile of Sarah Boone
06:13 Domestic Violence Dynamics
09:05 The Role of Alcohol and Intoxication
11:49 Legal Implications and Defense Strategies
15:12 The Impact of Media and Public Perception
17:57 Comparative Cases and Broader Themes
20:55 Conclusion and Future Implications
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/killer-psychologist--6020549/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Killer Psychologist. I'm Dana Anderson, a forensic psychologist
and your host of the show. Killer Psychologist is for
true crime fanatics and anyone intrigued with the dark side
of psychology. Today I'm Killer Psychologist. We're unpacking a chilling
(00:22):
suitcase murder out of Florida. In twenty twenty, Sarah Boone
zipped her boyfriend George Torres Junior inside a suitcase and
left him pa suffocate, initially claiming it was a drunken
game of hide and seek gone wrong. However, disturbing videos
(00:44):
found on her cell phone told a far more sinister story,
one where she taunts him as he begs to be
let out. Given that evidence, the jury needed only less
than two hours to deliberate before delivering their verdict, and
in December of twenty twenty four, Boone was convicted of
(01:06):
second degree murder and sentenced to life in prison. So
today we're going to break down the psychological and forensic
elements of this case. Was it premeditation, intoxication, or something darker?
And today I'm joined with Lauren Colin, somebody who has
(01:27):
their pulse on true crime and pop culture, investigative journalist
Lauren Colin. You've seen her work on Fox Nation, where
she's been covering the most high profile cases right now,
including Luigi Mangioni and the Karen Reid trial. You can
watch her on Karen Reid Killer or Convenient Outsider where
(01:51):
she breaks down the complexities of that case. And Lauren also,
I don't know how she does it. I don't know
how she has time to be on so many podcasts
and host her own shows and host her own podcast,
The Outlier Podcast, where she's exploring everything from headline making
criminal cases to Hollywood scandals, bringing her signature storytelling and
(02:15):
investigative approach. So if you want the latest on crime
and pop culture, her platform is Pop Crime TV. It's
the go to source for the biggest stories in both worlds. Lauren,
I'm excited pit to meet.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
With you again.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
That was such a nice introduction. I'm so excited to
be here with you. We had a great time. I
should it's a weird thing to say we had a
great time, but we had a great discussion on Pop
Crime TV on my channel about Sarah Boone. I loved
all of your insights about this woman who drives me crazy.
I mean truly drives me crazy.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yeah, she kind of told on herself when she took
the stand and she tries to explain herself, and that
didn't do her any favors.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
No, And not only that, but she didn't take the
time to actually delete the videos that she took of
George Torres when he was in the suitcase and he
was trapped. So she actually, I mean, she made this
case really easy for investigators when they took her phone
and they saw not one but a couple videos that
(03:34):
she took of George and the suitcase begging to be
let out, where she's slurring her words. You can tell
she's drinking. I mean, at one point, doctor Dana, it
really upset me. It really made me sad because you
can hear George and he says, babe, babe. You know
he's trying, he's trying to just connect with her, saying babe,
(03:54):
just let me out, let me out, and her response,
it's horrifying. She says things like, oh, this is for
when you cheated on me, or when he says Sarah Sarah,
she says, that's my name. Don't wear it out. And
you can probably speak to this more because I mean,
she really is an immature child. I mean an immature
(04:15):
child who caused the death of another human being because
of her narcissism because she doesn't think that her actions
have any consequences.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
And that's my opinion. That's my lay opinion on her.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
But when I say she drives me crazy, it really
is because watching that trial and I follow that trial.
Like you said, she really just had an answer for everything,
but in my opinion, it was the wrong answer. She
tried to justify everything. Nothing was her fault. She was perfect.
(04:49):
She made it a point to say how she was
almost a mother figure and she would try to make
George do better in life because he drank too much,
but she didn't. And it was a tough watch, let
me tell you, man. And I cannot believe George Torres's
family had to sit there throughout that. I mean I
think they actually left during her sentencing because it was
(05:12):
so horrific. And I think we watched part of that
when you and I were on together. But man, when
she's like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry for every time George
didn XYZ to me. If I was his family, I
would have jumped across there and just.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Been like, yeah, that was hard to watch it. It
was devastating.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Yeah, a lot of her in her apology was definitely
not an apology, her saying that she's a victim bringing
out this abuse. And I thought probably one of the
most interesting things is that they were trying to use
the battered women's syndrome or battered person's syndrome in well,
(05:56):
I mean, the defense, what defense do you have? You
got to try something, so there you go. But was
that accurate in her case at all? Because the evidence
points towards that there were other domestic violence charges and
it was where she was the perpetrator. And interestingly enough,
(06:20):
there was a strangulation attempt against her boyfriend. So typically
we see the male as the perpetrator of strangulation, and
you don't hear about it too often for a female
to strangle someone, or even a female to strangle their
male partner. And that is such an insidious crime because
(06:44):
you can really conceal the injuries or claim that it
was something else, some other injury, but you can cause
someone a loss of consciousness, and you know, that's how
you can kill someone. And I have questions about how
(07:04):
she got him in the suitcase and whether she did
use strangulation.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
I am under the impression just through watching the trial,
and I do believe this.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
They were drunk.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
She actually was like, Oh, we were trying to be good,
so we were drinking wine instead of hard liquor, like
giant bottles of wine. I mean, yeah, you're so good.
But no, I believe they were both drunk and they
were playing hide and seek. They were playing games. She
alleged a lot that they were big fans of making
crafts and literally going back to being childlike. They did
(07:40):
all these things together. So apparently they were joking around
and she said, wouldn't it be funny if you got
in the suitcase? And he said, ho, yeah. I have
to think that he was very, very drunk. I am
not sure if they did any kind of toxicology report
on George Torres. I'm not sure if they could get
a BAC the next day, No idea, but I would
(08:03):
be really interested to know what that is. Additionally, going
back to some of the domestic violence, I was looking
through a police report from twenty eighteen when they both
were charged with domestic violence, and it seemed to me
that it was really unclear who started what, but they
did have this history where Sarah would get George arrested,
(08:23):
she would bail him out. But keep in mind he
was only one hundred and three pounds, So think of
how small that is for a man. I don't encounter
that many men that are one hundred and three pounds,
And it might be really easy for her to strangle
a neck that small, as well as get him into
(08:44):
a suitcase and get him drunk, because who knows if
he ate that day. So I think all of this
stuff factors in, and clearly this is why she wasn't
charged with first degree murder because it wasn't premeditated. I mean,
they had problems, they were I lent towards each other.
But again, Sarah just she doesn't seem to.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Think that the rules apply to her. She thinks she's
above it.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
She doesn't seem to think that she has consequences.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah, that's an excellent point, because you know, she's taking video,
he's documenting her crime, and I mean eventually discusses, you know,
she confesses, she talks about the reasons why she did
it and her rationalization. But at some point the rules
you know about murder. Did she think she was going
to get away with this? I think she did, I
(09:32):
really do, I really do. Or she thought that the
police would just be like, oh, yeah, we get it,
you're fine, we get it, you don't have to go
through all.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
The legal system issues. We're so sorry to inconvenience you here.
She really thought that that's what would happen.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
I think.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
So I have a clip to play. It's just a
minute long. Here. You can listen to her tone, her
word choice, her emotional responses, and let me know what
you think.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
That to George. You did not intentionally.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Know that.
Speaker 6 (10:07):
I don't know that you got up and you went
up today. Alcohol is a thing. It's alcohol. It's not
again the reason that you cap. You all listen to me,
(10:28):
You all listen. I did not not intentionally kill him.
Speaker 5 (10:42):
I don't know what it is I need to do
or how to do it, or what to say.
Speaker 6 (10:46):
Or how to say it.
Speaker 5 (10:48):
But but what was your intentions? Everyone knows. Everyone knows
everything that I've done for George and love him and
continuously helped him throughout his life with me and made
him a happier, better person. Everyone knows that. Everybody. So
it's like, okay, so while we're in a good place
right now, I'm gonna snap is that while we're in
(11:11):
a good way right now. Absolutely, I got you on
video screaming you.
Speaker 6 (11:17):
This is what it feels like when you're choking me.
This is what it feels which.
Speaker 5 (11:21):
One, however, long ago.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
So she's really starting to reveal more about herself and
leading up to that, the investigators already have a lot
of evidence, so they're just they brought her in for questioning,
and so people really give themselves away, their reaction, their rationalization,
their tone of voice, their body language, and you can
(11:46):
hear that all in that interview.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Yes, and I.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Actually believe she called her ex husband before she called
the police, and it's been a life edged or speculated
and again pure speculation that she most likely called him
first because she wanted his help to either dispose of
the suitcase dispose who knows. I mean again pure speculation.
(12:13):
I have no proof of this, but I could see
that happening.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Uh yeah, hey, I need a little help with that,
right you know. There was another case Heather Mac and
her boyfriend Tommy in twenty fourteen. They bludgend Heather Max's
mom to death and packed her in a suitcase and
called a taxi cab and loaded that suitcase up. There
(12:40):
was blood dripping on the outside that caused alarm. Heather
ended up getting ten years Tommy eighteen, and we can
talk about the differences of why women sometimes might be
sentenced less and your thoughts on that. Interestingly enough, she
served seven years, was released, and then was re arrested
and pleaded guilty to conspiring to kill someone and is
(13:03):
now serving twenty six years. So that actually is another
suitcase murder. And her defense at that time was that
it was a very abusive relationship between the mother and
daughter and there was blown out fights, but in the
end she kills her. But we look at all those
(13:25):
police reports leading up to that, and what does that
tell us who was the perpetrator, who was the victim?
Speaker 2 (13:36):
In a case like Sarah Boom.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
We're going to zoom in to those phone calls to
nine one one, you know, who was reporting, who was calling,
who had the injuries? What are they saying? And that
really tells a story. And I always tell people, if
you truly are a victim, report it, document it, document
(13:58):
your injuries, go to the hall, you know.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Yeah, And I think what's what's important and even what
we're finding in the case of Ditty Sean Colmes, is
even if there's no quote unquote tangible evidence, I think
what some of these survivors have done, which really adds
to their credibility and adds just to the you know,
the truthfulness of what happened to them, is they have
(14:23):
journal entries from when this alleged abuse was taking place.
They documented it, and that just goes a long way.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
It does.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Yes, those journal entries, it's all gone to trial. So
you've been covering Ditty.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Also, it's hard not to and I'm not even sure
if it's news anymore when another civil suit drops, because listen,
the civil suits are terrible, they are awful, and they
all seem to corroborate each other. But I'm really waiting
for his trial and may I mean, I really believe
that he does need to be behind bars if the
(15:03):
allegations are true. And I think that because of Cassi
e Ventura and her bravery and even what we've seen
on video, that.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
These are true.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
And Diddy came forward after that video and he apologized
and he said, you know, I'm a changed man. I
went to rehab, I did this, I did that, and
even his defense attorneys are stating that in court he's
a change man. But then you have people coming out,
survivors coming out and saying, oh no, no, I have proof.
(15:34):
This is what he did to me in twenty twenty one.
Well that's much later than twenty sixteen. So is he
a change man? I'm not sure. I wasn't there, but
it would seem to me that he wasn't. And it's
just you know, I think that now in twenty twenty five,
we've seen this with Diddy, with Harvey Weinstein. I mean,
the shoe is dropping here, and so it's gonna be
(15:57):
really hard for him to get out of this one.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Yeah, once you're locked up in jail, you know, suddenly
you're a change man. Yeah. No, not going to buy that.
I mean, you're sorry, you're there, you want to get out.
They'll say anything to change public perception. And for people
that are so powerful and have so much influence and money,
(16:23):
they are used to being able to change things up
right and get away with all this. And I think,
just like we talk about Sarah Boone and just disbelief,
like the rules don't apply to you, even if you
got caught. Still they don't apply because I'm so powerful.
He's gotten away with it for so long. I mean,
can you imagine everything he's done, and then he's gotten
(16:47):
away with it successfully, So he's sort of yeah, I
imagine a state of denial that like. And he's in
the same correct me if I'm he's in the same
correctional facility as Luigi Man.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Yes, they're in the same place. And it's interesting. I mean,
you know, Diddy apparently looks very bad right now. I
just spoke to a journalist from Rolling Stone who was
on my show, who was in federal court for his
last hearing, and she said it was pretty alarming. She
said that he was totally gray, he had lost a
(17:23):
significant amount of weight, and she described the whole experience
as being surreal just to see this man who was
once up here. And I would go as far to
say he was a hip hop genius. You know, he
produced some of the great songs, and he produced for
some of the greatest artists of my generation. And so
(17:45):
she said, just to see him. You know, he couldn't
talk to his kids, but they were there. He would
kind of turn around, he was shackled, he would smile
at them, and she just said, you know, it was surreal,
and I feel like the defense kind of wants this
for the TI, right, they want to make him look
like this weak, little poor guy, poor me, poor Seawan Colmes,
(18:06):
And so it sounds like it's working there because he's
not doing well well. That certainly has one strategy, right, Yeah,
to get sympathy from the jury. Well, we need to
invoke some empathy because we can't have him looking.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Too good and like you're all happy and wearing the
best suits, like he's done that before.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Right, exactly exactly. So let's talk.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
About another lawsuit that you've been covering as well, Blake
Lively and Justin Baldoni. I just finally watched the movie
a couple nights ago. It ends with us because I
was like, okay, start with step one. Just watch the
movie step one, and then when you talk with Lauren,
(18:51):
have her give you the recap of what's going on.
So it's interesting just to watch it. Watch the movie
where they interact together. This is before the lawsuit, and
now we can never get back to that point. Yeah,
So it's interesting. There's these accusations going back and forth,
and there's people have a strong opinion. They're taking sides.
(19:14):
And there's all kinds of this evidence that's coming out
now and it's public, and they're suming for an insane
amount of money, and who's right who's wrong? And I
always think about factors, like just like in the Johnny
Depp and Amber her trial where doctor Curry gets on
(19:35):
the stand and she did psychological testing right to determine
the personality pathology, and that's where it gets really interesting.
And I'm wondering at what point that may happen, because again,
if we're really like who's the victim, who's the proporator,
there's some serious personality factors at play.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
I don't know if this is ever going to go
to trial, though, I mean, I think that the the
way it's looking now, they should settle it outside of court.
I personally just don't think that Blake Lively thought it
would get to this point. I really don't. I think
that the lawsuit was meant to maybe scare him, maybe
to drag his image after what she alleged that she
(20:19):
went through. But just going back to the beginning here.
The movie was released in August of twenty twenty four.
It's based on Colleen Hoover's book. It ends with US
that sold twenty million copies. I mean, it was just
really well received on social media. There was TikTok hashtags
about it. So yeah, no wonder it became a movie.
(20:41):
And it explores the themes of domestic violence, emotional abuse,
and it's based on Colleen Hoover's own parents.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
And so she supposedly had this.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Relationship with Justin Baldoni for a while and he was
going back and forth with her, and she said, I
think you're the right guy to make this movie, because
Justin Baldoni has a production company called Wayfair Studios. And
eventually she says, you know what, I think you're the
right guy to play Ryle Kincaid. And Ryle Kincaid is
the lead, the leading man in this movie, and he
(21:15):
is the alleged abuser. And then we have Blake Lively
who then gets cast as Lily Bloom and she's the
leading lady, the one who makes the choice to escape
domestic abuse, and her own parents at seeing the movie,
they had some problems, and so I believe that Blake
(21:35):
was their ticket to really selling this movie. So when
it's released in August of twenty twenty four, there's some
drama there's some buzz that they unfollowed each other, Justin
and Blake on Instagram, and then you see that they're
promoting the movie, but they're promoting it separately, and Justin's
not with Blake at the opening premiere of the movie,
(21:57):
and it just seems.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
A little bit off.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
And then all of a sudden, we see these news
articles dropping about how horrible Blake Lively is, and then
she's being dragged for the way that she's promoting this movie.
At one point she says, get your friends and your
florals and come and see this movie. And people are like, wait,
is this a movie about domestic violence or is this
(22:21):
just a rom com? We're not sure her image. I
felt guilty. I felt like I was a part of this.
I was making some tiktoks and putting out content based
on some of the negative press that I saw around Blake.
I was, and I'm not a nasty person at all,
but I will draw attention to it and say, wow,
this is really uncomfortable. So a few months later, this
(22:44):
lawsuit drops. Blake drops this lawsuit against Wayfair Justin Baldoni
alleging sexual harassment. I mean, the lawsuit was horrendous, and
she also accuses him of I get concosting this smear
campaign with a crisis P company. He used the same
crisis PR company as Johnny Depp, and it looked bad.
(23:06):
But keep in mind, you can say whatever you want
in allegations. You will not get sued unless it goes
to court. And these allegations are proven to be defamation,
So technically, yeah, you can say whatever you want. But
she had some email receipts and it looked bad. I
felt horrible. I was like, oh my gosh, I totally
bought into this whole PR trap. I'm so naive. How
(23:28):
could I have done this well? Justin Baldoni then gets
dropped by his agency, who also reps Blake and Ryan.
In Blake's lawsuit, she says other female cast and crew
members felt the same way, and I don't know if
she just expected him to sit there and roll over
and take it, but he doesn't. And also it's been
(23:51):
alleged that somebody on her team, possibly Taylor Swift, talked
to her friend at The New York Times, rown in Pharaoh,
who's responsible for the me too movement.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
He's like the me too.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Father, and leaked this lawsuit and kind of got him
to I think it was what's her name, something too weey,
I'm drawing a blank. But she also worked with two
We worked with him on the Me Too movement. They
want a Pulitzer Prize together. And she's the one who
dropped this article. This article just smearing Justin Baldoni. So
then Justin Baldoni drops a lawsuit against The New York
(24:25):
Times saying they don't have the context. And then he
drops a lawsuit against Blake and Ryan. You can see
it on his website. I believe it's lawsuit info dot com.
And that's when things really changed for me, doctor Dana.
He came out and he had answers and context for
everything that Blake alleged. I'm not saying what Some of
(24:46):
this stuff she said wasn't true. I don't know it
wasn't there, But what he has showed us, I'm like, wow, okay,
well that's not true. She alleged at one point that
he was just being inappropriate with her and kind of
leaned too close to her during this one scene where
they were improvising, and he said something like, ugh, you
smell so good, and he lingered and then his lawyer
(25:08):
Brian Friedman releases this video where it looks fine to me.
Their ad libbing, they're in character. At one point he
makes a comment about his nose and she kind of
nokes with him, like, yeah, you should probably get that fixed.
She looks worse in that video than he did. She
said that they would barge into her trailer while she
was breastfeeding. He puts a text up that says Blake
(25:29):
said something like I'm just pumping, but come.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
In whenever you want.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
I mean all of these different things, and it would
take too long to go through all of it. But
it just seems like Justin was in a really bad
spot because Blake had an executive producer title, and she
started to really overstep it, if you will.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
She was rewriting pages.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
I don't know how some of this flies with the
writer's guilds and some of their rules, but somehow it did.
And then she wanted to be a part of the
editing process. Then she actually commissioned someone to be her
own editor. So Justin Baldoni here, I truly believe that
he was just trying to manage all of this. And
again he was the director, the producer, the star of
(26:14):
the movie as well, and she had him basically kicked
out of the premiere. He was allowed to walk the carpet,
but then he had to go wait in the basement.
So and there's just so much more. But I really
do feel like it's just it's so messy and at
this point, at this point, I don't know what's going
to happen in the future, but it seems like Justin
(26:38):
has a little bit more evidence which would make him
not exactly what Blake Lively has painted him to be.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Now, could he be a douche? Probably, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
I mean, he does seem to be like this feminist
with a man bun. He's written books on toxic masculinity,
I mean, and whatever, give me a break. But yeah,
I do feel like he he might not be this
bad of a guy that she's making it out to be,
if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Thank you for that recap. I wanted all that.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
I wanted all the clip notes. Thank you. Yeah. I
let so much out too, because it would take forever.
But yeah, so you kind of get it.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yeah, So then it's like, what is really going on here?
This is a lot I always think about some of
the personality dynamics, which makes me think of Blake and
how it's playing out and what factors those might be
and can someone move on or let this go or
where do we go from here?
Speaker 4 (27:36):
It is so.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Disruptive to someone's life. Is it one of these things
where you have to be right, like you have to
have the final word? Can two people disagree or have
two different opinions? And this is very extreme, so I
would be very curious. Let's just say, well, if it
did go to trial, then you do have psychologists that
(28:01):
do an evaluation, and they can identify certain personality types,
just like they did with Amber Heard. You know, did
she have PTSD or just like was Sarah Boon? You know?
Was she a victim? Was she a battered person or
was it something else? And people, even if you don't
(28:23):
test them, you just see their behaviors over time. Like
the start coming out Sarah Boon, I think everyone you
could see there was some narcissistic traits. And one of
the things that is interesting is people that are high
in narcissism, they seem to categorize people into being certain
(28:45):
characters and they need you to sort of stay in
that character. And when you fall short of that they
want to put you back into that position. You're kind
of like upsetting everything they have. It all kind of
mapped out of who you should be in relation to them,
like you are this person to me, and if you
fall out of line, they sometimes can lose their mind
(29:09):
and there's the struggle for power and control to put
them back into that position or place where they want
to put them at right, like literally pack them up
in a suitcase and take them out the door.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
And speaking of I don't know if you saw this,
but in the I think it was two or three
days ago I mentioned I live in New York City,
or maybe I didn't mention that hu, but in the
East River by Governor's Island, they found a torso wrapped
in a sleeping bag, floating in a suitcase in the river.
So now I know it's crazy and there's not many
detail about that, but I mean, it's just like, God,
(29:45):
where do you even start as law enforcement?
Speaker 2 (29:48):
There?
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Wait, this is happening right now, there's a torso in
the river.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
There was, yes, and not only that, I don't know
why the news is so cryptic in New York lately,
but there was also a Haitian real estate agent that
was just found hogtide off of a Queen's Highway near
Bayside Queen's Blunt Forest, trauma to the head. Nobody knows
how long he'd been there for. I believe he was
reported missing on January first. But that's another crazy homicide
(30:16):
that law enforcement has on their hands.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Well, I wanted to visit New York because I haven't
been there.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Come on over.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
You might end up being hog tied in the river
or in a suitcase. But why m California And we've
got a number of problems here, let me tell you.
And then we have the you know, we're talked about
the Florida woman, Sarah Boone, and last week I talked
about a Florida surgeon who removed a wrong organ and
his patient died and there's a lawsuit off ball.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Which we also sort of talked about.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
The personality factors at play of how someone goes unchecked
for so long and how did they get away with this?
How can they be in these positions of power for
so long. Definitely are certain personality types. History onic personality
traits isn't something we talked about, but people in Hollywood
that are very sexualized or very showy or very tension seeking,
(31:12):
or just like that's how they get their needs met
being beautiful. It can be problematic, right, that's you people
can start to use that to get their needs met
and it can eventually be a problem in your relationships.
And that's what a personality disorder is, like a number
of ways that you're coping with things that turns out
(31:33):
to be maladaptive. So I'm fascinated with how.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
This will go with Blake Lively.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
And there may be reasons why you wouldn't want that
to go to trial because it is going to reveal
so much more about yourself than maybe you were ever
prepared to reveal. Like we all have a personal side
of ourselves. We all have things, so we just wouldn't
want to be on trial.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Well, I don't know if she anticipated that he would
have all of this evidence. I mean, how could she not?
Though he was the director, his production company made the movie.
Of course he has access to raw footage. And also
again it's like your text messages are really going to
be out there and not could be very embarrassing. I
(32:22):
mean I feel like just quickly jumping into Karen Reid
after I watched that trial and they basically disclosed all
of these text messages that she I guess we're exchanging
with this atf agent Brian Hagen's and it was so cringey.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
I felt so.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Just odd and I was like, oh my gosh, imagine
someone goes through my best message and it's just something
that you're like, Wow, I never thought about this. Yeah,
it's weird. And so I've always taken this stance. I
shouldn't say always, but now more than ever, I'm kind
of like, don't text anything that you wouldn't want a
judge to read out loud or maybe your family to see,
(33:04):
because this sucks.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
So Blake Lively is, Yeah, she might not want.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
All of her text messages between you know her and
Justin Baldoni revealed no.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
And Karen Reid did you know? She went on the
internet and was googling things. I think she was googling
like how long till someone.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Ow Jennifer McCabe.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
But when John didn't come home, Karen called two of
his friends.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
She didn't even really know them that well.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
She had to get one of their numbers, Jen's number
from John's niece, and they went looking for John, and
you know, they ended up finding him or Karen spotted
him first when he was lying in front of thirty
four fair Review. And it's really sad because he died
of blunt force trauma to the head in hypothermia, and
he could have been saved if somebody would have found
(33:55):
him lying there, but nobody saw him go into the
house into thirty four fair of view. Yet nobody saw
him lying out in the colds, but they did see
Karen outside just sitting there with her light on, just
waiting for him to go in the house. And so
this whole thing doesn't make sense. But when she finally
had a defense and they were able to subpoena certain
phone records, they saw that this woman, Jen McCabe, allegedly
(34:18):
googled hoss long it was a typo how long to
die in the cold at two twenty seven am and
then she deleted the search. And now Jen and the
state they have their experts saying that that search was
actually made between six and seven am, and it was
because when they found John's body, Karen said, how quick
(34:39):
google how long to die in the cold. And so
it's also interesting because the state generally looks to celebrate
for this data, but in this instance, they're saying, don't
listen this cellbright. They're not correct, our experts correct. So
the Karen retrial, in my opinion, is hands down a
battle of the experts because nobody knows what the hell
to make sense of anything.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Wow, So is she guilty or innocent?
Speaker 3 (35:05):
For me, I'm fine saying the way I feel. I
do feel like it's a couple things. I think that
they're charging her with murder, second degree murder, that is
such an overreach.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
This woman is not a murderer.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
You hear these vicious voicemails that she leaves him when
he didn't come home, She called him over fifty times,
and this is supposedly after she angrily ran him over
with her car. The defense experts, and they weren't even
the defense experts, they were the FEDS crash reconstructionists, and
they were doctors of physics. They kind of said that
(35:41):
she would have had to been a NASCAR driver to
go from zero to forty miles an hour in four
seconds to back over him and kill him. So, but again,
this is what the defense is saying. So I think
that this case has so much reasonable doubt here that
it's tough explanation would be, yeah, she accidentally hit him
(36:03):
and ran over him, but I following the trial, I'm
just not so sure that happened.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Oh my gosh, you have the front row seat to
the best cases. I'm honestly a little bit jealous, and
I'm like, what, I'm fascinated by it. So you're taking
in all this information, So I'll have to keep calling
you and getting together just so I can get the
latest on all these cases.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
It's hard to keep up with all them.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
It's so hard, and I really do try to see
both sides of everything, because if you don't, then you
know what's the point here. So again, Karen Reid is
a tough one, but I don't see how she's a murderer.
I don't think that makes any sense. And I think
that what they've done here, it's like Officer John O'Keeffe.
He's a police officer, and the investigation into his death
(36:52):
was not good. It was not an investigation that you
should do for one of your own, for one of
your brothers in blue. So the whole thing has kind
of been a disgrace here.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Wow, Wow, it's heartbreaking, And yeah, thank you for giving
me an update on all those cases. Well, my head
is spinning, so I know you do have to go here,
But I why should I go watch next? Because you've
been involved in so many shows right now and podcasts?
Speaker 2 (37:20):
What do I need to watch?
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Tell people what we need to go watch on our
playlist here?
Speaker 3 (37:25):
Well, I was going to say, I believe I don't
know what the date is for This Thursday on the
CW at nine pm, I will be on a show
called Crime Nation, and I covered this horrible case out
of Kansas, the Kansas Mom's Killings, and I have done
(37:45):
numerous podcasts on that. You can look at my playlists
on Pop Crime TV. But we'll be covering the case
on that show and it's unadjudicated still, so these women
desperately need justice, and I think more people should know
about that story. So watch that one this Thursday at
nine pm on the CW. Okay, thank you, thank you
(38:06):
so much for joining me today. I love talking to
you and can't wait to connect.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
With you again. Me too, Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Thank you for listening to Killer Psychologist. To watch full
video episodes or if you want to interact with me,
you can find Killer Psychologist on YouTube. You can also
get notified of new episodes by signing up in my
stand store now. If you want to work with me,
you can book a console. My website is psychologydoctor dot com.
(38:41):
That's psychologydr dot com.
Welcome to Killer Psychologist. I'm Dana Anderson, a forensic psychologist
and your host of the show. Killer Psychologist is for
true crime fanatics and anyone intrigued with the dark side
of psychology. Today I'm Killer Psychologist. We're unpacking a chilling
(00:22):
suitcase murder out of Florida. In twenty twenty, Sarah Boone
zipped her boyfriend George Torres Junior inside a suitcase and
left him pa suffocate, initially claiming it was a drunken
game of hide and seek gone wrong. However, disturbing videos
(00:44):
found on her cell phone told a far more sinister story,
one where she taunts him as he begs to be
let out. Given that evidence, the jury needed only less
than two hours to deliberate before delivering their verdict, and
in December of twenty twenty four, Boone was convicted of
(01:06):
second degree murder and sentenced to life in prison. So
today we're going to break down the psychological and forensic
elements of this case. Was it premeditation, intoxication, or something darker?
And today I'm joined with Lauren Colin, somebody who has
(01:27):
their pulse on true crime and pop culture, investigative journalist
Lauren Colin. You've seen her work on Fox Nation, where
she's been covering the most high profile cases right now,
including Luigi Mangioni and the Karen Reid trial. You can
watch her on Karen Reid Killer or Convenient Outsider where
(01:51):
she breaks down the complexities of that case. And Lauren also,
I don't know how she does it. I don't know
how she has time to be on so many podcasts
and host her own shows and host her own podcast,
The Outlier Podcast, where she's exploring everything from headline making
criminal cases to Hollywood scandals, bringing her signature storytelling and
(02:15):
investigative approach. So if you want the latest on crime
and pop culture, her platform is Pop Crime TV. It's
the go to source for the biggest stories in both worlds. Lauren,
I'm excited pit to meet.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
With you again.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
That was such a nice introduction. I'm so excited to
be here with you. We had a great time. I
should it's a weird thing to say we had a
great time, but we had a great discussion on Pop
Crime TV on my channel about Sarah Boone. I loved
all of your insights about this woman who drives me crazy.
I mean truly drives me crazy.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yeah, she kind of told on herself when she took
the stand and she tries to explain herself, and that
didn't do her any favors.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
No, And not only that, but she didn't take the
time to actually delete the videos that she took of
George Torres when he was in the suitcase and he
was trapped. So she actually, I mean, she made this
case really easy for investigators when they took her phone
and they saw not one but a couple videos that
(03:34):
she took of George and the suitcase begging to be
let out, where she's slurring her words. You can tell
she's drinking. I mean, at one point, doctor Dana, it
really upset me. It really made me sad because you
can hear George and he says, babe, babe. You know
he's trying, he's trying to just connect with her, saying babe,
(03:54):
just let me out, let me out, and her response,
it's horrifying. She says things like, oh, this is for
when you cheated on me, or when he says Sarah Sarah,
she says, that's my name. Don't wear it out. And
you can probably speak to this more because I mean,
she really is an immature child. I mean an immature
(04:15):
child who caused the death of another human being because
of her narcissism because she doesn't think that her actions
have any consequences.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
And that's my opinion. That's my lay opinion on her.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
But when I say she drives me crazy, it really
is because watching that trial and I follow that trial.
Like you said, she really just had an answer for everything,
but in my opinion, it was the wrong answer. She
tried to justify everything. Nothing was her fault. She was perfect.
(04:49):
She made it a point to say how she was
almost a mother figure and she would try to make
George do better in life because he drank too much,
but she didn't. And it was a tough watch, let
me tell you, man. And I cannot believe George Torres's
family had to sit there throughout that. I mean I
think they actually left during her sentencing because it was
(05:12):
so horrific. And I think we watched part of that
when you and I were on together. But man, when
she's like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry for every time George
didn XYZ to me. If I was his family, I
would have jumped across there and just.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Been like, yeah, that was hard to watch it. It
was devastating.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Yeah, a lot of her in her apology was definitely
not an apology, her saying that she's a victim bringing
out this abuse. And I thought probably one of the
most interesting things is that they were trying to use
the battered women's syndrome or battered person's syndrome in well,
(05:56):
I mean, the defense, what defense do you have? You
got to try something, so there you go. But was
that accurate in her case at all? Because the evidence
points towards that there were other domestic violence charges and
it was where she was the perpetrator. And interestingly enough,
(06:20):
there was a strangulation attempt against her boyfriend. So typically
we see the male as the perpetrator of strangulation, and
you don't hear about it too often for a female
to strangle someone, or even a female to strangle their
male partner. And that is such an insidious crime because
(06:44):
you can really conceal the injuries or claim that it
was something else, some other injury, but you can cause
someone a loss of consciousness, and you know, that's how
you can kill someone. And I have questions about how
(07:04):
she got him in the suitcase and whether she did
use strangulation.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
I am under the impression just through watching the trial,
and I do believe this.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
They were drunk.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
She actually was like, Oh, we were trying to be good,
so we were drinking wine instead of hard liquor, like
giant bottles of wine. I mean, yeah, you're so good.
But no, I believe they were both drunk and they
were playing hide and seek. They were playing games. She
alleged a lot that they were big fans of making
crafts and literally going back to being childlike. They did
(07:40):
all these things together. So apparently they were joking around
and she said, wouldn't it be funny if you got
in the suitcase? And he said, ho, yeah. I have
to think that he was very, very drunk. I am
not sure if they did any kind of toxicology report
on George Torres. I'm not sure if they could get
a BAC the next day, No idea, but I would
(08:03):
be really interested to know what that is. Additionally, going
back to some of the domestic violence, I was looking
through a police report from twenty eighteen when they both
were charged with domestic violence, and it seemed to me
that it was really unclear who started what, but they
did have this history where Sarah would get George arrested,
(08:23):
she would bail him out. But keep in mind he
was only one hundred and three pounds, So think of
how small that is for a man. I don't encounter
that many men that are one hundred and three pounds,
And it might be really easy for her to strangle
a neck that small, as well as get him into
(08:44):
a suitcase and get him drunk, because who knows if
he ate that day. So I think all of this
stuff factors in, and clearly this is why she wasn't
charged with first degree murder because it wasn't premeditated. I mean,
they had problems, they were I lent towards each other.
But again, Sarah just she doesn't seem to.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Think that the rules apply to her. She thinks she's
above it.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
She doesn't seem to think that she has consequences.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah, that's an excellent point, because you know, she's taking video,
he's documenting her crime, and I mean eventually discusses, you know,
she confesses, she talks about the reasons why she did
it and her rationalization. But at some point the rules
you know about murder. Did she think she was going
to get away with this? I think she did, I
(09:32):
really do, I really do. Or she thought that the
police would just be like, oh, yeah, we get it,
you're fine, we get it, you don't have to go
through all.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
The legal system issues. We're so sorry to inconvenience you here.
She really thought that that's what would happen.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
I think.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
So I have a clip to play. It's just a
minute long. Here. You can listen to her tone, her
word choice, her emotional responses, and let me know what
you think.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
That to George. You did not intentionally.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Know that.
Speaker 6 (10:07):
I don't know that you got up and you went
up today. Alcohol is a thing. It's alcohol. It's not
again the reason that you cap. You all listen to me,
(10:28):
You all listen. I did not not intentionally kill him.
Speaker 5 (10:42):
I don't know what it is I need to do
or how to do it, or what to say.
Speaker 6 (10:46):
Or how to say it.
Speaker 5 (10:48):
But but what was your intentions? Everyone knows. Everyone knows
everything that I've done for George and love him and
continuously helped him throughout his life with me and made
him a happier, better person. Everyone knows that. Everybody. So
it's like, okay, so while we're in a good place
right now, I'm gonna snap is that while we're in
(11:11):
a good way right now. Absolutely, I got you on
video screaming you.
Speaker 6 (11:17):
This is what it feels like when you're choking me.
This is what it feels which.
Speaker 5 (11:21):
One, however, long ago.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
So she's really starting to reveal more about herself and
leading up to that, the investigators already have a lot
of evidence, so they're just they brought her in for questioning,
and so people really give themselves away, their reaction, their rationalization,
their tone of voice, their body language, and you can
(11:46):
hear that all in that interview.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Yes, and I.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Actually believe she called her ex husband before she called
the police, and it's been a life edged or speculated
and again pure speculation that she most likely called him
first because she wanted his help to either dispose of
the suitcase dispose who knows. I mean again pure speculation.
(12:13):
I have no proof of this, but I could see
that happening.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Uh yeah, hey, I need a little help with that,
right you know. There was another case Heather Mac and
her boyfriend Tommy in twenty fourteen. They bludgend Heather Max's
mom to death and packed her in a suitcase and
called a taxi cab and loaded that suitcase up. There
(12:40):
was blood dripping on the outside that caused alarm. Heather
ended up getting ten years Tommy eighteen, and we can
talk about the differences of why women sometimes might be
sentenced less and your thoughts on that. Interestingly enough, she
served seven years, was released, and then was re arrested
and pleaded guilty to conspiring to kill someone and is
(13:03):
now serving twenty six years. So that actually is another
suitcase murder. And her defense at that time was that
it was a very abusive relationship between the mother and
daughter and there was blown out fights, but in the
end she kills her. But we look at all those
(13:25):
police reports leading up to that, and what does that
tell us who was the perpetrator, who was the victim?
Speaker 2 (13:36):
In a case like Sarah Boom.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
We're going to zoom in to those phone calls to
nine one one, you know, who was reporting, who was calling,
who had the injuries? What are they saying? And that
really tells a story. And I always tell people, if
you truly are a victim, report it, document it, document
(13:58):
your injuries, go to the hall, you know.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Yeah, And I think what's what's important and even what
we're finding in the case of Ditty Sean Colmes, is
even if there's no quote unquote tangible evidence, I think
what some of these survivors have done, which really adds
to their credibility and adds just to the you know,
the truthfulness of what happened to them, is they have
(14:23):
journal entries from when this alleged abuse was taking place.
They documented it, and that just goes a long way.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
It does.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Yes, those journal entries, it's all gone to trial. So
you've been covering Ditty.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Also, it's hard not to and I'm not even sure
if it's news anymore when another civil suit drops, because listen,
the civil suits are terrible, they are awful, and they
all seem to corroborate each other. But I'm really waiting
for his trial and may I mean, I really believe
that he does need to be behind bars if the
(15:03):
allegations are true. And I think that because of Cassi
e Ventura and her bravery and even what we've seen
on video, that.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
These are true.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
And Diddy came forward after that video and he apologized
and he said, you know, I'm a changed man. I
went to rehab, I did this, I did that, and
even his defense attorneys are stating that in court he's
a change man. But then you have people coming out,
survivors coming out and saying, oh no, no, I have proof.
(15:34):
This is what he did to me in twenty twenty one.
Well that's much later than twenty sixteen. So is he
a change man? I'm not sure. I wasn't there, but
it would seem to me that he wasn't. And it's
just you know, I think that now in twenty twenty five,
we've seen this with Diddy, with Harvey Weinstein. I mean,
the shoe is dropping here, and so it's gonna be
(15:57):
really hard for him to get out of this one.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Yeah, once you're locked up in jail, you know, suddenly
you're a change man. Yeah. No, not going to buy that.
I mean, you're sorry, you're there, you want to get out.
They'll say anything to change public perception. And for people
that are so powerful and have so much influence and money,
(16:23):
they are used to being able to change things up
right and get away with all this. And I think,
just like we talk about Sarah Boone and just disbelief,
like the rules don't apply to you, even if you
got caught. Still they don't apply because I'm so powerful.
He's gotten away with it for so long. I mean,
can you imagine everything he's done, and then he's gotten
(16:47):
away with it successfully, So he's sort of yeah, I
imagine a state of denial that like. And he's in
the same correct me if I'm he's in the same
correctional facility as Luigi Man.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Yes, they're in the same place. And it's interesting. I mean,
you know, Diddy apparently looks very bad right now. I
just spoke to a journalist from Rolling Stone who was
on my show, who was in federal court for his
last hearing, and she said it was pretty alarming. She
said that he was totally gray, he had lost a
(17:23):
significant amount of weight, and she described the whole experience
as being surreal just to see this man who was
once up here. And I would go as far to
say he was a hip hop genius. You know, he
produced some of the great songs, and he produced for
some of the greatest artists of my generation. And so
(17:45):
she said, just to see him. You know, he couldn't
talk to his kids, but they were there. He would
kind of turn around, he was shackled, he would smile
at them, and she just said, you know, it was surreal,
and I feel like the defense kind of wants this
for the TI, right, they want to make him look
like this weak, little poor guy, poor me, poor Seawan Colmes,
(18:06):
And so it sounds like it's working there because he's
not doing well well. That certainly has one strategy, right, Yeah,
to get sympathy from the jury. Well, we need to
invoke some empathy because we can't have him looking.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Too good and like you're all happy and wearing the
best suits, like he's done that before.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Right, exactly exactly. So let's talk.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
About another lawsuit that you've been covering as well, Blake
Lively and Justin Baldoni. I just finally watched the movie
a couple nights ago. It ends with us because I
was like, okay, start with step one. Just watch the
movie step one, and then when you talk with Lauren,
(18:51):
have her give you the recap of what's going on.
So it's interesting just to watch it. Watch the movie
where they interact together. This is before the lawsuit, and
now we can never get back to that point. Yeah,
So it's interesting. There's these accusations going back and forth,
and there's people have a strong opinion. They're taking sides.
(19:14):
And there's all kinds of this evidence that's coming out
now and it's public, and they're suming for an insane
amount of money, and who's right who's wrong? And I
always think about factors, like just like in the Johnny
Depp and Amber her trial where doctor Curry gets on
(19:35):
the stand and she did psychological testing right to determine
the personality pathology, and that's where it gets really interesting.
And I'm wondering at what point that may happen, because again,
if we're really like who's the victim, who's the proporator,
there's some serious personality factors at play.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
I don't know if this is ever going to go
to trial, though, I mean, I think that the the
way it's looking now, they should settle it outside of court.
I personally just don't think that Blake Lively thought it
would get to this point. I really don't. I think
that the lawsuit was meant to maybe scare him, maybe
to drag his image after what she alleged that she
(20:19):
went through. But just going back to the beginning here.
The movie was released in August of twenty twenty four.
It's based on Colleen Hoover's book. It ends with US
that sold twenty million copies. I mean, it was just
really well received on social media. There was TikTok hashtags
about it. So yeah, no wonder it became a movie.
(20:41):
And it explores the themes of domestic violence, emotional abuse,
and it's based on Colleen Hoover's own parents.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
And so she supposedly had this.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Relationship with Justin Baldoni for a while and he was
going back and forth with her, and she said, I
think you're the right guy to make this movie, because
Justin Baldoni has a production company called Wayfair Studios. And
eventually she says, you know what, I think you're the
right guy to play Ryle Kincaid. And Ryle Kincaid is
the lead, the leading man in this movie, and he
(21:15):
is the alleged abuser. And then we have Blake Lively
who then gets cast as Lily Bloom and she's the
leading lady, the one who makes the choice to escape
domestic abuse, and her own parents at seeing the movie,
they had some problems, and so I believe that Blake
(21:35):
was their ticket to really selling this movie. So when
it's released in August of twenty twenty four, there's some
drama there's some buzz that they unfollowed each other, Justin
and Blake on Instagram, and then you see that they're
promoting the movie, but they're promoting it separately, and Justin's
not with Blake at the opening premiere of the movie,
(21:57):
and it just seems.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
A little bit off.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
And then all of a sudden, we see these news
articles dropping about how horrible Blake Lively is, and then
she's being dragged for the way that she's promoting this movie.
At one point she says, get your friends and your
florals and come and see this movie. And people are like, wait,
is this a movie about domestic violence or is this
(22:21):
just a rom com? We're not sure her image. I
felt guilty. I felt like I was a part of this.
I was making some tiktoks and putting out content based
on some of the negative press that I saw around Blake.
I was, and I'm not a nasty person at all,
but I will draw attention to it and say, wow,
this is really uncomfortable. So a few months later, this
(22:44):
lawsuit drops. Blake drops this lawsuit against Wayfair Justin Baldoni
alleging sexual harassment. I mean, the lawsuit was horrendous, and
she also accuses him of I get concosting this smear
campaign with a crisis P company. He used the same
crisis PR company as Johnny Depp, and it looked bad.
(23:06):
But keep in mind, you can say whatever you want
in allegations. You will not get sued unless it goes
to court. And these allegations are proven to be defamation,
So technically, yeah, you can say whatever you want. But
she had some email receipts and it looked bad. I
felt horrible. I was like, oh my gosh, I totally
bought into this whole PR trap. I'm so naive. How
(23:28):
could I have done this well? Justin Baldoni then gets
dropped by his agency, who also reps Blake and Ryan.
In Blake's lawsuit, she says other female cast and crew
members felt the same way, and I don't know if
she just expected him to sit there and roll over
and take it, but he doesn't. And also it's been
(23:51):
alleged that somebody on her team, possibly Taylor Swift, talked
to her friend at The New York Times, rown in Pharaoh,
who's responsible for the me too movement.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
He's like the me too.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Father, and leaked this lawsuit and kind of got him
to I think it was what's her name, something too weey,
I'm drawing a blank. But she also worked with two
We worked with him on the Me Too movement. They
want a Pulitzer Prize together. And she's the one who
dropped this article. This article just smearing Justin Baldoni. So
then Justin Baldoni drops a lawsuit against The New York
(24:25):
Times saying they don't have the context. And then he
drops a lawsuit against Blake and Ryan. You can see
it on his website. I believe it's lawsuit info dot com.
And that's when things really changed for me, doctor Dana.
He came out and he had answers and context for
everything that Blake alleged. I'm not saying what Some of
(24:46):
this stuff she said wasn't true. I don't know it
wasn't there, But what he has showed us, I'm like, wow, okay,
well that's not true. She alleged at one point that
he was just being inappropriate with her and kind of
leaned too close to her during this one scene where
they were improvising, and he said something like, ugh, you
smell so good, and he lingered and then his lawyer
(25:08):
Brian Friedman releases this video where it looks fine to me.
Their ad libbing, they're in character. At one point he
makes a comment about his nose and she kind of
nokes with him, like, yeah, you should probably get that fixed.
She looks worse in that video than he did. She
said that they would barge into her trailer while she
was breastfeeding. He puts a text up that says Blake
(25:29):
said something like I'm just pumping, but come.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
In whenever you want.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
I mean all of these different things, and it would
take too long to go through all of it. But
it just seems like Justin was in a really bad
spot because Blake had an executive producer title, and she
started to really overstep it, if you will.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
She was rewriting pages.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
I don't know how some of this flies with the
writer's guilds and some of their rules, but somehow it did.
And then she wanted to be a part of the
editing process. Then she actually commissioned someone to be her
own editor. So Justin Baldoni here, I truly believe that
he was just trying to manage all of this. And
again he was the director, the producer, the star of
(26:14):
the movie as well, and she had him basically kicked
out of the premiere. He was allowed to walk the carpet,
but then he had to go wait in the basement.
So and there's just so much more. But I really
do feel like it's just it's so messy and at
this point, at this point, I don't know what's going
to happen in the future, but it seems like Justin
(26:38):
has a little bit more evidence which would make him
not exactly what Blake Lively has painted him to be.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Now, could he be a douche? Probably, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
I mean, he does seem to be like this feminist
with a man bun. He's written books on toxic masculinity,
I mean, and whatever, give me a break. But yeah,
I do feel like he he might not be this
bad of a guy that she's making it out to be,
if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Thank you for that recap. I wanted all that.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
I wanted all the clip notes. Thank you. Yeah. I
let so much out too, because it would take forever.
But yeah, so you kind of get it.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yeah, So then it's like, what is really going on here?
This is a lot I always think about some of
the personality dynamics, which makes me think of Blake and
how it's playing out and what factors those might be
and can someone move on or let this go or
where do we go from here?
Speaker 4 (27:36):
It is so.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Disruptive to someone's life. Is it one of these things
where you have to be right, like you have to
have the final word? Can two people disagree or have
two different opinions? And this is very extreme, so I
would be very curious. Let's just say, well, if it
did go to trial, then you do have psychologists that
(28:01):
do an evaluation, and they can identify certain personality types,
just like they did with Amber Heard. You know, did
she have PTSD or just like was Sarah Boon? You know?
Was she a victim? Was she a battered person or
was it something else? And people, even if you don't
(28:23):
test them, you just see their behaviors over time. Like
the start coming out Sarah Boon, I think everyone you
could see there was some narcissistic traits. And one of
the things that is interesting is people that are high
in narcissism, they seem to categorize people into being certain
(28:45):
characters and they need you to sort of stay in
that character. And when you fall short of that they
want to put you back into that position. You're kind
of like upsetting everything they have. It all kind of
mapped out of who you should be in relation to them,
like you are this person to me, and if you
fall out of line, they sometimes can lose their mind
(29:09):
and there's the struggle for power and control to put
them back into that position or place where they want
to put them at right, like literally pack them up
in a suitcase and take them out the door.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
And speaking of I don't know if you saw this,
but in the I think it was two or three
days ago I mentioned I live in New York City,
or maybe I didn't mention that hu, but in the
East River by Governor's Island, they found a torso wrapped
in a sleeping bag, floating in a suitcase in the river.
So now I know it's crazy and there's not many
detail about that, but I mean, it's just like, God,
(29:45):
where do you even start as law enforcement?
Speaker 2 (29:48):
There?
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Wait, this is happening right now, there's a torso in
the river.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
There was, yes, and not only that, I don't know
why the news is so cryptic in New York lately,
but there was also a Haitian real estate agent that
was just found hogtide off of a Queen's Highway near
Bayside Queen's Blunt Forest, trauma to the head. Nobody knows
how long he'd been there for. I believe he was
reported missing on January first. But that's another crazy homicide
(30:16):
that law enforcement has on their hands.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Well, I wanted to visit New York because I haven't
been there.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Come on over.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
You might end up being hog tied in the river
or in a suitcase. But why m California And we've
got a number of problems here, let me tell you.
And then we have the you know, we're talked about
the Florida woman, Sarah Boone, and last week I talked
about a Florida surgeon who removed a wrong organ and
his patient died and there's a lawsuit off ball.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Which we also sort of talked about.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
The personality factors at play of how someone goes unchecked
for so long and how did they get away with this?
How can they be in these positions of power for
so long. Definitely are certain personality types. History onic personality
traits isn't something we talked about, but people in Hollywood
that are very sexualized or very showy or very tension seeking,
(31:12):
or just like that's how they get their needs met
being beautiful. It can be problematic, right, that's you people
can start to use that to get their needs met
and it can eventually be a problem in your relationships.
And that's what a personality disorder is, like a number
of ways that you're coping with things that turns out
(31:33):
to be maladaptive. So I'm fascinated with how.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
This will go with Blake Lively.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
And there may be reasons why you wouldn't want that
to go to trial because it is going to reveal
so much more about yourself than maybe you were ever
prepared to reveal. Like we all have a personal side
of ourselves. We all have things, so we just wouldn't
want to be on trial.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Well, I don't know if she anticipated that he would
have all of this evidence. I mean, how could she not?
Though he was the director, his production company made the movie.
Of course he has access to raw footage. And also
again it's like your text messages are really going to
be out there and not could be very embarrassing. I
(32:22):
mean I feel like just quickly jumping into Karen Reid
after I watched that trial and they basically disclosed all
of these text messages that she I guess we're exchanging
with this atf agent Brian Hagen's and it was so cringey.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
I felt so.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Just odd and I was like, oh my gosh, imagine
someone goes through my best message and it's just something
that you're like, Wow, I never thought about this. Yeah,
it's weird. And so I've always taken this stance. I
shouldn't say always, but now more than ever, I'm kind
of like, don't text anything that you wouldn't want a
judge to read out loud or maybe your family to see,
(33:04):
because this sucks.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
So Blake Lively is, Yeah, she might not want.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
All of her text messages between you know her and
Justin Baldoni revealed no.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
And Karen Reid did you know? She went on the
internet and was googling things. I think she was googling
like how long till someone.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Ow Jennifer McCabe.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
But when John didn't come home, Karen called two of
his friends.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
She didn't even really know them that well.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
She had to get one of their numbers, Jen's number
from John's niece, and they went looking for John, and
you know, they ended up finding him or Karen spotted
him first when he was lying in front of thirty
four fair Review. And it's really sad because he died
of blunt force trauma to the head in hypothermia, and
he could have been saved if somebody would have found
(33:55):
him lying there, but nobody saw him go into the
house into thirty four fair of view. Yet nobody saw
him lying out in the colds, but they did see
Karen outside just sitting there with her light on, just
waiting for him to go in the house. And so
this whole thing doesn't make sense. But when she finally
had a defense and they were able to subpoena certain
phone records, they saw that this woman, Jen McCabe, allegedly
(34:18):
googled hoss long it was a typo how long to
die in the cold at two twenty seven am and
then she deleted the search. And now Jen and the
state they have their experts saying that that search was
actually made between six and seven am, and it was
because when they found John's body, Karen said, how quick
(34:39):
google how long to die in the cold. And so
it's also interesting because the state generally looks to celebrate
for this data, but in this instance, they're saying, don't
listen this cellbright. They're not correct, our experts correct. So
the Karen retrial, in my opinion, is hands down a
battle of the experts because nobody knows what the hell
to make sense of anything.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Wow, So is she guilty or innocent?
Speaker 3 (35:05):
For me, I'm fine saying the way I feel. I
do feel like it's a couple things. I think that
they're charging her with murder, second degree murder, that is
such an overreach.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
This woman is not a murderer.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
You hear these vicious voicemails that she leaves him when
he didn't come home, She called him over fifty times,
and this is supposedly after she angrily ran him over
with her car. The defense experts, and they weren't even
the defense experts, they were the FEDS crash reconstructionists, and
they were doctors of physics. They kind of said that
(35:41):
she would have had to been a NASCAR driver to
go from zero to forty miles an hour in four
seconds to back over him and kill him. So, but again,
this is what the defense is saying. So I think
that this case has so much reasonable doubt here that
it's tough explanation would be, yeah, she accidentally hit him
(36:03):
and ran over him, but I following the trial, I'm
just not so sure that happened.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Oh my gosh, you have the front row seat to
the best cases. I'm honestly a little bit jealous, and
I'm like, what, I'm fascinated by it. So you're taking
in all this information, So I'll have to keep calling
you and getting together just so I can get the
latest on all these cases.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
It's hard to keep up with all them.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
It's so hard, and I really do try to see
both sides of everything, because if you don't, then you
know what's the point here. So again, Karen Reid is
a tough one, but I don't see how she's a murderer.
I don't think that makes any sense. And I think
that what they've done here, it's like Officer John O'Keeffe.
He's a police officer, and the investigation into his death
(36:52):
was not good. It was not an investigation that you
should do for one of your own, for one of
your brothers in blue. So the whole thing has kind
of been a disgrace here.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Wow, Wow, it's heartbreaking, And yeah, thank you for giving
me an update on all those cases. Well, my head
is spinning, so I know you do have to go here,
But I why should I go watch next? Because you've
been involved in so many shows right now and podcasts?
Speaker 2 (37:20):
What do I need to watch?
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Tell people what we need to go watch on our
playlist here?
Speaker 3 (37:25):
Well, I was going to say, I believe I don't
know what the date is for This Thursday on the
CW at nine pm, I will be on a show
called Crime Nation, and I covered this horrible case out
of Kansas, the Kansas Mom's Killings, and I have done
(37:45):
numerous podcasts on that. You can look at my playlists
on Pop Crime TV. But we'll be covering the case
on that show and it's unadjudicated still, so these women
desperately need justice, and I think more people should know
about that story. So watch that one this Thursday at
nine pm on the CW. Okay, thank you, thank you
(38:06):
so much for joining me today. I love talking to
you and can't wait to connect.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
With you again. Me too, Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Thank you for listening to Killer Psychologist. To watch full
video episodes or if you want to interact with me,
you can find Killer Psychologist on YouTube. You can also
get notified of new episodes by signing up in my
stand store now. If you want to work with me,
you can book a console. My website is psychologydoctor dot com.
(38:41):
That's psychologydr dot com.
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