63 - A True Crime Survival Story

Azadeh Atzberger’s life isn’t just a story of survival—it’s a war story. Born into chaos in wartime Iran, she fled as a refugee and endured sexual, physical, and emotional abuse that would’ve broken most people. To escape the relentless pain, she turned to food, drugs, and alcohol—numbing the past in the only way she knew how.

But instead of letting her suffering define her, she fought back.

Today, Azadeh is a globally recognized advocate for trauma recovery. Through her groundbreaking program, The 12 Steps for Narcissistic Abuse Recovery, she helps others escape the grip of abuse and addiction.

Her journey echoes the insight of Viktor Frankl, the Holocaust survivor and psychiatrist who believed it’s not suffering that destroys us—it’s suffering without meaning. Azadeh is living proof that even in darkness, purpose can be found, and survival is only the beginning.

This episode is a psychological exploration of trauma, resilience, and what it takes to reclaim a life stolen by abuse.

We explore:

• How Azadeh found meaning in her suffering—and how that shaped her survival
• Her path to reclaiming control after war, abuse, and addiction
• How The 12 Steps for Narcissistic Abuse Recovery became her purpose
• What survivors can learn from her transformation

Prepare for a gripping conversation that blends forensic psychology, true crime, and the raw truth of post-traumatic growth.

🔗 Learn more about Azadeh and her work:

• Website: https://finallyfreelife.com
• Instagram: @breakfree_riseandbuild
• Programs: 12 Steps for Narcissistic Abuse Recovery

Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Killer Psychologist
02:11 Survivor Stories: From Victim to Advocate
03:45 Childhood Trauma: Growing Up in Violence
06:04 Family Dynamics: The Impact of a Narcissistic Parent
10:06 The Journey of Healing: Overcoming Addiction and Abuse
12:11 Finding Meaning in Suffering: Lessons from Trauma
14:08 The Importance of Deep Healing: Breaking the Cycle
17:34 Defining Moments: Choosing to Heal or Return
20:45 Creating a Support System: The Role of Community
22:41 The 12 Steps for Narcissistic Abuse Recovery
25:12 Cognitive Dissonance: Understanding the Mind's Tricks
30:14 Emotional Boundaries: Protecting Yourself After Abuse
37:58 Building Your Inner Home
44:38 The Dangers of Dating in Vulnerability
49:23 Confronting the Past: Healing from Abuse
01:00:49 Emotional Intelligence and Resilience


Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/killer-psychologist--6020549/support.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Killer Psychologist. I'm Dana Anderson, a forensic psychologist
and your host of the show. Killer Psychologist is for
true crime fanatics and anyone intrigued with the dark side
of psychology.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to Killer Psychologists, where true crime meets forensic psychology.
We've dissected the darkest corners of the human mind, analyze
serial killers, and exposed terrifying truths behind brutal crimes.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
But let's be honest, true crime glorifies those monsters. They
get the headlines, the documentaries. The fan clubs today were
flipping the script. What about survivors, the ones who lived
through absolute hell but didn't become the villain? What happens

(00:57):
to the people who endure prolific abuse, trauma, and even
war but don't end up on the FBI's Most Wanted
list as a day. That's where you come in. You
didn't just survive a nightmare, you were born into one.
Your story reads like true crime, except you're the one

(01:20):
that made it out alive. Somehow you rewired your brain,
rewrote your story, and turned your past into power. So
that's what I want to explore today. How do you
win when you've been dealt a losing hand. How do

(01:42):
you go from victim to globally recognized advocate for trauma recovery.
You not only saved yourself, but you've helped countless people
break free from abuse and addiction through your program Steps
for Narcissistic Abuse Recovery. So survival's one thing, transformation is another.

(02:09):
As ad A.

Speaker 3 (02:09):
Welcome, Thank you so much, doctor Anderson. It is an
honor and privilege to be here with you today. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
So tell me about your journey starting from the beginning.
I know you've accomplished so much. And we already got
together a couple months ago and we're talking and we
couldn't stop talking. And there's such a connection there of
like girl power. We've both been through things and here
we are. And so I love the story of a

(02:40):
transformation and a survivor. I feel like people need to
hear that. People want to be inspired. Nobody likes to
hear the story of a victim, in my experience, but
they love to hear the empowerment story of survivor. How
did you do it? That's what people want to know
because there's so many people out there that are listening

(03:01):
and women they want to know they're going through it
right now, and I know that because they message me
on social media and a lot of them are in
these complex relationships where there is abuse and they're trying
to get untangled and find themselves. And that's why I
really want to encourage people to follow you and connect

(03:23):
with your content because it is inspiring. And I know
I got a little sneak peek with your journey, but
I would love to hear from you about your story,
how you came just before you even came to America,
like growing up in wartime as a child, Let's maybe

(03:43):
start there.

Speaker 3 (03:45):
Absolutely, absolutely, thank you. I'm sure you're familiar with the
brain evolving and building new patterns from the age one
to seven. From those years, I was born into violence.
I was born with a riot right outside my house.

(04:05):
I remember my mom telling me. I'd go, Mom, what
are they doing out there? What's going on? And for
her thought process of her protection of me, she would
tell me that they're just having a party, They're just
having a good time. I didn't know that us getting
in the car and trying to drive to the store

(04:26):
to get milk and people falling on our cars and
fighting to the right of us or others trying to
open the door was Mayhem. She was telling me it
was just a party and she was trying to get
me calmed down. So I was groomed into riots and
violence from the actual beginning of my life. I remember

(04:50):
in Iran the people that like homeless. Here we see
homeless asking for money. In Iran, the homeless approach it differently.
They literally put a whole veil their woman put a
whole veil over their whole body and face, and come
with a big, huge bucket and a spoon and they
knock on your door and they open it. They just

(05:11):
bang on that big soup cooker pot. They just bang
on it with themselves covered in shame. And I remember
the little girl opening the door and seeing her and
she's banging on this thing. What she's saying is give
me rice or give me potato, because she's homeless and
needs money. But that was my very first one on

(05:32):
one traumatic experience. Scary. I can't see her face, I
can't I don't know what she's saying except banging on
this thing is basically saying, give me rice, give me potato.
That's how I remember it as six years old and

(05:53):
just running from the door all the way to the
other side of the house and hiding, not knowing what
is going on. Who is she? What does she want?
Why she like this traumatic?

Speaker 1 (06:04):
What was your family situation like at home?

Speaker 3 (06:07):
Well, my father is a narcissist, one hundred percent, full
blown covert narcissist. He's also a psychologist. Oh no, No,
I knew that would get you excited. I don't. I
guess I didn't share that with you on our last
time we hung out. But yeah, he's a full blown

(06:27):
in fact, I would say sociopath.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
Really well, wow, what in a position of power and authority?
So exactly did he become a psychologist later in life
or was that your childhood? Did you know him to
be a psychologist when you were younger?

Speaker 3 (06:47):
He was a psychologist ever since I was born, so
he got his education before. And that's the thing about
these coverts. They always are the victim, and they're sad,
and they're always got pain, and they always need a
rescuer and they always need someone to do it for them,

(07:08):
be there for them. But then the abuse that we
don't see, the covert abuse, under the radar abuse was
that I never had a father. I never had someone
to advocate for me. I never had someone to protect me.
And at the same time, he was not a husband
to my mom, so my mom was really like my
mom and dad. And it took me decades to decode

(07:32):
that because he wouldn't do anything. He didn't yell, he
didn't scream, He just sat there, although through my addiction,
when my addiction escalated, he snapped and chased me around
the house with a fist, and he abused me in
much deeper ways. And anyways, back to my childhood, abuse

(07:55):
was like my upbringing. I went to school, I was
bullied because I was Persian and we were during a war,
so we escaped to United States. But then I'm now
being bullied. So I went from riots, violence to a
new country to being bullied. And I was bullied all

(08:18):
the way through high school. I mean, Dana, I remember
this is sad as a little girl, but I remember
eating lunch in the bathroom by myself, pretending to put
on eyeliner so that the girls that came in would
think that I'm just fitting on makeup, not really hiding

(08:39):
from the bully. So I would put on that same
eyeliner over and over again because I was hiding from
the girl that was bullying me, throwing me against lockers
as a way. But you know what, now that I
look back, I really was learning how to survive and
strategize a way to protect myself while the beast was

(09:01):
going on. And I grew in that aspect Ultimately, the
psychopath that broke the beer bottle in my face and
beat me up several times and filmed our sex times
and other women's sex times, I ultimately learned how to

(09:22):
leave and strategize the unbelievable perspective of a way out
that normally people won't think of, Like you don't think
about how to leave, except you just think I'm just
gonna leave, I'm gonna break up, I'm gonna leave. But
I found a strategic, brilliant path to leave without getting

(09:44):
harmed and him not being able to find me ultimately.
And so it's sad and it's unfortunate that being under
these really really dark situations that we have to navigate
and figure out a way out. I know you can
relate to that on some level. Yeah, I escaped and

(10:08):
decided I left everybody. I left the family, the Persian community.
I was shunned anyway, because I have a voice. I
got sober and I started to get therapists through nervous
system healing. I've always had some kind of support or help.
To this day, I still have that one or two

(10:30):
people that guidn't help me. But but but Dana, I
had to go and heal internally, and it took me. Well,
it's been I've been on the recovery journey twenty three years,
but two years out of that I faced all the
internal wounds of my abuser. I had to purge out

(10:52):
the violations that I had absorbed, which meant going into
those pockets and reliving not over and over again, but
reliving those moments of abuse and purging out the tears
and the violence and the abuse so that I could
come back through the flooding of tears, so I could

(11:13):
come back into a place of self compassion and self protection.
My brain was rewired through the flooding and the tears
and reliving those experiences so that I could come back
in that emotional pain and heal myself. So it's permanent recovery.

(11:33):
It really is permanent recovery. It's not just a study
or a memorization. It becomes permanent when we heal that way,
Dark Knight of the Soul.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
Wow, this reminds me of Victor Frankel's book. He wrote
Man's Search for Meaning, And he was a psychiatrist and
he survived the Holocaust, and so he wrote a book
while he was surviving thet He didn't really think he

(12:03):
who knew if you were going to survive? Right, So
he's writing this book and he wrote that suffering itself
is not what destroys us, but it's belief that suffering
has no purpose. So he reclaimed his power. And his
book is pretty inspirational. It's about finding meaning in your life,

(12:25):
surviving after the suffering and the abuse. And it just
reminded me of that. So how do you reclaim your
life and regain power after trauma? Like how you know
what choices lead to that transformation? And so I think
so many people I don't hear them get to the

(12:47):
depth that you have gotten to getting in touch with
your trauma side. I find a lot of people can
be very superficial about just moving on and healing or
really getting down to the horror of things you've encountered
and getting raw with it. And my experience hearing people's

(13:11):
stories of survival. I would say the most successful ones
are people that get in there and do the dirty work,
expose it all, have a realistic it happened, all of it.
Talking about sexual abuse, I'm talking about all the violence
or horrible things, getting in touch with the reality of
it that it happened, getting out it, not being in denial.

(13:33):
So the worst outcomes I see are people that actually
just continue to deny it and suppress it or lie
about it or it changes. This is really unhealthy. So
that's why I think we connected when we met. You
were just so outspoken about it. And it's not too

(13:54):
often where people will really even talk about sexual abuse.
The rally is most people will go to the grave
with it and not ever talk about it ever, which
is a death sentence in my opinion.

Speaker 3 (14:08):
Oh absolutely, And most relapses and overdoses are if you
did deep enough. It's not just that they're addicts. They're
not just addicts. They're addicts because of an unhealed trauma,
and it's usually sexual abuse. And that's why I've been
able to stay sober twenty three years off the meth
and alcohols because I went in, I did the deep dive.

(14:29):
I had to look no longer at the psychopath, but
look at me how even though he kidnapped me for
four days in his house, doing drugs in front of me,
not giving me drugs, and I was pregnant by him
when he had swore up and down that he's had
a issectomy, cannot get me pregnant. Now he accomplished it,

(14:51):
and he was laughing at how I was pregnant, and
I said that I was going to go and not
have this baby. So he decided to kidnap me in
the house and keep me house, hide the keys and
the purse for me while I was withdrawing from drugs,
while he's doing drugs in front of me. I had
to look at after I did escape that kidnapping situation,

(15:13):
he was throwing fire logs at me. I went and
terminated the pregnancy, but I still went back to him.
I had to look at that. That was the pivotal point.
I had to look at the trauma bond, the Stockholm syndrome,
the thing in me that was birthed from childhood from
my father, of all those kinds of abuse, and how

(15:36):
to relive that and break it and weep. And you're
talking about books one of my favorite books besides my own,
all of mine, I mean, I have four so you
can look at all, and they're all about narcissists. But
the one that really hit me is Oh God. It's
called Complex Trauma by Peter Peter Anyway, it's complex trauma,

(15:59):
and it talks about how we need to go through
the enormous grief of our lost childhood and our enormous
pain of flooding. And I flooded. I literally cried my
soul out for like two years over all of this.

(16:20):
But in the meats of that pain, I could feel
myself developing organically, more self protection, more self compassion, beautifying
in that experience where you're right, we're taught, it happened.

(16:40):
Move on, Chop chop, don't waste another minute. Let it go,
move on. But that wound is going to be calling
out to another predator. That wound is it's like call,
it calls and the predator hears. So that's why we
keep attracting another one with another name, you know what
I'm saying. And I see shaking your head like it's

(17:01):
like it's your wound is going to call out to
the predator unless you healed to no longer be a prey.
We got to stop being a prey. And how do
we stop being a prey? You got to do the
inner work. Got to heal that shit. You have to
or I know, for me, if I didn't, I'd be
either in prison for murder, or I would be on
the streets homeless, putting needles in my arms, or I

(17:24):
would be with no teeth with someone beating the shit
out of me constantly. That was my legacy. If I
didn't heal those three things, and maybe all of them
in one.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
And when was that moment where you knew you needed
to heal or get out so either you were gonna
kill someone or just you know, overdose to die end
up in prison, Like the outcomes weren't good. You somehow
said you took some thought in your head before you
took the next step, Like what was that defining moment?

Speaker 3 (17:56):
Yeah, you know what, Dana, I realized I can't trust myself.
At that moment, I either will go back to him
or the drugs, watching myself continually go back to him
after everything he had done. I had to go away.
I found. I swear it was like Divine God showed

(18:16):
me a house to go to for free with a
bunch of loving people. Nobody knew where it was, nobody
knew who it was. But it was this divine situation
where I was able to go to a house with
other people trying to get sober again. They didn't care
that I was Persian and that there was a revolution,

(18:38):
They didn't care about any of that. They just wanted
to love me. And I asked them for help to
help me stay sober and not contact the guy, and
they did, but I still contacted him, and I still
had him come to visiting hours, and the counselor there
or the leader there, she was like, oh the day
is this who I think it is? I go, yeah,

(18:59):
she goes, he needs to leave right now, or you
have to leave with him, And in that moment, I
was like to see it's life or death. I told
him to leave, and he left, and then I saw
him again. But that was through I think I shared
with you. That was through doing my internship for drug
and alcohol counseling where he was sitting right there and
I ran into him two years later or a year
and a half later. But that's how I left. I

(19:22):
needed outside help, and lots of it because on my own.
Everything in me was to go back to him and
the drugs period. So I got help. I got a
lot of help. Ninety days away from my family, the streets, him, drugs, everything,
ninety days where I just cooked and shared chores and

(19:44):
we prayed and we had support groups and we talked.
And that ninety days gave me a foundation to continually
go on this path of recovery and healing and so on.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
That's it. I was just talking with my friend Eva
before we started this podcast today, and she was trying
to talk to one of her friends about leaving and
she just keeps going back and back, and I go,
you got to sever the tie. Cut it off. You
do a blackout, just like a drug addict. Not even
a little bit of use, not even a little bit
of hit, No no alcohol, no sip, no nothing, total done.

(20:24):
Cut them off. And you'll need help with that to
help you not go back, or if you have the
thought of going back, there's someone that's going to hold
you accountable. And so if you leave and you're in
a sound like maybe it was a domestic violence shelter place, Okay,

(20:45):
so those places, Yeah, it's true. If you have contact,
you can get kicked out. So once you enter a
program like that or DV shelter, one of the rules
are is no contact. But you want to have a
plan just in case you think you might be a
weakness for you. They're going to call, they're going to text,

(21:06):
or whatever. They can help you. They can take your phone,
who block is number and all that stuff, and you
need to have a plan because it will be enticing.
But what's the plan? So you need support to basically
rewire your brain and dethaw from all the abuse and trauma,

(21:27):
get your thinking straight, and you're going to need an
extended period of time. It can take up to even
a year of justing to be I mean it can
take years and years, but ninety days like you do
in a shelter can be a good amount of time
to help you stabilize and maybe move out from there.

(21:51):
Shelters used to only have thirty days, and I mean
thirty days there's solely and then what where do you go?

Speaker 3 (22:02):
I mean, yeah, yeah, I think in thirty days you're
still in the emotional dependency of the abuser and the
obsessive thoughts, so it's easy to want to go back
to him to stop all that.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
Yeah, it's addicting, it's like a drug. It's just how
do you reclaim your self worth, your self esteem, your
value after that?

Speaker 2 (22:22):
Right?

Speaker 4 (22:23):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (22:24):
Right?

Speaker 1 (22:24):
What are the steps? Somehow you've come up with writing
your own book on the twelve Steps for a Narcissistic
Abuse Recovery. I think it's interesting that it's like the
twelve Steps. Yeah, maybe you can share a little bit
about that. Maybe it goes hand in hand because you're
recovering a lot of times people are recovering from drugs
and abuse at the same time. That's a lot to

(22:46):
dethaal from.

Speaker 3 (22:48):
Right. It's amazing how much power we can have, as
you know, because I know your story, when we're determined.
Because when we're determined, we get this superpower to rise
and to go. But the Twelve Step Workbook, I got
permission from the twelve Step community to tailor it to

(23:13):
truly the Dark Knight of the Soul. I created this
for people that cannot afford a therapist, a doctor, a coach,
a mentor anything. And if they can purchase this on
Amazon and go through the workbook, I promise you will
activate those puss pockets of pain. And if you sit

(23:35):
through it and go through it. You will come out healed,
not completely healed. You will have a transformation. You will
have a connection to yourself that you couldn't get by
just thought alone and videos alone. I mean, it's my journey,
so I do activate questions and writing that will up

(24:00):
root the trauma. That's why I created that. But I
also have a book Adult Children of Narcissistic Abuse, which
I would caution to read that with trigger warnings because
it is my story and it does talk a lot
about parental narcissm. And so most of the people I

(24:20):
talk to or work with have had the issue started
with parents, So you can also look at that as
a way to identify or resonate with. But that twelve
step work book is for people that I really create
that for people because when they're leaving abusive relationships, they're like,

(24:42):
have no money or they're addicted to and twenty bucks
is kind of easy to come up with. To get
the workbook and go through it yourself. I mean, with trauma,
you should probably do it with someone else, someone specialist,
a therapist, a doctor, somebody that's versed in the these
dynamics like you. But if you just can't but you

(25:04):
are stuck in the pain body. This is a way
to transcend it by doing the writing and the prompting
of the questions.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
So this is a book that they should be giving
out at the domestic violence shelters.

Speaker 3 (25:17):
Yes, I agree. I actually have a therapist right now
taking a whole group through the workbook, and I hope
to see it grow. I mean because it's really my
personal DNA of how to recognize because we have so
much cognitive dissonance, especially with the covert style abusers, it's

(25:40):
so hard to pinpoint. And that's where I got stuck.
A lot is in the rumination and the self doubt
and the rationalizations. So these questions will really break it down.
It'll really separate you with you. It'll separate reality with
what you want to think it is. It'll break it

(26:01):
down for you so that you can start working on
the healing versus is it this or is it that?
Is it this? Or is it that? Is it this
or is it that? You know? With covert abuse, the
cognitive dissonance is louder versus someone that's beating the shit
out of me. I can see the abuse, but the
covert way, it's harder to pinpoint. So I've just seen

(26:24):
so many people thirty years, forty years in these dynamics
and still not sure or still don't know or still questioning,
so that this is a good way to break it
down to reality.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
And I noticed you said cognitive dissonance, which is you
can explain a little bit more about that. But when
I think about it, when you're exposed to two polar
opposite things, I think it's easier to change your belief
maybe about the abuse, than it is to change your behavior.

(26:58):
So you could actually just believe, oh, he's fine, everything's good,
because it takes to believe what's actually happening in the
relationship requires you to respond. You have to take action,
you have to change your behavior. Women can just say
everything's fine when it's not. But they're just lying to themselves.
But like it's like a mind fuck. People brainwash themselves

(27:21):
on purpose to they they remain frozen. So they're just
sitting there frozen. But to come the reality of what's
house how much your life's in danger, or how terrible
thebuse is you action, leave, run out the door.

Speaker 3 (27:39):
Right, exit, go like yeah, you're right, that's really good.
You said it perfect. The body is frozen, it's paralyzed,
it's frozen.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
And so I think the women for men whoever. You're
at the domestic violence shelter and you've made the step,
but your mind can go back and play tricks on you,
just to change the belief, just that thought that he
does love me. It's fine. Well, it wasn't that bad.
It's just those thoughts entering. So those thoughts may seem

(28:13):
benign like because it's just a thought and it just
entered your head. There's no crime, there's no thought police
going unfortunately, it just goes in your head like you're thinking,
remember when they were nice to you and they brought
you flowers and you're all this everything was good and
it's fine, and then you it feels good to think
of all the things that were and had been. But
the danger is behind that. And so having that accountability

(28:39):
when you start thinking these thoughts and they're percolating because
you're it may lead to you leaving or returning to them.
So having accountability, having a game plan every single day
for someone to check on your thoughts. Oh I'm and
so you can have your not your drug dealer on

(29:00):
out so right, because you're like you know when you're
feeling those thoughts you're feeling now you're going to call
someone to get help. But getting a therapist just like
you have an AA sponsor. Yeah, you tell them your
thoughts before you go, use before you leave, before you go.
So it's having someone hold you accountable and having a

(29:22):
safety plan when those thoughts start coming back that those
are very dangerous. You need to talk about it. And
I know you do the coaching and you help people,
so it's talking about that. Oh my god, Yeah, that's
what the magic happens. So then you start transforming their
thoughts because those thoughts, as we know cognitive we have

(29:43):
real therapy, thoughts leave actions.

Speaker 3 (29:45):
Yes they do. And it's so good that you're saying this.
This is how I know you've done the work. I
have that in my work because a tool tell on yourself,
Tell on yourself. That's a tool to tell on yourself
because you're right, those thoughts in thirty seconds, it's gonna
determine which way you're gonna go thirty seconds, especially with

(30:07):
I think actually being a former drug addict and trauma
bonded to my abuser, I think that I gotta tell you.
I think the trauma. Bond was stronger than the drugs
I do. And some people are like, well, I don't know.
I was very sure. Yeah, I was a math addict.
Yeah it was. I wanted him more than I wanted

(30:32):
the drugs. But the drugs was great too, but I
wanted him. So anyway, back to what you're saying, tell
on yourself, you guys, it's the best thing you can do.
And there's no shame in it. All of us, all
of us that have been in these dynamics, missed the abuser.
We do. It's part of it. We missed the abuser
because it's part of the withdrawal of leaving the abuser.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
It's withdrawal because if you were getting you know, love
or comfort, or sex, or attention or adoration, you're getting serotonin,
you're getting all these feel good chemicals, like those are
real things. You're getting that drip feels good, and then
you get it not only taken away. You don't get
any of that. You get fear and you know you're

(31:17):
alone and you're sad or you're crying, all the things,
you're feeling terrible. You're going through with draws, so you
don't get any of that. So it's important during that
time you have someone come in and help you, and
therapy is that time to nurture you and build you
back up, so you don't feel like the way to

(31:38):
stop the pain is to just go back.

Speaker 3 (31:42):
And it's so refreshing that we can laugh about it
now because in that moment, you are at the peak,
the highest peak of pain, constantly, constant, high peak pain period.
I mean, that's how it was, I remember it, And

(32:03):
so you want it's natural for us to want to
stop the pain, and our brain is constantly telling us
going back to him will do it or her, depending
on you know, whoever, if you're a guy or a
man or woman, and so telling on yourself and sit
through the pain, sit through the pain. You're gonna have pain.

(32:27):
It's not a normal breakup. Even normal breakups are painful.
This is not a normal breakup, not even I mean,
I'm surprised if you can even work, I mean, if
you can even make meals and good lord, you know.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
Well, let's talk about how people with narcissistic traits. It's
so much different than a regular breakup. So narcissists are
always feeling what isn't their best interests? Not for you.
So if you leave, they may try to lure and
hunt you down and get you back because it's self
serving for them. But they also punitive, retaliatory, or it

(33:08):
could be sadistic or punish you. The relationship for them
was just transactional, self serving to them, and so they'll
come for you when they need you need you for them,
but it has nothing to do with you. They don't
care about your feelings. It's only if they can manipulate
your feelings because it works for them. So just know
it's all a manipulation ploy to get you back. So

(33:30):
if they're giving you a compliment, they're love bombing you.
They're giving you all this. You got to know what's
behind that. They're going to bring you back, but it's
only for them, So the compliments are nothing. And just
be aware when the compliments, don't accept them. So we're
not accepting compliments at this time, like go away even

(33:50):
one compliment. You don't want to be in such a
low emotional state where you're like needing just the tiny
little to you know, they're gonna give you these breadcrumbs
to lead you back to them, telling you things heelp.
You don't want to be that low on gas. Right,
you're out of gas.

Speaker 3 (34:08):
Right, You're so right. I love what you just said.
The compliments and the gifts they're deathing. Don't read into it,
don't even look at it. Abusers don't always abuse. They
know when to abuse and when. They are always navigated
by your emotions. When you're down, they're gonna love bomb.

(34:29):
When you're up, they're gonna break you down. The compliments
is really a bait.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
It is, and you have to know you want to
be emotionally well. I don't need any compliments. I don't
ever need them. I don't care what you think of me.
I wasn't looking for any compliment. I'm high value. I
don't need you to tell me anything. I don't need you.
You don't want to be an emotional deficit.

Speaker 3 (34:55):
Ooo. That's what it is, emotional deposit. That is good,
my friend. And you know what, when you are whole
connected to your values and have standards, when someone's coming
in and constantly complimenting you, you're going to start to

(35:16):
think suspiciously of them versus sucking it up.

Speaker 1 (35:22):
And you should be suspicious of anyone overly compliments. It's
not natural or like the first time someone meets you
and they just pour out these compliments. It's typically a
red flag or people with narcissism because they're they're looking
for how it's going to come back on them. So

(35:43):
it does work for them. They give you a compliment,
but they're luring you in. So you always want to
be aware of that. But you never want to be
in a deficit emotionally. So I know you love talking
about boundaries, and I love talking about emotional boundaries because
you want to be you know, emotionally intelligent is also
being aware of your own emotions and understanding they're your own,

(36:06):
how they affect you, and being aware of other people's
emotions also and reading them.

Speaker 3 (36:13):
Very good, very good, so good, so good. I'm actually
surprised at how much this is not talked about. Emotional boundaries.
I'm actually surprised around this. So it's really high level maturity.
It's really self protection. It's really protecting your peace, but

(36:37):
also evolving to a place that feels just so good internally.
Emotional boundaries, Yeah, it's the new ITQ.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
Yeah, yeah, So emotional boundaries. All the boundaries are important.
But when you recognize your own emotions and how you're
feeling or if you're an emotional deficit and you're feeling
a certain way. So I could recognize I'm in a
low mood or I'm sad, i feel low self esteem,
I was going through a breakup. I can recognize that

(37:12):
within myself also recognize I'm not emotionally available. I shouldn't.
It's not a good time for me to be on
a dating app. It's not a good time for I'm
to be entering a new relationship. I can recognize that
that's a vulnerable time for me. And there are times
that you shouldn't be available today or enter a new

(37:34):
relationship because you're seeking fulfillment for yourself because you're in
a deficit and you're looking for someone to feel fulfill you.
And that's a dangerous time because there always be someone
out there to give you that time and attention, but
you don't want to be doing When you ride Nonny.

Speaker 3 (37:52):
Oh that's just so good. That is so good. This
is so good.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
When you're riding Nonny, you know, then you're just waiting
for someone to take you home because you ran out
of gas.

Speaker 3 (38:05):
Yeah, so you're back in victim and trying to look
for a rescuer. I heard somebody on a podcast, doctor Dana,
talk about if you don't build your home, your internal home,
you start building it in others and when they leave
or discard, or they just move on. Let's say it's

(38:29):
not even abuse, they just move on your emptiness.

Speaker 1 (38:34):
That's like all your money in an RV and they
just roll off.

Speaker 3 (38:37):
Rah exactly, exactly. Being connected to my inner world and
honoring my emotions. I'm not saying I got it perfect,
and I'm not saying I get it down. But anytime
I fall or I'm in pain, or any time my
biggest lesson, I'll just say the past three years has

(38:57):
been just this what we're talking about, because I can
or have gone from a deficit. I have a beautiful husband,
we've been married sixteen years, fifteen years together sixteen but
I've done it with girlfriends I'm in pain, I'm in pain,
you know, emotionally rescue me. And then when they're not
there and they move on or do something else and

(39:20):
I don't have it, then I'm back in my emptiness.
So I got to build my own inside house, my house,
my inner house.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
I don't need no emotional rescuing, So emotionally you can
build yourself back up and find yourself and do the
work and not need anyone else. You don't want to
be in a position of like lacking or needing or

(39:54):
desperation or getting that fix of attention. I always recommend
people don't go out. You don't need to be going
to the club or going out when you're desperate. It's
a very dangerous time to get hooked up with a person.
You're totally vulnerable, and it's the number one thing I

(40:16):
see people do as soon as I'm just feeling down
in the duns, like downloading some app. You know, I'm
telling you what that would be not the time to
be doing that. I'm not on any dating apps, by
the way, good for you. Look I know what's out there.

Speaker 3 (40:41):
Oh my god, it's either unhealthy, toxic, or narcissist.

Speaker 1 (40:46):
We got the guys stand next to the car or
the kids sitting in their lap because they're looking for
a mom.

Speaker 4 (40:53):
And the worst one is the prison picks. You're like,
is that bars behind you? And you wouldn't believe it,
but that's a yes. Those dudes get cell phones in
prison and they're getting dating apps and lovers. Have you
seen the ones with the guy in the hospital bed.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
No, okay, well wow right, these are all true stories.
I'm just telling you. Even people i've helped with restraining
order getting to a safe place, doing therapy and then
they show me a picture of their X in a
hospital bed in a hospital gown, making a fake story

(41:35):
about cancer, trying to seek attention, and you know the
whole game. They're an addict. They're gonna Robbie blind. It's
a game, so just don't fall for it. So you
never want to be vulnerable like these people are available.
They're very available, especially the ones that get out of prison.

(41:55):
They've never been so available.

Speaker 3 (41:59):
Exactly, exactly.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
Oh wow, they don't have a job exactly.

Speaker 3 (42:06):
They have a trash bag with their clothes. That's pretty funny.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
They're like, move in so quickly. They're like what you
got girl? Where are you living?

Speaker 3 (42:17):
Right? And I see a lot of women go for
those guys because they're covered in tattoos or they worked
out for five years in prison. And I think I'm
telling you, girlfriend, if I can leave you with anything,
looks does not bring shit to the table. It brings

(42:38):
nothing to the table when you smell them go number two. Sorry,
getting detailed here, you're gonna lose all that you want.
Someone loyal, someone that's sincere, someone that has good ethics
and morals. And I'm not saying it's easy to find
my husband. I found him when I was thirty seven

(43:01):
years old and I was seeking safety and I was
not I'm just gonna get totally transparent here about my marriage.
The first year, I was like, he's boring, He's not
the right guy. I just know it. This is because
my nervous system was not healed yet. This he's boring,
he's too nice. What does he want? Why is he

(43:22):
so nice? He wants to get a second hotel room
and give me one and tell me here's the key
to your hotel room. I was shocked. I felt rejected,
But at the same time, I was like, maybe this
is a nice guy. This is a guy that actually cares.
Maybe this is a guy that doesn't want one thing
right away. So I had to force myself to accept

(43:47):
unconditional love after the psychopath. I had to. And we're
together and we're best friend. He's my photographers. He brings
a lot to the table, you know. He helps me
edit my book. He's also a survivor of narcissistic abuse.
Men get abused to but I had to.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
I know you said we're going to talk about psychopaths
and eat chocolate. Do you have chocolate able right now?
Are you eating it?

Speaker 3 (44:12):
I know? Howby did you give me chocolate? Did you
hear I have some right here? You can have no,
I'm okay, I'm just kidding, thank you. But yeah, dating
after abuse, don't heal, so then you can energetically match

(44:35):
with the person at the level you're at.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
Yeah, I tell people to heal. I like to say
a year. That time to heal and get in touch
and find yourself again is really important. I see a
problem in society today people chronically dating. They exit one
relationship and just almost immediately go into a new one.

(45:01):
I've never understood that. I have not been that person
ever in my life. I don't find that enjoyable. It's
not for me, but I see it happen far too often.
And then people just entering and exiting relationships repeatedly, and
like just going through so many people, and that's a

(45:23):
really poor boundaries. You know, we can talk about boundaries more,
but like, what kind of emotional deficit are you in
that you have to keep going through people like this,
or even your physical boundaries or your time boundaries. So
my time boundaries and relationship is like you'd have to
qualify to spend time with me, to even get on

(45:43):
a date, you have to get qualified.

Speaker 3 (45:47):
And that's a standard. But I love that it's a standard.
I don't know how women can just throw their bodies
around and I'll have repercussions and a downfall and some
kind of an aftermath that they have to clean up
after that. I don't understand. But Okay, if you don't heal,

(46:09):
you're gonna stay in that same cycle. You're just gonna
until you learn the lesson that you need to heal.
You need to heal, otherwise you're gonna keep repeating the
same patterns. Or or I'll say this, here's what I've seen,
and tell me if you've seen this. I've seen three
things happen. One they attract the same guy, different name.

(46:31):
Maybe it's not the same exact scenarios, but it's abuse,
it's harm, it's pain, it's cheating, it's STDs, it's hit
me in the face all that different name. Or they
completely don't date and call it their picker and walk

(46:51):
around victim.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
Say their picker is broken and yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:55):
Yeah, yeah, they give up on love and avoid and
go anorexic and become a victim. And these are results
of not healing. This is what I've seen. So they
either attract another one or go completely avoidant, not because
they have children, not because they're life or their business,

(47:16):
not because they're in time of healing, not because of
realistic reasons, but because they're just too afraid to go
back out. So they're stuck in their pain body and
they're victimization. Or third, they're in a perpetual cycle and
stuck in grief, constantly weeping like there's no end. They're

(47:38):
just repeating that same cycle over and over and over
and over again. We're supposed to thrive, we're supposed to heal,
we're supposed to pursue our life. We're supposed to tell
our story like you and I in a way that's
not so triggering. My trauma now is really a memory.

(48:00):
I can easily talk about it, where some people would
be like, WHOA, you were kidnapped, WHOA you had a
beer bottle broken in your face? Yeah, twenty three years
twenty four years ago. But I've done the work. So
now it's nothing but a memory. It's not affected by it.
So for whoever's listening, let's take the time and heal.

(48:25):
It's the only way to reclaim your power. Because if
you pretend or try and be somebody else or memorize
words to look like you're powerful, eventually it's gonna come out.
Your unhealed version will eventually assert itself.

Speaker 1 (48:41):
Your unhaled version will show up. That is true. So
I would say it to anybody's listening, like, maybe you
don't want that version to show up, right, then.

Speaker 3 (48:57):
It's a shit show. Then it's a shit show.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
Show up unannounced at some party. It's like whoa, oh
wait that's me.

Speaker 3 (49:04):
Oh yeah, that's me. Right.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
How did you overcome the abuse with your parents? Because
so your condition for this you have a different relationship
with your mom, but your father, who's a psychologist, So yeah,
that's the highest level of manipulation.

Speaker 3 (49:21):
Oh wow, yeah for sure.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
So he's abusive to you. So something about your journey
with that and where you're at now.

Speaker 3 (49:32):
Yeah, I've had brief times of no contact so that
I could heal and face the physical and sexual abuse.
And today he's ninety three years old and although I
confronted him and he denied it, but there was still

(49:55):
healing for me in that because I don't need him
to I was so connected to the truth. I don't
need his feedback. My purpose was just to put it
back on him, give it back to him. So now
he's ninety three years old, sharp as can be, so sharp,
physically declining. But my healing has been through years of

(50:18):
no contact. I didn't just go no contact out of hate.
I really use that time to evolve and grow and
heal and really embrace the fact that I really didn't
have a father. I had an abuser, and even though
the world loves him, especially the Persian community, and so

(50:39):
working on the acceptance of what I didn't have. And
today he's ninety three and I live close to him
now and he's at his you know, physically is falling
a lot, and my mom's aging, so I help because
she's responsible for him, because she's I help her help him,

(51:04):
and I'm okay with it. But the truth is out,
even though he denies it, And my healing has been
the enormous grief of not having a childhood and having
someone that hurt and harmed me and loved the world
and kind of accepting the fact that this is what was.

(51:30):
But Dana, I did a lot of a lot of
grief of what I thought was that wasn't. I did
a lot of grief. I'm talking enormous grief work of
not having a father. And now I have no emotional
attachment to him. I don't care if he It's not

(51:53):
a mean thing. I just it's vacant. There's it's absent.
There's no connection to his wellness or his sickness or
his anything. He's just my mom, though I care about
and so I help her in helping him. And I'm

(52:14):
okay with that. I'm okay with that. My biggest empowering
story has already been established. I wrote books, I healed,
and I married someone. That's beautiful. That's my story. That's
the best version in the highest peak of recovery and

(52:35):
healing I can get with having someone like that is
I didn't relapse. I broke the cycle, and I wrote books,
and I help others, and I accept what happened well
that which was the last phase I couldn't accept or
forgive or any of that. Please, if anybody you go

(52:57):
to for healing, that tells you demands forgiveness right away
is not the person for you. It's a process. You
have to go through the rage and the anger and
the frustration and the feeling that you're not enough, all
those feelings that come with not having a parent and
an abusive parent. So ultimately I've come to a place

(53:17):
of forgiveness and okay, But there's no like I don't
when I see him. I don't really there's nothing there.
I don't feel like a stranger is closer to me
than he is. Because when I confronted him, I did

(53:38):
it with my husband and I and I had him
on speaker.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
How old were you when he began sexually abusing you?

Speaker 3 (53:47):
So the molestation started when I was nine and then
a few more times around eleven.

Speaker 1 (53:57):
Was he a licensed psychologist at the time.

Speaker 3 (54:01):
Yes, he was. When I was going through the healing,
I was thinking about putting him in prison, literally going
you know, creating a whole profile, getting a lawyer, going
through the whole thing. And the reasons I didn't was
because of my mom, because of what it would put

(54:21):
her through.

Speaker 1 (54:22):
And so your mother knew about the abuse.

Speaker 3 (54:25):
Not until I told her, which was two years ago.
I confronted him two years ago. That's how long it
took for me to build the resilience of confronting the abuser.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
Oh, it took that long.

Speaker 3 (54:39):
Because also I'm Persian one hundred percent, like I am Americanized,
but I was born in Iran with a mom and
a dad, so it was the whole cultural thing. If
I could expose him, that means I'm shunned from the
whole culture, which I shunned myself anyway. But I maybe
it was three years ago, but two and a half

(54:59):
three years I broke the truth. I couldn't do it earlier.
My brother died of an overdose six years ago, so
we were going through that.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
Did he abuse your brother?

Speaker 3 (55:12):
I don't think so. I mean abused under the radar, covertly,
but not overtly. I don't think sexually. I don't think so.
But I confronted about two and a half three years ago.
And here's the deal, you guys, whoever's listening dealing with

(55:33):
that stuff, the rage is real. I would highly recommend
if you're going to confront an abuser, you got to
be so clear of your expectations. You have to be
so clear of your strategic plan, like I did it
seven hours away with my husband after all this healing
on speakerphone with my husband holding my hand, like I

(55:57):
wasn't going to do it alone. So you can't just
go and do it because you can retraumatize yourself. You
gotta do the healing first. You got to get to
a place where whatever they do or say is going
to ricochet back onto them because you have built your
inner home and it's not going to affect you. So
you can't just this is not something you just do.

(56:19):
You need to have a hand hold you through it.
You need to walk with this person. It's got to
be strategic, just like a strategic plan to leave. And
if you feel for you, it's important to confront. You
got to be super healed and super strong internally built
resilience around the abuse so that when you confront, you

(56:40):
don't have a backlash or relapse. If you're a recovering
drug addict, alcoholic, you know a lot of people murder.
Why do you think a lot of people are in
prison for murder?

Speaker 1 (56:50):
I hear you, Yeah, yeah, I agree with what you're saying, because, yeah,
you have to be mentally tough and prepared for that
conversation and they may go poorly. You may get rejected,
they may lash out on you. Expect the worst, but
you're so mentally strong and tough. This isn't like that
emotional RV that's driving off you got. Your house is

(57:13):
built on solid foundation. There's like nothing, and you do
want to be emotionally equipped. Yeah, people do murder their
parents and their partners in confrontations, and so when I
talk about emotional intelligence, I make it clear. I've worked

(57:34):
with a lot of people who have committed murder, dozens
of people, and also suicidal people as well. So emotional
intelligence is so important. You don't want to project your
emotions and take out someone else and blame them. Those
are your own emotions. And the sooner people can realize

(57:54):
that your emotions come from you, You produce them, they're
within you, and you can actually control them. And a
lot of people will say, no, this person made me
feel this way, and it's like, well, you don't want
to be in that spot because actually you have control.
And the sooner you realize you're in control, you're in control.

Speaker 3 (58:15):
Yeah, yeah, you certainly don't want.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
Some psychopath pressing the buttons of your emotions. So you
don't want the perception of that my emotions are one
hundred percent me and I can handle anything that comes
my way. I'm one hundred percent in control of how
I respond and if I even am going to be
emotionally evoked, because like you and your father, you confronted him,

(58:42):
I would say that would be a highly volatile position.
You know, anyone wasn't emotionally equipped, you may have a
blowout and be like, oh my god, I'm I kill
myself and like, look what you did to me. So
emotional intelligence is like number one thing. Like if you
feel if you're listening right now and you're feeling like

(59:05):
you're always in a deficit, or you're always feeling like
these other people you're in a relationship, or controlling your emotions,
you got to flip the script and learn to gain
control of your emotions. And it can be taught, and
you can be bulletproof. Where someone in my position, I
go see some dangerous people who say some very mean

(59:26):
things to me. And by the way, it doesn't matter.
They could say anything to me in jail or wherever
I go. It has no effect. They're just words. Or
if they're flattering me, or if they're not like or
they threaten me, it just reveals more about them. It
doesn't tell me more about myself. I already know about myself.

(59:47):
It tells me about you.

Speaker 3 (59:49):
Tell me about you.

Speaker 1 (59:51):
I already know. Right, complimenting me, it's like, and then
if you don't take it the way they want, it'll
turn into a threat. Oh like they will start trying
to push my buttons and manipulate things to gain control.
And it's just I've been here before, right, We've seen
these playout. So people, if you want to get into

(01:00:13):
this career field, you need to be mentally tough, and
you need to be mentally fit, you need to be
mentally well, and people will try to test your boundaries
and you never want to be in that emotional deficit.
So if you find that you are, you need to
replenish yourself right, and that's probably time for self care
or whatever you need. And it's not a good time

(01:00:36):
to enter a new relationship. And so you need to
plan people to hold view accountable so you don't so
you don't go back back into that again.

Speaker 3 (01:00:49):
Yes, yes, And you know when you're talking, I want
to make a point. I can feel your energy when
you say those things. That's also an indicator how I
read people. I can feel their energy when they're talking,

(01:01:09):
if it's really coming from an internal routing or if
it's just words that they're saying. I felt your energy,
especially when you did that look with you know, I
just felt it. I just felt it. Energy speaks, strength speaks.
It just does. And absolutely, do not confront your abuser

(01:01:34):
out of an emotional turbulence. Don't do it. Do it
from a place of strength. And also build resilience around
every outcome, the possibility of every outcome. Build resilience around
all of that, and make sure you are good with
any of those outcomes, and then launch. Even then, I

(01:01:57):
would say, sit with your what your motive is to
do it. My motive was to just give it back
because it wasn't mine. It's not any little girls, anyone
that's abused, molested, it's not ours.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
And you get the piece when he passes that you
are healed.

Speaker 4 (01:02:17):
There.

Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
It's not this emotional. I keep using the word deficit,
but I'm like.

Speaker 3 (01:02:22):
I know it. Yeah, I like it. Let's go with it.
I like it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:25):
Oh right, you don't want to be deficit. It's true.
You can recover from abuse. Oh yeah, I think you're
the example of that. It took even a lifetime to
get through a lot of things, but then if you
do the work, Look how productive you are actually. I
was listening on a podcast you're on and she said
something funny. You're like, look at all the shit I
get to get done now. She said, yeah, yeah, yeah,

(01:02:47):
once you're not an abusive relationship, but like, look how
productive you are now. And I just love that. I
love that you're able to take your experiences and education
people and help other people. You can coach someone on one,

(01:03:07):
you have your books. People can connect with you, and
it comes from your own hurt, your own pain and suffering.
You figured out what works for you. You healed first,
and I think that's what really resonates with people. So
you have your own experience and journey, but you're healed now,

(01:03:29):
You're at a whole new No foksgiven.

Speaker 3 (01:03:33):
Exactly and I want to thank you, thank you for
your recognition. I do want to say something though. One
thing I did not let before we end, I did
not let the abuser take is make me bitter. I'm
still very loving, softhearted, empathic, loving woman. That's my default,

(01:03:53):
that's my core. I will protect it. I won't give
just everyone access to it. Like you said, qualified, I
stayed beautiful, I stayed kind, funny, sweet, I didn't turn.
And that's the thing, you guys, when you hear you
don't have to become someone you're not. You just have

(01:04:14):
to protect it. You just have to protect it. Now,
that's it. So yeah, having a good time, trying to
stay young and get to meet women like yourself, powerhouse
women that are doing these remarkable, courageous things like going

(01:04:36):
to prison. I mean, it's not the average woman that
can do this.

Speaker 1 (01:04:41):
Look, you can heal. You can be killing it. Okay,
you can be killing it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:46):
Yes, you can be killing it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
Also, I know you're friends with doctor Day who's wrote
her book Run Like Hell, and you're a beautiful woman
who's you know, dated the Wolf of Wall Street and
turning flipping the script, turning it over, doing amazing things.
She's an author and an author. So I just really
want to inspire people out there that you can't heal,

(01:05:12):
and you know, your life can be like this true
crime book. It could have ended differently, this chapter in
your book could have been different. But here you are providing,
just providing content that's for women and so thanks for
clabbing with me and hanging out. And I can't wait

(01:05:32):
to come on your podcast next week.

Speaker 3 (01:05:35):
Yes, thank you doctor Anderson for having me. This has
been very exciting for me. I don't feel like I
have a cold anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
This.

Speaker 3 (01:05:47):
I love talking about this stuff, you know, I love it.
Thank you so much for having me and sharing your
wisdom with me as well.

Speaker 1 (01:05:54):
Well, you've truly done the work because you're, like you said,
you're not bitter, none of that. It's like, you can
have joy, you can have a wonderful life, you can
move on, you can write best sellers, you can just
be killing it and you can have that in your past.
But it doesn't have to define you.

Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
Yeah, it doesn't. I won't. I think it's the mindset too,
Like I will rather chase my destiny if it takes
the rest of my life and be six feet under
than given to what happened to me.

Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
As a day. Where can people find you if they
want to book a session with you? What's your website?
Best place to find you?

Speaker 3 (01:06:36):
You can find me on break Free, Rise and Rebuild,
or my in house publishing where I help authors. Power
within My website is finally FreeLife dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
All right, awesome, Thank you so much, Thank you so much.
Thank you for listening to Killer Psychologist. To watch full
video episodes or if you want to interact with me,
you can find Killer Psychologists on YouTube. You can also
get notified of new episodes by signing up in my
stand store. Now, if you want to work with me,

(01:07:14):
you can book a console. My website is psychologydoctor dot com.
That's psychology dr dot com.