June 27, 2024 • 33 mins
A concerning op-ed revealed that “three quarters of white people don’t have any non-white friends.” Why is this? What are the most shocking stats? And what should you do?
This is a new, updated version of one of the most popular episodes. I've filled it out with more context, more info, and answers to the questions that you sent in.
Related episodes:
Diversifying Your Social Circle– the Dos and Don’ts on Apple & Spotify
Source: Washington Post, Three quarters of whites don't have any non-white friends
To support Marie and get exclusive resources, head to patreon.com/mariebeech. To learn more about Marie's DEI services, head to mariebeecham.com. Leave a new rating or review this month, and I'll donate $1 to EJI.org on your behalf.
This is a new, updated version of one of the most popular episodes. I've filled it out with more context, more info, and answers to the questions that you sent in.
Related episodes:
Diversifying Your Social Circle– the Dos and Don’ts on Apple & Spotify
Source: Washington Post, Three quarters of whites don't have any non-white friends
To support Marie and get exclusive resources, head to patreon.com/mariebeech. To learn more about Marie's DEI services, head to mariebeecham.com. Leave a new rating or review this month, and I'll donate $1 to EJI.org on your behalf.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:10):
Hello, and welcome back. I'myour host, Marie Beacham, and you
are listening to Know Better, DoBetter podcast that makes it easy for you
to get informed about race. Asa reminder, if you have not yet
left a rating or review and you'dlike to, now's the time because for
this month, every new rating orreview for the podcast, I'm donating one
(00:32):
dollar to Equal Justice Initiative. Onyour bealf. Also, for the month
of June, we've been doing thisfun thing releasing all of your favorite episodes,
the most listened to episodes, butI've given them a makeover. They
have a fresh twist, new information, new interjections sprinkled throughout, and lots
(00:52):
of clarification. For this episode,especially the title and the claims were very
eye catching. And so many peopleand because you're like, what white people
only have white friends? That seemsnot good and I agree. And this
episode especially drew a lot of questions, a lot of feedback, a lot
of requests for more information. Sothis is like a mega makeover because I
(01:18):
think the feedback was super fair.I only quoted a little little bit from
the source article and study stuff,but it makes sense you wanted to hear
more. You wanted to hear comparisons. I think I kind of leaned heavy
on the one side, which isthat white people only have white friends.
But there is more information about howother racial groups also don't have the most
(01:38):
diversity in their life, So we'llget to that. Other helpful context is
that at the time of recording thisepisode, I had just released a different
one on white Flight. White Flight, in case you don't know, is
the whole thing we see playing outwhere people of color moved into city centers
and white people moved out of citycenters into the suburbs. Kin of this
(02:00):
whole like elective racial segregation that's beenplaying out for many decades. I chuckled
because I'm uncomfortable speaking those words.It's not good because what happens is whole
communities end up being racially homogeneous bychoice. So we set the stage with
that of like the societal things happening, and then this episode is zooming in
(02:21):
and speaking to you the individual,what is the effect of living in cities
and in communities that are racially homogeneous. What does that look like at the
individual levels? How do our relationships, our social connections end up being so
very like us? That's going tobe the run of the episode. First,
(02:42):
going through the data, is itreally true that most white people have
only white friends? Yes? Whatabout other racial groups? Are they only
friends with their racial group? We'lltalk about that. Then is this a
problem like or is this just anatural thing that's happening. Maybe it's not
prejudice, Maybe it's just fine.Will get there, and lastly, we'll
land the plane with what could bedone? What are practical things a person
(03:07):
could do, or would do orshould do to do something about this.
Now, without further ado, let'sget into the episode. I'll just spoil
it and say that the majority ofwhite people are only friends with white people.
That's the spoiler. Let's fill thepicture in a little bit more though.
(03:30):
So this is a topic that manywhite people have taken an interest in.
In recent years, many white peoplehave known to examine their social circle
to take notice of a lack ofdiversity in their lives, their neighborhoods,
all that kind of stuff. Andeven a common activity for workshops, maybe
(03:51):
at a school or a workplace,when you're talking about the subject of race,
you might have participants answer questions likewho do you go to for advice?
Who did you celebrate your last birthdaywith? Who have you invited to
your home? Who are your fiveclosest friends? Those kinds of things,
And it might not even be introducedwith that premise outright. Maybe participants only
(04:15):
know that they're to be answering questions, but they don't exactly know what the
point of the activity is. Andthen it's after they write down all of
the names, they think of allof the people, they recall all of
their most important relationships, that thefacilitator of the activity would say, well,
actually, I feel like I shouldpause right now. I feel like
(04:35):
you should reflect on one of thosequestions. Let's go with who are your
four closest friends? Five? Rattlethem off, number one, number two,
number three, number four, andno hate to them, but bottom
of the list, number five.If you could actually think of them that
(04:58):
quickly, I'm impressed. And evenif you didn't think of that many that
quickly, we're still going to moveon. And I'll reveal that the point
of this activity, as you mighthave guessed, is after thinking of the
people, then going through the listand considering the demographics of your social circle.
So if it were on paper andthe next column over you would write
(05:18):
down people's races, maybe ethnicities,and you would have a very clear indicator
of whether or not you are trulyenclose proximity to a diverse group. Or
if you were day to day andyour friendships are more homogeneous than they probably
should be, maybe you're like,oh, I'm good, like I'm rocking
(05:40):
this, or maybe i'd say themore typical response is that white participants are
shocked that it says white white,white, white, mixed race, white
white, white white, And wejust went over how areas tend to be
racially homogeneous. That doesn't make agreat excuse of like, ah, but
(06:01):
this is great. You know,of course all of my friends are white.
It's because my whole city is white. If that's you're like, oh,
I'm good, then you really needto pause and think about that sentiment.
Because my friends are white because mycity is white, I think that
might make things worse, like amplifythe need for you to have some people
in your life who aren't your samerace, who don't have your same background,
(06:25):
don't look like you, think likeyou, act like you. That
whole thing, because even without theworksheet sitting in front of you, it's
helpful and it's good to ask yourselfwho am I surrounded by, and more
specifically, what groups of people areentirely absent from my life. And I'm
saying all of this because even whitepeople who care about advocacy and who care
(06:49):
about anti racism really lack diversity intheir inner circles. And the lack of
diversity in your life is not withoutconsequences. We've talked about how having less
contact with people of other races islinked with having racist attitudes, and it's
linked with having more trouble of evenbeing able to tell people of color apart.
(07:13):
It's tied to having stronger in grouppreference, which means that because you
know white people, you prefer whitepeople. So you only get to know
white people, and you continue toprefer white people. And I use that
word prefer on purpose because we thinkof prejudice as if it means hatred for
the outgroup. But a much morehelpful, accurate way to think of prejudice
(07:36):
is preference for your in group.It doesn't require malice, it doesn't even
require contempt. Prejudice and discrimination canbe evident so long as there is a
slight preference for people who remind youof you for people in your racial group.
And what I'm describing here is veryreal. We're not dealing in hypotheticals.
(07:58):
This is the current state of things. The whole like attracts like is
really really severe. We've set thisup enough. Let's talk statistics. Okay,
As was reported in the Washington Post, seventy five percent, three quarters
of all white people don't have anynon white friends. Let's read that back
(08:22):
one more time. Now, threequarters of white people don't have any non
white friends. Or put another way, three quarters of white people are only
friends with other white people. That'sa scary statistic to me because with that
number, that fraction, it's abig one. That means it really does
(08:43):
include people who claim to be antiracist, who aspire to be anti racist,
who want equity, who want unity, who want justice, and yet
it lacks any kind of personal elementor personal connection because you yourself are so
far removed from people of other racialgroups. So that is really concerning and
(09:03):
in itself is worth examining, butjust to throw out when more relevant statistic
in case you're wondering about the specificsfor white people who do have non white
friends. Even then, on average, ninety one percent of a white person's
friends are also white, so prettymuch nine to ten of a white person's
(09:26):
friends are white. Hello, itis Marie from the Future popping in to
drill down on the data a littlebit more. First of all, many
of you were very curious about howdid people get this data? Like,
what white person out there has onehundred friends to begin with, Like,
forget ninety one of them being white. This data doesn't make sense. Who
has one hundred friends? Okay,yeah, no, that was like figures
(09:50):
they arrived at to illustrate the demographics, but they didn't have white people list
out one hundred friends. I'll fillyou in on how they calculated the racial
breakdowns and I quote. As partof their American Value Survey, the Public
Religion Research Institute, researchers asked respondentsto name up to seven people with whom
(10:11):
they regularly discussed important matters. Okay, name up to seven. Then they
asked a battery of demographic questions aboutthese people, their relationships to the respondents,
as well as their gender, religion, and for these purposes, their
race. Then, after doing thatwith a large swath of white people,
many many people were given this survey. The researchers took these data points to
(10:35):
derive average racial breakdowns of the friendnetworks of the average black, white,
and hispanic survey respondent. So,in other words, white people were not
asked to name one hundred friends.White people were asked to name to seven
friends. And then researchers crunched thenumbers and were like, oh, most
(10:56):
white people are only friends with whitepeople. If this were to be represented
out of one hundred, they wouldland it ninety one out of one hundred,
sharing their race. And while we'retalking about the article, let me
just riff on that for a littlebit longer and give you more crucial information
that I shouldn't have left out.I was trying to be brief and punchy.
That doesn't work for me. Mything is nuanced nuance. So here
(11:18):
it is. The article opened upwith referencing a famous Chris rockbit from two
thousand and nine where he said,all of my black friends have a bunch
of white friends, and all ofmy white friends have one black friend.
And so then the researchers were like, let's crunch the numbers, and then
they're like, yeah, that statementhas some truth to it. Some truth,
(11:39):
and I quote. Let's consider theaverage white American and the average Black
American, and let's say, forsimplicity's sake, that each of them have
one hundred friends. If you wereto break down their respective friend networks by
race, those networks would look somethinglike this. In a one hundred friend
scenario, the average white person hasninety one white friends, The average white
(12:01):
person has one black friend, oneLatino friend, one Asian friend, one
mixed race friend, and the lastfew friends would be of unknown race.
The average black person, on theother hand, has eighty three black friends,
eight white friends, two Latino friends, zero Asian friends, three mixed
race friends, one other race friend, and four friends of unknown race.
(12:24):
So people were curious, like,what about other races? Is it the
same? And I should have includedit because it is similar enough to be
like, oh, okay, ninetyone out of one hundred versus black people
group together eighty three out of onehundred. That's another significant preference thing.
So it's not that this is onlywhite people. It's kind of that all
(12:45):
racial groups have this self selection thinggoing on, or maybe that only particular
groups have a self selection thing goingon, and then the other groups are
just like left to themselves, youknow, they're not necessarily self selecting.
They're more just like ostracized together.That's another possibility. But the conclusion drawn
is quote, there are a numberof factors driving these numbers. Simple population
(13:07):
counts are one of them. Thereare more white people than black people in
the United States, so it makessense that the average American is going to
have more white friends than black friends. Another factor is our tendency to seek
out and associate with people who aresimilar to us in a number of ways.
The light term for this phenomenon issorting, and it affects everything.
So then they even kind of addresslike, yes, white people are only
(13:28):
friends with white people, but that'strue of other races too, isn't it
pretty much a wash? Aren't weall kind of doing the exact same thing.
Is white people's self selection any moresevere than everybody else's? And they
say this to be fair. Thenumber suggests that there is plenty of racial
self selection in Black Americans. Friendnetworks too, but solely focusing on black
(13:50):
white relations, which quick aside,that's a problem in itself. I fully
am aware of that. I fullybelieve that myself, A lot of this
podcast focuses on black white relations becausethose are my own racilite nineties. I
am black, I am white,I am both at once, and so
those are the topics that I especiallygravitate toward because of my experience, and
(14:11):
now it's the area where I've reallybuilt up the expertise. Definitely kind of
exclusionary, doesn't give sufficient attention toall of the various races out there,
just wanted to acknowledge them, Okay, But back to it solely focusing on
black white relations. When we're talkingabout this data, there's a pretty big
(14:33):
difference between having only one member ofa given race and your friend network and
having eight of them. What they'rereferring to there is that white people out
of one hundred friends would have onlyone black friend, whereas black people out
of one hundred friends would have eightwhite friends. I say quote, going
back to Chris Rock's point, theaverage black person's friend network is eight percent
(14:56):
white, but the average white person'snetwork is only one person black. To
put it another way, black peoplehave ten times as many black friends as
they do white friends, but whiteAmericans have ninety one times as many white
friends as they do Black friends.So like, the self selection multiplier for
black people is ten times, theyhave ten times as many black friends as
(15:18):
white friends, but the self selectionmultiplier for white people is ninety one times.
They have ninety one times as manywhite friends as black friends. Again,
when we're talking specifically about black whiterelations, which is admittedly not the
whole picture, but to speak ofthe whole picture, and I quote PRR's
data show that a full seventy fivepercent of whites have quote entirely white social
(15:43):
networks without any minority presence. Thesame holds true for about sixty percent of
Black Americans. So about seventy fivepercent of white people have literally only other
white people in their social circle,no exceptions whatsoever, and about sixty percent
of black people have literally only blackpeople in their social circle, no exceptions.
(16:07):
I felt that that data was worthincluding. It shouldn't have all been
excluded. I should have been quotingmore from the article that's on me.
Other people also pointed out, butthis is from twenty fourteen. This is
a decade ago. I'm sure thingshave changed to which I say monarchy,
I mean, I get it.A decade is a long time if we're
talking about certain things. I don'tknow technology or things that are rapidly changing,
(16:33):
but something like the racial friendship demographics, this racial self selection that has
not changed rapidly in the last manydecades. So I don't know why data
from twenty fourteen would be deemed irrelevantby twenty twenty four when it maps on
so closely with data from like fiftyyears prior, you know, nineteen sixty
four. Very optimistic to hope thatwe would have all made such a radical
(16:59):
pivot in just years, but Idon't have a reason to believe we have,
So I think this data still standspretty strong. Okay, that was
a big aside. Now let's getback into the bones of the original episode.
An aspect of this conversation that Ithink is helpful and good to bring
up is that friendships aren't the onlymeaningful, close, recurring relationships in a
(17:26):
person's life. So there's also thepeople you work with, the people you
work for, the professionals you hire, your doctor, your dentist. So
just as some food for thought diversifyingyour social circle, it could mean something
beyond or in addition to diverse friendships. You know, what would it look
like to choose a workplace that valuesdiversity, or preferring to live in a
(17:51):
city that has a diverse community,or different things like that. No matter
what we're talking about, friendships orother kind of relationships. Hello, it's
Marie from the Future popping in fora quick minute. In this next bit,
I'm going to start talking about diversifyingyour friend group and the importance of
that effort. Honestly, that premiseI even have some reservations about. There
(18:15):
is a part of me that islike, why should you be trying to
maneuver the racial demographics of the peoplewhom you happen to love and care about.
Should we really be bringing race baseddecisions into that realm? Like I
know many of us are like,yes, we absolutely should, because diversity
is important, And I'm with you, diversity is important. I really think
(18:37):
the case for why diversity is important. I say it elsewhere in the episode
is that a life without diversity affectsyour psychology, Like it's not a neutral
thing. When you don't have peoplewho aren't of your same race in your
life, you have a harder timetelling them a part. You have a
harder time than knowing their names.Like when you are not around racial diversity,
(18:57):
you render yourself in care capable ofdistinguishing individuals, remembering their names,
and then like building relationships, Likethere's something about even that that really freaks
me out, Like that alone islike, oh dang, you really should
make some sort of concerted effort toknow people who don't look like you.
(19:17):
And then there's also the fact oflike self selection leads to further self selection,
and you have this whole preference foryour in group, and when you
don't know the outgroup, meaning thepeople who are not like you, then
you tend to make more generalizations aboutthe outgroup versus when you have individuals within
the outgroup who you know personally,then you're able to individuate, meaning you're
(19:37):
able to see them for what makesthem unique and see the ways that the
generalizations about a certain group are notaccurate and they're not the complete picture of
who people are. So for thosereasons, like I'm thinking of the psychology
of like, yes, we absolutelyshould have diverse relationships and connections, but
I do think it would be andunfortunate if in our personal lives we're doing
(20:03):
like an affirmative action type of thing, like race is a criteria in evaluating
who my companions will be I Idon't know. I think there are a
lot of ways that can go wrong. I think that sounds more regressive than
progressive. You know, to takein race as a factor of who you'll
build a relationship with, or whoyou can trust, or who you can
(20:26):
relate to. I don't think that'sthe direction we want things to go in.
But that's just the thing. Thewhole thing about being intentional race should
be a factor in my social circleand I should be more diverse, is
that when you're not intentional about makingit a factor, and you just go
with the current of what happens naturally, then it's all self selection and it's
all people who are your same race. That's the thing we're trying to correct
(20:47):
for. But still it is atricky thing. It's difficult. I talk
a little bit more about that rightnow in the episode, So let's carry
on. I always see I seeit. I see the fear and people
that eyes whenever this subject comes up, Because for many white people, the
(21:07):
idea of adding diversity into your lifesounds like we're saying that white people are
out. White people are no good. You need to make sure there aren't
too many of them, and theyhear that, and they're like, white
people is me, White people ismy family. White people includes my kids,
my spouse, my loved ones.And now you're saying that's problematic to
(21:30):
love the people in my life.And if that were the message, you
should be concerned. Like you,you should have strong opposition to the suggestion
that you need to cut white peopleout of your life because of their race.
That would be a whole backwards,counterproductive thing. That's not what I'm
talking about at all. Whenever we'reexamining the level of diversity or the lack
(21:55):
thereof in our lives, the mostimportant distinction, the biggest thing that I
need you to hear, is thatit is not about subtracting. It is
about adding. Say it with me, It is not about subtracting. It
is about adding. Okay, letme explain. If you're surrounded by white
(22:18):
people, there's nothing wrong with havingplenty of connections with white people, much
care for white people. It's notthat there are too many white people in
your life. The issue is thatthere's not enough people of color in your
life. With white people, yourset, your good, plenty of contact.
But if and when there's a lackof people of color in your life,
(22:41):
then that's a problem. That's whenthere needs to be intentional effort to
seek out more positive, meaningful relationshipswith people of color. So the call
to action there is not subtract whitepeople from your life, subtract white friends
from your list, whatever. It'snot about subtracting, it's about adding.
(23:03):
The task instead is that some kindof addition should be made. Because if
the message were that white people aretoxic to be around and there's too many
of them so you need to makesure there are less of them, that
would make me squirm too. That'swhy it's so important that we understand and
we speak about the subject in aclear way so as to not confuse people
(23:26):
that we're promoting prejudice against white peopleor anything like that. Heck to the
no, I don't think we're anywherenear that being the problem, because apparently
white people have a strong preference forwhite people. I could spell out the
consequences of that of never being exposedto people of other races, but that's
kind of what the podcast is allabout. We've talked about that a good
(23:48):
bit, and I think you cangather and assume what the many consequences would
be that no matter how many booksyou read or podcasts you listen to,
without any kind of real life connection, and you're really not in a position
to walk the walk to fully liveout your conviction that diversity is a beautiful
thing. And what you're not puttinginto practice is the idea that people of
(24:11):
color and being around people of coloris worthwhile and it adds something important and
valuable and necessary to your own life. I've always said that I think the
best argument for seeking out diversity isthat you just can't get around the logic
of having a life without diversity,because, especially if you're talking about raising
(24:32):
children and trying to teach them thatwe care about all people may all add
something unique and important to our lives. And yet everything about your life sends
your children the message and yourself themessage that people of color are inessential and
irrelevant. And that's okay, becausethat's just how the cookie has crumbled for
(24:55):
us. You know, they justhappen to not live in our neighborhoods or
go to our schools or be inour friend groups, and that's just the
way things have played out. Butdon't worry, guys, They're great.
Make sure that if you run intothem in the future when you grow up,
you're nice to them. Like thatkind of message to a child.
It's just do as I say,but not as I do. You know,
(25:15):
I say diversity is valuable. Ispeak that, but my actions don't
express that in any way. AndI think when you think of it in
terms of what would a child gatherfrom this, from the fact that our
life is completely white people, everythingon our calendar, everyone who comes to
our home, even if you yourselfdon't have a child, I think that's
(25:36):
just a helpful lens to think interms of because there's no explaining your way
around it. It's just the simpletruths of what they see and what they
don't see, and what they don'tsee is that we value care for care
about people of color. Hello Mariefrom the Future, once more popping in
to reiterate that I'm not I'm reallynot advocating for a very strategic manipulation of
(26:03):
your social circle, like manufacturing theright fraction of diversity. And I know
that's really probably the natural takeaway bybeing like, oh, ninety one out
of one hundred white friends are white. It's yeah, you know what I
mean, I guess one hundred percentof white friends are white. Ninety one
(26:23):
percent of white people's friends are white. I'm not saying like, Okay,
so your step A, B,and C to change that fraction and be
a really, really good anti racist. I don't think these kinds of things
should be quite so prescriptive. Butwhat I'm really trying to get you thinking
(26:44):
about is just how did you getthere? How did we get here?
How is that the status quo?And with that status quo, what is
the message that we're implicitly buying into? You know, like, are the
only relevant people in the world peoplewho are of my race? Are the
only people who I could really trulyrelate to and really really connect with and
(27:04):
enjoy Are all of those people probablyin my own racial group. Like,
That's what I'm trying to prod andpoke and pry at. And that's why
even in the whole episode on diversifyingyour social circle, I don't say look
for a black friend, introduce yourselfto them, and tell them that you
need a black friend, so you'renot going to be prejudiced. No,
(27:26):
it's not those kinds of directives.Instead, it's like, hey, look
at all of the places you goin your world, and try to evaluate
if the places that you happen toprefer happen to be primarily your on racial
group, Like if you just sohappen to like the parks where the kids
playing are white, or you happento prefer the churches where the congregation is
white, and you happen to preferthe private school where the peers are all
(27:49):
white rather than the public school inyour neighborhood where they are less white,
like, those are the things toevaluate and just recognize if you are unintently,
unknowingly taking certain steps to undiversify yoursocial circle. Steps you might not
even relax, steps like choosing theprivate school, choosing the certain church,
(28:11):
choosing a certain neighborhood. There mightbe a real autopilot decision of choosing places
that are mostly white. And that'swhat I'm inviting you to reevaluate. And
that's what I'm inviting you to tryto see and question and reevaluate. I
am not saying prescriptively as an instruction, as a directive, you must go
(28:33):
do these three simple steps. Youmust make a black friend by the end
of this week and have them overfor cookies and warm milk, No,
not saying that. Okay, backinto the episode. Now, my plan
here is not to heap piles ofguilt, but rather just to stir up
some thought. And if you dofeel a burden, if you do feel
(28:56):
conviction, don't do the tailspin intoshame. Don't get lost in your own
thoughts. Instead, once you've gatheredyour thoughts your convictions as quickly as you
can, turn your focus outward tookay, then what should I do?
What should I do differently? Whatshould I do tomorrow? Because that's actually
conducive to a positive impact. That'swhat we want to see more of,
(29:18):
you know, and we need tounderstand and remember that the fact of the
matter is that the majority of whitepeople are only friends with white people.
That's a problem. There's no gettingaround the fact that that's a problem.
And if that's you, then there'sno way to spare yourself from the repercussions
of that. The only way tonot deal with the consequences of prejudice and
(29:42):
in group preference and all of thatis to change that reality. I've got
a whole episode linked in the shownotes called Diversifying your Social Circle. The
dues, the don'ts and the data, and in that episode we get really
practical about what steps you could actuallytake to increase your contact and connection with
(30:03):
people who don't look like you.And the real question in that episode is
how do you do that without veeringtoward tokenism or having a strange ulterior motive.
We're taking these really calculated steps touse a person to help you work
on your own prejudices like that.That's a weird, strange endeavor. It's
not easy to take on in away that's genuine, authentic and really considerate
(30:26):
of the people of color who you'rehoping to meet and connect with. So
in that episode there's some really helpfuland actionable, clear guidance on how to
make that happen. It is notthat we need to subtract white people from
our lives. It is not thatwe need to demonize or devalue white people.
Instead, the rationale is that ifthere is any value in knowing and
(30:52):
loving and living in close proximity withpeople of color, then we should be
really intentional about seeking and valuing peopleof color as well. It's not about
demoting white people devaluing white people.It's about recognizing that people of color are
valuable and worthy and life giving,but our actions and choices aren't lining up
(31:14):
with that. So we need totake steps to reconcile our spoken beliefs,
our values with the reality of ourfriendships in our lives. Those are two
completely different ems, the idea thatwe need to subtract white people versus recognizing
that there's value in adding people ofcolor, and those mos can get blurred
confused from one another. Don't letthat happen. Hear me clearly when I
(31:37):
say the issue is not the friendsthat you have and the relationships that you
formed. That's not a problem.Continue them, enjoy them. What I
want you to consider is the friendshipsyou lack and the relationships you haven't formed,
and why that is and what youcan do to change that. Sound
good? Okay, great? Apparentlythe outro didn't record. It was very
(32:00):
detailed and thorough and thoughtful, butwe're just gonna make it brief and say,
this is an important topic for usto think about because historically, when
people of different races are not inclose relationship with each other and are either
intentionally or unintentionally seeking distance and separationand a word that sounds a whole lot
like separation. Segregation, that's theword. It's not good. So I'm
(32:24):
hopeful that with a little deliberate effort, we could turn a corner and get
it a little bit closer to thatmulti racial, interracial, cross racial,
harmonious society we'd all like to livein. As a reminder, if you
have not yet left a rating andyou would like to do so, now
is a great time because I willdonate one dollar to Equal Justice Initiative.
(32:44):
On your behalf. I hope you'veenjoyed these June Greatest Hit type episodes where
we're going down memory lane all theoldies and goodies. Be sure to check
those out. I mean it whenI say hosting this podcast is truly an
honor and a privilege. Joy andI am so grateful for every single one
of you. And if you onlytake away one thing from this episode,
(33:06):
I hope that change starts with you,
Hello, and welcome back. I'myour host, Marie Beacham, and you
are listening to Know Better, DoBetter podcast that makes it easy for you
to get informed about race. Asa reminder, if you have not yet
left a rating or review and you'dlike to, now's the time because for
this month, every new rating orreview for the podcast, I'm donating one
(00:32):
dollar to Equal Justice Initiative. Onyour bealf. Also, for the month
of June, we've been doing thisfun thing releasing all of your favorite episodes,
the most listened to episodes, butI've given them a makeover. They
have a fresh twist, new information, new interjections sprinkled throughout, and lots
(00:52):
of clarification. For this episode,especially the title and the claims were very
eye catching. And so many peopleand because you're like, what white people
only have white friends? That seemsnot good and I agree. And this
episode especially drew a lot of questions, a lot of feedback, a lot
of requests for more information. Sothis is like a mega makeover because I
(01:18):
think the feedback was super fair.I only quoted a little little bit from
the source article and study stuff,but it makes sense you wanted to hear
more. You wanted to hear comparisons. I think I kind of leaned heavy
on the one side, which isthat white people only have white friends.
But there is more information about howother racial groups also don't have the most
(01:38):
diversity in their life, So we'llget to that. Other helpful context is
that at the time of recording thisepisode, I had just released a different
one on white Flight. White Flight, in case you don't know, is
the whole thing we see playing outwhere people of color moved into city centers
and white people moved out of citycenters into the suburbs. Kin of this
(02:00):
whole like elective racial segregation that's beenplaying out for many decades. I chuckled
because I'm uncomfortable speaking those words.It's not good because what happens is whole
communities end up being racially homogeneous bychoice. So we set the stage with
that of like the societal things happening, and then this episode is zooming in
(02:21):
and speaking to you the individual,what is the effect of living in cities
and in communities that are racially homogeneous. What does that look like at the
individual levels? How do our relationships, our social connections end up being so
very like us? That's going tobe the run of the episode. First,
(02:42):
going through the data, is itreally true that most white people have
only white friends? Yes? Whatabout other racial groups? Are they only
friends with their racial group? We'lltalk about that. Then is this a
problem like or is this just anatural thing that's happening. Maybe it's not
prejudice, Maybe it's just fine.Will get there, and lastly, we'll
land the plane with what could bedone? What are practical things a person
(03:07):
could do, or would do orshould do to do something about this.
Now, without further ado, let'sget into the episode. I'll just spoil
it and say that the majority ofwhite people are only friends with white people.
That's the spoiler. Let's fill thepicture in a little bit more though.
(03:30):
So this is a topic that manywhite people have taken an interest in.
In recent years, many white peoplehave known to examine their social circle
to take notice of a lack ofdiversity in their lives, their neighborhoods,
all that kind of stuff. Andeven a common activity for workshops, maybe
(03:51):
at a school or a workplace,when you're talking about the subject of race,
you might have participants answer questions likewho do you go to for advice?
Who did you celebrate your last birthdaywith? Who have you invited to
your home? Who are your fiveclosest friends? Those kinds of things,
And it might not even be introducedwith that premise outright. Maybe participants only
(04:15):
know that they're to be answering questions, but they don't exactly know what the
point of the activity is. Andthen it's after they write down all of
the names, they think of allof the people, they recall all of
their most important relationships, that thefacilitator of the activity would say, well,
actually, I feel like I shouldpause right now. I feel like
(04:35):
you should reflect on one of thosequestions. Let's go with who are your
four closest friends? Five? Rattlethem off, number one, number two,
number three, number four, andno hate to them, but bottom
of the list, number five.If you could actually think of them that
(04:58):
quickly, I'm impressed. And evenif you didn't think of that many that
quickly, we're still going to moveon. And I'll reveal that the point
of this activity, as you mighthave guessed, is after thinking of the
people, then going through the listand considering the demographics of your social circle.
So if it were on paper andthe next column over you would write
(05:18):
down people's races, maybe ethnicities,and you would have a very clear indicator
of whether or not you are trulyenclose proximity to a diverse group. Or
if you were day to day andyour friendships are more homogeneous than they probably
should be, maybe you're like,oh, I'm good, like I'm rocking
(05:40):
this, or maybe i'd say themore typical response is that white participants are
shocked that it says white white,white, white, mixed race, white
white, white white, And wejust went over how areas tend to be
racially homogeneous. That doesn't make agreat excuse of like, ah, but
(06:01):
this is great. You know,of course all of my friends are white.
It's because my whole city is white. If that's you're like, oh,
I'm good, then you really needto pause and think about that sentiment.
Because my friends are white because mycity is white, I think that
might make things worse, like amplifythe need for you to have some people
in your life who aren't your samerace, who don't have your same background,
(06:25):
don't look like you, think likeyou, act like you. That
whole thing, because even without theworksheet sitting in front of you, it's
helpful and it's good to ask yourselfwho am I surrounded by, and more
specifically, what groups of people areentirely absent from my life. And I'm
saying all of this because even whitepeople who care about advocacy and who care
(06:49):
about anti racism really lack diversity intheir inner circles. And the lack of
diversity in your life is not withoutconsequences. We've talked about how having less
contact with people of other races islinked with having racist attitudes, and it's
linked with having more trouble of evenbeing able to tell people of color apart.
(07:13):
It's tied to having stronger in grouppreference, which means that because you
know white people, you prefer whitepeople. So you only get to know
white people, and you continue toprefer white people. And I use that
word prefer on purpose because we thinkof prejudice as if it means hatred for
the outgroup. But a much morehelpful, accurate way to think of prejudice
(07:36):
is preference for your in group.It doesn't require malice, it doesn't even
require contempt. Prejudice and discrimination canbe evident so long as there is a
slight preference for people who remind youof you for people in your racial group.
And what I'm describing here is veryreal. We're not dealing in hypotheticals.
(07:58):
This is the current state of things. The whole like attracts like is
really really severe. We've set thisup enough. Let's talk statistics. Okay,
As was reported in the Washington Post, seventy five percent, three quarters
of all white people don't have anynon white friends. Let's read that back
(08:22):
one more time. Now, threequarters of white people don't have any non
white friends. Or put another way, three quarters of white people are only
friends with other white people. That'sa scary statistic to me because with that
number, that fraction, it's abig one. That means it really does
(08:43):
include people who claim to be antiracist, who aspire to be anti racist,
who want equity, who want unity, who want justice, and yet
it lacks any kind of personal elementor personal connection because you yourself are so
far removed from people of other racialgroups. So that is really concerning and
(09:03):
in itself is worth examining, butjust to throw out when more relevant statistic
in case you're wondering about the specificsfor white people who do have non white
friends. Even then, on average, ninety one percent of a white person's
friends are also white, so prettymuch nine to ten of a white person's
(09:26):
friends are white. Hello, itis Marie from the Future popping in to
drill down on the data a littlebit more. First of all, many
of you were very curious about howdid people get this data? Like,
what white person out there has onehundred friends to begin with, Like,
forget ninety one of them being white. This data doesn't make sense. Who
has one hundred friends? Okay,yeah, no, that was like figures
(09:50):
they arrived at to illustrate the demographics, but they didn't have white people list
out one hundred friends. I'll fillyou in on how they calculated the racial
breakdowns and I quote. As partof their American Value Survey, the Public
Religion Research Institute, researchers asked respondentsto name up to seven people with whom
(10:11):
they regularly discussed important matters. Okay, name up to seven. Then they
asked a battery of demographic questions aboutthese people, their relationships to the respondents,
as well as their gender, religion, and for these purposes, their
race. Then, after doing thatwith a large swath of white people,
many many people were given this survey. The researchers took these data points to
(10:35):
derive average racial breakdowns of the friendnetworks of the average black, white,
and hispanic survey respondent. So,in other words, white people were not
asked to name one hundred friends.White people were asked to name to seven
friends. And then researchers crunched thenumbers and were like, oh, most
(10:56):
white people are only friends with whitepeople. If this were to be represented
out of one hundred, they wouldland it ninety one out of one hundred,
sharing their race. And while we'retalking about the article, let me
just riff on that for a littlebit longer and give you more crucial information
that I shouldn't have left out.I was trying to be brief and punchy.
That doesn't work for me. Mything is nuanced nuance. So here
(11:18):
it is. The article opened upwith referencing a famous Chris rockbit from two
thousand and nine where he said,all of my black friends have a bunch
of white friends, and all ofmy white friends have one black friend.
And so then the researchers were like, let's crunch the numbers, and then
they're like, yeah, that statementhas some truth to it. Some truth,
(11:39):
and I quote. Let's consider theaverage white American and the average Black
American, and let's say, forsimplicity's sake, that each of them have
one hundred friends. If you wereto break down their respective friend networks by
race, those networks would look somethinglike this. In a one hundred friend
scenario, the average white person hasninety one white friends, The average white
(12:01):
person has one black friend, oneLatino friend, one Asian friend, one
mixed race friend, and the lastfew friends would be of unknown race.
The average black person, on theother hand, has eighty three black friends,
eight white friends, two Latino friends, zero Asian friends, three mixed
race friends, one other race friend, and four friends of unknown race.
(12:24):
So people were curious, like,what about other races? Is it the
same? And I should have includedit because it is similar enough to be
like, oh, okay, ninetyone out of one hundred versus black people
group together eighty three out of onehundred. That's another significant preference thing.
So it's not that this is onlywhite people. It's kind of that all
(12:45):
racial groups have this self selection thinggoing on, or maybe that only particular
groups have a self selection thing goingon, and then the other groups are
just like left to themselves, youknow, they're not necessarily self selecting.
They're more just like ostracized together.That's another possibility. But the conclusion drawn
is quote, there are a numberof factors driving these numbers. Simple population
(13:07):
counts are one of them. Thereare more white people than black people in
the United States, so it makessense that the average American is going to
have more white friends than black friends. Another factor is our tendency to seek
out and associate with people who aresimilar to us in a number of ways.
The light term for this phenomenon issorting, and it affects everything.
So then they even kind of addresslike, yes, white people are only
(13:28):
friends with white people, but that'strue of other races too, isn't it
pretty much a wash? Aren't weall kind of doing the exact same thing.
Is white people's self selection any moresevere than everybody else's? And they
say this to be fair. Thenumber suggests that there is plenty of racial
self selection in Black Americans. Friendnetworks too, but solely focusing on black
(13:50):
white relations, which quick aside,that's a problem in itself. I fully
am aware of that. I fullybelieve that myself, A lot of this
podcast focuses on black white relations becausethose are my own racilite nineties. I
am black, I am white,I am both at once, and so
those are the topics that I especiallygravitate toward because of my experience, and
(14:11):
now it's the area where I've reallybuilt up the expertise. Definitely kind of
exclusionary, doesn't give sufficient attention toall of the various races out there,
just wanted to acknowledge them, Okay, But back to it solely focusing on
black white relations. When we're talkingabout this data, there's a pretty big
(14:33):
difference between having only one member ofa given race and your friend network and
having eight of them. What they'rereferring to there is that white people out
of one hundred friends would have onlyone black friend, whereas black people out
of one hundred friends would have eightwhite friends. I say quote, going
back to Chris Rock's point, theaverage black person's friend network is eight percent
(14:56):
white, but the average white person'snetwork is only one person black. To
put it another way, black peoplehave ten times as many black friends as
they do white friends, but whiteAmericans have ninety one times as many white
friends as they do Black friends.So like, the self selection multiplier for
black people is ten times, theyhave ten times as many black friends as
(15:18):
white friends, but the self selectionmultiplier for white people is ninety one times.
They have ninety one times as manywhite friends as black friends. Again,
when we're talking specifically about black whiterelations, which is admittedly not the
whole picture, but to speak ofthe whole picture, and I quote PRR's
data show that a full seventy fivepercent of whites have quote entirely white social
(15:43):
networks without any minority presence. Thesame holds true for about sixty percent of
Black Americans. So about seventy fivepercent of white people have literally only other
white people in their social circle,no exceptions whatsoever, and about sixty percent
of black people have literally only blackpeople in their social circle, no exceptions.
(16:07):
I felt that that data was worthincluding. It shouldn't have all been
excluded. I should have been quotingmore from the article that's on me.
Other people also pointed out, butthis is from twenty fourteen. This is
a decade ago. I'm sure thingshave changed to which I say monarchy,
I mean, I get it.A decade is a long time if we're
talking about certain things. I don'tknow technology or things that are rapidly changing,
(16:33):
but something like the racial friendship demographics, this racial self selection that has
not changed rapidly in the last manydecades. So I don't know why data
from twenty fourteen would be deemed irrelevantby twenty twenty four when it maps on
so closely with data from like fiftyyears prior, you know, nineteen sixty
four. Very optimistic to hope thatwe would have all made such a radical
(16:59):
pivot in just years, but Idon't have a reason to believe we have,
So I think this data still standspretty strong. Okay, that was
a big aside. Now let's getback into the bones of the original episode.
An aspect of this conversation that Ithink is helpful and good to bring
up is that friendships aren't the onlymeaningful, close, recurring relationships in a
(17:26):
person's life. So there's also thepeople you work with, the people you
work for, the professionals you hire, your doctor, your dentist. So
just as some food for thought diversifyingyour social circle, it could mean something
beyond or in addition to diverse friendships. You know, what would it look
like to choose a workplace that valuesdiversity, or preferring to live in a
(17:51):
city that has a diverse community,or different things like that. No matter
what we're talking about, friendships orother kind of relationships. Hello, it's
Marie from the Future popping in fora quick minute. In this next bit,
I'm going to start talking about diversifyingyour friend group and the importance of
that effort. Honestly, that premiseI even have some reservations about. There
(18:15):
is a part of me that islike, why should you be trying to
maneuver the racial demographics of the peoplewhom you happen to love and care about.
Should we really be bringing race baseddecisions into that realm? Like I
know many of us are like,yes, we absolutely should, because diversity
is important, And I'm with you, diversity is important. I really think
(18:37):
the case for why diversity is important. I say it elsewhere in the episode
is that a life without diversity affectsyour psychology, Like it's not a neutral
thing. When you don't have peoplewho aren't of your same race in your
life, you have a harder timetelling them a part. You have a
harder time than knowing their names.Like when you are not around racial diversity,
(18:57):
you render yourself in care capable ofdistinguishing individuals, remembering their names,
and then like building relationships, Likethere's something about even that that really freaks
me out, Like that alone islike, oh dang, you really should
make some sort of concerted effort toknow people who don't look like you.
(19:17):
And then there's also the fact oflike self selection leads to further self selection,
and you have this whole preference foryour in group, and when you
don't know the outgroup, meaning thepeople who are not like you, then
you tend to make more generalizations aboutthe outgroup versus when you have individuals within
the outgroup who you know personally,then you're able to individuate, meaning you're
(19:37):
able to see them for what makesthem unique and see the ways that the
generalizations about a certain group are notaccurate and they're not the complete picture of
who people are. So for thosereasons, like I'm thinking of the psychology
of like, yes, we absolutelyshould have diverse relationships and connections, but
I do think it would be andunfortunate if in our personal lives we're doing
(20:03):
like an affirmative action type of thing, like race is a criteria in evaluating
who my companions will be I Idon't know. I think there are a
lot of ways that can go wrong. I think that sounds more regressive than
progressive. You know, to takein race as a factor of who you'll
build a relationship with, or whoyou can trust, or who you can
(20:26):
relate to. I don't think that'sthe direction we want things to go in.
But that's just the thing. Thewhole thing about being intentional race should
be a factor in my social circleand I should be more diverse, is
that when you're not intentional about makingit a factor, and you just go
with the current of what happens naturally, then it's all self selection and it's
all people who are your same race. That's the thing we're trying to correct
(20:47):
for. But still it is atricky thing. It's difficult. I talk
a little bit more about that rightnow in the episode, So let's carry
on. I always see I seeit. I see the fear and people
that eyes whenever this subject comes up, Because for many white people, the
(21:07):
idea of adding diversity into your lifesounds like we're saying that white people are
out. White people are no good. You need to make sure there aren't
too many of them, and theyhear that, and they're like, white
people is me, White people ismy family. White people includes my kids,
my spouse, my loved ones.And now you're saying that's problematic to
(21:30):
love the people in my life.And if that were the message, you
should be concerned. Like you,you should have strong opposition to the suggestion
that you need to cut white peopleout of your life because of their race.
That would be a whole backwards,counterproductive thing. That's not what I'm
talking about at all. Whenever we'reexamining the level of diversity or the lack
(21:55):
thereof in our lives, the mostimportant distinction, the biggest thing that I
need you to hear, is thatit is not about subtracting. It is
about adding. Say it with me, It is not about subtracting. It
is about adding. Okay, letme explain. If you're surrounded by white
(22:18):
people, there's nothing wrong with havingplenty of connections with white people, much
care for white people. It's notthat there are too many white people in
your life. The issue is thatthere's not enough people of color in your
life. With white people, yourset, your good, plenty of contact.
But if and when there's a lackof people of color in your life,
(22:41):
then that's a problem. That's whenthere needs to be intentional effort to
seek out more positive, meaningful relationshipswith people of color. So the call
to action there is not subtract whitepeople from your life, subtract white friends
from your list, whatever. It'snot about subtracting, it's about adding.
(23:03):
The task instead is that some kindof addition should be made. Because if
the message were that white people aretoxic to be around and there's too many
of them so you need to makesure there are less of them, that
would make me squirm too. That'swhy it's so important that we understand and
we speak about the subject in aclear way so as to not confuse people
(23:26):
that we're promoting prejudice against white peopleor anything like that. Heck to the
no, I don't think we're anywherenear that being the problem, because apparently
white people have a strong preference forwhite people. I could spell out the
consequences of that of never being exposedto people of other races, but that's
kind of what the podcast is allabout. We've talked about that a good
(23:48):
bit, and I think you cangather and assume what the many consequences would
be that no matter how many booksyou read or podcasts you listen to,
without any kind of real life connection, and you're really not in a position
to walk the walk to fully liveout your conviction that diversity is a beautiful
thing. And what you're not puttinginto practice is the idea that people of
(24:11):
color and being around people of coloris worthwhile and it adds something important and
valuable and necessary to your own life. I've always said that I think the
best argument for seeking out diversity isthat you just can't get around the logic
of having a life without diversity,because, especially if you're talking about raising
(24:32):
children and trying to teach them thatwe care about all people may all add
something unique and important to our lives. And yet everything about your life sends
your children the message and yourself themessage that people of color are inessential and
irrelevant. And that's okay, becausethat's just how the cookie has crumbled for
(24:55):
us. You know, they justhappen to not live in our neighborhoods or
go to our schools or be inour friend groups, and that's just the
way things have played out. Butdon't worry, guys, They're great.
Make sure that if you run intothem in the future when you grow up,
you're nice to them. Like thatkind of message to a child.
It's just do as I say,but not as I do. You know,
(25:15):
I say diversity is valuable. Ispeak that, but my actions don't
express that in any way. AndI think when you think of it in
terms of what would a child gatherfrom this, from the fact that our
life is completely white people, everythingon our calendar, everyone who comes to
our home, even if you yourselfdon't have a child, I think that's
(25:36):
just a helpful lens to think interms of because there's no explaining your way
around it. It's just the simpletruths of what they see and what they
don't see, and what they don'tsee is that we value care for care
about people of color. Hello Mariefrom the Future, once more popping in
to reiterate that I'm not I'm reallynot advocating for a very strategic manipulation of
(26:03):
your social circle, like manufacturing theright fraction of diversity. And I know
that's really probably the natural takeaway bybeing like, oh, ninety one out
of one hundred white friends are white. It's yeah, you know what I
mean, I guess one hundred percentof white friends are white. Ninety one
(26:23):
percent of white people's friends are white. I'm not saying like, Okay,
so your step A, B,and C to change that fraction and be
a really, really good anti racist. I don't think these kinds of things
should be quite so prescriptive. Butwhat I'm really trying to get you thinking
(26:44):
about is just how did you getthere? How did we get here?
How is that the status quo?And with that status quo, what is
the message that we're implicitly buying into? You know, like, are the
only relevant people in the world peoplewho are of my race? Are the
only people who I could really trulyrelate to and really really connect with and
(27:04):
enjoy Are all of those people probablyin my own racial group. Like,
That's what I'm trying to prod andpoke and pry at. And that's why
even in the whole episode on diversifyingyour social circle, I don't say look
for a black friend, introduce yourselfto them, and tell them that you
need a black friend, so you'renot going to be prejudiced. No,
(27:26):
it's not those kinds of directives.Instead, it's like, hey, look
at all of the places you goin your world, and try to evaluate
if the places that you happen toprefer happen to be primarily your on racial
group, Like if you just sohappen to like the parks where the kids
playing are white, or you happento prefer the churches where the congregation is
white, and you happen to preferthe private school where the peers are all
(27:49):
white rather than the public school inyour neighborhood where they are less white,
like, those are the things toevaluate and just recognize if you are unintently,
unknowingly taking certain steps to undiversify yoursocial circle. Steps you might not
even relax, steps like choosing theprivate school, choosing the certain church,
(28:11):
choosing a certain neighborhood. There mightbe a real autopilot decision of choosing places
that are mostly white. And that'swhat I'm inviting you to reevaluate. And
that's what I'm inviting you to tryto see and question and reevaluate. I
am not saying prescriptively as an instruction, as a directive, you must go
(28:33):
do these three simple steps. Youmust make a black friend by the end
of this week and have them overfor cookies and warm milk, No,
not saying that. Okay, backinto the episode. Now, my plan
here is not to heap piles ofguilt, but rather just to stir up
some thought. And if you dofeel a burden, if you do feel
(28:56):
conviction, don't do the tailspin intoshame. Don't get lost in your own
thoughts. Instead, once you've gatheredyour thoughts your convictions as quickly as you
can, turn your focus outward tookay, then what should I do?
What should I do differently? Whatshould I do tomorrow? Because that's actually
conducive to a positive impact. That'swhat we want to see more of,
(29:18):
you know, and we need tounderstand and remember that the fact of the
matter is that the majority of whitepeople are only friends with white people.
That's a problem. There's no gettingaround the fact that that's a problem.
And if that's you, then there'sno way to spare yourself from the repercussions
of that. The only way tonot deal with the consequences of prejudice and
(29:42):
in group preference and all of thatis to change that reality. I've got
a whole episode linked in the shownotes called Diversifying your Social Circle. The
dues, the don'ts and the data, and in that episode we get really
practical about what steps you could actuallytake to increase your contact and connection with
(30:03):
people who don't look like you.And the real question in that episode is
how do you do that without veeringtoward tokenism or having a strange ulterior motive.
We're taking these really calculated steps touse a person to help you work
on your own prejudices like that.That's a weird, strange endeavor. It's
not easy to take on in away that's genuine, authentic and really considerate
(30:26):
of the people of color who you'rehoping to meet and connect with. So
in that episode there's some really helpfuland actionable, clear guidance on how to
make that happen. It is notthat we need to subtract white people from
our lives. It is not thatwe need to demonize or devalue white people.
Instead, the rationale is that ifthere is any value in knowing and
(30:52):
loving and living in close proximity withpeople of color, then we should be
really intentional about seeking and valuing peopleof color as well. It's not about
demoting white people devaluing white people.It's about recognizing that people of color are
valuable and worthy and life giving,but our actions and choices aren't lining up
(31:14):
with that. So we need totake steps to reconcile our spoken beliefs,
our values with the reality of ourfriendships in our lives. Those are two
completely different ems, the idea thatwe need to subtract white people versus recognizing
that there's value in adding people ofcolor, and those mos can get blurred
confused from one another. Don't letthat happen. Hear me clearly when I
(31:37):
say the issue is not the friendsthat you have and the relationships that you
formed. That's not a problem.Continue them, enjoy them. What I
want you to consider is the friendshipsyou lack and the relationships you haven't formed,
and why that is and what youcan do to change that. Sound
good? Okay, great? Apparentlythe outro didn't record. It was very
(32:00):
detailed and thorough and thoughtful, butwe're just gonna make it brief and say,
this is an important topic for usto think about because historically, when
people of different races are not inclose relationship with each other and are either
intentionally or unintentionally seeking distance and separationand a word that sounds a whole lot
like separation. Segregation, that's theword. It's not good. So I'm
(32:24):
hopeful that with a little deliberate effort, we could turn a corner and get
it a little bit closer to thatmulti racial, interracial, cross racial,
harmonious society we'd all like to livein. As a reminder, if you
have not yet left a rating andyou would like to do so, now
is a great time because I willdonate one dollar to Equal Justice Initiative.
(32:44):
On your behalf. I hope you'veenjoyed these June Greatest Hit type episodes where
we're going down memory lane all theoldies and goodies. Be sure to check
those out. I mean it whenI say hosting this podcast is truly an
honor and a privilege. Joy andI am so grateful for every single one
of you. And if you onlytake away one thing from this episode,
(33:06):
I hope that change starts with you,
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