May 25, 2023 • 15 mins
In this episode of Know Your Faith, Robert Madrigal shares the fifth part of his Purgatory series entitled "Catholic versus Protestant" (May 23, 2023).
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
You're listening to WCAT radio, yourhome for authentic Catholic programming. Hello and
good day to everyone out there listeningto WCAT radio dot com. My name
is Robert Madrigale, the host ofthis show Know Your Faith, A farm
for those who know the faith,a source for those who wod like to
(00:23):
get to know the faith, AKAUnapologetically Apologetics. On this show we talk
about Catholic apologetics, and we areunapologetic of out our love for God,
our love for Christ, and ourlove for the Catholic Church. Today's show
is the last in a five partseries on purgatory. Purgatory is a Catholic
(00:46):
doctrine. Protestants reject it. Shouldthe average Catholic layperson question the doctrine or
should we remain faithful to what theChurch teach us. I would like to
examine those two questions and talk abit more about the difference between Catholic and
(01:10):
Protestant thought. But before we gointo the night's show, I would like
to start it off right, andthat would be with the prayer. So
we begin our prayer in the nameof the Father and of the Son and
of the Holy Spirit. Emily,Father, we come to you in great
thanksgiving today for this opportunity to cometogether as brothers and sisters in Christ,
so that we may learn more aboutour faith. For the sake of defending
(01:34):
the faith, we ask that yougrant us the strength to explain and defend
our faith with patience and charity,and to see challenges to our faith as
a chance to evangelize and to spreadthe love and peace of Christ to all
whom we meet, and to dothis through the example of self sacrifice that
(01:55):
Christ provides for us through his deathon the cross. We ask this in
the name of Christ our Lord.Ah men, and we'll end our prayer
in the name of the Father andof the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Well, like I said tonight,we're going to examine the Protestant versus
(02:19):
Catholic thought on purgatory. Also,what does the name purgatory have to do
with the existence of purgatory? Isit a man made doctrine? Is it
a man made doctrine of the CatholicChurch that came out of nowhere? The
(02:39):
word purgatory does not appear anywhere inthe Bible. The Catholic Church does not
teach Bible alone. So for usCatholics, we don't have to look through
the Bible to find out what webelieve. As such, we don't have
to find the name purgatory in theBible either. It was the fifteenth century
(03:02):
Council of Florence which gave purgatory hername. So does that mean purgatory does
not exist? Well, when BibleChristians ask why do Catholics believe in purgatory
when it's not in the Bible,it often leads even Catholics to ask if
(03:23):
purgatory exists or not. Now,keep in mind, like I stated before,
parts one, two, and threewere good Bible based apologias that would
be good for using in a debatewith a Protestant. Part four of this
(03:45):
series is more like a catechism tohelp Catholics understand purgatory. And it shows
that purgatory is a doctrine that issee a law, pasically sound and it
is reasonable. And that is aview that I get from the Catholic Church,
(04:06):
not from not something that I baseon the Bible. So first off,
what we Catholics must know is thatpurgatory is a Catholic doctrine. And
I say this because when Catholics rejectthe doctrine or other doctrines of the Catholic
Church. Then they are more inline with Protestants than they are with the
(04:29):
Catholic Church. And I feel thatthe only reason why it's especially important for
us to talk about things like thisis because Protestants have brought our doctrines into
question. The Protestant movement of thefifteen hundreds began to throw some of our
Catholic beliefs out of their Protestant churches, and the belief in purgatory is just
(04:50):
one of them. And they couldeven influence us Catholics, members of the
Catholic Church, especially laypeople, andI and see deacons doing it. For
example, I knew a deacon backhome in Albuquerque, he who told me,
and I quote, the belief inpurgatory is not important. You do
not have to accept it if youwant to be Catholic. And he told
(05:15):
this to me while I was justcoming back into the Catholic Church. I
was maybe three maybe three weeks,maybe a month back to the Catholic Church
after an eighteen year falling away.So I would like to stop right here
and point out why that statement isso very false. So now what I
(05:38):
want to do is examine the catholicicityof the doctrine of purgatory. And to
do so, I'll start with afew questions. What makes the Catholic Church
Catholic and what distinguishes the Catholic Churchfrom say, the Lutherans, the Anglicans,
(05:59):
or from some nondenominational, multidenominational evangelicalChristian church down on seventy first Street.
Is it the buildings that we occupy, the parish office and the chapel.
Well, the Protestants have those things, just as we do. So
do the Muslims, the Buddhists,the Hindus, and the Jews. They
(06:23):
all have buildings that they occupy.They all have offices, chapels, temples,
etc. Etc. So what makesthe Catholic Church different from the Bible
believing churches out there? And whatmakes one religion different from the other.
That's the sava Look, Okay,the Jewish establishment rejects the notion that Jesus
(06:50):
is the prophesied Messiah from their Torahand their Tenaca. Christianity believes that Jesus
is the Hiah from the Old Testament. Those are two opposing beliefs direct opposites.
As a matter of fact. Also, the Qoran tells Muslims that Jesus
(07:16):
is one of the holiest prophets toever exist, but not the son of
God. I believe that's what itsays. Jesus is not the son of
God. I would have to aska Muslim if that's true, though,
But you look at it, andthe Bible tells us that Jesus is the
(07:36):
only begotten Son of God. Again, direct opposites. And I've met Bible
believing Christians who who looked me straightin the eye and tell me purgatory doesn't
exist. Now, the point thatI'm trying to make here is that it
(07:57):
is our beliefs that differ. So, No, the buildings that we occupy
are not what makes us Catholic.The buildings are distinctly Catholic while we occupy
them. Yes, Yet if aCatholic parish church is closed down and the
statues and crucifixes are all taken down, the building can easily be converted to
(08:24):
an Anglican church or a Lutheran church, where the statues of Saint Peter's and
Paul might be replaced by statues ofOliver Cromwell and George Washington and Of course
those are two great military leaders,to be sure. But the point is
(08:46):
that the buildings are made up ofbrick and mortar, wood and knells,
sheet rock and plaster. It isour beliefs that we hold deer that makes
us Catholic. So to reject thebelief in purgatory is Protestant, and to
accept the belief in purgatory is Catholic. Here again is another example of two
(09:11):
opposite beliefs. So for a Catholicto reject the belief in purgatory means that
they are taking up a Protestant stanceopposing a Catholic doctrine, and to accept
it makes them truly Catholics. Nowwith that comparison, the the differences actually
(09:33):
become clear. Opposing doctrines make updifferent churches and even different religions opposing doctrines
Protestant and Catholic, Jewish and Christian, et etc. So now with that
said, I would like to takea look at faithfulness. I'll start by
saying that I believe that faithfulness isvery important, especially when we talk about
(10:00):
the doctrinal differences between Protestants and Catholics. Should we accept the Catholic Church for
her word or should we question whatwe're taught? Well, when it comes
to faith, I say that weneed to be faithful to our Catholic beliefs
(10:22):
one percent of the time. AndI know sometimes that bothers people, well
some people. So please let meexplain. What would you think about a
person who said that they believe inGod when they needed money or some other
material thing. Otherwise God does notexist? Will either you believe in God
or you don't. One cannot pickand choose when to believe in God and
(10:48):
when not to. Well, that'snot a good demonstration of faith anyways,
I mean, is it? Orhow about this? They're getting ready to
be married within the next month orso, and your fiance tells you I
believe in being faithful. I believein being faithful to one another ninety eight
percent of the time, while itwould be the other two percent of the
(11:11):
time that would worry you, wouldn'tit? Two percent unfaithful is unfaithful?
Even if ninety eight percent of thetime you are faithful, that's not a
good demonstration of faithfulness. And Iwould hope that every Christian would agree in
a marriage, there's either faithful orthere's unfaithful. There's no in between.
(11:35):
The belief that we can sometimes befaithful is not faith at all. We
should not treat our faith in thechurch any different, and it might be
more important because we are taking ourimmortal souls into our own hands when we're
talking about salvation here. Oh,sometimes I'm Catholic and other times Protestant,
(12:00):
depending on how I feel or ifit suits me on a particular day.
Well, personally, I would ratherbe remembered in history like a saint like
Saint Thomas Aquinas a doctor of theChurch who wrote the Suma and made a
significant contribution to the Catholic Church,as opposed to going down in history as
(12:22):
someone like Father Martin Luther, aman who caused the greatest and largest divisions
in the Church and in Christian history. Well, that's all we have time
for today, so I have tosay goodbye to everyone out there listening to
WCAT radio dot com. Please joinus once again for our next show where
(12:46):
we will switch gears just a littlebit and talk about our next issue when
it comes to misunderstood Catholic doctrines,and that would be infant baptism. I
believe we can find the word baptismbetween the lines in the pages of the
New Testament when it comes to infantbaptism. And I'm looking forward to spending
(13:07):
this time with everyone out there whoare interested in listening to what I have
to say and to hear from youas well. Please email me at Madrigal
dot Robert at ymail dot com,and my last name is spelled m A
D R I G A L.That's Madrigal dot Robert at ymail dot com.
And please feel free to send meany questions and even more importantly comments.
(13:31):
If I say something wrong, I'llbe the first to admit it.
So I like to call out toeveryone out there listening to pray for falling
Catholics so that they may return tothe Catholic Church. And please pray a
rosary for the church suffering, andthat is the souls in purgatory will end
the shaw off right, and thatwould be with the prayer. We'll begin
our prayer in the name of theFather and of the Son and of the
Holy Spirit. Eamily Father, wecome to you in great thanksgiving today for
(13:54):
this opportunity to come together as brothersand sisters in Christ, so that we
may learn more about our faith.For the sake of defending the faith,
we ask that you grant us thestrength to explain and defend our faith with
patience and charity, and to seechallenges to our faith. Has a chance
to evangelize and to spread the loveand peace of Christ to all whom we
(14:18):
meet, and to do this throughthe example of self sacrifice that Christ provides
for us through his death on theCross. And we ask this in the
name of Christ, our Lord.Amen. And we'll end our prayer in
the name of the Father and ofthe Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Okay, so thank you for joiningus. We'll see you next show,
(14:39):
and may God be with you ineverything you do. Goodbye and God bless.
Hello, God's Beloved. I'm AnnabelMosley, author, professor of theology
and host of then Sings My Souland Destination Sainthood on WCAT Radio. I
invite you to us an inn andfind inspiration along this sacred journey we're traveling
(15:03):
together to make our lives a masterpiece. End with God's grace, become saints.
Join me Annabel Mosley for Then SingsMy Soul and Destination Sainthood on WCAT
Radio. God bless you remember youare never alone. God is always we
(15:24):
heard. Thank you for listening toa production of WCAT Radio. Please join
us an omission of evangelization. Anddon't forget Love lifts up when knowledge takes flight.
You're listening to WCAT radio, yourhome for authentic Catholic programming. Hello and
good day to everyone out there listeningto WCAT radio dot com. My name
is Robert Madrigale, the host ofthis show Know Your Faith, A farm
for those who know the faith,a source for those who wod like to
(00:23):
get to know the faith, AKAUnapologetically Apologetics. On this show we talk
about Catholic apologetics, and we areunapologetic of out our love for God,
our love for Christ, and ourlove for the Catholic Church. Today's show
is the last in a five partseries on purgatory. Purgatory is a Catholic
(00:46):
doctrine. Protestants reject it. Shouldthe average Catholic layperson question the doctrine or
should we remain faithful to what theChurch teach us. I would like to
examine those two questions and talk abit more about the difference between Catholic and
(01:10):
Protestant thought. But before we gointo the night's show, I would like
to start it off right, andthat would be with the prayer. So
we begin our prayer in the nameof the Father and of the Son and
of the Holy Spirit. Emily,Father, we come to you in great
thanksgiving today for this opportunity to cometogether as brothers and sisters in Christ,
so that we may learn more aboutour faith. For the sake of defending
(01:34):
the faith, we ask that yougrant us the strength to explain and defend
our faith with patience and charity,and to see challenges to our faith as
a chance to evangelize and to spreadthe love and peace of Christ to all
whom we meet, and to dothis through the example of self sacrifice that
(01:55):
Christ provides for us through his deathon the cross. We ask this in
the name of Christ our Lord.Ah men, and we'll end our prayer
in the name of the Father andof the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Well, like I said tonight,we're going to examine the Protestant versus
(02:19):
Catholic thought on purgatory. Also,what does the name purgatory have to do
with the existence of purgatory? Isit a man made doctrine? Is it
a man made doctrine of the CatholicChurch that came out of nowhere? The
(02:39):
word purgatory does not appear anywhere inthe Bible. The Catholic Church does not
teach Bible alone. So for usCatholics, we don't have to look through
the Bible to find out what webelieve. As such, we don't have
to find the name purgatory in theBible either. It was the fifteenth century
(03:02):
Council of Florence which gave purgatory hername. So does that mean purgatory does
not exist? Well, when BibleChristians ask why do Catholics believe in purgatory
when it's not in the Bible,it often leads even Catholics to ask if
(03:23):
purgatory exists or not. Now,keep in mind, like I stated before,
parts one, two, and threewere good Bible based apologias that would
be good for using in a debatewith a Protestant. Part four of this
(03:45):
series is more like a catechism tohelp Catholics understand purgatory. And it shows
that purgatory is a doctrine that issee a law, pasically sound and it
is reasonable. And that is aview that I get from the Catholic Church,
(04:06):
not from not something that I baseon the Bible. So first off,
what we Catholics must know is thatpurgatory is a Catholic doctrine. And
I say this because when Catholics rejectthe doctrine or other doctrines of the Catholic
Church. Then they are more inline with Protestants than they are with the
(04:29):
Catholic Church. And I feel thatthe only reason why it's especially important for
us to talk about things like thisis because Protestants have brought our doctrines into
question. The Protestant movement of thefifteen hundreds began to throw some of our
Catholic beliefs out of their Protestant churches, and the belief in purgatory is just
(04:50):
one of them. And they couldeven influence us Catholics, members of the
Catholic Church, especially laypeople, andI and see deacons doing it. For
example, I knew a deacon backhome in Albuquerque, he who told me,
and I quote, the belief inpurgatory is not important. You do
not have to accept it if youwant to be Catholic. And he told
(05:15):
this to me while I was justcoming back into the Catholic Church. I
was maybe three maybe three weeks,maybe a month back to the Catholic Church
after an eighteen year falling away.So I would like to stop right here
and point out why that statement isso very false. So now what I
(05:38):
want to do is examine the catholicicityof the doctrine of purgatory. And to
do so, I'll start with afew questions. What makes the Catholic Church
Catholic and what distinguishes the Catholic Churchfrom say, the Lutherans, the Anglicans,
(05:59):
or from some nondenominational, multidenominational evangelicalChristian church down on seventy first Street.
Is it the buildings that we occupy, the parish office and the chapel.
Well, the Protestants have those things, just as we do. So
do the Muslims, the Buddhists,the Hindus, and the Jews. They
(06:23):
all have buildings that they occupy.They all have offices, chapels, temples,
etc. Etc. So what makesthe Catholic Church different from the Bible
believing churches out there? And whatmakes one religion different from the other.
That's the sava Look, Okay,the Jewish establishment rejects the notion that Jesus
(06:50):
is the prophesied Messiah from their Torahand their Tenaca. Christianity believes that Jesus
is the Hiah from the Old Testament. Those are two opposing beliefs direct opposites.
As a matter of fact. Also, the Qoran tells Muslims that Jesus
(07:16):
is one of the holiest prophets toever exist, but not the son of
God. I believe that's what itsays. Jesus is not the son of
God. I would have to aska Muslim if that's true, though,
But you look at it, andthe Bible tells us that Jesus is the
(07:36):
only begotten Son of God. Again, direct opposites. And I've met Bible
believing Christians who who looked me straightin the eye and tell me purgatory doesn't
exist. Now, the point thatI'm trying to make here is that it
(07:57):
is our beliefs that differ. So, No, the buildings that we occupy
are not what makes us Catholic.The buildings are distinctly Catholic while we occupy
them. Yes, Yet if aCatholic parish church is closed down and the
statues and crucifixes are all taken down, the building can easily be converted to
(08:24):
an Anglican church or a Lutheran church, where the statues of Saint Peter's and
Paul might be replaced by statues ofOliver Cromwell and George Washington and Of course
those are two great military leaders,to be sure. But the point is
(08:46):
that the buildings are made up ofbrick and mortar, wood and knells,
sheet rock and plaster. It isour beliefs that we hold deer that makes
us Catholic. So to reject thebelief in purgatory is Protestant, and to
accept the belief in purgatory is Catholic. Here again is another example of two
(09:11):
opposite beliefs. So for a Catholicto reject the belief in purgatory means that
they are taking up a Protestant stanceopposing a Catholic doctrine, and to accept
it makes them truly Catholics. Nowwith that comparison, the the differences actually
(09:33):
become clear. Opposing doctrines make updifferent churches and even different religions opposing doctrines
Protestant and Catholic, Jewish and Christian, et etc. So now with that
said, I would like to takea look at faithfulness. I'll start by
saying that I believe that faithfulness isvery important, especially when we talk about
(10:00):
the doctrinal differences between Protestants and Catholics. Should we accept the Catholic Church for
her word or should we question whatwe're taught? Well, when it comes
to faith, I say that weneed to be faithful to our Catholic beliefs
(10:22):
one percent of the time. AndI know sometimes that bothers people, well
some people. So please let meexplain. What would you think about a
person who said that they believe inGod when they needed money or some other
material thing. Otherwise God does notexist? Will either you believe in God
or you don't. One cannot pickand choose when to believe in God and
(10:48):
when not to. Well, that'snot a good demonstration of faith anyways,
I mean, is it? Orhow about this? They're getting ready to
be married within the next month orso, and your fiance tells you I
believe in being faithful. I believein being faithful to one another ninety eight
percent of the time, while itwould be the other two percent of the
(11:11):
time that would worry you, wouldn'tit? Two percent unfaithful is unfaithful?
Even if ninety eight percent of thetime you are faithful, that's not a
good demonstration of faithfulness. And Iwould hope that every Christian would agree in
a marriage, there's either faithful orthere's unfaithful. There's no in between.
(11:35):
The belief that we can sometimes befaithful is not faith at all. We
should not treat our faith in thechurch any different, and it might be
more important because we are taking ourimmortal souls into our own hands when we're
talking about salvation here. Oh,sometimes I'm Catholic and other times Protestant,
(12:00):
depending on how I feel or ifit suits me on a particular day.
Well, personally, I would ratherbe remembered in history like a saint like
Saint Thomas Aquinas a doctor of theChurch who wrote the Suma and made a
significant contribution to the Catholic Church,as opposed to going down in history as
(12:22):
someone like Father Martin Luther, aman who caused the greatest and largest divisions
in the Church and in Christian history. Well, that's all we have time
for today, so I have tosay goodbye to everyone out there listening to
WCAT radio dot com. Please joinus once again for our next show where
(12:46):
we will switch gears just a littlebit and talk about our next issue when
it comes to misunderstood Catholic doctrines,and that would be infant baptism. I
believe we can find the word baptismbetween the lines in the pages of the
New Testament when it comes to infantbaptism. And I'm looking forward to spending
(13:07):
this time with everyone out there whoare interested in listening to what I have
to say and to hear from youas well. Please email me at Madrigal
dot Robert at ymail dot com,and my last name is spelled m A
D R I G A L.That's Madrigal dot Robert at ymail dot com.
And please feel free to send meany questions and even more importantly comments.
(13:31):
If I say something wrong, I'llbe the first to admit it.
So I like to call out toeveryone out there listening to pray for falling
Catholics so that they may return tothe Catholic Church. And please pray a
rosary for the church suffering, andthat is the souls in purgatory will end
the shaw off right, and thatwould be with the prayer. We'll begin
our prayer in the name of theFather and of the Son and of the
Holy Spirit. Eamily Father, wecome to you in great thanksgiving today for
(13:54):
this opportunity to come together as brothersand sisters in Christ, so that we
may learn more about our faith.For the sake of defending the faith,
we ask that you grant us thestrength to explain and defend our faith with
patience and charity, and to seechallenges to our faith. Has a chance
to evangelize and to spread the loveand peace of Christ to all whom we
(14:18):
meet, and to do this throughthe example of self sacrifice that Christ provides
for us through his death on theCross. And we ask this in the
name of Christ, our Lord.Amen. And we'll end our prayer in
the name of the Father and ofthe Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Okay, so thank you for joiningus. We'll see you next show,
(14:39):
and may God be with you ineverything you do. Goodbye and God bless.
Hello, God's Beloved. I'm AnnabelMosley, author, professor of theology
and host of then Sings My Souland Destination Sainthood on WCAT Radio. I
invite you to us an inn andfind inspiration along this sacred journey we're traveling
(15:03):
together to make our lives a masterpiece. End with God's grace, become saints.
Join me Annabel Mosley for Then SingsMy Soul and Destination Sainthood on WCAT
Radio. God bless you remember youare never alone. God is always we
(15:24):
heard. Thank you for listening toa production of WCAT Radio. Please join
us an omission of evangelization. Anddon't forget Love lifts up when knowledge takes flight.
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