December 28, 2024 • 14 mins
Ward 3 councillor Renaldo Agostino joins Jon Liedtke on AM800 CKLW to discuss the City of Windsor axing the new Housing & Homelessness Help Hub (H4) location on Wellington due to excessive costs, the need to secure another new location (potentially outside of Ward 3), and uncertainty of funding from upper levels of government due to two expected elections and potential changes of government.
This interview aired on AM800 CKLW
This interview aired on AM800 CKLW
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome back to AM eight hundred CKLW. John Lydkey here
hosting Live and Local, the last one of twenty twenty four.
And it was a long journey to get towards a
new home for the H four hub over at seven
hundred Wellington Avenue. But we found out recently that the
(00:24):
city is no longer pursuing that land acquisition due to
the cost associated with it, and it would be a
whole mess to go down the route of expropriation and
it would take years. And this is obviously an issue
on our streets where we're looking to have this. It's
not going to be solved overnight, but at least dealt
with in more of a meaningful way sooner than later.
(00:46):
Joining me right now to discuss the scuttling of this location,
what it might mean moving forward, the state of homelessness
and our downtown core and what to expect next year.
Is word three. Counselor who you hear often on AM
eight hundred CKLW. Ronaldo August You know, Hey, Ronaldo, how
you doing?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I'm good, John, Thanks for having me, how very.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Well, thanks for joining me here on this last episode
of Live and Local. So just from your perspective, From
the city's perspective, what happened here? How did this all
fall apart?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Well, there's not much I can say for the actual
logistics of what went down. Of course, this is a
lot of in camera stuff, but I think that the
appetite for counsel to continue on that site really when
you looked at the numbers and it just didn't make
sense anymore. And that's the issue that we're dealing with here,
(01:39):
is that as a municipality we deal with the brunt
of mental health, of homelessness, of addiction issues, but we
just don't have the money. And when you see the
road ahead with the changes happening provincially and federally, that
money doesn't look like it's coming. And there's only so
(01:59):
much we can put at the feet of the municipal
taxpayer before they look twice and say, well, wait a second,
this was you know, forty to sixty. Now some estimates
are bringing it closer to a ninety million dollar project. Wow,
if you don't have the money right, then then what
are you doing right? And when you see the provinces
making changes, heading toward towards the hard hubs, which I
(02:23):
think will make a significant positive difference in our community.
But we have no idea where the federal government's going
over the next year or two. And with that being said,
without having the money in the bank besides what we
put in so far, we can't make commitments not knowing
whether it's going to work or not. So we've got
(02:44):
to shift our plans well.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
And that's not saying that you know, there's nothing that's
being done on this file. We found out earlier this
month that the city has announced in additional seventy three
spaces that have been made available at the H four Hub,
which is again located at four hundred Wy Dott Street East.
But this is one of those problems, Ronaldo, when you
I mean you've dealt with this in private business and
in far more larger numbers now at the city level,
(03:08):
but with inflation, and you put together a plan and
you say, hey, we we got to plan this all out.
We're starting today, We're going to start construction at some
point in five years. But you know, costs continue to
go up year after year, and this has been a
wild couple of years when it comes to the construction
industry and supply chain and issues, the whole the whole
(03:28):
thing's been just a little wild.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah, when it comes to me in downtown and what
I'm looking at and what I want to see change
and the change that's currently happening in our society. You know,
I think people are frustrated. People want to be empathetic,
but at the same time, people don't want to see
open drug use anymore. People don't want to have to
step over needles and feces when they're taking their kids
(03:50):
to school. I think that the years of empathy have
now been replaced where we're going to tolerate a little
less and I think it's you're going to see some
tough love, which I'm totally for happening over the next
few years because just the recent ruling in Hamilton that
that happened where you know, the judge was very different
(04:13):
than the Water ruling, where the judge was saying, well,
so you can't sit around all day, you can't set
up an encampment, and you can't sit there and not
be motivated to do anything positive to make changes in
your life. Right, we can't let human beings sit around
and rot intense and sit around in public spaces and
using drugs and really making people afraid to go to
(04:37):
go to our public spaces and some of our businesses.
I think a lot of that is going to change
over the next few years. So with that being said,
what can we do as far as locations? And for me,
I look at the Downtown Core and my entire focus
has now shifted to finding a new home for the
Downtown Mission, somewhere where the Downtown Mission can succeed with
(04:58):
its people but not harm the neighbors around them. And
that's what's been happening in the Core over the last decade.
As the problems have escalated. The Mission is really handcuffed
because of their facility, because of their location, and I
think that's going to be my number one my number
(05:19):
one job over the next couple of years is trying
to find them a better location.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
You know, you bring up empathy, and I think that
a lot of people still have empathy for people who
are in need of help, for people who are on
the street in need of shelter, for people who whether
they're addicted to substances or use them often and it
leads to detrimental circumstances. The empathy is still there, But
I don't think the empathy came with a buy in
(05:45):
of what it manifested into looking like on the streets.
As you said, the open drug use, the feelings of
being worried or concerned of your physical well being. I
think too. In British Columbia there was a story about
how at a hospital there was a nurse who was told,
you can't breastfeed for the next two months because you've
(06:06):
been exposed to fentanyl because we allow people to smoke
inside the hospital.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
That isn't that's not empathy. That is a.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Unfortunate evolution of a certain set of circumstances.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
But I don't know all some of the stuff you're
seeing out there is stupidity, and you know, I'll call it.
It is like when Justice Valente and the Water said that,
you know, a shelter cannot be truly accessible unless you
allow on site drug use.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
What we do, it's absurd.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
What are what are we doing that?
Speaker 1 (06:37):
You're spot on with that, because it's really the only
way to put it. So what are we doing here?
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Then?
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Now, knowing that this is going to be delayed, We've
got a provincial election that's coming up, in a federal
election probably within the next six to eight months, is
this thing scuttled in choosing a new location until after that,
or are we going to try to get a new
location and then wait for the funding to start to flow.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
So I think for Council for the city, I think
there I already know that there are other ideas for
certain locations, and I know that we're also looking beyond
the two kilometer radius that was originally brought forward to us,
because if you don't have the space within those two kilometers,
(07:20):
then what do you do to you? You know, we
tried the route of finding a space within the two kilometers.
Not everybody was happy we tried. The appropriation didn't look
like it was going to work out. The only thing
you could do is either start looking for new spaces
or start dealing with the immediate issues at hand. And
while the city and council and our departments continue to
(07:43):
work tirelessly to support those in need, whether it's at
age four or whether it's a Downtown mission or the
women's shelter, everybody doing the heavy lifting as far as helping.
I think my responsibility to the people of downtown Winsors
really defined a new home for the Downtown Mission, and
that's something I've already started on.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah, well, we do know that the seven hundred well
into location did bring with it some concerns from residents
and from ward to councilor Fabio Costante who brought a
petition forward. So those residents are you know, probably gonna
be happy that this isn't moving forward at that location.
We'll find out at some point where a new location
is going to be. Let's shift focus though to that
(08:21):
Downtown Mission conversation, because I know that there have been
a number of issues in the downtown core as a
result of their new location there on o Lett Avenue
that have seemed to be increasing in frequency, and I
would love to get your perspective on that.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Yeah, it's you know, it's a low barrier shelter, and
what that means is people who are suffering, for our
hardest hit are used that facility. And it just happens
to be smack dab at the entrance way, at the
gateway to our downtown core. It happens to be around
the corner from the beer store, right. It happens to
(08:58):
be in a certain location where it doesn't help anybody.
But it's not their fault. That's where they are and
they're doing God's work trying to keep the lid on
the boiling water which continues to overflow. So we got
to move that pot because that location for what they're
trying to do, there's just not suitable. And I tell
(09:20):
people this all the time. It's like they're trying to
play soccer on a hockey rink. It's not going to work, right.
You're just sliding around everywhere, and you're trying to maintain
something that you just can't maintain. And I'm there every
day and I see the issues. I saw a street
fight in the middle of all that avenue the other
day as I was driving home. Because there are certain
(09:41):
people and it's hard because, again, especially during the holidays,
you try and have empathy, You try and have sympathy,
you try and lead with your heart rather than with
your hands. But then you see those that are out
there that just don't want to follow the rules, that
want things the way that they want them, that could
care less about the community around them or the people
that are even trying to help them. Right, they're so
(10:04):
far gone that they need some severe therapy. And those
are the ones that are causing the issues in the neighborhood, right,
And so it's easy, and I see it all the time.
People say, well, you can't use things like the notwithstanding class.
You've got to give people somewhere to stay. You've got
to let people camp out if they feel that the
(10:26):
shelters that are there don't suit their needs. No, you can't,
because what you're seeing on the streets is it's a
breakdown of family values. It's a breakdown of family right
where nobody's there pushing you to do better. And these encampments,
not only do they not promote you to get up.
You know, when you go to a shelter, for example, John,
(10:47):
you go, you have a meal, but you're not allowed
to sit around inside the shelter all day and do
as you please. You've got to try and do something
better for yourself. You've got to get up and move around.
You can't just sit there. The people that don't want
to do that will I end up most likely many
times in the encampments because they can't sit there all day.
They can use narcotics all day, they can deal be
(11:07):
in the depths of their depression, right, they can be
in the depths of their trauma, and then their only
family around them are people that are suffering from the
exact same thing. Right, so they all become this group
that is just that are happy to be where they are,
but it destroys everything around them and it doesn't help
(11:28):
them get better. And hopefully with a new provincial government
or sorry, a new provincial election where this is going
to be I believe one of the hot topics, and
a new federal government where I think there's going to
be a change. They're going to deal with some of
those systemic issues that us as a municipality have zero
(11:48):
control over. Right, I get it all the time, people
accounts or how come you're allowing this? How can you
allowing that? Listen, if this is not something I have
any control whatsoever, I'll try and deal with it for
you as best as I can. But I don't say
a no to anybody. But I can't. I don't have
the power to do it. Only the provincial government, only
the federal government. Those are the people that can change
(12:09):
the wos. Those are the people that have the budgets
and the money. Right, we can build anything you want
for the city of Windsor, but it'll come at an
expense of the taxpayer and everyone else. So when people
get angry at us for building nice things like a
hockey rank or something like that. It's like, well, why
aren't you building more shelters? Build We can't be a
city full of shelters that are on the time of
(12:30):
the taxpayer, because then nobody's gonna want to live here.
And if nobody lives here, how are you going to
collect taxes? Right, So it's a very complicated and interesting situation,
but I do believe that we're doing the best out
of many many cities in Ontario, especially the ones that
I keep tracked on. You know, we're lucky that we
have a city in the council that still cares about
(12:51):
their downtown core. Other cities have gone to the wasteline
when it comes to their downtowns, and now it's starting
to affect their neighborhoods too. So we've got to stay strong.
We've got we're going to show some tough love so
that people that come after us can show some love.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
You know, Sympathy, empathy, and passion are all virtues that
we express and extol and embody. But it also isn't
doing anybody who is in need of help any good
to allow for the status quo to persist the way
that it does. We know that the status quo before
(13:25):
these changes came into effect didn't work. These changes came
into effect per making things permissive and permitted, and it's
not working now, and we're gonna have to find out
something new to get to and maybe this heart model
is going to work, and maybe we'll get some federal
funding flowing down and that'd be great. But until then,
thank you so much for your time to chat about this,
and I know that you're keeping your eye on this one.
(13:47):
You're out there on the streets every single day. It's
incredible to see you. Thanks so much, Ronaldo, thank you.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
And happy all today to all the listeners out there, Thank.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
You, and happy New Year to you as well. Ward
three Counselor Ronaldo Agostino, you're listening to me, John Lidke
here on AM eight hundred KLW. We will be back
right after this
Welcome back to AM eight hundred CKLW. John Lydkey here
hosting Live and Local, the last one of twenty twenty four.
And it was a long journey to get towards a
new home for the H four hub over at seven
hundred Wellington Avenue. But we found out recently that the
(00:24):
city is no longer pursuing that land acquisition due to
the cost associated with it, and it would be a
whole mess to go down the route of expropriation and
it would take years. And this is obviously an issue
on our streets where we're looking to have this. It's
not going to be solved overnight, but at least dealt
with in more of a meaningful way sooner than later.
(00:46):
Joining me right now to discuss the scuttling of this location,
what it might mean moving forward, the state of homelessness
and our downtown core and what to expect next year.
Is word three. Counselor who you hear often on AM
eight hundred CKLW. Ronaldo August You know, Hey, Ronaldo, how
you doing?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I'm good, John, Thanks for having me, how very.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Well, thanks for joining me here on this last episode
of Live and Local. So just from your perspective, From
the city's perspective, what happened here? How did this all
fall apart?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Well, there's not much I can say for the actual
logistics of what went down. Of course, this is a
lot of in camera stuff, but I think that the
appetite for counsel to continue on that site really when
you looked at the numbers and it just didn't make
sense anymore. And that's the issue that we're dealing with here,
(01:39):
is that as a municipality we deal with the brunt
of mental health, of homelessness, of addiction issues, but we
just don't have the money. And when you see the
road ahead with the changes happening provincially and federally, that
money doesn't look like it's coming. And there's only so
(01:59):
much we can put at the feet of the municipal
taxpayer before they look twice and say, well, wait a second,
this was you know, forty to sixty. Now some estimates
are bringing it closer to a ninety million dollar project. Wow,
if you don't have the money right, then then what
are you doing right? And when you see the provinces
making changes, heading toward towards the hard hubs, which I
(02:23):
think will make a significant positive difference in our community.
But we have no idea where the federal government's going
over the next year or two. And with that being said,
without having the money in the bank besides what we
put in so far, we can't make commitments not knowing
whether it's going to work or not. So we've got
(02:44):
to shift our plans well.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
And that's not saying that you know, there's nothing that's
being done on this file. We found out earlier this
month that the city has announced in additional seventy three
spaces that have been made available at the H four Hub,
which is again located at four hundred Wy Dott Street East.
But this is one of those problems, Ronaldo, when you
I mean you've dealt with this in private business and
in far more larger numbers now at the city level,
(03:08):
but with inflation, and you put together a plan and
you say, hey, we we got to plan this all out.
We're starting today, We're going to start construction at some
point in five years. But you know, costs continue to
go up year after year, and this has been a
wild couple of years when it comes to the construction
industry and supply chain and issues, the whole the whole
(03:28):
thing's been just a little wild.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah, when it comes to me in downtown and what
I'm looking at and what I want to see change
and the change that's currently happening in our society. You know,
I think people are frustrated. People want to be empathetic,
but at the same time, people don't want to see
open drug use anymore. People don't want to have to
step over needles and feces when they're taking their kids
(03:50):
to school. I think that the years of empathy have
now been replaced where we're going to tolerate a little
less and I think it's you're going to see some
tough love, which I'm totally for happening over the next
few years because just the recent ruling in Hamilton that
that happened where you know, the judge was very different
(04:13):
than the Water ruling, where the judge was saying, well,
so you can't sit around all day, you can't set
up an encampment, and you can't sit there and not
be motivated to do anything positive to make changes in
your life. Right, we can't let human beings sit around
and rot intense and sit around in public spaces and
using drugs and really making people afraid to go to
(04:37):
go to our public spaces and some of our businesses.
I think a lot of that is going to change
over the next few years. So with that being said,
what can we do as far as locations? And for me,
I look at the Downtown Core and my entire focus
has now shifted to finding a new home for the
Downtown Mission, somewhere where the Downtown Mission can succeed with
(04:58):
its people but not harm the neighbors around them. And
that's what's been happening in the Core over the last decade.
As the problems have escalated. The Mission is really handcuffed
because of their facility, because of their location, and I
think that's going to be my number one my number
(05:19):
one job over the next couple of years is trying
to find them a better location.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
You know, you bring up empathy, and I think that
a lot of people still have empathy for people who
are in need of help, for people who are on
the street in need of shelter, for people who whether
they're addicted to substances or use them often and it
leads to detrimental circumstances. The empathy is still there, But
I don't think the empathy came with a buy in
(05:45):
of what it manifested into looking like on the streets.
As you said, the open drug use, the feelings of
being worried or concerned of your physical well being. I
think too. In British Columbia there was a story about
how at a hospital there was a nurse who was told,
you can't breastfeed for the next two months because you've
(06:06):
been exposed to fentanyl because we allow people to smoke
inside the hospital.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
That isn't that's not empathy. That is a.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Unfortunate evolution of a certain set of circumstances.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
But I don't know all some of the stuff you're
seeing out there is stupidity, and you know, I'll call it.
It is like when Justice Valente and the Water said that,
you know, a shelter cannot be truly accessible unless you
allow on site drug use.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
What we do, it's absurd.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
What are what are we doing that?
Speaker 1 (06:37):
You're spot on with that, because it's really the only
way to put it. So what are we doing here?
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Then?
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Now, knowing that this is going to be delayed, We've
got a provincial election that's coming up, in a federal
election probably within the next six to eight months, is
this thing scuttled in choosing a new location until after that,
or are we going to try to get a new
location and then wait for the funding to start to flow.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
So I think for Council for the city, I think
there I already know that there are other ideas for
certain locations, and I know that we're also looking beyond
the two kilometer radius that was originally brought forward to us,
because if you don't have the space within those two kilometers,
(07:20):
then what do you do to you? You know, we
tried the route of finding a space within the two kilometers.
Not everybody was happy we tried. The appropriation didn't look
like it was going to work out. The only thing
you could do is either start looking for new spaces
or start dealing with the immediate issues at hand. And
while the city and council and our departments continue to
(07:43):
work tirelessly to support those in need, whether it's at
age four or whether it's a Downtown mission or the
women's shelter, everybody doing the heavy lifting as far as helping.
I think my responsibility to the people of downtown Winsors
really defined a new home for the Downtown Mission, and
that's something I've already started on.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah, well, we do know that the seven hundred well
into location did bring with it some concerns from residents
and from ward to councilor Fabio Costante who brought a
petition forward. So those residents are you know, probably gonna
be happy that this isn't moving forward at that location.
We'll find out at some point where a new location
is going to be. Let's shift focus though to that
(08:21):
Downtown Mission conversation, because I know that there have been
a number of issues in the downtown core as a
result of their new location there on o Lett Avenue
that have seemed to be increasing in frequency, and I
would love to get your perspective on that.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Yeah, it's you know, it's a low barrier shelter, and
what that means is people who are suffering, for our
hardest hit are used that facility. And it just happens
to be smack dab at the entrance way, at the
gateway to our downtown core. It happens to be around
the corner from the beer store, right. It happens to
(08:58):
be in a certain location where it doesn't help anybody.
But it's not their fault. That's where they are and
they're doing God's work trying to keep the lid on
the boiling water which continues to overflow. So we got
to move that pot because that location for what they're
trying to do, there's just not suitable. And I tell
(09:20):
people this all the time. It's like they're trying to
play soccer on a hockey rink. It's not going to work, right.
You're just sliding around everywhere, and you're trying to maintain
something that you just can't maintain. And I'm there every
day and I see the issues. I saw a street
fight in the middle of all that avenue the other
day as I was driving home. Because there are certain
(09:41):
people and it's hard because, again, especially during the holidays,
you try and have empathy, You try and have sympathy,
you try and lead with your heart rather than with
your hands. But then you see those that are out
there that just don't want to follow the rules, that
want things the way that they want them, that could
care less about the community around them or the people
that are even trying to help them. Right, they're so
(10:04):
far gone that they need some severe therapy. And those
are the ones that are causing the issues in the neighborhood, right,
And so it's easy, and I see it all the time.
People say, well, you can't use things like the notwithstanding class.
You've got to give people somewhere to stay. You've got
to let people camp out if they feel that the
(10:26):
shelters that are there don't suit their needs. No, you can't,
because what you're seeing on the streets is it's a
breakdown of family values. It's a breakdown of family right
where nobody's there pushing you to do better. And these encampments,
not only do they not promote you to get up.
You know, when you go to a shelter, for example, John,
(10:47):
you go, you have a meal, but you're not allowed
to sit around inside the shelter all day and do
as you please. You've got to try and do something
better for yourself. You've got to get up and move around.
You can't just sit there. The people that don't want
to do that will I end up most likely many
times in the encampments because they can't sit there all day.
They can use narcotics all day, they can deal be
(11:07):
in the depths of their depression, right, they can be
in the depths of their trauma, and then their only
family around them are people that are suffering from the
exact same thing. Right, so they all become this group
that is just that are happy to be where they are,
but it destroys everything around them and it doesn't help
(11:28):
them get better. And hopefully with a new provincial government
or sorry, a new provincial election where this is going
to be I believe one of the hot topics, and
a new federal government where I think there's going to
be a change. They're going to deal with some of
those systemic issues that us as a municipality have zero
(11:48):
control over. Right, I get it all the time, people
accounts or how come you're allowing this? How can you
allowing that? Listen, if this is not something I have
any control whatsoever, I'll try and deal with it for
you as best as I can. But I don't say
a no to anybody. But I can't. I don't have
the power to do it. Only the provincial government, only
the federal government. Those are the people that can change
(12:09):
the wos. Those are the people that have the budgets
and the money. Right, we can build anything you want
for the city of Windsor, but it'll come at an
expense of the taxpayer and everyone else. So when people
get angry at us for building nice things like a
hockey rank or something like that. It's like, well, why
aren't you building more shelters? Build We can't be a
city full of shelters that are on the time of
(12:30):
the taxpayer, because then nobody's gonna want to live here.
And if nobody lives here, how are you going to
collect taxes? Right, So it's a very complicated and interesting situation,
but I do believe that we're doing the best out
of many many cities in Ontario, especially the ones that
I keep tracked on. You know, we're lucky that we
have a city in the council that still cares about
(12:51):
their downtown core. Other cities have gone to the wasteline
when it comes to their downtowns, and now it's starting
to affect their neighborhoods too. So we've got to stay strong.
We've got we're going to show some tough love so
that people that come after us can show some love.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
You know, Sympathy, empathy, and passion are all virtues that
we express and extol and embody. But it also isn't
doing anybody who is in need of help any good
to allow for the status quo to persist the way
that it does. We know that the status quo before
(13:25):
these changes came into effect didn't work. These changes came
into effect per making things permissive and permitted, and it's
not working now, and we're gonna have to find out
something new to get to and maybe this heart model
is going to work, and maybe we'll get some federal
funding flowing down and that'd be great. But until then,
thank you so much for your time to chat about this,
and I know that you're keeping your eye on this one.
(13:47):
You're out there on the streets every single day. It's
incredible to see you. Thanks so much, Ronaldo, thank you.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
And happy all today to all the listeners out there, Thank.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
You, and happy New Year to you as well. Ward
three Counselor Ronaldo Agostino, you're listening to me, John Lidke
here on AM eight hundred KLW. We will be back
right after this
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