Lacrosse Legend Jim Bishop

As our interview team conducted dozens of interviews across Canada over the last 4 years one
name kept popping up – Jim Bishop. Bishop is one of the most well-known names in the game.
He is deceased, but his influence and work lives on. We have put together a number of former
players and coaches who knew him to discuss the lacrosse life of one of Canada’s most
important contributors to the game.

He was involved with lacrosse for 58 years, making his mark as coach and builder of the game in Ontario and throughout Canada.

Jim began coaching minor lacrosse in Toronto in 1946 and in 1957 he founded the Huntsville
Minor Lacrosse Association. One of his greatest accomplishments was building the Oshawa
Junior A Green Gaels - the legendary lacrosse organization that competed in and won 7
consecutive Minto Cups.

This record of 7 consecutive titles from 1963 to 1969 has not been
equalled since and likely won’t be matched.

Bishop was involved in establishing the initial National Lacrosse League in 1968 and coached the
Detroit Olympics. In 1969, Jim also went to work in Pro Hockey with the NHL’s Detroit Red
Wings. He served as a vice-president of the team for 4 years. In 1974, Jim was instrumental in
establishing the NLL again for a 2 year period. During that time, he was the Coach and General
Manager for the Toronto Tomahawks and then the coach of the Montreal Quebecois.
He became the first Technical Director of the Canadian Lacrosse Association in 1978. In 1997 he
won his 8 th Minto Cup as a coach.

Bishop is a winner of the Lester B. Pearson Award from the Canadian Lacrosse Association for
excellence in lacrosse. In 1969 he was inducted into both the Ontario Lacrosse Hall of Fame and
the Canadian Lacrosse Hall of Fame.

He did countless clinics for both players and coaches across the country. He wanted to teach
Canadians the proper way to play the game he loved. He also established a company to
distribute lacrosse equipment across Canada which assisted in the development of the sport.
Bishop’s greatness was his vision for the whole sport.

He built systems into the game that were ahead of their time and made his players work hard to be skilled enough to execute these systems. He freely shared his knowledge and approach to the game and was instrumental in helping to expand the game to all provinces in the country.
His story is one everyone in the lacrosse community, young or old, should learn.

Episode Transcript

(00:06):
We're gonna tell the Jim Bishops storyand we're going to talk to people from
across Canada that had some sort ofrelationship with him or knows things about his
career. Before Jim Bishop came toOshawa. What was he doing? Well,
this is all rumor, but Iheard he played for five years,
like at the minor level, andthen he coached either in Toronto New Market

(00:30):
because a lot of the New Marketguys that played for him when he went
to Oshawa, they all drop into the his sports shop and we talked
lacrosse and they were all former Greeales. So yeah, after that he went
Where was his sports shop one fiftyone King Street West in Oshawa. Yeah,

(00:50):
I got some good stories about himthere too. But he went to
Huntsville and he won eighteen provincial championships, amazing. He was the wreck director
of the town of Huntsville. Nineteenfifty seven, Bishop moved to Huntsville,
where the Green Gales made it tothe playoffs in Junior eight, so it
was like the Huntsville Green Gals.In nineteen sixty two, Jim Bishop moved

(01:15):
to Oshawa and started the whip beOshwa green Gals with hyphen Oshawa, Green
Gales. Somehow he got a jobin Oshawa with CKLB radio and he did
the sports which was always late.They'd run it over and over and you
knew he was coming, but henever got there on time. And then

(01:37):
he opened up his sports shop andI worked. I was the first guy
to work there. What was hisphilosophy with the game. His philosophy was
run, run, run, runrun. We would run in every practice
for an hour. We would doa warm up run in the two on
zero passing and then we go twoon one, three on two, four,

(02:00):
three, five and four for anhour and that's all we did.
Then he'd do the half court stuffand then we get into running again and
we'd run sprints from one end tothe other. And his famous line was
one more so we'd do nine,one more. We're all going one more.

(02:22):
So. Yeah, I learned alot from that because when I ran
sprints, I says we're gonna dofive quality sprints, no one more five
and timed and that put an inperspective. I didn't have to say a
word because they knew it if theydidn't make the time plus one. So
it was I learned a lot fromJim by him saying one more, but

(02:46):
others when you're playing for what seniorno? I was playing. I started
out at nineteen. He came outto a rugby game one day and he
says, I want you to playlacrosse. I go, wow, you
want me to play lacrosse. Isaid, I don't know what it is.
He says, well, I'll showyou. I said, okay.
So I thought i'd go to thegame. And I went to a Brooklyn

(03:06):
Redman game against Saint Catharine's and theywere playing on a dirt floor. I
go, what the heck is thedirt floor? And then they had this
guy, Rock Batley from Peterboro aboutplaying for Brooklyn with a leather helmet on
the old football helmet with a kerchiefout of the back. Good, what's
with this here? While he gothit over the head with Gary hind split

(03:27):
open and he kept on playing.I go, and I'm gonna play this
game. Whoa? But Rock wouldwind up over center underhand shot and just
drill it. I mean he wasscoring goals from unbelievable and I'm thinking,
Wow, I'm gonna play this,okay. So that was the nineteen sixty
one and where are you playing basketballat the time? Never played basketball?

(03:52):
Well, I thought you did.I coached it for thirty eight years,
but I never played it. No, but lacrosse bas well, that's the
way I went to a lot ofclinics. I worked at Michigan for ten
years, one year, Syracuse forten years in Penn State, and that
I went to Olympia up in HuntsvilleSports Gamp. Yeah. I went there

(04:14):
about ten years too, because it'ssimilar basketball. I was similar that you
know, two way game, fastbreak yeah, yeah, pick and rolls
yeah, everything else. Yet,so his philosophy was run. You guys
were in the best shape of anybodyin the league, no question. And

(04:35):
his coaching philosophy was totally professional.We were a professional team that wasn't being
paid. We would shirt and ties. We traveled by bus and when we
went to Hastings, we would stopthe bus like half an hour out of
Hastings. We had to walk injust to loosen our legs and everything.
Holy Jesus, I mean everything hedid was in a professional way. Discipline

(05:00):
whoa big time discipline and the sticksin my mind right now. And we
played in think Katherine's against Doug plavelteam and that team was Junior A and
they dropped down the Juvenile and thenthey went back to Junior A. So
our first year of Junior A withthe Green Gales, we play Saint Catharine's.

(05:20):
I don't know if we want ourloss, but we're sitting in the
bus. Four guys who are missing. I don't wear these guys. Dave
Locke who played for Brampton the yearbefore, Tommy connin the year before,
Almertrand who played for Whitby Junior A'sback a couple of years in. Johnny
Davis. Our four best players.I know where are they? They're in

(05:41):
the bar. So Bishop goes downto the bar, gets them on the
bus. Next game he doesn't playthem, and I'm thinking this guy is
serious, but who would set outhis best four players to get a point
across? So we played Guelph,we got our butts kicked. I mean

(06:03):
it was awful, it was embarrassing. Then he brought them back for the
next game and wealth we killed him. And that was the beginning all of
our championship. We never knew whatwe're going to be a good team,
a bad team or whatever, butthat was the beginning of our championship war

(06:24):
and because of that, I sayhe won seven or six more because of
the discipline, and nobody quarreled withhim because they knew he was fooling around.
But discipline was a big thing.You had to be in the right
spot at the right time, orhe'd be yelling at you. He yelled
at me all the time, yelledat me all the time. But I

(06:46):
could take it. He just mademe mad. I played harder. So
you had a lot of different waysyou fit in with Jim Bishop in his
life. Yeah. Oh yeah,Well I played nine years for him.
Okay, then I played against him, but I had a really good team
and he had a good team,but not as deep as me. I

(07:09):
was coaching Whitby, he was coachingthe Greenales, and we went head to
head about four times. Well,no, I would say three times,
and I beat him every time becauseI went to the Canadians two years out
of those three. And then Icoached against him when I coached in Philadelphia
and against Toronto Tomahawks. Uh yeah, so you know, so I played

(07:30):
with him for nine coached against himfor four and you worked in his sports
story. I worked. Now there'sa there's a story. There's a story,
sports show, grand opening one fiftyone King Street West, and I'm
cleaning up, I fixed a store. I'm sitting there and nobody's coming in,

(07:50):
right. So I started reading thebook. And so I'm reading this
book. He comes in. Goddamn, he said, I'm not paying
you to read a book. Isaid, everything's great. I mean,
there's nobody here. He says,where's the golf club? I said,
what got the one in the window? I said, I don't know.
Somebody stole whoops. Then the nextyear, he said, I want you

(08:15):
to paint his porch. And it'sreally flowery, you know, a lot
of decorations. So I had touse a little brush like this. I
couldn't use a big brush. Ihad that. So I'm in there filling
in the holes and painting and paintingand paint. Two weeks later he comes
in. He says, I don'twant to pay you to stay away rather
than paint my porch. I said, okay. So then there was the

(08:35):
boulevard. The boulevard, yeah,between the main road in the sidewalk was
a dirt boulevard and people would pullup bake holes and everything else. Well,
it was muck. It was muck. He's I want you to get
a tiller. I wanted to tillthis up and make it look really nice.
So all day I'm doing the tillerand I'm going back and forth and
everything else. So I'm back andI'm looking at it. I'm saying,

(08:58):
there's a spot right there. I'mgoing over it and we're going to get
some nice dry sand and sprinkle overit. Well, Jim, being late
for his radio broadcast, pulls upin front, runs across exactly where the
mud was, not on the side, but on the mud comes up.
He's got mud up to here andhe looks at me. I said,

(09:20):
you told me to do this.He was so mad. I got a
mad A lot. I don't know. Were there an Oh my god,
Yes, the gal's got your jobs. Okay. First of all, I
got a job at Coca Cola plantand I'm on a farm and we sold
the land to them down the road. So I had my breakfast. I

(09:41):
get in the Coca Cola truck andI'm with the son of the owners,
Hamley. We go to the topof the hill they have breakfast. So
I'm sitting there and I said,well, I want a drink, so
I gotta go drink and I don'tdrink coke. I dropped what was that
Nasbit's orange, So I'm rinking it. I'm trinking away. He said,

(10:01):
you can't drink that. He said, what do you mean you work for
Coca Cola. I said, yeah, I know, but I don't like
cold. He said, I thinkyou better go home. I go,
oh, okay. So then Bishgot me a job with Lasco Steel because
his friend Heffernan, who old LascoSteel, was sponsoring one of his team's

(10:22):
junior B team who I was coaching. So I go to Lasco Steel and
they gave me a hell glasses,brand new boots, and I'm out and
I'm thinking office job, No officejob. I was on the steel pile
and you're throwing the steel into atrain and then they take it in and
they melt it down. So aguy comes out and says, hey,

(10:43):
can anybody weld? Tell you?Guys puts his hand us like a well,
okay, so we're still working away. Can anybody sweep? Said?
I can sweep. So I goup the top of the comcast room,
which had exploded, and I startsweeping. I'm sweeping all the excess stuff
off and everything go. And I'msweeping it away and these guys come out

(11:05):
beside me with an s mess,this outfit on and I've got shorts on,
and I'm I'm looking at these guysand says, what the hecks this
all about? Is this dangerous?Yeah? Like I how can they be
there with this on? And I'mI said, can I get a drink?
The guy says, yeah. Iwent home and bitious job he got

(11:28):
me those jobs. The last jobhe got me was Fox Wealthy and Supplies
in Osham. I had a fiveton truck, had a great time.
So I go into GM on theturnover and I'm picking up empties and giving
them full tanks. So I can'tturn around. So what the heck?
Okay, So I back out myfive ton trucks swinging around, smashing into

(11:48):
a brand new car. Oh Jesus, So I pulled around the corner.
I wipe it all down. Igo out. Now, when you go
out of the GM, the securityguys always check your back. My heart's
going like that. And they said, I'm going to get caught. I
know I'm going to get caught.Go ahead, So off they have insurance.

(12:11):
That's one car. Don't be key. What kind of car was it?
I don't know. I just gotto help. I didn't go look
around the front say oh, thisis a Cadillac, a Chevy. I
don't know. But then his careerwent all over the map. He was
in Oshwa from sixty one. Hewon from sixty two to sixty eight the

(12:33):
seven Canadian Championships. But in sixtyeight he also got hired as the vice
president of Troit Red Wings. Yeah. I was go, wow, that's
that's amazing. So after that helived in Detroit for a while. But
I got a call from two guysfrom Windsor asked me to be playing coach,

(12:54):
And right away, in the backof my mind, I says,
Jim lives in Detroit and I'm goingto get him inolved in lacrosse in the
summertime because he loved it. SoI went to Windsor as a playing coach,
and at the end of the firstyear, when the playoffs started,
I phoned him up. I said, look, Jim, I want to
just play. I don't want tocoach. I want to play. Will
you come and get behind the bench. He says, yeah, no problem.

(13:16):
So we want to canidichep you whatyear was that. That was in
nineteen seventy, nineteen seventy, soyeah, I came your coach and you
didn't have to be a coach aswell as a player. Yeah yeah,
yeah, I mean I had weran in the green Gale system, so
it wasn't like he wouldn't know aboutit. He developed it. So yeah,

(13:41):
in nineteen seventy and then in seventyone he was coming again and it
was a deal, like because itwas busy with the Red Wings, I
would run a lot of the practices, but he got over almost every time
coaching because he loves the coach.And then in seventy three we went to
the Major and he brought in abunch of guys from Hunt Higsie and Donnie

(14:03):
Stints and and all these guys andwe played against the Peterborough Crue and Brantford
and who was really strong at thetime. Yeah, so that was his
career. Then in then in uhseventy four, him and Morley started the
NL. Yeah, so seventy fourhim and Morley got Morley cows Um.

(14:28):
They got together and they formed theNational A Cross League and h then after
that he um what wick could prizethe National Lacrosse League the team's six teams.
Yeah, it was the Toronto,Montreal, Philadelphia, Maryland UM in
seventy four Rochester h in Syracuse.Yeah, and then the next year it

(14:52):
went to Long Island, went toLong Island, went to Maryland again,
phil A, Toronto, and Boston. Quebec City, Quebec City, Yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah. Youkeep throwing those in because I can't
remember. That's all right. Alittle bit about his time with the early
NLLL or whatever what was it calledl n LLL and that was from the

(15:16):
Montreal franchise there the que well Jimwas with, Jim was with Toronto.
Yeah, it's seventy four, thefirst year Jim was with Toronto and Toronto
moved to Long Island. Yeah,yeah, Toronto, tom the Long Island
because the Tomahawks on Toronto to becomethe Long Island Tomawks. I remember that
was a kid down there and gettingposters, you know, because we were

(15:39):
that was something for us chair about. Remember they had the problem with the
powder blue floor. But then Jim, Jim took over in uh. He
didn't go he didn't go to uhto a Long Island with the Tomawks.
He ended up in Montreal, wasas a coach in Montreal and seventy five,
so he was with both in both, you know, major Toronto,

(16:00):
major Kay markets. I played forToronto Tomahawks. He let me go with
Team Canada to Australia. I comeback and now he's saying, and I'm
a teacher, anybody who's not working, which is me, We're gonna have
morning practices. Like there's six orseven guys gonna have morning practice. The

(16:22):
rest of the team has to gowork. I said, every day.
Oh my god. So we're talkingabout shooting. And he believed when you
shoot, you step around with yourfoot to get power into your shot like
a baseball pitcher, right shift,Well you don't, you shift from one
to other. And we argued aboutthat and he got upset. I got

(16:45):
up saying I'm gonna trade that.He said, trade me. I said,
I don't care. He traded thePhiladelphia I'm going yeah, I mean
Philly was unbelievable. Yeah, butyeah, we had an argument and he
traded me, and he traded mefor Terry Davis and Paul Parnell and they
went to Toronto and I went toPhilly. This is overshooting overshooting him.

(17:08):
That's funny. Yeah. Yeah.So and the next year Fergie wanted me
to come back and be the playingcoach in Montreal. Okay, which I
went back and I thought I wasjust going to be the coach, but

(17:29):
he wanted me to play. Sothey made a rule level kfe he's playing,
he's got to go in the draftthe next year. So I had
to go in the draft. Thenext year, Fergie and his partner in
the textile business they weren't getting alongor whatever, so they had a chance
to get Jim Bishop from Toronto andMaryland drafted me. So I went to

(17:56):
Maryland to play in which Bish wastight with the owner. Wasn't he with
it? Was it? Dorris?Bruce Norris? Yeah, yeah, Bruce
Ku. I don't know. Ithink he got I don't know how all.
There must have been some connection somehow, because all of a sudden,
the people that hadn't charge they wereturfed in the Harkness and Bishop coming We're

(18:21):
running the show. So I can'tremember exactly how they ended up that year
or whatever. How did things workout with the Warlocks under Bishop? For
you? Well, uh, firstday they set me up with a guy

(18:41):
named Bob Savage and his girlfriend andI was treated like like gold like I
mean, I couldn't do enough forme and the players that I did meet
from Oshawa and the couple I didn't. I've never went to Huntsville, but

(19:03):
the traveling they used to do tocome to practices and uh. And when
you practice, you don't you practicefull out. You don't dog it.
And if he's talking, you don'tlook down at your shoes or whatever,
or you're in trouble, so youpay attention and it's full out all the
time. And the guys and you'rethe guys you play with, I'm looking

(19:30):
at and uh, I was luckyenough to play against and with a lot
of great lacrosse players which a senioror senior b back then the Warlocks when
when I was there, Oh no, it was the best there is in
the in Ontario. So uh.Some of the players like Charlie Marlowe and

(19:52):
Chuck Lai and he came afterwards,but not a fast runner, but the
players the position then the past.He's a guy that reginated the passing goaltender
his murb Marshall could pass the ballas good as a lot of guys could
pass the ball. Did you makeplayoffs in that senior A league? You

(20:15):
know? Uh, I can't remember. I think we did. The best
team was Morley Kells. I washis competition every year. Yeah, him
and Kells and they had a realgood team. And Kells was coaching Bradford.
I think probably probably Bradford. Andthen of course Peterborough. Uh.

(20:36):
I think, well they had thegreat goaltender there too, Sycoons and Furgo
and Johnny David's junior is one ofthe best players. They were playing the
game too well. Peter were alwaysgot a lot of good lacrosse players.
It was Carmen Collins around at thatpoint. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Jimmy Wasson or one of the Wassonswhere in seventy five in the Pro league

(21:02):
in Philadelphia was Jimmy Jimmy Yeah souh and uh, I think Bobby Allen
coached him for after because a coachthat was our coach in co Quitlam,
he it was too much for him. Uh, you know, to deal

(21:23):
with a good coaches back here inthe East, like a Bobby Allen,
a school teacher and whatever. Andthey an exhibition they got rid of them
and Bobby Allen took over. Sothey had a pretty good team. And
I can remember that year Boston andPhilly were playing for the Stanley Cup and

(21:48):
I think Philly ended up winning andto try and we played after the game
and that was the last game.We were lucky to get to the arena
there. People were running around thetop of or car jumping from whatever to
whatever. Maniacs and Philly apparently ifit's sports in Philadelphia something now they're very

(22:08):
mild manner. Basketball. No,they're not all that basketball, hockey whatever.
Yeah so uh no, uh Joelkrashnyh ron Pitner, I can uh.
There's so many guys and they werethe Clayton's from Huntsville and they were

(22:33):
unbelievable. Saw windsor you mean yeahyeah, I mean uh and Gordie Keats
and maniac from uh from from Brampton. Is that his nickname or his profession?
What's that? Maniac? No?Uh? I called him that A
couple other people did. A goodlacrosse player. Yeah, I think he

(22:56):
got suspended by a referee in theCup team and uh Queen's Park, Oh
yeah yeah yeah yeah, yeah,yeah, refree did something. He sat
smacked the referee. Yeah, butthey didn't have tupperware sticks and so they
kind of heard a bit. Iguess that's a naughty thing to do or

(23:18):
whatever. But ednyhow they talked aboutdiscipline and working hard and uh not worrying
about scoring goals and whatever they were. It was. That was a Jim
Bishop team. That's right, you'redescribing, right, what were you doing

(23:41):
in nineteen seventy four, and thenwhat happened in nineteen seventy five where you
got out to Montreal or it waswell seventy three seventy three. We we
Uh I was playing for Vancouver andwe won the won the West and UH
played Peterborough in the stupid one gameman Cup. I think the only time

(24:04):
it's ever happened. Uh, itwas something. It was, it was,
and I get it. It was. CBC had agreed to broadcast the
game, but they would only broadcastthe deciding game. So of course the
only way they can broadcast, youknow, guarantee that is one game.
Yes, and I remember we gotout, we played and the game was
in Brantford because everybody expected Branford towin, so they put and they had

(24:27):
a nice arena. They had areally nice, nice arena there. But
we played Peterborough in in Brantford.But I guess what happened. A lot
of those guys that Peterborough guys thatBill had mentioned, like Coombs and Johnny
Davis, they all had all retiredafter the seventy two season. Well they
all came out of they they alldragged them out a moth ball. So

(24:47):
halfway through the season like they were, you know, last place or whatever.
So guys like carm Collins and Davisand Coombs and Fergus and all these
guys Pat Baker and Goal who justpassed away unfortunately. But um so anyway,
they they beat us in this onegame, one game Man Cup.
And uh, the following year thepro League started, Yes, and uh,

(25:11):
I got a I got a job. It was some kind of a
grant or something. I was goingto be the BC provincial coach, which
basically means you do you run aroundthe province, you do clinics and uh
and coordinate clinics and that sort ofstuff. And I did that. And
it was actually the Bards, theteam that I played for, they they

(25:33):
they wanted me to stay, andyou know, they didn't want me to
go back east because I'd had areally good year in seventy three. So
they are the ones that dug upthis grant from somewhere. So the money
in the first year in seventy fourwas not was not wonderful at all,
so I thought, ah, youknow, I ended up sticking around and

(25:53):
did the U and as it turnedout, I buggered my knee up really
really early in the year, andthen the whole season was shot sway.
Seventy four was pretty much shot anyway. So so seventy five it was I
think it was bisch and Fergie cameout and you had to make an appointment.
We met them down at the BayShore Hotel, which is a was

(26:17):
at that time a you know,pretty high class hotel down in the Vancouver
waterfront. How we interviews and andwhat did you signed a contract with the
league? So you signed a contractfor X amount of money league, but
it was with the league, andthen whoever drafted you got, you know,
took your contract, which was youknow, it was just timing.

(26:37):
I mean they were out there,you know, recruiting players, but they
hadn't had a draft yet, sothat's the way they did it. So
anyway, I got drafted by Montrealand that's how I ended up ended up
playing there. So did you feelright off the bat you were going to
go to Montreal or like the moneywasn't great? Well, the money wasn't

(26:59):
wait went away, actually wasn't bad. I forget what my it was.
Oh, I don't even remember now. It was like twelve thousand bucks or
something like that, which which soundslike a pittance now, But it wasn't
bad back it wasn't well, rememberit was over half a year, so
it was basically four ground which putyou in you know, in the mid
seventies. Was was pretty good.Decent. Yeah, it was decent money.

(27:22):
And uh, I suppose you hadthe option of maybe getting a job
while you were back there, butI don't, I don't, I don't
even I don't remember anybody doing.No, you can't know how you good.
Yeah, you couldn't. You'd haveto be you're on part time,
part time pizza delivery or something.It was real professional night. It was
we probably six days a week inthat area. Yeah. So yeah,

(27:48):
so you were a goalie, soyou had a little different regiment than uh,
the out players. I guess you'dcall it. Yeah, not not
really. I mean we'd all allthe like art training camp, like Bills
talking about hard the guys worked andstuff like our training camp was like it
was fantastic. You'd never get awaywith it today, You'd never because we

(28:10):
had with players, associations and allthat sort of stuff. We were we
practiced were training camp was in Baycomoand everything was first class. Like Bill
said, this was like it wasa shrunken down NHL in a way.
I mean it was. We weregetting the money obviously, but everything else
was was first class. And ourtraining camp was in Bayomo, which is

(28:30):
I guess home of the mulroney family. I guess that's what it was famous
for. But it was a Ithink Quebec Hydro had a plant or something
there, so his name was likea company town. Yeah, so it
has so the majority of majority ofthe population worked for Quebec Hydro. But
they had really good facilities, Likeit was out in the middle of nowhere,

(28:52):
but we like the training facilities.They had like a I think a
three rink arena with a full fitnesscenter and all that stuff. And one
of the winters. This was inI guess March I guess March or April
we went off to training camp.And but we we'd practiced three times a
day, two hours each time,and it was every day for three weeks,

(29:12):
three times, three times a day. The morning practice was all fitness
and you'd be doing sprints. Everythingwas timed, everything was posted doing like
forty meters sprints sixty meters and you'dyou'd go against somebody h and your times
it'd all be posted, um,and then you did. We had a

(29:33):
follow with the name of ed Enoswas like a fitness guy. He worked.
He was a fitness professor. Iguess that I forget one of the
universities in Montreal, not mcgil butAccordion might have been, yes, Bingos
Concordia, and he was our fitnessguy. So, which was basically weight

(29:55):
weight training and stuff. That wasthe morning practice and then the second that
was usually like like nine to elevenin the morning, and then from like
one to three, and then Iremember we'd all go for lunch the local
high school fetis they the cafeteria.We'd go up to lunch. It was
before the actual school lunch break,so we'd go in and have you know,

(30:17):
a meal, and then we practiceagain in the afternoon. That was
all strictly drills and that was thatwas from two to four, one to
three something like that. And that'sone of the things I remember about Bitch.
It was the the the commitment tofundamentals and like like Bill saying that,
like the teams now, like I'vebeen associated with, you know,

(30:37):
a couple of NL teams of theof the new NLL, and it's so
frustrating. You practice once a weekand there's so much to do. You
get power play, you get shortoffense defense that you don't practice thrown in
catching. So but we spent thisthis two hour practice was all drills.
Now a lot of them were likebreakout drills and stuff like that that we're

(30:59):
you know, part of the offenseor defense whatever, but a lot of
it was just pro catch loose balls, one on one, defending stuff like
that, fundamentals, fundamentals. Andthen the evening we scrimmaged, inter squad
scrammed, just pure game things.But the thing was this is so you'd
never get away with it now.I remember we used to. He had

(31:21):
I think he had we had leftguys for three lines on each team.
So yeah, so that's like thirtyguys, thirty plus guys, and so
you'd have three lines on a teamand it was controlled, you know,
should bi should run the thing andcontrol and stop it. But not a
lot. He pretty much let usplay and assessed and whatever. But when
when he came off the floor,you had your shift. You're playing defense.

(31:41):
To come off the floor, hewent straight to the gym. There
was a gym like just down thehallway and this Eddie knows would be in
there and you'd have to do Xnumber of bench presses or something just one,
just one, one, one exerciseand then you go to the bench
and by the time he got tothe bench, it's almost your turn to
go back on the floor again.And that that went for two hours.

(32:05):
So you had a one line fromeach of these two teams kind of overlapping.
Oh no, it was. Itwas crazy, but it was.
But it was so well organized.We were treated. I say, we
had this you know, full lunch, and then we had dinner at the
U real nice hotel, um alot of the fitness stuff. In the
morning, we was outside this isoutside and it was like four feet of

(32:28):
snow and it was bitterly cold.And we're out there. That's where we
did our distanc because you got todo distance running. UM. Even even
before training camp, UM, mostof us we were in I got into
Montreal probably I don't know, twoor three weeks before training camp, and
uh, we were expected to runevery morning and we'd be out running them

(32:52):
through the streets of Montreal and slashand slush and slop and freezing cold.
But but I mean level, Imean, the level of fitness was incredible.
But the thing, as I say, I think I remember most is
the commitment to detail, detailed detail. Like if you if you you threw
a crappy pass in a practice,you heard about it. If you dropped

(33:12):
a pass, or you or yourheaven forbid you go for a loose ball
with one hand and your stick,things like that, you'd just be I
mean, the fundamental, the accent. That's one of the one of the
things I learned from Jim about whenI started coaching, was was you can
have all the wonderful plays and systemsand stuff in the world if you can't
throw and catch, it doesn't domuch good under pressure at a game speed.

(33:37):
So you said you went five orsix days a week with that season.
Yeah, did that cause any problemshealth wise for people like going that
hard? You know, No,I don't think so. I don't.
I don't, I don't. Idon't recall it caused any people. Uh.
I mean the fitness level was wastremendous and yeah, and you had

(34:00):
It's it's not like you know,when we're playing senior or whatever, you
go out and practice and the nextoneing you get end up and go to
work. Now you go, youhave your practice and you got the rest
of the day off to recover.And there wasn't the one thing that we
didn't have, which nobody had becauseit's just times of change. It's that's
fifty years ago. But you didn'tyou didn't have all the We didn't have

(34:22):
masseuses rubbing us down after practice andice baths and all that stuff. Now
you slap some ice on something andcheck with a trainer the next day at
practice and uh, but I don't. I don't remember anybody you know,
getting run down because of it.Now by the end of the year,
I don't know. Maybe we're abit fatigue, probably more mentally than physically.

(34:45):
Well, that's training camp you're talkingabout. Isn't it. Well,
all the whole season was No,the whole season, and you're practice three
times a day on day if you'renot traveling or whatever. Oh no,
no, no, that training campwas the three times a day. During
the regular season, we'd practice usuallyI'd say probably an average five days a
week, depend depending one game aweek, I would say average three three

(35:09):
games a week, about a fortyeight game schedule, sixteen weeks. And
it was over what we played onethat's four months, four months afrom May
June July basically, yeah, andmaybe into August because we wrapped up a
quarter on rates Labor Day after LaborDay playoffs. I can't remember that.
But I know one thing is,Uh, the guys players now that are

(35:31):
playing in the NLLL and whatever.Uh, you know, when they pick
up their stick game day, theydon't even I go down to the box
on their own or whatever. Ilived not far from a lacrosse box,
and I drive by there all thetart. I don't see any when there.

(35:52):
And my nephew plays in the proleague and that's only Timey picks up
his stick. So wow, Andyou can't even use the weather as an
excuse because the new sticks. Youcan go out in the porn rain.
I mean my well, they're goodfor fishing. Yeah, they're good for
fishing and clean them up dog dogpoop. But uh but I mean my

(36:12):
my granddaughter, for instance, placestarted playing field across and they practiced.
They had a practice last week whenwe had we had them on soon it
was just poorn with rain. Nothave no problem. I mean the sticks
plastic playing any kind of weather andthe turf is probably aster. Yeah,
yeah, they're playing. Nobody playson grass. So what happened that year?

(36:35):
Like you were training like champions?How far did the Montreal get that
year? We got to the finals, to the final game, and I
didn't and I did. I didnot have a good year. I had
a really up and down because you'reyou're injury from the year. Oh no,
no, no, that the injurywas was long gone, um because
I basically had seventy four off andno, no, wasn't that at all.

(36:58):
I was Actually I was probably fittedbecause during the winter after I had
the surgery on my knee, heworked to get I. Oh yeah,
I worked. I worked my buttoff to get back and get back fit
again. That was before I evenknew I was going to Montreal, but
uh no, I don't know whatit was. It just didn't. I
just didn't have a particularly good year. Yeah, I can't have that every
year. And for I mean fortunately, I mean Ernie Mitchell stuff, mean,

(37:21):
Ernie Ernie. Ernie, Ernie andI were partners, and I was
sort of I think when I wentback there, I was sort of annointed.
I was the number one guy andthat was and you know, we
went through training capital and I neverI never really thought that I thought of
Ernie and I were partners, butI bet I started the first first few
games and did okay. But ErnieErnie, really he had a great year.

(37:42):
I think he actually was. Hewas on the first All Star team
actually. And the crazy thing isstatistically I had the best. I mean,
they kept goals against average cares.Really it's whether you and safe percentage
means at least means something for qualities. But but I had the best goal
was against average in the league.And I look at that and laugh because
I'd not have a good year atall. But we made it. But

(38:06):
we we We lost to Quebec inthe in the final. Yeah, Montreal
Quebec two out of three year fourto seven four we played Boston. We
played Boston in the first round andwent the full seven games, and then
uh we played Quebec in the UHand Quebec had knocked off Long Long Island
finished first in the league by quitea bit. I think they went by

(38:29):
by quite a bit. We weresecond, but we were we were way
behind them, and uh so Quebecbarely made it into the playoffs and they
they knocked Long Island off in theU in the other semi final. I
can't remember how many games it went, but but I remember Bish was thrilled

(38:50):
about that because of course Long Islandwas Morley Kels table and Bish and Morley
had this I mean then, youknow we respected that hell over each other,
but they just had this rival.It is crazy rival. What are
you going on? And uh,I'm sure Bish would have much rather play
played Long Island in the final justfor the sake of a chance to be
Morley and Morley's team. But butyeah, we lost. We lost four

(39:13):
to two to sixty and six gamestiketback City. So did Bisch coach differently
during the regular season versus the postseason? Like like you remember, No,
I don't think so. I don'tthink we practiced as much because you had
a game like every second night.We might we might have because the first
two games were in Montreal. Wemight have even played back to back.
I can't remember. Or maybe onegame just to save travel and whatnot,

(39:37):
um so other. But other thanno, nothing changed, nothing changed at
all. I mean he was hewas so organized and the practices, like
practices were like so far ahead ofhis time in terms of organization and everything.
Maybe he had always had his clipboard. Everything was lined out on his
clipboard, and he uh, everythinghad a purpose, ye had. You're

(40:00):
yet so much time working on yourindividual skills, on the kind of the
parts of the game, like thebreakout, the fast break and stuff like
that, and then then we dohalf four scrimmage everything. And he was
only and there was only one coachback then. Nobody had assistant coaches back
then, so it's just him,and I mean every team was like that.

(40:20):
Bills, I said, like whathappened with you in windsor with the
Warlocks. But Dave's describing with Montreallike like the way he coached and and
at least not gonna He's not gonnachange They used to say that, you
know, he can get away withsome of pressuring you know, younger players

(40:45):
rather than older players that maybe aremarried and got kids and whatever. But
a lot of people uh ca't hackbeing told because they think they're better than
they are, I mean players andto work hard and whatever. So uh

(41:10):
yeah, some players knows would beat a joint. We went to Quebec
that first year. We had toWe couldn't even hardly get served. We
had to eat at and we getthere four hours earlier because he didn't put
a tip on the table and youdon't speak good French or little bit French.
We used to eat at n Wbefore the game. They didn't have
nutrition to suspect either by the lookof it, because oh yeah it but

(41:35):
that the organization was yeah, butit was like real pro while you lived
there, you worked out there andyou lived in the neighborhood and whatever and
run like a pro team but notpaid. Late. We had the first
team that ever was even allowed inthe month all Canadians dressing room was our

(42:00):
team in seventy four. Now Idon't know where they got to. We
used to could be in there andthat you were playing for who at seventy
four, I was a playing coach, like a bequa where you were drafted
the second year, and uh wehad that dressing room and nobody had it

(42:20):
was even a loud we used.Yeah, we used us because Henry Richard,
Serge Savard, all these guys werethey love the lacrosse and whatever it
too, used to sit behind ourbench. He'd look, you know,
you look behind your bench and there'syou know, even Courmayer or Peter Mahavelich
or three or four guys you know, lived in lived in town in the

(42:44):
summer, so they the Canadians hadthe the seats behind the bench. But
uh yeah we uh yeah, usingthe Canadians dress room that was. I
remember walking in there and it yeah, it's based just an average dress room
really, but you've got all thisonly cup champions on all the all the
I remember one day and I wasputting my gear on and fellow walks and

(43:08):
I guess I bent over doing something, tying my shoes or putting my leg
pies on. Him. Guy comesin and I just see he's wearing a
suit and I look up. He'sall, hello, my name is Jean
Bellavo about to meet and died andgone to heaven. So that that was
a real oh yeah, trying tome, Oh yeah, oh good.
Yeah. Roger du Set used tosing the national anthem for us, the

(43:30):
guy that a little, a littleshort opera singer that used to sing for
the Canadians. He'd he'd hear himwarming up in the dress room across the
hall doing his opera stuff warming.You must have been pretty special those years.
Yeah, it wasn't. So giveme two good things about bish and
two bad things about Bish from yourexperience for that year. That was the

(43:52):
only year you were Yeah, youknow, and I'll ask you the same
bill in a minute, all right, okay, sure, yeah, Well
the two good two good things firstof all, and this is more,
This is more looking back on itas as a you know, as a
coach, which I became, youknow, after a quick plan, uh,
just that organization, right everything,And I I know when I when

(44:14):
I coached, like in Philadelphia orwherever I was, everything was on a
clipboard and everything was down to theten minutes here, ten minutes there,
and if we have to go alittle extra, we take it off of
this down here. Like everything waswas meticulously planned. That that's the thing
that was just and uh and andthe bench, I mean the bench ran
like like clockwork. It was justAnd this is one guy. No assistant

(44:37):
coaches. You know, you hada trainer, you had the backup goalie.
It's me or Ernie is running onegate and you got equipment guy or
assistant trainer or something running the othergate. And bitious you know, running
the ship on his own. Andyou know, i'd say practices one,
one coach running everything, and yeah, that I remember. And the other

(44:58):
thing is just And this is kindof going back to you know, his
day's in Ashore because I played theirlast Mental Cup, which was in sixty
nine. I played against them,and uh, I saw you know,
from a crappy vantage point because they'recoming at you constantly just the way but
just just just the way they played. And you know that, you know,

(45:19):
we grew up with you know,you'd run the ball up the floor
and I was boom boom boom,three passes, four passes, the balls
up the floor, the short passinggame, everything at top speed, that
sort of stuff, and that translatedinto our you know, our our play
on the floor in Montreal, thatevery practice was always there was no testing
around. It's almost like the Raptorsplaying basketball today, the way they played

(45:44):
kind of speed yeah yeah yeah.And the other thing, well, you
would make the Raptors comparison to thisyear's team anyway, those superstars really right.
We had John Davis, we hadwe had we had we had John
Davis, who was, like Billsaid, is uhh, I mean I
still I still keep in touch withyou on you know, pretty regularly.
And um, but but other thanthat, it was it was a pretty

(46:04):
even keel. I mean, wewe we traded for Gaylord Pileos part way
through the season. But but youknow, Dave is kind of getting it
wasn't too much gast left in thetank at that point in his career.
Um. But uh, that that'sthat's the one thing that just that organization
and everything. And the second andthe other thing is that just his ideas
and is the things he did tochange the way the game was played like

(46:29):
that. That the fast paced thingthat that was just blitz creak, yeah
exactly. And and and the onthe other thing well this okay, this
is three things, but I'll stickthis into the first part. Just that
attention to detail, the the anduh accountability. You know, you didn't
drop a pass. You know,if if we're doing breakout drills and on

(46:52):
I or myself or Ernie threw apass that like bounced seven times, which
most of mine did, you'd hearabout it. You didn't hear about it,
and takes them getting used to.But I don't think anybody like we're
used to. We're used to playingsenior lacrosse in Vancouver or wherever for nothing.

(47:13):
Here we're here, we're getting eveneven we're getting paid twelve fifteen grand
whatever. It was just to beto be able to go back and like
where you're used to work, LikeBill says, he worked in construction all
his life, and you're working ahard day on a construction site or something
that you got to go to practiceand play a game the next night.
Here you're you're you're real professionals.And but the negative things, I think

(47:37):
two things come to mind. Ithink one thing is he was a little
he was a little too stuck inhis ways. I think sometimes um,
because especially when you're playing a fortyeight game schedule and you're planning against good
coaches, good experience coaches. You'replanning against Bobby Allen's teams and Morley Kells's

(47:57):
teams. Guys like that and sometimes, you know, for all defense that
we used, he called it afloating zone. It's kind of like a
box and one in basketball. Butwe practiced it a lot, and the
early part of the season it wasreally really it's like it's a great defense.
I actually adapted it and used itwith the women's field across. I

(48:21):
mean you get one extra player,but you just sticker in the middle.
Yea, you play a two onetwo and a person running around. So
it wasn't unlike basketball. You didn'tassign somebody wasn't assigned to you know,
Lebron James or whoever, and followhim around and everybody else to play zone.
You'd go out, you'd be checking, so you know, builds out
checking the ball carry as soon asthe ball was passed, Bill would pop
into the zone and this guy pullout and was usually at least two sometimes

(48:45):
three people in the zone, buthave to shift shift. So it took
a lot of practice then and weyeah, we did it pretty well,
but you know, laid a loutof the second half of the season.
People were catch on. I mean, any zone you can there's a way
to beat it. So so wedidn't have success, and there's much success
in the second half of the season, and we we never we never let's

(49:08):
play Manda man. Let's just goinglet's play a Mando man for a game
or two or for a period.There was never that, you know,
adapting to the situation. It wasjust this is it. This is the
way, this is the right wayto do it, and this is the
way we're going to do it.Sometimes I think that that cost us a
little bit. Did that cost youagainst Quebec in the final, No,
I don't think so. No,what was a factor there? I think

(49:31):
all two things. Larry Smeltzer andGoal had a great series. I was
hurt through my own stupidity. Ernieactually Ernie got hurt. He got a
shot. It was again fishing inthe Boston series. He got a shot.
At least he had the common senseto where a helmet. But it
was still nothing like the guys cometoday. And it cracked the he told

(49:52):
me about it. Yeah, Ithink he cracked. Was like the orbital
yeah, under his eye, likehe was just puffed up like this,
and we had to The league madea ruling. They made available the two
teams that didn't make the playoffs,which was Philliam Maryland, we could choose
their third string goalie. Okay,so we chose Uh from Maryland from Uh

(50:15):
Codman's brother Keith, Tobman Bruce Dodman'syounger brother. Keith was Maryland's because Maryland
had Gernie and Uh, I forgotwho else. Uh, and then Todd
it was your third guy, sothat was there. He was there for
a bit. Yeah, But thenwe had and then we took we had
another guy because I was hurt,Ernie was hurt, and we picked somebody

(50:37):
from both of us were I wasdone. I was done, but Ernie,
but Ernie this it just recovered.I don't know, you'd have to
talk to Ernie because, Uh,all of a sudden, it sort of
popped back into place because he playedthe whole Quebec series. Did Yeah,
he missed the h and I hadI had broken my hand and the game

(50:59):
that Ernie got heard in the seventhgame of the Boston series, it's got
a shot, and I said,they're right in the eye. I forget
who shot it, but and Ihad a cast on my hand, but
I was dressed anyway, so Ihad to go. I had to go
in and playing the last I don'tknow period and half with my with my
stick takes to my hand. Imean, fortunately we won that, but

(51:22):
but no, Ernie, I don'tI don't know. It was weird that
it just all of a sudden hewas better because there was a there was
a picture in the Montreal paper ofErnie and I stand and I've got a
cast up the air in one endand his eye is completely closed up.
But he but but he know heplayed. He played fine the whole series.
But Larry, Larry had a greatseries. So how do you think

(51:43):
they beat mostly because they were sophysical. Eight later they played a zone,
just a basic two one day Imean our zone. We had guys
run, so it wasn't it wasn'tall that physical the pressure on the ball,
but it wasn't pound the crop onhis So they had They had a
native um Russ George I think hisname was two one two, and the

(52:06):
rules were a little more liberal backthen, and you had wooden sticks,
remember he had real sticks. Russplayed in the middle of their two one
two zone and you went, youcut through that, so you get fear
of your life and and a lotof that stuff that wouldn't be that would
be called today. And never mindit with a tupper worse sticks, it
wouldn't hurt anyway. Um. AndI think I think that not that guys

(52:29):
were afraid of it. I mean, nobody, nobody's afraid of it,
but there's common sense. But it'sjust it's just it just it was it
made so we so we ended upplaying a lot from the perimeter, and
that wasn't our game. That wasn'tthe game Jim liked to play. Jim
liked to said. It was alltrying to get two on ones, three
on two set up and get theshots streaming close. So they made you

(52:51):
change. They made they made astate change our offense a little bit.
You know. That combined with Larry, you know, Larry had a Larry
had a great series. Yes,and the games were closed. It wasn't
like they kicked the ground because theywere all close games. It's a good,
very good series. But but that'sthe one thing I say with with
Jim, we didn't adapt. Sothere wasn't Yeah, there wasn't we did.

(53:13):
We just kept playing the system thathad kind of been successful. Were
it rather than adapt and maybe maybeset up things so that our outside because
we had some great outside shooters.Davy Tasker from from out here was Shooter
Davis, a great outside shooter.Lots of guys, but that wasn't the
preferred Bish used to call them hopeshots. When somebody shot from outside,

(53:35):
that's a hope shot. And soit wasn't it wasn't just it wasn't the
way we wasn't the system we used, and rather than changed the system,
we kind of kept pounding away atit and got nowhere because they had Larry
and Gold who played very well,and they had they had this defense that
was I still remember cutting through themiddle and it was it was like kind

(53:58):
of cut through Paul Bunyan cutting throughour treat down seems crazy. Yeah,
So some different people I've talked toalong the way. You know, everybody
has tremendous respect for that seven championshipsin a row with the juniors, but
at the pro level, some ofthe guys said, well, we were
men, some of us with children, yes, and we're being treated like

(54:19):
twenty year olds. Yeah. Youknow, like do you think that's valid
or true to a certain point,But if you're going to play the game.
And the game back then it wastwo way box lacrosse and you can
either play in a slowdown game,which was kind of like the Peterborough style,
or you can have a speed game. And Jim believed in the speed

(54:42):
game and he had some you know, guys that could really really run in
Montreal, and that's when he wentwith. And guys are always complaining if
they have to work hard, youknow they're going to complain, Well,
you have to work hard. Ifyou're gonna play for Jim Vision, You're
gonna be running your butt off allthe time. And you better accept that.
So you know, you gotta knowwhat you're signed up for. Yeah,

(55:05):
exactly right. I mean his intensitywas incredible, but sometimes he forgot
I don't know. I would sayhis interpersonal relationships were a little were a
little iffy. I thought, II not not with me and it never
really never with me. Um,but but just just little things like some
of the you know, the ruleof the curfews and the dress codes and

(55:30):
all that stuff, and um,it was a run for that was maybe
something that those are the things Imean that the actual on the floor stuff
junior, senior or whatever, it'sgonna work because it was good stuff.
But some of the interpersonal stuff whenyou're when you were and you know,
I remember when he coached those Ashowjunior teams. A lot of those guys

(55:52):
are like sixteen seventeen, they wereyoung. They're gonna Jimmy Higgs started playing
junior when he as well, likefourteen or something, fourteen or fifty,
so they were there. I mean, they were young, so you could.
But whereas as I say, weyeah, yeah, I don't think
that kind of that kind of thingreally worked as much with us, And
I sort of got the sense alot of the time some of the fun

(56:15):
got sucked out a plan, andI just I believe you, it doesn't
matter what level. Yeah, yeah, you gotta you gotta have some fun.
It's supposed to be fun. Yeah, you gotta have some funny.
You gotta work your ass off andyou got to you got to apply what
the coaches principles and what I mean. But but you still gotta have,
you know, a few laughs everynow and then and lightening things up and
that that that was never part ofJim's mindset because he was I love him,

(56:37):
Hey, he was. He wasso intense. He loved the game
so much that but I think itwas kind of a you never had that
real like. I mean, itwas a job, but it felt like
a job, you know what.I mean, it was a job because
we were getting paid, but notI'm not really getting paid. Yeah,

(56:58):
but it became it became a jobto play rather than rather than something that's
fun to play. But hey,we're getting a little money too. That's
fun. That's that's cool. Yeah. But other than that, it's fun
that the technical stuff and the organizationand whatnot. It was all ahead of
his time. I mean, changethe game, change the game positively,
Yeah, I mean he'd probably he'dbe rolling and he'd be spinning in his

(57:20):
grave if he saw the game todaywith the offense, defense, guys playing
half the floor, garbage, that'sthat's being played today. I think so,
Bill, Bill, if you're goingto name a positive thing and a
negative thing with this, what woulddo? What comes to mind with you?
I play a lot of sports inmy life, and fun to me

(57:42):
is winning. So how do youwin? You got to work hard and
and the team thing. I alwayspride to myself as being a good team
player. Ye is that's What youliked about BISH is that I liked how

(58:02):
these guys Ah, they did whatthey were told and they were team oriented.
And uh yeah we didn't have wellwe had like Jim Higgs and Larry
Lloyd were our big goal scorers.But other than that, maybe some a

(58:27):
little bit average over average or whateverwas there was there anything negative about playing
for BISH that you felt or saw. Well, Uh, Higgs and I
are raging the ball one time andI'm trying to think of his name,

(58:49):
chopped me across face and broke myjaw, wasn't McNeil? Yeah, yeah,
ok So anyhow, Uh, heused to have his office in the
dressing room, and now and thenhe'd called the guy in and he giving
him ship, giving him a peptalk and whatever pep talk is. Right,

(59:15):
So Higgs uh never did get calledin. Okay, so there was
some and uh diplomatic community. Right. Well, he was, uh,
he was pretty damn good. Butthere's other guys you know that where he
was a great goal scorer, sameas Larry Lloyd. So anyhow, I

(59:37):
always used to feel sorry for someof the guys that because I thought,
well, when the way he's goingto call me and did you ever get
called in? Yeah, uh,I lost twenty five pounds when my jaw
was broken. Oh god, yea, and I and I didn't miss a

(59:57):
game. Wow. Really, Ihad a football helmet. Yeah, and
just wear football helmets and that then. So anyhow, I used to watch
some of the guys going there andfeel bad for him, you know,
but they come out and uh,hey, they just chin up and whatever.

(01:00:21):
The rest of the team would pickhim up. Well, no,
you learned to take constructive criticism.And uh so you know, I got
called in, and I wondered whathe was going to say to me because
that year too, my mother diedand I was thinking about going back,

(01:00:45):
and she's on her deathbed and Italked to the night before she died,
and she says, no, you'renot coming back because people are going to
say you're not sympathetic or you're this, or you're that or whatever. So
I said, okay, well that'suh fine with me. Now it's pretty

(01:01:06):
close to my mother. So anyhow, he calls me in and he says,
Bill, you're gonna start hitting theseguys like like you did in the
West, and and uh, beforeyou know, I got whacked. Yeah,
he played that one on you,so get your mouth in front of

(01:01:30):
it. But I don't know.I'm not I'm not hitting these guys.
I'm twenty five pounds. I'm hittingthem, but I'm not knocking them like
I usually do. And I said, Jim, I lost and not making
excuses, but I've lost a lotof weight, and uh, I'm eating
better, a little better now becauseyou're not eating much, you know,

(01:01:52):
melkshakes or whatever. And because Ihad my jaw wired elastic bands and all
that, and I couldn't finish howAnd he says, get out of here.
So you actually had a reasonable excuse. Hey, we played. We
played these guys in Windsor that year. We were we Brards and Seminolizes and

(01:02:15):
they went back and we're going Bradley. Bradley plays for Windsor. Didn't even
didn't even recognize him because there's thisguy with his goofy helmet. Wow,
but so thin wow. And Billwas never fat by any statch, but
saw a rock and honestly, guys, well, hey, that that's him

(01:02:37):
down there. No, that's notIll didn't he didn't even recognize me.
So much work, well, youknow the other big thing when you're playing
back East as humidity he's a bigkiller. Yeah. Some of them rinas
didn't have oh god, windsor didn'thave air conditioning. It's not to see
people's sulked in perspiration. There wasa particular smell on the sub seats.

(01:03:01):
I can remember when Vancouver come back, Bob Salt he couldn't play, he
was exhausted, two other guys andthere's a big fan at the end of
the bench. They're blowing there.These guys had the big fans visitors.
But if they were smart, theywould have got it. They would have
got some fan or whatever, andthey would if somebody would have. But

(01:03:29):
it didn't have It didn't have airconditioning either, so uh. But anyhow,
the humidity is deadly. Yeah,and for Western guys especially, we're
not used to the humidity. Well. S Kell's uh always went for all

(01:03:49):
the talented guys and even when Bradand Brad Fred like Paul Suggett was in
Maryland when I was there, andhe was a hell of a player.
But I remember we went about fivegames straight and I forget and he the
manager was from from Peterborough and hewanted to fire Sycombs and we had one

(01:04:17):
of the best defensive players there too. I forget his bloody name. Tall
guy always played for Kell's, butKels couldn't get him in the draft.
I guess when he was drafting histeam because he was with Syracuse the first
year. And a guy I playedwith for years, Kevin Parsons. He

(01:04:39):
drafted him first, and we weregoing to draft the goalie, but Fergie
wanted a draft Wedlock so from fromPeterborough. They had a good goalie there
too, so and I said,well Dave isn't in that category. Wh

(01:05:00):
whatever, So we drafted John Davis. But Kells had all these guys and
they they were all noticeable, realgood players, but not disciplined like Bishops
and so Bishop thing was, it'slike I said, the cake, all

(01:05:24):
the write ingredients is for the cake, not all icing on top and whatever
type of thing, right, SoI could see what he was doing.
Enough, if it would have kepton the next year, the team would
have got better and better and betterall the time, because and when we
used to play in Bradford, therewas about three guys in the doghouse and

(01:05:46):
they used to have to go atthe end of the bench and face the
spectators against the glass because Morley wasa nut park, you know, so
Morley Kells how I used to goby and I said, were you guys
naughty if I was close to thepatrol or whatever. So so seventy five

(01:06:09):
you were with Maryland and you werewith Montreal, and you played at each
other. We still we still havewe still he still had Jim still at
the office though. Oh yeah,well that somebody somebody, somebody, somebody'd
always get on and you'd be sortof sitting in the dress you're looking around
because you couldn't he couldn't counting theheads to see he was in there.
Well, we were right extra,I can see who's going in. Yeah,

(01:06:31):
he was always His office in Montrealwas there was a dress room,
then there was a tunnel that wentout to the floor, and his office
was kind of between the dress room. So so you wouldn't You wouldn't if
you were one of the first guysoff the floor. You wouldn't see who
got who got invited into his office. So if you're kind of looking around,
going who's here, Oh, geez, okay, So I only I

(01:06:51):
only got called in once. Ithink I can see a lot of times
he would want me to go withhim to certain games and whatever. If
we weren't playing for the Leuka drivedtwo hours not going to Quebec and Montreal.
We're getting back to Jim. Andyou know, as I mentioned,

(01:07:15):
everywhere I've gone over the last threeor four years with these interviews, his
name comes up, you know,amazing, you know that his name above
and maybe Gaylord Powelis comes up alot too, and Johnny Davis, Yeah,
Johnny Davis, right. And sowhat influencer vision did Bishop have on
the game. Well, when himand Morley came in in seventy four,

(01:07:38):
they put in the thirty second clock. They put in the exchange land between
the doors. There was a rectangularexchange line, and the idea was that
when you come out the offensive door, you have a step. As a
guy steps on the back, you'vegot an advantage. But over the years
what happened they ran guys out theback door the defense, so they have

(01:08:00):
seven guys on the floor, whichtook away the fast break all the time.
And then the other role was paddingon the goaltender had to conform to
his body that never stayed. Andthen we had the pick and roll oh.
We argued and argued about when youset a pick, can you do
this? No, you got tohold it like that and have the guy

(01:08:20):
go off and then roll, butyou can't push off and roll. So
and the other one was because itwas all about execution and finesse. So
if the guy cuts through the middle, you can't cross check, and you
can ride him, but you can'tcross check and interfere with him so he
can get and shoot the ball.Ostensibly you can't cross checking. Yeah,

(01:08:44):
but yeah, well yeah, there'sa little bit of pushing. I mean,
pushing is a little problem, butactually cross checking was a problem.
So they did all that just tomake the game faster and quicker. Okay,
okay, from what I hear fromdifferent people, he and Kells had
a love hate relationship. Those twoguys, only when they played each other,

(01:09:05):
they were great friends. Oh okay, Oh yeah, Aft off the
floor because they were working together.They wanted this league, the goal and
Marley and Jim and they invited mewhat I was doing junior A and sit
and talk about lacrosse, which Ithought was the real privilege because they were
the guys to be around. Butno, they didn't have a love hate.
I had a love hate with Jim, but no, they were good

(01:09:29):
friends. Now did you know obviouslythe best coaches in Canada did that?
Ever is still over to them talkingwith universities in the States or anything like
that. Two different games, butwell, he took his Green gals down
to Cornell University and played them andbeat them with a guy named mid Hartness
who had won years he was acoach. Yeah, Cornell University, and

(01:09:51):
Higgsie got a scholarship there. I'mpositive was Cornell. Yeah, yes,
yes, yeah, yes, forsure. So yeah, he would be
eat them with the sticks. Thesticks were the ticket we could we you
know, we talked about his system. We lived and died on the four
and three, four and three,not a two on one, not a

(01:10:13):
three, four on three, andwe executed and the only way we could
execute was a straight overhand pass.I mean, nobody was doing any of
this stuff had a boom boom boomboom. It was in the net.
And we practice that and practice thatand practice that, and that was a
big part of his fast break system. How long were you and Bishop involved
with each other in lacrosse? Howmany years? Well? I met him

(01:10:36):
when I was nineteen and we arefriends. And when he passed away in
nineteen ninety eight, and I washis player at one time. He was
my mentor and coaching. And thenwhen I got out of and went strictly
basketball, that would be another twentythree years. And we we'd we'd go

(01:11:00):
to his body, his second wife, we'd go to their place and have
supper. And yeah, we werekind of like equals. Huh. And
what was your experience like when heplayed for Jim Bishop. Oh my gosh.
He he yelled at me a lot, but I know it was for

(01:11:21):
my own good. Like for I'mcutting down the middle of the floor,
I have the ball, I beatmy guy coming down. Somebody playing defense
swing swings and stick around knocks outmy two teeth and I stopped. I'm
looking for my teeth, and what'she doing. He's yelling at me to
get back on defense. And Isaid, but my teeth are down here.

(01:11:42):
I don't care get back on defense. So I'm running back on defense.
So that was we had a lovehate. Really, I love them,
I love them all. But whenwe played he coached me, I
hated him, but he made mea better player. He made me a
better person. I mean, hebelieved in me, and that was the

(01:12:03):
most I'm nineteen, never played thegame, and he believed and saw potential
in me, and he stuck withme. And for that I was very
appreciative. So for Jim Bishop,who will saying the top five guys that
ever played for him, but youknow he helped Bold or whatever, Well,

(01:12:23):
it's the very top is Johnny Davis, Jimmy Higgs, I mean,
Brian Thompson, Kenny Thompson, DonnieStenson. I would say, Tommy Conlin
and Dave Locke, but they camein at the beginning and they'd came from
Brampton. Although I think Jim coachedhim in minor, but they were with

(01:12:46):
like Gaylord and Davis. They wereall with him for three or four years.
Um, yeah, so I wouldsay they're probably in me. No,
I'm just kiddie. I was justI was a character guy. Yeah,
you know, I worked hard,I could run yeah yeah. But

(01:13:12):
talking about fighting in New Westminister,when I got in the fight with Wayne
Shuttleworth, he told you that theone reff grabbed him like you know,
his arms penned back, and theother relf grabbed me with one arm free
and he's swinging me around. Igo, whoa there? So I drilled
him one and the guy asked meabout the fight. I said, well,
I'm a lover, not a fighter, which is kind of corny,

(01:13:33):
but that was in the paper.Boys are really yeah, man, how
do you think Bishop would have donecoaching in the NLLL today? He would
have changed some rules. I remembersomebody telling me that, um, all
of the rules for the lacrosse weremade because Bish would do something different.

(01:13:57):
They'd have to stop him from alot of things that take advantage of the
gray areas. I don't think so. He wanted a fast, quick game.
Basketball up and down, hockey upand down. You don't see possession,
loss of possession in hockey and youget off the ice only online change

(01:14:17):
but you know it's we're a stopand goal game. It's yeah, either
don't have the ball or you havethe ball, but you play five and
five. You think Bishop was builtfor his time. He was before his
time because he ran a system.I mean nobody else ran a system and

(01:14:39):
he ran you know, Peter wouldpicking roll and nothing wrong with that,
and they were good at it,um, But Jimmy had a specific system
he wanted his team to run andit was good. Seven championships. You
know everybody's always had great players.Well, you have to have great players,
but he also you have to havea system and a discipline system,

(01:15:00):
and that's what he had. Yehad to create champions You can have all
the talent in the world if youdon't know how to use it. And
plus his coaching methods. I mean, he was a friend of Lloyd Percival.
Lloyd Perceval was head of the TorontoFitness Institute and they were buddy buddy
buddies and it's They set up asymposium of the best coaches and athletic traders

(01:15:27):
in the world and they met atthe Fitness Institute. I went there.
They tried to put meat on me. I went to the Fitness Institute.
I always remember this. They wantedto test my pain threshold. Okay,
So she had a machine where itwas like drilling into my arm like pain

(01:15:49):
and I'm holding it there and I'mnever going to give in. And she
stops. She says, oh,maybe I'm reading this wrong, said,
I don't know. So she didit again. I got two scars in
my arm right here. She burntmy skin. I could smell at burning,
but I wasn't gonna say, yeah, it's sore. But the idea
was when it touched and I feltpain, I'd say something, but I

(01:16:11):
was holding it there. I almostlost my army. But draconian, it's
the only term I can I know, I know, But anyway, could
gladly offer you up for this typeof Well, he wanted me to get
meat on me, and they hadme on a ministry and pain put meat

(01:16:32):
on you. Yeah, well insixty eight, Well they test, they
testing. They want to know whatmy pain threshold was. I don't know
why. I don't know that either. Oh my god. We'll give you
the floor. They'll talk about whateveryou want, bish and you know,
whatever you want to talk about bishand you know. And well, as

(01:16:56):
I said, I loved the guy. He was a great friend, great
coach, and we spent a lotof time together. He had when a
store went under in Oshua, hebuilt a factory out in Bowneville, Brian
lacrosse and he had guys going outthere. Now. He came back after
the Pro League, he came backto Ashwood and then in the eighty seven

(01:17:23):
he won a Mental Cup with Whitby, and he had Whippy for about three
years there, I think. Andthey were at the Brine Factory shooting.
He had a shooting area and theequipment was top of the line equipment for
his teams and everything else. Andyeah, he loved lacrosse. He loved
lacrosse. And he was a greatcoach. And coaching has a lot to

(01:17:46):
do with relationships, you know,and he would build relationship. I knew
he cared about me. And whenI sat on the bench and he's yelling
and screaming at me, I wasokay because it wasn't personal because I knew
what we had. But I pissedme off and I go running out there.
I can give him everything I got. And uh, yeah, that's

(01:18:09):
the way we were. But lateron in life we could be on equal
equal set of piloting. Did hedid he have different techniques for different players
for motivation? Nope? Everybody likeshit, didn't matter who you were.
I don't know what to ask you. But is there anything we haven't said

(01:18:31):
about Jim Bishop that? Well,there's one time we were. I was
we were in Windsors doing our thing, right. He was in Detroit.
I was in Windsor and the oneday we went across the border and I
forgotten my passport over to the customs. So like we go in the room,

(01:18:53):
you see with you Jim was withme. Okay, yeah, he
was driving and he says, I'mJim Bishop Place pay the Red Wings.
Oh you're the abassadors screwing up ourhockey team. And I'm gonna go,
oh my god, We're not gonnaacross at all. He said, we're
gonna be staying on Ontario side.But they let us through. But when

(01:19:15):
that guy swore out of him,you're that guy screwing our hockey team.
I was, yeah, yeah,exactly, yeah, yeah, you know
what. Lacrosse was good for theyears I was involved in it. We
had a lot of fun. Wewon a lot of championships and yeah,

(01:19:36):
and Jim asked me to do something. I do it. He asked me
to go to senior one year seniorand rather play at major and Glennie Latton
and I stayed in oshwa and playedon a senior team because Jim had a
vision of next year going major inOshawah. It didn't happen because Detroit happened.

(01:19:56):
But yeah, if he asked meto do something, I would do
it all right, all right,well, Jim, thanks so much for
your input on on the Jim Bishopstory. That's great man. He really
a great coach, great man.Yeah,