January 29, 2025 • 32 mins
In this episode, Nausheen Chen shares why it's important to stop doing everything and focus on being known for one thing. She also covers some LinkedIn tips and more!
Nausheen's FREE Course: https://www.speaking.coach/free-course/
Nausheen's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nausheenichen/
We Support MOSAIC GEORGIA Go Here to Donate: 👉https://bit.ly/donatetomosaic
WATCH Robin's TEDx TALK Go here: 👉https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHtx1N9YWig&feature=youtu.be
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Let's connect on LinkedIn Go here: 👉https://linkedin.com/in/robbinmarx
Nausheen's FREE Course: https://www.speaking.coach/free-course/
Nausheen's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nausheenichen/
We Support MOSAIC GEORGIA Go Here to Donate: 👉https://bit.ly/donatetomosaic
WATCH Robin's TEDx TALK Go here: 👉https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHtx1N9YWig&feature=youtu.be
Join our FREE Facebook Group: Go here: 👉https://www.facebook.com/groups/HowToTEDx
Want to access to TEDx applications and opportunities? Go here: 👉https://RobinNathaniel.com
Want Robin to SPEAK at your next event or support you with social media? https://beacons.ai/robbinmarx
Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts Go here: 👉https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/red-circle-talk-by-robin-nathaniel/id1759246927
Let's connect on LinkedIn Go here: 👉https://linkedin.com/in/robbinmarx
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
But a mistake that a lot of people make at
the beginning is they want to be known for a
lot of different things. And the reality is people are lazy.
Our brains will do whatever it takes to have the
minimal amount of processing possible. What that means is that
if you can be known for one thing, the audience's
(00:24):
brains will find it easier to label you for that
one thing.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Welcome back to Land to Talk, and boy do we
have a treat for you today.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
I have public.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Speaking coach Extraordinariy nauchine Chen is in the building.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Nachine, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Thank you so much, Rovin. That was such a great intro,
and I am really excited for this conversation.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Yes, I'm pumped too. I'm a big fan of your work.
I've been following you for a while.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I love what you're doing on LinkedIn, and also I
love how you've really honed in on the public speaking
community because they are not enough folks who are really
supporting speakers. So I'm just grateful for you as a speaker,
but also as a podcast host. I'm excited about the
value that you are about to provide.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Awesome. Thank you, Thank you, so let's get into it.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, let's jump right into the value. A lot of
people go into like, hey where were you born? And
lighted up like for me, like, I'm sure we could
share her bio if you guys want to know that.
But I want to just start with your journey as
a public speaking coach. What made you decide to become
a public speaking coach?
Speaker 1 (01:40):
It's a funny story. So the reason why I became
a public speaking coach was because I was so unhappy
doing everything else. I was a filmmaker back in China,
so this was about three years ago. I was doing
my own thing. That was the very first business I
ever founded. But I never felt like a filmmaker. I
(02:04):
never had that dream of being that creative visionary who
would bring these visions to life. What I did like
was working with my on screen talent, especially people that
weren't trained to be actors. Because very often in my
work I would do things like corporate documentaries or help
founders create their first video to put on Kickstarter. And
(02:27):
that's when I realized a lot of these founders, entrepreneurs
and senior folks and companies, they do well when they
speak to their teams they're fine, they're confident, they're capable,
but as soon as you put them on camera, as
soon as the spotlight turns on, they freeze. They become robotic,
(02:50):
bale versions of themselves. They just don't know how to
translate their ideas, their vision, their personality into the most
impactful video, into the most impactful talk. That's where I
first started picking up that that could be my strength,
that could be my superpower. Because I have been speaking
(03:11):
on stages and speaking on camera for over seventeen years
just for the passion of it. It was never something
I earned a living from, but I would find my
way through all kinds of stages that I could speak on,
from hosting indie film exhibitions to doing open mic storytelling events,
to hosting networking events and then being on the Tedex
(03:34):
stage three times. So that's what I really honed in on.
I quit being a filmmaker and I really started working
with people that wanted to be more impactful, more compelling
on camera and on stage. And that was three years ago.
I've never looked back. And the more work I did
(03:55):
in the public speaking space, the more I realized that
people relief fear the spotlight. They really shrink and become
these versions of themselves that they just don't feel proud
of seeing. So that's my mission to make sure that
every single person, when they speak on stage or they
(04:17):
speak on camera, they can feel proud of watching themselves back.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Why do you think so often people who have a
message shrink when it's time to get.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
On stage, when they have to create a video, or
when they're speaking on a big stage, A lot of
people shrink. They become these pao robotic versions of themselves
because they come under pressure. They start being super self
conscious of themselves and what they're going to say and
(04:51):
how they're going to be perceived. As they perceive the
audience to be hostile or critical at best, they feel
that every word that they say is going to be judged.
So they get in their heads. And because public speaking
or speaking on camera is not something a lot of
people do very often, the few times that they do
(05:11):
it during the quarter during the year, every single time
feels like they're doing it for the first time. They're
not building on their past experiences. The more you are
in your head, the less effective you're going to be
in engaging with the audience. So that's really what happens
there when you fail to be your true self, failed
(05:32):
to bring all of you to the camera or to
the stage because you're just in your head and you
have this fear and these inhibitions holding you back.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
That's good.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
That's good.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
So you mentioned that you are a three times ted
X speaker. Congratulations, that's awesome. Talk to me about the
importance of speakers pursuing the ted X stage. Do you
think it's important. If so, why is it important? Just
unpack that for me.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
A little bit.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
The Techech stage is amazing if you want to build
your credibility. A lot of people are experts in their fields,
but no one knows who they are outside of their
own circle, their own clientele, their own community, the wider audience,
the wider world doesn't know who they are. So if
they really want to step up their influence, if they
(06:25):
want to become the thought leaders that they are and
be known for their thought leadership, then the Tetchech stage
is one of the best stages you can be on
because it's not just about who's they're in person listening
to your talk. The talk itself gets onto the YouTube channel,
onto the ted website, and can be exposed to millions
(06:49):
of people, so it really levels up your influence. That's
one of the best ways to get from someone who
is a high performer, one who is bringing a lot
of meaningful change to a small group of people, to
really scaling up the influence of your thoughts and how
you come across to that wider audience.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Very nice, Very nice. So you mentioned being an expert
in your field. Talk to me about the importance of leaders,
soon to be speakers, soon to be ted X speakers,
how important it is for them to maybe refine their
offer or refine their expertise. Because I got an email
(07:36):
or a message on LinkedIn the other day, I'll share
with you somebody was running down the list of things
that they do and was like, Robin, can you help
me with my price point?
Speaker 3 (07:45):
And I'm like, can you pick the thing? You know
what I mean? So, is it beneficial for folks to.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Have like multiple offerers that they speak about or would
you recommend for folks to fine tune and refine their
offer in their expertise.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
It's about what you want to be known for. Yes,
you should fine tune your offer, but I wouldn't say
that your offer is synonymous with your expertise, your offer
can change. What you offer is essentially what you want
to work for, what you want to get paid for.
One day, it could be one on one coaching sessions.
(08:24):
The next day it could be you creating a course,
or you creating a community, you collaborating with someone else
to create a product. The offer is fluid, and it
should be You should have multiple offers. I'm no business coach,
but that's generally the best advice that I've heard and
I've also worked on. But when it comes to your expertise,
(08:46):
that should be more long term. That doesn't mean that
you can't change your focus as you go along. But
a mistake that a lot of people make at the
beginning is they want to be known for a lot
of different things, and the reality is people are lazy.
Our brains will do whatever it takes to have the
(09:08):
minimal amount of processing possible. What that means is that
if you can be known for one thing, the audience's
brains will find it easier to label you for that
one thing. Nauchine Chen, she does public speaking. Let me
make sure that I think of her the next time
I want to do a talk. It's really simple what
(09:30):
a lot of people don't know is I'm also a
trained improv coach. I also love Doctor Who, and I
can talk about Who culture for hours. Those are not
things that I talk about online because I don't want
to dilute focus. I don't want to draw attention away
from the thing I want to be known for. This
is the one thing that a lot of people struggle
(09:51):
with because, of course, in reality, we have multitudes. We
are all very multifaceted, and we want to talk about
our passion for this one thing, and our expertise and
this other thing, and how we love doing this third
thing that we are really good at. But if you
try to be that all rounder, if you want to
(10:12):
be known as more of a generalist, is a much
much harder path to talk leadership.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
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Speaker 3 (11:10):
So let's unpack that just a little bit.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
So if someone has this tool belt of skills and expertise,
maybe through their professional journey, educational journey, whatever it is. However,
they got all of these skills and they're trying to
pick one to be known for.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
What advice would you give to that person?
Speaker 1 (11:32):
This is exactly where I was at three years ago.
How do I pick the one thing that I want
to be known for? So I was at those crossroads.
I had a business, a filmmaking business that was doing well,
but I didn't feel fulfilled by it. I felt overworked
and burnt out and not like I was really living
(11:52):
my true purpose. I just didn't know what the purpose was.
So I came across this Japanese concept of ikigai, which
a lot of people might be aware of. You might
have heard of it, and it was a beautiful way
to figure out what is it that you're already good at?
So what are the skills that you have already? What
is it that you derive true happiness and satisfaction from?
(12:15):
And all of your skills may not lead to that.
For example, I can create short films, but I don't
feel fulfilled by that I have. The skill set doesn't
make me happy. So what do you have the skills for?
What makes you happy? And the third thing, what does
the world need? What do people need? What do they want?
I could be really good at training people to do
(12:38):
improv and I could derive a lot of satisfaction from it,
But if I can't see myself making a full time
living off of it, then that's not the ike gay.
That's not the one thing that I can really throw
myself into and make a living off of. So once
you find the intersection of those three sets, that's the
(12:58):
one thing that you should pursue, at least for a while,
and always be open to evolving this. That's the pitfall
that I see a lot of people fall into. When
you find that one thing, the first thing that you're
good at that brings you money, you just keep doing
it over and over and over. But you are you
(13:18):
are a being in constant evolution. You're constantly exposed to
new ideas. You should be changing your mind and challenging
things that you once thought were true or true. So
absolutely don't think of this as written in stone, but
it's a great starting point.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
So I know you're super active on LinkedIn, talk.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
To me about why speakers and leaders should get active
on LinkedIn in twenty twenty five and beyond.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
LinkedIn is the best way to grow your influence, grow
your community, and of course grow your business. And that's
something that a lot of people take for granted. Just
because you might be getting referrals right now, just because
you're getting clients right now, that doesn't mean that it's
guaranteed that you will continue to do that six months
(14:09):
or a year down the line. So LinkedIn is a
great way to get that community in place that will
always be there, that will create that demand for your expertise.
So absolutely LinkedIn is essential, I feel for anyone who
wants to create a business and who wants to be
(14:30):
in demand as an expert. And one of the things
that you should be looking at doing on LinkedIn is
creating video content, especially Now, for those of you listening
who may not be aware, LinkedIn is really pushing video
content this year in twenty twenty five, they have a
new video tab. They basically aspire to be the TikTok
(14:51):
for professionals. So if you can create videos based on
your expertise, based on what you can teach people, based
on what you've learned in your own life, that you
can share and help someone go through challenges in a
simpler way by someone else's life because you've learned lessons
(15:12):
the hard way, those videos are gold. They can really
propel your thought leadership.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Love it.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
So I know you are very very active on LinkedIn.
How long have you been on the platform.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
For about three years. The same time that I was
doing this ikegay exercise, I also realized that I was
exactly in the place that I was telling you about
where I was an expert, but no one outside of
my circle of clients knew about me. So the first
challenge was how do I get my name out there?
(15:50):
How do I get people to recognize me as being
an expert or having expertise in this field that I've
been working in for seventeen years. So that's when I
started posting on LinkedIn. I had till then basically had
a dormant account for many, many years, for maybe more
than a decade, so I first had to revive the
dormant account. I started writing about everything I could think of,
(16:12):
so at first I didn't really have a focus. I
was still in the process of figuring out what should
my next steps be, and LinkedIn itself was quite instrumental
in helping me figure out that public speaking should be
the niche that I should go for because I started
talking about the books that I had read, the opinions
I had on the last election, and on public speaking
(16:35):
because that was one of my passions, and the public
speaking stuff got the most traction immediately. That's when people
started noticing me and they saw that, oh, there's this
new person who's just talking about stuff that she's done
over the last ten fifteen years. We've never heard from her,
but it seems like there's something there that could help us.
And that's how I started organically getting a lot of
(16:57):
interest in how people could work with me.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
That's good, that's really good.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
So three years ago, if you had to restart and
come back to that moment today, you were like dropped
back in time and we said, you got to do
it all over again.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
What could you give us the play by play?
Speaker 2 (17:20):
So that way, folks who are in that you know,
in that season of their journey, if they were starting
on LinkedIn today, what advice would you give your old self?
And essentially folks who are starting from scratch.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
So if you're starting on LinkedIn from scratch, the number
one thing that you should do is figure out what
you want to be known for and then research the
heck out of it. Look up the creators that are
getting a lot of traction on the platform. What kind
of posts are they creating, what are they talking about?
What are the topics? What are the hooks? The first
(17:53):
two lines of the post or the first three lines
are the hook What are the hooks that they're using.
What kind of formats are they using? Are they using
images or videos or carousels? Are they creating a lot
of live events? So do that research. That's absolutely step two,
and it should take you a while to do that.
(18:14):
Step three is getting your profile in order. A lot
of people don't know what the LinkedIn profile is really
composed of, So get to know what your headline should be.
Get to understand what your banner is, create a really
interesting about section, look up different about sections and google
how to create a great LinkedIn bio, and start posting content.
(18:40):
The first mistake I made on LinkedIn was I didn't
realize that A you had to post content regularly and
B you had to engage on the platform. I would
just post things and hope and feel entitled almost to
people reading them, and that would be surprised, Why is
no one reading my stuff? It's so awesome? I realized
(19:00):
it was because I wasn't engaging on the platform. So
that's absolutely steps three and four. Understand what kind of
engagement works. Understand who to engage with. All engagement is
not equal, So create a list for yourself of the
very active creators both in your industry but also active
(19:21):
creators in general who can help propel you into different audiences.
Once someone comments on your post on LinkedIn, their network
also has visibility on your post, which means that you
want people from different networks and maybe even different industries
to come and comment on your posts. So that's it's
(19:42):
really it. You just do these few steps and then
you look at the data that you're getting. Aim to
post at least five times a week. If you really
want to grow and look at what does well, how
can you do more of what does well and less
of what doesn't work. Just look at all results as data.
Don't compare yourself to anyone else, which is really hard
(20:04):
but absolutely essential. Just look at how your content is
doing and how you can keep improving, and you'll absolutely
grow your influence and also your business.
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Speaker 2 (21:06):
Little bit before we move on from LinkedIn about engagement.
So I see on the platform a lot of folks
almost like initiating comments in their comments section. So like,
I'll drop a post and then on that post, I'm
gonna give you like six more posts underneath. So talk
to me about what engagement is for you and your strategy.
(21:30):
Is it hey, making sure that I respond to every
person that comments on my posts, but is it also
initiating conversations on other people's platforms. I know you mentioned
finding creating a list, but specifically around that, like building
out six or seven posts in your actual LinkedIn posts?
Is that something you would recommend or what do you
(21:51):
think about that?
Speaker 1 (21:53):
The key to growing your engagement on LinkedIn is really
first understand what's working for everyone else, and then experiment.
It actually starts first with the post that you are
writing or the video that you're creating. Have something in
there that engages with the audience. So I would always
end my posts with questions because I want people to
(22:14):
answer that question. It gives people a very easy way
to respond to interact, and you'll notice that the more
specific you can be, the more likely it is for
someone to respond. People don't really like vague questions like
how are you dealing with your challenges this year? Such
(22:36):
an open ended, vague question. I'm not going to write
a comment based on that, but do you have one
challenge that you want to tackle? Yes or no, much
more specific and closed question. Then you just get a
lot of people saying, yes, this is my challenge. Yes,
this is my challenge. So think of how you can
pose questions in your content that first trigger that engagement,
(22:58):
and then yes, the that you're talking about having a
lot of comments that you add yourself in your post
once it starts going, once you actually have people coming
and commenting, don't just be talking to yourself in the comments.
That works as well, and of course going to other
people's posts and sharing your point of view on their content.
(23:22):
That's another type of engagement that doesn't directly get you comments,
but it stirs up interest. Because again, if you're first
starting out on LinkedIn, if you're starting from scratch, the
first thing you want to do is get people to
know you and then trust you. And you do that
by showing up for the community, not just for yourself.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
That's good, that's good. This is a masterclass. I hope
y'all taking notes out there, because I'm over here. My
paper is looking crazy right here. I want to say
before we move on from social. So we're good with LinkedIn,
but for social, like that's my field. Like I'm in
this field all day. I do it for my day job,
I do it for my business, I do it for
(24:05):
my friends and family. I just launch my son's page,
which is really fun for him as a basketball player.
He's like a superstar, right, He's really feeling itself.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
But what other platforms would you recommend?
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Especially with all of this stuff happening with TikTok, there's
a new you know, there's all kinds of new platforms
popping up. Where are your where you focused? But also
where would you recommend folks to put their energy If
they're already committed to being on LinkedIn?
Speaker 3 (24:37):
What would be your second platform?
Speaker 1 (24:40):
YouTube? YouTube would be the second platform that I would
recommend people to go on because YouTube is basically a
search engine on its own. Very often you're not even
going to go on Google. You're going to go on
YouTube and ask how do I do this? The best
way to do this? How do I solve this problem? Why?
Because people love being shown stuff Visually, very few people
(25:02):
are going to go and read a thousand word article
on how to do something but they might watch a
fifteen to twenty minute video that but actually maybe even
use more than a thousand words. But because it's visual,
because it makes things easy to understand and grasp and comprehend,
and remember, it's such a powerful platform. It's also the
(25:24):
most intimidating platform, because if you are already intimidated by
the idea of creating a short video, then creating a
longer video is way scarier because not only do you
need a great hook, but you also need to keep
people engaged for a longer period of time. But if
you can turn that intimidation into curiosity, if you can
(25:45):
again take the same approach, and again, I am no
YouTube expert. I am also looking to expand my presence
on it this year. But that's the exact playbook that
I'm following, where I'm looking at what are other people doing,
both in the same niche but also outside of the niche.
What is getting attention? What do people really want to
(26:06):
learn about public speaking, about speaking on camera, about confidence?
And how can I add my own spin on it?
How can I make this content unmistakably mind so that
people watch it and they don't think that's just person
Xyz so it takes longer, but it absolutely bays off
if you can build your presence on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
So we have a bunch of speakers and leaders out
there who are struggling to take that step to start
their journey right. So my question to you is what
are some of the challenges that you see preventing these
folks from taking that next step?
Speaker 1 (26:52):
And when you talk about next step, do you mean
the next step on socials or in their business.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Talking about now just in their journey as a speaker,
as a leader to even turn the ignition on their
journey to their project or the thing that they're working on.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
I can talk about this from the point of view
of speaking, so very often I'll come across a lot
of people who say, nachine, I know that I need
to be on podcasts and I need to speak on stages,
but I always say no. They turn down opportunities because
(27:33):
they're not confident of performing on bigger stages or in
front of a bigger audience, and that's the one thing
that holds them back. It could be the quest for
perfectionism because they know that they've pursued excellence and perfectionism
in their industry, in their area of expertise. So they
(27:54):
want to be perfect when it comes to social media.
They want to be perfect when it comes to speaking
on a podcast or speaking on a stage. So that
perfectionism is absolutely a dreamkiller. It absolutely holds you back
from taking action. I know because I was there before
I started posting on LinkedIn. I had been thinking about
it for many years, for two or three years. It
(28:16):
was just in my head, and I didn't take a
single step towards it because I wanted to be perfect.
I wanted to make sure that whatever I posted was
absolutely amazing and it would be the next viral thing,
and it would propel me into this superstar. And of
course that doesn't happen, doesn't happen overnight, and it doesn't
(28:37):
happen at all if you don't take that first step.
So quest for perfectionism is absolutely the number one challenge
that I see people struggling with. The second one is expectations,
So letting the expectations of others weigh them down. This
is something I've seen with folks that struggle to take
that next step. So they've taken one step, they are
(28:59):
already posting on LinkedIn, for example, they're creating written posts.
They're maybe sharing images of their work or themselves, but
they struggle to go to that next level of creating videos,
of doing live events, of doing podcasts, and eventually going
on bigger stages and speaking. They understand that to really
(29:21):
be influential thought leaders, they need to show more of themselves.
They can't just get by with showing static images. That
only gets you so far. But they struggle with that
next step because they've already started building their reputation online
and they don't want to let people down. They don't
want people to feel like, oh wow, that was a
(29:44):
disappointing video this person put up. I should not have
followed them in the first place. The truth is that
the audience only wants to learn from you. They don't
really care if your lighting isn't great or if you're
not able to make make your point in the most
sucsing twig. Yes, you should learn to speak in a
(30:06):
compelling way, because that will help you improve the qualities
of your videos, improve the quality of the way that
you speak on stage. But don't let the fear of
not being amazing stop you from taking that first step.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
Well said and received, that is good.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Listen This has been one of my favorite episodes, and
I want to make sure to give you some time
to maybe share what you're working on next and how
folks can get in contact with you. Will also share
everything in the description and show notes of the episode.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
The floor is.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Yours, awesome, Thank you. So I work with folks in
two ways. One is through one on one coaching, and
that's very select. I only take on a few clients
a month where we really work on refining the way
that they show up and making sure that they're there
most confident, compelling, influential selves. And then I'm actually working
(31:05):
on this exciting program which might be online by the
time this is online. Let's see. That's more for the
wider community, where the goal is to create a very
dynamic public speaking community that people can join and practice
whatever it is that they're working on, become better speakers,
(31:27):
become more confident, and make sure that we provide that
motivation and that accountability that's usually missing. If you have
that challenge for yourself, if you feel that this year
I really want to get on big stages, or this
year I want to make sure I launch my YouTube channel.
But you don't have someone to partner with. You don't
(31:49):
have a sounding board, that community will be your sounding board.
We would be there for you to help you first
figure out what it is that you should create, then
help you refine it and stay accountable and on track.
So for details on that, the best way to do
that is to be on my mailing list, so speaking
dot coach, that's where you can go to get on.
(32:11):
The newsletter also has a free course on building your
confidence and that's going to help you stay in touch
with this program, which I'm hoping to launch soon.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Nw Sheen, this has been an absolute honor and pleasure.
I've gained so much value from watching you over the
last year, to grow on LinkedIn and for you to
share a little bit of your life here with us.
I'm just truly grateful for your time and we look
forward to having you back on the show for next season.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Awesome. Thank you so much for having me. This was
a great conversation.
But a mistake that a lot of people make at
the beginning is they want to be known for a
lot of different things. And the reality is people are lazy.
Our brains will do whatever it takes to have the
minimal amount of processing possible. What that means is that
if you can be known for one thing, the audience's
(00:24):
brains will find it easier to label you for that
one thing.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Welcome back to Land to Talk, and boy do we
have a treat for you today.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
I have public.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Speaking coach Extraordinariy nauchine Chen is in the building.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Nachine, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Thank you so much, Rovin. That was such a great intro,
and I am really excited for this conversation.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Yes, I'm pumped too. I'm a big fan of your work.
I've been following you for a while.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I love what you're doing on LinkedIn, and also I
love how you've really honed in on the public speaking
community because they are not enough folks who are really
supporting speakers. So I'm just grateful for you as a speaker,
but also as a podcast host. I'm excited about the
value that you are about to provide.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Awesome. Thank you, Thank you, so let's get into it.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, let's jump right into the value. A lot of
people go into like, hey where were you born? And
lighted up like for me, like, I'm sure we could
share her bio if you guys want to know that.
But I want to just start with your journey as
a public speaking coach. What made you decide to become
a public speaking coach?
Speaker 1 (01:40):
It's a funny story. So the reason why I became
a public speaking coach was because I was so unhappy
doing everything else. I was a filmmaker back in China,
so this was about three years ago. I was doing
my own thing. That was the very first business I
ever founded. But I never felt like a filmmaker. I
(02:04):
never had that dream of being that creative visionary who
would bring these visions to life. What I did like
was working with my on screen talent, especially people that
weren't trained to be actors. Because very often in my
work I would do things like corporate documentaries or help
founders create their first video to put on Kickstarter. And
(02:27):
that's when I realized a lot of these founders, entrepreneurs
and senior folks and companies, they do well when they
speak to their teams they're fine, they're confident, they're capable,
but as soon as you put them on camera, as
soon as the spotlight turns on, they freeze. They become robotic,
(02:50):
bale versions of themselves. They just don't know how to
translate their ideas, their vision, their personality into the most
impactful video, into the most impactful talk. That's where I
first started picking up that that could be my strength,
that could be my superpower. Because I have been speaking
(03:11):
on stages and speaking on camera for over seventeen years
just for the passion of it. It was never something
I earned a living from, but I would find my
way through all kinds of stages that I could speak on,
from hosting indie film exhibitions to doing open mic storytelling events,
to hosting networking events and then being on the Tedex
(03:34):
stage three times. So that's what I really honed in on.
I quit being a filmmaker and I really started working
with people that wanted to be more impactful, more compelling
on camera and on stage. And that was three years ago.
I've never looked back. And the more work I did
(03:55):
in the public speaking space, the more I realized that
people relief fear the spotlight. They really shrink and become
these versions of themselves that they just don't feel proud
of seeing. So that's my mission to make sure that
every single person, when they speak on stage or they
(04:17):
speak on camera, they can feel proud of watching themselves back.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Why do you think so often people who have a
message shrink when it's time to get.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
On stage, when they have to create a video, or
when they're speaking on a big stage, A lot of
people shrink. They become these pao robotic versions of themselves
because they come under pressure. They start being super self
conscious of themselves and what they're going to say and
(04:51):
how they're going to be perceived. As they perceive the
audience to be hostile or critical at best, they feel
that every word that they say is going to be judged.
So they get in their heads. And because public speaking
or speaking on camera is not something a lot of
people do very often, the few times that they do
(05:11):
it during the quarter during the year, every single time
feels like they're doing it for the first time. They're
not building on their past experiences. The more you are
in your head, the less effective you're going to be
in engaging with the audience. So that's really what happens
there when you fail to be your true self, failed
(05:32):
to bring all of you to the camera or to
the stage because you're just in your head and you
have this fear and these inhibitions holding you back.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
That's good.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
That's good.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
So you mentioned that you are a three times ted
X speaker. Congratulations, that's awesome. Talk to me about the
importance of speakers pursuing the ted X stage. Do you
think it's important. If so, why is it important? Just
unpack that for me.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
A little bit.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
The Techech stage is amazing if you want to build
your credibility. A lot of people are experts in their fields,
but no one knows who they are outside of their
own circle, their own clientele, their own community, the wider audience,
the wider world doesn't know who they are. So if
they really want to step up their influence, if they
(06:25):
want to become the thought leaders that they are and
be known for their thought leadership, then the Tetchech stage
is one of the best stages you can be on
because it's not just about who's they're in person listening
to your talk. The talk itself gets onto the YouTube channel,
onto the ted website, and can be exposed to millions
(06:49):
of people, so it really levels up your influence. That's
one of the best ways to get from someone who
is a high performer, one who is bringing a lot
of meaningful change to a small group of people, to
really scaling up the influence of your thoughts and how
you come across to that wider audience.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Very nice, Very nice. So you mentioned being an expert
in your field. Talk to me about the importance of leaders,
soon to be speakers, soon to be ted X speakers,
how important it is for them to maybe refine their
offer or refine their expertise. Because I got an email
(07:36):
or a message on LinkedIn the other day, I'll share
with you somebody was running down the list of things
that they do and was like, Robin, can you help
me with my price point?
Speaker 3 (07:45):
And I'm like, can you pick the thing? You know
what I mean? So, is it beneficial for folks to.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Have like multiple offerers that they speak about or would
you recommend for folks to fine tune and refine their
offer in their expertise.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
It's about what you want to be known for. Yes,
you should fine tune your offer, but I wouldn't say
that your offer is synonymous with your expertise, your offer
can change. What you offer is essentially what you want
to work for, what you want to get paid for.
One day, it could be one on one coaching sessions.
(08:24):
The next day it could be you creating a course,
or you creating a community, you collaborating with someone else
to create a product. The offer is fluid, and it
should be You should have multiple offers. I'm no business coach,
but that's generally the best advice that I've heard and
I've also worked on. But when it comes to your expertise,
(08:46):
that should be more long term. That doesn't mean that
you can't change your focus as you go along. But
a mistake that a lot of people make at the
beginning is they want to be known for a lot
of different things, and the reality is people are lazy.
Our brains will do whatever it takes to have the
(09:08):
minimal amount of processing possible. What that means is that
if you can be known for one thing, the audience's
brains will find it easier to label you for that
one thing. Nauchine Chen, she does public speaking. Let me
make sure that I think of her the next time
I want to do a talk. It's really simple what
(09:30):
a lot of people don't know is I'm also a
trained improv coach. I also love Doctor Who, and I
can talk about Who culture for hours. Those are not
things that I talk about online because I don't want
to dilute focus. I don't want to draw attention away
from the thing I want to be known for. This
is the one thing that a lot of people struggle
(09:51):
with because, of course, in reality, we have multitudes. We
are all very multifaceted, and we want to talk about
our passion for this one thing, and our expertise and
this other thing, and how we love doing this third
thing that we are really good at. But if you
try to be that all rounder, if you want to
(10:12):
be known as more of a generalist, is a much
much harder path to talk leadership.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
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Speaker 3 (11:10):
So let's unpack that just a little bit.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
So if someone has this tool belt of skills and expertise,
maybe through their professional journey, educational journey, whatever it is. However,
they got all of these skills and they're trying to
pick one to be known for.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
What advice would you give to that person?
Speaker 1 (11:32):
This is exactly where I was at three years ago.
How do I pick the one thing that I want
to be known for? So I was at those crossroads.
I had a business, a filmmaking business that was doing well,
but I didn't feel fulfilled by it. I felt overworked
and burnt out and not like I was really living
(11:52):
my true purpose. I just didn't know what the purpose was.
So I came across this Japanese concept of ikigai, which
a lot of people might be aware of. You might
have heard of it, and it was a beautiful way
to figure out what is it that you're already good at?
So what are the skills that you have already? What
is it that you derive true happiness and satisfaction from?
(12:15):
And all of your skills may not lead to that.
For example, I can create short films, but I don't
feel fulfilled by that I have. The skill set doesn't
make me happy. So what do you have the skills for?
What makes you happy? And the third thing, what does
the world need? What do people need? What do they want?
I could be really good at training people to do
(12:38):
improv and I could derive a lot of satisfaction from it,
But if I can't see myself making a full time
living off of it, then that's not the ike gay.
That's not the one thing that I can really throw
myself into and make a living off of. So once
you find the intersection of those three sets, that's the
(12:58):
one thing that you should pursue, at least for a while,
and always be open to evolving this. That's the pitfall
that I see a lot of people fall into. When
you find that one thing, the first thing that you're
good at that brings you money, you just keep doing
it over and over and over. But you are you
(13:18):
are a being in constant evolution. You're constantly exposed to
new ideas. You should be changing your mind and challenging
things that you once thought were true or true. So
absolutely don't think of this as written in stone, but
it's a great starting point.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
So I know you're super active on LinkedIn, talk.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
To me about why speakers and leaders should get active
on LinkedIn in twenty twenty five and beyond.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
LinkedIn is the best way to grow your influence, grow
your community, and of course grow your business. And that's
something that a lot of people take for granted. Just
because you might be getting referrals right now, just because
you're getting clients right now, that doesn't mean that it's
guaranteed that you will continue to do that six months
(14:09):
or a year down the line. So LinkedIn is a
great way to get that community in place that will
always be there, that will create that demand for your expertise.
So absolutely LinkedIn is essential, I feel for anyone who
wants to create a business and who wants to be
(14:30):
in demand as an expert. And one of the things
that you should be looking at doing on LinkedIn is
creating video content, especially Now, for those of you listening
who may not be aware, LinkedIn is really pushing video
content this year in twenty twenty five, they have a
new video tab. They basically aspire to be the TikTok
(14:51):
for professionals. So if you can create videos based on
your expertise, based on what you can teach people, based
on what you've learned in your own life, that you
can share and help someone go through challenges in a
simpler way by someone else's life because you've learned lessons
(15:12):
the hard way, those videos are gold. They can really
propel your thought leadership.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Love it.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
So I know you are very very active on LinkedIn.
How long have you been on the platform.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
For about three years. The same time that I was
doing this ikegay exercise, I also realized that I was
exactly in the place that I was telling you about
where I was an expert, but no one outside of
my circle of clients knew about me. So the first
challenge was how do I get my name out there?
(15:50):
How do I get people to recognize me as being
an expert or having expertise in this field that I've
been working in for seventeen years. So that's when I
started posting on LinkedIn. I had till then basically had
a dormant account for many, many years, for maybe more
than a decade, so I first had to revive the
dormant account. I started writing about everything I could think of,
(16:12):
so at first I didn't really have a focus. I
was still in the process of figuring out what should
my next steps be, and LinkedIn itself was quite instrumental
in helping me figure out that public speaking should be
the niche that I should go for because I started
talking about the books that I had read, the opinions
I had on the last election, and on public speaking
(16:35):
because that was one of my passions, and the public
speaking stuff got the most traction immediately. That's when people
started noticing me and they saw that, oh, there's this
new person who's just talking about stuff that she's done
over the last ten fifteen years. We've never heard from her,
but it seems like there's something there that could help us.
And that's how I started organically getting a lot of
(16:57):
interest in how people could work with me.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
That's good, that's really good.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
So three years ago, if you had to restart and
come back to that moment today, you were like dropped
back in time and we said, you got to do
it all over again.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
What could you give us the play by play?
Speaker 2 (17:20):
So that way, folks who are in that you know,
in that season of their journey, if they were starting
on LinkedIn today, what advice would you give your old self?
And essentially folks who are starting from scratch.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
So if you're starting on LinkedIn from scratch, the number
one thing that you should do is figure out what
you want to be known for and then research the
heck out of it. Look up the creators that are
getting a lot of traction on the platform. What kind
of posts are they creating, what are they talking about?
What are the topics? What are the hooks? The first
(17:53):
two lines of the post or the first three lines
are the hook What are the hooks that they're using.
What kind of formats are they using? Are they using
images or videos or carousels? Are they creating a lot
of live events? So do that research. That's absolutely step two,
and it should take you a while to do that.
(18:14):
Step three is getting your profile in order. A lot
of people don't know what the LinkedIn profile is really
composed of, So get to know what your headline should be.
Get to understand what your banner is, create a really
interesting about section, look up different about sections and google
how to create a great LinkedIn bio, and start posting content.
(18:40):
The first mistake I made on LinkedIn was I didn't
realize that A you had to post content regularly and
B you had to engage on the platform. I would
just post things and hope and feel entitled almost to
people reading them, and that would be surprised, Why is
no one reading my stuff? It's so awesome? I realized
(19:00):
it was because I wasn't engaging on the platform. So
that's absolutely steps three and four. Understand what kind of
engagement works. Understand who to engage with. All engagement is
not equal, So create a list for yourself of the
very active creators both in your industry but also active
(19:21):
creators in general who can help propel you into different audiences.
Once someone comments on your post on LinkedIn, their network
also has visibility on your post, which means that you
want people from different networks and maybe even different industries
to come and comment on your posts. So that's it's
(19:42):
really it. You just do these few steps and then
you look at the data that you're getting. Aim to
post at least five times a week. If you really
want to grow and look at what does well, how
can you do more of what does well and less
of what doesn't work. Just look at all results as data.
Don't compare yourself to anyone else, which is really hard
(20:04):
but absolutely essential. Just look at how your content is
doing and how you can keep improving, and you'll absolutely
grow your influence and also your business.
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Speaker 2 (21:06):
Little bit before we move on from LinkedIn about engagement.
So I see on the platform a lot of folks
almost like initiating comments in their comments section. So like,
I'll drop a post and then on that post, I'm
gonna give you like six more posts underneath. So talk
to me about what engagement is for you and your strategy.
(21:30):
Is it hey, making sure that I respond to every
person that comments on my posts, but is it also
initiating conversations on other people's platforms. I know you mentioned
finding creating a list, but specifically around that, like building
out six or seven posts in your actual LinkedIn posts?
Is that something you would recommend or what do you
(21:51):
think about that?
Speaker 1 (21:53):
The key to growing your engagement on LinkedIn is really
first understand what's working for everyone else, and then experiment.
It actually starts first with the post that you are
writing or the video that you're creating. Have something in
there that engages with the audience. So I would always
end my posts with questions because I want people to
(22:14):
answer that question. It gives people a very easy way
to respond to interact, and you'll notice that the more
specific you can be, the more likely it is for
someone to respond. People don't really like vague questions like
how are you dealing with your challenges this year? Such
(22:36):
an open ended, vague question. I'm not going to write
a comment based on that, but do you have one
challenge that you want to tackle? Yes or no, much
more specific and closed question. Then you just get a
lot of people saying, yes, this is my challenge. Yes,
this is my challenge. So think of how you can
pose questions in your content that first trigger that engagement,
(22:58):
and then yes, the that you're talking about having a
lot of comments that you add yourself in your post
once it starts going, once you actually have people coming
and commenting, don't just be talking to yourself in the comments.
That works as well, and of course going to other
people's posts and sharing your point of view on their content.
(23:22):
That's another type of engagement that doesn't directly get you comments,
but it stirs up interest. Because again, if you're first
starting out on LinkedIn, if you're starting from scratch, the
first thing you want to do is get people to
know you and then trust you. And you do that
by showing up for the community, not just for yourself.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
That's good, that's good. This is a masterclass. I hope
y'all taking notes out there, because I'm over here. My
paper is looking crazy right here. I want to say
before we move on from social. So we're good with LinkedIn,
but for social, like that's my field. Like I'm in
this field all day. I do it for my day job,
I do it for my business, I do it for
(24:05):
my friends and family. I just launch my son's page,
which is really fun for him as a basketball player.
He's like a superstar, right, He's really feeling itself.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
But what other platforms would you recommend?
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Especially with all of this stuff happening with TikTok, there's
a new you know, there's all kinds of new platforms
popping up. Where are your where you focused? But also
where would you recommend folks to put their energy If
they're already committed to being on LinkedIn?
Speaker 3 (24:37):
What would be your second platform?
Speaker 1 (24:40):
YouTube? YouTube would be the second platform that I would
recommend people to go on because YouTube is basically a
search engine on its own. Very often you're not even
going to go on Google. You're going to go on
YouTube and ask how do I do this? The best
way to do this? How do I solve this problem? Why?
Because people love being shown stuff Visually, very few people
(25:02):
are going to go and read a thousand word article
on how to do something but they might watch a
fifteen to twenty minute video that but actually maybe even
use more than a thousand words. But because it's visual,
because it makes things easy to understand and grasp and comprehend,
and remember, it's such a powerful platform. It's also the
(25:24):
most intimidating platform, because if you are already intimidated by
the idea of creating a short video, then creating a
longer video is way scarier because not only do you
need a great hook, but you also need to keep
people engaged for a longer period of time. But if
you can turn that intimidation into curiosity, if you can
(25:45):
again take the same approach, and again, I am no
YouTube expert. I am also looking to expand my presence
on it this year. But that's the exact playbook that
I'm following, where I'm looking at what are other people doing,
both in the same niche but also outside of the niche.
What is getting attention? What do people really want to
(26:06):
learn about public speaking, about speaking on camera, about confidence?
And how can I add my own spin on it?
How can I make this content unmistakably mind so that
people watch it and they don't think that's just person
Xyz so it takes longer, but it absolutely bays off
if you can build your presence on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
So we have a bunch of speakers and leaders out
there who are struggling to take that step to start
their journey right. So my question to you is what
are some of the challenges that you see preventing these
folks from taking that next step?
Speaker 1 (26:52):
And when you talk about next step, do you mean
the next step on socials or in their business.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Talking about now just in their journey as a speaker,
as a leader to even turn the ignition on their
journey to their project or the thing that they're working on.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
I can talk about this from the point of view
of speaking, so very often I'll come across a lot
of people who say, nachine, I know that I need
to be on podcasts and I need to speak on stages,
but I always say no. They turn down opportunities because
(27:33):
they're not confident of performing on bigger stages or in
front of a bigger audience, and that's the one thing
that holds them back. It could be the quest for
perfectionism because they know that they've pursued excellence and perfectionism
in their industry, in their area of expertise. So they
(27:54):
want to be perfect when it comes to social media.
They want to be perfect when it comes to speaking
on a podcast or speaking on a stage. So that
perfectionism is absolutely a dreamkiller. It absolutely holds you back
from taking action. I know because I was there before
I started posting on LinkedIn. I had been thinking about
it for many years, for two or three years. It
(28:16):
was just in my head, and I didn't take a
single step towards it because I wanted to be perfect.
I wanted to make sure that whatever I posted was
absolutely amazing and it would be the next viral thing,
and it would propel me into this superstar. And of
course that doesn't happen, doesn't happen overnight, and it doesn't
(28:37):
happen at all if you don't take that first step.
So quest for perfectionism is absolutely the number one challenge
that I see people struggling with. The second one is expectations,
So letting the expectations of others weigh them down. This
is something I've seen with folks that struggle to take
that next step. So they've taken one step, they are
(28:59):
already posting on LinkedIn, for example, they're creating written posts.
They're maybe sharing images of their work or themselves, but
they struggle to go to that next level of creating videos,
of doing live events, of doing podcasts, and eventually going
on bigger stages and speaking. They understand that to really
(29:21):
be influential thought leaders, they need to show more of themselves.
They can't just get by with showing static images. That
only gets you so far. But they struggle with that
next step because they've already started building their reputation online
and they don't want to let people down. They don't
want people to feel like, oh wow, that was a
(29:44):
disappointing video this person put up. I should not have
followed them in the first place. The truth is that
the audience only wants to learn from you. They don't
really care if your lighting isn't great or if you're
not able to make make your point in the most
sucsing twig. Yes, you should learn to speak in a
(30:06):
compelling way, because that will help you improve the qualities
of your videos, improve the quality of the way that
you speak on stage. But don't let the fear of
not being amazing stop you from taking that first step.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
Well said and received, that is good.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Listen This has been one of my favorite episodes, and
I want to make sure to give you some time
to maybe share what you're working on next and how
folks can get in contact with you. Will also share
everything in the description and show notes of the episode.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
The floor is.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Yours, awesome, Thank you. So I work with folks in
two ways. One is through one on one coaching, and
that's very select. I only take on a few clients
a month where we really work on refining the way
that they show up and making sure that they're there
most confident, compelling, influential selves. And then I'm actually working
(31:05):
on this exciting program which might be online by the
time this is online. Let's see. That's more for the
wider community, where the goal is to create a very
dynamic public speaking community that people can join and practice
whatever it is that they're working on, become better speakers,
(31:27):
become more confident, and make sure that we provide that
motivation and that accountability that's usually missing. If you have
that challenge for yourself, if you feel that this year
I really want to get on big stages, or this
year I want to make sure I launch my YouTube channel.
But you don't have someone to partner with. You don't
(31:49):
have a sounding board, that community will be your sounding board.
We would be there for you to help you first
figure out what it is that you should create, then
help you refine it and stay accountable and on track.
So for details on that, the best way to do
that is to be on my mailing list, so speaking
dot coach, that's where you can go to get on.
(32:11):
The newsletter also has a free course on building your
confidence and that's going to help you stay in touch
with this program, which I'm hoping to launch soon.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Nw Sheen, this has been an absolute honor and pleasure.
I've gained so much value from watching you over the
last year, to grow on LinkedIn and for you to
share a little bit of your life here with us.
I'm just truly grateful for your time and we look
forward to having you back on the show for next season.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Awesome. Thank you so much for having me. This was
a great conversation.
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