February 27, 2025 • 31 mins
Norbert is a skilled copywriter specializing in email marketing for coaches, course creators, and digital product sellers. He focuses on crafting concise and compelling copy that drives conversions. Norbert actively builds his brand and network on LinkedIn, using content and direct outreach to attract ideal clients.
LinkedIn account: https://www.linkedin.com/in/norbert-benedekffy/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Simplifying your writing is actually easier than it. It seems
like the way to simplify your writing is.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Just welcome back to Land to talk. I am your host,
Robin at Daniel and all the way from Romania.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
We got my.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Main man, Norbert Bennett Dickfie about to drop some jewels
about ghost writing, but also about how you can grow
your following on LinkedIn as a speaker or nonprofit. We
are just ready for this conversation, Norberd. Thank you for
joining me this morning.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Hey man, you actually nailed my family name, so I'm
pretty much impressed. Thanks for having me, man, Thanks for
having guess.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
I guess I'm getting an invite to.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Dinner and some beers for sure.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Man, that would be great. I bet Romania has some
amazing beers.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Amazing beers.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Yeah, we actually do.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Most people, like I have people from the US who
have been speaking with and the first thing they come
up with is you have Dracula and all the castles
and all that. But that's not it. That's just actually
for a tourist. So Romania is more popular. We have
great food, actually great drinks and yeah, like we actually
(01:25):
have a beer, a pretty strong beer history, very.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Nice, very nice. Well I have this when I'm in town.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I'm gonna start by, well, listen, you know, Norbert, I know,
we got a bunch of folks who are definitely interested
to learn more about what you do.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
I found you on LinkedIn.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
You're absolutely crushing it and I knew that you would
bring value to this community. So talk to me a
little bit about ghostwriting, what it means for folks who
are not familiar with it, and how it could help
people grow their nonprofits or their speaking careers or just
business in general.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Uh, well, ghost writing is you you have you have copywriting,
which is actually writing copy that is meant to sell
something or to have people take an action after they
read it. It's it's also it's also called direct response copywriting.
And then you have ghostwriting. But ghostwriting is all about
(02:21):
educating educating the audience. So instead of having having copy
on a website that gets you to buy whatever, it's more.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
About educating people.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
And what I do is I work with entrepreneurs, founders,
CEOs or uh pretty much is business owners who work
in the education space, and I write their emails. Now,
the the reason for for me having a job is
(02:57):
actually that these people off and have less time to
do everything by themselves. So when you're juggling marketing operations,
you do your business. For example, coaches have lots of calls,
so I have people I have to actually kicking the
ass over WhatsApp to review something, and I'm like pushing them,
(03:20):
so I'm proactively trying to get them keep them on track.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
So I basically take their ideas.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
And I write emails for them and help them make
more money by actually articulating their ideas. So and briefly
that's what I do.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Great, and talk to me a little bit about the
the course seven day course type email sequence because I was,
you know, recently invited to go down one of those
paths and it was amazing. Not only did it bring
(04:03):
me a ton of value, but just as a marketer
and as a business owner, I'm analyzing the flow of
it and it was very effective on how it impacted me,
So I can only imagine what it could do for
my clients. Talk to me about those seven day courses,
the power in them, and how maybe folks can leverage that.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
These courses are I'd like to call them educational email
courses or EC's.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
And like the.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Power in them is pretty simple, but most most people
failed to realize this. Ghostwriting is about education and the
EC or educational email courses is basically the same.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
The goal of them is to have people.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
You actually take people from the stage of being unaware
to the stage of being problem aware and all the way.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
To the point where they feel the pain.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
And let me give you an example, because if somebody
is listening for a first time, we go like this
dude is talking shit.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
So just an.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Example, if you have a problem in your life, let's
say headaches. Headaches can be caused by so many symptoms,
so all the way from dehydration to whatever, like blood
not flowing right through your neck or muscles, and like,
you can have like ten problems causing headaches. If you
(05:40):
don't know which problem is it, how can you solve it? So,
for example, if I'm a ghost writer, I write copy
that people understand and that people can be inspired from.
And if I want to, if I want to explain
(06:00):
this to a CEO who's who has in his headline
something like elevate your brand, which means it can mean
absolutely nothing or absolutely everything, but nobody knows what that means.
Or transform your business, transform can be transform it.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
To being worse right, So.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
If I want to tell them, I would I would
go into topics like why simplifying your your writing can
bring you more clients or why, So they can be
topics of why, what, what should you do?
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Why should you do it?
Speaker 1 (06:39):
So it's actually educating them on the problem that you're solving.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
So I'm a business owner, I'm hearing you, and I'm like, man,
I might want to try that, But this guy, he doesn't.
He doesn't know about, you know, running a sement business,
Like how can he create? How can he gohoest right
there for me? If he doesn't know the industry? What
would you say to those business owners that might be
interested in seeking services like this but have concerns that
(07:09):
the writer is not aware of the industry? How do
you handle that?
Speaker 4 (07:13):
I love it?
Speaker 1 (07:14):
And actually I had a client from the US, and
I told you, I'm I'm more I'm specializing in education businesses.
But I had a client who I really loved from
the first moment we jumped on a call. So he
was he seemed like the ideal client. The problem was
that he he had he had a spirit trading company,
(07:40):
so selling barrels whiskey from whiskeys to all the way
to I think they had something else too, but I
was focusing on that, uh, and it's something that I
had no idea about. So it's it's just the case
you were asking about. And let me tell you that
the less I know about something, the simpler I can
(08:03):
write about it. A founder or a CEO can think
that it's a bad thing for me to.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
Have, like knowledge is power.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
But if you have, if you have the knowledge about something,
if you already know something, you can't actually unlearn that,
and that that.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Affects your writing. Let me give you an example. Doctors.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
They go to med school, they spend five, seven, ten
years learning about that, and when they get in front
of a patient. When I go to doctors, I'm always asking, okay,
but what does that mean?
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Okay? Why is that?
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (08:48):
What will happen if so I bombarding with questions because
I have no idea what they are talking about. They
think people people have the same knowledge as them, or
that they need to express themselves using all these terms
that they learn in school because that makes them professional.
(09:11):
If you can't explain your thoughts to a fifth grader,
it's probably it's more probable that you don't know it
as as much as you should know the topic yourself.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
That's good. That's good.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yeah, because I know in the world of copywriting, you know,
in my day in my day work, you know, I
work with a pretty big marketing team, and that's one
thing we always are repeating to new people who come
onto the team, is that make it a little more
simple that a fifth grader could understand it, you know,
And I think that that's something, especially when you're getting
(09:50):
into very complex niches.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Folks almost feel like the dexterity of the complexity of
the conflict. There's yeah, you.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Know, like they want people to know like they know
words when it all actuality. A person who doesn't understand
all the way needs to have it broken down. So
I love that you mentioned that. Let's dig into that
a little bit more though, norbid So, I'm the same
business owner. Okay, you convinced me you can do my
cmen company. I trust you, norbrid Well, we had a beer,
(10:21):
you know, you had a whiskey client. I trust you,
but I can't afford you. Can you just give me
some tips on how I could do this myself, because
many of the folks out here might just be starting
their businesses, not ready to invest anything. Do you have
any tips that you could give folks if they wanted
to make their writing more simple?
Speaker 3 (10:40):
How could they do that? How could they do that?
Speaker 1 (10:43):
So as it more about simplifying the writing, or it's
more about building an educational email course, which should I
tackle first?
Speaker 2 (10:51):
I think you start with simple and then maybe go
right into the educational email course.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Okay, so well, simplifying your writing is actually easier than
it it seems like. But this blockage that I talked about,
which is called the curse of knowledge, can actually you
can be It can be hard, but it can be
also easy. The way it's the way to simplify your
(11:19):
writing is just take like how I do it is
like I actually prep prep the page before I start writing.
So for example, if I have a client and I
need to write him a ten email sequence, I actually
plan it first so I know what I'm writing, why
I'm doing that. Yeah, we can go into an educational
email course. So let's say I have and I will
(11:42):
launch mine soon so I can give it as an example.
People don't know what email systems they need, so I
planned an educational email course teaching them, why you should
have an email sequence system set up? What should you
be whereabout? Why should you care? How does this affect
(12:04):
your business? And how this can help you scale your business?
So I put all my ideas onto your paper. I
just open Google Docs and I just throw it there.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
And then I and then I ask myself questions, okay,
like if I'm talking about the educational email course, what
are the five the top five topics someone should need
to hear in order to actually get the value from
it to understand its power? Right, So it's these are
the same questions that I that that give me the
(12:38):
answer for them, for them, for the content that I
went through back when I was learning it, and I
said wow, or I was like uh huh okay, So
that's it. So then I have these topics in bullet
points or headlines, and then I ask myself again, okay,
(12:59):
like if I'm talking about the first topic, what should
I expand on or what are my arguments that I
should expand on for them to get my point?
Speaker 4 (13:09):
And then I just complete it and then I and.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Then I just write them. So I go, okay, So
the first one is this, these are the arguments. Okay,
how should I get my point across? I write those
down and after I have my first email, I also
go paragraph by paragraph go through them. And this is
the best question someone can ask themselves if they are unsure.
(13:33):
Does this sentence has have two meanings? It's if it's
a yes, it's not good. Like for example, if I
say transform your business, that can mean I don't know,
make make a profit of ten k per month or
lose five k in a month, like both qualify as transform.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
So that's not good.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
You want to delete that and you want to add
the thing that can have only a single meaning. So
get a client that pays you ten k a month
or get a client who pays you fifty k a
month is different from elevate your business. So I think
(14:19):
I talked about both of the topics.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
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Speaker 3 (14:30):
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Speaker 2 (14:31):
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(14:53):
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Speaker 3 (15:04):
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Speaker 2 (15:07):
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Speaker 3 (15:13):
That's good. That's really good. That's really good. So we'll
shift gears a little bit. So.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
I know that you in our green room discussion when
we were hanging out five am here Eastern time for you,
it's about noon in Romania. We were kicking it and
we talked a little bit about your journey and you
when you started out doing a bunch of things and
then kind of niching down. This conversation consistently comes up
(15:42):
with me, with clients, it comes up with friends. This
is just a hot topic and it's been for the
last couple of years. I know that there was a
whole movement with Gary Vee to be the niche, and
then there's a new wave of like, we really need
to focus on niching down if we want to get
(16:03):
that ideal client to commit and get and trust us.
So I wanted to get your take for a new entrepreneur,
someone who's pursuing something new, but they want to do
everything they have. I don't know if you guys have
this in Romania, but we have diners here and when
you go to the diners to sit down and eat,
these diners have like five page menus with everything on it.
(16:26):
But then we have some specialty shops where they just
make chicken. So talk to me about that. Do you
think people should niche down or do you think it's
really up to them if they want to be a generalist.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Look, I struggled for fourteen months on LinkedIn to actually
find my niche, to find what I want to talk about,
So it was just a bad time. Then I niched
down and I had my first inbound lead in twenty
(17:01):
four days. My first inbound call booked in thirty two days.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
I think.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
So my point is simple just to take away and
then I'm going to expand on this.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
If you're just starting out, to take.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
One problem for one audience and have one solution for that.
So for example, if you want to solve you can
be let's say a copywriter. You want to write a
copy for I don't know medical companies who are selling services,
for example, so like you want to niche down, and
(17:40):
the reason for it is super simple, as you say.
With restaurants, we have that, by the way, But for example,
I had a steak. I had a steak at restaurant
which serves as you said, like you can have chicken
to everything right, and they actually I wanted it.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
I wanted the steak medium.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
It wasn't so so.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
They just messed it up.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
But then when I want to I just wanted to
try out the restaurant. I had no idea how they
how they cook it. But whenever I want to eat
a good steak, I go to the place which does
only steaks or is specialized on the meat, and I'm
willing to pay a higher price for that. And it's
the same with everything. Last summer, I wanted to change
(18:31):
my phone's battery. I have an iPhone. We know how
sensible iPhones are, so I was like, okay, so I
can go to a generalist service that can change my
battery and maybe I will lose my water resistance.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
Maybe they will, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
The software will have bogs and my phone will just
it just won't work the way it used to. Or
I can go to a service that special and iPhones.
I pay a premium obviously, but I know the job's
done and it's done well.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
So I picked the second one.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Because the thing is, and what made me realize this
is that people are either going for quality or price.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
I'll say this again.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
If you're going to buy something, you're either looking for
the cheapest price or the best quality.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
Nobody nobody will.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Go go to your shop, or nobody will go on
the internet looking for quality and they will be like, hmm,
I will choose the second cheapest or sorry, the second
most expensive. No, if the best quality is the most
expensive one, I'll choose that one. Because I want quality.
(19:55):
I don't care about the price. If I will care
about the price, I will, well, I won't go hunting
for quality because I know that I can't afford that, right.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
So it's just a simple mind shift.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
And since I had since I realized this, I was like, yeah,
this is why some clients are willing to pay the
higher price, and some will negotiate. And those who negotiate,
And now I will tie this back to the awareness
levels are probably not aware of the values that you
bring to the table.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
That's good. That's a really good take. You had a
couple of nuggets there. I really like the quality of
price and I really like one problem one audience one
solution because I find that and this is something that
you know I'm always quite transparent on this show, is
(20:50):
that because I can do so much in my niche,
I have a bunch of offers that I can give
people and sometimes I just want to meet people with
they are. But in that sometimes it causes me distress
because now it's almost like we're using the restaurant, right,
So now I have all of the equipment for chicken
(21:12):
to make chicken, but I'm trying to also make the
steak too, and I don't even have the right pen.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
I don't have a grill.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
So I try to put stuff together and maybe the
quality of that is good, but it could be better
if I just focused. So that's something that I think
is a discipline, a discipline play talk to me about that.
What kind of discipline did it take from you being
a generalist for as long as you were and then
niching down to just be a ghostwriter.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
How did you develop that discipline?
Speaker 1 (21:45):
I think it's more like a mindset shift, because to
be disciplined, you actually you have to have a goal,
because discipline actually means taking in short term pain for
long term pleasure. So how I realized this was the
same way like I was thinking about.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
I was a generalist.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
I did from chat boss to Facebook ads to strategies
to email marketing to like all you can imagine, all
you can imagine. And when I started talking on LinkedIn,
I was like, I was super confused because I was
talking about everything. But then I put myself in my
(22:27):
audience's shoes and I was like, Okay, But if I'd
see someone talking about ads the next week right talking
about I don't know, effective copy, and the following week
talking about I don't know whatever, think about anything you want,
they won't know me for a single thing. Like they
(22:49):
will know me as the guy that always speaks about something.
But that's it, Like like a generalist phone service, for example.
Speaker 4 (22:58):
They do all the all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
But if I'll start talking about one thing and one
thing only.
Speaker 4 (23:05):
They will be like, Okay.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Norbert does email marketing, he does ghostwriting for founders, He
writes emails, and that's what he's talking about and that
is what he isn't is specializing in and that's his expertise.
So if I want that, or if I, let's say,
if I talk with someone who needs that, he will
(23:27):
be he will be the first guy that I will
remember for a recommendation or anything like that. So I
think this is the mindset shift. People have to realize
that if you and you know what the best thing
is about it, clients actually like, once you convince someone
(23:48):
that you're good in doing whatever you want to do
for a living, they will ask for more. So if
I if I sign a client to write his emails,
and he will realize, oh I need I actually need
to write someone to write my website copy or to
write my LinkedIn copy or whatever. Who will be the
(24:10):
first guy he reaches out to. It's me because I
already do that. And then like, this is the reason
I told told you that. I think that first first
thing to do is to niche down, narrow down, find
find that thing that you love doing, you're good at
the world needs, and the world is willing to pay
money for. So this is the ekey guy Japanese. I
(24:35):
think you should be familiar with that and from there
start locking in doing that and once you have once
you have reached your maximum clients. For example, I'm kept
at five clients. I can't take physically more than five clients,
and I don't have five clients yet. So if you're
(24:56):
watching a but once I get to the five clients
I'm looking after or I want to work with, then
I need to decide.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
There are two options.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
I can a hire someone to help me out grow
my business and do that one thing that I wanted
to or that I started with. Or the second is
to sell more services to the existing clients, which can
sound easier because you have the trust you have something
that works for them already, like you don't have to
(25:31):
prove yourself. You can be like, hey, I have the service.
I will help you do this, that and the other.
This is the cost, and they will be like, yeah,
well we know you, we trust you. They will ask
two to three questions and if they like the idea,
they will say, okay, yeah, let's do that.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
So this is.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
The main reason I advise everyone to just narrow down
focusing on one thing, being known for one thing, and
then you can you can actually make money and go
all the way. Like the Stars Stars are the limit
or the sky's the limit?
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Sky's the limit? I love that.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yeah, so I want to make sure I'm respectful of
your time. So I do have an important question. I
want to ask you as a copyright as a as
a ghostwriter.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Yes, before we finish up.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
So obviously we are in the age of AI. The
there are people out there who will say, like, why
would I get a ghostwriter?
Speaker 3 (26:35):
I can just get chat GPT to write it for me.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Talk to me about AI in your work, how it
impacts your work, and if folks are just relying on AI,
any suggestions, tips or commentary for them.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Well, if if somebody thinks AI can do the same
job as I do, they should go with it. So
I don't want to convince anyone to I don't know,
change their minds or something. But for those who are
high achievers and they want to learn the way with
AI is like this. I also use AI, so I
use it daily. It helps me write more. But with
(27:18):
AI is like this, you have to have ten percent.
Like in talking percentages, ten percent is you have to
know what you want from the AI. So you have
to have the prompt. Most people are like, write me
an email to sell this product whatever, and it comes
up with super generic stuff. My prompts are two to
(27:40):
three pages, so like, I have lots of things added
there so the AI knows what I'm looking for. Then
the AI will do eighty percent of the work, right,
the part lifting the boring stuff as many call it.
But then you have to have the rest of the
ten percent, And the rest of the ten percent is
(28:01):
still you Like, you have to know is this the
thing that I'm looking for? And if it's not what
I want modified in it, should I also? Should I
prompt the AI again so it modifies it, or should
I modify it myself? You can go both ways. But
the point is that AI. They say AI will replace everyone.
(28:25):
AI will replace only those who don't catch up with
it or who don't keep up with it. And I
also seen copywriters who hate on AI, and I think
that's wrong, and the reason for it is. Look, my
goal is to get content, to get value to my
client or my client's audiences and my audience. So the
(28:49):
more I can share my ideas, the more I can
articulate my ideas in emails, LinkedIn posts and whatever other channels,
more I can help people.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
And that's my goal and AI helps me achieve that.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Those who hate on AI, their goal is to sit
down eight hours and write.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
So I'm asking.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
You why should I like the first one that I
told you. I want to help people, So my goal
is to help others. This is why I'm writing, and
AI helps me achieve that goal. And the other ones
are thinking about themselves and their I don't know daily
routines and all that, and they disrespect others because they
(29:36):
fear they have a fear of getting left behind. Because
now it's not only those who are writers or can
be writers or can write their copies who actually know
how to approach writing, but they can be also, for example,
(29:57):
like managers, like those who can articulate them ideas, know
what they are looking for. I have the right knowledge.
They don't have to do the manual work anymore. And yeah,
like this is the difference. And this is my take
on this.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Well, that is a really good take, sir. I appreciate you. Listen.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
I want to leave some time for you to talk
about how folks can get in contact with you if
they want to jump on a call or learn more
about your services.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
The floor is yours.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Oh yeah, like I'm launching I'm launching my own educational
of course, either today or on Monday, not true when
this is coming out, but they can. They can get
in touch there to see what this is all about.
They can find me on my linked In. I'm going
to remove the actual book a call link from my
(30:48):
profile in a few days, as soon as I launched
my website, because what I found to be true is
that people like I have booked calls from people who
are not ready to work with me and people who
I can't help. I don't want to waste their times
and I don't want to waste mine because that's super
(31:10):
important to me. But they can they can kind of
get in touch with me on LinkedIn. Just send me
a DM. I'm easy to talk to, so that's okay, uh,
And they can find every information on my LinkedIn, including
my website and yeah anything else, so LinkedIn LinkedIn's where
I'm at.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
All right, Norbert, this has been an absolute pleasure, sir.
When I come to Romania, will definitely have to go
grab a steak and we'll make sure that it's cooke medium.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
The beers on me.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
So if you're coming this way, let me know and
we we can have have some beers and some good steaks.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Looking forward to talk to you soon.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
Thanks for having me Man Talks and
Simplifying your writing is actually easier than it. It seems
like the way to simplify your writing is.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Just welcome back to Land to talk. I am your host,
Robin at Daniel and all the way from Romania.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
We got my.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Main man, Norbert Bennett Dickfie about to drop some jewels
about ghost writing, but also about how you can grow
your following on LinkedIn as a speaker or nonprofit. We
are just ready for this conversation, Norberd. Thank you for
joining me this morning.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Hey man, you actually nailed my family name, so I'm
pretty much impressed. Thanks for having me, man, Thanks for
having guess.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
I guess I'm getting an invite to.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Dinner and some beers for sure.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Man, that would be great. I bet Romania has some
amazing beers.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Amazing beers.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Yeah, we actually do.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Most people, like I have people from the US who
have been speaking with and the first thing they come
up with is you have Dracula and all the castles
and all that. But that's not it. That's just actually
for a tourist. So Romania is more popular. We have
great food, actually great drinks and yeah, like we actually
(01:25):
have a beer, a pretty strong beer history, very.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Nice, very nice. Well I have this when I'm in town.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I'm gonna start by, well, listen, you know, Norbert, I know,
we got a bunch of folks who are definitely interested
to learn more about what you do.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
I found you on LinkedIn.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
You're absolutely crushing it and I knew that you would
bring value to this community. So talk to me a
little bit about ghostwriting, what it means for folks who
are not familiar with it, and how it could help
people grow their nonprofits or their speaking careers or just
business in general.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Uh, well, ghost writing is you you have you have copywriting,
which is actually writing copy that is meant to sell
something or to have people take an action after they
read it. It's it's also it's also called direct response copywriting.
And then you have ghostwriting. But ghostwriting is all about
(02:21):
educating educating the audience. So instead of having having copy
on a website that gets you to buy whatever, it's more.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
About educating people.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
And what I do is I work with entrepreneurs, founders,
CEOs or uh pretty much is business owners who work
in the education space, and I write their emails. Now,
the the reason for for me having a job is
(02:57):
actually that these people off and have less time to
do everything by themselves. So when you're juggling marketing operations,
you do your business. For example, coaches have lots of calls,
so I have people I have to actually kicking the
ass over WhatsApp to review something, and I'm like pushing them,
(03:20):
so I'm proactively trying to get them keep them on track.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
So I basically take their ideas.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
And I write emails for them and help them make
more money by actually articulating their ideas. So and briefly
that's what I do.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Great, and talk to me a little bit about the
the course seven day course type email sequence because I was,
you know, recently invited to go down one of those
paths and it was amazing. Not only did it bring
(04:03):
me a ton of value, but just as a marketer
and as a business owner, I'm analyzing the flow of
it and it was very effective on how it impacted me,
So I can only imagine what it could do for
my clients. Talk to me about those seven day courses,
the power in them, and how maybe folks can leverage that.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
These courses are I'd like to call them educational email
courses or EC's.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
And like the.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Power in them is pretty simple, but most most people
failed to realize this. Ghostwriting is about education and the
EC or educational email courses is basically the same.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
The goal of them is to have people.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
You actually take people from the stage of being unaware
to the stage of being problem aware and all the way.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
To the point where they feel the pain.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
And let me give you an example, because if somebody
is listening for a first time, we go like this
dude is talking shit.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
So just an.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Example, if you have a problem in your life, let's
say headaches. Headaches can be caused by so many symptoms,
so all the way from dehydration to whatever, like blood
not flowing right through your neck or muscles, and like,
you can have like ten problems causing headaches. If you
(05:40):
don't know which problem is it, how can you solve it? So,
for example, if I'm a ghost writer, I write copy
that people understand and that people can be inspired from.
And if I want to, if I want to explain
(06:00):
this to a CEO who's who has in his headline
something like elevate your brand, which means it can mean
absolutely nothing or absolutely everything, but nobody knows what that means.
Or transform your business, transform can be transform it.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
To being worse right, So.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
If I want to tell them, I would I would
go into topics like why simplifying your your writing can
bring you more clients or why, So they can be
topics of why, what, what should you do?
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Why should you do it?
Speaker 1 (06:39):
So it's actually educating them on the problem that you're solving.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
So I'm a business owner, I'm hearing you, and I'm like, man,
I might want to try that, But this guy, he doesn't.
He doesn't know about, you know, running a sement business,
Like how can he create? How can he gohoest right
there for me? If he doesn't know the industry? What
would you say to those business owners that might be
interested in seeking services like this but have concerns that
(07:09):
the writer is not aware of the industry? How do
you handle that?
Speaker 4 (07:13):
I love it?
Speaker 1 (07:14):
And actually I had a client from the US, and
I told you, I'm I'm more I'm specializing in education businesses.
But I had a client who I really loved from
the first moment we jumped on a call. So he
was he seemed like the ideal client. The problem was
that he he had he had a spirit trading company,
(07:40):
so selling barrels whiskey from whiskeys to all the way
to I think they had something else too, but I
was focusing on that, uh, and it's something that I
had no idea about. So it's it's just the case
you were asking about. And let me tell you that
the less I know about something, the simpler I can
(08:03):
write about it. A founder or a CEO can think
that it's a bad thing for me to.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
Have, like knowledge is power.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
But if you have, if you have the knowledge about something,
if you already know something, you can't actually unlearn that,
and that that.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Affects your writing. Let me give you an example. Doctors.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
They go to med school, they spend five, seven, ten
years learning about that, and when they get in front
of a patient. When I go to doctors, I'm always asking, okay,
but what does that mean?
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Okay? Why is that?
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (08:48):
What will happen if so I bombarding with questions because
I have no idea what they are talking about. They
think people people have the same knowledge as them, or
that they need to express themselves using all these terms
that they learn in school because that makes them professional.
(09:11):
If you can't explain your thoughts to a fifth grader,
it's probably it's more probable that you don't know it
as as much as you should know the topic yourself.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
That's good. That's good.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yeah, because I know in the world of copywriting, you know,
in my day in my day work, you know, I
work with a pretty big marketing team, and that's one
thing we always are repeating to new people who come
onto the team, is that make it a little more
simple that a fifth grader could understand it, you know,
And I think that that's something, especially when you're getting
(09:50):
into very complex niches.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Folks almost feel like the dexterity of the complexity of
the conflict. There's yeah, you.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Know, like they want people to know like they know
words when it all actuality. A person who doesn't understand
all the way needs to have it broken down. So
I love that you mentioned that. Let's dig into that
a little bit more though, norbid So, I'm the same
business owner. Okay, you convinced me you can do my
cmen company. I trust you, norbrid Well, we had a beer,
(10:21):
you know, you had a whiskey client. I trust you,
but I can't afford you. Can you just give me
some tips on how I could do this myself, because
many of the folks out here might just be starting
their businesses, not ready to invest anything. Do you have
any tips that you could give folks if they wanted
to make their writing more simple?
Speaker 3 (10:40):
How could they do that? How could they do that?
Speaker 1 (10:43):
So as it more about simplifying the writing, or it's
more about building an educational email course, which should I
tackle first?
Speaker 2 (10:51):
I think you start with simple and then maybe go
right into the educational email course.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Okay, so well, simplifying your writing is actually easier than
it it seems like. But this blockage that I talked about,
which is called the curse of knowledge, can actually you
can be It can be hard, but it can be
also easy. The way it's the way to simplify your
(11:19):
writing is just take like how I do it is
like I actually prep prep the page before I start writing.
So for example, if I have a client and I
need to write him a ten email sequence, I actually
plan it first so I know what I'm writing, why
I'm doing that. Yeah, we can go into an educational
email course. So let's say I have and I will
(11:42):
launch mine soon so I can give it as an example.
People don't know what email systems they need, so I
planned an educational email course teaching them, why you should
have an email sequence system set up? What should you
be whereabout? Why should you care? How does this affect
(12:04):
your business? And how this can help you scale your business?
So I put all my ideas onto your paper. I
just open Google Docs and I just throw it there.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
And then I and then I ask myself questions, okay,
like if I'm talking about the educational email course, what
are the five the top five topics someone should need
to hear in order to actually get the value from
it to understand its power? Right, So it's these are
the same questions that I that that give me the
(12:38):
answer for them, for them, for the content that I
went through back when I was learning it, and I
said wow, or I was like uh huh okay, So
that's it. So then I have these topics in bullet
points or headlines, and then I ask myself again, okay,
(12:59):
like if I'm talking about the first topic, what should
I expand on or what are my arguments that I
should expand on for them to get my point?
Speaker 4 (13:09):
And then I just complete it and then I and.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Then I just write them. So I go, okay, So
the first one is this, these are the arguments. Okay,
how should I get my point across? I write those
down and after I have my first email, I also
go paragraph by paragraph go through them. And this is
the best question someone can ask themselves if they are unsure.
(13:33):
Does this sentence has have two meanings? It's if it's
a yes, it's not good. Like for example, if I
say transform your business, that can mean I don't know,
make make a profit of ten k per month or
lose five k in a month, like both qualify as transform.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
So that's not good.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
You want to delete that and you want to add
the thing that can have only a single meaning. So
get a client that pays you ten k a month
or get a client who pays you fifty k a
month is different from elevate your business. So I think
(14:19):
I talked about both of the topics.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
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Speaker 3 (14:30):
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Speaker 2 (14:31):
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(14:53):
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Speaker 3 (15:04):
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Speaker 2 (15:07):
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Speaker 3 (15:13):
That's good. That's really good. That's really good. So we'll
shift gears a little bit. So.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
I know that you in our green room discussion when
we were hanging out five am here Eastern time for you,
it's about noon in Romania. We were kicking it and
we talked a little bit about your journey and you
when you started out doing a bunch of things and
then kind of niching down. This conversation consistently comes up
(15:42):
with me, with clients, it comes up with friends. This
is just a hot topic and it's been for the
last couple of years. I know that there was a
whole movement with Gary Vee to be the niche, and
then there's a new wave of like, we really need
to focus on niching down if we want to get
(16:03):
that ideal client to commit and get and trust us.
So I wanted to get your take for a new entrepreneur,
someone who's pursuing something new, but they want to do
everything they have. I don't know if you guys have
this in Romania, but we have diners here and when
you go to the diners to sit down and eat,
these diners have like five page menus with everything on it.
(16:26):
But then we have some specialty shops where they just
make chicken. So talk to me about that. Do you
think people should niche down or do you think it's
really up to them if they want to be a generalist.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Look, I struggled for fourteen months on LinkedIn to actually
find my niche, to find what I want to talk about,
So it was just a bad time. Then I niched
down and I had my first inbound lead in twenty
(17:01):
four days. My first inbound call booked in thirty two days.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
I think.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
So my point is simple just to take away and
then I'm going to expand on this.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
If you're just starting out, to take.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
One problem for one audience and have one solution for that.
So for example, if you want to solve you can
be let's say a copywriter. You want to write a
copy for I don't know medical companies who are selling services,
for example, so like you want to niche down, and
(17:40):
the reason for it is super simple, as you say.
With restaurants, we have that, by the way, But for example,
I had a steak. I had a steak at restaurant
which serves as you said, like you can have chicken
to everything right, and they actually I wanted it.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
I wanted the steak medium.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
It wasn't so so.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
They just messed it up.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
But then when I want to I just wanted to
try out the restaurant. I had no idea how they
how they cook it. But whenever I want to eat
a good steak, I go to the place which does
only steaks or is specialized on the meat, and I'm
willing to pay a higher price for that. And it's
the same with everything. Last summer, I wanted to change
(18:31):
my phone's battery. I have an iPhone. We know how
sensible iPhones are, so I was like, okay, so I
can go to a generalist service that can change my
battery and maybe I will lose my water resistance.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
Maybe they will, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
The software will have bogs and my phone will just
it just won't work the way it used to. Or
I can go to a service that special and iPhones.
I pay a premium obviously, but I know the job's
done and it's done well.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
So I picked the second one.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Because the thing is, and what made me realize this
is that people are either going for quality or price.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
I'll say this again.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
If you're going to buy something, you're either looking for
the cheapest price or the best quality.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
Nobody nobody will.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Go go to your shop, or nobody will go on
the internet looking for quality and they will be like, hmm,
I will choose the second cheapest or sorry, the second
most expensive. No, if the best quality is the most
expensive one, I'll choose that one. Because I want quality.
(19:55):
I don't care about the price. If I will care
about the price, I will, well, I won't go hunting
for quality because I know that I can't afford that, right.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
So it's just a simple mind shift.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
And since I had since I realized this, I was like, yeah,
this is why some clients are willing to pay the
higher price, and some will negotiate. And those who negotiate,
And now I will tie this back to the awareness
levels are probably not aware of the values that you
bring to the table.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
That's good. That's a really good take. You had a
couple of nuggets there. I really like the quality of
price and I really like one problem one audience one
solution because I find that and this is something that
you know I'm always quite transparent on this show, is
(20:50):
that because I can do so much in my niche,
I have a bunch of offers that I can give
people and sometimes I just want to meet people with
they are. But in that sometimes it causes me distress
because now it's almost like we're using the restaurant, right,
So now I have all of the equipment for chicken
(21:12):
to make chicken, but I'm trying to also make the
steak too, and I don't even have the right pen.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
I don't have a grill.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
So I try to put stuff together and maybe the
quality of that is good, but it could be better
if I just focused. So that's something that I think
is a discipline, a discipline play talk to me about that.
What kind of discipline did it take from you being
a generalist for as long as you were and then
niching down to just be a ghostwriter.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
How did you develop that discipline?
Speaker 1 (21:45):
I think it's more like a mindset shift, because to
be disciplined, you actually you have to have a goal,
because discipline actually means taking in short term pain for
long term pleasure. So how I realized this was the
same way like I was thinking about.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
I was a generalist.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
I did from chat boss to Facebook ads to strategies
to email marketing to like all you can imagine, all
you can imagine. And when I started talking on LinkedIn,
I was like, I was super confused because I was
talking about everything. But then I put myself in my
(22:27):
audience's shoes and I was like, Okay, But if I'd
see someone talking about ads the next week right talking
about I don't know, effective copy, and the following week
talking about I don't know whatever, think about anything you want,
they won't know me for a single thing. Like they
(22:49):
will know me as the guy that always speaks about something.
But that's it, Like like a generalist phone service, for example.
Speaker 4 (22:58):
They do all the all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
But if I'll start talking about one thing and one
thing only.
Speaker 4 (23:05):
They will be like, Okay.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Norbert does email marketing, he does ghostwriting for founders, He
writes emails, and that's what he's talking about and that
is what he isn't is specializing in and that's his expertise.
So if I want that, or if I, let's say,
if I talk with someone who needs that, he will
(23:27):
be he will be the first guy that I will
remember for a recommendation or anything like that. So I
think this is the mindset shift. People have to realize
that if you and you know what the best thing
is about it, clients actually like, once you convince someone
(23:48):
that you're good in doing whatever you want to do
for a living, they will ask for more. So if
I if I sign a client to write his emails,
and he will realize, oh I need I actually need
to write someone to write my website copy or to
write my LinkedIn copy or whatever. Who will be the
(24:10):
first guy he reaches out to. It's me because I
already do that. And then like, this is the reason
I told told you that. I think that first first
thing to do is to niche down, narrow down, find
find that thing that you love doing, you're good at
the world needs, and the world is willing to pay
money for. So this is the ekey guy Japanese. I
(24:35):
think you should be familiar with that and from there
start locking in doing that and once you have once
you have reached your maximum clients. For example, I'm kept
at five clients. I can't take physically more than five clients,
and I don't have five clients yet. So if you're
(24:56):
watching a but once I get to the five clients
I'm looking after or I want to work with, then
I need to decide.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
There are two options.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
I can a hire someone to help me out grow
my business and do that one thing that I wanted
to or that I started with. Or the second is
to sell more services to the existing clients, which can
sound easier because you have the trust you have something
that works for them already, like you don't have to
(25:31):
prove yourself. You can be like, hey, I have the service.
I will help you do this, that and the other.
This is the cost, and they will be like, yeah,
well we know you, we trust you. They will ask
two to three questions and if they like the idea,
they will say, okay, yeah, let's do that.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
So this is.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
The main reason I advise everyone to just narrow down
focusing on one thing, being known for one thing, and
then you can you can actually make money and go
all the way. Like the Stars Stars are the limit
or the sky's the limit?
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Sky's the limit? I love that.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yeah, so I want to make sure I'm respectful of
your time. So I do have an important question. I
want to ask you as a copyright as a as
a ghostwriter.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Yes, before we finish up.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
So obviously we are in the age of AI. The
there are people out there who will say, like, why
would I get a ghostwriter?
Speaker 3 (26:35):
I can just get chat GPT to write it for me.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Talk to me about AI in your work, how it
impacts your work, and if folks are just relying on AI,
any suggestions, tips or commentary for them.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Well, if if somebody thinks AI can do the same
job as I do, they should go with it. So
I don't want to convince anyone to I don't know,
change their minds or something. But for those who are
high achievers and they want to learn the way with
AI is like this. I also use AI, so I
use it daily. It helps me write more. But with
(27:18):
AI is like this, you have to have ten percent.
Like in talking percentages, ten percent is you have to
know what you want from the AI. So you have
to have the prompt. Most people are like, write me
an email to sell this product whatever, and it comes
up with super generic stuff. My prompts are two to
(27:40):
three pages, so like, I have lots of things added
there so the AI knows what I'm looking for. Then
the AI will do eighty percent of the work, right,
the part lifting the boring stuff as many call it.
But then you have to have the rest of the
ten percent, And the rest of the ten percent is
(28:01):
still you Like, you have to know is this the
thing that I'm looking for? And if it's not what
I want modified in it, should I also? Should I
prompt the AI again so it modifies it, or should
I modify it myself? You can go both ways. But
the point is that AI. They say AI will replace everyone.
(28:25):
AI will replace only those who don't catch up with
it or who don't keep up with it. And I
also seen copywriters who hate on AI, and I think
that's wrong, and the reason for it is. Look, my
goal is to get content, to get value to my
client or my client's audiences and my audience. So the
(28:49):
more I can share my ideas, the more I can
articulate my ideas in emails, LinkedIn posts and whatever other channels,
more I can help people.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
And that's my goal and AI helps me achieve that.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Those who hate on AI, their goal is to sit
down eight hours and write.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
So I'm asking.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
You why should I like the first one that I
told you. I want to help people, So my goal
is to help others. This is why I'm writing, and
AI helps me achieve that goal. And the other ones
are thinking about themselves and their I don't know daily
routines and all that, and they disrespect others because they
(29:36):
fear they have a fear of getting left behind. Because
now it's not only those who are writers or can
be writers or can write their copies who actually know
how to approach writing, but they can be also, for example,
(29:57):
like managers, like those who can articulate them ideas, know
what they are looking for. I have the right knowledge.
They don't have to do the manual work anymore. And yeah,
like this is the difference. And this is my take
on this.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Well, that is a really good take, sir. I appreciate you. Listen.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
I want to leave some time for you to talk
about how folks can get in contact with you if
they want to jump on a call or learn more
about your services.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
The floor is yours.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Oh yeah, like I'm launching I'm launching my own educational
of course, either today or on Monday, not true when
this is coming out, but they can. They can get
in touch there to see what this is all about.
They can find me on my linked In. I'm going
to remove the actual book a call link from my
(30:48):
profile in a few days, as soon as I launched
my website, because what I found to be true is
that people like I have booked calls from people who
are not ready to work with me and people who
I can't help. I don't want to waste their times
and I don't want to waste mine because that's super
(31:10):
important to me. But they can they can kind of
get in touch with me on LinkedIn. Just send me
a DM. I'm easy to talk to, so that's okay, uh,
And they can find every information on my LinkedIn, including
my website and yeah anything else, so LinkedIn LinkedIn's where
I'm at.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
All right, Norbert, this has been an absolute pleasure, sir.
When I come to Romania, will definitely have to go
grab a steak and we'll make sure that it's cooke medium.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
The beers on me.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
So if you're coming this way, let me know and
we we can have have some beers and some good steaks.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Looking forward to talk to you soon.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
Thanks for having me Man Talks and
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