Un consenso improbable

El camino a la Asamblea Nacional Constituyente parece un recuerdo lejano e imposible, ¿por qué parece que no se va a repetir algo semejante?

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Both in its origin thirty years agoand today. We must see another expression
of that Constitution to understand that itdid change the country, not in time
or in law, but in thedynamics and spirit of the times. And
I' m talking about what aboutthe peeled ones who have been on the
street all this time, who havegiven up their lives for change, with

(00:25):
seventy dead, a thousand missing,who are appearing dismembered, who have breast
- breathed the horror of fascism inpower, are evidently a product of the
Constitution of the late ninety- one. I don' t know how late.
Historical times have dynamics that are totallydifferent from the real times, but
without that Constitution of the nineties andone, without that ideological openness, so

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only in the the thesis produced bythe Constitution, the peelers of today would
not have been empowered. The peoplepresented the new and the frozen promise of

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the Presidency of Tosía with all theparties most voted in the presidential election and
disproposed that on December 9 of thatyear the first Constitutional Assembly of seventy members
was enjoyed in the first seven monthsof the year of one thousand nine hundred

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and ninety- one, which hada specific agenda of special spaces for other
organizations since the signing of peace weights, we of n nineteen who had peace,
coinciding at that historic moment. Ifyou liked it that way, it

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was just one of this historical coincidence, but we support it. The idea
of Assemblies from the beginning. Wethen signed the Liberal, Conservative and national
salvation movement, which was the institutionalprice when the decree was on the site

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was called to vote on that December9 all the conditions that were already defined.
He went to the television of thesupreme awakening of Justice, the supreme
accent of justice. In this depodethe constitutional review of the state rights of
the site and were of and inthe opening of pomegranate of justice. Jos

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said everything, and that was avery important modification. If the cefera on
the 9th of December of the dayof the oction, if from the other
sixty members have sat for five monthsin the ninety- one, if they
described some additional weights, but otherorganizations and cidiades. Do de paz,
but I succeed the agenda and byremoving it from the agenda, it opened

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the way to the possibility of gonea resentation of a thousand seven hundred and
eighty- six, that is,the Assembly Constitution Ante. If it could
not be final new or its endconditionings in terms of that there was a
previously defined thread, none, someparameters previously pointed out, neither any.

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It was this way, of course, to see how we achieved the construction
of the country with which we dreamed, to see what things had to be
claimed, and one of the nicethings was to perceive the voice of the
Colombians, because to the constituent camethe projects that were elaborated at the working

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tables that the Government had organized throughoutthe country, all over the country,
the projects, of course, thatpresented, presented, the own constituents,
the projects of organizations, academic organizations, political organizations, trade union organizations,
organization of retired military at the endof the world. That voice of the
country was gathered in all the projectsthat were at our disposal, in the

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computers that they put us in andfrom which we began to discuss, to
work, to write, to tryto convince each other, to try to
agree with each other. At first, I didn' t have much faith
that it could work out, becausethe group of constituents was their main merit,

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but it was also an inconvenience,particularly diverse. That' s where
everybody was. As has been pointedout, that Assembly of ninety- one
was a pluralist Assembly in political andsocial matters, because there were represented sectors
that had never had a level ofrepresentation in Congress, such as the one

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that fled you in the Assembly.But that came at a time of constitutional
momentum in favour of conciliation, conciliationand the pact. That institutional toncess was
the cousin when he took all thiselection stuff. In December of nineteen hundred

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and ninety the seventy members of theAssembly were said. No one here felt
the absolute majority. Nove twenty-four, not twenty- five, is
said this year, more or lessthe 19 Liberals, nine eleven of the
national salvation movements. The conservative partiesin various groups had two fart videos,

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on the one hand, but theseare dined nine, two of the Patriotic
Union, and two indigenous and twoChristians. Novelis of courtyards were organized through
istia church organizations when the country madethe determination that it wanted a constituent body,
a constituent body that was of popularchoice. Second, the rest came

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in addition and was positively added.One. There was no project that would
have been the basis on which theConstitution was made, because the project submitted
by the Government, the incoming constituentsaid that would be one more project and
will be taken into account in thesame way as the other projects are taken

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into account. So, unlike whathad happened in all the constituent processes of
the country, except the one ofone thousand nine hundred ten, where we
had put it this way, aformat, a pre- developed script,
which was the project that was generallypresented by the Government. There wasn'
t much success here. Secondly,in the popular election and, consequently,

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the opening up to the whole countryso that anyone wishing to become a constituent
could submit his name to the considerationof Colombians and be elected or not to
be elected according to what happened interms of results. If one takes a
photograph of the Constituent Assembly of onethousand nine hundred and ninety- one,

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let' s say, someone couldhighlight diversity as negative. I think it
' s the most positive thing thatsomeone said is that there are very few
constituents, sorry, very little constitutionalists. And yes, perhaps there weren'
t many constitutionalists, but someone oncetaught me quite rightly. I say that

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constitutions must be made by constituents andnot by constitutionalists. The constitutionalists come later
when the Constitution is already in place. And that was how positive he was.
There were teachers, there were tradeunionists, there was a former president
of the Republic, there were formerministers, there were politicians, there were
lawyers, there were doctors, therewere engineers, there were peasants, there

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were indigenous people, whom we hadnever heard in five hundred years of history
for any effect. That seems tome to have been absolutely positive. And
another thing that turned out and thecomposition of the heads of the Assembly turned
out well when it came to theconclusion that we were going to have a
tripartite presidency, so there was nota single party that could say so to

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exercise a primacy over the Constituent Assembly, or anything like that. The three
presidents belonged, therefore, to quitedifferent clients of the Lemeus nineteen National Salvation
and the Liberal Party representing him,and then in each of the commissions there
was a President who belonged to anotherof the great groups that were there,
so that the Constituent was a uniquebody, a univocal body, if there

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is an expression where there was nopredominance of anyone. That was also good
for the Rules of Procedure of theAssembly, which we drafted and approved for
the Assembly to function. No onecould speak on a subject more than twenty
minutes and, therefore, we didnot have the infinite discourses that used to
be given in cases like that inany way. People had to put their

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speech together very precisely, very clearly, very briefly, and that allowed everyone
to be heard in the course ofthe Assembly. No one can say that
there was a voice or two voicesor five voices that took over the Assembly
and that they were the ones thatmanaged to move forward their way of thinking,

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as had happened in the eighty-sixth year with Miguel Antonio Caro and
José María de Sanper to mention thetwo most representative to one tell of the
Constitution of the ninety- one.Tell me two names or three names and
no two names or three names?It was a thing that emerged from the
collegiate body of the Assembly. Withall that has been good, in the
past of constitutional reforms they were theresult of pacts of gentlemen between members of

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the traditional parties and nothing more.So this, indeed, if it opens
the space of participation. Now.One very interesting thing and this also thinking
in key, for example, ofwhat is happening with the Constituent Assembly in
Chile is that since this form ofparticipation is different from that of the regular
elections. I remember very much thatat that time there was a debate about

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how little people had voted for themembers of the Constituent Assembly, because the
level of abstention was enormous. Sonew figures come in, but at the
same time, people don' tfeel so hooked in the voting process because
in a country where clientelism has beena place, a traditional practice, let
' s say that there were votinglevels when you couldn' t promise posts,

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for example, let' s sayposed a huge challenge. But despite
these difficulties, I believe that therewas an expansion of political participation and very
important figures were constituted for the Colombianpolitical process in the context of the constituent.
Without any doubt, the neoconstitutionalism ofthe nineties in the world had many
aspirations and it was that it isof ontological, that is, the Constitution

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is a duty to be and,of course, it has to be distant,
being must feel unattainable and it hasto feel as laborious and it has
to feel photo of a society ofwhich we are not, because if it
was not the aspirational text that makesus fairer, to be more plural,
to be more independent, to sayall the powerful mandates that the Constitution has.

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I think it' s normal forhim to feel that way. Let
' s say if it' snormal that at the break I think precisely
that this is why the Constituent NationalAssembly was a success, it was a
revolutionary political fact, and the questionwas that we want to be not what
we are. Then it was normalpears that when Congress was re- formed,
it was what we are. Whatwe say about Congress today is entering,

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today, in the middle of thebiggest social outburst that this country made
in decades, unconstitutional reforms are goingthrough, all of them ending the separation
of powers. Let' s sayit wasn' t clear that it was
a recess, a good recess tothink about. I think, a recess
to think what we want to be. I think it has to be understood

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that the Constitution of the 1990s andone was also issued at a time when
there really was almost a consensus ona need for constitutional change. We should
not forget that we had three failedreforms or attempts at constitutional reform since López
' s small constituent, which theSupreme Court pointed out could not be done

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because in the pleiscit of fifty-seven people had said that only the Constitution
could be reformed through Congress. Thencame the reform bill presented by Turbaya Yala,
which the Supreme Court of Justice declaredunconstitutional on the grounds that the procedure
had been inadequate in Congress. Thencomes a very hard one that was the

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proposal of Barco that presented in Congressand that, while the debates had advanced,
one of the proposals was to prohibitextradition, which was precisely the flag
of Pablo Escobar and the Medellín Poster, so that the President had to withdraw
the reform. So we had tosay a few illusions but almost a consensus

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that there was a real need toreform the Charter, to reform a number
of institutional blockades that we had apartfrom the Constitution of eighty- six.
It was a Constitution that, likethis one, has had many reforms anyway.
It was a Constitution of one thousandeight hundred and eighty- six that

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was not really responding to the challengesand were many of the great claims of
the time. Obviously, it wasthe block- in- participation. We
had a vision of society or participationin society that was only allowed for some
a little inheritance to the conservative LiberalNational Front. Then we also had a

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vision of society, as if wewere a homogeneous society, when in reality
we are not. We are acity, a fairly plural society, and
we came from a very complex thingfrom the Constitution of eighty- six.
And it is that we really livealmost but more than thirty years in a

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state of emergency, either because wewere in the State of siege, in
the so- called state of siege, or because the rules of State of
siege had been adopted as ordinary legislation. So we really weren' t living
in full rule of law. Wewere away from that. And I think
let' s say that all this, with endemic violence and all the institutional

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blockades, was accumulating and they wereaccumulating towards saying a call to have more
democracy. That is very interesting ofthe constituent moment and is that, in
such a great mode of violence,we were not asking for authoritarianism, we
are asking for democracy. And thatwas a project, the Constitution of the

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ninety- one, in my opinion, was a democracy project. Democracies change
what is acceptable at some point,over time it can become a vice,
a defect, an insufficient resource.We tend to confuse the history of a
country with its needs, that is, we tend to believe that, because

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we have repeated the same routines foryears, this does not obey our behavior,
but in the requirements of the system. It is easy to turn a
vice into part of our national identityand it is very difficult to abandon vices.
What happened in nine hundred and ninety- one feels like an unlikely event,

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often ineffable and pitifully unrepeatable. Orat least that' s suspected.
How we came to build a momentlike the one given by the National Constituent
Assembly and the Constitution of nine hundredand ninety- one. When we began
to talk, I gave mejía andhe, as I said to him,

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came from being the commander of theepl en uraba, because at first,
because he must have thought the samething as I thought. We will never
agree, because we are too different, because we belong to very different worlds,
because we are simply different. Andit' s true, we started
talking, he told me his lifeand I told him mine, and he

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told me his ideas and I toldme mine. Thus, he did not
one day visit the constituent, hislittle girls and introduced them to me and
after that visit we began to talkabout the children. And speaking of the
children, we started talking about thecountry he dreamed of for his and me

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for mine. And that' swhere we started to agree on how we
had to build something worth thinking about. Then differences can be overcome. The
differences can be overcome, I repeat, through dialogue, to seek to convince
and accept the possibility of being convinced. But here we' re used to

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the fact that I' m notconvinced by anyone. I' m not
convinced by anyone. And whoever triesto convince me, then I read why
they hear it. Accept the reasonsthat may have that person who usually takes
them into account, valorise them andsee what that can translate? And to
seek and find consensus formulas. Thatis what I call the spirit of the

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constituent and the Constitution of the ninety- one. That is what we have
to raise again to solve much ofour problems. It was proposed that we
should have a different presence. Themoney they put in if they were more
important presidency, we nineteen are thefirst vice president. We would like to

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make a more loaned group and nationalsale, the third most borrowed second Vice
- Chair. I wasn' tconvinced by that idea. I,Álvaro,
or mesmerized and proposed to you wemade a different sheet, we gave
a collegial Presidency and from the firstmoment where the stages isÁlvaro, some
result in a stop besides traitoncilviation butyes, Gómez had been laid down.

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But the two thousand nineteen, ina thousand nine hundred and eighty- eight,
I pertic in that decision, alreadyin that event, for I was
out of the country without legs froma thousand nine hundred and eighty- five,
but without a moment, from settlementand even old the collegial Presidency,

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a little for the liberals, anotherfor us, the EDM and another for
national salvation. Under the conditions ofa top presidency. We didn' t
initially say anything to obliquities We followedmost of that and once there was a
majority. The day began the sessionsof the stuience and tamas to the truth
of ours we had had greater andthere and they finally accepted cental tensences on

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the Constituent Assembly of the year ninety- one. He was popularly elected by
the direct vote of the citizens,which had never happened in the 20th century.
It was the product of an agreementreached by many sectors. Then it
was diverse, it was pluralist andthat Assembly I chose from December 9,

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1990. It was an assembly inwhich no sector of those who participated achieved
the majority. I think that thevote to elect the Constituent Assembly of the
constituent national was not so subject tothe regime as the reader and the electoral
crime. He was a little bitexempt from that. The proof is that

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new forces, such as the MedicalDemocratic Alliance, achieved a third of the
constituent, another third of the right- wing and other sectors of the liberal
center and just what was organized therewas direct popular consultation and a certain direct
democracy to be able to choose thatconstituent and was very balanced. I think,

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although it is true that the abstentionwas very large, that is,
more than a normal congressional election,I think it did not reach sixty percent
of the abstention. I still donot remember very well the representativeness and legitimacy
is Assembly. No one doubted itAnd the most disconcerting thing, in the
good sense of the word, isthat there was an almost perfecational balance between

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the three basic sectors of politics,the center, the right and the left.
I do not feel that at thatmoment there was a representation of what
was then consolidated in Colombia, ofthe ultra- extreme Uribist right, because
it did not exist. It's just not true. The conservatives were
somehow led by a person who hadwhat he himself called a different democratic talent,

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which wasÁlvaro Gómez, who,despite being a right- wing man,
had important democratic floors and Horacio Serpaand Antonio Navarro. One day,
when he took the process forward,I received a call, because I was
very surprised by DrÁlvaro Gómez Hurtadoto propose that I be one of the

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liberals on the National Salvation Movement list, which he wanted to submit to the
country' s consideration and, asit seemed to me a wonderful opportunity,
as much dream as there can befor a citizen and for a lawyer.
In addition, I participated in thedrafting of your country' s Constitution and,

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of course, I told you Iwas going to think about it,
but I didn' t have tothink much about it. I gladly accepted
and was part of the liberal groupthat belonged to that national salvation list.
There were three Liberals, Carlos Llerasde la Fuente, Alberto Saramea and I,
in a group of eleven constituents forthe national salvation movement. I did

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something I had never done in mylife and then I didn' t do
it again. That it' scampaign. I had never campaigned politically for
anything, but in this case ithad to be done. And then they
told us where the country was worthgoing So I was in Putumayo, I
was in Medellin and I was inCali, I was on the coast,
I was in different places in theinterior of the country making speeches things that

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I, because the truth, Ihad never done either, maybe at any
time in the public service, butspeeches for the purposes of getting voters,
because that had not touched me.And it was a wonderful experience, very
interesting and the thing turned out well. And because we entered the Constituent Assembly

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and it was an experience of allthe experiences that I have had in my
life, the most wonderful when theNational Constituent Assembly of a ninety- one
is installed and during that five-month period a very important fact happens in
the history of Colombia, and isthat the presidency of the Constituent was a

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conservativeÁlvaro Gómez, a leader HoracioZerpa and a member who came from the
guerrillas, like Antonio Navarro, andthere was a great understanding. That is
to say, that was a greatopportunity to show the country that we were
going to move forward on the pathof greater agreement, greater convergence, greater

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understanding, than to start working interms of economic development, social development,
to overcome violence, to overcome drugtrafficking. He helped a lot that the
decree that called the Assembly, whichwas declared constitutional by the Supreme Court,
established a national constituency with open lists, and that allowed practically different sectors that

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had not previously participated in political lifeto arrive in the Assembly, particularly the
indigenous sector, new scenarios, suchas, for example, my case,
which was fundamentally a university professor andobviously the parties had been divided within.

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Then they arrived, but with manydifferent sectors and that made no one have
a majority in the Assembly. Thatis why there was a need to establish
the tripartite presidency, which helped agreat deal to produce the final result,

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because, since no one could imposetheir majority, consensus had to be built,
we had to agree with those wenever thought we would agree with.
I was left in one, inthe first committee, which was in charge
of neither more nor less than thewhole dogmatic part of the Constitution, the
preamble, the principles, the Billof Rights, the Charter of Duties,

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the protection mechanisms. And within thatfirst commission, in the third subcommission,
which was responsible for the elaboration ofthe projects relating to the instruments of protection
of rights and my fellow subcommissioners werethe one who came to be the guerrilla
chief of the EPL in an AvanteOqueño and welcomed to be the rector of

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the Universidad Libre de Pereira. AndI, at first we said and how
we' re going to agree ifthe truth is totally different worlds. Well,
we started to build some formulas ofagreement that then, in addition,
all that was moved, because throughoutthe Constitution the same thing happened in the
different subcommittees and in the different committeesit was working, was prevailing the dialogue,

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the search for formulas to convince andaccept to be convinced, to express
the opinions and to hear them fromothers. I had never been in a
place where he would flee so attentivelyand talk so vehemently, with so much
dedication. The lessons I learned inthe constituent were gigantic. Giants. It

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is remembered that there were said tohave been two major movements at the closed
list level, but, for example, liberalism employment, what the expression López
Mickelsen called the wasp operation, thatthere was a number of regional lists of
the Liberal Party. For example,the Liberal Party came to have twenty-
four constituents, the Democratic Alliance hadnineteen, the National Salvation Movement eleven.
The Conservative Party, represented by noless than a former President of the Republic

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of President Pastrana, drew five constituents. That is, let' s say
something similar to what happened in Chileat this time that the traditional parties collapsed
because liberalism arrived. Let' ssay fragmented Alfonso Palacio Rudas, who was
a mayor of Bogotá, said no. We arrived like castaways on the island
of the constituent, caught by atree that saved us. But the Liberal

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Party, with its great majorities,never came to impose decisions, nor the
Conservative Party, much less, becausethe national salvation movement, somehow, was
a different movement, created by Dr. Gómez and for the consideration, besides
that he had to face a movementrecently reinserted into civilian life. What the
19th was like, somehow the effortand historic struggles that the excluded and marginalized

(28:07):
peoples made. Of course, itis also the struggle of people who decided
to take up arms in a momentand then said good. Let' s
stop the weapons to take another path, as was eMe nineteen. True and

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all these people, that many havebeen killed others we are still fighting because
this country is a better place forwonderful people, people who are no longer
there. I mention, for example, Alfonso Palacio Rudas. I mention,
for example, Raimundo Emilian and Roman, who gave absolutely wonderful chairs in the

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pheno of the constituent, so thatit is a beautiful experience and a constitution
of repeat born from the conception ofthe institutions sometimes instantaneous of the moment that
live or always with the caveat thatmost of the Colombian institutions have been making
practically the same photo of an eliteof notable clear and white men, members

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of a governing elite that encompasses avery narrow spectrum between the center right and
the most conservative right. And thatportrait looks like what Colombians think is politics
in Colombia. But in no waydoes it resemble the many voices that shape
political ideas in Colombia. What happensis that this has not been a very

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likely country to let breathe most ideasor most voices. That is why it
is as prodigious to look back andsee the unusual configuration of an Assembly as
the one given us by the Constitutionof the ninety- first century. What
that Constituent Assembly was like, whatmade it so different from what we were
or are used to seeing for threeyears. I have no memory of the

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National Constituent Assembly, but I havestudied it a lot, because many times,
when one is going to make anargument of constitutionality, I think it
is very important. Or it isconvincing even because it is poetic to remind
the constitutional judge who was told inthe National Constituent Assembly about that article.
If you' re really interpreting yourselfas the National Constituent Assembly wanted, then

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I think one thing that impressed theNational Constituent Assembly and a nine old videos.
I was just looking at an oldone of that. For another thing,
and that' s it, men, there were four women who were
constituents. It was a social pactwhich, of course, had a pluralist
character, which was a renewal ofsociety, of social expression in the legal

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order. But I, as awoman, seeing that, thought that he
felt little reproof, sentient and alsothe wear and tear of certain political figures,
a speech that was cast by CaesarGaviria, powerful, convincing pluralist,
for who is Caesar Gaviria today.I think that and then it comes out

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carnalo, so you think you've made it caralo for really feeding that
Constitution to which he was a part. I think that, because something has
done and then it comes out thatit is no longer and I think that
it is also like a photo ofa Colombia that was a project. I
don' t know what happened tothat project. Well, I think it
was a very happy coincidence of manyfactors within the tragedy. How it happens

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in this country, in a countryas violent as this, there comes a
time when it seems to be deeplytouched and consensus is being sought. How
can it happen now and forgiveness againfor the reference to two thousand twenty-
one, but I think there aremany great similarities. Thirty years ago,
no one gave five seats for thepossibility of sitting at a table and agreeing

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with the person who thinks completely different, one who even attacked one and drew
a consensus. And I always putthe case of Antonio Navarro andÁlvar Gómez
Soltón. Antenio was born in thehead of a movement recently reincorporated into civilian
life. That move had been hijacked.Álvaro Gómez Soltaba, not a day
fifteen, thirty years ago, notnine months ago, nine months ago.

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They had kidnapped him and sat downin a process of agreement. They made
the consensus at the level of theConstituent Assembly, more important because many of
the most progressive votes of the ConstituentAssembly were for a coalition between the National
Salvation Movement, the Democratic Alliance ofNineteen Months and all of us in the

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alternative sectors, plus all the progressivesof the Liberal Party and there was Maria
Teresa Garcés, Orlando FalsÁlvaro Echeverri, who came from the academies. But,

(33:07):
moreover, it is very interesting becauselater in Congress there was nothing less
than the founder of the University ofthe Andes on the eMe list, Dr.
Mario La Cerda, who was anOrthodox conservative, but agreed to go
on the 19th eMe list for Congress. Then there was a very important mental

(33:30):
opening, which I think is whatwe are now lacking in its dynamics.
Political forces behaved with great responsibility,because if they failed to reach agreements,
what would be frustrated was the possibilityof a new Assembly. No one could
afford to vote everything against, becausethat would lead to the non- fulfilment

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of the citizens' mandate of December9, nine hundred and nine then,
that commitment forced reconciliations, approximations,the Constitution to be a framework for the
development of political life in the future. Immediately following, unfortunately, the Constituent

(34:22):
National Assembly ended and new elections werecalled. I say that because I was
elected senator on that ninetieth year call. He was elected senator and we arrived
in Congress and, unfortunately, politicswas reimposed. That vision, that criterion

(34:44):
of understanding, was not extended,and Congress initiated initiatives against reform of the
Constitution of the 1990s. At thesame time, it should be recalled that
even the sectors of the judiciary requestedor did not request, ordered the revocation

(35:08):
of the pardon granted to the 19theMe after it had contributed to the formation
and structuring of a new Constitution,called for the revocation of the recall and
the imprisonment of the members of the19th EM, that is, the contrary
of the will that had emerged fromunderstanding to strengthen democracy among the different sectors

(35:32):
that, therefore, had not beenunderstood throughout history and Congress particularly and politics,
let us say, revived again.I believe that has been a major
brake on the development of the Constitution. We had the constituent. We have

(35:54):
the Constitution, because we can neverrepeat the experience of an Assembly that seeks
that, naturally, consensus, thatseeks to be a true representative of the
country, because it seems that wewill never have a single collegial body that
resembles that constituent National Assembly that for150 days gave us the idea that things
could be different in this country inwhich we so easily identify them with the

(36:17):
vices of a few. The ConstituentAssembly was an unlikely consensus, but above
all, it is unrepeatable. TodayI believe that we cannot say that the
backbone of the political context of thisperiod is a pact, to reach agreements

(36:40):
easily. On the contrary, whata capt is that there is a moment
of great attention. I don't use polarization, there' s a
lot of struggle on the political scene, on the social scene, and then
the question is the next city.The convening of a Constituent Assembly today would

(37:06):
achieve levels of agreement such as thoseof the 1990s and the 1990s, because
not always a constituent process implies anew Constitution can also represent a moment of
historical involution. Of course ours wasa citizen initiative that when it came to
implementing it in a political party,because we did not have the conditions to

(37:30):
achieve more representativeness. And really,the success was that the whole of IL
society would appropriate this and that forthe first time a public corporation would enter,
as was the constituent country that hadbeen excluded for one hundred and five
years by the Constitution of one thousandeight hundred and eighty- six. And
in that sense, I believe thatthe political objectives were first ambitious in the

(37:52):
sense that we would make a newConstitution, and that was achieved, that
it would have a survival as apolitical party, the student movement. That
was clear that this was not goingto happen first, because, as in
everything because some of us were goingone way, others were going the other
way. But the objective was achievedand I believe that within the constituent body
a large part of the reform objectiveswere achieved. The only thing that failed,

(38:17):
indisputably, was the transformation of thepolitical customs of Colombia that, as
I have already said and that Itold Chileans a lot, one thing is
the articles of a constitution. Anotherthing is the daily practice of political culture,
where the way to do politics.It was imposed the next day again
when the constituent finished, and that' s what' s still a great

(38:37):
pendent subject. The frozen promise isa sound capital production for the capital public
communication system. Today with the voicesof ever Bustamante of García Zafra, García,

(39:07):
Sandra Borda Guzmán, Ana Bejarano,Ricar, cancioque Natalia or Juan Carlos
Morales, Ribeira, Investigación, interviewsby Viviana Bello and Pablo Gómberz. The
interviews were coordinated by Jorge Martínez andFernanda Rojas and conducted by Christian Hernández,

(39:29):
María Alejandra Cuestas in the production,Isian González in the edition, narration by
María Alejandra Cuestas and Santiago Rivas.Our image is the work of Laura Colstein
Redes and assistance of production and realizationthanks to the digital team led by Jaime
Barbosa and made up of Camila Velandia, Felipe Laverde, Nicolás Peña, Nicolás

(39:51):
Rodríguez, Sebastián Figueroa, Stephan andJaramillo, Laura Pava, Mavi Torres and
Manuel Borna, Dirección General de Santiagorivas Es. It was made for television
in alliance with the viewer, whomwe released some audios for some episodes.
So thank you if you liked thisepisode. Please share it capital public communication system