IVAN HANNEL - UAP ATTORNEY at LAW

Tonight's Guest in Ivan Hannel, a licensed attorney at law in three states, whom represents Lue Elizondo. Ivan has a specific interest in UAP, but he's more interested in protecting whistleblowers who have something to say about the secrecy of UFOs or UAPs. 
About Director Darcy Weir
Diving into the chaos of UFOTwitter like a fearless spelunker, Darcy Weir is a documentary filmmaker who over the past two decades has chosen to explore some of the most intriguing topics of discussion today, including UFOs, Cryptids, and even Bitcoin. He has completed over 15 feature-length documentaries on these topics, all of which are available on Amazon Prime and Apple. His goal is to make the world of UFOs more accessible to the general public by shedding light on the subject in new ways. Enjoy fresh conversations with him on Twitter. Join the Twitter Space to share in the conversation.
Links
Amazon: https://amzn.to/3wHv7JJ
Apple TV: https://apple.co/3TlQQ2Q
https://x.com/occultjourneys
  / instagram: darcyweirfilms  
   /twitter and youtube: @occultjourneys  
About Andy Marcial
Andy is a researcher of 20+ yrs who was forced down the rabbit hole after very personal and life changing close encounters which started in Puerto Rico. His entire life, all he has done, is try to understand what he saw and why he went through what he went through. It changed him and showed him that there is an entire reality out there beyond human comprehension. It also drove him to reach out to others like himself because of how psychologically damaging this can be. He also recently leaked three Department of Homeland Security videos to the public, which were controversial, but officially recognized as UAP by Customs and Border Patrol in August of 2023. Andy doesn't do what he does for any other reason than to open the minds of anyone willing to listen and to show those affected by this phenomenon that they are not alone.
Links
  / instagram and twitter: @ny_uap_discussion  
   / youtube: @ufocompilation

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Two hundred years ago, two thousand years ago.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
This isn't going to work.

Speaker 3 (00:12):
She's picking up a massive object in this video.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Ships that might be closed.

Speaker 4 (00:17):
I can sense them in my vicinity, So I guess
I'm just very tuned in.

Speaker 3 (00:22):
Walkin head, honcho, walks out ear reveal. Yeah, the crowd goes, oh,
my God. Was to protect the secrets from the Air
Force that were not out there in public. So welcome

(00:47):
back to last night on UFO Twitter. Hello everybody, we're
just we're dialing in tonight with some new interesting guest
Ivan Handled And this is somebody who I've met recently.

(01:07):
I got to know quite a bit. We had a
long intro conversation and he's like a regular guy. You know,
he's a regular dude, and he practices law.

Speaker 5 (01:22):
He just so happens to have gotten into the UFO
topic UAP topic recently. And he's one of these folks
that's volunteered his time to defend whistleblowers or credible witnesses
to UAP stuff, you know, encounters or information.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
That's bound to eventually we hit the public. And quite honestly,
one of his clients is Louel Zondo, who many people
know and I think what he's doing is great work,

(02:09):
and I think there's a lot to be learned from
his perspective on this whole thing, because, as a lot
of people might note, you know, I'm somebody who's been
around checking this whole phenomenon, this whole history, the subculture
that you could say this is a part of for

(02:30):
a long time. And I'm probably not a normal guy.
I mean, let's be honest, but when I talk to
somebody like I, then he's new to all this and
he's not used to the amount of like toxicity and
crazy behavior that comes out of this community by not

(02:52):
only people that are prominent in the community, because let's
be honest, there's some of the worst actors because they
have somewhat of a stake in all of this, but
you know, just their followers and people that are really
invested in this topic personally that want to see the

(03:13):
truth of this come out. It ends up all that
energy and emotion ends up just being kind of like
translated to a tax online and YadA yadatta. And so
I wanted to bring them on. I just wanted people
to have a general chat with didn't get to know him,
but as we usually do to start off our show,

(03:35):
I want to have Pastor Dale give us something insightful
and positive to think about. So with that, let me
bring in Twitter. Can you do a little mic check
there from my brother I'm here, awesome tailver Man. I
want to give us something.

Speaker 4 (03:54):
No right, I'm ready. The best is yet to come.
That's my little catchphrase for today. And so if you
don't remember anything else, remember that the best is yet
to come. It's hard to believe that we're less than
a month away from New Year's. I mean, it's like
twenty one days, so Chris, twenty eight days until we

(04:16):
get to New Year's. I mean, I just can't believe
how fast time is gone. For many, a new year
means a fresh start. For many, a new year means
a tabula rossa clean slate. Tabula rosso was made famous
by the philosopher John Lotte, but the concept goes all
the way back to Aristotle. In his Treatise on the Soul,

(04:39):
Aristotle writes that every person is born as an unscripted tablet.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
Basically, they have.

Speaker 4 (04:46):
A clean slate. You know, even though we can't erase
the pass, we can leave it behind and start over.
I said, even though we can't erase the pass. We
can leave it behind and start over. You know, what's
done is done. But this is what we can do.
We can learn from the past, we can embrace the present,

(05:07):
and we can plan for the future. The best is
yet to come. The best is yet to come. Concerning disclosure, now,
I can't promise you that twenty twenty five will be
the year of disclosure, but I can promise you that
we will continue to get closer and closer to disclosure.

(05:27):
The best is yet to come. We have never been
closer to disclosure. Let me just think about how much
Congress is involved today, all the different hearings that are
going on. I mean we had three, two in less
than a week, and so that was pretty exciting as well.

(05:48):
The media is involved. Really, for the first time in
a long long time, high ranking military personnel like Colonel
Nell have come out and said there is zero doubt,
how much doubt.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
Zero doubt.

Speaker 4 (06:02):
For the first time in a long time, the public
is taking notice the best is yet to come. Let
me say that one last time, the best is yet
to come.

Speaker 3 (06:15):
I'd say that's a great message. You know, we've come
pretty far in terms of this topic. Becoming mainstream, becoming
something that's being reported more and more and taken seriously.
So that's a positive message, you know. I think there's
more to come, and there's probably going to be better,

(06:37):
I hope. But let's turn it over to you Ivan.
Why don't you just kind of introduce yourself. I tried
to do my best there. You know, it's not as scripted.
We're just a couple guys having a chat here, so.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, no worries. Yeah, So just you know, at the
outset of everything, I just always make a distinction in
between you know, lou as his own perspectives on all
these things. I don't represent him in terms of his
opinion on you know, anything that I express is at
He's just just me, you know, but happy to engage,
you know, questions as they come through. And I love

(07:16):
the setlement of you know that that you know, the
past is the past and and we have to look
forward to the future and learn from the past, make
good plans, you know, not let the perfect be the
enemy of the good. I think this was a good year,
you know, And I mean, you know, it's kind of
it's funny because you also feel a little bit like, Okay, well,

(07:37):
what's next, right, there's a it's almost like a series
of dopamine hits. And certainly for me, you know, coming
off after the November thirteenth herey, that was exhausting. I mean,
I I just I I you know, the weeks prior,
we're busy. I'm actually you know, I'm a full time
practicing lawyer general counsel for a company, so you know,

(07:58):
I have the corporate gig. Then you know, I also
have other work that I do as a lawyer, so
you know, there's a lot of you know, I'm busy,
and it took a lot out of me to to
to sort of free myself and get the time to
even go to the hearing. And uh, you know, we're
piled up and I've been paying for it. I mean that,

(08:19):
you know, and law is a hard thing people don't understand.
I mean, all Thanksgiving I was working on pleadings and
responses because things came in on the Friday before Thanksgiving.

Speaker 3 (08:28):
Pleadings. Pleadings, not pleading, not pladings, right.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Not pladians, No, no, no, just you know documents that
you have to answer. They're called pleadings anyway, And you know,
I had to work all through Thanksgiving. I mean not
my Thanksgiving was spent actually working, although I did get
a break to uh to make a good turkey. But
you know, so anyway, I mean just in the general
sentiment of things, I think there's a lot to be
thankful for over the last year.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
I think, you know, it's never it's never enough. I
get it.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
But you also have to count your blessings, make reasonable
plans for the future, and uh, you don't let the perfect,
you know, the expectations we all have become the enemy
of the good. So I love it. I like the
idea of it. And so as far as me, you know, yes,
you know, I do represent Loup in some things. And

(09:15):
you know I, I, you know, care about him. He's
a he's a good person, a very good person. He's
always been, you know, very direct with me. Really enjoy
working with him. I consider him a friend and his family,
you know, their friends, so you know, and I and
and and in general, I you know, obviously support disclosure.

(09:35):
I don't know quite what that means, you know, at
any one given point there so he seems to be
a moving target and everybody has their own sort of
definition of it. But but you know, collectively, I think
we have a sense of what it means. And you know,
I support all efforts, whether by LEEU or by others,
to to move the ball forward. And you know, I'm gratified.

(09:56):
I guess the last thing I'll say before be quiet
for a second. But you know, you see all the
other people who come out and made statements, you know,
gone on podcasts, who have who come out there and said,
you know, there's something going on that we can't explain,
and have taken a real, uh personal risk in an
area that is still very strange. Too.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
I would say.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
Taboo, right, yeah, well right, taboo or or just just
other you know, literally otherworldly to to so many people,
including most of our Congress. Frankly, I mean they just
don't know, you know. That's one of the things I
keep going back to after the hearing. But but anyway,
you know, I think that we should be thankful for
what's been accomplished, what's happened. Uh doesn't mean that the

(10:37):
you know, fight is over or or you know, the
battles will continue, but I think it's a lot of
progress has been made and it's been an interesting year. Yeah,
and you know, and I mean you see the world today.
It's just such a strange one. I mean, you know,
South Korea suspending democracy or martial law for a second,
the CEO of United Healthcare getting shot. I mean, you know,

(10:58):
oh my god, it seems like she feels like we're
in a really weird time. And then, of course I
don't know if it was today or if I did
it was there yesterday, but apparently there was an alien invasion.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
I missed it.

Speaker 3 (11:09):
We all did, thank god.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
So I missed that invasion, although arguably people say that
it's already be gone. Whatever. You know, I'm just, you know,
like you said, I'm more of a newcomer to this space, right,
And I was.

Speaker 3 (11:24):
Going to ask, I mean, when do you think recently
you kind of got into this? Was it in past two,
past three four years?

Speaker 2 (11:33):
You know, it's funny I was talking. It's really strange.
I can't actually remember, like any one pivotal moment. I
remember I was talking to somebody, and I don't even
remember the person I was talking to. You, that's how
busy I get. Whoever it was, they were saying that
they were talking to me about this years ago, so
it might be longer than I remember, Like presently, I

(11:55):
would say it would be in the last five years.
I guess my interest was heightened, but it might have
been be for that because you know, I certainly remember
the twenty seventeen article. Yeah, if you told me it
was twenty nineteen, I would say, okay, you know, that
would be just as close in my mind. So it's
got to be at least seven eight years or maybe
even a decade that I've had interest in it. But
it doesn't mean, you know, I wasn't playing any kind

(12:15):
of specific role. I was just doing what most people do,
watching them, watching mostly podcasts, reading what I could, you know,
just keeping up sort of organically. I really wasn't on
x much, so it was our Twitter, you know, whatever
it was called. So yeah, but.

Speaker 3 (12:30):
Post twenty seventeen, your interest probably got accelerated because of
the you know, New York Times article and a bunch
of stuff becoming more mainstream. So you're a regular lawyer,
You're handling million dollar defense cases and all kinds of
big lawsuits. You're in California, you get tapped by another

(12:55):
sort of group, let's say, to help out people like
lou In representing UAP whistleblowers and stuff. Like that. And
I think part of the impetus of you coming out
to Capitol Hill, Washington, DC for the twenty thirteen, sorry,
the November thirteenth hearings, was to support Lou. He kind

(13:19):
of asked you to come out, am I right.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yes, and I was actually there. Just to be clear,
I was there once before in Congress itself in July
of the summer of this last summer. But yes, for
obviously I was there at the thirteenth. That's true.

Speaker 3 (13:34):
Cool, so lose like you're a regular guy. I know
this night might might not be your regular shtick, but
come with me. It'd be cool if you come and
we're part of this moment in history. You go out
there and we don't have to like get into crazy
specifics or anything like that. But you know, just to

(13:55):
set the record straight, kind of leading up to this moment,
you started getting a a flack personally from let's say,
some prominent people that are pushing disclosure so to speak,
in the community. Is that does that make sense or.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yeah? I mean, you know, I think I think that's
definitely the case. I was asked to join Lou for
whatever reasons he may have had to.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
Have me be there helped him a bit.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
You know, he wrote a speech, we me and some
other people helped to work to revise it a bit
and just you know, but he did a great job
and that was mostly his product. And I'm glad for
the speech that he you know, this short short intro
to the to the hearing, to the hearing. But yeah,
you know, I I think it's just far for the course.
I think there's a lot of people who want to

(14:47):
be sort of the either UFO lawyer or sort of
the messiah of this whole thing. Sure, you know that's
not my that's not my interest. I mean, I I
really you know, the topic itself is interesting and from
my perspective, you know, my role in it is purely
from a civic space perspective. Although I you know, like
everybody else, I'm you know, fascinated to to you know,

(15:10):
contemplate what it would mean if you know, there's you know,
because I have I'm not an experiencer. I've never seen
a UFO, never never felt I was talking to anything,
you know, nothing, you know, just just as whatever the
UFOs or UAP are attracted to or nhi there it's
you know, I have the uh antimatter to it. So
I I never see these things. And it's funny because

(15:30):
people who you know, I've I've I've met who prior
to meet, you know, prior to getting involved in this,
you know, had no experiences. They saw some things and
you know, they were freaked out, and I'm like, wow,
you guys have all these exciting things happening, and I just,
you know, and I'm just wandering that, you know, just
doing the normal thing. So so I didn't have those

(15:50):
kind of experiences. But uh, but yeah, you know, I
think there are people who have ambitions to you know,
I don't I don't know what they think. Maybe they
think they're going to, you know, lead us to some
sort of salvation. But my interest is very prosaic. I
think that this is an interest, this is an area
that needs investigation, you know, by the government in a

(16:13):
meaningful way, not not what's been done in the past.
Essentially to preserve our democracy. You know, I really think
that democracy is incredibly important. In order for that to happen,
you need a strong and an effective legislature, and you
can't have an executive, which unfortunately, you know, for many decades,
seems to have lost over you know, not been not

(16:37):
not had the best oversight by the Congress, and felt
essentially imperial, and you know, that's a big concern. And
and to me, you know, our democracy, even though it's
very imperfect, I understand Congress isn't perfect. You know. If
you say a positive thing about Democrats and you're you know,
you're the terrible person. If you say a positive thing
about Republicans, you're a terrible person. But you know, although

(17:01):
I do have my own politics, and they do kind
of range to both sides, you know, so I find
myself sort of in the center when you add up
all the vectors, I think I'm more of a centrist
about things. But you know, But but anyway, the point
is is that for me, this is about you know,
the civics of it and making sure that our Congress
has the initiative or has received, you know, what it

(17:23):
needs in order to do its job. But the problem
is we can't do its job for that, you know,
we can't. We can provide information, we can plead, we
can lobby, we can persuade, we can do all these things,
but ultimately, once we've done that part, we have to
you know, and trust you trust that our elected officials

(17:44):
will do their parts. And and you know, I think
we've we've come a long way in that regard.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
Not not enough, I get it, but you know.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
I'm I'm pleased with that. So from my perspective, you know,
I'm really in this for the civics of it all
more than anything else. I don't care if I'm loved
or hated by you know, one group or another, one
person or another makes a difference to me. You know,
I have a great life I have. I don't need
to get a job as UFO at whatever. You know.

(18:12):
I don't need a job in the UFO world. I
have too many jobs right now, So there's no inducement
in that way. I'm not looking at profit from this
whole thing, obviously, I haven't. Certainly probably lost some money
for sure, certainly tons of time. If I build for it,
i'd you know, ye better off.

Speaker 3 (18:29):
To set the record straight for the audience here. You're
doing whenever you're doing this, UH, legal work for lou
or or somebody else that's interested in getting help regarding
UAP legislature, for example. UH, in the past, apparently you
were helping this prominent figure with possibly drafting some legal

(18:52):
paperwork and stuff for proposals for legislature regarding UAP. You're
doing this all pro bono.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
Right, I don't, you know, for all for I'll just
be very clear, I've not made a dollar, not one dollar.
Oh shoot, I think Okay, hopefully we can't like scream
which is blank. Sorry about that.

Speaker 3 (19:14):
Good you can hear you.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
Okay, good. No, I've not made a dollar on this
thing at all. I don't seek to profit from it.
I mean, first of all, for me, again, it's about democracy.
I'm not trying to profit off of preserving or increasing
our democracy.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
That would be insane to me. So I have no
interest in that.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
Like I said, I don't really you know, I'm fine financially.
I don't need I mean, you know, I guess we
could all use more money, but it really doesn't, you know,
help make me much happier on a day to day basis.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
You know, what makes me happy is having time for friends.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
And family, you know, animals, uh, you know, reading things
of interest, be you know, you know, consuming good information,
having time to relax, and you know, just all those
sorts of things.

Speaker 3 (19:56):
Making a positive change.

Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah, I mean i'd like to. It's hard. I mean,
it is frustrating, you know at times, that's for sure.
But yeah, I think there's all you know, people were
I have no idea. I could go into all the details,
but at this point, really I'm I'm more forward looking,
you know, just in the same way that we started
out the show with kind of this idea of like
we like go to the past and we go to
the future. You know, that's that's kind of where my

(20:20):
mindset is because you know, despite all the frustrations and
despite and and trust me, there's been some i mean
even at the hearings. Boy, it was that a you know,
that was a yeah, oh it was wild. I mean,
you know, but I have some good news for those
who want to hear. Yeah, I've good news about it,
which is that I mean, and and again you know,

(20:41):
I don't want to pretend I'm you know, that everything's
perfect and so on. But but anyway, what I was
going to say is just in the you know, theme
of the opening that you had was you know, let's
be positive, let's let go of the past, let's move
towards the future. And and I think that's right. I
think that's a good, good approach because I'm excited about

(21:01):
this future. I don't know what it means. I don't
know where it leads, I don't know how much of
a role I will play in it.

Speaker 1 (21:08):
But nevertheless, I was more heartened.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
Having left, you know, finally got it, finally gotten out
of that Congress, you know. And I don't say that
in a derogatory way. I mean, it's just literally a
warren of hallways and rooms and so on. But but
after leaving that night with lou you know, and and
just feeling incredibly tired, frankly, but also you know, you

(21:35):
got to see democracy in action, and uh, it was
an interesting you know for a lawyer. You know, I
had not represented somebody directly in Congress before, and there
wasn't a ton for me to do. It wasn't like
a hearing where he's under you know, where everybody was
under subpoena, and I had to really you know, object
or anything or you know, do what I advised my client,
you know, to on specific questions. It wasn't like that.

(21:57):
But but I left feeling pretty good about democracy. And
I know that a lot of people here, you know,
probably don't like the members on that here committee, you know,
especially you know, some people.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
Don't like Democrats, some people don't like.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
Republicans, they don't like the questions that were asked. You know,
there's just there's always a critic, you know whatever. But
my observation was that the process was working, and what
we had was, you know, fifteen twenty people. I forget
the exact number, you know, are who are there at
one time because they were kind of coming and going.
But but we had some legislators there who asked serious

(22:34):
questions and we're interested in the topic. And I mean
if you went back ten twenty years ago and you
know how many legislators would have been you know, on
c Span or whatever talking about UFOs, I mean exactly,
I think zero, And I.

Speaker 3 (22:52):
Think we would completely yeah, politically.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
Right, you'd be escorted out. You'd be like, you know,
you considered a lunatic. So I think it was impressive.
And you know, even the questions that were asked were interesting.
I mean they weren't you know, perhaps perfect, but it's
a very interest. You know, the whole structure of the hearing,
the five minutes, the the you know, the brief time
that they had to elicit what they wanted, you know,
it it was a good experience, and overall I left

(23:20):
feeling that we can expect more. I don't know precisely
how or what, but it was a good feeling from
a lawyer, because you know, you go back a few
years obviously there was you know, we've had some really
crazy things happening, you know, in and outside of Congress
and to the Congress, right, and so you begin to wonder,
how is democracy doing? And there's so much criticism of

(23:41):
all the representatives and the senators and how terrible they are.
But my experience is very different. Uniformally, they were polite,
they were inviting, they were curious, so were their staffs.
I mean, they were good people. I was very very
happy to meet many of them, and you know, to
their credits, they're they're good people and they're trying to

(24:01):
do the best job they can. Whether I agree with
each of them on their political issues, you know, probably not.
But but but but nevertheless, I was, you know, proud
of that moment and whatever minor role I had and
helping to bring it about.

Speaker 3 (24:18):
Yeah, and like you know, we we just go lot.
We just barely touched the service of you know, what
might have been part of your emotional response that ended
up being kind of like a blast on Twitter, and
we don't we don't have to dive into that. I
just wanted to like give a bit of a setup

(24:38):
that there was some things happening proceding to that response
that people don't know about, and they want to attack
you and villainize you. And it's not about that. You're
a human being. You had an emotion emotional response. We're
all human beings. I know more of the nuanced information there.

(25:00):
I respect your response, and some people can just go
f themselves, you know, because they don't know the whole story,
and there's a lot of flack and a lot of
sort of personal vindictive stuff that was coming your way
for a guy who's volunteering his time to represent this

(25:21):
subject and help out a person who's kind of a
leader in the community right now, lou So, I just
I just want to sort of but we we don't
have to go down that. I mean, people can ask
some questions later, but I will say, you know, one
of the great guys you know I'm friends with here online, Carlos,

(25:42):
he's in the space. He brought up the fact that
you know, last space we had, you know, you had
said we should have more polling of this information within Congress?
Why has this not been pulled to really measure this
issue properly in a political science way, so we understand,

(26:07):
you know, should we really be spending taxpayer money and
so on and so forth on this issue. I like that,
and I think you're you're kind of pushing for that.
Can you speak to it a bit?

Speaker 2 (26:19):
Sure? So on the first thing, yeah, my comments, it
was an emotional response, but it was very directed at
some people. Then they know who they are, and most
people could guess. And I have the receipts for all
of that. But I've decided only out of essentially, you know,
regard for some of the people who are still a
part of those organizations, not to not to move forward

(26:43):
and just to you know, just to let it rest.
But make no mistake, you know, as an attorney, I intend,
you know, I come with you know, when I'm representing somebody,
everything is checked, verified, and I have receipts, as they say, right, So,
just just to let everybody know that was not just
about pure emotion that although it was emotionalized suppose, but

(27:06):
it was a very direct message and and that's it,
you know, So I'll leave it at that, and and
and you know, but believe me, if if if anybody
wanted to oppose me and some of those other people,
they would the result would be disfavorable to them.

Speaker 3 (27:21):
All right, right when it when it came to discovery
of what that all meant, Yeah, okay, I got it.

Speaker 2 (27:26):
Just just advice it to say, I could give under
oath right the full detail and it would not be
a good look for anybody else. And I'll just leave
it at that. But it does it does bring up
a point that I do want to eventually get back to,
which is taller that you know, the top and we
don't have to write now, but you talk about sort

(27:48):
of the I would call it the tolerance. Well I'll
get into into that later. But but but I'm sorry
your your last part wasn't you segued into the polling?
So one of the things I went, did you know,
and I and I'm not probably saying the polling is
something that's going to persuade all members of Congress, you know, definitively,

(28:10):
or or even members of their staff. But one of
the things that I was very surprised about, you know,
and I don't remember if I just sort of asked
it off the cuff, but I began asking it to
you know, different members as well as their staffs obviously,
but the members as well.

Speaker 3 (28:25):
Did you meet with was it Mike Rope or you
know some of the guys, like did you meet with
Eric Barlson and stuff? I remember you were at the
uap DF meeting after at five thirtieth.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
Right, Mike Browns was there?

Speaker 3 (28:42):
My ground?

Speaker 2 (28:42):
That's it? Sorry, yeah, Mike Rope. I was like, who
is it that guy?

Speaker 3 (28:46):
I don't know news senator right.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
Right, right? No, I did meet with Mike Grounds and
you know others, And I don't want to give all
their names because you know, who knows what they want.
But I mean he was clearly at the at that event,
and he was a gentleman, and you know, he was
uh insightful, and you know, I would just say he
was great, But but what I would say beyond that
is well, and I mean just to recognize the fact

(29:10):
that he took some personal risks to, you know, to
go to an event that's about UFOs. I mean, he's, ah,
you know, very senatorial sort of person. He's obviously a senator,
but he's he has a certain gravitas, and you know,
sort of he's very dignified and and and and and
you know, I would say probably conservative and fairly cautious.

(29:30):
But he's really thrown his head into this issue. And
so and that's not and it's just not him. He's
not the only senator obviously, and I'm not talking about
just Senator uh uh Jilibrand, I'm saying others. So I
will just say that, you know, this issue is one
where they're all paying attention. And yeah, you know, they

(29:51):
were great. So as far as polling goes, I guess
going back to that, and I'm sorry, I'm it's a
bit scattered because it's the end of the day, but
I do think that, you know, one of the indictments
you might make of the existing new AP organizations is that,
regardless of how much fundraising, they plea for the basic

(30:15):
the basic work. You know, if you have any lobbying group, right,
lobbying industry, because we're part you know, I have companies
that are part of lobbying industries. You know they have
lobbyists associated with them, right, Well, there's healthcare something else.
And you know, even though polling isn't just positive, usually
if you can say, hey, this resonates with a certain

(30:37):
sliver of your electric yeah, you know, and it can
sometimes be a very unusual maybe maybe it's one that
appeals to a group of people who you know, have
not heretofore been you know, participating in the election, right,
so so why not I mean, and and just to
say that that's not something that they you know, and
it needs to be fairly granular. You can't just say,

(30:58):
you know, you know, two out of ten adult men
across the United States are interested in UFOs. That's not
going to work. They need it more granular. Down to
the level of you know, in your district, you'll find that,
you know, this resonates with you know, these.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
Kinds of people.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
I think I think that's uh something that would be
at least helpful to getting the conversation, you know, to
to to getting the conversation. And now people object, Well,
you know, if you actually did the polling, you'd find
that very few adults are you know, have this as
a top you know five issue. But but I think
it's growing, and I think it would be you know,

(31:36):
you could do some comparisons and it would show that
it's actually probably just as popular among certain you know,
slivers of the population, as you know, as as as
many other issues. So I think it is a pop
you know, it's an issue that's increasing in popularity. It's
surprisingly of interest to people. I don't know if you
know how much it leads to voting or not, but

(31:56):
but I definitely think that pulling is something that can
be done and probably should be done to help at
least get in the door. It's just another data point
of hey, representative, you know, Senator so and so. You know,
you may not believe in this yourself, or you may
not think that there's a great you know, cause for
strategic surprise or something like that. But even if you

(32:19):
don't personally have an interest, and even if you don't
think this is you know, a tremendous threat to our
nation or or a benefit to the nation, you know,
you don't you're not interested in zero point energy or
whatever else you know, or antira. You're just not you're
not really motivated. Nevertheless, a pope might motivate you to
at least, you know, keep your ears open.

Speaker 3 (32:40):
Yeah, then it's becoming like a more politically gauged, you know,
democratic issue rather than just like okay, is this fringe
or niche this topic or does this really have mass appeal?
You know, and you can really drill down and deliver
that to the public right and to the into Congress members.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yeah, yeah, so I think that polling would help. I'm
not going to say it's the you know, the you know,
the one thing that's going to make a difference, but
that it hasn't been done so far.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
Despite all the podcasts and all.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
The organizations and all the you know, it's really like, wow,
you know, you're you're somebody uh needs to do. You know,
we got we got to ask ourselves who's been you know,
who's leading this, who's leading this charge, who's you know,
you can pick it out for outside of the house.
But if you don't have any polling data, that's pretty embarrassing.

Speaker 3 (33:38):
Yeah cool, I like that. So we've got a couple
of speakers here. I want to flip it over to hands,
so I can't see hands. If anybody's got a hand
up or one of my andy marcil do you have
questions or there are other people that want to ask
Evan a direct question?

Speaker 2 (33:58):
Do you already head hand up?

Speaker 3 (34:00):
Go for it too, uncle?

Speaker 6 (34:03):
Hey, guys, can everyone hear.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
Okay, I Evan, can you hear me?

Speaker 2 (34:06):
All right?

Speaker 3 (34:07):
Yep, we can hear.

Speaker 6 (34:09):
Hey, it's nice talking to you up here. Let me
go back to my notes because I don't want to
lose track.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
No problem, you can. Uh. People don't know this, but
I'm actually my mom is from Mexico, so you know,
I speak Spanish pretty decent and uh, you know, Jill
said this is actually but go ahead.

Speaker 3 (34:30):
Oh cool.

Speaker 6 (34:31):
Well I have now two comments. I have two comments
and then a question, but a little comment about me.
I speak a little bit of Spanish. My first word
was actually Spanish, it was aga.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
So okay, what hell?

Speaker 3 (34:42):
You must have been on a bath?

Speaker 6 (34:44):
Yeah I was thirsty, but yeah, my grandpa, my grandpa's
from Brazil some World War two. But anyways, my question is, oh,
my first my comment, thank you for all your work
man and representing Glue. I did not know your pro bono,
so that's freaking awesome. So I have a question. I
won't I won't make it super difficult because I know

(35:05):
you've had a long day stuff. But my question is,
so let me read it real quick. Okay, So my
question is I know you're kind of new to this
side of Twitter and stuff. But you as a lawyer,
so you know, I've only been on this side of
Twitter for about a year, and my question is, like,
with all the I won't use names or I won't
use examples, but with the NonStop harassment that you've witnessed,

(35:27):
that's definitely seems a bit organized. I've seen like discord
servers and stuff. I've personally tried like blocking them, tried
ignoring it, even I've tried combating it personally, and like, none.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
Of that stuff's worked.

Speaker 3 (35:41):
What would you, as a.

Speaker 6 (35:42):
Lawyer, recommend that we do. Because I've tried everything you
can think of as far as like, you know, nothing,
there's nothing really been criminal towards me, But what would
you recommend? And then second, secondly, through the discovery and
again I won't use names, but through this I come
across multiple criminals. Uh that are these certain individuals that

(36:05):
are very vocal about Loue Alzando. Basically I've done some
research look back and they have extensive, extensive criminal backgrounds.
You know, some as some is not that bad, but
some a is also uh child basically pedophilia. There's no
way to work work around it. So yeah, so yeah,

(36:26):
again I'm not going to use any names individuals, but
what would basically you recommend on what could we do?
Because you know, I'm a I'm a computer scientist, I'm
a cyberary analyst. Like I just want to see all
this from a scientific point of view. So that's kind
of long, but yeah, well we'll basically recommend.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
Okay, So I'm sorry. So your one question is, you know,
how do you deal with harassment and like personally how
you know I can answer my person my own personal perspective,
and again, of course, as the lawyers unfortunately alas have
to say, please, I'm not giving you legal advices.

Speaker 1 (37:00):
You're not like planing all that crap. You know, you'd
be surprised.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
But anyway, so one question is essentially, what would I
advise or sort of suggest about receiving harassments and and
and and and and you know, to the community as
a whole. And then your second question, or maybe your
first question was can you can you kind of iterate
that one more time?

Speaker 6 (37:22):
Yeah, well, it's not really a question about what I
don't know, I don't really worn this question, but what
I've just kind of noticed and it's kind of like
a huh, you know a harm moment, aha moment. I
like to say, where certain people that are extremely vocal
about Louelondo and sprout rumors, I look into their background,

(37:42):
and I'm a cybersecurity analyst, you know. I'm yeah, I'm
sure you've heard of of what that job entails. But
I'm pretty good at at at spoop around the internet.
And Okay, some of these people, as I've said, have
harmed children. So I'm just like, I'm just I'm just
thinking about, like, like, why are certain individuals like this
vocal about that when they should be focusing on, like,

(38:02):
you know, maybe themselves.

Speaker 3 (38:04):
So very odd.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, you know, I've heard so.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
First of all, broadly speaking, I think that you know,
when you're a public figure, when you're just out there
in the media, unfortunately, you know you're going to just
get or you know, you're on X or Twitter or
whatever you want to call it, You're always going to
get a bunch of critics, you know what I mean,
and people who are doing crazy stuff. I guess I

(38:33):
can only answer this, you know, I mean, if it
gets to the point where you really feel you're being
targeted for specific harassment or it's defamatory or something like that.
You should go consult the lawyer. You know, I have
to say that, Go consult the lawyer. Keep your receipts, Yeah,
keep your receipts. Go consult the lawyer. Sorry, I just
hear some noise outside of my house with the delivery
truck for you. Annoying, but he that okay, But so

(38:56):
that's the first thing. So so document as I certainly have,
but document what you know, you believe is the harassment,
and keep it and see where it leads. I don't
have much more for you on that as far as
you know my you know, I guess I would just
say this, my own personal point of view is a

(39:18):
lot of the people because I, you know, there's definitely
been a campaign against me behind the scenes too, you know,
to do really ridiculous things. And I heard people, you know,
you know, they say I'm part of the intelligence community,
which is I think both, you know. I kind of
laugh at it because it's like, oh, is that a
compliment or an insult because kind of both. They don't
seem to be that confident, So I'm not really sure
if that's a you know, are you are you saying

(39:41):
that I'm just in you know, I can't figure that out.

Speaker 3 (39:43):
I've been I'm Canadian and I've been accused of being
c I a multiple times, so or informant. Informant Darcy
is a Twitter headline. I've read it a couple of times.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
I'm okay, how stupid is that? Right? And fact? You
know what, though, I'm not against the intelligence community. I mean,
and it's not has nothing to do with Lou I
don't care about that. But you know, to me, I'm
just like, well, you do have to have an intelligence community.
You just hope that they're acting in a way that
you know, right well, you know, in accord with the
nation's best interest and with the world's best interest. I mean,

(40:19):
you know that's what you hope for. So you can't
there's no separate you know, they are us and we
are them. But they you know, obviously, organizations have institutional
dynamics that can lead them to run a foul of
sort of the founding principles. So and you can see
that with companies and you know, any kind of churches,
and you know, voice.

Speaker 3 (40:39):
Absolutely absolute power corrupts, Absolutely it does.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
And people get acculturated to certain bad behaviors and you know,
the whole thing, so.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
Right, I know people are paranoid of that. But then
with regards to what your advice would be to Teo.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
Red my my specific advice is document where you have.
But also, you know, and I don't know what's going
on with you or you know specifically or anybody else,
and the harassment may cross a point where it becomes
something legal, right, and at that point, consult an attorney.
But I would just say that as a whole, you know,
we all have to learn how to ignore things up

(41:17):
to a point and.

Speaker 3 (41:19):
Still they're hurting you and your family or something like that.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, and and and that
can happen, and it's it's terrible when it does. But
you know, as far as me goes, I mean, my
own and this is just my own personal way is
you know, I just don't really care. I don't. I
don't know how to explain that, but I don't care
if people like me and I don't, you know, because
frequently and I have a lot of lawyers who you know,

(41:45):
I make friends with the Posing Council as much as
I can. You know, I try to treat every really
everybody us as well as I can. But inevitably, you know,
the field of law is very conflicted, and you have
a lot of you know, ten and and it make it,
you know, whether you like it or not, there's going
to be people who just really dislike you, whether for

(42:06):
substantive reasons, for stylistic reasons, for essentially.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
Always see some kind of other motivations.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
Fears, strangest fears. But the thing about this community, you know,
the UFO community, which is weird, is how fearful they are,
or some of them are, about other people playing a
role at all, Like, you know, they want to monopolize
the role, monopolize the conversation. They're terribly afraid of opposing
points of view. I'm actually very happy to hear, you know,
when people say, hey, I don't like you know, what
you've said, or I don't like what Louis said. And

(42:36):
I've had good conversations with people, and you know, we've
had to agree to disagree on some things. But that's okay,
it's okay. We don't all have to see the same.
You know, I would rather have somebody and I was
thinking about this earlier today, you know, would you rather
have somebody, let's say they felt very differently than you
about something for whatever reason, you know, would you rather

(42:56):
have them, you know, suppress their truth and tell you
what you wanted to hear, just so that you know.
That's almost like are you so? Are you so not
confident in what you think that you feel like, you know,
even hearing something that's contrary to your present mindset is
such an internal threat that you must suppress it yourself.

(43:19):
So you suppress descending voices. So people don't have to
like what I have to say. They don't have to
certainly like what any of my clients say. I get it,
but I'm here for it up to a point where,
you know, if you become super disrespectful, then we have
a problem. But generally speaking, if you come out, you know,
if you say, look, I disagree with you, and here's
three reasons why I'll hear it, you.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
Know, I'm all about it.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
So yeah, I think, you know, I think just having
a good mindset, being confident in your own perspective, welcoming
opposing points of view as to people with past criminal
histories or what they may be doing.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
Boy, they have a lot, you know, that's their problem.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
Hopefully you know, hopefully that doesn't segue into similar behavior
you know in the community. Yeah, in this community, but
I suspect it won't. Although I can't predict anything, I guess,
so I guess what I'm saying is, look, address those
who you can address, substantively, ignore those who you can ignore,
you know, and and not be I mean, I mean,

(44:17):
this is going to segue into a point that I
have been thinking about occasionally, which is that there's a
certain level of stridency in this community. And I've seen it,
you know, many many times. I'll give a couple of
examples if I can. I just don't want to monopolize.
I don't want to give a speecher, but you know,
if you want to hear it, I'll give you a
brief give. Okay, So you have people on podcasts screaming

(44:40):
at the government for accountability. Well, at the same time,
you know, just not willing to hold people who they
know are doing improper things accountable in it, you know,
who are right next door. Right, Yeah, see that sort
of nonsense, turning a blond eye, well, turning a blind eye,
and just also out of fear. It's certainly easier to
rail again the US government than it is to you know,

(45:02):
in the abstract, but then you know, but then in
your personal life, and you know, you just you're just
not you're you're you're afraid of certain figures and certain
you know whatever. It's just nonsense. I mean, even the
idea that we could take down a cabal in the
US government which has managed to hide this secret for
you know, eighty years.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
But at the same time, within our.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
Own small organizations don't stand up for the truth and
don't call people out for their bad behavior is absolutely
absurdist to me. And you know, I just I don't
I don't have a lot of respect for that. So
but but generally speaking, I guess what I mean is
that the more that we rail against people, you know,

(45:45):
against the Congress or something like that, I just don't think,
you know, I don't know that that's the right approach.
I think that I think we have a job to
do convincing people, and railing against them just generally closes
their ears.

Speaker 3 (46:00):
So I think we've been holding them accountable, you know,
like very respectful way is more important.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
Probably, yeah, let them, you know, And I think that's
a better approach because a lot of people, you know,
in Congress, at least certainly don't know too much about
this whole this whole thing, so I guess you know,
and I'm sorry to read you answered.

Speaker 3 (46:21):
You answered the questions perfectly. Man, don't worry about it.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
Okay, Well, I'm sorry. I probably didn't do the best job.
But anyway, please keep all your receipts because you will
need them if something really comes about, then you'll need
to consult a lawyer. There are mechanisms to deal with
actual harassment and injunctions against harassment and certainly work with
their parties. There are defamation actions. Uh, there's you know,
there's there's there's a false light actions. So there is

(46:45):
a legal recourse. But I think that for the most part,
when you're in this public space of X or podcast
or whatever it is, you know, you have to get
used to a certain degree of just absolute lunatics out
there criticizing you, insane sort of nonsense. And you know,
for the most part, though, I think that unless they're
willing to back it up, you know, unless they have proof, right,
show your proof, and most of them just don't have it.

(47:08):
They just have zero, and that's the you know, and
they like to go you know, I see it in
this community. You know, a lot of gossiping, a lot
of nonsense, and the level of fear in this community
about what other people think of you is so high
it is crazy.

Speaker 3 (47:24):
I mean, I don't paranoia, paranoid, delusional sort of paranoia.

Speaker 2 (47:29):
And then also just oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 (47:31):
You know.

Speaker 2 (47:31):
One of the other peeves of mine, and I've done
it only but by accident, is people post something and
then you know, delete it, and they'll say something to
you know, very stridently, as if they really believe it,
and then they'll just pull it and I'm like, wait
a minute, did you not believe it? I mean, if
you made a mistake, okay, fair enough. You know you
don't want to say something that's not true, and you

(47:52):
know I'll like, unfortunately, I don't know quite how to edit.
I'm not that great at x so bothers me when
I misspell things or you know, have something grammatically wrong,
I'm like, oh, shoot, I wish you could delete it.
And sometimes I think I have a couple of times,
but it's only been because I've been so frustrated with
my obvious grammatical and spelling errors. But outside of that,

(48:14):
if I say something, I one hundred percent meant it,
and people post somebody and then take it down.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
And it's like, did you not mean it the first time?
Like are you you know?

Speaker 2 (48:23):
It becomes the Boy who Cried Wolf, Like if you're
going to say something, say it, leave it there.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
It seems that there.

Speaker 3 (48:27):
Are certain people that get used to brigading attacks and
they'll attack you with that comment and then take it
down because it's it's actually like an online tactic. It's
happened to me a million times. Gotta say I've been
It's good to know yet because I might have to
use you in the future.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
But well to me, just I guess my point is
is like I just find that to be laughable. And uh,
you know, keep your posts up there. If you meant it,
say it, say what you mean, If you meant it,
leave it up there. Yeah, if you didn't. Now now
again of course, if you've changed your mind, or if
you said something that was not factual, or if you
were just you know, angry and you regret. Okay, the

(49:04):
record Now, I always say there's a there's a phrase
or saying says something like and I forget I used
to know where it was, but I'm blanket right now.
But It's like if you it's you know, when the
fact I think John Maynard Keynes was an economist, and
they said, you know when the facts change, I change
my mind. What do you do, sir? Right?

Speaker 1 (49:22):
So, like, if you have received new facts and your
your post that said, you know, one thing or another
was untrue, and you now recognize that, you could leave
it up and make a correction to it. That's kind
of a way of establishing accountability.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
Like, look, I was wrong. Turns out there wasn't an
alien invasion yesterday or whatever. Right, And and then you're like, Okay,
you know that happens. People change their minds, people make mistakes,
people get upset. Sure, but if you meant it, why
take it down? You know, be who you're going to be.
And if people don't like it, who cares? Right? Who cares?

Speaker 1 (49:55):
If what they like?

Speaker 2 (49:56):
You know, are you living for their approval? I don't
so well, that's my point of view.

Speaker 3 (50:01):
Yeah, there are people out there that are your people.
They get behind you, they support you, they get you,
they know you. There are people out there that are
not your people. Don't worry about them. Let's go to
Grant Lava lavac is as Oi.

Speaker 7 (50:20):
How you doing mate, many thanks for hosting the space,
and Ivan, I appreciate you.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
Uh you're taking my question.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
Is my audio coming.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
Through it right?

Speaker 2 (50:30):
Love it?

Speaker 3 (50:30):
It sounds beauty.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
Or very good? Well?

Speaker 7 (50:37):
Look, thanks Ivan for taking my question. Look, I think,
following on from some of the comments you you made
just then, I think youah in an effort to kind
of dispel rumor speculation, and I even go so far
as to say confusion, which unfortunately does run ripe and
rampant throughout social media and certainly UFO Twitter in the

(50:59):
in the day following the house hearing.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
You know, the tweets that you put out did a
pere to.

Speaker 7 (51:05):
Express some animosity towards Danny she and cal Nell and
Jim Garrison. So, in the interest of clarity, are you
able to set the records straight and provide some context
for those comments and and why they were directed to
those three individuals.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
Yeah, it is to those three individuals. I'm just gonna
leave it as no, because they know exactly why and
and and then that's it. But you know, like I said,
in the spirit of this, you know kind of the
introt to this podcast. I know people are curious and
people always want the UFO drama, but I have nothing,
you know, I'm just gonna leave it as it is.

Speaker 3 (51:41):
You know, but unless they engage in some way, if
they community warfare against.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
You, right listen, I am down. I am happy any
moment anybody wants to go and get some you know,
take take testimony and deposition format that could be used later. Uh,
we can go right there. But at this point I'm
just gonna say no, no, no pleasant experiences and uh
just look going to leave it at that. So you know,
that's uh, that's that's what I'll say.

Speaker 3 (52:07):
A grant you joined a bit late. We did mention
a little bit of the nuance to that prior in
the space the starting So if you listen back, you
might get some inklings into why Ivan had that response
online and we kind of said we'll leave it at
He had every right to say those things because he

(52:29):
was under a lot of pressure for no good reason
other than some kind of unfair behavior. And he's got
receipts to prove everything. So that's that.

Speaker 7 (52:42):
I appreciate that does say I appreciate you, no comment.
I can respect that Ivan, That's no problem at all.
But I did have one follow up question, which I
should if it could help the spell in a room
or speculation. I know it's been it's been suggested that
your profile was removed from the Uapai Disclosure Fund website.
Is that some thing that was intentional or inadvertent? Is

(53:02):
there any clarity you can provide behind that?

Speaker 3 (53:06):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (53:06):
Yeah, they did remove my profile because you know, and
and I'm not going to get into the whole thing,
but I don't work with them at this point. I
did help them for a short period of time, and
you know, that's it. You can certainly reach out to
them for further comment. But from my perspective, you know,
it is what it is, and I'm totally happy. I
I like many of the people who work there.

Speaker 3 (53:26):
There's still friends with some people that are working there,
right and you're helping them.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
Uh, I'm not sure exactly if I'm helping them, but
but to the sense that there are people who were
a part of their organization who I who I really
like and think are good people. Absolutely, I won't I
won't necessarily send the same courtesy to their board or
all of their board, but but uh, but nonetheless, you know,
there are good people there and they're trying to do

(53:52):
good things and and and you know, move things forward.
So for them and for for their benefit. I'm just gonna,
you know, leave, leave no further meant as to all
the disputes with the three people you mentioned prior. But
one thing is is that you know with me, I
you know, I just don't really care about you know,

(54:16):
any of that nonsense, like people cannot like me and
you know because of what I've said, And that's totally fine.
Like you know, I used to back when I mean,
people may may not know this, but you know, when
I was shoot, I was in Chicago, went to law
school from ninety three to ninety six in Northwestern And
this is a story I haven't really told a lot,
but it's in a few places online. But in nineteen

(54:39):
ninety seven or eight, forget what it was. And I
know it sounds crazy because I'll just tell you the story,
but I was with my girlfriend at the time and
she had you know, she had dark hair, and I
guess I looked very pale, although you know, I can
ten pretty well, so I usually look a little tan.
But in Chicago at the time, the weathers were freezing,
and I guess I didn't have a lot of so

(55:00):
I looked really white, okay, and the girl I was
with was part Asian and uh part I guess, you know,
German or something. So she looked I guess Hispanic. And
at the time, so we were walking in the street
fair and this lunatic his street name was literally Joe Chicago.
I don't know was I forget his actual name, but

(55:21):
he came from behind me and he, I guess, you know,
I didn't see it. He wrapped a brick up in
his T shirt that he took off so he was shirtless,
and he literally swung a brick that he had picked
up in his T shirt and hit me in the face,
wielding this like mace be you know, and he hit
me and I got knocked out. I didn't know what

(55:43):
was going on at the time. Woke up, you know,
thought I was hit by a car because we were
like next to a bunch of cars. And then the
crab you know, said, hey, that guy just attacked you,
you know, And I had chipped tooth and concussion and
scratched cordy like was you know, I was bleeding. It was.
It was pretty brutal, and we made managed to actually
chase the guy with the help of the crowd and
he ran into a Chicago police officer. He was arrested.

(56:05):
Turned out it was his third hate crime, and when
he was back in the backseat of the car, he said, uh,
you know, I asked him, why did you do that?
Because you know, I just couldn't understand. It was just
so perplexing, you know, to be one hundred percent of provoked.
And he said, because you're a white guy dating a
Mexican and and I swear to God, And I said

(56:28):
to him, and to this day, I have to get
the front twoth fixed about every seven eight years because
of because of that insid misplaced hate, right, And I said,
what was funny though, is I kind of wanted to
tell him, like, you know, hey, you got it kind
of halfway right in the sense that I'm not really
like I'm not a white guy, but you know, I'm
actually Jewish. So I'm sure he didn't like, I'm part Jewish.

(56:50):
I mean my dad was Jewish, so I'm technically sort
of yes and no, but but but you know, I'm
not really white. What I wanted to tell him was,
I'm not really and she's not even Mexican, you know,
But I mean he probably would have hated this. Anyways,
that didn't do much good, and he got sent to
jail for four or five years and found out later
that I think he died, you know, just so at
some point somebody contacted me and said, oh, that guy died.

(57:13):
I don't even remember his name to this day, but
it propelled the journey for me where you know, in
the early two thousands, I started doing kickboxing and muy
Thai and jiu jitsu and MMA, and my best friend
is actually a head coach of a big mixed martial
arts for you know, a team which there's a lot
of you know, has a lot of fighters in the
UFC and so on. And when I was doing you know,

(57:35):
when I was training in all of these arts, especially
you know, just essentially mixed martial arts, you know, i'd
have people who were top, you know, really good, you know,
I'm in my thirties at that point, trying to literally
kill me. I mean, we would, we were. It was
back in the days before training was quite as disciplined,
and it was it was quite it was, you know,
so anyway, I would have people come and say I'm

(57:56):
going to you know, just beat the crap out of you,
and they wanted to and some could do. And so
when I look at this online criticism, I just I
just laugh, you know, because it's like, come on, what
are you gonna do. You're gonna come at me? I
don't think so You're gonna come at me with your words?

Speaker 1 (58:12):
No, are you a lawyer?

Speaker 3 (58:14):
No?

Speaker 2 (58:15):
You know?

Speaker 3 (58:15):
I mean so to me, it's just and it's like
it's it's the brick story. It's misplaced hate. You know,
these people get into these echo chambers of their group chats,
and they get into this belief about certain people with
literally no facts to back up what they're saying. You know,
they got third eyes on their forehead, and they're talking

(58:37):
smack about you. Oh so and so's just a total
loser and bah blah blah. And then they start venting
it publicly and you know, calling you out, and it's
it's not productive, it's not productive. And it's like brick
house Joe walk around swinging bricks in your face for
no god.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
I mean, I guess my point is is like I'm
not you know, somebody's mean tweet about men o'clock, I'm
sorry to cut off. What would you say her? Oh
supposed to be ending this.

Speaker 3 (59:07):
Yeah, I didn't want to cut you off, Ivan, I
got to go to break and segue this thing off
of KGr. But so insightful, loving the conversation. But we're
gonna keep it going. Just give me forty seconds to
play this off and we'll just continue it and have
some other great people come up and chat. So two

(59:28):
seconds here, thank you very much.

Speaker 2 (59:32):
No problem.

Speaker 1 (59:41):
Two hundred years ago, two thousand years ago.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
This isn't going to work.

Speaker 3 (59:45):
She's picking up a massive object in this video.

Speaker 2 (59:50):
Ships that might be closed. I can sense them in
my vicinity, So I guess I'm.

Speaker 3 (59:54):
Just very tuned in Bulkan head Honcho walks out ear reveal, Yeah,
out goes Oh my God was to protect the secrets
from the Air Force that were not out there in public.
So