Jordan Sather - Trump's UFOs Files and Fake Whistleblowers

Tonight's Guest is Jordan Sather, an independent thinker and Republican supporter. He's been involved in UFOs, QANON, Corey Goode's whole SSP fiasco and more. Check out his Substack https://substack.com/@jordansather

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I guess marys All came walks out your reveal.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Yeah, John, Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Was to protect the secrets from the Air Force that
we're not under at home.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
So what's up, everybody? Welcome back to another week a
UFO Twitter Night on kg R A Radio. We're going

(00:37):
live right now. Jordan's say there is going to be
joining us. He's the guest of tonight and he's he's
a friend of mine. We work together on covering this
Dark Alliance story which pro files Corey Good and David

(01:02):
Wilcock and their whole game with the UFO world community,
how they shot into existence and became popular through the
power of Guy a TV and all of the wild

(01:23):
stuff that happened in the community because there was pretty
much people being weaponized each against each other. They are
opinion leaders, maybe not thought leaders, because a lot of
stuff that they say is not provable, and when you

(01:43):
live in reality, you usually want some kind of data
that's provable, right or do we not need that? Have
we given up on proof science facts? It's all about
myth and and you know, unverified claims and everybody gathering

(02:05):
around the campfire to tell their version of a story.
You know, the campfire is a powerful thing. That's something
that we used to survive when we were a more
primitive being. We sat around the campfire and some people
would tell stories to motivate us to keep going forward

(02:31):
and you know, fighting the good fight. Some of those
stories were horror stories or scary stories, you know, the
classic campfire tales, and those fear inducing stories provoke paranoia,
and they probably do trigger a fight or flight response

(02:55):
that makes you want to stay up awake all night
to maybe guard the camp while the campfire is roaring.
But I think that what happens in the UFO community
and not just the UFO community, it happens everywhere around
the world, in any conspiracy community. The campfire effect is

(03:21):
happening every day, all day, twenty four seven, three hundred
and sixty five days a year. Because you know, we
are intrigued by stories, and we rally behind really interesting stories.
We get really excited about scary or intriguing stories. And

(03:48):
there's a danger to that when you rally behind a
story that is bullshit, straight up. And I fear that
people are constantly being misled. And you know, there's people
that are so delusional that they think their story is true,

(04:16):
and that makes them more powerful at speaking that truth.

Speaker 4 (04:26):
So I think that's.

Speaker 3 (04:28):
Partly why Dark Alliance, that docu series are released is important,
because I'm trying to say not everything that's out there
that's ever been said in terms of this conspiracy story
land we live in is true. We need to fact

(04:51):
check people that are speaking so confidently. But time will
tell you know where will we be in regards to
supporting certain stories in three years from now, because that's
how long it took for people to really suss out
that this version of a secret space program did not

(05:14):
seem logical, did not seem real, and a lot of
people in the community abandoned it. There's still some holdouts,
but I've spoken for quite a bit. I'm going to
bring in the Twitter crowd here and I'm kind of
flying blind. Heer Jordan. I think Jordan is there? We go, Jordan,

(05:41):
He's coming up. I can't really see who's up, like,
who's in, who's speaking, who's listening. It's a glitch.

Speaker 5 (05:53):
This app sucks, but you usually.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
Start the show with Dale to sort of say something positive,
to fill the darkness and the fear induced conspiracy world
we live in with something. Yeah, good So Dale, why
don't you take the mic? I'd love to Darcy.

Speaker 6 (06:24):
Tonight.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
I want to give you four.

Speaker 7 (06:25):
Very important words to remember. They are appreciate what you have.
If you have someone special in your life, you need
to appreciate them, Appreciate what you have. You know, if
the wildfires in southern California have taught us anything, it
is that the things we value most can be taken

(06:47):
from us at any moment.

Speaker 8 (06:50):
You know.

Speaker 3 (06:50):
I just returned from southern California. You know, when I
was there, I kind of ran into this famous filmmaker
named Darcy Weir. While I was staying in Pasadena. Darcy
introduced me to Boba te.

Speaker 6 (07:04):
Big mistake.

Speaker 3 (07:06):
See, I don't drink caffeine anymore.

Speaker 7 (07:08):
And now Darcy knows why I talked his ear off.

Speaker 6 (07:13):
I'm just kidding.

Speaker 7 (07:14):
Of course, his ear is still intact. It was one
of those synchronicities where it wasn't planned. We both just
happened to be in Pasadena at the same time. But
you know what I ran into more than Darcy in
southern California, I also ran into two wildfires. One was
near Venture, where I was being interviewed by Steve Neil

(07:35):
of Breaking the silence. The other wildfire was over by
the grapevine and it shut down I five North. That's
the one that made me choke on its smoke for
several miles. Both those wildfires started on Wednesday of last week.
Let me say it again, Appreciate what you have. Let

(07:56):
me think about this. Many of those living in southern
California didn't have a worry in the world, and yet
in a matter of hours they lost everything. Some of
them even died, twenty nine of them at last count.

Speaker 6 (08:11):
What did I say, I said, appreciate what you have.

Speaker 3 (08:16):
Now here's where I'm going with this.

Speaker 7 (08:18):
The UAP community has been asking for first hand whistleblowers.
We finally have one, named Jake Barber. You know, I
found his story compelling, believable, and just what we were
hoping for. This guy is the real deal. He has
all the credentials. The first day, everyone was blown away

(08:39):
by the egg video and by his first hand account.

Speaker 3 (08:42):
That was the first day.

Speaker 7 (08:44):
But then I heard some people on x begin the
nitpick his account. They were like, I believe this, but
I don't believe that. I believe the egg video, but
I can't accept the female entity part.

Speaker 3 (08:58):
Well, I didn't encounter a female entity.

Speaker 7 (09:00):
I can tell you that I had a similar experience
on April eighteenth of twenty twenty four, when a craft
hovered over my house, not once, but twice. And just
like Jake, I described it like having a religious experience.
It was surreal, it was euphoric, it was magical. And
so Jake Barber's story rung true to me because of

(09:22):
my own.

Speaker 3 (09:22):
Experience with the craft.

Speaker 7 (09:24):
Remember he was towing the eight gon a disc with
eight sections to it when these emotions overwhelmed him, and
so it also happened near a craft. This was incredible
eyewitness testimony. Well, I think skepticism is healthy. We have
to be careful that we don't act like vultures and
pick the carcass clean. What kind of message does that

(09:47):
send to the other firsthand whistleblowers waiting in the wings.
Jake was vetted. He is who he says he is.
And so let me end where I began. We need
to appreciate what we have.

Speaker 3 (09:59):
Let me say that one more time.

Speaker 6 (10:01):
We need to appreciate what we have.

Speaker 3 (10:07):
Thank you so much for that, Dale, Can everybody hear me?
I just got a message from Jordan, just making sure
that we're good. We're good, Jordan, are you up here?
I'm kind of flying blind.

Speaker 6 (10:22):
He's there.

Speaker 3 (10:23):
Okay, well, he says a listener. All right, Well we'll
get him to request to be a speaker. I guess
why don't you request be a co host? Andy, so
you can approve people and stuff for me, because this
app is just.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
Put somebody that I won't allow it.

Speaker 3 (10:44):
It won't allow for you to request co host.

Speaker 9 (10:48):
No, it only allow me to request to speak. That is,
hold on, let me see him on the Troy.

Speaker 3 (11:00):
No, that's weird. Hey, Jordan, have you put up a
request to speak?

Speaker 6 (11:08):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (11:09):
Can you hear me?

Speaker 4 (11:10):
Am? I here, we can hear you.

Speaker 6 (11:12):
Okay.

Speaker 10 (11:12):
I was having some technical issues.

Speaker 11 (11:14):
I would the first couple of times I tuned in
and you added me as a speaker, the audio would
completely cut and I couldn't hear you guys.

Speaker 10 (11:20):
So I had to leave a couple of times to
come back in. But it looks like it's working now.

Speaker 3 (11:24):
God to love this out. He's not coming up as
a speaker on my end, He's just coming up as
a listener.

Speaker 4 (11:31):
He just jumped up, Andy.

Speaker 3 (11:33):
Cool.

Speaker 10 (11:34):
Well, yeah, listening to you guys for a few minutes here.

Speaker 11 (11:38):
I mean, I just I okay, so positive words. I
think what's negative and positive is purely a subjective, arbitrary thing.
I think it's positive to expose all the darkness and
corruption and grifting and ridiculousness in all of you apology,
whether it's the underground or what's coming out mainstream now.

(12:01):
And I guess I'm just you know, I study ufology
for about five years ever before I stuck my neck
out on the internet, and then I worked with people
who I now classify as total grifters for about two
two and a half years. And for the past four
or five I've just been watching both what's going on

(12:23):
and the sort of conspiracy underground subculture, and also what's
coming out in the mainstream and all across the board.
I have a very tough time just believing anybody. Really,
I'm quite skeptical. Do I think people have experiences with
seeing U of Akrafto.

Speaker 10 (12:44):
Absolutely, I've seen a few in my day.

Speaker 11 (12:46):
Do I think people are possibly getting contacted by some
kind of some various extrarestrial intelligences?

Speaker 10 (12:54):
Yeah, maybe I don't.

Speaker 11 (12:55):
I don't discount that out of the realm of possibility.
But I just have a difficult time with with all
these people, you know, and there's there's a lot of motivator. Yeah,
there's a lot of motive motivation. People have to come
out with fake or misconstrued stories, videos, photos, et cetera.

(13:17):
Prime motivators being fame and money. You know, fame and money.
Some of them could be just genuine, right, genuine opportunists
or grifters who are looking for some fame to sell
some books or get some clicks on a podcast, where
the case some of them could very well be government

(13:39):
or intel information agents. And if that's the case, motivator,
there would be money because they're probably paid to come
out with their narratives. And you also have be I
think you were talking earlier about it to Darcy the
delusional folks, and the delusional folks genuinely think they have
in a programmed but in that case there would be

(14:05):
valid that's the worst questions and wants or foundation of
your beliefs.

Speaker 9 (14:22):
Uh, Jordan, I'm not sure if it's just me, but
I'm getting a lot of disturbance.

Speaker 6 (14:27):
Which are you?

Speaker 3 (14:29):
I'm kind of rugging there a.

Speaker 10 (14:31):
Bit, was I I am using? Is it still going on?

Speaker 3 (14:38):
You're on your desk not now.

Speaker 10 (14:39):
No, Okay, I'm on my I'm on my phone.

Speaker 11 (14:44):
Using headphones, so it all should be good. But went
in doubt blame the app. You sound pretty blaming.

Speaker 3 (14:52):
Cool, cool, that's all good, you so, but I mean
you kind of rugged when you were talking about the
delusional folks. You know, there's the grifters that fully know
what they're doing. They probably have a planned time horizon
that they're gonna exploit, yeah, right right, community for a
certain amount of time. Then they're gonna probably pull out

(15:14):
or disappear.

Speaker 10 (15:15):
For as long as they can, right, well, go as
long as they can.

Speaker 6 (15:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 11 (15:20):
Then when it comes to the delusional folk, they're you know,
they've I don't know, part of me tries to hold
space for them because maybe they're genuine people deep down,
but they just don't have a solid enough brain to
have self awareness or the wherewithal to question themselves and
gather you know, is this really a legitimate experience I had?

Speaker 10 (15:42):
Or is it just all in my head?

Speaker 11 (15:43):
And then their prime motivator would be validation. They want
validation for their ego, for their claims, for their story,
so they come out and you know what I find
weird now is that in the mainstream, especially over the
past few weeks a couple of months, as you've got
these folks coming out out kind of out of nowhere,
and they're almost recycling a lot of the claims that

(16:05):
we've heard in underground ufology for years, whether it's the
programs targeting people with psionic abilities and the mantis reptilian aliens,
or I had experiences and aliens and I shot them
in an underground bunk or something like that. We've heard
a lot of these claims in underground ufology subculture for years,

(16:26):
if not decades.

Speaker 3 (16:28):
But now we've got a.

Speaker 10 (16:30):
Contingency of fresh new faces being promoted to the mainstream
and sort of this rebranding. But it's the same old stuff.

Speaker 11 (16:37):
And you know, Okay, somebody can have military background and
that's all verified and legitimate and all this stuff, but.

Speaker 10 (16:47):
Does that mean their stories are true?

Speaker 11 (16:49):
And just because they're going on a podcast or a
million followers, does that mean their stories are true? And
the tough part about the delusional folks is their body
language speaks truth, but that doesn't mean it's coming out
of their mouth is true. Right, So they're a little
they're a little tougher to sort of diagnose if they're
bullshitting or not, because they don't think they're bullshitting, So

(17:10):
it's a.

Speaker 10 (17:10):
Little tougher to gauge.

Speaker 11 (17:11):
But I just there's I'm just worried about the whole
sciot nature of it because so many of these people
coming out with their books and their new documentaries and
getting promoted around Joe Rogan and all that they're One
of their prime narratives is that all this stuff is alien,
none of it's US tech, none of it's man made.
And I definitely called BS on that. I think most,

(17:34):
not all, but most UFO is seen in our skies.

Speaker 10 (17:36):
Are likely man made tech electrogravitic.

Speaker 11 (17:41):
Phase conjugate, microwave levitation, call it what you want. So
I've heard that claim promoted by your Jeremy Corbel's or
Louela Zando. It's kind of your mainstream, sort of legacy
UFO speakers.

Speaker 3 (17:56):
So I called bs on that one.

Speaker 11 (17:57):
And then you got to wonder if if money's emotevator
for some of these groups. And know Jake Barber's come out,
He's got his new Skywatcher, private equity, We're gonna we're gonna.

Speaker 10 (18:06):
Privately fund crash retrievals and all that.

Speaker 11 (18:08):
But gotta wonder if that's like some sort of honeypot
that billionaires are setting up or something like that, Like, Okay,
great private equity is going to do the crush triebals now,
is that just gonna all get.

Speaker 10 (18:20):
Blackballed and and whatnot?

Speaker 4 (18:22):
Or I think.

Speaker 3 (18:24):
Private equity is good. To be honest, I don't think
there should be a fear there because you're literally talking.
Depends depends well, people here that have money and are like,
I want to see if this is real, right, so
they're just throwing you know, if they're going to be
throwing their money at this stuff to get to the

(18:44):
greater truth, that's great.

Speaker 11 (18:46):
You know, we know that it could be it could
be easier to tell the truth that way. It could
also be easier to hide it that way. So it
just it depends.

Speaker 4 (18:54):
You know.

Speaker 3 (18:54):
I'm just saying, it's not taxpayer money. It's not you
know money, it's being illegally funded through programs within the
military and you know, the intelligence community.

Speaker 6 (19:10):
That type of thing.

Speaker 3 (19:11):
It's it's literally people that are like, okay, I want
to throw my hat in the ring here and find
out many thing that's maybe not I mean, bad Big
loaded the same sort of stuff right for years, and.

Speaker 10 (19:27):
And that all ended up in a History Channel show
and kind of a nothing further.

Speaker 2 (19:30):
I mean, it's a kind of I kind of get
where he's coming from. It's it's unfortunate because of you know,
like the people in the past who have done these
kind of things and kind of tainted the entire thing,
which is understandable, you know, and it's it's hard now
to follow it the way it was, you know, years ago,
when it was all still mysterious because you didn't have

(19:54):
any of that. But so much of that has happened
lately that it's like it's difficult to believe these things.

Speaker 6 (20:01):
Because you really don't know what the motivating.

Speaker 12 (20:03):
Factor is behind the scenes.

Speaker 3 (20:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (20:06):
Am I paranoid and jaded.

Speaker 11 (20:07):
Maybe, But there's also just the urge to stay cautious
and not get all excited because we've got new voices,
new faces, and a.

Speaker 10 (20:17):
New mainstream audience.

Speaker 11 (20:18):
Yeah, there's still there's still a lot of possibility there
for a dark agendas and syops to be driven. So
I just I don't want worried about a bunch of
people jumping on bandwagons.

Speaker 10 (20:31):
They don't really know what these bandwagons.

Speaker 4 (20:33):
Are all about quite yet, right.

Speaker 11 (20:35):
I mean, like Darcy you said earlier, it could take
three years for someone's true motivations to really show to
a lot of people. And with these new faces that
are coming out on News Nation and Joe Rubin podcasts
and New York Times articles, it's like we're giving them
what a solid twenty four hours before we get all
happy and.

Speaker 4 (20:52):
Jump on their bandwagons.

Speaker 10 (20:53):
So it's, uh, it's odd to me some of these.

Speaker 7 (20:56):
People go honestly, fairly, some of these people have been
They've been trying to get him out for two years,
so I wouldn't say they just jumped on the scene.

Speaker 8 (21:04):
Now.

Speaker 3 (21:05):
I probably agree.

Speaker 7 (21:06):
With you about the Joe Rogan one, but I would
just say be cautious here because there are a lot
of people that are scared to death to tell their story.
And I agree some people are delusional, some people are
out for profit, But there are some sincere people out
there and they're just going to get destroyed in the
wash if we're not careful. So we've got to have
some kind of sensitivity to people in the process of

(21:29):
vetting people out.

Speaker 3 (21:31):
Yeah, that's true. Let me jump in here and just
say a few things. First of all, Steven Diners jumped up.
Great guy. He interviewed me recently when I was in
Nevada about the Pasca Gula doc series that I released.
He's got a great show and podcasts, so people should

(21:54):
check him out, follow him if they haven't already on Twitter,
probably everybody on Twitter as already. Steven, how are you?

Speaker 12 (22:03):
Yeah, Hey, Darcy, thanks for the invite. Tonight's is great.

Speaker 13 (22:06):
I appreciate to the invite and glad to come on
tonight and glad to have you on my show.

Speaker 12 (22:11):
Thanks again for coming on.

Speaker 13 (22:12):
It was really cool to talk to about pasc and Goola.
That's on of my favorite cases. So congrat to get
on the film.

Speaker 3 (22:17):
Thank you.

Speaker 4 (22:18):
Ben.

Speaker 3 (22:18):
Yeah, So we started off the show just catching up.
We're talking about, you know, kind of the dangers of
false whistleblowers that might be becoming super famous and you know,
getting on big, big, big channels that can amplify their story.

(22:41):
Two ridiculous means, right, like once you have Look, it
was only about two months ago that Joe Rogan had
Billy Carson on, and Billy Carson, you know, did his
thing talked about you know, falsehoods.

Speaker 6 (22:59):
Of the Bible and so on and so forth.

Speaker 3 (23:02):
Then we had a massive blow up in the overall
like community because well the Christian community, because he was confronted,
he was debated, and he was proven wrong about historical details.
He was not speaking properly too, and that was a

(23:24):
quick correction. But he could have gone for three years
and not been checked factually for things that he was
speaking improperly about. When we get somebody that's blown up,
you know, talking about going into caves and shooting aliens

(23:45):
and you know, seeing another blue alien and possibly was
on a twenty in back mission where he's related his
experience to twenty and back, which now do to court
deposition videos and you know, all the factual material in

(24:07):
the public now we have, we know that Corey Goods
twenty and backstory was fabricated. He mined it from other
UFO and conspiracy theories in the community for decades, and
then he constructed his own tail and called it twenty
and back. And then you know where we heard about

(24:30):
alien being shot in a cave, Philip Schneider, and I'm
pretty dang close to that story. I interviewed his late
ex wifewed everything I could about underground based construction and
the possibilities that those exist. I do believe that some
of the things he spoke about were tripped like UFO

(24:57):
you know, programs to either capture, reverse engineer them, or
keep them hidden in bases. I think that's real. I
think we do have underground bases. But you know, his
fingers weren't blown off from an alien firefight. We know
that to be untrue. At this point. There are photos

(25:18):
going back from when he was like a teen and
he was missing those fingers, So it didn't happen when
he was an adult building a base, you know. But
I think he knew he could sell that story of
killing aliens in a cave building an underground base for
the military industrial complex because the UFO community at that

(25:43):
time was looking for that type of sensationalism. They were
looking for something so shocking, and if it were true, wow,
oh my gosh, can we take that testimony to the bank,
then everything about reality is wrong. And you know, we've
got to listen to this guy because he's like UIFO Jesus,

(26:05):
He's telling us the truth and he's been wounded from it. Right,
That's what I'm kind of seeing repeated here, and it
worries me because even if you see other people retweeting
that claim to be like you know, aerospace and missile
scientists or something, They're like, yeah, it's true what he said,

(26:27):
UFOs are taken down by radar. That is truth, and
here's like all the evidence or whatever. And I heard
him say that in the Joe Rogan podcast.

Speaker 8 (26:35):
Well guess what.

Speaker 3 (26:36):
That whole radar takedown of UFO's theory has been around
since the fifties, since nineteen forty seven Roswell crash. Like,
this is not new. This is something that's being repeated, right,
So how do we check that we're not being deceived?

(26:56):
I mean, everybody wants to support the next whistleblow or
I support Jake Barber. I think there's some credibility behind
what he's saying. You know, all of these things need
to pan out and check out over time. But I'm
very skeptical about mister Sand's claims, and I've been that

(27:19):
way since the start. This is nothing new, you know,
there's there seems to be motivations there. People are can
be defensive and they can you know, be emotional about this,
or they can be logical and they can watch the
facts and track things the way they're really going down,

(27:43):
and that's what I'm trying to do. So we got
some people coming up to speak. Andy, Oh I lost Stephen. Andy,
would you like to delegate? Who will speak next?

Speaker 8 (27:59):
Well, you don't mind, I want to. They want to
say something really quick.

Speaker 6 (28:03):
I'm glad that this whole delusion thing has been.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
Brought up because just recently I've been kind of like
calling things out on other pages and making my own
posts regarding this because I notice now how literally, like
I mean, just regular stars in the sky are being
posted by random individuals that are coming up.

Speaker 12 (28:25):
You know, with.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
Blurred out and then the camera refocuses and they're like,
oh my god, look it's changing shape and my son
is reacting with it, and it's like it's bugging me
like to like unknown level, because it's it's like you're
you're you're seeing that people really do have delusion and

(28:48):
are incapable of doing their own research to debunk themselves.
And that's a real like dangerous thing that that's happening
now because it's like almost people's how can you say,
delusions are running rampant, and that's going to be really

(29:08):
really difficult with this subject now that it's coming out
in this way, because it can go either, you know,
a good path, or can go a bad path. You
know what I'm saying, because it's just going to give
those people.

Speaker 14 (29:19):
Who are already doubting even more.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
Reason to doubt, because these people are coming forward showing
regular munding things in this guy that they just keep
claiming or UFO or you know, unknown ORBS or you know.

Speaker 6 (29:31):
Whatever it is, and that's not the case.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
Like for example, that video that the officer released from
New Jersey of the orb that transformed into a drone.

Speaker 14 (29:41):
That was the fucking plane. It was a plane coming
in that you were seeing from the front and then
it turned and then you were able to see the rest.
And that's coming from someone with some.

Speaker 2 (29:55):
Level of authority, and people are believing that, and that's
you know, it does get the crap out of me
because it's like, what that that can that can literally
do more damage than it has ever done before because
of where we're at now with the subject. So it's
it's kind of been bugging me a lot lately seeing
that all over social media.

Speaker 3 (30:15):
But what you're describing there is andy hysteria. This is
classic psychological hysteria. People get so excited over these things.
They they are so swept up with the fact that
maybe there is a phenomenon and that you know, it's
interacting with our planet that they see uh. And you know,

(30:39):
in that regard that video you're talking about, when you
see a plane from the distance and its headlights are
heading towards you, that looks like one big glowing ball
of light, and people will perceive that as a as
a verb sometimes, right, But it's not till it gets closer,

(31:00):
until it turns or you get a different vantage point
that you finally see the headlights for what they are. Right,
And there are real orbs. There are real, you know,
spheres that are either looking like a ball of energy
or metallic that don't have typical flight surfaces that have

(31:22):
been photographed and videoed over the years, and I think
those are legitimate UAP or UFOs. But the problem is
when hysteria is in place where people are so swept
up with you know, what's going on In terms of
people discussing this in public, they their logic gets lost

(31:46):
and they get too excited about what's in front of
them and they think it's real.

Speaker 13 (31:52):
Yeah, and I think if I could, Darcy, if you
don't mind, the two things to touch on real quick.
The first one kind of going back to what you
were saying about, you know, how do we trust how
do we know who to trust? As far as whistle
blowers and people come out firsthand experiences things like that,
it's a tough situation because, you know, and in some cases,

(32:15):
I almost feel like I almost feel like we contradict
ourselves sometimes, meaning we ask for people to come out,
We say, boy, we really wish more whistle blowers would
come out. We really wish that, you know, people with
firsthand experience would be able to find within themselves. And
you know, we understand it's a risk, but we really

(32:36):
wish they would come out and talk and tell us
what they know, what they experienced. And then in some
cases it actually happens and they get ridiculed, you know
what I mean. So it's it's hard because then as
natural skeptics, like a lot of us kind of are,
because we don't.

Speaker 12 (32:55):
Want to fall for something.

Speaker 13 (32:56):
We don't want to be the one that spreads of
the story and then we got duped and then that
ruins reputations. So it's like this double edged sword, right,
And I think that's just kind of how maybe it
is in the community right now, and that's what makes
it hard. We crave the information, We crave somebody to
come out and give us something concrete that we can

(33:18):
sink our teeth into and say, oh my gosh, this
is it, this is what we've been waiting for. But
then someone comes out with something like that and we say, well,
we're not here.

Speaker 12 (33:27):
We believe you.

Speaker 13 (33:28):
So it's hard, right, It's kind of that paradox, if.

Speaker 12 (33:32):
You will, I mean, am I off on that?

Speaker 6 (33:34):
Do you think no?

Speaker 3 (33:35):
I think you're right, Like it is a bit of
a catch twenty two. But the reality is that the
ones that are feeding off of the community and creating
sensationalism and exploiting the vulnerabilities of belief that are out
there and people that are already into this, they ruin

(33:59):
it for the rest of us because then the rest
of media starts to look at somebody's tails or somebody's uh,
you know, allegations of what happened to them or what
they did, and then when that gets debunked over time,
it makes every other whistleblower that comes forward look like

(34:21):
a joke. Right, and I you know, I'm I'm behind
certain whistle I think certain whistleblowers are real. Like I
support lou al Zondo. Not everybody does. Sure, fine, I
think he's he did some true things. He worked for
the government on a UAP, you know, a tip program,

(34:45):
and he saw those videos and him and Christopher Mellan said,
we got to get this out to the public. They
did that, and we're living in this like post disclosure
world right now, right. But in this world we're living
in right now, people are being flooded with all kinds
of bs, but they're also being flooded with some reality.

(35:10):
And it's just the danger is we're missing the kernels
of truth and everybody's getting swept up by whacking aliens
in a cave and you know, triny powered aircraft Like
look that Nellis Air Force Base UFO video is famous.

(35:34):
Came out in nineteen ninety you know, shot in nineteen
ninety two. Supposedly that's right around the time that Sans
was working at the Air Force base. So he has
the ability to say, well, you know, I know everything
that happened behind the scenes with that video, and I

(35:54):
saw the alien and but now there's all these other
things and it's like, oh boy, you know. Yeah, it's
like you got the video and then you've got an
additional story. It's like the the bonus story that you
get on top of it and there's no way of
proving it.

Speaker 13 (36:16):
Yeah, Jason Jason Sands is and I apologize. I know
we have a lot of raise in their hands. I
don't want to take up the entire space, but just
just to speak to Jason Jason Sands real quick. It's
really interesting for me personally because he's a guy that's
i mean quite frankly developed a friendly relationship with over

(36:37):
the past year.

Speaker 12 (36:39):
And that's fine.

Speaker 13 (36:40):
You can disagree with him. Doesn't like offend me or
anything like that. But it's just just for me personally,
it's a tough one to reconcile and look at because
I had conversation with him. I haven't spoken about this
that much. I think maybe I mentioned that I'm on
my show maybe maybe one time.

Speaker 12 (37:01):
I can't even remember if I did.

Speaker 13 (37:03):
But I had like a three and a half hour
conversation with him one night, just privately, wasn't on for podcast,
just on the phone, and.

Speaker 12 (37:12):
He just spilled his soul to me.

Speaker 13 (37:14):
For like three and a half hours because we had
a mutual contact someone that he works with and worked
with and the intelligence community is someone that I've also
developed a relationship with who's been on my show a
ton of times, and they were friends, and so he recommended, hey,
speak to Stephen Dianer. So that's that's how Jason Sands

(37:35):
and I ended up connecting. And he told me that night, gosh,
how long ago was this? Maybe seven months ago? On
that phone conversation he talked about all this stuff with
you know, I was in this program.

Speaker 12 (37:51):
They kidnapped me.

Speaker 13 (37:53):
They were upset of me for bringing my family to
the base and I broke some type of agreement I
didn't even know was there, and they wanted to kill
me and they used me instead for this program and
I was killing space aliens, like you said in the
Tate in this cave and I'm sitting there listening to
this in this this conversation, just me on the phone
with him, and I'm like, oh my gosh, what am

(38:15):
I hearing? This is like you know, Starship Troopers, Like
what is happening?

Speaker 6 (38:19):
Yeah?

Speaker 13 (38:20):
And it was it was really tough to reconcile. But
what made it I think the thing that really got
to me was it was it was a story that
he didn't have to tell me, you know what I mean,
I'm not I wasn't Joe Rogan sitting on a podcast
with five million people listening. I was just in my

(38:40):
house talking to him on the phone, and he told me.

Speaker 12 (38:45):
Not to tell anybody about it.

Speaker 13 (38:47):
So I don't know, I mean, is it's just you
felt like he wanted to plant the seed or something.

Speaker 6 (38:52):
I don't know.

Speaker 13 (38:53):
I don't think that was the case, but you know,
if you just want to look at both sides. But
that was that was the thing that really got to
me about that was He's going through all this and
he says, you know, don't tell anybody about this. James
Fox didn't even want me to put in the documentary.
And that checked out because when he and James Fox
went on Julian Dorri together, James Fox came up, Dory

(39:16):
brought it up and Fox is like, I don't want
to talk about this.

Speaker 12 (39:18):
I'm going to leave the move if you talk about this.

Speaker 13 (39:20):
He didn't want it in the program in the film,
so is James Wilds.

Speaker 12 (39:28):
I understand James.

Speaker 3 (39:29):
Fox didn't even know about that. Until after the film
came out, and it was being told about in spaces right.
So that's the difference. James Fox was never privy to
this information prior to the film being released. They took
the fact that the Nellis Air Force Base video was intriguing,

(39:53):
and then you have somebody that comes forward that said
they worked on the Nellis Air Force Base and they
have the backstory of an in the end that they
met and stuff that was from the craft in that video.
That is what they knew about at the time. They
didn't know about the you know, Starship Troopers thing till after.

Speaker 12 (40:15):
Okay, maybe I got that wrong.

Speaker 13 (40:16):
I was under the impression then, because the way he
told the story to me was he told it the
James Fox while they were filming, and Fox told him,
don't we're not talking about that.

Speaker 12 (40:25):
We can't put that in the movie.

Speaker 3 (40:27):
Seven months ago he said that to you, or yeah,
last month or something.

Speaker 13 (40:31):
No, No, this was back, yeah, I would say, just
off the top of my head sometime. I think it
was in May of twenty twenty four. This is yeah,
this is well before the program came out.

Speaker 4 (40:44):
Hmm.

Speaker 3 (40:45):
So James already considered that to be a tricky story.

Speaker 13 (40:52):
Yes, yeah, that was something again, take it you know,
however you will, But that was something that he told me.
I would have to look back, I wrote, I wrote
down a lot of notes in our conversation in my notebook.

Speaker 12 (41:05):
I would have to go back and find that date
when we spoke.

Speaker 13 (41:08):
But I want to say it was some time in May,
and that that was something he told me that night.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
Interesting, well, you know yeah again, it's like, yeah, it
just seems so equivalent to Phil Schneider, yeah and Corey Good,
Like these are two two alien fighters, right, and to
program people, two people that were part of some kind

(41:37):
of program, right, But we know for a fact that
they weren't.

Speaker 4 (41:43):
Like that.

Speaker 3 (41:44):
Corey Good never went to space. He admitted that right
in a deposition in court. So I mean it's that
was the first real red flag for me. Astral held
a space. I think it was around May of last year.

(42:07):
So I think even though you know he was on
the phone with you for a long time, baring his
heart telling this story, he was on spaces like very
soon after telling his story, well not that one, but
telling everything else the blue alien right, and I joined

(42:30):
that space.

Speaker 6 (42:32):
I like Astrol.

Speaker 3 (42:33):
I think, you know, he's got he's got his opinions
about everything in the community too, and I wanted to
hear everything. And then when he mentioned some other guy
mentioned twenty and Back and then Jason validated it, and
I was in the middle of working on Dark Alliance

(42:53):
at that time and was like, what the f like,
is this guy for real saying that a hoax is real?
And I jumped up and I asked him for clarification,
and he said, yeah, like I served in something like that,
so that is problematic to me. And again, like I

(43:17):
I'm okay with looking like some kind of jerk for
questioning the authenticity of these claims. No, and you're not.

Speaker 12 (43:26):
It's fair to question, Yeah, And I.

Speaker 3 (43:30):
Think everybody should. And I think part of what feeds
hysteria is when people, you know, are just glomming on
and pushing something further than it should. And you know,
we do have Jordan's say there here, Jordan, you are

(43:53):
really close to this whole grift building of the twenty
and back. You were on the ground floor with Corey
Good and David Wilcock at times. So can you discuss
a bit of that, Just give us a bit of
an idea of what that was like, and how you

(44:13):
initially reacted, like how you were super supportive and you know,
were you defensive in social media against other people that
spoke out against the story. Do you would you consider
that to be a similar phenomenon to what's going on now?

(44:35):
Do we still have Jordan?

Speaker 7 (44:37):
They got him, they took him out.

Speaker 8 (44:41):
No, No, he's.

Speaker 6 (44:43):
There, Jordan.

Speaker 3 (44:44):
Can you hear me? I guess he's taken a break.

Speaker 4 (44:55):
Oh?

Speaker 12 (44:56):
Can I say one one thing real quick, Darcy?

Speaker 13 (44:58):
And then just to kind of speak to this situation again,
when you go back to the blue alien sighting in
the desert that day, there's a detail there that I
wish we could talk to these other guys, because the
detail there was that there were two other guys in
the jeep that day, right, And I can verify from

(45:25):
what I've been told from people who have knowledge of
that day, there really were guys in the jeep with them,
and unfortunately they're just like nowhere to be found when
it comes to this. So I just I just wish that,
you know, they would step up. But that's easy for
me to say, right, I Mean, I'm not in that situation,

(45:46):
but it would be obviously helpful to Jason's case, if
those guys decided to come out because there really were
guys in the JEP with them that day that witnessed that.

Speaker 3 (45:59):
Okay, so yeah, I think that's a very valid point.
I think, you know, when this all pans out, maybe
we will get some former co workers who you know,
we're alongside mister Sands, and they will give their testimony.
That's all we can ask for validation of the story

(46:24):
or invalidation of the story, as long as it's true.
You need to know what is true here, right, But
Georgian are you here? He's not up, But Paul, Paul,
go for it, buddy.

Speaker 15 (46:42):
Hey, Darcy, you get to get to hear you very interesting,
important discussion.

Speaker 3 (46:48):
I think.

Speaker 15 (46:51):
I just wanted to comment on a couple of things.
I really, I think you've you've all brought up many
gold points, and not to be labor any of them.
But when it comes to this hysteria that we're talking about. First,
I think it's important to say that we have two
problems here. We have the people that are taking advantage

(47:14):
of a vulnerable public, but then we also have this
overall you know, government cover up or or the powers
that be whoever is not allowing for transparency, and so
it's that kind of gaslighting situation that allows for this.

Speaker 6 (47:31):
So I just think.

Speaker 15 (47:32):
That that needs to be said. It's kind of obvious,
but you know, so with that agree, yeah, yeah, But
you know, with that said, it's really unfortunate how people
are able to kind of you know, some kind of
shifty people are able to thrive in this, in this atmosphere.

(47:52):
And you know, when it comes to Jason Sands, like
you know, I also like I I've talked to him
a fair bit as well. He seems like a very
nice I don't have anything against him personally, but you
brought up Phil Schneider earlier, and you brought up how
like Corey Good for example, kind of mind a lot

(48:13):
of previous UFO lore for his own story. And I
can't help but notice a similar thing with Mason SAMs,
where almost every almost every like every time he talks,
he seems.

Speaker 12 (48:26):
To add another layer.

Speaker 15 (48:27):
And then, most recently on Joe Rogan, I noticed he
talks about this star map that he apparently had downloaded,
and it just so happens to be sounds like the
exact same star map that that Betty Hill was. Yeah,
Zata reticuli, and the way that he said it on
the interview was kind of funny. He's like, Oh, it's

(48:47):
so cool that I'm able to remember that at the
top of my head, even though I didn't know what
it was like. He had to kind of clarify at
the last second there. So it's I don't like, so,
I don't know how much of this is intentional, how
much of this is you know, his own conflating of
of what he's experienced. But I'll just say this, where

(49:11):
I really land is kind of similar to what I've
heard James Fox say in light of what's come up,
where it's like his h and what you guys have
been saying that this initial Nellis Test Range incident that
allegedly took place with the Blue alien and that allegedly
has some people that were around that hopefully we can

(49:32):
find in the future that can back it up, or
who have already been found at least two of them.
Supposedly that exists on a different kind of epistemological stage
than this alien killing Starship Trooper stuff, because you know,
when you when you press him on the Nellis Test

(49:54):
Range stuff, it's incredibly detailed and seems like it could
be backed up, but when you press him on the
other stuff, it seems very kind of wishy washy and
almost dream like, and that that's not even to completely
discount its reality. But it bothers me nonetheless, that he
seems to be holding those at the same level of

(50:20):
you know, you should trust me on this. We're on
one hand, you know, I can maybe back up this
one experience, But on the other hand, this one just
so happened to be you know, only me that you know,
it was taken out of my bedroom. I don't remember
how it started or how it ended. You know that
that is strange to me and speaks to a kind
of overall self awareness.

Speaker 3 (50:41):
And so so I want to say that.

Speaker 15 (50:43):
And in closing, I think that this is why it's
really tough to rely on whistleblowers. And I think that we, uh,
we should not necessarily expect disclosure from whistle blowers because
it seems to only muddy muddy the waters as time
goes on. But thanks for letting me speak.

Speaker 3 (51:00):
Dude, Thank you. I feel like I'm not alone.

Speaker 10 (51:05):
Can you hear Darcy?

Speaker 6 (51:07):
Yeah? Oh, dude, thank you, so can I can I
just uh.

Speaker 11 (51:13):
No, I've been listening for like fifteen minutes and trying
to speak. But this things give me all kinds of
issues tonight.

Speaker 4 (51:18):
This okay, So I'm gonna.

Speaker 11 (51:21):
Go over that question you asked me, Darcy, and a
few of the things I've heard from the speakers. So
did I defend Corey back in the day? Oh yeah,
back in like twenty seventeen eighteen, I was defending all
that group I was in, And you know, it took
me a couple of years to realize, I'll shoot, maybe
maybe I'm believing some weird people. In terms of whistleblowers, Yeah,

(51:42):
I think the word whistleblower itself is just so overused.
It's kind of lost its meeting these days. And a
lot of people are expecting like a capital D disclosure,
full disclosure from the government. But number one, I think
we can't expect that at all because the government is
such a convoluted, bureacratic mess that tons of people in
the government have no idea what's going on. And some

(52:03):
of these secrets have probably been so locked away that
we can't expect them everage see the light of day.
So I think it's just, you know, we have to
come to terms with the fact there might be some
stuff we never know where we won't be told from
the authorities because the authorities have no freaking clue. And
I also wonder sometimes, you know, and this is we
were talking earlier, Darcy.

Speaker 4 (52:22):
About the delusional people.

Speaker 11 (52:26):
I wonder sometimes I just think if maybe these folks
are getting hit with some voice of God, voice to
skull mkotre mind control technologies, and shoot, maybe that's why
their stories kind of all sound the same, is because
it's the same memories getting imprinted under their brain that
they think are true but really aren't. And really, that
would be the best person to bring out to if

(52:48):
you want to get some disinformation in the public, somebody
genuinely believes it. And also, yeah, naturally, I mean there's
going to be a ton of fixed stories amongst the
real ones. I'm sure there's real experiencers and whatnot out there,
whistleblowers if we want to use that term, but there's
gonna be a lot of fake ones put out to
the bulb of too, just to muddy the waters. And naturally,

(53:09):
that is going to be one aspect of any kind
of sciop agenda, which there absolutely is. Siop agenda's being
ran around all this mainstream upho disclosure we've been seen
since twenty seventeen. So there will be stuff put out
there too, muddy the waters too specifically make us paranoid
about the real people.

Speaker 4 (53:27):
But you know, I'll finish up with this. This is
the one thing I wanted.

Speaker 11 (53:30):
To say if I was trying to put myself in
the shoes of an experiencer whistle blower that wants to
come public. If I was in that position, I would,
especially in this day and age, I would try to
make damn sure that I have as much corroborating evidence,
whether it's photographic, testimonial, video, digital, whatever the case i'd have.

(53:52):
I'd try to conglomerate as much corroborative evidence and try
to avoid shady ass people as much as I could
and get my story out to the log I mean,
we have social media these days, and I know some
of these experiences are on social media and they're trying
to get their story out there, and it's not until
they get on Joe Rogan or a media broadcast that they.

Speaker 4 (54:14):
Kind of hit the big time.

Speaker 11 (54:15):
But I mean, you see so many of these experiencers
or whistlers or people teaming up with just weird folks
Like I don't know, it's odd to me, and they
don't really come out with that much evidence to purport
their claims. And it's often said extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence,
and I don't really like that phrase because the word

(54:36):
extraordinary is subjective, but still like, why not try to
bring more than just a fuzzy black and white video
or one little thing or some testimony. I mean, testimony
doesn't hold up in court. You need more than that,
So why not try to bring as much.

Speaker 4 (54:53):
As you can?

Speaker 11 (54:55):
And maybe there's reasons they each have individually, but it's
just something weird to me with some of these so
called experiences and with some blowers hitting the mainstream these.

Speaker 3 (55:03):
Days, right, you know, can I ask you something? Yeah,
go ahead. So Corey Good was considered a whistleblower at
the time to you, right, Like when he first hit
the scene and was becoming very famous, people considered his
testimony to be like groundbreaking, right, the fact that there

(55:26):
is a real secret space program that word again, the program,
and that he was in space fighting reptilians. And you know,
he did his first tour of duty, which was twenty
years and back he did his second tour of duty,
which is twenty years and back. He did his third

(55:48):
tour of duty, which is twenty years and back. And yeah,
it also happens that that was just actually because it
was three seasons of his testimony.

Speaker 11 (55:58):
But anyways, before five and another season ninety six twenty
back to you, you were.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
Convinced he was a whistleblower when he first came forward.

Speaker 6 (56:07):
Great.

Speaker 11 (56:07):
I don't know if I ever called him a whistleblower
because to me, that term is very technical in nature,
so I don't use that term lightly. But insider, Oh yeah,
funny fact.

Speaker 3 (56:19):
Ex Actually that was the word that David Wilcock was
using all the time back then instead of whistleblower was insider, right.

Speaker 11 (56:27):
Right, whatever buzzword or phraseology you want to throw on there.

Speaker 10 (56:32):
And sure, yeah, I.

Speaker 11 (56:34):
Believed that, you could say around twenty seventeen eighteen, okay.

Speaker 3 (56:41):
And so when you were in that sphere of belief
and part of the inner circle of these people supporting
him and David Wilcock and anybody else that was connected
to them, Emory Smith or you know, Michael Sala whoever.
If you so negative comments, you would like jump onto

(57:04):
those comments on Facebook. I think Facebook was the Twitter
of that time, and you would probably defend those guys
or attack the commenter that was.

Speaker 11 (57:14):
Being made I made, I made Facebook post, Twitter post,
YouTube videos. I remember getting into a spat with dark
journalists and some other people back in the day over
over Core.

Speaker 4 (57:23):
And yeah, I was defending them.

Speaker 11 (57:24):
And it's it's that egoic belief of like it's the
cognitive dissonance, right, It's the cognitive distance you get, Oh
I believe this person or I'm friends with them, right,
with these people like comes even more cognitive dissonance in
your head. And oh yeah, and these days with so
many more people coming out and UFO is going mainstream

(57:45):
now and all that, it's like there's tons of little
groups around, these little clicks forming around certain.

Speaker 4 (57:51):
People and private defending each other.

Speaker 3 (57:57):
Right, yeah, it's like private signal groups, private Twitter groups,
and they're all saying, yeah, this Darcy guy doesn't know
what he's talking about. You know, he's just he's a grifter,
you know, what does he know. He's just a filmmaker.
He doesn't know anything. And it's like, actually, I've been,

(58:17):
I've been.

Speaker 10 (58:18):
I'm team Greer, I'm team Corey, I'm team Jake.

Speaker 11 (58:21):
I'm team Jason, like, whatever the fuck, maybe they're all
full of shit.

Speaker 12 (58:24):
Wait can I'm sorry, guys, Can I cut in?

Speaker 3 (58:26):
Dusty?

Speaker 8 (58:26):
Are we on? Are we on the show?

Speaker 3 (58:28):
Because it's over almost ten? Oh yeah, I gotta cut two.

Speaker 6 (58:35):
I don't have to shut it off.

Speaker 3 (58:37):
Thanks for catching that, Andy, I do have to play
the outro just so the guys tomorrow can put deep podcast.

Speaker 5 (58:45):
Give me a second ago.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
This is she's picking up that object in this video.

Speaker 12 (59:03):
Chefs that back in the sense that I might have said.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
So, I guess I'm just very tune in all Kimo
walks out your reveal yet out John's Oh my God,
was to protect the secrets from the Air Force that
we're not out the hold, So.

Speaker 3 (59:31):
And we're back. Sorry about that. Thanks for the catch, Andy,
But we're gonna keep just keep it going, just keeping
it going here.

Speaker 2 (59:41):
So you might add, you might I add something real
quick to what Jordan said before before I get.

Speaker 3 (59:46):
This, just before you do. Sorry, I just want to confirm.
So what you're seeing in terms of behavior of people
White nighting, these whistleblowers or insiders that have come forward
now in the UFO community, would you say it's pretty
much the exact same behavior that you had or other

(01:00:08):
supporters of the Cory Goods story did in the past.

Speaker 10 (01:00:13):
Yeah, sure, yes, similar, no doubt.

Speaker 3 (01:00:16):
Yeah. So, like you've learned from this history has gone on,
you've become a much more educated person. And just so
everybody knows, those dudes took advantage of Jordan, they used
him to make two documentaries. He literally flew around the country,

(01:00:36):
filmed the interviews, edited the whole first documentary, and got
paid for three months and then they collected the funds
for the rest of their lives. So this is what
grifters loved to do. They love to set up their fame,
They loved to set up their support, They loved to

(01:00:56):
set up their little armies of you know, people or
minions that will defend their story. And then they want
to make their money. So let's just see how that goes.
But yeah, sorry, Andy, I cut you off.

Speaker 2 (01:01:13):
No, no, all good I just wanted to mention something
because he had brought up regarding his concerns about you know,
coming forth with you know, evidence to back up your
claims and all this stuff, and from experience from the
videos that I got two years ago from DHS before
releasing the most important one I had that go through

(01:01:37):
an entire process, was vetted by the SCU. They did
a full analysis, and even with all of that, I
got the most hell I'd evergotten in my life. And
the reason is because everyone has their own expectations for
what this is and for what for the reality that
it is to them, Like we all have our own

(01:01:59):
experieneriences in this reality, so our expectations are all unique.
And when it comes to a topic that really has
no explanation, I mean, forget it the when you're talking
about the the it can lead to any and like
any outcome, I guess you could say that the possibilities

(01:02:19):
are endless. So when you have people coming forward with
stories or and they present proof, for example like Jake
and with this video, it's not ever going to be
enough because everyone's expectations are all different towards the subject
that no one knows anything about. So even if someone
comes with an actual legitimate biological body someone out.

Speaker 4 (01:02:43):
There is not going to be good.

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
It's not going to be good enough for them.

Speaker 12 (01:02:45):
It's unfortunate.

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
But that's literally the reality of what's happening with this subject.
And I don't see that ever changing, which is why
I kind of lean towards the fact that this is just.

Speaker 4 (01:02:58):
Really never going to be for every I think.

Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
Because there's always going to be someone who's not going
to be happy what you present.

Speaker 4 (01:03:04):
I think it could change.

Speaker 11 (01:03:05):
You know, we live in a day and age where
you can live stream frickin everything, So I always wonder
like if if these people are supposedly trying to make
free energy devices, build a lab and put some live
stream cameras in that shit, or if you're examining a
et little body thing like live stream the biopsies you
take and all of sort of that there's a lot

(01:03:26):
of trust that can be built with the Internet and
social media, and I just I don't know, I don't
know why people haven't taken the initiative to do those
kinds of things.

Speaker 3 (01:03:36):
Yeah, I think that's that's an elusive thing. The only
thing that I worry about with video streaming all this stuff,
sometimes I get paranoid. Didn't think, you know, all these
X problems I'm having, you know, really could be brigading
and people trying to shut me down because they don't

(01:03:58):
want me to have a voice here. Right, But if
you were to live stream the building of a free
energy device or the autopsy of an alien. I'm pretty
sure they could pull that stream and had an experience
tied to that video. People can go crazy about the

(01:04:20):
authenticity of whether it's a real UFO or not whatever,
But that's his video, Okay. The Knellis Air Force Base
UFO was out in the public for over a decade.
That was not sans video. He just had an interesting
story behind it. And that's where things get dangerous, because

(01:04:45):
you know, if I had credentials that said that I
worked at the Nellis Air Force Base, maybe I could
have been the one that came forward and had a
really interesting, provocative story about that video that's already been public.

Speaker 12 (01:05:00):
You see what I'm saying.

Speaker 15 (01:05:02):
It muddies the waters endlessly.

Speaker 3 (01:05:05):
Mm and it's slightly exploitative, you know if you think
about that. Andy and I traveled to Puerto Rico and
we met the guy that actually leaked the Aguadilla twenty
thirteen footage that was also in the public for over

(01:05:26):
a decade now, and we got to speak to the
person that handed that to the journalist in Puerto Rico
that that journalist took us up with this agent and
he did not want to be on camera. We had
to record his whole interview anonymously pretty much. And that

(01:05:51):
speaks to authenticity because that, again is a story where
there's a person that's doing something or altruistic. They noticed
a very anomalous event take place, they wanted the public
to know about it. They didn't create, you know, fame
for themselves. They actually don't want that, and I think

(01:06:14):
that's a more authentic you know, again, I'm not going
to get on Joe Rogan to talk about that shit.
I'm not like trying to. But you know, that story
is completely overlooked. But these stories are what gain all
the attention. And you know, I haven't had a phone

(01:06:38):
call with that guy since we were in Puerto Rico.
We had to constantly convince him to come meet with
us that night. And I'm not like on three hour
phone calls with this guy. And he's adding to that
story that he's been to the bottom of the Puerto
Rico Trench and seeing the alien base that this UAP

(01:06:59):
came from. Know, he did his part and he stepped away,
you know. And now that UAP video is being debunked
by former aerow director Sean Kirkpatrick is being a bird
in a Nova special and the New Arrow director calling
it a balloon, So.

Speaker 12 (01:07:22):
Who's right?

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
But anyways, I digress. I can't see hands. Andy, can
you kind of manage that? Or even Jordan Carlos stand
up for a while.

Speaker 8 (01:07:37):
Carlo, Hey, what's going on? Darcy?

Speaker 12 (01:07:42):
Yo?

Speaker 8 (01:07:43):
Well, thank you.

Speaker 16 (01:07:45):
I just ate gummies before in spring here and there,
and they're taking effect right now.

Speaker 4 (01:07:51):
So well, dude, enjoyed the field, one.

Speaker 12 (01:07:55):
Of those fields.

Speaker 16 (01:07:56):
But I wanted I wanted to say before before I forget,
before I delve into.

Speaker 8 (01:08:02):
La la land here.

Speaker 16 (01:08:05):
I am with you one hundred percent every single word
that you said today concerning the Sands situation. Unfortunately, you
know a lot of people who are hosting a lot
of spaces that should be hearing this aren't here.

Speaker 8 (01:08:22):
And that's part of the problem, isn't it that I
think it.

Speaker 16 (01:08:26):
Was earlier there was a space where I went to
a little bit and Sans was there and I just
listened for a few minutes and left.

Speaker 8 (01:08:36):
But I did catch that he said that he was.

Speaker 16 (01:08:40):
Something about attacked, and what he was referring to was
people questioning history as they should.

Speaker 6 (01:08:49):
That is not an attack.

Speaker 3 (01:08:51):
No, that is very far from it.

Speaker 16 (01:08:53):
And I also want to say to people here in Twitter,
I mean I personally feel that space is are evolving
a lot because they're becoming more and more eco chambers. Yeah,
echo chambers. It's just very strange. But you know, you
have to question yourself, ask yourself whether you know you're

(01:09:16):
going to be loyal to a person that you might
be friend. Here in Twitter, you know, spaces become you know,
the kind of public square where people just hang out
get you know, clicks form, and friendships are born and
loyalties right in some sense.

Speaker 8 (01:09:35):
And but when you you.

Speaker 16 (01:09:39):
Know, want to defend or believe somebody because they've become
your friend, that is very problematic. You have to ask
yourself whether they're going to be loyal to the truth
or to a person. And and those things don't necessarily
I mean they're they don't have to be mutually exclusive,

(01:10:00):
but you have to.

Speaker 8 (01:10:00):
Prepare it for the times that they will be.

Speaker 16 (01:10:04):
You can, like Jason Sends, you can be his friend,
but you also should ask yourself in that situation if
you are his friend, what kind of friend?

Speaker 3 (01:10:12):
Right?

Speaker 16 (01:10:14):
Just simply defending him just because you like him and
he's your friend is not reason enough to, you know,
chastise those who want to question him about the allegations
that he's brought forth.

Speaker 8 (01:10:29):
I'm empathetic to the man. I respect him.

Speaker 16 (01:10:32):
He's a fellow Air Force veteran, and you know, I'm
grateful for the time that he did serving this country.
But his allegations is something else, and that is something
that we all need to question. Whether you end up
believing him or not, that's on you. That's that's cool,
but at least show an effort in digging a little

(01:10:55):
bit more into the allegations of people, whether you like
him or not. And that includes that includes everybody, That
includes Barber, that includes Grouse, that includes Alizondo, that includes anybody.

Speaker 8 (01:11:08):
Be loyal to the truth.

Speaker 16 (01:11:09):
You know, growing up in the nineties, like everybody, I
love the X Files and I had a poster myself.

Speaker 8 (01:11:16):
You know, I want to believe.

Speaker 16 (01:11:18):
But let's not take that all too hard, because if
you want to believe in something, you're going to do
it blindly.

Speaker 8 (01:11:24):
You have to question everything.

Speaker 12 (01:11:26):
Man, And I just don't leeel out of that going around.

Speaker 6 (01:11:29):
I agree.

Speaker 3 (01:11:31):
I one hundred percent agree with you, brother. It's it's
becoming very tribal and you know, my public service to
this community is to say I've gotten things wrong in
the past, and I'm presenting documentaries now to try to

(01:11:52):
set the record straight about the facts on certain cases
and look like it's dangerous for them not to look
intening to them and see that they're becoming a tribe
member and not necessarily a seeker of the greater truth. Right.

(01:12:16):
And you know, I have had conflicts with all kinds
of people. I respect when somebody proves me wrong, because
then I grow as a person. But when you just
get in line with everybody else and you don't follow
your own logic and your own inner voice, that's the

(01:12:40):
worst thing you could ever do, because you're not living
your life. You're live in somebody else's dream. And this
will happen over and over and over and over again
in this community because it's the type of people that
are attracted to it. A we all want to believe.
We all have that sort of X five I was

(01:13:00):
poster in our minds. You know, we all are curious
about the greater truth and the concealment of certain data
from the public. You know, that's the conspiracy theorist in
all of us. We know that.

Speaker 6 (01:13:17):
Absolute power corrupts.

Speaker 3 (01:13:18):
Absolutely. We know that knowledge is power. I had a
girlfriend who said that to me. It was like the
most evil thing back in the day. Kind of turned
me on, but she said she didn't want to tell
me something. I was like why, and she was like,

(01:13:41):
because knowledge is power. And I was like, wow, did
you just say that to me? You know? And it's like,
I'm just trying to humanize this conversation to you guys
that that extends out into everything. So that's why we
are paranoid about politicians and defense and intelligence agencies that

(01:14:06):
may have power, they may have knowledge that the rest
of us don't. And this whole conspiracy land that we
live in attracts people that say I know the truth.
I can tell you the truth. Log into this website,

(01:14:29):
put in your credit card, and I'll give you the
rest of it, you know what I mean.

Speaker 12 (01:14:34):
Or buy a ticket to my.

Speaker 3 (01:14:36):
Show it's three hundred and thirty three dollars. If you
want to come for one day, it's one hundred and eleven.

Speaker 2 (01:14:45):
I'm glad you're bringing this up because it's I'm like,
probably one of the most difficult things, at least for
me in my experience with my reality with this whole
subject and you know, things that have happened to me
since I was younger and followed me throughout my entire life.

Speaker 3 (01:15:04):
It's probably even harder.

Speaker 2 (01:15:08):
For me now than it is for a non believer,
because to have been exposed to what I've seen from
up close and see how this is all unfolding, and
see all of the bicker and in fighting and all
these people coming out with fake stories, and to know
that what I saw was real, and to try and

(01:15:29):
get people to understand that at least my story is real.
You know how hard that is, bro It's it's it's
actually becoming me more difficult now than it's ever been
because I'm seeing all of this and I, at least
from my perspective, understand that what I saw was real,
and I know it was real, and there was no

(01:15:52):
you know, there's there's there's no there's no one that
could tell.

Speaker 6 (01:15:55):
Me different because of how I saw.

Speaker 8 (01:15:57):
Let me let me ask you a question.

Speaker 16 (01:15:59):
Can you prove to me do you have any evidence
of what happened to you?

Speaker 8 (01:16:04):
Happened?

Speaker 6 (01:16:06):
Absolutely not. That's why I I don't live.

Speaker 4 (01:16:10):
Based that. God is my point.

Speaker 8 (01:16:12):
I'm sorry. I'm sorry to interrupt you.

Speaker 16 (01:16:14):
But that is exactly a point that I also want
to make because there's a difference also, and this is
worth repeating again because I think we talked about this
in Darcy's last pace, which is there's a difference between
whistleblowers and witnesses. And you, Andy are a witness, as
am I. Something like you? You what happened to you?

Speaker 8 (01:16:34):
Happened to me too. I was. I was a little boy.

Speaker 16 (01:16:37):
But if somebody came to me and told me, do
I have evidence or anything?

Speaker 8 (01:16:41):
No, I have.

Speaker 16 (01:16:42):
I have an experience. At the end of the day,
it's just a story, but it was real to me.
It was an experience. I lived that, I saw it.
But a whistle blower is something different, So don't try
to learn the difference and don't conflate those two concepts.
I am a witness and he's a witness. A lot
of people are witnesses. Jason Sans might be one, but

(01:17:05):
whistleblower is something totally different. And if people keep interchanging
the using those words as the same thing is gonna
We're gonna.

Speaker 6 (01:17:14):
Get up and up.

Speaker 8 (01:17:15):
I'm sorry, the gummy is taking effect. We're gonna controve.

Speaker 2 (01:17:19):
Well, No, I mean, I agree, but I'm sure you
were on the space when Sands was on the last time.

Speaker 6 (01:17:23):
I mean, you heard how I.

Speaker 2 (01:17:24):
Got because I do understand that, and that's why I
got so passionate and upset, because it's like, there are
real people with real, legitimate experiences that they just could
not explain and have no explanation for. So when people
like that come out, we are looking at them and
we are hoping that they're being honest because we are

(01:17:45):
looking for answers for what we experienced understand.

Speaker 6 (01:17:49):
And that's why I got so upset.

Speaker 2 (01:17:52):
With this whole story that he was putting out there,
because it's like, buddy, like, I'm not fucking around when
I want to know that what you're saying is the truth,
because if you're lying, I want to find you now
and beat the shit out of you because I am
tired of it. I'm sick of it. I've already had
to live my life with this and struggle with this
and understand what the fuck I saw, why I saw it,

(01:18:14):
why it's been happening.

Speaker 6 (01:18:15):
To me my entire life.

Speaker 2 (01:18:17):
I can't prove it, but I don't give a shit
when anyone says because I know that My experiences were
one thousand percent real. There were no hallucinations, there were
no fucking I wasn't on no drugs.

Speaker 6 (01:18:29):
It was nothing but real.

Speaker 14 (01:18:31):
Understand So, and that that makes us the way I did.

Speaker 15 (01:18:35):
That's what makes us want to believe. And that's why
we're so you know, prone and vulnerable in this situation.
We understand what it's like to be to not be believed.
It's a really precarious situation.

Speaker 11 (01:18:50):
I mean, there's a lot of witnesses out there. There's millions,
if not hundreds of millions of people who've witness stuff
and for so long, for so long, they were called
crazy conspiracy theorist nuts. So there's a lot of people
that want that validation, and that's kind of what causes
them to so quick jump on any new story or
new new so called whistleblower witness it here. And like

(01:19:13):
the I like the distinction that we're making between these terms.
I mean, if we're trying to be fact based and
investigators of the UFO phenomena, we have to be really
technical and with these descriptive terms like witness experience or
whistleblower and uh, you know, not just this call, but
for months or years we've we've been picking apart the

(01:19:37):
whistleblowers and the whistleblower statements and the experiences and all
their stuff and ragging on them being skeptical, which is
good for some part, But I think some of the
blame also resides on the influencers. Like when I saw
I just came across Jason Sand's Julian Dorry show today
and I saw the Sunday Dory posted and it was

(01:19:59):
like most amazing areas if you one thing you've ever heard,
or something like that on the thumbnail, and there's so many, uh,
just the it's the clickbait nature of social media where
to get the views they gotta write the headline of
the post or and you've got so many people on
Twitter these days they'll put breaking emoji just in oh
my god, the whole post is all caps based off

(01:20:20):
something I don't know, Greer or whoever, David Wilcock, whoever
the heck said. So it's a part of the blame
rest on how this ship's reported by the people by us,
basically on social media, and it's there's so there's so
much just like sensationalism and all this.

Speaker 10 (01:20:39):
You're not gonna believe this.

Speaker 4 (01:20:40):
This is huge. Oh my god.

Speaker 11 (01:20:41):
I watched a video of Greer earlier and he's like,
you're not gonna sleep tonight when you hear this. Don't
fucking tell me what I'm gonna feel about what you're
gonna say that. That always gets me out when people
tell you how to feel about what they're gonna say.
Emotional priming. But so, yeah, anyway, I wanted to just
brant on that for a minute. I appreciate all you guys.
I gotta jump off, so thank all you guys for

(01:21:02):
being here and and all the words you've been saying
and everything. So I'm gonna head off and let some
others speakers speak.

Speaker 4 (01:21:09):
Thank you, you guys.

Speaker 3 (01:21:11):
Appreciate come back, come back another time, well especially post
New York. That'll that'll be fun.

Speaker 11 (01:21:17):
Oh yeah, let's do another spaces Chat in a in
a couple of weeks. I'm sure there'll be plenty that
develops till then.

Speaker 3 (01:21:23):
Yeah, we'll still want in New York. We are going
on uh camp get gagnon.

Speaker 4 (01:21:33):
Camp gag Yeah.

Speaker 15 (01:21:36):
Rules.

Speaker 3 (01:21:37):
Yeah, he wants to talk about Dark Alliance. And he's
a good guy. I mean, he's he portrays things very
ethically on his show, right. I I listened to his
uh Nixium podcast where he talked to the lawyer that
exposed these guys. I found it fascinating and his interview

(01:21:58):
style is hilarious, like he's a comedian. So we're looking
forward to that. Thanks so much for Jordan for stepping
up tonight. I think it's prudent and valid because this
guy was close to the Corey Good grift and he
knows how to identify this stuff right, and.

Speaker 10 (01:22:21):
I was way too close to the core Good grift.

Speaker 4 (01:22:24):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (01:22:26):
Yeah, So so we're we're gonna keep in touch. We'll
definitely get another big space going with him in the future,
and we'll get some other interesting stuff to talk about
for sure.

Speaker 6 (01:22:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 13 (01:22:40):
And I wanted to say kind of the same here
tonight too, DARCYA. So I got to head out to
his Unfortunately wake up stupid early every morning, so it's
past my bedtime. But I just want to say thanks
for the invite tonight. This is awesome conversation. You know,
just be able to be able to talk back and
forth about this. You know, some people believe, some people don't.
We can talk back and forth to pros and cons

(01:23:02):
and that should always be the idea. So I think
it's always good when everybody can do that.

Speaker 12 (01:23:08):
So happy to be a part of it. And yeah,
and you mentioned too about.

Speaker 13 (01:23:12):
The mayor earlier about an hour God something that stuck
in my head about the mayor in New Jersey who
was filming that playing said it was like the orb
of transforming. I'm gonna record with him tomorrow. Actually his
name is Michael Milham's mayor of Belleville, New Jersey. So
he's nice enough to accept an invite onto UAP, So

(01:23:35):
I'm gonna ask him about that and see.

Speaker 12 (01:23:37):
What he has to say.

Speaker 13 (01:23:38):
And obviously with the whole statement that came out yesterday,
he wasn't happy about the statement that the Trump administration
came out with. So it should be a pretty interesting
to get his view since he's kind of, you know,
write and think of it there in New Jersey.

Speaker 12 (01:23:52):
So I'm excited to hear what he has to say.

Speaker 3 (01:23:55):
Yeah, for people that hear this tomorrow on kg R,
we'll be posted as like a podcast. Definitely follow Stephen
Diner UAP Unidentified Alien Podcast. You can find it on
most of the streaming platforms. And he goes by at

(01:24:16):
UAP Podcast eight point fifty on Twitter. So yeah, thanks Ben, Yeah,
thanks for you.

Speaker 13 (01:24:25):
Hopefully we can come on again and have Yeah, thanky,
so we've got again.

Speaker 3 (01:24:36):
I'm flying blind. I've got this Michael Spratt guy asking
to come up and speak. I've I've when there's three
right now. Yeah, so you you delegate my friend.

Speaker 2 (01:24:47):
I think Bruce we'll go with him and then Becks
and the Machias or whatever.

Speaker 17 (01:24:56):
Bruce interesting space. I appreciate hearing from Jordan's shame he
had to bounce, but yeah, it's good say from him.
I agree with a lot of what he was saying.
I mean, I think that others here have said we
have a serious problem with the differentiation of people's roles,

(01:25:16):
and that you know, I said, like two three months ago,
I was saying, they're looking very eminently, we're going to
have too many whistleblowers. Like so I say, self clean
inside a whistleblowers and people won't even know what to
do with them. But yet we'll have no more objective evidence.
And that is exactly what's happened. We now are in
a situation where every week we're getting like two free

(01:25:37):
new people that are being considered as whistle blowers, or
at least as easiders.

Speaker 3 (01:25:42):
Again, what's your Twitter handle again?

Speaker 6 (01:25:46):
Yes?

Speaker 17 (01:25:46):
Some mine is geological setting.

Speaker 3 (01:25:50):
Yes, Okay.

Speaker 17 (01:25:55):
A couple of months and I was saying, look, you're
going to have so many of these people, and you
want what to do with them, And that's exactly what
we have now and every day. And you've probably seen this.
You know there's someone else, some former military or somebody
is saying that the oh, the other things are real,
and that is going to continue. But we really can't
consider these people whistleblowers. And then we can't. I mean,
first of all, if you think about it, even just

(01:26:17):
from a very conventional model of whistle blowing, like if
I said to you, I'm an airline whistleblower, the first
thing you'd want me to establish is what airline I
worked at, and I actually worked there, right before you've
got any information about what I'm saying. You know that
the plane is badly made. The thing is, we can't
even get that these people work in a project. We

(01:26:39):
can't even get that they did the jobs they say,
you know, not that there's evidence of it.

Speaker 8 (01:26:44):
Aliens forget that.

Speaker 12 (01:26:45):
We're not even getting to the bit that we can
establish it that the jobs.

Speaker 3 (01:26:49):
Yeah. I mean, like we see the DD two one
four for Jason that says that you.

Speaker 6 (01:26:55):
Worked in right in the Air Force or whatever in.

Speaker 3 (01:26:59):
The Air Force doesn't say he, you know, did hit
squad in downs and shit.

Speaker 17 (01:27:06):
Not not for any of the people that are being
called whistle blowers. So the best students say that they
may be insiders. I definitely can't call them whistleblowers, but
maybe insiders, but really they are. Again, experience witnesses are best.
And yet this conflation of turns is a massive problem
because you, like Jason, I said to him, you know,

(01:27:27):
if you'd come out and said, I'm an experiencer and
I believe that I have these memories that I think
I worked in this program, but maybe they were visions
or dreams.

Speaker 12 (01:27:37):
Because he's been honest.

Speaker 17 (01:27:38):
He said some of these things he's gone to bed
and then he's in a cape, you know what I mean.
So even he said, yes, some of this stuff, it
could be in some kind of dream state. I said, look, Jason,
if you'd come in and said I'm an experience to
you know, I've had these things, I think they're real,
the community would have had to set that a lot easier,
and you wouldn't have had all this grief because yes
we are again those crazy stories and all sorts of people.

Speaker 6 (01:27:59):
We get it.

Speaker 17 (01:27:59):
Some people have weird experiences, shamanic experiences for all the states.
You know, maybe you're really going into the aliens. But
there's people are positioning themselves inside whistleblowers. That's a much
bigger claim, and for that we do expect evidence. I
don't expect you to prove your UFO encounter or you
have in your bedroom, but if you say you worked
in an actual, real physical building, you know, with with

(01:28:22):
other agents, and you know, there's a point where you've
got to say, you're not going to show me the
letterhead from the freaking department you know nothing, right, So
it's totally unacceptable for us to think of these people
as whistlewers at this stage if they cannot even validate
the existence of the places they supposedly work, you know.
So I think that's going to be a minimum standard.

(01:28:43):
We have to start setting a minimum standard for evidence,
because I tell you what, the bar is getting lower
and lower and lower, and we're going to end up
flooded with people making amazing claims and none of them
are going to present a single bit of evidence they've
worked in the place they're saying right that that is
where we're at, and it's going to predict you. Now,

(01:29:04):
It's going to get a lot worse in the coming
weeks as everyone realizes anyone who's ever been an intelligence
job seen in military can claim that they were in
these things, that they've seen stuff. They can all do it.
That's all you need. That's yours your backdop, right, So
this is an enormous problem.

Speaker 13 (01:29:22):
Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry, man, I know I said my
goodbyes to everybody. But as soon as I and I
hate the origin in the conversation, but something's going down
here that's kind of kind of weird that I just
came across after I got off the space. There's this
like this, uh mid air collision situation over DC.

Speaker 12 (01:29:46):
Have you guys seen this?

Speaker 17 (01:29:47):
No, yeah, play the helicopter, Yeah there was as well.

Speaker 4 (01:29:54):
What happened.

Speaker 12 (01:29:55):
It's a really strange situation. The video is out right now.

Speaker 13 (01:29:58):
It just happened within the past hour that a passenger
plane caring about sixty people collide in midair with a
black Hawk helicopter. What my thought from the video it
looks like the Blacktowk helicopter like makes its way towards
the plane. I don't know how this happened. The video
is absolutely terrible and confusing at the same time. What's

(01:30:23):
strange about this is that there's rumors and these are
just rumors. I hate to report rumors when there's a
tragedy like this. But what people are trying to figure
out is who was on the Blackhawk helicopter because there's
some type rumors that might have been some type of
high ranking military official.

Speaker 12 (01:30:40):
Because of this something.

Speaker 13 (01:30:42):
They call the such a scandalous name, something they call
the doomsday plane, and it's they called that because it's
for like high ranking military officials or like really big
things that happened, And it was scrambled from Nebraska and
it's circling the area right now by DCA where this
crash happens. It's a really really strange situation that's taking

(01:31:02):
place right now.

Speaker 6 (01:31:04):
Wow, oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 (01:31:05):
Thanks. It definitely looks interesting.

Speaker 12 (01:31:09):
Yeah, right towards the brain.

Speaker 4 (01:31:10):
Yeah, that is.

Speaker 3 (01:31:14):
Wild. As soon as we get out of this space
and maybe if somebody could pop it pop up in
the bubble there, you know, the jumbo tron the news
that's been reported on it so far, that would be great,
that's insane. But off the back of what Bruce just said,
if you don't mind, Bruce, you know, I respect what

(01:31:37):
you said because that's the type of you know, deductive
reasoning and logic that we need to follow. You basically
described in Layman's terms, these people are doing. Trust me, bros.
Trust me bro I fought aliens. Trust me, bro I
saw a blue alien walking around the desert. Why would

(01:32:00):
the blue alien be wearing military fatigues? That just doesn't
make any sense to me. Looking for trientium okay, whatever,
great we're talking about like exotic rare earth metals or
something just like element one point fifteen. Like it's all

(01:32:21):
it's like, this story is just all going towards all
of these other well established conspiracy stories, and it's like
a mega you.

Speaker 6 (01:32:37):
Know, conglomerate of all those different.

Speaker 3 (01:32:41):
Elements in this testimony.

Speaker 6 (01:32:43):
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 15 (01:32:44):
Not only that, but I think Rins is saying that
there's kind of a lack of self awareness on Jason's
part when it comes to even the more outrageous stories,
where it's like, if you could just say that you
know that there's a more dreamlike element here people might
be more sympathetic.

Speaker 12 (01:33:00):
It doesn't even do that either.

Speaker 4 (01:33:02):
So yeah, there are.

Speaker 3 (01:33:08):
Experiencers out there that have had legitimate events happen to
them that may seem dream like. And and this is
where we're we have to be like, Okay, like something happened.
I'm gonna I'm gonna go with you on this journey.
You know, I'm gonna see where you're taking me with this.

(01:33:30):
But you're right. So Bruce, Uh, you know, can you
describe a bit about your background because you're a pretty
interesting guy. You've been on History Channel. Uh, you've covered
basically antiquity and ancient sort of mysteries regarding our human

(01:33:53):
evolution and possibly intervention with that. Am I right?

Speaker 17 (01:33:59):
Yep, fair, And I've covered most let's say, fringe or
anomalous topics over the years. I mean yeah, with a
particular focus on ancient mysteries and metaphysics and stuff, but
more recently back into the UFOs and aliens over the
last few years. So, I mean my background is that

(01:34:19):
I take I used to take a very believer role,
you know, I believe everybody and very open mind. Did
accept you know people's stories, but I mean, over the
last year definitely have taken a much more skeptical view
because I think at the end of the day, we
do need to see about what is objectively. You know,
what can we objectively show is very likely to be

(01:34:40):
true versus what is stories that may or may not
be but then we have no objective way to validate them.
That doesn't mean people are lying, but that's that's a
stance I'm taking. So like, I can accept that people
having very weird experiences. I've had real experiences, most people
in the space, I've had real experiences, but I won't
see to you, I'm going to try and argue you

(01:35:02):
my experiences are real, like because I know that I
don't have objective evidence, So like I would choose a
case like, for example, I'm working on a specific case
that has provided me objective evidence suggesting that alien contact
has happened and there's been intervention. But the thing is,
like Darsie, I will my argument is based on say,
specific anomally is in the DNA, A specific material that

(01:35:26):
I argue is part of a craft. So these are
things that you objectively could look at and say, Okay,
Bruce I don't necessarily agree with your argument, but I
can look at those things myself and come to a conclusion. Right,
So I think that we have to get these cases
where there's objective evidence that I can.

Speaker 12 (01:35:44):
Present to you.

Speaker 17 (01:35:45):
And that's why i'm very sort of, i suppose say,
quite tough on these claims that are coming out because
I'm aware that you can provide objective evidence fail in contact.
Because that's what I'm doing, right, So I make a
very skeptical role in terms of what's being said. That
doesn't mean I think all these people are lying, but
like for example, where Jake is, you know, heading up

(01:36:08):
to Skywatcher team, they're saying they will present us a
objective evidence to consider great, absolutely great, But in most
of the cases that is not what people are saying.
We've got people that are just counting on trust me, bro,
And we've now got dozens of these people that are
saying that they've been in the military, all sorts of
different branches the intelligence community, and they're all, right, now,

(01:36:28):
I'm trust me, bro, and that for me is not
good enough. Like because you know, saying, with ancient mystery
and stuff, I can't just say to you that I
wrote a book on rewriting out of Africa. Okay, south
of Africa is a core dogma in paleonanthropology. So you
can't just say you're all wrong, you know. I had
to go through all of the papers, make my arguments
on the genetics, on the tools, on all of this stuff. Right,

(01:36:51):
so you can say, well, now I've got this collection
of evidence saying that you're wrong. And look, you can
look at all my evidence. You can go to all
my sources, you know, and I have to be able
to make a kind of a detailed argument. I feel
that has to be the same for whether you're talking
about psychic powers, whether it's about aliens, whether you're talking
about UFOs, you know, whatever it is. There has to

(01:37:12):
be a point where we say, we understand those people
who've got no evidence does in their line, but they've
got no evidence. But let's pick those cases where we
can present strong evidence based things and support them, you know,
sort of support calendar and project support, you know what
Jake's doing, anything like that, But be very very careful
on the rest of what we're getting pushed to believe

(01:37:34):
based on emotions and people said relationships and good marketing
and branding and stuff that that's not good enough to
move this conversation forward in a good way. And I
don't like the idea that we're just kind of diverge
away from objective reality, where it's just to accept all
of these stories, you know, whether it's giant mounted buying
people or whatever, and to say this is all real,

(01:37:56):
you know, because it all fits these stories that we've
all heard, you know, as pointing out before. It's like
all of these narratives that we're aware of as suddenly
getting put to the forefront and we're supposed to just
abnorb them are all as being objectively true. I think
that's very risky and psychologically risky because you have to
have some kind of I think, a self defense to
your mind space that you know, because some of this

(01:38:18):
stuff is going to be rubbish, right, So how do
you differentiate if there's nothing being presented to you. That's
why I think is in the last comment I say
is I think people should have the self awareness to say, like,
if I say to you, I've had these experiences, but Darcy,
I don't expect you to believe them, because I've got
no evidence. But in my personal opinion, this happened to me,
and I believe it. That's fair if I say that,

(01:38:41):
you know, if I try to convince you you should
believe it on what grounds? On what grounds should I
try and make you believe stuff I can't show you
any evidence for That's why I don't like it's not
having that self awareness that people are still expecting us
to treat it as that they've actually provided us some evidence.
We can all, you know, look at that and think
about that.

Speaker 6 (01:39:01):
Yeah, you can.

Speaker 3 (01:39:02):
You could always bring up other buzzing topics in the
community when you're speaking on your experience to try and
prove it right. Isn't that an interesting tactic?

Speaker 6 (01:39:12):
Like I'll talk.

Speaker 3 (01:39:12):
About how radar took down UFOs back in the day.
We all heard that before, Oh that came up today.
I'll talk about trinium, you know that is this material
that people have alleged might be some kind of you know, powering,

(01:39:33):
you know, energy behind powering these things.

Speaker 6 (01:39:36):
I'll bring up abductions.

Speaker 3 (01:39:38):
You know, and say I was abducted. This is how
you build a drift. And I am sorry, but that's
how I view it. And people are going to be
out there in their little signal and ex chat groups,
people that called me their friend, and they are going

(01:40:02):
to be incessantly spamming each other and high fiving each
other that Darcy is a fucking you know, informant or
a bad guy, or he's you know, misleading the public.
You know, he's he's one of the bad guys now
because he's not down with our whistle war insider. I'm sorry, guys,

(01:40:23):
that's just not how it works. And time will tell.
You will see in twelve months, maybe twenty four months,
however long it takes for you to start to unpack
this yourself instead of you know, glomming onto it and
high fiving everybody in the crowd. You know, it's the

(01:40:45):
wolves prey on the sheep. They wait for the sheep
to be vulnerable and then they feast. And I'm sorry,
but that's the way it looks like this is going down.
And there's got to be a reason why people like
James Fox is stepping up and saying, hey, that's a

(01:41:08):
credibility killer if he goes on the record on Julian
Dorry stating that, and I will agree with Jordan say there,
you know, I'm I think I'm friends with Julian Dorry.
I don't know who's my friend these days. I'm just joking.
I know who my friends are. But you know, Julian
uh posts no shocking Area fifty one. You know it

(01:41:31):
is misleading because the thumbnail is like promoting this person,
and then for somebody who's devout me following that person
to begin with, they just have to see that thumbnail
and they get that hysterical reinforcement that they're about to
watch something that's completely true. Right, Whereas if you look

(01:41:54):
at Julian Dorry's public statement after he finished recording with
Jason Sands on Twitter, he said, I don't believe a
single thing that this man said to me. That's okay,
it was an emotional conversation. I support people, I want
them to speak their truth, but I don't believe anything
he said. So there's that dichotomy, and that's where like

(01:42:18):
influencers have an opportunity here to try and express the
greatest truth that protects the minds of more people out there.
But that's just not the way it goes. It's just
getting amplified, it's getting blown up, it's getting more popular
than ever, and it's scary in my opinion. Now, Bruce

(01:42:39):
just one more thing back to you. If there's something
that you researched in the past, you know as a scientist,
what thing do you think you've provided the most data
for that you could say at this point is objectively true,
just as compare truth.

Speaker 17 (01:43:00):
I mean, particularly in this field, in the kind of
aliens field, I would say is.

Speaker 3 (01:43:05):
That it doesn't have to be. It can be, you know,
completely on archaeology, you know, geology, whatever.

Speaker 17 (01:43:14):
The HAPs all right, I'd say probably the abstually strongest
argument that's come out my work, which is would be
a big deal, is revising the recent out of Africa
theory to show that very convincingly that the modern human
beginnings are down in Southeast Asia, East Asia and Australasia

(01:43:37):
with a migration towards Europe and Africa, so basically reversing
that story. So that's in my book The Forgotten Exodus
the into Africa Theory of Human Evolutions, which Graham Hancock
kind of wrote sort of glowing forward to and stuff.
Is the arguments in there, probably i'd say, is the
most iron clad and evidence based. But in terms of

(01:43:59):
frequenting to the alien I'd say it's that my argument
for Australasian tech tides being parts of, at the least
of an interstellar object that I obviously my argument is
not just an interstellar object, that it's a technological object.
But I would say that the paper I wrote on
that is I'd say, very very convincing that it's definitely

(01:44:19):
at the very least it's from anomalous interstellar object that
should not have been in orbit around this planet when
it broke up. But as my argument is technological, so
that I have a paper on research Gate that people
can read in which I make that argument, it's been
I've had feedback for a couple of tech experts and

(01:44:39):
no one's going to say, like, yeah, Brigs, we agree
it's an alien ship. I've had them say, yes, it's
really interesting paper. But you know, a couple of people
sort of comment on that very favorably, So yeah, that's
pretty cool. So I would say, yeah, that's the probably
the argument that's the strongest and very jumping off that
the most popular argument I make, the ones that I
sput most people be interested in, is the genetic engineering.

(01:45:02):
Because let's be honest, if you talk to most of
the let's most influential voices in the UFO or engine
aliens field. At some point they all seem to say
that they suspect that there's been genetic engineering of human ancestors. Right,
it is a quite popular idea. Now I'm the only
person who is making that argument with specific anomalies in

(01:45:26):
the geno appointing to them and dating them to this
particular event which aligns with the debris from this other object.
So it's all dated to seven engine eighty eight thousand
years ago. So I make a very strong case for
the engineering because it's not just me saying, you know,
the Crimson iiO, which has been a popular one for
a long time, but that a range of specific anomalies

(01:45:49):
in encoding DNA which are not explained by evolutionary science,
a free d genome folding event that's not explained, and
also a range of deletions in the code, like to
be honest, like technical things that are recognized today as
being totally anomalous in the genomics field, which align with

(01:46:09):
my argument that there's been genetic engineering. Now, if you
go to anyone else in this field and say who's
talked about the idea? So like Tom DeLong, people that
have said, you know that they think this has happened,
you will find that they do not provide you with
a suitable technical argument. That they may be offer you
one piece of evidence that is woefully insufficient to suggest

(01:46:32):
that our origins involve aliens. And you have to be
able to compile a very strong argument to make someone
take that seriously. And so that's another place where I'd
say that my work is particularly stands out, is that
there's no one else that's making that solidity of argument
in the genetics.

Speaker 3 (01:46:52):
That's very cool. I appreciate you, know, your ability to
communicate these fringe ideas but try and back them up
with facts and data that could allude to certain truths there.
And I appreciate that. I mean, we're I started off
this space just going on a rant and talking about

(01:47:16):
how the ufone community and humans in general we clamor
around campfires. We've been doing it for probably hundreds of
thousands of years if Homo sapiens showed up around two
hundred thousand years ago. So it's a survival technique to

(01:47:39):
light a fire, to remain warm, to see each other
in the dark. And while you're doing this, tell a story.
And I think it's in our DNA to tell each
other campfire stories until we're you know, traveling the stars.
I think it's just something we will always have it

(01:48:01):
in us to tell sensational stories. And the UFO community,
the Bigfoot community, the you know you name it QAnon
that they all crypto, the crypto community, people tell campfire
stories in one way or another. We are telling a

(01:48:22):
story to keep each other awake, to keep each other aware.
You know, it's like a survival technique. Somebody's got to
watch guard overnight. Maybe two guys do, so they tell
the stories back and forth where the rest of the
tribe sleeps. That's I think we are always going to
have people telling a story. And when we can provide

(01:48:46):
data and facts behind these stories, that's when these cases
become more concrete. And I just will see that.

Speaker 17 (01:48:55):
Yeah, I'm going to say, yeah, I mean, so you're
right that it's an evolutionary issue, you because this is
we are hardwired for those stories, and that this is
like even usually psychology is telling us we're hardwired to
do stories.

Speaker 7 (01:49:08):
We are not.

Speaker 17 (01:49:09):
Evolved to have scientific critical thinking. We're not because, as
you point it, if you think about it, in the past,
I had well, we would have to rely on the
word of the hunter that we met in the words
telling us that's a bear. In the case, we wouldn't
have done an analysis and investigation. We'd have just thought,
is he trustworthy? I don't get him by a bear,
and we would had to just decide it, or we'd

(01:49:29):
had to have tortured him and made sure that we
believed it. And that's what we had, you know, was
believing people, you know, torturing them, you know, do we
trust them? We had that for like maybe a million
years or so since we've been had to talk, and
then now very recently we developed the scientific effort. Nobody
has evolved to actually trust that. You know, you have
to make yourself have scientific thinking and so it's totally

(01:49:52):
alien to human beings to insist on objective evidence. And
that's why it's it's something everyone has to force yourselves.
If you want to move beyond trust me my own stories,
that is, that's not going to happen as we actually
say to myselves, I'm going to do it. And that's
why I was saying to you it. I used to
believe with these things like everyone else, you have to
inside Actually, if I want to take this beyond to

(01:50:13):
go against your own psychology and say, you know what,
I'm actually going to force myself to use critical thinking, objectivity,
you know, skepticism, scientific method to go forward. Otherwise you
will always be yeah, we're all just really a hunter gatherer,
you know soon, you know, I mean, we haven't evolved
to suddenly be super technical.

Speaker 3 (01:50:33):
I agree.

Speaker 6 (01:50:35):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:50:36):
One of the things that you could say about, let's
say a hunter warning us that there's a bear up
ahead in the cave. Paranoia, said sin, and you're going
to trust to that grow so that you survive another day.
But you may come across that cave in the future

(01:50:57):
and realize there's no bear there, but you do something
out of a sort of survival instinctual perspective. And that's
what happens when people glom on and believe these things
and throw away deductive reasoning because they're still instinctual about

(01:51:19):
this thing. They think that the people who are telling
these stories are real heroes.

Speaker 6 (01:51:24):
They're like, oh, my.

Speaker 12 (01:51:25):
God, thank you so much for speaking your truth.

Speaker 6 (01:51:28):
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I hate when people
do that shit.

Speaker 3 (01:51:33):
Oh sorry, it's okay, all right, I think we've spoken
quite a bit. Let's go to another hand Andy, sorry, Bex,
and then Diamond it's not bes there? Hey, yeah, yeah,

(01:51:59):
can hear you? Welcome?

Speaker 18 (01:52:01):
Awesome, thank you. I've got so much to say.

Speaker 3 (01:52:07):
It's unpacket.

Speaker 18 (01:52:10):
Yeah, let's unpack it.

Speaker 19 (01:52:11):
First of all, you said before that you're welcomed people
to challenge it. Ar Sie, get a lover. I'm going
to get a lot of respect, I think. So there's
so many things. Let me try and just work through this, Okay.
First of all, I think we have to think deeply.

Speaker 18 (01:52:34):
About what it is that we're trying to solve.

Speaker 19 (01:52:36):
With the issues that we're all raising independently, that we're
bringing instead of complaining, there's things that we can do
to mitigate. You know, more than half of what I'm hearing,
and a lot of those are grounded in psychology, but
a lot of them are also grounded in critical thinking
and self We're talking about self awareness, like that doesn't

(01:52:59):
just apply to us judging whistle blowers or experiences coming forward.

Speaker 20 (01:53:07):
First of all, it's looking at ourselves. So what are
our biases? What are we bringing to this situation? You know,
to make us have a certain attitude, Like.

Speaker 12 (01:53:19):
Who wasn't speaking before?

Speaker 3 (01:53:24):
It's his name?

Speaker 12 (01:53:25):
I think it was Jordan.

Speaker 1 (01:53:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 18 (01:53:29):
To me, what I was hearing, I wasn't hearing. I
was hearing an overview of all of.

Speaker 19 (01:53:36):
His issues that he has with it, but not any
detail as to what his measures are, as to why
he's come to that. I heard a lot of attitude
in his in his thinking, and.

Speaker 21 (01:53:47):
Dustie, I'm hearing a lot of bias in your experience
because of what you went through with Good like applying
like going back to say to Jordan, you know back
then you supported them and you did those things.

Speaker 19 (01:54:02):
So therefore now here we are with with.

Speaker 18 (01:54:05):
Sands, and we're doing the same thing. So therefore that
to me, that's a fallacy.

Speaker 3 (01:54:10):
That's not something that fallacy.

Speaker 18 (01:54:14):
It's a fallacy.

Speaker 3 (01:54:14):
But when you know other people exploit and have in
the past, they can't do it now.

Speaker 19 (01:54:22):
No, to say that that's how, that's how he was
back then with Good, right, that doesn't apply to Sands.
We have to look at it independently. It's it's not
something that's valid. Let's look at Sands independently about his story.
And another thing too, I just want to point out
really quickly, he didn't.

Speaker 18 (01:54:40):
Say it was a blue alien.

Speaker 19 (01:54:41):
He said it had a blueish tinge like it looked
like it was cold or something.

Speaker 18 (01:54:46):
So just keep that in mind as well.

Speaker 6 (01:54:48):
But can you.

Speaker 3 (01:54:49):
See something doing?

Speaker 8 (01:54:50):
Yeah, go ahead, Andy, So back, Sam, I have a question.

Speaker 17 (01:54:54):
What about scenes is making you believe that he's doing
the truth?

Speaker 3 (01:54:58):
Yeah? What has convinced you to the core that this
is all the true story?

Speaker 17 (01:55:06):
That question is to you, becks, that's my question to you, BECs.
I guess she was going to answer.

Speaker 3 (01:55:20):
I guess it's a fallacy. I mean that's her opinion, right.
Maybe she'll come to a different real realization later, or
maybe she'll stick with that opinion the rest of her life.
I don't know, but I respect her for coming up
and speaking it.

Speaker 12 (01:55:39):
Next, she's still on.

Speaker 18 (01:55:44):
My mind went off, Sorry, my mind went off. I
don't know why.

Speaker 3 (01:55:51):
So what what is convinced the core that this person.

Speaker 18 (01:55:56):
Isn't isn't a fellacy?

Speaker 19 (01:55:58):
This is a fellacy vice in philosophical fallacy. This is
something that is learned in you know, the foundations of
the scientific method is philosophy.

Speaker 18 (01:56:08):
So so applying that is is not. Let me give
some let me give some options of what we can do,
just to show something that is a stronger way of developing.
I guess our strength of knowing that we can assess
a person.

Speaker 3 (01:56:28):
So I think.

Speaker 19 (01:56:31):
We have to think deeply about what we're trying to
solve with the issues that we're raising right today. And
I think that instead of kind of complaining about a
lot of stuff, that we can.

Speaker 18 (01:56:41):
Bring our own sense of agency so we can empower
ourselves to look at what it is you know that
we're trying to solve, and that with testimonials.

Speaker 19 (01:56:52):
You know, there's things around credibility, reliability of witnesses, sincerity,
you know those things strautal.

Speaker 4 (01:56:58):
Mind Like, well, mean, Adam, hold, I don't.

Speaker 12 (01:57:02):
Want to cut you off with you.

Speaker 2 (01:57:04):
You haven't answered the question though I asked you about
you personally, like like your your yourself about s Jason
Sand's story, What do you feel as made you believe
in what he's saying.

Speaker 19 (01:57:19):
I never said that I believed in what you were saying.
That's you've just created that and I haven't said that
at all.

Speaker 13 (01:57:24):
Well, that's a game that's resintely not I'm just using it.

Speaker 3 (01:57:30):
That's your grape is that we're complaining. It sounds like no, No,
my grape.

Speaker 19 (01:57:35):
Is that I'm one. I'm not being heard because I
just just let me. I've got a bit to get out,
so let me just get it out. Like this is late, right,
So like Einstein said, if you had an hour to
solo problem and his life depended on it, that he
has spent the first fifty five minutes determining the proper
question to ask. So we're questioning you know, this is flowers,

(01:58:00):
but what are we asking the right questions? And you know,
this is where like the psychology can offer so much
power that isn't being utilized in these stories by interviewers
and things like because.

Speaker 18 (01:58:16):
The proper questions.

Speaker 19 (01:58:17):
Aren't aren't being answered, and we're not solving our problems,
which is like how do we get around sincerity, credibility,
reliability of what witness is the saying I heard people.

Speaker 18 (01:58:29):
Saying, hang on, I'm just grugg ag drink.

Speaker 19 (01:58:32):
I have people saying they've got an issue with the
story being the same, the same story keeps coming up.

Speaker 18 (01:58:40):
I don't understand how that is an issue because repeatability
is important.

Speaker 3 (01:58:48):
But what the point is there, just so you understand
before you go forward, and I'll let you finish, is
that when you drift like a surefire way to grift
is to take elements of stories that have been told
before and incorporate that into your story so that people

(01:59:11):
believe and can empathize with you in a greater way.
So we're worried that this is a grift. That this
is and grifters are real. Grifters do this in religious communities,
they do it inside.

Speaker 19 (01:59:27):
I know grifting is real, but we have real ways
to be able to identify them. That's That's what I'm
trying to get across. That's what I'm trying to say.
That's what I'm trying to get to. So there's a
multiple ways. Okay, So I'll give example. So it was

(01:59:48):
his name John?

Speaker 18 (01:59:50):
Who was I haven't I haven't got fully up to date.
I haven't watched a full video of Jake.

Speaker 3 (01:59:57):
But who was?

Speaker 18 (01:59:57):
Who was the third video?

Speaker 12 (02:00:00):
That is his name?

Speaker 3 (02:00:01):
John Barber?

Speaker 18 (02:00:03):
Now no, hang on, I think his name is John.

Speaker 3 (02:00:08):
Is that right?

Speaker 18 (02:00:11):
And I've got it written down somewhere here John blitch
kind of.

Speaker 6 (02:00:16):
Yes.

Speaker 18 (02:00:17):
So okay, so there's a couple of things. I just
want to give it as examples.

Speaker 22 (02:00:22):
So, so he gave a lot of detail, a lot
of detail in his story, like he's probably really high
on like openness scale, right, So this isn't a judgment,
this is an observation.

Speaker 19 (02:00:37):
This is a great thing. I mean, the fact that
he gave so much detail into his story adds a
lot of information as such a positive thing because the
truth is in the details of information.

Speaker 18 (02:00:48):
It's a nuanced story. He gave it nuance therefore alliance
with sincerity.

Speaker 19 (02:00:52):
Which is the problem that we're trying to solve, because
someone fabricating will overlook the details.

Speaker 18 (02:00:58):
They won't share nuances because it's not something.

Speaker 19 (02:01:00):
That they have actually been through to develop nuances. So
and they're more inclined to give a chronological story or
some instructured story, not a story that kind of jumps
around a bit and you know, like they can get lost,
and that he got lost a couple of times.

Speaker 18 (02:01:18):
I did have criticism criticisms of.

Speaker 19 (02:01:20):
Him as well, but that was that was definitely something
that made me feel secure in the story that he
was telling.

Speaker 18 (02:01:28):
I didn't like how many times he referenced his book
that that just turned me off, But that's I just
I didn't like that.

Speaker 8 (02:01:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 19 (02:01:37):
Instead of just saying like, oh you can I wrote
in my book this, he could have just said what
the answer was instead of I think he did it
three times with referencing his book and that turned me off.
But the story, I really really felt secure in all
the details and nuances that he gave.

Speaker 3 (02:01:52):
Sure, So nuance is a great word. It gets thrown
around a lot.

Speaker 6 (02:01:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:01:59):
I have a friend to spend a lot of his
time these days on the hill, and I call it
nuance boy, because when we have an argument about something
that is black and white, it's either true or false.
He throws out the words nuance, and I think it's
thrown around too much.

Speaker 18 (02:02:18):
But nuance is is he using that to win an
argument with you?

Speaker 19 (02:02:22):
Because yeah, I mean I'm talking about people that are
telling stories and stories.

Speaker 18 (02:02:27):
That are nuanced, you know.

Speaker 3 (02:02:29):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, look, look I I from my
perspective when it comes to John Blitch's story and how
he's referencing his book. I mean, Bruce Fenton was just
up here and he's saying, you know, I compiled data
and if you want to read that argument, it's in
my book, you know. So I understand why John Blitch
would want to point towards that source. You know, some

(02:02:51):
people would say, oh, maybe he's just trying to sell
a book, but or he's trying to say, look, the
argument is laid out in order for you to understand
it even better if you look at the book.

Speaker 19 (02:03:03):
I would I would prefer that he would offer up
that sarna or explain that, you know, so that's just
something that's something that will give me more trust in him, that.

Speaker 18 (02:03:10):
That was just something that put me off. It's not enough.

Speaker 19 (02:03:13):
His story was so nuanced and and everything like that.
So I found that quite credible. No, I found it
since sincere.

Speaker 18 (02:03:22):
Another issue.

Speaker 12 (02:03:24):
I think backs Darcy has been respectful. He is trying
to move on.

Speaker 6 (02:03:29):
I'm not sure if you've done No.

Speaker 18 (02:03:31):
No, I don't think that is trying to move on.
I think that I'm a I'm a woman in this
male dominated community. I don't have a voice.

Speaker 6 (02:03:42):
Hands up.

Speaker 12 (02:03:43):
I'm just letting you know, right, I want to hear it.

Speaker 18 (02:03:46):
I'm going to try and give like. I'm going to
try and give like. I have a really strong.

Speaker 19 (02:03:51):
Background in psychology. It's my qualification, my profession. There's there's
so much, there's so much with and gain from it
and empower ourselves instead of like, instead of like saying
all these things.

Speaker 18 (02:04:06):
That I've heard today, we can rub out about.

Speaker 19 (02:04:09):
Fifty percent of the issues that people had by using
some of the tools that are grounded in understanding understanding
whether someone's credible about observing behavior.

Speaker 18 (02:04:20):
So I think it's really important.

Speaker 23 (02:04:22):
But yeah, in terms do you see any psychological behavior
being like.

Speaker 3 (02:04:35):
You know, demonstrated in the testimony from grifters or people
that might be taking advantage.

Speaker 19 (02:04:42):
Oh, someone mentioned before that was very insightful of them that.

Speaker 18 (02:04:47):
They're just going to give you the story.

Speaker 19 (02:04:48):
They're not going to try and convince you, you know,
like action trying to convince everyone that his video, you.

Speaker 18 (02:04:54):
Know, is is genuine.

Speaker 19 (02:04:57):
That's an issue like kind of behaviors where he's tagging
in everyone is jumping in like public figures tweets that
aren't even about him and making it about him, and
it's you know, in terms of like people that need attention,
it's it's you know, narcissism. So it's like like they

(02:05:20):
have intentioncy behaves, but they also want to like get
emotions out of people as well.

Speaker 18 (02:05:25):
They fuel themselves with that. So it's and people aren't
as delusional.

Speaker 3 (02:05:28):
As you think. People know what they're.

Speaker 18 (02:05:30):
Doing, Like we a lot of the times we can't
understand what they're doing.

Speaker 19 (02:05:33):
So we think that they're delusional, but they do it intentionally,
you know, for for attention.

Speaker 3 (02:05:39):
So are you saying that that's like to feed a
narcissistic need to be heard or something. Yeah, yeah, okay.

Speaker 18 (02:05:47):
It's called narcissistic supply. Yeah, it's extension plus emotion.

Speaker 12 (02:05:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 18 (02:05:52):
So also hysteria, that's something that's something that is experienced.
It's like like something that we experienced through through anxiety
or fear. It's not it's not something that we're elated
with it.

Speaker 19 (02:06:09):
It's definitely got a fear and anxiety elements to think of,
Like like what happens with with when people were were
told that they're witches, you know and burn that was.

Speaker 13 (02:06:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 19 (02:06:26):
Yeah, so you're using that term really loosely.

Speaker 18 (02:06:29):
So a lot of people.

Speaker 3 (02:06:32):
You know, I feel like I get witch hunted every
time I feel public because people disagree with my I.

Speaker 18 (02:06:40):
Don't think you should worry about it.

Speaker 19 (02:06:42):
I just think that you should just care about all
of that, you know, other people think.

Speaker 2 (02:06:51):
I don't want to cut you off back, but we're
gonna have to go to the next speaker.

Speaker 18 (02:06:54):
Okay, have a lot of other stuff to offer it.

Speaker 12 (02:06:58):
No, it was great.

Speaker 3 (02:06:59):
Thanks for jumping it up.

Speaker 18 (02:07:01):
What much more great self to share about.

Speaker 3 (02:07:03):
Thanks, that's really next time up in a bit, jump
up in a bit. Let's just go to the next
hand and then Andy take over for a second.

Speaker 9 (02:07:10):
My dog's begging to go out, so I'm gonna do
that while we have a next speaker.

Speaker 8 (02:07:15):
Yeah, I apologize, Beck says.

Speaker 9 (02:07:17):
I know that Diamond's also had her hand up for
a very long time, so I just want to give
an opportunity to talk.

Speaker 24 (02:07:26):
Hey everyone, Diamond here, Hey guys, So you know, I
was just hearing everybody, and I just want to say,
you know, thank you for everyone to come on here
and to you know, discuss yeah, everything that's currently going on.

Speaker 12 (02:07:40):
I watched Joe Rogan's.

Speaker 24 (02:07:41):
Episode today with with Jason Sands, and I forget the general,
the other gentleman's name, the one who's the creator phenomenon,
but Box.

Speaker 6 (02:07:52):
Yes, I was also of the mind that I was
also of the mind that.

Speaker 24 (02:07:59):
Doesn't believe that Jason Says is telling the truth. There
were certain moments in his story him recollecting his memories
where it seemed like he was just making it up
on the spot and there. But then there was another
moment I don't know if anyone has brought this up
or talked about it. But towards the end of the episode,

(02:08:20):
Joe Rogan asks him, ask both of them, actually how
many et races there are? And they go a bit
down the list. You know, they mentioned the Nordics, they
mentioned the Grades, they mentioned the Tall Grays, And this
is where I'm like, Okay, is this bs or is
he actually telling the truth? He mentioned the Reptilians, and

(02:08:41):
I've been I've known the Reptilians since I was in
high school. You know, you get the Internet sometimes you
go onto website's like Fortune and you see all these.

Speaker 6 (02:08:49):
Types of threads, you know, them talking about all this stuff.
You become new to it.

Speaker 24 (02:08:53):
But it was really interesting to me what he said
in regard to the Reptilians when he that they have
a thirst for human blood and that our blood is
almost like a drug to them, that it gives them
you for you, and he just kept it was so
easy for him to talk about these things. But on

(02:09:14):
other things he was like, no, I can't discuss that.
And that's where for me personally, I'm like teetering between
is he telling.

Speaker 4 (02:09:22):
The truth or is he lying?

Speaker 24 (02:09:24):
Because on some things he can discuss and other things
he can discuss.

Speaker 6 (02:09:27):
But to all, besides that point, Sorry I'm jumping around.

Speaker 12 (02:09:32):
But besides that point, to everyone who has experienced.

Speaker 24 (02:09:34):
Something, I believe you because I've also seen shit, and
I've also seen things that you know, you can't really
explain it to somebody unless they are in your shoes,
unless they are witnessing what you are seeing. I had
an incident not too long ago, I think a month
or two months ago, where I was outside my car

(02:09:58):
and I noticed two black helicopters flying in close proximity
of one another over the mountains, and I recorded it.

Speaker 6 (02:10:06):
I have that on footage. I have that footage, and I.

Speaker 24 (02:10:10):
Thought that was the weirdest thing because to me, that
usually spells UFO activity.

Speaker 6 (02:10:15):
You know, you see it in the movies, you see.

Speaker 24 (02:10:17):
It on X files. That to me was a red flag.
But when I was walking back to my house, I
went grabbed my dog and you know, took him for
a little walkouts like ten use the restroom. I don't
know what it was, but something told me to just
look up. And I looked up and oh my god,

(02:10:41):
I've never felt a fear like this. I've never felt fear.
I'm like literally getting chilled just thinking about it. I've
never felt fear this way before. But I saw I'm
not gonna call it a UFO because it didn't look
like a UFO, but I saw something in the air
that was like, how can I describe it?

Speaker 3 (02:11:03):
It was shimmering.

Speaker 6 (02:11:05):
It was silver, kind of gray, and it was just
spinning just in the air.

Speaker 12 (02:11:12):
It wasn't moving in the wind.

Speaker 6 (02:11:14):
Nothing was moving it.

Speaker 24 (02:11:15):
It was just still in the air and it wasn't
there when I saw the helicopters. It looked like it
just appeared after they had left.

Speaker 6 (02:11:24):
And I know this is.

Speaker 24 (02:11:25):
Real because there was a little girl throwing out trash
for her parents, one of my neighbors, and I looked
at her. I was like, I told her in Spanish
and I was like, oh yeah, Mi daia and.

Speaker 4 (02:11:35):
She looks up and she's like, oh wow, what is that?

Speaker 24 (02:11:38):
And my heart, my stomach sank. I thought I was
gonna faint. I was like, oh shit, what is going on?
And I needed the confirm it once more. And there's
usually a neighbor who sits outside right here in front
of where I live, and I saw him.

Speaker 6 (02:11:54):
I'm like, dude, are you seeing that? And he looks
up and he's like, oh shit, what is that?

Speaker 24 (02:11:59):
And he's just staring at it, And instantly fear overtook
me and I ran into my house. I was like, no,
I'm not staring at this. But I did the one
thing that I knew I should do or else nobody
was wanting to believe me, and it was to record it.
And I have footage of this thing.

Speaker 17 (02:12:19):
I have.

Speaker 24 (02:12:20):
I guess I can't really call it clear footage because
when I zoomed in, this shimmering object wasn't registering on
the camera, but it's literally there, and I know this
is real. I know this really happened because I facetimed
my wife and my wife was really scared because she
knew that I had been into this topic recently. But

(02:12:42):
I showed her and I zoomed in on the FaceTime
and she was like, what is that? And I'm like,
I don't know, but it's literally huggering your house. And
I went aside, I hid out of fear, okay, because
I understand what people how, I understand what certain experiences say,
how they feel fear, they feel like they're not in control.

Speaker 6 (02:13:02):
Well, I believe that.

Speaker 24 (02:13:04):
I believe that it's a very primal response to something
that you're not you're not used to seeing every day.

Speaker 6 (02:13:13):
That's a real natural response.

Speaker 3 (02:13:15):
And you're just gonna say not that you know something
that we don't see. It's just something that's not technically supposed.

Speaker 2 (02:13:21):
To exist, supposed to be even real. That's that's the
part that that's the shocking part of it.

Speaker 12 (02:13:26):
But go on, yes, thank you.

Speaker 6 (02:13:28):
That's that. That's the shock that I received them.

Speaker 4 (02:13:30):
Like, holy moly.

Speaker 24 (02:13:32):
And the weirdest part is, Okay, the weirdest part is
that I was listening to one of Jaquesva's interviews where
he guess, yes, thank you, Jaquva, Yes.

Speaker 12 (02:13:42):
Thank you, where he was saying that he believes.

Speaker 24 (02:13:45):
That this is linked to consciousness, that these entities will
show themselves to people at any given moment if they
wanted to, and to me, And I'm like, is that
what happened? Because I didn't experience missing time. I didn't
experience any I didn't experience anything that Jake Barber said
how it spoke to him when he, you know, he
retrieved the ape.

Speaker 12 (02:14:05):
I didn't experience anything of that.

Speaker 24 (02:14:06):
I experienced a shock and a fear because I didn't
know what I was looking at. It wasn't there in
the sky when I was walking out the first time.
The fact that it was even near me made me
really worried, so finish.

Speaker 12 (02:14:23):
Sorry, sorry, sorry, It's just.

Speaker 6 (02:14:24):
That there's a lot of like, there's a lot.

Speaker 24 (02:14:28):
Of push right now that I've noticed, like from the
Stephen Greer camp, that they want people to try CE five.
Please don't do that shit. Like I'm not trying to
say if you've done that shit and you've had successful contact, congratulations,
I'm happy for you. But this is something that I
don't think people should fuck with. I don't think people
should mess with these types of things because you're inviting

(02:14:49):
something that you're not one hundred percent sure of yourself,
And why would you want to do that to yourself? Well,
why are they trying to push this so hard? People
can develop, you know, hardcore mental health issues if they
encounter something they're not used to seeing. And that's one
thing that I really have a problem with right now.

(02:15:12):
With everything you know, obviously there's whistle blurs coming out,
like I expect Jay Barber on the next episode of
Joe Rogan either tomorrow or.

Speaker 12 (02:15:18):
Next week, maybe he'll be plugging a book.

Speaker 6 (02:15:22):
That's another thing too.

Speaker 24 (02:15:23):
When I heard Jason Sam say that, he's like, oh, yeah,
I'm writing a book, I'm like, oh, there we go.

Speaker 6 (02:15:26):
That's when I wrote my eyes. I was about to
turn it.

Speaker 24 (02:15:28):
Off, but I think what they are doing and this
is just like an idea. They're trying to use everyone's
renowned interest in this against everyone.

Speaker 4 (02:15:42):
And I just.

Speaker 3 (02:15:44):
Keep the plane there, Bud. That's that's a good way.

Speaker 6 (02:15:48):
I want to. I want to.

Speaker 2 (02:15:48):
I want to say this before before it goes off.
I'm actually really glad that you're experienced, that you're expressing
this and that you just basically stated, you know, like
don't do it, because if you're a perfect example of
something that I've me and Darcy. I've always mentioned this
to Darcy. I've said it many times in different talks.

(02:16:10):
That is the exact thing that I'm talking about when
I say that everyone is asking for this, everyone is
claiming that they're ready, but you're a perfect example of
not everybody's ready.

Speaker 14 (02:16:23):
Because when you see nobody, nobody is ready.

Speaker 6 (02:16:26):
Nobody is ready. I don't give a damn who you are.
You can have the biggest balls anywhere you are not
ready for this year, but you are not ready for
that shock that you are going to do exactly. Nobody
is ready for it. And I hate I hate people
who are.

Speaker 24 (02:16:40):
Like, oh, you're just looking at it with a negative perspective.
Uh No, it's not a negative perspective. This is something
that is a damn shock to your core. This is
something This is like if you walked outside and you
saw a damn lion out there.

Speaker 6 (02:16:54):
No, but you know it's a predator leave me.

Speaker 11 (02:16:56):
I know.

Speaker 6 (02:16:58):
That's why I'm That's why I'm actually glad that that.

Speaker 2 (02:17:00):
I'm hearing you say that, because that's what I mean, Like,
I know exactly what you're feeling. I've felt it from
what I've experienced. And it's a unique perspective that people
who have not experienced this have you understand, Like, yeah,
we get to for at least for I'm going to
speak based off of my experience.

Speaker 6 (02:17:22):
My perspectives are unique.

Speaker 2 (02:17:24):
When I have discussions with Darcy or other people who
have not had these interactions or at least experiences in
that manner, it's a unique perspective because you were exposed
to this legitimately, it's a real thing that you were
exposed to and that shock actually opens and exposes your

(02:17:45):
mind to a reality that many people are not exposed to.

Speaker 12 (02:17:49):
So now your way.

Speaker 2 (02:17:50):
Of thinking and your way of viewing reality has changed,
is no longer the same, It's absolutely different.

Speaker 6 (02:17:57):
Nothing makes sense.

Speaker 2 (02:17:58):
So your perspective now, when you're speaking on the subject
and when you're approaching it and studying it and looking
at all angles, is absolutely different than everybody else's because
of the fact you were exposed to it, you understand.
That's why I always say, and I will continue saying it,
that some people do have the ability to experience this

(02:18:21):
and walk out of it okay, but there's a lot.

Speaker 6 (02:18:24):
Of people who don't because of the shock, because of
the fact that.

Speaker 2 (02:18:28):
This what they just saw, where you saw, what I saw,
what Carlos has seen, is real.

Speaker 12 (02:18:34):
You understand.

Speaker 2 (02:18:35):
It was real, and it's been told to you your
whole life. It's not, but there was in front of you.
You understand. And I've known other people who have gone
through a very dark road after their experience who never
recovered from it. That's why I say, I don't care,
like you just said, I don't get a shit what
anyone wants to say that they're ready. You're not fucking
ready because the moment that shit appears to you in person,

(02:18:59):
physically in don't you you will ship your fucking pants
because it is something that is completely out of your reality.

Speaker 13 (02:19:07):
A men, A men?

Speaker 6 (02:19:10):
And okay, And this is another problem that I have
that I noticed.

Speaker 24 (02:19:13):
I don't know if anyone goes on our aliens or
our nhi whatever the damn.

Speaker 6 (02:19:17):
I noticed that.

Speaker 4 (02:19:18):
There's there's a certain there's.

Speaker 6 (02:19:20):
An agenda on Reddit, at least in those subreddits.

Speaker 24 (02:19:23):
Okay, they want to push this as like a positive experience.

Speaker 6 (02:19:26):
Okay. They want people to.

Speaker 24 (02:19:28):
Believe that our breath are are our friends from up there,
and the stars give hood about us. You know, they're
coming to save the planet, They're coming to bring us
into the Galactic Federation, et cetera. Should have like that
is not the case at all. No, that is not
the case at odd. They do not care about us
in the least.

Speaker 3 (02:19:47):
I actually heard in the past couple of days that
Career made a statement that there's going to be an
Asian but we should accept it and like accept them.
And I'm thinking, like, is this for real? Is he
telling everybody to face down?

Speaker 4 (02:20:07):
Ass up?

Speaker 3 (02:20:07):
But naked take it or what?

Speaker 13 (02:20:13):
I laugh?

Speaker 24 (02:20:14):
I laugh because it's like that's such a real possibility
to give them like abduction stories and how they've described
what's happened to them. It's like, we could be potentially
powerless against these other people.

Speaker 6 (02:20:26):
I'm calling them people because.

Speaker 24 (02:20:27):
If they're if they really if they're just entities, then
their entities.

Speaker 12 (02:20:30):
But if they're really people from.

Speaker 24 (02:20:31):
Space coming to attack us, well, you know, like what
did we do to piss them off?

Speaker 6 (02:20:38):
But that's what did we What did we do to
make ourselves noticed? Is what I'm wondering. Because another thing too,
It's like when I saw that thing in the.

Speaker 24 (02:20:47):
Sky, I was worried about my mental health after that,
I was worried that I was gonna go insane. So
I had to really like calm myself down, and I
didn't suppress it. I'm talking about it now and I
know it existed. I know it's real because I had
the footage of it. I have footage of it.

Speaker 3 (02:21:05):
I have it's your Twitter handle that.

Speaker 24 (02:21:09):
Oh well, this one is just my dragon Ball account.
Shout out to dragon Ball. But anyway, what is it?
But no, I do have it's Daima Kyushin but I'm
gonna be making I do have a YouTube channel that's
caught ever an.

Speaker 6 (02:21:24):
Anomaly I think. Yeah, sorry, I'm just trying to remember
the name.

Speaker 24 (02:21:30):
But no, I have footage of this thing and it
can't be a coincidence, you know, like why.

Speaker 6 (02:21:39):
No, yeah, for sure, man, maybe we can get in contact.
I'll send you the file of it.

Speaker 24 (02:21:43):
It's just look, look, man, I look, I don't think
anyone should try or see five.

Speaker 6 (02:21:50):
Don't listen to that man. Do not listen to that man,
grifter or not. He is selling you something really bad awesome?

Speaker 3 (02:22:00):
Are there other hands?

Speaker 2 (02:22:04):
Uh, Michael, I believe rat, But I'm would send me
a message later.

Speaker 12 (02:22:09):
I'd like to take a look at that video.

Speaker 8 (02:22:12):
No, no, yeah, for sure, I'll send you guys a message.

Speaker 24 (02:22:14):
But I just the last thing I do want to
say is that, look, we don't know what's happening now
right now in the Earth. It seems to be that
there is a movement, not movement, but there is movement
with these nhis. I'm just calling people at antasies, aliens
or whatever, but there there is an there is something
interesting going on instead of the usual you know, the

(02:22:35):
grays that everyone's talked about they're starting to talk about
the reptilians. They're starting to talk about the mantids or
the manticor manids.

Speaker 3 (02:22:43):
They've been talked about for decades.

Speaker 24 (02:22:46):
But the thing is, but the thing is, they're trying
to bring this into the public light. Now, back then,
you would have heard somebody talking about this and you'd
be like, dude, you're kind.

Speaker 12 (02:22:54):
Of schizophe like you believe that stuff.

Speaker 24 (02:22:57):
But now these people like Jason Sans are trying to
tell the public.

Speaker 6 (02:23:00):
Like, yeah, these things are real. And you know what,
the people.

Speaker 24 (02:23:04):
Who listen to stuff like that without taking a step
back and be like all right, I'm gonna just like
I'm gonna listen to what he says and.

Speaker 6 (02:23:11):
Then do my own research. People don't do their own research.
They just follow.

Speaker 24 (02:23:14):
Blindly whatever people are saying, because they have credible backgrounds.

Speaker 6 (02:23:18):
They were in this and that and what you said
earlier about like, oh, thank you for your bravery. Oh
you can get my ass with that crap.

Speaker 24 (02:23:25):
Everyone everyone I've seen on the UFO Twitter saying that
to all these new whistle words, Oh you're so brave.

Speaker 6 (02:23:32):
For coming out and talking about your experience.

Speaker 24 (02:23:34):
Oh my god, you're amazing has it ever occurred to
anyone that maybe that's the point that they're picking out
people just for them to talk about didn't like they
didn't I.

Speaker 8 (02:23:48):
Twice.

Speaker 3 (02:23:50):
Okay, we'll get to you, buddy, but let's go to
Michael next. I think you made a very valid point.

Speaker 6 (02:23:57):
We'll move on though.

Speaker 3 (02:23:58):
Keep in touch.

Speaker 24 (02:24:00):
Thanks, yeah, well.

Speaker 3 (02:24:04):
Thanks for the mic Gussie.

Speaker 25 (02:24:07):
Look, I I guess if you want to put a
libel on me, I'm an experience and experience since I
guess that's five five years old side, I'm sixteen.

Speaker 3 (02:24:22):
But where are you from? Are you in the New
South Wales area? Yes, I'm did you? Were you ever
friends with Marlee? When was it she passed away? Recently?
She had like the New South Wales UFO group. When
I lived in Australia, I was there. I was meetings

(02:24:44):
and I met Damien Demian not at that and interviewed him.
He's been in my doc one of my documentaries in
the past. Anyways, go ahead, Michael.

Speaker 25 (02:24:57):
Sorry, yeah, I'm pretty well kicked to my but you
know when I experienced that. So I was born in Australia,
but my father was a navy pilot and in the
Royal Australian Navy and then he was lent to the
Royal Navy for his last three years in the service.

Speaker 3 (02:25:17):
In the late sixties.

Speaker 25 (02:25:19):
And so my experience has happened in the North of
Scotland and I had, you know, quite a few of
them and then and they really traumatized me, and no
one understood what I was talking about with.

Speaker 3 (02:25:34):
These guys with big ants and black eyes.

Speaker 4 (02:25:37):
And you know, and.

Speaker 25 (02:25:40):
Then I blocked it out. So from the age of
six to thirty six, I didn't remember a dream. And
then I saw Whitness Strooper's book Communion, and I saw
the you know, it had a figure of a gray
on the cover, and then I realized.

Speaker 3 (02:25:58):
That someone else had seen seen the same same light.

Speaker 25 (02:26:02):
And then I rationalized that, you know, it was it
was really my own feme more than anything else, because
I was still there and you know, physically arms fine,
So you know, I take on board. You know, the
prior discussion is that you really just don't know how
you going to manage your own fear when you're dealing

(02:26:22):
with it. But I mean, since then, I've had a
lot more engagements with all sorts of different things, and
all the dreams have come back and how of body
experiences and anyway, you know, all the stuff you can't prove.
So I went down another track and I looked at
I went and didner honest in psychology and you know,

(02:26:43):
sum of a PhD in the area of cognitive psychology
and neuroscience, and tried to get an understanding of how
this might work in terms of consciousness and the mind
body connections. So I've got quite and evolved under dating.
I guess above most people in terms of that respect.
So that's kind of the path I've gone down, and

(02:27:08):
you know, to go on sort of what Bruce was
saying earlier. You know, I've sort of built my views
up on building a body of collaborating evidence that would incommodate.

Speaker 3 (02:27:19):
You know, accommodate your experience.

Speaker 4 (02:27:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 25 (02:27:23):
So so you know, for example, I think a lot
of this is other dimensional, and that you're actually leaving
the body and having engagements that way. I think there
are some probably physical ones as well, but you know,
I think there's a dimensional aspect to it.

Speaker 3 (02:27:41):
And you know, I've been shown that in my meditations.

Speaker 25 (02:27:45):
And and and I and I think also you know
the other thing that's really interesting with science is that
you know, often some of the great leaps in science
been delivered through dreams. You know, when one of the
classics is Mendel mendelev dreamt the periodic table and how

(02:28:06):
to set it out not so well kind of supported,
but they're kind of rumors that Einstone ed a dream
were going out and the sleigh into space and all
of the things that happened on display in.

Speaker 3 (02:28:22):
Trying about like precognition and sort of like connecting to
some kind of collective consciousness that they get these downloads
from exactly. So yeah, I mean that's part of my
experience as well.

Speaker 25 (02:28:37):
So the other thing I found that's really fascinating lescently
is the telepathy tapes because I spent fifteen years working
with people with disabilities and people that.

Speaker 3 (02:28:49):
Were non verbal. Yeah, so not to verbals, but they
used to come to me in my dreams, you know,
share up as well. So it was I'm a pan
of temps. Really well done. And again the way that
they presented that is the tried clinical testing of it.

(02:29:11):
You know, they had the iPads and had people separated
and you know they recorded the results and that's amazing. Yeah.

Speaker 25 (02:29:20):
The bigger picture to me in the whole ufo Et
thing is the consciousness connection, and I think the telepathy
tapes is a big aspect to that. You know, if
you've listened to them, then you've heard the section where
they discussed the hill. You know, I've had similar experiences

(02:29:41):
with that with Tibetan monks. No, no, but yes, like
the hill, but with the Tibetan monks. So I've had
an involvement with the Tibetan monks for about thirty years.
And you know a couple of times I've had dreams
or I've gone into a pre hale in the dream
and you know, had had discussions with the monks in

(02:30:02):
that kind of lucid dream state. So you know, I
think that's a possibility where you get a group of
connected consciousnesses from one of a better terms that can
connect in a non linear fashion. So anyway, I entertained
all those possibilities. I look at the I've looked a

(02:30:25):
lot at So my area of research.

Speaker 3 (02:30:29):
Was in in what's called selective visual intentions.

Speaker 25 (02:30:34):
So I look at how a thought integrates with the
visual stimulus and how we manipulate that. And then I'm
interested in what's called the binding problem.

Speaker 3 (02:30:45):
So how do we how.

Speaker 25 (02:30:47):
Do we get our attitude bring neurons to work seamlessly
to give us this you know, smooth conscious experience, and
you know, neural pathways doesn't really cut it because it
doesn't bring it altogether. So there's a real argument that
this electromagnetic field associated with with the body is actually

(02:31:07):
the mind orchestrating in the organic matter of the physical body.

Speaker 3 (02:31:12):
And I mean, I won't go into it now, but
I can go into great.

Speaker 25 (02:31:14):
Detail on how that works and what cognitive modes are
operating on what frequencies and stuff like that. So you know,
there's science behind all of this sort of stuff, and
it's you know, if you're if it's someone that has
experiences like me, then you get kind of heads up
on what kind of directions to go and what what

(02:31:36):
sort of research to look at. So anyway, when I
go into these spaces I'm trying to kind of push
a broader view on what we're looking at rather than
just trying to find proof of a crashed spaceship.

Speaker 3 (02:31:55):
Cool. I appreciate that, and you know, I'm open to
all this stuff too, and I'm very much of the
same mind that I want to see facts and data
when it comes to this because it's already you know,
relegated to the superstitious and money tune realm by the

(02:32:17):
mainstream rate. So the more we can present critical thinking
and proper data to back certain claims and evidence to
certain things that are possibly going on, the better. Thanks
for popping up.

Speaker 6 (02:32:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 25 (02:32:36):
I just one thing I'd like to add is, you know,
we have a real problem too on you know, gatekeepers
in terms of what sort of research gets published. And
you know, there's you will see in science that people
will develop a career on, you know, defending a position.

Speaker 6 (02:32:58):
You know.

Speaker 3 (02:32:59):
So for example, like Elizabeth Loftus has spent a whole.

Speaker 25 (02:33:02):
Year on the way you can manipulate memories and and
so in an area that's heavily debated, like reconstruction memory
versus we covered memory. So she's like.

Speaker 3 (02:33:18):
Like false memory syndrome.

Speaker 25 (02:33:20):
Yeah, exactly, so, and of course it ties in with
the the experiences stuff because you know, you know, for example,
in that area because memory is.

Speaker 3 (02:33:35):
A big part of this.

Speaker 25 (02:33:38):
Under high trauma, there's an anatomical structure in the hippocampus
that produces cortisos so it basically kills neurons and and
it's sort of it's a general kind of mechanism for
working memories, so your working memory doesn't get getting floated up.

(02:33:58):
So there's two receptors there, one of the cortisole, one
that metabolizes it, and so it's just generally keeping your
working memory at a certain sort of threshold. And then
it's sort of you know, you let go of that
working memory thing. But what happens under high trauma is
it gets flooded with cortisole and it damages that area

(02:34:21):
of the hippocampus over a longer period. And what's interesting
is it's one of I think only three years that
has naturally occurring totem cells. So it means over a
period of time you can recover a memory, but it's
you know, it's it takes the sort of.

Speaker 3 (02:34:45):
Triggers or whatever to kind of bring it back to
the form. It's a bit like remembering the dream.

Speaker 25 (02:34:50):
You know, if you have something that takes you know,
coincides with the dream you have the night before, then
all of a sudden you remember it. Whereas you know,
if you don't get that, then you don't retrieve it.
So there's an interesting role in kind of encoding the
initial experience and then and then the retrieval process.

Speaker 3 (02:35:12):
So again, anyway, I won't.

Speaker 25 (02:35:16):
Get into too detail, but it is an example of
you know, so people that are arguing that you can
recover a memory through therapy, we'll say, well, you know,
there's this anatomical mechanism that vouches for it, and most
people when they have it just comes flooding out and
it's released. Where someone like Elizabeth Loftus will say, well,

(02:35:38):
with the wrong sort of questioning style and whenever you
can create memories and you know, some of it might
try into want that is an experience, but then they'll
they'll get the details wrong because they want to, you know,
keep the question happy so that you know, they're going

(02:35:59):
to titled their responses to be in line with the
kind of the questioning. So that's right, that's the good
stuff that kind of out of Elizabeth Floftu's work is
how lady questions can really destroy witnesses testimony or experiences testimony. Anyway,

(02:36:21):
that's a Pixar trek from shore.

Speaker 3 (02:36:22):
Sorry, no, I appreciate that perspective. Yeah, she to a
lot of mainstream eufologists and stuff. They would call her
like a debunker or something because it competed with the
abductees you know, memory of their event and you know,

(02:36:43):
the hypnosis process, and they'll say, oh, well, that's just
false memory because they were led there by the you know,
by the hypnotist or by the questioner in that session.
So yeah, that area, I know what you're saying. It's

(02:37:04):
like it helps us like understand that could be a
possibility with certain people, but for other people just comes
flooding forward. They don't have to really pry it out,
and you know, it's not all the same.

Speaker 25 (02:37:20):
And that's that's a classic example though of you know,
both sides are right. Yeah, you know, and there's certain
circumstances where there are clear examples of leading questions corrupting
the testimony, and there are also you know, good examples
of memories coming flooding out with you know, collaborating evidence
of you know, usually this is with child abuse victims

(02:37:44):
of you know, sexual abuse, and usually they've got you know,
collaborating records, medical records. So you know, it's pretty clear
that you've got those two ends to expect FRUM.

Speaker 3 (02:37:55):
The question is.

Speaker 25 (02:37:57):
Getting the variables so that you know where you are
or that you know on that continuum, and that's that's
what's annoying, is that you'll get something like Elizabeth Loftusho's
done something great like that, but she won't accept anything
other than you know, it's it's false testimony or you know,
restructured memory as she calls it, whereas you know there

(02:38:20):
is evidence for the other side as well, plus as
a anatomical mechanism that accommodates it.

Speaker 3 (02:38:26):
So you know that, And I guess it's just an example.

Speaker 25 (02:38:30):
Of how, you know, we've got to bring that kind
of level of thinking into spaces like this when you're
dealing with those sort of topics.

Speaker 3 (02:38:40):
It's not black and white, it's got to be shades
are great. Yeah, both sides can be right, and you know,
I appreciate that perspective for sure. There's value in you know,
proving something wrong and proving something right and backing that
talker with some kind of facts. You know, I gotta

(02:39:03):
I think I'm gonna close this down unless there's like
one other hand. I can't really see right now because
my Space's app is really buggy. But if anybody wants
to speak next, speak now, or I'm closing it down.

Speaker 12 (02:39:20):
Thanks Darcy. Yeah, can I say a little bit here.

Speaker 3 (02:39:23):
Sure it's up Kimball.

Speaker 26 (02:39:25):
So man, No, I just I apologize earlier. I actually
really love this format you're doing, Darcy. It seems like
every speaker gets around, you know, like ten fifteen minutes
to kind of go back and forth with you, and.

Speaker 3 (02:39:42):
No, what's Booty saying? She disagrees with that?

Speaker 12 (02:39:49):
Booty carl or Carlos Carlos.

Speaker 3 (02:39:53):
Okay, so what are you saying?

Speaker 1 (02:39:56):
What?

Speaker 3 (02:39:59):
No?

Speaker 26 (02:40:00):
I just I really like the format you got going.
So just earlier, I apologize that. You know, I actually
agreed with a lot of what Beck's was saying. She
seemed to go for a while, and maybe I read
the room wrong, but I yeah, I think she was
saying some really important things.

Speaker 3 (02:40:18):
She was I think so too. I don't know if
she's still here, she's walcome to come up and speak
more to it.

Speaker 26 (02:40:25):
But yeah, yeah, you know, sorry, I just that was
really she made some solid points as far as experiencers go.

Speaker 8 (02:40:35):
Look, guys, like.

Speaker 12 (02:40:39):
We we talked to each other in spaces.

Speaker 6 (02:40:40):
Here quite a bit.

Speaker 26 (02:40:42):
And I don't want to like overstate this, but I've
met Darcy in person and he's like a really friendly
seem to be trustworthy guy. He's only ever treated me
with respect, you know, if I remember correctly, and as
someone who interviews sperience, there's a lot I think this
has been a really like thoughtful, mature and like actually

(02:41:06):
nuanced conversation. So I really, Darcy, this has been awesome.
I have a lot more to say, but I want
to be sensitive too. It seems like you may want
to wrap up the space so they go leave it
with that.

Speaker 12 (02:41:17):
I don't know.

Speaker 6 (02:41:17):
Okay, that was very numan. You can finish whatever else
you need to say.

Speaker 3 (02:41:22):
It's fine, I appreciate you, Kimball, It's fine, all right.

Speaker 26 (02:41:29):
No, I just I mean, there's a lot of really
good ideas that have been shared here, and I just
want to say, I don't know. I I talked to
Samsy in that first space that he was in. Rob
Wood let me co host that, and I tried to
do my best at like facilitating a really good open

(02:41:50):
conversation and letting people up and you know, just facilitating
the whole space. And I I just have a whole
bunch of thoughts on that. I think, you know, maybe
the next day, definitely within that week, I was expressing
skepticism about Sands space or sorry, Sand's story, Jason Sand's story,

(02:42:12):
and I'm not to say that, I don't I don't
know not to say that it like he was lying.

Speaker 4 (02:42:20):
I don't think careful.

Speaker 3 (02:42:23):
You don't want to end up on the wrong side.

Speaker 26 (02:42:25):
No, I'm I'm very confident in the same in your lane.

Speaker 12 (02:42:30):
There's people listening right now that might be taking clips.
Maybe Darcy can tell you who's listening. Darcy, I can't see.

Speaker 3 (02:42:40):
My app is so broken right now. All I can
see is look.

Speaker 26 (02:42:44):
All I'm saying is we need to we need to
normalize being a skeptical believer. Right, Like, I believe these
people's stories. I don't think they're lying, And I really
there have been a couple of people maybe that I've
talked to that I'm like, are they making this up
for attention or for money or whatever?

Speaker 6 (02:43:04):
But by and large, I.

Speaker 12 (02:43:05):
Don't think people are lying.

Speaker 26 (02:43:08):
But I'm still skeptical about basically every story that I hear, right,
and I think that needs to be normalized. We we
kind of put everything you're either a true believer or
you're a debunker, and it's like no, like we can
there is some middle ground, some nuance right to be
explored and it's real, and I appreciate this space for
that reason.

Speaker 3 (02:43:28):
I can I ask you two questions, Kimble. You know,
you know honesty is the best policy.

Speaker 4 (02:43:35):
I hope I'm wrong, but I'd love.

Speaker 3 (02:43:39):
To just get your clarity on this. I heard through
a friend that you're also friends with, that that space
was planned as an actual viral marketing technique to start
promoting the program.

Speaker 6 (02:43:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 26 (02:43:56):
So my honest response is that I also heard that
same thing. It was a while ago that I heard that,
and I would I would have to do some pretty
serious leg work to try and track down who and
when I heard that from I did hear that.

Speaker 6 (02:44:14):
I don't know if it's true.

Speaker 3 (02:44:15):
Pretty brilliant, right, because now two people from that film
have been on Joe Rogan. The film has made over
a million dollars in the past two months. I mean,
it's pretty brilliant. You get that viral. You know, everybody's
talking about this guy, everybody's talking about this thing, so

(02:44:37):
we got to see the movie. Is going to be
in that movie?

Speaker 6 (02:44:39):
Right?

Speaker 26 (02:44:40):
No, yeah, I'll play right in their games. I'm not
exactly sure what you're fering too. But so, who are
the two people from that documentary that were on Joe.

Speaker 3 (02:44:49):
Rogan, limbll Logan, Logan and Jason Sands and James Fox.
So two separate episodes.

Speaker 12 (02:45:00):
So that's three, right, but kind yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:45:03):
Two dedicated programs on Joe Rogan basically what I'm saying.

Speaker 26 (02:45:08):
Right, James Fox and then Logan and Sands today. Yeah,
but at the same time, right, sort.

Speaker 3 (02:45:15):
Of the I don't know, go ahead. I don't know
if that was all part of the planning for launching
the doc Like starting with that viral space that you
and Astral hosted. I jumped in there and asked for
clarification on the twenty and back program, uh, like I
saw it go down, you know, and then I started

(02:45:38):
hearing through friends who were connected to you that that
was actually part of a marketing campaign.

Speaker 12 (02:45:45):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 26 (02:45:47):
So just to be clear, that was Rob Wood space, right,
So Astra and I love most of that.

Speaker 6 (02:45:53):
Yeah, Okay, we got to get props to Rob Wood.

Speaker 26 (02:45:57):
Okay, probably pay list, but no, I mean there there
could be something to that.

Speaker 6 (02:46:04):
I kind of doubt it.

Speaker 26 (02:46:06):
Just you know, remember the way that Jason.

Speaker 12 (02:46:09):
Came out and said what he said, and.

Speaker 26 (02:46:13):
Even the timing of when he said what he said
apparently didn't really serve James Fox's purposes as far as
like ROI you know, and but you know, maybe that
was all calculated and they wanted controversy about what Jason
Sands was going to say right after the documentary came out, Right,

(02:46:34):
I kind of doubt it, But that's kind of the
direction you're going. Like James Fox wasn't I mean, if
we're to take him as authentic, he wasn't really pleased
with the way that Jason Sands came out and said
what he said, right.

Speaker 6 (02:46:50):
It appears that way.

Speaker 3 (02:46:53):
Anyway. It just I did hear that theory at one point.
I can't remember who, but it seemed like a stretch
to me. Okay, but you know, we can talk more.

Speaker 6 (02:47:05):
There's a lot.

Speaker 26 (02:47:08):
All that you and I can talk about, but I
don't know, I.

Speaker 3 (02:47:13):
How did you feel it was like a book coming.

Speaker 26 (02:47:21):
Oh man? And see this is this is getting into
something that how do you say your name?

Speaker 12 (02:47:26):
Damon?

Speaker 26 (02:47:27):
That guy who was up here earlier daymonicon that he
was saying that I did did resonate with me as well.
I think the whistle the term whistleblower has a pretty
like liberal like the definition of that word is not
as like refined as people think, right, Like there's a

(02:47:50):
legal constitutional definition of the term whistleblower, but then there's
like a more Carmen parlance semantic definition use of it
in use.

Speaker 12 (02:48:05):
Yeah, conversation doesn't necessarily.

Speaker 26 (02:48:07):
Have to be calling out on unconstitutional activity going on
within the US government.

Speaker 12 (02:48:15):
You know.

Speaker 16 (02:48:16):
You Okay, Carlos, I'm having a hard time following you, Kimball.

Speaker 26 (02:48:24):
Uh So, Darthy just brought up something that reminded me
of what Damon whatever his dema con said.

Speaker 3 (02:48:31):
Yeah, that I'm trying to connect. The point is part
of the planning.

Speaker 6 (02:48:36):
Right.

Speaker 12 (02:48:39):
Rogan, No, you mean Sands shilling a.

Speaker 3 (02:48:42):
Book well on Joe Rogan, Sands had mentioned I haven't
even watched the interview yet. I saw clips of it.

Speaker 26 (02:48:50):
Uh yeah, well no, this Sorry, I'm trying to make
a nuanced point. I thought I would have capacity and
airtime to do that. I know Carlos is a little
butt hurt over something I don't know. But the point
is is what Daimon was saying is like, I think

(02:49:10):
we need to talk about what a whistleblower is, even
but even then embracing them with open arms, right and
thanking them for you know, you would think it would
be a sacrifice, like, why are we thinking these whistleblowers?

Speaker 12 (02:49:25):
Right?

Speaker 26 (02:49:25):
If we end up if we find out they're full
of shit, do we need to be like kissing their
ass sort of thing? Okay, right, and there's the whole
conversation there to be had.

Speaker 6 (02:49:38):
I just there needs to be some.

Speaker 26 (02:49:42):
Actual sacrifice that's being done for us to really say that, right,
and that would be more like the legal term of
a whistle blower.

Speaker 3 (02:49:51):
I agreed. Well, thanks for popping up there, brother. Could
you hear your voice. If there's anybody else who like
to speak, I think I think that's just jumped up
like two seconds ago. That's was there something you wanted
to mention before.

Speaker 12 (02:50:08):
I close it down?

Speaker 18 (02:50:12):
Yeah, I'll talk to you privately about it, all right,
it's cool?

Speaker 6 (02:50:15):
Yeah?

Speaker 18 (02:50:16):
No, not really, No.

Speaker 3 (02:50:19):
You're know, no, what's wrong.

Speaker 18 (02:50:23):
I'll talk to you privately about it.

Speaker 19 (02:50:24):
But but there's definitely different I was. I was definitely
not treated like how other people speaking were treated. You know,
I appreciate the apology and the recognition of that, but
I'm still affected by it.

Speaker 18 (02:50:40):
I was very activated by it, very misogynistic.

Speaker 3 (02:50:44):
Sorry, I did not intend any of that.

Speaker 18 (02:50:47):
It wasn't easy.

Speaker 12 (02:50:48):
It wasn't you.

Speaker 18 (02:50:49):
You didn't do anything wrong, it wasn't me.

Speaker 12 (02:50:52):
Okay, all right, but I appreciate I.

Speaker 19 (02:50:54):
Don't know who it was, it was moderating, but I
appreciate that they acknowledged that just before want to get
on and say thank you for the acknowledgment, but still
is activated by it, and I have I didn't get
out half of what I wanted to get out because
I got a question thrown at me straight away about
whether I believed based in Sands.

Speaker 18 (02:51:13):
I wasn't even talking about.

Speaker 19 (02:51:14):
Whether I believe him or I was just using him
as an example, And I'm like, why am I being
cut off?

Speaker 18 (02:51:19):
Can I just I just want to I just want
to share what.

Speaker 19 (02:51:22):
You know, the knowledge that I'm trying to bring to
help because I heard a lot of complaints about things
that didn't need to be complaints. We could have eradicated
like fifty percent of them. You know, I can type
up some dossierer and what we can what it is
that can give us trust and not have to be
skeptical about every single whistle blower that we hear, which actually,

(02:51:43):
you know, feel some kind of like confidencing in in
this story and what we're seeing, you know, based on
what I was going to bring.

Speaker 18 (02:51:52):
So I can do that another time, but I can talk.

Speaker 6 (02:51:54):
To you about it.

Speaker 18 (02:51:55):
You know how I feel about you, Darcy, are cool,
you know, But how.

Speaker 19 (02:52:01):
How I was treated it was differently to how every
other guy was treated.

Speaker 18 (02:52:06):
And you can all go back and listen to it.
It just felt misogynistic. And that that's what's upsetting because
it just happens so many times.

Speaker 19 (02:52:14):
You get cut off, you're not heard, So it's a
lot of past experience is.

Speaker 18 (02:52:20):
Why I'm upset right now. Well about it that I
appreciate the reco acknowledgment.

Speaker 3 (02:52:25):
Yeah, I don't want you to feel trauma over that.
I want you to be able to rest and each mate,
you know, get.

Speaker 18 (02:52:31):
A three o'clock in the afternoon, Okay, go have.

Speaker 3 (02:52:36):
A nice naph the RBO. But uh, but you know
it's I hate to trigger you.

Speaker 18 (02:52:44):
And he didn't trigger me. It wasn't you didn't trigger me.

Speaker 12 (02:52:48):
It's yeah, if anything.

Speaker 3 (02:52:51):
I think Andy was trying to get you to get
to the point. And yeah, I do appreciate that.

Speaker 19 (02:52:56):
Maybe I got it hard to get to the point
because I got cut off at the start and challenge
about whether I believes and sounds, and that wasn't what
I was there to do. I was there to just
like to share some skills that we can apply to
not having to like to have more confidence in in
this as well. And I had, yeah, I had a
lot of stuff written down, and yeah, so I was

(02:53:18):
trying to likes of those notes as well because I
was like quickly scribbling stuff.

Speaker 18 (02:53:22):
I just had a lot to unpack. So anyway, I'll look.

Speaker 3 (02:53:27):
At your notes and I will just say, like straight up,
I think skeptical approach to all whistle blowers is warranted.

Speaker 19 (02:53:38):
I'm not saying it's not, but we can be more
confident in when we when we see some of these
when we apply some of these variables that we know
that you know, psychology supports, because I mean there's white
books and stuff.

Speaker 18 (02:53:50):
Behavior we can we can expl like, we can explain
so much.

Speaker 19 (02:53:55):
Stuff about what we observe with behavior based and grated
in psychological feet and it's true and tested stuff. So
it's very powerful stuff that we can apply and we
can be more empowered about that. So they were just
points I was trying to make, but I didn't even
get to you know, the transformive experiences and asking questions
around how their life has changed.

Speaker 18 (02:54:17):
Like for example, it's going to talk about lue Alsondo
talks he resigned from his job. His life completely did
turn around it in a massive change.

Speaker 19 (02:54:25):
He changes his life to be able to to you know,
tell the story. Same with Chris Fledso he has such
a profound transformative change about his life and the events
of his life around his story, and those things are
very incredible, you know, so and we can trust in
those things when we see, like you know, people explaining

(02:54:47):
how it transformed or changed them.

Speaker 18 (02:54:49):
So asking the right questions was what I was trying
to get to.

Speaker 3 (02:54:53):
But yeah, I had a whole lot of notes. Well, no,
I agree with that we should be asked these questions.
And I tonight in this space, I'm presenting my opinion
and trying to ask people to do a deeper analysis
of what's being said to what things have been said

(02:55:14):
in the past and previous behaviors from other people that
have done the same thing within the community. I advise
anybody who is listening still now, who's stuck through to
the end here go on to BTV. Y'all all watched
the fucking Jeremy Corbell Documentary Series two with TMZ type

(02:55:37):
in Dark Alliance to us. Yes, that's my Docuse do
me a favor.

Speaker 12 (02:55:45):
Check that out.

Speaker 3 (02:55:46):
That's all testimony and facts and shows a real history
of drifting.

Speaker 4 (02:55:52):
So please.

Speaker 3 (02:55:54):
Just take that. You know, some people might fuck you.
I don't take anything you put out there. That's your loss.
That's called cognitive dissonance. You're not allowing new ideas for
information to pervade or enter your brain. So sorry, but Bex,
thanks for stepping up, and well thanks.

Speaker 19 (02:56:14):
For producing that series. I said to you online it
was in a damn it was amazing. It did such
an awesome job.

Speaker 12 (02:56:22):
I was very impressed.

Speaker 3 (02:56:24):
I appreciate that. Yeah.

Speaker 18 (02:56:25):
Yeah, okay, all right, catch you light everyone.

Speaker 6 (02:56:28):
Okay, have a good night.

Speaker 3 (02:56:29):
Everyonet to take care.

Speaker 8 (02:56:31):
It's just gonna the last words, is right.

Speaker 3 (02:56:35):
Yeah, all right.

Speaker 27 (02:56:37):
I was just going to say Beck said as well
that yeah, I do think we have to look at
a sort of sliding scale of trust with people. But
so yes, we should be looking at psychological tools to
evaluate whether someone at least seems to be honest in
terms that they believe what they're saying.

Speaker 28 (02:56:55):
You know, it doesn't mean, it's true, but they believe
what they're saying. At the end of the day, still
has to come down to objective evidence because the ultimate,
the ultimate test, are you present to me a real thing?
Is the supporting evidence, you know what I mean. So
we should have a sliding scale. People that present objective
evidence at the top. People who's psychologically evaluated come across

(02:57:18):
as at least intending to be honest with us. Even
if they maybe are having experiences that are not physical,
could be visions, dreams, psychedelic experiences, they're still experience, right,
And then there's people below that the just delusional onlining
and so we do have to do some psychological tools
like Keen was pointed out. But at the end of
the day, the strongest evidence before anyone's going to cause

(02:57:40):
up a whistle blower is objective evidence or they're not
a whistle blower. I'm not going to put exception.

Speaker 16 (02:57:47):
I agree a that with what Blue said, But if
any if anybody can please take a look psychologically, Kim, well,
let me know what that.

Speaker 12 (02:57:54):
Was going on with the kid all you now give
me twenty four hours.

Speaker 3 (02:57:59):
Carlos, alright, guys, I'm going to close it down I
really appreciate y'all coming out and just having a good
chat tonight. It's my first space back in a little while,
and love y'all.

Speaker 6 (02:58:14):
Take care,