January 22, 2025 • 31 mins
In today’s episode, we dive into the dynamic world of financial services, specifically auto and mortgage lending. Join host Drew Megrey as he speaks with Rick Moore, the Chief Lending Officer at Maine Savings Credit Union. With nearly 39 years of experience under his belt, Rick provides invaluable insights into the evolving mortgage landscape, tackling challenges like rising interest rates and soaring home prices. He’ll also share how financial institutions are pivoting with innovative strategies in auto lending and unsecured loans to navigate these turbulent times. Plus, we’ll explore Rick’s personal tech preferences and his take on the future of AI advancements in finance.
Join us as we discuss:
Join us as we discuss:
- The potential of AI to transform the industry and pave the way for a four-day workweek
- Why rising home prices and high interest rates have shifted mortgage production.
- How Maine Savings Credit Union enhances auto and unsecured loan programs while exploring cutting-edge solutions.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
You're listening to Leaders in Lending from Upstart, a podcast
dedicated to helping consumer lenders grow their programs and improve
their product offerings. Each week, here, decision makers in the
finance industry offer insights into the future of the lending industry,
best practices around digital transformation, and more. Let's get into
the show.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hello, and welcome to another episode of Leaders in Lending.
I'm your host Drew Megree, joined today by Rick Moore,
the chief lending officer at Main Savings Credit Union. Rick,
Welcome to the podcast and thank you for making the
time to join me today.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Hey Drew, and thank you very much for inviting me
to your podcast. It's great to have a partner like
Upstart that takes the relationship to this next level. The
work that you do is very important to many of
us in the industry, so thank you for what you
do and keep up.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
With good work.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Thanks Rick. I always find this opening topic very interesting
with each guest, because there, of course is many different paths.
Right With that said, as I typically do, Rick, I'd
like to start off our conversation by giving the listeners,
you know, your path to what got you into the
financial services space and what did that journey to becoming
the chief lending officer at Main Savings look like well.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
I have to say, Drew that my career journey that
spans almost thirty nine years now at Main Savings is
something I've privileged to share in staff meetings across our
branch network. While and doublegent on this opportunity, I recognize
that some of this may not be as exciting to
you and your listeners, but many of our staff at
Main Savings has commented on how they enjoy some of
(01:38):
the history of the crediting that I've been privileged to experience.
I'll spare your audience a lot of the specific events
that make my story relevant to our staff, but really
it all starts four years before I was born. In
nineteen sixty one, my father in law was in the
railroad yard of the local railroad company and the founder
(02:00):
of the credit union come up to him asking and
if you if you'd like to join a credit union
starting new ving so cooperative. My father in law didn't
understand all of those that that meant to him, but
he put his twenty five cents in and became one
of the charter members of the credit union. I'd have
to say that. At the beginning of my career with
Main Savings, it was a thrill to be part of
(02:23):
a legacy from my father in law, who then shortly
thereafter started talking about how he would go to the
founder's table kitchen table and talk about borrowing funds for
a loan. It may have been like a three or
five hundred dollars, and the CEO ways say at that point,
I'm sorry, I don't we don't have the money right
(02:44):
now to lend you three hundred dollars. We're not big enough.
People have to make a few more payments. So he'll
come back in another week or so and I'm sure
we'll have that money available for you. So he remembers
those days of old when the credit union is just
starting out in the atink around the kitchen table of
the original CEO. So that kind of history is fascinating
(03:06):
to me, and watched it grow to where it's been.
Where's his nay? Yeah. So in nineteen eighty six is
when I really started with Main Savings. I started as
the loan and collection officer at one branch, eight employees
and about twenty million dollars in assets. One of the
things I really specifically remember in nineteen eighty six was
(03:26):
that we actually started our credit card program back then,
And I just recently found out the last couple of
years that nineteen eighty six is really when credit cards
came to credit unions. So it was an interesting learning
curve to figure out what credit cards means to us.
So as the lender and the collector, I found out
really quickly that I not only married them, I buried them.
(03:51):
So I did the collection part of the process on
a daily basis as well as due the lending, So
I was involved with repossessions, forclosures, the hard stuff. But
over the years, I've really kept the mantra that bad
things happen to good people, and I know that that's
really what the aspect we all need to keep in mind.
(04:12):
But with my experience in the collection area, it almost
makes me want to think that the first year of
every lender probably should have training in collections. If they
knew how to collect these loans, they'd probably be a
much better interviewer, much better lender, and understand the reasons
why collateral is really collateral only when you get it perfected.
(04:35):
So it's one of those areas I think is really important.
But from that point it became the branch manager of
that original branch, but convinced the CEO to start a
new branch in my hometown. I was about twenty five
miles away, and he says, that sounds like a great idea.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Rick.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
What we need to do is you need to develop segs.
So it gave me that experience of going out and
gathering I think it was a to forty new segs.
They were churches, Snowville clubs, small businesses. And we opened
that branch successfully and there I became the branch manager
for twelve years. It was such a rewarding experience to
(05:16):
be the active manager in the town where I lived.
Although a trip to the store could often take way
more time than I expected, and my wife was pretty
much knew that if I didn't come back soon, I
was probably caught up of the mouth talking to somebody
about business, which she fully understood. It was really during
(05:36):
that time that I fell in love with mortgage lending.
That thrill of helping that first time home buyer get
their first home. The opposite of the American dream is
to own your own home. We were fully engaged in
do a mortgage lending Back then, our new CEO was
very much a mortgage lender, and we took off very
quickly with mortgage lending. It was very rewarding, but it
(06:00):
took its time that the CEO saw something in me,
and in two thousand he asked me to become part
of the admin team in the main office and turn
it changed to the hand office, and he wanted me
to become the leader director of the lending area at
the credit union. This is where it was really exposed
(06:21):
more to the business lending. We'd done some business lending,
but we're really taking off at that point, and my
expertise became more broadened and the slow growth of business
lending was really fascinating over the next several years. At
this time, I remained very connected with Collections. I was
always the one that they would call upon, even though
(06:42):
I wasn't part of that team. They always wanted to
call on me from my experience with the mortgage area
or repossession. So it was always a good thing to
keep that connection there, and obviously now as the VP
of lending, that was part of what I oversaw on
a daily basis. Over the next five year years, I
earned a spot on the senior leadership team, which led
(07:04):
me to the senior vice president of lending position. Last year,
my title was officially updated from with part of the
senior team as part of the C suite as the
chief Lending Officer. It's been an amazing journey as we
find ourselves at almost eight hundred million dollars in assets
and eleven branches. I'm thankful for the opportunity and the
(07:27):
people that gave me those opportunities throughout the year to
be a leader that i've become today. I always try
to tell my staff, I try to empower them so
that they could make me look better, and that's always
a good thing, right. So I appreciate the opportunity to
tell my story, the abbreviated story, and a little bit
about the credit union history, because I believe that's probably
(07:49):
one of the things that the credit unions don't tell
very well, is their story. So with this type of
a podcast, it's great to be able to have that
option to tell the story of main savings. I hope
that the fish what you're looking for through it does.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
That's awesome. That's a in reflecting back on that, it
sounds like you were destined to be in the financial
services space then, of course, you know, sitting at the
at the dinner table with your your dad talking about
lending at such a young age, of course you were
you were destined, of course to be in the credit
union space. One thing I do want to touch base
though on is you know, you had a very elongated
(08:25):
period there of working your way up and a lot
of growth within Main Savings over the years. But let's
rewind back to you know something that you brought up
of your love of mortgage. So to frame up our
first topic about thirty one short years ago, and Rick,
I would assume you were a part of this Main
Savings and six other credit unions founded a mortgage QSO
(08:48):
And for the listeners that don't know, QSO is an
acronym for credit union service Organization in that QSO today
is now the largest credit union owned mortgage lender in
the state of Maine, in one of the top five
largest multi owned QSOs within the US. SO, mortgage lending
in Maine is big, but let's dig into it from
(09:10):
the opposite direction, rick So. A lot of our past
guests have discussed, you know, their excitement about the transformation
of lending and what they're doing in the space, which
of course we'll get to later on, but I wanted
to start by diving into a point you made when
we first met Rick, which is a part of lending,
particularly mortgage lending. To be exact, that's not exciting you
(09:31):
right now. Can you talk a bit about why your
premonition that the mortgage origination space in the short term
isn't exciting you like it once did.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Yeah, that's a really good point, you know. Like you said,
we have our one of the leaders in the state
or mortgage lending, have been for many, many years. It
seems very different. Over the last eighteen months or so,
we've seen our production go from very strong both in
the refinance and the purchase markets, but tampered off significantly
(10:04):
as we continue to experience the prices of homes have
climbed dramatically, but with a lower rate environment, we saw
home purchases remain affordable but strained. In the last eighteen months,
the increases and interest rates have all but pus stop
to the refinanced business, which was great great business. In addition,
(10:25):
home prices continued to increase with very low inventory, so
times for homes in the market dwindled with many homes
selling the thousands over asking price, and we've actually saw
a lot of bidding wars taking place during COVID. It
was amazing how many people came to the state of
Maine because they wanted to get out of the big cities.
(10:47):
They were buying houses unseen. They were just taking them
off the market paying ridiculous prices, which through the market
a significant upspin for purchase prices. But it was an
interesting time. So it certainly does divest our relationships in
the state, but we're interested to see what the next
(11:10):
process is going to look like. But what this whole
process has done, as I've taken our affordability from over
sixty percent of our first time home buyers to approximately
thirty percent of our first time home buyers, most of
our kids, including my son, are forced to stay at
home and live with mom and dad. You know, it
(11:31):
was a welcome trend. We started seeing mortgage rates heading
towards eight percent, as now is relaxed and significantly lowered
closer to the six percent range. It is also interesting
that over the last sixty days, we've been hearing from
our realtors that there's actually the no offers for thirty
days has become a statistic. Again, Prior to that, there
(11:53):
was offers happening the same day. Certainly in the same week,
we're not seeing more homes on the market. While we're
as good for origination and mortgages, it will certainly have
a negative impact on prices. The supply and demand will
eventually bring home prices down a little. However, with many
(12:15):
people sitting on their three percent or less mortgage rates,
we'll see continued reluctance to sell and to easily double
their interest rate costs if they were to buy a
different home. This will certainly keep the volumes of purchases
a little lower than the boon times of housing turnover
that we saw in the previous five to six years.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah, I am fortunate enough to sit in that cohort
that is going to stay at home given the sub
three percent mortgage refi during the during the COVID times.
But let's touch on some statistics here that kind of
point to your point. There is as of last month,
of course, home prices nationwide, not just particular particularly to Maine,
(13:03):
are up three percent year over year. The number of
homes sold have decreased by roughly four percent, and shockingly,
the number of homes for sale have risen I don't know,
roughly sixteen percent or so. So let's talk about mortgage
lending getting exciting. We both know that we're probably within
(13:23):
our careers, Rick not going to see mortgage rates where
they were in twenty twenty and twenty twenty one, given
the rates that were in the environment during COVID, but
with more rate cuts on the horizon, the increasing supply
of homes, what does a path to excitement in this
space look like for you?
Speaker 3 (13:41):
I think really looking to those statistics to gather gain
more momentum. I do see that, like you said, there
are more houses for sale, which is great. Hopefully we'll
see those things, say the continue on in our area.
Mortgage rates coming down just posted a six percent. It's
starting to get a little more excitement in our mortgage lenders.
(14:04):
We're actually starting to see our pipeline grow significantly. Oh
that's growing a bout the millions of dollars at this point,
So we're seeing that excitement start. It's at the time
of the year, we're at the end of the season
that's not typical, so it's obviously having some impact on
the buyers in the market today, which is exciting to
see us as we carry through the winter months when
(14:26):
it's usually slower. Anyways, with this new trend, it's starting
to get a little bit more of that excitement back
in the heels of our mortgage lenders.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
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(14:57):
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(15:20):
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Speaker 2 (15:28):
Something we've of course talked about here is supplies up right,
Demand however, is down year over year six percent. I'm
interested to get your take on why is supply up
but demand continues to be down. Do you think it's
a rent versus own or is it a thing of
kids coming out of college into the workplace just can't
(15:50):
afford the homes and all that it entails, such as
insurance and the cost to maintain a home. Or what's
your take on why is supply up but demand continues
to fall?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Well, I think you touched on a lot of the
real reasons why people aren't buying. First of all, the
prices are still up. Prices are still you know, national
statistics say that prices are still climbing. I think that's
a lot of not looking as close to the real
action that's taking place. While those numbers are still wagging
(16:22):
a little bit, we're seeing prices have started to level
off and even seen a little bit of tick downward
in some areas. So that is helpful. But certainly, you
know there's people graduating from college there, They've got a
lot of student debt. It's it's almost a second mortgage
in itself that's really keeping some of those on the sidelines.
(16:45):
Interest rates still while at six percent better than eight percent,
is maybe a lot of people are waiting for Oh,
Raychi're gonna come down. Rachire going to come down. We're there.
They're hoping for that. The economics are still pretty strong,
The unemployment rate is still low. It's ticked down a
little bit further over the last couple of days. So
(17:06):
those things are really helping to boost, you know, consumer confidence,
and I see that that is something that's going to
continue to help hopefully gather some more momentum. See the
rates maybe decline a little bit further, maybe see a
little bit of reduction in prices. As people are keeping
their houses on the market a little bit longer, they
maybe want to reduce their prices. So I think we're
(17:29):
hopefully poised to see some uptick in purchases over the
next six to twelve months.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, I agree with you, it's probably not going to
be at a large capacity. So to touch further on that,
let's let's reflect on the borrowers that, to your point,
are sitting at a sub three percent mortgage rate. What
do you think the mortgage industry is going to do
from a helock perspective, as we could potentially see another
two hundred basis point decline by the FED over the
(17:58):
next you know, let's call it twelve month answer. So,
do you think that helock space is going to continue
to catapult as it has been over the last twelve
eighteen months, or do you think there's going to be
more individuals using the equity in their home for a
cash out an extending term and increasing their rate potentially.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Well, we see the needs and the demands for home
equity lending just to be outpacing any other year. There's
a lot of people sitting on a lot of equity.
With the again values going up, people are using their
equities for many things. They are again stuck at that
three or sub three percent mortgage race, so they're not
(18:38):
going to refinance to be able to put on that
new addition. They're going to do a home equity and
that's what we're seeing a lot of. We're actually seeing
a lot of people taking advantage of their home equities
and buying other properties. So we're seeing a second home
or a seasonal camp or cottage on the lake. We're
seeing that continue to be striving factor. And what we
(19:00):
see on a daily basis. I don't see that's going
to lower any demand anytime soon, as a lot of
people are sitting on trillions of dollars in equity and
we're seeing a lot of activity on a daily basis.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yeah, I would agree with that. That is the same
type of conversation that I hear across the industry. So
it'll be interesting to see the change of pace of
how the mortgage industry moves forward here in the next
few months. So let's fast forward. We've talked a lot
about mortgage ricks. As you and I both know, mortgages,
(19:32):
of course, are one of the largest portions of most
financial institutions balance sheet, and for credit unions it's right
around that forty or fifty percent range or so. But
with your notion of a decline in mortgage originations in
the short term, what is main savings plans to leverage
or augment the balance sheet going forward with that decline?
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Yeah, I know, Drew. We are seeing that that hit
our balance sheet with the mortgages and not having the
origination so that people are still paying off, still moving,
so we're seeing that balance is going down, So we're
looking at other options, and that is one of the
bigger areas that where we found a great benefit from
when we started a referral program from local car dealerships.
(20:18):
It wasn't intentional. We obviously didn't have the old golden
rule apply for us that we saw what was happening
that far ahead, but we started getting a lot of
local dealers who wanted to work with us. We've never
been and now don't have the intentions to become an
indirect lending shop. But these small dealerships have given us
plenty of referrals and we don't pay them any dealer
(20:41):
reserves or referral fees, so it works well for us.
Their thrilled to be able to have the fast and
consistent decisions for their buyers. It has been so beneficial
that the original referral dealers that we had spread the
word throughout our local branch areas. This has continued to
grow that part of our business. Over the last two
(21:02):
or three years. We have seen our auto balances grow
fifteen to eighteen percent each year just from the small
organic growth from these small dealers with their small relationships
with that they've developed with us. It's been very beneficial
for us.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
That's awesome and one quick question off of that too,
is you mentioned you don't do indirect lending, but this
is somewhat in a sense, some type of indirecting. Of course,
you don't have the cost associated with with what comes
from from indirect lending. Do you have any insights for
our credit union and bank listeners that are also not
in indirect lending today on the best go to market
(21:41):
strategy to leverage this asset without managing those dealer partnerships.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Well, certainly they have to have the ability to pivot
quickly and be able to make sure that that the
borrowers and the lenders are always on the same page.
You know, the dealership relationship is something that has been
very beneficial for us, but also for our members. They
are looking for those little bit lower priced vehicles that
(22:08):
they can't get the big dealers, those big deals that
have the higher overhead. So these small dealers have really
been a huge benefit for our members as well as
for us. So keep your eyes open for those type
of relationships that can benefit not only you as a
credit union or a small community bank, but they can
(22:29):
help your constituents, your members, your customers be able to
get a better deal. Obviously, be careful there are a
lot of small dealers out there who maybe not selling
the best quality of vehicles. So we've had to take
our stance with a few of those that think that
they're going to make a couple extra thousand bucks on
a not such good quality vehicles. So just one of
(22:51):
those things to be watchful for, watch those times for
the title applications not being processed properly and quickly by
those dealers. But it's been really a great eye opening
relationship we've been developing, and it's been very beneficial for
again the credit Union and our members.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
That's great. Thanks, Thanks Rick. So we've talked a lot
about secured assets, mortgages, automobiles, a lot of the types
of loans that most financial institutions of course want to
put on their balance sheet. But with the decline in
originations of course to mortgages and then of course the
smaller dealer network that you're leveraging today, how do you
(23:32):
think about the secured versus unsecured diversification in the current
environment and in the future environment as the macro begins
to stabilize, to leverage your balance sheet from a return perspective.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Well, you hit a good spot in our balance sheet.
We definitely need that diversification. We need those higher yielding loans.
This means the focus on unsecured loans and credit cards
has increased. We've seen a significant growth in our secured
balances with the help of Upstart. Certainly, our partnership has
been very beneficial to us. It allowed us to grow
(24:07):
that business with good yields, as well as the confidence
and the expertise of the Upstart decision matrix. While we
limit the production to only a million dollars a month,
we've certainly seen a steady growth of our unsecured balances
that has sped that portion of our very hungry balance sheet.
At the same time, we continue to work on our
(24:27):
credit card vendor to increase limits or offer those special
transfer balance promos. As strange as it sounds, every time
we offer one of those balanced transfers, we see eighty
to ninety percent of those balances stay after the promotion.
I think we can probably, I'm pretty sure we can
(24:47):
attribute that the fact that we are a local service
credit union. We service all of our credit cards ourselves,
and that really stands out to our borrowers linking at
local professional heal help when they need it and they
know they talking to their credit union. So I think
that that has helped retain again that eighties and ninety
percent that we've always gathered from each of those promotions.
(25:09):
We run awesome.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
So mortgage lending is decreasing in the short term, we're
going to juice things up from an auto perspective, and
of course we're going to need to maintain some type
of diversification, so the balance sheet is maximizing your your return.
I think I summed up our conversation here pretty well.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Rick.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
As you know, I always like to close the podcast
out with three questions, so I'll just go rapid fire here.
What is the latest and greatest app or technology gadget
that you absolutely cannot live without.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
That's a great question. I really like technology and gadgets,
but the thoughts I had was not towards the highest tech,
but for something that makes my life easier. That's what
I concentrated on. With the business of our life. I'm
really falling in love with that fresh food delivery on
a weekly basis. So take us away from our talk
(26:06):
on finance, and I happen to use a company called
Hungary Root, which referred to me by my CEO with
two food allergies. It's the only fresh food delivery service
that would accommodate for both of those issues. I don't
do many food have any food issues, so just to
(26:27):
fund the convenience of getting a variety of foods with
average prep time starting for around fifteen minutes to be amazing.
On top of that, the amount of food waste is
almost eliminated that I don't have to stop at the
store three or four times a week. I don't know
about you, but simplifying this part of my life has
been very liberating.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I'm right there with you. I am guilty. I am
not an expertee or an expert in the kitchen. I'll
plug Hello Fresh. It helps with busy lifestyle and being
able to have food prepared for my children pretty quickly.
All right, Question number two, If you could switch jobs
with anyone for a day, who would it be and why?
Speaker 3 (27:11):
You know? My first thoughts went to people like Warren
Buffett or a strong political leader like our main congresswoman
Susan Collins. However, I really thought it would be amazing
to be someone like Scottie Scheffler, one of the top
professional golfers in the world today. It'd be amazing to
be a top of the world's greatest athletes and your profession.
(27:36):
I love his consistency, his control over his emotional and
mental faculties. What really focused my attention on him was
the ordeal he went through earlier this year when he
was as a disturbing and unjustified detainment by the police
on the morning of the final day of a professional tournament.
He was released with no account of wrongdoing, but ended
(27:57):
up arriving late to the turn. He couldn't do his
normal warm up or his practice, but ended up coming
in second place. To have that kind of mental and
emotional stability puts him at the top of my list
for amazing people. For me, being a wanna be golfer,
this is incredibly motivating. If during that one day I
(28:19):
could pick up on the mental strength he possesses while
learning a few things to make my golf a little better,
certainly wouldn't hurt my feelings any.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Or Two for two, Rick, I would also agree with
wanting to be Scotti Scheffler, given what he went through
at Valhalla a few months ago. But I also enjoy
the game of golf and wish I could produce scores
as such as Scotty Scheffler. So last one does not
need to be pertained to lending in any facet. But
(28:49):
what is one bold prediction for the future.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
That's a challenging question.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
I'm sure this one will disagree with.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
But maybe not. I think there's no doubt the lot
of bold predictions about the economy and interst rates, but
that's not where my mind first went. My thoughts went
to AI or artificial intelligence. My prediction is that AI
will morph to a stage in the next five years
that we will not recognize our industry or even interactions
(29:19):
with service and technology companies around the world. Well, this
all sounds and feels scary. You know, we've all watched
those sci fi movies with a computers take over the world,
and I'm confident that this technology will simply enhance our lives.
It is. It will get us to the point I
keep preaching on to my staff that we want to
work smarter and not work harder. Who knows, maybe this
(29:42):
could get us to the four day work week we
all want.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Well, I think we're three for three. Of course, I
have many bold predictions, but I would agree with you
on the movement of AI is going to definitely elevate
in the very very near future. Well that wraps this
episode of leaders and Lending. As always, thank you to
our listeners and Rick again, thank you for taking the
time to join me today.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Well great, Thank you very much Drew for having me
do a great job, and I hope you continue while
this is great service.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
Upstart partners with banks and credit unions to grow households
and expand consumer lending through its leading AI lending platform.
Upstart powered banks and credit unions leverage AI to offer
higher approval rates and experience lower loss rates while simultaneously
delivering the exceptional digital first lending experience that consumers demand.
Whether you're looking to grow and enhance your existing personal
(30:34):
and auto lending programs or you're just getting started, Upstart
can help. Upstart offers an end to end solution that
can help you find more credit worthy borrowers within your
risk profile with all digital underwriting, verification, loan closing, and servicing.
It's all possible with Upstart in your corner. Learn more
about finding new borrowers, enhancing your credit decisioning process, and
(30:56):
growing your business by visiting upstart dot com, slash lenders.
That's upstart dot com slash lenders.
You're listening to Leaders in Lending from Upstart, a podcast
dedicated to helping consumer lenders grow their programs and improve
their product offerings. Each week, here, decision makers in the
finance industry offer insights into the future of the lending industry,
best practices around digital transformation, and more. Let's get into
the show.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hello, and welcome to another episode of Leaders in Lending.
I'm your host Drew Megree, joined today by Rick Moore,
the chief lending officer at Main Savings Credit Union. Rick,
Welcome to the podcast and thank you for making the
time to join me today.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Hey Drew, and thank you very much for inviting me
to your podcast. It's great to have a partner like
Upstart that takes the relationship to this next level. The
work that you do is very important to many of
us in the industry, so thank you for what you
do and keep up.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
With good work.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Thanks Rick. I always find this opening topic very interesting
with each guest, because there, of course is many different paths.
Right With that said, as I typically do, Rick, I'd
like to start off our conversation by giving the listeners,
you know, your path to what got you into the
financial services space and what did that journey to becoming
the chief lending officer at Main Savings look like well.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
I have to say, Drew that my career journey that
spans almost thirty nine years now at Main Savings is
something I've privileged to share in staff meetings across our
branch network. While and doublegent on this opportunity, I recognize
that some of this may not be as exciting to
you and your listeners, but many of our staff at
Main Savings has commented on how they enjoy some of
(01:38):
the history of the crediting that I've been privileged to experience.
I'll spare your audience a lot of the specific events
that make my story relevant to our staff, but really
it all starts four years before I was born. In
nineteen sixty one, my father in law was in the
railroad yard of the local railroad company and the founder
(02:00):
of the credit union come up to him asking and
if you if you'd like to join a credit union
starting new ving so cooperative. My father in law didn't
understand all of those that that meant to him, but
he put his twenty five cents in and became one
of the charter members of the credit union. I'd have
to say that. At the beginning of my career with
Main Savings, it was a thrill to be part of
(02:23):
a legacy from my father in law, who then shortly
thereafter started talking about how he would go to the
founder's table kitchen table and talk about borrowing funds for
a loan. It may have been like a three or
five hundred dollars, and the CEO ways say at that point,
I'm sorry, I don't we don't have the money right
(02:44):
now to lend you three hundred dollars. We're not big enough.
People have to make a few more payments. So he'll
come back in another week or so and I'm sure
we'll have that money available for you. So he remembers
those days of old when the credit union is just
starting out in the atink around the kitchen table of
the original CEO. So that kind of history is fascinating
(03:06):
to me, and watched it grow to where it's been.
Where's his nay? Yeah. So in nineteen eighty six is
when I really started with Main Savings. I started as
the loan and collection officer at one branch, eight employees
and about twenty million dollars in assets. One of the
things I really specifically remember in nineteen eighty six was
(03:26):
that we actually started our credit card program back then,
And I just recently found out the last couple of
years that nineteen eighty six is really when credit cards
came to credit unions. So it was an interesting learning
curve to figure out what credit cards means to us.
So as the lender and the collector, I found out
really quickly that I not only married them, I buried them.
(03:51):
So I did the collection part of the process on
a daily basis as well as due the lending, So
I was involved with repossessions, forclosures, the hard stuff. But
over the years, I've really kept the mantra that bad
things happen to good people, and I know that that's
really what the aspect we all need to keep in mind.
(04:12):
But with my experience in the collection area, it almost
makes me want to think that the first year of
every lender probably should have training in collections. If they
knew how to collect these loans, they'd probably be a
much better interviewer, much better lender, and understand the reasons
why collateral is really collateral only when you get it perfected.
(04:35):
So it's one of those areas I think is really important.
But from that point it became the branch manager of
that original branch, but convinced the CEO to start a
new branch in my hometown. I was about twenty five
miles away, and he says, that sounds like a great idea.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Rick.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
What we need to do is you need to develop segs.
So it gave me that experience of going out and
gathering I think it was a to forty new segs.
They were churches, Snowville clubs, small businesses. And we opened
that branch successfully and there I became the branch manager
for twelve years. It was such a rewarding experience to
(05:16):
be the active manager in the town where I lived.
Although a trip to the store could often take way
more time than I expected, and my wife was pretty
much knew that if I didn't come back soon, I
was probably caught up of the mouth talking to somebody
about business, which she fully understood. It was really during
(05:36):
that time that I fell in love with mortgage lending.
That thrill of helping that first time home buyer get
their first home. The opposite of the American dream is
to own your own home. We were fully engaged in
do a mortgage lending Back then, our new CEO was
very much a mortgage lender, and we took off very
quickly with mortgage lending. It was very rewarding, but it
(06:00):
took its time that the CEO saw something in me,
and in two thousand he asked me to become part
of the admin team in the main office and turn
it changed to the hand office, and he wanted me
to become the leader director of the lending area at
the credit union. This is where it was really exposed
(06:21):
more to the business lending. We'd done some business lending,
but we're really taking off at that point, and my
expertise became more broadened and the slow growth of business
lending was really fascinating over the next several years. At
this time, I remained very connected with Collections. I was
always the one that they would call upon, even though
(06:42):
I wasn't part of that team. They always wanted to
call on me from my experience with the mortgage area
or repossession. So it was always a good thing to
keep that connection there, and obviously now as the VP
of lending, that was part of what I oversaw on
a daily basis. Over the next five year years, I
earned a spot on the senior leadership team, which led
(07:04):
me to the senior vice president of lending position. Last year,
my title was officially updated from with part of the
senior team as part of the C suite as the
chief Lending Officer. It's been an amazing journey as we
find ourselves at almost eight hundred million dollars in assets
and eleven branches. I'm thankful for the opportunity and the
(07:27):
people that gave me those opportunities throughout the year to
be a leader that i've become today. I always try
to tell my staff, I try to empower them so
that they could make me look better, and that's always
a good thing, right. So I appreciate the opportunity to
tell my story, the abbreviated story, and a little bit
about the credit union history, because I believe that's probably
(07:49):
one of the things that the credit unions don't tell
very well, is their story. So with this type of
a podcast, it's great to be able to have that
option to tell the story of main savings. I hope
that the fish what you're looking for through it does.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
That's awesome. That's a in reflecting back on that, it
sounds like you were destined to be in the financial
services space then, of course, you know, sitting at the
at the dinner table with your your dad talking about
lending at such a young age, of course you were
you were destined, of course to be in the credit
union space. One thing I do want to touch base
though on is you know, you had a very elongated
(08:25):
period there of working your way up and a lot
of growth within Main Savings over the years. But let's
rewind back to you know something that you brought up
of your love of mortgage. So to frame up our
first topic about thirty one short years ago, and Rick,
I would assume you were a part of this Main
Savings and six other credit unions founded a mortgage QSO
(08:48):
And for the listeners that don't know, QSO is an
acronym for credit union service Organization in that QSO today
is now the largest credit union owned mortgage lender in
the state of Maine, in one of the top five
largest multi owned QSOs within the US. SO, mortgage lending
in Maine is big, but let's dig into it from
(09:10):
the opposite direction, rick So. A lot of our past
guests have discussed, you know, their excitement about the transformation
of lending and what they're doing in the space, which
of course we'll get to later on, but I wanted
to start by diving into a point you made when
we first met Rick, which is a part of lending,
particularly mortgage lending. To be exact, that's not exciting you
(09:31):
right now. Can you talk a bit about why your
premonition that the mortgage origination space in the short term
isn't exciting you like it once did.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Yeah, that's a really good point, you know. Like you said,
we have our one of the leaders in the state
or mortgage lending, have been for many, many years. It
seems very different. Over the last eighteen months or so,
we've seen our production go from very strong both in
the refinance and the purchase markets, but tampered off significantly
(10:04):
as we continue to experience the prices of homes have
climbed dramatically, but with a lower rate environment, we saw
home purchases remain affordable but strained. In the last eighteen months,
the increases and interest rates have all but pus stop
to the refinanced business, which was great great business. In addition,
(10:25):
home prices continued to increase with very low inventory, so
times for homes in the market dwindled with many homes
selling the thousands over asking price, and we've actually saw
a lot of bidding wars taking place during COVID. It
was amazing how many people came to the state of
Maine because they wanted to get out of the big cities.
(10:47):
They were buying houses unseen. They were just taking them
off the market paying ridiculous prices, which through the market
a significant upspin for purchase prices. But it was an
interesting time. So it certainly does divest our relationships in
the state, but we're interested to see what the next
(11:10):
process is going to look like. But what this whole
process has done, as I've taken our affordability from over
sixty percent of our first time home buyers to approximately
thirty percent of our first time home buyers, most of
our kids, including my son, are forced to stay at
home and live with mom and dad. You know, it
(11:31):
was a welcome trend. We started seeing mortgage rates heading
towards eight percent, as now is relaxed and significantly lowered
closer to the six percent range. It is also interesting
that over the last sixty days, we've been hearing from
our realtors that there's actually the no offers for thirty
days has become a statistic. Again, Prior to that, there
(11:53):
was offers happening the same day. Certainly in the same week,
we're not seeing more homes on the market. While we're
as good for origination and mortgages, it will certainly have
a negative impact on prices. The supply and demand will
eventually bring home prices down a little. However, with many
(12:15):
people sitting on their three percent or less mortgage rates,
we'll see continued reluctance to sell and to easily double
their interest rate costs if they were to buy a
different home. This will certainly keep the volumes of purchases
a little lower than the boon times of housing turnover
that we saw in the previous five to six years.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah, I am fortunate enough to sit in that cohort
that is going to stay at home given the sub
three percent mortgage refi during the during the COVID times.
But let's touch on some statistics here that kind of
point to your point. There is as of last month,
of course, home prices nationwide, not just particular particularly to Maine,
(13:03):
are up three percent year over year. The number of
homes sold have decreased by roughly four percent, and shockingly,
the number of homes for sale have risen I don't know,
roughly sixteen percent or so. So let's talk about mortgage
lending getting exciting. We both know that we're probably within
(13:23):
our careers, Rick not going to see mortgage rates where
they were in twenty twenty and twenty twenty one, given
the rates that were in the environment during COVID, but
with more rate cuts on the horizon, the increasing supply
of homes, what does a path to excitement in this
space look like for you?
Speaker 3 (13:41):
I think really looking to those statistics to gather gain
more momentum. I do see that, like you said, there
are more houses for sale, which is great. Hopefully we'll
see those things, say the continue on in our area.
Mortgage rates coming down just posted a six percent. It's
starting to get a little more excitement in our mortgage lenders.
(14:04):
We're actually starting to see our pipeline grow significantly. Oh
that's growing a bout the millions of dollars at this point,
So we're seeing that excitement start. It's at the time
of the year, we're at the end of the season
that's not typical, so it's obviously having some impact on
the buyers in the market today, which is exciting to
see us as we carry through the winter months when
(14:26):
it's usually slower. Anyways, with this new trend, it's starting
to get a little bit more of that excitement back
in the heels of our mortgage lenders.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
I'll Start partners with banks and credit unions to grow
households and expand consumer lending through its leading AI lending platform.
Upstart powered banks and credit unions leverage AI to offer
higher approval rates and experience lower loss rates while simultaneously
delivering the exceptional digital first lending experience that consumers demand.
Whether you're looking to grow and enhance your existing personal
(14:57):
and auto lending programs or you're just getting started, Upstart
can help. Upstart offers an end to end solution that
can help you find more credit worthy borrowers within your
risk profile with all digital underwriting, verification, loan closing, and servicing.
It's all possible with Upstart in your corner. Learn more
about finding new borrowers, enhancing your credit decisioning process, and
(15:20):
growing your business by visiting upstart dot com slash lenders.
That's Upstart dot com slash lenders.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Something we've of course talked about here is supplies up right,
Demand however, is down year over year six percent. I'm
interested to get your take on why is supply up
but demand continues to be down. Do you think it's
a rent versus own or is it a thing of
kids coming out of college into the workplace just can't
(15:50):
afford the homes and all that it entails, such as
insurance and the cost to maintain a home. Or what's
your take on why is supply up but demand continues
to fall?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Well, I think you touched on a lot of the
real reasons why people aren't buying. First of all, the
prices are still up. Prices are still you know, national
statistics say that prices are still climbing. I think that's
a lot of not looking as close to the real
action that's taking place. While those numbers are still wagging
(16:22):
a little bit, we're seeing prices have started to level
off and even seen a little bit of tick downward
in some areas. So that is helpful. But certainly, you
know there's people graduating from college there, They've got a
lot of student debt. It's it's almost a second mortgage
in itself that's really keeping some of those on the sidelines.
(16:45):
Interest rates still while at six percent better than eight percent,
is maybe a lot of people are waiting for Oh,
Raychi're gonna come down. Rachire going to come down. We're there.
They're hoping for that. The economics are still pretty strong,
The unemployment rate is still low. It's ticked down a
little bit further over the last couple of days. So
(17:06):
those things are really helping to boost, you know, consumer confidence,
and I see that that is something that's going to
continue to help hopefully gather some more momentum. See the
rates maybe decline a little bit further, maybe see a
little bit of reduction in prices. As people are keeping
their houses on the market a little bit longer, they
maybe want to reduce their prices. So I think we're
(17:29):
hopefully poised to see some uptick in purchases over the
next six to twelve months.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, I agree with you, it's probably not going to
be at a large capacity. So to touch further on that,
let's let's reflect on the borrowers that, to your point,
are sitting at a sub three percent mortgage rate. What
do you think the mortgage industry is going to do
from a helock perspective, as we could potentially see another
two hundred basis point decline by the FED over the
(17:58):
next you know, let's call it twelve month answer. So,
do you think that helock space is going to continue
to catapult as it has been over the last twelve
eighteen months, or do you think there's going to be
more individuals using the equity in their home for a
cash out an extending term and increasing their rate potentially.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Well, we see the needs and the demands for home
equity lending just to be outpacing any other year. There's
a lot of people sitting on a lot of equity.
With the again values going up, people are using their
equities for many things. They are again stuck at that
three or sub three percent mortgage race, so they're not
(18:38):
going to refinance to be able to put on that
new addition. They're going to do a home equity and
that's what we're seeing a lot of. We're actually seeing
a lot of people taking advantage of their home equities
and buying other properties. So we're seeing a second home
or a seasonal camp or cottage on the lake. We're
seeing that continue to be striving factor. And what we
(19:00):
see on a daily basis. I don't see that's going
to lower any demand anytime soon, as a lot of
people are sitting on trillions of dollars in equity and
we're seeing a lot of activity on a daily basis.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yeah, I would agree with that. That is the same
type of conversation that I hear across the industry. So
it'll be interesting to see the change of pace of
how the mortgage industry moves forward here in the next
few months. So let's fast forward. We've talked a lot
about mortgage ricks. As you and I both know, mortgages,
(19:32):
of course, are one of the largest portions of most
financial institutions balance sheet, and for credit unions it's right
around that forty or fifty percent range or so. But
with your notion of a decline in mortgage originations in
the short term, what is main savings plans to leverage
or augment the balance sheet going forward with that decline?
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Yeah, I know, Drew. We are seeing that that hit
our balance sheet with the mortgages and not having the
origination so that people are still paying off, still moving,
so we're seeing that balance is going down, So we're
looking at other options, and that is one of the
bigger areas that where we found a great benefit from
when we started a referral program from local car dealerships.
(20:18):
It wasn't intentional. We obviously didn't have the old golden
rule apply for us that we saw what was happening
that far ahead, but we started getting a lot of
local dealers who wanted to work with us. We've never
been and now don't have the intentions to become an
indirect lending shop. But these small dealerships have given us
plenty of referrals and we don't pay them any dealer
(20:41):
reserves or referral fees, so it works well for us.
Their thrilled to be able to have the fast and
consistent decisions for their buyers. It has been so beneficial
that the original referral dealers that we had spread the
word throughout our local branch areas. This has continued to
grow that part of our business. Over the last two
(21:02):
or three years. We have seen our auto balances grow
fifteen to eighteen percent each year just from the small
organic growth from these small dealers with their small relationships
with that they've developed with us. It's been very beneficial
for us.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
That's awesome and one quick question off of that too,
is you mentioned you don't do indirect lending, but this
is somewhat in a sense, some type of indirecting. Of course,
you don't have the cost associated with with what comes
from from indirect lending. Do you have any insights for
our credit union and bank listeners that are also not
in indirect lending today on the best go to market
(21:41):
strategy to leverage this asset without managing those dealer partnerships.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Well, certainly they have to have the ability to pivot
quickly and be able to make sure that that the
borrowers and the lenders are always on the same page.
You know, the dealership relationship is something that has been
very beneficial for us, but also for our members. They
are looking for those little bit lower priced vehicles that
(22:08):
they can't get the big dealers, those big deals that
have the higher overhead. So these small dealers have really
been a huge benefit for our members as well as
for us. So keep your eyes open for those type
of relationships that can benefit not only you as a
credit union or a small community bank, but they can
(22:29):
help your constituents, your members, your customers be able to
get a better deal. Obviously, be careful there are a
lot of small dealers out there who maybe not selling
the best quality of vehicles. So we've had to take
our stance with a few of those that think that
they're going to make a couple extra thousand bucks on
a not such good quality vehicles. So just one of
(22:51):
those things to be watchful for, watch those times for
the title applications not being processed properly and quickly by
those dealers. But it's been really a great eye opening
relationship we've been developing, and it's been very beneficial for
again the credit Union and our members.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
That's great. Thanks, Thanks Rick. So we've talked a lot
about secured assets, mortgages, automobiles, a lot of the types
of loans that most financial institutions of course want to
put on their balance sheet. But with the decline in
originations of course to mortgages and then of course the
smaller dealer network that you're leveraging today, how do you
(23:32):
think about the secured versus unsecured diversification in the current
environment and in the future environment as the macro begins
to stabilize, to leverage your balance sheet from a return perspective.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Well, you hit a good spot in our balance sheet.
We definitely need that diversification. We need those higher yielding loans.
This means the focus on unsecured loans and credit cards
has increased. We've seen a significant growth in our secured
balances with the help of Upstart. Certainly, our partnership has
been very beneficial to us. It allowed us to grow
(24:07):
that business with good yields, as well as the confidence
and the expertise of the Upstart decision matrix. While we
limit the production to only a million dollars a month,
we've certainly seen a steady growth of our unsecured balances
that has sped that portion of our very hungry balance sheet.
At the same time, we continue to work on our
(24:27):
credit card vendor to increase limits or offer those special
transfer balance promos. As strange as it sounds, every time
we offer one of those balanced transfers, we see eighty
to ninety percent of those balances stay after the promotion.
I think we can probably, I'm pretty sure we can
(24:47):
attribute that the fact that we are a local service
credit union. We service all of our credit cards ourselves,
and that really stands out to our borrowers linking at
local professional heal help when they need it and they
know they talking to their credit union. So I think
that that has helped retain again that eighties and ninety
percent that we've always gathered from each of those promotions.
(25:09):
We run awesome.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
So mortgage lending is decreasing in the short term, we're
going to juice things up from an auto perspective, and
of course we're going to need to maintain some type
of diversification, so the balance sheet is maximizing your your return.
I think I summed up our conversation here pretty well.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Rick.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
As you know, I always like to close the podcast
out with three questions, so I'll just go rapid fire here.
What is the latest and greatest app or technology gadget
that you absolutely cannot live without.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
That's a great question. I really like technology and gadgets,
but the thoughts I had was not towards the highest tech,
but for something that makes my life easier. That's what
I concentrated on. With the business of our life. I'm
really falling in love with that fresh food delivery on
a weekly basis. So take us away from our talk
(26:06):
on finance, and I happen to use a company called
Hungary Root, which referred to me by my CEO with
two food allergies. It's the only fresh food delivery service
that would accommodate for both of those issues. I don't
do many food have any food issues, so just to
(26:27):
fund the convenience of getting a variety of foods with
average prep time starting for around fifteen minutes to be amazing.
On top of that, the amount of food waste is
almost eliminated that I don't have to stop at the
store three or four times a week. I don't know
about you, but simplifying this part of my life has
been very liberating.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I'm right there with you. I am guilty. I am
not an expertee or an expert in the kitchen. I'll
plug Hello Fresh. It helps with busy lifestyle and being
able to have food prepared for my children pretty quickly.
All right, Question number two, If you could switch jobs
with anyone for a day, who would it be and why?
Speaker 3 (27:11):
You know? My first thoughts went to people like Warren
Buffett or a strong political leader like our main congresswoman
Susan Collins. However, I really thought it would be amazing
to be someone like Scottie Scheffler, one of the top
professional golfers in the world today. It'd be amazing to
be a top of the world's greatest athletes and your profession.
(27:36):
I love his consistency, his control over his emotional and
mental faculties. What really focused my attention on him was
the ordeal he went through earlier this year when he
was as a disturbing and unjustified detainment by the police
on the morning of the final day of a professional tournament.
He was released with no account of wrongdoing, but ended
(27:57):
up arriving late to the turn. He couldn't do his
normal warm up or his practice, but ended up coming
in second place. To have that kind of mental and
emotional stability puts him at the top of my list
for amazing people. For me, being a wanna be golfer,
this is incredibly motivating. If during that one day I
(28:19):
could pick up on the mental strength he possesses while
learning a few things to make my golf a little better,
certainly wouldn't hurt my feelings any.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Or Two for two, Rick, I would also agree with
wanting to be Scotti Scheffler, given what he went through
at Valhalla a few months ago. But I also enjoy
the game of golf and wish I could produce scores
as such as Scotty Scheffler. So last one does not
need to be pertained to lending in any facet. But
(28:49):
what is one bold prediction for the future.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
That's a challenging question.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
I'm sure this one will disagree with.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
But maybe not. I think there's no doubt the lot
of bold predictions about the economy and interst rates, but
that's not where my mind first went. My thoughts went
to AI or artificial intelligence. My prediction is that AI
will morph to a stage in the next five years
that we will not recognize our industry or even interactions
(29:19):
with service and technology companies around the world. Well, this
all sounds and feels scary. You know, we've all watched
those sci fi movies with a computers take over the world,
and I'm confident that this technology will simply enhance our lives.
It is. It will get us to the point I
keep preaching on to my staff that we want to
work smarter and not work harder. Who knows, maybe this
(29:42):
could get us to the four day work week we
all want.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Well, I think we're three for three. Of course, I
have many bold predictions, but I would agree with you
on the movement of AI is going to definitely elevate
in the very very near future. Well that wraps this
episode of leaders and Lending. As always, thank you to
our listeners and Rick again, thank you for taking the
time to join me today.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Well great, Thank you very much Drew for having me
do a great job, and I hope you continue while
this is great service.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
Upstart partners with banks and credit unions to grow households
and expand consumer lending through its leading AI lending platform.
Upstart powered banks and credit unions leverage AI to offer
higher approval rates and experience lower loss rates while simultaneously
delivering the exceptional digital first lending experience that consumers demand.
Whether you're looking to grow and enhance your existing personal
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and auto lending programs or you're just getting started, Upstart
can help. Upstart offers an end to end solution that
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It's all possible with Upstart in your corner. Learn more
about finding new borrowers, enhancing your credit decisioning process, and
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growing your business by visiting upstart dot com, slash lenders.
That's upstart dot com slash lenders.
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