March 5, 2025 • 31 mins
In episode re-air, joining our host Ed Walters is Simon Darchis, Head of Partnership at Finwise Bank, to discuss his trajectory in the financial services sector from Europe to the US. With this multi-cultural background in finance, Simon explains the intricacies of FinTech, unraveling the cultural and regulatory intricacies that shape these distinct markets.
Ed and Simon discuss:
Ed and Simon discuss:
- The pivotal role of adaptability in navigating the evolving landscape of financial services
- Insights into the contrasting FinTech practices between America and Europe, emphasizing the significance of cultural understanding in the industry
- The critical importance of compliance in FinTech partnerships, from the challenges faced by banks collaborating with FinTechs to the meticulous partner selection process.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to Leaders in Lending from Upstart, a podcast
dedicated to helping consumer lenders grow their programs and improve
their product offerings. Each week, here decision makers in the
finance industry offer insights into the future of the lending industry,
best practices around digital transformation, and more. Let's get into
(00:22):
the show.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome to Leaders in Lending. I'm your host at Walters.
For this episode, I had the pleasure to sit down
with Simon Darcis, head of Partnerships at Finwise Bank. Growing
up in France. Simon shares his perspectives on the difference
in financial services between Europe and the United States. In addition,
he goes into depth on how he approaches selecting and
(00:44):
managing fintech partnerships in today's regulatory environment. I hope you
enjoy his perspective. Now let's jump into the episode. Welcome everyone.
I'm here today with Sarmon Darcis, head of Partnerships Finwise Bank. Simon.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Hello, Hey, Ed, how are you.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
I'm doing great? Thank you for joining me today.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Yeah, thank you for having me great.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
So, you know, the first question that we always like
to ask on these podcasts is really folks journey and
financial services, you know, so as we'll talk about your
role here in a second, but that's Can we start
kind of with you giving a summary of your journey
in financial services and what got you to the had
a partnership role of Finwise.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Absolutely, I mean my journey in financial services was somewhat
of an accident, if I'm being perfectly honest. I was
born and raised in Friends. I decided to move to
Canada when I was sixteen. The reason why I did
that is that I really wanted to become a doctor,
and I figured that if you finished high school in Quebec,
you could go straight into med school right after high school.
(01:44):
You didn't have to get a bachelor's degree. So that's
what I did. Finish high school in Montreal. Ended up
getting into the medical program that I wanted, and I really, really,
really hated it. I was miserable for the first semester
of med school. Hated the way it was tough. I
felt like I just had to learn everything by heart,
didn't have to use my brain. So I kind of
(02:05):
had to set down and figure out what it was
that I wanted to do for the rest of my life,
which is a really tough question to ask a seventeen
year old that's thirty five hundred miles away from his family.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
So kind of figured that.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
I was always a geek, always really into technology, always
loved to learn about the economy and global policies and
how it affected the lives of citizens. So economics made
a little bit of sense. And then what's economics without
financial services? So that's how I kind of decided to
study comside finance and economics because I decided not to
(02:41):
make it easy for myself whatsoever did that and you know,
my summer of freshman year it came about really wanted
an internship. Didn't feel like doing nothing over the summer.
So I ended up getting a summer internship at a
bank that no one had ever heard of, that was
based in New Jersey, in the suburbs of New York
(03:04):
that now became an industry name, and that's Cross River, right.
So spend the summer there, learned about peer to peer
lending because that's what it was called at the time, right,
marketplace lending was in terminology that we're using. Spend the
summer doing that, and you know, at the end of
the internship, I kind of went up to the CEO.
It was like, Hey, now that I've started working, kind
(03:26):
of want to keep working. Is there anyone that you
can introduce Metween in Canada where you know I could
keep working for during the school year, And and that's
when he offered to fly me out to New York
every year, every actually every week it was, and every
year it was every week going back and forth between
Montreal and New York. And that's how I became a
(03:46):
full time intern of Cross River and how I saw
the industry pop up.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Right.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
We went from marketplace lending or Peter peer lending to
what is known now as marketplace lending with the institutional investors,
to crypto payments, cards, deposit sponsorship. So had a really
really fun time looking at this, looking at this industry,
kind of be born from nothing. Graduated, decided that I
(04:15):
wanted to try the more traditional finance route, so went
to Merrill Lynch for a little bit, and honestly, it
was boring. I'm not gonna lie, you know. You go
from fintech to this multi century old institution and you
kind of feel like you're missing out on the cool stuff.
So quickly went back to fintech and that's when I
(04:38):
joined Finwise. I originally joined Finwise to help stand up
this new business line. I think I was employee number nineteen.
When I joined Finwise, it was a super tiny financial institution.
We I think at the time we had thirteen million
dollars in capital, barely over one hundred million dollars in
originations every year. Now we're one hundred and seventeen million
(04:58):
dollars in capital o our a billion dollars in originations
every quarter, so really sell tremendous growth that at fin
Wise evolved with the company. You know, at first, the
focus was on marketplace lending. We always had this understanding
that we wanted to grow past marketplace standing and start
sponsoring payments and cards. But honestly, MPL was pretty successful,
(05:23):
right and took up a bunch of our time. So
as interest rates sorry to rise, in origination sorry to drop,
we decided to take a beat figure out what it
was that we wanted to do long term in terms
of fintech. And and now we're growing in all directions,
in all fintech directions, So it's it's really fun.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
No, that's a great story, and I mean definitely that
willingness to zig zag, you know, starting with you think
you're going to do one thing, and many of us
are in that same spot, right we think we're this
is what we want to do with our career, and
then we get into it, and you know, we pivot
and continue to ride that. You have an interesting person spective,
as you talked about you know, you didn't start in
(06:02):
the States, and so you have some views I would,
I would imagine on the differences of how financial services
work in Europe as it compares to America. Could you
share some of that perspective or some of the differences
that kind of stand out to you that occur.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
And I think most of the differences between the American
market and the European markets stem in cultural differences. We
always think, you know, Europe and America two regions of
the Western world, they're kind of all the same, right, but.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
We we live fairly.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Different as it pertains to financial services and money management.
For instance, the American economy is very much driven on debt,
whether it's it's commercial debt or consumer debt. It's a
fun little tidbit. But in Europe we have this stereotype
that for every dollar than an American earns he's going
to spend three. So the difference has to be made
(06:59):
up somewhere. In Europe, you don't have lending as widely available.
Credit cards are very unknown. They exist, but they're not
very much. They're not very much used. Installment loans same thing.
You'll get a personal loan if you want to do
home renovation or if you have extremely large expenditures, but
(07:22):
you're now going to use a personal loan for a
shortfall in budget, you know.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
And we're very much.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
Taught that at an early age. And I can remember
my parents telling me, never spend more than your earn
and make sure that you're building, you know, a nice
little piggybank. So coming from those cultural differences, FinTechs just
grew in different directions in America and in Europe. And
I think that's why when you look at the fintech industry,
(07:50):
the first sub sector that really popped in America was
a lending space, right, especially that it was right after
two thousand and eight, no one was lending anymore, very
hard to get alone. In Europe, the sector that really
pupped was was neo banks, right. It was transactional tools
like cards. It was almost Venmo like companies right to
(08:12):
facilitate peer to peer payments, but lending didn't take off
and still hasn't. As I said, I think it stems
in the cultural difference. I think it stems also in
a difference of data being available. You know, in the States,
even in Canada, we have the credit bureaus. We can
easily make an assessment of the credit quality of a
(08:35):
customer and all of that on an automated basis. Most
countries in Europe, with the notable exception of Germany and
the UK, don't have credit agencies. So if you're to
apply for a personal loan, you do it at the
branch of your bank that you normally go to, and
you go through manual on the writing. You know, we
(08:58):
are starting to see an effort to create open banking
in Europe that is actually, in some regards a little
bit more successful than it is in Europe because it
is created by defentcial institutions and not by FinTechs. But
that's all you get. It's access to transactional data. You
don't get that holistic view of how a customer may
(09:20):
have performed on their past debts. And also they don't
get a lot of past debts. So you have that
difference and that's why the fintech sector just evolved differently.
And then you also have a difference in terms of
how business or fintech business is done in America and
in Europe. In America, in order for a business to scale,
(09:45):
generally they'll create those famous bank partnerships. Right, it's very
hard for fintech to get a banking license. We've seen
a few, right they've acquired banks, it's gone into nova licenses.
In Europe, you don't have that concept of bank partnerships.
FinTechs very much become banks. There are simplified banking licenses
(10:05):
that are available to FinTechs, or they can get full
service licenses. And the nice thing about Europe is that
it's a conglomerate of countries and if you have a
banking license in one of those countries, you can operate
throughout the European Union. The market definitely took a little
bit of a hit when the UK exited the European Union.
The UK was generally the point of entry for FinTechs
(10:25):
into the EU. Now that has transitioned to Belgium and
a little bit of the Netherlands, but it's very much
still the same concept. They get their own banking licenses.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
No very interesting and that and you do I imagine
kind of having that unique perspective just as you're incorporating
kind of some of your I wouldn't say necessary day
to data decisions, but as you're kind of thinking about
the macro and thinking about expansion of just understanding how
financial services works across the globe to bring those insights
and say how you can maybe leverage best price. This
(11:00):
is are things that you think are working other places
that may may be able to apply here, right.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Yeah, no, you're one hundred percent to it, right. Especially
I think the best example of this is payments. You know,
real time payments have always been a thing in Europe,
And when I moved to the States and I was like, wait,
I have to wait how.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Long to send money?
Speaker 4 (11:21):
It creates you bring those use cases, right, those things
that you thought you took for granted, you bring those
things to the United States. And when you're in the
position that I am right to looking at fintech strategy
and fintech products on a day to day basis, that
is a good a good baggage to have. It. It's
(11:41):
a good knowledge base to have it. It just brings
a different perspective and allows for maybe a little bit
more creativity as it pertains to product creation.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
No good now, thank you for sharing that. Very interesting.
As we transition to your current role, so as the
head of partnerships, can you describe what does the day
to day look like? What does the kind of the
scope of work?
Speaker 4 (12:03):
So the day to day is very much split into
two buckets. On one hand, you're very much a firefighter
all day every day. You have to make sure that
everything is running smoothly. You have to make sure that
everyone is happy, particularly your your partners and your regulators.
And you know, I've always somewhat described this roles as
(12:24):
having three main buckets of people that your service. You
have the internal people at the bank because you're you're
the point of contact for everyone, right, internal folks, and
your your partners. You have your partners obviously they're your
bread and butter. They're the ones that are advertising your
products and that are bringing your products to market. And
(12:46):
then you have your regulators. So it's always a little
bit of a juggling act to make sure that everyone
stays happy and stays on the same page. And really
the second part of the role is is very much
focused on strategy, right. It's trying to stay up to
date with the current trends, making sure that the bank
is not falling behind on the next trends, on the
next products that are going to come out, and how
(13:09):
we ensure that we're going to be able to service
or offer those products. So it's a little bit of
everyday management and long term thinking, right, which makes the
job super interesting.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Now, it's never boring, never, So let me I'll pull
on kind of two pieces there. In The first is
you talked about the working with regulators in the regulatory environment.
Can you expand a little more. Obviously, none of these
programs are just set it and forget it, right. There's
constant evolution and regulations as things are happening in the environment.
So as you're working with your fintech partners and then
(13:41):
also managing through the regulatory environment, can you talk about
how you're not only staying current what the requirements are,
but they're making sure that your fintech partners are meeting
up to those expectations.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Absolutely, And I think it's a it's an important question
in the context of what's going on, at least on
the financial on the financial institution side right now, how
do we make sure that we stay clean and that
we run extremely compliant programs. But I do have to
say that the recipe for us hasn't really changed at
the bank. You know, what attracted me to finn Wise
(14:16):
even back then in twenty eighteen, when the business lane
was just getting started, was the fact that compliance was
put first and foremost. We're not a nonprofit, we are
a for profit business. So the you know, the revenue
maximization strategy is here. However, it will never come at
the cost of compliance, which I think a lot of
(14:37):
financial institutions, you know, someone missed the mark on. Yes,
there is a ton of business to be had, but
you have to be selected and you have to make
sure that you're getting into the right kind of partnership. So,
you know, yes, when we saw all of these, all
of these consent orders, it prompted the question of are
we good with those things? We are we sure that
(14:58):
we're squeaky clean, And I think we somewhat came up,
you know, with the decision that we are. But we're
always striving for improvements. We're always putting new processes and
new systems in place to make sure that we remain
best in practice as it pertains a compliance. But if
we're being honest, it's always been a little bit challenging
to work with FinTechs. You know, in the context of
(15:21):
bank partnerships, FinTechs are two things to a bank partner.
They are a client, but they're also an extension of
the bank. So if they're a client, you strive to
maximize your relationship, You strive to maximize revenue, you strive
to maximize growth, and you strive to maximize overall happiness.
(15:43):
If you're looking at them as an extension of the bank,
the same principles apply, but you do have more control
over them. And I think this is the really critical
challenging part of those fintech relationships.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
How do you.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
Force a platform and I'm saying force, you know, loosely,
but how do you require platforms to adhere to specific
things because of your own risk tolerance when they may
not be on the same page. So everything is always
a little bit of negotiations, even you know, as it
(16:19):
pertains compliance, because we may be coming from a different
perspective and we have to meet somewhere in the middle.
We have to meet somewhere or where the fintech is happy,
growth is maximized and compliance is preserved. And you know,
as I said, it is it is challenging. I mean,
we we are financial institutions. We have stringent requirements that
we have to live with and unfortunately those requirements, unfortunately
(16:43):
or fortunately those requirements also apply to the financial to
the fintech. So how that translates in practice is, you know,
the outer most need for a trust relationship between the
fintech and the bank. The fintech has to trust that
the bank is not going above and beyond for no reason,
(17:04):
and the bank has to trust that the fintech is
doing everything as they've presented. Right, So it's but it
is still a culture of trust.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
But verify.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
We'll make sure that you know processes are being are
being respected through reports, through testing that will get done independently,
through audits that are done by third party firms. Will
get reports on a weekly basis, on a monthly basis,
(17:38):
even on a daily basis for some and you know,
as part of those reports and all of this data
that we get, we look for indicators that something is
wrong I'll give you an example if as part of
your complaints or as part of a fintech complaint, we
see that a lot of people are complaining that there's
an issue with repaying their loans because the rasing platform
(18:00):
is not it's not great, it's not use or friendly.
Most likely, depending on the kind of volume of complaints
that you're getting in that area, it is most likely
an area of concern that the bank has to dive into.
So we use all of this data is provided to
the fintech to make informed decision and to assess the
risk of each partnership. And you know, I'll somewhat wrap
(18:23):
up my long answer with an advice for the banks
that are looking to get into the space. It looks
like an extremely attractive business. You know, at face value,
it looks like a business with high profit margins, low
op X, very little risk, and that couldn't be further
from the truth. I have seen banks that are standing
(18:45):
up that kind of program with one compliance person in
this environment. It definitely does not work, and it did
not work ten years ago. You need to put in
the right investment. You need to put in the right
to risk control and the right infrastructure to make sure
that your fintech is being served correctly, your end user
is being served correctly, and that you're staying compliant. And
(19:07):
I think a lot of banks right now are missing
the mark on this.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
No, some really good insights as you describe, I mean
that kind of what I was listening is that the
takeaway on that is, first and foremost, there has to
be strong communication with your partners and your regulators, because
you're right, making sure is everyone interpreting it the same
way as you're describing and having those conversations and how
are you discussing? And then the second thing I'm kind
(19:31):
of taking away is just making sure that you're investing
the resources that if you're going to get into this business,
don't understaff it and don't make sure you're setting up
with the right amount of resources to manage the risk,
assess the risk, and manage the partnership. And then that
transit lates I'll see. Then let me go your second
point you talked about earlier, as you said, okay, first
(19:53):
on the regulatory and then you said there's a strategy component, right,
so it's you have to decide all who am I
partnering with because of what you just described You've said
that there's a lot of work, there's a lot of
investment you need to make, there's time so finding the
right partner. So how do you go about selecting who
you work with? And is there a process to that?
I mean, how do you guys think about that?
Speaker 3 (20:14):
There is?
Speaker 4 (20:15):
And you know, the biggest thing is that you can't
be worried about saying no to a partner.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
You have to be selective.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
So the first thing that we look at when we
are talking to a prospective platform is market fit. Is
this a long term product that is creating a need
or that is solving for a need in the market.
There is a lot of startups and it's not just
valid for the fintech industry. It's valid for a lot
(20:46):
of various industries that are a gimmick candidatey. So you
want to make sure that the market fit is there.
Then the second thing is the culture of the company
and the leadership of that company. Did they run and
you know, I'll throw out a couple of things such as,
did they ever run into issues with regulators or law
(21:08):
enforcement authorities? Did one of the previous ventures that they
work at got into that kind of issues? So you
look at the past of the founding team, the past
of the past experience of the key staff, just to
get a sense of who they are and what is
the culture that they're looking to create in the venture
that is looking to partner with you. Then, finally expanding
(21:31):
on that culture, you want to make sure that they
have a culture of compliance and that they have the
right compliance staff in place, which is sometimes challenging with
very new startups. Right, they may not have made the
investment in the compliance staff, so maybe they're utilizing a
law firm to fulfill that need. So and if that's
the case, you want to make sure that they have
(21:52):
a plan in place to create that compliance environment in house.
They can leverage law firms if they want to, but
they should have the staff internally. Once we're kind of
pass this first hurdle, we have a pretty extensive due
diligence process. Right, we want to make sure that you
have strong financial macking. We want to make sure that
(22:13):
if you're playing on the lending side of the of
the of the space, that you have access to debt
and you have access to equity. If you're going to
be financing everything yourself, we want to make sure that
depending on the stage that you're in in the life
cycle of your company, which I have put in place
matches that if you're a very established player like upside Wise,
(22:34):
when finit partnered with Upstart, you're expecting to see quite
a bit of pulses and procedures, right, You're expecting to
see that compliance environmentorities to that. If it's a newly
established startup, maybe not. So those requirements will depend on
where the companies that in their life cycle. And then finally,
(22:56):
the most critical piece is the onboarding process.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Us.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
This is when we work hand in hand with the
fintech to make sure that all the right pieces have
been put in place to stand up a fin wise product.
You know, there was recently updated guidance that was issued
by the FDIC as it pertains to third party relationships,
so bank partnerships fell into this where the FDIC is
now asking the bank to have the right process in
(23:23):
place to assess the risk of a relationship prior to
entering into that relationship. That's a process that we've always
followed that fin Wise, so we feel very confident in
the recipe that we've developed to select the right fintech partners.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
No it's good and it's you have to be thorough.
It is any partnership you get into as a representation
of your brand and an extension of your organization. So
everything you described definitely makes sense of why you want
to make sure you're doing the amount of diligence that
you described. So let me wrap. I always like to
as we come to the end, kind of three quick
quick questions. The first is, tell me, is there a
(24:02):
tech or an app that you just right now? You
can't live without that? It is just part of your
kind of day to day that is kind of your
your go to right now.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
I mean, look, it's gonna sound various, you're a typical,
but I don't think I could live without my phone.
Right This is where I conduct business. This is how
I talk to my family, that's abroad. It's how I
manage my finances, It's how I I you know, even now,
it's how I pay right. I honestly can't remember the
last time I walked out with my wallet.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
I have my phone.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
It's enough to do everything so that that piece of technology,
unfortunately has become pretty critical to my life.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yeah, you'll walk out of the house without a not
bring a driver's license or a wallet or anything like that.
But if you walk out without your phone, you're heading
back yet.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
One hundred percent you feel naked without it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Now, so my second question is, you know, we're financial services.
It's a risk based business. We all have to manage
risk if you're in financial services and so and sometimes
you have to make internal risks for career or just
kind of business decisions. Can you share an instance where
you think you had to make a risk or a
bold decision and what did you learn, What was the
(25:14):
outcome of doing that?
Speaker 4 (25:16):
Yeah, so, you know, I think the biggest risk that
I took in my career was to switch over to
fin Wise. Right when I started at cross River, I
didn't have that consideration of is the bank small, is
it big? It was an internship and I was very young,
so I didn't have to consider those things. But by
(25:38):
the time I left cross River, it was a very
established player in the space, right, and so when that
opportunity came up at finn Wise, it would have been
or it was to go back to very much being
in the trenches. A lot of it has not been
stood up yet. It's recreating a business line from scratch.
(26:00):
And that was a risk, but I think it's somewhat
what keeps me going in my career. I love being
the guy that is standing up new stuff that you know,
is trying to figure it out, that that is deep
into trenches. It's it's truly what I enjoy. So the
switch to finn Wise definitely solidified that I'm this guy
(26:22):
that is super happy with new established company and you know,
being a jack of all trades as opposed to just
being an employee number at a company as big as
Bank of America for instance.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Now you're looking at it, it sounds like you thrive
in that fast paced environment. Now good to hear. And
then the last is is we think about twenty twenty four,
any bold predictions of what you think might happen, and
you know, over the next eighteen to twenty four months.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
I think we'll start to see an even more dramatic
rise in the use of artificial intelligence. Lending has somewhat
embraced it already. I mean a lot of marketplace lenders
now use artificial intelligence based proprietary models, but I think
we'll see it even more in other areas. I could
(27:12):
see a tremendous rise in the use of neural nets
for anti fraud solutions, for instance, for KYC solutions that
use extremely non traditional data sources. Right now, if you're
looking at fraud, you know, or transaction monitoring, it is
using financial service data. I could see, you know, neural
(27:34):
nets being created that are pulling from news or pulling
from social media, that are pulling from past to usage
across various financial institutions.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
So I think we'll see.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
That, and of course we'll see the rise of artificial
intelligence for more operational efficiency and for improving the accuracy
of the models that we already have in place today.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
And you know, I'll wrap up with this.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
I could, you know, give your predictions all day long,
but I'll wrap up with this. I think big tech
will eat at the market shares even more than they
are right now as it pertains to fintech. You know,
if we look at Apple, I think it's a great
use case of how big tech can can you know,
(28:21):
try to penetrate that fintech industry. They started with an
Apple card. It was a partnership with Golden Sacs. We
knew that Golden Sax wanted to penetrate the consumer market,
and at first it was like this is a natural
evolution for Apple, but then it was by now pay later.
Now it's payment processing right. iPhones and iPads for the
(28:43):
past six months have been able to process card payments
on device. So I think big tech have seen that
fintech is extremely interesting and that there is a play
for them, right. Amazon is another great use case. I mean,
Amazon has been an extremely vocal adversary of interchange fees
(29:05):
in the States. We could see a world where Amazon
is creating their own payments hub. They may be creating
their own neo bank, you know. I think this will
happen sooner rather than later. I don't think this is
a multi decade opportunity for those big techs. I think
this is something that they're actively working on right now.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yeah, you're seeing just different organizations cross traditional boundaries of
where you wouldn't think that they would be doing business.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
But it just do is.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Financial services is kind of ingrained in a lot of
those components. So we'll we'll look forward to checking back
in and saying and some of your predictions. Simon, thank
you so much for taking the time today. I've enjoyed
the conversation. Learning a little bit more about your background
and your journey and appreciate the insights today perfect.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Thank you so much, Ed, I appreciate it.
Speaker 5 (29:55):
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(31:02):
slash board dash banks.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
You've been listening to Leaders in Lending from upstart. Make
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You're listening to Leaders in Lending from Upstart, a podcast
dedicated to helping consumer lenders grow their programs and improve
their product offerings. Each week, here decision makers in the
finance industry offer insights into the future of the lending industry,
best practices around digital transformation, and more. Let's get into
(00:22):
the show.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome to Leaders in Lending. I'm your host at Walters.
For this episode, I had the pleasure to sit down
with Simon Darcis, head of Partnerships at Finwise Bank. Growing
up in France. Simon shares his perspectives on the difference
in financial services between Europe and the United States. In addition,
he goes into depth on how he approaches selecting and
(00:44):
managing fintech partnerships in today's regulatory environment. I hope you
enjoy his perspective. Now let's jump into the episode. Welcome everyone.
I'm here today with Sarmon Darcis, head of Partnerships Finwise Bank. Simon.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Hello, Hey, Ed, how are you.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
I'm doing great? Thank you for joining me today.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Yeah, thank you for having me great.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
So, you know, the first question that we always like
to ask on these podcasts is really folks journey and
financial services, you know, so as we'll talk about your
role here in a second, but that's Can we start
kind of with you giving a summary of your journey
in financial services and what got you to the had
a partnership role of Finwise.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Absolutely, I mean my journey in financial services was somewhat
of an accident, if I'm being perfectly honest. I was
born and raised in Friends. I decided to move to
Canada when I was sixteen. The reason why I did
that is that I really wanted to become a doctor,
and I figured that if you finished high school in Quebec,
you could go straight into med school right after high school.
(01:44):
You didn't have to get a bachelor's degree. So that's
what I did. Finish high school in Montreal. Ended up
getting into the medical program that I wanted, and I really, really,
really hated it. I was miserable for the first semester
of med school. Hated the way it was tough. I
felt like I just had to learn everything by heart,
didn't have to use my brain. So I kind of
(02:05):
had to set down and figure out what it was
that I wanted to do for the rest of my life,
which is a really tough question to ask a seventeen
year old that's thirty five hundred miles away from his family.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
So kind of figured that.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
I was always a geek, always really into technology, always
loved to learn about the economy and global policies and
how it affected the lives of citizens. So economics made
a little bit of sense. And then what's economics without
financial services? So that's how I kind of decided to
study comside finance and economics because I decided not to
(02:41):
make it easy for myself whatsoever did that and you know,
my summer of freshman year it came about really wanted
an internship. Didn't feel like doing nothing over the summer.
So I ended up getting a summer internship at a
bank that no one had ever heard of, that was
based in New Jersey, in the suburbs of New York
(03:04):
that now became an industry name, and that's Cross River, right.
So spend the summer there, learned about peer to peer
lending because that's what it was called at the time, right,
marketplace lending was in terminology that we're using. Spend the
summer doing that, and you know, at the end of
the internship, I kind of went up to the CEO.
It was like, Hey, now that I've started working, kind
(03:26):
of want to keep working. Is there anyone that you
can introduce Metween in Canada where you know I could
keep working for during the school year, And and that's
when he offered to fly me out to New York
every year, every actually every week it was, and every
year it was every week going back and forth between
Montreal and New York. And that's how I became a
(03:46):
full time intern of Cross River and how I saw
the industry pop up.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Right.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
We went from marketplace lending or Peter peer lending to
what is known now as marketplace lending with the institutional investors,
to crypto payments, cards, deposit sponsorship. So had a really
really fun time looking at this, looking at this industry,
kind of be born from nothing. Graduated, decided that I
(04:15):
wanted to try the more traditional finance route, so went
to Merrill Lynch for a little bit, and honestly, it
was boring. I'm not gonna lie, you know. You go
from fintech to this multi century old institution and you
kind of feel like you're missing out on the cool stuff.
So quickly went back to fintech and that's when I
(04:38):
joined Finwise. I originally joined Finwise to help stand up
this new business line. I think I was employee number nineteen.
When I joined Finwise, it was a super tiny financial institution.
We I think at the time we had thirteen million
dollars in capital, barely over one hundred million dollars in
originations every year. Now we're one hundred and seventeen million
(04:58):
dollars in capital o our a billion dollars in originations
every quarter, so really sell tremendous growth that at fin
Wise evolved with the company. You know, at first, the
focus was on marketplace lending. We always had this understanding
that we wanted to grow past marketplace standing and start
sponsoring payments and cards. But honestly, MPL was pretty successful,
(05:23):
right and took up a bunch of our time. So
as interest rates sorry to rise, in origination sorry to drop,
we decided to take a beat figure out what it
was that we wanted to do long term in terms
of fintech. And and now we're growing in all directions,
in all fintech directions, So it's it's really fun.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
No, that's a great story, and I mean definitely that
willingness to zig zag, you know, starting with you think
you're going to do one thing, and many of us
are in that same spot, right we think we're this
is what we want to do with our career, and
then we get into it, and you know, we pivot
and continue to ride that. You have an interesting person spective,
as you talked about you know, you didn't start in
(06:02):
the States, and so you have some views I would,
I would imagine on the differences of how financial services
work in Europe as it compares to America. Could you
share some of that perspective or some of the differences
that kind of stand out to you that occur.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
And I think most of the differences between the American
market and the European markets stem in cultural differences. We
always think, you know, Europe and America two regions of
the Western world, they're kind of all the same, right, but.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
We we live fairly.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Different as it pertains to financial services and money management.
For instance, the American economy is very much driven on debt,
whether it's it's commercial debt or consumer debt. It's a
fun little tidbit. But in Europe we have this stereotype
that for every dollar than an American earns he's going
to spend three. So the difference has to be made
(06:59):
up somewhere. In Europe, you don't have lending as widely available.
Credit cards are very unknown. They exist, but they're not
very much. They're not very much used. Installment loans same thing.
You'll get a personal loan if you want to do
home renovation or if you have extremely large expenditures, but
(07:22):
you're now going to use a personal loan for a
shortfall in budget, you know.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
And we're very much.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
Taught that at an early age. And I can remember
my parents telling me, never spend more than your earn
and make sure that you're building, you know, a nice
little piggybank. So coming from those cultural differences, FinTechs just
grew in different directions in America and in Europe. And
I think that's why when you look at the fintech industry,
(07:50):
the first sub sector that really popped in America was
a lending space, right, especially that it was right after
two thousand and eight, no one was lending anymore, very
hard to get alone. In Europe, the sector that really
pupped was was neo banks, right. It was transactional tools
like cards. It was almost Venmo like companies right to
(08:12):
facilitate peer to peer payments, but lending didn't take off
and still hasn't. As I said, I think it stems
in the cultural difference. I think it stems also in
a difference of data being available. You know, in the States,
even in Canada, we have the credit bureaus. We can
easily make an assessment of the credit quality of a
(08:35):
customer and all of that on an automated basis. Most
countries in Europe, with the notable exception of Germany and
the UK, don't have credit agencies. So if you're to
apply for a personal loan, you do it at the
branch of your bank that you normally go to, and
you go through manual on the writing. You know, we
(08:58):
are starting to see an effort to create open banking
in Europe that is actually, in some regards a little
bit more successful than it is in Europe because it
is created by defentcial institutions and not by FinTechs. But
that's all you get. It's access to transactional data. You
don't get that holistic view of how a customer may
(09:20):
have performed on their past debts. And also they don't
get a lot of past debts. So you have that
difference and that's why the fintech sector just evolved differently.
And then you also have a difference in terms of
how business or fintech business is done in America and
in Europe. In America, in order for a business to scale,
(09:45):
generally they'll create those famous bank partnerships. Right, it's very
hard for fintech to get a banking license. We've seen
a few, right they've acquired banks, it's gone into nova licenses.
In Europe, you don't have that concept of bank partnerships.
FinTechs very much become banks. There are simplified banking licenses
(10:05):
that are available to FinTechs, or they can get full
service licenses. And the nice thing about Europe is that
it's a conglomerate of countries and if you have a
banking license in one of those countries, you can operate
throughout the European Union. The market definitely took a little
bit of a hit when the UK exited the European Union.
The UK was generally the point of entry for FinTechs
(10:25):
into the EU. Now that has transitioned to Belgium and
a little bit of the Netherlands, but it's very much
still the same concept. They get their own banking licenses.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
No very interesting and that and you do I imagine
kind of having that unique perspective just as you're incorporating
kind of some of your I wouldn't say necessary day
to data decisions, but as you're kind of thinking about
the macro and thinking about expansion of just understanding how
financial services works across the globe to bring those insights
and say how you can maybe leverage best price. This
(11:00):
is are things that you think are working other places
that may may be able to apply here, right.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Yeah, no, you're one hundred percent to it, right. Especially
I think the best example of this is payments. You know,
real time payments have always been a thing in Europe,
And when I moved to the States and I was like, wait,
I have to wait how.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Long to send money?
Speaker 4 (11:21):
It creates you bring those use cases, right, those things
that you thought you took for granted, you bring those
things to the United States. And when you're in the
position that I am right to looking at fintech strategy
and fintech products on a day to day basis, that
is a good a good baggage to have. It. It's
(11:41):
a good knowledge base to have it. It just brings
a different perspective and allows for maybe a little bit
more creativity as it pertains to product creation.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
No good now, thank you for sharing that. Very interesting.
As we transition to your current role, so as the
head of partnerships, can you describe what does the day
to day look like? What does the kind of the
scope of work?
Speaker 4 (12:03):
So the day to day is very much split into
two buckets. On one hand, you're very much a firefighter
all day every day. You have to make sure that
everything is running smoothly. You have to make sure that
everyone is happy, particularly your your partners and your regulators.
And you know, I've always somewhat described this roles as
(12:24):
having three main buckets of people that your service. You
have the internal people at the bank because you're you're
the point of contact for everyone, right, internal folks, and
your your partners. You have your partners obviously they're your
bread and butter. They're the ones that are advertising your
products and that are bringing your products to market. And
(12:46):
then you have your regulators. So it's always a little
bit of a juggling act to make sure that everyone
stays happy and stays on the same page. And really
the second part of the role is is very much
focused on strategy, right. It's trying to stay up to
date with the current trends, making sure that the bank
is not falling behind on the next trends, on the
next products that are going to come out, and how
(13:09):
we ensure that we're going to be able to service
or offer those products. So it's a little bit of
everyday management and long term thinking, right, which makes the
job super interesting.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Now, it's never boring, never, So let me I'll pull
on kind of two pieces there. In The first is
you talked about the working with regulators in the regulatory environment.
Can you expand a little more. Obviously, none of these
programs are just set it and forget it, right. There's
constant evolution and regulations as things are happening in the environment.
So as you're working with your fintech partners and then
(13:41):
also managing through the regulatory environment, can you talk about
how you're not only staying current what the requirements are,
but they're making sure that your fintech partners are meeting
up to those expectations.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Absolutely, And I think it's a it's an important question
in the context of what's going on, at least on
the financial on the financial institution side right now, how
do we make sure that we stay clean and that
we run extremely compliant programs. But I do have to
say that the recipe for us hasn't really changed at
the bank. You know, what attracted me to finn Wise
(14:16):
even back then in twenty eighteen, when the business lane
was just getting started, was the fact that compliance was
put first and foremost. We're not a nonprofit, we are
a for profit business. So the you know, the revenue
maximization strategy is here. However, it will never come at
the cost of compliance, which I think a lot of
(14:37):
financial institutions, you know, someone missed the mark on. Yes,
there is a ton of business to be had, but
you have to be selected and you have to make
sure that you're getting into the right kind of partnership. So,
you know, yes, when we saw all of these, all
of these consent orders, it prompted the question of are
we good with those things? We are we sure that
(14:58):
we're squeaky clean, And I think we somewhat came up,
you know, with the decision that we are. But we're
always striving for improvements. We're always putting new processes and
new systems in place to make sure that we remain
best in practice as it pertains a compliance. But if
we're being honest, it's always been a little bit challenging
to work with FinTechs. You know, in the context of
(15:21):
bank partnerships, FinTechs are two things to a bank partner.
They are a client, but they're also an extension of
the bank. So if they're a client, you strive to
maximize your relationship, You strive to maximize revenue, you strive
to maximize growth, and you strive to maximize overall happiness.
(15:43):
If you're looking at them as an extension of the bank,
the same principles apply, but you do have more control
over them. And I think this is the really critical
challenging part of those fintech relationships.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
How do you.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
Force a platform and I'm saying force, you know, loosely,
but how do you require platforms to adhere to specific
things because of your own risk tolerance when they may
not be on the same page. So everything is always
a little bit of negotiations, even you know, as it
(16:19):
pertains compliance, because we may be coming from a different
perspective and we have to meet somewhere in the middle.
We have to meet somewhere or where the fintech is happy,
growth is maximized and compliance is preserved. And you know,
as I said, it is it is challenging. I mean,
we we are financial institutions. We have stringent requirements that
we have to live with and unfortunately those requirements, unfortunately
(16:43):
or fortunately those requirements also apply to the financial to
the fintech. So how that translates in practice is, you know,
the outer most need for a trust relationship between the
fintech and the bank. The fintech has to trust that
the bank is not going above and beyond for no reason,
(17:04):
and the bank has to trust that the fintech is
doing everything as they've presented. Right, So it's but it
is still a culture of trust.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
But verify.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
We'll make sure that you know processes are being are
being respected through reports, through testing that will get done independently,
through audits that are done by third party firms. Will
get reports on a weekly basis, on a monthly basis,
(17:38):
even on a daily basis for some and you know,
as part of those reports and all of this data
that we get, we look for indicators that something is
wrong I'll give you an example if as part of
your complaints or as part of a fintech complaint, we
see that a lot of people are complaining that there's
an issue with repaying their loans because the rasing platform
(18:00):
is not it's not great, it's not use or friendly.
Most likely, depending on the kind of volume of complaints
that you're getting in that area, it is most likely
an area of concern that the bank has to dive into.
So we use all of this data is provided to
the fintech to make informed decision and to assess the
risk of each partnership. And you know, I'll somewhat wrap
(18:23):
up my long answer with an advice for the banks
that are looking to get into the space. It looks
like an extremely attractive business. You know, at face value,
it looks like a business with high profit margins, low
op X, very little risk, and that couldn't be further
from the truth. I have seen banks that are standing
(18:45):
up that kind of program with one compliance person in
this environment. It definitely does not work, and it did
not work ten years ago. You need to put in
the right investment. You need to put in the right
to risk control and the right infrastructure to make sure
that your fintech is being served correctly, your end user
is being served correctly, and that you're staying compliant. And
(19:07):
I think a lot of banks right now are missing
the mark on this.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
No, some really good insights as you describe, I mean
that kind of what I was listening is that the
takeaway on that is, first and foremost, there has to
be strong communication with your partners and your regulators, because
you're right, making sure is everyone interpreting it the same
way as you're describing and having those conversations and how
are you discussing? And then the second thing I'm kind
(19:31):
of taking away is just making sure that you're investing
the resources that if you're going to get into this business,
don't understaff it and don't make sure you're setting up
with the right amount of resources to manage the risk,
assess the risk, and manage the partnership. And then that
transit lates I'll see. Then let me go your second
point you talked about earlier, as you said, okay, first
(19:53):
on the regulatory and then you said there's a strategy component, right,
so it's you have to decide all who am I
partnering with because of what you just described You've said
that there's a lot of work, there's a lot of
investment you need to make, there's time so finding the
right partner. So how do you go about selecting who
you work with? And is there a process to that?
I mean, how do you guys think about that?
Speaker 3 (20:14):
There is?
Speaker 4 (20:15):
And you know, the biggest thing is that you can't
be worried about saying no to a partner.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
You have to be selective.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
So the first thing that we look at when we
are talking to a prospective platform is market fit. Is
this a long term product that is creating a need
or that is solving for a need in the market.
There is a lot of startups and it's not just
valid for the fintech industry. It's valid for a lot
(20:46):
of various industries that are a gimmick candidatey. So you
want to make sure that the market fit is there.
Then the second thing is the culture of the company
and the leadership of that company. Did they run and
you know, I'll throw out a couple of things such as,
did they ever run into issues with regulators or law
(21:08):
enforcement authorities? Did one of the previous ventures that they
work at got into that kind of issues? So you
look at the past of the founding team, the past
of the past experience of the key staff, just to
get a sense of who they are and what is
the culture that they're looking to create in the venture
that is looking to partner with you. Then, finally expanding
(21:31):
on that culture, you want to make sure that they
have a culture of compliance and that they have the
right compliance staff in place, which is sometimes challenging with
very new startups. Right, they may not have made the
investment in the compliance staff, so maybe they're utilizing a
law firm to fulfill that need. So and if that's
the case, you want to make sure that they have
(21:52):
a plan in place to create that compliance environment in house.
They can leverage law firms if they want to, but
they should have the staff internally. Once we're kind of
pass this first hurdle, we have a pretty extensive due
diligence process. Right, we want to make sure that you
have strong financial macking. We want to make sure that
(22:13):
if you're playing on the lending side of the of
the of the space, that you have access to debt
and you have access to equity. If you're going to
be financing everything yourself, we want to make sure that
depending on the stage that you're in in the life
cycle of your company, which I have put in place
matches that if you're a very established player like upside Wise,
(22:34):
when finit partnered with Upstart, you're expecting to see quite
a bit of pulses and procedures, right, You're expecting to
see that compliance environmentorities to that. If it's a newly
established startup, maybe not. So those requirements will depend on
where the companies that in their life cycle. And then finally,
(22:56):
the most critical piece is the onboarding process.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Us.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
This is when we work hand in hand with the
fintech to make sure that all the right pieces have
been put in place to stand up a fin wise product.
You know, there was recently updated guidance that was issued
by the FDIC as it pertains to third party relationships,
so bank partnerships fell into this where the FDIC is
now asking the bank to have the right process in
(23:23):
place to assess the risk of a relationship prior to
entering into that relationship. That's a process that we've always
followed that fin Wise, so we feel very confident in
the recipe that we've developed to select the right fintech partners.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
No it's good and it's you have to be thorough.
It is any partnership you get into as a representation
of your brand and an extension of your organization. So
everything you described definitely makes sense of why you want
to make sure you're doing the amount of diligence that
you described. So let me wrap. I always like to
as we come to the end, kind of three quick
quick questions. The first is, tell me, is there a
(24:02):
tech or an app that you just right now? You
can't live without that? It is just part of your
kind of day to day that is kind of your
your go to right now.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
I mean, look, it's gonna sound various, you're a typical,
but I don't think I could live without my phone.
Right This is where I conduct business. This is how
I talk to my family, that's abroad. It's how I
manage my finances, It's how I I you know, even now,
it's how I pay right. I honestly can't remember the
last time I walked out with my wallet.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
I have my phone.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
It's enough to do everything so that that piece of technology,
unfortunately has become pretty critical to my life.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yeah, you'll walk out of the house without a not
bring a driver's license or a wallet or anything like that.
But if you walk out without your phone, you're heading
back yet.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
One hundred percent you feel naked without it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Now, so my second question is, you know, we're financial services.
It's a risk based business. We all have to manage
risk if you're in financial services and so and sometimes
you have to make internal risks for career or just
kind of business decisions. Can you share an instance where
you think you had to make a risk or a
bold decision and what did you learn, What was the
(25:14):
outcome of doing that?
Speaker 4 (25:16):
Yeah, so, you know, I think the biggest risk that
I took in my career was to switch over to
fin Wise. Right when I started at cross River, I
didn't have that consideration of is the bank small, is
it big? It was an internship and I was very young,
so I didn't have to consider those things. But by
(25:38):
the time I left cross River, it was a very
established player in the space, right, and so when that
opportunity came up at finn Wise, it would have been
or it was to go back to very much being
in the trenches. A lot of it has not been
stood up yet. It's recreating a business line from scratch.
(26:00):
And that was a risk, but I think it's somewhat
what keeps me going in my career. I love being
the guy that is standing up new stuff that you know,
is trying to figure it out, that that is deep
into trenches. It's it's truly what I enjoy. So the
switch to finn Wise definitely solidified that I'm this guy
(26:22):
that is super happy with new established company and you know,
being a jack of all trades as opposed to just
being an employee number at a company as big as
Bank of America for instance.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Now you're looking at it, it sounds like you thrive
in that fast paced environment. Now good to hear. And
then the last is is we think about twenty twenty four,
any bold predictions of what you think might happen, and
you know, over the next eighteen to twenty four months.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
I think we'll start to see an even more dramatic
rise in the use of artificial intelligence. Lending has somewhat
embraced it already. I mean a lot of marketplace lenders
now use artificial intelligence based proprietary models, but I think
we'll see it even more in other areas. I could
(27:12):
see a tremendous rise in the use of neural nets
for anti fraud solutions, for instance, for KYC solutions that
use extremely non traditional data sources. Right now, if you're
looking at fraud, you know, or transaction monitoring, it is
using financial service data. I could see, you know, neural
(27:34):
nets being created that are pulling from news or pulling
from social media, that are pulling from past to usage
across various financial institutions.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
So I think we'll see.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
That, and of course we'll see the rise of artificial
intelligence for more operational efficiency and for improving the accuracy
of the models that we already have in place today.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
And you know, I'll wrap up with this.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
I could, you know, give your predictions all day long,
but I'll wrap up with this. I think big tech
will eat at the market shares even more than they
are right now as it pertains to fintech. You know,
if we look at Apple, I think it's a great
use case of how big tech can can you know,
(28:21):
try to penetrate that fintech industry. They started with an
Apple card. It was a partnership with Golden Sacs. We
knew that Golden Sax wanted to penetrate the consumer market,
and at first it was like this is a natural
evolution for Apple, but then it was by now pay later.
Now it's payment processing right. iPhones and iPads for the
(28:43):
past six months have been able to process card payments
on device. So I think big tech have seen that
fintech is extremely interesting and that there is a play
for them, right. Amazon is another great use case. I mean,
Amazon has been an extremely vocal adversary of interchange fees
(29:05):
in the States. We could see a world where Amazon
is creating their own payments hub. They may be creating
their own neo bank, you know. I think this will
happen sooner rather than later. I don't think this is
a multi decade opportunity for those big techs. I think
this is something that they're actively working on right now.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yeah, you're seeing just different organizations cross traditional boundaries of
where you wouldn't think that they would be doing business.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
But it just do is.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Financial services is kind of ingrained in a lot of
those components. So we'll we'll look forward to checking back
in and saying and some of your predictions. Simon, thank
you so much for taking the time today. I've enjoyed
the conversation. Learning a little bit more about your background
and your journey and appreciate the insights today perfect.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Thank you so much, Ed, I appreciate it.
Speaker 5 (29:55):
Up Start partners with banks and credit unions to help
grow their consumer loan port and deliver a modern, all
digital lending experience. As the average consumer becomes more digitally savvy,
it only makes sense that their bank does too. Upstart's
AI lending platform uses sophisticated machine learning models to more
accurately identify risk and approve more applicants than traditional credit models.
(30:19):
With fraud rates near zero, upstarts all digital experience reduces
manual processing for banks and offers a simple and convenient
experience for consumers. Whether you're looking to grow and enhance
your existing personal and auto lending programs or you're just
getting started, Upstart can help. Upstart offers an end to
end solution that can help you find more credit worthy
(30:41):
borrowers within your risk profile. With all digital underwriting, onboarding,
loan closing, and servicing, It's all possible with Upstart in
your quarter. Learn more about finding new borrowers, enhancing your
credit decisioning process, and growing your business by visiting upstart
dot com slash for dash bank that's Upstart dot com
(31:02):
slash board dash banks.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
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