December 8, 2025 • 16 mins
In this conversation, Lars Brunes discusses Genius Yield's innovative approach to decentralized exchanges (DEXs) through Smart Liquidity Vaults. The discussion covers the advantages of order book systems over automated market makers (AMMs), the mechanics of how Smart Liquidity Vaults operate, the role of oracles in price determination, and the challenges faced in attracting liquidity providers and users. The conversation emphasizes the potential benefits of this new system for liquidity providers and traders alike.
Takeaways
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Genius Yield and Smart Liquidity Vaults
02:40 Understanding Order Book vs AMM DEXs
05:38 How Smart Liquidity Vaults Work
08:10 The Role of Oracles in Pricing
10:57 Challenges and Solutions in Liquidity Provisioning
14:00 Advantages of Genius Yield's Approach
DISCLAIMER: This content is for informational and educational purposes only and is not financial, investment, or legal advice. I am not affiliated with, nor compensated by, the project discussed—no tokens, payments, or incentives received. I do not hold a stake in the project, including private or future allocations. All views are my own, based on public information. Always do your own research and consult a licensed advisor before investing. Crypto investments carry high risk, and past performance is no guarantee of future results. I am not responsible for any decisions you make based on this content.
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Subscribe to the audio podcast:
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Follow on Social:
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Takeaways
- Genius Yield offers an order book style DEX on Cardano.
- Smart Liquidity Vaults simplify liquidity provision.
- Order book systems can be more efficient than AMMs.
- Liquidity providers can set prices in both directions.
- Oracles play a crucial role in price adjustments.
- Centralization of oracles poses risks.
- The success of DEXs relies on user engagement.
- Genius Yield aims to reduce impermanent loss for liquidity providers.
- Theoretical advantages exist for order book systems on Cardano.
- Marketing efforts are needed to attract users and liquidity.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Genius Yield and Smart Liquidity Vaults
02:40 Understanding Order Book vs AMM DEXs
05:38 How Smart Liquidity Vaults Work
08:10 The Role of Oracles in Pricing
10:57 Challenges and Solutions in Liquidity Provisioning
14:00 Advantages of Genius Yield's Approach
DISCLAIMER: This content is for informational and educational purposes only and is not financial, investment, or legal advice. I am not affiliated with, nor compensated by, the project discussed—no tokens, payments, or incentives received. I do not hold a stake in the project, including private or future allocations. All views are my own, based on public information. Always do your own research and consult a licensed advisor before investing. Crypto investments carry high risk, and past performance is no guarantee of future results. I am not responsible for any decisions you make based on this content.
🔗 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq8FhvxET2k
Subscribe to the audio podcast:
🔗 https://bit.ly/learncardano-spotify
🔗 https://apple.co/3jEPM8C
🔗 https://learncardano.io/
Follow on Social:
🔗 https://x.com/learncardano
🔗 https://facebook.com/learncardano
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Genior c Yield is one of my favorite DEXes on
the Kadana ecosystem, and it's because it's an order book
style dex and it's got a couple advantages on there
compared to the regular AMM ones. And this interview, I've
got Las Brunez joining me on the episode to talk
through some new upgrades and advantaures that they have put
into the platform with smart liquidity vaults. It's making your
(00:23):
liquidity do some work on the platform and this is
pretty cool. So let's get into the details here.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
What I want to know about smart Liquidity vaults is
what exactly is it? But how does it work? And
why do we need something like this?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Okay? Can I ask answer the last question first? We needed? Yeah? Right?
So the I mean there are these two different paradigms
of how to do a des on card on any blockchain.
For the better, I mean, the far more common one
is these auto meta market maker DEXes like I mean
(01:03):
that we're pioneered by unisport and where for a given
token pair, you have one pool and people can provide
liquidity to that pool, and then when you trade, I
mean you take out from one side and put in
on the other side, and the people that put liquidity
in they do their interest is that each time basically
(01:23):
with each trade, the basically the amount in the pool,
the total amount is increased a little bit. So that's
basically when they take their liquidity out again, then for
each trade that happened, they they have made some profit.
And that's very nice for I mean, it's nice and
easy for them because you just do that once you
add liquidity to a pool, and then you can walk
(01:44):
away and come back later I mean a month later
or a year later and collect your money. So that
is very nice with these amm des. However, in the
like competing paradigm that Genius Yield actually does, this order book,
which like at least theoretically has a lot of advantages.
I mean, first of all, it's basically what happens in
(02:04):
the real world, like a New York stock stock exchange
for example, is order book based. I mean, there is
no AMM pools. So in principle or in theory, it
should be much easier to I mean, it should be
much more efficient market and therefore also more lucrative for
liquidity providers. But the problem is that like technically how
(02:26):
it worked in the past that genie see it was
it was quite involved to ath liquidity because in principle,
I mean, I mean I'm not a finance expert by
any means, but my understanding is that there's a whole
industry of liquidity providing for like traditional stock markets. So
I mean that's like a profession and you need highly
trained professionals to do that. So basically you have to
(02:48):
like all the time adjust your positions. So if the
price moves, you have to like shift liquidity put it
at a different price, and so you have to actively
manage that basically, I mean. And the upside is that
you can make a lot more money, but the downside
is that, I mean, you really need to know what
you're doing, and you basically have to sit in front
of your computer all the time. Obviously you could also
(03:10):
have I suppose some automatic system, but that system would
then need to be online and you have to set
it up. So that means that even though we try
to make it as easy as possible for people to
provide liquidity for Genius Yield, that never really took off.
I mean, we had these market makeup boards that people
could run, but I mean even for that, in principle,
(03:31):
you would at least need some technical expertise to I
mean to know how to run thing. And then you
have to keep your either run it on a server
or have your laptop online. And why this is going on?
And now the so the problem we are trying to
solve is basically make providing liquidity on an order bookstack
(03:51):
as easy as it is to provide liquidity on an
amm dex. That's just right. And then I don't know
what the first and second question was, but one is
how it works and what it is. So how it works,
it's actually very simple, I mean extremely simple. I mean
(04:11):
what we had until now this is what we call
partial orders. So you place an order for a token pair,
you put money of one of the members of that
pair in and then people can and you set the price,
and then people can take that out and pay the price,
and then at some point it's depleted and the order
is closed or you can cancel it. And so basically
what is smart liquidity water is we also call it
(04:35):
two way order. So the only difference is basically you
have like you potentially both tokens in this ut ex.
If it's whatever Ada jens, then you you don't have
to decide to sell Ada and get Gens, or you
sell Jens and get Ada. But you can put Ada
in and Jens and you set the price in both directions,
(04:55):
and then people can use it in both directions, so
they can I mean like in a but at a
price that you set. So it's not this automatic constant
product formula like on AMM, but instead you set the price,
and that would be already nice to have, I think,
but of course still if the if the price of
(05:17):
the pair shifts, then you would still need to manually
adjust the price, so that would still not be automatic.
So that's why we have like two different ways in
which you can run them. So you can indeed set
a fixed price in both directions, but you can also
set a relative price where you say something like sell
(05:38):
at one percent above market price and buy at one
percent below market price, and then use an oracle so
that you don't have to as long as you are
happy with this one percent in my example, you don't
have to do anything. Basically, at any given time, we
use an oracle to determine the current market price and
(05:58):
then add the percentage or subduct the percentage, and then
it's it's taken, and that means from a usability point
of view, it should be as easy as it is
at an AMM dex. So you just do that once
you place liquidity, and then you can walk away and
and you come back at some point and there's more
(06:19):
than hopefully than you put in there originally, right, I
mean that obvious depends if nobody trades. I mean that's
the same on AMM des. If nobody uses the pool,
then you also don't make money there. And of course
the advantage over AMM is that, I mean, first of all,
it's more configurable because you can set these prices I
mean the percentage for example, and it doesn't have this,
(06:41):
I mean these notorious problems that axes up with the
what's it called no that too, but I mean that
is solved by the order book anyway, impermanent loss. So
that and and the fact that you have concentrated liquidity
on an order book decks, whereas I mean the problem
(07:03):
with ammdex is always because they basically cover an infinite
price range from zero to infinity, most of the money
is just sitting there and not really active. Whereas when
you like our system now with this one percent for example,
it's basically always close to the market price. So so somehow,
at least in theory, your liquidity should be put to
(07:26):
better use and therefore give you more yield. I mean
that more trades happen.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Okay, I'm just trying to visualize that idea. I'm just
trying to visualize part of that. And when you're putting
liquidity into the order, but you're essentially setting the price
of those two tokens gens and aid it. So setting
it to trade at a certain price. Is that great
with the one.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Percent that I think right? I mean that I forgot
to mention. So at a liquidity pool, the way it
works is, I mean you must put both sides in,
and the ratio in which put them in determines the price.
If so, you can't just put arbitrary amounts in. The
ratio must be correct to reflect the current price in
(08:10):
a in auder. So for example, if if if in
a perfect word, one gence would be worth one eight,
then in an amm dex you would need to put
the same amount of aida in gens in in the beginning,
and then it just automatically with this constant product formula
and with our SLVs that's not there there's no requirement
(08:31):
on any relation between the two amounts because you explicitly
set the price. So you could say, okay, I want
use a price of I mean, if you don't use
this orcle if you use a fixed price. You could say,
I want to use a price of one, but I
happen to have one hundred eight but only ten gens,
so I put one hundred eight and ten gents in.
So the ratio of what you put in doesn't need
(08:52):
to be related to the actual price. So that's one
additional advantage.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
I think, okay, so I can set the tokens at
a fixed price. Or when when you say oracle, do
you mean the fluctuating price of the oracle, So that
as the price of the oracle changes the feed in
the article, so does the value that my token might
be training at me.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Yes, So for example, you're understood, I mean that is right,
Otherwise you would still need to constantly monitor it and
and by hand Somemmer's change the price. Yeah, So if
the current prices, I mean, you just say whatever, I
sell one percent above market price and I buy one
percent below market price or something. So then if the
(09:37):
oracle says okay at the moment the market price is one,
then you would sell one hundred gents for one hundred
and one ADA, and you would in the other whatever
you're a month. Yeah, so that's the idea. And then
if if the oracle changes, then automatically that I mean,
the price ad just much.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Okay, that that now that makes more sense. There's some
sort of level of automation there, because the oracle feed
is coming in making the price fluctuate, having that external
input actually execute it. All right, So what what oracles
is this using to make that work?
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Right? That's sort of the the not so nice part.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yeah, is it centralized? Decently? Fall over? Will my order
is like break?
Speaker 3 (10:27):
You know that kind of thing, right exactly? So yeah,
that that is like the not so nice part. It's not.
I mean, it's basically centralized. So I mean, the smart
contract is flexible. So basically it just I mean, when
you create the order, you specify the pub key hash
or the public key of of the oracle, and then
when you when somebody wants to fill he needs to
(10:48):
present a certificate signed by that public key that states Okay,
at the moment, the price is whatever it is. So
in principle, it's if anybody could provide an oracle, but
I mean, for pragmatic reasons, at the moment, that's basically
our own public key. So genius here will provide the price.
And of course we also, I mean we must forget it,
(11:10):
so we will use providers like tab tools or Charlie three,
and ideally I mean at least two so that if
there's a discrepancy or if one of them is down,
we can stop it, so that if there's a technical glitch.
I mean that's admittedly not so nice. I think there
are ways to in future make that matter and use
(11:30):
like a fully decentralized oracle. I mean, one idea I
had was one could, for example, get the price from
the competition, like just look at at a specific pool
on minspop for example. And I mean because of the
as we said, the ratio of the tokens in the
pool determines the current price. So it would be reasonably
(11:51):
easier I think to use just a reference input on
maybe not just one competitor but several, and then average
that or something. So I think in principle it's possible
to do it decentralized. Of course, they are also decentralized
ocids on Cardano at the moment. The problem is just
that would have been prohibitively expensive because I think you
have to pay them each time you want an update,
(12:13):
and we need like an update every minute for like
thirty token pairs. That's why we went with this semi
centralized route for the moment. And of course, I mean
that means there is I mean, if we report the
wrong price, then obviously people could lose money, and there's
nothing in a smart contract obviously that can prevent that.
(12:35):
But I think it's not too bad because at least
everything is public on the blockchain, so when a phil happens,
then there is like the certificate is like publicly there
on the blockchain where we said, at the moment, the
prices this, So I mean that, I mean it would
be like suicide for us to mess that up. So
that's like the idea why people don't want.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
To be training at the wrong price, especially providing their
trades exactly executive worth. Okay, that's great, So we've got
an idea of how we can automate the liquidity that
we put onto the decks. That's fantastic. We can see
how the oracles work and that all ties in. What
about the actual usage side. So it's great that I
put in the quidity and make it really easy and
(13:20):
make it do some work, But you also need users
on the other side using the decks and trading through
the platform as well. So one you've got to get
more people using genius yield, and two you need the
decks aggregated integrations.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
As well to make sure they're all working.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
And tied in with all this. How is how's that
all the.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
I mean that is obviously like a chicken egg problem.
It's actually as you mentioned, it's three parties right use
as lictidity, providers and aggregators, So it's chicken egg And
I don't know, hen House. I mean, this is obviously
a problem. I mean I don't really ever good answer
to that except for the best that I mean that
(14:03):
I mean, obviously we'll try to do some marketing now
for the SRVs that people try it out. And I
mean I have no idea how these things work. I
mean why sometimes it works and one it doesn't. I mean,
I mean obviously you need I mean, nobody will provide
liquidity if there are no users, and nobody will use
it if there's no liquidity, And no aggregator will be
(14:23):
interested if there are no users, So I mean you
need somehow to kick started. So hopefully like the initial
excitement that this is now there and people try it
out and then hopefully I mean, if it works nicely,
then hopefully that will I mean spread, the word will
spread and then more people will use it. I don't know, actually,
I mean what else to do about that?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah? Just true, but that there are already some big advantages.
One no in permanent loss like that. That one catches
out people all the time they're putting liquid to an
AMM deck. Then a year later they pulled things out
and they go where all my aither go. It got
liquidated through the main coin, that's why. And then the
other thing the batchers. I know a lot of the
DEXes out there now have reduced the batcher's feed down
(15:05):
to almost nothing free. But you know that was always
an issue because it into the profits as well. For
people who trade as the batches there will take a
bit of fee or whatever, so it costs more to
actually train those platforms. But that's pretty much cleared up
now these days, and with audible texes makes it even better.
So I think there's some really good advantages there overall,
(15:27):
So if people are interested, they can try out the
platform provide equity and see how it goes, to see
how much more revenue they can generate and put their
liquidity that opens.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
To work, right, Yes, exactly, I mean I agree, I think,
I mean there's a lot of theoretical advantage justice autobook system.
I think it's just for cut downa just on like
philosophical grounds. Almost it's it's like a better fit because
I mean, of the utx or model, it just fits
better to have each order in one utix or. And
(15:59):
also like for preyerical reasons, like financial reasons, it should
be much more efficient and that people can I mean
traits can be better and cheaper, and and also liquidity
to provide us should get a higher yield. But of
course we need the users for that sort of hope
is that, I mean, the technical advantages will convince people
(16:20):
to try it all.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Right, I think it's cross well as thank you for
joining on the podcast episode to talk true smart liquidly
about to what regards have improved on this. It sounds
pretty exciting. I will give it a go myself and
do some tools so people can have an idea of
how it all works. Thank you for joining me. It's
been a pleasure talking to you again.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
It's been a pleasure for me. Thank you very much
for having me take care of thank you, thank.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
You Las, thank you let me at the stop.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Bun
Genior c Yield is one of my favorite DEXes on
the Kadana ecosystem, and it's because it's an order book
style dex and it's got a couple advantages on there
compared to the regular AMM ones. And this interview, I've
got Las Brunez joining me on the episode to talk
through some new upgrades and advantaures that they have put
into the platform with smart liquidity vaults. It's making your
(00:23):
liquidity do some work on the platform and this is
pretty cool. So let's get into the details here.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
What I want to know about smart Liquidity vaults is
what exactly is it? But how does it work? And
why do we need something like this?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Okay? Can I ask answer the last question first? We needed? Yeah? Right?
So the I mean there are these two different paradigms
of how to do a des on card on any blockchain.
For the better, I mean, the far more common one
is these auto meta market maker DEXes like I mean
(01:03):
that we're pioneered by unisport and where for a given
token pair, you have one pool and people can provide
liquidity to that pool, and then when you trade, I
mean you take out from one side and put in
on the other side, and the people that put liquidity
in they do their interest is that each time basically
(01:23):
with each trade, the basically the amount in the pool,
the total amount is increased a little bit. So that's
basically when they take their liquidity out again, then for
each trade that happened, they they have made some profit.
And that's very nice for I mean, it's nice and
easy for them because you just do that once you
add liquidity to a pool, and then you can walk
(01:44):
away and come back later I mean a month later
or a year later and collect your money. So that
is very nice with these amm des. However, in the
like competing paradigm that Genius Yield actually does, this order book,
which like at least theoretically has a lot of advantages.
I mean, first of all, it's basically what happens in
(02:04):
the real world, like a New York stock stock exchange
for example, is order book based. I mean, there is
no AMM pools. So in principle or in theory, it
should be much easier to I mean, it should be
much more efficient market and therefore also more lucrative for
liquidity providers. But the problem is that like technically how
(02:26):
it worked in the past that genie see it was
it was quite involved to ath liquidity because in principle,
I mean, I mean I'm not a finance expert by
any means, but my understanding is that there's a whole
industry of liquidity providing for like traditional stock markets. So
I mean that's like a profession and you need highly
trained professionals to do that. So basically you have to
(02:48):
like all the time adjust your positions. So if the
price moves, you have to like shift liquidity put it
at a different price, and so you have to actively
manage that basically, I mean. And the upside is that
you can make a lot more money, but the downside
is that, I mean, you really need to know what
you're doing, and you basically have to sit in front
of your computer all the time. Obviously you could also
(03:10):
have I suppose some automatic system, but that system would
then need to be online and you have to set
it up. So that means that even though we try
to make it as easy as possible for people to
provide liquidity for Genius Yield, that never really took off.
I mean, we had these market makeup boards that people
could run, but I mean even for that, in principle,
(03:31):
you would at least need some technical expertise to I
mean to know how to run thing. And then you
have to keep your either run it on a server
or have your laptop online. And why this is going on?
And now the so the problem we are trying to
solve is basically make providing liquidity on an order bookstack
(03:51):
as easy as it is to provide liquidity on an
amm dex. That's just right. And then I don't know
what the first and second question was, but one is
how it works and what it is. So how it works,
it's actually very simple, I mean extremely simple. I mean
(04:11):
what we had until now this is what we call
partial orders. So you place an order for a token pair,
you put money of one of the members of that
pair in and then people can and you set the price,
and then people can take that out and pay the price,
and then at some point it's depleted and the order
is closed or you can cancel it. And so basically
what is smart liquidity water is we also call it
(04:35):
two way order. So the only difference is basically you
have like you potentially both tokens in this ut ex.
If it's whatever Ada jens, then you you don't have
to decide to sell Ada and get Gens, or you
sell Jens and get Ada. But you can put Ada
in and Jens and you set the price in both directions,
(04:55):
and then people can use it in both directions, so
they can I mean like in a but at a
price that you set. So it's not this automatic constant
product formula like on AMM, but instead you set the price,
and that would be already nice to have, I think,
but of course still if the if the price of
(05:17):
the pair shifts, then you would still need to manually
adjust the price, so that would still not be automatic.
So that's why we have like two different ways in
which you can run them. So you can indeed set
a fixed price in both directions, but you can also
set a relative price where you say something like sell
(05:38):
at one percent above market price and buy at one
percent below market price, and then use an oracle so
that you don't have to as long as you are
happy with this one percent in my example, you don't
have to do anything. Basically, at any given time, we
use an oracle to determine the current market price and
(05:58):
then add the percentage or subduct the percentage, and then
it's it's taken, and that means from a usability point
of view, it should be as easy as it is
at an AMM dex. So you just do that once
you place liquidity, and then you can walk away and
and you come back at some point and there's more
(06:19):
than hopefully than you put in there originally, right, I
mean that obvious depends if nobody trades. I mean that's
the same on AMM des. If nobody uses the pool,
then you also don't make money there. And of course
the advantage over AMM is that, I mean, first of all,
it's more configurable because you can set these prices I
mean the percentage for example, and it doesn't have this,
(06:41):
I mean these notorious problems that axes up with the
what's it called no that too, but I mean that
is solved by the order book anyway, impermanent loss. So
that and and the fact that you have concentrated liquidity
on an order book decks, whereas I mean the problem
(07:03):
with ammdex is always because they basically cover an infinite
price range from zero to infinity, most of the money
is just sitting there and not really active. Whereas when
you like our system now with this one percent for example,
it's basically always close to the market price. So so somehow,
at least in theory, your liquidity should be put to
(07:26):
better use and therefore give you more yield. I mean
that more trades happen.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Okay, I'm just trying to visualize that idea. I'm just
trying to visualize part of that. And when you're putting
liquidity into the order, but you're essentially setting the price
of those two tokens gens and aid it. So setting
it to trade at a certain price. Is that great
with the one.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Percent that I think right? I mean that I forgot
to mention. So at a liquidity pool, the way it
works is, I mean you must put both sides in,
and the ratio in which put them in determines the price.
If so, you can't just put arbitrary amounts in. The
ratio must be correct to reflect the current price in
(08:10):
a in auder. So for example, if if if in
a perfect word, one gence would be worth one eight,
then in an amm dex you would need to put
the same amount of aida in gens in in the beginning,
and then it just automatically with this constant product formula
and with our SLVs that's not there there's no requirement
(08:31):
on any relation between the two amounts because you explicitly
set the price. So you could say, okay, I want
use a price of I mean, if you don't use
this orcle if you use a fixed price. You could say,
I want to use a price of one, but I
happen to have one hundred eight but only ten gens,
so I put one hundred eight and ten gents in.
So the ratio of what you put in doesn't need
(08:52):
to be related to the actual price. So that's one
additional advantage.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
I think, okay, so I can set the tokens at
a fixed price. Or when when you say oracle, do
you mean the fluctuating price of the oracle, So that
as the price of the oracle changes the feed in
the article, so does the value that my token might
be training at me.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Yes, So for example, you're understood, I mean that is right,
Otherwise you would still need to constantly monitor it and
and by hand Somemmer's change the price. Yeah, So if
the current prices, I mean, you just say whatever, I
sell one percent above market price and I buy one
percent below market price or something. So then if the
(09:37):
oracle says okay at the moment the market price is one,
then you would sell one hundred gents for one hundred
and one ADA, and you would in the other whatever
you're a month. Yeah, so that's the idea. And then
if if the oracle changes, then automatically that I mean,
the price ad just much.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Okay, that that now that makes more sense. There's some
sort of level of automation there, because the oracle feed
is coming in making the price fluctuate, having that external
input actually execute it. All right, So what what oracles
is this using to make that work?
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Right? That's sort of the the not so nice part.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yeah, is it centralized? Decently? Fall over? Will my order
is like break?
Speaker 3 (10:27):
You know that kind of thing, right exactly? So yeah,
that that is like the not so nice part. It's not.
I mean, it's basically centralized. So I mean, the smart
contract is flexible. So basically it just I mean, when
you create the order, you specify the pub key hash
or the public key of of the oracle, and then
when you when somebody wants to fill he needs to
(10:48):
present a certificate signed by that public key that states Okay,
at the moment, the price is whatever it is. So
in principle, it's if anybody could provide an oracle, but
I mean, for pragmatic reasons, at the moment, that's basically
our own public key. So genius here will provide the price.
And of course we also, I mean we must forget it,
(11:10):
so we will use providers like tab tools or Charlie three,
and ideally I mean at least two so that if
there's a discrepancy or if one of them is down,
we can stop it, so that if there's a technical glitch.
I mean that's admittedly not so nice. I think there
are ways to in future make that matter and use
(11:30):
like a fully decentralized oracle. I mean, one idea I
had was one could, for example, get the price from
the competition, like just look at at a specific pool
on minspop for example. And I mean because of the
as we said, the ratio of the tokens in the
pool determines the current price. So it would be reasonably
(11:51):
easier I think to use just a reference input on
maybe not just one competitor but several, and then average
that or something. So I think in principle it's possible
to do it decentralized. Of course, they are also decentralized
ocids on Cardano at the moment. The problem is just
that would have been prohibitively expensive because I think you
have to pay them each time you want an update,
(12:13):
and we need like an update every minute for like
thirty token pairs. That's why we went with this semi
centralized route for the moment. And of course, I mean
that means there is I mean, if we report the
wrong price, then obviously people could lose money, and there's
nothing in a smart contract obviously that can prevent that.
(12:35):
But I think it's not too bad because at least
everything is public on the blockchain, so when a phil happens,
then there is like the certificate is like publicly there
on the blockchain where we said, at the moment, the
prices this, So I mean that, I mean it would
be like suicide for us to mess that up. So
that's like the idea why people don't want.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
To be training at the wrong price, especially providing their
trades exactly executive worth. Okay, that's great, So we've got
an idea of how we can automate the liquidity that
we put onto the decks. That's fantastic. We can see
how the oracles work and that all ties in. What
about the actual usage side. So it's great that I
put in the quidity and make it really easy and
(13:20):
make it do some work, But you also need users
on the other side using the decks and trading through
the platform as well. So one you've got to get
more people using genius yield, and two you need the
decks aggregated integrations.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
As well to make sure they're all working.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
And tied in with all this. How is how's that
all the.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
I mean that is obviously like a chicken egg problem.
It's actually as you mentioned, it's three parties right use
as lictidity, providers and aggregators, So it's chicken egg And
I don't know, hen House. I mean, this is obviously
a problem. I mean I don't really ever good answer
to that except for the best that I mean that
(14:03):
I mean, obviously we'll try to do some marketing now
for the SRVs that people try it out. And I
mean I have no idea how these things work. I
mean why sometimes it works and one it doesn't. I mean,
I mean obviously you need I mean, nobody will provide
liquidity if there are no users, and nobody will use
it if there's no liquidity, And no aggregator will be
(14:23):
interested if there are no users, So I mean you
need somehow to kick started. So hopefully like the initial
excitement that this is now there and people try it
out and then hopefully I mean, if it works nicely,
then hopefully that will I mean spread, the word will
spread and then more people will use it. I don't know, actually,
I mean what else to do about that?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah? Just true, but that there are already some big advantages.
One no in permanent loss like that. That one catches
out people all the time they're putting liquid to an
AMM deck. Then a year later they pulled things out
and they go where all my aither go. It got
liquidated through the main coin, that's why. And then the
other thing the batchers. I know a lot of the
DEXes out there now have reduced the batcher's feed down
(15:05):
to almost nothing free. But you know that was always
an issue because it into the profits as well. For
people who trade as the batches there will take a
bit of fee or whatever, so it costs more to
actually train those platforms. But that's pretty much cleared up
now these days, and with audible texes makes it even better.
So I think there's some really good advantages there overall,
(15:27):
So if people are interested, they can try out the
platform provide equity and see how it goes, to see
how much more revenue they can generate and put their
liquidity that opens.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
To work, right, Yes, exactly, I mean I agree, I think,
I mean there's a lot of theoretical advantage justice autobook system.
I think it's just for cut downa just on like
philosophical grounds. Almost it's it's like a better fit because
I mean, of the utx or model, it just fits
better to have each order in one utix or. And
(15:59):
also like for preyerical reasons, like financial reasons, it should
be much more efficient and that people can I mean
traits can be better and cheaper, and and also liquidity
to provide us should get a higher yield. But of
course we need the users for that sort of hope
is that, I mean, the technical advantages will convince people
(16:20):
to try it all.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Right, I think it's cross well as thank you for
joining on the podcast episode to talk true smart liquidly
about to what regards have improved on this. It sounds
pretty exciting. I will give it a go myself and
do some tools so people can have an idea of
how it all works. Thank you for joining me. It's
been a pleasure talking to you again.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
It's been a pleasure for me. Thank you very much
for having me take care of thank you, thank.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
You Las, thank you let me at the stop.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Bun
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