Legends Library: Galactic Women of Legends Day

Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
You're listening to Legends Library. Nowhere's your host. He's a mountaineer and
Kyle Rawlins. Hi, everybody.I'm Lisa, and I'm Kyle. I'm

(00:24):
Catherine, and I'm Crinthia, andyou're listening to and watching Legends Library.
We are a podcast dedicated to theLegends line of the Star Wars books and
the expanded universe. Who and wehave two guests tonight because we are celebrating
the women of Legends that We're goingto go through authors and all the amazing
butt kicking female characters in Star WarsLegend because there's so many, and I

(00:49):
thought, why not ask these twoamazing people who we both know, to
come on and to talk about them. So Catherine first, if we can
get a little bit of an updateabout Legends call, and then Corinthia is
going to talk a bit more aboutthe tickets. Guys. Yeah, So
last time I was on here,I think we didn't have I don't think

(01:11):
we'd announced our first guest yet evenum. Yeah, so we have so
far signed on Sean Stewart, whowrote Yoda Dark Rendezvous, Karna Betchko,
who was the writer for Legacy Volumetwo, and Drum roll Randy Stradley,
which I am so excited for.I we don't have time to list everything

(01:34):
that he did with Star Wars.We'll be here all night. But yes,
so that's super exciting. Yeah,Kyle gestures to the entire collections behind
him. Yeah, yeah, sothat's a really great Things are chugging along.
We are doing ticket sales soon,which Crinthia will talk about. But

(01:57):
yeah, new and exciting things arehappening every day. And just remind everyone
it's September ninth and tenth in Burbank, California. Yes, yeah, so
tickets will be on sale hopefully verysoon. We've been working pretty tirelessly on
getting that ready for everybody. Wewill be running an early bird special for

(02:19):
the first month or so, maybetwo months, so you might to get
on it quickly because we're gonna havesome pretty good prices for you, guys,
So stay tuned and keep your eyespeeled. Yeah, and there's still
the coffee campaign that's going on guys, if you had to check that out,
there's an early bird kind of inthere as well, and plus you
know, little rewards that you canget be pretty cool too. Yeah.

(02:46):
Yeah, yeah, I want toshout out the subscriber benefits on that because
we only have four people signed upfor that so far. And if you
are subscribing at ten dollars in moreor month, you get an exclusive art
piece or sticker that sort of thingum designed by Rkel I don't know how

(03:06):
to pronounce his last name, umpungent cherry press. Ye, he's making
cool, cool little Legends art piecesevery month for those of us, those
who are subscribing, so definitely worthit, which is awesome. Like,
guys, how often can you getlegend stuff anymore? You can't, So
this is the way to get itfor us. I don't know, I'm

(03:29):
so excited. I mean, Ican't help but talk all the time about
it now, you know, people, my friends are just getting a little
like, Okay, that's nice.So it's not that I've planned my outfits,
but like, let's be real,we've all planned our outfits at the
first point. Yeah, so wellyou guys are gonna costume, Kyle,

(03:53):
do you know what you're gonna bewearing? I have a couple of ideas,
not nearly as definitive as confidences soundedthere, but a couple of ideas.
Yes, Oh and Kyle, couldyou give us a bit of an
update now on Supernatural Encounters? Howit's going so far, so good.

(04:15):
There was some confusion with the website, um Joy addressed all that. Yeah,
they're a hard drive failure to putit simply, and so that that
got out of the way now andwe're expecting April for everything being shipped out
to everyone super stoked for it.Hyeh's um yeah, yeah, Kyle has

(04:44):
been pretty secretive about everything, andlike I was trying to get I have
it every time. I'm like justa little something. I am going to
pick on you today for one ofthe first characters we're going to cover,
because timeline, you know, Ido think my time. Yeah, So,
but I thought we would kind ofgo into the author's first of legend

(05:05):
because there's so many amazing female authors. So I thought we would start with
our favorite gender Semma who we reallywant to come to the con, like,
please come if you're if you're listening, please come if we're celebrating you
know, yeah, yeah exactly,we have. We haven't officially invited guy,

(05:26):
we haven't like, yeah, wellthis is this is kind of work
we're focusing on, Like the localguests first, remember, yeah, yeah,
but you know, I think Patrickand everybody brand at least put her
in the link, and you know, if she happens to see this video
and it's just likely emailed us,so exactly right. Was amazing that yeah,

(05:55):
yeah, yeah, listeners, RandyStrideley actually contacted us to participate.
It wasn't no appreci out to him. We were all just like, what
much has happened? It's good thathe did too, because we could not
find his contact Infomi said. Hewas like, yeah, I know that,
I'm like not easy to contact thesedays, and it was like,
yeah, we we tried to findyou, like I managed to stalk a

(06:18):
bunch of other people online to findthe gamail addresses, but he was a
digital ghost. Yeah yeah, We'restill stalking some other other guys. So
there will be more coming down theline, and we got more things announced
coming. But you know, again, today we're focusing on the women's of
legends, and because it's we're celebratingInternational Women's Day, so why not,

(06:41):
why not let's talk about this.So going back to Jander Semma, so
I mean, what really can wesay about her other than the fact that
she did Legacy and Dawna the Jedicomics, which are phenomenal, phenomenal comics,
like she wrote and penciled it,Like her talent is just a phenomenal
Like, what are some things thatyou like about her her work? I

(07:08):
really like. I mean, mymy favorite being this is Me in my
Little Jedi Box as usual. Um. I just love the Republic era stuff
that she did all the Jedi series. Um yeah, yeah, those are
fun. I was reading the oneshot comic where that she did with when
Han Solo met Quinlin, and it'ssuch a funny little story of him still

(07:30):
being like the Force isn't real eventhough he just witnessed Quinlin. Boss,
like you do all these fource tricksand like save him and like find his
lightsaber and kill some guys. He'slike, yeah whatever, like typical Han
like sire, but like, yeah, Jan's Jan's art is. I actually

(07:51):
was just talking to Patrick about this. Um. Patrick's another person working on
Legends Gone and Supernatural Encounters blah blahblah. Um. I had posted on
her public Facebook a like one ofthe you know Facebook memories kind of things
of a page from Donna the Jediand the pencil work on it. It's
just so amazing. And Patrick andI were having a conversation yet again about

(08:16):
how we would love to see likejust the pencil version of these comics published
because the detail is just so amazing. Yeah, does she sell any of
her like just originals or I don'tknow, Yeah, look at that,
Look at that beauty right there?Issue zero Yeah, first figured c and

(08:43):
like especially with legacy, like itin itself has a huge following, and
like where would we be without it? I don't know, Like we got
that continuation of like Kate Skywalker,which is really awesome, but they ended
a ship or by having it beSolo fell Yeah yeah, yeah, but

(09:09):
it's one of those blessings we gotbefore you know, everything wrapped up,
and that was definitely a blessing.There are such things. Yeah, didn't
she also kind of create Alo Securakind of like I can't remember if it
was she was in the movie firstand then she created the character. Most
they were she was from the comicsfirst. I believe it was Quinlan who

(09:31):
was in episode one first and thenthey made him an actual character. Yeah
yeah, but yeah, ela Elais from and that's kind of every now
and then want to hear people arguingthat, like, oh, you know,
like Lucas never paid any attention towhat was going on in the books
and comics. It's like ala andyeah exactly, like even though yeah,

(09:56):
there's there's photos of him on setwith the EU guy, you know,
like you know what I'm saying,cors does Corressant mean anything that? Thanks?
You know, I heard that thereason that the pronunciation changed on Corrisant

(10:20):
from how it had been in theaudio books before Phantom Menace was that like
prold Drake Lloyd and being a kidlike could not pronounce it the way that
it had been pronounced in the audiobooks, and that's that's what led to
that change. How was it pronounced? I don't remember. It's not like
I was listening to them at thatpoint because I was a five year old.

(10:43):
Um I thought it was yes fromfrom which Okay, as you can
see, a small child would havea lot of problems trying to pronounce them.
Yeah, those are some crunchy syllables. Well maybe he wasn't chosen one.
Sorry, you can't say that rightnow, fair, Yeah, there's

(11:07):
out there about about mister Lloyd.So yeah, Star Wars's life, so
yeah, yeah, I'm not gonnaadd to it anymore than a little bit,
but forget hopefully he's staying okay,But I mean it just sounds right
corson that cosecant like live on acapital scant like it reminds me of poop,

(11:31):
Like I don't know. Well nowI'm wondering, like how they're plumbing
works on this city planet like that, like where does their wastewater? But
anyways, off, yeah, we'regonna talk about women and we're talking about
poop. I'm sorry, are wetalking about? What does corresons plumbing?

(11:56):
Like? Oh, it's it's therocket gun, isn't it. Isn't that
In the beginning of Roadue Planet?When um, when isn't it? When
Anakin's like, because there's this wholething he's like in in the ship basically
excuse oh, excuse me, youhave to I'll put a blaster bowl over
that. We have sensors for forthose. Don't worry everybody. I'm so

(12:16):
sorry. Hey, hey, anyway, yeah, mark that and forgive me.
I just definitely got lost. Butanyway, um, yeah, Rogue
Planet. When the book opens andhe's he's in that cannon and it fires
off the waists into the suns.Really oh man, Yeah, I barely

(12:39):
remember that part, but yeah,yeah, And it's one of those if
it's been a while since I've readit. But all the same, like
Obi Wan's just kind of like Ithink he remembers, so it's kind of
like, oh, you were downthere again, Like you're supposed to be
studying and you're down there, dudeplaying chicken with parts of the of the

(13:00):
world Gun whatever it was called,I cannot remember off the top of my
head, but yeah, it's shotoff all the ways into chorus songs.
I think maybe I was to rememberthat. It just didn't compute it.
Mostly remember the like the spore creaturesthat like attached themselves. That's that's yeah.
Anyway, anyway, moving on,we digress exactly hard editing a nightline

(13:26):
right, Yeah, no, I'mbelieving it did. Uh. So our
next author, I know, Catherineis probably better to talk about this author
more than anyone. So Jude Watsonor Judy bloomdell Um who did the Jeda
Apprentice series Quest and the last ofthe jedda Um Creative series, Tachi,
and of course Farris who's your favoriteand not a girl but yes, my

(13:50):
favorite, one of my favors.Um. Yeah. One. She also
did a bunch of other young readerbooks, um, like all the Episode
one journals and all that. Atone point I counted, and I'm pretty
sure she has more, Like ifwe just go off of books, I
think she has more than writer Widhams. I think so. I think that

(14:11):
she's the most prolific Star Wars authorin terms of number of books. But
I could be wrong on that becauseyou know, we trying to find out,
like you know, trying to countall of those, and we could
be off on that account a littlebit. But yeah, one of the
things that I really love about herbooks is even though like each series is

(14:33):
definitely like the main characters of itare not women, Like you know,
Jedi Apprentice is quite on an obiWan, Jedi Quest is obi Wan and
Anakin, and then Last of theJedi focuses on Ferris. Primarily, the
vast majority of every character that sheintroduces that's a new character is a woman,

(14:54):
be it villains and side characters,other lead character, um, which
is just so cool, Like there'ssome really awesome like female villains in those
books. Um, Jenna's an especially, It's just like such a funky little
weirdo. Um. Yeah, soI I really enjoy that, and like

(15:20):
you mentioned Serri um, but Ialso really love Bant, who is obi
Wan's moncal like bestie, um,kind of a little sister to him.
Um. And Tal, who isQuigan's friend basically the only person who can
make him shut up and sit down. Um. So you know, the
events of Phantom Menace and everything wecan just blame on the fact that Tal

(15:43):
was no longer allowed around to belike stop it um. But um yeah,
there's just there's so many and like, I love how she also took
characters that we see in the movies, like Audi Gilia and really fleshed her
out more than pretty much anything elsehas. Like she She's in the comics

(16:06):
somewhat, but you know, themost that we see her is in Jedi
power Battles, you remember. Yeah, So I really yeah, I just
I really love, really love herbooks. She's awesome. I think she
has some real death to her storylinesas well that we just don't really grasp

(16:27):
because they're you know, considered likeyoung adults and not stuff that young adults.
They're mill grade. Yeah, theseare books. Yeah, just some
one who did the death of Yattleand well and everyone don't forget that she
did the death of Yattle because everyonenow I was like, oh my god,
yeah, I'll die, but likeas well, we're not going to

(16:48):
talk about that. But her booksare brutal, frankly, like what happens
like with Tal like spoilers um forthose who haven't read out book books that
came out in the early two thousands, Like she ends up blind um,
which is a really interesting Like sooften Star Wars does not really like spend
any time on disability. We justlike hack people's limbs off and then like

(17:12):
they're fine. But she's one ofthe few times that like it's a character
really has to like deal with thisbecause Tal is on a mission and she
is blinded by torture. I guesslike it's the details are a little bit
vague because it is Scholastic chapter books, but like the best I can suss

(17:33):
out is like probably some sort oflike acid burns on her eyes because it
talks about like scarring, so likedark. But then like part of like
Tal really has to like grow asa character because she really doesn't want anybody's
help with anything. Ever, that'sjust sort of who she is as a
person, like having to like keepher identity that way, but still like

(18:00):
realize, you know, like shedoes need to, like she has to
change some things in her life becauseshe is now blind. Um. So
yeah, it's just it's there.There's a lot of really like nuanced characters.
UM, and I really I wouldlove I. I know she is

(18:21):
primary like a middle grade y Aauthor, um, but I think it
would have been really fun if umthe books had been YA rather than middle
grade UM, because it would havegotten a little bit more depth to them,
Like I reread them now, um, and I still love them.
But it's just like, oh,man, like I remember this being like
so much longer. It's just likesuch a little like a little chunk of

(18:42):
something, and it's like, couldthis could have this could have definitely been
like fleshed out more. Um.Yeah, yeah, I'm still oh gosh,
No, No, I didn't havea favorite I can't. I can't
even really I can't even pick afavorite series really like I yeah it's they're

(19:07):
they're all good, I guess,Um, No, no, I can't.
I think one of the crazy complexitiesthat she wrote M was the time
where she witnesses Anakin kill that slaverand that's Siri, and yeah, you

(19:30):
know she doesn't really voice her opinionat that point, which kind of you
know, what would that have done? Had she done that, you would
things have changed when obi Wan hadlistened, Like you know, Anakin really
blows up her entire operation within likefive minutes. Yeah. Um, well

(19:52):
that's that's really like the whole thingwith Anakin, Like the dynamic between Farris
and Anakin, like that's they don'tget along and a lot of that is
and some people, you know,like criticize her and Ferris for this of
like faris you know, being liketo like all knowing kind of thing or
whatever. But it's not like he'sjust he's honestly, he's that like ap

(20:14):
kid with anxiety, honestly, Um, And it's he doesn't he doesn't like
Anakin because Anakin just screws around allthe time, you know, Like Ferris
is very dedicated to being a Jediand his studies and all that kind of
stuff, and Anakin Zeno off playingwith pooped tubes. Um. But there

(20:36):
there's so much like when Ferris leavesthe Jedi Order after everything happens with Dara
m who for those of you whoaren't familiar, Um, basically I would
mostly blame Annakin, but that's mybias. Um. Another Padawan gets killed
because of some shenanigans, Um thatI would mostly blame on Anakin. Um.

(21:00):
But he and Faris leaves the orderbecause of that, just because he's
like needs to sort some stuff outpersonally for himself, and he has a
conversation with Obi Wan and before heleaves. That's you know, basically,
like Anakin has issues, you needto address this. And I think that

(21:22):
that makes a lot of sense withinyou know, like within universe, like
Anakin does have issues, Like youknow, maybe things would have been a
little bit differently if they'd been addressedin a different way. Not that I
blame Obi Wan or you know,the Jedi for their own genocide or anything
like that, but yeah, youknow, it would be it would be
interesting, interesting to explore if Anakinhad had a little bit more consequences.

(21:48):
Yeah. Well, I definitely kindof blame the Jedi for their own downfall
because they were just too blind tosee the Sith Lord in front of them.
So that's their own kind of fault. That's whole other conversation. Yeah,
did y'all did y'all like Jedi Questthough? Yeah, yeah, I

(22:11):
got. I got a hardcover version. I've never seen them before, but
I got my accident. It justlike came through and I was like,
ah, it's like the only turtleback that I've ever seen, But I
didn't know that they actually existed untilso now I'm on a quest and I
think that might be the library bindingis what that figured yea as much,

(22:33):
And I was like, all right, well, but now I have to
get all of them because I'm likethat, I think that's when I when
I get them all, I thinkthat that one that you have is the
nest of gun Darks that's referenced anattack of the Clones. I'm pretty sure
that's the one where they fall intothat. Yes, awesome, Yes,

(22:56):
she did a wonderful job everything together. I don't know, I read the
like coming up, so it wasworth just to like have them now.
I haven't read them in years,but like, I read them all pretty
religiously when I was going up.Episode one was biblical. You know,

(23:17):
it's so cheesy. Now I knowthat a lot of that kind of stuff.
Umh, my god, that's whywe're here, guys. Let's be
real, we've all read everything abouta thousand times. Yeah, but uh,
who's who's the next author we havein mind? Here's kind of a
heavy hitter one. Kryle likes tosay. I thought we would talk a

(23:41):
little bit about Karen Travis. HI hope you want to lead about her?
Karen. Yeah, Well everyone knowsher. Yeah, And Karen is
most famous of course, we allknow Republic Commander series, um, other
series as well. But she's andof course the the smiter of mar Jade,

(24:07):
Yes, I want to yes,and also though the heart and soul
of Mandalorian culture that has blown upinto the phenomenon that it is now.
It's like, actually, that's allKaren, minus the nonsense that they put
over it. Um not not whatthey've done with it. I didn't mean
it like that. I'm just sayingit existing in the first place. Karen.

(24:30):
Yeah, because and um so shehumanized the entire army of clones and
U and that was the big difference, right, that was the I think
that her her big her when sheleft the Star Wars world. Um,
she's most famous for that because theyoverwrote her. Her her ideas over the

(24:51):
course of what five books just forthat. But that was the theory of
like, okay, so um abunch of mercenaries, the court of all
right um something something of a natureoff the top of my head. But
they were the ones who personally,like Django, trained all of the clones
and gave them culture, so theywere people. And then you know the
Clone Wars is just like, wellthere was a chip and yeah, so

(25:15):
that that was the whole point.And then you know cal Scarado the whole
nine. But yeah, and andshe she really did a number as far
as like anti Jedi. But I'mlike, I'm surprised that people resistant because
we love like Empire fans, youknow, like it's okay, I did
not understand why everyone's so so upsetabout it. We could like I'm being

(25:41):
quiet because I have nothing nice tosay, but like I know, we
can. That's what I mean.You find you find fans that are just
as passionate as I am. Andthen like then you have fans like Catherine
is just like they're either the samebut it's in reverse, or they're so
quiet they just like they don't wantto rock the boat because generally Karen's like

(26:03):
like pretty popular. Let's why Imean for me, like, I adore
her books and she was a hugepart of my inspiration for my Kenobi story
that I've been writing, and Istudy the language and made sure i'd get
like things correctly because of hers.Then you know, so again she's one
of those authors for me that Ijust couldn't live without. And then unfortunately,

(26:26):
like you said, she famously Withdrew. But if you could go into
kind of some of the little tidbitsof what we would have gotten with that
book, because she was writing asequel of Imperial But yeah, it's it's
on her website, UM under herher Q and a's um. But she
goes on it's hard, it's hardto remember it all off off hand.

(26:48):
She finishes everybody's tail. Yeah,I know you have your notes that that
nobody can read, but they arethey look very detailed, and I was
like, I was looking at itwas zooming. I was like, I
cannot sit here and try to helpanyway. It is appreciated that you shared
that, and I got the gistof it. Um, But so I
figured I would just go off ofmemory. Right. Um, I'm sorry

(27:11):
I talked about your notes and Igot lost trap where we're at what would
have been in that story? Ohyeah, so, um the what is
a general's A and maze? IfI remember correctly, one of the Clone
commanders. Um, she said,I think, quote unquote did they go

(27:32):
off to be like a stars Keyand Hutch kind of thing. She had
plans for them with Kenam, whichI thought was really interesting. They yeah,
coming, yeah, Delta and Omega. I get squared out. Um,
I'm not going to ruin it foreverybody because they haven't Actually, if
they don't read the Q and A, it's just a Q and A.
But she does kind of finish itfor us. Um. Yeah, and

(27:53):
all the connections to come back later. Um, and Legacy, the Forest
and even Fate of the Jedi havea lot of it kind of makes sense
to me anyway, how the bloodBlind passed down and we get pardon Jessic,
don't forget him right there. That'sI don't want to give too much
away from people who because a lotof people don't even know that the resource
is there. So it's like,yeah, it's like this episode just say

(28:17):
it. Yeah, no, Butit's a couple of paragraphs and she tells
us what Imperial Commando two would havebeen. You just go to her website
and and check out her. It'seither her frequently asked questions or prommonly ask
whatever it is. Yeah, thereyou go. I'm gonna say, pardon
Jessic, he marries our la fetethere. Who's Jengo sister? Yeah?

(28:40):
Yeah, so yeah, it tiesties all the FETs together too. It's
pretty nice. It would have beena masterpiece, I think, and I'm
still upset the duologies and stuff likethey never made it to hardcover. They
definitely sure to Karen when it comesto that. In my opinion, we
didn't get Imperial Commandos to you.It wasn't a hardcover for Imperial Commando or

(29:03):
um the one they got the restof them. Printhia, Are you a
fan of Karen Travis or are youon the actually haven't. I haven't actually
read a lot of the Republic Commandobooks or anything like that, because because
what I'm typically interested in, I'mvery much like a you know, telescopic

(29:25):
view on only sith So that getthat. But she, like Kyle says,
she really humanizes them and she's justsuch a fantastic author that you know,
you get kind of like hooked onthem. And then she has this
one character. We're gonna talk aboutabout her later. It's ain when that
character dies. Oh my gosh,I remember just bowling my eyes out like

(29:47):
so hard. Nah. And asfar as sid stuff, Printhia, like
they're they're on the palms, theycall them like, yeah, they call
them pal Yeah. I always callthem pulps a colpy baby now ever since
that because it's like calpy anyway.But yeah, they figure it all out,

(30:08):
and they figure out that um,all the projections and it's just like
the army camp be that big,this is all fluffed. It's nonsense.
Yeah, it's kind of cool.And they still a lot of money from
the Empire too, which is they'relike we're going this right now, like
they really kicked off Mandalore. Yeah, but unfortunately, and she would have

(30:34):
had a Bubba Fat novel so andthat was canceled too. Yeah, so
sad, sad days for us.Yeah. Yeah, it won't go any
further than that. I suppose we'llstay in the safe waters of the fandom
here. We try to, everso lightly just by talking about her.

(30:55):
I can still heal, I canfeel Catherine like breathing right now. Yeah.
I thought we could kind of gointo the Mara death when we when
we talk about Mara, because wewill eventually talk about it, but I
don't want to. Yeah, Iguess we gotta gonna move on here.
So let's talk a bit about KarenMiller. She's she's not an author who's

(31:18):
done a lot of stuff. Butoh we got someone who just perked up
a bit. But yes, CloneWars gambit, Um, do you want
to talk a bit about that?I mean, yes, Clone Wars Gambit
is fun, but Wild Space ismore fun. Um. Yeah, I
know. I love Clone Wars gambit. Um. It's I feel like we

(31:38):
don't she the way that I reallylike the way that she writes Anna can
anobi Wan's relationship with each other.Um, it is really like it just
feels really real. Um yeah,yeah, like they have their disagreements with
each other and stuff like that,but it really shows like how deeply they

(31:59):
really care about each other, whichis great. Um. And then Wild
Space is just one of my favoritesbecause it is so campy and I love
it and I love the artwork thatcame out of it of Bail Organa bridal
carrying obi Wan like up a hill. That just makes me laugh every time
I see it. Um, Andit's grintly. I'm sure you like it

(32:23):
because they're spending time on Sith planet. So yeah, yeah, we've got
like Sith voices torturing obi Wan andhe's hallucinating and like you know what I'm
about. Man, he's having abad time. He's having a real bad
time. But I also love,like I love I love Bail in that
book so much too, because wedon't often see him in his like full

(32:47):
like you know, I I wantto say a word that's a swear,
so I can't say it, Iguess, but like, okay, when
he's like full badass, like wedon't usually like we see him like we
see him being awesome politically, um, but like him actually going and getting
his hands dirty is really cool.Yeah. And like his his like his

(33:13):
introduction really to the Sith and theJedi is because like really like you know,
the majority of the Republic just dependson the Jedi to deal with all
of their problem, like a bunchof their problems, um, and Bail
doesn't really fully you know, evenas a representative of a planet doesn't fully
understand just how much they're doing andhow much this war is harming them,

(33:37):
and he really has to see thatfirsthand. And you know, just the
because the the Sith are not commonknowledge, um, and learning like just
what you know, like picking upthat rock and seeing what's broke, you
know, like what's squirming around underthere, um, and just the way
that he rolls with it and reallysteps up. I just gets a great

(34:00):
book for him. And also Ilove his conversations with breha Um, where
like what it is but like Idon remember which she says exactly, but
like they're they're hollow conversations are justreally fun with each other. Um.
Yeah, I love that book.Yeah, she definitely wanted to flush out
Bail because it's like why did everyonetrust him out of everyone to take Leia?

(34:24):
Like what is it like about thisman that you can allow the secret?
So I think that's really cool thatshe made that decision and really did
that. She has a short thatI haven't read, and I'm really wanting
to read it because they're in FlowersInsider magazines, which I'm trying to get
my hands on all of them.Um. But she wrote about Mary Antillies,

(34:45):
which is one of the other daughtersof Wedge and Phillies. Oh,
okay, great, collect they havetwo collection books right now. I really
I wish that they, like they'rethey're a mix of both legends and Disney
cannon, and I really wish thatthey like kept them separate so that I
could organize them on my bookshelves.That it's gonna say, you can just

(35:07):
take out the pas that. Yeah, Volume three is just the what the
High Republic are, right, isn'tthat what they're doing right now? Yeah?
Which like that that that makes senseto me, is like you know,
separated by era and by flavor ofcannon. Because my bookshelf is organized
like a Star Wars books organized bylegends versus Disney canon, and the legend

(35:30):
section is much bigger, and thenit's chronological order, um, like new
and I do the same way.Yeah, New Jedi Order is up here
because that's like the half of thebookshelf is New Jedi Order to like the
rest of that type of cannon.And then we have two shelves below for
the Disney era of books. Butyeah, I wish that they because they

(35:53):
have to like these sit in betweenawkwardly because I can't put them on either.
Yeah, have anything Marvel, whichis very little. I just buy
the hardcovers that they put out ofthe Marvel releases. That's all on the
other shelf over there. I can'thave them one I do to separate them

(36:16):
completely like that. But anyways,we're getting kind of Yeah, I didn't.
Yeah, I don't think i've readthat short by her either, alf
try to hunt that down. It'smaybe it's in one of these I haven't
written down or Nope. I sentit to our our helper earlier, but

(36:38):
I think it's in like eighty sixfor some reason. Yeah, moving on
though, Um, I thought we'vetalked just a little briefly about Martha Beach
obviously. Wife husband is Palm Beach, who we all love in a door.

(37:00):
Um. They co author Tales fromthe Moss as a contina, The
Hunter's Fate, the Grido's Tail.It's such a cute, twisted dark story.
Yeah. Um. And then itbecame a web strip. So I've
actually did a short on on thischannel guys, if you want to check
it out. But yeah, Forrendiaif you like, if you want to

(37:21):
talk a bit inact, it's kindof fresh on my mind because I read
Tails from the Moss Life of thecanteena recently, so I remember just really
loving that that the Grido one inparticular. So yeah, it's all about
like when they find some ships andthen he immediately like, these are my
ships. I found them, andit's like and now he's a crazy like

(37:42):
and he's like twelve or something init, like already setting yourself up,
but like kind of a scumbag.H Yeah, that was really great.
Another author, um, and obviouslyMartha passed away last year unfortunately. UM.
Another author I thought we would talkabout briefly is Barbara Hambley and Kyle,

(38:05):
I know you're you're more of afan of her books than I am.
Oh yeah, yeah, I wrotethat. Remember I wrote that paper
for like a long time ago.I really did like very strange novels then
very strange. I mean yes.I first encountered Callista in UM as you

(38:29):
know Ablos also impersonation and then descberingthat she was once a computer and Luke
fell in love with her and thentook her spear went to another Jedi.
Like what am I reading? Becauseyeah, I had one of the weirdest
encounters with another Cause player at somepoint, who I like, I was

(38:51):
talking about my Mara costume and shewent on this rant about how she's like
the number one Callista fan and likewe were back in the like Luke's Workership
War of that era, and Iwas just like, whoa, it was
a time. Yeah, well Ilike that she uses the character Clista.

(39:13):
So then Greek mythology, that's Calisto, one of US's many lovers who got
punished and turned into a bear,and then when her son was about to
shoot her. In Greek mythology,they were changed into into stars and put
into the sky and became versa majoror a minor. So you know,
we kind of see them all thetime. But and Barbara Hambley was like,

(39:35):
hey, I like this character's name. I'm going to use it for
for Star Wars. And again,you know, we've kind of talked about
it all all of us about howGreek mythology really plays a lot into Star
Wars. Yeah, gotta steal storyfrom somewhere, guys. Ye the name
Jason, like, come on andJason, and Greek mythology is an asshole

(40:00):
as well, so it just likeit really adds up uh oh, I
had a question here. Um oh, I don't know if this as Mara
fans, how do we feel abouther? Yeah? Maybe I wrote that

(40:21):
down at the wrong spot. Yeahyeah, yeah. Barbara's probably like,
uh, well yeah, you youlike the Children of the Jedi, look
um. And then yeah, shealso did a story in Tales of Moss

(40:43):
Eyes of the Cantina about and thenabout Jabbash stuff. So I like all
these like Bantam authors, how theyalso like they did a book, but
then they did all these short storiesand it's like all the same people in
the Tales of Stories. Mm hmm. Let's talk a bit about Kathy Tires.

(41:04):
We don't want to forget about herTrusa book. I have not read
this book, so Kryle, anyoneknows more about this story, for free
to chat about it. End ofthe War Yeah, which war? M
the Star Wars one? Yeah yeah, oh right, I did read it.

(41:30):
The jo Um balance Point, Yeah, I've read balance Balance Point was
great. Yeah, I mean thatwas that was when um, that's the
one when Hannah may are really comingto a point, because right, isn't
that Because like Leah's like, allright, we understand that Annakin died but

(41:51):
like this is just crazy behavior andhe's really good. Yeah, you'd get
your head on straight at this point. Mm hm. She also wrote ULA's
Tale, which sad short story aboutslave Ula, how Luke tries to free

(42:13):
her doesn't succeed. That's not yeah. I always fast forward that scene whenever
I'm watching Why No, Yeah,it's right. What when the Rancor dies,
I cry like, come on,you see macular Like that's sad,

(42:35):
Like that's not a triumph, Likeyeah, but we see fine, now,
okay. I love the first halfof Return of the Jedi is incredible.
Second half is also great, butI really enjoyed the first Yeah,
and so all those scenes, I'mlike, yeah, and everybody's like that's
rough. I'm like, okay,it's a sum I joked with Lisa before

(43:01):
um And and the Old Insiders andstuff that you can find the um the
ad for it. But there wasa golden bronze rain Corps. It's just
like ripping apart the Gamorian and she'sjust like, oh my god. And
I was like, I wanted thosethousands, I think now at this point,
but I didn't want it as longas it's not that would be really

(43:23):
sad. Yeah, I think toomany people would complain now they were,
like, nobody's gonna get upset aboutthe pig. Yeah, they used the
Gamorian instead, but that would havebeen cool though. I would have still
bought it if it was. Idon't care, savage, but yes you
are, it had been terrifying actuallyif it was anyway, go on,

(43:45):
Yeah, since we do have oneof these amazing authors coming, if you
want to talk a bit about KarnaBetchko, Katherine, I didn't fill up
my whole list. Um, Ilove I love what she did with Ania
Solo. Um. The Legacy Era, I will admit, is like a

(44:05):
little bit outside of what like I'veread over and over again. Um,
but I really enjoy it. Um. It's such an interesting like all of
the politics of that era are sointeresting because like it's just it's it's topsy
turvy, like it's not great,like the Jedi have become the Imperial Nights

(44:28):
kind of sort of but also notUma, and the Republic is like the
the fell Empire. Like there's justthere's a lot going on that's really complicated.
Um, And it would have beenreally cool to see it, Like,
you know, if there'd been moretime to flesh it out even more,
um because there's just there's just alot going on there. Yeah,

(44:53):
but she will be Yes, we'lltalk about it. She's excited to come.
I'm excited that she's going to bethere. She'll be signing autographs,
talking to people. Um. Yeah, I like probably twenty thirteen, twenty
fourteen, I ran into her atEmerald City Comic con. Um. She's

(45:13):
super nice. Yeah, and she'sshe's excited. We're excited. It's great
and she she now, um likepart time is a paleontologist, which is
super awesome, so cool. Yeah, I'm a writer, but I also
dig for dinosaurs. Like yeah,like when I think she does, how

(45:34):
much can you get? Yeah,part time a little extra scratch, look,
you know, like that's that's that'sa statement on the comic industry and
like being a writer and stuff likethat is it's rough, like you know
it. Oh you got to takea part time job, yeah, paleontology.

(45:58):
Yeah. Uh So I thought,yeah, I thought we had finished.
And I'm sorry if I've skipped someauthors that I just can't think of
any um off the top of myhead. Um, but I thought we
finished with the one who kind ofstarted it all, which Lee Bracket,
so she you know, board innineteen fifteen, died in nineteen seventy eight,
so she wrote the first draft ofEmpires Writes Back, guys. Um,

(46:21):
some details obviously changed from when aftershe died, and then Lawrence Chasin
wrote over. I thought it wasfunny when she had Yoda's minch What an
odd name. I don't know ifyou guys have read the draft ever,
it's interesting. Um, yeah,it's it's quite It's quite a piece of
work. UM, definitely worth.I have a copy of it on my

(46:44):
computer if you guys want to readit, because like you see her,
like her written notes on this draft, and like George's notes on it too.
Pretty cool um. And what's whatis really nice about it is that
she still gets credit for Empires StritesBack. And that's because Lucas made sure
to submit the first draft to theWriter's Guild of America so that she would

(47:05):
get that credit. I think that'sreally really cool. One thing that is
also going to happen at the con, guys, is we have a guest
who we haven't announced yet, whowill be doing a talk all about sci
fi and how it built up tothe point that we got Star Wars and
kind of a history of on Leebracket as well. And I'm really excited
for that guest, but haven't Wehaven't announced it yet, So we'll get

(47:30):
there. You get there, Sowe've got more to more to come,
guys, that's what we're saying.So okay, So now that we've gone
through some of the authors, whoare some of your guys favorite if you
wanted to do like kind of alittle quick quick say, I mean,
anybody want to take any guesses about, like based off of what's behind me,

(47:52):
who my favorite character is. Ah, it's definitely Callista. Yeah,
you know that's okay. You know, maybe you're maybe you're an Aska person
or see. I can even bepassive with it. It's it's I was.

(48:15):
I was not insulting you. Ipromised. I do want to do
that one Clone Wars Legend's book,but you know I'm working Kyle up.
That's one of that's the Gambit booksby Karen Miller. Like it's it's a
lot of it like it. Youcan take all five of those books out
and and it wouldn't make any difference. I usually do. I put them
in there because like like dark Horse, you know, for UK and all

(48:37):
that stuff, like all the TCWcomics, everything was kind of made in
its own little bubble and they didthe same thing, already did the same
thing with those five, So that'show I see it. But yeah,
no, I love I love MaraMara's mcgirl. Um, yeah, I
really love just like her, howdeep her character arc is and the fact

(49:01):
that like this is so like whenI'm in my Mara costume doing events,
and so often like somebody knows whoshe is, and it is like explaining
her to somebody who doesn't, andthey always just start off with, like,
oh, yeah, she's Luke Scabricer'swife, And that like hurts me
a little bit inside because that justlike it brings so many assumptions to her

(49:23):
character and it just it puts herin a box kind of thing, and
she's so obviously that's an important partof her life. But like, I
really love the fact that, atleast when Timothy's on is writing her,
like she doesn't revolve around Luke atall, Like she has her own goals,
and sometimes her goals do involve Luke, namely killing him. Um,

(49:47):
but like she really it's it's somethingthat I think a lot of IP struggles
with Um is like if you havelike a made like a main male character,
you know, like having them beinga relationship with somebody without that character
just being very like one dimensional.UM. So I love how complicated she

(50:08):
is. One of the costume groupsthat I'm in is Saber Guild, which
says choreographed lightsaber performances. And Iwrote a show that it's after the events
of the Throng trilogy that is likea forced vision of her with Palpatine.
That's kind of her like dealing withsome trauma related to that, and like

(50:28):
just that the character has like somuch potential for that. Like it's it's
so interesting to dive into that,like her how she grew up and how
you know when given a choice,you know, being being shown like human
decency for the first time by notjust Luke, but Leah and Lando everybody.

(50:52):
UM, just like the choices thatshe made. She's just such a
interesting, complicated character. To me. I love her Um, and just
I love than like her relationship withLeah and Jana and everybody. It's it's
just really solid. I love themall. Printhie, I know you you

(51:14):
might have to leave at some point, So I yet to hear some more
from you, um, your favoritecharacters and then as well, like even
favorite authors that really touched you.Oh man, I have to think about
that. I've been staring at mybookcase this whole time, being like,
oh no, what's my favorite?But I mean, like I really love

(51:36):
like some looking into clearly I'm ahuge SITH fan, so looking into like
some Seth history, they're some reallyprominent like female figures into history that are
like these really amazing characters that kindof like carried that forward and it's great
to like look at it and belike, yeah, it's not not you
know, just a boys club.So I mean I love everyone. Yeah,

(52:00):
women can be mean too, Yeah, but like I love Zanna from
like the Dark Bain trilogy and umCognus that came after her, and I
love that, like like the foundationof the Stiff Order, like the that
piece is a lie thing that's writtenwritten by a woman, by source of

(52:21):
sin. Right, So I justthink there's so many like awesome smaller characters
in like Siff history that are women, and I just love that. So
yeah, I really wish we getmore of Cognis. I think she's such
a utable character because she's like allpowerful in her mind and just like whips
everyone's butt so so recently yeah Iknow, yeah, like she just kind

(52:45):
of likely understands back and watches Bainand a fight to the death and she's
like, yeah, you know,I'm going to kill one of them eventually,
so let them take sort this outbetween themselves. Yeah, which she
does. So yeah. Have youread Faded the Jedi a Crinthia. Um,
I've started it and haven't finished yet, Okay, because Vistara is so

(53:07):
much Oh yeah, I mean Iknow the characters, so I also love
the start, and that kind ofties into like, um, Lost Tribe
of the Stuff of course, thewhole Kyle, I've faking love Lost Tribe
of the Stuff. Yeah, ifyou ever get a chance. Um.
John Jackson Miller came on and hedid like a whole in depth. He

(53:29):
came out of Legend's library, likehe went through all of Lost Tribes like
I could leave the room because hewas just like verbatim going, oh and
then this happened in this character andthis I was like, Okay, I
got into the bathroom Bill be youjust talked about it was incredible, like
yeah, yeah, yeah, whata great series. I love Lost Tribe.

(53:52):
Yeah, and great female characters andLost Tribe as well. Yes,
so yeah, absolutely, yeah,well I definitely star. It was one
of my favorites. Yeah. Iliked what was I liked what was happening
there, And it's just one ofthose other really unfortunate things that we missed

(54:12):
because of the buyout, because theywere right there. It's like the first
time ever in the modern era wehave a whole bunch of Jedi and a
whole bunch of Siths and we're allcorrossant and they're secret agents and sis gonna
go down. Yeah. I savedit. I saved it there. And
then it's just like cut and wewere gonna see that whole dynamic of of

(54:32):
Luke and Mara and however they weregonna mix it up, but like that
was gonna be them, Yeah,and the Star it was already them,
you know, they already kicked itoff. And I loved how Mara and
Luke were so like, especially Lukewho had to deal with it and it's
just like, oh god, likeand he's his girlfriend in the back.

(54:54):
I'm just gonna like it's just there'sall of that, like yeah, like
that the dynamic between the three ofthem and just like Vestara seeing like you
know, because with you know,like with they're being a bunch of Sith
Like this is really like when youhave like cultural like you have a culture

(55:15):
of Sith and like how messed upthat is? And like the the interaction
that really sticks with me is likeLuke is not Ben is mouthing off to
Luke and Luke's reaction to that,it's just like, oh, he reminds
me so much of his mother whenhe you know, sassins me Um.
And then like Luke leaves and Vestarais like, doesn't your father beat you
if you talk to him like that? Yeah? And Ben is like who

(55:37):
do you like? Who do youthink my father is? Like does your
father beat you? Like, likeyou know, just like it's I think
it's a really like I know youguys are a bunch of Sith fans,
but like I'm sorry, it's sethi. They're young, like you know it
really Yeah, Well she was involvedwith her father's death pretty much, so
oh yeah, oh yeah yeah yeah, Spoiler's UM's involved. She's sol Sole

(56:02):
proprietor um. But yeah, it'sjust like really I think it's it's really
interesting to contrast like the way Jediare raised versus Sith are raised, and
how messed up all that is.Like, you know, she rides in
on her her tick her. Iforget what that animal species is called,

(56:24):
but like you know, basically she'sgot she's got her flying horse equivalent kind
of thing, and like yeah,tick, yeah, I don't I don't
remember what this species is. Butkilled her. Yeah, like that's one
of her first trials. You're supposedto kill him um, And it's just
like yeah, man, Like it'severyone who's like, oh, well look
the Jedi, they're the same.They're like equally bad. It's like,

(56:45):
well the Jedi don't beat their childrenand have them kill their out, Like
yeah, they're like, yeah,don't get at touched. Yeah. There
are some things that are objectively notnot great a little bit. I on

(57:05):
one hand, we have a culturethat's inspired by Buddhism, so most Westerners
don't understand what attachment means in thiscontext. And on the other hand,
we have child abuse, like arethey to game a picture? Yeah?
Yeah, ah the Sith, wherewould we be without them and a much
more peaceful galaxy. Yeah, therewould be no balance, though there's a

(57:32):
lot that's a loaded questions, likeyeah, I'm sorry, I keep bringing
up things that you keep going No, don't do it. I'd just like
to be a good topic to havea nice debate on at some point.
I would love to bring one ofmy friends on here at Lisa, who

(57:54):
is Buddhist, who's a big StarWars fan, to like fully explain yeah,
like that everything with you, likewhat it means by balance and what
it means by attachment, that kindof stuff, because it's a lot of
stuff. Yeah, and it makesa lot more sense and like knowing knowing,
like Lucas has said that's where hewas coming from on a lot of

(58:15):
his world building for the Jedi,and like he at one point called himself
like a Buddhist methodist, you know, like it's um yeah, like it's
it's really fascinating stuff. One day, definitely, I don't want to antagonize,
but talks, but if we wantto get a little bit more into

(58:39):
some of the characters, I dohave very extensive yes, holy crape of
her notes and Kyle was talking aboutit earlier like, and I was doing
the same thing. I was like, you know, zooming in and just
being like, say, lot,there's a lot, there's a lot of

(59:07):
characters. And I keep like,as we've been talking, and I go,
oh, I didn't write anything aboutthat character. Like I forgot to
write about Lando was white, forexample, in Winter, I didn't write
about Winter. You know, saythat. We could just go on and
on because there's plenty, because Ithink there's just so many biggest most understood,

(59:29):
like misunderstood aspect of the Star Warsuniverse, it was the EU was
like dominated by women, and likethere was plenty of it. And that's
why I hate hearing that. They'relike and it's like that is not true
at all. You know what aboutDala and like yeah, so I'm yeah

(59:52):
and it's our It's like yeah,they were like what are you talking about?
They owned and then Leah and thehe goes on. Ye, So
there's always been like a matriarch satto speak right, and it's like,
oh, how about let's start withpad May, Let's let's talk about the
match. Let's talk about Yes,yeah, the Witches of dapare Yea,

(01:00:19):
that's a that's og stuff. Herewe're talking. Yeah, yeah, it's
still Bantam, Yeah yeah, countI love and hear she's on the list
to hear. He's my favorite characterout of every I think still everyone to

(01:00:42):
this day. It's the whole,It's the whole Anakin thing. Yes and
yeah, all right, when whenJason um messes with her and Flow walks
her back like that that scene,I was just like, oh my god,
still like the Satta scene and AllStar or for me, Yeah,
when we were writing our like conventionpolicies and preparation for you know, putting

(01:01:07):
the tickets on sale, and youknow, we have to do like a
section on cosplay, which is youknow, like we're clothing, Um,
we're clothing, including like shoes,um, and like specifically call out to
hear me in this of just likesorry, all right, someone's repeatedly ringing
my doorbell. Yeah I thought Iheard that, and I thought I was
going crazy for a little bit ofa second. Sure this might be a

(01:01:29):
good time for me for me toactually head out since I've got to go.
Okay, well, well I guessi'll plug my plug my Facebook group.
I run a Facebook group. Um, we're called the Final Sifth order
we do. You guessed it Sithroleplay and discussion and um, just like
Laura debate, we're pretty heavy.I'm EU and heavy into SETH Laura.

(01:01:50):
So if you're interested in that,check us out. Um. We also
have a forum. It's forums dotSith Empire dot net. Um, so
check us out and give us afollow. Yeah. Well thanks for joining
us, Crinthia. We really appreciateit. Yeah, sorry you have to
go, but come back in itstide for sure. Well next time,

(01:02:10):
until next time, until next time, so bye bye. Hi. All
right, so we're back now thatCrinthia has left us for the evening,
and now we're going to get intoour characters descriptions and you know we're gonna
go through this chronologically. So ylI'm gonna put you right on the spot

(01:02:30):
right now, because who's one ofthe first females in Star Wars world?
You know who I'm gonna I know, I'm gonna get it right? Was
it? What? What was it? Was it? Blanner? No?
No, I love her, She'sshe's a couple of times the timeline I'm

(01:02:52):
like, oh wait, hold onas far as here we go, Yeah,
I want to talk about Tilatney alittle bit more. Oh you're talking
about the real stuff, all right. Yeah. As far as the expand
universe, yeah, she's definitely oneof the original females so to speak.

(01:03:15):
Um, she was as far aslike as concerned. Um, she was
birth from from a a sudo likeformer angel now like not to be confused
with Guardian the galaxy, but justfor the term of it, celestial being

(01:03:35):
um, and in a moment ofpassion which he's not supposed to feel,
as far as like those those darkerhuman emotions birth for beings that were known
as the Bedlam spirits, and Telatanyis more or less just the ringleader of
such and where she together all fourthey were a balanced unit. And then

(01:04:00):
one of the spiritual siblings leaves andSlotne becomes a little off kilter, as
does her other siblings. And yes, um wonderful slot Me throws a shape
by the way, as her firstappearance Moore, Um, yeah, and
he's an entire conversation. We cando like three episodes on Alan Moore altogether.

(01:04:21):
That would be great. But um, anyway, yes, Alan Moore's
uh creation and she um is eventuallyso yes, we all love. I
was wondering if that's where this wasgoing. Yeah, yes, yes,

(01:04:44):
um like a lot of the reincarnationso and so as we know her,
Um yeah, I won't go inanywhere. Well I do, like until
Otne he throws a shape of thestory. So if we if we can
talk a bit about that though.Um. So, it's it's Princess Leiah

(01:05:05):
being pursued by some stormtroopers onto anunknown world and Selatley just kind of shows
up, you know, floating inspace is beautiful green uh character, you
know and goddess essentially, and youknow she's like, hey, I'm I'm
going to play with these little toysthat are on this world and changes them

(01:05:26):
into like actual different shapes and nameand kills them. So Leiah actually dies
in the story, and you knowit's kind of a wild moment. You're
like, wait, what dies atsome point? But then she's obviously she's
brought back, and which is thecharacter that brings it back? Is it?

(01:05:53):
It's a horrless horless okay, andit's uh so yeah, they're they're
it's Alotny freezes them all kind ofgiggles about it essentially to kind of put
it in a nutshells um and doesit kills him again, and it's just
like yeah, um, and thenSplendid app repairs them. Yesome situation.

(01:06:20):
He's kind of like he's kind oflike the escapegoat of the four Yeah,
and he's like, all right,I'll clean it up. And then so
like Leia and yeah, so Lea'scomes alive again. But the problem is,
you know, he recotifies all ofthem, but he doesn't put them
in the right timeline, and hesends the Stormtroopers eight thousand years into the
past and the Stormtroopers die there andthen like it kind of ties back to

(01:06:43):
the beginning where you see like theStormtrooper armor in the dust on this world.
And this very scene defines the Splendidapp theory through supernatural encounters. Its
theory that yeah, yeah, umthat that's been like going on for a
while and I've perpetuated and um,that explains the Star Wars universe. There's

(01:07:10):
like a bridge here in which Appaccidentally creates a different universe, so to
speak, different dimension. Well,if we can know talk a bit about
Applea as well, you can sharewhat you know about her. She's great,

(01:07:38):
I absolutely I know people don't appreciateit, but I love Fat of
the Jedi, right, and Ithink that of all the series that when
they decided to go that route asfar as sequential, um, you know,
let's take a couple of authors paramup, see how far we'll go um,
which was a great idea. Itwas I thought that that that series
was written for fans more than fansever really got. You know. It's

(01:08:01):
just like it's got scenes like likeI know that I'm digressing a little bit,
but like Boba, Fatt and Dalejust like chilling out the room kind
of just basically being like, yeah, you know, so like I own
Mandalorian. She's like yeah, wellyeah, yeah, in her timeline is
you know, like a hundred thousandyears before before battle. Yeah, but

(01:08:23):
yeah, as far and I'm yeah, and I'm as far as as right,
we're still talking. Yeah, I'mI'm like kind of steering clear of
it for here, right, becausethere's a lot. There's a lot coming
up um to make sense of theancient universe. So and that's by Joe,

(01:08:45):
and we'll see more of that stainguys, and the context for a
blot and exactly like her purpose,which yes, the Brooks explain. But
I think that it would have.It would have meant a lot more if
you would have had supernatural encounters first. So hopefully those who read it and
then go back and actually read Faiththe Jedi. It's more of a true

(01:09:10):
send off series. And of courseif you don't read it, you can
listen to the audio drama that Kyleis also the director of UM with a
couple of people that that we knowwho will be in it, like myself
as to Lottie. Hence why Itry to get you to talk about her.
I know, I barely know youwon't tell me. I know I'm

(01:09:33):
treating it as much as like Lucaswould do it, the whole thing.
I know, yes, you willknow when you need to know. Moving
on though, because we can talka bit about both a bit later.
But yeah, So back to thatbook you pulled earlier on the shelf,
Lanterry Brock Human from Tython. Ithought Tython was such a cool concept,

(01:09:55):
you know, like the the innerbits of the galaxy, like the right
inside and like the kind of likethe Big Bang essentially that had happened,
and the tho your and how itbrought all these species of like special species
into this one kind of central place. Um, what I am really annoyed
by Tython is the fact that nowin this knee they make it really easy

(01:10:19):
to get to and it just doesn'tlike that. Yeah, no, it's
impossible. Like so but Lanry Brock, she is uh I know, yeah,
No, you're all right, you'llget there Thursday. Just but yeah,

(01:10:44):
so Lantery, so we've we've coveredher before in the show, but
she was kind of first brought fourthby John Ostrander. So it's twenty five
thousand years before battle, ye haven'tand then the thor your timeline it's ten
thousand years after though your arrival.What I like about her characters like she
seems such a normal person, butthen she's really faced with this crazy obstacle

(01:11:06):
of Hey, you're gonna have tofind your brother who faced his death and
potentially kill him because he wants toopen up like a black hole essentially and
destroy us all. And you gottabe okay with that. Um, and
you know, you feel for her, like for her, we never got

(01:11:27):
like any resolution to it because therewas clearly supposed to be more books and
there wasn't. Yeah, yeah,yeah, yeah, I had faith in
tim Like, yeah, I likedit. I liked fuck you know,
and like we get like those kidslook like those really deep Asian cultures that

(01:11:47):
we just don't really know a lotabout, like and like like the greed
technology, like the hypergate, likethat's pretty cool. Obviously we don't see
it ever again, Like I don'tknow if anywhere in the Star Wars kind
of visits that again we shall seeother than Joe and things I'm not allowed

(01:12:10):
to know, So moving along inthe timeline, So I also did want
to mention her kind of her MasterDan Powell. I liked her as a
character. Do you kind of havelike that sexy pithe or tilot guy that
she used as a as her playtoywho then Lattery has to work with,

(01:12:38):
which is funny. Also what's wildbut this timeline is that they all have
swords that are made of door steal. They're not lightsabers yet. Like that
that comes in a couple of years, and that comes when in the Dawn
of the jedis comics that we absolutelyadore. Um when the Force Hound Dash

(01:13:00):
ends on the world and several ofthe Jedi, because it's Jedi, have
to go and track down whatever.This is crazy disturbance was and Jay Kota,
I love that, like the momentwhere she's running after him and then
they have to fight that creature andyou know, she catches him in the
end and he's like, oh,you can go ahead, You're allowed to

(01:13:20):
eat my heart, just like that'snot what we do here. I don't
know what kind of world you're from, and you know, obviously he's from
a cat and world, so thingsa little more intense over there. So

(01:13:41):
I do like some of the othercharacters that we get to see, like
Tasha Rio the Twilight who's kind oflike the forced yre. And also what's
really cool about Shakoda is she createsthat dragon slash rancorps known as Butch,
and you know, Butch in theend saves them, which I thought was
just it's like, I feel thatrancors have like a really lovely personality,

(01:14:04):
and we see that in uh Courtshipof Princess Leiah obviously. Uh So,
yeah, I love that scene whereit's like diving into the chasm and then
like that, you know, it'sall the lights. And that was definitely
when the whole concept was still alittle bit more neutral, and because otherwise

(01:14:26):
that's like you know this dark alchemylike yeah, yeah, messing with the
RCPs like that. Yeah, wellalchemy. Everything was still everything was still
sort of great. Yeah, wellthat is what's really interesting is is exactly
that, like they do alchemy ofthe flesh, like they're changing thing and
it's it's okay, Like people arekind of going, that's you know,

(01:14:48):
that's questionable behavior what you're doing,but we're still Jedi, so we'll accept
it. Like you're doing it forgood, right, like rage war in
our world. Yeah, it was, it was good. It was good
for for the concept and you canfinally um get some some more concrete things
compared to you because it's just like, you know, that's the reason why

(01:15:09):
that there's a lot of breakaways fromthe Organ. Yeah, there's the altis
you know um sector of Jedi.We talked about the list earlier. She
was part of that. You know, they believe in having um you know,
couples and stuff. So there's areason why there's a lot of stigma
against the Jedi. So it's justtalking about it. You know, it's
like, oh, we see somewe see it, we see the Organ.

(01:15:31):
Yeah, well yeah, like seethe origin of the lightsaber which is
actually we're cotton technology, we gethypergates. Like like, this is a
really cool time period that we justdon't get enough of in my opinion,
and I really wish they would booka bit more about it. Katherine,
have you read all the Dawn ofthe Jedi or are you? I have

(01:15:56):
read some of them, and itwas a while ago, but I did
really enjoy them. Um, II thought they were a lot of fun.
Yeah, um yeah. The characterdesign, especially like Pat Patrick and
I he's been um, I don'tknow if he wants me to say this
now, he's been thinking about doingis as costume and I just like started

(01:16:17):
looking at it and then just likejust like we just kind of spiraled from
there of like I was looking atit just like oh man, like it's
such a cool it's such a coolcharacter design, but like, oh man,
like trying to make that in likeI R l um. Yeah,
I'm like they're they're all They're allsuch interesting characters. Um yeah, I

(01:16:40):
find them fun. Yeah. AndKyle, you kind of your name Trull?
Is that from Humanoid buying this?Or is that star Trek? Yeah?
Is my my name? Like youyou're like online handle you had it
as like trill. Yeah, I'veactually had that since like I was like
eight or nine years old. It'sjust every time you can make a character

(01:17:03):
name. I can't remember what itwhat it used to be, but I
eventually shortened it down and it wasjust like, so I just use it,
so there's nothing to do with thischaracter. No, it's it's definitely
just video game culture. Oh Ithought it was just liked it, and
it's like because it's like you knowor whatever, like a trill, So
okay, I get it. Yeah. No, I was like, oh,

(01:17:25):
wow, he likes his spy charactera lot. That he named himself
after a female. That's kind ofcool, very progressive, Kyle, But
I guess I always assumed it wasafter the Star Trek species, so we're
both wrong. Said, yeah,no, I cannot be confused with the
Tchucky nothing. There's nothing wrong withTrek E's gown. Don't send mail.

(01:17:45):
It's okay. We didn't mean.I didn't mean I couldn't even talk about
Star Trek. I don't know.Every once in a while I've had people
like, oh, you're Star Trek, right, and I'm like, excuse
me, Like Star Trek, maybethis is why being a scientist that like,
it's actual sci fi, not spaceopera. Yeah, I love stargeting.
I watched Fanboys. Did you eversee it? I think so,

(01:18:09):
Yes, there's a scene in therefor you if I love that film,
I think it describes that entire entirething very well. Anyway, continue,
so jumping out super far forward inthe timeline in roughly about three thousand nine
d by so getting to a characterlike best to the shot. You know,
she's a big popular favorite character foranyone who plays nice the Old Republic.

(01:18:32):
I personally have never played any videogames, so I know, well
I did think like, don't gooutside, um insane, that's that's my
cotor is. Like the one videogame that I've played all the way through
pretty much is because yeah, youcan have it on your phone. Yeah
okay, well I've I've watched itlike I've watched someone do it all at

(01:18:53):
once, and you know it.It was a commument. I enjoyed it.
I learned a lot of things.Oh yeah, I don't know.
I'm just not really. I feellike if I started doing video game I
wouldn't believe and my cap hate becauseno, believe me, that's not how
this works. You sit in onespot and they eventually get like these territories

(01:19:15):
built in of where only their buttsand and like you have snacks and then
they know eventually like they're gonna getyou to give them snacks and then they're
gonna relax. They're gonna love youif if you get into video game mood
m h fastil is great. Ireally love Mission too, And yes she's

(01:19:38):
so much fun. Yes, yes, John is great too. Um yeah,
did you make um? Did youkill Johanni at the end? No?
Did you ever try it on thedark side? No? What I
did do though, is my veryfirst through as like a little you know,

(01:20:01):
Catholic school girl who you know wasstill in the closet even to herself.
Is I just somehow managed to flirtwith Johanni without even realizing it.
So I unlocked the whole thing whereshe like asks you out because I was
playing as a female character. Um, and then like and yeah, I
like felt some kind of way aboutthat as like seventeen year old who didn't
really know what was going on withmyself even um. And then I found

(01:20:26):
out later that like apparently it's reallyhard to unlock that, and I was
just like, what, like itwas your desk. I just I just
happened across this UM. But yeah, no, I always play at light
side. I've only played it throughfully twice because again I don't really do
video games, but um, yeah, I love I love Johanni. But
Mission is also just so much fun. Like I really, I really hope

(01:20:48):
that they coup with UM the sixinch Black series because they did this all
bar one, and I'm like,we need Mission now, like I think
I think they will. I thinkthey getting there. I think they will.
Yeah. Yeah, um the GalaxyGalaxy of Heroes. I used to
play that for years on the mobile. Um it's been it featured like Colder

(01:21:12):
one and two for years now,so it's yeah, and they even got
like like man Kyle now like there'smore stuff, which is fine, um,
but they're they're heavy feature on thatalways made me think that we're gonna
they're gonna be pushing on that.I think, yeah, now we're gonna
get a lot of variations of likeEU stuff because I think that they realized

(01:21:32):
that it actually sells so well.Who falls into being a saith and then
is able to redeem themselves? Likethat's common kind of parallel that we always
go through. Um, and wesaw that with Castilla when she sided with
Darth Melick for a brief time afterhe captured her and you know, tortured

(01:21:54):
her and all that kind of funstuff. You always got to have some
torture in order to turn to thedark side. Like that's this common factor.
Oh yeah, yeah, I dolove this. Sorry, go ahead.
You can keep the cool costume afteryou like, kind of dress them
all up the way you want now. Yeah, I would always just make
them all evil anyway. Anyway,go on. I love how she falls

(01:22:18):
in love with Remen, mostly becauseI do like romance stories, um,
with dark side intentions. Um,but then she was done wrong though I'm
sorry, I don't want to cutyou off. Go ahead, did you
guys? Did you? Yeah?I don't. She basically is kind of

(01:22:41):
like a housewife and it's just likeyeah and he I mean, like,
you know, I get where hewas going because you had to tie a
lot of things together. But um, he just he leaves her and and
he leaves his child and he goesto fight this ship. Yeah, and
just never returns. So it's it'stragic. And she knows she feels it

(01:23:03):
and she she knows, and becauseRobin's not dead, he gets stuck in
stasis for a couple of hundred years. Um. Yeah, but you know
she obviously just grows old and diesalone. Happy time super sorry, So
s at least they had a kid. Yeah, I'm happiness. Yeah,

(01:23:29):
that's that's important because then we getsatil. I think it is next on
your list, right. Actually,I have no me sounwriter, but if
you want to talk about you,I mean again, I've I've played some
of small torn on all of itbecause I can't sit still for that long.
Um. But she's so amazing andthat that cinematic trailer of her fighting

(01:23:50):
Malgus in the woods on All Turnis just it's so beautiful. Yes,
it's so beautiful, Like it's it'swhat it's what we all aspire to with
like Saber Guild and stuff, andwe'll never hit that point because we're not
you know, we don't have theforce so we can't actually do backflips.
Um. But like, yeah,it's beautiful. Yeah, she's so cool.

(01:24:15):
Oh what do you think about her? She's awesome. There's a there's
a brief run. They didn't reallydo a whole lot um of like comics
first Voter. Unfortunately, Um,this game is cool. I spent a
minute since I've been in with it, but like it was, I thought
that it was nice that they kindof continue it because I remember being into

(01:24:38):
her and then the Old Republic seriesand then the what was that which almost
that that's the past the Annihilation becausethere's another descendant of like Reven in Bastile
and there too. Okay, sothey did they'd kept that trend alive for
a little bit, and the inthose novels, which was nice, but

(01:25:00):
that yeah, that that novel didbest a little wrong getting back to the
friend here, that's unfortunately anyway.Yeah. Yeah, if anything, you
just kind of wish that there wasmore of like time made for it,
if it had to happen, somethinga little bit more poetic than what we
saw. Yeah. I feel thatway sometimes with Jana later certain authors like
yeah, Troy Dunning, that justdoes not give her a very good justice.

(01:25:26):
Uh, you know, I kindof having to train with Boba Fett
in order to know how to killher brother. I was gonna be over
here in my hate corner and takea little drink. Well, I mean
that was kind of fun, butI just felt that, like she felt
very like flat whenever Troy wrote her, and like, I don't know,
it was for me coming from likea female author like Stance, and I'm

(01:25:46):
going, yeah, I don't agreewith that, Like she just had more
of it an edge. But we'lltalk about Jana later. So moving on.
So still in the same time frame. So noodys Son Rider, so
another fan favorite. She was indark Horse Comics seven and spiled into the
Tales of the Jedi by Tom Beachand also by Kevin J. Anderson.

(01:26:06):
Originally she was kind of a sketchin like a oh, like a stained
glass thing that was featured in theClone Wars, and then they were like,
oh, why don't we why don'twe write more about this character?
And then she just became kind ofa fan favorite. And then we even
get some of her descendants in AbelPino's Blone Wolf story, so, which

(01:26:28):
is really cool. Um, what'ssad about her is like she got married
pretty early on and then her husbandwas like brutally murdered in front of her
piece. Yeah, and it allfor us one of crystals. It's one
of the few examples of like reverseFridging that I can think of in fiction
because like he dies and she's like, all right, I'm off on a

(01:26:48):
quest now, Like, yeah,I which a got a lot to do.
You know, well, it's it'scool, Like it's it's really rare
that we see like mothers with youngchildren going out and like doing cool stuff.

(01:27:08):
And that's that's one of the coolyou know, she's got a babystrapped
her like most of the time thatshe's doing yeah, you know, running
around like it's just it's it's refreshingto see. I appreciate that. Yeah.
No, that's so true. AndStar Wars didn't have powerful women in
the EU. Definitely do right,come on now, I'm sorry, I

(01:27:32):
gotta stop. I guess I'll continue. Okay, no one's gonna complain.
We love our Legends Library fans.Everyone is very lovely and crying and no
one has ever said any um,and we don't have any weird stokers.
Um just a brief things happen um, not with Legends but elsewhere. It's

(01:27:59):
anyways, moving on anyway, Sono, me, what's really cool about
her is, yeah, like she'sfighting in the Great Sith Wars against like
the Rides of ex raccoon Um.She does witness Ula Caldroma kill his brother
and then you know, eventually shebecomes the grand Master and like kind of
her again, like you guys said, like her Arc is a religious powerful

(01:28:21):
he just kicks but the whole timeand says like, what are you gonna
do? I got a baby onmy back, like I got stuff?
Yeah yeah, uh. Now thatPrinthia has gone, I did want her
to be around for this point.But talking about Darth Preya or slash Praya

(01:28:42):
also formally known human wonderful character,human Jedi Sith triumphant Um. What a
cool character, you know, liketeaming up with Darth Nihilis and Darth scion
Um. Eventually here obviously does diebecause Mosith good beaten Um. But she
trained reven Um during the Mandalorian Wars. She also pulled Rebin from the mast

(01:29:10):
Shadow Generator, so I thought thatwas pretty cool. What do you guys
think about her relationship with metro Syric. This is where I confessed that I
haven't played COTR too, because againI don't really do Yeah, I got
you. Mitra was the um youknow, the exile, right, and

(01:29:31):
so to put it all in likea nutshell quick. Um, you can
kind of think of it like,okay, so Trey and because nicely the
public there's so many like tie inswith it. But um, the Triumvirant
that you mentioned, because it didyou didn't play it either, right,
So that's right, because you don'tplay video games. So the Triumvirate became

(01:29:53):
like she was kind of their mentorso to speak. Um, and the
actually they turned on her because thatnihilist is like this this, yeah,
and you cannot pacify his like likethe void that he is or is becoming
at that point and m Sion,So him and Sion like become the din

(01:30:15):
brit and they they exile uh Creya, and they strip her from the force.
So she pretends to be she's thisold woman that you find pretty early
in the in the story of Kodertoo, and you don't really know about
her for a good bit and she'sjust like a frail and she only has
she's missing an arm and whatnot,right, so it's just like, oh,

(01:30:36):
she's under that guy's and she endsup being this um. She pretends
to be like you remember Virgier,Yes, oh we're gonna talk about Rgier,
yes, yeah, So she isthe Uh as far as the video
games are concerned, and in everywhich way, Like that's a good comparison

(01:30:57):
to how she is because she's lyingthe whole time time, right, and
she actually is um once she alsoreturns her connection to the force because that's
what Nihilis and um uh scion takefrom her, and then she obviously turns
on the exile and and and themas well. It's it's this whole thing.
But so, yeah, the relationshipwith Mitra is really messed up,

(01:31:20):
manipulative. She's part of the crew, so she's like part of your team
the entire time, you know,and like she'll pull you aside, say
some stuff to you um and alot of times she's trying to guide you
and like it's seemingly the light,you know, but it's really for her
own motivation, you know, toget you up against the Diumvirate, which

(01:31:40):
which is really her former become thediam in Nihilis and scion Um. They
throw her out of like the empirethat they created because they also were the
Triumvirate Um killed the Jedi Order forthe most part, it was the it
was the second Jedi hearde. Yeah, you know, I mean sorry not
the same, um, but thefirst dry purge in which like, yeah,

(01:32:06):
it was devastation, just kind oflike around that time of you hope,
so to speak. Yeah, um, Highlas he attacked that conclave and
then doctor Brun's life dry except forhis apprentice for for the for what wohendn't
Highlas he attacked a conclave. Yeahhe got his apprentice. Yeah that's yeah,

(01:32:30):
but his apprentice was just like asurviving girl. M. Yeah.
They um, and they're like abig playable race um and in this order
they're the mirror Luca um. Andshe's just those like this disturbed like orphan
because yeah, he killed her planetand like, uh so she she's like
part of like a cult with him, so to speak. And then she

(01:32:53):
you also like she breaks away andjoins your squad. So she's like one
of your characters, the kind ofsays speaking of Visas, you know,
she was like a really cool characterfrom the time from Koker too. Um
and yeah so so and she doesn'tsee through like conventional means, right,
that's why she has that drape ofher eyes. Um. So she's blind

(01:33:14):
and they see the all mirror Lucassee through the force and it's it's a
gift and uh yeah, so shealways teeters because you can tell that like
Nihilis had destroyed her. Yeah,actually turned her too, though she didn't.
He actually took her eyes out too. And in the comics see it
like blood dripping down. It's pretty. It's like, I'm necessary. She's

(01:33:41):
it's like, yeah, it's justlike that's why I sit there. Umptive
explative explative moment of rogue one wouldthey pull the bag over? And he's
like, are you kidding me?Good? Yeah, I love we too.

(01:34:02):
We all love Roguan. In theend, arrack and I'm cheasing.
But dark Trea does can she doesby metric in the end, she does
kill her. Yes, she kindof becomes a big bad to put it.

(01:34:28):
Yes, and she's really really skilledthough. She has three lightsabers that
she wields constantly, so she'll havehim like spinning all around her body.
And that's so I always thought thatbecause of like the saber throw being a
universal but like generally dark side kindof a skill. Yeah, she was
pretty cool as far as the attributesand all that fun stuff. She was
intensely powerful, very like deceitful.Yeah, it looks skipping ahead too,

(01:34:56):
like a different time period if wemay u at uh well. Still speaking
of dark side powers though, Ladart Zoo Now Katherine, I don't know
if you've read the Bain trilogy.She's only briefly mentioned in this story,
and she's a dark Lord of theSith who she's pretty cool. You would

(01:35:16):
actually like her. She's a theShaped sister the Shifter. I don't know
why that became such a tongue tiefor me, who rose a power in
the Sickos spores with her techno beasts, so she created this like basically like
a nanovirus that infected animals so thatthey became these meta necrons, and they

(01:35:38):
grew these metallic tumors and they becomelike just animal skeletons, but they're all
metal. And so Bain goes toTython because she actually eventually settled on Tython
even though the Jedi or finally theJedi and they're they're out of there,
and he goes to retrieve her herHolocron that's known to be on this world,

(01:36:00):
and he comes across all these technobeasts and like has to fight them,
but they're not animals anymore. They'rejust like wicked distortions of of uh
what they were. Um, andthat's all really good about her and m
hmm, I wish we had more. How do you know anything more about
her? Yeah, technic beasts therejust like yeah, yeah exactly. So

(01:36:30):
now jumping forward another thousand years toten fifty, bby, we have carot
Holts, who I love carrot Holts. I don't know about you, guys.
I adore her. I think she'sfun. She's buck kicking, she
takes no nonsense. She's like theperfect Jedi in every way because she's just

(01:36:53):
like she beats all the sith andsaves children and just goes. I got
to go back into the fight.So see you guys. Lay It's it's
nice to see some appreciation. Iwas just on another show and and like
my arrant came up when they werelike, oh it was such a bore,
and I was like, what Ihear that? Like, I'm like,

(01:37:16):
because it's like I don't get howthey don't enjoy it. No,
I think I don't. I haven'teven heard like that kind of stuff as
far as its just being like afemale. I've heard just like I just
don't get it. They just saythat she's like a really dry character,
and it's just like, well,I mean, like a lot of Jedi
are. That's like the reason why, you know, usually we read about
ones who kind of step outside ofthe bounds a little bit. Yeah,

(01:37:41):
you know, and then there's thenoble ones of course, but like a
lot of our like more interesting funstories are definitely like kind of focused outside
that. I'm just so a lotof them are just kind of normal.
But like it wasn't really I don'tknow, I like Carrot and the world
building wasn't incredible. I mean,like, look who wrote it. Yeah,
it's John Jackson Miller, Like howcould you not enjoy that book?

(01:38:02):
Come on, guys? There wereyeah, there were like like sethis Yeah
it was broke up, like likedamon, Yeah, yeah, it was
awesome. Yeah. When we talkedto John Jackson Miller, he said his
inspiration were the Russian oliogarchs. Werethese deaths, uh and just kind of

(01:38:24):
how they've created their own little likemedia empire, fight amongst each other and
then you know, fight for scraps. And I loved the concept of like
the head grandmother Sith and having allher children having once killed each other and
now the grandchildren are now also tryingto all kill each other, Like yeah,

(01:38:46):
exactly. You know, like OdionDamian Dramaica Arcadia. I loved Arcadia
when they go to that kind offrozen world and she's just so suave and
like, oh, we're gonna befriends a little Jedi and then imprisons her
in that like torture locker, Likeoh yeah, that one a very harrowing

(01:39:10):
moment. Uh. I also reallylike her relationship with the bottom Spie.
I think she was very like agood foil to him, and you know
when she steals his suit and likebarely fits in that stealth suit and he's
just like cursing her the whole timeand then finally like kind of gets back
at her a little bit. Butyeah, so what did you think of
that? Um? He was definitelymy favorite character in that book forget.

(01:39:36):
Yeah, but but Kara was reallyfun. I like the novel more than
the comics, but that's just meUm. I thought that they really went
into sifth culture a lot um youknow, in Dark Knell in particular is
kind of like one of those veryfamous spots and in the lore and the

(01:39:58):
fact that we got a chances tosee a lot of that um to the
point of like the sith Overlord andthat like you know, change the language
of the stuff to see her,like of all places for her to end
up, I was like, thisis this is pretty cool step. Yeah,
I don't know. I like thestory and a lot of it more
show than Kara, but I actuallyI did like her. I do not

(01:40:18):
understand why everybody is so anti Kara. Katherine, what do you think about
Kara? I keep saying all thesecharacters are a lot of fun, but
it's like that's God's Yeah they are. Um. Yeah. I love like
her tenacity, Like she's just alwaysout there, you know, ready to

(01:40:41):
fight the fight. Um. Andit's such an interesting situation to put her
in of like behind enemy lines withthe sith Um and she's you know,
doing her best with the resources thatshe has. So I think it's a
really concept to explore. She haszero resources, like yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, so it's certainlya situation. Yeah, yeah, she's

(01:41:05):
awesome. I think, yeah,she needs more recognition definitely. So let's
skip ahead a little bit, nottoo far in the timeline. But again,
this is going back to the DarthBaine books. Though, sorry,
Katherine, we can talk about DarthSana, but I want to talk about
Githney first. Kyle. I adoredGithney, Katherine. She's his character who

(01:41:30):
basically kind of lures Darth Baine intolike a false everything is okay when she
realizes he's like this powerful lord andthat he could probably just destroy them all
really quickly, and she kind ofbecomes his master but doesn't teach him everything.
But she was a former Jedi whohad taken a lover and then like
diverted to the Sith. And there'sone really good line about her that one

(01:41:54):
of the Sith says, and hejust said, I'm surprised the Jedi ever
took her in, Like, likethat's so much. You're like, oh,
like this girl is going to betrayeveryone, and she you know,
she she works her way around todo it. That's that's because the Jedi
are willing to see the best inpeople and give them a chance. I'm
like, the Sith you eat,they're young, yeah, but the Jedi

(01:42:15):
are the ones to create a lotof the s So, like she was
a Jedi and she became a Sith. So like Jed I do it to
themselves what I'm saying every time.Yeah, so when she does betrayed the
sorry go ahead, No, Sethjust needs to be smacked. Sorry,

(01:42:38):
I disagree, possibly with a lightsaber. Yeah that's a TV up against Jedi
lovers. Uh No, I comeon anyway, go on, don't worry.
She she does die in the endwhen Bain convinces the Brotherhood of Darkness
to use the thought bomb during theFourth Battle of brusson Um and like Lord

(01:43:02):
Khan like he's just kind of thinkthis twisted Sith lord and they go by
lords, they don't go by punk. Yeah, he was, and then
they were. I mean, Iso go with Baine on everything that he
was saying. He's just like theseguys don't know anything. Yes, they're

(01:43:23):
so like caught up in this fratparty and it's just like just kill them
off. It really is that.Yeah, that sums up a lot of
Sith stuff. Is there just abunch of frat boys? So mean?
Can you imagine like just being liketeenage Bin, you know, or somewhere

(01:43:43):
along the way when he was inschool and it's just like kids are like,
you know, like like checking outwhat they can do and he's just
like, I don't murder everyone.Yeah, that was rubbing him frat house,
going on, yeah, stop it. I'm well, don't worry.
They do all die in that thoughtbomb, and horribly because they a lot

(01:44:06):
of them stay in that stasis bubble. And she gets evaporated because you know,
she had the final moment where shegoes, oh, maybe I shouldn't
fold this guy anymore. But heturns to dust when she's sping, so
sad. But she does not endup being his apprentice. Instead, that
becomes Darzana, who is our nextfemale we've got. And Darsana is the

(01:44:30):
first of the apprentice line of theDay Night line. Um. She was
first brought up in Darco McCanns TheDiversi Sith comics. But and again,
Catherine, you really need to readthese books. They're Darsana. You'd really
like her, Like, she's justphenomenal, sounds interesting. She's very interesting.

(01:44:53):
You know. She was taken byhim when she was like nine or
something and brutally killed some Jedi becausethey killed her little animal friend, and
justifiably, I probably would have donethe same thing in her shoes. Yeah
she killed them good too. Yeah, like they were like broken and twisting.
Bain's like all right, little girl, ye come with me, like

(01:45:16):
a yeah, it was after alot of damage occurred. Yeah, everything
was like there was like fire right, like you know, it was just
kind of like yeah, well theSith in the Jedi fighting, like there
were so much just like darkness releasedon this world that it changed these animals
into like these little creatures I wouldattack the Jedi. So the Jedi had

(01:45:40):
this whole let's just kill the animalskind of I think that they started going
through which is really horrible, butthankfully she kills them. And her next
test was to meet Bain, becausehe doesn't actually take her. He's like,
well, I'm gonna go to thisworld onder On and I'll see you
there and leaves her on who sawit? So she finds his family in

(01:46:01):
the ship called the star Wig,and it's one of the so Deadye soldiers
and bored On and his sons,and she just she goes for a gun
and kills one of the sons andthen immediately kills everyone else on the ship.
And it's pretty brutal. It's likea little girl mass burdering, and
you just gotta get used to it. What do you think about when she

(01:46:28):
gets to Androon, Like, II love the scene where like Bain comes
flying in on one of those ducksand kind of creatures. Yeah, it's
so cool, like because Bain hedoesn't actually land on and On, he
flies from another world on a wingedcreature after he finds u a holocron and

(01:46:48):
gets covered in the Oh sorry,he doesn't find holocron there, he gets
covered in the orbitalists. Um.Eventually, when she's older, you know,
she uses a spy still, youknow, she kind of like infiltrates
little groups. And then she discoversthis guy Hadn't who really has an interest
in like Sith artifacts and becomes likeobsessed with the fact that she's a Sith

(01:47:11):
and tests her and she uses himto fight against Bain, but of course
that fails and she swears allegiance againto Bain. Later, she finds a
Jedi who was a former Jedi.Actually, this guy's kind of funny.
Seth Halen was a Jedi who decidedto use his powers to get rich from
casinos and just be like a generalwomanizer and kind of a dip shit.

(01:47:35):
And she's like, maybe he'll bemy apprentice because he's, you know,
kind of leaning on the dark side, and takes him in. But of
course that doesn't work out. Shemeets Darth Cognus, who is like a
formidable opponent, and like what we'vediscussed earlier with Crinthia, like she just
kind of sits back and waits tosee which between Bain and Zanna is going

(01:47:58):
to sabai because Carcas honestly could tilleither of them very easily. Um.
Do you remember what species she is, Kyle, I totally forget. Yeah,
she's um the one that says tenasum the horns. Yeah, yeah,
it's toosky Yeah, something like yeah, yeah, um. And then

(01:48:20):
of course, just a little funfact about Zannau. The Darth name was
given to her by Abel Pinat andin one of the general Grievous stories that
he wrote for Stars Insider, hegrievous actually inherits her lightsaber somehow. You
don't know, because I haven't readthat story. So moving on, Okay,

(01:48:42):
we're gonna skip ahead now a couplethousand years to Vergier. So let's
let's talk some fosh Kyle, ifyou you want to lead off about Rugier,
Yeah, change like Um and MatthewStab with her change. Um,
the entire theory on the Force Brigierwas awesome. That's like a whole conversation

(01:49:05):
that we could have. Is justas far as like the philosophy of the
Forest based on Um the book Traderwhere she is torturing Jason. So but
otherwise though, Brigi is kind ofintroduced to readers as far as being this
um captive slash just familiar. Sonot really they don't. It's just she

(01:49:27):
just seems off putt and they don'treally quite now. Um, she's just
like a familiar to the uzone Vongwhen they invaded the galaxy during the Jedi
Order era. Yeah, and thenJason Planet. Yeah, and then yeah,
that's going back. She was ashe was a Jedi who kind of
ventured out and then got wrapped upinto some things so I'm as a cat

(01:49:54):
and then other events occurred in whichshe eventually ended up in Chares Bold and
yeah, so she effectively left likeum left here, left our our galaxy.
Yeah, taken by the far Outsidersas they were kind of coined at

(01:50:14):
that time. Yes, when sheleft, she she left er galaxy.
I think a lot of what shapedher is her master as well, Um
Thracio joe Leem was there during likewhat she was hat and and her master

(01:50:38):
like got married several times, whichI think is kind of funny, um,
mostly for the fact that, likethe Jedi are really against it,
being like, shouldn't be getting marriedevery ten seconds, but you are so
Like. I don't know if thatinfluenced Persier to have kind of a a
different perspective, because you know alreadyher master was what's different in that sense?

(01:51:02):
What do you think about that?I'm sorry, I was I was
responding to some hero quick he saidthat one more time, just kind of
the relationship with her master and howher master's tendency to get married and like
have attachments, how that could haveinfluenced Rgier into the characters. But she

(01:51:25):
became and then her darkness of course, do you think that's why caused it?
I think that influenced it for sure, Like if she had a regular
boring Jedi, she probably wouldn't beso like abstract out there. Yeah.

(01:51:45):
What do you think about her herdeath scene in the Battle of Ebach nine
protecting Jason, but the tears,yeah, oh and the tears, Oh
yeah, you go. You wantto say anything about that, Catherine,
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'regetting into Barra territory. Um. I

(01:52:11):
I have very complicated feelings with thatwhole like part of mars story. Um.
But in terms of a way tokind of you know, like I
I like where they went with that. It's an interesting it's an interesting thing.
That's Yeah, with Mara being sickfor like the first half, not

(01:52:33):
half, but the first large amountof the new general Yeah, yeah,
I kind of like, you know, if I was in charge, um,
I think it would have been reallyinteresting to have Luke be the one
who's sick instead, because, um, like, I think we can all
agree that houstont Of has like thisrise to godhood over the course of the
EU, Like yeah, it's justyou know, it's inevitable, like he's

(01:52:56):
the main character, Like it's goingto happen. Um. So it would
have kind of like put the pausebutton on that. And I also think
that, like, um, likeas interesting as it was to have Mara
have to learn to like accept helpkind of thing with her illness, um,
I think it also would have beeninteresting to like have her like it

(01:53:23):
would be a growth of compassion forher. Um. If she had to
like deal with Luke being the onewho was sick. Yeah, and it's
just it's I'm not necessarily able tosay it's good or bad, but it
certainly was a choice to have itbe like cured through her birth of Ben
Skywalker as well. Like it itwas a choice. It's I don't know,

(01:53:45):
I have complicated feelings about the wholething that we don't really have time
to get into. Um. AndI don't really even have like a thesis
to this. It's just kind ofit was. It was definitely a product
of its time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you really didn't like the
sickness angle it was. I thinkit's interesting. It's just I don't know,

(01:54:10):
it's there's well, and I havecomplicated feelings about it. Yeah,
there there had to be the becauseI mean it was a recon so to
speak. But like you know,nominor the whole introduction all of that,
you know, the manipulation, um, the fact that Vergiers tears was or

(01:54:31):
were the the cure for coomb sporers. Weren't they coombsporers? I think,
yeah, sports I'm sure because Ihated it because Bar was sick and like
the entire time and and it mademe I appreciate her more when she when
she returned. But yeah, sothere's we have to come back. We

(01:54:55):
could do an entire like half houron on for him. One can go
further than that on Vigier alone.Um, because and we all love Matthew
Staver, so we should just kindof like do um like a pause or
not pausing forgive me, but likea little spot on Vergier. Yeah,
no, change everything m hm.And people say, you know, she

(01:55:16):
got retrocon reconned into becoming a sith, and it's like, I still agree
with like the decision they made.And I think that it's just like because
I know that a lot of peoplesay to that undone like an undue undes
but what was done with Matthew StoverAnd it's just like I don't think so

(01:55:40):
it's clear that like she you know, uh that she is clearly has evil
tendencies, Like look what she doesto you, Jason, regardless of yeah,
regardless of the you know, theenlightenment that you're trying to get to.
It's just like, um, Imean, you know we all remember
Deadpool, right, and just likeshe puts them in the chamber where you
can't just bring enough to stay alive. So it's like and it's like essentially

(01:56:04):
that's like what's going on with theEmbrace of Pain? Like, well,
so what's twisted creature? I'm sorry? Well, and you think about the
Embrace of Pain, like Jason keptit and used it on Ben. And
you know when someone gets tortured andvictimized is sometimes they unfortunately become that same

(01:56:30):
kind of person um and he reallydid with this case with you know,
wanting to use that device and torturinghis poor Niles, his cousin, and
like, which is just crazy.Like, uh, Jason, we got
a lot of things to say aboutJason. Um actually you were talking about

(01:56:53):
her tears. It just brings mea little thought about freak mythology again.
Um So, Medusa, she's oneof those characters that is obviously always misunderstood
because she was a rape victim thatwas turned into a gorgon, or she
was a gorgon but turned into thesnake headed gorgon that we know her.
But her name actually means savior andwhen you take her blood, it actually

(01:57:15):
will heal you. And her bloodwas given to one of Apollo's children who's
kind of like the god of medicine, and he starts saving people with her
blood and that just kind of Idon't know, it, just her moment
made me think about Medusa and howshe's this character who has put into the
situation and like changed not by herown any of her faults. And it's

(01:57:38):
kind of like with Vigier, likeshe's forced to become in Bong basically like
a toy for them and then liveswith them for fifty odd years until she
can come back, and at leastlike she kind of held them off for
a little while, but to apoint, you know. So moving on,
So, yeah, we have toreturn for the Yeah, all right,

(01:58:01):
speaking every turney, I'm gonna haveto tap out. I got some
stuff. I gotta get ready fortomorrow. Lovely. Uh yeah, thanks
having me on. I know youguys are gonna go for like probably another
hour, so I also have tolike like get out here soon. So
we'll get to we'll get towards theend here. Do you want to talk
a little bit before about Mara beforewe leave, so you get some I

(01:58:27):
talked a little bit about it earlier, but I just I I love how
complex she is and I love thatlike she's not any one thing. Um
and I love I love how well, like what an amazing narrative foil she
is for Luke um because they're reallylike he needs somebody like her around to

(01:58:53):
not be nice because he's too nice. Um Like he's also tempered death.
But like you know, it's II just I love their relationship like they're
just they really they balanced well offof each other. Um. And I
really I really wish, like,um, so timothy's On was writing a

(01:59:15):
like Skywalker Family road Trip book whenmom was killed off, and like you
know, because he wasn't told inadvanced really that she was going to be
killed off, and after how muchfun the Luke and Ben road trip was
and Fade of the Jedi, Ijust really I wish I could like see
timothy's On's notes from that or something, because I feel like that would have

(01:59:36):
been such a fun book. Um. But yeah, I love her,
which is great. I M Ilove doing her costume. I love the
I talked a little bit earlier aboutthe Saber Guild performance that I do with
her, and I just like it'sso like I don't know, I feel

(02:00:00):
the word empowering is over you Sometimesbut like I just feel so great when
I do that show, and it'sbecause the show is really just about like
Mara overcoming like just really like youknow, so already defeated Palpatine's last command,
but she still like is dealing witha lot of stuff internally about it,
and it's just such a like powerfulthing to perform that. Um yeah,

(02:00:23):
I just I She's really great,and I think that it's rare in
any franchise or any story that weget such a complex female character. Um
So I really appreciate her the waythat she is. Yeah, how did
you feel about her her death scene? You feel it was at least written
well or no? Because like Iagree with Timothy's on on this because like

(02:00:47):
I talked to him at a conventionabout it once, you know, and
he said, you know, likehis his I don't want to put words
into his mouth. I don't wantto say like displeasure or anything like that
because I don't want to like putthose words into his mouth. Like what
he said to me was that whenmar j decides to kill somebody, that
person is dead, she wouldn't hesitate. And I really think that, like

(02:01:08):
with how brutally she was trained,by the Empire that she would not fall
for Jason, you know, likeprojecting Ben's face over his own so he
can stabber in the angle with apoisoned dart Like that's just not Yeah,
like you know, I I thinkI do like the situation of the reason

(02:01:31):
that she was going after Jason isbecause like this is you know, like
she's having like a trauma spiral basicallybecause she sees like with what happened to
her, and she's seeing signs ofthat of what's happening to Ben, and
you know, because Jason is torturinghim and you know, like manipulating him
and all that kind of stuff,and so she's freaking out. Um,

(02:01:53):
And like that that setup is good, but just the the execution of it
was just I'm not I'm not afan. Don't behaves like any mother would
like. I love that she doesn'tdo any kind of bonaloguing, like she
just goes in for the kill.Yeah, yes, yeah, like and
it's it's I think I think honestly, it would have been like I know

(02:02:15):
that the story wasn't done with Jasonyet, um, but it would have
been really interesting the repercussions, Likeif she had been the one to kill
him, like within the family,like that would that would dramatically change her
relationship with Leia. You know,even if Leia, you know, understood
that this was necessary, like justthe there would still be like, you
know, you still can't get overyou know, if somebody killed your kid,

(02:02:36):
like even if they deserved it,like you know, and they were
messing with your kid kind of thing, Like It's just it would have been
really interesting to explore. Yeah,I mean he did try to shoot her
down at one point, Leah,that is yeah, so I mean apting
his death like yeah, when hewent to Maura's funeral, Oh oh man,

(02:03:00):
like yeah, yeah, it makesyour blood coil huh yeah yeah,
but and yeah and and on thatnote, like you know, mar jide
Is is quite the the women orthe woman of legends to to uh out

(02:03:25):
on for for my my time inthis here, I think too, because
it's getting a little bit late.I had I've been up in Spi theorty
this morning, so I'm probably alsogoing to uh to come to a close
here with Eliza. There's more highwe almost still we only managed to do
one yeah, but we maybe yeah, but we covered a lot of ground

(02:03:50):
and a whole lot of awesome charactersat least up until the New Republic here.
I said, that's not too bad, like a quick shout out,
you know, like Zanizar Natassi dalaAyala lyrics, tanyathel Jana, Christina Lobi
to Heary, you know, Vastara. We did talk about Vastara, you

(02:04:11):
to GeV. We didn't really patHer, and we definitely didn't chat about
Tennell, who is fan favorite forall of us and Hape and Queen.
I speaking speaking of Tennell, Ijust want to have one little like we
were robbed kind of thing of byyou know, things ending. I I
forever want Alana solo as like ateenager writing her next sue into battle,

(02:04:36):
like yeah, awesome. That wouldbe like we were gonna get it,
you know we were, yes,yeah, it was like it was already
in the mix, you know,and as just like a young Mexic like
getting out there and getting some teethon, you know. Yeah, yeah,
it was happening. She's goody,she's grace, she'll be here excellent

(02:05:00):
face. Yeah, oh that's yeah. Yeah. I agree. We have
so much that we lost out on, but at least we have so much
that we have at this point.Yes, and like, look at all
these amazing characters that you know wecan talk about and like just sit for
hours and I tire you guys out, Like I'm still like I drink coffee,

(02:05:23):
let's go. And I don't drinkcoffee. Oh my gosh. If
I would have known, I wouldhave I would have done all that.
Well, I did send you thephotos of my notes, but you know
me, I always go for aboard. Oh oh it's okay though it's a
great episode. Well we can alwaysdo apart two some other times. So,

(02:05:47):
but Catherine, thank you so muchfor joining us again. And if
you could share with the listeners wherethey can get a hold of you and
what more to come with Legends calledYeah, so the Legends consocial media is
at Legends Underscore con on Twitter andInstagram and at Legends Consortium All one Word

(02:06:11):
on Facebook and Tumblr. Um myown social media, I'm Martian Underscore Mara
on Instagram and Twitter. Um,I don't really use either of them personally.
I spend time managing other accounts anddon't really do much with my own.
Um, the Martian is that's mymy day job for I'm a planetary
scientist. I do stuff with marsum so yes, Marsian Mara cute little

(02:06:36):
name. Um, but yeah,like I said, I don't really use
either of those very much. Um. I know, I posted a video
of my cat like that's That's whatInstagram mostly is for me is cat pictures
and occasionally cosplay pictures. So rah. Yeah, and Kyle, you want

(02:07:00):
to you can get a hold ofSure, you can find me at darnk
Tarn on Twitter, or you canu find me at Left Hand Path twenty
three on Instagram. Perfect and everyone. You can always get a hold of
things. Yeah, what about tolet Well we'll mention the construction at the

(02:07:20):
end. I'm sorry. Yeah,Well you can get a hold of both
Kyle and I through Legend's Library umat gmail or podcast at gmail dot com.
Also on Facebook and on Twitter.I do try to stay up on
Twitter. I don't always so becausesuch a hate that's a completely functioning website.

(02:07:45):
Now yes, few months y Yeah, I did. I will say
this. I did block Eli ofus because it was trending and I went,
I'm gonna do it. Not likehe ever paid it engine to this
show, but you know, heyfavorite it. Yeah, he doesn't seem

(02:08:07):
Yeah, I've got start League.I keep calling it, Uh, what's
it in with Arnold Schwartzenegger. Ijust blanked on it. Skynet. I
keep calling it skynet. And likepeople who are like you have what I'm
like, I have kind of youknow, Elon Musk and they're like,

(02:08:28):
it's like, I don't know why, It's just in my mind. Like
so anyway, Yeah, you canget a hold of us through Legends Library
Podcasts at gmail dot com. Andeveryone, thanks again for joining in and
listening to this episode. U pleaseshare your thoughts on you know, your
great favorite female characters who kit buttAnd we'll be back for more coming soon.

(02:08:50):
And I'm Lisa, and I'm Kyleand I'm Catherine and may the Force
be with you. I That concludesthis edition of Legends Library Podcasts. To
join the discussion, email us atLegends Library Podcasts at gmail dot com,

(02:09:11):
or follow us on Twitter or discordat Legends Library. This podcast is not
endorsed by the Walt Disney Company orLucasville Limited. It is intended for informational
or entertainment purposes only. Official StarWars website can be found at www dot
star Wars dot Com. Star Wars, all named sounds in any other related
items are registered trademarks and are copyrightsto Disney in respective copyright holders. All

(02:09:33):
original content of this podcast is theintellectual property of Legends Library. Podcast otherwise
indicated Legends Library. There's always beena truth in legends.

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