CIA Officer UAP Encounter: What Jim Semivan Revealed About the Government 80-Year Secret

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The majority of my career, I was not the least
bit interested in UAP. But it wasn't until this incident
my wife and I had in the early nineties that
really changed everything. So I was there and I was

(00:22):
unable to move, but I wasn't afraid, and the entities
were like nothing you know, I've ever seen in the
literature before. And they may have downcraft, they may have
you know, pictures, I've seen them. You know, you absolutely startling.

(00:43):
And that's the other part of it. When you actually
see the evidence. The evidence is all classified and they
won't let it out when you see it. And then
you have people, very serious people, scientists, sitting you down
and telling you, oh yeah, this is real clairvoyant, this
is real remote viewing Israel, telekinesis is and they're going

(01:03):
through all these size and then they start giving you
the information and they start telling you about plastified programs
that you go, I mean, where the hell will you
put this? If you have a twenty five percent, you know,
like twenty percent of your population either becomes sick, ill, dead,
or just disassociates for some reason or other, civilization can

(01:28):
be on the verge of collapse. Food production shuts down.
Everything shuts down. I think they view us as property.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
This later Welcome to Later Files. Today's conversation completely changed
my perspective on UFO disclosure and why our government has
handled this topic the way has. Our guest spent thirty
four years in the CIA. That's including twenty five years

(02:06):
as an operations officer in the National Clanenstein Service. He
was running spies, managing classified programs, and serving as special
assistant to the Deputy Director of Operations. But it was
his personal UAP experience in the early nineties that sent
him on a decades long investigation into the phenomenon, connecting

(02:27):
him with others inside the intelligence community who had been
quietly studying this for eighty years. The Invisible College. Jim
Semivan isn't just another whistleblower making claims. He's someone who's
seen the classified evidence. He knows the people in the
legacy programs, and he understands why this is what he
calls the wickedest problem facing humanity. By the end of

(02:49):
this discussion, I found myself with a different perspective and
understanding of the CIA's role in this mystery, and maybe
for the first time, I actually understand and why disclosure
is so much more complicated than any of us on
the outside realize. This conversation changed my perspective. I think

(03:09):
it might change yours too. Thank you so much, Jim
for being here. How are you doing, sir, I'm fine.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
Chris, your CIA background and UAP awareness is such an
interesting crossroads. You know, when did you first become aware
of UAPs during your intelligence career and how did that
shape your decision to co found to the Stars Academy after.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
That's a good question, you know, and for the majority
of my career I was not the least bit interested
in UAP and it didn't affect, you know, my job.
My job was as a you know, member of the
Clandestine Service. I was an operations officer, especially a guy
who ran spies or ran programs, and I ran quite

(04:04):
a few of both. So it wasn't until my wife
and I had an experience back in the early nineties
that I became interested in UAP. Before then, since I
was in college, I had a strong interest in what
we would consider the occult, but it was mostly mysticism,

(04:27):
the concept of romanticism in German Romanticism British, American trans
and netalism, things along those lines, and that led me
to an interest in things that were unseen, let's put
it that way, sort of the secret history of the world, right,
And so I'd always had that as sort of a
hobby aside hobby, but it wasn't until this incident my

(04:49):
wife and I had in the early nineties that it
really changed everything. And I began to inquire more about
you aps and look into UFOs, and I checked with
some friends of mine at the agency who did have
an interest in them, and they led me to or

(05:10):
pointed me towards some books, mostly Jacques Falaise books. And
I've since gotten to note Jock very well and he's
a good friend. And but that started my interest. So
for the last you know, thirty five forty years, I've
been studying it. I'm a student of this. I'm not

(05:30):
a researcher. I ain't stretch of the imagination, but I
do do a lot of research, read quite a few books,
and talked to quite a few people in the community
about this. So I have a decent background.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
And that's so interesting. You were in the CIA, and
I'm just assuming here that you had no interest at
all in UAPs. And then you had this encounter you
mentioned with your wife. Can you talk through that basic
encounter just so the audience has an idea.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
Yeah, it was. It was a typical encounter. When I
say typical, it had a lot of the characteristics of
what we would call an abduction scenario. I don't call
it that because I have no clue what it was,
you know, and I hate putting a name on it.

(06:22):
I just call it an experience, and it is essentially,
you know, it had some of the classic elements. Like
I said, it's laying in bed one night, woke up
laying on my back and looking at the foot of
the bed, and there were these three entities there right.
And what was startling about it was it was as

(06:46):
real as me talking to you. It was almost realer
than real, if you can imagine that. So I was
there and I was unable to move, but I wasn't afraid,
and the entities were like nothing you know, I've ever
seen in the literature before. Later on, I've I've learned

(07:06):
that these types of entities have shown themselves two or
three times to other people, once in Spain, once in Mauritius,
and then me right. There might have been other people
that have seen these things too, but I had a
friend of mine or researcher you know, named them or
calls them by bend them by bendi, which is the

(07:27):
plural for a by bend them. By bend them is
the name of the mission entire man, you know, the
like the body arm or white body armorer. When in
mine had a sort of type black body armor on.
So I was and it wasn't particularly unpleasant. It was uh.

(07:49):
And then you know, I had this, you know, they
were looking at me and they had to look like
a little tiny smiles, but I couldn't tell. And then
there was another part these experience. He's UPTI spear. Sometimes
they're broken up. It's like a film, you know, you
seeing something and all of a sudden it shoots to
another take, and then it shoots to another take, and
there's no rhyme or reason for it. The first one

(08:10):
was in color, the second two were in black and
white for strange reason I don't know. But then again,
I was at in the middle of my street behind
my house with my wife and some entity, very tall
entity was behind me and we he was pointing up
to the sky, and I was looking at the sky
and there were these three orbs in the sky and

(08:33):
a triangular pattern, and and I'm staring at them, and
they merged into one and it shot off, and I
remember saying to my wife, let's get the fuck out
of here before they come back. That's exactly the phrase

(08:53):
I used. And I mean, that's what I remember saying
to my wife. And then it it's like a film,
and the other part of it is my wife and
I trying to get back into the house right she
and her nightgown, you know, and me stark naked because
that's how I sleep. And then at exactly seven am

(09:15):
in the morning, I wake up laying on my back
totally wide awake, which is highly unusual for me. I'm
not a good I don't wake up well ever, and
I'm always groggy. I was just beside myself. I couldn't
believe this experience. And I looked at my right and

(09:40):
my wife wasn't there, and she was in the bathroom.
So I went over and knocked on the door, and
she opened a door, and she was clearly in a
bad way, and I said, what's the matter, and she said,
I don't know she said, just really, I'm bleeding pretty badly,
and she said, I don't know what this is all about.

(10:00):
I never had this issue before, so we had to
get her to the doctor. And this lasted for this
condition lasted for seventeen days. I had a physical issue.
I had a hole in the back of my neck,
which my wife found later that morning. I knew it

(10:20):
was there. I just thought it was a scratcher temple
or something. But it was a round hole. It was
the size of a pencil eraser, and it wasn't bleeding
profusely or anything like that, but it was there, and
so I didn't think anything of it. I didn't focus
on it. And it was later the next day. I

(10:44):
was in work, and I think it was on a Friday,
and I was still sort of it wasn't perturbed about this.
I didn't know what to put it. You know, what
the hell happened? Right? And my wife's a clinical psychologist,
so you know, we I know quite a bit about
liminal states and lucid dreaming and nightmares and all that

(11:06):
kind of stuff, so this clearly didn't fit into this
category at all and is just something totally different. So anyway,
I ran into somebody in the agency who was a
deep cover officer who was in my branch at the time,
and just happened to share it with him. And he
was a UFO of ficionado, you know, a sort of

(11:28):
a researcher on his own. He had a doctorate. I
knew that. I didn't know his real name. He was
a non official covered officer who was working back in
the States until he went overseas again. And then he
told me essentially, what you had was sounds like a classic,
you know, abduction experience. And then he went through the

(11:48):
whole thing and he asked me if there was any
unexplained bleeding, and that's that's when I sort of freaked
out a little bit. And he asked me if I
had any marks on me, and I said, now, I
don't think so, and he goes nothing at all in
his scoop marks and I said, no, I can't think
of anything. And he said, what about the back of
your neck? Just like that? And I went like, you know,

(12:11):
moving my head around. And I always wore these white shirts,
you know, and you know, typical agency uniform, you know,
and with a food lard ties out. He comes over,
he undoes it right, and he pulls it back and
he goes, yeah, you got a perfect hole, he said.
He got blood on your collar, he said. And so anyway,
long story short, that was that he told me what
to do. He told me what to look up. And

(12:31):
then later on I started asking questions very carefully at
the agency. And there are people in all the intelligence
community and through D O D that study this and
their name was the Invisible College back in the day,

(12:52):
and so I got in touch with them and learned
a little bit. I pushed the envelop a little bit
while I was in the agency. I became a few
years after that special assistant to the Deputy Director of Operations,
the chief Spy. Did that for almost two years, and

(13:14):
it was then that I learned that there are a
lot of agency people, very seniors, people who actually did
have a strong interest in this. But I didn't identify
any programmer or anything like that that the agency had.
So it wasn't until I retired and I went back
to work for the agency in another capacity, and was

(13:38):
around twenty fourteen that I met a fellow from the Pentagon,
John Alexander, who you probably know. I met him at
a conference on energy and he had just finished his book,
written his book on UFOs, and so I chatted him
up and told him my story, and then he came

(14:02):
to my house videotape my wife and I and then
the next thing, you know, he sent it off. He
went to talk to some of his colleagues, and then
I started getting phone calls from well, first Jacques Fla
came to my house, spent the day together, and then

(14:22):
a group of people came to my house and took
my medical files, took blood samples, saliva, you know, you name. It,
gave me a hip of restricted briefing on on intelligence

(14:42):
and people intelligence officers and jaysock officers and pilots and
who've had encounters with UAP UFOs and what had happened
to them physically. So that was a little bit of
a shock. And so anyway, that's sort of how it began.

(15:04):
And then later on I got briefed classified briefings, not
so much on UAP, but on other areas of what
we would call paranormal or we would call the phenomenon
and what it is aspects of it. And I had
that and that's that was that was life altering for me,

(15:25):
realizing that, yeah, all this, all this stuff is actually true.
And oh, by the way, we don't know what the
hell it is.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
I mean, that's that story is mind blowing. I mean
that must have changed your whole outlook, right, especially when
you have your wife there who can really fully corroborate
the experience for you, right, you know, if it happened
to myself alone, yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
Well, my wife didn't doesn't remember anything. She had no
no recall of anything at all except that she had
a physical physical issue. My wife, and by the same token,
comes from a family that that have had these experiences before.
Her mother in particular recently passed away, used to tell

(16:13):
her when she was kids, you know it's yeah, you know,
I have I have children up that. She would point
to the sky, you know, I have children up there.
And her mother's always said that. I remember, you know,
meeting her mother. We've been married forty some years, forty
four years, and her mother always talked about that. So
it sort of runs in her family. But she doesn't
have any particular recall of that now. In the same time,

(16:33):
we lived in a house in Virginia that had what
you would call now classic poultry geist activity. My wife
and I we don't have any children, and we're generally
very easy going and my wife's very spiritual, so it
didn't bother us at all. As a matter of fact,
we didn't. We sort of welcomed it. It was one

(16:54):
of those things where you know, the noises at night, cigarettes,
smoke in our room, the uh, the entities, you know,
rubbing my wife's head and patting my wife's head, odd
things in the house, you know, being moved. I mean
it was. It was amusing more than anything else. But
I never really gave it much thought. In My wife

(17:16):
and I were like, well, stuff like this happens. You know,
it's it's and through my studies I knew this was happening.
But what I did was you don't give it energy, right,
you know, you know, focus on it. You don't get scared,
you don't get happy, you don't do anything it is.
Let it alone. If it's there, it's there. At one point,
my wife got together with some of her friends who

(17:36):
were spiritually inclined, and they asked it, this entity, you know,
if it's okay, and if it needed anything, and if
it wanted to stay, it was welcome to stay at
our house. And and and but if it needed to
move on it then you know, they would help it
move on. Well, it left and it hadn't come back,

(17:57):
and so that was pretty interesting.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
What's also I find interesting is that you know, most people,
a lot of my audience members who have had UEP
or crazy experiences like that, when they bring it up
with people, they're very skeptical. You know, they initially get
the stigma immediately, people look at them like they're crazy.
But you got the complete opposite from inside the CIA.

(18:20):
You know, how did he know about the back of
your neck or why would he bring up bleeding exactly?
Do you know did you get any more information on that?

Speaker 1 (18:28):
Yeah? I mean, I mean essentially, when you when you
research the topic, and I've done that very very much.
I mean I spend I spent all my free time
doing this. So it's when your research you know that
there are, like I said, elements of these experiences, and
you they're pretty much the same worldwide. There are some

(18:53):
elements that are a little bit different than others, but
more or less, these the storylines the same and narrative
if it's the same. Get you know, you get abducted,
you go onto a craft and I don't remember any
craft at all. But you have these these things that happen, right,
and there's a sequence of how they happen, and then
usually at the end there's what I think Peter Sturk

(19:16):
called a theophany, which which is really a catharsis where
we were people change. The best example of that is
Chris Bledsoe, a dear friend of mine, who you know,
went from sheer terror at his experience to this wonderful, beautiful,
spiritual transformation. Now that happens that did not happen with me.
As a matter of fact, I'm not exactly the opposite,

(19:39):
but I look at what happened to me is more
of a human rights violation than anything else. So I'm very,
very interested in trying to find out more about it,
what it actually was, what it is. And I have
to tell you, and after forty some odd years and
speaking to everybody in the business, and I know them

(19:59):
all classified and unclassified, nobody has a nobody has a clue.
Really really nobody has a clue. I mean, in the end,
you can you can talk to them and they'll they'll
give you, you know, you know, their interpretation or their
best guests or the best estimate but even the people

(20:22):
in the legacy programs, uh, you know, the one that's
been studying this for the government for like eighty years.
I mean, they don't know. They don't know they and
they may have downcraft, they may have you know, pictures,
I've seen them. You know, you absolutely startling. And that's

(20:44):
the other part of it. When you actually see the evidence.
The evidence is all classified and they won't let it
out and okay, you know, it's a whole other topic
we can get into if you want, the idea of disclosure.
But when you see it, and then you have people,
very serious people, scientists, sitting you down and telling you, oh, yeah,
this is real, clairvoyance is real, remote viewing is real,

(21:06):
telekinesis is real, and they're going through all these size
psychic you know things you know, I you and then
they start giving you the information and they start telling
you about plastified programs that you go, I mean, where
the hell will you put this? And then you're looking
for explanations. It's like they are because you you want

(21:29):
to go to science, and you want to go to
science and you want to say, okay, where does this
fit in to what we know? And there is no place.
I think the closest approximation we have is probably quantum
mechanics and consciousness, this study of consciousness. But when you
look at both of those areas, both of those areas

(21:50):
are you know, they're sort of in their infancy. We
know very very little. And as one physicist mentioned, you said,
if you know, if quantum mechanics doesn't scare, you're not.
You don't really know what quant mechanics is all about,
because essentially it's just basically challenge. It's all a quantum
illusion that we're living in, right so, which is very complicated.
It comes very very complicated after a while. There's a

(22:13):
nuts a bolt aspect to it. People see things in
the sky and they point to it, or they see
you know, uh, maybe a non human intelligence or an
alien or they what have you, and they see it
is physical and they can relate to that. But really
that's sort of a facade in a way. The question
is a serious question is well, what's behind it? What

(22:37):
does it mean, what are the intentions, what are the capabilities?
And then what does it mean for our default reality
that we're living in. Are we living in in a
reality that's really a consensus reality? But not the true reality.
So it very very quickly becomes very complicated and also

(22:58):
very scary if you think about it. So we like
to live in a world that's you know, we see it.
It's very materialistic and mechanistic, you know, and we rarely
go into the spiritual or rarely go into some of
the weirder aspects of this. But if you want to

(23:19):
know where the real world exists, it's not in what
you see around you. It's it's what you don't see.
And maybe it's because our sense sensory package isn't geared
to see it. I mean, our brain is blinkered somewhat right.

(23:40):
It's it's it's a veil and we haven't broken through that. Now.
Some people have, some mystics have done that, some people
who are a fascinating show the other day on Coast
to Coast radio on dm DMT dimethyl trip to mean,
you know, and this little molecule chemical in your brain
pushes you into another world, absolutely fascinating. Everybody sees the

(24:04):
same thing when they do this, when they're put on
this drug. How unusual is that it's like ayahuasca. Taking ayahuasca,
which I have never done, but.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
You were in the CIA for so many years, and
they seem even open minded about it. Why do you
think the government at least appears, you know, very hesitant
to acknowledge that any of this is real, and they
continue to promote the narrative that you know, it doesn't exist,
there's no non human intelligence, et cetera.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
Well, you know, interestingly, the government has been doing this
this one person called a tradition of disbelief. I mean,
they manufactured this back in the in the forties when
when they ran into the problem. They knew about this
back in early in the thirties actually, and they didn't.
I mean, it was so far beyond what they could comprehend.

(25:00):
And it wasn't until the forties with the Roswell crash
and then another crash that they realized they had a problem,
a very big problem. And what do you do with this?
It wasn't serendipitous that this crash occurred near near Roswell

(25:25):
Air Force Base, which basically was a nuclear or nuclear base, right,
So it has an affinity. This this phenomenon has an
affinity for nuclear materials, so it shows up all over
the place. But anyway, so what do you do, your president? Truman,
and you know, your top Air Force generals come up
to you and say, you won't believe what we have,
that we have bodies, that we have these crash and

(25:46):
we don't understand anything about it. Truman stuck with it,
and you know, it's a hot potato. The Air Force
doesn't want it, you know, because what the hell are
they going to do with it? So what does Truman do?
You know, the National Defense of nineteen forty seventy creates CIA.
He creates it's a department of the fence. He creates
the joints, Chiefs of Staff, he and you know, some

(26:09):
other entities. And then he says, well, okay, lets you know,
he picks two right and says YouTube, look at this.
So the CIA at that time had the charter to
do that, and so did the Air Force. So the
Air Force and the CIA at that time picked up
on this topic. Now they have not admitted this in
any way, shape or form. And I'm not speaking officially

(26:33):
either on this. I can't so I you know, but
those are the most logical people to pick this up
and run with it. So the agency has put out
an unclassified history of their involvement with UFOs and it's
on their website. You can read it, and it talks
about it, you know, and it talks about you know,

(26:55):
who they put in charge and you know what elements
were in charge of this and looking at it, and
they were very interested in it because it's it's and
they remain interested in it because they that's their charter.
They have to prevent another Pearl Harbor, right, and so
does the Air Force. So things like this just don't
go away now the government. What the government is not doing.

(27:18):
The government isn't saying that this isn't real. The government
is basically saying, we're not going to officially confirm that
this is true. We're not going to come out officially
and say that. And I think the reason for that
is because they don't know what to say. You know.
I was on a podcast not too long ago and
somebody asked me, you know, about disclosure, And there's this

(27:42):
concept now that's being discussed limited disclosure versus catastrophic disclosure.
Catastrophic disclosure is where the president comes out and it
has to be the president, it can't be anybody else
comes out and says, all right, we're not alone in
the universe and there are three to six different types

(28:07):
of alien species or non human intelligence that have visited
the planet and are currently on the planet. We have
crashed saucers and just basically let's loose with everything that
the government knows. The end result of that is relatively unknown.

(28:27):
We don't know how anybody would react to it. And
I think particularly if the president says we don't know
their intentions or capabilities. Well, the president's job is a
defended constitution of the United States, and it's also to

(28:48):
defend the American people. SE's what the military's job is,
that's what intelligence community's job is. And now you're going
out and you're telling people, a, there are these non
human intelligences that are on this planet, have been on
this planet probably for two thousand years recorded history, and
they have these ability to take you at any moment.

(29:11):
They have the ability to plant memories in your mind.
They can control you, they can control me, they can
control everybody. So essentially, what he's saying is we're no
longer at the top of the food chain, right, And
he's even going further than that, because he's saying, well,
they may be godlike, they may be omniscient, they may

(29:33):
be the gods. I mean, every major religion talks about
sky gods. There isn't one that doesn't coming down and
giving them this right. Everyone look at Genesis. I mean,
you know you can go to every single particularly the Indian,
the Vedas and Mahabarata, things along those lines. So it

(29:53):
then pushes these social sociocultural issues up from now You're
just people are saying, well, what's what's reality? What's true?
And you know, the civilization break down. You know, most

(30:14):
sociologists and I don't know demographers will tell you that
if you have a twenty five percent, you know, like
twenty percent of your population either becomes sick, ill, dead,
or just disassociates for some reason or other, civilization can

(30:35):
be on the virgic collapse. Food production shuts down, everything
shuts down. So I think when you know, there was
a study done in two thousand and four. I know
how put Off talks about this study. He was involved
in it, put together by a group psychologists, religious people,
things along those signs, and the question was posed to them.

(30:57):
You know what what happened if the government came out
and admitted you know, there was disclosure and admitted all
this and at the beginning of this is what How's
telling me. In the beginning of the conference, they all
agreed the government should come out. Everybody has a right
to know. After three three days of the conference, every

(31:20):
single one of them said, absolutely not. Because they gained it.
They gained it. They gained it. And and you know,
this is what we call, you know, what sociologists would
call and you know, industrial psychologists would call a wicked problem.
A wicked problem is something that it's a problem that
has a lot of elements to it and it's generally unresolvable.

(31:46):
The it's like poverty, world poverty. How do you solve
world poverty? Well, you can game it, and you can
go and sit into a room and it's a wicked problem.
And you list all the things you would have to
do and as all these political things, social things, cultural things, finance,
and there is so many things that you need to
do to do this correctly that it almost becomes impossible.

(32:08):
So you have to take it one thing at a time. Well,
this particular problem UAP is what I call the er
you are problem, right, it's the er wicked problem and
it is like beyond anything. We we don't have a
texonomy we don't have an ontology to even speak of this,
don't have a lexicon, We don't know anything. This thing

(32:29):
shows itself when it wants to show itself, it tells
us very very little about it. So we're totally in
the dark. So what do you do? There was a
wonderful book book, series of books that were written called
The Three Body Problem, and I always tell people that
if you're interested in science fiction, these are well worthwhile.

(32:52):
But Netflix did a Netflix show called The Three Body Problem,
and I urge people to look at it because I
think it's a very good rendering of what would happen
if we did have disclosure. And you know, and there
there are groups of people who basically disassociate. They just said, well,

(33:12):
they're going to start worshiping these these aliens who are
coming to our planet, you know, actually to take over
the planet and kill everybody. Not that I want to
spoil anything, but they totally dissociate, right, and they go
someplace else. And then you have other people, you know,
these preppers is go into the wilderness and they're gonna
they're just going to do everything else. So society it

(33:33):
becomes very very problematic for society, right, So and I
think that's it. And then there's whole idea of limited disclosure. Well,
the president comes out and the President says, well, you know,
we're not alone on the planet or in the universe,
and there are other things here. But you can't just
say that. The president can't just say that because it
will beg a million questions, and then the narrative isn't complete. Now,

(33:58):
the narrative isn't complete even with catastrophic you know, disclosure,
But even with a limited disclosure, you're stuck with who's
going to fill the remainder of that narrative? And then
you're looking at but who actually would Joe Rogan would
you know? Sean Hannity would uh? And I'm not just
trying to go to the right here, but you know,

(34:18):
Tucker Carlson, every single person has had an abduction experience
with FILLI in. And you're going to get all this
information that creates this new narrative, and none of it
is really accurate because nobody knows the answer. So people
make stuff up and you end up with new a
new religion, so to speak. And out of that morass

(34:41):
of opinions that you're going to be getting, it's going
to come up something that may be really ugly, you know,
And I think people, I think the government knows that,
and and and and plus the government doesn't know. It
really doesn't know what to say it. It has no
response to what do we do about this? They can't

(35:01):
They've been studying this for eighty years. It's it's like
they don't know what the hell it is. The you know,
we're living in, you know, in twenty first century physics,
right If this phenomenon, if this UAP phenomenon is twenty
fifth century physics, what I mean, can you blame science?

(35:22):
Can you blame anybody? I mean for looking at this
and saying, what the hell will we do with it?
Do we create a problem with There isn't a problem
because right now, Nhi, the phenomenon UAP does not impinge
on most people's lives. And I say most people, I'm
talking about ninety five percent of the world population. It

(35:43):
just doesn't. It impinges on the military, it impinges on
people like me, you know, maybe five percent of the population,
ten percent of the population. It doesn't. They don't know what,
they don't know what to do with it. They don't
know where to go, and they go to Congress with it,
doesn't know what to do about it. Congress is just
be fuddled, you know, as everybody else is. So it's

(36:05):
a conundrum, it really truly is. And I'm not against
disclosure at all. I'm just I'm hoping that somebody can
find a way to do it that's responsible, that we
know that we're not going to be setting off or
opening up a Pandora's box. And this is something that's
discussed quite frequently among people in the UFO community, not
just me saying this. It's very curious people have issues

(36:29):
with this. My dear friend Chris Mellan, you know, you know,
he's a big fan of disclosure, and he makes I think,
wonderful arguments, brilliant arguments on this, and I don't disagree
with them. I'm just not sure the outcome. Just not sure.
No one, by the way, you know, has done more,

(36:50):
you know, to push disclosure than like Blue Elissando and
Chris Mellan and now Dave Grush. You know, these guys
are these guys are out there and you know, and
they're doing this all the time to push this because
in a way, I mean, their point is very well taken.
I mean, you can't deny reality to people. You can't say,

(37:12):
oh gee, I'm not going to tell you what's real,
you know, because it's too scary. You know. I just
tend to be more cautious about it, and you know,
I'm not against it coming out. I just want to
hopefully find a way to do it where it does
it creates as the problems are minimal, right. I always
go back to that that quote from a ts Eliot

(37:33):
poem in the Four Quartets, one of his more famous ponents.
Or he said, you know, mankind cannot bear too much reality.
A human kind cannot bear much reality. And I think
there's a lot to be said for that. We have
to be careful. Some people aren't well tethered to the
ground and you throw something like this at them, and

(37:55):
you say, well, for instance, let me give you the example,
like if you talk to a quantum physicists and you
said to him or her, tell me what quantum mechanics
says about reality, and they'll tell you. They'll talk to
you about superpositioning, and they'll talk about entanglement, they'll talk
about all kinds of stuff. But they'll also tell you like, well,

(38:15):
you know, space is made up of emptiness. It's just empty.
And oh, by the way, you know your reality is
really based on probabilities and chance and not you know,
there's there's no there's no you know, mechanistic where these
are going to happen. We don't know what's gonna happen
at anyone given point. It just happens as it goes.

(38:37):
But you also, when you look at it, you know,
they'll also tell you that. You know, Chris Later and
Jim Simmavan are just two big massives of spinning electrons
talking to one another, and everything around them, including the
pictures behind you, the books, behind me, the desk, their headphones.
They're just empty space basically, and made up of electrons, protons, neutrons, quarks, muons.

(39:03):
But most of that is empty space. So what does
that mean about us? What does that say about our reality?
What does that say? You know? I mean we're physical
because of you know, opposing electron forces and maybe the
strong nuclear force. It pushes us together and these faces
and these bodies and this desk and what have you.
But when you look behind it, when you look at

(39:24):
it closely, this is this is just energy patterns, And
so are we just energy? Patterns, And if we are
just energy patterns, what the hell does that mean? I
don't know. It's it's uh, you know, I don't stay
up at night anymore thinking about it, but you know
sometimes I do.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
Yeah. I think we just take for granted that we
that we know so much, and like you just mentioned there,
we just know so little, you know. We we don't
know why radiation happens. Like no one knows why anything
why we have radiation at all. Like there's no explanation

(40:05):
in physics. We don't know really what matter is. You
set electrons and protons interacting with each other, but then
when you try and actually find out what that is.
Even in quantum mechanics, it's all different fields, right, So
it's just fields of energy.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
Yeah. And you know, and and the problem with UAP
in general and this phenomenon in general and NHIE it's
it's multidisciplinary. I mean, it covers science, but it also
covers sociology, and it covers religion. And you're into biology.
Biology is a whole nother ballgame. And you have these things,
these academic disciplines that are stacked on one another. You

(40:41):
don't have people that are we don't have scientists that
are are are that are able to talk about it
all together. In other words, we have to look at
it individually, and we look at it, you know, at
piecemeal and everything siloed. So and again you know, our brain,

(41:03):
you know, isn't really capable of doing it. I mean
our visual spectrum, our hearing spectrum very limited, right, it's
just limited as one certain area. Right, we can't see
outside of it. Some animals can see outside of it,
we know they can. And then our level of consciousness,
you know, we're at a level of self consciousness, but

(41:24):
how conscious are we? I mean, is our consciousness evolving?
Like our bodies are evolving and our bodies are evolving slowly,
but they're evolving. Well, do we need to reach a
state of cosmic consciousness before we were able to understand
part of this? Or do we have to transition and
by that I mean dying and moving into another state,

(41:48):
another form, another dimension. So you you know, everybody used
to think that UAP were extraterrestrial, but nowadays most people,
most upologists or people that study this, and those scientists
that study this will tell you, well, it's probably a
combination of extraterrestrial interdimensional and maybe a little bit of crypto,

(42:09):
you know, cryptoterrestrial ultraterrestrial where these these these Nhi are
living on our planet and have been living on our
planet with us, you know, we just haven't seen them.
And they have the ability of the cloak themselves.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
This Arabic uh, you know, concept of the gin. It's
always fascinated me, you know, because it's it's very close
to you know what you know, the Christian religion we
call angels, uh, you know, and although the pre Islamic
religions did have you know, angels and gin and stuff

(42:45):
like that, and they still kept them, you know, in
the Qoran. You can read whole surros about about gin.
But it's fascinating and you know, you you you see
all this and it's all out there, all this this
this knowledge, this is out there and it's it's it's
a theory and it's anomaloust but you can't put your
arms around it. It just can't. And it's hard. It's

(43:08):
just very very hard.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
We hear a lot about the negative effects of disclosure,
but if you really considered, I'm sure you have, but
the positive effects, you know, what do you think disclosure
would bring about?

Speaker 1 (43:21):
It?

Speaker 2 (43:21):
In terms of positive change in the world.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
Oh, that's an excellent question. And this goes back to
what I think Chris Mellen and lou Alasando talks about,
and Gary Nolan and a lot of these guys, and
they're absolutely correct about it. It will generate a whole
new series of academic disciplines. I mean, right off the bat,
if we came out and we told the scientific establishment

(43:46):
this is real, the National Science Foundation, you know, National
Institute to Health, every major university would start programs on
trying to figure out what this is. I mean, we
have this immense amount of research money and funding going
to discover what this is. And I think in some

(44:09):
respects that would you know, that may be able to
push us forward in so many different ways. It would
take I think, I think consciousness studies and particularly plus
I mean quantum mechanics studies. I mean, the money would
be pouring into that, and people would be very interested

(44:29):
in it, and it will also changed enormously changed religion
and our view of the world itself. People would be
questioning reality all the time. But I think it's going
to be a mixed bag, you know, it's I think
there's could be a ton of positive effects, the biggest
one being we get to know our real history, right,
we get to know who we really are. It's our

(44:50):
birthright to know what the truth is. And this is,
I think, is what you know, with a lot of
pro people who pro disclosure people are saying nobody's right
to you know, it's not the government's right to say
I'm not going to tell you this because you know,
we're afraid of what it might do. Sorry, but you know,

(45:11):
I'm a human being. I have a right to know
what kind of world I live in, you know, and
so for me and I know I'm sort of talking
out of both sides in my mouth here, but they're
the elements here. You know, it's problematic. This is a
highly problematic. So yeah, a lot of good things, maybe
some bad things, but you know, but then again, I mean,

(45:35):
the phenomenon itself isn't helping, is it. There's a group
of people who believe the reason why we don't have
disclosure is because the phenomena is actually controlling it. It's
basically saying no, you're not going to do that. And
but then again, disclosure, I mean you and I are
talking about this, right. Let mean, you know, it's real.

(45:59):
I know, it's real. I don't know whether you do
or not. I don't know that much about your beliefs
on this issue, but it's absolutely totally real. And if
you sit down and look at the evidence, and you
saw the evidence, talk to these pilots, you know, talk
to Dave, you know, Dave Forever, he saw these visually
solve them. He's not making this ship up, you know.
And and he's dead serious. And uh and and then

(46:22):
when you talk to other people who've had these experiences,
very very serious people, Oh my god, I mean it's yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
And that changed to you. Yeah, that changed my view.
Was initially David freverr to look into it, and it
was so compelling to me. And then just doing the channel,
you know, drawn into it. You know, I never wanted
to be like in investigating the UAPs or UFOs, but
I'm just so curious about it, and that I kept
talking to credible person after a credible person, you know,

(46:51):
why would this person lie? I just did an interview
with doctor Rogers, Doctor Greg Rogers, he was a massive
flight doc you know, for many years, and he saw
a video actually of a craft and a hangar with
US Air Force on it doing tests back in nineteen
ninety two, you know, and I just could not understand.
I cannot think of any reason why why he would

(47:13):
lie about that. Seeing that video, you know that the
US actually has craft.

Speaker 1 (47:18):
Yeah, the US has craft. Then the US you know,
don't forget stealth came out. What I mean, Stealth was
on the drawing boards in what seventies, and then it
really was out in the eighties, and and so you're
looking and saying, well, what's new? Oh hell, I mean,
you know, they have been experience experimenting with you know,
all kinds of different propulsion systems, very advanced systems, probably

(47:38):
anti gravity system So, you know, if you have a
downed craft and you don't understand the craft, you don't
understand the technology. So you're looking at the craft. You
can extrapolate a lot of things from that craft. You
can take some of the material from the craft and
look at it and study it and say, wow, okay,

(48:00):
you know, maybe we could do this, or maybe we
can do that, and that pushes science forward a little bit. Right,
you still may not understand the craft itself. I had
one person tell me, who's in a no, except, well,
the craft is actually basically alive. It's a lot living thing,
and that the the entities that drive the craft actually

(48:21):
become part of the craft. They're they're sort of robotic
in and of themselves, and then they merge with the craft.
And then that's how these things fly, so or they not.
I shouldn't even say fly. That's how they operate because
we don't know whether they're flying or not. And they
become they become these these entities like these orbs. You

(48:42):
see these orbs all over the place right and and
there's orbs have been around for forever, but now you're
saying many many more orbs showing up in different places.
I've seen orbs with faces in them. I've seen orbs
change colors. I've seen orbs well, I haven't seen this
particular type of war. But in or you know that

(49:02):
lands and then gets bigger and then something crawls out
of it. I mean, you and people that are telling
me this are telling me this in a classified setting,
and they're telling me this and they're not they're not lying.
They have no reason to lie to me. I'm not
in any position or authority, you know, And they're just

(49:25):
disturbed by this as I am. Disturbed by listening to it,
because what it does is it just tells you we
live in the strangest damn place. I mean, it's just
beyond strange. And we haven't even tapped into probably ninety percent.
Nobody knows what dark energy is. Nobody knows what dark

(49:46):
matter as we know it. We think we know it exists.
We don't know how. You know, most of the medicines
we take, we really don't know how that they work,
you know, you know, we we you know, if you
took an antity pressant and I don't, but if you
did take what I mean, the doctor sort of have
a general idea, you know, it's maybe a serotonin updack,
maybe it's this, maybe it's that, but not really sure

(50:07):
how that all that works, you know, but they know
it does. I mean, it does have an effect. So
we're sort of primitive, and we like to think we're not,
but we are. So I don't know if that answered
your question.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
Yeah, you've looked into it as well. And I hear this,
like Diana Posoka interviewed her. In her perspective, is that
it's from a religious angle. And then Jack vallet you
talk to him right from the beginning where he talks
about control systems. Can you or have you determined any

(50:40):
sort of motivation for the phenomenon? You know why it's here?
Is it directly related to us in some manner?

Speaker 1 (50:50):
Excellent question. You know what Diana says, Yeah, I believe that.
What Vallet says, Yeah, I believe That's what I was saying.
I don't disbelieve any of them, and and and I
think they all make these great, great points. What if
you looked at these lightmotifs that run through the phenomenon,

(51:12):
You know, it always comes down to, you know, these
beings are if they have any message at all, they're
saying it has to do with you know, nuclear energy
and climate change. Right, that seems to be the two
primary things, right, you know, don't screw up the planet
is essentially what they're saying, or they're not saying it,

(51:34):
but they're sort of showing you in a way. Right.
So you look at that and you go, okay, that
part of that you sort of get. But it's also
and it has a very strong disruptive quality, right, And
this is what Jock gets into as a control mechanism.
If you look at the early Greek mystery schools and
Roman mystery schools. You know, they would put people in

(51:55):
caves and you know, being there for three days without
food and water, and people would hallucinate, come out and
they come out, change people. And essentially what it would
be they would tap into something they normally would never
tap into in their normal daily quote Hittyan lives, right.
You know, they just you know, and all of a
sudden they may have a mystical experience and that come
out and they realize that the world is much broader

(52:18):
and deeper than they ever had before. And I think
this could be looked at as sort of an initiation, right,
something that's highly disruptive, and it's also has these sociological
effects because what happens when you see a UFO, what
happens when you have these experiences, It does change you.

(52:39):
And I don't think it's unusual as we progress that
this is becoming more of a topic of discussion and
that people are taking it seriously, and that we have
many many scientists now that are getting into this and
taking it very seriously and realize that it's actually this,

(52:59):
there's truth to this, and they're trying to get to
that truth. Only problem with all that is the truth
is so woo woo. So it's stock likes to talk about.
It is so absurd, absolutely absurd. I mean, you go
back to my experience. I mean, you know, there's no

(53:22):
rhyme or reason to it. It's it's that's why I
don't like to call it an abduction experience. And now
I'm sort of mad about it. It's like, you know,
screw you, you know what I mean, you throw this
crap at me and you lay it at my feet,
and then I'm supposed to figure this out. I don't
have a I don't have a guide book. You know.
When we're all I mean, we're all born on the
planet right with out of the instruction manual. I get that,

(53:45):
and then we create religions. We you know, we we
we create order because order gives us some type of stability,
and it distracts us from really looking at the void, right,
because there isn't anything else out there. I mean, when
you look at the meaning of life and you're trying
to figure that out, and because you're born and you
know you're going to die, right, you get to a
certain age and you go, you know, our life is,

(54:06):
you know, in between these two points. It's frightening, and
it's frightening to children, is frightening to everybody because you
don't know where you're going afterwards, you don't know where
the hell you came from, and then you throw this
UAP phenomenon in the middle of all this stuff. So
where do you take solace? You know, it takes Usually
you take solace in science and religion, right, But in

(54:28):
this particular case, science and religion has no answers. You know,
they may have, you know, guideposts and sort of saying, well,
maybe it's a little bit of this, or maybe it's
a little bit of that, but you're sort of left
on your own. If you're a serious thinker, I believe
you're sort of left on your own. And that's hard.
And that's another thing too. I mean, I have one

(54:50):
one fella, a dear friend of mine, scientist. We started
to the stars and he was invited. We had these
long conversations and he was very heavily involved in this
in the medical side, and and he looked at me
and he said, you know, disclosure means scaring seven year olds.

(55:17):
Now you have children, I mean, what the hell do
you tell them? I had a psychologist friend of mine
at the agency asked me if I would speak to
her teenage daughter because her daughter was fascinated with the
UAP and UFOs. And I said no. And I said,
I said, because if she asked me a good fourteen

(55:38):
year old question, and fourteen year olds are pretty smart.
And I said, I'm not going to lie to her.
I'm going to tell her. You know, this is not
you know, this is not e T putting his figure
to your head and going out. I said, this is
a hell of a lot different. And it's not just
like the you know, the end of Close Encounters to
the Third kind where spaceship lands and you know, we're

(56:01):
flashing signals at it, and all of a sudden, these
cute little white beings, translucent white beings come out, you know,
with big smiles in your face, and they all look
like Casper the ghost. No, that's not what it is.
These things are not you know. I was talking to
Jacques and I said, I said, what the hell is it?
I said, are they are they bad? They good? And

(56:22):
it goes The best you can say is they're classically indifferent.
They're not. They don't give a damn one way or
the other. And I think that's exactly the truth. I
don't think they're good. I don't think they're bad. I
just think I think we're well. As Charles Fort said,
I think I think they view us as property, and

(56:45):
I think we have to take that into consideration. And
that's another reason about disclosure. So you want to tell
somebody that you want to I have this list of things,
you know what I know about UAP, and none of
it is good. I mean it's it's it's good. It's
good in a sense that wow, you know, there's a
whole different reality opens up. But it's not good in

(57:07):
the sense that this is a an intelligence that does
act as a control mechanism and does control. It can
control us, it can dictate to us. It doesn't seem
to be doing that, you know, on a daily basis
and affecting people's lives, but it can do that. And

(57:28):
when you give up that that sovereignty right, that idea
that free will, you no longer have free will. And
then you have an eight year old who is petrified,
doesn't want to go to bed at night because he's
afraid the beings are going to come into his room.
And I know people who's who've had that happened to
their children, you know, and they don't rack well to that.

(57:50):
So what do you do? What do you do with that?
I don't know. I don't know. It's it's it's it's
a situation. I think that thankfully, in some respects, you know,
it goes unnoticed by the majority of the population. It
just does not impinge on their lives. I live in

(58:11):
this really nice little community up in Delaware, you know,
and you know it's a very small town, thirty five
hundred people. And you know, I can count on my
hand the number of people that are interested in this,
and then it would take me forever to count the
number of people that would whose eyes would glaze over
it if I ever engaged him in conversation on this,
because you know, there's no there there, right, I can't

(58:34):
sit there and I can tell them these stories, these
narratives like you know, and I could say, well, this
is real and this is I know because I've seen this,
you know, I can't tell you his classified Like when
Dave Grush came out. Gush didn't come out with papers, right,
he didn't come out with any documentation. He came out
with is saying what he said, and it was all accurate,
in my opinion, all accurate. And he says this and

(58:59):
people look at him, and some people try to you know,
you know, like lou Elisondo was the same way. He
got so much crap for doing what he did, but
he's not lying. I was there, I was with him
in the Pentagon. Saw the same thing. But he saw
a lot more than I did. But later on I
saw more. But anyway, he saw this stuff. I saw
some of this stuff. He showed me some of this stuff.

(59:20):
We talked about it. People aren't lying. It wasn't just him,
those other people too, and you know, top of the
line scientists telling you this too. Please, you know. You know,
so when these skeptics come out and you know, and
start pushing these their own narratives about oh it's this,

(59:41):
and oh it's that, and you know, this is some
sort of a problem in software packages and say, yeah,
it's it's such horseshit. You know, I just I don't
engage him anymore. I used to engage him. I don't
bother with it anymore, you know, I know what I know.
And I think they have a role to play. Keep
everybody honest, you know, and I I do that, you know,

(01:00:02):
and I see that, but I don't personally engage with
them anymore because I don't. I'm not here to defend
what I believe. You know, you give to take it
with a grain of salt, or you believe it or
you're not believe it. I don't care. It doesn't affect
my life anymore. It used to, It doesn't anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
What do you think about like the idea Ronald Reagan said,
you know, the famous quote if there's an extraterrestrial or
outside threat. Not that this is necessarily a threat, like
you said, they seem indifferent, But what do you think
of that idea that it could you know, unify the
world or maybe unify humanity so we could move forward
and stop all these crazy wars, et cetera.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
Well, I think there's there's definitely an element of truth
to that, maybe more more truth than not. Again into
three body problem. You know, I did a simultaneous podcast,
I think during the fourth episode, and I was talking
about how intelligence services came together when they knew this

(01:01:04):
threat was coming and how they worked together and you know,
and what what how that would happen and what it
would mean and so yeah, I mean, there's no question
I think that people would would basically, I think the people,
I think populations in general would force governments to work
together for the common good. But again, uh, you know,

(01:01:26):
we're humans, right, and there will be every government will
be looking towards an advantage that they can have with
another government, won't do the Russians know about this? Yeah,
the Russians have their own program. They used to be
called Thread three. Uh we know that. And you know
studying UFOs, do they have crash sausage? Most most likely

(01:01:47):
they do, most likely to Chinese do too, So they
have their own programs. Everybody says France has, Italy has
their own pregens. A lot of countries have their own programs, Brazil.
The problem is they're all trying to figure out what
everybody else has. So that's where the national security aspect
comes in with this. This is another reason why we're
lou you know, took a lot of crap when he

(01:02:08):
came out and and and so did my company to
the Stars, because we were saying, like, wait a minute,
you know, disclosure is fine, but we do have some
national security aspects here. This this program, this current program,
this legacy program, the deep program, and I mean it's
it's you know, you know, the security around it is obscene.
Is it's not going to be They're not going to

(01:02:29):
discuss it. They can't because they don't want if you
tell your friend tell an enemy, right, you can't come
out and talk about what you know and what you
don't know. So they leave that alone. And uh, and
the government leaves that alone because if you, by happenstance,
discover a technology that could control the airspace and space

(01:02:53):
in general and everything else, well you you own the world,
right And and somebody was saying to me not too
long ago, well you know, look at all these wonderful
technologies that could come out free energy. You can go
on and on and talk about all these new technologies.
Well yeah, that's great, But what happens, I said, what

(01:03:13):
happens when you have a technology that makes uh, you know,
energy symmetrical that everybody has it. Well, what's the first
thing a country's going to do. We're human, We're going
to targ a weapon system out of it. Now we
all have the same weapon system. You know, nobody has
an advantage. You know, everybody has you know, the same advantage.

(01:03:34):
Now because you're able to develop these these craft that
you know, anti gravity craft. You could put weapon systems
on it, and all the time. There's a lot to
think about about this, and I think that's another one
of the reasons why the government is very careful about this,
and they careful about the technology that they may have discovered.
I don't know if they have or have not, but yeah,

(01:03:55):
I mean, you know, it's not a simple h problem set.
I mean, it's it's it's a difficult problem set. And
if it wasn't for the fact that humans are humans,
I mean, it's just we have a nasty side to us.
We just do. And you know, you can talk to
Tick not Han, and you know, and the Dalai Lama

(01:04:16):
will tell you the same thing. You know, you know,
you know, you look at a person like you know,
I hate to use Hitler, but Stalin's a perfect example. Uh,
you know, Joe McCarthy, all these people. I mean, I
put them on the same levels or anything like that,
but nevertheless, they have a nasty side and and you know,

(01:04:37):
and so I don't trust you know, humans with it.
I trust the government, I really do to a certain extent.
I mean, they they've lied, they've done things that they
shouldn't have done. You know, even my agency, you know,
with you know, with the programs back in the sixties
and seventies were way way over the top and just awful.
But in the end, you know, they get they get

(01:05:00):
rightened out and and you know, and and the people
force them to basically maintain you know, order and keep
in mind the public good. So I think government in
general have a lot of faith in government. I don't Yeah, go.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Ahead, sorry. Have you talked to John Ramirez at all?
He's the other Yeah, what do you think of his
his story where he's invited to a meeting essentially and
with high level members as well. You know, there's no
classification markings and they say that, Uh, I believe we're
hybrids or some some relation to that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
Yeah, John told me that story. I I, uh, I
can't get into any of the details around And John
and I spoke privately about that, and there's a well
I was put I believe I believe what he said.
There's no reason for John too, you know, particularly talking

(01:05:59):
with me, you know, I mean, it's there's no reason
for either of us to shade anything with one another.
And uh so, yeah, yeah, yeah, what he said. I
think what he said is accurate. That happens. I mean,
even you have some of them. That's really highly see. Well,

(01:06:19):
I can't get into too much detail because where John worked,
how John came across this makes sense to me. And
what his story was to me made sense to me.
It fits the pattern. It's like what Dave Grus you know, said, Yeah, yeah,
that fits the pattern. I mean it, it makes total
sense to me. But I can't tell you why.

Speaker 2 (01:06:41):
Okay, And we talked about a lot of negative consequences
of disclosure as well as you know, potential positive. How
do you think we should move forward? You know, what
do you think I should do as a podcaster? And
what are you working on?

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
Well? For you as a podcasters, you know, continue to
do what you're doing. And as many voices as we
can get on this topic, the better. It's going to
be many. Plus. I do my own podcasts with my
company to the Stars, you know, with you know, I
just did one with Tom DeLong and Peter Lavenda, and
I'll be doing another one hopefully soon, maybe with how
put Off and somebody else down the road. I prefer

(01:07:21):
doing that as opposed to being on a podcast because
I get to ask the questions. But but I think
it's really really important for podcasters to keep doing this
and to look at not just UAP, to go into
other areas it related, these these corollary areas. It's like
this wonderful book that just came out, The Illustrated Guide

(01:07:42):
to d MT Entities. Oh, I mean that's to me.
I mean, I bought the book. I bought the kindle
version of the book. I can't wait to read it.
I'm going to start today. And it's it's looking at
other realities. And that's the other thing you want look at. Uh,
you want to maybe get into mysticism and the idea

(01:08:04):
of a classical versions of mississists, the lives of the saints.
What does certain saints see. I'm reading a book now
called They Flew, you know, about saints who actually levitated
and they had you know, hundreds of witnesses who saw
them flying. You know what I mean. So okay to me,
that's that's all part of this. John Alexander likes to

(01:08:25):
point out he said, you know, he had a slide
once he showed me, and he had all these different
aspects of you know, psychic phenomena all together, you know,
with UAP and NHI, are they connected? Are is this
phenomena connected to near death experiences? To life between life,

(01:08:46):
between life and death? I mean this this whole topic.
Michael Newton, psychologist who wrote a bunch of books, you know, Journey,
Journey of the Souls and things along those lines about
what happens when you die and and you know you
can go to these soul groups that won't have you
the whole concept of reincarnation. How does this all fit in?
I don't know, and and and but it's all part

(01:09:08):
of it. And so it's it's a much much grander,
uh subject area that we give it credit for. You know,
it's not just nuts and bolts, and it's not just
quantum mechanics. It's this whole other thing that's out there
and it's all connected in some form or fashion. That

(01:09:29):
to me is fascinating and I think podcasters need to
do more of that, is open this up more, and
also get scientists on too. You know, we need what
William James called a radical empiricism. Right, we don't have
that now. We have this box, right, and science looks
at the box, and God forbid if they don't understand
something because they end up trivially on it, trivializes it,

(01:09:52):
you know, and it's and it's really not science, right.
A true science is going to look at something they
don't understand and say, I got to figure that out, right,
and I got to figure what the hell is going
on there? Not make fun of it. Look what we're doing,
at least I'm doing with to the Stars with Tom
DeLong and our other board members, and we're focusing on education.

(01:10:16):
We tried very early on we had a business model.
We have a public benefit corporation, so about a ten
percent of our profits usually goes to public benefit and
we do do that, right, so, but we were going
to use some of that money to pursue research, you know,
into the phenomenon in general. Well, we had a very

(01:10:40):
big surprise during the pandemic when some of our big
investors everything dried up and we were relying on small investors.
Small investors just don't have the money. And we developed
these couple relational databases and they're really cool, using some
you know, forms of AI and and we were going

(01:11:01):
to use those to do a lot of research in
the farm, to research out the universities things along those lines,
but it just the cloud. Using the cloud, it was
so expensive. It was just like millions of dollars a
year to do that. We just didn't have the money
as a company. So we decided to restructure the company
a few years ago and turned it into an entertainment
company in the hopes that we'll get more We'll get

(01:11:22):
more money in that money will then go back into
the research, So we haven't given up on that at all.
We're going to be doing that, but the entertainment part
is where we're telling stories and pushing narratives because we
have access to people who know this real story, and

(01:11:42):
what we're trying to do is tell the little story.
We sold the rights, not the rights to, but the
movie rights to, or the television rights of Secret Machines,
our first trilogy, the fiction version to Legendary Pictures. We
just we probably have a dozen projects we've sold and

(01:12:03):
there were various stages of development. We're very excited about
all of them. Hopefully this year we'll start saying more
about them. Tom did Manchos to California movie he directed,
which is great, that's just coming out now in the
streaming services. So we're trying to educate essentially on people
and that level. But hopefully we'll get into the research too.
Now the road.

Speaker 2 (01:12:24):
Yeah, I get a lot of comments or when I
have people on, like doctor Rogers. He had written a
book back in ninety five actually, and well as soon
as he came out last month, his publisher pulled the book. Actually,
he went to Contact in the Desert talked about it,
actually came out with his story, and then his publisher
pulled the book. But I'll get comments saying, oh, it's

(01:12:46):
another person trying to sell a book or another person
trying to cash in on the UFO podcast circuit. And
I'm just I'm saying, where is the money, you know,
where's all this cash flowing in? It seems like that's
one of the biggest issues is you know, it's not
mainstream enough really to generate any sort of real cast
to really funnel a full industry.

Speaker 1 (01:13:07):
No, you're absolutely right, And people who say things like
that that is mean spirited. It really truly is. I mean,
I in the beginning, there was some really extraordinary narratives
that came out and some very odd books that came out,
and you know, I used to discount them. I don't

(01:13:28):
do that anymore weird with the capital W has taken
on a whole new meeting in my life. I just
you can't. You can't tell me anything that's too weird.
You can't tell me anything that I wouldn't say. Well,

(01:13:49):
that's fascinating. I don't know if I believe it completely,
but I'm not going to discount it. And I don't
do that anymore. One of them. This is the topic
of Bill abs military abductions. I have a friend of mine,
Melinda Leslie's this wonderful person who had a terrible experience
and you know, with that, and she told me her story,
and you know, you can't listen to her without saying,

(01:14:11):
you know this, This person is not lying to me.
And I don't think she's imagining things either, But I
don't know how to explain her predicament. And she's not
the only one. And then there are other other ones
that come up too. Now there are some you know, like, well,
I was taken when I was seven years old and
trained as a pilot, you know, in the Air Force training.
You know, it was kind of stuff. Well, that's again,

(01:14:33):
I don't discount it. But at the same time, I just,
you know, I don't give it a lot of credence.

Speaker 2 (01:14:38):
But and you must have been proud from your to
the Stars academy, right, I mean that seems like it
really broke the story wide open, at least from from
my perspective.

Speaker 1 (01:14:51):
Yeah, it did to a certain extent. And I'm very
very proud of that. And you know, I'm very proud
that Tom Tom DeLong took it to the w he did.
When I first met him, I I you know, I
met him really to find out whether or not there
was a leak of classified material because some of the
things he was saying and some of the things you

(01:15:12):
know that were written written down, you know, they were
pretty close to some of the things that you know
were very accurate. So when I met Tom in twenty sixteen,
I had a very long dinner with him, and Wow,
I was really taken aback. He's quite a quite a

(01:15:35):
guy and born leader, you know, really really smart on
this topic, knows knows it cold and but he has
a very h he's very imaginative and he has a
very open mind towards everything. So and he had all
these advisors, these government advisors, and they were the real deal.
I found out who three of them were only through

(01:15:57):
Podesta leaks, you know, the email leaks. We found out
who some of them were. I guess two of them,
but he wouldn't tell me whether that was true or not.
But I know they're true. But the other ones I
don't know, and he doesn't talk about her to tell him,
but I know they're real. So we were talking to
him about that, and anyway, that's when we started the company.
It was the next day we had lunch together. It
was me and Tom and I think Jock was there

(01:16:21):
and Hal put Off and I think another person who
doesn't want to be named, so I won't name them.
And we decided at that point, at least Hal and
I decided what Tom, we were going to create this company,
and then off we went. And then when then we
were able to get Steve Justice from the Skunk Works

(01:16:42):
to come on board. And then later Chris Mellen. I
went to see Lou at the Pentagon and he told
me he was going to retire about I couldn't believe it.
I said, the hell are you doing. You're a very
senior guy here. I said, you know, why are you retiring?
You're young, you got kids going to college. And he
said I just can't get anywhere with this. He said, no,
one's taken me seriously, and he said, just needs to

(01:17:02):
be out there. So he quit and then we hired him,
you know at that point, and then and then brought
on a board, uh you know, advisory board, some really
good people. So yeah, we were very proud of that,
and we hope sometime in the future that we'll be
able to become much more active, uh in the community,

(01:17:23):
more so than we are now. Now we get you
hat organization. It's like the Soul Foundation, you know, great, great,
they're just doing wonderful things and very I know most
of the people there that run it, and they're just
really top of the line, Gary Nolan, Peter sk Skafish
and a couple of the others, and it's it's scientifically focused.

(01:17:45):
It's exactly what we need.

Speaker 2 (01:17:49):
What's your take then, on Jake Barber, you know, I
was really excited when when he came out and I
thought that would move the needle, and it just seems
like it hasn't been received well as whole Skywatcher program.

Speaker 1 (01:18:03):
Well, yeah, I mean, I you know, I don't discount
Jay at all. I don't know Jake, I don't know
him at all, and when he described what he was doing,
perfect sense to me. I know, yeah, I mean I
know of that type of work. So yeah, he's he's
he's the real deal, no question about it. I didn't.

(01:18:26):
I think why I didn't. The skywatcher thing, I think
is very important, and I don't. I'm not sure whether this.
I think they call it psionics or something like that,
where somebody's sitting down and they get a remote viewer
and try to make contact. H I think there's there's
something to be said about that. I don't know whether

(01:18:46):
that's going to really manifest into anything. It's like the
people to go out, I know, Stephen Greer has these
things where you go out and you watch you know,
and you try to make connections. Usually they're orbs, you'll
see them. Chris Blutzoe does this also. My My feeling
has always been, UH, be very careful about contacting something

(01:19:10):
you don't know, you don't know anything about. Uh. A
good friend of mine, Keith Thompson, has just written a
new book. But he was telling me that, you know,
the uh ah, I'd like to plug it because it's
really really good. He wrote Angels and Aliens and oh

(01:19:33):
it's called the UFO Paradox.

Speaker 2 (01:19:36):
Okay, So the UFO Paradox by Keith Thompson.

Speaker 1 (01:19:39):
Yeah, yeah, he might be somebody you'd want to have
on your podcast. He is really, really smart. He's one
of the best I think, commentators and thinkers on this
particular area. I met him at Esslon a few years
ago where we had a h Jeff Kreipel put together
and let's Kane put together a group of people experiencers

(01:20:03):
and we all sat around and chatted, you know. And
another great guy there was Whitley Strieber, who's written two
fantastic books. One's called Them, which I really loved, probably
one of the best analyzes I've read of the phenomenon,
and then his latest one is Them, which no, the
fourth mind, I'm sorry, it's just absolutely wonderful, wonderful book.

(01:20:24):
He's one of the better thinkers I think on this
particular topic. Him, Jeff Kreipel, Shock, obviously, Diana They, Leslie Kane,
and Jenny Jacobson. Those are the people. My favorite book,
one of my favorite books is called I must have
read this thing three times and I'm going to start
reading it again. It's called Dimonic Reality. By Patrick Harper.

(01:20:48):
It's not an easy read, all right. He's an academic,
went to Cambridge, britt I think he read English there.
But anyway, fascinating book on the topic, one of the
better ones I've read too. So there's so much good
literature out there now. And I'm just going through chocolal
A Forbidden Science journals, you know, those personal journals, and

(01:21:11):
I had never read them, and I just finished sixth
Forbidden Science six Now I went back and I'm going
starting at one and going to go go up and
absolutely fascinating about some of the problems associated with studying
this phenomenon and the problems associated with it, financial, social,
just dealing with the people you know, you know, and

(01:21:33):
how everybody has different viewpoints and what have you, and
how that affects, uh, you know, which way research goes.
It's great, it's it's just wonderful.

Speaker 2 (01:21:45):
So so I guess, finally, after all your years investigating
your personal experiences, what do you think it means to
be human? What have you learned over over your experience?

Speaker 1 (01:21:59):
Wow? The as it's a wonderful question. In the end,
I always go back to and I don't know whether
this is apocryphal, or not, but I think it was
Elvis Uxley. It was on his deathbed, you know, wrote
The Doors of Perception, and somebody asked him a similar

(01:22:21):
question and he just said, uh, you know, what can
you tell me? You know, I think it was just
one of his relatives and what can you tell us?
Base on everything you know? And he just looked up
and he said, be kind. And I have to say
I steal that when people ask me questions like this,
what's it all about? What life is about? What does

(01:22:43):
it mean? And the answer is I don't know, but
I do know deep down, what I personally truly feel
is that to be a successful human being two, to
say that your life had any kind of meaning in

(01:23:03):
it at all, is really trying to gear your life
towards being kind and compassionate to other people, animals and
everything around, every living thing around you. If you possibly
can do that. Kindness and compassion understanding is obviously a
part of it, and you know, just trying to take

(01:23:23):
the high road as much as you possibly can. I
think love is probably at the end of it all,
some kind of universal love or pattern of love. I
don't know. That's the only thing I can tell you
that I try to live by. I mean I fail
every day, I mean, I really do, but I try

(01:23:46):
to do that. It is try to try to be
as nice as I possibly can to people. You know,
I'm not always always that way. Some people try to
take advantage of you, and you know, and you you know,
you maybe use sooner sluff them off because you can't
really you can't really engage everybody. You know. I have
people that send me emails and texts and you know,

(01:24:09):
they want you know, they have terrible issues. You know,
I've been I've been being attacked by you know things
at night, and you know, and I've had these terrible
experiences my whole life. What do I do? What do
I do? And the answer is I don't have any
answers for you. I can give you understanding and you know,
and refer you maybe to move on, or refer you
to maybe a website that you know that helps people,

(01:24:34):
or you know, tell you you might want to get
help from a you know, psychotherapist that could you know,
maybe specializes in this issue. But a lot of times
I just don't have time to answer everything you know
that people send me. But I certainly have sympathy for
them because some of these people are really suffer. And
and that's the other aspect of this that I think

(01:24:57):
disclosure touches on is giving validation to the people who
who had these experiences that are bothered by them. I mean,
my experience bothers me, but not to the point it
altered my life in any way. You know, this may
be more interested in the topic, but other than that,
I mean, you know, I'm one of these. I grew

(01:25:17):
up rough. I mean, I mean, I don't I just assume,
you know, go face to face with something, you know,
particularly if I know what it is. Of course, I
don't know what this is. I'm not really saying I
want to go face to face with this because I
you know, my get is crushed. So and the intelligence
business is funny. When you when you want to do
an operation, let's say, and you want to you know,

(01:25:40):
break into someplace, or you want to steal something, or
you want to do something crazy, you generally you want
to have at least an eighty eighty five percent chance
of getting it done right. And then you have to
look and you spend you know, days, months, weeks, sometimes
years looking at points of failure. Where can I fail
in this operation and you try to plug those holes

(01:26:02):
and knowing full well that there's gonna be ones you
don't see you or you don't anticipate, but you want
to walk into a situation where you at least know
that you have a good shot of coming out of
it one piece or without it blowing up in your face.
When you're dealing with this phenomenon, you don't have that.
You don't even have a I don't have a five
percent you know, you know, confidence in knowing what this is.

(01:26:29):
I don't know what I'm going up against. There's a
trickster element to it. There's a deceitful element to it.
We know that they could basically control you, and some
we have no defenses against this. Do anything that seemed
to work, and this is mostly with Poulter Guy's activities.
It's basically telling the thing, just go away, don't bother
me anymore. Sometimes that works, you know. I've had people

(01:26:53):
that just didn't you know, it either diminished or it
went away completely, you know, And then sometimes it doesn't work.
But rarely it doesn't work. But most of the time
it will work. But it's just but I always say,
don't give it energy. Just just talk to it in
a nice way, don't piss it off, just tell it
any nice way. Just look, I don't need this in
my life, you know, please go away. But when you're

(01:27:15):
when you have orbs flying through your house and you know,
banging into your kids, and you know, and you know,
upsetting your your wife and all this kind of stuff,
I don't have that. But I have friends of mine
to have that whole different ballgame or you go to
Skinwalker Ranch, you know, a whole different ballgame, hitchhiker effect.
I know people that have had that, they come home
with it. I've had people that got involved in this,

(01:27:37):
like you in particularly you, like you know, you're former
military guy, you're involved in this, you talk with it.
I mean, sometimes this stuff is contagious and sometimes you know,
you get it yourself and and you know, and it
affects your family. So yeah, I'm off on a different topic. Sorry. Yeah, No, I.

Speaker 2 (01:27:59):
Truly enjoyed this discussion, Jim. You know, I've had a
lot of anger in the past towards the government agencies
CIA was particular, and really when I found out about it,
or I saw enough evidence to lead me to that
realization that it is real and that it most likely

(01:28:23):
probably definitely. Our government has known about it for many decades,
and I was really angry about that. And I think
you've changed at least some part of that perspective, I
think for the positive, just in this discussion, and I'm
really yeah, I'm happy to have that, to have more
understanding on why we've been lied to for so long.

Speaker 1 (01:28:45):
Yeah, well, you know, it's funny, thank you for saying that,
but that's not saying you know, I don't agree with
what the government did in the very beginning, but the
government was in a you know, imagine yourself in that position.
Back in the forties. You have a very primitive country.

(01:29:05):
I mean, we were basically still a grarian for all
intents and purposes. Telecommunication systems were awful, They're very primitive.
You were worried about the Soviet Union, who had basically
wanted to take over the world, and they had the
ability to create all these propaganda machines. So you were
really on the defensive and so you were saying, how
do we keep this quiet? And that's what they did.

(01:29:26):
The problem with that was, you know, it just cascaded
and into you know, into the sixties and in the fifties, sixties,
and seventies, and a lot of people were hurt by it,
and that was bad. And I think their intentions were good.
But you know, the road to hell, right, you know,
paved with good intentions. But I know, I know the

(01:29:49):
people that are in I know some of the people
that are involved in this. These are good people. They're
not bad people. They don't They're not a cabal, you know,
you know, and people always say, well, they're not a
Well that's nonsense. I mean, you know, CIA director is
not elected. I mean, there are a lot of people
that aren't elected in the government. You know, you can't
elect everybody. But what you do do is, you know,

(01:30:12):
the president, and this is an executive program. The president decides.
You know how this works. The president gets decide, you know,
who he nominates to run a particular agency, and then
that person then runs a particular program and that roof
persons responsible to the president. But as always said, fourteen

(01:30:33):
presidents hasn't said a damn word about this beyond yeah,
you know, like Obama came out and you know, Reagan
made that comment. I think Reagan was briefed. I think
Obama was I think a lot of them in the
latter days were briefed, but you know, but they were
only brief to a certain extent. There's I like the

(01:30:55):
point of his two kinds of briefings, right, there's a
there's a briefing where somebody sits down with you and saying, look,
mister President, there are other you know, entities that are
out there and and we have doutcraft and they've been
here for quite a long time. And this is where
this sits. You know, you know, these are the companies

(01:31:18):
that are working with this. This is the government organizations
that are running this. And this is generally speaking what
we know, maybe a half an hour briefing, forty five
minute briefing. They will not get into the specifics. I've
had briefings like that where particularly in bigoted programs, highly
bigoted programs or waivered special access programs, they're going to

(01:31:40):
give you the initial briefing where they tell you journally
what this is. Then they say to me, they used
to say, do you want to get into the second
part of it? And then it's a whole different ballgame.
Then we have to sign you up to this. You
have to sign away your life for that, and I
used to say yes, that I stopped saying yes. No,
I don't want to know anymore, don't care, right, you know,
I don't need to know to particularly, And I think
that's what's happening with a lot of the presidents because

(01:32:02):
they can't tell them anything beyond what they've just told them.
But they're not going to get into the details. It's
like when you know, CIA goes to when the FBI
goes to Hipsy and Sissy, you know, the Senate select
Committee and the House Permanent Selectivity, and they talk to
them about their programs. Well, they tell them about the programs,
but they don't start telling him like whoo, who the

(01:32:22):
who the spies are? And you know, and and the
intricate details they just don't And in Hipsy and Sissy
aren't interested in that anyway. They just want to know,
are you spending your money our money wisely A and
B are you're not breaking any loss? That's all they
want to know, and you know, and just so they
have a pretty good idea and it's but it's worked
out really really well. So the government I think has

(01:32:44):
told somebody in the Gang of Eight over the years.
I think Congress is known about this. But the president
has enormous powers, and these are in president presidential executive
action documents that give him the power to do these
kind of programs with out notifying Congress because he thinks
it's in the best interests of the country not to

(01:33:06):
He doesn't have to note by Congress. I think he
does sometimes, okay, but that's legal. That's what the presidential
power is. Then Congress gave him that power. So that's
the other part of it. I mean, you know, people
blame the CIA or NSA or DoD for not talking
about this. This is a program that doesn't belong to them.

(01:33:26):
This is the program that belongs to the President of
the United States. He determines what gets said, not CIA.
It said you know this old saw where oh, it's
how the CIA help overthrow the government of Iran. CI helped,
you know, some Iranians overthrow the government of Iran in
the seventies. But it wasn't a CIA program. It was

(01:33:49):
a presidential program. CIA takes its orders from the President
and National Security accounts. Everything do O D does, CIA
and every government agency comes from lawmakers, doesn't from them.
They don't make this stuff up and go out on
their own and do it on their own. It just
doesn't happen that way. They take the crap for it, right, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:34:09):
What about plausible deniability? You know that's a well known CIA.
Do you think they could keep it out of his
you know, not brief him. Kind of what lou al
Zonda was frustrated by is that they were not briefing, uh,
the chief, not the not the president, but they weren't
briefing joint chiefs of staff.

Speaker 1 (01:34:30):
Yeah, well again, uh, the joint chiefs of staff. There's
a need to know. What do you need to know?
I mean, government agencies are very very covetous of their information.
Getting CIA to share information with the FBI, and it
was just terrible. It was they didn't trust each other.

(01:34:52):
FBI wouldn't share. We didn't share same with d O D.
You know, you if you're a spy and you you recruit,
say a Russian or a Chinese and he's absolutely the
best buy you've ever had, There's absolutely no way in
hell you're going to tell the FBI who this Chinese
guy is, a Russian guy is, or d O D
or anybody else. The information you get from them may

(01:35:13):
go to the FBI and it may go to D
O D, but it'll be it'll be covered in the
sense that they'll never be able to guess who this
person was. And you want to do that because you
want to protect your sources. But that also gives you
access to the president right that you have and you
only have. So there's a lot of that crap going
on and what have you. But also it's again it

(01:35:34):
goes down to need to know what does it does
a joint I mean, does the Chairman of the Joint
Chiefs of Staff need to know that we have information
on you know, UAP and you know he's kind of
craft Well, I would make the case, yeah he should know,
particularly if they're interfering in operations, right, just like they

(01:35:57):
did in World War Two at the food fighters, you know,
and all the things that happened, you know, and these
nuclear strike groups, carrist Right groups and pilots seeing all
this kind of stuff. And I'm sure I'm sure some
of them have been when they've asked, have been told
about it that yeah, we have this under control, or

(01:36:18):
we don't have it under control, or yeah it's real,
but we don't know what it is. And they left
it at that. So I think that has been done.
And like I said, I think there are members of
Congress who do know about this. Maybe one or two,
maybe some maybe two or three in the Gang of
Eight have probably known about this over the years for
one reason or another. President doesn't have to tell them that. Uh.

(01:36:41):
And you know, and any conversations between say, for instance,
the CIA and the president. Congress can't know about you know,
they can't they can't petition to know about it, they
can't see to get it. That's privileged information that happens
between the executive branch and the and the and the
entity that works for him, which CIA is. It works

(01:37:02):
solely for the executive branch, nobody else and the National
Security Council. So that's who they owe their allegiance to.
So as Dave Grush said to me privately, but also
he said this publicly, said he said, disclosure. It comes
from the President. He gets it. He knows this is.
It has to come from the President, can't come from

(01:37:23):
any place else. So and that's essentially what this is about.
And I think, but believe me, nobody wants no government
agency wants this topic. Nobody, nobody does. It is a
royal pain in the ass because you don't know what
the hell to do with it. You just don't know

(01:37:43):
what to do with it. It's up, it has cost money,
it hasn't given you anything. It just accept problems, right,
and you have to manage these problems constantly. Right.

Speaker 2 (01:37:55):
So what, So, what is your top CIA story? I
guess just changing tracks here just for the last little bit.
What you know, if you're writing a book, what would
be your top story that you would share or that
you tell to your friends when they ask about your
CIA adventures.

Speaker 1 (01:38:16):
Well, first of all, I would never write a book,
although there was some wonderful books on the CEE I
written some friends of mine, I've written them there. They're
wonderful and they're really really good. I'm not that guy.
I just can't do it. And as far as some
of the best times I've ever had in the agency, honestly,
they're all classified and they were just I just wish

(01:38:37):
some of this stuff could come out because some of
it it's just so cool. This is so cool. And
it's not just the clandestine service either. It's a science
and technology address, you know, the analytical side. There's so
much there's so much brain power there. You just can't
get over how much brain power that's there. You know,
I told somebody once, I said, you know, you could

(01:38:58):
be in a meeting, and you know, you know, I
graduated from Ohio State, I a public you know, I
got a master's degree in English literature, right with poetry, right,
So yeah, But the guy sitting next to me, you know, Harvard,
Harvard PhD. In Medieval French literature. The woman across you know,
mba from Harvard, you know, and she speaks Japanese. The

(01:39:18):
guy down there, you know, is as a former attorney,
you know, and they're all top of the line because
they hire in the ninety four percentile. Right, So everybody's
the smartest guy in the room there, the smartest woman
in the room. And that's that's amazing because you know,
you you you sit there and and then you get

(01:39:39):
the guy from East Missouri State University who basically had
a three point zero, but he's the most street smart
guy you've ever met in your life, right, has the
most common sense. And they're all together in a room
and and you know, planning something or doing something or
talking about something, and nobody mentions politics. There is no politic.

(01:39:59):
That's one of the things in the agency I was
always surprised about. I never had a political discussion in
that place in thirty four years that I worked there, never,
not once. Didn't know what anybody's background was, didn't know
what their religion was unless they volunteered it. This never discussed.
That's not happening anymore, sadly, I think. But that's the

(01:40:21):
thing I liked about it, and that some of these
things that we were able to do the public will
never know about, and it really probably shouldn't know about
because other people were involved who they don't want their
names out there, you know, and other countries might have
helped and things along those lines. But they're worth their money,
let's put it that way. But I can't. But some

(01:40:41):
of the operations I can't get into. I'll be an
audious most of them. I can't get it. Everything I
did was classified. So yeah, but I had a lot
of fun, best damn career ever. Yeah, they're hiring now.
So if you're yeah, they're hiring now, so you you know,
I just got an email from them the other day
saying we're hiring. You know, So have your your listeners

(01:41:02):
if anybody is listening, you know, if you have a
college degree, and you don't belong to a subversive organization,
and for God's sake, don't smoke marijuana for at least
a year before you apply. And you haven't stolen anything
or committed of felony. You should be you should be
right up right up there.

Speaker 2 (01:41:19):
Okay, Well I do feel better actually after talking with you,
I'm uh yeah, I just feel prouder of being an American.
And thanks for your service and for for your and
for your interest in this topic and for promoting it
and for to the Star's Academy. I think it made
a huge, a huge splash and really opened this topic up.
So and thanks for coming on the show.

Speaker 1 (01:41:38):
So hey, my pleasure. I appreciate it. Thanks for having
me excellent.

Speaker 2 (01:41:43):
Thank you, Jim.

Speaker 1 (01:41:44):
Okay, bye bye.

Speaker 2 (01:41:46):
That really was one of the most enlightening conversations I've
had on this channel. I mean, Jim just gave us
some masterclass in understanding the real complexity behind the UAP phenomenon,
not just the nuts and bolts, but he also talked
about the consciousness aspects, the national security implications, and why
even those the highest clearances are struggling to make sense

(01:42:08):
of it all. You know, why hasn't the government come
out in eighty plus years. Turns out they have no
clue what it is, and there's no real benefits to
at least that they can see to coming out, and
a whole lot of negatives after they gained it. So
what struck me the most was Jim's honesty. I mean,
he's seventy five, He's someone who's been there inside the
system for thirty four years. He's seen the classified evidence,

(01:42:31):
he knows the people in the legacy programs, and he's
just telling us straight up, we don't know what it is.
So that is both terrifying and oddly reassuring. It seemed
to fill a lot of the gaps for me. So
I came into this conversation with some anger. I don't
know if you've seen a few of my older videos
about this government secrecy. I really felt like I'd been betrayed.

(01:42:53):
After serving the military and the government for so many
years defending the constitution, I really felt kind of betrayed
by this. But you know, I'm leaving this conversation with
a deeper appreciation for just how impossible this problem is,
or at least appears to be to the government. The

(01:43:13):
National security apparatus. So, as Jim called it, this is
the wickedest problem humanity faces. So if this conversation impacted
you like it did me, please share it. These are
the kind of discussions I think we need to be having,
not about whether the phenomenon is real, but about what
it means for our species and how we move forward,

(01:43:34):
how we can best help disclosure. You know, catastrophic disclosure
seems like it could be really bad on a lot
of levels. As Jim went through there, it could really
affect our civilization. And if this is real, as I
think a lot of people out there watching this know
because they've seen it firsthand. If it is real and
it looks that way, it seems very at least possible

(01:43:56):
at this point, then there are some serious repercussions. And
so how best can we prepare for this? And I
think Jim gave some good advice there. So Jim's advice
from Aldus Huxley was above all else, be kind, So
be kind of that like button, It really helps the
channel and subscribe. I have a great video coming up

(01:44:17):
with Felipo Biondi and Trevor Grossi. Right, Felipo's The Scientist
who invented sara toomography and saw below the Pyramids. We
had an amazing discussion and I should be talking to
Jesse Michaels as well. So subscribe and you'll get notifications
or hopefully it comes up on your feet if I'm
not being censored. Otherwise, you can just go to my
channel and you'll find those videos so coming soon. Please

(01:44:39):
check out our sister channel, UAP Society, Ali and Justin
do weekly news shows. You can go there to get
your weekly UAP news fix. They do a great job,
and if you want to support the channel, I really
appreciate it. You can become a patron member like these
fine people, as well as a YouTube member. Any of
that really helps, and just watching really is a great

(01:45:01):
help as well. So thanks for all your guys support.
It's not an easy job, but it is meaningful. So
have a great rest of your day. Peace,

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CIA Officer UAP Encounter: What Jim Semivan Revealed About the Government 80-Year Secret

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