Jesse Michels Reveals What Silicon Valley Really Knows About UAPs

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Look, if we've had reverse engineering, like for example, Ross
Coulthard came out and said, the tic tac is ours.
You know, it's it's human. I've seen no evidence for that.
I have no idea. If that's the case, then yeah,
like of course you're gonna see, you know, venture capitalists.
The dirty little secret of the UFO world or whatever

(00:21):
is like everybody does have this sort of autobiographical personal
quest that they're on and they've experienced sort of magical
things in their own life. He brought Dave to my
house in LA two years before he came out or something.

(00:42):
You know, he even said, like what I was doing
was like, you know four D or five D hologram
porting itself into four D spacetime. They've treated David Grush
like like shit. You know, they've treated Jake Barber like
like shit. The people who they'll go on this like

(01:03):
quest around the UFO thing and and then they're they're
like they just come back to like sort of you
know God or Jesus or you know Moses, you know,
whatever whatever it is for them.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
My dog, and I assume a lot of dogs, has
no idea what a leash is. Like, it just it
can't put this idea into its head right that if
the leash goes around a pole, there is nothing he
can't move. You know, he's going to be trapped. It's
the leash doesn't exist in his world.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
That's what I worry about. I think. For if you're
like in the the you know, spooky intel world, it's
like it's just easy to like mind control like whole
swaps of people. It's like it's pretty fucked up.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
Chris Lado, Welcome to Lado Files. I'm thrilled to be
joined by Jesse Michaels. He's the insightful host of American Alchemy,
and he's been pushing the conversation forward on UAPs with
some of the most compelling interviews from David Grush's historic
whistleblower testimony, the Harold Malcolm's explosive claims, Jake Barber's crash

(02:16):
retrieval stories, and revelations from military insiders including Green Berets.
Jesse's work is helping to reshape public understanding of the phenomenon,
so today we'll dive into what he's learned, what it
might mean, and where this is all heading. Thank you

(02:43):
so much for being here, Jesse how are you doing today?

Speaker 1 (02:46):
Thanks for having me, Chris. I appreciate you man. I'm
a fan of your show and I'm doing well and
ready to get into it.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yeah, thanks so much for connecting. I'm really starked for
this interview. You've spotlighted Silicon Valley's growing interest in UAPs,
so you're well connected. I hear that all the time
with figures like Peter Thiel. Do you think Silicon Valley
is interested in this phenomenon? Is that where email Truss
comes from.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
I think there's an increase in curiosity on the part
of Silicon Valley. I don't think they're that interested though.
I think that's more of it, like an Internet conspiracy
that they are. They're very you know, Silicon Valley is
very like, what what can this do for me near term?
And is any of this investable? Is their mindset? And
I think with UAP UFO sort of stuff, you know,

(03:35):
there are people who I'm going to interview, this woman
named Anna Brady Estevez who comes from the National Science Foundation,
and I think she's going to do a private fund
around you know, UAP and that's really cool, but I
personally haven't seen like you know, that's My background is
venture capital, and like I still occasionally I still help

(03:56):
with like the startups that I've invested in, prosaic startups
that I've nothing to do with UAP obviously. You know,
if there were something that were like extremely compelling, that
were UAP related, that was investable, like I think it
would be on my radar, especially given out deep im
on the you know, on the media side, meeting all
these people and stuff, and I just I haven't seen much,

(04:18):
to be totally frank with you. I see things that
are really exciting from a you know, fundamental science like
can we push humanity forward you know perspective? Right, Like
can you can you prove out you know, the Byfield
Brown effect, or can you prove out you know, you
know some meta material that like you know, is is
fabricated on an atomic level, which like humans can't do,

(04:41):
or like you know, extended electrodynamics. Can you create sort
of a sensor for like you know, electromagnetic waves that
propagate at one over R not one over R squared.
They don't attenuate over space time, you know, the same way.
There are all these things that are like very exciting,
extremely out there frontier r you know, a novel effects, right,

(05:02):
the Casmir effect, things like that, can you keep that
stable for a long period of time. But like the
delta between that and like a company that's functional is
extremely extremely wide, right, Like Neil's board didn't bound a
semiconductor company. He was working on quantum theory. So like,

(05:23):
from my perspective, you know, it's I think it's easy
because you know, most of people who are in UFO's
UAPs are like inherently irreverent. They're conspiratorial, like I think,
in sometimes a very healthy way, and so they view
the Silicon Valley thing as like, oh, they're going to
like you know, immediately like take over the space and
invest and you know whatever. And look, if we've had

(05:45):
reverse engineering, like for example, Ross Coulthart came out and said,
the tic tac is ours, you know, it's it's human.
I've seen no evidence for that. I have no idea.
If that's the case, then yeah, like of course you're
going to see you know, venture capitalists, you know, chomping
at the bit. But but that stuff just feels handwavy
to me. I haven't. I have no reason to believe

(06:07):
we have like super workable you know, ARVs, you know,
alien reproduction vehicles or what I mean like that. So
we'd be basing that off of like three different anecdotes,
and the anecdotes actually seem, you know, somewhat compelling in
the case of Mark McCandlish and Bob Bazaar and stuff.
But I think that, you know, you need you need

(06:28):
more than that two to get Silicon Valley interested. So
I've it's I find myself kind of in between you know,
people in UFO space who are like convinced that they're like,
you know, extremely interested in encroaching, and then I'll meet
with Silicon Valley people and I'll try to get them
interested because I think it would be great if we
saw more investment in the space, more high agency people

(06:51):
who like build companies like interested. I mean, I think
that would just be a net good for everybody. And
like usually I get, you know, kind of cynicism and
like who cares back on the Silicon Valley side.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
So, yeah, what's the third example? You mentioned McAndlish and Lazare.
What do you think is the third example of possible
ARV tech.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
Of ARVs you have like Edgar Fouchet, you know, the
TR three b TR three a you know, spinning mercury.
You know, I think he was actually was he associated
with E, G and G. I'm not sure, but he Yeah,
he came out saying sort of you know that those

(07:35):
were like alien derived, you know technology. You have Michael
Herrera saying that, you know, in Indonesia, you know, and
his his thing, you know, his testimony obviously dovetails of
Jake Barber in many ways. But you know, in Indonesia,
you know, after Operation Kaitsana, his his marine unit was
sort of detoured moved to Indonesia. They basically h saw

(08:00):
like this vanta black like blacker than black craft that
was hovering over the tree tops. It was three hundred
feet in diameter, and it was like this octagonal like that.
He calls it an eight gone because it wasn't. I
guess there are some differences between an octagon and eight gone.
It was like this fractalized you know, sort of like

(08:21):
like it was like an octagon on top, then another octagon,
then another octagon. It was like moving, it was like concave.
And he thinks that that might have been human tech,
but derived from sort of you know, exotic alien stuff.
So there's stories like that, but then you have to
ask the question, you know, would it be smarter advantageous

(08:44):
from a tech protection standpoint to like call human tech
alien or something, and like it probably would. So like
the burden of proof on somebody saying that an exotic
craft looks you know, it is derived from alien tech,
it is obviously on the person saying that. Now I
have every reason to believe Michael Herrera saw what he saw.

(09:04):
I think he's a very honest, credible person. I'm increasingly
becoming high conviction that Bob Blazar was at S four
Area fifty one. Mark mccanleish seemed pretty earnest and sincere
and had credentials as an aerospace illustrator that well transcended
just you know, his discussion of the you know, Norton
Air Force Base sighting from Brad Sorenson. So yeah, I

(09:29):
think there's like you have to slap some probability on
the existence of alien reproduction vehicles. But man, I mean
the you know, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence has to
apply there, right, Like you have to have some pretty
high threshold for you know, something that will really take
you over the edge.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah, I interviewed Mike Herrera on the channel and he
mentioned the Octagon, and I was really impressed because then
Jake Barber came out, and I mean, your interview with
Jake Barbara, I thought was amazing. And then the community
just went nuts because Logan Paul was there for some
reason and that that somehow blew it out of the water,
even though it was amazing testimony. But then that's when

(10:14):
I think Jake Barber said the the Octagon or the
eight Gone. Jake Barbara called it the eight Gone, which
then weirdly vibed with Mike Herrera about the Octagon shape craft.
That's what I remember.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that was fascinating to see.
Their testimony is kind of dovetail and Michael Herrera's the
reason I started to build trust in the Jake testimony
in some ways was you know, meeting him and sucking
him out, but also Mike Herrera's testimony from the Disclosure Project,

(10:52):
you know congress that Stephen Greer had had in twenty
twenty three. That story was always like the weirdest story.
I remember that story sort of seared in my memory
because I was like, what, like, you went to Indonesia
and you saw this bizarre human trafficking thing and this
you know craft above the tree top like, and you
were apprehended by human probably former special forces with advanced technology.

(11:16):
Like it just felt if you were writing a script,
this would be the last story you would write, like
it was too weird. And then Jake Barber comes out
and he starts talking about you know, psionic assets, and
I'm I was higher conviction in parapsychology before any of
the alien stuff, so like that made so much sense

(11:37):
intuitively to me. Actually, I think for a lot of people,
especially in that first Ross Shorter edit, I think a
lot of people were like, wait, you're telling me I
have to stomach parapsychology and psionic assets. You know, the
fact that you retrieved a craft like all these things
all at once like this, this is a little too much.
I'm drinking from a fire hose. But to me, it
like pattern matched more than somebody who would just you know,

(12:00):
just pure nuts and bolts, Like you know, I was
like working on this thing like like any other sort
of aircraft. So yeah, I found that to be a
kind of a fast, fascinating, kind of one two one
two punch of things. In Herrera, when you speak to him,
you get a very like irreverent, like you know, kind

(12:21):
of like just as you know, gonna gonna tell it
like it is vibe and uh, and he's pretty he's
pretty kind of iconoclastic, and he'll like go at people
if he like thinks they're lying and stuff. So you know, again,
like you know, unless you have experienced something yourself, you
can't know one hundred percent. Everybody can be sort of tricks.
But uh, you know, I put a lot of weight

(12:41):
in both of those testimonies. And yeah, the logan Paul thing, man,
it's like it's tough, it's uh, it's uh, you know,
he showed up. He like asked a question that I
thought was pretty good and that he you know, said that,
you know, like I'd love for my order to grow
up in a post disclosure world. And like, you know,

(13:03):
I don't know, you say what you will about him.
You know, I know there have been scandals in his
life in the past. I think anybody who's grown up
with that much fame and attention at that young of
an age, I'm sure has had similar experiences. And he
seems relatively actually well adjusted to me given that, But
I'm not here to defend, you know, any any of
that sort of stuff. He's just been He's been nothing
but cool to me. The point was like, you know,

(13:28):
when we met Jake, we facetimed him or you know,
like you know, it was on a you know, it
was pretty secure platform that that wasn't FaceTime, but but
it was like a de facto FaceTime, if you will.
And Logan was on the call, and Jake moves the
camera over and his son is so excited to meet Logan,

(13:51):
and you know, apparently Jake was like, yeah, they're prime
bottles all over you know his and so like that
felt like this same chronistic, very kind of meant to
be thing, and uh so I thought, you know, it
was really cool Logan. Logan's a busy guy. You know,
he's like doing a lot of crazy, crazy stuff with
his life, and I think he's genuinely into this topic.

(14:14):
Like he took the time to watch my interview with Rogan,
which you know and then comment, you know, like texted
me about it afterwards and stuff. So I have nothing
but good things to say about the guy. And he
took took time out of his day to do this,
and uh and and lend you know, his platform to
this whole thing, and it was just absurd how little

(14:36):
people cared about the substance and how much people kind
of indexed on on logan. I think people see what
they want to see. And you know, you asked a
question about Peter Teal up top, and that's you know,
I think it's a valid thing for anybody to you know,
inquire into. But I worked at the guy's family office
and I invested with him, and he doesn't give a

(14:59):
shit about you, Like he really like like you know,
at times he's like, you know, expressed like kind of
an intellectual curiosity, maybe in so far as it dovetails
with some interesting kind of metaphysical or like biblical themes
or things like that. Things like he's he's exploring more,
I think at this point in his life. But the
like you know, reverse engineering, you know stuff. You know

(15:22):
that from that perspective, like he just doesn't care at
least in his you know, in my sort of colms
with him. So I don't know, like in some on
some level, you know it it'd be cool if he
sort of cared more. But you know, most of the
UFO related stuff that you know, I've I've I've surfaced

(15:42):
like years ago, I've stopped stopped surfacing stuff around that
he's passed on and said, you know, I'm just not
interested in all. Ninety nine percent of our conversations are
around again, prosaic technology companies. That was my job to
invest in with him, and you know, then you know,
it's like occasionally, like at the end of our conversations

(16:05):
he's like, what's going on with the crazy UFO stuff
or whatever? But that's it, Like it's not I don't know.
And then if you can look, you can go on
my YouTube channel. The first show is with Jake Paul
and then the eleventh show was with Gary I think
I'm making these numbers up. Maybe then it was the
first eight shows, I don't know, ten shows, eleven shows whatever,
They're all like really low views. Nobody watched them. And

(16:28):
then the first show that blew up was with Gary Nolan,
and so like, not only like does it make sense
from an algorithm perspective if you're like trying to make
a show work, that would be cynical if that were
the only motivation, But I felt like it was an
expression of my genuine interest that made that show work

(16:50):
along with the fact that a Stanford professor claiming he
had UFO parts with isotope ratios that didn't you know,
pattern match to asteroids or like anything prosaic like, so
like that was what happened with the show. Of course,
you know, you're trying to build an audience and then
you're trying to do the thing that's most authentic to you.
And you know, I love startup investing, but I don't

(17:11):
think people care about that. I think people really care
about like nature of reality, who are we as humans, metaphysics,
those sorts of things. So it organically kind of moved
in that direction, and to be quite honest with you,
I kind of want to broaden out again because I'm
I'm a little sick of the insolarity and kind of
you know, circular reporting and an absurd community infighting of

(17:35):
UFO world. It's just kind of kind of kind of nuts.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
But oh what I haven't noticed, Yeah crazy, Yeah, it's
easy to get burned out. For sure. I feel the same.
And since then, I because I remember when your videos
came out. I may have even watched some of your
videos before Gary Nolan, I don't know, but I definitely
remember American out and you would you would make like

(18:02):
a video every few months and it would just kill it,
you know, and I was just like grinding every day
and I was like, how does he do it? You know,
like I should just make one ideel like you did
every few months.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
Yeah. Well that it's funny. That's been the trajectory is like,
you know, initially it was like it was not my
full time thing, and I just really enjoyed it and
I'd put a lot of love into it and it
was like a side thing, and you know, I loved
like just releasing things irregularly, but like dropping kind of
bombs when they came out. And then more recently, you know,

(18:35):
I don't get like I don't I don't get paid
at all for the venture capital stuff, you know anymore.
So that that was like a deal that that expired
or whatever, and it's become my like full time thing.
So I like, I really, uh you know, am am
working hard to like be be consistent, and uh, it's great.
It's it's a lot of fun and I'm definitely super

(18:58):
passionate about it. It's forced me to think about it.
You know. It's like a very you know, real business
with the p and l and that sort of thing.
But with that you do also lose at times the
you know, like, oh, I would just do it when
I was struck by inspiration and that, you know, that's
that's obviously a good place to be if you can,
if you can sort of do that.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, I completely know know how you feel, completely because
it's also your The problem with doing your passion as
a job is then it turns out you're doing your
passion as a job, and so it comes out to
be the job kind of can ruin the passion or
stamp on it. It's difficult to stay motivated, especially when
you get audience captured, you know, because you look like Rogan.

(19:41):
He can do podcasts on whatever the hell he wants,
you know, whatever he's interested in. He can talk about that.
People are like, oh that makes sense. But as soon
as I make a video that's not about UFOs man
I gets so many negative comments like what are you doing?
No one flicks on it. Yeah, it's amazing audience capture.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
It's crazy. I did one on like I've had Matt
pines on, who's like a brilliant like analyst when it
comes to the UFO stuff, and he was talking because
he knows a lot about AI and bitcoin. He brought it.
We talked about bitcoin, and bitcoin is not like me
launching a meme coin. It's like a really interesting, intellectually

(20:19):
interesting thing. And like that, all the comments were like,
now you're chilling crypto and it's like, what are you
talking about? Like this thing is almost at the market
cap of gold, and it's like a digital currency that
involves like you know, really novel cryptographic means. It's a
mystery as to who the founder is. Like it's totally
adjacent to the UAP thing. It's like this novel for

(20:42):
you know, you know, sovereign stateless version of money. You know,
it should it should actually be very in line with
somebody who's interested in UAP. And you know, I just
got like, you know, creamed in the in the comments,
just completely like you know, destroyed, and it's like I'm
interested in that stuff, Like I'm not you know, I'm

(21:03):
not just your UFO monkey.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
Like yeah, yeah, we do have other interests and passions.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
Yeah, we're like people, and I.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
Imagined and I think long term that's probably the best
way to do it, is to just go with passions
and somehow make it work at least. That's what I'm
finding is, Yeah, I'm going to do what I'm interested in.
But if it's not exciting, this topic and job is
really difficult, you know, it's not that easy.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
No, you have to totally. I think. I think you
have to follow your pure curiosity and you have to
eat the bad views, bad comments. When you're like initially
starting to broaden out, you probably have to do it
somewhat strategically and broaden out in concentric circles. So it's
like things that are adjacent to the thing you're covering,

(21:55):
maybe some you know, ancient archaeology that's like slightly alternative,
or you know, uh, you know the remote viewing stuff
and consciousness and you know secret physics or whatever. But
I don't know. Man, Yeah, I think you ultimately you
just have to follow what you what you care about.

(22:15):
I was talking to my my girlfriend last night and
I was like, what if I just put like music
playlists up on the on the channel, Like would people
be really angry or would they think it's like kind
of cool and like disrupting the pattern? You know, it's tough.
It's also like you want to do justice too. You've
broken like these very real, incredible whistleblowers and like I
don't want to obviously self stigmatize or anything, but it's

(22:40):
also like, I don't know, it's it's a it's a
very tough spot to be in, you know, covering the
thing we're covering because you need to. You're you're gonna
be a grifter unless you incrementally, you know, uncover more
every single show and you lead to what what's the
logical conclusion of that? You have to be at area

(23:02):
fifty one, like unveiling a saucer and a hanger, and
if you're not, then you've failed. So yeah, you're a grifter. Right,
So it's like like you it's like more stories, more stories,
Like what are you talking about? We're talking about like
the most like locked down technology like in you know,
the United States government history, Like what do you what

(23:23):
do you want to do? What can I do? What
do you want? Like? So, you know, I think there's
a threshold past which you get enough of these whistleblowers
saying all the same things. You can't explain that away
from mass psychosis and you know, all sorts of you know,
it's it's Alkham's razors that there actually is that they're there,
but yeah, it's a it's a tough spot to be in.

(23:45):
It's a tough spot for them too. I often feel,
you know, after they do go public, they get treated
like shit, like the people treat They've treated David Grush
like like shit. You know, they've treated Jake Barber like
like shit. You know, they it's it's a it's it's
it's it's bad, and they display a lot of courage

(24:06):
for coming out. Yeah, go for it.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
Or I was just curious where you think that comes from.
Do you think it's like actual people in the military
industrial complex, you know, they're doing this to discredit them,
or do you think it's just the people have been
so programmed against this or they've been burned so many
times in the past. Why do you think people come
out with such negative energy against these whistleblowers.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
Well, I think it's it's often the people who are
deify them that flip and they're like the most against them.
So there's definitely this archetype of person for example, that
like started avidly following like Lou Elizondo and then Lou
you know, put out a couple of things that got
debunked since or like you know, said a couple of

(24:50):
things that weren't right or whatever, and those same people
are now like hate they hate him, Yeah, And I
think the like healthy thing to do is like just
feel like, yeah, that's like a guy who's like, you know,
to data point. You take you know, the stuff with
you know, somewhat of a grain of grain of salt,
but like, you know, it's all good. Like if he

(25:11):
gets certain things wrong, like it's okay, and then the
things he does say you never took just fully at
face value, like you don't take don't take anything for
granted or at face value. And then you're not flipping
in this weird direction. You maintain you know, uh, the
ability to look through his stuff in like this kind

(25:32):
of even handed way. And I find that there's this
like archetype of person that like they'll deify these whistleblowers
and then they'll they'll flip on the you know, in
the opposite direction. And then I think on the whistleblower side,
I think the thing that they have to look out
for is being sort of like softened and like brought
back into the fold, and like you know, it's like, oh,

(25:53):
you're not getting any love on the you know, Congress
isn't giving you any love, they're not giving you any protection.
The executive branch doesn't give a shit. And then you
know you're getting these like spooky legacy guys like reaching
back out being like, you know, thank you for doing
what you're doing, like there's a place for you on
the inside or whatever. I'm sure that happens a lot.
And so like if you're then you're caught between some

(26:15):
like weird like old money cult from like Huntsville, Alabama,
you know that, like they swear some weird like you know,
blood oats to each other, and like you know, they're
they're into some you know, interesting spooky stuff. You're caught
between them and the like the like idiot like civilian Congress.

(26:37):
And I I don't say that it's not a joke,
Like they're they're really like a lot of them are
really dumb. They're really I wish they weren't, you know.
And it always makes me when I speak to like
people like you know, Carl Nell, who I really like,
but he's like very adamant about the you know, UAP
disclosure app Like I think it's really important insofar as

(26:58):
you know, we can get proof that these things and
we get like a panel that can you know, maybe
maybe start to distribute these things and talk about the
implications of distributing you know, this information in a more
systematic way like that that would definitely be an improvement.
So I'm extremely pro UAPDA. But at the same time,
I like, you know, I've been to you know, these
hearings a couple of times, and I'm like, this is

(27:20):
a joke. Like these people are like they almost don't
even deserve or want like you know, what they're asking
for in some weird way. You know, they just sort
of care about getting re elected. So if you're a whistleblower,
like you're taught between these like you know, this like
this spooky world that like knows a lot and is
like really interesting, and you know they're treating you kind

(27:42):
of nicely, and then you know this like you know,
these civilian representatives who probably aren't you know, they don't
know their ass from their forehead, and like that's that's
a really tough spot to be, right, And then like
these people in public who are like you said a
thing and but you didn't prove it, and you didn't
you know, you didn't follow up on it or whatever.
You're not saying more, and in your mind you're like, well,
I just tried to do this in the right way

(28:04):
and push the executive branch in the right direction. I'm
not you know, trying to be at Snowden or whatever.
So you know, that's a really tough spot to be in.
And then yeah, constantly being sort of gas lit, and
you know, I'm sure people trying to you know, for
information constantly, and you know that's that's that's I I uh,
I me, you know, my heart goes out to them.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yeah, you've really met a lot of these people just
firsthand and spent you know, hours with them in person.
Like David Crush. I had one question on the discord
is uh, you know, how did you how did you
meet David Grush? How did you get that interview? I
guess Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
I was actually diligencing a company and the company had
sort of like the guy had left Space Force and
started this company and it was a company in aerospace
and this was in my again my day job, like
just like it best with Peter, and I was diligencing it.

(29:02):
And at the end of the diligence period, Uh, I
was like dude, you're in Space Force, Like, do you
you you must know a thing about UF two UFOs.
And this is at the period where I was like,
do you think they're real? Like like what's up? And
he goes, yeah, I think they're very real. He was like, honestly,
I'm not like an expert on this stuff. But I
had this guy that I served in the Air Force
with like a long time ago, who I've kept in

(29:25):
touch with socially, and he knows a lot about this
stuff and he's like looking into it right now and
you should probably meet him. He has like my Yeah,
So he brought Dave to my house in La like
I want to say, like a year and a half
before he came out or two years before he came

(29:46):
out or something, and uh yeah, just uh honestly, it
was it was a refreshing experience for me because at
the time I was like this in my mind, I
was like, this is you know, really quacky and crazy,
but like if it's real, you know, it's like the
most important thing ever. And I had like some decent

(30:09):
knowledge on it, but I just I do you know,
I don't know. I thought it was kind of a joke.

Speaker 2 (30:14):
I thought it.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
I didn't really know like how to you know, treat
the entire subject. And he just pattern matched to this
guy who was like, you know, like if I said
a thing that like wasn't you know, you know, something
that he you know, believed in or whatever, like he
would he would sort of call me out on it.
And he was very first principles and like extremely smart,

(30:36):
like scientifically, like you know, he has like a you know,
cyber background, but as you know, yeah, he's bursed in
like software, but also like understands like astrophysics and physics.
You know, I think he just has a bachelor's in physics,
but like he's smarter than your average physics bachelor's guy,
and like no, really understands like space in the space
economy and worked in all these kind of you know,

(31:00):
prosaically very important you know context in the government. You know,
he handled the presidential Daily brief and stuff. So and
clearly was I think like a you know, top performing
guy at the National Geospacial Agency, like only you know,
all his colleagues only had good things to say about
this guy again and like these conventional roles. So that

(31:20):
was a revelation. I was like, this is this is crazy,
like this has this has to add to my conviction. Yeah,
so yeah, that was the That was the story.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
Do you think your your background in you know, diligencing
companies helps you in investigating on the phenomena.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yeah for sure, because that like, yeah, definitely, you know
it's it's I think, you know, I studied history and
college and then partially his is the least amount of
credits and I you know, hated school, but it was
also because I had a natural talent for it. And like,
so the two things I think that like helped me
in this field. Or like I have like create a

(32:00):
pretty good recall, Like I just remember a lot of ship.

Speaker 2 (32:04):
Yeah, your recall is amazing, dude. Yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (32:08):
Appreciate it. That's the only compliment I'll take, and that
a lot of other stuff, but but yeah, I do,
I have good recall. And then, uh, the diligence thing
is really important too, like the ability to suss that
basically like in venture capital, well, you can't be a
domain expert in everything. So if you are diligencing, uh,

(32:30):
you know a company in a specific area, more likely
than not you weren't coming from that area, and you're
you have to take some certain things as priors, certain
things that face value. Obviously you need to stress tests
as much as possible, so you can't you cannot assume anything,
but at a certain point of probability, you have to say,
the risk reward makes sense, and I'm going to invest

(32:53):
in this company. And so it basically like the number
one skill I think in venture capital outside of you know,
the follow up investigation of what the person says and
trying to corroborate it is like, is the person as
the purveyor of information full of shit? Like very few
people are doing really first principles analysis on everything being

(33:14):
told to them. I think, you know, people somebody's like
lying if they're saying they are, like you know, it
is ultimately a bet. It's a probabilistic sort of you know,
gamble or whatever. So I think that that that skill, really,
you know, this is the ability to like sus people
out and like you know, tell if they're lying to you.

(33:36):
And then where it's tricky and UFO space is like
somebody could have an ulterior motive but also be telling
the truth about the core details of what they experienced,
and so like that's like a it's it's kind of
like a form of lying, but it's not lying, right,
It's not like you're not lying on the surface level details,
but like there's a reason you're coming out and maybe
you're doing some controlled opposition thing or you're like, you know,

(34:00):
you're spinning like the details that like matter in a
way that like throws people off or whatever. Like they're
all these different tactics, right that you can do where
you're like not telling a lie on the substance like
say the iceberg is the substance below the water, you're
not telling a lie in any of that, and then
the top like five or ten percent, you're like spinning

(34:23):
in a way that like, you know, kind of misframes
the thing. Like there are all these things like that
that you have to be like extremely hyper vigilant and
aware of. And I'll be the first to say that
I've definitely fallen prey too, Like I can guarantee you
now that I've gotten stuff wrong. I've been tricked. I
don't think you really can be in this field and
not have said that. So it's like the best thing

(34:44):
to do is just off your free off yourself, and
then just to say that you're the only thing you
can guarantee is that you're being like earnest in your
readouts of things and assessing things and and sort of
move forward.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
Yeah, that seems like the most important thing for my
limited understanding of venture capital, which I assume is going
for startups is the founder, right, is the founder and
his team? You know, do they have integrity and can
they accomplish the mission? So it seems like that would
be perfect for actually trying to suss out any Is
this the idea of limited hangouts? I noticed you mentioned

(35:20):
that on on Rogan a few times. Is that what
you mean really by that?

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Yeah, And they say a certain amount of stuff in
a way that you know it could do. It could
serve a bunch of different purposes. It could like soften
the blow if there is an eventual leak, because there
is an eventual leak, then somebody else is setting themselves

(35:47):
up to be the authority on that thing. But you
were like, no, I said that like a year before
or whatever, and then you sort of like, you know, yeah,
so's you could do like controlled opposition with it. You
can do like recruiting with it, where you let out
certain surface level details and you know, people get initiated,
you know, based on those surface like that there's like

(36:08):
Cicada three three oh one or whatever this like you
know these like complex like math problems that were like
in puzzles online, and people think that the CIA and
NSA were associated with the puzzles. So if like you
have the aptitude to figure out these puzzles, which I
think required some like math abilities in certain cases, like,
then like you deserve to be part of the agency
or something. So like some of the UFO stuff could

(36:30):
be you know things like that where it's like we're
gonna give you like a slightly adjacent you know to
the truth thing. Let's see if you can get to
the truth through the adjacent thing, and if you can,
then like we're gonna hire you or whatever. So I
think a lot of that goes on in UFO world.
And then the other thing that the other way in

(36:52):
which it works if you're intel is like you can
track the falsities because you can put unique falsities in it.
And so it's like die that you're putting into a
pipes and you see where the dye goes, so you
can track like it's like you can see like who
the spies are and the bad actors are. And then
the final thing is you know, you can say people
react the wrong way and the thing was ninety percent

(37:16):
true but ten percent false. You can then just retract
it and be like, oh, but this ten percent thing
is false, and then so you like completely destroy the
field or whatever. It's this crazy thing. It's like a
rorshock test, like if you want to try out whether
it makes sense to disclose or not, that's what you
would do. And then the final thing that you can do.

(37:40):
I'm blinging on the final thing. What's the final thing?
There's like there's so many ways in which like it's
like an adaptive mode of communication and that like a
good example is I just looked into the Aztec crash
and like you can Wikipedia and it says as tech
crash hoax. Like it's crazy, and you know, everybody you
know this this like UFO. This guy claims to have

(38:04):
like thirty years of UFO research and he just dms
me on Twitter and he's like, you know, the ast
crashes a hoax, and and he's just so sure and
he keeps repeating it. It's like it's a hoax. It's a
hoax to hoax and I'm I'm responding with, like, I
actually think the Bill Steinman book is pretty good, and
I think that you know, Scott and Suzanne Ramsey has
found I've found a lot, and like you know, I

(38:25):
go into Silas Newton and all that, you know the stuff,
and like a man, I'm just like not getting any
like first principles like responses in the back. So it's
so easy, I think, for if you're like in the
the you know, spooky Intel world, it's like it's just
easy to like mind control like whole swaths of people.
It's like it's pretty fucked up and like that, you know,

(38:48):
that was just one example where yeah, very few people
are like looking into things kind of first principles. I mean,
you saw it with the pandemic too, or like I
think I wrote I have this in writing like that,
I was. I was saying that, you know, the lab
leak theory was a thing in March of twenty twenty,
and it was. Honestly, I can't take full credit for
it because I was around people who were, you know,

(39:09):
smarter than me on some of this stuff. But like
you you just think probabilistically right, you have like a
you know, a lab that's studying you know, sars like viruses,
and then you have this like you know, this modification
essentially of SARS that like binds to the you know
ACE two protein you know with you know, sorry, the

(39:31):
ACE two receptor with the spike protein or whatever. And
then you know, you get this outbreak like right there,
like you know, it's obviously that, and then they have
bad safety marks, like it's that, you know, it's obviously
that the markets all around China. Why is it popping
up right next to that? You know? But like very
people I think can declutter their mind and do that,

(39:51):
you know. That's that's like, especially when you're being like
most people are very consensus thinkers, you know, and it's
you're really like you get caught up in he's like
kind of you know, mass hysteria sessions. So like, yeah,
I think that that takes place even in in UFO
world too.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
Yeah. And then I mean didn't he didn't we find
out like literally that it was a lablik? Isn't that true?
I Mean it's almost like you can't even like think
about it in your head, like was it a lablak?
I don't know, but I'm pretty sure it was right.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
I mean now now, yes, that's a great name because
now it's it's literally uh, you know, even I think
the CIA has come out and said, like we think
that this was a lablik. There's an you know, an
Eco Health Alliance proposal to DARPA, uh saying you know,
or I think it was as a proposal to DARPA
saying you know, we want to you know, build a

(40:46):
version of stars that binds to a human as two receptors.
You can find this online, you can google it, and
then an aa N I H through Fauci basically re
routes it to China, which is America's greatest adversary. I
think some like yeah, it's like, you know, you're in
World War two and like you're you know, building some

(41:07):
like you know, chemical weapons thing in Japan or Germany
or something like makes no sense, it's absurd. So yeah, no,
that's all. That's all totally factual. Now. But like my
point is, you didn't even need you just needed like
basic Bayesian probability, like basic good inference, thinking like that

(41:27):
like a twelve year old should be able to do,
which is you have wet markets all over China and
then you have this one lab studying this thing that
deals with you know, sars like pandemics or whatever, and
they're they're testing you know, there's a there's a contract
with them around you know, allowing it to buy into
human as two receptors. Like obviously it's that. That's it's

(41:50):
just and the outbreak a curse, you know, seven miles
away is like the first case or whatever. It's not
this fucking pangolin bullshit. And like Alina Chan and Matt
Ridley wrote this book called Viral and they went into
all the first principal stuff about you know, literally if
you look at the genetics of you know that the
genome of COVID, like it was obviously synthetic, it was
obviously man made. So you just go you can go

(42:13):
on and on and on, but all you need is
that high level thing. I mean. John Stewart encapsulated this
best in his joke on the Colbert Report. He goes,
there's a Hershey chocolate outbreak. There's a chocolate outbreak in Hershey, Pennsylvania.
I wonder where it is and he goes the outbreak.
You know, the pandemic was cured by science, and it
was started by science, and you see Colbert, I'm sure

(42:35):
because he's sponsored by Pfizer or whatever, you know, starting
to like want to cut to commercials prematurely. So so yeah, no,
I think that's been totally totally vindicated. But it just
it's the good thinking that they sort of are the
bad thinking, rather that mass media, mainstream media sort of

(42:55):
arbitraged against and and you know, kind of pushing their narrative.
It wasn't anything to do with first principles, facts or
analysis or whatever, you know. And it's really it's really
easy to shame people into thinking. You know, It's like
people are like, you know, like like everybody knows that.

(43:16):
You know, it's it's a hoax. Everybody knows this. Everybody
you know, you just repeat it over and over again,
and you know, you know, it's like UFOs are fake.
This is that, you know, and it's like like okay, okay, fine,
I believe it, you know, but very few people actually
like look into this stuff exactly.

Speaker 2 (43:32):
I mean, look at advertising, right, I mean everyone's heard
of McDonald's, right, everyone has heard of Burger King, and
yet they still spend billions and billions of dollars every year. Right,
you don't need to like let people know about McDonald's right.
The whole point of it is is they pay to
just keep it going into your into your brain, to

(43:53):
literally program us. Even thinking about the laplique, I'm like,
was that real? Yeah, it's been like I don't know,
it seems like that program.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
No, it's nuts, And they'll just like continue to gaslight you,
like like Fauci will go in front of Congress change
the definition of gain of function research before he goes
in his question by Rand Paul so that he can
continue to lie and say not gain of function, not
gain of function. It's like the amount of cynicism at

(44:24):
that level around the American population's ability to deduce truth
is so high, it's like it's crazy. I don't know
what sort of cognitive dissonance, you know, exists in a
person like that. I don't know if he's pure evil,
you know, but it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
I thought it was interesting too. We mentioned Jig Barber,
and I thought it was crazy that Jig Barber was
actually at that disclosure briefing you talked about, and he
said he was there and he watched my Carrera's testimony,
and that's what actually changed because he was there doing
like a red team, So he was gonna go and

(45:04):
to investigate to see what was known in the in
the civilian world, if you will.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
Yeah, it's really wild. Yeah. He basically was like I was,
I was there on behalf of my employer red teaming
whistleblowers and you know, trying to round them up and
you know, basically do counter intel on them. And then
as soon as you know, he heard Herrera's testimony, he
was like, oh, I feel like he's an honest actor,

(45:34):
and you know he you know, sort of was kind
of converted. So yeah, it's a really crazy story. And
you you hear it when you speak to him, and
you when you he heard you know, my interview with him,
like he just super like sophisticated, savvy guy. Like you know,
he even said, like what I was doing was like

(45:54):
you know, uh, four D or five D hologram porting
itself into four space time or something or maybe it
was a forty hologram and that I guess, yeah, would
be five D into forty and so like it was, yeah,
he was like I operate, you know, he was like,
I operated in the shadows and then I would like
you know, yeah, you know it It's like, you know,

(46:15):
we were like, what was your title at the time,
and he goes helicopter pilot whatever, you know, you know,
airplane mechanic, and you know he was a director of
like Graycie jiu Jitsu or something. It was like this,
you know, multi hyphen it like sort of you know,
he was a ghost. He was sort of sheep dipped.

(46:35):
So yeah, really really fascinating sort of sort of background.
And I don't know what's going on, you know with Skywatcher.
I hope. I'm always of the camp. You know, there's
a lot of scarcity dynamics in UFO world, people being
like I don't want this person to break the thing
or I don't want you know, I hope. I hope

(46:57):
Skywatcher finds a UFO. I hope could Art, you know, uncovers,
you know, some whistleblower that like you know, ends the
end the speculation, Like I truly hope, you know, it
just comes out in any in any shape or form.
And uh, I don't know, I don't I don't know
what's going on with Skywatcher, but you know that would
be that would be a big hope, hope of mine.

(47:19):
Given my interview with Jake where he was like, you know,
in six months, we're gonna be able to land one
of these things. Like I'd love to see something like
that happen. So yeah, we'll see.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
What And what did you think of the psionics You
kind of mentioned that you were prime for that already,
But do you think that's I guess what's your background
investigating in psionics?

Speaker 1 (47:40):
Yeah, never had a background investigating in psionics. But I
was always very interested in parapsychology, Like for the UFO thing,
I was really into this. You know, Rupert Sheldrake, this
guy who I've interviewed on my show around like morphic
resonance and like you know, information theoretics fields that lie

(48:01):
outside of or orthogonal to DNA transfer. So like people,
you know, if like a thousand people do a crossword
puzzle and then you do you know, a thousand people
do this other cross If a thousand people do a
crossword puzzle and then you have this crossword puzzle, nobody's done.
Like people will finish the crossword puzzle that the one

(48:21):
thousand people have finished a little bit faster. Like things
like that, or like you'll grow a crystal structure. It
takes a long time the first time, and then once
it's in this sort of collective memory, it's easier there
on out to grow, you know, those that specific crystal structure.
So I was interested in things like that and random
event generators, you know, the ability to affect a binary computer,

(48:45):
super rudimentary binary computer with you know, sort of a
mental interface. I think that's probably the most rudimentary form
of parapsychology, where like, if you're saying that the brain
actually is an active participant in choosing an eigenstate and
collapsing the wave function into a particular state, then you
really have to extrapoloid outwards and say that we are

(49:06):
rendering reality real time, and that's like a total paradigm shit.
So I was very interested in all that stuff free UFOs,
and in some ways I think it's upstream of UFOs
and like more fundamental and more interesting. And I think
the deeper you get into the topic, the more you
come back there. And like somebody like a Jacques Valet

(49:28):
obviously studied it on the nuts and bolts level, but
clearly understands like the deeper psychological underpinnings of you know,
the whole thing. I mean, the dirty little secret of
the UFO world or whatever, is like everybody does have
this sort of autobiographical personal quests that they're on and

(49:50):
they've experienced sort of magical things in their own life,
and so you're talking about people who are bought into
like an ontology that are like it is entirely separate
from like people who just go about their day and
sort of pay their taxes. And that's even true for
somebody like Robert Hastings, who like, you know, it's the
most rigorous, best sort of database on UFOs because it's

(50:12):
you know, all these Q cleared guys talking about nuclear cases.
Like it's hard to argue with that from like a
first principles, you know, perspective. But the way you might
try to debunk that or whatever, if you're you know,
a hyper skeptic is you'd say, well, Hastings has had
his own experiences or something, and then you get to
me that makes it more interesting, not less interesting, and

(50:34):
you get into the fact that like maybe reality itself
is fractured and you that's that explained sort of Mandela effects,
and you have maybe probable futures, probable pasts, you know,
that are sort of consensus based and then a constricted
present and you're the measurement instrument of that present. And

(50:55):
when you are, you know, in a good state, you
have almost like state dependent and state dependent futures and
your reality is like a you know, like a like
a punch card or something, where you are you're like
moving across like different paths and different futures. There'd be
no way to disprove that being true. There's no way
to disprove it. There's no way to corroborate it, you know,

(51:18):
because you'd have to like it's like the problem of
the I seeing the eye. But there's a actually a
guy named Wilder Penfield who was a from I think Montreal, Canada,
and he was like a you know, this like spooky neuroscientist,
cognitive psychologist guy who I think was involved in some
MK ultra stuff, and he studied mice that like, you know,

(51:39):
he would basically figured out that like if you just
changed the maternal connections, you can implant false memories in mice,
and no one would like like so if like if
somebody can have like you know, certain memories or whatever,
like you just have you have no idea like whether
whether that's like some like you know, consense this version

(52:00):
of like their past that isn't consistent with somebody else's,
you know, like like the main Deella effect itself. It's
just it's extremely interesting like that our model of reality
is probably way off. It's probably just way way way off.
And so that that would explain some of the UFO
stuff possibly because it's like you'd have like reality itself

(52:22):
would be this sort of consensus collapsing function. Certain people
would have the aperture or like ability to sort of
sense these UFOs, other people wouldn't. It's like, you know,
having a theological debate, Like have you ever had a
theological debate where like the you rationally convinced somebody that
God exists? Like it never never works, right, Like the
person has to be sort of like initiated in this

(52:44):
weird you know, it's like they have an experience in
their own life or something gets unlocked in them or
you know whatever. So that's the that's the tough issue
with the whole UFO thing is it's it's disclosure. Isn't
going to be some like rational life like you know
this like equation on a chalkboard or like you know,
high fidelity you know, uh, imagery or whatever, like none,

(53:08):
none of this stuff is what's going to necessarily move
the needle. You have to. It has to hit this
like deeper sort of irrational thing that you know, every
everybody has inside of them, this like this quest for meaning,
and some people express that quest for meeting in this
dogmatic atheism, you know. So that's like the ironic thing,

(53:28):
but everybody has it. That thing doesn't go away, and
every everybody has this thing that like makes them feel
safe in the world of metaphysics. And it could be
that metaphysics doesn't exist, but you know, and and the
UFO thing really speaks to that. And that's that's why
I'm convinced, you know, half half the people that are
into it are into it. So yeah, so it's like

(53:51):
UFOs are just you know this one there there, it's
the tip of the it's the tip of the iceberg,
you know, it's the tip of the spear, but that
there's there's something much deeper going go on.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
Yeah. I love Rupert Sheldrake's work. You know, I thought
I was so smart or innovative when I first started
out in this, and I kind of came to the
conclusion that if there was an alternate medium like an ether,
and we could communicate if you will, telepathically. Right. Essentially,
if you could prove telepathy is real, then that would

(54:22):
prove that there's a medium to communicate with, which would
explain a lot of these the WU effects if you
will like communicating telepathically with other mediums, with channeling mediums
with other entities. So I devised this test, you know,
I was so proud of myself where I called it
the telephone test where basically you have four people that
you're friends with, whether you get three or four people together,

(54:44):
and then you just use a random number generator to
pick one of those four people, and they call your
contestant if you will in the other room, right, but
before they call, you already know the random number generator
has chosen the person the other the contestant tries to
guess who's gonna call. And I called it the telephone game,

(55:07):
and it's actually it's fun. Actually do it at parties,
right because probabilistically it should be twenty five percent right,
one in four you should be able to guess if
you do enough runs. You have to do thirty runs
to make it statistically probable or statistically analyzable, which is difficult, right,
that's a lot of runs. So I did this and

(55:27):
consistently found higher than twenty five percent, you know, just
kind of anecdotally that's not in a scientific setting, and
thought I was really smart. Oh this is amazing, And
then I realized Rupert Sheldrake had done this like decades ago.
Like literally, if you go and look at his YouTube channel,
you'll see these and there it's from like I don't know,
it looks like from the eighties. You know. They're in

(55:50):
like eighties style clothes and they do these telephone tests
and he's basically proven it scientifically that you get hot
numbers well above thirty percent. It's like thirty five percent
up to fifty percent if they even know each other. Yeah,
but no one cares, right, It's like no one cares. Yeah,
no one cares. I was like this, this is min
This is literally mind blowing, like this, I don't see

(56:11):
how that doesn't prove telepathy. I just don't get it.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
No, totally. Well, yeah. Jessica Utt in twenty sixteen or
seventeen was the president of the American Statistical Association, So
she is extremely well respected in stats, not in like
like just discount any sort of interest in parapsychology. She
in the nineties was tasked by the CIA with doing

(56:38):
a meta analysis on psychical research involving you know, gansfield
experiments and stargate and all these different psychic experiments, and
she came out being like, if this were any other field,
it would be beyond a shadow of doubt that these
all these results are extremely replicable, like way more we
talked about psychology, Like it's this like you know, you know,

(57:00):
really important, like you know, ironclad. You know, field psychology
is way less replicable than parapsychology. And this has been
going on. I mean, you have jb Ryan from in
the thirties and forties, you have you know, the Paar Lab,
the Princeton Anomalists, you know, Princeton Engineering and Anomalist Research Lab.

(57:22):
Bob John was a plasma physicist. He was the dean
of the Engineering school at Princeton, and he started pair
Lab and he came out being like, I think all
this stuff is really Nobody who has engaged in the
actual study in a deep way comes out saying that
it's fake. It's weird thing where you get this like
version of reality that believes in this stuff. And then

(57:42):
you go back to you know, earlier stuff, which is
like quantum mechanics, and you realize that a lot of
the early godfathers of quantum mechanics flirted with the idea
that the mind was part of collapsing the wave function.
So you know, like even Max Plank, who was like,
you know, really early in like the you know, developed
quanta itself, he was saying, you know that the mind

(58:04):
creates causality, you know, and Strodinger was you know, he
would say, you know, he was sort of against the
mind collapsing the wave function. But like, you know, I
think he named his dog. His nickname of his dog
was like Otman, and like he was super into the uponashads.
And and then he wrote a whole he had a
whole you know, lecture series called what is Life in

(58:25):
nineteen forty four that was like about how consciousness is
like upstream of biology and like you have these a
periodic crystals in the DNA that like you know, are
your intention like effects or whatever. Like it was really trippy.
And then you have Bigner and von Neuman, who literally
their model and the von Neuman was known as the
most the smartest in his time. He was like this

(58:47):
one hundred and fifty to two hundred IQ type that
like was a polymath, knew everything about everything, and he
was like, you know, I think the mind has something
to do with collapsing the wave function. So John Wheeler
flirted with ideas adjacent to this, along with Tippler, all
these like top guys like believed in things like this.

(59:08):
Pawlly definitely was, you know, maybe a proponent of this
at times, and then it just moves into like this, No,
your mind has nothing to do with it. And I'm
convinced that that is because we can't turn parapsychology into math,
and it's not perfectly repeatable, so you can't turn it
into math or technology. And because it's not perfectly repeatable

(59:30):
and you can't turn into math or technology, it just
falls into this like anomaly bucket where you know, it's
like black body radiation or like certain observations in the past,
like the Kasimir effect is now where no scientists would
argue that the Kasmir effect, you know, isn't real. Everybody
would say it's real, it's an anomaly. It's just a

(59:52):
it's a thing that breaks the current theory, but we
don't have a good theory that encapsulates it. And if
you get enough anomalies, then you get it breaks the
dam of the current theory and you get a new theory,
and that that's the whole, you know, Thomas Kuhne's you know,
structure of scientific revolutions. So I'm convinced parapsychology is just
a harbinger of the next paradigm. But you can't argue

(01:00:14):
it's people with the data. Like you know, one of
my closest mentors and friends helped run the Princeton Lab
under Bob John and he worked on the study. He's
like one of the highest agency people I know. He
runs a hedge fund that's like a multi billion dollar
hedge fund and like crushes it in that and he's like,
I would try to talk to the physicists, you know,

(01:00:36):
at Princeton or whatever, and he can speak to like
conventional physicists physics, he can program computer. He's a genius polymath.
And he'd be like, I try to speak to them
and say this is the data, and they'd say, oh,
you have a file drawer issue, or you have survivorship
bias and he'd be like, no, we controlled for that,
and this is how we controlled for that. And they'd
be like, well, no, you didn't, like, I don't know

(01:00:56):
what to say. They would break their brain. So yeah,
that's that's you end up in these sort of like
you know, I'm not willing to look at the data
debates or whatever with these sort of you know midway
conventional physicists like Neil Neil de Grasse Tyson wouldn't even
condescend himself to like look at like a data set
around this this stuff. So yeah, until we get some

(01:01:19):
big shift on things like that, I don't know if
UFOs are like have to be bucketed in with that
or if they you know, they are things that are
you know, downstream of parapsychology, which which end up getting
accepted you know, prior to UFOs. But it's a really
tricky landscape and it it makes the like it once
you start to like acknowledge the parapsychological truths behind a

(01:01:42):
lot of this stuff, it's really tough because on a
first order you have to like say, like the UFO
phenomena phenomenologically is like extremely real, which I you know,
obviously I believe it is, and then on a second order,
you have to be like, but you have these like
sort of like you know, fractured realities thing, and then
like it's like this really hard, you know. And then
they're like, well, you're crazy. You believe reality is sort

(01:02:04):
of subjective, and you're like, but I have all this
like decent, you know, evidence to believe it is, and
like you don't have any evidence that it's objective, you know,
So you end up in these sort of like you know,
like loops, these tautological loops, these arguments that like are
sort of metaphysical in their you know, implication. I think
everybody anecdotally has had probably beyond statistically significant anecdotal personal

(01:02:31):
experiences of wanting a thing to happen in their life
and it's showing up in a bizarrely specific way or
synchronicities that they just can't explain, and you can, you can,
you know, you can live in a world where like
that's wrong because of physics, because some dude with a

(01:02:52):
maybe a slightly higher IQ and like you know, who
wears a vest and like you know, in some ivory
tower is telling you that that yes, that's you know,
that's not true. Or you can choose to like believe
in that. I think the world in which you believe
in that is like a much better reality for your
own like personal outcomes. But like you know, it's up
to it's up to everybody individually to decide. But yeah,

(01:03:16):
I think there are all these good arguments, even scientifically,
that this stuff is very real.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
Yeah. I remember Rupert Sheldrake. One of my favorite arguments
he made was that you're they did this test that
your dog actually knows when you're coming home. And they
would do tests where they would like, before the guy
gets home, they would call him and have them stop
coming home, like they'd tell someone to come, and then
the dog would go to the door. And then when

(01:03:43):
they when they called him and they knew the time
they called him, and they had eyes on the dog,
I don't know through camera systems when they turned it
told him to go back to work. The dog would
them be like, oh, okay, he's not coming home, and
they would they would go back.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
I love that no pets know when they're like owners
in and babies know and their mothers are near, and
there's this primordial connection that goes well beyond your like
just sense perceptions clearly, and I think we all kind
of know that on an intuitive level, and I think
language and prefrontal cortex style Western intelligence cuts against that.

(01:04:19):
And so the more you can, you know, you know,
be in this kind of heady abstract intellectual space, the
less you're in that like intuitive space. And uh, it
makes sense that in some ways animals would be more
attuned to these things. And I think Sheldrick also talks
about how them, you know, they sort of have premonitions

(01:04:39):
around or like you know, they sense sort of natural
disasters and things. And you also look at like, you know,
videos around skinwalk or ranch. You have like I think,
like a cow freaking out when they detect like a
UAP like nearby, and you have people having hitchhiker effects
where like their dogs and their pets or whatever, like
freaking out more than they are, as if the dogs

(01:05:00):
sense something in a way that like humans can't because
we're too we like over intellectualize, and like, you know,
it's it's a it's a cliche, but I think it's true.
As well. As you develop one sense, you know, where
as one sense goes another gets strengthened or the opposite.
You know, you develop one sense, you probably lose another.
And I think the people who are deepest on this stuff,

(01:05:21):
whether it's Diane Hennessy Powell with the telepathy tapes or
Joseph mcmonagall, say that the mind itself is a sense
and that there's some sort of snap intuition that lies
outside of the epistemological circuitry of you know, inductive learning,
and you just get this sort of snap intuition. And

(01:05:42):
I think there's probably gonna be some neuroscientific explanation for this,
you know, whether it's you know that you know, Julian
Jane's like, you know, he's not super scientific, but you know,
the origins of consciousness in the bi cameral mind, or
you know, you have this sort of left brain right
brain thing. Ian McGilchrist is another guy that writes about this,

(01:06:04):
you know, and we really have I think the left
brain right thing is probably overrated in some ways, probably
not you know, not a perfect dichotomy. But at the
same time, I think we really have come to rely
on like like there was like an animistic world that
you know, we used to live in, and it's very
easy to paint over the past with our modern epistemology

(01:06:26):
and say, the Greeks didn't actually see these gods or
see these spirits or things like pre Enlightenment, they didn't
actually experience angels and demons affecting the material world. That
was just before we had these sort of mathematical placeholders
in the form of you know, inertia and gravity and
concepts like that. And I think that is the epitome

(01:06:48):
of hubris. You know, I think your intentional patterns probably
affect actually what you see on a much more fundamental level.
And we're probably constantly drawing from a meme library, if
you will, that superimposes itself onto reality, a reality that's
like much deeper than you know, we really aren't. You know,

(01:07:09):
we're seeing this sort of veil illusion, which is you know,
that's a theme in like all religions.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
That's a great point because there's this I grew up
atheist essentially until I really got into this topic. I
was of the metaphysical kind of argument, like you said
there that that's still a metaphysical argument, is that you know,
there is no existence or life after death, I guess,
if you will, or something greater. And then really looking

(01:07:36):
into this topic forced me to confront my own bias
where if this is possible, then that that also has
to be possible. And I've kind of hit the realm
where I believe anything is possible. Although I think there
is only one reality, I guess if you will. I
don't think it's quite that subjective, you know, And that's

(01:07:56):
why I think you can come up. You know, there's
an infinite amount of incorrect arguments I believe, and there's
only one really correct argument, you know. That's why I
think it's very difficult to find a correct model of
the world or a physics of reality. But it's much
easier to say that one model is incorrect, you know.
I think it's it's it's very easy to debunk something,

(01:08:19):
if you will. Then to prove that something actually exists,
or to identify what the phenomenon is. It's much easier
to say that there is a phenomenon and I don't
know what it is than there is to say there's
a phenomenon and I know exactly what it is.

Speaker 1 (01:08:34):
Yes, yeah, that's right. It's it's an extreme. It's whatever
is going on has like this crazy whack a mole,
like right when you're about to get the evidence, it
disappears or something it's extremely hard to to find. And

(01:08:54):
you know, like and then and then right when you
get to moralize or whatever, it like, you know, some
new thing pops up that's actually kind of hopeful. Yeah,
but it just seems to be like you know, drags
you along, you know, and that itself feels like you know,
it's like Plato, You're dragged out of the cave and
towards the light. Like it feels like this sort of

(01:09:16):
you know, religious personal quest. You know, it's like very
it's very interesting and I find it fascinating also when
certain UFO researchers get really into like God or Jesus
like after but like after they like know a lot.
So like, Ok, Shannon was, you know, a project manager
at Los Alamos and this guy Project Unity did this

(01:09:37):
you know interview with him, and he's like extremely extremely religious,
but he was also part of this advanced theoretical physics
working group with how put Off and like really deep
on the UFO stuff. You know. A researcher of mine
spoke with Eric Henry Wang's daughter, this woman, Erica Wang.

(01:09:59):
Eric Henry Wang is this uh guy who Bill Steinman,
who was this UFO researcher you know in the eighties
and nineties died recently. Actually, he like you know, found
that he was the one he was the one guy
that like he wasn't supposed to look into Eric Henry
Wing because he's had of special projects at Right Right
Airfield in the fifties and then he moved to Curentland

(01:10:21):
Air Force Base and like he kept getting these sort
of reprisals like don't look into this guy. And my
you know researcher spoke to his daughter and you know
she's like extremely religious. And Scott Crane, you know, is
another researcher who I think had some interactions with Eric Walker.
You know, at Penn State, it was rumored to be

(01:10:41):
sort of Majestic twelve. You know, he he kicked Uh.
He was rumored to be at the Kecksburg crash.

Speaker 2 (01:10:49):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:10:50):
He spoke to this guy Ozidell, this you know British physicist,
our British Armenian physicist, and spoke to Steinman and all
these people and and would say things about like the
Majestic twelve. He kicked Kick Green? Who kick Green? You know,
studied all these sort of you know, weird physiological effects
of UFO stuff with with Gary Nolan. He kicked Kick

(01:11:11):
Green out of his office and was like when Kick
Green was questioning him on UFO programs and was kind
of tacitly admitting that, like he was part of this stuff.
Eric Walker and Scott Crane was one of these researchers
who interacted with Eric Walker and Scott Crane then just
like converted and became like super religious. And I find
that I find that to be really interesting too, Like

(01:11:33):
the people who they'll go on this like quest around
the UFO thing and and then they're they're like they
just come back to like sort of you know God
or Jesus or you know, Moses, you know, whatever whatever
it is for them.

Speaker 2 (01:11:48):
Mohammed, Well he did, right, Mohammed. I mean he meditated
in a cave and then he met with some basically
met with you know, John Smith. You know he basically
had a some sort of interaction with a with an angel.
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
Yeah, it's all Joseph Smith.

Speaker 2 (01:12:08):
Tell about that, Sorry, Justice Smith.

Speaker 1 (01:12:10):
Yes, ye, yes it is. And it's it's interesting because
like there's there's there's always a hierarchy of being and
that the top is always God and so like if
you think about it, like if you do believe the
Jock Vla Diana Posulka, you know it's angels and demons
from the past or whatever. Just trying to prove that

(01:12:34):
these things are real would be like not probably the
best use of somebody's life, Like, like, they are real,
of course they're real, But like what should you be
most focused on? Probably God, like the thing above them,
you know. And I'm always you know, I'm I'm a
very sort of you know, gnostic person, and that I

(01:12:56):
like I need like evidence and like direct experience and stuff,
and so that that sort of motivated this whole this
whole thing for me. So God itself is like, you know,
this very ineffable thing that's hard to very you know,
it's hard to approximate, and we don't have you know,
we don't have you know, evidence for outside of you
can call it the God of the gaps, right, like

(01:13:17):
the fact that our world itself just feels like this
crazy miracle, you know. But yeah, it's just I find
that I find that fascinating.

Speaker 2 (01:13:29):
Yeah, it's it's a crazy miracle that you have to do.
It's also you have to wake up and yeah, I
think I think it's I look at like my dog,
you know, and I don't know if you have a dog.
Do you have a dog?

Speaker 1 (01:13:45):
I don't. I did have a dog. I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:13:48):
Sorry to hear that. Yeah, anyway, you see the dogs, right,
and they're very smart in many ways. But like think
my dog and I assume a lot of dogs has
no idea what a leash is, like just it can't
put this idea into its head, right that if the
leash goes around a pole, there is nothing he can't move.
You know, he's going to be trapped. It's literally like

(01:14:09):
he is evolved to not see the leash. It's invisible.
It's completely invisible. Right, It's obvious to a three year old.
You know, a three year old human could figure out,
like if I'm tied to a rope and I go
around a pole, Like if I keep going around the pole,
I'm just going to hook myself to the to the pole.
But my dog will just go around that pole until
he's stuck to the pole, you know, wrapped around it.

(01:14:31):
And I think they just he doesn't have it in
his world, Like the leash doesn't exist in his world.
It's like he literally has evolved to not see the lass.

Speaker 1 (01:14:42):
Well that's what I that's what I worry about with
some of these like summoning UFOs technique. It's like, on
the one hand, it's insane. If you can get these
things to show up, you get high resolution you know,
cross cross sensored data or whatever, like that's amazing, right,
And then on the other hand, like, are you just
like a raccoon chewing on the power lines of like

(01:15:06):
a campsite and they're like, stop chewing on the power line.
They just show up and then and then like occasionally
they're like jam your shit, you know, they're like jam
your sensors and like fuck with you. Like is that
you know, Like, uh so it's a yeah, I think
I think we are. That's a that's a great analogy.

(01:15:26):
It's like we're we're like the ant on, like in
the forearm of something so much larger than us, and
it's so hard to sort of, you know, really grasp
and understand, you know, what's going on. And there's a
great book called Forbidden Knowledge by I think it's Roger Shattuck,
and like you have all these like this, like the

(01:15:47):
this archetypal story of like Prometheus and Faust, you know,
but going directly for the knowledge, and it usually like
doesn't end well for you know, a couple you have
a couple of a couple of myths that sort of
do our counter to that, Like you have this you know,

(01:16:07):
Christian rosen Kreutz and the Rosa Krusians or whatever. Like
I think he just like stepped inside, you know, he
he actually just witnessed the Ark of the Covenant and
he saw, he saw everything, and he wasn't burned. You know,
he went to the holiest eplolleys. But I think that's
very rare. So yeah, I don't know, it's interesting, like

(01:16:31):
like all of our lives are, like you know, it's
like a it's like a Werner Herzog movie or something
where you're just like, you know, whether it's taking a
you know, a rubber steamship up up up a mountain,
you know, FITZGERALDO or whatever. You know, yeah, a steamship
for it was like rubber rubber mining or what a
rubber you know, I don't know, in uh in South

(01:16:52):
America or like uh you know, uh Aguirra the Wrath
of God, like there are all these like quixotic characters,
you know, and you know, like I don't know. These
quests are definitely worthwhile, but we're also we're just like
we're like dust in the wind too.

Speaker 2 (01:17:09):
Like dust in the wind. You know. I would love
to see this guy in your channel. I've interviewed him
once and I should have an interview with him again.
But I think it'd be great if, if anything, just
to get him more exposure. You know, is Dean Raydon.
I don't know if you heard of Dean Raydon, scientist.

Speaker 1 (01:17:27):
Yeah, yeah, I've met Dean.

Speaker 2 (01:17:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:30):
We talked about Yeah, yeah, we talked about doing a
thing and I should have him on. I think that'd
be great. It's just I don't know, man, like that stuff.
You just it's I I want to like I want
to like show people how real it is. And like,
you know, he's been on the circuit for.

Speaker 2 (01:17:50):
Like he has forever a.

Speaker 1 (01:17:51):
Couple of decades, and he knows his stuff and he
goes on he does all these different experiments and they're
all really interesting. But there's some sort of dark matter
between that, just like the UFO thing that and like
consensus reality. And I think that the UFO thing is
shifting and to go against some of the maybe nihilism
I've expressed in this interview. You know, I do think

(01:18:12):
the gap is closing, and people are you know, Tulsi Gabbert,
the head of dn I was like, we need disclosure
on UFOs like as part of her mandate. Now she's
probably forgotten about it and you know, deciding whether or
not to kowtow about you know, Epstein being you know,
a real intelligence front or not along with her colleagues,
you know, right now, and and you know isn't focused

(01:18:36):
at all on UFOs. But the fact that you put
in her platform really cool. The fact that Don Junior
interviewed Ross Colthart, Like, all these things are really cool.
You know, Jake Barber coming out, David Grush, if you
were to snapshot where we are now to like, you know,
seven eight years ago, yeah, you know, you'd be like,
you know, the field's actually like made a lot of
progress and it's really it's really cool to see that.
But yeah, I'd love to interview Dean. Just my short answer,

(01:18:58):
but uh, I just I don't know, I get sort
of demoralized with a lot of the parapsychology stuff where
I'm like, it's fun to like have these conversations, but
unless you have like a working model as to how
some of this stuff works. The people who are arguing
to believe you are just going to believe you, and
the people who aren't are just not. And then if

(01:19:19):
you can't turn into science and tech, you know, I
I don't know, I don't know what to do with it.
But I've the guy I mentioned one of my close
mentor with the para lab guy. I've interviewed him twice
now and I haven't put it out because he wants
to put out in like a precise, you know sort
of way. And like the interviews weren't that inspiration, Like

(01:19:41):
I was probably taking liberties with my own understanding of parapsychology,
and he was kind of nitpicking about, you know, where
I was wrong or whatever. And but we're getting I'm
going to do something with him and hopefully hopefully it's good.
But uh, yeah, I don't know, man. I think the
parapsychology stuff, a lot of science will come out like

(01:20:02):
when it's when it's supposed to do or something like,
you know, I think I think they are all these
there are all these scientific things that are really crazy
that that are real, and then why they don't seem
to touch consensus reality. I just I just don't know why.
I don't understand it.

Speaker 2 (01:20:18):
Yeah, I was I would love like a live Faraday
cage like Gansfield experiment.

Speaker 1 (01:20:25):
Yeah, that would be cool.

Speaker 2 (01:20:26):
I don't I was thinking to that to make that
somehow reality. Get Dean raided in there or something. Do
a live Faraday test?

Speaker 1 (01:20:35):
Would that that's a great idea. We should do that. Yeah,
like a visual like you, like I found this person.
They have no idea what's going on. You know, they're
they're going to do the psychic experiment or whatever, and
then Dean's there, and yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:20:50):
We'll just have Deans designed the experiment being there.

Speaker 1 (01:20:53):
Yeah, he designs the experiment, but he's not even there
or something. Yeah, that's cool.

Speaker 2 (01:20:57):
I don't know, it seems like something like that. But
I'd be remiss if we don't talk about the tech
you've looked so much into, like the biofield Brown effect.
You're so knowledgeable, you can just pull all these facts
out of your brain. But have you looked into Chris Chiba?
Have you seen his his recent breakthrough? Oh you love it? Man.

(01:21:21):
So he's a Princeton professor. But this this new, this
new experiment he came out with. He just did it
in his garage. So basically he looked, he looked into
so it's it's amazing, dude, and I'll put up some
visuals right now so the audience can know, all right.
So so basically this is the experiment. And so dude,

(01:21:42):
did Chris Chaiba is He said he found a loophole
through Maxwell's equations. So he went through Maxwell's equations and
he found a loophole for where you could actually get
you could interact with the magnetic field of an object.
So basically there's and you can look this up afterwards,

(01:22:05):
but there's kid crazy. Yeah, there's confusion with where does
the magnetic field. Does the magnetic field of the Earth
spin with the Earth or does it stay static? Right?
And so what he determined is and that's still up
for debate, like they still don't really know. Modern physics
doesn't know if the magnetic field of a magnet spins

(01:22:28):
with the object or if it's days static. And so
so this guy, Chris Chaiba basically went through all the
Maxwell equations and said, oh, there's this salophole, right, And
basically he released a paper in twenty sixteen Okay, yeah,
So here's the paper, right, and so he wrote he

(01:22:49):
wrote this paper and it's called electric power generation from
Earth's rotation through its own magnetic field. And that's him,
Chris Chaiba and I don't know who Kevin hand is.
This just his friend. And he published this in twenty sixteen,
and so he went on Professor Simon's went on Professor
Simon channel and he said no one contacted him or

(01:23:10):
anything like nothing happened, like nobody did anything. No one said, hey,
let's try this out. So this was in twenty sixteen.
Let me see, yeah, And basically it goes through and
says he identified a loophole and he shows that voltage
could be continuously generated in a low magnetic Reynolds number

(01:23:31):
conductor rotating with Earth and provided that it's in that
there's some certain constraints made and I can talk about
it in a second, but basically he says, we solve
the relevant equations for one laboratory realization, and from this
solution we predict voltage, magnitude and sign dependence on the

(01:23:52):
system to maation relative to Earth's rotation. Okay, so this
was in twenty sixteen. He has this theoretical abstract saying
that you can actually create a voltage and sign right,
so plus or minus, and so fast forward. Now again
no one does anything. So then fast forward to this

(01:24:13):
year and he creates So he just does it. No one,
no one contacted him, no one did anything. So he
just built it in his garage. And so what you
see here is this is a I think it's a
it's a magnetic farerite material, so it's a specific type
of material and it has to be in the shape
of a tube. So it has to be a tube.

(01:24:33):
And that has something to do with the topology of it,
and that has to do with the theory that again
goes above my pay grade and electromagnetics. But according to
this now they just it's sitting here static but spinning
now on the earth. It creates microvolts actually, and you
can rotate this thing. And he said it will rotate

(01:24:56):
through zero and then reverse charge. So it ought to
she pushed micro volts the other direction. So a cent,
you're talking about something not moving but is creating a
electric charge right now, it's microvolts. But whoa, yeah, this
would go a long way towards electromagnetics.

Speaker 1 (01:25:20):
Whoa, Yeah, to talk to this guy, this is fascinating.

Speaker 2 (01:25:24):
Yeah, he's at Princeton and he went on Professor Simon's show,
which is not that big. It's it's like the show,
it's it's smaller than yours. And since then I've seen nothing,
like literally nothing on it. Sabine Haustenfelder did a show
on it, and she said, yeah, it's possible. She said
it could be possible. Yeah, but that's it, like, whoa,

(01:25:45):
it's just died.

Speaker 1 (01:25:46):
But she could be a Debbie Downer if sometimes so
she can be cool. Yeah, I got to look at it.
That's fascinating.

Speaker 2 (01:25:56):
Wow, Yeah, this is right up, it's so awesome and
yeah it's huge. Christ gibe up. So check check that up.

Speaker 1 (01:26:05):
I will check that out. That is really interesting. So
it's basically the ability to tap into the Earth's electromagnetic
field to produce voltage, which I don't really know of
anything that can do that now.

Speaker 2 (01:26:18):
Well, well, basically the Faraday effect, right, So any conductive
material is is transferred through a magnetic field. Right, if
you have a changing, changing magnetic field is going to
generate electric current. So the point is, if you're spinning
on the Earth, right, if you're spinning on the Earth.

(01:26:40):
If the if the field of the Earth is static,
then you are moving, You're moving through a changing magnetic field.

Speaker 1 (01:26:49):
Mm hm m hm.

Speaker 2 (01:26:51):
And so you.

Speaker 1 (01:26:52):
Can you can then create microvolts or whatever based on
the differential of you know, like your magnetism as you're
moving or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:27:02):
Yeah, basically, if you have the right topology, which he
argues is this U shape of a tube and you're
moving and you're spinning with the Earth, that it's moving
through the Earth's own magnetic field. And that was his
first paper, is creating electric uh, I think generating electric
energy or charge I believe through the Earth's own magnetic field.

Speaker 1 (01:27:24):
So does the does the tube have to be moving?

Speaker 2 (01:27:27):
Well, the tube is just static, but it's it's moving
because the Earth is spinning.

Speaker 1 (01:27:32):
Uh huh. So like would this be you know, I'm
looking at the title of this thing, like the Filippio
Filipo Bondi or whatever beyond the yeah, you know, sar
Doppler tomography showing that there is sort of like this
energy grid below the pyramids or whatever. The idea would
be like they would be tapping into the Earth's electromagnetic

(01:27:54):
field via these like tubes or something.

Speaker 2 (01:27:58):
So that's my speculation, right, this is from my video,
from your video, Yeah, this is my video. So that's
what I speculate is that could the pyramids, you know,
could this explain the pyramids?

Speaker 1 (01:28:11):
That so interesting, But.

Speaker 2 (01:28:12):
That's just my speculation for a few different reasons. But
if you can generate electrical energy from just the earth
spinning and you're through unknown physics right that we currently
don't understand, then I speculate that you could that could
be possible that you could get some strange effects from
the pyramids. And I just interviewed them. I have an

(01:28:36):
interview coming out that will be before this video actually
Beyond Me on Friday, and man, that guy is legit,
Like I don't see how his tech is not legitimate.

Speaker 1 (01:28:48):
So cool, that's awesome. Yeah, I forgot things about him.
I'm going to Europe this summer and wanted to ideally
catch up with him. That's that's so cool. Well, I'm
excited for that interview. Man, that'll be fun.

Speaker 2 (01:29:00):
It was, yeah, it's I really enjoyed it. So with
Trevor Grossi and Filipo Beyondi. It was the third time
actually finally got Filipo finally nailed him down. But it's legitmate,
and he goes through. I asked him everything I could
think of on the technique. I mean, he did it
in a laboratory in his garage. Basically, he shows and
I asked him questions about, hey, how does that work

(01:29:24):
actually in his garage of the laboratory, so really interesting
and that tech is breakthrough.

Speaker 1 (01:29:32):
Seems like, I mean, I feel like if he laid
off the like, we don't know if it's a perfect
AI reconstruction point. The other stuff feels hard to argue
with that, Like those star Doppler tomography scans are real.
There's definitely something going on under there. So I feel
like if he was a little more like, I don't

(01:29:53):
know what's going on, but I don't know. I'd love
to talk to you. And this is all arm chair
coming from me. I don't really understand it. So it's wild.
It's cool.

Speaker 2 (01:30:00):
Yeah, well basically, and I confirmed with them directly, is
it's the same tech as it's called laser vibrometry. Did
you your history, buff, so do you remember back in
the CIA in the Cold War the CIA? And now
they have it where you can shine, you can shine
a laser at a window and they have a little

(01:30:20):
machine with headphones on it and you can actually hear
what's what they're saying inside the room. WHOA have you
heard of this?

Speaker 1 (01:30:28):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:30:28):
Oh, you'll you'll, you'll love all this stuff. Yeah, look
up laser vibrometry. Okay, And so there's a device and
they have them now you can purchase them where it'll
shine a laser out And that's why there's no windows
on skiffs. Right. Well, that's obviously obviously you can see in, right,
but you could see like seat, you could see screens

(01:30:49):
and you could read people's too. But what they had
the tech exists called laser vibrometry, where you just shine
a laser on the window and it picks up the
little microbrations on the window.

Speaker 1 (01:31:02):
Fucking crazy, and so it transmits I mean, hearing takes
place via like little vibrations like in the your inner ear,
and you have like bone conduction where like I think
it was was it Beethoven? He was deaf, Yeah, And
he would like literally like like bite on like a

(01:31:24):
some sort of charged raw or i mean charged like
metallic rod that was attached to his piano and and
he would sort of hear it would it would circumvent
you know, the outer ear or whatever, which was you know,
messed up, and just go straight to the you know,
kind of vibrations or whatever. And he would just he
would he would listen to music that way. So yeah, interesting.

(01:31:47):
So yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (01:31:48):
That's what they're doing. Yeah, but no, that's that's basically
the tech. And I asked him, Hey, is it like this,
and he said, it's basically exactly like that, except now
we have a one hundred kilometer long antenna because it's in space,
it's synthetic aperture radar. So the aperture is the is
the radar diameter. So the point is, since since you're
so far away and the satellite's traveling so fast, you're

(01:32:11):
effectively creating a giant radar. It's around he said, dozens
of kilometers, so it's probably less than one hundred kilometers,
but basically have this really wide aperture radar, and so
you're doing the same thing. You're shining like the laser
down on the ground and you're you're and then you're
able to listen to what's actually the vibrations going through

(01:32:32):
the ground. And I think one from my perspective. The
reason he's so aggressive in his claims is he's just
he's so confident in the technology. Like I think he
just has so many examples and like he's one hundred
percent confident in his mind it exists.

Speaker 1 (01:32:50):
The technology has been used to like I think math,
magma chambers, and side volcano. Like it's a real technology.
I've looked at in venture capital context, synthetic or to
rade our companies that were mentioned in the article that
his thing came out with, like Capella Space and Umbra
and that you know, I looked at both of those companies.

Speaker 2 (01:33:08):
So that's a.

Speaker 1 (01:33:09):
Real modality, and it gets you to higher resolution than
you know, optical like Planet Labs and like you know
those sort of constellations. So I know that's real. And
then I've heard Star again to being a Hasenfelder, who
is a DeBie downer in a lot of cases, who
also argued against the AI reconstruction, admitted that Star adoptic

(01:33:32):
tomography is a very real modality. So like I think
if anybody's saying there's nothing under underneath the pyramids, that
they're being extremely dogmatic, you know, based on this, and
then what's underneath there that feels like the mystery. And
then this is what fucking sucks again, where it's like
maybe this just stays stuck in this liminal space, is

(01:33:52):
like that thing is totally gate kept, Like is the
Egyptian Ministry of Culture ever going to let anybody, especially
these renegade scientists who want to write history down there
to see Probably not right.

Speaker 2 (01:34:05):
So probably not, But I think you can prove it
anywhere else that That's the point why I'm so optimistic
on this is if the technology is real, and you know,
talking to them and looking into them at least it
seems like it could definitely be possible based on their
previous examples. But if it's real, it's so profitable, right,

(01:34:26):
I mean, you'll be able to analyze, you know, while
you're drawing gas from a current gas field, you can
actually analyze like how much is left in there. It
could be for you know, any sort of minerals expiration.
And I think the military applications have already been known.
I'd be very surprised, like how did they know? And

(01:34:48):
again this is where you get in trouble. I don't
speak on behalf of any government, but how did they
know where those tunnel systems were you know, when they
bombed or rant. You know, you've got to be pretty
damn accurate. You have to be really accurate.

Speaker 1 (01:35:00):
What's the like ICE I. Yeah, Ice I is, Yeah,
Southern California based synthetic aperture radar company. And I think
they're Finnish originally they're from Finland. But yeah, the fact
that they have like a Southern California outfit, to me
shows that they had to do that to work with

(01:35:21):
the American government. So yes, no, I think all I mean,
you get to like zero point two five, like you
get you get to like really impressive levels of granularity
and resolution with this stuff, so it's much better than optical.
So yeah, no, that's definitely real. And then yeah, the
Doppler tomography part is the part that I'm less familiar with,

(01:35:43):
which you might explain the tunnel thing for sure. I
think even Beyondy says like, I can't talk about the
work that I do, you know, outside of the you know,
this stuff with the with the pyramids. But I think
I think BEYONDI himself does work with the Italian you
know military military comment.

Speaker 2 (01:36:06):
Yeah, but and so you know, yeah, the biggest thing
would be the the S four, right, imagine that, and
I'm sure the US government would be terrified of this,
right if you could see where all the tunnels were.
But like, just imagine right away, if we could confirm
that the S four hangars are really there, like Bob Azaris,

(01:36:28):
you could immediately corroborate. I just see huge breakthroughs.

Speaker 1 (01:36:33):
I think they are there.

Speaker 2 (01:36:35):
Yeah, but we have no proof. Right, Everyone's asking, where's
the proof, where's the evidence? You know?

Speaker 1 (01:36:39):
What if now you go, yeah, I don't know. I mean, yeah,
we'll see I would I don't know. Who knows?

Speaker 2 (01:36:50):
Cool? And then I wanted to ask you about this
the biofield Brown effect you talked about. Obviously, U at
least way more expert than me and Townsend Brown. I've
looked into his effect a little bit. But what what
I was really impressed by was this one encounter. And

(01:37:12):
we call him a clyider Bob, that's what Jack, Jack
and I call him. But this just came out and
it was on a flight safety channel, and I thought
it was very compelling. One of my more popular videos
this year, and it's it's this guy, Bob Pett and
he's just coming out recently publicly, and he came out

(01:37:33):
on the on the Flight Safety Channel with Todd Curtis
and a very compelling UEP encounter. And what he what
he talks about is this crazy looking like antenna. Let
me get a better picture of it, this crazy looking

(01:37:54):
antenna that flew that flew supersonic right past his glider.
And he got a very good look, got it, you know,
and then a glider. It's quiet, it's clear, you know,
there's no vibration or anything. So he got an amazing
view of this thing. And for quite a bit of time, right,
you know, you're talking twenty thirty seconds, he saw this

(01:38:15):
thing and based off the distances because the glider, Piet
knows exactly where the landmarks are, so he knew it
flew seven miles in less than ten seconds, so that's
well passed supersonic. That's like mark four. And then it
flew right next to the glider and so he got
an amazing look at this thing and the structure of it, sorry,

(01:38:38):
the structure of it was amazing. So it's basically it
was like four to five feet tall and it was
like a flying lollipop where it had this black structure
was like a black hole, he said, let me get
a better picture here. So this was like it was
just like an absence of light, so like a black hole,

(01:39:00):
and then protruding out of it. Out of the bottom
of this flying lollipop thing was the santenna like three
to four inches long, and it had three he said,
like actually they were they were square type structures on it,
and at the top there was a silver reflective like hat,
you know, shaped like a little UFO thing. And I

(01:39:21):
had a lot of the in the audience they said, hey,
that seems like the Townsend Brown Bilefield Brown effect. So
I don't know if you were aware of this, I want.

Speaker 1 (01:39:31):
Yeah, I went through it before this. I don't know.
It's hard to say because capacitor like definitely is curved
like that. So like you know, you have two electrodes
and incapacitor, and you'll you know, they're they're both sort
of you know, kind of you know, concave towards each other,

(01:39:53):
and you know, it's sort of you know, in his
experiments in asymmetric capacitor, so the you have, the negative
electric road is larger than the positive electrode, and it
creates this sort of possible differential that. You know, again,
I think we're sort of weak on the theory, but
the negative sort of chases the positive. So, yeah, is

(01:40:17):
that that top thing that might look like it somewhat,
but you need like a bottom thing. You need like
you need two capacity, you need two electrodes facing each other.
So I don't see that. That's insane. That's like the
coolest looking thing ever. But yeah, no, I don't. I
don't think it really resembles a Bifield Brown effect.

Speaker 2 (01:40:39):
Okay, okay, cool, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:40:42):
But it's wild. That's so interesting. The thing that I
think of when I see that is like, you know,
if you do the original translation of uh, you know,
Saint Francis of ASSISI having its experience on Mount Laverne,
it's flaming torch And I'm like, that would look like
an antenna today, you know, like a yes, yeah, so

(01:41:03):
but that I don't know, yeah, Bifol Brown effect. Also,
I think the super rudimentary effect that you probably the
craft itself wouldn't resemble the experiment that proves the effect,
If that makes sense. You'd use the effect from the
experiment into you know, and and implement something probably involving

(01:41:27):
counter rotating cylinders maybe maybe superconductors, maybe like the you know,
Klatonov ning Lee stuff. So yeah, I think there's probably
a connection there between Brown's stuff with direct current and
ning Lee's gravity shielding stuff, you know, with the ac

(01:41:50):
ac current.

Speaker 2 (01:41:52):
Like, some of these topics are so difficult. I know
you've looked into like the Nasca mummies and you talked,
you talked extensively about that on on Joe, and I'm
looking forward to whatever work work you have coming out,
But what about what about Bugi sphere? Have you looked
in the bogh sphere.

Speaker 1 (01:42:10):
I've held it for an extended period of time and like, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:42:14):
Okay, I didn't know that.

Speaker 1 (01:42:15):
Yeah, I don't don't know what to say on it.
It's like I'm inclined to believe that like Hime isn't
lying and that like this guy probably is just an
earnest guy that filmed the thing anomously flying around and

(01:42:36):
then he picked it up and then he sent it
to Hime, and like, and I don't think Hyme is
lying about it. And then you know, you have all
these like weird readings coming off of it, and so
but then you look at the thing, it looks kind
of fake. It looks like My first impression was like,
there's no way this is real, Like you know, it's
like the weird etchings and stuff. But the etchings also

(01:42:56):
pattern match and resemble what a lot of people say,
you know, their alien experiences are, you know, look like
or whatever when they look at quote unquote alien artifacts.
So I don't know, man, it's it's stuck in this
sort of luminal space. For me, I encountered it with

(01:43:17):
my friend of mar from Yes Theory, and both of
us were initially skeptical, and then we like I don't know,
learned more about the weird fact pattern around it, and
like you know, held it in our hands, and there
was a guy there who was like an employee of

(01:43:39):
I May and like when he would hold it, his
whole hand would like all the hair would raise on
his body. And they they detect like weird electromagnetic signatures
around this thing. It's three x the hardness of normal
like aerospace grade aluminum, and then it involve. There's there's layers.

(01:44:01):
They're like like the external shell is like singular, and
then the layer below that is like two hemispheres like
conjoined together. So the thing is weird man, I don't know.
And then that the microchip grid thing, you know, is
so strange that design. So here's the good news. It's

(01:44:24):
being tested by aerospace contractors that work with NASA, and
so my hope is that we get some real answers soon.
But the issue with even that is like you do
these tests and then you get some anomalist thing from
the tests. It's like Gary Nolan's isotope ratio. Like you

(01:44:46):
have a prestigious university, Stanford, you have Gary Nolan, this
tenured you know, microbiologist who's like Nobel nominee, you know whatever,
and he's saying that, you know, you have isotope ratio
and he shows you the pieces and they're little pieces
or whatever. But I'm just worried that with the bug
of spirits, like we get some similar like yeah, it's weird,
it's anomalists. We don't know, you know, And it's like,

(01:45:10):
you know, still this sort of cat and mouse thing
where you're getting you're getting kind of teased, but we'll see.
I'm open. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:45:18):
Yeah, because it I watched the yeah, the recent or
the conference or presentation if you will, and Eric Burlison
that was there and I was like, damn, man, that
is amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:45:31):
Yeah, it's cool.

Speaker 2 (01:45:32):
And they had the video. Yeah, they have, and they
allegedly apparently have everything right, they have the the human
accounts they have it's a witness testimony. You have videos
and then you have this this object which looks like
it was just etched by like an eight year old.

Speaker 1 (01:45:50):
Yeah, and you have video. You have video that's like
seven minutes long or something with like a there is
a little gap when he put the guy picks it up,
so you got it. You have to note that. But
it's it's a long video. And I don't think that
the guy like has been hesitant to you know, go
fully public and not remain anonymous. So I don't know.

(01:46:13):
Maybe he's playing some sophisticated prank, like social psychology prank
on people. I don't, you know, but like I don't.
I don't think so, So I don't know, man, I
don't know. It's fascinating, but I don't. I also, like
I I you know, I can't conclude anything super you know,
in a bold way. But then on the other side,

(01:46:33):
I think people were like it's for sure fate, Like
what are you basing that how can you say that?
Like why would you say that? And I've spent enough
time with Hime Massan, who he's another guy where like
you put hoaxer next to this guy's name enough, you're
just gonna like stigmatize him. But he's not. I find
him to be more bold, stated and credulous than maybe me.

(01:47:01):
But I don't think he's intellectually disingenuous or dishonest. And
I think in his mind he's almost a little more
like simple and like a cool way where he's like
there's certain things like I feel like I have to
hold back on like you know, actually like I wish
I could, I could, Like my instinct is that a

(01:47:22):
lot of these things are just real, you know. But
like I think he just, you know, he's just like
look these things, they're tridactal beings. They're you know, you
found him in a cave with ditamatious earth. You think
this like walk Caro gravedigger like like like like synthetically
created them, and then one has a tridactal fetus inside
of it, and like he's like, of course it's real,

(01:47:44):
Like what do you mean? And then I think he
maybe takes a leap and saying he's sure it's extraterrestrial.
I don't think the signal to noise ratio is great
on the DNA, but maybe we'll have some interesting updates there,
saying as well, So that's exciting. But yeah, uh it's
I don't I don't find him to be a dishonest
actor at all. You know, maybe there's some subconscious thing,

(01:48:10):
you know when you're in news for that long where
you know you have to speak slightly, you know, you
have to get headlines or something. But like, I don't know, man,
I don't you spend a lot of time with the guy.
He's like independently. It's very wealthy, you know, just based
on his like news channel covering conventional stuff and like
sells a product that does, like you know, millions and

(01:48:32):
millions of revenue, and you know it's like a health product.
It's like algae and kelp or something. So this guy
does it. I mean, it's like a true like passion
of his and I don't I don't think it's driven
by you know, it's not. It's not a grift.

Speaker 2 (01:48:47):
So yeah, yeah, well that is great to hear. Actually,
I know when I when NASCAR mummies originally came out.
I came out super pro ofate, you know, this is
what we've been waiting for. And I end up retracting
the video and then looking back, I was like, I
shouldn't have protracted it, I guess, because either way you

(01:49:07):
put it out there, it's out there, you know. But
I was so positive on it, and then I pulled
the video and I interviewed Leslie Kane and I asked
her about it, and it seems like just in the community,
I don't know if Richard Dolan went down. There was
some event where Richard Dolan went down and it was
a similar Nasca Mummy type event where Jimi Musson had found,

(01:49:28):
you know, alleged were alien bodies, et cetera. And it
turns out it, you know, didn't pan out.

Speaker 1 (01:49:33):
What does that mean not panning out? Well? Yeah, Like
I think that the rule of thumb is like, if
somebody says don't look into something, you should look into it,
you know, and there, you know, coming from some official
like you know, channel, it's like, okay, and then only
listen to first principles arguments. So if somebody says this

(01:49:55):
is fake because you know, like Steve Mahra told me,
you know, we measured the the morphology type that you
were highest conviction on, you know, me speaking like highest
conviction on, you know, slapping some probability that they're real,
would be that these M types these like larger hominid
creatures or whatever. So Steve Mahra is like, you know,

(01:50:15):
I think the bones from Maria one of these M types.
One of the flanges is you know, male, one is female.
We have these like University of Paris studies where we
looked at this stuff that I take super seriously because
I'm like, okay, it's like first principles arguments. Like he's
saying that this is true. It's kind of beyond my
pay grade to debunk that, you know and say that

(01:50:36):
like that the genetics were you know, weren't weren't studied properly.
So like I take that very seriously. Uh. But somebody
being like, you know, we know now that that is
a like we've decided collectively, like the fuck off, Like
what are you talking about? Like you need you need
first principal stuff. And so the I'm going to come
out with the documentary on it, and it's just going

(01:50:56):
to be a fire hose of probably conflicting information on
where you should you know, lay your chips. But but facts,
just facts, and then you can decide for yourself and
hopefully that helps us, you know, snap it to a
grid either true or false at some point in the

(01:51:17):
near near near future, because I do think we're gonna
do some interesting follow up work on it and start
to know more conclusively soon. But again that's my hope.
But who knows. But uh, but yeah, no, I I don't.
I don't trust anybody that says, you know, you know,
they say you can't look into a thing, and they

(01:51:39):
say something fun don't give you. They don't give you
a good reason as to why. That's if anything, it's
a reversing indicator, so that you should look into it.

Speaker 2 (01:51:47):
That's awesome, man, I'm I was really excited to hear
that you are looking into it, Like seriously, you know,
just so far away. I'm in a different continent. Just
it's such a deep, large topic, you know, the NASCAR, Bummy,
I'm really glad you're looking into it.

Speaker 1 (01:52:03):
And I'll say this as well, like I do think
they're probably they're look I'm friends with a lot of
people who think about disclosure more in this like step
wise like managed process, like Carl Nell thinks about it
in this like we need a panel and we need
to you know whatever, you know, we need to like
people will be shocked if they knew or whatever, And

(01:52:26):
I just think the disclosure people are all gonna lose
if we don't get like more like just more like
you're already at over fifty percent consensus, like probably in
the US, the UFOs are real. So if you say
you know that, but like you know, there are people
who are like, well, if we find out that beings

(01:52:46):
are hybrids or this or that, it's like too much,
it's too much. But it's like, no, it's just it's
just true. Just you should just seek truth. And if
you go for the you go for the managed process,
it's gonna probably blow up and it's probably just not it.
It's not going to work super well. So again, you know,
I'm happy to like work with those people. I understand
where they're coming from philosophically, you know, I like a

(01:53:09):
lot of them, consider them friends. But I'm more in
the just like let's just just like let let the
stuff out, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:53:16):
Yeah, if everything we try and control as humanities just
get screwed up. It seems like like.

Speaker 1 (01:53:21):
Yeah, yeah, it's always it's always, you know, whenever you
try to hit a trimple bank shot, one of the
banks is going to get fucked up and you're gonna
get a trajectory that it's like America like trained, you know, yeah,
and like you know, and like it was working with

(01:53:42):
Saddam at one point in the Iranie Rock War and
like you're you're going to create some mo like and
so this topic is like this, you know, think about
like American neo kon neoliberal foreign policy for the last
fifty years, where we're like just you're it's a hydra,
you cut one head off, you get five in its
placed game of whack a mole. It's probably similar with

(01:54:03):
this UFO disclosure, where like you try to do some
like managed thing and it's gonna it's gonna blow up
in your face. The best, you know, I thought that that,
you know, the congressional you know thing, the recent one
with you know, Eric Davis and Louel Zondo and Chris
Mellon and stuff like, I thought that could have gone better.

(01:54:24):
You know, it felt like the takeaway was like you
know this this you know irre irrigation, crop circle or whatever.
So that was that was really really frustrating. So I
didn't think that went particularly well, you know, if you
wanted to actually push push the this stuff forward. But
the one, the one line that I loved in the

(01:54:46):
whole thing was like Eric Davis was like, yeah, like
if there is disclosure like the NHI or in charge
of it, and which true, it's a total logical fallacy
to think you can manage it. If you believe in
the NHI thing. You can't simultaneously believe you can like
manage a thing that involves them revealing themselves if they're
like way more powerful than you, like, it's literally like

(01:55:07):
a logical fallacy. So I thought that was like the
one good line from what was like a you know,
fairly frustrating.

Speaker 2 (01:55:17):
Hearing, I think, and that would explain a lot. But
hey man, thank you so much for your time today.
I had just one final question. This is from Ali
and Justin. They run a UAP Society UAP News show.
They're huge fans, and they asked, what is your greatest
hope for the future of humanity?

Speaker 1 (01:55:40):
Oh? I love it. I don't know, feels like humans
myself included it. You know, many times you know, mostly
are like chasing like the wrong thing. It's like the
wrong metrics, and it's like this cult of scale, end

(01:56:01):
of money, and you know, material world stuff, and everybody's
sort of hypnotized by that, or like you know, most
people are. And and I think there's this other probably
subset that are focused on like you know, love and
virtue and you know, contemplation of kind of the metaphysical

(01:56:23):
and things that transcend you know, faith and higher things.
And if we could shift you know, more towards that,
you know, in away from like the material world status
games thing, that that would be, that would be a great,
a great way you know, for for humanity to go.
And the tricky thing with studying UFOs is UFOs and

(01:56:44):
aliens are like this generic thing. And you know, if
you believe in the angels and demons dichotomy, which I
roughly do, then like half the time you're studying really
dark shit and like you know, it's it's and it
does bound up in like weird like the occult and
like you know, can trol systems and you know, you know,
you even get into Jock Delays stuff and it's like

(01:57:05):
you know, like they're using like Pavlovian conditioning and like
be a Skinner style stuff to like get us to
believe certain that like it's weird, and the abductions feel
at times like demonic or something. So I really, you know,
if believe if I think the thing that's amazing about

(01:57:25):
the alien thing is it breaks our materialist, reductionist worldview
because you're seeing something that's observable in the form of
UFOs and maybe even abduction experiences, and you can study
that stuff scientifically and like you can say they're you know,
probably government. There there have been like government interfaces with
this the government program, so it's like easier for people
to understand. But really like UFOs should be the thing

(01:57:49):
that like gets you to God, and it shouldn't be
that if you get if you get lost at UFOs
or whatever, you're like stuck on first base, you know,
that's that's probably that's probably like not the way to
live your life is just to like create some like
encyclopedic ontology and your brain of like you know, like
like our canna like lore, like like esoteric lore or whatever.

(01:58:14):
Like that's I don't know if that's you're probably lost
the plot. So yeah, I think I don't know. My
hope for humanity is and yeah, I should definitely take
my own advice here. It's just like I don't know.
We we have faith and higher things become, become better people,
and we we lose our obsession with these sort of
lower lower metrics, which yeah, I mean it's it's gonna

(01:58:36):
like blow the world up, like it's not, it's not
going to lead anywhere good if if if we if
we don't transcend.

Speaker 2 (01:58:42):
Them, yeah, amazing. That's my hope for increasing knowledge. I
think the AI revolution we're going through right now, decentralized information,
just like like we talked about, you know, the fact
that Jake Barber could hear Mike Carrera give that testimony,
you know, changed changed his actions in the future, you know.

(01:59:04):
I think, yeah, this decentralized information that that you're definitely
a part of. I think we're all a part of.
I think you are too. Is my hope that it, yeah,
brings knowledge and affects us in that way.

Speaker 1 (01:59:16):
It already is cold. I think breakthroughs occur through consilience.
So like the fact that you can cross the reference
at Princeton's Professor on the Earth selectro magnetism via some
tube thing, and then some Italian researcher who's doing studies
of SAR Doppler tomography under the pyramid. Like, that's amazing,

(01:59:39):
that's this, you know. EO. Wilson is this biologist. You
wrote a book called Concilience, And I think the scientific
breakthroughs that occur occur through inter domain knowledge. And we've
lived in this hyper specialized era and there's a lot
of dark stuff that comes with the AI stuff, but
there's a lot of really good good stuff too, And
the breaking down of the compartments is a really positive

(02:00:00):
of after effect of AI, where you get this sort
of increased consilience based knowledge. You have amateurs like you know,
me and and like like you who can have be
like a mile wide and you know, a few inches
deep and but make these really important connections and then
distribute important work that like you know, the the two

(02:00:25):
hundred IQ physics professor stuck in string theory, you know,
isn't isn't doing anything, you know, and like you know,
and we're doing stuff that's that's actually like moving the needle.
So yeah, it's it's exciting. Man. The final thing I'll
say is I feel like people over index On, like
you have Stephen greer On and it's like it's just

(02:00:46):
ZP and it's stuck in a it's like a it's
in this mystery box and the government and it's going
you know, it's gonna come out and once the zero
point energy comes out, everything's gonna be fine. Yeah, And
like I so I hate that. I hate that. I
think it's the dumbest, Like it's it's so technocratic and
it abdicates all, you know, humans of their own personal

(02:01:09):
responsibility like be better people, and that I kind of
it's kind of like the name of the show, you know, alchemy.
You know, it's your the science you get is the
science you deserve or whatever. And so you know, when
we if we ever unlock the Byfield Brown thing or
unlock you know that you know, any of these like
really exciting novel breakthroughs, it'll be probably step wise commensurate

(02:01:30):
with our own conscious understanding and you know, our own
you know, self reflection and personal progress. And so you know,
I love that as like a model for to me,
it's like a no noble mythology, like if you you know,
because there's so many people who just go for truth
and then they don't. They don't realize that, you know,

(02:01:52):
working on themselves has anything to do with the the
truth they get or whatever.

Speaker 2 (02:01:59):
Well, that's amazing, Jesse. That's why you have a killer channel, man,
That's why you're killing me, killing me in the views.
And I think, uh so smart dude, so passionate. Obviously
people can tell that from your work.

Speaker 1 (02:02:13):
Well, well, likewise man, and you I love this stuff
you've been doing, and I feel like you're you're you're
experiencing this like exciting, you know, especially with the BEYONDI stuff.
So I don't know, yeah, I think, like I was saying,
we got to move off the metrics, Like, I don't know,
my last video didn't perform well objectively, but I'm very

(02:02:35):
very proud of it, and like that's you know, who
cares about all that ship? You know?

Speaker 2 (02:02:38):
It's like, yeah, I found I think that's most important.

Speaker 1 (02:02:42):
Yeah, it's like what you know, none of it, none
of it ultimately, you don't remember any of those little things.
It's always like the you know, yeah, what do we
what do we push forward? And we're the kind of
magical magical moments and you're doing you know, the same thing.
So I'm excited. We'll see, let's see where things go.
It's a lot of a lot of irons in the

(02:03:04):
fire between the mummies and the Boogo thing and the
you know, the secret and stuff like something's gotta gotta
get hopefully.

Speaker 2 (02:03:11):
I think it will. Man. Yeah, and that's what. And
I've we talked before where I was like, man, I've
thought of quitting you know, uh, maybe multiple times. But
then it's it's really like this is the best. This
is the best part of it is, uh, getting to
make these relationships and meet people such as yourself, who
I think are really intent on finding the truth, you know,

(02:03:33):
at all costs, I think. But you know, you do
have to make it sustainable mentally and physical, you know, so.

Speaker 1 (02:03:42):
I totally yeah, yeah, yeah, it's yeah, totally, man, It's
it's it's it's one of these things where you know,
I think what's meant for you always comes back around.
So if you even if you give it up, like temporarily, it'll, uh,
it'll come back if if it's supposed to and it uh,

(02:04:05):
I'm sure it would for you. Like I'm sure you
can't quit that, I guess. Yeah, Like I stopped my
channel for nine months.

Speaker 2 (02:04:14):
I know, you didn't make a video for a while.
I was like, yeah, wondering what's going on if you're
working on some giant movie or something, because it'd be
months and you know, you'd come out with something amazing.

Speaker 1 (02:04:24):
I didn't from between Graham Hancock, I think, and David Grush,
I didn't come out with anything. And I was in
Denmark and I was with Amar from Yes Theory and
Grush happened to be a fan of Yes Theory and
Amar was like, dude, you have an alien focused channel
and you're not trying to cover your friend. Do you've
known him for two years? He just like made like

(02:04:45):
Global News with Ross Colthard and he's like and he's
like you, He's like, you could definitely connect certain threads that, like,
you know, the Ross thing was very matter of fact
and like and I'm like, I don't know, man, I'm
sick of all this shit, like fucking like and then
we called Dave and you know, he kind of convinces me.
And we called Dave and it was like, you know,

(02:05:05):
do you want to do a collab with Yes Theory
and me? And you know, I'm convinced that Yes Theory
thing really helped because yes, theory has this massive global
channel and they're very positive, and the whole thing just
kind of happened very serendipitously. And then when that came out,
I was like, I'm back in the back in the thing,
you know.

Speaker 2 (02:05:21):
Yeah, it's just like a bomb man out of nowhere.

Speaker 1 (02:05:25):
Well, I think I think I think that those those
those are the most cool things with disclosures, when things
come out of left field, and you should always be
skeptical if something feels a little managed or whatever. But uh, yeah,
per our conversation, I just don't think it can be.
I think it's a it's it's happening on its own timeline.

Speaker 2 (02:05:44):
Well cool, Well, definitely if you come to Europe, man,
stop by Portugal. Yeah, if you haven't been to Fatima,
that place is insane. If you haven't looked into the
Fatima phenomena.

Speaker 1 (02:05:55):
I noticing the story and I would love to I'd
love to check that out and I'd love to hang man.
I love Portugal. So I think I told you this,
but I was considering moving to Porto at one point
Oh really in my life Yeah, yeah, like two years ago. Wow,
So I absolutely love it there I've been to Nazaree too.
I have some friends who are big wave surfers who wow,

(02:06:18):
hang there a lot, so yeah, man, I'll try to
stop by for sure.

Speaker 2 (02:06:23):
Yeah, Nasara is super cool. Well yeah, thanks so much,
Jesse and everyone I'm sure knows your channel. If you haven't,
then go check out American Alchemy. It's got amazing stuff. Yeah,
breath of breath of videos, not just u aps but
definitely focus U A p S lately, So check it.

Speaker 1 (02:06:41):
Yeah man, Well, I appreciate you, and uh yeah, I
know we I won't I won't out this, but we
have a possible exciting collab with you on my channel
and then so so I hope that. I hope that
materializes and uh yeah maybe we can do it in
person in Europe or something, but let's uh let's figure
that out.

Speaker 2 (02:07:00):
Hett be sweet man, all right, Thanks ro.

Speaker 1 (02:07:03):
All right, thanks Chris. Appreciate you, man,

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