December 10, 2021 • 49 mins
In this intimate and inspiring episode, we sit down with Phaidra Knight — trailblazing rugby player, World Rugby Hall of Famer, attorney, coach, and entrepreneur — for a raw and personal conversation about her extraordinary life and career. From growing up in rural Georgia to becoming one of the most respected figures in international rugby, Phaidra shares the defining moments, struggles, and triumphs that shaped her path. Discover how she broke barriers in a male-dominated sport, her transition from athlete to advocate, and the deep sense of resilience, identity, and empowerment that fuels her mission today. This episode dives into the mental and emotional side of sport — exploring what it truly means to lead with strength, authenticity, and compassion on and off the field. Perfect for sports lovers, changemakers, and dreamers, this conversation is a powerful reminder that greatness isn’t just about victory — it’s about courage, purpose, and staying true to who you are.
🎧 Tune in on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, and Google Podcasts to hear the full story behind one of rugby’s most influential voices.
Tags / Keywords:
Phaidra Knight, rugby podcast, women in sports, female athletes, rugby union, sports leadership, athlete interviews, women’s empowerment, breaking barriers, resilience, mindset, athlete stories, sports equality, diversity in sports, LGBTQ athletes, motivational podcast, inspirational women, athlete to entrepreneur, personal growth, mental toughness, AART podcast
This week’s guest on the season finale is not only a USA rugby legend but a legend around the world. She has made three appearances in the Rugby World Cup and was selected as the top player in the world in her position in 2002 and 2006. In 2010, she was named the U.S. Rugby Player of the Decade. In November 2017, she was inducted into the World Rugby Hall of Fame. Currently she has her own clothing line called the PSK collective, which Naya is an ambassador for and is a commentator on the world rugby sevens series so you've probably heard her voice before. She has paved the way for women in rugby and is constantly taking on new projects, most recently MMA. Phaindra shares her passions with us and what's on her bucket list, some of which may surprise you...or not... if you know how invincible this woman is.
Hosts: Naya Tapper & Ilona Maher
Recorded: December 7, 2021
For more information, links and resources and hundreds more conversations from the world of women’s sport including articles, blogs, videos and podcasts visit wispsports.com. WiSP Sports is the World’s First and Only Podcast Network for Women’s Sport with more than 60 hosts, 1500+ episodes across 50 shows and over 7 million downloads. We are ranked in the top 2% of more than 2.71 million podcasts worldwide. WiSP Sports is on all major podcast players. Follow WiSP Sports on social media @WiSPsports. Contact us at info@wispsports.com.
🎧 Tune in on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, and Google Podcasts to hear the full story behind one of rugby’s most influential voices.
Tags / Keywords:
Phaidra Knight, rugby podcast, women in sports, female athletes, rugby union, sports leadership, athlete interviews, women’s empowerment, breaking barriers, resilience, mindset, athlete stories, sports equality, diversity in sports, LGBTQ athletes, motivational podcast, inspirational women, athlete to entrepreneur, personal growth, mental toughness, AART podcast
This week’s guest on the season finale is not only a USA rugby legend but a legend around the world. She has made three appearances in the Rugby World Cup and was selected as the top player in the world in her position in 2002 and 2006. In 2010, she was named the U.S. Rugby Player of the Decade. In November 2017, she was inducted into the World Rugby Hall of Fame. Currently she has her own clothing line called the PSK collective, which Naya is an ambassador for and is a commentator on the world rugby sevens series so you've probably heard her voice before. She has paved the way for women in rugby and is constantly taking on new projects, most recently MMA. Phaindra shares her passions with us and what's on her bucket list, some of which may surprise you...or not... if you know how invincible this woman is.
Hosts: Naya Tapper & Ilona Maher
Recorded: December 7, 2021
For more information, links and resources and hundreds more conversations from the world of women’s sport including articles, blogs, videos and podcasts visit wispsports.com. WiSP Sports is the World’s First and Only Podcast Network for Women’s Sport with more than 60 hosts, 1500+ episodes across 50 shows and over 7 million downloads. We are ranked in the top 2% of more than 2.71 million podcasts worldwide. WiSP Sports is on all major podcast players. Follow WiSP Sports on social media @WiSPsports. Contact us at info@wispsports.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Hi everybody, and welcome to seasontwo, Episode six of the Leos.
Then my name's Nice Happer, andmy fun fact is that my mom let
me get permanent hair streaks in fourthgrade. You might need to explain what
permanent hairstreaks to me, harror.Is that like when they you color your
hair. Yeah, like when youput the cap on and then you pull
out the pieces of hair and puton the hair color and then you wash
(00:27):
it out and you got streets andyou were like, mom, this is
a great idea. I mean,it looks so good with this. Yeah.
My teachers like, why would yourmom ever lets you get permanent It
was like honey blonde or something,so it was crazy. I'd like to
see pictures next time. My guys, my name's a Lotta mar And my
fun fact is that we just playeddue by sevens and I just played five
(00:49):
fourteen minute games, which really isn'tme. I don't think it's my brand.
I don't know if I want tokeep doing that. But as you
know, we're two Leos who loveto hear themselves talk, So of course
we'll start with the horse. Let'sgo. Do you often act as if
the world is static and nothing everchanges. Sometimes you may think that humankind
is a certain way, the worldis a certain way, and so this
(01:10):
is what you're going to do.Have you ever heard of evolution? The
human race is constantly evolving, andso is the world look around. That
is an interesting one, that's adeep one. Yeah. I don't feel
like we're static. I feel likewe know things change. We always want
to like do something else or getbetter. And I think even with like
traveling, like that's so much goingon. So like with me, like
(01:34):
I get to a point where I'mlooking forward to just sitting down and things
being the same for a little while, whether it's my environment or my schedule.
Yeah. True, Okay, guys. So on this finale episode,
we have a special guest for you, guys. Today we will be interviewing
not only a USA rugby legend,but just a rugby legend in general.
(01:57):
She has made three appearances in theRugby World Cup and was selected as a
top player in the world in herposition in two thousand and two and two
thousand and six. In twenty ten, she was named the US Rugby Player
of the Decade. In November twentyseventeen, she was inducted into the World
Rugby Hall of Fame, Hall ofFame and Flame. Currently, she has
(02:21):
her own clothing line called The BSkCollective, which myself Naya am an ambassador
for, and she's also a commentatoron the World Rugby seventh series. So
you've probably heard her voice before.She has paved the way for women in
rugby and is constantly taking on newprojects, most recently, Mma, please
welcome Fador night. She's absolutely rightnow, I'm so tired. Now Fedor
(02:49):
are you a plant mom? Youhave plants everywhere in your background. I
am the partner of plant moms.I love I love plants. I've watered
them sometimes or assist in the wateringprocess. M I love talking to them,
I love them, I love beingaround them. All right, cool,
(03:10):
Probably I'm probably not the best.I'm not the best mom, though
you want to so, as youknow, our show is called the Leo
Zan So could you tell us whatyour star sign is? And do you
believe in that sort of stuff likethe star signs? I do. I'm
a cancer. I was born inJuly, so I am yeah, I'm
(03:30):
true. I'm true to every wordof it, or at least at some
point in my life was but yeah, I'm a cancer. I couldn't tell
you what that means. But good, Yeah, now you know cancers.
I think we have a couple onour team. Chris is a cancer,
Chat is a cancer, Jordan's acancer. So we have a good I
(03:53):
think some other people are as wellon a team. Yeah. We're real
emotional, very moody, quite loyal. Home bodies, as I say,
so, Yeah, you know homebodiesthat you travel around and you do so
much. I know, but whenI'm like in my routine, like I
(04:18):
do my thing in the day,and I just want to be at home
as much as possible when I'm nottraining or you know, traveling. Definitely
definitely a homebody in that sense.But yeah, I like I like to
get around a little bit too andget out there and explore the world.
So yeah, yeah, So asI was looking you up, I was
(04:40):
like, holy crap, You've doneso much. And so I think,
for me, my first question foryou, is there anything that you just
can't do? Because it seems likeyou can literally do everything and you're constantly
trying to like get better and doso much more, And I'm just wondering,
is that is that from like ahunger to always be better, to
always do more for others or wheredoes that stem from? Well, I'll
(05:00):
tell you what I can't do.I can't shake this jet lad from Dubai,
that's for sure. It's kicking mybutt. Um. But I mean,
yeah, I've done a lot ofthings. I think it's it's rooted
in an attitude that I acquired orjust a way of thinking that I gained
(05:23):
from the people I grew up with. My grandfather, you know, would
would oftentimes introduce me as his granddaughterFaye, who could do anything. And
when I hear that over and overagain as a matter of fact, a
matter of fact statement, I guessI just believed it. I just felt
it. It wasn't it wasn't himbeing both for a bragging. It was
(05:46):
just some saying I could do anything. Because even as a four year old,
that was you know, on thetractor. You know, I was
watering pigs, intending to livestock.I mean I was doing stuff that you
know, most adults weren't doing atthat time. So I think it started
there and I just never put alimit on it. I just and I
(06:11):
feel that way now, like Icould pretty much do anything I want,
and so for me, it's aboutaim and conquer and then move on to
the next thing. You know,life is short, so make the best
of it. Make the most ofit, absolutely, and let's get into
these rugby rugby accomplishments. You've accomplishedso many amazing things in rugby, things
(06:34):
that I'm sure me and low areaspiring to do in our journey. How
did you get into rugby? Wasit your grandfather who had a lot of
inspiration on you who kind of pushedyou to rugby or was it somebody else
or was it just yourself that kindof found rugby and it took off for
you. No, my grandfather,we well, maybe indirectly my family.
(06:57):
My parents are always pretty supportive ofme and anything I wanted to do.
And so when I did, youknow, come across rugby, which I
did in law school, had noprevious knowledge or introduction to it. Um,
I kind of took it on withthis sort of reckless abandon um and
(07:20):
just didn't even think twice about it. After I started playing, loved it,
fell in love with it, andthat was it. So um,
yeah, it was. It was. It was interesting because I was in
my first year of law school.I didn't really want to be in law
school. I was birded out academicallyand I was just trying to find something
(07:40):
that could you know, create somebalance for me in my life and reconnect
with sport. And so I triedit. I was you know, took
up the invitation to go to atraining and just it was just a media
love affair. So yeah, theprofessional realm come naturally or as you played
(08:05):
you realize, Okay, I wantto go play professionally or did it?
Did it just come about? Andyou were like, why not? Well
it came about right I played.I didn't. I didn't know when I
started playing that there was a USteam. And I spent the summer that
follow the summer following my first Iguess, introduction to the sport um in
(08:31):
New York were interning for the Women'sSports Foundation and that's actually where I discovered
that there was a US team.There were pictures of the nineteen ninety one
World Cup team at the Foundation andI was like, wait, what is
this? This is a this isa silly sport that I just started playing,
and you know the pictures of likeCandy Kathy Kathy floor as Candy or
(08:52):
Sini and that crew from that team. And that was at that point that
I was like, whoa, itwas a US team. Wow, this
is really cool. And when Ireturned to Wisconsin and following my internship in
New York, that's when I sortof set set my attention on just playing
(09:13):
with with some some intention, rightwith with the calls, with the with
the purpose and yeah, I umit was. It was from that point
on that I really um committed myself. Now was it? It wasn't.
I wasn't being paid to play,so technically at that point, you know,
(09:35):
I wasn't professional. Um, butI began to to to train and
to dedicate the time and attention toit. Um that I consider it was
that of a professional caliber. Andthen um, when I started playing sevens
with the US, that's when Iguess you could say, you know,
(09:58):
UM was technically professional. That wasone of the first players, one of
the on the first team at leastthat was actually paid to play, which
dubbed US as professional rugby players underJules McCoy. So UM, you know,
I again I treated the sport likeit was my job, and my
(10:22):
job. I treat it like itwas just something that was there to help,
you know, support my real passion, which was rugby. So yeah,
of all the rugby accomplishments you've had, one of the ones that really
pops out for me is your showingon the show Made that I think was
(10:46):
on MTV, where like they turnedpeople into other professions and for you,
you were teaching people how to bea rugby player. Can you touch on
that experience a little bit. Yeah, that was that. It was two
thousand, it's actually twenty ten,so it was a year of my last
(11:07):
turned out to be my last WorldCup. Yeah, that's correct. And
I went to a little town justoutside of Green Bay, Wisconsin, and
I made a young lady named Sharoninto a rugby player. Um. I
think she was probably the least likelyperson you would expect to play rugby.
(11:28):
She was this just this girly girlwho was not athletic or not an athlete.
Um and you know, up untilthe time she started playing and you
know, wanted to play on thisstate championship boys rugby team. And so
(11:50):
I went out and worked with herfor a couple of months. And it
was a really cool experience for mebecause it actually, um inspired me to
want to get into more coaching,and but yeah, it was it was
coaching her rugby, but really kindof coaching her on uh just you know,
(12:13):
being a trying to be like thegood human being, you know,
a good mom, a good daughter, a good sister, and you know,
it was just it was more aboutthe person, right, It was
less about rugby, um, andmore just about basic time. You know,
(12:33):
time, commitment, commitment to theteam. Just those those basic um
things that we we we we gainedas we grow, right, so as
we grow up. So yeah,it was awesome. It was an awesome
experience for sure. And I wantto say, like nowadays, it's if
(12:54):
an athlete did something like that,like that would be an opportun comunity for
them to blow up in the world, an opportunity for a lot of financial
advantage to come in. Was thatthe situation back then, with that experience
you had with made did your followinggrow? Did you get opportunities to get
sponsorships? What are you what areyou talking about? What do you what's
(13:16):
following? Oh man, No,none of the above. I mean there
was the occasional at an airport,I'd be going through t SA and someone
would ask me. And this wasright after it aired, like that does
see you in television? Um,but at that time, social media wasn't
(13:37):
you know, that was twenty andten. Social media just it wasn't It
wasn't even you know, a fractionof what it is now. Um Uh.
There were certainly no endorsements that cameas a result of that. But
you know, for me, itwas just it was a good experience.
Um. It was a good experienceand a rewarding experience to have a positive
(13:58):
impact and someone's life. And youknow, I wasn't looking for I guess
more than that. It was.It was enough, you know at the
time. But hey, if ithappened, you know now, I'm sure
those that you know, all ofthose things would have transpired as a result.
So you don't know, maybe weshould kick up another maid or something.
(14:22):
So nine and I've had like greatchats in this show, and I
just wanted to get your learn moreabout your life experience and discuss what your
experiences of being a black woman inrugby have been like. Is one of
the kind of starters. I don'treally know what the not the vibe but
the landscape was like when you firststarted, but if you could touch on
that a little bit for us.Well, it was my experiences as a
(14:46):
black woman in rugby were very muchlike my experiences in the over the last
twelve days of being in Dubai.Really yeah, I'll tell you what that
was. It was hello, sir, excuse me, sir, good morning,
sir. I mean constantly called yeasir. I got chased out of
(15:13):
so many women's bathrooms the airport,to the point where I've made my uniform
when I traveled, this T shirtthat Berkeley made because it was a common
issue with a lot of rugby players. It said it had a big sign
like the female bathroom sign. Itsays, yes, I know, it's
the lady like I just it wasjust like a thing. And at that
(15:39):
time, I was granted, I'mone hundred maybe one hundred and fifty five
pounds now, I was about oneeighty five, and you know I didn't
have a neck. I mean,I was quite muscular. So I looked
back at pictures now and I'm like, oh, okay, I understand,
I get it, but a littlebit in a bit more serious. It
(16:00):
was, um, I feel likea lot of the things I experienced as
a black woman in rugby because thereweren't that many uh black women in rugby
when I was you know, whenI first started playing. Um uh it
were no they were no different probablythan anyone else's when I was inside my
rugby bubble, well I was whenI when up my rugby bubble was just
(16:22):
you know with my club. Um, even with um opposition teams, right
with other women's teams everyone, youknow, it was all it was all
good, right. People loved youor hated you, but it wasn't anything
um based on race uh or sexyou know or gender. Um. But
(16:47):
the differences I felt like were thatcame about were um, how I was
officiated, right, like how Iwas wrecked. I was very physical and
you know, at that time,probably one of the most if not the
most physical player, you know,oftentimes on the pitch, and so many
(17:08):
times I would I would pay theprice for that, right I would.
I would oftentimes get penalized for penaltieswhich is not just didn't exist, um,
you know, And it was itbecause I was why you know,
it wasn't because I was a female. I mean I was female, like
everybody else was a female. Um, but it was you know, maybe
(17:33):
I was just being um, andI was singled out for sure. Um,
And I kind of feel for like, I think I watched a lev
and I watch some of the penaltiesthat she gets on the World Series,
and I'm like, are you kidding? You know, Um, I feel
like she's kind of at the samesyndrome sometimes where it's like I was legal
(17:55):
or that was really a minor infraction, and then you know, ten seconds
later, she's she's walking off thefield with a yellow cards. So I
got a lot of that. Therewere times when I would often, you
know, just be stepping on apitch after another teammate has gone off,
a black teammate, um, andI would get you know, penalized or
(18:18):
yellow carded for like a repeated infractionthat I didn't repeat, right, So
um, things like that happened,you know, and but you just you
roll with it, right, Imean, just roll with it. But
you know, it was it wasalso cool to be one of the only
black women and to to to beof the I don't know, the stature
(18:42):
that I was physically and um,the way I played because it you know,
I was unique, you know,and there comes perts with that also,
right, So yeah, that's it'sbeen a it was a mixed bag,
but you know, just go withit. Can't change the color of
(19:03):
my skin, don't want to,but yeah, it's all good. Did
you feel like you could relate tothe people when you were on your team
professionally for sevens being one of theonly black woman or the only black woman.
Did you feel comfortable being yourself withthe personality you have in the lifestyle
you grew up in. Did youfeel at home with your team? I
(19:27):
did? I had there were acouple other black black women on the team.
I was touched on Henry Jess Squawkins, who's now the astronaut the NASA
astronauts. And then am I forgettingsomeone? If I am, please forgive
me lord. But anyway, no, I I've always felt like I've always
(19:51):
been way comfortable in my skin,probably too comfortable, and U nobody always
says like I always have to like, um, take it that step one
or two or three steps too far, And that's a that's a result of
just being comfortable, right, um. And so I've always felt that with
(20:15):
the rugby teams and the people thatI've been around. Um, And so
yeah, it's it's a that wascool. Right, Um, that was
a good thing. And and anyI guess anytime I felt any kind of
insecurity, I guess I, Um, looking back, I know it was
obviously something that eye control that wasme wasn't something that anyone else was imposing
(20:42):
on me, if you will.So, but I've always felt pretty comfortable.
You're in a safety right or wrong, right or wrong, good or
bad. I would say you werewith two other very comfortable people, So
we relate to that a little bit. I'm definitely you know, being being
Our style was in being a littlebit unapologetic for it. So maybe you're
(21:02):
slightly Leo as well. Yeah,maybe what's Leo? What's what? What's
the month? Birthday? All guestsand like part of July? I think,
oh yeah, we're like on thecusp, right, so cancer feeds
right into Leo. So I'd saywe are definitely candid spirits. We'll be
(21:23):
right back after this commercial break.Now. Did an episode on finances and
when you did desire decide to retirefrom rugby, did you feel like all
set up like you you felt comfortable? Because I think that's a fear for
(21:45):
a lot of our girls, islike some of them don't have to breeze
or set up what YO set upthe begin No, I did not feel
set up. Um. The thingis is, you know, for me,
I've I've worked, I've held downmultiple jobs and done multiple things,
(22:10):
all while playing rugby and putting inyou know, long training days. And
um, so I was certainly,Um, I was a hustler and I
knew I know, I know howto feed myself, I know how to
keep a roof over my head.But when I retired, I know I
(22:33):
was by no means financially set oranything like that. Um. And that's
how it is, right, Um, especially when you're playing a sport like
rugby and or women's sport. Forthe most part, in general, you're
not you're not getting a huge salary, so you don't have money to put
(22:56):
away. Everything you you earn youuse because you're you know, it's kind
of like month to month almost.Um, you're not generating like these huge
endorsements. So yeah, it's it'sa it's but that's how most people live
in general, right, that's thelife of most people. That's how our
(23:17):
good old capitalistic um society is structuredand so um. But that's no reason
to really fret. I mean,doesn't determine what you're gonna have and um,
you know how much you're gonna makeum going forward. It's just that's
just an indication of where you areat the moment. So that was cool.
(23:38):
I mean, listen, I've madesome terrible fial decisions in the past.
We can talk about on a wholedifferent podcast. Um. But yeah,
and you know, bounce back fromit. So um, it's it's
(24:00):
cool. It's everything. Is.My encouragement is that I don't think y'all
need to be worrying so much aboutWhen I say, y'all like girls who
are playing and at the professional leveland playing you know, on the US
sevens team, even on the fifteenthteam. You know, just enjoy that.
Enjoy the time you have. Ifyou are just getting by, just
(24:22):
get by. It's enough. Ifit means it will take away you know,
putting time into trying to generate incomehas got to take away from your
um, you know, your performanceon the pitch, then just let it
be. You know, that'll that'sgonna work itself out, the financial bit,
um. But you fortunately also haveways and I'm you know, TikTok
(24:48):
star over here. Um that youcan. You know, you can build,
you have a platform, you haveyou have all these things sort of
at your disposal that you can dosome pretty cre of things to help generate
income and publicity. So also sinkyour teeth into that if you have it.
But I wouldn't sweat the finance piece, you know. Yeah, and
(25:12):
even when you retire, it's it'snot going to all just money is just
not going to be accumulating at yourdoor, you know what I mean.
Yeah, And it's good to hearyou say that because it's a reflection moment
for us to see how far theorganization has come, because now we are
provided with certain resources that allow usto be set up when we do decide
(25:34):
to retire, and I think it'sonly going to get there. So I
think that's exactly Yeah, really amazingto hear and to reflect on. And
I think speaking on that, mynext question wouldn't be going from your experience
as a player to now being acommentator kind of viewing from the outside end.
Do you think the sport has changedmuch since you were playing? Oh
(25:56):
my god, yeah a lot.I mean from on the field, the
display on the field, you know, it's changed quite a bit the game
is faster in many ways. Um, but yeah, just in terms of
the support mechanisms that have been putin place to help you know, players
(26:19):
with the transition from playing to retirement, I think those things have been pretty
incredible. But yeah, it's certainlythere's been you know a lot of changes
having you know, um philanthropic groupslike the Golden Eagles that have provided some
stuff like that's awesome. Um,I didn't have the Golden Eagles, but
(26:41):
I had a crew of people I'llcall them out because they were so good
to me. I had like theSky Drew one of my coaches, Drew
Faultley, you know, M PaulHaga, even the US Rugby Foundation US
Rugby. Yeah, they like allof these organizations, and I know I'm
missing out on some names, butthere are a number of people who were
(27:04):
very philanthropic and charitable to my causeand believe in me as a player.
It was great. Parsons was anotherone who would oftentimes just give me money
right so and support, you know, and it allowed me to be able
to play and travel and do thethings, um that I wanted to do
(27:26):
in the sport. And so althoughit wasn't I know, everybody didn't experience
that, but for me personally,it was awesome to have that support.
And so I know how much ithow important it is UM that you all
have that UM, that support.And it's not again, it's just not
just financial. It's it's a lotof it's a lot of different things,
(27:48):
but it's so it's so crucial toyour comfort and your ability to really anchor
down and do what you're doing UMand and set you up so that when
you do spring board off of thisyou know platform and onto the next that
you have a you have somewhat ofa foundation. And that's cool. It's
huge for sure. And you're alsoyou're not really just a rugby player anymore.
(28:14):
You're now getting into So you've donebob sled Trospit and you're getting into
MMA. Now what made you likeI want to go beat somebody up?
Like what? Why? After that? Don't you don't you feel that waiver?
Don't you feel that waiver? More? You wait? Sometimes I guess
a lie? You know all theUM? Yeah, I you know.
(28:41):
For me again, it was itwas like, okay, I knew that
I was the road had sort ofended for me for as a rugby player
UM at the at that time,I also felt very very deep down that
I wasn't done as an athlete.I felt like that I had so much
more that was untapped UM. AndI was frustrated a bit in my rugby
(29:04):
career because I felt like I coulddo so much more, but I didn't
quite know. I didn't have therecipe of how to like create that.
And at the time and so UM, you know, I I was.
I was always asked are you afighter? You fight UM? And then
(29:27):
I was on vacation and someone askedme like, are you like a man
of Nunas? And I'm like,are you like going crack? Like?
It wasn't no, I don't UM. And you know, I was chatting
it over with my partner and youknow, it was like, yo,
(29:47):
you should she said you should dothat. You should. Actually, I
think you shouldn't really consider MMA becauseI feel like it's something that you would
actually do well at UM and itwould and take you that long to get
to, you know, a moderatelyhigh level. And I was all about
it because I was at the time. I you know, I've been retired
(30:08):
for two years. I was workingout, but it wasn't like it just
wasn't the same, right, LikeI do better and feel like if I'm
training for something that is for mewhere I can really thrive. And so
I was like, are you sureyou're okay with this? Like you your
body in like I'm doing this becauseif I do it, I'm doing it
(30:30):
in one hundred percent. So UMhad the full support, came back home
from vacation and just started training rightaway. And you know, everybody obviously,
like initially everybody that walks into anMMA jam or into a you know
it was a BJJ academy, butinto an MMA program, they're like they're
(30:53):
they're they're saying, hey, Iwant to fight. So I walk in.
I don't give really any background ofwhat I've done because I didn't want
to walk in sort of with thatchip on my shoulder. I walked in
and I'm like, yeah, Iwant to fight. And you know,
they hear that like twenty times aday. So my coach was like,
(31:15):
okay, cool, and he putme into this octagon after a few training
sessions. He put me in withlike a black belt. She was a
brown bed at the time, andshe's actually one of my training partners now
and I work with her for Brazilianjiu jitsu. She's a black belt now.
But he put me in the octagonwith her and two other women who
(31:37):
have been training for you know,several years, and I was at that
point a month in and he waslike, you say, you say you
want to fight. I'm like,yeah, yeah, I want to fight.
So he puts me in for likea minute with each of them and
tells them to basically go at itwith me, right, And we weren't.
We weren't like striking. We werejust doing grappling from stand up,
(32:02):
and I like, you know,hit like that nitro button that I always
hit in Rugby where I just turnedinto like a monster, and it was
just like he had to stop it. He was like, oh wait,
He's like, whoa, whoa,you want your training partners to come back
to borrow so um that you know, it was, I think that's how
(32:27):
it started, right I was.I was really I played my entire career,
I feel like Rugby with the exceptionI made the last year on emotion
and hitting that nitro, that nitro, you know, that nitro button and
just going crazy. But oftentimes itleft me quite tired, right, I
(32:50):
think there's only so much ATP yourbody can like cycle through UM and then
you're dead. And so that thatwas a really defining moment for me.
But it was it was a momentwhere I was like, I know that,
you know, I do want tofight, but I also know that
(33:12):
I want to fight for different reasonsthan I would played rugby. I want
to I want to be a technicallysavvy athlete who UM is known for,
you know how technically like UM superiorI am, And so yeah, I
do. I like, I likethe idea of fighting. I woke up
(33:35):
and I wanted to just do somethingthat was going to help me sort of
develop to my greatest potential as anathlete and continue that saga if you will.
But now, no, now lookingback, it's I wanted to be
(33:55):
able. I want to be ableto do that UM from a place that
is not root in any motion,but it is rooted in technique UM and
and just knowledge. So well,Nia is always my grappling partner before games,
and Nia, I think you mighthave a career. She is very
good at grappling, and like,yeah she is, well, you know,
(34:21):
she's so powerful, And then Ican't, I cannot get beat her
at all. She just gets inthis mode and then she just can't get
I can't think about it. Itold her, I told her I was
a coacher. She after she retires. You know, I just don't want
to get hit, you know,like this is my prize possession, right,
(34:42):
You don't have to get hit straighton. You just you're gonna get
hit in the face, yea.And when you first get hit in the
face, you're gonna be so readyto like go back at something. That's
what That's what you gotta like tame. You gotta tame that instinct. So
yeah, it's very natural. There'sno doubt you're a pure athlete. But
let's get into some of your venturesoutside of rugby. There's a list of
(35:07):
things, but one of the mainthings I want to talk about is your
clothing collection. PSK, can yougive us a little insight on where the
idea of this clothing collection came aboutand what you have planned for the future
for this collection. Well, Um, having been a lifelong athlete, I've
(35:30):
always had to deal with what I'msure both of you have to deal with
fitting clothes. Maybe not, butgrowing up, you know, back when
we rode horses and buggies to themall. I just struggled with finding clothes
(35:51):
that would fit me, even asa kid. And even if they fit
they would fit me, you know, they weren't the proper fit for me.
They I just I was quite androgynousas a child, and so clothes
are very girls clothes are very girly, and you know, there was no
such thing as girls buying boys clothes. I mean, that wasn't happening.
(36:15):
So I just found it very difficultto find clothes that would fit man.
And I started talking to other athletesas I got older, and many of
them, male and female, wouldhave the same issue of actually closed physically
fitting their bodies and you know,we fit their legs and would fit their
(36:36):
waiste or vice versa. So um. You know, I determined very early
on that I wanted to create aclothing line and was introduced to my current
business partner, Zara Biharre. Wesat down and chatted a little bit about
(37:00):
what my vision was in a clothingline. She was actually from Cheek was
over the pedigree of clothing makers.Clothes makers. Her family had been in
the business for you know, twentytwenty five plus years and so they were
they were just really ingrained in it. But we had a very similar vision
that we wanted to create this brand, but this you know anchored in um
(37:28):
charity, really uh anchored and givingback to organizations and nonprofits that were out
kind of doing that front line workon the social justice front. And you
know right now we are well we'recurrently partnered with the Women's Sports Foundation and
the Fight for Women's Equity, equalPay, but we're not limited to just
(37:52):
that cause. And so um yeah, that's really how the clothing line came
about. And we decided we werepre pre pandemic, you know, we'd
come together and we had this visionof when we wanted to launch the clothing
line, and once the pandemic hit, we decided we were going to go
(38:13):
forward with our plans and launch itand during the pandemic because we felt like
although there was just a lot goingon with COVID, there was a lot
of going on in our country,in our world. It was a very
sort of it was tough time,and we wanted to bring something that was
positive to the forefront through through apparel, and so we did and being a
(38:40):
brand ambassador for PSK, it hasbeen an amazing experience to be a part
of an organization, a brand thatwants to help different social aspects in the
world, but also create quality andvariety and clothing. I can speak on
it and say, like for myselfand one of my best friend's Jazzy,
we both wear PSK and we bothdressed completely different and to be able to
(39:05):
go to the same website and findthings that are comfortable and esthetically pleasing for
the both of us. I thinkthat's a prime example of what you can
get from PSK. So, ifyou are somebody who has struggled with finding
clothing that you can feel comfortable inbut also look good and feel good in,
PSK is the company that you wantto invest in. PSK is the
(39:29):
company that you want to go tofor yourself, for your friends, for
your family. So if if youare interested in that, please check out
her website. You can also goto my Instagram and find a lot of
posts that have PSK tag with alot of the amazing clothes that they offer.
Yeah, well, thank you forthat plub that was awesome. But
(39:51):
they also they can also get PSKCollective Apparel and KOLs dot com, Aalmart
dot com target Marketplace and most recentlyJ J. C penney dot com.
So yeah, yeah, yeah,and we will be breaking into the Asian
(40:12):
market early on twenty twenty two,UM, so proud of that, and
then the Canadian market as well,UM in early twenty twenty two. So
yeah, we we We're excited forthe growth. We appreciate the support.
And just know too that fifteen percentof all net net profit goes to UH
(40:37):
the Women's Sports Foundation, so amazing. UM. For this season finale,
we are going to end our cubquestions with questions that are directly for Phaedra.
I know a lot of the timesthe questions are for me and low,
but for this last episode of thisseason, we're going to have four
questions for Phaedre. So the firstquestion, keep it appropriate. So the
(41:00):
first question we have for you iswhat is your favorite thing to do outside
of work? Oh? So workfor me now is the clothing line and
training. UM. Honestly, rightnow that we're in December and November,
it's I like watching Hallmark Christmas musicmovies. UM. I like listening to
(41:23):
to um audiobooks. I'm listening toLife was It Lifespan? Um right now?
But yeah, I'm like, I'ma I'm a real Hallmark fan.
Seriously, I watched the movie onI watched the Hallmark movie on the way
back from Dubai on the plane andI was crying. It was crazy big
(41:45):
big city girl meets small town bedor something like that. Or I think
this one was what was it?No? This one was about was it
forever Christmas? Was it um?Or this woman was that she had come
back to her dad, her grandfather'sChristmas store in Vermont, and was gonna
(42:08):
sell it. I had but classicawesome, the same storyline as everyone every
other one. But you know,it's all good. Those are great feel
good movies. So the second questionis what was your favorite part about filming
with Halle Berry? Man, favoritepart was put you in the face.
(42:34):
Yo. What you didn't see washow she kicked my inner thigh and had
it like bruise, Yo, bruise. They should have put my inner thigh
right under bruise as like the titlegraphic right because she lit my enter tha
so bad. Nah. But thecool on the real the coolest thing was,
(42:55):
I mean I grew up right like, I mean, I grew up
like loving Halle Berry. Um.Everybody in my house, like she was
like one of the only black actressesat that level, and so, um,
you know, meeting her and gettinginto like work with her and see
(43:16):
her like almost on my daily basiswas awesome. And just understanding and realizing
that, you know, she's justas down to earth as any of us
was was really cool and so thatI think was my favorite thing. Um.
(43:37):
You know, it's also it's ait's a bragging thing, right I
say, like, oh, myfriend is Halle Berry like so, but
yeah, it was cool. Itwas cool. Um getting to also like
do a movie, um that's themedaround what I do every day, that
(43:58):
was awesome. And she brought infighters. She brought in like Bridget my
training partner. Um, you know, Gabby Garcia was in that. Gaby
Garcia is a very high level uligrappler. Um. Obviously Valentina Chefchenko was
in it. But all those allthose people that were in it, like
(44:20):
my coaches, they're real, thisis what they do, this is what
we do. So the authenticity ofthat was like second to none, and
so I think that was one ofthe things I really appreciated about the movie.
It was real. If you haven'twatched it yet, make sure you
go check out Bruised on Netflix soyou can see Padre and her stardom.
(44:45):
FDA, what was the best thingrugby has taught you? Wow? Best
thing that rugby's taught me? Iprobably I mean humility and I think I
brought to it, but really tookit to another level for me. Um
and just the importance, just theimportance of the team, teammates support,
(45:10):
what support really is um and sothose those are like I think, core
things that I gained from the sport, and I went into it knowing what
they were, but it just itredefined them. It's such a um an
(45:30):
incredible way. So yeah, andthen last thing, what's your next goal?
I my next goal is to turnpro in MMA. Um, it's
not my last goal, but it'smy next goal in MMA, just to
(45:51):
go pro. So working on doingthat, hopefully by twenty twenty three.
Uh if twenty twenty two rolls out, we don't have another shutdown and you
know, craziness with this COVID pandemicstuff, But that's the goal, to
turn pro. I'll be turning throat the age of possibly forty eight,
(46:14):
forty nines. So yeah, that'sthat's as a goal. That's an epic
goal for me. We should doanother podcast where yes, so listen to
like what you eat during the daynow you stay healthy? Because I think
I need that. I remember goingto a vegan restaurant with her and I
(46:35):
yeah in discussion, shut up,you wouldn't eat nothing. You wouldn't eat
Well, I think you love it. Why what what didn't you like about
it? I got vegan nachos.Well, there you go. I didn't
Yeah, maybe I didn't pick theright item. We should have gotten the
(46:57):
topics, maybe the tacos. ButAbby likes the plice a lot. Well,
you like it when I you knowwhat, when I come back up
to San Diego, well at low, I owe you dinner. Butcher in
your name on all these a lot? Man, so good, so good.
(47:25):
So I'll treat you some good foodmy favorite. Well yeah, do
you like I eat anything? Soyeah, I mean I was not my
first choice, but I found some. I mean, he's are getting crafty,
I will say, right right,yeah, it's off the chain.
So anyway, thank you so somuch for coming on with us and having
(47:47):
this chat. You've you've really beena pioneer and you're just a legending the
rugby game, and I mean,thank you so much for commentating our games
and being just such a strong womanfor all of us to look up too.
So thank you. Both of youare like super strong. I mean
you carry you carry the team UMin many ways, and so I'm just
(48:09):
I'm flattered to be here, appreciateyou thinking of man Um. Yeah,
great that you guys are doing this, So thank you, no problem.
We'll definitely be supporting you and yourprofessional ventures with MMA. So make sure
we get those front seat tickets wheneverthose around. Can we being girls girls?
(48:30):
Yeah, we got to lay ataplease, I'll pass that on.
Awesome. Thank you all right,guys, So this is the season finale,
so make sure to subscribe to Leo'sDown on your podcast app and follow
(48:50):
at with Sports on all social mediaplatforms from more great podcasts on women's sports.
Show notes are on our webpage atwisports dot com listen tablios Den.
The challenge for this last season finaleepisode is to go re listen to all
the leos Din episodes and comment onour latest picture on our Leo's Din Instagram
page which episode was your favorite?Thank you guys so much for tuning in.
(49:15):
We are going to take a breakfor now for the holidays, but
be sure to follow at Leo's Din, Underscore with Sports on Instagram and stay
tuned for news of season three comingyour way in twenty twenty two. Whether
you came to the rugby and stayfor the Shenangians, we hope you joined
us next time in the leos Den. Bye Peas Out.
Hi everybody, and welcome to seasontwo, Episode six of the Leos.
Then my name's Nice Happer, andmy fun fact is that my mom let
me get permanent hair streaks in fourthgrade. You might need to explain what
permanent hairstreaks to me, harror.Is that like when they you color your
hair. Yeah, like when youput the cap on and then you pull
out the pieces of hair and puton the hair color and then you wash
(00:27):
it out and you got streets andyou were like, mom, this is
a great idea. I mean,it looks so good with this. Yeah.
My teachers like, why would yourmom ever lets you get permanent It
was like honey blonde or something,so it was crazy. I'd like to
see pictures next time. My guys, my name's a Lotta mar And my
fun fact is that we just playeddue by sevens and I just played five
(00:49):
fourteen minute games, which really isn'tme. I don't think it's my brand.
I don't know if I want tokeep doing that. But as you
know, we're two Leos who loveto hear themselves talk, So of course
we'll start with the horse. Let'sgo. Do you often act as if
the world is static and nothing everchanges. Sometimes you may think that humankind
is a certain way, the worldis a certain way, and so this
(01:10):
is what you're going to do.Have you ever heard of evolution? The
human race is constantly evolving, andso is the world look around. That
is an interesting one, that's adeep one. Yeah. I don't feel
like we're static. I feel likewe know things change. We always want
to like do something else or getbetter. And I think even with like
traveling, like that's so much goingon. So like with me, like
(01:34):
I get to a point where I'mlooking forward to just sitting down and things
being the same for a little while, whether it's my environment or my schedule.
Yeah. True, Okay, guys. So on this finale episode,
we have a special guest for you, guys. Today we will be interviewing
not only a USA rugby legend,but just a rugby legend in general.
(01:57):
She has made three appearances in theRugby World Cup and was selected as a
top player in the world in herposition in two thousand and two and two
thousand and six. In twenty ten, she was named the US Rugby Player
of the Decade. In November twentyseventeen, she was inducted into the World
Rugby Hall of Fame, Hall ofFame and Flame. Currently, she has
(02:21):
her own clothing line called The BSkCollective, which myself Naya am an ambassador
for, and she's also a commentatoron the World Rugby seventh series. So
you've probably heard her voice before.She has paved the way for women in
rugby and is constantly taking on newprojects, most recently, Mma, please
welcome Fador night. She's absolutely rightnow, I'm so tired. Now Fedor
(02:49):
are you a plant mom? Youhave plants everywhere in your background. I
am the partner of plant moms.I love I love plants. I've watered
them sometimes or assist in the wateringprocess. M I love talking to them,
I love them, I love beingaround them. All right, cool,
(03:10):
Probably I'm probably not the best.I'm not the best mom, though
you want to so, as youknow, our show is called the Leo
Zan So could you tell us whatyour star sign is? And do you
believe in that sort of stuff likethe star signs? I do. I'm
a cancer. I was born inJuly, so I am yeah, I'm
(03:30):
true. I'm true to every wordof it, or at least at some
point in my life was but yeah, I'm a cancer. I couldn't tell
you what that means. But good, Yeah, now you know cancers.
I think we have a couple onour team. Chris is a cancer,
Chat is a cancer, Jordan's acancer. So we have a good I
(03:53):
think some other people are as wellon a team. Yeah. We're real
emotional, very moody, quite loyal. Home bodies, as I say,
so, Yeah, you know homebodiesthat you travel around and you do so
much. I know, but whenI'm like in my routine, like I
(04:18):
do my thing in the day,and I just want to be at home
as much as possible when I'm nottraining or you know, traveling. Definitely
definitely a homebody in that sense.But yeah, I like I like to
get around a little bit too andget out there and explore the world.
So yeah, yeah, So asI was looking you up, I was
(04:40):
like, holy crap, You've doneso much. And so I think,
for me, my first question foryou, is there anything that you just
can't do? Because it seems likeyou can literally do everything and you're constantly
trying to like get better and doso much more, And I'm just wondering,
is that is that from like ahunger to always be better, to
always do more for others or wheredoes that stem from? Well, I'll
(05:00):
tell you what I can't do.I can't shake this jet lad from Dubai,
that's for sure. It's kicking mybutt. Um. But I mean,
yeah, I've done a lot ofthings. I think it's it's rooted
in an attitude that I acquired orjust a way of thinking that I gained
(05:23):
from the people I grew up with. My grandfather, you know, would
would oftentimes introduce me as his granddaughterFaye, who could do anything. And
when I hear that over and overagain as a matter of fact, a
matter of fact statement, I guessI just believed it. I just felt
it. It wasn't it wasn't himbeing both for a bragging. It was
(05:46):
just some saying I could do anything. Because even as a four year old,
that was you know, on thetractor. You know, I was
watering pigs, intending to livestock.I mean I was doing stuff that you
know, most adults weren't doing atthat time. So I think it started
there and I just never put alimit on it. I just and I
(06:11):
feel that way now, like Icould pretty much do anything I want,
and so for me, it's aboutaim and conquer and then move on to
the next thing. You know,life is short, so make the best
of it. Make the most ofit, absolutely, and let's get into
these rugby rugby accomplishments. You've accomplishedso many amazing things in rugby, things
(06:34):
that I'm sure me and low areaspiring to do in our journey. How
did you get into rugby? Wasit your grandfather who had a lot of
inspiration on you who kind of pushedyou to rugby or was it somebody else
or was it just yourself that kindof found rugby and it took off for
you. No, my grandfather,we well, maybe indirectly my family.
(06:57):
My parents are always pretty supportive ofme and anything I wanted to do.
And so when I did, youknow, come across rugby, which I
did in law school, had noprevious knowledge or introduction to it. Um,
I kind of took it on withthis sort of reckless abandon um and
(07:20):
just didn't even think twice about it. After I started playing, loved it,
fell in love with it, andthat was it. So um,
yeah, it was. It was. It was interesting because I was in
my first year of law school.I didn't really want to be in law
school. I was birded out academicallyand I was just trying to find something
(07:40):
that could you know, create somebalance for me in my life and reconnect
with sport. And so I triedit. I was you know, took
up the invitation to go to atraining and just it was just a media
love affair. So yeah, theprofessional realm come naturally or as you played
(08:05):
you realize, Okay, I wantto go play professionally or did it?
Did it just come about? Andyou were like, why not? Well
it came about right I played.I didn't. I didn't know when I
started playing that there was a USteam. And I spent the summer that
follow the summer following my first Iguess, introduction to the sport um in
(08:31):
New York were interning for the Women'sSports Foundation and that's actually where I discovered
that there was a US team.There were pictures of the nineteen ninety one
World Cup team at the Foundation andI was like, wait, what is
this? This is a this isa silly sport that I just started playing,
and you know the pictures of likeCandy Kathy Kathy floor as Candy or
(08:52):
Sini and that crew from that team. And that was at that point that
I was like, whoa, itwas a US team. Wow, this
is really cool. And when Ireturned to Wisconsin and following my internship in
New York, that's when I sortof set set my attention on just playing
(09:13):
with with some some intention, rightwith with the calls, with the with
the purpose and yeah, I umit was. It was from that point
on that I really um committed myself. Now was it? It wasn't.
I wasn't being paid to play,so technically at that point, you know,
(09:35):
I wasn't professional. Um, butI began to to to train and
to dedicate the time and attention toit. Um that I consider it was
that of a professional caliber. Andthen um, when I started playing sevens
with the US, that's when Iguess you could say, you know,
(09:58):
UM was technically professional. That wasone of the first players, one of
the on the first team at leastthat was actually paid to play, which
dubbed US as professional rugby players underJules McCoy. So UM, you know,
I again I treated the sport likeit was my job, and my
(10:22):
job. I treat it like itwas just something that was there to help,
you know, support my real passion, which was rugby. So yeah,
of all the rugby accomplishments you've had, one of the ones that really
pops out for me is your showingon the show Made that I think was
(10:46):
on MTV, where like they turnedpeople into other professions and for you,
you were teaching people how to bea rugby player. Can you touch on
that experience a little bit. Yeah, that was that. It was two
thousand, it's actually twenty ten,so it was a year of my last
(11:07):
turned out to be my last WorldCup. Yeah, that's correct. And
I went to a little town justoutside of Green Bay, Wisconsin, and
I made a young lady named Sharoninto a rugby player. Um. I
think she was probably the least likelyperson you would expect to play rugby.
(11:28):
She was this just this girly girlwho was not athletic or not an athlete.
Um and you know, up untilthe time she started playing and you
know, wanted to play on thisstate championship boys rugby team. And so
(11:50):
I went out and worked with herfor a couple of months. And it
was a really cool experience for mebecause it actually, um inspired me to
want to get into more coaching,and but yeah, it was it was
coaching her rugby, but really kindof coaching her on uh just you know,
(12:13):
being a trying to be like thegood human being, you know,
a good mom, a good daughter, a good sister, and you know,
it was just it was more aboutthe person, right, It was
less about rugby, um, andmore just about basic time. You know,
(12:33):
time, commitment, commitment to theteam. Just those those basic um
things that we we we we gainedas we grow, right, so as
we grow up. So yeah,it was awesome. It was an awesome
experience for sure. And I wantto say, like nowadays, it's if
(12:54):
an athlete did something like that,like that would be an opportun comunity for
them to blow up in the world, an opportunity for a lot of financial
advantage to come in. Was thatthe situation back then, with that experience
you had with made did your followinggrow? Did you get opportunities to get
sponsorships? What are you what areyou talking about? What do you what's
(13:16):
following? Oh man, No,none of the above. I mean there
was the occasional at an airport,I'd be going through t SA and someone
would ask me. And this wasright after it aired, like that does
see you in television? Um,but at that time, social media wasn't
(13:37):
you know, that was twenty andten. Social media just it wasn't It
wasn't even you know, a fractionof what it is now. Um Uh.
There were certainly no endorsements that cameas a result of that. But
you know, for me, itwas just it was a good experience.
Um. It was a good experienceand a rewarding experience to have a positive
(13:58):
impact and someone's life. And youknow, I wasn't looking for I guess
more than that. It was.It was enough, you know at the
time. But hey, if ithappened, you know now, I'm sure
those that you know, all ofthose things would have transpired as a result.
So you don't know, maybe weshould kick up another maid or something.
(14:22):
So nine and I've had like greatchats in this show, and I
just wanted to get your learn moreabout your life experience and discuss what your
experiences of being a black woman inrugby have been like. Is one of
the kind of starters. I don'treally know what the not the vibe but
the landscape was like when you firststarted, but if you could touch on
that a little bit for us.Well, it was my experiences as a
(14:46):
black woman in rugby were very muchlike my experiences in the over the last
twelve days of being in Dubai.Really yeah, I'll tell you what that
was. It was hello, sir, excuse me, sir, good morning,
sir. I mean constantly called yeasir. I got chased out of
(15:13):
so many women's bathrooms the airport,to the point where I've made my uniform
when I traveled, this T shirtthat Berkeley made because it was a common
issue with a lot of rugby players. It said it had a big sign
like the female bathroom sign. Itsays, yes, I know, it's
the lady like I just it wasjust like a thing. And at that
(15:39):
time, I was granted, I'mone hundred maybe one hundred and fifty five
pounds now, I was about oneeighty five, and you know I didn't
have a neck. I mean,I was quite muscular. So I looked
back at pictures now and I'm like, oh, okay, I understand,
I get it, but a littlebit in a bit more serious. It
(16:00):
was, um, I feel likea lot of the things I experienced as
a black woman in rugby because thereweren't that many uh black women in rugby
when I was you know, whenI first started playing. Um uh it
were no they were no different probablythan anyone else's when I was inside my
rugby bubble, well I was whenI when up my rugby bubble was just
(16:22):
you know with my club. Um, even with um opposition teams, right
with other women's teams everyone, youknow, it was all it was all
good, right. People loved youor hated you, but it wasn't anything
um based on race uh or sexyou know or gender. Um. But
(16:47):
the differences I felt like were thatcame about were um, how I was
officiated, right, like how Iwas wrecked. I was very physical and
you know, at that time,probably one of the most if not the
most physical player, you know,oftentimes on the pitch, and so many
(17:08):
times I would I would pay theprice for that, right I would.
I would oftentimes get penalized for penaltieswhich is not just didn't exist, um,
you know, And it was itbecause I was why you know,
it wasn't because I was a female. I mean I was female, like
everybody else was a female. Um, but it was you know, maybe
(17:33):
I was just being um, andI was singled out for sure. Um,
And I kind of feel for like, I think I watched a lev
and I watch some of the penaltiesthat she gets on the World Series,
and I'm like, are you kidding? You know, Um, I feel
like she's kind of at the samesyndrome sometimes where it's like I was legal
(17:55):
or that was really a minor infraction, and then you know, ten seconds
later, she's she's walking off thefield with a yellow cards. So I
got a lot of that. Therewere times when I would often, you
know, just be stepping on apitch after another teammate has gone off,
a black teammate, um, andI would get you know, penalized or
(18:18):
yellow carded for like a repeated infractionthat I didn't repeat, right, So
um, things like that happened,you know, and but you just you
roll with it, right, Imean, just roll with it. But
you know, it was it wasalso cool to be one of the only
black women and to to to beof the I don't know, the stature
(18:42):
that I was physically and um,the way I played because it you know,
I was unique, you know,and there comes perts with that also,
right, So yeah, that's it'sbeen a it was a mixed bag,
but you know, just go withit. Can't change the color of
(19:03):
my skin, don't want to,but yeah, it's all good. Did
you feel like you could relate tothe people when you were on your team
professionally for sevens being one of theonly black woman or the only black woman.
Did you feel comfortable being yourself withthe personality you have in the lifestyle
you grew up in. Did youfeel at home with your team? I
(19:27):
did? I had there were acouple other black black women on the team.
I was touched on Henry Jess Squawkins, who's now the astronaut the NASA
astronauts. And then am I forgettingsomeone? If I am, please forgive
me lord. But anyway, no, I I've always felt like I've always
(19:51):
been way comfortable in my skin,probably too comfortable, and U nobody always
says like I always have to like, um, take it that step one
or two or three steps too far, And that's a that's a result of
just being comfortable, right, um. And so I've always felt that with
(20:15):
the rugby teams and the people thatI've been around. Um, And so
yeah, it's it's a that wascool. Right, Um, that was
a good thing. And and anyI guess anytime I felt any kind of
insecurity, I guess I, Um, looking back, I know it was
obviously something that eye control that wasme wasn't something that anyone else was imposing
(20:42):
on me, if you will.So, but I've always felt pretty comfortable.
You're in a safety right or wrong, right or wrong, good or
bad. I would say you werewith two other very comfortable people, So
we relate to that a little bit. I'm definitely you know, being being
Our style was in being a littlebit unapologetic for it. So maybe you're
(21:02):
slightly Leo as well. Yeah,maybe what's Leo? What's what? What's
the month? Birthday? All guestsand like part of July? I think,
oh yeah, we're like on thecusp, right, so cancer feeds
right into Leo. So I'd saywe are definitely candid spirits. We'll be
(21:23):
right back after this commercial break.Now. Did an episode on finances and
when you did desire decide to retirefrom rugby, did you feel like all
set up like you you felt comfortable? Because I think that's a fear for
(21:45):
a lot of our girls, islike some of them don't have to breeze
or set up what YO set upthe begin No, I did not feel
set up. Um. The thingis is, you know, for me,
I've I've worked, I've held downmultiple jobs and done multiple things,
(22:10):
all while playing rugby and putting inyou know, long training days. And
um, so I was certainly,Um, I was a hustler and I
knew I know, I know howto feed myself, I know how to
keep a roof over my head.But when I retired, I know I
(22:33):
was by no means financially set oranything like that. Um. And that's
how it is, right, Um, especially when you're playing a sport like
rugby and or women's sport. Forthe most part, in general, you're
not you're not getting a huge salary, so you don't have money to put
(22:56):
away. Everything you you earn youuse because you're you know, it's kind
of like month to month almost.Um, you're not generating like these huge
endorsements. So yeah, it's it'sa it's but that's how most people live
in general, right, that's thelife of most people. That's how our
(23:17):
good old capitalistic um society is structuredand so um. But that's no reason
to really fret. I mean,doesn't determine what you're gonna have and um,
you know how much you're gonna makeum going forward. It's just that's
just an indication of where you areat the moment. So that was cool.
(23:38):
I mean, listen, I've madesome terrible fial decisions in the past.
We can talk about on a wholedifferent podcast. Um. But yeah,
and you know, bounce back fromit. So um, it's it's
(24:00):
cool. It's everything. Is.My encouragement is that I don't think y'all
need to be worrying so much aboutWhen I say, y'all like girls who
are playing and at the professional leveland playing you know, on the US
sevens team, even on the fifteenthteam. You know, just enjoy that.
Enjoy the time you have. Ifyou are just getting by, just
(24:22):
get by. It's enough. Ifit means it will take away you know,
putting time into trying to generate incomehas got to take away from your
um, you know, your performanceon the pitch, then just let it
be. You know, that'll that'sgonna work itself out, the financial bit,
um. But you fortunately also haveways and I'm you know, TikTok
(24:48):
star over here. Um that youcan. You know, you can build,
you have a platform, you haveyou have all these things sort of
at your disposal that you can dosome pretty cre of things to help generate
income and publicity. So also sinkyour teeth into that if you have it.
But I wouldn't sweat the finance piece, you know. Yeah, and
(25:12):
even when you retire, it's it'snot going to all just money is just
not going to be accumulating at yourdoor, you know what I mean.
Yeah, And it's good to hearyou say that because it's a reflection moment
for us to see how far theorganization has come, because now we are
provided with certain resources that allow usto be set up when we do decide
(25:34):
to retire, and I think it'sonly going to get there. So I
think that's exactly Yeah, really amazingto hear and to reflect on. And
I think speaking on that, mynext question wouldn't be going from your experience
as a player to now being acommentator kind of viewing from the outside end.
Do you think the sport has changedmuch since you were playing? Oh
(25:56):
my god, yeah a lot.I mean from on the field, the
display on the field, you know, it's changed quite a bit the game
is faster in many ways. Um, but yeah, just in terms of
the support mechanisms that have been putin place to help you know, players
(26:19):
with the transition from playing to retirement, I think those things have been pretty
incredible. But yeah, it's certainlythere's been you know a lot of changes
having you know, um philanthropic groupslike the Golden Eagles that have provided some
stuff like that's awesome. Um,I didn't have the Golden Eagles, but
(26:41):
I had a crew of people I'llcall them out because they were so good
to me. I had like theSky Drew one of my coaches, Drew
Faultley, you know, M PaulHaga, even the US Rugby Foundation US
Rugby. Yeah, they like allof these organizations, and I know I'm
missing out on some names, butthere are a number of people who were
(27:04):
very philanthropic and charitable to my causeand believe in me as a player.
It was great. Parsons was anotherone who would oftentimes just give me money
right so and support, you know, and it allowed me to be able
to play and travel and do thethings, um that I wanted to do
(27:26):
in the sport. And so althoughit wasn't I know, everybody didn't experience
that, but for me personally,it was awesome to have that support.
And so I know how much ithow important it is UM that you all
have that UM, that support.And it's not again, it's just not
just financial. It's it's a lotof it's a lot of different things,
(27:48):
but it's so it's so crucial toyour comfort and your ability to really anchor
down and do what you're doing UMand and set you up so that when
you do spring board off of thisyou know platform and onto the next that
you have a you have somewhat ofa foundation. And that's cool. It's
huge for sure. And you're alsoyou're not really just a rugby player anymore.
(28:14):
You're now getting into So you've donebob sled Trospit and you're getting into
MMA. Now what made you likeI want to go beat somebody up?
Like what? Why? After that? Don't you don't you feel that waiver?
Don't you feel that waiver? More? You wait? Sometimes I guess
a lie? You know all theUM? Yeah, I you know.
(28:41):
For me again, it was itwas like, okay, I knew that
I was the road had sort ofended for me for as a rugby player
UM at the at that time,I also felt very very deep down that
I wasn't done as an athlete.I felt like that I had so much
more that was untapped UM. AndI was frustrated a bit in my rugby
(29:04):
career because I felt like I coulddo so much more, but I didn't
quite know. I didn't have therecipe of how to like create that.
And at the time and so UM, you know, I I was.
I was always asked are you afighter? You fight UM? And then
(29:27):
I was on vacation and someone askedme like, are you like a man
of Nunas? And I'm like,are you like going crack? Like?
It wasn't no, I don't UM. And you know, I was chatting
it over with my partner and youknow, it was like, yo,
(29:47):
you should she said you should dothat. You should. Actually, I
think you shouldn't really consider MMA becauseI feel like it's something that you would
actually do well at UM and itwould and take you that long to get
to, you know, a moderatelyhigh level. And I was all about
it because I was at the time. I you know, I've been retired
(30:08):
for two years. I was workingout, but it wasn't like it just
wasn't the same, right, LikeI do better and feel like if I'm
training for something that is for mewhere I can really thrive. And so
I was like, are you sureyou're okay with this? Like you your
body in like I'm doing this becauseif I do it, I'm doing it
(30:30):
in one hundred percent. So UMhad the full support, came back home
from vacation and just started training rightaway. And you know, everybody obviously,
like initially everybody that walks into anMMA jam or into a you know
it was a BJJ academy, butinto an MMA program, they're like they're
(30:53):
they're they're saying, hey, Iwant to fight. So I walk in.
I don't give really any background ofwhat I've done because I didn't want
to walk in sort of with thatchip on my shoulder. I walked in
and I'm like, yeah, Iwant to fight. And you know,
they hear that like twenty times aday. So my coach was like,
(31:15):
okay, cool, and he putme into this octagon after a few training
sessions. He put me in withlike a black belt. She was a
brown bed at the time, andshe's actually one of my training partners now
and I work with her for Brazilianjiu jitsu. She's a black belt now.
But he put me in the octagonwith her and two other women who
(31:37):
have been training for you know,several years, and I was at that
point a month in and he waslike, you say, you say you
want to fight. I'm like,yeah, yeah, I want to fight.
So he puts me in for likea minute with each of them and
tells them to basically go at itwith me, right, And we weren't.
We weren't like striking. We werejust doing grappling from stand up,
(32:02):
and I like, you know,hit like that nitro button that I always
hit in Rugby where I just turnedinto like a monster, and it was
just like he had to stop it. He was like, oh wait,
He's like, whoa, whoa,you want your training partners to come back
to borrow so um that you know, it was, I think that's how
(32:27):
it started, right I was.I was really I played my entire career,
I feel like Rugby with the exceptionI made the last year on emotion
and hitting that nitro, that nitro, you know, that nitro button and
just going crazy. But oftentimes itleft me quite tired, right, I
(32:50):
think there's only so much ATP yourbody can like cycle through UM and then
you're dead. And so that thatwas a really defining moment for me.
But it was it was a momentwhere I was like, I know that,
you know, I do want tofight, but I also know that
(33:12):
I want to fight for different reasonsthan I would played rugby. I want
to I want to be a technicallysavvy athlete who UM is known for,
you know how technically like UM superiorI am, And so yeah, I
do. I like, I likethe idea of fighting. I woke up
(33:35):
and I wanted to just do somethingthat was going to help me sort of
develop to my greatest potential as anathlete and continue that saga if you will.
But now, no, now lookingback, it's I wanted to be
(33:55):
able. I want to be ableto do that UM from a place that
is not root in any motion,but it is rooted in technique UM and
and just knowledge. So well,Nia is always my grappling partner before games,
and Nia, I think you mighthave a career. She is very
good at grappling, and like,yeah she is, well, you know,
(34:21):
she's so powerful, And then Ican't, I cannot get beat her
at all. She just gets inthis mode and then she just can't get
I can't think about it. Itold her, I told her I was
a coacher. She after she retires. You know, I just don't want
to get hit, you know,like this is my prize possession, right,
(34:42):
You don't have to get hit straighton. You just you're gonna get
hit in the face, yea.And when you first get hit in the
face, you're gonna be so readyto like go back at something. That's
what That's what you gotta like tame. You gotta tame that instinct. So
yeah, it's very natural. There'sno doubt you're a pure athlete. But
let's get into some of your venturesoutside of rugby. There's a list of
(35:07):
things, but one of the mainthings I want to talk about is your
clothing collection. PSK, can yougive us a little insight on where the
idea of this clothing collection came aboutand what you have planned for the future
for this collection. Well, Um, having been a lifelong athlete, I've
(35:30):
always had to deal with what I'msure both of you have to deal with
fitting clothes. Maybe not, butgrowing up, you know, back when
we rode horses and buggies to themall. I just struggled with finding clothes
(35:51):
that would fit me, even asa kid. And even if they fit
they would fit me, you know, they weren't the proper fit for me.
They I just I was quite androgynousas a child, and so clothes
are very girls clothes are very girly, and you know, there was no
such thing as girls buying boys clothes. I mean, that wasn't happening.
(36:15):
So I just found it very difficultto find clothes that would fit man.
And I started talking to other athletesas I got older, and many of
them, male and female, wouldhave the same issue of actually closed physically
fitting their bodies and you know,we fit their legs and would fit their
(36:36):
waiste or vice versa. So um. You know, I determined very early
on that I wanted to create aclothing line and was introduced to my current
business partner, Zara Biharre. Wesat down and chatted a little bit about
(37:00):
what my vision was in a clothingline. She was actually from Cheek was
over the pedigree of clothing makers.Clothes makers. Her family had been in
the business for you know, twentytwenty five plus years and so they were
they were just really ingrained in it. But we had a very similar vision
that we wanted to create this brand, but this you know anchored in um
(37:28):
charity, really uh anchored and givingback to organizations and nonprofits that were out
kind of doing that front line workon the social justice front. And you
know right now we are well we'recurrently partnered with the Women's Sports Foundation and
the Fight for Women's Equity, equalPay, but we're not limited to just
(37:52):
that cause. And so um yeah, that's really how the clothing line came
about. And we decided we werepre pre pandemic, you know, we'd
come together and we had this visionof when we wanted to launch the clothing
line, and once the pandemic hit, we decided we were going to go
(38:13):
forward with our plans and launch itand during the pandemic because we felt like
although there was just a lot goingon with COVID, there was a lot
of going on in our country,in our world. It was a very
sort of it was tough time,and we wanted to bring something that was
positive to the forefront through through apparel, and so we did and being a
(38:40):
brand ambassador for PSK, it hasbeen an amazing experience to be a part
of an organization, a brand thatwants to help different social aspects in the
world, but also create quality andvariety and clothing. I can speak on
it and say, like for myselfand one of my best friend's Jazzy,
we both wear PSK and we bothdressed completely different and to be able to
(39:05):
go to the same website and findthings that are comfortable and esthetically pleasing for
the both of us. I thinkthat's a prime example of what you can
get from PSK. So, ifyou are somebody who has struggled with finding
clothing that you can feel comfortable inbut also look good and feel good in,
PSK is the company that you wantto invest in. PSK is the
(39:29):
company that you want to go tofor yourself, for your friends, for
your family. So if if youare interested in that, please check out
her website. You can also goto my Instagram and find a lot of
posts that have PSK tag with alot of the amazing clothes that they offer.
Yeah, well, thank you forthat plub that was awesome. But
(39:51):
they also they can also get PSKCollective Apparel and KOLs dot com, Aalmart
dot com target Marketplace and most recentlyJ J. C penney dot com.
So yeah, yeah, yeah,and we will be breaking into the Asian
(40:12):
market early on twenty twenty two,UM, so proud of that, and
then the Canadian market as well,UM in early twenty twenty two. So
yeah, we we We're excited forthe growth. We appreciate the support.
And just know too that fifteen percentof all net net profit goes to UH
(40:37):
the Women's Sports Foundation, so amazing. UM. For this season finale,
we are going to end our cubquestions with questions that are directly for Phaedra.
I know a lot of the timesthe questions are for me and low,
but for this last episode of thisseason, we're going to have four
questions for Phaedre. So the firstquestion, keep it appropriate. So the
(41:00):
first question we have for you iswhat is your favorite thing to do outside
of work? Oh? So workfor me now is the clothing line and
training. UM. Honestly, rightnow that we're in December and November,
it's I like watching Hallmark Christmas musicmovies. UM. I like listening to
(41:23):
to um audiobooks. I'm listening toLife was It Lifespan? Um right now?
But yeah, I'm like, I'ma I'm a real Hallmark fan.
Seriously, I watched the movie onI watched the Hallmark movie on the way
back from Dubai on the plane andI was crying. It was crazy big
(41:45):
big city girl meets small town bedor something like that. Or I think
this one was what was it?No? This one was about was it
forever Christmas? Was it um?Or this woman was that she had come
back to her dad, her grandfather'sChristmas store in Vermont, and was gonna
(42:08):
sell it. I had but classicawesome, the same storyline as everyone every
other one. But you know,it's all good. Those are great feel
good movies. So the second questionis what was your favorite part about filming
with Halle Berry? Man, favoritepart was put you in the face.
(42:34):
Yo. What you didn't see washow she kicked my inner thigh and had
it like bruise, Yo, bruise. They should have put my inner thigh
right under bruise as like the titlegraphic right because she lit my enter tha
so bad. Nah. But thecool on the real the coolest thing was,
(42:55):
I mean I grew up right like, I mean, I grew up
like loving Halle Berry. Um.Everybody in my house, like she was
like one of the only black actressesat that level, and so, um,
you know, meeting her and gettinginto like work with her and see
(43:16):
her like almost on my daily basiswas awesome. And just understanding and realizing
that, you know, she's justas down to earth as any of us
was was really cool and so thatI think was my favorite thing. Um.
(43:37):
You know, it's also it's ait's a bragging thing, right I
say, like, oh, myfriend is Halle Berry like so, but
yeah, it was cool. Itwas cool. Um getting to also like
do a movie, um that's themedaround what I do every day, that
(43:58):
was awesome. And she brought infighters. She brought in like Bridget my
training partner. Um, you know, Gabby Garcia was in that. Gaby
Garcia is a very high level uligrappler. Um. Obviously Valentina Chefchenko was
in it. But all those allthose people that were in it, like
(44:20):
my coaches, they're real, thisis what they do, this is what
we do. So the authenticity ofthat was like second to none, and
so I think that was one ofthe things I really appreciated about the movie.
It was real. If you haven'twatched it yet, make sure you
go check out Bruised on Netflix soyou can see Padre and her stardom.
(44:45):
FDA, what was the best thingrugby has taught you? Wow? Best
thing that rugby's taught me? Iprobably I mean humility and I think I
brought to it, but really tookit to another level for me. Um
and just the importance, just theimportance of the team, teammates support,
(45:10):
what support really is um and sothose those are like I think, core
things that I gained from the sport, and I went into it knowing what
they were, but it just itredefined them. It's such a um an
(45:30):
incredible way. So yeah, andthen last thing, what's your next goal?
I my next goal is to turnpro in MMA. Um, it's
not my last goal, but it'smy next goal in MMA, just to
(45:51):
go pro. So working on doingthat, hopefully by twenty twenty three.
Uh if twenty twenty two rolls out, we don't have another shutdown and you
know, craziness with this COVID pandemicstuff, But that's the goal, to
turn pro. I'll be turning throat the age of possibly forty eight,
(46:14):
forty nines. So yeah, that'sthat's as a goal. That's an epic
goal for me. We should doanother podcast where yes, so listen to
like what you eat during the daynow you stay healthy? Because I think
I need that. I remember goingto a vegan restaurant with her and I
(46:35):
yeah in discussion, shut up,you wouldn't eat nothing. You wouldn't eat
Well, I think you love it. Why what what didn't you like about
it? I got vegan nachos.Well, there you go. I didn't
Yeah, maybe I didn't pick theright item. We should have gotten the
(46:57):
topics, maybe the tacos. ButAbby likes the plice a lot. Well,
you like it when I you knowwhat, when I come back up
to San Diego, well at low, I owe you dinner. Butcher in
your name on all these a lot? Man, so good, so good.
(47:25):
So I'll treat you some good foodmy favorite. Well yeah, do
you like I eat anything? Soyeah, I mean I was not my
first choice, but I found some. I mean, he's are getting crafty,
I will say, right right,yeah, it's off the chain.
So anyway, thank you so somuch for coming on with us and having
(47:47):
this chat. You've you've really beena pioneer and you're just a legending the
rugby game, and I mean,thank you so much for commentating our games
and being just such a strong womanfor all of us to look up too.
So thank you. Both of youare like super strong. I mean
you carry you carry the team UMin many ways, and so I'm just
(48:09):
I'm flattered to be here, appreciateyou thinking of man Um. Yeah,
great that you guys are doing this, So thank you, no problem.
We'll definitely be supporting you and yourprofessional ventures with MMA. So make sure
we get those front seat tickets wheneverthose around. Can we being girls girls?
(48:30):
Yeah, we got to lay ataplease, I'll pass that on.
Awesome. Thank you all right,guys, So this is the season finale,
so make sure to subscribe to Leo'sDown on your podcast app and follow
(48:50):
at with Sports on all social mediaplatforms from more great podcasts on women's sports.
Show notes are on our webpage atwisports dot com listen tablios Den.
The challenge for this last season finaleepisode is to go re listen to all
the leos Din episodes and comment onour latest picture on our Leo's Din Instagram
page which episode was your favorite?Thank you guys so much for tuning in.
(49:15):
We are going to take a breakfor now for the holidays, but
be sure to follow at Leo's Din, Underscore with Sports on Instagram and stay
tuned for news of season three comingyour way in twenty twenty two. Whether
you came to the rugby and stayfor the Shenangians, we hope you joined
us next time in the leos Den. Bye Peas Out.
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