October 15, 2021 • 43 mins
The all important topic of mental health is the subject for this episode as Naya and Lo share their journeys. Lo explains how she has come to terms with the struggles she has had as a professional athlete, how the Olympic Games affected her. and why she has now started seeing a therapist. Naya has also had to face her own challenges as aa Black woman and is also turning to a therapist to help guide her. The girls are joined by Marisa Elbers a mental performance coach with a Masters in Performance Psychology, certified yoga teacher, and personal trainer who works with athletes from high school to professional level teaching mental skills. They discuss some of the challenges facing elite athletes and tools that can help. Our favorite Leos also take a moment to meditate on the show and you’re invited to join them.
Hosts: Naya Tapper & Leo's Den
For more information, links and resources plus conversations from the world of women’s sport including articles, blogs, videos and podcasts visit wispsports.com. WiSP Sports is the World’s First and Only Podcast Network for Women’s Sport with more than 60 hosts, 1500+ episodes across 50 shows and over 7 million downloads. We are ranked in the top 2% more of than 2.69 million podcasts worldwide. WiSP Sports is on all major podcast players. Follow WiSP Sports on social media @WiSPsports. Contact us at info@wispsports.com.
Hosts: Naya Tapper & Leo's Den
For more information, links and resources plus conversations from the world of women’s sport including articles, blogs, videos and podcasts visit wispsports.com. WiSP Sports is the World’s First and Only Podcast Network for Women’s Sport with more than 60 hosts, 1500+ episodes across 50 shows and over 7 million downloads. We are ranked in the top 2% more of than 2.69 million podcasts worldwide. WiSP Sports is on all major podcast players. Follow WiSP Sports on social media @WiSPsports. Contact us at info@wispsports.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Hi everyone, and welcome to theLeo's Den. My name is Nia's tapper,
and my fun fact is that rightnow, the first thing on my
list of two dous is to finda therapist, a personal therapist. Nice
Nia. That's kind of my funfact to you. Hi everyone. So
my name's Elona. People call melow and my fun fact is I just
(00:25):
started seeing a therapist last Friday maybeor something like that. Like it was
via zoom and I was really nervous, but I just started and it was
good to chat. And I'm gonnasee her again on Wednesday night, So
I guess that's good for me.You can help me try to find somebody.
I got. You two Leo's justhelping each other out. Yeah,
(00:46):
And as you guys know, we'retwo leos who love to hear themselves talk.
And before we get into this conversation, the first thing that we start
off with is the horoscope. Sothe horoscope for today, if you're a
Leo, is that you will startyour day with a fresh perspective in every
task you do, and success islikely to come your way today. Your
desires will be fulfilled and you willfeel charged up put your best efforts into
(01:07):
whatever you do, and you willunleash your best potential. Your strength,
courage, and your energy levels willsee a marked increase and you will remain
active throughout the day. Communication willhelp you elevate your social status, shower
your love on your loved ones toenjoy bliss. Do not let low phases
in life hit you hard. Asconditions are set to gradually and improve in
the coming times, you will beheading towards victory and several aspects of your
(01:30):
life that was long but lovely?How does that very long? That a
little bit? I always read thetors up and I'm like, oh,
my gosh, yes, it's gonnahappen. This is gonna be great.
Oh that's so me. A lotof times it never happens, but every
time like this is it. Thisis the horoscope. And I think one
(01:53):
of the good things about the horoscopeis you could turn it into like what
is it called with manifesting but alsoit's another word. I think it starts
with a A whatever and I don'tknow. And affecting it like when you
go in the mirror and you sayevery day, oh, affirmation affirmations.
(02:14):
Yeah, so like I feel likethese like this horoscope. I feel like
if you do affirmations with it everyday, you read this long ass paragraph
in the mirror every day, ithas to happen eventually for you. So
you're saying it, but allre yougonna do it? NYA? I am
no, You're not. No,You're not liar. All right, guys,
So today we'll be talking about mentalhealth. UM. I think the
(02:37):
Olympics did a great job of highlightingjust how important mental health is. I
mean, we saw Simone Bios,the best gymnast in the world, take
a break and focus on our mentalhealth. Um. I think Olympians are
held on this pedestals, these untouchablestrong people, when reality, we have
issues. We get anxiety, depressionlike everyone else. UM. I personally
have been in a hard place withmy mental health right now, and I
(02:58):
think it's just so important to recognizeit and get help, which is what
I'm doing. What about you now? So I too had that with my
own mental hardships. In terms ofnavigating my way through a professional sport as
a black woman, for a longtime, I thought therapy was silly and
it took a while for me toactually jump on the train. Funny story,
I was kind of forced, likea couple of years ago from one
(03:19):
of our courts to coaches to talkto our sports therapists, Like that was
one of my have to dous inorder to show that I wanted to be
there. And I do think thattherapy should be optional, everybody should have
a choice in doing so. ButI feel like in that situation, I
think that was the best thing thatcould have happened for me, because I
don't think that I would have didit on my own if the opportunities were
(03:45):
presented. So having that situation happenedto me, that changed my life,
Like therapy has changed my life.And I hope anyone who is listening to
this that has been second guessing goingto therapy at least gives it a try,
because I think that was the thingfor me. Like I tried it
and it was so weird, youknow, Yeah, I'm like, sit
there, man, I like totalk about I'm like silent and then they're
(04:05):
silence, so I'm like and thenwhen I was two, and then I
started sharing like life stories and stufflike once you get comfortable, you get
comfortable, and after life's good wholedid all that mess anymore? But as
you guys know, we are noexperts. So today we have a special
guest for you guys. Her nameis Marissa Elbers, and she's gonna get
(04:29):
into mental health, specifically with athletes. Marissa Elbers is a mental performance coach
with the Masters in Performance Psychology,certified yoga teacher and personal trainer lord.
She has working professional Olympic, collegeand high school athletes teaching mental health,
mental skills and yoga. Hey Marissa, Hey everybody, thank you Nia and
(04:51):
Lowe for having me on the podcast. I'm really excited to be a part
of this discussion on mental health andit's something super important to me. Also,
I'm a virgo, so I ampretty close to being a leo.
Okay, you're you're close, butyou're not. You're not a leo.
All right, chill out. Um. So, for me, the experience
(05:15):
came first, and then it wasthe formal education followed by more experience in
this field. I did complete mymaster's in Performance psychology while simultaneously doing the
yoga teacher training. And my firstjob in this field was in a physical
therapy office. And you guys mightnot know this, but that's how I
(05:36):
actually got turned onto rugby. Soour office was the provider care for the
San Diego Legion and the players wouldcome in for their treatment. Eventually they
invited me to a game and Ibecame hooked. So from there I've worked
(05:57):
two NFL Draft prep trainings with bestbeast coach in the game, Less Elmit,
and also throughout the last couple ofyears, I've been working on my
own with private clients, small groups. Well, that is a beautiful resume.
I mean, she sounds like aLeo to me. She sits there.
All right, we'll give your Leosatus today. So, Mercia,
(06:19):
were you an athlete yourself? Yes, I started dancing at age four,
and I also grew up playing basketball, so it's been a part of my
life forever. I still play basketballsometimes hoop a little bit. So like,
was it the sports and being aroundathletics that really kind of made you
(06:40):
get into mental health? And isthat do you focus primarily on athletes?
Yeah, so that's a great question. Um, there's actually two reasons that
I'm in this field. The firstone is in twenty thirteen, I experienced
a really bad back injury during atraining session and I was training hard and
(07:02):
it was because I experienced a lossin my life that it was my outlet.
So I ended up ignoring the injuryfor an entire year, which compounded
the problem. It's well, obviouslyI couldn't take the pain anymore. I
was dealing with multiple disc issues inmy lumbar sign and at that point I
(07:23):
could no longer walk properly or workeven and I ended up forced to spend
the next five months recovering and healing. Once my back was healed, I
decided to go to school and Iended up finding the government's psychology program.
So I just realized how little supportthere is mentally for people going through an
(07:44):
injury. The doctors were not helpful, especially in the er my counselor.
So I did have a counselor atthe time, she was amazing. But
there's another component to why I wasinjured, and it was that athlete mindset,
pushing through the pain, not knowingwhen to stop or when it's detrimental
(08:05):
to you, thinking you just haveto deal with it, etc. You
know, there needs to be supportfor that just on that topic, like
in rugby. I can say forme personally and probably a lot of us
girls, our pain tolerance from whenwe join the team to now is probably
ridiculous. Like a lot of usplay with injuries and we think that that's
(08:26):
normal, like oh yeah, likeI gotta hit problem, or i gott
a foot problem and I'm just gonnawait until I'm done playing to get it
fixed. Crazy. It's so truebecause like we are, we put so
much for us on being the bestwe can be, like going to the
Olympics and doing all stuff, andnow after the Olympics, everyone and you
know, from men's women's are allgetting treated. Now God, niggas like
(08:46):
our teammates are getting full on hipsurgery. And I'm like, you played
with that, And that's the athletemindset of just okay, I just gotta
play through this. It'll be fine. And it's just the total Olympian this
idea that we're unbreakable. We haveto be strong, we can't be bendable.
Yeah, definitely. It's it's tough. It's tough to know, and
you know, you don't want tolose your job, you don't want to
(09:09):
lose your spot. It's hard.It's been great to come to light with
the athletes and mental health. Ithink, as I said, Simone Biles
has really showed what mental health,how important mental health is. What is
it about athletes and athletics that alsocan be so tough and mentally draining for
them? Well, sports are supercompetitive. Your standards are set extremely high,
(09:33):
more so than you would see forsomeone working just like a typical day
job. So sports requires that mindsetsimilar to like a high risk occupation like
firefighters, surgeons, military, etcetera. And depending on the level that
you're at, a typical schedule ispacked with responsibilities, so it doesn't end
when you go home because you haveto maintain that sharp mind and the healthy
(09:58):
body, and you're constantly working tokeep that spot. So there's pressure to
perform, and you know, ifthere's travel, et cetera, it's not
always ideal. And then on theother side too, if you're a student
athlete, there's only a few hoursin a day a free time, so
you're generally pretty tired and it's notalways easy to be social and have fun,
which I think that everybody needs intheir life. What caliber of athletes
(10:22):
have you worked with? What sportshave you worked with? Is it different
across the different sports in terms ofthe athletes that you're dealing with, That's
an interesting question. Like a lotof the high school kids are very invincible,
you know, they don't see theother side of things. They just
want to go hard and you know, not stop. A lot of the
(10:46):
pro athletes are, especially those whomaybe we're playing in our free agents now,
they're a little more seasoned, sothey know to take care of themselves
a little bit better, you know, on that respective things anyway. But
yeah, I've worked with football players, rugby players, soccer players, baseball
(11:09):
kind of touching on all of them. I'm familiar with a lot of sports.
I don't know all of them,like super in depth, but there
are a few that I do.Yet, were they pretty receptive to you
when the introduction was made of youknow, here's a sports psychologist. Was
it, Hey, you guys haveto talk to her, or if you
want to talk to her, talkto her. And were they receptive to
that at all? You know,Well, first thing, I'm not a
(11:33):
sports psychologist. You have to havea PhD. Yeah, there is a
separation there. You know, wedo very similar things. It just depends
on how you want to call itbased on the degrees. As far as
receptive, I have found that yogais a really good way to introduce athletes
(11:54):
into the realm of mental performance becauseit gets them to sit down, learn
to be present and slow down,and then develop that relationship with them so
that we can start to build andtalk more slow. Okay, So I've
(12:18):
done one of Marissa's yoga classes,and if I'm being honest, it was
hard for me mentally, like myattention span. I just don't have the
patience. I'm like, Okay,this is slow, Like let me hear
you. If we get through,it's I'm gonna go home blow. Have
you done yoga? Has it beensomething beneficial for you? Have you been
able to get to that mental statethat it brings you to? So I
(12:39):
actually I've done yoga with Merris.I did it with her before the Olympics
and it was a great time tolike hang out and She'll like, actually
she did it in a way thatit was meant for athletes and recovery.
But yeah, I'm not good atit as well. I when I get
into schwass and I'm like about,I'm gonna get a cheeseburger after this,
you know, And I but Ihave, like I think, making it
(13:00):
a point to and I'm still workingon it, like using these times a
way to really focus in and helpbecause our swords like hiachras. Peter always
talks about being present, right AndI don't know about you and I,
but I have trouble being present.I know we are. They're always thinking
about the next thing. Yeah,yeah, just always thinking about like the
(13:24):
next thing. Like even in theOlympics. I think what was got me
is we were so we like we'rethinking about the next game, you know,
the next thing that was happening,winning a medal, instead of maybe
more staying present and what was goingon there. Um, So that's the
thing I definitely want to work on. And um I know that we have
like apps like healthy minds, Likedo you suggest apps of people, Marissa,
or what do you suggest? Like, you know, I've heard of
(13:46):
healthy minds. I've heard of likemeditation and yoga. What would you suggest
for a beginner who just wants toget into mental health. Yeah, honestly,
I mean, come take my yogaclass. But but apps are awesome,
And I personally use ad space andyou know, I love it.
I use it daily. It reallyhelps me to have someone else guide me,
(14:13):
because you know, I can't teachyourself. I mean it could,
but it's just nice to have somebodyelse doing it, And so I say
yes. If you're a beginner,there's no expectation. You lay down.
If your mind goes crazy, that'sokay. We just try again the next
day and the next day and thenext day, and over time, if
(14:35):
you're consisted, it becomes something thatreally does start to help you. What
are your staple tips and tricks forathletes who have difficulties being able to stay
present, um, honestly talking toyourself telling yourself that you know, that
is what I need to do rightnow. And breathing so deep breath,
(15:01):
palm down the heart rate, halmeddown the mind and that allows you to
be in that more focused set spacewhere you are just where your feet are.
So the breath, the self talktwo huge factors that I know this
is kind of impromptu, but lowwhat do you think about, Marisa,
like giving us like a one minutemeditation and our listeners joining in and seeing,
(15:26):
you know what that feels like andthen we can get back into the
rest of the conversations. Does thatsound okay? I mean I will try
to say, but yeah, wecan try that if we're yeah, for
let's do it. Does that soundokay, Marissa? Yeah, that's fine.
So you want me to start itnow? Yeah? Okay, all
(15:46):
right. So if you are seated, feet firmly planted on the ground,
put up nice and tall. Ifyou're laying down, just have a nice
straight back and close your eyes,let all your air out. Hands can
rest on the knees or on thebelly, so where you prefer. And
(16:11):
then we'll pick an inhale through thenose for one, two three four,
and then an exhale for two,three, four, five, six seven
(16:33):
eight. Inhale two three four andexhale two three, four, five,
six seven eight inhale two three.Fill up the lungs all the way up
(17:03):
to the collar bone and exhale,but everything's fall nice and easy. In
heale and jack pale. There yougo, take a couple of breaths,
(17:23):
maybe three or four, just tokind of calm down a little bit.
I'll be honest, I can't inhalefor four seconds. The first time,
I was like two seconds, justheld it. I was like poking on.
I can't for four seconds. I'veI've tried it before, and I'm
(17:44):
like there's something wrong. One timenine and I did like a challenge where
we swam underwater for who could swimthe longest. I could probably do like
maybe ten meters. I have nobreath to anyway. Anyway, thank you
for doing that. That was actuallyreally relaxing about. That's why the practice
truly. I gotta work on mylung space. So one thing I want
(18:07):
to talk to you about is somethingcalled post Olympics depression. I don't know
if you've watched this a documentary onHBO Max called The Weight of Gold with
Michael Phelps, and the main topicis about how after the Olympics, this
amazing time right where people win medalsand they have the best experience of their
life, they do something they've workedtheir whole life to be and they're called
Olympians, and then they get what'ssomething called post Olympics depression or post Olympics
(18:32):
blues. Why do you think thatis? Why do you think so many
Olympians go through that? Yeah,so that's a really important question to ask.
And I'll say this, Um,what goes up must come down.
So I'm going to get a littlescience e here. But most of us
have heard of the chemical we've producedcalled dopamine, and dopamine is a molecule
(18:57):
of motivation. So you it's theOlympics, you feel amazing, You're high
on life, you're proud, andthere's so many other emotions. Right you
feel on top of the world.For some this is going to be the
greatest achievement of their career. You'regetting dopamine really is over and over throughout
that entire experience, and it keepsbuilding. But afterwards that level of dopamine
(19:22):
drops, but it doesn't just drop. It drops be low that normal baseline
level that you had before, andthe extent to which it drops the low
baseline is propartial to high how highthat peak went. So if you achieved
a dream, didn't get the resultsyou wanted and then now it's over,
(19:42):
well you're going to feel quite abit lower. So that drop in mood
and motivation is that drop in thatbaseline level of dopamine. And that being
said, no one should be hardon themselves for this because totally normal,
and it will take some time tobring that basine level back up, and
(20:03):
it will come back up, andthat's it's important to know, like you
will be okay again, and therereally isn't anything that you can do other
than to just ride that wave andlet everything read set. And I know
you guys, some of you gettime off after the Olympics, and I
feel like that's really helpful for ourlisteners. I'm sure you follow me and
(20:26):
Low and our journey and you canprobably notice, like after the Olympics,
both both of our down times andsituations looked a lot different. So I
think Marissa, my question for youis with post Olympic depression, is it
like like what makes some athletes experienceit and others not so much? Do
(20:49):
you have any insight on that itcould be because of if this is the
greatest thing that you've ever achieve andthere's a lot of compounding there, like
dopamine dopamine, dopamine along that wholejourney. For some people, if they
put everything on that like this isgoing to be the greatest thing ever,
(21:12):
then they will hit that much lowerlevel. But if you have someone who
is I had a lot of highsin their career, maybe they've learned how
to manage that with either self talkor just how they how they respond to
it um emotionally. They're not asattached to it and they just like the
(21:33):
experience of it. They're just kindof staying at that level. Their base
sign isn't going to drop below people. So that could be why. Yeah,
Because watching Low and her journey withthe post Olympics, I started questioning
myself of you know, if Iam not feeling that way, like did
(21:57):
I not care? Did I youknow, did I not do enough?
Did it not matter to me?And like questioning like is something wrong with
me that I that everybody wasn't havingthe same reaction. And I'm sure Low
you can speak on that, likewas that how you were feeling? But
(22:17):
on the opposite side, I am. I think in a way at times
I felt almost selfish for feeling thisway because like we all went through the
same thing, right, and soI'm like, oh, why do I
feel so much worse? I thinkeveryone is feel worse. I think for
me because of that one game init that really I put a lot of
the blame on myself for it.And I know I'm trying to get out
of that, but I think itis tough because I feel almost as though
(22:42):
I'm like, I hate that I'mputting it all my shoulders. Because somebody
commented on a TikTok of mine waslike, if you win a game,
you would never say it's all yourfault, right, it would never be
like, yeah, that I wonthat game for us. But if you
lose a game, it's so easyto be like, oh I did that,
I was the one who was toblame. So I think that's when
we had different experiences, right,And that's so so key. We had
(23:03):
such different experience at the Olympics,and I think my thing was as well.
I was such on such a highat the Olympics, right, like
TikTok, Everything's going so so well. I'm getting all these followers, getting
all this notoriety, and then I'mlike, oh, this is just such
a nice wave to ride, youknow, and then that and one fourteen
minute game, it just all camecrashing down, and I, again,
I put the blame on myself.So I think that's why it really affected
(23:27):
me. I wish that if Ihadn't put the blame on myself, if
I hadn't after that quarterfinal game feltlike it was my fault, I think
it would be a different experience,right, Yeah, So that's something I'm
working through to not fully feel likeit was my fault, which is very
hard, and that's kind of whyI started talk to somebody, because you
(23:48):
know, everyone being a team sport, everyone says it's not your fault,
but it's very hard to get yourmind to agree with you, right,
yeah, yeah, but I amhappy to be talking to somebody now.
And I think, like you talkedabout, you were you were forced to
go talk to a sports psychi becauseI think at times I do feel bad.
I'm like, I'm an Olympian,Like, why should I Why do
(24:10):
I feel this way? I getto play the sport I love every day
as a job, right, Ishouldn't get to feel this way if people
were like, oh, you're arugby player for living, that's so awesome,
Like, but there is a lotof struggles we go through, and
I think, I know we bothprobably put a lot of anticipation on getting
a medal, right, and thatwas like our our goal, and then
I think I forgot about what anamazing journey it was all together and I
(24:33):
did that just all went to theside and I only thought about the one
thing. Yeah, Well, Ijust want to say kudos to you because
you know you're taking the steps andI think that's an important thing, and
that's something that I love to seenot only in myself and in others.
It's like putting actions to things thatyou know are important and necessary and need
to happen. So I think that'sa huge step in that. You know,
(24:55):
I already think you're strong and braveand courageous, but this is like
another level not only to do it, but to share it with the world,
Like not many people can do that. Yeah, but see now,
I'm not gonna be the fifth thirstyOlympian. I'm gonna be like, oh,
that's sad Olympian. Y'all follow thatsad rugby Olympian and TikTok whatever.
(25:17):
It's okay, I'll be the posterchild for post Olympic blues. But I'm
doing much much better. Um Mercy, do you have any questions for us
as well? Um let me thinkabout that, because nice, So you're
not You're gonna try to see atherapist, right or somebody? Yeah,
(25:37):
and right now, like we havea sports psychologist, so I'm still working
with him. But I feel likeoutside of sports, there's things that it's
like, you know that I've dealtwith or like not even aware that I've
dealt with and it was something thathas affected me long term and I'm not
aware of it. So I'm justsuper curious, like to speak with somebody
(26:03):
about my personal life and see ifI can break open any locked doors or
like discover any new things about myselfthat will allow me to be a better
person in the long run. Sothat's my goal right now with that is
to kind of have a team up. Therapist will get you with all your
people. Now, what are somethings that you do personally to help your
(26:25):
mental health? You can probably seea lot of it, like through my
Instagram. I love spending time withmy family and my friends, like going
to North Carolina and being around mygirls and my mom and my aunts,
Like they make me feel good,Like they remind when you go home,
Like you're constantly reminded of your accomplishmentsand all the amazing things you do.
(26:49):
And I think that's something that welack sometimes we try to be too humble
and we don't focus on the positivethings and the amazing things that we have
done enough. But when those negativethings come, we're ready to put those
out of pedestal. So I thinkthat's a mental switch that we have to
have, but coming home, spendingtime with my family and friends, going
out, having a good time,doing things that make me feel good.
(27:12):
I think that's the best way thatI've been handling mental health. But I
also know that it requires more.So, as I said, I'm trying
to be like you and take thatnext step to get a personal therapist.
Gosh, nice, I love that, love that. What about you?
I think for me, I feltlike going home was so great, but
(27:36):
the problem was I feel so comfortableat home that I just literally can't fake.
I couldn't fake like being happier.Every emotion I had, I felt
like full force because I couldn't fakeit. So I just had some very
down days because and you know,my sisters laid there like snipe, they
just pick it up. They're like, me alone is not doing the all
today, We're gonna hop on that. So I couldn't take it at all,
(28:00):
which is awesome. But then sometimesI'm like, all right, I'm
fine, guys, chill. Yeah. But I think going home, I
think I love going on walks,I love hanging out with you know,
friends and whatnot. And I thinkfor me, it's like getting my mind
off of it, you know,and doing something that isn't Like again,
I'm on TikTok all the time,which can be very detrimental to your health,
So trying to figure out to balancethere. I do have a question,
(28:23):
why do you think there is astigma against seeing either you know,
a mental skills coach, a sportspsychologist, or just it against mental health
in general? What do you feelgood? Be the thing that opens the
door to that for let's say highschoolers or even college or pro asses.
(28:47):
What would it take to make thatmore normal? I mean, I think
for me personally, and it's beensomething I've been trying to do on my
TikTok and whatnot on apps is likebe very open about my journey and like
posting that I went to see mytherapist today or it's okay not to be
okay, kaid ask for help.But as I've said, and as Nia
and I Ni and are these big, strong, very confident women who we
(29:12):
grow up like again having that ideathat life is good, everything kind of
working out what do we have tobe sad about? What do we have
to not feel good about? Andso there's this stigma around like oh,
well, if you're what you have, everything you're a rugby player, why
are you so sad? And sowhy would you ask for help? I
just think for me, a thingI say is like, you can't compare
(29:34):
anybody's sadness or anybody's like everyone goesthrough their own things, right, so
that stuff And I think with um, we have to put this front on
of being so strong as athletes thatwe don't want to go to mental health
professionals because that might show that we'reweak and that we can't take care of
things on our own and we can'tpush through like we've been taught our whole
(29:55):
lives too. And I think hello, pretty much set it. Like in
the black community, nobody goes totherapy. That's what it was like.
I think what black people have dealtwith so long, they had to fight
for everything on their own. SoI think a lot of deep independence came
(30:17):
with that throughout our culture to wherelike you shouldn't need help, you can
figure it out on your own.And then also thinking like back then,
probably all the therapists were white.What is a white person? How is
a white person going to help meas a black person in this world?
So I think now having better awarenessof the importance of therapy, regardless of
(30:37):
the color of the person that you'regoing to see, has become very important
and more apparent in the culture andmore accepted. But also the variety of
therapists that are out there now forus, whether it's in the specific field
they're in or the race that theyare, the background they've come from,
there's more people out there that couldbe relatable to you and whatever since you
(31:00):
need them to be. So Ithink that's what it was for me.
Like me and my sports psychologists talka lot about the fact that he's like,
I'm like, thank you for trustingme because I'm a white man trying
to help you a black woman inrugby. Like, that's just two completely
different worlds, So thank you fortrusting me. So I think a lot
of it comes down to trusting peoplein their education, trusting people and their
(31:26):
intentions for you, knowing that they'repure, and knowing that it's okay to
ask for help. You can't doeverything by yourself, and if you try
to, as you said, whenthings are up, they have to come
down. So I think that's prettymuch my mindset on it. That's all
good points again to get back to, like different experiences, right, like
you and I have such different experiencesas athletes, as women, as rugby
(31:49):
players, not just because of likeour level of ability, but are the
color of our skin. And it'sjust so much to take into account.
Um. I do have one morequestion for you, Mersa, and that's
is do you find it different workingwith men versus women? Yes? And
no? And that's a super interestingtopic too. Um what helped me get
(32:12):
I mean obviously being with less andthat whole program, it was a bit
of a buy in for the maleathletes. You know, I think I
think they do look at me thesame way that Naya said. You know,
I'm a white woman and a lotof them are black athletes. And
(32:36):
you know, I don't know exactlywhere I'm meant to be, but I
do feel called to help people,and so you know, you're not going
to be for everybody, but Ido believe that the yoga is a really
great way for them to connect withme. And see, you know,
I do specialize in this. Thisis what I'm here to do, this
(32:59):
is what I'm passionate about, andthis is where my all of my knowledge
lies. So you know, ifthey're open enough to be able to buy
into that. At least you neverknow what you can learn from somebody,
Like you said, Um, it'sour experiences that can't connect us, and
you know, I might be ableto open their eye to something completely different
(33:20):
that they never would have thought ofbefore and that could help them. I
think that even gets into even youknow, we're athletes, we're female athletes,
but I think it might even beharder for male athletes in that they're
supposed to be the like, unfeeling, unemotional. They're the toughest, the
strongest of us, so they havethis such a stigma around them that I
(33:43):
don't see many of them talking aboutmental health, and I think that could
be cool if we hear more aboutit, because I am the pressure that
they have to face as well beingbeing male athletes. Um, it's also
something that I think is very shouldbe talked about more and should be people
should know that it's okay even male, female, black, white, it's
(34:04):
okay to ask for help there.Yeah, and I do see do see
the woman being just a little bitmore open to the idea of it.
Yes, so, but yeah,you're completely right. Well, thank you
so much Marissa for joining us onthis episode. Of mental health. I
thought your input was very insightful,and thank you for you know, helping
(34:29):
people get to a place of positivityand mental peace. I think that's something
that has been really getting blown upin the world lately and that's fantastic to
see. So thank you for beinghere. Thank you guys so much.
Appreciate you. When's your next yogasash one? Can I come and not
be flexible? I'll hit you upat any day, girl, any day.
(34:52):
I'm here for you any day.All right. So guys, now
we're getting into a cup questions.Um, first off, Nia, how
are you doing? That's to somebody'slike how are you how? Was it
(35:15):
a how are you doing? Orwas it a how are you doing?
How are we? I think itwas one of those. Um, so
I am doing pretty good. Iactually just got back from Memphis and played
in a tournament, which sounds nutsbecause we just got back from the Olympics.
But I had a really good time. It was good to be in
a new environment but still involved inrugby. My body felt good out there,
(35:39):
so um that was very reassuring,especially going into the Olympics with a
little knick knack and my ankle andstuff. So being able to see that
the time offs after the Olympics washelpful for my body. So right now
I'm just back with you and allthe other lovely ladies on Thursday. Yo,
yo, is it on? Ithink it might be. I dude.
(36:02):
I ran a bronco with Carlin andNicole last week. Yeah. I
was like, you guys, goahead, I'll catch up. I'm right
behind you. Let me get likea three minute head start. It was
thirty seconds different for you. Rightawesome. I personally, as you've seen,
(36:22):
and you know, we haven't chattedmuch, but i haven't been doing
that well. But I've just been, I guess, trying to make an
admission to try to do well.It's it's been a lot of those times
where it's like, man, itreally feels like it's not gonna get better.
Yeah, and it just feels likethere's like clouds over the sun and
the clouds just won't leave. Andthen but it's like I know the sun's
(36:43):
there and I know things are goingto get better, but just at times,
you know, you get sucked intowhat is depression or anxiety and you
feel like it's not gonna get better. But it's been good to be around
my family. Um, they're justmy support, just like you, you
know, having your friends and family. And I am excited to be back
to training with the team again andhave a have a purpose. And I
think a lot of change is coming, which is stressful but also exciting.
(37:07):
You know, we're in the huntfor a new head coach, we have
new girls coming in, so alot of stuff is happening, but I
am excited for what's gonna what's gonnahappen. Yeah, And I think that
rolls perfectly into the next Cup question, which is how do you handle anxiety
around things you can't control, forexample, all these changes that we're about
to go through. You know,I don't know. I feel like I've
(37:30):
always been very good with handling kindof my emotions, and just this past
couple of months, I haven't beenas good for me. It's um did
I talked to my mom all time? I called her up the other night
and I was like about to unloadon her, and I was like,
I literally just call this woman toshare every bad thing that has happened to
me. She's like my sounding board, I think talking to somebody, but
(37:54):
for me, it's like going onwalks and still having fun because I think
we get wrapped up in rugby.So I think you and I both like
to have fun outside of rugby,right, like, yeah, not letting
rugby dominate our lives, whether that'sgoing out at night, enjoying a good
meal, hang with friends, likefinding that balance. And I think for
me, like it's like mental cuesbecause for me, I am an organization
(38:19):
freak. I like to know what'sgoing on. I like to be in
control. So with rugby, likewe've dealt with so much things that are
out of our control where I've hadto be able to tell myself literally like
it's out of your control. Youdon't have to speak up, it's not
going to have an effect. Justkeep it to yourself, or go talk
(38:42):
to your therapists, like, orgo talk to your best friend and just
like you know, release a littlebit, but just don't unleash. Yeah.
So I think that's been the thingfor me of like just reminding myself
can't do anything about it. Itis what it is. Go find something
else to put your attention on.So I think that's the way I've been
(39:05):
handling it. I guess we'll findout and whenever I do find a therapist
if that's good or not. Butactually she's like, yeah, you that
sucks. That was a terrible way. All Right's a last question. Did
you have any mental health issues beforesports? Or sports the culprit for you.
I used to get frustrated a lotin like my classes when I didn't
(39:29):
understand things, and so of courseit was like ask, don't you don't
know? Ask And it came toa point where I was known from my
teachers as like the girl who askedtoo many damn questions, and they made
it a bad thing in a wayto where it just started bubbling in me
because I'm like, I don't wantto ask because I don't want them to
(39:52):
kick me out to think that I'mdisturbing the class. But I also don't
know the answer, and I thinkthat drive drove me nuts for a while.
And that's kind of where the thingslike realizing that sucking my thumb was
a stress reliever for me, towhere I would literally be in class and
(40:12):
when I didn't understand a math questionand I was too scared to ask and
I was literally ready to cry,I would put my thumb in my mouth
and all the stress would go away. So it's like things like that.
For a long time, I didn'teven know that was a coping mechanism for
me. So that's why I thinkwhen I do finally go to therapy,
I'm going to discover a lot ofthings about me that I didn't realize.
(40:35):
So it definitely came before sports,especially being in the military and having to
move around a lot, but sportsdefinitely was the icing on the cake in
terms of stress. What about you, I think for me, sports was
kind of the thing that helped me. You know, it really was the
way that I could release all thisI was. I guess I was a
(40:59):
very angry child. I just hadto go like play angry angry animals with
somebody, so it was like wouldget angry. But sports was a way
that I coped and it was somethingthat I was really good at. So
it kind of helped me. Andit's and it's always been that way.
I think now that we're in thisenvironment of it being our job, it
just becomes much more streussful instead ofit being like a fun club thing.
Yeah, so that's why it becomesstressful. But I don't think it's a
(41:20):
culprit for me. I think it'sme setting myself up for something and then
like setting myself up for winning amedal, setting myself up for doing all
these things, and then it notcoming true, and then I've kind of
I've ruined my chances of really appreciatingwhat was in the moment. Right,
But I'm gonna keeps playing sports.I love those, Yeah, And I
can agree with that too, becauseI remember like being home for that month
(41:44):
after the Olympics and like just allthe stress building up because I wasn't working
out. Don't tell my future coach, and I was just chilling and doing
whatever, and like didn't have theopportunity to hit somebody and release stress or
run run it, run off myanger or you know, pass the ball,
like to be able to release astar. So I was looking forward
(42:05):
to getting back to training and releasingthe stress. It's like it's coming in
from both directions. You for both, All right, guys, Well that's
all we have for you today.If you could subscribe to the leos Den
on your podcast app, that wouldbe awesome and we'd love you forever.
Show notes are on our webpage atwessports dot com, Listen tablios Den and
(42:29):
make sure to follow at with Sportson all social media platform for more great
podcasts on women's sports. And thechallenge that we have for you guys today
is first to be aware that it'sokay to ask for help and to get
help if you feel like you needit. Even me and low as Olympic
athletes need help and that's probably hopefullysomething that you've discovered over this conversation.
(42:51):
So the next time you're dealing witha situation that is stressful or overwhelming,
we challenge you to share it withsomebody close to you and get some advice
or just release some of that tension. Thank you, guys so much for
tuning in. I hope you enjoyedthis conversation Again, make sure you check
us out on Instagram at leos DenUnderscore with Sports to stay updated on the
(43:12):
next episode. Whether you came forthe rugby and stayed with the Shenanigans,
we hope you join us again inthe leos Den. Bye, peace out.
Hi everyone, and welcome to theLeo's Den. My name is Nia's tapper,
and my fun fact is that rightnow, the first thing on my
list of two dous is to finda therapist, a personal therapist. Nice
Nia. That's kind of my funfact to you. Hi everyone. So
my name's Elona. People call melow and my fun fact is I just
(00:25):
started seeing a therapist last Friday maybeor something like that. Like it was
via zoom and I was really nervous, but I just started and it was
good to chat. And I'm gonnasee her again on Wednesday night, So
I guess that's good for me.You can help me try to find somebody.
I got. You two Leo's justhelping each other out. Yeah,
(00:46):
And as you guys know, we'retwo leos who love to hear themselves talk.
And before we get into this conversation, the first thing that we start
off with is the horoscope. Sothe horoscope for today, if you're a
Leo, is that you will startyour day with a fresh perspective in every
task you do, and success islikely to come your way today. Your
desires will be fulfilled and you willfeel charged up put your best efforts into
(01:07):
whatever you do, and you willunleash your best potential. Your strength,
courage, and your energy levels willsee a marked increase and you will remain
active throughout the day. Communication willhelp you elevate your social status, shower
your love on your loved ones toenjoy bliss. Do not let low phases
in life hit you hard. Asconditions are set to gradually and improve in
the coming times, you will beheading towards victory and several aspects of your
(01:30):
life that was long but lovely?How does that very long? That a
little bit? I always read thetors up and I'm like, oh,
my gosh, yes, it's gonnahappen. This is gonna be great.
Oh that's so me. A lotof times it never happens, but every
time like this is it. Thisis the horoscope. And I think one
(01:53):
of the good things about the horoscopeis you could turn it into like what
is it called with manifesting but alsoit's another word. I think it starts
with a A whatever and I don'tknow. And affecting it like when you
go in the mirror and you sayevery day, oh, affirmation affirmations.
(02:14):
Yeah, so like I feel likethese like this horoscope. I feel like
if you do affirmations with it everyday, you read this long ass paragraph
in the mirror every day, ithas to happen eventually for you. So
you're saying it, but allre yougonna do it? NYA? I am
no, You're not. No,You're not liar. All right, guys,
So today we'll be talking about mentalhealth. UM. I think the
(02:37):
Olympics did a great job of highlightingjust how important mental health is. I
mean, we saw Simone Bios,the best gymnast in the world, take
a break and focus on our mentalhealth. Um. I think Olympians are
held on this pedestals, these untouchablestrong people, when reality, we have
issues. We get anxiety, depressionlike everyone else. UM. I personally
have been in a hard place withmy mental health right now, and I
(02:58):
think it's just so important to recognizeit and get help, which is what
I'm doing. What about you now? So I too had that with my
own mental hardships. In terms ofnavigating my way through a professional sport as
a black woman, for a longtime, I thought therapy was silly and
it took a while for me toactually jump on the train. Funny story,
I was kind of forced, likea couple of years ago from one
(03:19):
of our courts to coaches to talkto our sports therapists, Like that was
one of my have to dous inorder to show that I wanted to be
there. And I do think thattherapy should be optional, everybody should have
a choice in doing so. ButI feel like in that situation, I
think that was the best thing thatcould have happened for me, because I
don't think that I would have didit on my own if the opportunities were
(03:45):
presented. So having that situation happenedto me, that changed my life,
Like therapy has changed my life.And I hope anyone who is listening to
this that has been second guessing goingto therapy at least gives it a try,
because I think that was the thingfor me. Like I tried it
and it was so weird, youknow, Yeah, I'm like, sit
there, man, I like totalk about I'm like silent and then they're
(04:05):
silence, so I'm like and thenwhen I was two, and then I
started sharing like life stories and stufflike once you get comfortable, you get
comfortable, and after life's good wholedid all that mess anymore? But as
you guys know, we are noexperts. So today we have a special
guest for you guys. Her nameis Marissa Elbers, and she's gonna get
(04:29):
into mental health, specifically with athletes. Marissa Elbers is a mental performance coach
with the Masters in Performance Psychology,certified yoga teacher and personal trainer lord.
She has working professional Olympic, collegeand high school athletes teaching mental health,
mental skills and yoga. Hey Marissa, Hey everybody, thank you Nia and
(04:51):
Lowe for having me on the podcast. I'm really excited to be a part
of this discussion on mental health andit's something super important to me. Also,
I'm a virgo, so I ampretty close to being a leo.
Okay, you're you're close, butyou're not. You're not a leo.
All right, chill out. Um. So, for me, the experience
(05:15):
came first, and then it wasthe formal education followed by more experience in
this field. I did complete mymaster's in Performance psychology while simultaneously doing the
yoga teacher training. And my firstjob in this field was in a physical
therapy office. And you guys mightnot know this, but that's how I
(05:36):
actually got turned onto rugby. Soour office was the provider care for the
San Diego Legion and the players wouldcome in for their treatment. Eventually they
invited me to a game and Ibecame hooked. So from there I've worked
(05:57):
two NFL Draft prep trainings with bestbeast coach in the game, Less Elmit,
and also throughout the last couple ofyears, I've been working on my
own with private clients, small groups. Well, that is a beautiful resume.
I mean, she sounds like aLeo to me. She sits there.
All right, we'll give your Leosatus today. So, Mercia,
(06:19):
were you an athlete yourself? Yes, I started dancing at age four,
and I also grew up playing basketball, so it's been a part of my
life forever. I still play basketballsometimes hoop a little bit. So like,
was it the sports and being aroundathletics that really kind of made you
(06:40):
get into mental health? And isthat do you focus primarily on athletes?
Yeah, so that's a great question. Um, there's actually two reasons that
I'm in this field. The firstone is in twenty thirteen, I experienced
a really bad back injury during atraining session and I was training hard and
(07:02):
it was because I experienced a lossin my life that it was my outlet.
So I ended up ignoring the injuryfor an entire year, which compounded
the problem. It's well, obviouslyI couldn't take the pain anymore. I
was dealing with multiple disc issues inmy lumbar sign and at that point I
(07:23):
could no longer walk properly or workeven and I ended up forced to spend
the next five months recovering and healing. Once my back was healed, I
decided to go to school and Iended up finding the government's psychology program.
So I just realized how little supportthere is mentally for people going through an
(07:44):
injury. The doctors were not helpful, especially in the er my counselor.
So I did have a counselor atthe time, she was amazing. But
there's another component to why I wasinjured, and it was that athlete mindset,
pushing through the pain, not knowingwhen to stop or when it's detrimental
(08:05):
to you, thinking you just haveto deal with it, etc. You
know, there needs to be supportfor that just on that topic, like
in rugby. I can say forme personally and probably a lot of us
girls, our pain tolerance from whenwe join the team to now is probably
ridiculous. Like a lot of usplay with injuries and we think that that's
(08:26):
normal, like oh yeah, likeI gotta hit problem, or i gott
a foot problem and I'm just gonnawait until I'm done playing to get it
fixed. Crazy. It's so truebecause like we are, we put so
much for us on being the bestwe can be, like going to the
Olympics and doing all stuff, andnow after the Olympics, everyone and you
know, from men's women's are allgetting treated. Now God, niggas like
(08:46):
our teammates are getting full on hipsurgery. And I'm like, you played
with that, And that's the athletemindset of just okay, I just gotta
play through this. It'll be fine. And it's just the total Olympian this
idea that we're unbreakable. We haveto be strong, we can't be bendable.
Yeah, definitely. It's it's tough. It's tough to know, and
you know, you don't want tolose your job, you don't want to
(09:09):
lose your spot. It's hard.It's been great to come to light with
the athletes and mental health. Ithink, as I said, Simone Biles
has really showed what mental health,how important mental health is. What is
it about athletes and athletics that alsocan be so tough and mentally draining for
them? Well, sports are supercompetitive. Your standards are set extremely high,
(09:33):
more so than you would see forsomeone working just like a typical day
job. So sports requires that mindsetsimilar to like a high risk occupation like
firefighters, surgeons, military, etcetera. And depending on the level that
you're at, a typical schedule ispacked with responsibilities, so it doesn't end
when you go home because you haveto maintain that sharp mind and the healthy
(09:58):
body, and you're constantly working tokeep that spot. So there's pressure to
perform, and you know, ifthere's travel, et cetera, it's not
always ideal. And then on theother side too, if you're a student
athlete, there's only a few hoursin a day a free time, so
you're generally pretty tired and it's notalways easy to be social and have fun,
which I think that everybody needs intheir life. What caliber of athletes
(10:22):
have you worked with? What sportshave you worked with? Is it different
across the different sports in terms ofthe athletes that you're dealing with, That's
an interesting question. Like a lotof the high school kids are very invincible,
you know, they don't see theother side of things. They just
want to go hard and you know, not stop. A lot of the
(10:46):
pro athletes are, especially those whomaybe we're playing in our free agents now,
they're a little more seasoned, sothey know to take care of themselves
a little bit better, you know, on that respective things anyway. But
yeah, I've worked with football players, rugby players, soccer players, baseball
(11:09):
kind of touching on all of them. I'm familiar with a lot of sports.
I don't know all of them,like super in depth, but there
are a few that I do.Yet, were they pretty receptive to you
when the introduction was made of youknow, here's a sports psychologist. Was
it, Hey, you guys haveto talk to her, or if you
want to talk to her, talkto her. And were they receptive to
that at all? You know,Well, first thing, I'm not a
(11:33):
sports psychologist. You have to havea PhD. Yeah, there is a
separation there. You know, wedo very similar things. It just depends
on how you want to call itbased on the degrees. As far as
receptive, I have found that yogais a really good way to introduce athletes
(11:54):
into the realm of mental performance becauseit gets them to sit down, learn
to be present and slow down,and then develop that relationship with them so
that we can start to build andtalk more slow. Okay, So I've
(12:18):
done one of Marissa's yoga classes,and if I'm being honest, it was
hard for me mentally, like myattention span. I just don't have the
patience. I'm like, Okay,this is slow, Like let me hear
you. If we get through,it's I'm gonna go home blow. Have
you done yoga? Has it beensomething beneficial for you? Have you been
able to get to that mental statethat it brings you to? So I
(12:39):
actually I've done yoga with Merris.I did it with her before the Olympics
and it was a great time tolike hang out and She'll like, actually
she did it in a way thatit was meant for athletes and recovery.
But yeah, I'm not good atit as well. I when I get
into schwass and I'm like about,I'm gonna get a cheeseburger after this,
you know, And I but Ihave, like I think, making it
(13:00):
a point to and I'm still workingon it, like using these times a
way to really focus in and helpbecause our swords like hiachras. Peter always
talks about being present, right AndI don't know about you and I,
but I have trouble being present.I know we are. They're always thinking
about the next thing. Yeah,yeah, just always thinking about like the
(13:24):
next thing. Like even in theOlympics. I think what was got me
is we were so we like we'rethinking about the next game, you know,
the next thing that was happening,winning a medal, instead of maybe
more staying present and what was goingon there. Um, So that's the
thing I definitely want to work on. And um I know that we have
like apps like healthy minds, Likedo you suggest apps of people, Marissa,
or what do you suggest? Like, you know, I've heard of
(13:46):
healthy minds. I've heard of likemeditation and yoga. What would you suggest
for a beginner who just wants toget into mental health. Yeah, honestly,
I mean, come take my yogaclass. But but apps are awesome,
And I personally use ad space andyou know, I love it.
I use it daily. It reallyhelps me to have someone else guide me,
(14:13):
because you know, I can't teachyourself. I mean it could,
but it's just nice to have somebodyelse doing it, And so I say
yes. If you're a beginner,there's no expectation. You lay down.
If your mind goes crazy, that'sokay. We just try again the next
day and the next day and thenext day, and over time, if
(14:35):
you're consisted, it becomes something thatreally does start to help you. What
are your staple tips and tricks forathletes who have difficulties being able to stay
present, um, honestly talking toyourself telling yourself that you know, that
is what I need to do rightnow. And breathing so deep breath,
(15:01):
palm down the heart rate, halmeddown the mind and that allows you to
be in that more focused set spacewhere you are just where your feet are.
So the breath, the self talktwo huge factors that I know this
is kind of impromptu, but lowwhat do you think about, Marisa,
like giving us like a one minutemeditation and our listeners joining in and seeing,
(15:26):
you know what that feels like andthen we can get back into the
rest of the conversations. Does thatsound okay? I mean I will try
to say, but yeah, wecan try that if we're yeah, for
let's do it. Does that soundokay, Marissa? Yeah, that's fine.
So you want me to start itnow? Yeah? Okay, all
(15:46):
right. So if you are seated, feet firmly planted on the ground,
put up nice and tall. Ifyou're laying down, just have a nice
straight back and close your eyes,let all your air out. Hands can
rest on the knees or on thebelly, so where you prefer. And
(16:11):
then we'll pick an inhale through thenose for one, two three four,
and then an exhale for two,three, four, five, six seven
(16:33):
eight. Inhale two three four andexhale two three, four, five,
six seven eight inhale two three.Fill up the lungs all the way up
(17:03):
to the collar bone and exhale,but everything's fall nice and easy. In
heale and jack pale. There yougo, take a couple of breaths,
(17:23):
maybe three or four, just tokind of calm down a little bit.
I'll be honest, I can't inhalefor four seconds. The first time,
I was like two seconds, justheld it. I was like poking on.
I can't for four seconds. I'veI've tried it before, and I'm
(17:44):
like there's something wrong. One timenine and I did like a challenge where
we swam underwater for who could swimthe longest. I could probably do like
maybe ten meters. I have nobreath to anyway. Anyway, thank you
for doing that. That was actuallyreally relaxing about. That's why the practice
truly. I gotta work on mylung space. So one thing I want
(18:07):
to talk to you about is somethingcalled post Olympics depression. I don't know
if you've watched this a documentary onHBO Max called The Weight of Gold with
Michael Phelps, and the main topicis about how after the Olympics, this
amazing time right where people win medalsand they have the best experience of their
life, they do something they've workedtheir whole life to be and they're called
Olympians, and then they get what'ssomething called post Olympics depression or post Olympics
(18:32):
blues. Why do you think thatis? Why do you think so many
Olympians go through that? Yeah,so that's a really important question to ask.
And I'll say this, Um,what goes up must come down.
So I'm going to get a littlescience e here. But most of us
have heard of the chemical we've producedcalled dopamine, and dopamine is a molecule
(18:57):
of motivation. So you it's theOlympics, you feel amazing, You're high
on life, you're proud, andthere's so many other emotions. Right you
feel on top of the world.For some this is going to be the
greatest achievement of their career. You'regetting dopamine really is over and over throughout
that entire experience, and it keepsbuilding. But afterwards that level of dopamine
(19:22):
drops, but it doesn't just drop. It drops be low that normal baseline
level that you had before, andthe extent to which it drops the low
baseline is propartial to high how highthat peak went. So if you achieved
a dream, didn't get the resultsyou wanted and then now it's over,
(19:42):
well you're going to feel quite abit lower. So that drop in mood
and motivation is that drop in thatbaseline level of dopamine. And that being
said, no one should be hardon themselves for this because totally normal,
and it will take some time tobring that basine level back up, and
(20:03):
it will come back up, andthat's it's important to know, like you
will be okay again, and therereally isn't anything that you can do other
than to just ride that wave andlet everything read set. And I know
you guys, some of you gettime off after the Olympics, and I
feel like that's really helpful for ourlisteners. I'm sure you follow me and
(20:26):
Low and our journey and you canprobably notice, like after the Olympics,
both both of our down times andsituations looked a lot different. So I
think Marissa, my question for youis with post Olympic depression, is it
like like what makes some athletes experienceit and others not so much? Do
(20:49):
you have any insight on that itcould be because of if this is the
greatest thing that you've ever achieve andthere's a lot of compounding there, like
dopamine dopamine, dopamine along that wholejourney. For some people, if they
put everything on that like this isgoing to be the greatest thing ever,
(21:12):
then they will hit that much lowerlevel. But if you have someone who
is I had a lot of highsin their career, maybe they've learned how
to manage that with either self talkor just how they how they respond to
it um emotionally. They're not asattached to it and they just like the
(21:33):
experience of it. They're just kindof staying at that level. Their base
sign isn't going to drop below people. So that could be why. Yeah,
Because watching Low and her journey withthe post Olympics, I started questioning
myself of you know, if Iam not feeling that way, like did
(21:57):
I not care? Did I youknow, did I not do enough?
Did it not matter to me?And like questioning like is something wrong with
me that I that everybody wasn't havingthe same reaction. And I'm sure Low
you can speak on that, likewas that how you were feeling? But
(22:17):
on the opposite side, I am. I think in a way at times
I felt almost selfish for feeling thisway because like we all went through the
same thing, right, and soI'm like, oh, why do I
feel so much worse? I thinkeveryone is feel worse. I think for
me because of that one game init that really I put a lot of
the blame on myself for it.And I know I'm trying to get out
of that, but I think itis tough because I feel almost as though
(22:42):
I'm like, I hate that I'mputting it all my shoulders. Because somebody
commented on a TikTok of mine waslike, if you win a game,
you would never say it's all yourfault, right, it would never be
like, yeah, that I wonthat game for us. But if you
lose a game, it's so easyto be like, oh I did that,
I was the one who was toblame. So I think that's when
we had different experiences, right,And that's so so key. We had
(23:03):
such different experience at the Olympics,and I think my thing was as well.
I was such on such a highat the Olympics, right, like
TikTok, Everything's going so so well. I'm getting all these followers, getting
all this notoriety, and then I'mlike, oh, this is just such
a nice wave to ride, youknow, and then that and one fourteen
minute game, it just all camecrashing down, and I, again,
I put the blame on myself.So I think that's why it really affected
(23:27):
me. I wish that if Ihadn't put the blame on myself, if
I hadn't after that quarterfinal game feltlike it was my fault, I think
it would be a different experience,right, Yeah, So that's something I'm
working through to not fully feel likeit was my fault, which is very
hard, and that's kind of whyI started talk to somebody, because you
(23:48):
know, everyone being a team sport, everyone says it's not your fault,
but it's very hard to get yourmind to agree with you, right,
yeah, yeah, but I amhappy to be talking to somebody now.
And I think, like you talkedabout, you were you were forced to
go talk to a sports psychi becauseI think at times I do feel bad.
I'm like, I'm an Olympian,Like, why should I Why do
(24:10):
I feel this way? I getto play the sport I love every day
as a job, right, Ishouldn't get to feel this way if people
were like, oh, you're arugby player for living, that's so awesome,
Like, but there is a lotof struggles we go through, and
I think, I know we bothprobably put a lot of anticipation on getting
a medal, right, and thatwas like our our goal, and then
I think I forgot about what anamazing journey it was all together and I
(24:33):
did that just all went to theside and I only thought about the one
thing. Yeah, Well, Ijust want to say kudos to you because
you know you're taking the steps andI think that's an important thing, and
that's something that I love to seenot only in myself and in others.
It's like putting actions to things thatyou know are important and necessary and need
to happen. So I think that'sa huge step in that. You know,
(24:55):
I already think you're strong and braveand courageous, but this is like
another level not only to do it, but to share it with the world,
Like not many people can do that. Yeah, but see now,
I'm not gonna be the fifth thirstyOlympian. I'm gonna be like, oh,
that's sad Olympian. Y'all follow thatsad rugby Olympian and TikTok whatever.
(25:17):
It's okay, I'll be the posterchild for post Olympic blues. But I'm
doing much much better. Um Mercy, do you have any questions for us
as well? Um let me thinkabout that, because nice, So you're
not You're gonna try to see atherapist, right or somebody? Yeah,
(25:37):
and right now, like we havea sports psychologist, so I'm still working
with him. But I feel likeoutside of sports, there's things that it's
like, you know that I've dealtwith or like not even aware that I've
dealt with and it was something thathas affected me long term and I'm not
aware of it. So I'm justsuper curious, like to speak with somebody
(26:03):
about my personal life and see ifI can break open any locked doors or
like discover any new things about myselfthat will allow me to be a better
person in the long run. Sothat's my goal right now with that is
to kind of have a team up. Therapist will get you with all your
people. Now, what are somethings that you do personally to help your
(26:25):
mental health? You can probably seea lot of it, like through my
Instagram. I love spending time withmy family and my friends, like going
to North Carolina and being around mygirls and my mom and my aunts,
Like they make me feel good,Like they remind when you go home,
Like you're constantly reminded of your accomplishmentsand all the amazing things you do.
(26:49):
And I think that's something that welack sometimes we try to be too humble
and we don't focus on the positivethings and the amazing things that we have
done enough. But when those negativethings come, we're ready to put those
out of pedestal. So I thinkthat's a mental switch that we have to
have, but coming home, spendingtime with my family and friends, going
out, having a good time,doing things that make me feel good.
(27:12):
I think that's the best way thatI've been handling mental health. But I
also know that it requires more.So, as I said, I'm trying
to be like you and take thatnext step to get a personal therapist.
Gosh, nice, I love that, love that. What about you?
I think for me, I feltlike going home was so great, but
(27:36):
the problem was I feel so comfortableat home that I just literally can't fake.
I couldn't fake like being happier.Every emotion I had, I felt
like full force because I couldn't fakeit. So I just had some very
down days because and you know,my sisters laid there like snipe, they
just pick it up. They're like, me alone is not doing the all
today, We're gonna hop on that. So I couldn't take it at all,
(28:00):
which is awesome. But then sometimesI'm like, all right, I'm
fine, guys, chill. Yeah. But I think going home, I
think I love going on walks,I love hanging out with you know,
friends and whatnot. And I thinkfor me, it's like getting my mind
off of it, you know,and doing something that isn't Like again,
I'm on TikTok all the time,which can be very detrimental to your health,
So trying to figure out to balancethere. I do have a question,
(28:23):
why do you think there is astigma against seeing either you know,
a mental skills coach, a sportspsychologist, or just it against mental health
in general? What do you feelgood? Be the thing that opens the
door to that for let's say highschoolers or even college or pro asses.
(28:47):
What would it take to make thatmore normal? I mean, I think
for me personally, and it's beensomething I've been trying to do on my
TikTok and whatnot on apps is likebe very open about my journey and like
posting that I went to see mytherapist today or it's okay not to be
okay, kaid ask for help.But as I've said, and as Nia
and I Ni and are these big, strong, very confident women who we
(29:12):
grow up like again having that ideathat life is good, everything kind of
working out what do we have tobe sad about? What do we have
to not feel good about? Andso there's this stigma around like oh,
well, if you're what you have, everything you're a rugby player, why
are you so sad? And sowhy would you ask for help? I
just think for me, a thingI say is like, you can't compare
(29:34):
anybody's sadness or anybody's like everyone goesthrough their own things, right, so
that stuff And I think with um, we have to put this front on
of being so strong as athletes thatwe don't want to go to mental health
professionals because that might show that we'reweak and that we can't take care of
things on our own and we can'tpush through like we've been taught our whole
(29:55):
lives too. And I think hello, pretty much set it. Like in
the black community, nobody goes totherapy. That's what it was like.
I think what black people have dealtwith so long, they had to fight
for everything on their own. SoI think a lot of deep independence came
(30:17):
with that throughout our culture to wherelike you shouldn't need help, you can
figure it out on your own.And then also thinking like back then,
probably all the therapists were white.What is a white person? How is
a white person going to help meas a black person in this world?
So I think now having better awarenessof the importance of therapy, regardless of
(30:37):
the color of the person that you'regoing to see, has become very important
and more apparent in the culture andmore accepted. But also the variety of
therapists that are out there now forus, whether it's in the specific field
they're in or the race that theyare, the background they've come from,
there's more people out there that couldbe relatable to you and whatever since you
(31:00):
need them to be. So Ithink that's what it was for me.
Like me and my sports psychologists talka lot about the fact that he's like,
I'm like, thank you for trustingme because I'm a white man trying
to help you a black woman inrugby. Like, that's just two completely
different worlds, So thank you fortrusting me. So I think a lot
of it comes down to trusting peoplein their education, trusting people and their
(31:26):
intentions for you, knowing that they'repure, and knowing that it's okay to
ask for help. You can't doeverything by yourself, and if you try
to, as you said, whenthings are up, they have to come
down. So I think that's prettymuch my mindset on it. That's all
good points again to get back to, like different experiences, right, like
you and I have such different experiencesas athletes, as women, as rugby
(31:49):
players, not just because of likeour level of ability, but are the
color of our skin. And it'sjust so much to take into account.
Um. I do have one morequestion for you, Mersa, and that's
is do you find it different workingwith men versus women? Yes? And
no? And that's a super interestingtopic too. Um what helped me get
(32:12):
I mean obviously being with less andthat whole program, it was a bit
of a buy in for the maleathletes. You know, I think I
think they do look at me thesame way that Naya said. You know,
I'm a white woman and a lotof them are black athletes. And
(32:36):
you know, I don't know exactlywhere I'm meant to be, but I
do feel called to help people,and so you know, you're not going
to be for everybody, but Ido believe that the yoga is a really
great way for them to connect withme. And see, you know,
I do specialize in this. Thisis what I'm here to do, this
(32:59):
is what I'm passionate about, andthis is where my all of my knowledge
lies. So you know, ifthey're open enough to be able to buy
into that. At least you neverknow what you can learn from somebody,
Like you said, Um, it'sour experiences that can't connect us, and
you know, I might be ableto open their eye to something completely different
(33:20):
that they never would have thought ofbefore and that could help them. I
think that even gets into even youknow, we're athletes, we're female athletes,
but I think it might even beharder for male athletes in that they're
supposed to be the like, unfeeling, unemotional. They're the toughest, the
strongest of us, so they havethis such a stigma around them that I
(33:43):
don't see many of them talking aboutmental health, and I think that could
be cool if we hear more aboutit, because I am the pressure that
they have to face as well beingbeing male athletes. Um, it's also
something that I think is very shouldbe talked about more and should be people
should know that it's okay even male, female, black, white, it's
(34:04):
okay to ask for help there.Yeah, and I do see do see
the woman being just a little bitmore open to the idea of it.
Yes, so, but yeah,you're completely right. Well, thank you
so much Marissa for joining us onthis episode. Of mental health. I
thought your input was very insightful,and thank you for you know, helping
(34:29):
people get to a place of positivityand mental peace. I think that's something
that has been really getting blown upin the world lately and that's fantastic to
see. So thank you for beinghere. Thank you guys so much.
Appreciate you. When's your next yogasash one? Can I come and not
be flexible? I'll hit you upat any day, girl, any day.
(34:52):
I'm here for you any day.All right. So guys, now
we're getting into a cup questions.Um, first off, Nia, how
are you doing? That's to somebody'slike how are you how? Was it
(35:15):
a how are you doing? Orwas it a how are you doing?
How are we? I think itwas one of those. Um, so
I am doing pretty good. Iactually just got back from Memphis and played
in a tournament, which sounds nutsbecause we just got back from the Olympics.
But I had a really good time. It was good to be in
a new environment but still involved inrugby. My body felt good out there,
(35:39):
so um that was very reassuring,especially going into the Olympics with a
little knick knack and my ankle andstuff. So being able to see that
the time offs after the Olympics washelpful for my body. So right now
I'm just back with you and allthe other lovely ladies on Thursday. Yo,
yo, is it on? Ithink it might be. I dude.
(36:02):
I ran a bronco with Carlin andNicole last week. Yeah. I
was like, you guys, goahead, I'll catch up. I'm right
behind you. Let me get likea three minute head start. It was
thirty seconds different for you. Rightawesome. I personally, as you've seen,
(36:22):
and you know, we haven't chattedmuch, but i haven't been doing
that well. But I've just been, I guess, trying to make an
admission to try to do well.It's it's been a lot of those times
where it's like, man, itreally feels like it's not gonna get better.
Yeah, and it just feels likethere's like clouds over the sun and
the clouds just won't leave. Andthen but it's like I know the sun's
(36:43):
there and I know things are goingto get better, but just at times,
you know, you get sucked intowhat is depression or anxiety and you
feel like it's not gonna get better. But it's been good to be around
my family. Um, they're justmy support, just like you, you
know, having your friends and family. And I am excited to be back
to training with the team again andhave a have a purpose. And I
think a lot of change is coming, which is stressful but also exciting.
(37:07):
You know, we're in the huntfor a new head coach, we have
new girls coming in, so alot of stuff is happening, but I
am excited for what's gonna what's gonnahappen. Yeah, And I think that
rolls perfectly into the next Cup question, which is how do you handle anxiety
around things you can't control, forexample, all these changes that we're about
to go through. You know,I don't know. I feel like I've
(37:30):
always been very good with handling kindof my emotions, and just this past
couple of months, I haven't beenas good for me. It's um did
I talked to my mom all time? I called her up the other night
and I was like about to unloadon her, and I was like,
I literally just call this woman toshare every bad thing that has happened to
me. She's like my sounding board, I think talking to somebody, but
(37:54):
for me, it's like going onwalks and still having fun because I think
we get wrapped up in rugby.So I think you and I both like
to have fun outside of rugby,right, like, yeah, not letting
rugby dominate our lives, whether that'sgoing out at night, enjoying a good
meal, hang with friends, likefinding that balance. And I think for
me, like it's like mental cuesbecause for me, I am an organization
(38:19):
freak. I like to know what'sgoing on. I like to be in
control. So with rugby, likewe've dealt with so much things that are
out of our control where I've hadto be able to tell myself literally like
it's out of your control. Youdon't have to speak up, it's not
going to have an effect. Justkeep it to yourself, or go talk
(38:42):
to your therapists, like, orgo talk to your best friend and just
like you know, release a littlebit, but just don't unleash. Yeah.
So I think that's been the thingfor me of like just reminding myself
can't do anything about it. Itis what it is. Go find something
else to put your attention on.So I think that's the way I've been
(39:05):
handling it. I guess we'll findout and whenever I do find a therapist
if that's good or not. Butactually she's like, yeah, you that
sucks. That was a terrible way. All Right's a last question. Did
you have any mental health issues beforesports? Or sports the culprit for you.
I used to get frustrated a lotin like my classes when I didn't
(39:29):
understand things, and so of courseit was like ask, don't you don't
know? Ask And it came toa point where I was known from my
teachers as like the girl who askedtoo many damn questions, and they made
it a bad thing in a wayto where it just started bubbling in me
because I'm like, I don't wantto ask because I don't want them to
(39:52):
kick me out to think that I'mdisturbing the class. But I also don't
know the answer, and I thinkthat drive drove me nuts for a while.
And that's kind of where the thingslike realizing that sucking my thumb was
a stress reliever for me, towhere I would literally be in class and
(40:12):
when I didn't understand a math questionand I was too scared to ask and
I was literally ready to cry,I would put my thumb in my mouth
and all the stress would go away. So it's like things like that.
For a long time, I didn'teven know that was a coping mechanism for
me. So that's why I thinkwhen I do finally go to therapy,
I'm going to discover a lot ofthings about me that I didn't realize.
(40:35):
So it definitely came before sports,especially being in the military and having to
move around a lot, but sportsdefinitely was the icing on the cake in
terms of stress. What about you, I think for me, sports was
kind of the thing that helped me. You know, it really was the
way that I could release all thisI was. I guess I was a
(40:59):
very angry child. I just hadto go like play angry angry animals with
somebody, so it was like wouldget angry. But sports was a way
that I coped and it was somethingthat I was really good at. So
it kind of helped me. Andit's and it's always been that way.
I think now that we're in thisenvironment of it being our job, it
just becomes much more streussful instead ofit being like a fun club thing.
Yeah, so that's why it becomesstressful. But I don't think it's a
(41:20):
culprit for me. I think it'sme setting myself up for something and then
like setting myself up for winning amedal, setting myself up for doing all
these things, and then it notcoming true, and then I've kind of
I've ruined my chances of really appreciatingwhat was in the moment. Right,
But I'm gonna keeps playing sports.I love those, Yeah, And I
can agree with that too, becauseI remember like being home for that month
(41:44):
after the Olympics and like just allthe stress building up because I wasn't working
out. Don't tell my future coach, and I was just chilling and doing
whatever, and like didn't have theopportunity to hit somebody and release stress or
run run it, run off myanger or you know, pass the ball,
like to be able to release astar. So I was looking forward
(42:05):
to getting back to training and releasingthe stress. It's like it's coming in
from both directions. You for both, All right, guys, Well that's
all we have for you today.If you could subscribe to the leos Den
on your podcast app, that wouldbe awesome and we'd love you forever.
Show notes are on our webpage atwessports dot com, Listen tablios Den and
(42:29):
make sure to follow at with Sportson all social media platform for more great
podcasts on women's sports. And thechallenge that we have for you guys today
is first to be aware that it'sokay to ask for help and to get
help if you feel like you needit. Even me and low as Olympic
athletes need help and that's probably hopefullysomething that you've discovered over this conversation.
(42:51):
So the next time you're dealing witha situation that is stressful or overwhelming,
we challenge you to share it withsomebody close to you and get some advice
or just release some of that tension. Thank you, guys so much for
tuning in. I hope you enjoyedthis conversation Again, make sure you check
us out on Instagram at leos DenUnderscore with Sports to stay updated on the
(43:12):
next episode. Whether you came forthe rugby and stayed with the Shenanigans,
we hope you join us again inthe leos Den. Bye, peace out.
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