March 26, 2025 • 46 mins
In this episode, Leslie sit downs with Brandi Peetz for a candid look at the struggles of dealing with infertility and the impact that has had on her and her family’s life. From her time on the Spokane Valley City Council to owning her own business with her husband, Leslie dives into Brandi’s story and the journey she has experienced along the way.
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#LesliesLowedown #IVF #WellnessJourney #Infertility
Hear more from The Leslie's Lowdown on Life Podcast on KHQ here: https://www.khq.com/podcasts/lowedown/
#LesliesLowedown #IVF #WellnessJourney #Infertility
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
All right, welcome everybody to Leslie's Lowdown on life. I'm
really excited about this conversation and really excited to introduce
you to Brandy Pete's I've actually known Brandy.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
For well quite a while.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
We go back to when you were just a kid,
because you grew up with my daughter Melanie. Yes, but
you also might recognize Brandy's name because well, deputy mayor
of this Pokane Valley, six years on the city Council
for the Spokane Valley and you ran for the fourth district,
so you've been heavily rooted in this Spokane Valley for many, many,
(00:41):
many years. Yes, yeah, I'm making you sound old, but
you're just a kid. But we're here today. We're going
to talk about a really important conversation and Brandy and
I were just talking a second ago about how much
it's not talked about, and it's women's health, and in
particular today, infertility. And I'm going to give you a
couple of specifics here. One in six people, that equates
(01:02):
to sixteen point six of a people worldwide are infertile.
And the definition of being infertile, because I had to
look this up, is if you've not been able to
get pregnant after trying for a year or more, and
over the age of thirty five, it's six months or more.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
And then there's so much that goes along with that.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
So with that said, Brandy, thank you so much for
being here, being vulnerable, being willing to talk about this.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. I
couldn't imagine having this conversation with anybody else.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
No, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Well, this is something that a lot of people have
dealt with, and it's a daily struggle for many many women,
and it's it's incredibly difficult. And I think that because
it's not spoken about as often, people don't quite understand
what you go through. And I will say I did
(01:59):
kind of go on a deep dive last night because
you and I talked yesterday that there's really not many
services available. So tell me, you know what, take us
on your journey. How did this start? You've been in politics.
You actually decided to step away from politics, so tell
us about that.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Yeah, so this started very young for me. You know,
there were times where I would have to go home
from school because of some of the pain that I
would get. I would have to get on certain medications
in order to you know, like do day to day activities.
And you know, back then, you know, things weren't very
well researched, and so some of the things you know
(02:38):
that some of us or people like me have experienced,
you know, are coming into us in our adult life.
You know, some of the medications that I've had to take,
and so it's it's hard to say if you know,
some of those things that we did back then, are
you know, contributing to what's happening now, or if it's
genetic and things like that. There's still a lot of research.
(02:58):
But I've been dealing with this for quite some time.
And it wasn't until my husband and I have been
together since we were twenty and twenty one years old,
and so it wasn't until we had about twenty five
or we started talking about having a family and everyone
kept asking why don't you have kids, and you know,
all my friends, you know, by that time it had
kids and had families, and so it was really then
(03:20):
that we started really diving into why we hadn't had
a family yet.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Had you tried or had you just.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Not tried not to get pregnanty right, Yeah, no, we
weren't actively trying, but we weren't actively not trying to. So,
you know, that's always the first question that everybody asks
you when you meet someone. How many kids do you have?
You know, what's your family like? And you know, at
that point it wasn't you know, a trigger. But these days,
(03:51):
you know, when people ask that question, especially when you're
knee deep in an infertility journey, it can be it
can be hard to answer that question.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, really difficult, because you're right that it does seem
to be that first question to a married couple, Oh
do you have kids? Are you planning on having kids?
So at what point then did you decide? Because I
know that you were you were in the middle of
your career and you were very busy with that, and
again you and your husband have a lot also going
(04:19):
on in this Spokane valley with different businesses. So what
point did you take a look and go, oh, why
aren't we pregnant or should we talk about this?
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Yeah? And so it was about you know, mid twenties.
I was probably about like twenty six or twenty seven
when we went to a doctor here locally and got
checked out and was trying to figure out, you know,
if there was something wrong with either one of us,
you know what steps we could take. And you know,
I didn't have a good first impression with the first
(04:51):
doctor we had gone through, and so we kind of
just got a little disillusioned and kind of put it
on the back burnner. And then the opportunity to run
for politics came. And you know, when I do something,
I do it. You know, both feed in, you know,
all the way in. And so I wanted to be
the best council person I could be. I wanted to
do so much for the community, and I made that
(05:14):
my priority and I thought I had time, and as
I am finding out, I did not have time. And
I found that out about halfway through my career, and
so I really started to try to, you know, try
to change my priorities and put that first. But you know,
when you're working a full time job, you're doing city council,
and you know, we have a business and you know,
(05:37):
trying to have a social life and all these other,
you know, things pulling you in in several directions, it's
really hard. And so we put that on the back
burner and then we really in about twenty eighteen, twenty
nineteen went to a different doctor and found out what
was going on, and it was unexplained in fertility, which
(05:59):
you know, when you get all these tests and you
have all this technology, you think, you know they're just
going to tell you and you're going to overcome it,
and you know you have all these resources, but it's
there's just so much that's unknown. And then COVID happened.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
And then COVID happened, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
And that put a lot of things on the back
burner for us. We were actually through a child's hope
here and Spokane got through that whole process, and then
COVID happened. Vaccinations, all these different things were you know,
put into the mix of that, and then they ended
up closing down and so that was no longer an
option for us. And there really aren't a whole lot
(06:38):
of adoption resources here locally, very few. And also because
of the twenty twenty one Keeping Families Together Act, Washington
wants to reunify families rather than have them be adopted.
And so, you know a lot of people oftentimes will
say it's okay, you can still adopt. Well, it's complicated,
(07:00):
and we've been down that road and unfortunately it you know,
it's especially if you want a newborn, you have to
wait at least two years, and so it's there's a
lot of different things and complications that people don't realize.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
I know, actually, as you're sit you know, talking through this,
I'm a little bit overwhelmed because it is so much
to think about.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
So if I could walk it back just.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
A second, because you had mentioned that when you were younger,
you had some some issues, and I would imagine, like
with minstrel cycle, did you have endometriosis, because I know
that's a concern.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
I have endometriosis and I have PCOS, so it's a
hormonal imbalance, and then you have the cysts and the pain,
and you know, the chronic pain, and so you know,
it's it just becomes a part of you, and you're
always in pain. And because it's not something people can
see outwardly, you know, everyone thinks you're fine, and you know,
just take some tile and all, and you know, put
(07:54):
a heating pad on, you'll be fine. But it's it's excruciating,
and you know, it's a lot more common now than
it was back when I was in school, and you know,
there weren't resources back then neither.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
I think we've come a long way as far as
that goes, because women's health has been and I don't
want to say taboo, and maybe that's not the right word,
but that's the word that comes to my mind right up.
But it's not been one of those things that we've
freely talked about, and menstrual cycles and endometriosis insist and
the pain that goes along with it. You're so right,
they're not seen and so they're not spoken about, and
(08:30):
therefore we can't fix them or do anything to help.
It just felt like it got swept under the carpet,
and you probably felt that way.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
It's very isolating. Yeah, oftentimes you feel very lonely, even
if you're in a crowd full of people. And for me,
because of the career that I chose, I had to
keep a lot of this under wraps because you know,
I'm not a person that fears what other people think
of me. But also you know, you don't want to
let people into that part of your life. It's very
(08:59):
you know, can be emotional, and being in politics, you're
not supposed to be emotional, and oftentimes people would you know,
I'd be knee deep in hormones and you know, going
through a retrieval cycle, and people would tell me, oh, Brandy,
you know you're being a little too emotional about that,
and or you know, oh, maybe maybe you shouldn't have
done that, or you know, you should have done this instead,
(09:20):
and it's it's isolating because people don't understand what it
is that you're going through, and you're trying to put
on a brave face, and you know, you don't want
to talk about, you know, what you're going through because
some might see it as negative, or you know, they
don't know what to say to you. And so oftentimes
a lot of people will either ignore you all together
or they won't talk to you about it. And you know,
(09:43):
sometimes you just want somebody to say, you know what,
I'm I'm here for you, or even a hug, or
even I'll pray for you, or you know, I'm so
sorry you're going through that. It's just the smallest things
that people could do to help support people who are
going through this type of journey.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
And so often, and I think people try to find
that perfect thing to say to fix it or give
you some words of wisdom, and I think that goes
with somebody who's going through something like you are somebody
who's suffered a death or a loss, and really the
most important thing you can say is I'm here for
you if you need me, right, you know, I love you.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Yes well, and I think too. You know, it's hard
being on both sides of it, and I can see
from both perspectives. You know, it's it's tough, you know,
because you want you know, if you have kids, or
if you're pregnant, or you know, other things are going on.
You don't know how that other person feels. And I'm
speaking for myself. I'm always happy for those people who
(10:41):
are able to be successful in their journey. But at
the same time, you're mourning your journey, right. You don't
get to see them graduate, you don't get to see them,
you know, become parents, you don't. You know, you're mourning
all of the things that you don't get to have
but other people do. And then you you know, start
thinking about like why can't my body do the one
(11:01):
single thing that it was meant to do, And so
you you know, you're kind of in a in a
tug a war situation because you want to be happy
for everybody and you are, but at the same time,
then you're reminded of the things that you can't do.
And so and going back to the conversations, you know,
like I know, everybody has been very supportive, and you know,
(11:23):
some people do say things though that can really not
be great in somebody going through a journey like mine.
And so I just want to remind people that, you know,
telling people that they can you know, you can just
adopt or just relax, or you know, my sister in
law got pregnant and you know when she stopped trying,
or you know, I maybe you're not praying enough, or
(11:47):
maybe you know, all of those things. I I've heard
them more times than I can count, and you know,
and always coming from people who have good intentions, but
maybe saying something like you know what, I'm really sorry
you're going through that, or how can I help you?
How can I pray for you? Or you know that
must be very frustrating that you've gone through all of
(12:10):
those things. I'm so sorry can go a long way
with people. And I just want to encourage people to
reach out. If you know somebody going through it, they
may say that they're strong enough, they need help, they
need support, even if it's just a hey, I'm thinking
about you or you know, I care about you, and
(12:31):
it just it goes a long.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Way empathetic as opposed to being sympathetic.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Right, Yeah, I'm going to dive in.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
You mentioned going through some of the cycles, and if
there's anything you're not comfortable with answering, you just tell me,
because this is tough. But I want to ask some
of the hard questions because I know that there are
people just like you. They're sitting out here and they're wondering,
they're watching, maybe they feel alone. Maybe you have a
part of your tea that will help them. So you
(13:02):
tried it's IVF, correct, and that's expensive. It's like what
I saw was fifteen to twenty thousand dollars per cycle.
So you tried IVF.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Yes, So obviously we went down the adoption route and
so that was at the time a little bit cheaper.
Through that program that we had looked into. You know,
there were some resources that were available through churches, but
of course, as I said, they closed, and so a
lot of the places that are still around now are
(13:34):
and anywhere from thirty to fifty thousand dollars and so
that is off the table, and again because of the
you know, the laws that are in place in Washington,
it's not an option. So we did what was called
an IUI and that's where they take the sperm and
then they insert it into into U. And then we
did that, and those are typically anywhere from about fifteen
(13:57):
hundred to two thousand and so I did that uring
my political career, and of course I had too much
stress and so that did not take And so that
was the first and only procedure that I have had
as far as a transfer is concerned. I've done I
(14:17):
can't even count how many. It's somewhere between five and
eight cycles. And then I think I did five physical
retrievals of getting eggs. And so for anyone who doesn't
know how that works, you have to take a bunch
of shots. And because of my situation, I was taking
(14:37):
anywhere from five to eight shots a day, which can
be very painful. And obviously it's hormones, so you know,
it's very up and down. You have to do it
at a certain time and so your schedule, you know,
especially with city council, you know, it was very difficult
for me to have to keep that schedule, plus you're
(14:58):
having to do labs, and so I was at the
doctor's office every other day getting an ultrasound, getting blood
drawn three and four times a week, you know, and
you're taking those shots twice a day, so seven in
the morning and seven at night for several weeks at
a time. And so you know, keeping the schedule and
having to do all of the shots and all. You know,
(15:20):
that doesn't include any of the patches that you have
to wear, any of the extra supplements or pills or
anything that you have to take prior to that, and
so it's a lot. And so we did the retrievals, and.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
So that's when they go in. They take the eggs yes.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
And so then depending on whether you're doing a fresh
transfer or not, they will have your partner or whatever
sperm you're using come in and then they put them together.
And so they have to be a blasticist is what
it's called. And I believe it's five days that they
have to keep growing and if they stop growing at
that point there are no longer viable. Well, we did
(16:01):
that four or five times and they did not get
past the blastocyst stage. And also because of my age,
because I waited so long because I put my career first.
I didn't have very many follicles, and your follicles are
what carry your eggs, and as you age, you know,
you're shedding those eggs every time you have a cycle,
(16:23):
and so low ovarian reserve. I'm also fighting against as
well because of my age.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
So for reference, how old are you?
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Honestly, I'm trying to even think about this. I think
I'm thirty eight. I think somewhere.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Around in there, somewhere in there. Yeah, I get that.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah, which is interesting because I look at thirty eight,
it's still being so young. But you're right, every year,
you know, you lose those follicles as you shed through
a minstrel cycle, and I think the rest of us
take that for granted.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Yeah, So I I will say, you know, I it's
it's been a journey we have. We've done a lot
of retrievals. This last December, we were supposed to have
done our first transfer of IVF, which is when they
take you know, the sperm in the egg and it's
(17:19):
an embryo and then they implant it. Well, because of
our failed attempts to create an embryo, we had to
go through a third party and adopt embryos from someone else.
So that in itself has honestly been one of the
hardest I think.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Yeah, talk about that, I don't. Okay, So adopt embryos
from another.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Female and male and male? Okay.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Yeah, So it's either two random samples that have come
together to create embryo, or it's one person and then
they got a random sample, or it's couples who have
came together and had embryos.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
So what does that process look like? Then you say,
adopt an embryo? What does that look like?
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Yeah, so you go through a third party. Hours in particular,
we just submitted a profile and you know, had to
do a consultation. You have to decide whether or not
you want high or low to be able to talk
to the kids. So you know, if you want to
have a relationship with the parents, you can. If you
(18:24):
don't want to, you don't have to. But obviously, you know,
a lot of people who are donating embryos want to keep,
you know, that that relationship and want to know what's
going on with their embryos. And so based on what
criteria you give them, they match you with other couples
and so for us, we actually matched a couple. They
(18:45):
looked similar to Chad and I, and so we were
very excited, and you know, went through the process. You
have to get a lawyer, you have to do They
make you do counseling to see if you're fit enough
to go through this process, which is a whole nother
piece because you know, everybody else gets to have kids
and doesn't have to be evaluated for that, but we do.
(19:06):
And so once you get through that process and you
match with that family, depending on what kind of spectrum
they're on, whether it's high or low, you either meet
that family or you go to a lawyer and you
drop paperwork and then they transfer the eggs to your
clinic or the embryos to your clinic. So we matched
with them. We paid for them, which was a lot
(19:28):
of money. It was between fifteen and twenty thousand dollars,
and so those got transferred to our clinic and then
we were going to do a transfer and then I
had to go through the shots and process all over again.
But this is progesterone, so they were much more painful
and trigger shots and all of the rest, and so
(19:50):
I had done everything. Everything looked great, I did all
my labs and it was the morning of our procedure.
An hour before I got a phone call from my
nurse saying that none of those eggs were could be
used and we purchased seven.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
How did that happen?
Speaker 3 (20:06):
We don't know. We are still trying to figure that out.
We're still kind of reeling from that process. But essentially
they come on what they call a straw, and I
don't know if they got improper hand you know, improperly
handled from the clinic we got them from. But you know,
(20:28):
if if you there's different ways that embryos can come,
you know, on different mediums, and so we're still trying
to figure that out. But thankfully the third party that
we used with the embryo donations and our doctor and
the lawyers are all coming together and you know, hopefully
we'll get something figured out. So we're in the process
(20:49):
of matching with another family. But during that time, a
couple of weeks ago, actually we had matched with another
family and she had a thirty three embryos, I believe,
and she was giving them to six different families and
we matched. But this was a situation where I had
to meet her and she decided to pass. So, you know,
(21:15):
it's a lot of ups and downs, it's a rollercoaster,
and there's just a lot of things that people don't realize,
you know, what you go through in a process like this,
and you know, we're we're trying to stay positive, and
you know, we thankfully my family is amazing, Chad's family
has been amazing, and you know are my nurses and
(21:39):
everybody who's in that process is coming alongside of us,
and hopefully you will have a successful transfer someday.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
I mean I've learned so much from you already in
the short time that we've been talking. The embryo though,
the adopting the embryos, and then finding out the morning
of that.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
They're not viable.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
I mean, I can't even imagine your body's already gone
through all of these, like you said, ups and downs,
because you're you're doing the hormone injections and you're preparing
yourself and then and then that's just a mental blow.
So you've taken the physical blow and then you get
the mental blow to go along with that. And so
I think what keeps going through my head is, Okay,
(22:23):
what happened to them? And I mean, they're just no guarantee.
There's no guarantee.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
There's no guarantee. And that's something too I think that
people don't realize is yes, you pay all the money,
and yes we have all of this technology, and it's amazing,
you know, to be able to have these alternatives, but
nothing is guaranteed. Adoption, you know, is a little more guaranteed,
but with you know, the laws that are in place,
(22:51):
it makes it a little more complicated. But with IVF,
everything is still up to chance. There's no there's no
fail proof way to go about it, so you're still
taking that risk.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
I think you were talking about you know, I think
as little girls, most of us and not everybody kind
of dreams of growing up and being a mom and
doing this. Why do we play with dolls and do.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
All of that?
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Right?
Speaker 2 (23:17):
But the process that you're.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Explaining it just it's powerful. It's incredibly powerful what you
go through to get an end result that feels like
it just keeps getting pushed back. So you've done IVF.
You've talked about adoption, but we don't have resources, many resources,
(23:41):
and I don't even know what that looks like as
far as adoption goes.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Because you're open.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
It sounds like to everything, but you know, whatever is
meant to be, you're open to that. Talk about that
adoption process once again, because you were going through that
and then they closed down because of COVID, which is
a blow in itself.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Yeah, and so one of the local adoption places that
we had reached out to, you know, they have you
put a book together and like tell about your story,
and so we did that and we were so excited.
And they give those books, you know, to the expectant
mothers and they get to pick, you know, who they
want their baby to be with. But also, there are
(24:25):
no guarantees in that process because you could get all
of the way through there, pay for their medical care
and all their costs and food and you know, lodging
and everything, and they could have their baby and say,
you know what, I you know, I appreciate the fact
that you want to go through this process, but I
would like to keep my baby and you don't get
any of those costs back.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
I was just going to ask you that question.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
Yes, it used to be that that was not the case,
but that also changed recently, which also made us decide
not to do that because you know, ultimately, we're putting
ourselves out there, not just our finances, but we're putting
our heart and you know, our hopes and prayers and
dreams into a situation. And you know it just we've
(25:10):
been let down a lot, and so it really it
changes your perspective on the resources that are available. And
so I did try to reach out to a local
group that meets, and they're fantastic, and they sent me
cards and things through throughout my process and through my retrievals.
And but almost all of them either have children or
(25:33):
have made it through that process, or you know, had
a child and lost them. And so oftentimes people don't
realize that when you lose an embryo, it's also a loss.
But a lot of people don't see it that way.
And so one of the times that I had gone
to their care group, you know, there were there were
(25:54):
moms that had to bring their kids. There were people
there who were pregnant or you know, people who or celebrating,
which is amazing and I'm so glad you know that
other people are able to get to that other side,
but people forget about those of us who have not
crossed that bridge. And so there are zero resources for
people like me who have not had a family or
(26:18):
you know, had a child and then maybe had some
complications later in life. And so it's something I'm currently
working on. I would like to put together a group
for people. I know I'm not the only person out
there that is experiencing this journey and just want other
people to know they're not alone.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
I was just gonna ask you, how do you want
that to change? But I think you just answered that question, yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Which you know. It's it's hard, right because you don't
know what to do, you know, And I don't want
to be in a situation where I've pushed somebody away
or you say or do the wrong thing. But I
just feel very strongly that I needed some certain support
during this journey that was not available, and I would
(27:05):
not wish this upon anybody. It is a very lonely, isolating,
depressing journey to go along, especially when you don't have
somebody else who has a similar journey to yours. And again, nothing,
you know, nothing makes me happier to see other people
get to that other side. But you know, once you've
(27:27):
crossed that bridge, you no longer understand what it is
that I'm going through. You may have had that journey
at one point in your life, but now that you've
crossed that bridge, you know, unfortunately we're different.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Yeah, I mean I can imagine, of course you're happy
for that, You're happy for their journey moving forward, but
that doesn't take away the fact that your heart's still
empty and you likely feel resentment. I think that's just
human nature. And so what would you like to be
able to offer women just like you.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
I don't know if it's a group of us, you know,
to be able to go and meet together, or I
used to do Bible study. I used to teach Bible
study at my church, and I thought about maybe getting
a group together. I mean, like I said, there's got
to be other people who are experiencing this and just
don't feel safe enough or have found somebody to talk to.
(28:22):
So one of the reasons that really made me want
to talk to you about this is because it's been
such a roller coaster of a journey for us, and
I want somebody else to have the support that I
didn't have in the resources, because this is just something
that really isn't talked about, and if it is, there's
(28:42):
just so many things that are unknown and with you know,
with anything, education is the key, and you know, the
more people realize what this journey is like, maybe other
people can come alongside those who know who are going
through that journey. I'm I'm still in the beginning stages
and trying to figure out what that looks like. But
(29:02):
I just know that there, even if there's one person
out there that gets something, you know, from what we've
talked about today, is enough for me. I don't want
anybody else to go through what we've been through.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
How long have you been on this journey, Brandy?
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Almost twenty years?
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Almost twenty years. It's a long time. How much longer
do you want to go on this journey?
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Obviously I would have liked to have, you know, made
it to the other side in December. But my husband
and I are you know, we love each other and
no matter what, I always have him, and so that
I'm very thankful for. We just hope someday, no matter
what that looks like, we'll have a family and be
(29:48):
able to give love to somebody you know that that
needs a family like ours. We have a support system
and you know, I know my husband is going to
be a very good father one and so we just
are looking forward to whatever that looks like.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
It makes me cry. You're gonna be a great mama
some day too.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
So I want to talk a little bit about like,
because it's expensive, the insurance side of things, because it
does vary from state to state. It does, yeah, And
has that been a help or a hinder?
Speaker 3 (30:27):
So Washington State is one of the better states when
it comes to infertility insurance. And this is the other
piece of my journey that has been very difficult and
I have not talked about publicly. So while I was
on city Council, I got a job back at Starbucks.
I worked there when I was eighteen and loved my job,
(30:50):
and you know, decided to go to college, and so
you know, back then they didn't have that opportunity. And
so secretly I had been working at Starbucks when I
was on city council because they offer infertility insurance, and
so on many occasions I would run into people in
the political circles and so obviously, you know, people had
(31:13):
questions and it was very difficult for me because A
I wasn't telling people about my journey and b people
are very judgmental because it's a minimum wage job and
you know, when you're doing city council and have a
full time job in a business, why are you at Starbucks?
And so I'm thankful for Starbucks and the journey that
(31:34):
they've been able to afford us, even though it hasn't
been successful, They've been amazing through the process. They have
lots of resources through Starbucks as you get through this process,
and it's amazing coverage. And there are lots of other
businesses that also can afford to give their employees infertility insurance,
(31:54):
but not every state is that fortunate.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Insurance is game changer and it you know, if it works,
you got to do it. If it works, you got
to do it. Or some people if they're hearing this
podcast learning about this for the first time, this journey
you've been on a lot, Yes, how do you feel
about that?
Speaker 3 (32:17):
It's a little nerve wracking. And I'm going to be honest,
that was the one thing I was really kind of
apprehensive about, just because I think people knowing me in
certain circles didn't know what I was going through and
maybe thought there was something, you know, that I might
have been going through and they were like, hmm, she's
(32:37):
you know, she seems to be going through something, But
I never reached out and told people. Only those who
are closest to us really knew, and some people didn't
even know until about two years into my journey. And
so you know, I wouldn't change the journey because you know,
it's ours, and obviously it's I'm going to use this
(33:00):
experience to try to help other people, and it's just
something that has been on part with my life. Is
you know, I want to give back and have other
people not go through some of the things that I have,
and just try to help educate and you know, come
alongside people. But I would venture to say that some
people will be probably shocked to hear some of the
(33:22):
things that we've gone through, because even those closest to
us don't even know about some of the things recently
that we've been through.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
So it's a.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Private thing, it is, It really is. It's a private journey.
There's a lot of questions I'm sure in your head,
your husband's head, just trying to maneuver through all of that, Yeah,
and then just question why.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
M It's it's always you know, like why me and
not them? Or you know, I constantly ask myself, you know,
like I did I do something wrong? You know, did
the medication that I take, you know, when I was younger,
did that have something to do with this? Or you know,
(34:04):
you just there's all these things that go through your
head and it's all the what ifs. But ultimately, you know,
we we have a handle on what we need to do,
and I just have to keep pushing forward. And I
think anybody else in my shoes at this point probably
would have given up by now. But I feel very
strongly that Chad and I would give such a loving,
(34:26):
amazing family, and I you know, I wouldn't have been
able to make it through this process without him and
my family and his family support, and so for that,
I'm incredibly thankful.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
There's a very lucky child out there. Mm hmm, yeah,
just waiting for you. We sure hope.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
So you talked a.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Little bit yesterday when we were on the phone about
just the process, a feeling and tell me if I'm
putting words in your mouth, like we could do a
better job in the process for couples going through this
within the medical field, just feeling like and I did,
(35:09):
and I won't mention any names, but I did read
a bunch of reviews and I was sad by them
because women feeling like they were just part of a
cattle call, or that they weren't important, or that they
felt like a number.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
And it does feel that way in certain situations, and
many of the people I've talked to who have gone
through this process feel the same. And it's different now
than it was twenty years from now because IVF was
not as known and so there weren't as many people
going through that process. But you know, with the national
(35:46):
attention that it got during this political cycle with IVF,
now a lot more people are familiar with it and
are asking questions. And you know, there were some Supreme
Court rulings that came down, you know, in Alabama in
regards to embryos and IVF, and so it's gotten a
little bit more attention the last year or two, and
(36:08):
so it's obviously a little more accessible now that laws
are changing as well, and so it's more prevalent. More
people are wanting to do it, and it's not just
for people who you know, need that extra help for
some time. You know, for some people it's because of age.
For some people it's they don't want to go through
that process of a natural birth. For some people it's
(36:30):
they want to have a surrogate whatever that looks like.
It's it's more of an option now than it was
for people before. It's not just for people like me.
It's very versatile. So naturally that means that the waiting
rooms and the waitless and the people that you are
sitting next to as you're you know, waiting to get
(36:51):
your labs and your ultrasound, it's it's it's a very
full waiting room and oftentimes you can feel as though
you are not going to be supported. And you know,
medical care in general is not what it used to be.
It's not personalized. It's not you know, you don't have
the same doctor that goes with you throughout your whole,
(37:12):
your whole journey. But we did experience that with the
first place that we went to, and you know, it
is unfortunate, but there are nurses and uh doctors depending
on where you go to that kind of take that
extra personal step. And you know, I'm really thankful for
that because, like I said, it's very lonely. And many
(37:36):
of my friends have actually been successful with my doctor,
and I you know, I'm so so so happy for them,
and but they too, have you know, had some of
the same experiences, even though they have now been able
to give birth and have have families. It's just for
(37:58):
some people, I feel like it's about the money rather
than the goal of you know, expanding people's families. And
I don't I don't know how to fix that, but
I would just say, do your research, read reviews, talk
to other people who have been to your doctor. You know.
(38:20):
Education is the key, and ultimately that's how we got
to the place where at now is talking to other
people who had been through that process and doing research
and looking at their success rates and things of that sort.
So really, I think education from the whole conversation around
IBF is the key.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
So you had the failed attempt in December, but you're
still trying. You're still trying to be matched with families. Yes,
so the journey continues, it does. What advice would you
give to other couples just like you that are going
through this and maybe it's been a long haul for
them as well, or maybe they're just starting out. And
twofold question, what if I would you give those of
(39:01):
us who want to support you.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
To give advice to anybody who may be in my shoes.
I would just say, advocate for yourself. Nobody can advocate
for you better than yourself. There are oftentimes where especially
in all medical care, not just with IVF. You know,
oftentimes you know your body well enough to know what's
going on, and so if you feel something, I would say,
(39:26):
advocate for yourself. And research. I mean, there's so much
information that's out there. There's the Internet, there's you know,
there's journals, there's all these different studies, and they're actually
finding out now which they didn't know until recently, that
a lot of the complications actually have more to do
(39:47):
with male factor than they do female factor. So when
we were going through our journey at the beginning, you know,
we were trying to ask, you know, what supplements should
he be taking, can he do a different diet, or
there are other things that you know that can happen,
and oftentimes we're told no, it you know, he doesn't
have to change anything. There's nothing wrong there. But it's both.
(40:08):
And the other thing I would say too, and this
is a huge piece, is that people don't support the
male in this scenario. Everyone thinks it's the female and
they're going through this too. They need support there's a
stigma out there, you know that men are supposed to
be you know, the strong ones and the caregivers and
(40:28):
everything like that. They're struggling too. So any support that
we can give, you know, the males in this scenario,
whether that be you know, support groups or you know,
if there's mental health counseling. I mean, if you have
to talk to somebody, there's nothing wrong with that. All
of us, you know, should be talking to somebody at
(40:51):
one point another, you know, in our lives. And so
I think people forget that just because they're not physically
going through the shots and the appointments and the you know,
the protocols that they're not suffering, but they are too.
They're watching their wife or significant other, you know, go
through this process and wondering why and all of the things.
(41:14):
And so I would just say find your support, advocate
for yourself, and do your research. When it comes to
people who want to come alongside people like us, be
very understanding, give grace. You know, when you're on hormones
and you're going through all of this process and you're
(41:36):
having to time things, you know, your social life is
non existent. You know, oftentimes you've got to you know,
leave somewhere to go at a certain time to take
a shot, or you know, you just don't feel up
to doing things that you normally would before, and so
you're just not yourself checking in and just maybe sending
(41:57):
a text message and saying hi, I'm thinking about you,
or hey, let's go do something fun, or you know,
giving them a hug, whatever that may be. It's the
small things that matter and really really just try to
include them. And so I would say more oftentimes than not,
(42:18):
people will avoid the situation or stop inviting you places
because they feel like it might hurt your feelings. But
for me personally, like obviously, baby showers are not going
to be somewhere I'm going to be for a while,
and I hope people, you know, can understand that and
appreciate that. You know, that's your special time and I
(42:40):
don't want to, you know, I don't want to be
upset or make you feel a certain way, and you
need to, you know, celebrate that and be happy in
your journey. But when it comes to birthdays for kids
or family get together some things, we stopped getting those
invites when we started telling people about our journey, because
(43:02):
you know, they thought maybe that might trigger us or
hurt our feelings. But you know, including people and making
them feel welcome and not a burden is something I
would say that most people probably don't recognize. We want
to be included.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
I was gonna say, let you make that decision, yeah,
but understand, be on the understanding side of whatever decision
that is that you made. Like you brought up baby
showers and that makes sense, and so being on the
understand standing side of that, but still offering that invitation.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's just the little things, you know.
I it's hard because there are people who reached out
to me during my journey, and it's hard, especially for
somebody like me that doesn't like to take help and
always wants to be strong. And you know, I've been
through so much in such a short period of time
in my life, and I've learned to get through things
(43:56):
and just internalize them and try not to you know, outwardly,
you know, push that onto other people. But oftentimes it's
the strong ones who need the most help. So if
you recognize that and you know that about the person
who may be going through this, be persistent and even
if you know you have to just show up one
day and say hey, I'm here, or you know, let's
(44:19):
go to lunch, or you know, if if in a
situation they're you know, in bed and you know, just depressed,
because that's another thing that you know a lot of
people don't talk about. Maybe go over and you know,
help them with housework or you know, take their dog
for a walk or you know, whatever that may be.
Whatever you feel called to do, anything is helpful. It's
(44:42):
just this is such a mental toll, not just physically
but mental, and so anything I think would be appreciated.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
You know, it really is the little things, the little things.
Is there anything else you want to add?
Speaker 3 (44:59):
I just thank you for having the courage to bring
me on and talk about this topic. And I, like
I said, I really couldn't imagine talking about this with
anybody else. You've you know, been such a light in
bringing you know, so many topics to people's attention, and
this is just something that we really need to talk
(45:19):
more about. And I really couldn't be any happier to
share this with you, and to anybody else who's watching,
I couldn't imagine doing this with anybody else.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
Just thank you, sweet girl, Thank you for trusting me
with this because it is a huge topic and it
affects so many people, and you know, we all just
want to feel like we're cared for and that we're heard,
and you're heard, and then you're going to help so
many people.
Speaker 3 (45:50):
I sure hope so. And I'm you know, I will
say too, I'm sorry. If you're going through this, I'm available.
If somebody wants to talk to me, I would be
more than happy to do that, and I can help
in any way that I can. And just know that
you're not alone.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
You know what, You've always been a bright light and
even though you're going through so much, your light's still
pretty darn bright.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Thank you for being here.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Thank thank you so much, and I wish you nothing
but the very best in this journey. Thank you, and
I'm here for you whatever you need. Okay, thank you
so much. Yeah, all right, all right, everybody, thank you
so much. And again, if you've got questions or comments,
or you have any topics that you want to hear about,
they're all open and we're open to talk about them,
(46:37):
and we're going to do it right here. So go
make the rest of your days the best of your days.
All right, welcome everybody to Leslie's Lowdown on life. I'm
really excited about this conversation and really excited to introduce
you to Brandy Pete's I've actually known Brandy.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
For well quite a while.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
We go back to when you were just a kid,
because you grew up with my daughter Melanie. Yes, but
you also might recognize Brandy's name because well, deputy mayor
of this Pokane Valley, six years on the city Council
for the Spokane Valley and you ran for the fourth district,
so you've been heavily rooted in this Spokane Valley for many, many,
(00:41):
many years. Yes, yeah, I'm making you sound old, but
you're just a kid. But we're here today. We're going
to talk about a really important conversation and Brandy and
I were just talking a second ago about how much
it's not talked about, and it's women's health, and in
particular today, infertility. And I'm going to give you a
couple of specifics here. One in six people, that equates
(01:02):
to sixteen point six of a people worldwide are infertile.
And the definition of being infertile, because I had to
look this up, is if you've not been able to
get pregnant after trying for a year or more, and
over the age of thirty five, it's six months or more.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
And then there's so much that goes along with that.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
So with that said, Brandy, thank you so much for
being here, being vulnerable, being willing to talk about this.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. I
couldn't imagine having this conversation with anybody else.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
No, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Well, this is something that a lot of people have
dealt with, and it's a daily struggle for many many women,
and it's it's incredibly difficult. And I think that because
it's not spoken about as often, people don't quite understand
what you go through. And I will say I did
(01:59):
kind of go on a deep dive last night because
you and I talked yesterday that there's really not many
services available. So tell me, you know what, take us
on your journey. How did this start? You've been in politics.
You actually decided to step away from politics, so tell
us about that.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Yeah, so this started very young for me. You know,
there were times where I would have to go home
from school because of some of the pain that I
would get. I would have to get on certain medications
in order to you know, like do day to day activities.
And you know, back then, you know, things weren't very
well researched, and so some of the things you know
(02:38):
that some of us or people like me have experienced,
you know, are coming into us in our adult life.
You know, some of the medications that I've had to take,
and so it's it's hard to say if you know,
some of those things that we did back then, are
you know, contributing to what's happening now, or if it's
genetic and things like that. There's still a lot of research.
(02:58):
But I've been dealing with this for quite some time.
And it wasn't until my husband and I have been
together since we were twenty and twenty one years old,
and so it wasn't until we had about twenty five
or we started talking about having a family and everyone
kept asking why don't you have kids, and you know,
all my friends, you know, by that time it had
kids and had families, and so it was really then
(03:20):
that we started really diving into why we hadn't had
a family yet.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Had you tried or had you just.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Not tried not to get pregnanty right, Yeah, no, we
weren't actively trying, but we weren't actively not trying to. So,
you know, that's always the first question that everybody asks
you when you meet someone. How many kids do you have?
You know, what's your family like? And you know, at
that point it wasn't you know, a trigger. But these days,
(03:51):
you know, when people ask that question, especially when you're
knee deep in an infertility journey, it can be it
can be hard to answer that question.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, really difficult, because you're right that it does seem
to be that first question to a married couple, Oh
do you have kids? Are you planning on having kids?
So at what point then did you decide? Because I
know that you were you were in the middle of
your career and you were very busy with that, and
again you and your husband have a lot also going
(04:19):
on in this Spokane valley with different businesses. So what
point did you take a look and go, oh, why
aren't we pregnant or should we talk about this?
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Yeah? And so it was about you know, mid twenties.
I was probably about like twenty six or twenty seven
when we went to a doctor here locally and got
checked out and was trying to figure out, you know,
if there was something wrong with either one of us,
you know what steps we could take. And you know,
I didn't have a good first impression with the first
(04:51):
doctor we had gone through, and so we kind of
just got a little disillusioned and kind of put it
on the back burnner. And then the opportunity to run
for politics came. And you know, when I do something,
I do it. You know, both feed in, you know,
all the way in. And so I wanted to be
the best council person I could be. I wanted to
do so much for the community, and I made that
(05:14):
my priority and I thought I had time, and as
I am finding out, I did not have time. And
I found that out about halfway through my career, and
so I really started to try to, you know, try
to change my priorities and put that first. But you know,
when you're working a full time job, you're doing city council,
and you know, we have a business and you know,
(05:37):
trying to have a social life and all these other,
you know, things pulling you in in several directions, it's
really hard. And so we put that on the back
burner and then we really in about twenty eighteen, twenty
nineteen went to a different doctor and found out what
was going on, and it was unexplained in fertility, which
(05:59):
you know, when you get all these tests and you
have all this technology, you think, you know they're just
going to tell you and you're going to overcome it,
and you know you have all these resources, but it's
there's just so much that's unknown. And then COVID happened.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
And then COVID happened, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
And that put a lot of things on the back
burner for us. We were actually through a child's hope
here and Spokane got through that whole process, and then
COVID happened. Vaccinations, all these different things were you know,
put into the mix of that, and then they ended
up closing down and so that was no longer an
option for us. And there really aren't a whole lot
(06:38):
of adoption resources here locally, very few. And also because
of the twenty twenty one Keeping Families Together Act, Washington
wants to reunify families rather than have them be adopted.
And so, you know a lot of people oftentimes will
say it's okay, you can still adopt. Well, it's complicated,
(07:00):
and we've been down that road and unfortunately it you know,
it's especially if you want a newborn, you have to
wait at least two years, and so it's there's a
lot of different things and complications that people don't realize.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
I know, actually, as you're sit you know, talking through this,
I'm a little bit overwhelmed because it is so much
to think about.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
So if I could walk it back just.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
A second, because you had mentioned that when you were younger,
you had some some issues, and I would imagine, like
with minstrel cycle, did you have endometriosis, because I know
that's a concern.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
I have endometriosis and I have PCOS, so it's a
hormonal imbalance, and then you have the cysts and the pain,
and you know, the chronic pain, and so you know,
it's it just becomes a part of you, and you're
always in pain. And because it's not something people can
see outwardly, you know, everyone thinks you're fine, and you know,
just take some tile and all, and you know, put
(07:54):
a heating pad on, you'll be fine. But it's it's excruciating,
and you know, it's a lot more common now than
it was back when I was in school, and you know,
there weren't resources back then neither.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
I think we've come a long way as far as
that goes, because women's health has been and I don't
want to say taboo, and maybe that's not the right word,
but that's the word that comes to my mind right up.
But it's not been one of those things that we've
freely talked about, and menstrual cycles and endometriosis insist and
the pain that goes along with it. You're so right,
they're not seen and so they're not spoken about, and
(08:30):
therefore we can't fix them or do anything to help.
It just felt like it got swept under the carpet,
and you probably felt that way.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
It's very isolating. Yeah, oftentimes you feel very lonely, even
if you're in a crowd full of people. And for me,
because of the career that I chose, I had to
keep a lot of this under wraps because you know,
I'm not a person that fears what other people think
of me. But also you know, you don't want to
let people into that part of your life. It's very
(08:59):
you know, can be emotional, and being in politics, you're
not supposed to be emotional, and oftentimes people would you know,
I'd be knee deep in hormones and you know, going
through a retrieval cycle, and people would tell me, oh, Brandy,
you know you're being a little too emotional about that,
and or you know, oh, maybe maybe you shouldn't have
done that, or you know, you should have done this instead,
(09:20):
and it's it's isolating because people don't understand what it
is that you're going through, and you're trying to put
on a brave face, and you know, you don't want
to talk about, you know, what you're going through because
some might see it as negative, or you know, they
don't know what to say to you. And so oftentimes
a lot of people will either ignore you all together
or they won't talk to you about it. And you know,
(09:43):
sometimes you just want somebody to say, you know what,
I'm I'm here for you, or even a hug, or
even I'll pray for you, or you know, I'm so
sorry you're going through that. It's just the smallest things
that people could do to help support people who are
going through this type of journey.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
And so often, and I think people try to find
that perfect thing to say to fix it or give
you some words of wisdom, and I think that goes
with somebody who's going through something like you are somebody
who's suffered a death or a loss, and really the
most important thing you can say is I'm here for
you if you need me, right, you know, I love you.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Yes well, and I think too. You know, it's hard
being on both sides of it, and I can see
from both perspectives. You know, it's it's tough, you know,
because you want you know, if you have kids, or
if you're pregnant, or you know, other things are going on.
You don't know how that other person feels. And I'm
speaking for myself. I'm always happy for those people who
(10:41):
are able to be successful in their journey. But at
the same time, you're mourning your journey, right. You don't
get to see them graduate, you don't get to see them,
you know, become parents, you don't. You know, you're mourning
all of the things that you don't get to have
but other people do. And then you you know, start
thinking about like why can't my body do the one
(11:01):
single thing that it was meant to do, And so
you you know, you're kind of in a in a
tug a war situation because you want to be happy
for everybody and you are, but at the same time,
then you're reminded of the things that you can't do.
And so and going back to the conversations, you know,
like I know, everybody has been very supportive, and you know,
(11:23):
some people do say things though that can really not
be great in somebody going through a journey like mine.
And so I just want to remind people that, you know,
telling people that they can you know, you can just
adopt or just relax, or you know, my sister in
law got pregnant and you know when she stopped trying,
or you know, I maybe you're not praying enough, or
(11:47):
maybe you know, all of those things. I I've heard
them more times than I can count, and you know,
and always coming from people who have good intentions, but
maybe saying something like you know what, I'm really sorry
you're going through that, or how can I help you?
How can I pray for you? Or you know that
must be very frustrating that you've gone through all of
(12:10):
those things. I'm so sorry can go a long way
with people. And I just want to encourage people to
reach out. If you know somebody going through it, they
may say that they're strong enough, they need help, they
need support, even if it's just a hey, I'm thinking
about you or you know, I care about you, and
(12:31):
it just it goes a long.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Way empathetic as opposed to being sympathetic.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Right, Yeah, I'm going to dive in.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
You mentioned going through some of the cycles, and if
there's anything you're not comfortable with answering, you just tell me,
because this is tough. But I want to ask some
of the hard questions because I know that there are
people just like you. They're sitting out here and they're wondering,
they're watching, maybe they feel alone. Maybe you have a
part of your tea that will help them. So you
(13:02):
tried it's IVF, correct, and that's expensive. It's like what
I saw was fifteen to twenty thousand dollars per cycle.
So you tried IVF.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Yes, So obviously we went down the adoption route and
so that was at the time a little bit cheaper.
Through that program that we had looked into. You know,
there were some resources that were available through churches, but
of course, as I said, they closed, and so a
lot of the places that are still around now are
(13:34):
and anywhere from thirty to fifty thousand dollars and so
that is off the table, and again because of the
you know, the laws that are in place in Washington,
it's not an option. So we did what was called
an IUI and that's where they take the sperm and
then they insert it into into U. And then we
did that, and those are typically anywhere from about fifteen
(13:57):
hundred to two thousand and so I did that uring
my political career, and of course I had too much
stress and so that did not take And so that
was the first and only procedure that I have had
as far as a transfer is concerned. I've done I
(14:17):
can't even count how many. It's somewhere between five and
eight cycles. And then I think I did five physical
retrievals of getting eggs. And so for anyone who doesn't
know how that works, you have to take a bunch
of shots. And because of my situation, I was taking
(14:37):
anywhere from five to eight shots a day, which can
be very painful. And obviously it's hormones, so you know,
it's very up and down. You have to do it
at a certain time and so your schedule, you know,
especially with city council, you know, it was very difficult
for me to have to keep that schedule, plus you're
(14:58):
having to do labs, and so I was at the
doctor's office every other day getting an ultrasound, getting blood
drawn three and four times a week, you know, and
you're taking those shots twice a day, so seven in
the morning and seven at night for several weeks at
a time. And so you know, keeping the schedule and
having to do all of the shots and all. You know,
(15:20):
that doesn't include any of the patches that you have
to wear, any of the extra supplements or pills or
anything that you have to take prior to that, and
so it's a lot. And so we did the retrievals, and.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
So that's when they go in. They take the eggs yes.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
And so then depending on whether you're doing a fresh
transfer or not, they will have your partner or whatever
sperm you're using come in and then they put them together.
And so they have to be a blasticist is what
it's called. And I believe it's five days that they
have to keep growing and if they stop growing at
that point there are no longer viable. Well, we did
(16:01):
that four or five times and they did not get
past the blastocyst stage. And also because of my age,
because I waited so long because I put my career first.
I didn't have very many follicles, and your follicles are
what carry your eggs, and as you age, you know,
you're shedding those eggs every time you have a cycle,
(16:23):
and so low ovarian reserve. I'm also fighting against as
well because of my age.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
So for reference, how old are you?
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Honestly, I'm trying to even think about this. I think
I'm thirty eight. I think somewhere.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Around in there, somewhere in there. Yeah, I get that.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah, which is interesting because I look at thirty eight,
it's still being so young. But you're right, every year,
you know, you lose those follicles as you shed through
a minstrel cycle, and I think the rest of us
take that for granted.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Yeah, So I I will say, you know, I it's
it's been a journey we have. We've done a lot
of retrievals. This last December, we were supposed to have
done our first transfer of IVF, which is when they
take you know, the sperm in the egg and it's
(17:19):
an embryo and then they implant it. Well, because of
our failed attempts to create an embryo, we had to
go through a third party and adopt embryos from someone else.
So that in itself has honestly been one of the
hardest I think.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Yeah, talk about that, I don't. Okay, So adopt embryos
from another.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Female and male and male? Okay.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Yeah, So it's either two random samples that have come
together to create embryo, or it's one person and then
they got a random sample, or it's couples who have
came together and had embryos.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
So what does that process look like? Then you say,
adopt an embryo? What does that look like?
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Yeah, so you go through a third party. Hours in particular,
we just submitted a profile and you know, had to
do a consultation. You have to decide whether or not
you want high or low to be able to talk
to the kids. So you know, if you want to
have a relationship with the parents, you can. If you
(18:24):
don't want to, you don't have to. But obviously, you know,
a lot of people who are donating embryos want to keep,
you know, that that relationship and want to know what's
going on with their embryos. And so based on what
criteria you give them, they match you with other couples
and so for us, we actually matched a couple. They
(18:45):
looked similar to Chad and I, and so we were
very excited, and you know, went through the process. You
have to get a lawyer, you have to do They
make you do counseling to see if you're fit enough
to go through this process, which is a whole nother
piece because you know, everybody else gets to have kids
and doesn't have to be evaluated for that, but we do.
(19:06):
And so once you get through that process and you
match with that family, depending on what kind of spectrum
they're on, whether it's high or low, you either meet
that family or you go to a lawyer and you
drop paperwork and then they transfer the eggs to your
clinic or the embryos to your clinic. So we matched
with them. We paid for them, which was a lot
(19:28):
of money. It was between fifteen and twenty thousand dollars,
and so those got transferred to our clinic and then
we were going to do a transfer and then I
had to go through the shots and process all over again.
But this is progesterone, so they were much more painful
and trigger shots and all of the rest, and so
(19:50):
I had done everything. Everything looked great, I did all
my labs and it was the morning of our procedure.
An hour before I got a phone call from my
nurse saying that none of those eggs were could be
used and we purchased seven.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
How did that happen?
Speaker 3 (20:06):
We don't know. We are still trying to figure that out.
We're still kind of reeling from that process. But essentially
they come on what they call a straw, and I
don't know if they got improper hand you know, improperly
handled from the clinic we got them from. But you know,
(20:28):
if if you there's different ways that embryos can come,
you know, on different mediums, and so we're still trying
to figure that out. But thankfully the third party that
we used with the embryo donations and our doctor and
the lawyers are all coming together and you know, hopefully
we'll get something figured out. So we're in the process
(20:49):
of matching with another family. But during that time, a
couple of weeks ago, actually we had matched with another
family and she had a thirty three embryos, I believe,
and she was giving them to six different families and
we matched. But this was a situation where I had
to meet her and she decided to pass. So, you know,
(21:15):
it's a lot of ups and downs, it's a rollercoaster,
and there's just a lot of things that people don't realize,
you know, what you go through in a process like this,
and you know, we're we're trying to stay positive, and
you know, we thankfully my family is amazing, Chad's family
has been amazing, and you know are my nurses and
(21:39):
everybody who's in that process is coming alongside of us,
and hopefully you will have a successful transfer someday.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
I mean I've learned so much from you already in
the short time that we've been talking. The embryo though,
the adopting the embryos, and then finding out the morning
of that.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
They're not viable.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
I mean, I can't even imagine your body's already gone
through all of these, like you said, ups and downs,
because you're you're doing the hormone injections and you're preparing
yourself and then and then that's just a mental blow.
So you've taken the physical blow and then you get
the mental blow to go along with that. And so
I think what keeps going through my head is, Okay,
(22:23):
what happened to them? And I mean, they're just no guarantee.
There's no guarantee.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
There's no guarantee. And that's something too I think that
people don't realize is yes, you pay all the money,
and yes we have all of this technology, and it's amazing,
you know, to be able to have these alternatives, but
nothing is guaranteed. Adoption, you know, is a little more guaranteed,
but with you know, the laws that are in place,
(22:51):
it makes it a little more complicated. But with IVF,
everything is still up to chance. There's no there's no
fail proof way to go about it, so you're still
taking that risk.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
I think you were talking about you know, I think
as little girls, most of us and not everybody kind
of dreams of growing up and being a mom and
doing this. Why do we play with dolls and do.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
All of that?
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Right?
Speaker 2 (23:17):
But the process that you're.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Explaining it just it's powerful. It's incredibly powerful what you
go through to get an end result that feels like
it just keeps getting pushed back. So you've done IVF.
You've talked about adoption, but we don't have resources, many resources,
(23:41):
and I don't even know what that looks like as
far as adoption goes.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Because you're open.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
It sounds like to everything, but you know, whatever is
meant to be, you're open to that. Talk about that
adoption process once again, because you were going through that
and then they closed down because of COVID, which is
a blow in itself.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Yeah, and so one of the local adoption places that
we had reached out to, you know, they have you
put a book together and like tell about your story,
and so we did that and we were so excited.
And they give those books, you know, to the expectant
mothers and they get to pick, you know, who they
want their baby to be with. But also, there are
(24:25):
no guarantees in that process because you could get all
of the way through there, pay for their medical care
and all their costs and food and you know, lodging
and everything, and they could have their baby and say,
you know what, I you know, I appreciate the fact
that you want to go through this process, but I
would like to keep my baby and you don't get
any of those costs back.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
I was just going to ask you that question.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
Yes, it used to be that that was not the case,
but that also changed recently, which also made us decide
not to do that because you know, ultimately, we're putting
ourselves out there, not just our finances, but we're putting
our heart and you know, our hopes and prayers and
dreams into a situation. And you know it just we've
(25:10):
been let down a lot, and so it really it
changes your perspective on the resources that are available. And
so I did try to reach out to a local
group that meets, and they're fantastic, and they sent me
cards and things through throughout my process and through my retrievals.
And but almost all of them either have children or
(25:33):
have made it through that process, or you know, had
a child and lost them. And so oftentimes people don't
realize that when you lose an embryo, it's also a loss.
But a lot of people don't see it that way.
And so one of the times that I had gone
to their care group, you know, there were there were
(25:54):
moms that had to bring their kids. There were people
there who were pregnant or you know, people who or celebrating,
which is amazing and I'm so glad you know that
other people are able to get to that other side,
but people forget about those of us who have not
crossed that bridge. And so there are zero resources for
people like me who have not had a family or
(26:18):
you know, had a child and then maybe had some
complications later in life. And so it's something I'm currently
working on. I would like to put together a group
for people. I know I'm not the only person out
there that is experiencing this journey and just want other
people to know they're not alone.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
I was just gonna ask you, how do you want
that to change? But I think you just answered that question, yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Which you know. It's it's hard, right because you don't
know what to do, you know, And I don't want
to be in a situation where I've pushed somebody away
or you say or do the wrong thing. But I
just feel very strongly that I needed some certain support
during this journey that was not available, and I would
(27:05):
not wish this upon anybody. It is a very lonely, isolating,
depressing journey to go along, especially when you don't have
somebody else who has a similar journey to yours. And again, nothing,
you know, nothing makes me happier to see other people
get to that other side. But you know, once you've
(27:27):
crossed that bridge, you no longer understand what it is
that I'm going through. You may have had that journey
at one point in your life, but now that you've
crossed that bridge, you know, unfortunately we're different.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Yeah, I mean I can imagine, of course you're happy
for that, You're happy for their journey moving forward, but
that doesn't take away the fact that your heart's still
empty and you likely feel resentment. I think that's just
human nature. And so what would you like to be
able to offer women just like you.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
I don't know if it's a group of us, you know,
to be able to go and meet together, or I
used to do Bible study. I used to teach Bible
study at my church, and I thought about maybe getting
a group together. I mean, like I said, there's got
to be other people who are experiencing this and just
don't feel safe enough or have found somebody to talk to.
(28:22):
So one of the reasons that really made me want
to talk to you about this is because it's been
such a roller coaster of a journey for us, and
I want somebody else to have the support that I
didn't have in the resources, because this is just something
that really isn't talked about, and if it is, there's
(28:42):
just so many things that are unknown and with you know,
with anything, education is the key, and you know, the
more people realize what this journey is like, maybe other
people can come alongside those who know who are going
through that journey. I'm I'm still in the beginning stages
and trying to figure out what that looks like. But
(29:02):
I just know that there, even if there's one person
out there that gets something, you know, from what we've
talked about today, is enough for me. I don't want
anybody else to go through what we've been through.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
How long have you been on this journey, Brandy?
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Almost twenty years?
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Almost twenty years. It's a long time. How much longer
do you want to go on this journey?
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Obviously I would have liked to have, you know, made
it to the other side in December. But my husband
and I are you know, we love each other and
no matter what, I always have him, and so that
I'm very thankful for. We just hope someday, no matter
what that looks like, we'll have a family and be
(29:48):
able to give love to somebody you know that that
needs a family like ours. We have a support system
and you know, I know my husband is going to
be a very good father one and so we just
are looking forward to whatever that looks like.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
It makes me cry. You're gonna be a great mama
some day too.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
So I want to talk a little bit about like,
because it's expensive, the insurance side of things, because it
does vary from state to state. It does, yeah, And
has that been a help or a hinder?
Speaker 3 (30:27):
So Washington State is one of the better states when
it comes to infertility insurance. And this is the other
piece of my journey that has been very difficult and
I have not talked about publicly. So while I was
on city Council, I got a job back at Starbucks.
I worked there when I was eighteen and loved my job,
(30:50):
and you know, decided to go to college, and so
you know, back then they didn't have that opportunity. And
so secretly I had been working at Starbucks when I
was on city council because they offer infertility insurance, and
so on many occasions I would run into people in
the political circles and so obviously, you know, people had
(31:13):
questions and it was very difficult for me because A
I wasn't telling people about my journey and b people
are very judgmental because it's a minimum wage job and
you know, when you're doing city council and have a
full time job in a business, why are you at Starbucks?
And so I'm thankful for Starbucks and the journey that
(31:34):
they've been able to afford us, even though it hasn't
been successful, They've been amazing through the process. They have
lots of resources through Starbucks as you get through this process,
and it's amazing coverage. And there are lots of other
businesses that also can afford to give their employees infertility insurance,
(31:54):
but not every state is that fortunate.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Insurance is game changer and it you know, if it works,
you got to do it. If it works, you got
to do it. Or some people if they're hearing this
podcast learning about this for the first time, this journey
you've been on a lot, Yes, how do you feel
about that?
Speaker 3 (32:17):
It's a little nerve wracking. And I'm going to be honest,
that was the one thing I was really kind of
apprehensive about, just because I think people knowing me in
certain circles didn't know what I was going through and
maybe thought there was something, you know, that I might
have been going through and they were like, hmm, she's
(32:37):
you know, she seems to be going through something, But
I never reached out and told people. Only those who
are closest to us really knew, and some people didn't
even know until about two years into my journey. And
so you know, I wouldn't change the journey because you know,
it's ours, and obviously it's I'm going to use this
(33:00):
experience to try to help other people, and it's just
something that has been on part with my life. Is
you know, I want to give back and have other
people not go through some of the things that I have,
and just try to help educate and you know, come
alongside people. But I would venture to say that some
people will be probably shocked to hear some of the
(33:22):
things that we've gone through, because even those closest to
us don't even know about some of the things recently
that we've been through.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
So it's a.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Private thing, it is, It really is. It's a private journey.
There's a lot of questions I'm sure in your head,
your husband's head, just trying to maneuver through all of that, Yeah,
and then just question why.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
M It's it's always you know, like why me and
not them? Or you know, I constantly ask myself, you know,
like I did I do something wrong? You know, did
the medication that I take, you know, when I was younger,
did that have something to do with this? Or you know,
(34:04):
you just there's all these things that go through your
head and it's all the what ifs. But ultimately, you know,
we we have a handle on what we need to do,
and I just have to keep pushing forward. And I
think anybody else in my shoes at this point probably
would have given up by now. But I feel very
strongly that Chad and I would give such a loving,
(34:26):
amazing family, and I you know, I wouldn't have been
able to make it through this process without him and
my family and his family support, and so for that,
I'm incredibly thankful.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
There's a very lucky child out there. Mm hmm, yeah,
just waiting for you. We sure hope.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
So you talked a.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Little bit yesterday when we were on the phone about
just the process, a feeling and tell me if I'm
putting words in your mouth, like we could do a
better job in the process for couples going through this
within the medical field, just feeling like and I did,
(35:09):
and I won't mention any names, but I did read
a bunch of reviews and I was sad by them
because women feeling like they were just part of a
cattle call, or that they weren't important, or that they
felt like a number.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
And it does feel that way in certain situations, and
many of the people I've talked to who have gone
through this process feel the same. And it's different now
than it was twenty years from now because IVF was
not as known and so there weren't as many people
going through that process. But you know, with the national
(35:46):
attention that it got during this political cycle with IVF,
now a lot more people are familiar with it and
are asking questions. And you know, there were some Supreme
Court rulings that came down, you know, in Alabama in
regards to embryos and IVF, and so it's gotten a
little bit more attention the last year or two, and
(36:08):
so it's obviously a little more accessible now that laws
are changing as well, and so it's more prevalent. More
people are wanting to do it, and it's not just
for people who you know, need that extra help for
some time. You know, for some people it's because of age.
For some people it's they don't want to go through
that process of a natural birth. For some people it's
(36:30):
they want to have a surrogate whatever that looks like.
It's it's more of an option now than it was
for people before. It's not just for people like me.
It's very versatile. So naturally that means that the waiting
rooms and the waitless and the people that you are
sitting next to as you're you know, waiting to get
(36:51):
your labs and your ultrasound, it's it's it's a very
full waiting room and oftentimes you can feel as though
you are not going to be supported. And you know,
medical care in general is not what it used to be.
It's not personalized. It's not you know, you don't have
the same doctor that goes with you throughout your whole,
(37:12):
your whole journey. But we did experience that with the
first place that we went to, and you know, it
is unfortunate, but there are nurses and uh doctors depending
on where you go to that kind of take that
extra personal step. And you know, I'm really thankful for
that because, like I said, it's very lonely. And many
(37:36):
of my friends have actually been successful with my doctor,
and I you know, I'm so so so happy for them,
and but they too, have you know, had some of
the same experiences, even though they have now been able
to give birth and have have families. It's just for
(37:58):
some people, I feel like it's about the money rather
than the goal of you know, expanding people's families. And
I don't I don't know how to fix that, but
I would just say, do your research, read reviews, talk
to other people who have been to your doctor. You know.
(38:20):
Education is the key, and ultimately that's how we got
to the place where at now is talking to other
people who had been through that process and doing research
and looking at their success rates and things of that sort.
So really, I think education from the whole conversation around
IBF is the key.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
So you had the failed attempt in December, but you're
still trying. You're still trying to be matched with families. Yes,
so the journey continues, it does. What advice would you
give to other couples just like you that are going
through this and maybe it's been a long haul for
them as well, or maybe they're just starting out. And
twofold question, what if I would you give those of
(39:01):
us who want to support you.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
To give advice to anybody who may be in my shoes.
I would just say, advocate for yourself. Nobody can advocate
for you better than yourself. There are oftentimes where especially
in all medical care, not just with IVF. You know,
oftentimes you know your body well enough to know what's
going on, and so if you feel something, I would say,
(39:26):
advocate for yourself. And research. I mean, there's so much
information that's out there. There's the Internet, there's you know,
there's journals, there's all these different studies, and they're actually
finding out now which they didn't know until recently, that
a lot of the complications actually have more to do
(39:47):
with male factor than they do female factor. So when
we were going through our journey at the beginning, you know,
we were trying to ask, you know, what supplements should
he be taking, can he do a different diet, or
there are other things that you know that can happen,
and oftentimes we're told no, it you know, he doesn't
have to change anything. There's nothing wrong there. But it's both.
(40:08):
And the other thing I would say too, and this
is a huge piece, is that people don't support the
male in this scenario. Everyone thinks it's the female and
they're going through this too. They need support there's a
stigma out there, you know that men are supposed to
be you know, the strong ones and the caregivers and
(40:28):
everything like that. They're struggling too. So any support that
we can give, you know, the males in this scenario,
whether that be you know, support groups or you know,
if there's mental health counseling. I mean, if you have
to talk to somebody, there's nothing wrong with that. All
of us, you know, should be talking to somebody at
(40:51):
one point another, you know, in our lives. And so
I think people forget that just because they're not physically
going through the shots and the appointments and the you know,
the protocols that they're not suffering, but they are too.
They're watching their wife or significant other, you know, go
through this process and wondering why and all of the things.
(41:14):
And so I would just say find your support, advocate
for yourself, and do your research. When it comes to
people who want to come alongside people like us, be
very understanding, give grace. You know, when you're on hormones
and you're going through all of this process and you're
(41:36):
having to time things, you know, your social life is
non existent. You know, oftentimes you've got to you know,
leave somewhere to go at a certain time to take
a shot, or you know, you just don't feel up
to doing things that you normally would before, and so
you're just not yourself checking in and just maybe sending
(41:57):
a text message and saying hi, I'm thinking about you,
or hey, let's go do something fun, or you know,
giving them a hug, whatever that may be. It's the
small things that matter and really really just try to
include them. And so I would say more oftentimes than not,
(42:18):
people will avoid the situation or stop inviting you places
because they feel like it might hurt your feelings. But
for me personally, like obviously, baby showers are not going
to be somewhere I'm going to be for a while,
and I hope people, you know, can understand that and
appreciate that. You know, that's your special time and I
(42:40):
don't want to, you know, I don't want to be
upset or make you feel a certain way, and you
need to, you know, celebrate that and be happy in
your journey. But when it comes to birthdays for kids
or family get together some things, we stopped getting those
invites when we started telling people about our journey, because
(43:02):
you know, they thought maybe that might trigger us or
hurt our feelings. But you know, including people and making
them feel welcome and not a burden is something I
would say that most people probably don't recognize. We want
to be included.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
I was gonna say, let you make that decision, yeah,
but understand, be on the understanding side of whatever decision
that is that you made. Like you brought up baby
showers and that makes sense, and so being on the
understand standing side of that, but still offering that invitation.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's just the little things, you know.
I it's hard because there are people who reached out
to me during my journey, and it's hard, especially for
somebody like me that doesn't like to take help and
always wants to be strong. And you know, I've been
through so much in such a short period of time
in my life, and I've learned to get through things
(43:56):
and just internalize them and try not to you know, outwardly,
you know, push that onto other people. But oftentimes it's
the strong ones who need the most help. So if
you recognize that and you know that about the person
who may be going through this, be persistent and even
if you know you have to just show up one
day and say hey, I'm here, or you know, let's
(44:19):
go to lunch, or you know, if if in a
situation they're you know, in bed and you know, just depressed,
because that's another thing that you know a lot of
people don't talk about. Maybe go over and you know,
help them with housework or you know, take their dog
for a walk or you know, whatever that may be.
Whatever you feel called to do, anything is helpful. It's
(44:42):
just this is such a mental toll, not just physically
but mental, and so anything I think would be appreciated.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
You know, it really is the little things, the little things.
Is there anything else you want to add?
Speaker 3 (44:59):
I just thank you for having the courage to bring
me on and talk about this topic. And I, like
I said, I really couldn't imagine talking about this with
anybody else. You've you know, been such a light in
bringing you know, so many topics to people's attention, and
this is just something that we really need to talk
(45:19):
more about. And I really couldn't be any happier to
share this with you, and to anybody else who's watching,
I couldn't imagine doing this with anybody else.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
Just thank you, sweet girl, Thank you for trusting me
with this because it is a huge topic and it
affects so many people, and you know, we all just
want to feel like we're cared for and that we're heard,
and you're heard, and then you're going to help so
many people.
Speaker 3 (45:50):
I sure hope so. And I'm you know, I will
say too, I'm sorry. If you're going through this, I'm available.
If somebody wants to talk to me, I would be
more than happy to do that, and I can help
in any way that I can. And just know that
you're not alone.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
You know what, You've always been a bright light and
even though you're going through so much, your light's still
pretty darn bright.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Thank you for being here.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Thank thank you so much, and I wish you nothing
but the very best in this journey. Thank you, and
I'm here for you whatever you need. Okay, thank you
so much. Yeah, all right, all right, everybody, thank you
so much. And again, if you've got questions or comments,
or you have any topics that you want to hear about,
they're all open and we're open to talk about them,
(46:37):
and we're going to do it right here. So go
make the rest of your days the best of your days.
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