Matt Claussen: Coaching Bodybuilders for Success

Episode Transcript
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(00:05):
We live during an extraordinary time forbuilding muscle. What started out over one
hundred years ago as a theatrical curiosityhas grown to become a sport and art
form that has millions of people pumpingiron all around the world. Let's Grow
Big Together, the podcast that startsoff wearing a hoodie then takes it off

(00:27):
to reveal the pump muscle hiding underneath. I'm Fausto Fernos, I'm Mark Fillion.
Today my coach, Matt clausan powerliftingand bodybuilding legend, joins us to
look back on winning the silver inClassic Physique Master Division at the NPC Mid
American Winter Classic, the contest thathad a jacked up Santa mascot warning us

(00:52):
winter is coming. Plus the EnhancedGames are Coming, an Olympic style competition
where performance enhancing drugs are not onlypermitted, but encouraged, the evolution of
bodybuilding categories, and controversy over thenew men's wellness winner Brazilian non binary bodybuilder
San Morier, and all your questionsthat will even make an abductor machine blush.

(01:17):
Let's Grow Big Together and all thefabulous podcasts made by Feasta Fund are
made possible because of legendary listeners justlike you. For an ad free experience,
acts as our folk catalog of overthree thousand shows on our website fistafun
dot com, slash bus or followus on Patreon at patreon dot com slash

(01:38):
Feasta fund. Need help with yourbodybuilding? Hire me to consult with you
to get to the next level.Message me Fausto Fernans directly on Instagram and
for ninety nine bucks. I'll talkto you one on one on the phone
and answer every question, every singlequestion your heart designs. Oh do yet

(02:00):
we won again? This is goodOhan, what is best in life?
Crush your enemies, see them drivenbefore you you had a lamentation of the
women. Our guest today is mycoach Matt Clawson, who trains here in

(02:23):
Chicago. As a powerlifter, MattClawson is highly regarded as a four time
national powerlifting champion and as a bodybuilder. Matt Clawson has won five major championships,
including in the two thousand and fiveNPC East Coast Classic, and guided
over seventy five clients to get stageready for their own contests. And now

(02:45):
add me to that pile of trophiesand medals. Together with my other coach,
my husband Mark Felion, we wonthe silver medal in Classic Physique Master's
Division at the NPC Mid American WinterClassic twenty twenty five. Three. That
for you, guys, that's abig word salad. That is the silver

(03:05):
for the silver daddies, a contestthat has a jacked up centa mascot warning
us wint is coming, and boydid it ever come. Welcome back to
Let's Grow Big Together, Matt Clawsan. Yeah, yeah, thank you guys.
I appreciate it. Good to beback once again. Good to have
you. Yeah, and happy birthday, thank you very much. Yes,

(03:29):
you're turning on now twenty one.Yeah, twenty one. Finally I can
drink. That was fun. Itwas interesting. For the first time,
I can vote. Yeah, youcan die for your country. Yeah.
Oh yeah great. Do you mindtelling how old is you are? Yeah?
Thirty eight? Oh wow, that'sa good age to be. Yeah,
thirty eight, so got lots ofgangs ahead of you. I feel
good. Yeah, I feel youknow, I feel healthy. So I

(03:51):
am healthy and thirty eight so thenew twenty eight. And I want to
thank you again for being my coachand getting me to that milestone for the
silver metal at the NPC should havebeen gold. Just getting it's not like
Trump. I was so close,you know, and everybody backstage was telling
me you will not get anything.You will you know, this is your

(04:11):
first time, right, Yeah,And that's that's common. You know,
for a show, you go out, you just you go up there and
it's just for the experience. Youdon't win any metal, and getting second
place is a huge accomplishment. Andwhy is it? Is it because you're
not good with your posing, oris it your muscle definition isn't what they
want to see? Or is thatcombination combination? I mean usually the first
show it's hard to get that muscledefinition and all the detail and striations out.

(04:35):
Sometimes that just comes with time andmuscle maturity and doing the whole process
a few times. Fuss has gotlike thirty some years on it. Yeah.
Yeah, so I've got that sinceI was in eighth grade in high
school. You know, it's beenmy lifelong ambition to get there. And
really it was with your coaching thatand Mark that got me to that place.

(04:58):
Like a culmination of of a alot of different things all coming together
at once. That's what a competition. Is it's cool because it's yeah,
it's just you on stage and yourposing. But what people don't see is
all the hard work that goes behindit and the people who are involved that
aren't on stage, the spouses andthe partners that have to be there for

(05:18):
the person. So you see oneperson on stage, but with every one
person or good competitor, there's awhole team of people behind them that are
helping them out. It takes avillage. It takes it, really does.
It takes a village, and it'sit is an individual sport, but
at the same time it's it's it'snot because it's going to take a coach,
coaches and friends and partners to makeit all happen. So when Caitlyn

(05:42):
Jenner says I did it all bymyself, she's lying, yeah, come
bine, she did that surgery yourself. Yeah, because and yeah, and
you know, when I was likegetting ready for this, and and I
felt like there were times where Iwas just like, you know, I'm
having like personal problems, I'm heavilymembers that are sick. I was doing
with cancer this past summer. Ihad another cancer scare during the thing,

(06:05):
and it was just like it was. It was just there were so many
obstacles on that road, and manytimes I was just like, you know,
maybe now's not the time to dothis. And Mark is the one
who said, you know, you'vereally wanted to do this and this is
the opportunity of lifetime to get there, and we did it. So I

(06:26):
did to do it while you're ina real lower fifties than an your later.
Yeah, yeah, that does geteasier. Right. So now the
question, and I didn't realize this, that the gold and the silver medal
people qualify for pro card. Yes, so you're yeah, a gold silver
first or second. You are thenqualified to go to a national level show,
which there's only a limited number ofthem every year throughout the country.

(06:49):
And then yet you could go thereand then you would compete for your pro
card and that would be the highestamateur bodybuilding show you could do before you
turn and professional. And what isit? What does the pro card get
you? Like a free scoop ofice cream? Yeah, so pad on
the back a nice card. Sothere's a nice plastic card that they send

(07:12):
you ten percent off at Avis carRentals. Yeah, and then obviously you
get the chance to compete professionally.So the shows you enter into are for
money. So there's prize money involved, and what's that like for the fifty
and older crowd. There's people upthere there are Yeah, yeah, you
got the Master's Olympia. You havesome bigger shows, you know. I

(07:32):
the prize money is not like itis for like the open guys or the
you know, the physique the openphysique guys, but the huge and freakys.
Yeah, but I mean there's stilla chance to make a little money,
but there's actual money, like likewhat's an example of a prize like
five dollars? I know, Iknow, you know, for like a
time, I'd have to look tosee what the masters like Olympia. Oh

(07:53):
yeah, they're definitely. I meanyou're an IFPB pro these shows are you
know, there's prize money involved yourprofessionals. So but like I was looking
like what someone like Chris Bums saidwins, Oh, I mean that's what
he gets paid for an appearance andthere's no contest. Yeah, I mean
the big shows I think they makeyou know what, four hundred thousand.
I think for the big big showsOlympia, it's got to be around that
for the Arnold as well. Butfor you know, the Silver Daddies,

(08:16):
it's it's going to be something inthe thousands. Yes, for like these
smaller shows. Yeah, yeah,you're not talking huge money, but it's
glory. It's glory, I meanyeah, just like it. People are
always asking like do I get paidfor this? And I'm like, you're
doing it for the glory glory,And this is the thing, like,
you know, what's the matter withkids today? I think we as a

(08:37):
society in the world has lost theappetite to do things for the capital g
glory. Yeah, they don't understandthat hobby just to have a hobby,
you know, well for the excitement, for the thrill of it, you
know, just for the thrill ofit. Diet coke. You know.
There were people I never understood wherethey would look at even what I was
doing bodybuilding, powerlifting, and thefirst question was oh, how much you

(08:58):
are getting pad to do it?And it was just like why would you?
I mean, I'm passionate about whatI'm doing. It's not about podcasting,
yeah, it's how much. Theyliterally say, how much money do
you make podcasts? Yes? Likewould you ask anybody else how much money
they make or is that the firstWell, I mean guess it's just your
mindset. But I think it's alsoa kind of in some ways, it's
a way they kind of delegitimize itin their mind right, just like,

(09:20):
well, if you're not getting paidfor it, where is the value,
because they don't understand life has valuebeyond money. Well, you know said,
every time you know, I haveyou're like someone says to you,
like you're so big, and it'slike, yeah, every time I have
sex with your mama, she getsme a burger. That's the old joke.

(09:41):
But you know, like people havea really hard time understanding that there
are other motivations other than just monetaryAnd part of that is coming because we
just live in a world where there'sso much inequality and the cost of living
keeps going up where I way juststay very stagnant, you know, And
so if people don't know how tohustle and or can't hustle and can't be

(10:03):
resourceful, it's it's really terrifying.Yeah, it's hard, but I think
everybody needs to have that outlet andthat hobby. You know, we're not
machines. We can't just you know, work work, work, the hills
and just sleep. So, yeah, you got to have that outlet.
You got to have something that's that'sfun to do and working out at least
it's one of those hobbies where itdoesn't necessarily cost a ton of money.
Yeah, competing you have some costs, but going to the gym and eating

(10:26):
healthy, it's you know, it'sa great hobby. And yeah, get
your gat outlet. Can I doon a weekend and still be a professional?
Bob? We'll see, like five, you know, five lines would
be absolute Max Mike work was hewas he doing like hard drugs when he

(10:46):
was competing against Arnold Swarzenegger and ChrisColumba and pumping on You know, I
don't know, but I mean Ithink the meth was later after, because
there was a lot of stories abouthim afterwards. Yeah, where he just
kind of like his slow downfall andthen the drugs and the van down by
the river. Yeah yeah, wellevan outside parked outside the Yeah. Yeah,

(11:09):
I think he never got over MikeMenzer. This is the losing to
Arnold. He lost thought he wasgoing to beat Arnold in the documentary Pumping
Iron. He thought the year thatArnold came back he prepared like six months
for it. This is Arnold didbecause he was done with bodybuilding at the
time, and Mike Mentzer thought hewas gonna win, and a lot of

(11:31):
people said, you know, heshould have won. He looked better than
Arnold did that year because Arnold justdidn't have the time to prepare like he
normally did. And after that itwas oncond one was the personality, Yeah,
the personality who he was. Hewas an up and coming star,
and yeah, that's how a lotof the competitors there felt about it at

(11:52):
the time that they were kind ofrolling out the red carpet for him.
You know, the show was justkind of handed to him, and Metzer
did not take it very well,you know. So do you think,
like the judges of anybody building contesttaken into consideration the personality, the social
media presence of the people that areon the stage. I think so,
And I don't think it's like gonnamake a difference from first to fifth place.

(12:16):
But if you're jockeying for a positionat a big show between third and
fourth, you know like that,Yeah, sometimes the guy who has the
sponsorships is more known. You mayget the nod over the guy who isn't
known, because you know, alot of people are saying like I'm not
even saying it's like, you know, they're out to get people or it's

(12:37):
a conspiracy. It's just when yousee someone's face and they're known, and
they're around and they're on advertisements,sometimes it's just it's just you're in you're
yes, you have this gut instinct. Well, okay, everyone likes him.
Maybe you know, we're going togive him the nod. Well,
it's not like they're going on thestage and measuring and doing like a scientific
formula. There's are reacting as judgesto what they see on the stage and

(13:01):
trying to be as neutral as possible. But there are human beings and they
are being influenced by the ecosystem that'saround there. Yeah. Yeah, but
I think if you look at alot of these big shows, I think
they're really are well run, andthe judging they get they get pretty good.
Pretty uch. Calves you say,calves don't really count, but in
some ways they really do. Theycould. Yeah they don't, but usually

(13:24):
they don't. Right, But ifyou got everyone, if everyone's equal,
then maybe they will get down tothe calves That's kind of what I feel
like I noticed with Spausto's competition,was like the difference between the person who
came in first the person that camein second. You know, their upper
bodies, they all look pretty goodto me, you know what I mean,
But you could really definitely see anotice between the legs at least,

(13:46):
you know, between the butt andthe quads and all those kinds of things.
The definition the stariatian stuff like that. It really felt like that,
and it inspired me to just reallyjust I'm like, I need to focus
on my legs more. Well.Part of it too, is like,
you know, I was thinking aboutSam, who who did really well.
He was I forgot sorry Sam.He was a younger guy who was taller,
and he was in the novice categoryB. And as of this recording,

(14:11):
I just realized I actually placed eighthin the open in the open bee
against Sam and all these elder youngguys, and I was just like,
I was so shocked when you wereup, Like, there are how many
people in thirty two? Yeah,you were eight out of thirty eight out
of thirty eight sixteen twenty three,So it's like, yeah, you're in
the first quarter of the no andthat the twenty five I demand to recount
against me. There's no way thatI was better than half of those people.

(14:33):
But you know, body building,so much of it is like your
structure, how you're put together,your limbs where they muscles insert and you
have good you have good structure,like you are you saying I have good
genetics? Now is what you're saying? Yeah, you do it, you're
good. I mean, you knowyou have. Everybody said I've always have
badges. I don't think you have. And now that I want something,
now that's genetics. I you knowI could lay Yeah, I think you

(14:56):
have, like you know, goodinsertions about pultricians, good body parts that
are showy and in the sense ofa body building show. Yeah, and
you have a small skettle, yeah, but you have a lot of muscle
on that skeleton. Yeah. Idon't know. It's like sometimes so much
of it, like you have asmall or you don't have a big waist,
where it's like if someone's got abig waist, what are you gonna
do? There's nothing you can reallydo. It's like you're not gonna get

(15:18):
that v as much. Yeah,you could try to get as big as
you can in the shoulders, butagain that's limited too, So it was
really refreshing to be judged by heterosexualpeople as opposed to get people. I
don't think there's a yeah, theremight be something the switch hitters in there.
Yeah. Well, I mean itis kind of interesting, like we're
all backstage and we kind of itwas an environment kind of like when you

(15:39):
go you've heard of like women goingto the bathroom at clubs and they're all
talking in there. They're so pretty. I love your hair, it's so
nice. Oh my god, Iwish I had hair. I wish I
had a nose like yours. Yourbreast is so beautiful, you know.
And I had about twenty allegedly heterosexualguys. You can put that on the
table that's going to fall over.I had twenty heterosexual guys talking about my

(16:03):
pecs my titties, right, andthey're all like, you got great pecs,
man, what do you do forthem? Like are you hitting on
me? And I was like,this is my number, this is my
hotel road you want to see themin the brang And I was like,
well, my sisters have nice brusstoo, so you know, it's it
is a little genetic, but it'salso I have a really good coach and
and you know, one thing thatI think helped me stand above the crowd,

(16:27):
I think is your emphasis on posing. And I always tell this to
everybody who's trying to be a bodybuilder, even if you're not doing a contest.
Learning the poses is fun, butit also gets your training to be
more impactful. So when you're doinga flies, you're sort of like in

(16:47):
between sets and you notice this behavior, and a lot of competitors, you
know, they are always flexing inbetween sets to sort of like keep that
mind muscle connection going. Yeah,it's it's so import and that mind muscle
connection like you're talking about, andwhen you can hone that in through your
posing and learning how the body movesand how to present it correctly, like

(17:10):
you're saying, it translates over intoyour training where now you're doing a curl,
you're doing a back exercise, alad pull down, you're doing a
chest press, and now you're feelingevery fiber work and you're feeling, you
know, all those muscles move theway they should, and like you're saying,
it goes back to the posing,just another level of that mind muscle
connection. And you see people whenthey get on stage and it's not there's

(17:33):
good posers, there's good presenters,and then there's just people who just look
awkward and uncomfortable. And that's abig thing. I know for you,
you were great at I'm sure Iwas so happy to be well, you
have a presentation on stage. Itseems like I mean, I'm sure you've
been on I know you've been onstage as before, so it's like you're
comfortable. Not the first time Ibeen naked. Well, you're you know,

(17:55):
you have that, you have thatcomfortableness on stage where some people they're
like they don't want to be beinga stage in front of them. Yeah,
even if you're not speaking, itcan be terrified, to be terrifying,
it's a huge uh yeah. Everyone, like a lot of people are
scared of it. And then youcan just see that deer in the headlights.
Look what they have, and it'slike, oh, it's just so.
And Foster had that determined kind ofthing. Yeah, and he was

(18:15):
smart too. He's like he showedme a picture. He's like, you
see this photo. I held thispose. I only had a minute out
there, but I held this posefor ten seconds because I wanted to make
sure that photographer got this picture,you know, because otherwise, if I
didn't hold it, I might havemissed it. Oh that's a tip for
people who are doing their first contest. If you're doing a posing routine and
you paid a photographer to take picturesof you, your first two seconds or

(18:38):
basically your first two poses is goingto be what's going to be photographed.
So if you know you look greatin a double biceps or Arnold pose or
whatever it is, you know,do those poses first because those will be
the photos you have. Oh,because they stopped taking photos after a while,
look about down as camera after threeseconds and I was like, man,

(19:00):
I paid one hundred and fifty bucksfor these photos and all I got
is two seconds of it. Iwas like, you could just run the
role. You know, it's digital, Like come on, yeah, you
know. I was like, butI was really happy with the photos that
I did get out of it,you know, and it's and to me,
it was just like it's it's youknow, you can debate about your

(19:22):
body. And I think part ofus and I want to get into this
in a minute with you is like, you know, Chris Bumstead was posting
this a while back, and hesays that the reason a lot of bodybuilders
wear hoodies while they're training and upto the mint of the contest because they're
trying to talk themselves out of howgood they look, and they almost internalize
this like negativity to put gas onthe pedal. And I don't know if

(19:48):
like that's a healthy or an effectivetraining techniqueuse thinking you look like shit.
Yeah, I think everyone's different.I think everyone's motivation comes from a different
point. You know. Some peoplecan do that, you know, kind
of like emotional alchemy, where it'slike they take that a negative emotion and
then can turn it into like thatpositive fuel, where other people they I

(20:08):
don't just don't think they have thatkind of like mindset where it's like they
just want to be positive and I'llbe positive, you know. And that's
what I like. I used tothink about this differently, but I watched
this Instagram video from this girl,and you know, you see these guys
they wear the pump cover at thegym d they're wearing it, and I
always assume you're wearing it because youwant to get warmed up, you want
to get those muscles, relax,that kind of thing before you take it

(20:30):
off. And She's just like,no, they wear this because their muscles
are deflated and they don't want totake it off until they look big and
pumped. And I was just like, oh, that's why it's such a
great reveal when they do that.That's why I always did it. Yeah.
I was like, I could feelthe pump come out. I'm like,
all right, no, right now, it's time exactly. Well,

(20:52):
you do that when we train together. Sometimes you're wearing a hoodie. Yeah.
Usually I usually start with the hoodieand then and then I'll take it
off. Yeah. Once I feellike and do you feel like people look
at you and go, poor Matt. He was so big once, I'm
so big. Now what happened?I don't know. I don't know.
I alds see myself and I'm justlike, yeah, you know, I

(21:17):
think I look at myself realistically,you know what I mean. So I
guess I just got to take everyoneelse's word for it. They say I'm
still big. So Shaman chat onthe podcast, she said this it was
such an important thing. Bodybuilding isthe support and the art of illusion like
magic in a sense of making yourselflook better than you actually do. And

(21:37):
it's like, you know, eventhe distance that you when you're posing,
the distance where your body is fromthe viewer can make the make it look
bigger and smaller. And to me, I'm just like, I'm like,
I love that idea because it's it'slike, well, then if you feel
bad about your body, you stillhave a good body, you know,
if you you don't have to feelgood about your body to be good at

(22:00):
this. Yeah, And I reallylove that because some you know, as
Americans, we just have those internalized, complicated negative feelings and let's be frank,
folks, abs are overrated. Wehave we have unrealistic body you know,
body issues. It's just not it'sgreat. I mean, I've worked

(22:22):
my whole life to get to getto here, to be able to you
know, I have a six packmost of the year and it's not an
issue, but it's not easy,you know. So how do you contain
a six pack most of the year? You know, through year, I
think just building, I mean onewas building all the muscles. It just
takes on anything fatty. Yeah,it would definitely. Throughout my twenties,
I was not a guy who couldwho would walk around lean. I looked

(22:44):
puffy and big, and but Ibuilt all that muscle up and now it's
I can maintain it and keep mycalories pretty low. Basically, So you
don't like see a girl scout cookietable and you're like, I'll take five
boxes. I mean, if Ihave something, I'll have it. But
I'm pretty I'm pretty good about Okay. If I have something crappy or I
take a day off and I eatwhat I want, I'm like, that's

(23:07):
it. You know, I'm goodfor the rest of the week where I
can be pretty you know, I'mpretty strict then after that. So what's
the difference between People ask me thisall the time. What's the difference between
a trainer and a coach? Youknow, I mean a personal trainer,
I think you know, it's somebodywho, yeah, they train you and
they have information that they can giveyou. A coach is someone who's able

(23:30):
to communicate that information and then pullwhat they need out of you, you
know, get the most out ofthe person that they're training. So and
that's different words to describe the samething, and it's just the mindset that's
different. Yeah, I think Ithink a coach is someone, you know.
And when I think of coaching,I think of it as it's a
personal relationship between two people. Andfrom that we're, you know, we're

(23:55):
trying to get our best results andget the most. As a coach,
I'm trying to get the most outof my client, you know. And
a trainer, yeah, I meanmaybe a trainer's trying to do the same
thing. But when I think ofa trainer, I just think of someone
who is just you know, hey, do this and do that. So,
like, here's the information, here'shere's the workout, let's follow the
workout, here's the reps. Dothe reps. I saw this on the

(24:17):
internets as a personal trainers a trainerlights of fire underneath you, and a
coach lights of fire inside. Thereyou go. That's kind of what I'm
trying to say in a much youknow, that's a much easier, a
quicker way to say it, right, you know. With And I think
that's what's so exciting about working withyou or and and why I always do
this podcast and I and I loveworking with other people too, is that

(24:40):
like together we can overcome anything,we can make those dreams come true.
And you know, and we don't. We're so again, it's like this
idea that we're so individualistic. Youknow, I did it all by myself.
I don't need anybody help, youknow. And I'm like the road
that you're driving to the gym,the grocery store, the gym itself.
You know, Brian in America's gym, shout out to you, the best

(25:00):
gym owner of the world. Ithink, seriously, it's the best,
the best gym. I mean,I've been We've all been training for a
long time. And what he's puttogether as far as a gym equipment and
the atmosphere and just the gym ingeneral is we're so lucky to have that
in the Chicago Land area. That'swhat I feel. Yeah, this is
a I know he's a working firefire Yeah, so he's he's he's at

(25:23):
the firehouse twenty four hours and thenit's forty eight hours off he's running the
gym and the guy's like jacked inbig. Yeah. I don't know how
he's doing it, but I guesshe's lifting weights while he's supposed to be
putting. I guess. So probablyhave a gym in the firehouse. Yeah,
I'm sure they have a gym inthe firehouse. Yeah, usually do
and uh and sliding down that poleprobably some you know. And I've known

(25:44):
him for years. Everyone's giggling athome and he was always this is the
owner of America's gym in Chicago orin Wheeling, Illinois. And I've known
him for years, and he wouldalways say, I've got all this gym
equipment in storage, thousands of thousandsof pieces. I'm just like, what
is this guy talking about. He'sgot a gym, it's all in storage.
And for sure he's like we youknow, we left the gym one

(26:06):
day and we were walking outside andhe was pulling stuff out of the trunk
and it was just like his eyeswere like he was just he loved this
piece of equipment. And Faust wasjust like, what is it. He's
just like, I can't tell you. I'm just like, what do you
mean you can't tell us. He'sjust like, I'm not telling anybody about
it until it's ready or something likethat. So I follow him on Facebook,

(26:26):
so I was trying to see whichmachine. I think I may have
identified the machine, but I meanit was sand blasted and repainted and reconditioned
and stuff like that. But evenat that gym, there's that whole the
back area that's just filled with oldequipment that he's just he's ready to do
something with it. And maybe he'sgonna open another gym. I don't know.
Yeah, I think he wants toexpand over there. But he'll go
out. He was like a fewweeks ago, eight hour drive out to

(26:49):
Ohio to go pick up some pieceof equipment that he wanted. You know
that it was like one of one, you know, you can't find these
anymore, and to bring it backto the gym. So just like stuff
like that. Who else you know, what's the craziest piece of equipment there
that he has that you use thatyou're just like this thing. You don't
see it anywhere else, but Ilove it. Oh, I don't know.
I was going to say, Idon't know if anything that I've never
seen. There's there's a company calledPanada which they make a few different leg

(27:15):
press machines, a shoulder press machine, a back machine. He's got a
few of them there that you don'tsee at a lot of gyms. And
the nice thing with that is youcan't really adjust these things. You can
really adjust these things to set upperfectly for any type of body type,
because I mean there were some machineswhere it's just like you have to like
literally like climb up almost like aladder jack into them. Like last glass

(27:37):
that's like looks like it's on asecond story building. Yeah, Like,
Yeah, there's this leg press.If you were to like fall off,
you'd like break your leg or yourneck or something. You're like ten feet
up. And there's another one thatlooks I swear to got there there.
It looks like a Sadam masochistic SaintAndrew's Cross, but it's for training your
biceps. Yeah, it's the eyIt's called the Iron Yeah, the Iron
Cross, the Iron Cross. AndI was like, what the the hell

(28:00):
is this? Brian? Yeah,I mean Brian Kurban, you know,
shout out to you. He's justhe's somebody who really loves bodybuilding, and
it's an environment that's very inclusive andviting for all kinds of people. And
I gotta tell you, you know, some of those physiques are easy on
the eyes. And it's a greatplace to train if you're ever in Chicago.

(28:21):
So there you go, your freeplug. Brian, Yeah, right,
it is good. Yeah, whoare your like a favorite bodybuilders,
Like when you're scrolling on social mediaor watching television and that person's on or
and you're like, I got tostop and watch, you know, like
Ronnie Coleman, no matter where heis, what he's doing, you got
to watch what he's doing more thansome of the older school guys. You

(28:44):
know, Dorian Yates was like myidol growing up, just the hardcore,
no nonsense guy J Cutler. Ialways like j Color for his business sense.
He was always really smart, goodwith money, and I like also
just the way he handled his business. If you see him now, he's
very professional. He talks to everybodywhen he's at the shows, and uh,

(29:08):
you know he's done with his career. But he's healthy, he's not
beat up. So yeah, Imean those are like Dorian Yates, J
culor, those are like guys formerbodybuilders, They're just they've just exhausted themselves.
So yeah, yeah, I meanI think some of them have health
issues, you know, from fromstuff. And then I mean look at

(29:29):
Ronnie Coleman. I mean yeah,I mean he's well, he was famous.
His doctor fantasy told him not tolift, and he went to the
gym like the next day or somethinglike that. And surgery, He's had
like so many spinal surgeries. Hewas told not to lift. He went
back to the gym, he poppedthe rods in his back leg pressing after
the surgery, and so I mean, yeah, I think some of it
was self induced. You know,it definitely didn't help him out. But

(29:52):
yeah, that obsession, that mindsetthat I think are there's something beautiful and
and and and people who don't understandthat I can't relate to it, think
of it as a sickness. Youknow. I think people who bash Ronnie
just don't get it, like tome, like, yeah, his body's
beat up, but he's got thatlike pride and that honor inside of him,
that or that hat that he canhang on the you know, on

(30:17):
the on the hook at the endof the day saying I did something that
nobody else did and it was aworking comp It was a working cop when
he did it. So, Imean, how many people can say they're
the best in the world. Andhe goes anywhere in fitness and people will
roll out the red carpet for him. And you know, you hear people
always like, you know, frustratedor angry at the cops and the violence,
and they're like, I hate cops. All cops are bad and stuff.
And I'm like, you know whoreally hates cops other cops, because

(30:41):
you talk to anybody who's a policeofficer, they're like, they're like,
this job is killing me, youknow, and I'm just like, we'll
get out of it. And someof some of them, thankfully, they're
able to escape that, you know, situation. But a lot of people
who are in that position, they'rejuggling to make ends meet. And so
you know, Ronnie Coleman or somebody, uh, what's thet say, the

(31:03):
greape fruit guy, but Ky Green, Ky Green, Sorry, Kai,
But you know, like, theseare people who came from very humble origins
and they managed to become some ofthe world's greatest athletes despite all these obstacles
stacked against them. And I thinkthat's such an important thing that we can
learn, is how to overcome obstaclesthat we face. I think some of

(31:25):
your biggest obstacles. I mean,you look at people with great success,
and most of them have extreme obstaclesand things that they had to get over,
in hurdles that they had to jumpto get to where they were,
but it is kind of a collaborativeart because it's like if I'm I do
better when I'm around you or Mark. You know, it's like I when

(31:45):
I'm lifting on my own, it'slike I'm like, you know, getting
distracted. And it's like, youknow, you're on your phone. Look
at people looking at photos of Frenchbodybuilder Geoffrey Vasso. You know, how
does somebody look like that? Ido not know genetics, miracle of God?
How does someone become Dorian Yates?How does someone become you know,
Ronnie Coleman. It's like, Imean, we can you know, we

(32:07):
can say genetics and that sort ofputs it on and you know, throws
away that ambition. But there isa recipe, there is a pathway,
there is a journey that bodybuilders take. Yeah, yeah, I think it's
Yeah. I don't think anyone's predestined. I don't think someone's born and like,
oh this is the next king,let's Kingham, you know, let's

(32:28):
crown them. Uh. But yeah, these it's all little small decisions over
years and years and years of perfectinga craft and trying to master it.
And when you lay that groundwork downand then you couple that with genetics and
the correct coaching and supplementation, youget the ability to be a mister Olympia.

(32:52):
Well, genetics is also got tothrow lucky, yeah, and genetics
and you gotta throw a luck inthere too. I mean you got to
get lucky. You got to havethe right I mean Ronnie Coleman, yeah,
had great genetics to you, MissOlympia, but he also had to
have a metroflex gym in his backyard. He also had to have all those
guys and all you could eat thefet and black eyed peas, and he
had to have the guy, theguy who owned Metrofix, Brian, to

(33:15):
take him under his wing and trainthem and teach him everything. So there
probably was ten Ronnie Colemans throughout thecountry, but you know, he was
the one in the right circumstance whohad the work ethic and did everything right.
Shane is asking on Instagram. HisInstagram handles poly Pocket King. All
right, he's not that short,but anyways, how short is he?

(33:37):
I think it's like five foot sixor something. You know, he's training
for his first competition in San Francisco. He says part of the challenge in
being a bodybuilder in San Francisco,there's like it's really expensive to live there.
So, you know, bodybuilding isthat this money making, lucrative opportunity,
and so a lot of trainers thathave to be doing and remote because
like at the gym, there's justnot a lot of people that can afford

(34:00):
to live there. And he said, as asking wants to know from you,
what's something amateur bodybuilders over obsess onor focus on, and what are
some things we should focus on instead. Yeah, it's a really good question.
I think training as far as likegetting too detail oriented as far as

(34:20):
you're training, you know what Imean, getting too down, Oh I
need to do a certain exercise andmake sure I squeeze my tricep and get
the perfect range of motion. Ithink training needs to be you know,
intense, it needs to be hard, and you need to train smart.
But I think there is sometimes anover emphasis. I'm just training in general,

(34:45):
you know, because I think there'sa lot of different ways to do
it to get to the end resultor to put a ton of muscle on.
Do you think that Mike Metzer wasright that people just waste too much
time in the gym? Yeah?Yeah, I think they do. Yeah,
I mean, I don't think Mikemets Are was one hundred percent correct,
But we have like so many guysout there telling you, Okay,

(35:05):
you need to do hit. Noyou need to do fifty sets. No
you need to use a full rangeof motion. No you need to do
half reps. So it's just like, how about we just get into the
gym train all your body parts,work your weak body parts more. And
yeah, Mike Metzer that you're talkingabout that guy doing what is the two

(35:27):
second pull up? He's like,I had this guy and I just do
one rep, but it would fortwo seconds and it changed everything. Yeah,
we're getting to you know, Isee some you know, guys on
extra on Instagram just trying to getsuper cute with movements, like trying to
get something super isolated, hit somethingat a really a certain angle. I

(35:49):
think that stuff, Yeah, can'tit be beneficial, But it's not going
to be the meat and potatoes ofwhat's going to build muscle build muscle.
It is going to be full rangeof motion, the basic movements and sticking
to it. I think a lotof people just don't take advantage of Mike
Metzer's original ideas. Just like sloweccentrics. Sure, eccentric is with the
direction of gravity. Yeah, andso like a lot of people just kind

(36:13):
of they're they're moving back and forth, and it's like, if you can
just put a little bit of slownessin the direction of gravity, your muscle,
the tissues in your muscles are benefitingfrom that. Yeah, I mean
it's the eccentric part, and there'sthe obviously concentric moving the weight up and
eccentric going down. It's both arepart of hypertrivy, part of breaking down

(36:37):
muscle. So yeah, it shouldbe focusing on both of them. Something
you should focus more on would justbe if you're getting ready for your first
show, is the diet, yourdiet, your nutrition, That's something you
should be to the tea about andnot messing messing around with, because that
is really what's going to make orbreak most people when they get on stages,

(36:58):
they're conditioning, making sure their dietson point. And there you say,
diet, are you more about likegetting diets for that mass a you're
talking about like just to be likeno fat. Yeah, yeah, I
mean both. I mean off season, I think you get you have a
lot more leeway to kind of enjoyyourself and you don't have to be super
strict. But yeah, getting downto you know, that's within eight weeks

(37:19):
of a competition. You know,you want to be as exact as you
can with everything. You know,calories, so like what percentage body fat
are you? Like right now?He was always very cagy with me.
He wasn't very fourth fourth well becausethat part of it as an estimate,
and another those body weight, Wellyou stood on a scale that messages your
body. Well, sometimes I weara sock, so it doesn't. Well

(37:43):
when you took the bare feet,but you were saying that, like I
got down to what like was myleanest, you were saying like it was
like ten percent or yeah, butyou probably get ten ten percent, ten
percent. I mean when you getabs, your abs are in and coming
in, and that's like ten percent. So I was like that. You
know, when we started peeling offall the all the fat, it was
like, you know, it waslike mowing a lawn. Yeah right,

(38:06):
and you're like, oh, lookat this pebble. You know, it's
like you can start seeing your physiqueand anatomy. And I'm just like I
am my parents child, you know, I saw so much of my parents'
body in my body by getting thatlean. Yeah, and I would wish
that for everybody, so like discovera different part of yourself by just once
in your life, just you know, do whatever it takes to get that

(38:27):
lean momentarily. Get that back tothat question too, just why diet so
important? Just because you want tomake sure you're getting in enough protein just
to maintain the muscle you have andkeep and preserve it as you're getting into
the last few weeks, because yourcalories are going to be low and you
just want to get the most outof everything, right, you just don't
want to be wasting any food.You want to just make sure every calorie

(38:49):
counts in the training. I don'twant to like downplay training, but you
know, just make sure you're tryingto hold you know, your weights as
far as your numbers and your repsbecause at that point you've already built it.
Yeah, it's not built it,it's there. If you're if you're
a month from a show, you'rein a calorie death is it you're not
building any more muscle, you know, Just it's it's not about muscle building,
it's about preserving holding on to whatyou do with the sadness of losing

(39:13):
that muscle mass. You know,you know, yeah, you know what
you tell I mean, it's justit's it's temporary and you're not really losing
muscle. You're just as you getsmaller. Think of it as you're losing
body fat and you're losing some ofthe fullness. A lot of it is
just you're losing the fullness that's inthe muscle from the off season or when
you're usc and it's still there.It's still there. It's just yeah,

(39:35):
if you were to go and havea bunch of carbs for three days straight,
you'd you'd fill back out. Soit's all still there. It's just
flat. And I always tell peopleflat is the road to getting shredded.
So being flat is okay. Likepeople, I'm flat, I don't get
a pump. That's okay. Thatmeans your glycogen levels are low and your
muscles, which now means your body'sgonna start burning fat instead of burning off
this glycogen. So it's a goodit's okay. Well, and you know

(40:00):
part of it that was having thatburger and fries on the night before the
contest was like this that to mewas almost as much of a reward as
anything else. And people are like, boy, you are of a dysfunctional
relationship with food Foulstone, and I'mlike no, because part of it is
like there's this ambition to getting readyfor that show, and that becomes a

(40:23):
great fuel for all the all theactions you have to take and without that
show, Like if you tell somebodyit's like, well, I want to
get looking like a bodybuilder for acruise, it's not going to be the
same thing because there is this likeundercurrent of competitiveness that ironically brings out a
lot of cooperation with your family andyour friends and your community and yourself.

(40:46):
Most important, You're not as comfortableas straying from the plan when you know
you're gonna have to step on thatstage. And so when you have that,
you know sort of damicle is hangingover your head. It's it's a
it's a great experience to have becauseyou're more likely to follow through with,
you know, with what your coachis asking, Yeah, you get you.

(41:07):
You know you're going to be onstage, you know these judges are
going to be looking at you.And then you have a couple that with
a coach who's got your back too, and you just start to become very
motivated, and you just become youfeel like you're just the point of confidence
where you just feel unstoppable. Andthat's really what you should feel like going
into a show, when you havethe right pieces of the puzzle and the

(41:29):
right people in your corner, youshould just feel like, you know,
I'm just going to dominate. Well, I'm a middle child, and to
me, it was like it wasabout making my coach, my husband,
my mom, and my friends happyas much as like my happiness was tied
to their happiness, you know,and so for me it was like a
really empowering thing. Also a thingto do is like to try to do

(41:49):
something that was for me and meexclusively, you know. And you know
that's not mince words. It's like, you know, backstage, someone was
asking all the competitors like, areyou guys naw are you guys natural?
And it was like the end ofa Scooby Doo episode, Like forty people
just started laughing hysterically, but atleast they were laughing and I'll being like,
no, we don't do that.You know, when you're over the

(42:13):
age of fifty, you know,having this kind of physique is tied to
performance enhancing drugs, and you knowso much in fact that I think the
culture and the mindset of performance enhancingdrugs is changing. Just the way that
we're becoming more Americans accept marijuana.They don't think of it as this dangerous
thing that it used to have thatwas being used to put hippies and people

(42:36):
of color in prison. And nowadaysI think a lot of young people are
trying to be very comfortable and talkingabout their use of performance enhancing drugs so
much that there is now an alternativeto the Olympics called the Enhanced Games,
and there's a lot of money beingpoured into this, and basically it's not

(42:58):
it's basically the Olympics, but withoutwith Instead of allowing people to use performance
enhancing drugs, they're encouraged to doso or not allowed you normally, like
not allowed in the Olympics. There, yeah, and this is going to
be no hold bars, basically theEnhanced Olympics. What's up swimming? Right,

(43:20):
Well, they interviewed one guy who'sa swimmer, right, James Magnuson,
and he's just like, I'm readyto do it, you know.
He looks bigger from his Olympic games, you know. So it's like,
but I don't know if other people, you know, how many other people
are going to be engaged, becauseI still think that there's a little bit
of a stigma attached to it.And so this, you know, are
you going to have like a basketballteam of a bunch of people who're all
on performance enhancing drugs? I meanmaybe, but are they going to have

(43:43):
the sponsorship or are they gonna havethe people the time to put the energy
into all those kinds of things.What kind of performance enhancing drugs improve your
cardiovascular health is very different than somethingthat builds muscle, yeah, and endurance,
like those are different recipes, differentapproaches. Sure, and so somebody
like for example, but like along distance bicyclist is just has these massive

(44:05):
quads already and they're natural, youknow, so I can't even imagine what
they're kind of look like, Well, yeah, they're gonna be not armstrong.
He wasn't natural. Yeah, sothey're gonna be used, Well they're
not naturally, they're gonna be usingthings like EPO of this stuff. What
does epo? And it just increases, Uh, it's injectable. It increases
red blood cell count. Okay,so guys, who are you know anything
with endurance you take EPO. I'venever taken it, but I know guys

(44:29):
who have. They said, youknow, they went into the gym and
they squatted, you know what theydid for ten for twenty reps. So
if you're going to like a highaltitude, high altohol the red blood cell
do anything where you know they're burningthrough glycogen, they're blurning, they're just
going up a mountain. Yeah,the extra red blood cell count is huge
where it's like I'm getting red bloodcells taken out. Yeah. Yeah,
Well, and that's interesting. Nowit's like I think a lot of people

(44:52):
are very comfortable and talking about whatthey're gear they're taking, and so there's
a lot of more resources on theInternet then there was before. Like you
know, even you know, whenI started podcasting twenty years ago, the
Internet was so young that there wasnot a lot of forums, and you
know, people were learning how tolift weights through Scott Herman's videos on YouTube.

(45:13):
Now there's just like a thousand Instagramaccounts and you know, Reddit pages
and wiki articles and sites that sellthis stuff. You know, and it
comes with a big label, notfor human consumption. I think the bigger
issue now is finding the right information. You know, there's so much noise
out there. It's like, okay, we've got so much information. Now

(45:34):
we got to learn how to narrowit down and find the people who are
actually like have the good stuff andthe other people who are just like bsing
us. So I think that's thenext generation or the next thing we got
to look out for is like gettingrid of the noise and making sure,
especially in this industry with performance enhancingdrugs, we're listening to the right people,
you know, or we're keeping ourselvessafe because there's a lot of bad

(45:55):
advice out there. There's you know, taking certain compound ones, just ridiculous
dosages, things that are not sustainablefor the long run, and yeah do
they work. Yeah. With antabolics, more is like more for the most
part, If you take more,it works more, but uh, it
only takes up Yeah, exactly doyou want to die? Do you want

(46:16):
to live till you're fifteen? Youdid? Like just the massive amount of
steroids at one time, I mean, what's you probably'd I mean one cycle
at you probably would be fine ifyou did a massive cycle, I mean
your blood pressure would probably go out. For most people, your blood work
would look terrible. But you know, if you did it for three months
and got off, you'd everything wouldgo back to normal. You know.

(46:37):
But I'm not advising anybody to dothat. But it's not like all the
one massive steroid cycle you do.It's the massive steroid cycle that you do
for twenty years or ten years oryou never come off these large dosages.
You know. It scares me becausea lot of these some of these bodybuilder
guys, it's like I see themon stage at the show, and then

(46:57):
I see them six months in theoff season and they look much the same.
It's like, uh like unwind,Yeah, what do you do?
Like if you look to keep blasted? I mean, Henry, I mean
there's guys doing it. It's I'mnot gonna say what you should do or
shouldn't do, but if if youwant to live a longer, healthy life,
that's certainly not, you know,not the way to do it.

(47:19):
There's certainly you know with and that'smy big point is there's a way to
do anabolics, and to do themlike the right way where you can do
them and you could live you couldlive a long life and you don't have
to worry about health issues. Youknow, there's ways to do it right
where we can do this, wecan live an enhanced life and be as
normal as possible. Well, therehelps to find a good doctor that supports

(47:44):
this. There are some doctors whoare like you know, they think that
having a very very low amount oftestosterone as an adult male or even for
women as well is to be expected. And and part of that as a
result of microplastics, it's a resultof pesticides, as a result of sedentary

(48:05):
behavior, it's a result of youknow, processed foods and all kinds of
obstacles that we face today that wedidn't face fifty years ago. So the
average is now so low that it'scausing all these kinds of other diseases.
And so when we want to talkabout like helping people fight disease, a
lot of doctors I'm not looking atthe big picture. And so finding a

(48:27):
doctor that has a history of wellness, has a history of fighting HIV and
AIDS, has more resources and moreof an appetite to sort of question traditional
medical or even maybe just a littlebit of a holistic approach in the sense
of, hey, I'm not herejust to put you on more drugs.
You know, let's find a solution. Maybe let's find the actual root cause

(48:51):
of what's going on and attack itfrom there instead of putting band aids on,
you know, on symptoms which youknow aren't addressing the real issues.
So yeah, all those all thosethings so well, and you know,
and part of it is, likeyou know, with the Enhanced Games is
like, you know, will therebe bodybuilding at the Olympics, at the
pseudo Olympics or the Enhanced Olympics orweightlifting? Will it be that? Or

(49:15):
yeah? Yeah, because now we'rehere's Devil's advocate. What if they do
this right enhance Games and all therecords are like the same, What does
that say? Right? Well,I think people give a lot of credit
to steroids and then everybody thinks thatsteroids is a magic pill. And even
like, you know, even talkingabout it on a podcast. There's been

(49:37):
podcasts that have had their accounts revokedon YouTube, for example, because they're
talking about medical information, you know. And it's like, you know,
and this is like the way Iapproach any advice that I give people.
This is advice you are making adecision to go in that direction. You
know, it's I'm not a doctor, I'm not somebody who's you know,

(49:57):
we're just saying this is the optionsthat you do have, and whether you
decide to do that, that isin your hands. But I would always
recommend get your blood work done,talk to a doctor, and you know,
be as transparent about this. Youknow. Now, one area of
opportunity that exists now that didn't existfive years ago is all this like peptide
SARMs and other stuff. And youknow, with human growth hormone, there's

(50:22):
always been such bullshit being sold onthe internet that an expensive bullshit, expensive
bullshit that doesn't do anything. Youknow. It's like and people say the
human growth hormone is the the mostone of the most powerful, you know,
performance and has drugs that no onehas access to and so much people
have access to they do you know, that's one of the things that along

(50:44):
with met Foreman that they're taking forlongevity. Well, met Foreman doesn't cost
nothing, and certainly like Thomas Sartindoesn't cost anything, you know. But
and telomus sartin is a blood pressuremedication that is also a myostat inhibitor,
so it helps your body be moremuscular than it normally would, just because

(51:05):
you're trying to lower your blood pressure. And so some of these guys are
taking even smaller dosages of Thomas Sartinand they're taking met Foreman along with human
growth hormone to try to like basicallylook their best and be as jacked as
possible. But in terms of likewhat's really exciting this past couple of months
is the availability of i butta morin, which is commercially sold as MK six

(51:30):
seven seven, a growth hormone secretagoggso cretagog and basically it raises your your
growth hormone in natural production, naturalproduction of them. And I'll tell you
this. I took some last nightand I conked out to sleep, and

(51:52):
I woke up with an appetite andI was just like, this is the
real deal. Yeah, those aretwo of the main side effects of it,
which is great, you know,increase hunger, increased appetite, and
sleep. So's people, right,marijuana K seven seven Yeah, Yeah,
that's what it stands for, MaryJane, and it definitely Yeah, I

(52:14):
use it with a lot of myclients, usually before bed twenty five milligrams,
and it is yeah, good forthat. Usually some weight game weight
gain is associated with it too,once they start taking it. You know,
water, I mean a little bitof both, and some people say,
well, you know, they feela little bit like bigger but water
here a little bit. But youknow, I think it's definitely promoting lean
muscle gain. So yeah, howdo you know when is a good time

(52:36):
to recommend that for a client orfor yourself? You know, I usually
not pre contest, just because you'regonna you could hold water from it,
so off season and usually in thedepths of an off season or not like
right away. So when things startto get difficult to eat, which is
a common thing when you're trying toshovel down a lot of food for bodybuilders

(52:58):
trying to put on size. Soyeah, yeah, when that starts to
come in where you're you know,the meals are getting hard to eat,
it's hard to get down all thecalories, the MK six seven seven can
be a really good thing to addin there, or if you're you know,
if finances is a thing like wewere talking about, I mean,
growth hormone is not cheap, andit's also hard to find legit stuff.

(53:19):
You could be taking fake stuff andyou're really wasting your money obviously, So
the MK six seven seven can bea good alternative, you know, something
to use. It's way it's goingto be way more for it to give
people. The example here, likea very inexpensive and cheap human growth hormone
cycle like two i us a day, which is nothing. Madonna takes four

(53:42):
i us, you know. Yeah. Of course Sylvester's still on taking like
eight to twelve, you know,so that's like, you know, four
hundred to fifteen hundred a month.MK six seventy seven for you know,
high dosages is twenty five to fiftydollars a month. And for people that
don't know human growth ho MoMA andit's just you know, it helps like
you grow as a teenager, thatkind of thing. But it's really it's

(54:04):
about repairing what you have. Youknow. So if you if you rip
your muscles apart, it's that's goingto help it grow because you repair it.
But it's also going to be goodfor your they say, for your
like your brain, your joints,your skin, for all sorts of things,
your hair, because your body isconstantly being destroyed by the environment,
and so this helps just repair imbring it back, and that's why they're
looking at it as like a fountainof youth drug. Well, and what

(54:28):
do you think about intermittent fasting,Like some people say that interamnifasting like basically
not eating until halfway of the dayor not eating like halfway before you go
to bed, can stimulate your bodyto release human growth hormone. I think
it depends on your goals. Ithink fasting can be a good thing.
If muscle building is like your numberone priority you want to put on muscles,

(54:51):
I would not be fasting. Fastingis not a good idea. But
for people just where weight loss isthe goal, or people who don't have
a lot of structure, fast andcan be a great easy way to get
in a calorie restricted state. Andsome of those things you want to talk,
yeah, like autophagy, growth hormonebeing released because you're not eating food

(55:13):
and that's giving times for the that'sgiving time for the your cells and your
body to get repaired. That's theidea of autophagy. I think there's some
of that. I wouldn't you know, I don't think fasting is the end
all, be all so I thinkin general it would be if you're someone
who wants to build muscle, getbigger muscles, don't fast. If you're
someone who's looking to lose weight,just weight, and you're maybe just you

(55:38):
know, not someone who's really thatconcerned about your muscle mass, then fasting
is something that could be really usefuland to know sort of the dosages and
whether this is right for you atthis point in time in your training.
Consult with a coach like Matt oranybody I work with. Yeah, I
mean I work with clients where wedo. I mean I work with bodybuilders.
I work with people who we dofast. We do you know,

(56:00):
we fast in the morning. They'renot bodybuilders. When I have implement implemented
it with bodybuilders is when we're havingdigestion issues or we have a you know,
GI distress, we've lost insulin sensitivityfasting. This isn't a bodybuilding sense.
Maybe like once a week on anoff day is something I've we could

(56:20):
you know, it's implemented. Sometimes. How do you know if you've lost
insulin sensitivity? I mean you could. I mean one thing you could do
is check your just for data,is to check your fasting your your fasting
blood glucose levels, which should bearound ninety no more if you're a bodybuilder,
no more than one hundred in themorning, you know what I mean.
If you're running up higher than that, you're you're definitely lost some insulin

(56:43):
sensitivity. So that's the number oneway. Number two would be feeling lethargic.
You're noticing like you're eating food,but it's just going to your stomach,
you know what I mean, Likeyou're just gaining fat, you're not
really gaining it anywhere else. Yeah, those are like some good ones right
there. You know, tired,you're you're seeing fat gain in areas you
don't like. And yeah, oragain checking your fasting blood glucose levels.

(57:08):
You can get a blood glucose monitorfrom Walmart about twenty bucks. You could
check that every morning or once aweek. And yeah, not a bad
idea. And part of it islike the blood glucose monitors are you can
get them on Amazon. Yeah,ridiculously cheap, even cheaper. Yeah,
those continuous blood glucose monitors. Alot of fitness people have been taking their

(57:29):
studies that come out and they saythey don't do shit because just like this
snooze button on your alarm clock andignore it if you do ignore it.
Yeah, I mean I have Iwant to experiment with one one of my
clients. He's a borderline diabetic wherehe's getting a lot better. We've been
working on him with his diet,but he has one and it's just fun

(57:49):
to actually kind of just see howit tracks throughout the day. He uses
it, he looks it up tohis phone, right. And part of
it is that people have the expectationthat your blood glucose should be out of
are steady level, but actually doesspike o. It spikes after you eat.
Depending on the person, Your bloodglucose levels spike when you work out.
You cannot eat anything, and youcould go work out and have a

(58:12):
blood glucose of one hundred and beworking out and it could be up at
one fifty one sixty, you know. So it's yeah, it's it's not
a something that stays the same throughoutthe day, no, but more That's
why fasting levels are a good markerto use throughout the day. If you
are someone who's tracking and you're notdiabetic, one fifty one sixty should be
about as high as you should begetting And one thing that I've learned from

(58:34):
different coaches, including you, islike, don't underestimate the idea the power
of carbohydrates to fuel your workout.Like so many you know, so many
people like I have coworkers are likecarbs are evil, carbs are bad,
and I'm like, carbs are animportant part of you, your existence,
and so like one example is usingsomething like carbal lin or highly chained,

(58:59):
high branch chain and closer dexter.Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah,
just fast yeah, exactly, justfast acting carbohydrates that get into your system
really fast, and taking those withinan hour or during your workout can actually
give you a nice pump and actuallygive you a lot of more energy to
get a very effective workout. Ago, I Evanon, I noticed that like
last week actually, or was ita couple of weeks ago, you and

(59:21):
I did a back workout where youknow, you can see that photo that
we took afterwards and on my Instagram, and I just look huge. I
looked like your dad. Yeah,you were pumped up there, you know.
And it was like an interesting thingbecause I like, in my mind,
I'm just like, well, okay, so that was the contest.
And now it's time to rebuild andgrow and heal, you know, and

(59:42):
to do something else for the future, you know. And so to take
that photo and seeing how the powerof good nutrition, good carbohydrates and a
good workout can actually be very beneficial. Yeah, Carbohydrates are one of the
most important things, especially with physiqueathletes, because it's the one new nutrient
that can drastically, not drastically,but can change your physique very fast,

(01:00:05):
you know, So you can gofrom flat to full within you know,
fifty one hundred grams of carbs,two hundred grams of carbs, and that
if you're lean and you have muscle, that is going to drastically change the
way you look, you know.From the average person may not know what
they're looking at, but they wouldgo, oh wow, you know,
oh wow, you look a lotbetter now. I don't know, I
don't know what happened, but youlook better. And it's just the fullness.

(01:00:28):
It's the fullness of the muscle.It's that muscle that is now full
and is pressing up against the skin. Well. And it's like people who
are you know, doing party drugsand trying to get you know, attention
at on a dance floor may notbe the best effective thing to look your
best. Maybe just having you know, a handful of grapes or you know,

(01:00:49):
a capri sun or some gummy bears, not gnawing, not gnawing on
your on your teeth, with youreyes bugged out and not the best look.
Last time you were on the podcast, did you get any attention?
I know that some people messaged youon social media and they were asking for
photographs. Yes they were. Therewas probably slave to the muscle. Yeah,

(01:01:12):
could have been. He started hisonly fans by the way, Yeah,
the congratulations. I might have tostart another business. So who knows.
I'm I have an entrepreneurial spirit,so we'll see. Well, you
know, that's the thing a lotof these bodybuilders are doing sort of like
muscle worship pay per view sites.You know, we got to we do
not haggle over the price of yourunderwear. You set a price, you
stay. I'm firm. I'm firm. This is the yeah. And did

(01:01:37):
you did you what did they offerany money for like erotic photos of yourself?
You know I didn't. I didn'tget that far. I'm sure find
out with the prices, I know, I guess I need to find the
price and we'll figure it out.But yeah, I didn't get that far
because I'm like, I'm starting,you know, a only fans or I'll
kind of only flonds, which isa basically it's going to be a muscle

(01:02:00):
worship videos where we sit down andeat custard. Are going to do some
local custard low coloring. Yeah,I mean that's a little high calories.
Is that part of your diet?No, well you do it with with
monk fruits. Oh okay like that? What about uh some sugar free yeah,

(01:02:20):
missus Butterworths crap broulet. Well doI still love the sugar free sugar
free maple syrup better than the realmaple syrup? Which way? Which one
do you use? I got?I bought this one and I can't see
the brand name off from over here, but it's like it was. It
was sold at the grocery store inTexas and Austin out of the h g
B, and they don't sell itin Chicago, so I have to order

(01:02:44):
it on it. I cannot eatmy oatmeal without my sugar free syrup in
it. I love it and itdoesn't taste any different. I put on
my pancake. It's witchcraft, youknow, the real maple syrup to me
taste, Oh no, I preferthat's better, you know. And part
of it is because it doesn't giveyou that sugar rush. You know that.
I'm not necessarily a fan. Youknow, sugar like maple sugar.

(01:03:07):
But it's delicious, but it coachlike you get a coating of like sugar
in your mouth after it, you'relike and so so. Mike on Instagram
had a great question. He posted, Okay, while back, do you
have a handle? Uh? Hesaid? Does jacking off raised to sauce
throne levels? Should I be rubbingout one before I hit the gym?

(01:03:31):
And I said to him, Iwas like, well, that's the case.
Gims would have rubout rooms instead ofposing. I'm not cleaning that just
you know, I think if youget the urge before you go to the
gym, you know you can doyour business. That's okay. I just
I don't think it's going to affectyour hormones, like honestly, as a
it's a serious question, but Ithink it would just affect being tired.

(01:03:52):
I like to relax, where likeI want to walk into that gym tent
right, you kind of want tofeel it, like, yeah, exactly
what some blue balls. I consultedwith the scientists that face the fun Headquarters
and they actually, your disosterone levelsdo go up when you're masturbating, when
you're having sex, but the minuteyou ejaculate then they go back then.

(01:04:15):
And some athletes have reported edging,which is what young people say when you
sixtually stimulate yourself but you don't ejaculate, can actually lead to sustained but this
is like you know, wink wink, sustained higher levels of testosterone. What

(01:04:36):
I think is more effective actually,and there's another study that come out is
chewing sugar free bubble gum can havea stimulant effect on your brain that wakes
you up. And so chewing gumfifty minutes into your workout or the beginning
of your workout and then being anenvironment that's very exciting for you, whether

(01:04:58):
it's sexual or happy or joyful.That's why like gym's with shitty managers or
shitty hours where the gym's about toclose is not necessarily good because it creates
a negative, frustrating environment, andso you want to be at a gym
that's open twenty four hours America's Gym. Shout out to you, brother Brian.

(01:05:18):
You know it's important to be inan environment that makes you happy.
Yeah, and happiness is really criticalto buildings. How many times do we
see this too where we just yourelated to just the happiness thing, but
just like the idea of going toa good gym and just being like,
oh, the atmosphere at that gymwas amazing, you know, like just

(01:05:39):
training there just there's something about thatgym and the feeling there that just makes
me stronger. I think we've allbeen to gym's like that, and I
think that's exactly what you're just you'regetting to, which is well a gym
with with the dumbbells are missing,we're stolen, yes exactly. Or there's
like a support Yeah, there's aputting gyms on blasts Cheetah gym closes early.

(01:05:59):
I would go to the Export onState Street in the middle of the
night at two in the morning,and there would be I mean every night
there'd just be like a dance offgoing on. First of off, they'd
work out and then there'd be likea dance off that would go on in
the mirror, like these two guyswould be dancing stranger. Yeah, they
were like a nightclub dancing or likehip hop dancing, like you know,
they're listening to their rap, practicingtheir breakdown. Yeah, they're practicing their

(01:06:20):
practice, they break dancing moves.Yeah. I see a lot of people
dancing at the gym in between theirsets, which is yeah, no,
no musical theater dancing, unfortunately.No, there's a bunch of I've seen
people ballroom dancing in the in thein the in the studios. Yeah.
Oh yeah. We were in Austin, Texas at Gold's Gym on a middle
Fiskville Road, I always want tocall them Fistville Road. And in there

(01:06:44):
there was like a country western ballroomdancing couple and they were like jacked and
beautiful and they were practicing their ballroomdancing, and I was just like I
had to stop my workout just watchthem, you know. And I was
like and I was like, God, you guys are so amazing, you
know. And a lot of peopledon't take advance to those studios, you
know. Yeah, but yeah,it's like I think the frustrating thing with

(01:07:04):
living in an urban environment is thata lot it's cost so much to operate
and run a gym. That alot of the gyms have like limitations to
what they do. And so ifyou go on social media and you look
at you know, Steve Cook orChris Bumsett or any of these kind of
like people that you worship, theyusually live in areas where it's a lot
more affordable to start a gym orto live. Yeah, and so the

(01:07:27):
obstacle of living in a major cityis just when there's when it's expensive to
run a gym and expensive to live, then the gyms are going to have
a lot of more limitations and hoursor facilities and size and size, you
know, or market. I feellike people out in the suburbs are bigger
than people in the cities because theyhave more room to grow. It's like
a goldfish, right, the oldfish is only in a yet it's so

(01:07:48):
big for its cage. Right.Yeah, you got to put the snake
in the bigger cage. If youget you get real big. Yeah,
there could be some truth. Youget out into the country and there's like
those big you know, farm bredcountry boys. They're the biggest out there
women, right you big as abarn door. Oh yeah. Steve on
Facebook I wanted to know what's themost overlooked training exercise. I think we

(01:08:09):
answered that earlier. That people overlook is posing, well, exercise,
yeah, I mean yeah, obviouslyposing in general is overlooked. Exercise squad,
the squad. I mean, Ithink the squad is the one.
I mean we talked about it,you know at that show where a lot
of people don't have that leg development. It's not there. It's they have
leg developments, just not that aslike a winner, right, winner had

(01:08:32):
the leg And when you talk tomost guys with great leg development, great
glute development, squatting is part ofit. Yeah, maybe not a freeway
barbell squad, but it has tobe something where you're getting deep, you
know. And some people really theylove that Smith machine, the Smith machine,
squatting, hack, squatting, anythingwhere you're able to get that deep
range of motion that's going to buildyou. It's going to build big legs.

(01:08:53):
I think I describe it as thatbodybuilding is that you made a beautiful
meal, and posing is the plating, so you put it on a play
and the squats the legs is thetable. It's the pedestal where the work
of art is being pretty sure It'slike, if you're making a sculpture out
of clay, how big of aslab of clay do you get to start
with? And the bigger you canget that squat, the bigger you can

(01:09:15):
get those basic lifts up. Thebigger slab of clay you get to sculpt
with. Tell me more about thatbig slag. It's just a big firm.
And last, we're not these oxytocin. It's the love hormone. And
there's all these studies that actually showthat just petting your dog or shaking hands

(01:09:36):
with somebody, or getting a hugor just physical touch from a warm furry
animal or a person you love ora friend can be extremely beneficial in stimulating
human growth hormone and recovery, loweringstress. Yeah, and a lot of
the people that I talk to whoare like dealing with traumas stuff like that,

(01:10:00):
I started calling it nude therapy.Is if you're with a partner or
somebody that you see on a sexualbasis. Yeah, a lot of like,
what what this is a Western nerds, you know trauma thing, and
some other cultures too, is likethey don't spend time or energy just touching
each other without sex on the agenda, and so just being able to touch

(01:10:23):
somebody else's body in a non sexualbut an actually loving way can be extremely
powerful. And just in buildings,just a hug, hugging somebody, it's
like you hug somebody, there's likethat you hug them. I don't want
to get like two philosophical or deep, but like you hug somebody, there's
like that space that's created. Youguys create when you hug somebody, You

(01:10:45):
create this other space that's like maybeit's love. It's just like an empty
that's not empty, but it's likeyou create this like home that the two
of you have when you hug.You know, it's like an empty loving
space. If you want to say, So whatever that is, you know
what I mean? I think thatis. It's going back to exactly what
you're talking about. What do youthink, Like, you know, we
don't create like it were. We'remen to have that, especially aterosexual men

(01:11:09):
or even gay Yeah whatever, itjust meant in general, even if you're
gay, I don't. I thinka lot of the same stigma still apply
to being a male with a penis, you know what I mean, Like
you're supposed to Yeah, you're supposedto be tough and can't be emotional.
Would you tell your clients like they'relike struggling with dealing with stress, Like,
just get more hugs from you know, anybody who consents you know,

(01:11:30):
a dog. How about yeah?Sure, how about just get around?
Like how about our get around people? You know, go out to dinner
and go to the gym and besocial. I think that's so important.
We're human, we're social creatures,you know, we don't have that social
interaction. I think it's not good. What do you make of people who
spend a lot of money developing homegens? Then like no, because part

(01:11:50):
of it is they're dealing the homegens because they there's you know, they're
like Jimuary, I hate having towork in with other people and they're judging
me, probably out in the tothe wife, kids, that kind of
stuff. I think we would haveto look at the other the rest of
your life, right, It's like, yeah, if you're secluding yourself and
everything, probably not a good idea. But yeah, the one aspect of
your life is the gym. Youdon't want to be your own people,

(01:12:12):
but you got friends and a sociallife outside of that. Sure, but
I don't think it's healthy to dothings just to seclude yourself, right,
and just so I want to getaway from people. I don't think that's
healthy. Matt, thank you somuch for being my coach and coaches so
many other people and coming and joiningus coaching bodybuilders for success, Yes,

(01:12:32):
bodybuilders, powerlifters, anyone who wantsto get in shape, look good naked.
Will you impress their partner? Willyou coach the in the new division
men's wellness, that's if they haveit, which is the new thing that
everybody. I mean, I thoughtsome people were gonna have a coronary over
that. What's going on? What'shappening? So it was like, yeah,

(01:12:53):
so in Brazil and the Bodybuilding Federationin Brazil created a new category called
men's Wellness. And maybe Matt canspeak to this because it basically wellness is
a category for women. And sothe competitor who won has very round hips
like a woman, so and eitherhas a very small penis or may have

(01:13:15):
been tucking their penis to look likehe had a vagina. Visually, yeah,
he had the female like the thewhat the females would wear as far
as shorts, pet posing trunks,right, and the male from the middle
up was basically a very lean,muscular body of male from very male presenting,

(01:13:35):
and then from the neck of itwas very feminine and with long hair,
and then from the neck well fromthe waist out it was like a
chicks like ass. I'm like,whoa, look at that ass and dice
smash that part of it is.Look, gender is just a letter on
your driver's license. And I knowthat, like it caused a lot of
controversy, but it also like itwas interesting because it was like people were

(01:13:57):
like, trance people should have theirown division in their own categories, and
the trans people go, okay,well, men's wellness here it is,
and they're like, wait a minute, not like that, like that like
let go somewhere else, please thesebigots because it's oh no, they don't
want trans people winning anything, likegirl, you act like a girl.
And then they say, okay,I'm a girl. Now no, you're
still a guy. And then theUnited States there are trans bodybuilding federations and

(01:14:23):
contests where you know, it's likethe enhanced games is like do whatever you
want. Yeah, And I thinkin a sport too, it's like bodybuilding.
It's like we're all taking hormones tochange our body. It's like who
It's almost like why we were likethrowing throwing stones in a glasshouse. It's
like, so, come on,like, so did this winner? This

(01:14:44):
person won because they have the likethe body of like a man and a
woman or is that just like isthis a unique situation that they want?
Is that what they're looking so?So the announce so after it was there
was some whatever you want to callit, controversy over it. People know
on both sides were making a stiron Instagram on social media. The president
of the NPC, which is themajor you know physique National Physique Committee,

(01:15:11):
the biggest amateur body, Belily Show, said oh, well, well we're
not We're not entering it anymore divisions. So this isn't we're not creating We're
not creating a new division. Sothis is this isn't going to be a
new division yet. I guess,Brail, So what was going on in
Brazil? I guess, yeah,So it's just in Brazil at the moment.
I can't wait to go over it. Loves wild Wild. A lot
of my favorite people are resilient,but as a you know, for me,

(01:15:32):
as a coach, I don't dowhatever you want for sure if you're
if that makes you happy, andthen hey, it gives me more clients.
There's a new movie coming out calledLove Lies Bleeding, starring Christen Stewart
from you know, Twilight and ELSEIand Katie O'Brien, who you might recognize
from the Mandalorians. She was theevil communications officer part of the Empire and

(01:15:56):
uh so uh Kristin Stewart manages agym and she falls hard for Jackie,
who's Katie O'Brien who comes to town. She's heading into Vegas to pursue her
dream of being a bodybuilder, buttheir love soon leads to violences. They
get pulled it into a deep webof criminal activities, and there's lots of
scenes of Kristen Stewart I guess shootingup Katie Katie O'Brien to get her all

(01:16:21):
juiced up on Royd's amazing. That'llbe fun to see waiting twenty years for
that. So it's juiced up womenwomen? Yeah, well you know,
I mean, are we going tosee some sex scenes? Well, look
at you getting your well like youknow, most of the women at that
bodybuilding competition most of them are takingsome kind of yeah, oh yeah,

(01:16:41):
I mean it's totally I mean,I guess, yeah, people think steroids
old men take them. But yeah, these women are taking not the same
amounts, but yeah they're taking They'retaking some and probably some astrogen because they
want to balance things out. DifferentYeah, different compounds, different cocktails,
but the same results. It wasinteresting backstage in the bodybuilding competition. The
men and the women were very nervousaround each other. And part of it

(01:17:04):
is because like everybody thinks, like, you know, you hear these rumors
about the Olympics, everybody's fucking afterthey're done. At the bodybuilding petitions,
nobody's fucking, you know. Imean, and you know, I have
an if people. I think peopleare too tired after the show, you
know what I mean, They're justlike it's just it's depleted. It's like
your sex drive doesn't come back usuallyfor like a week after. And they're

(01:17:27):
there with their families, their spouses. You know, they'd be like flirting
with their co competitors, you know, although I got to say they were
all pretty fetching, you know,and and and so you know, part
of it is to me is like, look, you're you're not You're not
going to be banging anybody or butso they were really tense around each other.
So I got up to the womenand I'm like, oh my god,

(01:17:47):
your makeup is so beautiful, youknow, so that kind of outs
me, like, your makeup looksgood too. I can barely see that
you penciled in your eyebrows and havecuns. Why just a little bit because
it hurts you use every trick inthe book, right, and so yeah,

(01:18:08):
so I'm like admiring some of thesewomen who are just gorgeous, you
know. And part of it islike when we think about bodybuilding, we
think for women, we think,you know, she hulk, We think
of a very muscular woman, butwe don't think about the esthetics of it.
And these women, they could goto any beauty pageant, Miss America,

(01:18:30):
USA, whatever, and when theretoo, they were just stunning.
And you know, as somebody whospent a lifetime surrounded by drag queens who
are trying to create this illusion,to actually see the deal, the real
deal, up close and personal,I was just like wow. I mean,
they were just stunning, and nobodywas going around be like, are
you really a man? Are youreally a woman like you know, if

(01:18:54):
you presented that gender a new past, ain't nobody going to say nothing.
You know, there's definitely girls whoyou know, the bodybuilder wanted clad the
physique girls they're a little more youknow, it's like more muscular, that's
but yeah, when you're talking aboutbikini and figure, yeah, it's definitely
feminine or elegant. Why why,I guess the reason for all these kind

(01:19:14):
of divisions and categories is to includepeople to participate, right because in the
old days, it was just bodybuildingand that was that. I mean before
yeah, before there was literally youknow we're I mean going back twenty years,
it was bodybuilding. It was women'swomen's physique and or not physique figure,

(01:19:35):
so bodybuilding, figure and fitness,and that was it. That was
it. There was no other division. So, yeah, you would go
to the bodybuilding shows, and ifyou weren't a bodybuilder as far as like
very muscled up and jacked, youreally didn't necessarily have a have a place,
you know, And for women,you had to fit into the category
of figure which had certain criteria orfitness, which was like a almost like

(01:20:00):
a gymnastics routine, so which they'rebringing back now actually, but yeah,
so now it's much more inclusive.The it's about, you know, yeah,
the inclusivity and growing the sport.And I think it's good. I
think it's good. But do youthink like the evolution of these categories is
being done to invite people who normallywouldn't want to compete to participate. Yeah,

(01:20:26):
and I think they there was acalling. What was going on with
bodybuilding at the time, you know, we're going back fIF like I was
saying fifteen twenty years ago, wasthe guys the physiques were getting the stomachs
were getting big, they were almostgetting too blown out where they weren't looking
aesthetic anymore. And I think thatwas the start of was what now is
classic physique saying we need to finda balance here where we need to tone

(01:20:49):
these physiques down a little bit andbring it back more to a marketable,
mainstream look, because it was almostgetting to like freak show status. And
so yeah, I think that openedthe door for classic physique, Men's physique,
and all these other divisions, andthen you could still have the freaks.
I don't want to call them freaks, but you can just still have
the big the big, huge dudeswho are trying to get as big as

(01:21:10):
open. They'll take that as acompliment. You freaks. Yeah, the
big freak. I mean, thisis something you've won yourself. Yeah,
I mean I wanted time. Yeah, I mean I totally did bodybuilding.
I wanted to push the limits youare as I could. I wanted to
be a freak. That was alwaysmy goal. So but yeah, it's
good to have the other avenues forother people. And as a coach,
it's great because not everybody wants tobe No, not everybody wants to be

(01:21:32):
a bodybuilder. Not everybody is willingto do what it takes to be a
bodybuilder at that highest level. So, and I'm not saying classic hysiker men's
physique is easier, but it certainlyis going to be less strenuous on your
body, and it's more of achievablephysique than getting to three hundred pounds with
shredded glutes. Well, I say, somebody like Geoffrey Vassel, you know

(01:21:54):
who he's that Like, I'm I'mclassic physique and I'm like, dude,
you're open. You know, he'shuge. A lot of these guys,
now, I mean, yeah,anybody who thinks. I talked to a
lot of classic physique guys who wantto do it, and it's like,
I'm like, you just need toget young guys. I'm like, you
need to get bigger, like youneed You don't realize how big these guys
are. These guys are like bodybuildersfifteen years ago. Like you are a

(01:22:14):
bodybuilder essentially, just with better linesand you a smaller waist. But a
lot of the training and the nutritionis going to be the same, you
know, supplements will be a littlebit different. I'm sure you're getting asked
this question and I'm sorry, wegot to wrap this up here. Old.
Yeah, but it's like, youknow, this question is like how
long does that tank together to thisthing? But it's like, how long

(01:22:34):
is somebody who's going from like classicphysique to open bodybuilding taking to get to
that size and then you know,trimmed down and cut for a contest,
like if they were so if youwere off like a bodybuilder training and then
you were going to get ready fora show, how long it would take
Like somebody who's you know, haddone crop classic physiques already under their belts,

(01:22:56):
you know, someone like me,Right, So if I I think
it's a question for me to answerbecause I'm fifty and so those the consequences
of me getting to three hundred poundsis terrifying medically if you're right, sure,
but so somebody in their twenties orthirties that might not be so.
Yeah, I think you need tolook at like something a little abstract,
like they're like your training age first, like how long have you been training?

(01:23:19):
How many years do you have underyour belt? And then you're really
going to be able to determine howlong it's going to take to push it
to that next level. If you'retwenty five, twenty six and you've done
really well at classic physique, itmay take you. You could be two
years, a couple of good offseasons, and you could be ready to
step on an open stage. Youcould I do love to eat. You
could put on twenty thirty pounds amuscle with the right training and adding in

(01:23:42):
different supplements and stuff. So butwho knows. But you know, I
mean, you could take that sametwenty six year old and this is what
I mean where and let's say they'vealready done everything as far as like supplement
wise, there's nowhere else to goso it's like, I'm probably going to
be like, well, you mayhave already pushed you, you've used all
your race cards. You may nothave that much growth left, you know,
or the growth you have left isgoing to take longer than a year

(01:24:03):
or two, it's going to takefive or six years. So you think
it's better for some people to justhold off on using performance has and gear
in the beginning. Minimal effective doses. Yeah, so always be keeping back,
pull back, or take as youtake, take as little as you
can to get the most out ofout of it. You know. This

(01:24:24):
is the opposite of more is more, though more is more in the sense
of more works, but it's notsustainable. So that's what we got to
think about when we're talking about bodybuilding, is what is sustainable? Because building
a physique isn't something that is goingto take two or three years and then
you're going to stop and keep it. It's something you're gonna have to take
maybe two or three years to getto that level and then you're gonna have

(01:24:45):
to continue to do that for therest of your life. And yeah,
taking more and more not sustainable.So what's sustainable? Finding a minimal effective
dose that you can grow off ofand letting your training, nutrition, you
know, your life style do thework along with the gear. But yeah,
I mean you could. You knowyou're playing You're playing a dangerous game.

(01:25:08):
You're going to be pushing it superhard all the time. Well,
Matt, thank you so much foran intellect and experience. Thank you guys
for having me. Actually, Ialways have a lot of fun when I
come and talk to you guys.Thank you. I appreciate it. Love
you come here. Yeah. Yeah, it's called feasts of fun. You
know. Let's Grow Big Together isa production a feast of fun. If
you hate ads as much as Ido, you can listen for just pennies

(01:25:30):
a serving at a feast of funon our Patreon patreon dot com slash feast
of Fun. And of course that'ssoon coming soon, should we? I
don't. I don't want to saythe name just yet, but we are
developing a a bodybuilding performance arn't nudityfocused only fans just for a fan Yeah
yeah, I tried. Nobody canwhistle. There you go where it's we

(01:25:56):
will be eating custard only flonds.People like I want to see you mass
debating. I was like, thisis art. This is performance art,
and so we're going to be doingvideos paying tribute to some of the greatest
moments in performance art history, youknow, from Tim Miller to Marina Abravanovic,
Holly Hughes and Karen Finley and youknow, and doing this through but

(01:26:23):
through a modern lens. People arelike, what you're really going to do
this. I'm like, Yep,it's happening. It's coming to you soon,
and uh, there's gonna be musicto this and the like everything.
Yeah, And I'm like, Imean I want to I guess I'll put
it this way. It's part ofthe long term project is making the ship
into three D videos, so bringingthat experience right up into people's faces,

(01:26:46):
because part of it is like,you know, we live in a world
right now where we've forgotten how tobe wild and crazy and have fun.
And I'm like, you know,with this technology that's coming down the pipe
and mixed reality, mantic reality,spatial computing, whatever you want to call
it, these goggles that you puton your face and suddenly you're there.
I'm like, let's give people likesome of the experiences that I had that

(01:27:11):
shaped me when I was young andbring it right front and center to them,
you know, And and a lotof that experience was had nudity as
a as a as a main ingredient. And you can't do that on YouTube.
You can't do that on Instagram orFacebook. So I guess I'm opening
and only fans. You know,one of my first videos is going to
be just me standing there and playingthe theme to Mighty Mouse and lip syncing

(01:27:35):
it. Can you watch them naked? Of course? Of course, I
mean what was the point? Yeah, if you weren't. Can you watch
movies on this on that thing,the virtual the sapphire things, Yeah,
you can just you can pop amovie on and you're like in the movie.
That's the thing that you're sitting onthe bench with for is com man
if you if you have a job. I don't usually like to plug tech

(01:27:55):
companies, you know, but becausethey don't need the money and stuff.
But go to go like go toan Apple store right now and trying on
an Apple Vision Pro. Yeah,I'm gonna have to. It'll blow your
mind. Make sure your heart medicationsup to date. I'll take my sorry
because it is like you know,we watch we watched Star Trek and the
idea of being transported to a differentlocation instantly is interesting in theory we watch

(01:28:19):
in the movie's Marvel Universe, youknow, yeah, but to actually experiencing
as a human being, it's amind fuck. You're just like, oh
yeah, right righth Oh my god, oh my god, I'm gonna fall
you know, and you're like,oh, you have to remind yourself.
I'm just sitting in a chair,you know. And so it's like,
have you had people like fall overor like, you know any like you
know, I can't talk about it, but I say it's one of my

(01:28:43):
favorite pastimes is going to places wherepeople are putting on these said reality goggles
and watching their reaction. Yeah,because it is really some people. You
know. What's what interesting too isthat some people are just like whatever,
they just don't even cut like they'retheir their intellect is or their mind are
so uh fucked in some ways,Friede. Yeah, that there's just like

(01:29:05):
nothing excites them. But other people, man, they're screamers. I know.
I remember the ones that came outlike this is probably like ten years
ago almost they were like it's notit was much more basic. Oh no,
this is this is I know,this is going to be a whole.
Yeah, sh it's getting real.Yeah this is this was not real,

(01:29:26):
but it was still like interesting.This now, I'm sure is like
very realistic. Well because you knowin the old days with the with the
goggles, with the with these virtualreality goggles, you're like, you know,
you're playing a video game. Youknow, like even the have you
played the character games and stuff likethat, Yeah, right, you can.
Like the computer had animation, youknow, from Final Fantasy to what
it is today. It's like someof the stuff is just so hyper realistic

(01:29:48):
that you're just like, I cannotbelieve I'm watching a computer generated person.
I watched a car crash that Ithought was real the other day and I
rewatched it. It was a fakevideo game. Like I was like,
oh my god, that looks sorealistic. It's scary, I know.
And now you can put this onand and change the person you're having sex
with. Your girl friend is likeif you don't like her having brown eyes,

(01:30:10):
you want blue eyes or bigger tittiesor whatever, you're whatever you want,
Like, what are you wearing,honey, let me see what's in
your glasses? Like Tom Selleck,magnum, oh, magnum. You can
do. What was the name ofhis forget the butler, like, oh,

(01:30:34):
magnum, he's a butler. Wasthe boss? Was it was his
butler? Yeah? I don't knowwhy Tom Selleck had money. His character
was that porn stash. Did youknow got that house in Hawaii? Yeah,
the car, the stash, theshirts. I mean, this guy
was and he could always had thefriend who had a helicopter. I mean,

(01:30:58):
every porn star does get to theChappa. Remember, folks, you
can follow us on Instagram, MattClawson on Instagram and we're Mark Feelian and
me Fouselfernos And if you want togive Matt some love and shout out,
please do so. Share the showon social media and give us reviews,
and if you tell us your thoughtson iTunes and other podcast directories, let

(01:31:24):
us know how much you love.Let's grow big together and and so hard.
We've been a little scant on puttingout shows, but we're going to
be going regular now. So thanksfor listening, and thanks Matt, Thank
you, Matt, thank you guys, Thanks everybody. Mister coach Clawson feel
free to reach out. Bye everyone. By

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