Outrageous Ways Bodybuilders Overcome Injury - Dr. Jesse Roles - Let's Grow Big Together

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
In the nineteen eighties, actress andworkout guru Jane Fonda popularize the mantra no
Pain, No Gain as a wayto suggest that discomfort is necessary for muscle
growth. Unfortunately, this type ofthinking can lead folks to ignore the very
injuries that might be holding back theirgains. Let's Grow Big Together a podcast

(00:27):
that hurts so good it should beillegal, and in some places it is.
I'm Fausto Fernos and I'm Mark Fillian. In this series, we're taking
a look at the passion for muscleadventures in bodybuildings, muscle gods, muscle
worship, and practical advice. Don'tput on the games today. Physical therapists
Doctor Jesse Rolls joins us to lookat effective and outrageous things bodybuilders have done

(00:52):
over the years to overcome pain andmaximize their gains. For over a decade,
doctor Jesse has used joint and issuemanipulation, dry needle and cupping to
help everyday people and athletes look andfeel their best. Plus which supplements from
the Vitamins Store will help you recoverand which ones are a bunch of blogony,

(01:14):
phone rolling, yoga and dynamic warmupsAnd the power of blocking and love
as the ultimate muscle building therapy.Let's Grow Big Together and all the fabulous
podcasts made by Feast of Fun aremade possible because of legendary listeners just like
you. For an ad free experience. Acts as our full catalog of over

(01:37):
three thousand shows on our website fistafundot com, slash plus, or follow
us on Patreon at Patreon dot comslash Feast of Fun. Need help with
your bodybuilding, hire me to consultwith you to get to the next level.
Message me Fausto Fernans directly on Instagramand for ninety nine bucks I'll talk
to you one on one on thephone and answer every question, every single

(02:02):
question your heart desired. Good morning. Hi is this doctor Jesse. This
is how can I help you?Doctor Jesse? Rolls paging Doctor Jesse Rolls.
You're wanted on Let's Grow Big Together. Today's show is not going to

(02:23):
be Uh interviewed with Fausto. Thatthat would not be me and Mark Phelian.
That is not him, not me, Doctor Jesse, It is Uh
Carol Channing. Oh amazing. Ilove you. I you know I saw
you on the well. You knowI used to do the late night talk

(02:44):
show circuit, and I would talkabout pilates with David Letterman. Oh it's
so good, it's so good forstretching out your groin area. Do you
want me to show you, David? This actually did happen to me as
a kid. What I you know, I was a vague fan of the
late night talk shows and that's howactually was introduced to Carol Channing and pilates,

(03:07):
which she went on David Letterman andshowed him how to do pilates,
which got the audience roaring and laughter. Well, yeah, I lost a
lot of weight when I discovered itwas pilates and not piees and lattes.
These are these are true statements,correct? You know? I was made
to be the demo in my gradschool class for physical therapy when a plate's

(03:30):
instructor came in and his group iscalled pole Star, and you know the
poll right right, I know poleStar, And so of course he has
me on my hands and knees ona table in front of the entire class
and everybody's laughing and having the timewith it, and I ended up leaving
with the nickname pole Star for takea week or two. Well, doctor

(03:52):
Jesse you, doctor Jesse rolls pT, d P, DTF. Yeah,
it's all those like DPU yeah,and the tea. So what that
means is that you're a physical therapistwho works in Colorado for Colorado Performance Physical

(04:13):
Therapy. Very yes, very yes. That's my private practice clinical name.
And you're quite easy on the eyesas well as we can see from a
Instagram, doctor jessept. Oh,my goodness, flatter, thank you,
and uh, you know, Ialways you're a listener to the show,
and we were chatting, and Ithought, you know, as we get
older, you know, your bodiesdon't recover like you used to when you

(04:35):
were in high school and you werelifting weights. Like. I'm friends with
people of all ages at the gym, and I noticed that there's some guys
that are like in their you know, teens and early twenties, and they
will lift for two hours, eatsomething like I have a little snack of
the in the locker room, andthen go and play basketball or volleyball for
another two hours and not think anythingof it. Yeah, it's because their

(04:59):
bodies are all resid full of water. It's amazing full of water. Are
younger people more liquid than the olderpeople? Well, when we hit you
know, we always talked to mygrad school class again about like down arrow
everything after age like thirty five orforty. One of the things that happens
is we actually lose the ability toretain water. So like the actual macro
molecules called glycos aminoglycans that retain water, we lose them as we get older.

(05:26):
We don't have as many. Soyou can drink as much water as
you want, but our tissues don'treasy, don't retain it. So yeah,
that's the thing. These twenty yearolds bouncing around. I was playing
Vollable yesterday against all these like,you know, twenty seven year olds,
and I was like, yeah,I'm forty two. This is why,
so they're more watery. You know. It's funny because I was talking to
a guy who was a friend ofours who's a sex worker, and he
told me, he's like, yougotta stay hydrated because I noticed with my

(05:47):
older clients they all like they havebad breath because they're dehydrated. So just
make sure they want to be younger, drink more liquids. And it made
me self conscious. It made meself conscious about it, so I would
added to a point we get older. Yeah, well, like you talk
about like, you know, there'san elderly person in their skins real fragile.
It's not really their fault of thegay edge. Their bodies just don't
retain the water. So that's thething. Is there any way to retain

(06:10):
water? Where's the tree of life? What does that mean? It's like
its aging. Yeah, yeah,we lose, we lose these molecules and
we just don't have the ability retainas much. And you know, when
we're forty five, that's different thanbeing eighty five, where skin is actually
really fragile. But well, yeah, no there, doctor Jesse. We

(06:32):
are big believers and better living throughchemistry and and you know, finding alternative
pathways to look at nature in theeye and say fuck you. My number
one advice for that is my favoritepet phrase, which I stole from a
professor and I claim it for myselfand I take royalties on it now.

(06:55):
It is motion is lotion. Thatis the number one thing, and it
works in so many ways of yourlife, many applicable areas in PT.
It's how your bodies stay healthy,stays healthy. It's how your joints stay
healthy, it's how your discs andyour spines stay healthy. It's how your
muscles stay healthy. It's lubrication andyou can have that. I'll give that
to you, silicon or water based, water based, water based. You

(07:19):
just need to put a glycosomatolike andsto hold onto it. Why can't just
drink like a little bit of agun oil or what is it? No,
that's confusing through the listeners. Uhmy joke here, I'm trying to
work on it. Akyah, takesome ky Yeah, that'll absolutely work.
So it's something like I don't know. So something like walking is beneficial not

(07:41):
just for like stretching your muscles oranything like that and building strength, but
also because it's lubricating everything right,and for the right person that might be
all they need. This idea ofmotion is lotion. I mean you think
about like joint cartilage and people go, oh, this image showed I'm losing
cartlage. I might need. Well, the one thing that makes you keep
your cartilage is movement because the nutritionit gets is from the fluid inside your

(08:05):
joint that goes in and out ofthe cartilage as you move. So not
moving is bad for you. Movingis good for you. Even when you
have an injury conversely not drinking enoughwater. And my dad was like,
I'm a camel, I don't needto drink water. And we're just like,
you're so dumb. But he lovedto be an old man, you
know, he says something, Yeah, he was as old as such Pulp

(08:28):
John Paul the second when he died. Great, did you hear about this
this lady in Italy that just diedat like one hundred and eighteen years old?
I wonder what she was drinking?Water and lots and lots of vodka.
No, no, so you know, and that's why I figured,
like in terms of doing a showabout you know, because we're always talking
about like building muscle, nutrition,but there is you know, your muscle

(08:52):
really only grows when you're resting,when you're recovering. And I get this
question asked all the time by listenersand people who groping me, is how
often do you work out? AndI said, you know, everybody's going
to be different, but you wantto work out as well as often as
you're able to recover from that workout. I would totally agree. And I've

(09:15):
heard one of your other shows.I heard you. I think I think
you were saying that you did apush pull leg split. Right, So
was it six days a week?It was? You know, back when
I had back when we were doingthis podcast full time, I had a
really really cute personal trainer whose namewas Alex, and he had me doing

(09:37):
a push pull push legs pull workoutand I felt it was very effective,
but I also felt like it wasa lot want to work out? No,
no, no, and you knowone day yeah, so you know
the day the week has seven days. When we talk about workouts and we

(09:58):
talk about splits, we're talking aboutdedicate a day to a certain group of
muscles. So when people are lifting, push is usually upper body from the
chest perspective, a pull is upperbody from the back perspective, and then
legs is your the rest of thebody the legs And you know, in
terms of like that strategy that sometimesworks for people, but you know,

(10:20):
ultimately you really just want to beable to target your muscle as much as
you can recover from it. Andin terms of doing this show, I
thought it would be really good totalk to a physical therapy first, physical
therapy doctor, somebody who has alot of experience and from your own life
and also helping others in how torecover from your workouts and maximize your recovery

(10:43):
to maximize your gains. Totally appropriate. Yeah, and so the one thing
I thought would be really fun totalk about, to start talking about,
is all the stupid shit that sometimesworks and sometimes it doesn't work. You
know, I'm on list. Ifyou want to tried drigging that, Ky,
tell me how way we can doa single person case study, let's

(11:05):
just do it before and after.No, but seriously, speaking like a
marathon, runners do drink some kindof like goo. That's yeah, that's
carbohydrate based goo, and they sellthem and like running stores, you can
buy them in the end the cashregister. What is that exactly? Well,
I think it's just a boost,a boost of carbs because that gets
turned into energy real quick, right. I mean, like I think even

(11:26):
at the Safeway you can find theselittle like they're like gummy cubes. It's
like, I don't know why thisis any different than like a gummy worm,
but it was definitely like, here'san immediate boost of energy, and
a couple times, in volleyball terms, you we're playing all day long,
I would I would take those andI'm like you know, I'm just gonna
go buy some fruit slices. It'stotally fine. So I noticed that a

(11:48):
lot of jacked guys and bodybuilders,especially guys that are on you know,
massive amounts of froids, love harribouthe German kind goomy bears because they have
dextros in them and high levels ofgelatine, and they're munching them throughout their
workout and after the workout and beforehand. Can you explain to the listeners like

(12:09):
why that would be something that youwant to try? Well, first caveat,
I, as a physical therapist,do not as part of my curriculum,
have nutrition training. So this isall speculative. I did just last
week play some tickle ball because I'mapproaching that age. There is a trainer
at my gym sitting next to meeating out of a hairbell bag, right,

(12:33):
And I was like, tell meabout this because I have such a
sweet tooth, Like are you tellingme that it's great for me to eat
gummies? Because I mean I will, I will devour that. And he's
like, yeah, he exactly that. He said, I like the destros,
and I also he's like, Iwill eat you know, a handful
of these before every workout. Itis about getting this the what I believe
is carbs that will quickly turn intoenergy that your body can use and then

(12:58):
you have a nyergy you to pushand the same thing works. Even like
if you know, we were talkingin my in my neuroscience class, our
instructor told us to grab a likea dumb dumb and eat it an exam.
Perfect, grab a hold of thatand then eat you said, eat
it during an exam because that shakaglucos to your brain will help you focus

(13:20):
better. You know, I triedthat approach. One of our favorite man
lets it jeff Nipper, Jeffrey Nipplesnippered and you know he there's this cute
screenshot that had a post of himsitting on the on a bench at the
gym drinking a box of juice likea three year old and he's a big

(13:43):
believer in the middle of your workout, just getting a you know, juicy
juice or something that has carbs init. Yeah, and just drinking and
actually does work. I had becauseat work, they buy a bunch of
shit for kids. Because my coworkersare all children. Tech companies love children

(14:03):
and a uh so they had abunch of things of what is that called
caprice sons and uh so I waslike, let me try some of this
and actually does work, you know, like it gives you that boost.
And then we were fought. Wewere sort of obsessed with this one guy
who looked like a vampire. Whatwere we calling him? Mark? The

(14:24):
guy with a banana l a fitnesshe's Rasputine. Yeah, he looked like
with a long period, a jackedup vampire from Russia. You know,
sounds very pale, and he's verypale, but he's he's got a phenomenal
body and that the like sometimes inthe middle or towards the end of his
workout, he pulls out a bananaand eats and we're just like, slowly,

(14:48):
slowly, don't rush it, don'trush it. And then fake fake
Halloween blood honor anything before. Andthen I saw this other muscle guy and
he asked him, was like,gee, mister, how do you get
so big? And he's like,well, sun carbulin with a K is
a popular. Basically, it's cyclicdextros with other stuff in it, and

(15:11):
it's about replenishing your the carbs thatyou lose when you work out. So
having that towards the end of yourworkout along with some way protein or some
quick acting. Yeah, protein canhelp replenish your body. H what do
you think about that? Didn't youalso say that carblin also reduces a cortizone
It does, actually, Yeah,because you release a lot of stress hormone

(15:31):
when you're working out, and sohaving stuff to replenish it can help it.
Yeah, go for it, allfor it. Your your brain needs
your brain needs carbs, Your brainneeds energy. Your body is energy.
You deplete that. Yeah, you'regonna, You're gonna slog. I played
competitive. I played volleyball in collegeand continue to play at least reasonably competitive

(15:54):
volleyball until my late thirties. AndI was playing. I was playing.
There's a semi protein here in town, and I was scummaging with them last
year and my buddy was like,Hey, just come play. It's going
to be a couple of matches.It was like six hours long. It
was way too long. I hadn'thad dinner, I wasn't planning in six
hours, and I remember getting sodepleted that I'm standing there on the court.
This guy's like bombing jump serves atme and he's like blurry, and

(16:17):
I'm like, I just need somethingmy body so I don't fall over here.
And that would have worked. Iwould have taken the bloody banana.
I would have taken the sugar cubes. I don't care. Give some give
some shot of energy into my brain. I am all on board it that
go for it. Now, whenyou're working out and building muscle, you're
releasing a lot of toxins into yourbody, lactic acid. And football players

(16:41):
have told me that their coach hasthem eating papaya and pineapple because they're high
in digestive enzymes. But as wellas specifically pineapple is bromolin and papaya has
pain in it, and that helpsto break apart the toxic chemicals that are

(17:02):
released by your body when you workout and helps your muscles recover from that.
I don't know if that works ornot. Are these are these antioxidants
that we're talking about? I have, they're they're uh well, pineapple and
balaya are both known to break downproteins, right, so there's something in

(17:23):
there that are able to digest helpyou digest those, yeah, And it's
basically bromolin and papain is an enzyme, so it breaks apart of meat and
it's used in culinary to tenderize meat. Like you can't put like pineapple or
papaya into jello. It'll just kindof liquidize and liquid unless you do it.

(17:45):
I think can pineapple you can dolater. I'm from Minnesota where it
was all bananas and oranges, sothat was never a problem. I would
say, like, you know,in the in the terms of like does
this make sense, I would putthis, you know, like ten,
definitely do it, and one it'snonsense. I would put this into like
a six or seven. As faras recovery, Yeah, yeah, go
for it, gopher. Also gofor your your infrareds and anti inflammatory ice

(18:08):
baths and static straps. These areall good. We'll get to those things.
So in the Mark and I arebig fans of going to like the
Asian and the Russian spas, whichare very different than the traditional spas.
And then they have like sort offar out stuff there, and there's you
know, saunas which all the youngpeople everybody swears by fifteen minutes after your

(18:30):
workout. Definitely do it a ten. Just sweating out toxins. Yeah yeah,
it's also yeah, but it's musclestoo, isn't it important for that?
And then there's you know, icebaths, which I'm also a ten
about it. If you can,if you's stomach, you can tolerate it
totally. Yeah. Yeah, youtake us in a multi day volleyball tournament

(18:52):
and those like first two nights.Yeah, ice bath for sure. Do
you really need an ice bath ifyou live in some place like Chicago when
it's cold aft here, I'm like, just walk outside, you'll be fine.
I think you have to do itnaked. So you first you have
to do it naked. Okay,we can arrange that, Jesse. Yeah,
so let's let's it's gonna Michigan haveJanuary. But you know it's like

(19:18):
Mark, you and I both havesort of thrown our backs and we find
that like a pack of ice onthe sprain muscle helps. You know.
That's rice rest, ice compression andright, And I'm gonna I'm going to
modify that one for you. I'mgonna change it from rice to price,
which the key is protected. Youhave an acute low back strain or something,

(19:41):
you need to protect it and notgo back to the gym the next
day and load it up again.But you're right, rice to elevate,
compress and rest, rest ice,compellive, compress and elevate, And when
you go see a physical therapist,you're definitely going to see the price.
That is correct. We haven't chokedaround here, but so on the on

(20:02):
the bottom of that lit So,so where does like And I noticed that
like either the Planet Fitness gym thatI go to is now offering infrared baths.
So it's the instead of getting likeUV rays to get ten, they
shower you. Now they have itin some planet fitnesses. Yeah, Mark's
all I was excited about, likelooking at that kind of stuff because they

(20:25):
do have like at the Korean Spotthey have something, but it just kind
of like shines on your face.And I don't know if I feel like
if it's doing very much and theythink they sing, you're puffy. No,
But so so the to be tobe serious here for a second here,
So what it is is red lighttherapy is a thing that people do
and instead of UV radiation, whichis on one end of the spectrum,

(20:48):
the infrared goes deep into the musclesand on your skin and it's supposed to
rejuvenate you. And I think inthe terms of one to ten, I
would put that out a two.Well, I don't know much about it.
Also, its supposed to be goodfor your collagen levels for your skin,
is supposed to even out your skintell and it's supposed to do a
lot of good stuff for you.And it's expensive though to buy, like
at home unit. And do youreally know if the course or not.
I mean I saw Paris Hilton usingone, and I think somebody did a

(21:11):
review and they're like, I thinkher things was like a few thousand dollars
or something like that. It waslike a face mask that she uses like
for fifteen minutes a day for youknow, and when you're a multimillionaire you
can afford something like that. Butis there any do you know of any
kind of technology that you can useat home? Oh, I've spent seeing
I've seen these things advertised and youhave to wonder about you know the intensity

(21:34):
of how or how it does itnot go as deep all these kinds of
things. With every one of those, you should be able to look up
the research on it, right,I mean, they may not be level
five randomized control trials with blind youknow blind studies where they go, yep,
we did this on a thousand peopleand gave these other people sham or

(21:55):
placebo treatments and these are the results. But you know, you look up,
you look up any like this,and yes, there will be some
level of evidence. It's how theyget put up to the public. So
make sure that they're safe and theyhave there's all sorts of kinds. There's
there's these red red wavelength there's whitelasers, and a lot of them.
In my work in PT clinics,when we use them, they will do

(22:15):
a combo of things like decrease inflammation, promote you know, capillary permeability,
to allow the cells that come andactually grow tissue so you heal better,
to get in the area, andthey're localized to the treatment areas and those
kinds of things, and in myworld that's what we use them for.
Some of them have an anti paincomponent, but usually it's an anti inflammatory

(22:36):
and a promotion of actually healing tissueand there's a level of evidence behind it.
I use them sometimes, not allthe time, but yeah, to
the right person. Do you usethem on yourself? I at home,
No, I at home. IfI need it, I use ice packs.
I believe in the body's natural abilityto heal. Like I also am
a person who have not had majorinjuries in my life. It's like eights

(22:57):
and pains. Because I'm active,I do a lot of needling. I
try. I needle myself all thetime, needling like like acupuncture. So
same needle, same needle, completelydifferent in all other regard. They don't
they don't have Yeah, they must, they must have kneeling. I know

(23:18):
it depends. I'm kind of heardof needling, but I'm not too familiar
with it. Oh yeah, youwant to be here and talk that sure?
So yeah. So when people ask, when I tell a patient I
want to try needle, the waWhen they go, what is that like
acupunction? I go, is so, No, I am not an acupunction
and not training acupuncture. And Iwould never even begin to talk about what
acupuncture does because I don't know anythingabout it really other than I a big

(23:41):
One of the big techniques, orthe way that that works, as my
understanding, is that they use distalmeaning ends of extremities, feet, hands,
parts away from the center of thebody. Distal points to affect things
in the center of the body.They use auricular points in the ears.
They use key meridians energy full pathwaysto affect cellular processes and things in the

(24:07):
body. I can't even talk moreabout it than that what I do as
a PT, and I think theonly only professions that can dry needle are
chiropractors and pts. I do believethat acupuncturists dry needle, but I don't
think they call it that. Theymay call it trigger point release, but
I'm not sure. I should juststay away from what they what they do.
But as a PT, who usesa needle, a filamentous needle,

(24:30):
which is you know, filamentous beingpen pen tip to it's blunt. It
doesn't cut you dry needling because there'sno fluid involved. This is not an
injection. You put this filamentous needleinto a knotted up muscle and everybody go.
Everybody has can relate to all like, got a not in my back
of my shoulder? Can you rubthat out? In my world, we
call that a trigger point. Itis where the muscle is held into like

(24:53):
a contracted state, and it sendspain singals to your brain. It releases
a neurotransmitter called substance p that thattells your brain that it hurts. Let's
say it's in your delt and youwant to do adult raise. Well,
that muscle is partly already contracted,so it can't contract again, so it
makes you weak, it can't produceforce. And then lastly, because it
can't stretch because it's held contracted,it makes you tight. So these knots

(25:15):
make it's painful. It makes youtight, it makes you weak, and
when you put a needle into it, it resets that muscle. It oftentimes
creates a twitch response, which isthe mechanims of how this huge cascade of
effects happen. But like right awaythe people go, Wow, that doesn't
hurt as much, I can movebetter. It just freezes people up.
And I've never come across a techniquethat's changed how I get treated or how

(25:37):
I treatment patients better than that.It's pretty incredible. So to find somebody
who is trained in this, youwould search for like a chiropractor who does
needling, or a physical therapist.So you're talking to a pet and I
love my cairos, but that's kindof a curse word in my world.
So where would you go about findingsomebody? You can find? You can

(26:00):
find a chiro that does it.You can find a pet that does it.
You know, if I was searchingfor a Peat clinic and I have
when I after I kid my backwent out two times because I'm bending over
lifting up twin babies all the time, and two times within the first year
of my kids being alive. Iwent to get pet and I called Peat
Clinics and I was like, Ineed somebody to dry needles and like in
my clinic. I also, youwork at uc Health, about half of
the therapist have have certifications in it, so you can find it. Just

(26:22):
got to ask, so you froma one to ten, one being nonsense
and ten definitely try it. Wherewould you put that in there? Oh?
Ten? I agree. The scaledoesn't go the scale does not go
above ten, so ten for sure. So are you just sticking the needle
in one? So you're doing ita bunch of times? And is it?
What's what's the actual action? Andso it's going in there and it's
fitting the money penetrating the skin thoughit's not penetrating the skin. Oh it

(26:45):
is. Yeah. No, ifI'm like, if I'm going in n
glute minimis right. So the gluteminimis the glute minimist sits on the side
of the hip, on the pelvis, so I use I mean, some
people will freak out about this,but you can't feel the needle move because
it's not cutting you. It slideswell and there, but they're they're biolubricated
and it so that those needles Iuse are ten centimeters long and they go

(27:10):
all the way in, but youcan't feel that. You only feel thickness
boys not length. And so it'shitting these muscles and it's breaking up the
fibers. Is that what's happening.No, no, no, it's not
breaking up at all. So Iwould easy like listen, we figure out
that one of these knots in yourmuscles is in your glute meatia on the

(27:32):
side of your hip. So Ipush on it, I pin it down,
and you go, yep, that'sthe place that like that reproduces my
pain, Like that's the problem muscle. So I pin it down. I
kind of hold it down with handsand you can feel it. It's like
a band of muscle that's hypertonic isthe word it use. It's firmer.
And you pin it down and youjust put the needle straight in the needle.

(27:52):
You can actually surprisingly move the needlearound a ton, and the patients
don't even know that you're doing itbecause again it's not cutting them. And
then it feels really heavy and crampyand you hit the right spot. What
happens when you the mechanism of thistwitch response that you're looking for is actually
when the needal physically bumps into theneuromuscular junction. So it's like the actual

(28:14):
physical place where the nerve that innervatesthe muscle connects to the muscle to contact
place and when it bumps that.You know, when I was in training
for this, they're like, wedon't actually know the mechanism of what makes
it twitch, but we absolutely knowthat this like all or nothing response.
Once we get the twitch, allof these things do happen, and there's
this a huge cascade of increase inblood flow that promotes healing, and this

(28:38):
changes substance p to decrease pain,and these you know, inner lukens come
that help with healing in cellular pathwaysand a reset of the biggest thing for
me that I think my patient wouldnotice that a way is a reset of
this motor unit where you guys arefamiliar with sarkameres not it's the base unit
of a muscle that contra and itresets those so that it can fire again.

(29:03):
Before it couldn't fire, Now itcan fire. So all those things
happen when the needle physically bumps intothe neuro musco junction in this nodded up
muscle and it just works like that. It's crazy. I've experienced this when
I've seen some massage therapists and theywere not good and I left the massage
with basically my back in traction andnot be able to move for a week

(29:26):
or two from a massage. Froma massage yeah wow, And it was
he was very He did not knowwhat he was doing and he made my
back problems really bad. What iswhat is your and so you know,
my approach to giving people advice interms of like recovery is I always want
people to try things on their ownfirst before they seek help in others.

(29:49):
Because sometimes you are your own bestdoctor in some regards. You know your
body, you live with your body, and understand the limitations in terms of
like assessing this. If this youknow therapists or doctor is going to be
good for you. What are somesilent things that they can look for.
Oh, from a PT standpoint,listen, this is what I tell people.

(30:12):
People go, oh, shall Icall you? Shall I call it
chiropractor? Or what you can findgood and bad? You can find good
massage service in bad. You canfind good pts and bad petees. What
I tell my patients they should lookfor in a rehab person, whether it's
maintenance or for an acute injury.You know, in my world, I'm
allowed to do hands on work andall the tools that we use, so
I can do joint manipulation and mobilization, soft tissue massage type work and use

(30:34):
tools like needles and scrape tools andall sorts of things. I want people
to get hands on care so thatthat you can get an immediate improvement in
how they move. The other thingis I want you to be educated.
I want the person that you're seeingto tell you what the thing is going
on and give you. Lastly,give you things that you can do on
your own to maintain change those thingsto me compromise good care. And that's

(30:59):
what it's able to get. Onething that you know, there's no shortage
of nonsense at Whole Foods, anyWhole Foods but specifically like the herbal supplements
section. And one thing that wewere big fans of was aroma therapy in
the nineties in terms of the scentreleasing changes in your body to relax you

(31:26):
more to you know, release hormonesin your body to help you heal.
Yeah, aroma therapy from one toten. Where are you at with that?
I think, go for it.My massage therapist who I love.
I love my massage therapist, andshe's like a distributor of of aroma therapies

(31:48):
and like whole hardly believes in it. Like she's given me things to rather
my children's feet to like help withI don't know all sorts of things.
The brand that she sells is calledDotera, and I I I endorse it.
I there is evidence about these things. And again you go through their
literature, there's evidence showing these arethe things that it does to your body,

(32:12):
very much like muscle relaxers. Imean, somebody goes, should I
take musclelaxers? I think fifty percentof the people say it works, half
it doesn't. Half it does samething with glucosamine for joints. Half people
go yeah, I like that andhave to go, yeah, Well,
in terms of glucosamine, So yeah, before you try glucosamine, try sissus
quadrala garis message me because I'm totallymispronouncing it. But cissus c I s

(32:37):
s us you can get It's it'sa basically an Indian herb and it works
more effectively at helping reduce inflammation inyour tissues than you know glucosamine does.
But the reason glucosamine works very wellis because it's rich in sulfur and so

(32:58):
and a lot of bodybuilding herbal supplementsMSN, which is basically sulfur that your
body can use and it tastes likehell. You can take that as a
supplement and that's I guess it's supposedto work. Interesting. I when when
I talk from my patients about glacossemineis usually for joint fluid because glucosamine is
in there for for viscosity and helpingyour cartlive slide. Well, it's the

(33:22):
same idea behind epsom salts and baths, right, So increasing the level of
sulfur in your body through absorption orby literally taking a you know, quarter
of a teaspoon of MSN or glucosamineor you know, all that kind of
stuff is basically increasing the sulfur inyour body, and that's why it's helping

(33:43):
with your joints and ligaments. It'son, But in terms of like cissis,
it comes from a different angle becauseit helps to reduce inflammation overall,
and it's a different mechanism than assay aspirin or you know, advil.
You know, sure, sure,I these all of these things. When

(34:05):
my patient's asking about it, I'mlike, yeah, try it. If
it's something that maybe should talk toyour doc about your innercnologists do that.
All those things earned in some waysoutside of my scope, And I would
say when people tell me, likepeople are like, oh yeah, I
swear by Tumerics, and people likeyes, I swear by ebbsence all bats
like good, go find your thing. It's totally fine. The key you
take away with turmeric is you gotto be careful because you may have a

(34:29):
mild allergy towards turmeric. So youknow, don't buy the like lifetime supply
bottle. Try something more modest andsee if you have a reaction, a
positive reaction in two weeks. Yeah, sure, go for it. I'm
on board. I'm on board.Go, so from one to ten,
you're like five right with the yeah, Like all those things to me are

(34:51):
like five yes, because probably halfthe people are like this is awesome,
and half the people are like todo anything well. You know, tim
work's an anti inflammatory, and inflammationis causes so many problems in the body.
Right, definitely, definitely yes.One thing that I definitely put a
zero or a one is a charcoalsupplementation. And so that was just something
that was all the rage and foodieswas black ice cream, black bagels with

(35:16):
activated charcoal, and the idea wasthat the charcoal binds with your body.
Basically that's the active ingredient in peptobismal, the pink stuff. The pink
stuff actually is hiding if they didn'thave the pink dye in pepto bismal,
you're drinking black goo to absorb whateveryou're not supposed to have eaten in your

(35:37):
stomach and heal your stomach. Andin terms of like a daily supplement of
charcoal, it's a definitely do notdo it well. It binds with vitaminst
defines with everything, yeah, goodand bad. So it's meant to be
like you know, last minute effortto try to deal with like food toxicity
or poison or you know, solike if you call poison control and the

(36:00):
ambulance comes and if if it's applicable, they will give you, you know,
pepto bismol or charcoal some kind.But that's not something you want to
be doing every single day. Doesn'tsound like it. In fact, I
believe they made black ice cream andfood charcoal and food, you know,
against FDA guidelines in places like NewYork City because of the fact that people

(36:23):
were so into it that they weregetting sick from eating black ice cream every
single day? Gross do you do? Do you do cupping? Is that
part of it? I do cupping. I do do comping. Absolutely.
I've heard some things like people arejust like, it doesn't really do anything,
and other people are saying, like, it does, it does do

(36:43):
stuff. Can you explain that tothe audience that doesn't know what cupping is?
Like? Absolutely, it doesn't.How you feel about it, yeah,
I would put cupping in the fascialrelease category and those that's one of
the three things when people are likeI'm feeling super tight and certainly if you
have an inflamed body part or anacute injury. After that inflammation goes away.
I always say the result of itwill be tightness. Muscles can get

(37:05):
tight, so stretch them. Jointscan get tight, so mobilize them and
need a professional to do that.Or the third thing that can be tight
and resetarched is fascia. Fascia issuperficial tissue under the skin. It wraps
around muscles and it binds to things. Our it bands are fascia and you
can't stretch that. It's unstretchable.But you could hang a fifty pounds side

(37:27):
of b from it in a freezerand it would never stretch. It doesn't
have elastic or contract ale tissue.It is thick, dense fascia, but
it binds to things. It bindsits on your quads, it sits in
your hamstrings. It has fibers thatgo to your glutes, and it arises
from one of your hip Lexer's TfLwhich is one of my favorite muscles because
it's called tensor fascial Lada. It'sa coffee muscle. You can go to
Starbucks and order eight non fat tensorfasci Latta Grande half wip cream anyway.

(37:53):
So, yes, so cupping releasesexplain if you don't know what cupping,
can you explain to people what cupis? Totally? Yeah, you you
you put a cup on and inEastern medicine it would be heap that draws
the tissue. In in our world, we use little suction cups with a
little suction pump and it draws theskin and the subcutaneous tissue and the fascia

(38:16):
and the muscle up into this cup. And so whereas like massage is compressive,
cupping is decompressive. It lifts,so it unweighs these layers of tissue
where maybe the collegron fibris have boundanother and then when you move it all
breaks it up in slides and glidesto help you be more mobile. Fascinating.
Yeah, I had cupping done onmy back and you know, I

(38:37):
don't know if it just leaves theseweird spots on your back and it's just
I don't know if there's good they'regood conversation starters, and really you know,
if it depends how long you doit and where you do it.
And I always have my patients movethrough functional movement patterns that are challenging for
them, Like if they're a volleyballplayer and I'm doing around the rotator cuff,
I'll be like, all right,we're gonna grab a thera band or

(38:59):
we're going to go through volleyball swingingmotion so that you loosen up in the
patterns that you move. You know. I used to work in San Diego
after grad school, and our clinicwas the official clinic for the Padres,
and some of those guys would comein and their off season, the job
was just stay healthy, and wewould put cups on them and they would
like work out for forty five minuteswith these cups on and just have these

(39:19):
black circles. But it's about freeingup their bodies so they're not restricted in
the movement patterns that they need.And I believe in it. That must
have been a hot job. Iwas not. I was not mad at
it. I have a friend hedid acupuncture for one of the local baseball
teams, and he's just like,yeah, it's really kind of fun.
Putting needles into a baseball player isa big, giant, muscular ass.

(39:43):
That's where those ten centimeter needles maynot be enough. You mean, you
may need to get deeper yes,you need several inches. One thing that's
free or you know, for twentyfive bucks you can go to Target or
Costco and buy a stick of foamfoam rolling or maya Fashion release yeah at
home, follow a free YouTube video, and I would say, like in

(40:07):
the things you should try if youhaven't tried yet, of what we're presenting
out here, this isn't the oneyou need to try right away now.
Jeff Nipper, did you know pulledtogether some studies about this, And I
said, you know, it's kindof neutral, like in terms of preparing
you for your workout, but I'ma big believer in doing it for myself

(40:30):
and I feel like, you know, especially if you're lifting right after a
long work day, it helps towake your body up and it helps relax
it enough to then you don't feellike you're in danger of hurting something when
you're lifting. Yeah, I wouldagree. I wouldn't maybe use the word
relaxing because you don't want to inhibitmuscles for you before you actually dose,
which is why static stretching is notgood. Dynamic warm up is good,

(40:52):
but form in increases blood flow andform rolling is a fascia technique, So
like thing. Full rolling breaks ofthe adhesions between layers of tissues so that
it helps with mobility. It isa good thing I think to do for
recovery. You can even you cando self trigger point release with it.
You find a sore muscle and youjust want to paint it down for a
minute, go ahead. You canhave some element of pain relief and relaxation

(41:15):
from that. But I totally endorse, endorse full rolling because of the things
that we give it to people aspts that would be undo the mobility category.
I want you to have ways tostay mobile, and fulm rolling is
great. Yeah. And you know, conversely with that, it's like I
noticed, like people who have youknow, back problems or it's usually tied
to like tight hamstrings or tight glutesor tennis elbow stuff or you know,

(41:40):
joint issues on their elbows. It'susually tied to uh, you know,
tight forms or biceps or triceps.And in terms of like, you know,
changing the way you lift. Onething that that everybody's ranting about this
week on the internet is doing onehundred repetition finishers. So at the end

(42:00):
of your arm workout, say youworked your biceps, throw in the lightest
weight possible one hundred reps and alot of you know, even the most
advanced athletes are not going to beable to get a hundred right away,
so try fifty and you know,and that just kind of gets blood a

(42:21):
really nice pump without putting any strainon your ligaments or joints. And I
would say it's a yeah, greatway to finish. Like my trainer does
this terrible thing on push days wherehe puts out four layers of plates on
different heights and I have to doseventy push ups as a finisher. Love
finishers. It's almost kind of likea drop set right, like you are
fatiguing this muscle after lifting heavy withlighter stuff and just like getting the last

(42:44):
bit of everything out. I wouldI would say from my world as a
PT, when it comes to softtissue injury, overuse, high rep stuff
does break down tissues. So yeah, one hundred reps of something might be
like wow, yeah, now Ihave tennis elbow. But you know,
as long as this doesn't become chronicand you're not sitting there with three months
of elbow pain, then you're notdoing anything bad. But yeah, no,

(43:07):
I go, I am I likefinishers, and I don't have any
I endorse them, Yes, finishersten ten pre workout naps. So and
this is something that I've observed alot of guys. Again, this is
for people who are lifting after theworkday is done. Is they go,

(43:27):
they're sleeping in their cars for fifteenminutes in front of the gym parking lot,
or they're you know, napping.And I've known some people who are
like getting ready for contests, they'renapping three or four times a day for
ten minutes. Interesting. I waslooking I looked this up really quick this
week, and what I what Iread was that about a twenty minute nap

(43:50):
is optimal. More than that canmake you sluggish. Less than that might
might not be full benefit. Whetherwhether that's some that I certainly can't fit
that in my schedule, but Iin no way what everythink that would hurt
you. And maybe you feel alittle bit more refresher when you go,
so you're mentally focused and you don'thave this this three pm slog. I

(44:13):
mean we should all move to Spainand Siesta. This would be amazing.
Yeah, I noticed that, likewhen you know, in Germany and Europe,
all the stores every retail environment isclosed for like an hour and after
Yeah, don't be here in theUnited States. But it's it's a weird
thing that like sleeping culture. Youknow, in terms of the quality of

(44:34):
our sleep, it is the numberone area of growth for most people.
For Americans are too oftentimes we workfar away from home, whereas Europeans might
live close to their place, soit's easier for them to go home have
that kind of lifestyle, that kindof thing. And then you know,
if you look at some place likeSpain, it's traditional because it's like it's
so hot, so you don't wantto work in the middle of the afternoon.
You want to be in a coolplace and people aren't going to be

(44:57):
wandering in the streets as much.And plus it's so you know, it's
better for your life. You know, it's not we're so capitalistic here and
it's all about consumption and making money, and if you slept, you wouldn't
be making money, right. Well, that's the thing is like a lot
of these Instagram hunks and bodybuilders,you look at their their like their lives
and either they're like independently wealthy.They don't have a job, you know,

(45:21):
like you know what is it?And to me, it's more fascinating
someone like High Green or even youknow, Ronnie Coleman who had very stressful,
full time jobs and still managed tobecome these mass monsters throughout their career.
Because if you pump yourself with steroidsand human growth hormone and eat a
lot of food, you still maynot get to that size and that progress.

(45:45):
And so there is a you know, when you're talking about bodybuilding,
there is this like athletic quality toit because you can put all the chemicals
you wanted in your body and doeverything the same way the pros are and
you might not get the same results, or it could could there could be
the genetic metabolitic you know thing thatyeah, yeah, and that I mean

(46:07):
the discipline. The discipline is everything. You know, if this is this
is your number one priority and you'remaking that fit in your full time job
and out, yeah, it's it'sreally impressively impressive. I hate using the
words terms like discipline or genetics becauseit's like in terms of like you know,
assessing the reaction from people who arestruggling, it sort of like discourages

(46:28):
and demoralizes them. They're like,well, I don't have the genetics of
so and so I don't have thelifestyle the luxury to do this, and
therefore I'm going to give up orthat's I'm not getting the results. And
ultimately, you know, and youand I are big proponents about this,
and and I've learned the hard wayis tracking your sleep, tracking your food,

(46:49):
and tracking your workouts is the asiron Curtis. Iron Curtis says,
it's the power of the plus one. It's it's it's microscopic progress that compounds
over time to create huge results.If you can learn anything from bodybuilding,
it is the tiny, little,any bitty steps that add to something really

(47:13):
big at the end, totally onehundred percent agreed. Absolutely, What are
your macros? By the way,Well, okay, so my split should
be should be like, I shootfor somewhere around fifty percent carbs and twenty
five percent protein and twenty percent patswith a goal of my body weight per

(47:35):
day in protein, which is somewhereover two hundred, like two to twenty
and I should be eating somewhere aroundthirty five hundred calories a day. And
that's what my goal is. Thatso it doesn't happen. I am a
father of four year old twins,so day to day is a little wild,
but that that's what I shoot for. And I'm telling you when I

(47:57):
started tracking macros, which you know, I began this gaining size journey,
you know, three four years ago, and I plateaued at like two or
eight pounds, which was up eighteenpounds from where I started. And I
was not tracking my food, andI'm talking to buddies of the gym and
I'm just like, I'm not doingit. I'm not doing it. I
don't have time to do that.And I finally got sick of doing my

(48:20):
plateau and I started tracking it andit just popped me right out of it.
So I know it was what Iwas eating and I wasn't taking enough
carbs. So that's my split asa as a ectomorphic. I'm classically a
tall, lanky, skinny white boyfrom Minnesota, and the metabolism needs the
carbs. So yeah, a fiftypercent carbs is a big deal for me.
I don't know, you know,when you're having a lot of carbs
in your die, that's a lotof fun for me. It's like and

(48:45):
you know, in terms of likethere's there's a concept of bulking and cutting,
which people understand, but recomping isa little bit more foggy, and
even you know, some people believerecomping is like sasquatch or bigfoot. It
doesn't really exist, okay, butI'm in the process of doing that.
And so recomping is psychologically really confusingbecause your body weight stays the same and

(49:09):
you're essentially trying to change the compositionof your body from lowering the fat and
increasing the muscle. And I don'tknow if I'm still on the as somebody
who's been recamping for now half ayear, I'm still on the fence of
I mean, I've seen the change, but I still think it's probably in

(49:30):
the big picture easier just to bulkor cut. Did you so, how
did your macro split change when youdecided to recomp Well, we were,
you know, I realized that throughoutmy course of my life, no matter
what I did, it's like,I'm just not eating enough protein. And
right now my protein daily goal isfor somebody who's one hundred and ninety two
pounds who used to be two twentyjust a year ago. People are like,

(49:54):
you're you know, ironically, likeI look more muscular, but I'm
much much smaller person. And myhusband, who hugs me every single day,
is like, you're just smaller,you know. But it's two sixty
five is the goal of grams ofprotein a day? Yeah, And I
tell you some days you get itand you and you get it easily.

(50:17):
And then like last night, IMark made this beautiful grilled chicken thighs and
they might as well been poison.I was like struggling to get them down,
put it in a blender and drankit. We have those days.
It's okay that we have those days. Yeah. My trainer is I've been
I've been accidentally losing a few poundslately, and he's like, you should

(50:42):
just turn it into a cut andhave some abs for the summer. And
I was like, I don't wantto do there. But we talked about
what it would take and it wasit was like, yeah, we're going
to decrease your carbs and increase yourprotein. We're like, you're gonna eat
the same a same caloric but we'rejust gonna switch the macros a bit.
And so I think what you're talkingabout makes total sense. Well, the
thing about it is like, youknow, Mark and I are going to
be going to the Arnold Bodybuilding andFitness Expo first weekend in March in Columbus,

(51:08):
Ohio, and we already have likeour our first hookup or date with
Carter Kissick. Classic you to sendme photos. You know, he's he's
running a booth, so he can'trun away from us. He's trapped.
He's trapped at his dumbbell booth.And and so you know, part of

(51:31):
it is like last time we werethere, we were interviewing Thomas Terry.
And Thomas Terry is you know,one of the most famous bodybuilder muscle worship
people on the internet, and hehas these gorgeous monstrous buy some he lives
by you in Colorado. Yeah,and you also need to send me photos.
Well, he game of swols onInstagram and I'm interviewing him, and

(51:54):
you know, he's just flexing hisguns and I'm just kind of like I'm
so tiny and little, you know, And so part of it is like
you know, when there is ayou know, a gay pride parade,
a leather conference or bodybuilding you know, some kind of event you're going on
a cruise ship, it's really temptingto sort of like sabotage your long term

(52:14):
training, your goals, Yes,to try to get into the most ideal
condition for that weekend. Totally,you know what I call that, Like,
let's say I'm going to Let's sayI'm going to Vegas, Like I
have one week to get into getVegas body, and then when that happens,
I'm like, this currently is Vegasbody. It may maybe good,

(52:35):
it may be bad, but thisis Vegas body, just the state that
it is now. No, Itotally hear what you're saying. That you
break, Yeah, you might breakyour long term goal plans because oh I
got to do this for this event. I hear what you're saying, and
I don't think you should beat yourselfup over that because you're right. Long
term goal, Like what you weresaying earlier, long term goal is step
by step. You're not It's notgoing to be linear. It's okay that
it goes up and down, butyou want to see overall progress. It

(52:59):
just won't be linear. Life istoo life is too complicated. I'm a
big fan of flexing, and youknow, even like those free YouTube videos
of guys like teaching you how todo bodybuilding poses. Even if you're not
doing a workout, just the actof flexing your muscles can do all kinds
of really cool things. Can youtalk about that, well, I would
say so, and I heard you. I heard you talk about this in

(53:20):
a different podcast. Then I don'tlike. Sure. I maybe it's very
very likely that it will give youmore of a pump and get blood flow.
Going from an actual building size andbuilding strength that that stays. I
mean, you're doing isometrics, andisometrics are the lowest level of strengthening,
Like we give isometrics to somebody sixweeks out of a rotator cuff surgery because

(53:43):
it's the only thing that muscles cantolerate because it's very gentle. So it
doesn't if you are strong and cando isotonics where you're you know, doing
up and down bicubcurls, an isometricbicep curl is a less effective version of
strengthening than that for all gains.Will it increase blood flow, give you
a little pump, Sure, ButI don't think it's going to make you

(54:06):
stronger necessarily. Well, part ofit is, you know, a lot
of this is in terms of recovery, right, it's about keeping the muscle
healthy and relaxed and not putting alot of stress. You know, it's
like we work so hard, we'reso stressed out, and sometimes people feel
like, well, if I don'twork out today at all, that's going
to be the solution. But youknow, you can always walk, and

(54:29):
a lot of these pro bodybuilders they'rewalking forty five minutes at a very slow
pace on a treadmill. There's thisone price. There's this one Christian bodybuilder.
His name is Lashan is a redheadwho used to and I saw him
going from he looked like just abig guy to just jacked up, contest

(54:52):
ready bodybuilder in a month. Everytime I saw him, he was walking
on a sliding climb in the treadmillat Planet Fitness for an hour and a
half. Calories to he's bringing caloriesto cut, right, he was.
It's about you know, walking doesIt's it's magic in some ways because you

(55:15):
know you can do card you cando cardio, which stresses your body out,
but walking doesn't stress your body outthe way cardio does, and so
beat up your tissues. Right,it's not gonna it's not gonna have a
breakdown that that impact would have forsure. And you know, like everybody
with a smart watch, I saythat the most important thing on your smart

(55:37):
watch is the steps you've done thatday. A pedometer or anything that tracks
the number of steps you take isand you can get really cheap pedometers that
you can wear every single day onAmazon or best Buy or whatever, or
the more expensive ones. But thosesmart watches can be really powerful in giving

(55:57):
us an insight into why we lookthe way we do, in understanding the
stress that the body goes through totally. And I would even put that in
under the category of like for somebodywho isn't in shape and doesn't have that
bodybuilding goal, that every movement countsand they all add up. I have
a volleyball teammate who's a good personalfriend who works for University of Colorado during

(56:20):
research, and one of her researchright now that she's trying to get through
is to actually change them change theideology from the ada of that everybody should
do moderate intensity exercise for thirty minutesthree to five times a day because people
don't don't know what that means andthey think that it needs to hurt or
should run on a treadmill when she'swhen her her conclusion is it does not

(56:45):
matter what you do from a movement. Every movement counts and your right.
It all adds up. So that'sslow walking on an uphill treadmill. That
all adds up to health. Prisethe Lord Lashawn, I know, he
just wants you to be swole.He's a real character. Is like,
you know, he loves his religionand he loves building muscle, and he's

(57:09):
huge, and I'm just standing therelike, you know, dazzled by his
beauty, you know, and he'slike, you know, he looks like
he one of those you know,mass monsters who has a giant hoodie.
And he's just like spewing all hiskind of like bodybuilding techniques and his religion

(57:30):
intermingled with it, and it's kindof hilarious. You know, let him
go for it. I do believeJesus wants you to be swollen, Yes,
absolutely, you know. And Ithink probably the most overlooked thing that
people don't consider is love as arecovery. Oh. I like that oxytocin

(57:51):
is the love drug. And whenwe think about like recovery and oxytocin and
all that stuff, like people think, well, sex or self pleasure master
debating. But there's a lot ofstudies that just without touching somebody, helping
somebody else and you know, explainingsomething difficult or complicated to somebody who doesn't

(58:12):
understand and them and changing the waythey see the world or help, you
know, helping somebody else like misterRogers does, right, can actually release
enough oxytocin in your body to thepoint that you start getting addicted, just
like the runners high to helping others. Well, I'm telling you this is
probably one reason why I like workbeing a physical therapist because I see that

(58:34):
every day where people are just likeI mean, you get somebody who has
no idea about exercise or has neverdone anything healthy, and you're like,
hey, you should do this onesimple thing, and they come back to
you and they're like, oh mygod, thank you. I did not
know. And you feel that.I totally feel the love. Absolutely,
it's awesome. Well, you havetwo kids I do, yes, who
are also the love of my life. They're amazing. And you're in the

(58:57):
process of separating from your husband.I am, yes, So you have
both like lots of love and lotsof anger. There is very little anger,
no anger no anger. So it'san amicable separation, yes, yes,
yeah it's and that's the goal isto cull parent and be with our
kids together and all things important.Yeah yeah. And in terms of like

(59:20):
you know, you know, forus, like Mark and I, probably
the most important time of the dayin our relationship and are just arrest is
the fifteen minutes week before we goto bed where we're just like holding each
other, you know, totally,And you know right now, I get
that with my kids every single night. They fight over who gets to put
them to bed every night. Butthat moment of sitting in the chair where

(59:42):
this kid is just like holding ontoyou and kissing you and telling you how
much they love you, it iseverything, Like, oh my god,
it it makes me hurt how muchI love them. I also enjoy independence,
and I love them more when I'vebeen away from them for two hours
and then I get to beat withthem for two hours. But no,
dude, it is the best.It's absolutely the best to have these kids
love you and you, Yeah,you feel that. It's amazing. And

(01:00:05):
I'm like thinking about you know,people who are sort of like isolated out
there, who are trying struggling tobuild muscle or you know, it's like
it doesn't have to be sexual tohave oxytocin re released. Like find a
way that you can. And thisis what we've been with people both both
traumatic stress disorders or any kind ofsituation. It's like volunteering and helping somebody

(01:00:28):
else, teaching somebody else how tolift, how to build muscle, even
over as a phone call, evenlike us doing this podcast, we get
a hormonal release understanding that hopefully theinformation we're presenting to you guys out there
is going to improve your lives andimprove your health or improve the way you
like to look at yourself. Well, we had a guest on the podcast

(01:00:52):
before and his husband had aides andhis doctor put him on injectable oxytocin,
and he said that it was likea game changer from him. It really
helped him heal and recover from fromthe physical ailments he was having. But
that's like a sort of like insulin. It's that's that's the last course of
a it is It isn't life betterliving through chemistry. I mean, if

(01:01:12):
you're if you're if you're shooting uptestosterone or HGS, HGB or whatever,
you know, why not ah GB. I was actually looking that live because
I'm like, oh, let's youknow, I don't know how you would
get that prescribed or where you mightfind that. So if anybody out there
has any information on that, I'dlove to know. Well, that's a
lot doing it. I think doingit naturally through sex is probably the best
way. I mean, work onthat. I know, let's just do

(01:01:36):
more that doctor Jesse like in termsof like your sexual awakening and you know,
you're you're, you know, buildingall this muscle. You're telling me
it's sort of like that it's hada positive change in your sexual life.
Yeah, absolutely, you know II think they kind of go hand in
hand, both working out in thegym and in kind of changing my body

(01:02:00):
to where I want it to be. I was raised very conservatively in rural
Minnesota and a ton of three hundredpeople, with very little exposure to culture,
and certainly anybody who is homosexual,very very alone feeling for many many
many years and pretty pretty sex negativeculture. Like the messages I always had

(01:02:24):
around that we were affected me alot and that you know, this this
overall feeling of you know, whatwho you are isn't okay, right,
and I'm certainly not alone with that. Many people can identify with that.
But kind of had a moment fiveyears ago with my family that made me
realize, Wow, this is reallyaffecting me and it doesn't have to affect

(01:02:45):
me and I in that moment itkind of all got let go. And
it's changed who I am in alot of ways of just accepting myself as
a gay man and accepting the factthat I really do believe my sexuality is
a very large part of who Iam, and that is that has helped

(01:03:05):
with motivation in changing my body physically, but it's also just resulted in feelings
of authenticity like I've never had beforein combo with my therapist, who is
the best person on earth. AndI endorse everybody getting there because it's pretty
incredible to be authentic. Are youkind of like sexual therapist or like a
psychological therapist? So both he is, but the therapist that I have is

(01:03:29):
a he's an LGBTQ affirming. Yeah, he's a sex therapist. He's not
having sex with you. Oh no, no, no, no no no
no, no, definitely not.No, that's interesting. We should look
into how that happens or who cando that with but as my understanding,
as you would lose your ability topractice, well, you can be a
life sex you can be a licensedsex therapist. That is a thing.

(01:03:51):
But also like therapists do help youwith your sex life, and so you
might be able to say, hey, they're a sex therapist, but they're
a therapist who helps you with yoursex. They're not a sex there Well,
so a sex therapist is somebody whotalks about your set, no actually
having sex with you. Sex therapistis somebody who will engage in some kind
of sexual situations with you in orderto like yeah, yeah, of course,

(01:04:13):
people who are like you know,quadriplegics or something like that, they
have they sex therapist. If there'ssomebody who can't it doesn't is afraid to
have intimacy, there are and there'slike sometimes I think there's like a number
of times they can have sex legallyor something like that. It's kind of
complixing. Yeah, I mean there'sno definitely not who my therapist is.

(01:04:34):
Now you're seeing a therapist who youtalk to about sex. It is it
is, I understand that. Butin terms of the like you would lose
your license if you as a therapistif you start having sex with their clients.
Probably, Yeah, I believe thatwould be against your conduct, and
I think it's very unethical if you'rein a power dynamic like that. Of

(01:04:57):
course, that's why it's like that. What about sexual compulsion as agains goblin
holding you back? You know,somebody who comes from a very conservative background
who sort of like discovered aspects oftheir lives and had a sexual reawakening.
How do you how do you likeaddress that when you hear people talking about,
like, you know, hooking upfor sex with somebody that haven't met

(01:05:20):
yet on the internet as a formof coping or therapy. You know,
I don't even give maybe a littleout of my scope as far as like
I've never in clinic ever had thatdiscussion with somebody, as far as like,
hey, we're recovering from the injury, I think you should get laid.
But I mean, if we're talkingabout my personal opinions on that,

(01:05:45):
my my personal walls on sexual libertyand preferences and seeking pleasure because pleasure feels
good have vastly changed over the pastfew years. And if men that is
something that you use to give yourselfa stress relief. Then I think you
need to do some self care.Mmmmm, well, because you feel like

(01:06:10):
that some people gets compulsive sexually,and so that becomes kind of not therapeutic.
And so because you know, I'venoticed this that sometimes people do spend
a lot of time searching for sexand not actually having sex. Sure,
and maybe for them that's the thrillof a hunt and that's what they need

(01:06:30):
to satisfy some curiosity or just havethe energy of talking with people in a
way that brings them some sense ofsexuality that they're creating. You know,
I think I think to me,the definition of where it becomes you're problematic

(01:06:51):
is when it gets in the wayof you doing the things they need to
do to get through your life.They're doing that to satisfy some amount of
just sexual energy that they need.But I would say it might become problematic
if it gets in the way ofaccomplishing tasks that they need to get through
to get to, you know,be a functioning human, a functioning citizen

(01:07:12):
in society. Like if you're ifyou missable going to work because you're scrolling
a grinder, and you know,that's what happens when you lose a job.
Well, maybe it's a problem,but I don't know it's I don't
I don't see a problem with somebodyexploit their sexuality in spending time doing that
if that's something that they need tobe fel fulfilled, because I noticed that,
you know, especially a lot ofbodybuilders, when they first turn to

(01:07:35):
anabolic steroids and performance enhancing drugs,they get horny and they're they're like,
you know, at least the onesthat I've talked to, they're telling me
that they're like spending a lot oftime on the hookup apps and not in
the gym or eating or sleeping,and then that's getting in the way of

(01:07:57):
their growth. Yeah. One guythat I follow I love. He has
these posts and he likes to say, don't skip the gym for your f
buddy. I'm like, that isa good model to live your life by.
Yeah. I always tell people islike, do not sacrifice working out
or eating right or sleeping right justto get laid. Like, you're at
the gym, you're working out andguys making eyes at you. You're halfway
through your workout. He's like,Hey, meet me in the locker room,

(01:08:17):
and you're just kind of like,do you go to locker room or
do you finish your workout? No, you finish your workout. Listen to
doctor Jesse. Finish your workout.Finish your workout, Doctor Jesse. Congratulations
on your transformation. Thank you,appreciate it. It's been it's been really
awesome. And congratulations on helping allthese other people, you know, building
muscle and recovering and living their bestpossible lives. Thank you. It's fulfilling

(01:08:43):
and I enjoy it very much.And uh, thank you so much for
talking us today. I know you'rekind of like talking to us in between
clients, so I appreciate that.Yeah, thank you guys very much for
having me. It's been a pleasureand it's been very very fun. I
hope. I hope what were havingwas fun and helpful. I hope so
too. I think it was.Yeah, and we'll follow up later.

(01:09:05):
Okay, thank you guys so much. Good rest of your day, Take
care of Jesse Jesse, Doctor Jesse, doctor Jesse, r dp dtfuh.
Yeah, lives in Doctor Jesse livesin Denver, Colorado, and you can
follow him on Instagram at doctor Jessewith it's not spelled with an i E.

(01:09:25):
It's doctor j E. S sE D p T giggle and of
course it's Colorado Performance p T forpersonal Therapists Physical therapists, sorry dot com
and so you can see sexy photosof doctor Jesse as well. We didn't
get to talk about a lot ofother funny, hilarious things. You know,

(01:09:46):
shake weights. Those are ridiculous.You know, they used to sell
those on television and they're basically dumbbellswhere the weights move around like a Morocco
or something. And so of courseit's literally the act of masturbating in the
air. And there was a hilariousSouth Park episode where they built a shake
weight so it ejaculates to tell youthat it's done. Yeah, my god,

(01:10:10):
that's funny. Did you ever orderSuzanne Summer's thigh Master or ever play
with one of those? I thinkI've used one, Yes, What was
that experience? Like? So,what is that exactly? It's a it's
a piece of foam on a springand you're basically tightening, You're working your
inner thighs. It's the vagile liftwe call it. It is a hip

(01:10:32):
thrust where you're thrusting or making abridge lift. Is this thing? Yeah?
So snapping back and forth. That'swhat we've always called that machine that
you sit down on and it goesbetween your legs and you open it up
and close. It is abductor andadduct Yes, so it's that kind of
motion, right, Yeah, Sothe abductor for the leg machines is basically

(01:10:55):
a weighted version of Suzanne Summer's THIMaster. And you know, they sold
it on television that you could dolike bicep curls by putting one side of
the pad on your chest and doingcurls with it. Oh wow. And
you know, and Suzanne Summers isacting like that's all she did exercise wise,
and that's why she looks so great. Later on, Suzanne Summers came
out as a trumper as a rightwinger, but in the early days of

(01:11:19):
the podcast and around two thousand andfive two thousand and six, she was
on famous on the internet for hormonereplacement therapy and advocating that women would go
to clinics to get their estrogen andthe tristosterone replaced as the diminsion is over
time and you know, in termsof like rejuvenation and recovery, it's not

(01:11:39):
a bad thing to look into.And if you have a lot of money.
You know, human growth hormone replacementtherapy and even stem cell therapy has
both been very well documented and provento be great at recovery. And of
course there's you know, peptide therapythat's just like breaking you know, it's

(01:12:01):
up to the minute kind of experimentalstuff and I've actually done it and it
did help a little bit, butit is no substitute for sleeping, walking
exercises. Are you done with yourtherapy for that? Yeah, And it
definitely helped me overcome this chronic issueI had with you know, I still
have issues with my knees and elbows. It's not gotten rid of it,

(01:12:25):
but it's definitely alleviated it a lotmore. That allowed me to now continue
making progress towards a goal, whichis a contest, you know. So
for me, it's like peptide.Doing peptide therapy was something I would recommend,
but it is not like in termsof the cost versus the benefit,
you know, I put it likeon a six or a seven and not

(01:12:45):
a ten, whereas I would sayhormone replacement therapy, especially if you're over
forty, it is something that wouldput definitely out of ten and it changed
everybody's lives for the better. Butit's something you definitely want to work with
a doctor, and a lot ofyou know, it's really hard sometimes to
find a good doctor that can helpguide you and get you there, you
know, And a lot of peoplego to the doctor and their hormone levels

(01:13:11):
in the past used to be fivehundred to one thousand. Now it's like
two hundred to four hundred of testosteroneand their blood And I'm just kind of
like, you know, just becausethe average has gone down does not mean
that the average is a good placeto be. And that's a result of
the stress that we live in ourenvironment, the fact that we're more we're

(01:13:32):
not moving as much, we're heavier, we're heavier, we're not eating the
right foods, we're not sleeping asmuch. You know, capitalism is ultimately
the games goblin that that should shouldn'tbe and I think that's something to consider,
and you know, in terms oflike finding a good doctor. I

(01:13:53):
actually consult with our listeners for anhour at ninety nine dollars. We talk
one on one and look at whatyou've been doing, what are you been
training at We look at your bodyand sort of you know, make a
set you on the right direction.So if you're thinking about hiring a physical
therapist or a doctor, or atrainer or a coach, and you know,

(01:14:16):
it's good idea to talk to mefor an hour because it's only ninety
nine dollars and we can sort oflook at what you know and what kind
of person to get and where togo find them, and how to get
the right kind of blood work ifyou are going to do hormone replacement therapy
or do a steroid cycle, likeall those things are important to talk to
somebody like me, and if notme, find somebody that you trust that

(01:14:41):
you can talk to and get theright information, because that's because that's really
important. Much like you know,people would are making so much gains now
because there is information out there,but it's hard to sort through it and
pastors really even hard to just findsome of that information. And you've been
at this for a long long time, yeah, researching so much of it.
So I hope people can learn fromwhat from your knowledge. Yeah,

(01:15:01):
So just message me on Instagram FaustaFernos or Mark Feelian and just say hey,
let's grow big together. That's asecret code word for that you want,
you know, your listener of theshow, and of course, outside
of the show, I charge alot more. This is like a sale
for people who are listeners of theshow and outside I'm three point fifty for
an hour of consultation. So whathave you ever done like the vibrating platform

(01:15:27):
therapy where you stood on a ona on a platform and it I have.
They used to have one at thisgym and you can kind of you
could vibrate as it's in stretch atthe same time. And I enjoyed it,
but it also kind of like Ithink, I feel like it made
my nose tickle, it made itmade all this the stuff in your sinus's
drip. I liked it a lot. And you know, one of the

(01:15:49):
gyms we go to export here inChicago, they actually have one of those
platforms. Yeah, I haven't seenit, but it's like kind of hiding
like they're using as a as aas a rack. Yeah, I coat
rack because people don't know how touse it, and when they get on
it, it's so distressful that there'sjust kind of like freaked down the jump
off of it, like I useit on a hot tin roof, you

(01:16:09):
know, and of course a hotyoga, any kind of yoga is great,
and dance therapy. Just move amovement, right, You got to
lubricate those joints. How many stepsa day do you get? Usually over
ten thousand, usually about twelve tofourteen thousand. And when I'm working like
this past weekend on a Saturday,you know, took the dog out for
a walk, went to work,was on my feet for thirteen hours.

(01:16:32):
I think I was at about thirtythree thousand steps. That's amazing, which
is pretty good, I think,right, yeah, and shows in your
body. I mean, you're doyou mind telling the listeners how old you
are and stuff? For Yeah,I mean I just turned fifty six,
Happy birthday, Thank you. Iappreciate that. Fifty six years old,
and you look down a good grinder. I'm only like forty four, I

(01:16:53):
think. But you know, andpart of the reason I'll be honest,
part of the reason I do thatover if I'm not sure, sometimes I
don't list my age on it,or sometimes I list it much younger,
is just because like if I putmy actual age on there, then everything
is you look so great for fiftysix, You look so great for fifty
six, I hope I can looklike you when I'm fitt and so it
all becomes about my age rather thanjust the way I look. You know,

(01:17:15):
it's a very Joan Collins reaction,and they go, you look great,
and I'm like, you are correct, and so I just you know,
the other thing about it, too, is like when I put you
know, if I put my realage, then these people who are like
forty, who look like they're likeready for retirement, then they get mad
too, and so it's just kindof like I just want to like even
out. I just you just don'twant to have that conversation at that point.

(01:17:38):
At that point in time, it'sjust, you know, I'd rather
just talk about other things rather thanfocusing on the age. But you know,
somebody asked, They're like, howold are you, and I just
usually just say I learned a longtime ago that age is just a little
number you sometimes have to lie about. Whether it's getting into a bar at
the age of seventeen or fifteen,or if you're want to go to that

(01:18:00):
group meeting and they're like nobody overthe age of fifty, You're like,
well, I'm forty four. Yeah, yeah, and I can probably pass
for that. I would think.Remember, folks, let's grow big together.
Is made possible because of fierce legendslike you go to feasafun dot com
slash plus and access thousands of amazingpodcasts without any commercial interruption. It's just

(01:18:24):
for a couple bucks a month,you can access our shows. You can
also go to Patreon if you're onPatreon at patreon dot com slash Festa Fun
and of course hire me as aconsultant or make a one time donation at
fisafun dot com slash donate. Andalso you can visit our store at feastafun
dot com slash store and get itto yourself some fabulous T shirts. All

(01:18:45):
those sales, everything that we dohere, all that money goes to making
this podcast and Feast of Fun happen. And we couldn't do it without your
support. And of course we're gonnabe at the Arnold Expo first weekend in
March hanging around, uh, chattingwith folks. If your show come say
hi, I don't buy it?Will do something on camera? Yeah,

(01:19:09):
we could. We can collaborate tocollaborate on the floor at the convention.
I got to tell you. Youknow, it's it's it's surrounded by what
are we going to see Arnold?We're gonna try He's gonna he says he's
going to be there. He usuallytries to show up. He goes,
Hey, fouls do I like yourshow very much, but your impersonation of
me is terrible. Because he goesto Columbus because I guess the guy who

(01:19:31):
one of his first trainers is fromthat area, and that's where they decided
to do that exponent. Yeah,but they also have one in Europe too,
I think as well. Right,well, the Columbus Expo Africa has
a lot of athletes, and Imean just that general region Columbus because of
the universities. Yeah, and insports and what is it that the La
Fitness just outside of Cleveland it's nolonger in LA Fitness or what they and

(01:19:57):
a sport? Yeah, because II'm from Erie, Pennsylvania. So when
I would drive home from Chicago toErie to see a family, were like,
what kind of gym can we stopon the way to break up this,
you know, seven hour car ride, and I'd stop in Lakewood,
I believe it is. And that'sjust outside of Cleveland and La fitness now
I sport. I was just Iwalked into the gym I'm working out.

(01:20:18):
I'm like, there are so manyguys here who are just jacked and built.
I mean, I'm like talking thirtyor forty of them, you know,
and it just seemed kind of likewild. I'm like, there's so
many. I mean, usually youdo seem really fit people at the gym,
but you know, a handful mosteveryone are you know, it's just
everyday kind of people getting in theirfitness on, doing their kind of thing.

(01:20:39):
But these guys are all jacked andmuscular and stunning models, and I
just would go home with any ofthem. So I was asking around and
they're just like, oh, thesports teams here in chicag or in Cleveland,
the Browns are they practice nearby.So I think a lot of these
people are people who work for them, so they're very athletic. Mine.

(01:21:00):
I mean, I love being around, you know, hundreds of gorgeous muscular
men without their shirts on, butusually it's with lots of drugs, poppers
and loud music. In this circumstance, they're actually lifting and exercising, and
it really is dazzling to see,like you know, a two hundred and
fifty pound bodybuilder flip over and startwalking on their hands, which I saw

(01:21:26):
Mark and I saw this like fiftyfeet and he's, you know, instead
of jogging with his feet, he'slike like some kind of alien monkey or
something. He's walking on his handsand doing laps around the track, and
I'm just like, damn, ishe like with Cirque Desolet or something.
I mean, it was extraordinary towatch, and to me, it's like

(01:21:46):
we've been to the Mecca. We'vebeen to Gold's Gym and Venice Beach and
that's an extraordinary experience because you know, you've seen it in the film Pumping
Iron, and then you're going inthere and you're seeing, oh my god,
there's that guy from Instagram, andoh my god, there's that famous
bodybuilder and I have no idea whattheir name is, but I'm masturbated.

(01:22:08):
A lot of the can work outoutside in the sunshine. Yeah, it's
so weird. I grew up inPuerto Rico and San Juan and going to
the gyms out in you know,with the open air breeze or the nature
and sunshine and stuff like that.And if you've never had that experience.
It's something definitely worth trying out to, you know, just changing the pace.
And you know, that's why alot of these professional athletes, they

(01:22:30):
have gym memberships to multiple places,or their employer, you know, has
the option to giving them access tomultiple gyms. And so just changing the
venue and changing the place, canyou know, free your mind, make
things fun and make it exciting andmake your life a lot better and ultimately,

(01:22:50):
you know, that's that's all we'rehere for, is to connect with
each other. Love is the relationshipsthat we have with each other, and
that's why I love is the submitway to build muscle is just to hold
somebody tightly and tell them how muchthey mean to So do that to your
lifting partner next time, you guyswill working together. Just be like this

(01:23:11):
love that we have between us iswhat's really making our muscles. Yeah,
Carter, I love you, DoctorJesse, hold me, hold me John,
everybody, by everyone,

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Outrageous Ways Bodybuilders Overcome Injury - Dr. Jesse Roles

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Outrageous Ways Bodybuilders Overcome Injury - Dr. Jesse Roles