January 23, 2025 • 56 mins
#Broncos #BroncosCountry #NFL #DenverBroncos #BoNix #TeeHiggins On today's show, the LTB crew provides an offseason overview looking at the Denver Broncos' biggest offseason needs and what they can do to address them. SUBSCRIBE TO LET’S TALK BUFFS: / @lets-talk-buffs Check out the website: https://letstalkbroncos.com/ Altitude Adjustment Shop: https://altitudeadjustmentshop.com/ Catch the Let's Talk Broncos Podcast Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays on the Let's Talk Broncos YouTube, by clicking subscribe below and ringing the bell for notifications, or by searching 'Let's Talk Broncos' wherever you listen to podcasts!!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Hello, everybody. Welcome, It's another edition of Less Talk Broncos.
I'm excited to be here today. It feels like it's
been forever, I think, Zach. The last time we recorded
was right after the Broncos lost in the playoffs, so
it's been a bit. How are you feeling today, though.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Man, feeling good? Feeling good. You know, took we took
a week off getting our off season schedules sorted. But
we're gonna have a lot of exciting content for the
people excited, really excited for this offseason. You know, last
year was kind of the talking yourself into the optimism,
the you know, it's finally they're finally climbing out of
the muck. And now you know, they're seemingly out of
(00:52):
it and we can start really looking ahead to building
towards contention and you know, building uh to try and
compete for a division title and all that stuff, which
I think is going to be a lot more fun
to talk about. And yeah, I'm just cool. It's a
whole different realm than you and I have gotten to
live in as analysts for as long as we've done this.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
No, you're absolutely right, and you know what though, also
what comes with that is new expectations. It's new expectations
for the Broncos this offseason and then especially next season,
new expectations all around the Broncos. If they don't make
the playoffs, it is like we're not just happy to
be there. We need we are expecting to make it
(01:34):
this next year. That is the expectation going forward for
the Broncos. It's going to be a jam packed off season.
We have the Senior Bowl coming up very very shortly.
I want everyone to go. Make sure you're following Jacob
Romano on Twitter Franky Abbott on Twitter. They're both going
to be at the Senior Bowl and be less talk.
Broncos representatives there writing articles, doing content down there. I
(01:56):
want to make sure I get a podcast with them
so I get a question both of them on what
they saw. So please make sure you're going to do that.
There's going to be I bet you more than one
future Bronco at the Senior Bowl. And if you want
the inside scoop before everybody else, make sure you're following
those two. I don't know, it's just gonna be a
really fun off season. Man. I'm excited about how I
(02:19):
don't have to think about the quarterback position for the
first time in.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Quite a while.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
So nice, It is so nice. I don't have to
think about cam Word, I don't even have to think
about Shador Sanders go bus. But I don't have to
think about that at all. It's about putting pieces around
the quarterback and making it work that way. And we're
gonna get into our biggest off season needs in this episode.
But first I wanted to tackle some coaches that could
(02:47):
be leaving the Broncos. Who may leave. I'm not gonna
say all these guys are leaving. All of them may
stay together, but who may leave? Zach, who do you
have is the most likely coach on the Broncos staff
now who could leave for a promotion or another job
in a different situation.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Jim Leonard. I think it's it's Jim Leonard by a
wide margin here. You know, Chris Banjo seems to maybe
be the favorite for the special teams coordinator position, you know,
with the Jets, but I've heard from multiple places now
(03:28):
that Jim Leonard is pretty much lined up to be
the Nebraska defensive coordinator unless he becomes the Broncos defense. Yes,
I had no idea about this, I guess this to you.
I'm sorry about this, Joey. I should have told you
this at some point. But yeah, I've heard that Jim
Leonard is well in line to be Nebraska's defensive coordinator
(03:51):
if he doesn't become the Broncos defensive coordinator. Part of
the reason I want Vance Joseph to get a head
coaching job during this cycle looks less likely now, but
maybe the Raiders come through is you're probably going to
lose one of these guys this year, and you know
if it's not like if if it's Vance Joseph, you'll
get picks and you'll have your DC of the future.
(04:13):
If it's Jim Letard that you lose, which is what's
going to almost certainly happen. If Vance Joseph doesn't get
hired away, then there's a good chance Vance Joseph gets
hired away next year, and then you don't really have
a built in a succession plan at defensive coordinator. So
I think Jim Leonard is the most likely to leave.
I'd say there's probably an eighty percent chance of him
(04:34):
leaving right now, unfortunately, and I think that might hurt
the Broncos. I think it would because he's been so
voud like the physicality this defensive backfield has played with
this year. I think he deserves a lot of credit
for that. And the leap they've taken from last season.
I think he deserves a lot of credit for that
as well. So yeah, that's that's one of the big
(04:56):
offseason storylines I'm monitoring. I hope they're able to hold
on to him. Think he might be out the door.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
So I had no idea about this. That's very, very interesting.
I find it especially interesting because Jim Leonard had defensive
coordinator jobs lined up in college prior to this year,
plenty of them too. Jim Leonard, for those that don't
know it, was one of the most coveted college defensive
(05:24):
coordinators in all of the sport. What he did at
Wisconsin was terrific. He brings in a unique styles. It's
very Rex Ryan esque. He obviously played under that system.
Is just he's an NFL player. He has all of
that going for him. Wisconsin had one of the best
defenses in college football when he was down there. He
was an intrim head coach. I know USC wanted him,
(05:47):
for example, I know he was coveted. I figured with
Jim Leonard the reason why he went to the NFL
was like, Okay, the college landscape is changing with the
NIL and everything to do about that. But now so
everything's changing, the lifestyles change. It's harder to coach in
(06:09):
college than the NFL in this era. That's why you
see college coaches trying to jump from that sport to
the NFL so consistently. So I thought that was the reason,
but it that that is very interesting, Zach. I like
that you dropped that nuggets. I had no idea.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yeah, and I hope it. I mean, I want the
best for everyone involved. But uh yeah, I hope Jim
Leonard stays as DC and in uh Denver with the Broncos.
You know, I I I think you raise a lot
of good points. I hope uh whatever scuttle, but I'm
hearing is off base because Yeah, I think Jim Leonard
(06:47):
has been incredibly valuable to this staff and it would
it would really hurt to lose him. Outside of him, though,
I think it'd be Chris Banjo. He's getting really tied
to Aaron Glenn's staff as a likely special teams coordinator
there with the Jets. You know that that one sucks
because it seems like it's either going to be him
or Rizzy for the Broncos Special Teams coordinator job, So
(07:11):
that would kind of leave the Broncos with only one
of their their ideal options. Uh. That said, it seems
like they're pretty much a shoe in to get Rizzy,
and Rizzy is their number one overall option. So I'm
not overly worried about Banjo leaving more more than anything
good on him. Glad he's uh, you know, taking a
step forward in his coaching career.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
I guess yeah, no, absolutely, I think I think those
are the two that are most likely, Zach. You just
named them right there. Jim Leonard and then Chris Banjo
are the two most likely. Now beyond that, I would say,
you know, Van Choseph is obviously taken head coaching interviews.
There's just not a lot of jobs left. We've gotten
hires and a lot of them through this time. Now,
(07:55):
after the Jaguars fired Blockade, do you do you think
think do you think that they now reset and they're like, Okay,
all the options are available. We have to recenter ourselves,
we have to figure this out. Or is it even
still Robert Sala, who I heard was their thirty third
(08:16):
option after the other two turn down the job. Did
you still think that Robert Sala is still at or
is it kind of a reset?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I think it's a little little column, a little colum
b you know, like, not all the options are on
the table for them because they shot themselves in the
foot and now they're top two. Then Johnson and Liam
Cohen have removed themselves from the table, you know, So
that's one element of that. I think. On the other side,
it is a reset because before you were looking for
(08:50):
head coach candidates to kind of have this arranged marriage
with a GM. Now you're looking for a head coach
and GM to come in together, which also, again, this
sucks because if they just made this very obvious right
decision four weeks ago. I think Ben Johnson very well.
Maybe the Daguars, I agree, because the Bears, the Bears
(09:12):
big thing was they had the quarterback, the Raiders big thing.
It was surprising that he was attracted there, and then
it came out, well he likes them because they've got
an owner that's willing to spend. Mark Davis isn't. He's
fairly cash poor relative to the other owners. But he's
willing to spend reinvest the profits from the team into
the team, and he felt like he could maybe get
(09:32):
some patience there. That one always seemed more murky than
Shad Cohn, who is constantly spending money on the Jags
and his patient to a fall. So if he wanted,
you know, like money, power. Oh, Also, the big thing
in Las Vegas. The main reason I shouldn't go lost
over this was the fact he'd get to pick his
own GM. So if the Jags just made this right
decision from the jump, he'd have the money he wanted,
(09:54):
the power he wanted, the patients he wanted, and a
liyable answer at quarterback, Liam Cohen. I think if Balki's
not involved, Liam Cohen probably keeps in the mix. So
now they they're onto maybe option three. But Robert Sala,
what GM are you bringing in with him? I mean,
(10:14):
maybe Joe Douglas if you want to give Joe Douglas
another bite of the apple. But he had a lot
of missuses in New York. I don't I don't know
about Robert Saala's other GMing connections. So is he a
guy you want to bring in when you know I
think it's one thing to like Robert Saul is kind
of desperate for a coaching opportunity now, or a head
(10:35):
coaching opportunity, He's going to be hard pressed. Yeah, so
you can kind of force that arranged marriage. Whereas you know,
now you're you want a head coach to kind of
be a figurehead of the whole operation, more like a
Sean Payton type, because he's kind of going to be
picking who the GM is that he's going to be
working with, and he's probably going to be the final
(10:56):
shot caller there. I don't know what. I don't know
what direction the Jacks are gonna go. Now, maybe it
is Vance Joseph. I would not take that off the
table because to your question, I think it is a
hard reset at this point.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
What is the one I'm forgetting his name right now?
The Broncos had an assistant to George Payton interview for
the movie Moogie, So I'm thinking that in a situation
right like, this is all hypothetical, This is all just
I was about to say the if Moogie were to
get Vance Joseph and Moogie could possibly be a pairing
(11:32):
for GM and head coach somewhere. All pretty much all
the options are off the table. As we just mentioned,
it's Vegas and Jacksonville still left waiting to hiring head coaches.
It sounds like Vegas kind of has their list going now.
I brought up to Blockie point because they fired him.
I don't know what happens. I don't even know if
Salah is still their third option anymore. Right, how much
(11:55):
input did the former GM have in Sala being third
option and now he's gone, So I don't know. I
don't know where what the situation is there. I just
maybe maybe Vance Joseph is one another thing is Okay,
let's say Vanchose goes, who's an offensive coordinator for Vance Joseph.
I would look at Davis Webb for the Broncos quarterback coach. Right,
(12:19):
do you think Davis Webb is deserving of an offensive
coordinator positions act?
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yeah, I mean the biggest thing in the NFL is
cultivating the quarterback position, and Davis Webb, you know, limited
a sample here, but it looks like he's pretty strong
at doing that. What we've seen from bo Nicks I
think is really uh promising again, and no one else
in the NFL really had the faith in him that
(12:46):
this Bronco staff had in him, and they've been really
proven right so far. He's incredibly young. I think he's
like not even thirty five, so he's he's way younger
than he even like a Sean McVay type was when
McVeigh got his Rams gig. But you know, I think
offensive coordinator is going to be around the corner. I
(13:08):
think the teams probably want to see one more year
from him, because again, he is just such a young coach.
But I think next year, if things, if the Broncos
stay on an upward trajectory and the AFC is going
to be tough for next year. It was kind of
a down year in the AFC with the Dolphins and
the Bengals and then the Jags just falling off a cliff.
(13:32):
But if they go ten and seven again and then
the offense takes a big step forward and they're more
like a top tennis offense instead of a top sixteen offense,
then I think there's a great chance he gets hired away.
I think he's a year off, though he's still pretty great.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
He is very young. I mean, this quarterback coach job
was his first coaching job in the NFL and he
just got it when Sean Payton was hired. That was
his first NFL coaching jop so he has a little
bit to go. I think that's all I have on
my list. I mean all honorably mentioned. David Shaw, who
is a personnel executive with the Broncos. I could see
(14:10):
him try to get into coaching realm. I have a
hard time seeing him get into the personnel executive roles
right now. He has so much experience in coaching. This
last year was his first year as an NFL kind
of executive type role. GM like would be the next
roll up type of thing. He's not ready for that.
(14:31):
I would look at him as a coach somewhere. It's
just probably not going to happen for him this offseason.
I think he's still going to be a bronco in
my opinion, unless you wanted to make the jump back
to college football, that would be very possible.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I fully agree. I will say though, you know, the
college coaches operate a lot like a GM, you know,
an NFL GM, And I do wonder maybe this is
the path he's going down now at this point in
his career. I legitimately don't know I haven't seen a
quote from him either direction, but if he is going
down the personnel route, you know, Moogie, I think is
a more logical tie for Vance Joseph just because he's
(15:07):
higher ranking member. He's the assistant GM. But David Shaw
as another member of that the Broncos front office that's
well regarded. I wondered if he could maybe be the
pairing with fansters. I'd say that's way less likely. Yeah,
that's one that if it came to fruition, the Broncos
would not get two compensatory third rounders. They would get
(15:28):
four compensatory third rounds. That would be game changing for
their outlook. So hopefully the Raiders do that.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Shout out to the Raiders. I mean, man, tom Brady
joined the Raiders. I grew up hating Tom Brady. It
only makes sense say he's a Raider now. Man, it's
bad news over there. All right, let's move into the
main topic of the show today, which is the biggest
needs this offseason. I think we're gonna lightly touch on
who could fill some of these roles as well. We're
(15:57):
gonna go with offense today, and we have three positions.
I first wanted to start off with running back Zach
how big of a need is running back to this
Broncos team, Like, I thought it was atrocious this last year.
Say you, what do you have to say about that?
Speaker 2 (16:11):
I think it's the biggest need. I think the tight
end room is worse. I think running back is more
important for this team taking the next step. The foundation
is there for the Broncos to be a really great
rushing offense. It's annoying, Like it's crazy to say, and
I know everyone got mad when this was alluded to
(16:34):
in the past during the regular season, but the bones
of like not only a good run game, but like
a great run gamer. There. The Broncos have a lot
of overlap with the twenty twenty four Broncos, That is,
with the twenty twenty three Philadelphia Eagles, where you have
this really great offensive line that's opening some stuff up
for your running backs and they're just not getting the
(16:57):
most out of it. They're not getting what they should
be out of it. Now, there's not a Saquon Barkley
out there, There's not a Derrick Henry out there in
this cycle. So I don't think you'll see that ridiculous leap.
But this is a rushing attack that they are eleventh
in the NFL in yards before contact per attempt. If
(17:17):
you isolate it to running backs, just running back carries,
there's sixth in the NFL in yards before contact per attempt.
So what does that tell you. It's blocked up well,
which is one offensive line execution. But to the scheming, right,
if it's a bad scheme, if it's drawn up that
on the whiteboard and it doesn't make any sense, doesn't
really matter. If the players are great, it's not going
(17:40):
to be a successful play. Consistently. Broncos ranked ninth in
a rushing success rate or sorry, eleventh in rushing success rate.
So they're a top third third of the league run game.
When you just isolate offensive line kind of and the
scheming of it, all that potential is there. Now when
(18:01):
you isolate the running backs, you get the exact opposite story.
They're thirtieth out of thirty two teams in yards after
contact per attempt. Javonte Williams ranks dead last in the
NFL among all running backs in yards after contact per attempt.
Remember that was his whole thing, right, Javonte Williams getting
yards after contact last in the NFL. Forty one to
(18:23):
forty one. He is fourth worst in EPA per attempt,
that's thirty thirty eighth rather out of forty one. He
is fortieth second worst in rushing yards over expectation per attempt.
So that's three big metrics that attempt to isolate the
running back. Each of them are telling you that this
(18:43):
is one of the three worst running backs in the
sport right now, sorry, four worst running backs in the
sport right now. I mean, that's an incredibly damaging thing.
And again, the Broncos top third of the NFL run
game ultimately in terms of success rate. I think even
in terms of VPA their top twenty ish, despite these
(19:04):
running backs shooting the run game in the foot very regularly.
Sometimes these NFL problems are very complicated and it's a
lot of different moving parts. I really think this one
is simple. Upgrading center, I think would be nice. That
would definitely help. The running backs are really bad. This
was the worst running back room in the NFL last year.
(19:26):
There was a lot there for them to gobble up
if they were capable of doing it, but they squandered
those opportunities and as a result, the Broncos run game
was lackluster. As you go into year two and things
are going to get tougher for Bonix and year two,
his defenses now know his strengths and weaknesses. He's going
to get game planned for a little more. He's going
(19:47):
to be forced to play left handed. Some you don't
want to do to him what the Texans did to
c J. Stroud this past year when CJ. Stroud didn't
have a run game or a line he could kind
of fall back on, or a running back he could
fall back on when Joe Mixon was injured. This class
is loaded with dudes. If the Broncos have a bad
(20:08):
running back room next year, it'll be embarrassing. There's so
many avenues to fixing it this offseason.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yeah, there really is. You hit the nail on the
head in a lot of aspects. Javonte Williams game was
built upon yards after contact. That was his game even
coming out of college. Go back and read some of
the scatting reports on Javonte Williams. No one was sitting
(20:34):
there being like Javante Williams has great vision. Matter of fact,
that was in the negative column of Javonte Williams. So okay,
So now I'm taking away a player's ability to break
tackles and make stuff happen in that fashion. And I'm
also still giving him that negative of Okay, he doesn't
have great vision. It's just hard to run the football
(20:56):
when we're talking about that football player, like that's tough.
And then okay, we could go up and down the
wrestle out here. Julian McLoughlin very one trick, pony ish right,
good vision, fast, kind of electric, not the greatest. He's
not gonna fall forward on many runs. He's a tel
(21:16):
in a lot of aspects. He can't catch the botto
of the backfield often, he's not running complex routes out
of the backfield often. And then uh, he's not blocking
literally at all. Okay, Otter g Estimate he barely played
this year for a plethora of reasons, and even to him,
I thank you for what was that for the playoff game?
(21:37):
Just wanted to add down there like the barely played
and then in the biggest spot they were like healthy
scratch Yeah, and Estimate has a role. I think it's
just not anywhere near lead back. It's nowhere near that, right,
I don't he's not ready as a pass blocker. Yet,
which is something that no. I mean, people are arguing
up and down the timeline about that today. I don't
(21:59):
know what people are looking at. He's big, he has
the capabilities to pass Blackwell, pass bro He's just not
picking up his assignment right and that's probably part of
the reason why he was mentioned in that playoff game.
So the Broncos running back situation, all of them are
replaceable level. I think you could go into this offseason.
I'm writing an article. It's coming out very soon. I
(22:22):
sent it to Zach tonight for editing. I just finished it. Yea,
that's out this weekend.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Okay, yeah, I'll get it out this weekend. I'll try
and do tomorrow and for or Friday, but we'll see.
I can get that.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
If you want the article, tweet at Zach Seegers.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yeah yeah, tweet pound out my door, get the torches
getting get it out.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I don't know, but I have an article coming out
on draft eligible running backs. I did my top eight.
I watched about twelve thirteen something like that different running backs.
All the popular names I heard, all of were solid,
all of them were definitely draftable, and most of them
were upgrades on what the Broncos would have this year.
(23:07):
So I'm excited to put that article out. I hope
everyone checks that out. I just think this is one
of the Broncos' biggest needs. If you can transform this
run game, the Broncos offense would be a ton better.
This is an offense that I think is going to
thrive staying ahead of the sticks consistently, and how you
do that is with an effective run game. And they're
gonna have ample opportunity to this offseason. So I'm excited
(23:29):
for it.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah. Same, and really quick, Joey tell us about some
of the draft options, because because the veteran options are
not that great, we've gone over the whole or the
need and why the Broncos need to address it. Some
of the options to fill it veteran ones. I'll touch
(23:52):
on it quick because I don't think there's that many
that are exciting. You've got Aaron Jones and Naji Harris
those area with the big name options, but I just
I don't think that's the route you want to go.
Aaron Jones was fine this past year, but Minnesota's run
game was pretty dang rough and he was a big
(24:14):
part of that. For most of the season Naji Harris.
I don't think he's lived up to his first round
billion at all. I think you're drafting or I think
you'd be signing him because of his twenty four to
seven recruiting score, which seems like a questionable reason to
sign a guy at age twenty seven. And then Nick Chubb.
I saw some hype for Nick Chubb to the Broncos today.
(24:36):
I mean, what are we talking about here? The guy
has had had his leg snapped in half the wrong
way at thirty, then had ended this season with a
broken foot. Oh and I mean he didn't qualify for
those Javonte Williams metrics when I was, you know, rattling
off rushing yards over expectation, and you know, he didn't
(24:56):
reach the minifying qualified, minimal, qualif fine factors to be
among those forty one backs. But he's worse than Javonte
Williams and all those numbers, so he'd be a downgrade.
I don't know. The idea that he would be fixing
any of the problems is bonkers to me. I mean,
if we can travel back in time to twenty twenty
(25:17):
one to sign me up, but otherwise, no, thank you.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
I'll give you a replacement for like a Nick Chubb
or Javonte Williams. That type of running back. I think
everyone knows about him, and it's Camp Scataboo, the Arizona
State running back. You even mentioned Najie Harris. I think
if you're looking for that type of guy, Camp Scataboo,
if we're not talking about the Omarion Hampdens of the world,
who you might have to take in that first round pick.
(25:43):
I could definitely see him going the first round at
the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Scattaboo's got crazy contact balance.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Crazy contact balance. He's huge. I think he's like five
ten two twenty five big back, runs low to the ground,
shoulders in front of him, delivers the hit. I think
the most interesting part about him is he's usually when
you're talking about running backs like him, all right, I'm
(26:11):
describing this big, bruising type of running back. You're talking
about a guy, Okay, we definitely need to get him
in a gap power system and we're running him up
the middle every single time. Think Scattaboo's a little more interesting.
I think he almost I would prefer him to run
in kind of like an inside zone type of system.
(26:33):
His vision is terrific. I think he finds the cutback
lane consistently. He weaves in and out of his lineman.
He's patient, he sets those blockers up. I also think
he's a really good receiver. He almost had six hundred
yards receiving this last year for Arizona State. He has
solid hands, can run all of the traditional routes out
of the backfield that you're looking for your running back.
(26:54):
He's a good player, really good player.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Yeah, what I saw from him in the playoffs, and
I haven'tudi them like you have, It's really exciting from
what I saw now. I feel like most of our
audience will be familiar with Skataboo, just because again he
got so much hype, you know, with the conference championships
and then the college football playoff all that. Some of
the heightsmen talked too, Amari and Hampton. I know you're
(27:19):
a big fan of his. I know you kind of
talked about him being maybe the higher tier version of
camp Scattaby, maybe a first round option. But I don't
think the Broncos are going to shy away from drafting
a running back in the first round. If they fall
in love with a guy. What could Broncos country expect
from Amari and.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Hampton ridiculous contact balance. A lot of people, Broncos fans
at least, I've seen a lot of people be like, Oh,
we don't need another jamonte On, guys, we need to
stop the helmet scouting. That never has made sense. It
never does it. So if amar On Hampton went to
see you, we'd like him all of a sudden, stop it.
We're not doing all of that makes no sense at all,
(27:59):
but ridiculou this contact balance. I think he's ready day
one as a third down back as well. I think
he can play in those obvious passing situations. He's an
asset in the passing game, and unlike another UNC running
back on the Broncos right now, has really good vision
as well. He runs super angry, has really good vision,
(28:19):
finds the correct hole, can press the mesh point really well,
cut back find holes on the opposite side. He's an
awesome running back. Hint for my article tomorrow. He's in
my opinion, the second best running back in this class,
over Caleb Johnson, over all these other guys in this class.
Though Marion Hampton is really ridiculous, he would he would
(28:41):
reinvent this Bronco's running game very quick. If he ends
up in blue and orange next year.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Now, who do you think just put yourself in George
Peyton's shoes for a minute. And we're very early in
this process. We don't know where really guys will go,
but right now, based on kind of what we think,
what running back you think is kind of the best
bang for your your buck? Or is there a guy
you're hoping the Broncos end up with where not necessarily
the best guy, But man, I think this fit makes
(29:08):
so much sense. It's it's right in the sweet spot.
For example, gunner Helm, I think you know, you might
think some tight end prospects are better than gutter Heelm,
but you're like, hey, I think gutner Helm's ninety five
percent of those guys, ninety percent of those guys, and
I can get them in round three? Is there a
version of that for you at running back?
Speaker 1 (29:26):
For me, it would be I don't know about round three.
Maybe it's round three, maybe it's round two. You never
know what these running backs, and especially in such a
stacked class, Zach, It's it's very confusing. Like I was
texting you, I was like Man, I'm having a hard
time stacking these guys up on my list because I
feel like I'm just picking the style I like, that's
(29:48):
how that is, how stacked that group is a guy
that would make a lot of sense though for Sean Payton,
in my opinion, is Devin Neil from Kansas. That's a
dude that he's not to that level, but similar play style,
like aesthetically archetype wise to like an Alvin Kamara. The
(30:09):
balance specifically is something Alvin Kamara was always known as
the balance guy. Like, Okay, he wasn't gonna deliver the hit,
but man, could he absorb contact bounce off of a guy?
The guy could chop his legs out from under him. Wow,
how is he still on his feet? You know? That's
what I kind of see in Devin Neil, along with
being a plus in the passing game as well. We
(30:32):
all know, I mean everyone sat here and watched it
on our We're all Broncos fans here at the shat.
Everyone knows there's a lot of complaining about how many
screens man he throws any screens that Devin Neil will
be a huge asset in the screen games, as was
Alvin Kamara. Devin Neil would make a Neil would make
a ton of sense for the Broncos man. I think
(30:54):
that's a guy everyone should circle underline all of.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
That, that name and one last vet all throw out
there if the Broncos want to upgrade on Julia McLoughlin
on that role in their room. Ty Johnson, the guy
who caught that crazy touchdown in the playoffs for the Bills.
He's an upcoming free agent. I think there's a very
good chance the Bills let him walk. You want to
talk about maybe maximizing what you're getting out of the
(31:19):
screen game a bit more, he'd be another good option
for that.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Yeah, Ty Johnson was vital in that. I mean, James
Cook was known for having really good hands and being
a receiver type of back out of Georgia. But Ty
Johnson is clearly even better because he took that role
from James Cook. James Cook is kind of their runner,
and Ty Johnson took that third down role as a
receiver and as a pass blocker even for that team.
(31:45):
So Ty Johnson's a good call. He'd make a ton
of sense in the Broncos offense. The next position I
want to hop twosach is tight end. Tight end I
think was probably, pound for pound, their weakest position this
year for the Broncos. Really sucked at it.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Yes, terrible. I mean, I mean Adam Troutman is not
starting for any other team in the league.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
I think, Yeah, I think that's fair. I don't think
he is either. He just he's a zero in the
past game and he's a cool blocker, so I would
describe him. He's not even like elite.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Yeah, it's it's uh yeah, he's really not good. I mean,
uh yeah, it's it's crazy how unproductive he's been as
a tight end. Like we joke about the revolving door
of generic tight ends the Broncos have had in the
last decade, and even amongst that really unimpressive crop, he
stands out as especially unimpressive. When you look at the numbers. It's,
(32:44):
uh yeah, it's it's I don't get it, man, I
don't get He's like, they need to find it a
little more projuice there. Whether it be a vet, whether
it be a draft pick, you just you have to
uh yeah, you.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Have to find something there. I agree with you. I
think the Broncos could upgrade at both in line and
move tight end, both of them. For a lot of
people like tying in all the tight ends together. Those
are two different positions, inline tight end and move tight end.
The move tight end is going to be your more
athletic one. I can throw him in the slot in
the Broncos case, sometimes I can. I'm moving him around
(33:21):
right like I'm doing different stuff from him. He's off
the line of scrimmage. My inline tight end is more
of what we're talking about with Adam Troutman. He's gonna
do a lot more of the dirty work. He's your
Daniel Graham. You're right, This is the way I would
put it for Broncos fans. Your inline tight end is
your Daniel Graham. Your move tight end is your Tony
Schefter Tony Scheffler. That that's the difference, right, We need both.
(33:46):
I would say we could. We could do both. We
can upgrade on either of those or both in the
same offseason. I'm looking at. Is there anyone in free agency, Zach,
I know we were talking before the show. Jawan Johnson
was the guy you were thinking about. Does that make
sense for you as a move tight end?
Speaker 2 (34:06):
I think Juwan Johnson is the name to watch and
I think that's a name the Bronco should absolutely go
out and get. They're gonna have some resources this offseason
to to sign some veterans. A swing on a T.
Higgins might be tough, or you know some of those
really expensive lanes to be shopping in. Well we'll get
into that in a bit, but there's you know, they
(34:31):
have the room to actually make some moves this year,
which they haven't really since the Russell Wilson trade. The
problem is there's just not great options out there. I
think Juwan Johnson is comfortably the best one pretty good receiver.
Uh here's a fun little Jawan Johnson said for you.
In each of his three seasons in the NFL at
(34:51):
tight end, he has had more for see way, let
me make sure this's right. Oh, he's just short. So
his least productive sea as an NFL receiver was thirty
seven receptions for three hundred and sixty eight yards and
four touchdowns Adam Troutman during his entire Denver Broncos tenure,
(35:12):
which is two seasons, so double the length of time.
Just to be clear, thirty five receptions. That's three more
for three hundred and ninety two yards. It's like thirty
more and where why can't I not find touchdowns all
of a sudden and not many touchdowns?
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Zero touchdowns?
Speaker 2 (35:31):
He must have not caught a single touchdown with the
Denver Broncos. I don't see him in his No, that don't.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
I can't remember any off the top of my head.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
I was. I was looking at his advanced box score
on a Pro Football Records for a second, excuse me.
And five touchdowns during his entire Bronco tenure.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
I don't remember the trout.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
His other two seasons. He's over five hundred yards, he's
got several receiving touchdowns. While you're developing an option, because
I do bet they draft someone at some point in
this year's class. But if it's not Tyler Warren, that
guy's probably not going to be ready to plug and
play and immediately change that position. And guess what that
position needs to change immediately. Yes, they need a long
(36:15):
term solution too, but it also needs to change right now.
Jawan Johnson knows the offense well, knows what it will
be asked if him was brought in originally by Sean
Payton has blossomed into his tight end role, and I
think would be a great addition for bo Nicks to have.
We always hear about how a tight end is a
quarterback safety blanket. Boonis didn't have a safety blanket this
(36:38):
past year. Johnson would provide.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
That didn't at all, did not at all, no athleticism,
no juice out of that group, and then really not
even that great of blocking out of that.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Group, and really quick, sorry, I know I went for
a while. There's not any other great options out there
is the other thing, Like, if you want to move
tight end, your other best options are you know, thirty
year old Mike that's probably it. Tyler Conklin is kind
of like a do it all guy, but he's not
(37:07):
overly exciting. And then your best options for like a
true blocking tight end. Do you want the forty one
year old version of Mercedes Lewis.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Do you want soccer from Mercedes Lewis I've won?
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Or how about the thirty one year old version of
Pharaoh Brown or the thirty two year old version of
MOLEI Cox. Like there's just not.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Damn mo Alie Cox is that old? I mean, yeah,
not that many Mercedes Lewis. Mad He's had He's been
the extra offensive lineman. To a lot of teams in
the NFL through his career. Ever since those Jacksonville days,
people don't remember. I feel like he was playing with
Maurice Shoes Drew. I feel like he was playing with
(37:49):
David Gerard. I feel like he's been playing forever Mercedes Lewis.
As far as the draft goes, I mean, everyone in
broadcast country knows Kyler Warren. He's an inline type of guy.
I think he does. I think he we overstate some
aspects of him. Zach on the timeline. He is special
(38:10):
in a lot of areas, I think specifically in space.
Sometimes I'm looking at him and I'm like, man, he
looks like Gronk running over that guy or stiff arming
that guy, or whatever the case may be. The party.
We we overstate some things about him. He does need
some work as a blocker, though, Like I think that
(38:31):
is something that needs to be said. We need that
people are watching the highlights. He does have a lot
of highlight level blocks. He yes, the potential is there
as a blocker. He does need refinement his technique, though,
I don't think he comes in day one and is
a huge asset in the run game. He whiffs, he
causes negative plays sometimes for that, and then go along
(38:54):
with that, he's not the greatest route runner. What he
is really great at, though, is boxing defenders out and
high pointing the football. So yeah, anyways, I'm off of
that tangent. I've just been arguing with people about that.
It's it's really good tight end class otherwise, and I
like Warren by the way, I have to throw that
(39:15):
out there. I just I don't think he's that brock
Bowers level tight end everyone level tight end prospect that
everyone else is putting out there closer the level is
an option Gunn as a move tight end. Gunner Helm
is an option is kind of in between in line
and move tight end. There's a lot of different tight
end options in this class Ferguson from Oregon Fan and
(39:39):
people like, there's a lot. Joe Brewer says, Mark Andrews.
Maybe I saw Frankie throw this out on the timeline
as well. What do you have to say about that,
zex Seegers.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
I think there's a very solid chance of it happening,
you know, not uh uh, maybe what I would most
want to see happen. But I think it's a solid
option for the vet move like I was saying, they
needed to change right away. Mark Andrews would help it
change right away. The Ravens are close to having to
(40:13):
make a decision on Mark Andrews versus Isaiah Likely, and
I think understandably they're gonna go Isaiah Likely there just
he's the younger guy. Andrews is about to turn thirty
and you know, has not had his best seasons as
of play. It's also dealt with a lot of injuries
over the course of his career, and they can free
up a lot of money by trading him for the Broncos.
(40:36):
It would also make a lot of sense. He would
be making just under six million dollars next year, which
would be really cheap for a tight end. Yeah, a
good value move. You know, it's not gonna be the
long term solution, but it'll give you a you know what,
(40:57):
top fifteen to twenty tight end in the league, which
is better than they've had in a long, long, long time,
and you can probably get him for pretty cheap. The
most expensive part of that transaction is going to be
whatever pick you give up for him, which one would figure,
you know, is at most the third right, So I
think that would be very appealing to the Broncos.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Yeah, no, that would make sense. I mean it would
be a huge upgrade right away. I think a lot
of people are gonna have pushback because of the game
he had recently and that was atrocious. I feel bad
for Ravens fans that was so bad. But he would
be a massive upgrade for the Broncos. It would make sense.
I would be all here for it. I would like
(41:40):
it if they made a move like that. I think
a trade for a tight end that you know was
good makes sense. It does make sense. Usually when you
draft these rookie tight ends, it takes a little bit
for them to get into the speed of the NFL.
That's one of the slower developing positions in the league.
So trading for one does make sense. Next position does
(42:02):
Zach wide receiver. This is a position you wanted to
touch on. I feel like they need like at alpha one,
That's what I feel like they need in this group.
I think Courtland Sutton is nice to have. I think
Marvin Mims is nice to have. I think they're kind
of struggling in their depth past that a little bit.
(42:23):
But I think I think more than anything, you need
that alpha wide receiver one or a guy that can
slide into that Z position specifically.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
I fully agree, and I I don't think that guy
is out there in this class anywhere. I don't think
some other maybe maybe maybe it is a T Higg.
It's actually before I go down that rabbit hole. Do
you want to grab the super chat quick?
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Yeah? For sure, Kodiak Broncos podcast shout out to you.
I mean, if anyone wants to subscribe to that podcast,
make sure you're doing it. I'm convinced the Broncos wight
use a round one pick on tight end Warren does
in the last past Indy at fourteen in industry macks
now and Leveland's inconsistent year due to quarterbacks last scheme
may have them out of round one. What do you
got to say about that, Zach?
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Yeah, I don't know if I'd go as far as
to say convinced. We're so early and the Broncos needs
are so wide ranging that I'm not convinced in any
direction right now.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
Now.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
Also, industry mocks this early. I just don't think are
overly reliable. We see so much shifting over these next
two months, and some of that skuys who right now
we expect to be late first rounders or second rounders
climbing up twenty thirty spots, and then sometimes it's skys
we project to go high, falling twenty thirty spots, and
then there's always you know, the draft night surprises where
(43:49):
Michael Pennix goes way earlier than we think are I'm
trying to think of like a classic fall right now,
like Miles Jack, you know, falls out of the first
round when everyone thought he was going to be a
top pick, So that that'd be my one thing I
would agree with him. I don't think it's super likely.
I there's a lot of other avenues for the Broncos
(44:13):
to address tight end this year that I think just
make more sense. It's a really strong tight end class.
They can you know, address it in the middle rounds.
They could sign a Juwan Johnson. I think Kodyak's probably
going to be right because I would bet you know,
I would bet against the Broncos drafting a running back
in the first round too, right, I think it's far
(44:33):
more likely that they draft a different position, like I
would take the field over them drafting running back. That said,
I still think it's very probable that they take a
running back in the first round, if Ashton Genty falls
to them, or they fall in love with a Hampton
or a Caleb Johnson or whatever. So that's what I
think about. That kind of a wishy washy non answer,
but I wouldn't count them out of anything right now.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
I gotta agree with codyak broncos I'm not gonna lie
with you. Go ahead, I think. I mean, I could
see the appeal with Warren and specific I could also
see the appeal maybe Sean Payton has with Levland in
the first round. I'm just trying to figure out. I
(45:18):
think you have to be a really elite tight end
to be considered in this number round one selection to
get your ROI return on investment on a round one
tight end like the run of the mill seven hundred
yards or six hundred yards. It's not even run of
the mill that's really good for a tight end. If
you get six hundred and seven hundred yards in the
(45:39):
first round, or if you get six hundred and seven
yard hundred yards from your tight end, that's a damn
good season for your tight end. Now would I rather
want that or a wide receiver that could get me
one thousand yards in the first round, right, because that's
the kind of equivalent there. Really good wide receivers give
me a thousand yards, or really good tight ends probably
give me six hundred seven hundred yards. I can count
(46:02):
the elite tight ends on one hand. So it takes.
It takes a really special prospect here. And that's why
I was so convinced with Bowers, because I watched him
and I was like, Wow, this guy's ridiculous. I would
draft him if I were the Broncos. I don't see
that guy in this class. I would take advantage of
the depth, and I would take advantage of the niche
(46:24):
those depth pieces offer me. There are good receiving pieces,
there are good blocking pieces, and I would take advantage
of that.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
Yeah, I fully agree. And on the investment point, the
thing about drafting certain positions high in the draft, a
lot of it is those first round salaries. Right If
whoever the Broncos draft is going to be making four
point five million dollars a year over their rookie deal.
And this isn't the end all be all, but it's
like it's something to kind of keep in mind. You know,
(46:57):
four point five million, that's like I'm trying to see
what Brandon Cooks is signing for at the very end
of his career. You know. So the bar for a
receiver to you know, even hit even let alone get
surplus value, is pretty low as opposed to you know,
a tight end making four million this year is like
(47:18):
John new Smith, who I'm pretty sure is in the
Pro Bowl for the Miami Dolphins this year. It's just
the cost for entry at the tight end position is
much lower than it is at wide receiver some of
these other ones. So the bar for the same thing
applies a running back, right, You can find a good
starting running back for four million dollars a year. So
(47:38):
to hit on a first round running back, they at
least have to be a good starter. That's the only
way you're getting near your return on investment for it
to really be a hit. Where Wow, what a great pick.
They've got to be a damn near superstar. You know.
That was the conversation surrounding Bijon in this draft, and
we'll hear it a lot with gent over these next
coming months too.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
Yeah, No, you're absolutely right. You are absolutely right. For me.
Getting back to the wide receiver point, we were talking
to before this about that, I don't see the option
available Zach to like get that wide receiver one type.
I do think like Mbecca Umbuka from Ohio State would
(48:21):
make a lot of sense here as a guy that
can block his butt off. He's really good at those
crossing routes across the Middle East, tough as nails and
he yeah, he's an actual seat. And then you can
move him to the slot as well, where he blocks
blocks his butt off too closer to the line of
scrimmage and you can kind of use him as your
(48:42):
z Okay, we don't want little Jordan Humphrey on the
field anymore. We can put him in the slot as
your blocker guy right there. That would make sense as well.
Outside of that, Travis Hunter is the one guy that
I'm like convinced is a wide receiver one in this class.
Ted McMillan is a guy I would watch out for
the possibility burden if the Broncos were the draft him.
(49:05):
I imagine him being more He's a Marvin Mims type
role than anything else. So I don't think that makes sense.
I don't know, is there anybody in free agency that
you're considering they're out wide receivers act.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
You know, I think we got to talk about the
T Higgins of it all, and I love the names
you highlighted there in the draft. I would say this
to Broncos country. Only one team is going to win
the T Higgins sweepstakes. Like Green Bay, for example, a
team that we might not think of as having like
a serious wide receiver need, they're having T Higgins talks
right now because even though they have a lot of
(49:40):
deep receivers, they're looking for that alpha guy too, and
they think that maybe T Higgins could be that. There's
a lot of teams I just intentionally pulled like a
kind of obscure one that are going to be looking
for T Higgins services this year. The Patriots, I think
are probably the most likely candidate. They have comfortably over
one hundred million dollars in cap space. They've got very
(50:01):
few places to spend it. I would I think they
are the heavy favorite to land T Higgins, and the
Broncos just frankly can't win a spending war against the
Patriots if the Patriots want to win that war. So
I just one team is going to win this, and
whichever team does win, it is probably going to be
signing him on a bad deal, something that we haven't
(50:24):
seen a lot of in the NFL recently. Credit to
Robert Mays for pointing this out, but I think it's
a good point. Is like the Juwan James or the
Menelik Watson type contracts where it's like, oh, this guy
was like kind of okay at this other spot, but
we're so desperate for an answer, We're going to pay
him at the top of the market to come to
(50:44):
our team and try and fill that need in free
agency because maybe it could work out. Teams have gotten
a lot smarter about that. I think paying t Higgins
a Jamar Chase Ceedee Lamb level salary when he's gotten
to operate as the number two in an offense with
a perennial MVY candidate every single year of his career
is a big red flag. And that's not even mentioning
(51:05):
the fact that he has had a series of nagging
injuries over these past two seasons. These last two seasons
for him have been his most injury prone, and I
think he's an awesome talent. Like in a vacuum, I
would not be dogging him like this when the conversation
is do you want to pay him a Jamar Chase contract.
I mean, that's the bar we're going up to, and
(51:27):
I think he pales in comparison. I think the Broncos
would be much better off signing a guy like Chris
Godwin for probably half the price you would have to
sign Higgins too. Fits more with the Broncos need another
guy that fits. Sean Payton, blocks his ass off, tout
his nails. You worry about the injury some there, but
(51:48):
I would much rather take that roll of the dice
than That's the other thing with T Higgins. You're not
only giving him this big contract, It's going to be
a Russell Wilson type deal where you're locked in for
the foreseeable future. If it's a gamble that goes wrong
for you, it's gonna be very painful to get out of.
And the Broncos are just now getting out of, uh
that type of shit storm. I don't want them to
(52:10):
immediately dive right back in. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:13):
I'm more of the camp that in this offseason free
agency wise and just moving off just to you know,
uh his final no here. I'm more of the camp
that I would be looking to sign, you know, not
small deals, maybe starter level deals, but not huge deals.
I'm not going out there signing huge deals this offseason.
Speaker 2 (52:34):
I got one for you. This is a great sleeper.
I think that because people are talking about Darius Layton too.
I think he fits there. A couple of sleepers that
I haven't heard mentioned that I think kind of makes sense.
These are specifically litl Jordan Humphrey upgrades. I know he's
been the bane of Broncos country's existence. That I picked
up a couple potential upgrades. How about this one?
Speaker 1 (52:56):
Matt Collins Mac Collins block his ass off, in your face,
borderline dirty, which heys. That's the type of player you
love to have on your team, hate to play against.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
With Sean Payton's defensive coordinator, it should be.
Speaker 1 (53:10):
Not red zone target, red zone target for sure. Matt Collins.
I remember the Raiders when he was on the Raiders.
They love to throw him those fade like just quick
fades in the head zone and you would catch him.
Not a bad one, not a bad one. Blocks his
butt off. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:30):
Yeah, so that's one. Uh, this one's a deeper cut.
I was looking at the list of free agents though,
and it really intrigued me, Like I have been a
bit of a fan of for a while. Nicholas Westbrook Akine,
this is a wow Titans, right, yeah, Titans, bigger body.
(53:51):
He had like twenty receptions this year in like eight touchdowns.
It was something ponkers like he had. There's a really bizarre.
Speaker 1 (54:03):
Twenty touchdown is the craziest stat line I've ever heard.
Speaker 2 (54:06):
Yeah, I want to make sure I get it exactly right,
but he just wild how they used him because he's
this big red zone body six to two hundred and
fifteen pounds. Yeah, thirty two catches, nine touchdowns this year.
He was their go to red zone guy on an
offense that really didn't have any quarterback help, and he
(54:29):
did really well in that role. Another big, physical receiver
could help in the block game, blocking game, and I
think he's offering you more as a pass catcher than
Matt Collins or Lili George Humfrey. I will say, I
know Sean Payne has this rep of not spending big
on wide receivers, and that's true. That's very generally only
(54:50):
had one big money guy. That doesn't mean he doesn't
invest it all in the position.
Speaker 1 (54:56):
Right, you draft them that room, it.
Speaker 2 (54:58):
Drafts them and then there have been veterans signings in
the past. Uh, let me see if I can pull
it up right now. I was just looking at it
earlier today. But you have to fill out that room somehow.
It's never the big guys, it's not the big splashes.
But I don't think the fact he's only paying the
Michael Thomases of the world means he won't sign uh uh,
(55:21):
you know, little Jeorde Humphrey to fill out the room.
Speaker 1 (55:23):
Well, we also saw Josh Reynolds this offseason.
Speaker 2 (55:27):
Also true, like what I'm talking about. I think I
agree that he probably won't sign T Higgins. That's not
his style. I think when we're having those conversations, it's
makes sense to bring up, Hey, this guy's not a
guy who's typically made those big swings at that position.
I don't think it'll preclude him from, you know, these
these more budget signings.
Speaker 1 (55:48):
Yeah, no, absolutely, everybody. I think that is it for
today's show. I appreciate everybody who sat here and listened
to us. Shout out to everybody in the chat, seriously,
Shout out to all of you. Shout out again to
Kodiak Broncos Podcast for the ten dollars in the super Chat.
Thank you so much. If you guys have any draft questions,
hit me up at LTB Underscore Showy if you have
(56:10):
any football just in general, Zach's a genius when it
comes down to the cap, when it comes down to writing,
when it comes down to a lot of different Broncos topics.
Make sure you guys are tweeting at Zach. I'm gonna
be happy to answer. I know Zach is as well.
We're gonna we're gonna try to be more consistent here
with more shows. Zach and I have some special content
we're trying to get going, something new for the channel.
(56:33):
I don't want to give any hints and I don't
want to make any fake promises either, So keep an
eye out for that. That's something we're trying to until
next time, guys
Speaker 2 (56:45):
Check out my job I was on
Hello, everybody. Welcome, It's another edition of Less Talk Broncos.
I'm excited to be here today. It feels like it's
been forever, I think, Zach. The last time we recorded
was right after the Broncos lost in the playoffs, so
it's been a bit. How are you feeling today, though.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Man, feeling good? Feeling good. You know, took we took
a week off getting our off season schedules sorted. But
we're gonna have a lot of exciting content for the
people excited, really excited for this offseason. You know, last
year was kind of the talking yourself into the optimism,
the you know, it's finally they're finally climbing out of
the muck. And now you know, they're seemingly out of
(00:52):
it and we can start really looking ahead to building
towards contention and you know, building uh to try and
compete for a division title and all that stuff, which
I think is going to be a lot more fun
to talk about. And yeah, I'm just cool. It's a
whole different realm than you and I have gotten to
live in as analysts for as long as we've done this.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
No, you're absolutely right, and you know what though, also
what comes with that is new expectations. It's new expectations
for the Broncos this offseason and then especially next season,
new expectations all around the Broncos. If they don't make
the playoffs, it is like we're not just happy to
be there. We need we are expecting to make it
(01:34):
this next year. That is the expectation going forward for
the Broncos. It's going to be a jam packed off season.
We have the Senior Bowl coming up very very shortly.
I want everyone to go. Make sure you're following Jacob
Romano on Twitter Franky Abbott on Twitter. They're both going
to be at the Senior Bowl and be less talk.
Broncos representatives there writing articles, doing content down there. I
(01:56):
want to make sure I get a podcast with them
so I get a question both of them on what
they saw. So please make sure you're going to do that.
There's going to be I bet you more than one
future Bronco at the Senior Bowl. And if you want
the inside scoop before everybody else, make sure you're following
those two. I don't know, it's just gonna be a
really fun off season. Man. I'm excited about how I
(02:19):
don't have to think about the quarterback position for the
first time in.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Quite a while.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
So nice, It is so nice. I don't have to
think about cam Word, I don't even have to think
about Shador Sanders go bus. But I don't have to
think about that at all. It's about putting pieces around
the quarterback and making it work that way. And we're
gonna get into our biggest off season needs in this episode.
But first I wanted to tackle some coaches that could
(02:47):
be leaving the Broncos. Who may leave. I'm not gonna
say all these guys are leaving. All of them may
stay together, but who may leave? Zach, who do you
have is the most likely coach on the Broncos staff
now who could leave for a promotion or another job
in a different situation.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Jim Leonard. I think it's it's Jim Leonard by a
wide margin here. You know, Chris Banjo seems to maybe
be the favorite for the special teams coordinator position, you know,
with the Jets, but I've heard from multiple places now
(03:28):
that Jim Leonard is pretty much lined up to be
the Nebraska defensive coordinator unless he becomes the Broncos defense. Yes,
I had no idea about this, I guess this to you.
I'm sorry about this, Joey. I should have told you
this at some point. But yeah, I've heard that Jim
Leonard is well in line to be Nebraska's defensive coordinator
(03:51):
if he doesn't become the Broncos defensive coordinator. Part of
the reason I want Vance Joseph to get a head
coaching job during this cycle looks less likely now, but
maybe the Raiders come through is you're probably going to
lose one of these guys this year, and you know
if it's not like if if it's Vance Joseph, you'll
get picks and you'll have your DC of the future.
(04:13):
If it's Jim Letard that you lose, which is what's
going to almost certainly happen. If Vance Joseph doesn't get
hired away, then there's a good chance Vance Joseph gets
hired away next year, and then you don't really have
a built in a succession plan at defensive coordinator. So
I think Jim Leonard is the most likely to leave.
I'd say there's probably an eighty percent chance of him
(04:34):
leaving right now, unfortunately, and I think that might hurt
the Broncos. I think it would because he's been so
voud like the physicality this defensive backfield has played with
this year. I think he deserves a lot of credit
for that. And the leap they've taken from last season.
I think he deserves a lot of credit for that
as well. So yeah, that's that's one of the big
(04:56):
offseason storylines I'm monitoring. I hope they're able to hold
on to him. Think he might be out the door.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
So I had no idea about this. That's very, very interesting.
I find it especially interesting because Jim Leonard had defensive
coordinator jobs lined up in college prior to this year,
plenty of them too. Jim Leonard, for those that don't
know it, was one of the most coveted college defensive
(05:24):
coordinators in all of the sport. What he did at
Wisconsin was terrific. He brings in a unique styles. It's
very Rex Ryan esque. He obviously played under that system.
Is just he's an NFL player. He has all of
that going for him. Wisconsin had one of the best
defenses in college football when he was down there. He
was an intrim head coach. I know USC wanted him,
(05:47):
for example, I know he was coveted. I figured with
Jim Leonard the reason why he went to the NFL
was like, Okay, the college landscape is changing with the
NIL and everything to do about that. But now so
everything's changing, the lifestyles change. It's harder to coach in
(06:09):
college than the NFL in this era. That's why you
see college coaches trying to jump from that sport to
the NFL so consistently. So I thought that was the reason,
but it that that is very interesting, Zach. I like
that you dropped that nuggets. I had no idea.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yeah, and I hope it. I mean, I want the
best for everyone involved. But uh yeah, I hope Jim
Leonard stays as DC and in uh Denver with the Broncos.
You know, I I I think you raise a lot
of good points. I hope uh whatever scuttle, but I'm
hearing is off base because Yeah, I think Jim Leonard
(06:47):
has been incredibly valuable to this staff and it would
it would really hurt to lose him. Outside of him, though,
I think it'd be Chris Banjo. He's getting really tied
to Aaron Glenn's staff as a likely special teams coordinator
there with the Jets. You know that that one sucks
because it seems like it's either going to be him
or Rizzy for the Broncos Special Teams coordinator job, So
(07:11):
that would kind of leave the Broncos with only one
of their their ideal options. Uh. That said, it seems
like they're pretty much a shoe in to get Rizzy,
and Rizzy is their number one overall option. So I'm
not overly worried about Banjo leaving more more than anything
good on him. Glad he's uh, you know, taking a
step forward in his coaching career.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
I guess yeah, no, absolutely, I think I think those
are the two that are most likely, Zach. You just
named them right there. Jim Leonard and then Chris Banjo
are the two most likely. Now beyond that, I would say,
you know, Van Choseph is obviously taken head coaching interviews.
There's just not a lot of jobs left. We've gotten
hires and a lot of them through this time. Now,
(07:55):
after the Jaguars fired Blockade, do you do you think
think do you think that they now reset and they're like, Okay,
all the options are available. We have to recenter ourselves,
we have to figure this out. Or is it even
still Robert Sala, who I heard was their thirty third
(08:16):
option after the other two turn down the job. Did
you still think that Robert Sala is still at or
is it kind of a reset?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I think it's a little little column, a little colum
b you know, like, not all the options are on
the table for them because they shot themselves in the
foot and now they're top two. Then Johnson and Liam
Cohen have removed themselves from the table, you know, So
that's one element of that. I think. On the other side,
it is a reset because before you were looking for
(08:50):
head coach candidates to kind of have this arranged marriage
with a GM. Now you're looking for a head coach
and GM to come in together, which also, again, this
sucks because if they just made this very obvious right
decision four weeks ago. I think Ben Johnson very well.
Maybe the Daguars, I agree, because the Bears, the Bears
(09:12):
big thing was they had the quarterback, the Raiders big thing.
It was surprising that he was attracted there, and then
it came out, well he likes them because they've got
an owner that's willing to spend. Mark Davis isn't. He's
fairly cash poor relative to the other owners. But he's
willing to spend reinvest the profits from the team into
the team, and he felt like he could maybe get
(09:32):
some patience there. That one always seemed more murky than
Shad Cohn, who is constantly spending money on the Jags
and his patient to a fall. So if he wanted,
you know, like money, power. Oh, Also, the big thing
in Las Vegas. The main reason I shouldn't go lost
over this was the fact he'd get to pick his
own GM. So if the Jags just made this right
decision from the jump, he'd have the money he wanted,
(09:54):
the power he wanted, the patients he wanted, and a
liyable answer at quarterback, Liam Cohen. I think if Balki's
not involved, Liam Cohen probably keeps in the mix. So
now they they're onto maybe option three. But Robert Sala,
what GM are you bringing in with him? I mean,
(10:14):
maybe Joe Douglas if you want to give Joe Douglas
another bite of the apple. But he had a lot
of missuses in New York. I don't I don't know
about Robert Saala's other GMing connections. So is he a
guy you want to bring in when you know I
think it's one thing to like Robert Saul is kind
of desperate for a coaching opportunity now, or a head
(10:35):
coaching opportunity, He's going to be hard pressed. Yeah, so
you can kind of force that arranged marriage. Whereas you know,
now you're you want a head coach to kind of
be a figurehead of the whole operation, more like a
Sean Payton type, because he's kind of going to be
picking who the GM is that he's going to be
working with, and he's probably going to be the final
(10:56):
shot caller there. I don't know what. I don't know
what direction the Jacks are gonna go. Now, maybe it
is Vance Joseph. I would not take that off the
table because to your question, I think it is a
hard reset at this point.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
What is the one I'm forgetting his name right now?
The Broncos had an assistant to George Payton interview for
the movie Moogie, So I'm thinking that in a situation
right like, this is all hypothetical, This is all just
I was about to say the if Moogie were to
get Vance Joseph and Moogie could possibly be a pairing
(11:32):
for GM and head coach somewhere. All pretty much all
the options are off the table. As we just mentioned,
it's Vegas and Jacksonville still left waiting to hiring head coaches.
It sounds like Vegas kind of has their list going now.
I brought up to Blockie point because they fired him.
I don't know what happens. I don't even know if
Salah is still their third option anymore. Right, how much
(11:55):
input did the former GM have in Sala being third
option and now he's gone, So I don't know. I
don't know where what the situation is there. I just
maybe maybe Vance Joseph is one another thing is Okay,
let's say Vanchose goes, who's an offensive coordinator for Vance Joseph.
I would look at Davis Webb for the Broncos quarterback coach. Right,
(12:19):
do you think Davis Webb is deserving of an offensive
coordinator positions act?
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yeah, I mean the biggest thing in the NFL is
cultivating the quarterback position, and Davis Webb, you know, limited
a sample here, but it looks like he's pretty strong
at doing that. What we've seen from bo Nicks I
think is really uh promising again, and no one else
in the NFL really had the faith in him that
(12:46):
this Bronco staff had in him, and they've been really
proven right so far. He's incredibly young. I think he's
like not even thirty five, so he's he's way younger
than he even like a Sean McVay type was when
McVeigh got his Rams gig. But you know, I think
offensive coordinator is going to be around the corner. I
(13:08):
think the teams probably want to see one more year
from him, because again, he is just such a young coach.
But I think next year, if things, if the Broncos
stay on an upward trajectory and the AFC is going
to be tough for next year. It was kind of
a down year in the AFC with the Dolphins and
the Bengals and then the Jags just falling off a cliff.
(13:32):
But if they go ten and seven again and then
the offense takes a big step forward and they're more
like a top tennis offense instead of a top sixteen offense,
then I think there's a great chance he gets hired away.
I think he's a year off, though he's still pretty great.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
He is very young. I mean, this quarterback coach job
was his first coaching job in the NFL and he
just got it when Sean Payton was hired. That was
his first NFL coaching jop so he has a little
bit to go. I think that's all I have on
my list. I mean all honorably mentioned. David Shaw, who
is a personnel executive with the Broncos. I could see
(14:10):
him try to get into coaching realm. I have a
hard time seeing him get into the personnel executive roles
right now. He has so much experience in coaching. This
last year was his first year as an NFL kind
of executive type role. GM like would be the next
roll up type of thing. He's not ready for that.
(14:31):
I would look at him as a coach somewhere. It's
just probably not going to happen for him this offseason.
I think he's still going to be a bronco in
my opinion, unless you wanted to make the jump back
to college football, that would be very possible.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I fully agree. I will say though, you know, the
college coaches operate a lot like a GM, you know,
an NFL GM, And I do wonder maybe this is
the path he's going down now at this point in
his career. I legitimately don't know I haven't seen a
quote from him either direction, but if he is going
down the personnel route, you know, Moogie, I think is
a more logical tie for Vance Joseph just because he's
(15:07):
higher ranking member. He's the assistant GM. But David Shaw
as another member of that the Broncos front office that's
well regarded. I wondered if he could maybe be the
pairing with fansters. I'd say that's way less likely. Yeah,
that's one that if it came to fruition, the Broncos
would not get two compensatory third rounders. They would get
(15:28):
four compensatory third rounds. That would be game changing for
their outlook. So hopefully the Raiders do that.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Shout out to the Raiders. I mean, man, tom Brady
joined the Raiders. I grew up hating Tom Brady. It
only makes sense say he's a Raider now. Man, it's
bad news over there. All right, let's move into the
main topic of the show today, which is the biggest
needs this offseason. I think we're gonna lightly touch on
who could fill some of these roles as well. We're
(15:57):
gonna go with offense today, and we have three positions.
I first wanted to start off with running back Zach
how big of a need is running back to this
Broncos team, Like, I thought it was atrocious this last year.
Say you, what do you have to say about that?
Speaker 2 (16:11):
I think it's the biggest need. I think the tight
end room is worse. I think running back is more
important for this team taking the next step. The foundation
is there for the Broncos to be a really great
rushing offense. It's annoying, Like it's crazy to say, and
I know everyone got mad when this was alluded to
(16:34):
in the past during the regular season, but the bones
of like not only a good run game, but like
a great run gamer. There. The Broncos have a lot
of overlap with the twenty twenty four Broncos, That is,
with the twenty twenty three Philadelphia Eagles, where you have
this really great offensive line that's opening some stuff up
for your running backs and they're just not getting the
(16:57):
most out of it. They're not getting what they should
be out of it. Now, there's not a Saquon Barkley
out there, There's not a Derrick Henry out there in
this cycle. So I don't think you'll see that ridiculous leap.
But this is a rushing attack that they are eleventh
in the NFL in yards before contact per attempt. If
(17:17):
you isolate it to running backs, just running back carries,
there's sixth in the NFL in yards before contact per attempt.
So what does that tell you. It's blocked up well,
which is one offensive line execution. But to the scheming, right,
if it's a bad scheme, if it's drawn up that
on the whiteboard and it doesn't make any sense, doesn't
really matter. If the players are great, it's not going
(17:40):
to be a successful play. Consistently. Broncos ranked ninth in
a rushing success rate or sorry, eleventh in rushing success rate.
So they're a top third third of the league run game.
When you just isolate offensive line kind of and the
scheming of it, all that potential is there. Now when
(18:01):
you isolate the running backs, you get the exact opposite story.
They're thirtieth out of thirty two teams in yards after
contact per attempt. Javonte Williams ranks dead last in the
NFL among all running backs in yards after contact per attempt.
Remember that was his whole thing, right, Javonte Williams getting
yards after contact last in the NFL. Forty one to
(18:23):
forty one. He is fourth worst in EPA per attempt,
that's thirty thirty eighth rather out of forty one. He
is fortieth second worst in rushing yards over expectation per attempt.
So that's three big metrics that attempt to isolate the
running back. Each of them are telling you that this
(18:43):
is one of the three worst running backs in the
sport right now, sorry, four worst running backs in the
sport right now. I mean, that's an incredibly damaging thing.
And again, the Broncos top third of the NFL run
game ultimately in terms of success rate. I think even
in terms of VPA their top twenty ish, despite these
(19:04):
running backs shooting the run game in the foot very regularly.
Sometimes these NFL problems are very complicated and it's a
lot of different moving parts. I really think this one
is simple. Upgrading center, I think would be nice. That
would definitely help. The running backs are really bad. This
was the worst running back room in the NFL last year.
(19:26):
There was a lot there for them to gobble up
if they were capable of doing it, but they squandered
those opportunities and as a result, the Broncos run game
was lackluster. As you go into year two and things
are going to get tougher for Bonix and year two,
his defenses now know his strengths and weaknesses. He's going
to get game planned for a little more. He's going
(19:47):
to be forced to play left handed. Some you don't
want to do to him what the Texans did to
c J. Stroud this past year when CJ. Stroud didn't
have a run game or a line he could kind
of fall back on, or a running back he could
fall back on when Joe Mixon was injured. This class
is loaded with dudes. If the Broncos have a bad
(20:08):
running back room next year, it'll be embarrassing. There's so
many avenues to fixing it this offseason.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yeah, there really is. You hit the nail on the
head in a lot of aspects. Javonte Williams game was
built upon yards after contact. That was his game even
coming out of college. Go back and read some of
the scatting reports on Javonte Williams. No one was sitting
(20:34):
there being like Javante Williams has great vision. Matter of fact,
that was in the negative column of Javonte Williams. So okay,
So now I'm taking away a player's ability to break
tackles and make stuff happen in that fashion. And I'm
also still giving him that negative of Okay, he doesn't
have great vision. It's just hard to run the football
(20:56):
when we're talking about that football player, like that's tough.
And then okay, we could go up and down the
wrestle out here. Julian McLoughlin very one trick, pony ish right,
good vision, fast, kind of electric, not the greatest. He's
not gonna fall forward on many runs. He's a tel
(21:16):
in a lot of aspects. He can't catch the botto
of the backfield often, he's not running complex routes out
of the backfield often. And then uh, he's not blocking
literally at all. Okay, Otter g Estimate he barely played
this year for a plethora of reasons, and even to him,
I thank you for what was that for the playoff game?
(21:37):
Just wanted to add down there like the barely played
and then in the biggest spot they were like healthy
scratch Yeah, and Estimate has a role. I think it's
just not anywhere near lead back. It's nowhere near that, right,
I don't he's not ready as a pass blocker. Yet,
which is something that no. I mean, people are arguing
up and down the timeline about that today. I don't
(21:59):
know what people are looking at. He's big, he has
the capabilities to pass Blackwell, pass bro He's just not
picking up his assignment right and that's probably part of
the reason why he was mentioned in that playoff game.
So the Broncos running back situation, all of them are
replaceable level. I think you could go into this offseason.
I'm writing an article. It's coming out very soon. I
(22:22):
sent it to Zach tonight for editing. I just finished it. Yea,
that's out this weekend.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Okay, yeah, I'll get it out this weekend. I'll try
and do tomorrow and for or Friday, but we'll see.
I can get that.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
If you want the article, tweet at Zach Seegers.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yeah yeah, tweet pound out my door, get the torches
getting get it out.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I don't know, but I have an article coming out
on draft eligible running backs. I did my top eight.
I watched about twelve thirteen something like that different running backs.
All the popular names I heard, all of were solid,
all of them were definitely draftable, and most of them
were upgrades on what the Broncos would have this year.
(23:07):
So I'm excited to put that article out. I hope
everyone checks that out. I just think this is one
of the Broncos' biggest needs. If you can transform this
run game, the Broncos offense would be a ton better.
This is an offense that I think is going to
thrive staying ahead of the sticks consistently, and how you
do that is with an effective run game. And they're
gonna have ample opportunity to this offseason. So I'm excited
(23:29):
for it.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah. Same, and really quick, Joey tell us about some
of the draft options, because because the veteran options are
not that great, we've gone over the whole or the
need and why the Broncos need to address it. Some
of the options to fill it veteran ones. I'll touch
(23:52):
on it quick because I don't think there's that many
that are exciting. You've got Aaron Jones and Naji Harris
those area with the big name options, but I just
I don't think that's the route you want to go.
Aaron Jones was fine this past year, but Minnesota's run
game was pretty dang rough and he was a big
(24:14):
part of that. For most of the season Naji Harris.
I don't think he's lived up to his first round
billion at all. I think you're drafting or I think
you'd be signing him because of his twenty four to
seven recruiting score, which seems like a questionable reason to
sign a guy at age twenty seven. And then Nick Chubb.
I saw some hype for Nick Chubb to the Broncos today.
(24:36):
I mean, what are we talking about here? The guy
has had had his leg snapped in half the wrong
way at thirty, then had ended this season with a
broken foot. Oh and I mean he didn't qualify for
those Javonte Williams metrics when I was, you know, rattling
off rushing yards over expectation, and you know, he didn't
(24:56):
reach the minifying qualified, minimal, qualif fine factors to be
among those forty one backs. But he's worse than Javonte
Williams and all those numbers, so he'd be a downgrade.
I don't know. The idea that he would be fixing
any of the problems is bonkers to me. I mean,
if we can travel back in time to twenty twenty
(25:17):
one to sign me up, but otherwise, no, thank you.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
I'll give you a replacement for like a Nick Chubb
or Javonte Williams. That type of running back. I think
everyone knows about him, and it's Camp Scataboo, the Arizona
State running back. You even mentioned Najie Harris. I think
if you're looking for that type of guy, Camp Scataboo,
if we're not talking about the Omarion Hampdens of the world,
who you might have to take in that first round pick.
(25:43):
I could definitely see him going the first round at
the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Scattaboo's got crazy contact balance.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Crazy contact balance. He's huge. I think he's like five
ten two twenty five big back, runs low to the ground,
shoulders in front of him, delivers the hit. I think
the most interesting part about him is he's usually when
you're talking about running backs like him, all right, I'm
(26:11):
describing this big, bruising type of running back. You're talking
about a guy, Okay, we definitely need to get him
in a gap power system and we're running him up
the middle every single time. Think Scattaboo's a little more interesting.
I think he almost I would prefer him to run
in kind of like an inside zone type of system.
(26:33):
His vision is terrific. I think he finds the cutback
lane consistently. He weaves in and out of his lineman.
He's patient, he sets those blockers up. I also think
he's a really good receiver. He almost had six hundred
yards receiving this last year for Arizona State. He has
solid hands, can run all of the traditional routes out
of the backfield that you're looking for your running back.
(26:54):
He's a good player, really good player.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Yeah, what I saw from him in the playoffs, and
I haven'tudi them like you have, It's really exciting from
what I saw now. I feel like most of our
audience will be familiar with Skataboo, just because again he
got so much hype, you know, with the conference championships
and then the college football playoff all that. Some of
the heightsmen talked too, Amari and Hampton. I know you're
(27:19):
a big fan of his. I know you kind of
talked about him being maybe the higher tier version of
camp Scattaby, maybe a first round option. But I don't
think the Broncos are going to shy away from drafting
a running back in the first round. If they fall
in love with a guy. What could Broncos country expect
from Amari and.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Hampton ridiculous contact balance. A lot of people, Broncos fans
at least, I've seen a lot of people be like, Oh,
we don't need another jamonte On, guys, we need to
stop the helmet scouting. That never has made sense. It
never does it. So if amar On Hampton went to
see you, we'd like him all of a sudden, stop it.
We're not doing all of that makes no sense at all,
(27:59):
but ridiculou this contact balance. I think he's ready day
one as a third down back as well. I think
he can play in those obvious passing situations. He's an
asset in the passing game, and unlike another UNC running
back on the Broncos right now, has really good vision
as well. He runs super angry, has really good vision,
(28:19):
finds the correct hole, can press the mesh point really well,
cut back find holes on the opposite side. He's an
awesome running back. Hint for my article tomorrow. He's in
my opinion, the second best running back in this class,
over Caleb Johnson, over all these other guys in this class.
Though Marion Hampton is really ridiculous, he would he would
(28:41):
reinvent this Bronco's running game very quick. If he ends
up in blue and orange next year.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Now, who do you think just put yourself in George
Peyton's shoes for a minute. And we're very early in
this process. We don't know where really guys will go,
but right now, based on kind of what we think,
what running back you think is kind of the best
bang for your your buck? Or is there a guy
you're hoping the Broncos end up with where not necessarily
the best guy, But man, I think this fit makes
(29:08):
so much sense. It's it's right in the sweet spot.
For example, gunner Helm, I think you know, you might
think some tight end prospects are better than gutter Heelm,
but you're like, hey, I think gutner Helm's ninety five
percent of those guys, ninety percent of those guys, and
I can get them in round three? Is there a
version of that for you at running back?
Speaker 1 (29:26):
For me, it would be I don't know about round three.
Maybe it's round three, maybe it's round two. You never
know what these running backs, and especially in such a
stacked class, Zach, It's it's very confusing. Like I was
texting you, I was like Man, I'm having a hard
time stacking these guys up on my list because I
feel like I'm just picking the style I like, that's
(29:48):
how that is, how stacked that group is a guy
that would make a lot of sense though for Sean Payton,
in my opinion, is Devin Neil from Kansas. That's a
dude that he's not to that level, but similar play style,
like aesthetically archetype wise to like an Alvin Kamara. The
(30:09):
balance specifically is something Alvin Kamara was always known as
the balance guy. Like, Okay, he wasn't gonna deliver the hit,
but man, could he absorb contact bounce off of a guy?
The guy could chop his legs out from under him. Wow,
how is he still on his feet? You know? That's
what I kind of see in Devin Neil, along with
being a plus in the passing game as well. We
(30:32):
all know, I mean everyone sat here and watched it
on our We're all Broncos fans here at the shat.
Everyone knows there's a lot of complaining about how many
screens man he throws any screens that Devin Neil will
be a huge asset in the screen games, as was
Alvin Kamara. Devin Neil would make a Neil would make
a ton of sense for the Broncos man. I think
(30:54):
that's a guy everyone should circle underline all of.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
That, that name and one last vet all throw out
there if the Broncos want to upgrade on Julia McLoughlin
on that role in their room. Ty Johnson, the guy
who caught that crazy touchdown in the playoffs for the Bills.
He's an upcoming free agent. I think there's a very
good chance the Bills let him walk. You want to
talk about maybe maximizing what you're getting out of the
(31:19):
screen game a bit more, he'd be another good option
for that.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Yeah, Ty Johnson was vital in that. I mean, James
Cook was known for having really good hands and being
a receiver type of back out of Georgia. But Ty
Johnson is clearly even better because he took that role
from James Cook. James Cook is kind of their runner,
and Ty Johnson took that third down role as a
receiver and as a pass blocker even for that team.
(31:45):
So Ty Johnson's a good call. He'd make a ton
of sense in the Broncos offense. The next position I
want to hop twosach is tight end. Tight end I
think was probably, pound for pound, their weakest position this
year for the Broncos. Really sucked at it.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Yes, terrible. I mean, I mean Adam Troutman is not
starting for any other team in the league.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
I think, Yeah, I think that's fair. I don't think
he is either. He just he's a zero in the
past game and he's a cool blocker, so I would
describe him. He's not even like elite.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Yeah, it's it's uh yeah, he's really not good. I mean,
uh yeah, it's it's crazy how unproductive he's been as
a tight end. Like we joke about the revolving door
of generic tight ends the Broncos have had in the
last decade, and even amongst that really unimpressive crop, he
stands out as especially unimpressive. When you look at the numbers. It's,
(32:44):
uh yeah, it's it's I don't get it, man, I
don't get He's like, they need to find it a
little more projuice there. Whether it be a vet, whether
it be a draft pick, you just you have to
uh yeah, you.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Have to find something there. I agree with you. I
think the Broncos could upgrade at both in line and
move tight end, both of them. For a lot of
people like tying in all the tight ends together. Those
are two different positions, inline tight end and move tight end.
The move tight end is going to be your more
athletic one. I can throw him in the slot in
the Broncos case, sometimes I can. I'm moving him around
(33:21):
right like I'm doing different stuff from him. He's off
the line of scrimmage. My inline tight end is more
of what we're talking about with Adam Troutman. He's gonna
do a lot more of the dirty work. He's your
Daniel Graham. You're right, This is the way I would
put it for Broncos fans. Your inline tight end is
your Daniel Graham. Your move tight end is your Tony
Schefter Tony Scheffler. That that's the difference, right, We need both.
(33:46):
I would say we could. We could do both. We
can upgrade on either of those or both in the
same offseason. I'm looking at. Is there anyone in free agency, Zach,
I know we were talking before the show. Jawan Johnson
was the guy you were thinking about. Does that make
sense for you as a move tight end?
Speaker 2 (34:06):
I think Juwan Johnson is the name to watch and
I think that's a name the Bronco should absolutely go
out and get. They're gonna have some resources this offseason
to to sign some veterans. A swing on a T.
Higgins might be tough, or you know some of those
really expensive lanes to be shopping in. Well we'll get
into that in a bit, but there's you know, they
(34:31):
have the room to actually make some moves this year,
which they haven't really since the Russell Wilson trade. The
problem is there's just not great options out there. I
think Juwan Johnson is comfortably the best one pretty good receiver.
Uh here's a fun little Jawan Johnson said for you.
In each of his three seasons in the NFL at
(34:51):
tight end, he has had more for see way, let
me make sure this's right. Oh, he's just short. So
his least productive sea as an NFL receiver was thirty
seven receptions for three hundred and sixty eight yards and
four touchdowns Adam Troutman during his entire Denver Broncos tenure,
(35:12):
which is two seasons, so double the length of time.
Just to be clear, thirty five receptions. That's three more
for three hundred and ninety two yards. It's like thirty
more and where why can't I not find touchdowns all
of a sudden and not many touchdowns?
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Zero touchdowns?
Speaker 2 (35:31):
He must have not caught a single touchdown with the
Denver Broncos. I don't see him in his No, that don't.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
I can't remember any off the top of my head.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
I was. I was looking at his advanced box score
on a Pro Football Records for a second, excuse me.
And five touchdowns during his entire Bronco tenure.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
I don't remember the trout.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
His other two seasons. He's over five hundred yards, he's
got several receiving touchdowns. While you're developing an option, because
I do bet they draft someone at some point in
this year's class. But if it's not Tyler Warren, that
guy's probably not going to be ready to plug and
play and immediately change that position. And guess what that
position needs to change immediately. Yes, they need a long
(36:15):
term solution too, but it also needs to change right now.
Jawan Johnson knows the offense well, knows what it will
be asked if him was brought in originally by Sean
Payton has blossomed into his tight end role, and I
think would be a great addition for bo Nicks to have.
We always hear about how a tight end is a
quarterback safety blanket. Boonis didn't have a safety blanket this
(36:38):
past year. Johnson would provide.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
That didn't at all, did not at all, no athleticism,
no juice out of that group, and then really not
even that great of blocking out of that.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Group, and really quick, sorry, I know I went for
a while. There's not any other great options out there
is the other thing, Like, if you want to move
tight end, your other best options are you know, thirty
year old Mike that's probably it. Tyler Conklin is kind
of like a do it all guy, but he's not
(37:07):
overly exciting. And then your best options for like a
true blocking tight end. Do you want the forty one
year old version of Mercedes Lewis.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Do you want soccer from Mercedes Lewis I've won?
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Or how about the thirty one year old version of
Pharaoh Brown or the thirty two year old version of
MOLEI Cox. Like there's just not.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Damn mo Alie Cox is that old? I mean, yeah,
not that many Mercedes Lewis. Mad He's had He's been
the extra offensive lineman. To a lot of teams in
the NFL through his career. Ever since those Jacksonville days,
people don't remember. I feel like he was playing with
Maurice Shoes Drew. I feel like he was playing with
(37:49):
David Gerard. I feel like he's been playing forever Mercedes Lewis.
As far as the draft goes, I mean, everyone in
broadcast country knows Kyler Warren. He's an inline type of guy.
I think he does. I think he we overstate some
aspects of him. Zach on the timeline. He is special
(38:10):
in a lot of areas, I think specifically in space.
Sometimes I'm looking at him and I'm like, man, he
looks like Gronk running over that guy or stiff arming
that guy, or whatever the case may be. The party.
We we overstate some things about him. He does need
some work as a blocker, though, Like I think that
(38:31):
is something that needs to be said. We need that
people are watching the highlights. He does have a lot
of highlight level blocks. He yes, the potential is there
as a blocker. He does need refinement his technique, though,
I don't think he comes in day one and is
a huge asset in the run game. He whiffs, he
causes negative plays sometimes for that, and then go along
(38:54):
with that, he's not the greatest route runner. What he
is really great at, though, is boxing defenders out and
high pointing the football. So yeah, anyways, I'm off of
that tangent. I've just been arguing with people about that.
It's it's really good tight end class otherwise, and I
like Warren by the way, I have to throw that
(39:15):
out there. I just I don't think he's that brock
Bowers level tight end everyone level tight end prospect that
everyone else is putting out there closer the level is
an option Gunn as a move tight end. Gunner Helm
is an option is kind of in between in line
and move tight end. There's a lot of different tight
end options in this class Ferguson from Oregon Fan and
(39:39):
people like, there's a lot. Joe Brewer says, Mark Andrews.
Maybe I saw Frankie throw this out on the timeline
as well. What do you have to say about that,
zex Seegers.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
I think there's a very solid chance of it happening,
you know, not uh uh, maybe what I would most
want to see happen. But I think it's a solid
option for the vet move like I was saying, they
needed to change right away. Mark Andrews would help it
change right away. The Ravens are close to having to
(40:13):
make a decision on Mark Andrews versus Isaiah Likely, and
I think understandably they're gonna go Isaiah Likely there just
he's the younger guy. Andrews is about to turn thirty
and you know, has not had his best seasons as
of play. It's also dealt with a lot of injuries
over the course of his career, and they can free
up a lot of money by trading him for the Broncos.
(40:36):
It would also make a lot of sense. He would
be making just under six million dollars next year, which
would be really cheap for a tight end. Yeah, a
good value move. You know, it's not gonna be the
long term solution, but it'll give you a you know what,
(40:57):
top fifteen to twenty tight end in the league, which
is better than they've had in a long, long, long time,
and you can probably get him for pretty cheap. The
most expensive part of that transaction is going to be
whatever pick you give up for him, which one would figure,
you know, is at most the third right, So I
think that would be very appealing to the Broncos.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Yeah, no, that would make sense. I mean it would
be a huge upgrade right away. I think a lot
of people are gonna have pushback because of the game
he had recently and that was atrocious. I feel bad
for Ravens fans that was so bad. But he would
be a massive upgrade for the Broncos. It would make sense.
I would be all here for it. I would like
(41:40):
it if they made a move like that. I think
a trade for a tight end that you know was
good makes sense. It does make sense. Usually when you
draft these rookie tight ends, it takes a little bit
for them to get into the speed of the NFL.
That's one of the slower developing positions in the league.
So trading for one does make sense. Next position does
(42:02):
Zach wide receiver. This is a position you wanted to
touch on. I feel like they need like at alpha one,
That's what I feel like they need in this group.
I think Courtland Sutton is nice to have. I think
Marvin Mims is nice to have. I think they're kind
of struggling in their depth past that a little bit.
(42:23):
But I think I think more than anything, you need
that alpha wide receiver one or a guy that can
slide into that Z position specifically.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
I fully agree, and I I don't think that guy
is out there in this class anywhere. I don't think
some other maybe maybe maybe it is a T Higg.
It's actually before I go down that rabbit hole. Do
you want to grab the super chat quick?
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Yeah? For sure, Kodiak Broncos podcast shout out to you.
I mean, if anyone wants to subscribe to that podcast,
make sure you're doing it. I'm convinced the Broncos wight
use a round one pick on tight end Warren does
in the last past Indy at fourteen in industry macks
now and Leveland's inconsistent year due to quarterbacks last scheme
may have them out of round one. What do you
got to say about that, Zach?
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Yeah, I don't know if I'd go as far as
to say convinced. We're so early and the Broncos needs
are so wide ranging that I'm not convinced in any
direction right now.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
Now.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
Also, industry mocks this early. I just don't think are
overly reliable. We see so much shifting over these next
two months, and some of that skuys who right now
we expect to be late first rounders or second rounders
climbing up twenty thirty spots, and then sometimes it's skys
we project to go high, falling twenty thirty spots, and
then there's always you know, the draft night surprises where
(43:49):
Michael Pennix goes way earlier than we think are I'm
trying to think of like a classic fall right now,
like Miles Jack, you know, falls out of the first
round when everyone thought he was going to be a
top pick, So that that'd be my one thing I
would agree with him. I don't think it's super likely.
I there's a lot of other avenues for the Broncos
(44:13):
to address tight end this year that I think just
make more sense. It's a really strong tight end class.
They can you know, address it in the middle rounds.
They could sign a Juwan Johnson. I think Kodyak's probably
going to be right because I would bet you know,
I would bet against the Broncos drafting a running back
in the first round too, right, I think it's far
(44:33):
more likely that they draft a different position, like I
would take the field over them drafting running back. That said,
I still think it's very probable that they take a
running back in the first round, if Ashton Genty falls
to them, or they fall in love with a Hampton
or a Caleb Johnson or whatever. So that's what I
think about. That kind of a wishy washy non answer,
but I wouldn't count them out of anything right now.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
I gotta agree with codyak broncos I'm not gonna lie
with you. Go ahead, I think. I mean, I could
see the appeal with Warren and specific I could also
see the appeal maybe Sean Payton has with Levland in
the first round. I'm just trying to figure out. I
(45:18):
think you have to be a really elite tight end
to be considered in this number round one selection to
get your ROI return on investment on a round one
tight end like the run of the mill seven hundred
yards or six hundred yards. It's not even run of
the mill that's really good for a tight end. If
you get six hundred and seven hundred yards in the
(45:39):
first round, or if you get six hundred and seven
yard hundred yards from your tight end, that's a damn
good season for your tight end. Now would I rather
want that or a wide receiver that could get me
one thousand yards in the first round, right, because that's
the kind of equivalent there. Really good wide receivers give
me a thousand yards, or really good tight ends probably
give me six hundred seven hundred yards. I can count
(46:02):
the elite tight ends on one hand. So it takes.
It takes a really special prospect here. And that's why
I was so convinced with Bowers, because I watched him
and I was like, Wow, this guy's ridiculous. I would
draft him if I were the Broncos. I don't see
that guy in this class. I would take advantage of
the depth, and I would take advantage of the niche
(46:24):
those depth pieces offer me. There are good receiving pieces,
there are good blocking pieces, and I would take advantage
of that.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
Yeah, I fully agree. And on the investment point, the
thing about drafting certain positions high in the draft, a
lot of it is those first round salaries. Right If
whoever the Broncos draft is going to be making four
point five million dollars a year over their rookie deal.
And this isn't the end all be all, but it's
like it's something to kind of keep in mind. You know,
(46:57):
four point five million, that's like I'm trying to see
what Brandon Cooks is signing for at the very end
of his career. You know. So the bar for a
receiver to you know, even hit even let alone get
surplus value, is pretty low as opposed to you know,
a tight end making four million this year is like
(47:18):
John new Smith, who I'm pretty sure is in the
Pro Bowl for the Miami Dolphins this year. It's just
the cost for entry at the tight end position is
much lower than it is at wide receiver some of
these other ones. So the bar for the same thing
applies a running back, right, You can find a good
starting running back for four million dollars a year. So
(47:38):
to hit on a first round running back, they at
least have to be a good starter. That's the only
way you're getting near your return on investment for it
to really be a hit. Where Wow, what a great pick.
They've got to be a damn near superstar. You know.
That was the conversation surrounding Bijon in this draft, and
we'll hear it a lot with gent over these next
coming months too.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
Yeah, No, you're absolutely right. You are absolutely right. For me.
Getting back to the wide receiver point, we were talking
to before this about that, I don't see the option
available Zach to like get that wide receiver one type.
I do think like Mbecca Umbuka from Ohio State would
(48:21):
make a lot of sense here as a guy that
can block his butt off. He's really good at those
crossing routes across the Middle East, tough as nails and
he yeah, he's an actual seat. And then you can
move him to the slot as well, where he blocks
blocks his butt off too closer to the line of
scrimmage and you can kind of use him as your
(48:42):
z Okay, we don't want little Jordan Humphrey on the
field anymore. We can put him in the slot as
your blocker guy right there. That would make sense as well.
Outside of that, Travis Hunter is the one guy that
I'm like convinced is a wide receiver one in this class.
Ted McMillan is a guy I would watch out for
the possibility burden if the Broncos were the draft him.
(49:05):
I imagine him being more He's a Marvin Mims type
role than anything else. So I don't think that makes sense.
I don't know, is there anybody in free agency that
you're considering they're out wide receivers act.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
You know, I think we got to talk about the
T Higgins of it all, and I love the names
you highlighted there in the draft. I would say this
to Broncos country. Only one team is going to win
the T Higgins sweepstakes. Like Green Bay, for example, a
team that we might not think of as having like
a serious wide receiver need, they're having T Higgins talks
right now because even though they have a lot of
(49:40):
deep receivers, they're looking for that alpha guy too, and
they think that maybe T Higgins could be that. There's
a lot of teams I just intentionally pulled like a
kind of obscure one that are going to be looking
for T Higgins services this year. The Patriots, I think
are probably the most likely candidate. They have comfortably over
one hundred million dollars in cap space. They've got very
(50:01):
few places to spend it. I would I think they
are the heavy favorite to land T Higgins, and the
Broncos just frankly can't win a spending war against the
Patriots if the Patriots want to win that war. So
I just one team is going to win this, and
whichever team does win, it is probably going to be
signing him on a bad deal, something that we haven't
(50:24):
seen a lot of in the NFL recently. Credit to
Robert Mays for pointing this out, but I think it's
a good point. Is like the Juwan James or the
Menelik Watson type contracts where it's like, oh, this guy
was like kind of okay at this other spot, but
we're so desperate for an answer, We're going to pay
him at the top of the market to come to
(50:44):
our team and try and fill that need in free
agency because maybe it could work out. Teams have gotten
a lot smarter about that. I think paying t Higgins
a Jamar Chase Ceedee Lamb level salary when he's gotten
to operate as the number two in an offense with
a perennial MVY candidate every single year of his career
is a big red flag. And that's not even mentioning
(51:05):
the fact that he has had a series of nagging
injuries over these past two seasons. These last two seasons
for him have been his most injury prone, and I
think he's an awesome talent. Like in a vacuum, I
would not be dogging him like this when the conversation
is do you want to pay him a Jamar Chase contract.
I mean, that's the bar we're going up to, and
(51:27):
I think he pales in comparison. I think the Broncos
would be much better off signing a guy like Chris
Godwin for probably half the price you would have to
sign Higgins too. Fits more with the Broncos need another
guy that fits. Sean Payton, blocks his ass off, tout
his nails. You worry about the injury some there, but
(51:48):
I would much rather take that roll of the dice
than That's the other thing with T Higgins. You're not
only giving him this big contract, It's going to be
a Russell Wilson type deal where you're locked in for
the foreseeable future. If it's a gamble that goes wrong
for you, it's gonna be very painful to get out of.
And the Broncos are just now getting out of, uh
that type of shit storm. I don't want them to
(52:10):
immediately dive right back in. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:13):
I'm more of the camp that in this offseason free
agency wise and just moving off just to you know,
uh his final no here. I'm more of the camp
that I would be looking to sign, you know, not
small deals, maybe starter level deals, but not huge deals.
I'm not going out there signing huge deals this offseason.
Speaker 2 (52:34):
I got one for you. This is a great sleeper.
I think that because people are talking about Darius Layton too.
I think he fits there. A couple of sleepers that
I haven't heard mentioned that I think kind of makes sense.
These are specifically litl Jordan Humphrey upgrades. I know he's
been the bane of Broncos country's existence. That I picked
up a couple potential upgrades. How about this one?
Speaker 1 (52:56):
Matt Collins Mac Collins block his ass off, in your face,
borderline dirty, which heys. That's the type of player you
love to have on your team, hate to play against.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
With Sean Payton's defensive coordinator, it should be.
Speaker 1 (53:10):
Not red zone target, red zone target for sure. Matt Collins.
I remember the Raiders when he was on the Raiders.
They love to throw him those fade like just quick
fades in the head zone and you would catch him.
Not a bad one, not a bad one. Blocks his
butt off. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:30):
Yeah, so that's one. Uh, this one's a deeper cut.
I was looking at the list of free agents though,
and it really intrigued me, Like I have been a
bit of a fan of for a while. Nicholas Westbrook Akine,
this is a wow Titans, right, yeah, Titans, bigger body.
(53:51):
He had like twenty receptions this year in like eight touchdowns.
It was something ponkers like he had. There's a really bizarre.
Speaker 1 (54:03):
Twenty touchdown is the craziest stat line I've ever heard.
Speaker 2 (54:06):
Yeah, I want to make sure I get it exactly right,
but he just wild how they used him because he's
this big red zone body six to two hundred and
fifteen pounds. Yeah, thirty two catches, nine touchdowns this year.
He was their go to red zone guy on an
offense that really didn't have any quarterback help, and he
(54:29):
did really well in that role. Another big, physical receiver
could help in the block game, blocking game, and I
think he's offering you more as a pass catcher than
Matt Collins or Lili George Humfrey. I will say, I
know Sean Payne has this rep of not spending big
on wide receivers, and that's true. That's very generally only
(54:50):
had one big money guy. That doesn't mean he doesn't
invest it all in the position.
Speaker 1 (54:56):
Right, you draft them that room, it.
Speaker 2 (54:58):
Drafts them and then there have been veterans signings in
the past. Uh, let me see if I can pull
it up right now. I was just looking at it
earlier today. But you have to fill out that room somehow.
It's never the big guys, it's not the big splashes.
But I don't think the fact he's only paying the
Michael Thomases of the world means he won't sign uh uh,
(55:21):
you know, little Jeorde Humphrey to fill out the room.
Speaker 1 (55:23):
Well, we also saw Josh Reynolds this offseason.
Speaker 2 (55:27):
Also true, like what I'm talking about. I think I
agree that he probably won't sign T Higgins. That's not
his style. I think when we're having those conversations, it's
makes sense to bring up, Hey, this guy's not a
guy who's typically made those big swings at that position.
I don't think it'll preclude him from, you know, these
these more budget signings.
Speaker 1 (55:48):
Yeah, no, absolutely, everybody. I think that is it for
today's show. I appreciate everybody who sat here and listened
to us. Shout out to everybody in the chat, seriously,
Shout out to all of you. Shout out again to
Kodiak Broncos Podcast for the ten dollars in the super Chat.
Thank you so much. If you guys have any draft questions,
hit me up at LTB Underscore Showy if you have
(56:10):
any football just in general, Zach's a genius when it
comes down to the cap, when it comes down to writing,
when it comes down to a lot of different Broncos topics.
Make sure you guys are tweeting at Zach. I'm gonna
be happy to answer. I know Zach is as well.
We're gonna we're gonna try to be more consistent here
with more shows. Zach and I have some special content
we're trying to get going, something new for the channel.
(56:33):
I don't want to give any hints and I don't
want to make any fake promises either, So keep an
eye out for that. That's something we're trying to until
next time, guys
Speaker 2 (56:45):
Check out my job I was on
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Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.