November 24, 2024 • 51 mins
In the premiere episode of Let’s Talk Local, host Sarah Zubiate Bennett sits down with newly retired Assistant Police Chief Reuben Ramirez to reflect on his 30-year career with the Dallas Police Department. Together, they dive into the challenges facing the department, including one issue many might not expect. Later, the episode celebrates fresh beginnings with a spotlight on Boxed Bites in Preston Center—a must-visit for charcuterie lovers! Thanks for tuning in, and don’t forget to subscribe!
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Episode Transcript
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Sarah Zubiate Bennett (00:04):
There's a hidden challenge facing our
police officers and one that'srarely talked about but deeply
impacts their daily lives. I'mSarah zubiate Bennett, and I'm
thrilled to welcome you to thelaunch of Let's Talk Local.
Today, we're broadcasting fromour brand new studio with a very
special guest, retired assistantpolice chief of the Dallas
Police Department, ReubenRamirez. Together, we'll dive
(00:26):
into this very overlooked issueand what it really means for
those who serve and protect us.I'm excited to have you, and
Chief Ramirez here for our veryfirst episode. Don't forget to
like and subscribe to join us onthis journey.
Okay. 1st, you are our openinginterview for Let's Talk Local,
and so I am thrilled and honoredthat you're here. Your book goes
(00:49):
into extreme detail about life,life in service, and what that
looks like. You depicted yourexperiences in such a
vulnerable, perfectlydescriptive way. I was full of
many emotions. Crying. I wasfurious in some. I was happy in
(01:12):
others. So thank you for yourinvestment in this community.
You have recently retired. Canyou tell us the exact amount of
time that you spent serving as apolice officer and a chief?
Chief Reuben Ramirez (01:27):
So I did 29 years, with the Dallas Police
Department.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (01:31):
3 decades.
Chief Reuben Ramirez (01:31):
Almost 3 decades. Started at 22 years
old. I've been on the commandstaff for 8 years.
I was assistant chief for 4years, bureau chief over
criminal investigations bureau.I was the bureau chief over
tactical and special operations.And then most recently, I was
the bureau chief over all patroloperations at City of Dallas
before I retired 2 months ago.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (01:53):
That's right. And so you have 3 decades
worth of experience, and I havenot enough time to sit here and
ask, for more of your insight.Your wisdom is immense. And I
don't think I mean, I eveninterviewed the old police
chief, Eddie Garcia, who whom weall loved and who will be sorely
(02:14):
missed.
Chief Reuben Ramirez (02:15):
I'll tell you that I didn't know that I
was gonna retire.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (02:18):
You didn't?
Chief Reuben Ramirez (02:19):
No. The backstory is and you know this
from reading the book, but thebackstory is that chief Garcia,
Eddie Garcia tasked me withdoing an assessment of DPD,
after we had seen a series ofofficers, arrested for alcohol
related incidents. And and so weknew that there had to be
something bigger. So there'sthat this behavior was not just
our officers discarding the lawor or feeling that, you know,
(02:42):
they're just making this thisdecision to drive intoxicated.
There had to be something more,and so, went out to do an
assessment and through a seriesof different conversations
throughout the PD really forabout a month of of really
in-depth conversations about theresources that are available, if
they were being utilized, why orwhy not. I just I continue to
hear the same themes. Peoplewere not using the resources.
(03:05):
Very stoic police department,very hard in culture to be to be
really candid. And it it wasn'tuntil a one particular focus
group conversation where they itgot kinda heated about about
mental and emotional health, andand and as you can imagine, many
police officers don't wanna heara 2 star chief asking them about
their mental health. And and so,through that conversation, just
(03:27):
the the floodgates just openedup, and and officers started
sharing some of the mostdifficult parts of their job.
And the things that theymentioned involved exposure to
other people's tragedies
To other people's grief Otherpeople's sadness. They talked
about the sound of wailingmothers, and they talked about
contorted bodies at at fatalitycar crashes. They talked about
(03:50):
the awkward space at a suicidescene, and this is not what
mainstream America believes isaffecting police officers. But
yet, in one of the most marqueecities in the world, our men and
women are saying that these arethe things that cause me to not
sleep at night.
These are the things that areaffecting my mental and
emotional health. Andcoincidentally, the things that
they were mentioning were wereroutine in nature. These were
(04:12):
not the critical incidents whichwhich usually solicit some sort
of support services. These arethe routine calls. And so taking
this information, I just I itjust grabbed me, and I thought
how could we have missed this?How could this not be part of
the support system to to checkon our police officers when
(04:33):
they're going to these thesevery impactful, you know, sad,
grief ridden calls, and that'show we came up with the
checkpoint strategy. That's whywe started implementing this
this whole program, and when Istarted to see the results, when
I started to see SWAT operators,supervisors over SWAT standing
up and talking about theirdifficulties and their
challenges and encouraging ourmen and women to counseling, I
(04:56):
knew that we had somethingreally good here, and I wanted
to spread it. And I've been ableto see Fort Worth PD implement
this exact strategy. CharlotteMecklenburg PD implemented the
checkpoint strategy. Carrollton,Rockwall. I've seen it spread,
and I knew that, this was what Iwanted to be part of, and and
this is what I was meant to do.So I made the decision after
(05:16):
talking with Eddie Garcia andmade the decision that I would
transition after the summer. InSeptember, I officially parted
ways with DPD.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (05:25):
Oh my gosh. Well, I'm just grateful
that you're here. In November ofthe same year, I saw that you
and chief, Eddie Garcia wereawarded just recently. Can you
tell us a little bit about thoseawards? We received the, Shining
Star Award, for the developmentof this program. It's a big
(05:49):
honor. I mean, if there'sanything to, and Chief Garcia
will would would second this,but, you know, of all the
accomplishments that that thatthat you can have in a PD,
there's nothing greater thanthan building something that
would have a legacy of supportfor our men and women to give
them the opportunity to come tothis profession and actually
(06:11):
thrive here and and have achance to be the men and women
that we set out to be when wetook this profession is an
incredibly powerful thing, andwe're not done yet. We have we
have, many men and women whohave come forward around the
country requesting informationabout this program, and we
aren't gonna stop till we canbring the checkpoint strategy to
every police or first responderentity in the country and
(06:32):
beyond.
Looking at this book, you speakabout an initial moment in your
career along with a bunch ofother personal experiences that
inspired you to write your book.Would you mind telling us a
little bit about what all ofthose experiences together look
like?
Chief Reuben Ramirez (06:50):
I mean, this is what it's like to be a
police officer, an Americanpolice officer today. It is
filled with emotions. You know,I say in the book that policing
is a very emotional profession,arguably the most emotional
profession. And and it's becauseof those reasons. It's because
every day you are taking in somesort of sadness, some sort of
frustration, some sort ofdifficulty. And it's difficult,
(07:14):
on the minds of our young, veryimpressionable men and women,
public servant hearted men andwomen, to come in and consume
that amount of emotion. And Ithink, this book, I was able to
just capture, some of thoseemotions and put it in a in a
almost a manual that says,here's the blueprint to help the
(07:35):
future generations. If nothingelse, the future generations of
police, And then it's it'sequipped with anecdotally and
stories that are incrediblyrelatable. And as I travel the
country and present thisprogram, the the main thing I
hear is I had the exact sameexperience. I had a very similar
story.
When you open the book, the thefirst chapter does talk about, a
(07:56):
very difficult call that Ianswered a very young police
officer. The short version isthat, a man handed me his little
3 year old daughter that he hadfound floating in a swimming
pool. And, I talk about howdifficult it was to to sleep
after that call or or eat afterthat call. I didn't know why
that one call of all the calls,why that one call, I just
(08:19):
couldn't move away. I couldn'tmove past it.
This is what our men and womenare exposed to on a daily basis
and sometimes, far before even,you know, 4 years of of
exposures I had. So this is whatneeds to be brought to the
forefront in the discussionabout staffing, recruiting,
retention, paying benefits. Thisis part of the formula, and it
(08:41):
needs to to have a voice tied toit. It needs to to be, I think
that we need to bring attentionto it and and bring it out there
so people know what thatexperience is like. And then we
can talk about how it is that wecan recruit better and and
important just as importantly,retain.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (08:56):
Thank you so much for that. I was having
to hold back tears as you weretalking about that because this
was part of the reason why mywhy I was filled with fury
because and I, again, I knowthat you cannot comment on
whether you agreed or disagreedwith, the proposition that the
city passed. It's now lawProposition U. And so, an
(09:21):
incremental amount of newrevenue next year is going to be
allocated to the police, and itis something I am so grateful
for. Because as I hear peopletalking about, oh, you know, a
library or a park, and then Ithink about all of the sacrifice
(09:44):
that the police endure on adaily basis, I think to myself,
now that's just common senseWant versus need. Need. We need
to take care of our officers. Wemust. Your lives are endangered
every day, especially in Dallas.Everything that you do for our
(10:07):
community is of utmostimportance.
Your service impacts crime. AndI think now after this, next
question that I have for youregarding a horrific event that
everyone knows that took placeon July 7, 2016 that happened,
(10:27):
the conversations are much morematerial because we see what it
looks like to not have thepolice department appropriately
funded and taken care of. AndI'm very grateful that that's
changing. You touched upon theaftermath that settled into the
Dallas police departmentsurrounding the silence of the
horrific tragedy where 5 beliefpolice officers were shot in the
(10:51):
back and 7 others were woundedon July 7th, there was silence.
And you even wrote, I personallyrecall my oldest son who was 15
at the time calling merepeatedly while staying at his
grandmother's house and watchingthe event on TV. I finally
answered the phone and quicklytold him that I was okay and to
tell his mom that I would callthem back as soon as I could.
(11:13):
Can you describe the silencethat fell upon the officers at
DPD after this event andelaborate on what you wrote,
which was, but what is theeffect of knowing that the
emotional part is hardly evermentioned or addressed by the
media or your own department,does that also create an a
conditioning to not address ityourself because perhaps no one
(11:34):
else believes it's worthy ofaddressing?
Chief Reuben Ramirez (11:37):
At that particular time, there was a
reluctance of many police forcesto really talk about or
elaborate on the force that weuse that led to the death of a
suspect, even a suspect. Itwhether it was because the there
would still be some sort oflitigation tied around the case,
(11:58):
whether the case would have tobe prosecuted if there was a
defendant, in in the case. Forwhatever reason, there was a
reluctance to talk about thedetails of it. And I think as I
look back and did research after8 years now removed and even in
the writing of this book, therewere many police officers who
still wanted to talk about thatnight. They want to share what
(12:20):
it was that they experienced,and and really wanna understand
what their colleaguesexperienced as well.
There's many officers,particularly SWAT operators who
told me that here were some ofthe things they did, and they
saw other officers doing thingsthrough their peripheral. It was
very fast, but they would liketo know who those officers were,
and really get a a vantage pointfrom them or a perspective from
(12:42):
them. And for us in particularin Dallas, we we were just, we
were we weren't talking aboutit. And and then, you know, when
you combine that with, some ofthe reluctance of of maybe, you
know, even the media sourcestalking about what the the
details of of what our actionswere, it does condition your
police force to think, well, ifnobody's really talking about
(13:04):
this, maybe I shouldn't beeither. And and and, you know,
we have to be I think that, youknow, some of the understanding
of what the experience is to bea police officer is that we are
operating in a very thickculture, a very rich culture,
and there is a a sense of a herdmentality here.
We are we are doing what ourcolleagues are doing, and so
when we see other people nottalking about it including
(13:27):
whether it's, you know, thepublic, whether it's our command
staff or supervisors, we tend tothink that that's the direction
we need to go as well. And inthat particular case, and, I
will tell you speaking fromexperience, it did us a
disservice because as anassistant chief who was took
part in many, disciplinaryhearings of our officers who
(13:48):
were who had become the subjectof some sort of investigation.
And and when they cited some ofthe difficulties of their jobs
or the things that they werecarrying, they almost always
referenced that night. So therewas a lot of unhealed wounds as
a result of it. And I thinkthat, the awareness and the
discussion in a platform andvenue of their choosing would
(14:11):
have been beneficial. And Idon't think that many of our
police officers got theopportunity to do that, and I
think that that exists in alarge part throughout the
country as well.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (14:20):
You know, first responders are often seen
as the, very silent type. Notthe silent type, but they just
handle it internally as best asthey possibly can. How do
societal perceptions and theculture of silence that you've
often observed within emergencyservices specifically impact
(14:41):
their mental well-being?
Chief Reuben Ramirez (14:42):
Over the last 3 years, we've we've heard
more about wellness. This is avery popular subject throughout
the country whether, you know,post pandemic world, I think
brought a lot of attention tothat. I think in the police
world, when you looked at thepost George Floyd, protests and
marches, it was a it was a verydifficult space for for a lot of
(15:05):
police forces. I think theythere was a lot of attention
placed on them for misconductand behaviors that that were the
actions of of a few, but yet alot of police officers and
police departments got got kindagrouped into that.
And it appeared to be, from alot of, you know, from a lot of
(15:26):
police colleagues of mine, itappeared to be that we were
everyone was being kinda lumpedinto the group of the actions of
others and and and was what wasmost difficult was not
necessarily the scrutiny aboutabout the need for change and
really the examining of ofpractices. That wasn't the
bothersome part. What was reallybothersome to a lot of police
officers was they said, no onereally came to our rescue. No
(15:48):
one really defended us. No onereally stood up and said, what
well, let's hold on a secondhere. We shouldn't broad brush
this, and that was one of thethings that that bothered the or
took an emotional toll, onpolice forces. I think when you
combine that along with the theculture that really, you know,
for almost a 150 years in in ourcity of of evolution has always
(16:12):
had a difficulty of gettingthese these mental health and
support resources through thatcultural wall. No one ever
really tried anything different.We just we saw newer and newer
platforms, newer and newerapplications. There were more
modern and upgraded, therapycenters and rehab centers. There
was there was fantasticpsychiatrists and clinicians,
(16:35):
but not a lot of focus oremphasis put on integrating
through that cultural wall. AndI think that without that, we
really did, again, what whatwe'd always done in the past,
which is just pack it down andgrid it out and get back to
work.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (16:52):
Something that I don't think I was totally
forthcoming about with you inthe past is that I went to
trauma treatment in 2022 for alot of trauma that I had as a
child young girl. And so I wasin inpatient treatment for about
(17:12):
40 days being treated for intintintimacy issues as well as the
trauma. And, but any woman therehad significant trauma, most
sexual trauma. And manyofficers, higher ups in the
military, women had suchhorrific experiences. And I too
(17:37):
was very good at stuffingeverything down, and I was
treated for workaholism becauseof that.
I just ignored, ignored,ignored. I know some people
struggle with alcoholism ordrugs or whatever it might be,
but it kills us slowly. It justerodes the fabric of our
existence. And so the mentalhealth of the police department,
(17:59):
the men, something that I wasnot as understanding about until
I read your book. And you talkedextensively about the secondary
trauma and how faith got you towhere you are today? Would you
mind sharing a little bit aboutyour stories surrounding the
(18:19):
secondary trauma that men andwomen in the workforce are
subject to every day and alsothe role that faith played in
helping you recover from some ofyour darkest moments?
Chief Reuben Ramirez (18:34):
Even the story about, the little girl
that I mentioned earlier, theeffects of that of that call
itself, I talked about, youknow, experiencing difficulty
eating, not really sleep, notreally understanding exactly
what I was experiencing. Justknowing that for some reason I
felt different. I, in my mind, Ijust needed to make it to my
(18:54):
days off. This happened on inDallas, we're on 8 hour shifts 5
day work weeks. This happened onmy Monday, so I had 5 days to
go. I went the effects reallystarted hitting me and we're
around the 3rd day. I was stillreally struggling and a
suspecting police officerreached out to me and and he he
noticed that something was wasnot right with me, I guess. And
(19:15):
he took the initiative to reachout and just check on me and he
just said, you know, hey,Reuben, you know, how are you?
And I said, you know, I'm okay.And he just got right into it
and said, you know, those callsthat call you went to the other
day, those can be tough.
And he says to me, shares astory about a car wreck that he
had been to 20 years prior. Hesaid he was working downtown
Dallas, pickup truck, littleboy, little 9 year old boy was
(19:36):
in bed of a pickup truck, andthat pickup truck had rolled
over and and and he says thatlittle boy was alive when he got
to the scene. And he says, saidhe had talked to him. And he
says, you know, we eventuallyraised the truck up, rushed that
little boy to the hospital. Andhe says to me, he says, Reuben,
that little boy died. He says,and I have spent the last 20
years of my career angry. Hesays, I've been mad at everyone.
I've been mad at the city. I'vebeen mad at the mayor, the
(19:59):
police chief, my supervisor, youname it.
And he knew I was a faith guy,and he says to me, he goes, you
go to church. He goes, why don'tyou go talk to somebody at your
church? And I didn't understandexactly what I was feeling at
the time. I didn't know why hewas sharing this with me, but I
felt his under hisunderstanding. I felt his
empathy, and he gave me goodguidance. He directed me to a
professional. So I said, okay.And I drove that night. I rolled
(20:22):
up my window, and I drovestraight to a Catholic church
that was down the way. And Iknocked on that door, and I
knocked until someone answeredthe door that night, and and a
priest answered the door.
And I just blurted out. I justsaid, you know, I can't eat. I
can't sleep. And he asked mesome questions, asked me if I
knew this little girl, if I knewthe family. I said, no. I never
met them before in my life. Andhe says to me, he says he says,
(20:44):
officer, what you're describing,he says, is grief. He says,
you're not eating, you're notsleeping. He says, you're
grieving for a family that youdon't even know. And he says to
me, officer, that is going aboveand beyond the call of duty. He
says, that is protecting andserving at the highest level.
(21:04):
And I share that story, for acouple reasons, but, one,
because I didn't have at 26years old, I didn't have a
family member or a friend whocould have taken that horrible
incident Mhmm. And reframed itin a manner that allowed me to
see some sort of nobility in inwhat I was what I had been
through and what I was carrying,but he did. And and it helped
(21:28):
me, and he was a it was aprofessional perspective.
It was a professional lens thatI needed at just the right time.
And so, you know, I would learnlater that that that that
experience and that interactionwith that professional and,
like, with that with thatpriest, were meant for me to
take note of. And and and 24years later, as an assistant
(21:52):
chief, now making decisions ondiscipline and the and the
future and the careers and fateof our of our men and women, I
got the opportunity to replicatethat interaction, and that's the
that's the checkpoint model.That's the blueprint in the book
I wrote of.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (22:07):
In your leadership and management,
especially in your last daysspent at the DPD, I know you
instituted this entirecheckpoints program and model
that is now being used acrossthe country. Can you, just talk
(22:28):
briefly about some of the commonsigns of emotional burnout among
first responders that often gounnoticed?
Chief Reuben Ramirez (22:37):
You know, I think I think in policing, we
we tend to to show a sign of, orbehaviors like dark humor. We
talk about, oh, you know, in 1stresponder community with dark
humor. We see a lot ofnegativism.
We see people just kind of, youknow, getting angry about about
things or short fuse. We've allseen those those incidents where
(22:57):
cops have kind of, you know,blown their their cool, but we
also see a lot of kind of stoicdemeanor as well. So I think
that that each of those is abyproduct of of just consuming
secondary trauma, what I callother people's grief, other
people's tragedy, other people'ssadness, and really just wanting
(23:17):
to continue to show up for thecommunity, not believing that
the community really wants tosee a kind of an emotional
wreck, which which I get thatpart. We they don't, but there,
there's only so much that youcan you can consume and just
throw to the back, before itstarts to man back your mind,
before it starts to manifestinto some sort of negative
conversation or some sort ofdark humor, or even worse, you
(23:39):
know, where where you start tosee the deterioration of your
work product, maybe the morediscourteousness to the
community. And what is extremelyunfortunate about the current
model that exists in most policeagencies in the country is that
that many of them index onbehaviors.
We are looking for behaviors todecide whether or not there's
(24:01):
some sort of intervention mightbe needed or some sort of
resources might be needed. Andand while I think there's
there's a place for that, Ithink it's also very important
to recognize that a lot of badthings have to have already
happened and been consumedbefore the point where you're
you're showing these behaviors.And you know, we say things like
(24:21):
early intervention, but early isa very relative term.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (24:24):
It is.
Chief Reuben Ramirez (24:24):
Right? We can be early before a police
officer, god forbid, takes hislife. We can be early before a
police officer ruins his career,loses his family.
Or we can actually be early andrecognize that cumulatively,
these calls are impactful, andwe should be offering support
and normalizing the conversationwell early on before those
(24:47):
behaviors start to manifest.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (24:48):
But in the actual book, you didn't talk
about any cost associated withthe implementation of this
model.
Chief Reuben Ramirez (24:56):
Yeah.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (24:57):
Could you give just a ballpark idea of how
it's executed, or how it wasexecuted here?
Chief Reuben Ramirez (25:04):
Yeah. Sure. So the the checkpoint
strategy is is very simplytaking your recognizing that
almost every police agency inthe country currently has a peer
support model. Peer support wasa a concept that was created in
the 19 seventies and out of LAPDand on paper makes perfect
sense. Right?
We have we have peers who arehere to support their
(25:25):
colleagues. They they havesimilar experiences so they
should be able to support them.But on paper, it makes perfect
sense, but it really doesn'thave as strong a practical
application. It doesn't reallyaddress the cultural
impediments. And so what Ipropose is that every agency
take that very reactive peersupport model and let's change
it to a proactive checkpointmodel.
(25:47):
And so the difference is in apeer support model, you
generally just ask forvolunteers to come forward and
be part of peer support. Youdon't do that in a checkpoint
strategy. In the checkpointstrategy, you are specific about
who is going to be doing thechecking. We are only gonna use
the men and women that otherpolice officers look up to, the
ones that they respect. And sowe go into an agency. We
(26:08):
identify them. We develop them,we basically rally call them, we
tell them you have somethingthat these stars on my collar
will never have nor will any PhDon the wall have. You have
influence within thisorganization, and no one is
coming to our rescue. In fact,no one ever has in in this in
this mental and emotional healthspace.
So we rally them to be themessengers, and we tell them
(26:31):
you're not gonna do therapy onanyone. You're not gonna have to
ask people how they're feelingor share any person. All you're
gonna do is say, hey, I knowthose calls can be tough. I'm
here if you need anything. I'mworking. We've got resources. If
you need, if you wanna knowmore, let me know and I'll be
happy to send it to you. Ifnothing else, save my phone
number, I'm available if youneed anything. It's just a
checkpoint. It's a 15 secondcall, But you do it with so much
(26:53):
of frequency at such a ratiothat you can't help but
normalize the conversation. Andand and then you start to you
start to see the culture change.You start to see the really our
ultimate goal, which is makingour men and women receptive to
the vast resources that are outthere. So it's almost a
philosophical shift. It's we'retaking our models that are
(27:14):
really in the dugout and we'reputting them on the playing
field and and we've seen it, andwe've seen it success, we've
seen it work, and we see, youknow, the the probably the one
factor that I love the most isthat, this program is is
receptive to the firstresponders, like, they're the
ones who like this. They're theones who advocate for it and
(27:35):
champion it, and they're theones who are leading it.
And it doesn't cost an agencymoney to make that shift. Now,
they're, you know, you have toallocate resources to be able to
do that and when we talk aboutthis environment where we have
fewer and fewer resources and weneed to recruit better, you
know, police departments willoften be very quick to say,
well, I don't have the resourcesfor it. Well, I would challenge
(27:56):
that you don't have theresource. You don't you don't
have the budget to not dosomething like this.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (28:00):
That's right.
Chief Reuben Ramirez (28:01):
Because when you start looking at your
attrition numbers, especiallythe the the 1 to 5 year officer
that we're losing, and, youknow, coincidentally, the
checkpoint strategy is is you'retaking your experienced
officers, your senior officers,and you're checking on those 1
to 5 year officers mostfrequently. So it's like, we've
(28:21):
gotta get out of our oldantiquated thinking about mental
health, emotional health,recruiting, retention, all
being, you know, just go, youknow, put a flyer together or
put a website or try to recruitthem to to our city. You've
gotta think more in-depth aboutall of these concepts. And and
the way that you recruit intoday's world in part is letting
(28:42):
your recruit know that if we usethe checkpoint strategy, you
don't ever have to come forwardif you're struggling here, we'll
come to you. That's appealing toa potential candidate.
Knowing that they are gonna bechecked on during the 1st few
years of their of their careersso frequently, developing a
network, relationships,normalizing a discussion about
emotional health resources beingprovided to them is a retention
(29:04):
tool. So when we're using oursenior officers and they're
getting to do what it is they'vealways really come here to do,
which is protect and serve, butin in this case, they're getting
to also share their experiencesand and help create an
environment where some of theseyounger officers, who look up to
them won't go through some ofthe difficulties that they did
and I think that it just servesmultiple purposes and it creates
(29:28):
a healthier culture for your PDwhich is going to create a safer
community because a healthy cop,he or she is operating, with you
know, really all the tools thatthat they that we want them to
have to serve our communities atat the level that we expect them
to and so it just it it's gotmultiple benefits, but we've
gotta get out of our old way ofthinking.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (29:48):
Let's say you're out at a job fair and
you're trying to recruit people.The amount of time that it takes
one person to come on to DPD,amount of time it takes to train
them, and the cost associatedwith that entire system to the
very first day that they'reactually on the field?
Chief Reuben Ramirez (30:10):
Well, the recruiting costs, those will
vary because if we're doingstuff, you know, local
recruiting fares versustraveling. But from a time
frame, I think Dallas isprobably, pretty expeditious in
in finding a recruit that iseligible and getting them into
the academy, but we could sayprobably on the short time on
(30:31):
the short time frame about 3months. Once you get a police
recruit into the academy, nowyou have a 9 month training
cycle in the academy. Afteryou're have you have completed
successfully completed theacademy, now you have 6 months
of field training where you haveto ride with a senior officer
before you're actually able toto get out on the street. So so
(30:52):
that timeline alone is probablywhere where are we math wise is
somewhere over a year and a halfcloser, probably embarking on on
2 years.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (30:59):
2 years. Yeah.
Chief Reuben Ramirez (31:00):
To be able to get a a to go from a job fair
to the to the the qualifying andhiring, to where they're out on
their own protecting and servingin a squad car. Cost that in
Dallas, our cost is probablyaround the $150,000 range to go
through the recruiting, thetraining, and and kinda get to
(31:21):
that full fledged. Other citiesmay be more depending on what
types of equipment they provide.If you start adding equipment to
it, you know, because everyonewhen they graduate is is
outfitted with their vest, theirbody cams, their tasers,
weapons, and and, whatnot. So sothe cost is, it's probably up
there in the $200,000 to get ain in about almost 2 years.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (31:42):
And now would you describe the the
space, the academy, and what isneeded to hire potentially more?
And let's just say 50 more 50more police in 1 year.
Chief Reuben Ramirez (32:01):
Well, I think logistic there's a lot of
logistical components to it. Imean, you've gotta have the
facility, first of all, to beable to house that amount of
recruits.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (32:11):
What is a facility like right now? I know
this, but I want our viewers andlisteners to know.
Chief Reuben Ramirez (32:19):
If it's not terrible, it'll do, for
terrible. So Yeah. It's notgood. It's, it it resembles a a
probably just a shopping strip Ithink from the seventies.
It's just it has it it lackscurb appeal and that's the
(32:40):
understatement of probably. But,yes. So it's not a very,
attractive I know that thestaffing the staff out there has
done a lot to try to modify andmake, you know, as much
adjustments. So I wanna makesure that they're getting the,
credit for all all thosecommanders and and staff that
have been at the academy tryingto do what they can, but but it
lacks in comparison to any othermajor major city. So that that's
(33:01):
that's the the first piece thatI think doesn't, you know, set
us off on the right foot. I knowand there's a lot that's been
done, to to bring a new or a lotof discussion and funding. I
think that's in the works toBring a newer academy. But but
as it is right now, it's, it'snot good.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (33:17):
Mhmm. And how many people can you train in
that academy today at maximum?
Chief Reuben Ramirez (33:23):
You know, I I don't know. I've never been,
of all my bureau chiefassignments, I I was I was never
over administrative, bureau thatthat that included the academy.
My understanding is, they'vebeen successful at at moving 250
recruits through that academy ayear, and I think they've
they've they've prettyconsistently been able to do
that. But but what winds uphappening with is that, you
(33:46):
know, for every police recruitthat you're gonna move through
the academy, you you've got tohave an equal or greater number
of of trainers that are going tobe able to to help train them,
particularly when they graduatethe academy, because now you,
you know, you're on fieldtraining and you've gotta have,
you gotta take a trainingofficer, a senior officer out of
(34:07):
his call call answeringresponsibility primary call
answering responsibilities to totrain, and and they may get to a
point pretty quickly where theycan go out and answer 2 man
calls and and be effective, butthat trainer is gonna have to
he's he's he's he's watching andgrading and assessing, that
police officer. So there's justkind of a little bit of a of a
focus that has to go towardsthat.
And and when you talk aboutmoving more than, you know, I
(34:31):
guess, 250 recruits out of theacademy and into the field
training component, that that'sat least 250 field trainers that
have to be out there. And so ifyou increase those numbers,
you're gonna have to increaseyour your field trainers as
well.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (34:44):
And have you all been hitting the maximum
250 recruits and trainees peryear?
Chief Reuben Ramirez (34:49):
I believe over the the last, few years
they've been in that vicinity. Idon't know exact numbers. I
think they've been they've beenfairly close. I will tell you
that the the biggest to me, thebigger the even greater
challenge is is not necessarilyrecruiting, but it's it's
retaining.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett: Retention. (35:03):
undefined
Chief Reuben Ramirez (35:04):
We lose about that many police officers
a year, if not more.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (35:08):
Do you think with normalization and
equalization of pay, soincreasing pay, do you think
that will help to address a lotof the retention issues?
Chief Reuben Ramirez (35:19):
I don't think pay alone will solve that
problem. I think it will help. Ithink that, I think there was a
time when when police officerswould come to the field and and
and many of them felt this was acalling, they were just they
were here they were here toprotect and serve and all of the
other, ancillary components toto what the what the job might,
(35:40):
include, involve. I think theywere they were very second to
that. Mhmm.
I don't know that the newworkforce believes that, and and
so I think that having, faircompensation is is a big part of
it, and I I think that becausewe're all all police departments
are really were fishing in thesame pool.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (35:58):
Yeah.
Chief Reuben Ramirez (35:59):
We've got to be competitive in that space
or or we won't get the secondlook. And Dallas is a great
city. It's a world known city,world class city. But this city
is also it has its challengesfor the police forces.
It is not an easy city by moststandards to be a police
officer. You are going to befaced with challenges here.
You're gonna they're going tobe, you know, all types of
(36:19):
crime. You know, I usually liketo say that crime has no
address, but it it does haveareas that it that it frequents.
And so, you know, we've gotta bevery real about what we put our
police officers up against here,and I don't think it's easy to
be a major city police, officer,and and and and Dallas is no
(36:40):
exception to that to thatstandard.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (36:41):
What are some of the top three most
difficult hurdles that you allhave faced in Dallas? I I know
the frustration surrounding theresponse time. If you can talk a
little bit about that, theresponse time for the different
tiers and thresholds.
Chief Reuben Ramirez (36:57):
Well yeah. So response times are I mean,
these are, these are quality oflife issues. When our when our
community calls 911 . That isnot a good day for them. And and
so when you're not having adifficult time and you have to
get to the point where you pullyour phone out and call 911, you
know, you not only hope thatsomebody answers that call, do
you hope that a police officeror somebody that can that can
(37:18):
help you?
You know, if we're not hittingour response time goals, then I
think that's frustrating for thecommunity member, but it's also
frustrating for the policeofficer. No police officer ever
ever became a police officerbecause they wanted to arrive an
hour or 2 after a citizencommunity member, called them or
needed them. So that'sfrustrating. Violent crime is
obviously, you know, that's abig one, and we have to address
(37:40):
violent crime, and I think wedo. I think the city has a good
plan in place, and I think it'sbeen effective, but there are so
many other parts to thatequation than police officers
arresting a bad guy.
I mean, if the judicial systemisn't doing its part, if they
really it's a community is notdoing their part to be the eyes
and ears, We will never hitthose those crime fighting goals
either. So, I think it it'sreally it's that same theme and
(38:03):
there we historically, we lookedat things like response times
reducing crime as almost onedimension, like, this is all you
have to do. But the reality isin order to do each of those,
there's gotta be a lot ofdifferent things happening. And,
you know, and that includestoday just investing in the
technology and and making surethat the administrative
functions of a police departmentthat were not around to the
(38:25):
degree that they are now 10years ago. Like, every every
police detective, in Dallas p dat least, if not the entire
country, can tell you that theirtheir responsibilities have
increased by at least 40% overover the last 5 or 10 years with
the new administrativeresponsibilities due to
technology.
But yet, I don't know that ourour investment or infrastructure
(38:47):
in technology has matched thatso that the user so the products
we're using, the technologywe're using can be user friendly
and that we can streamline like,it needs to be. And so, yeah,
those frustrations are are allpart of it and until until
really there's just a very 360degree look at what investments
(39:10):
are needed in order to make,police department as efficient
as they possibly can be,including their staffing, then
only then will you get a areally good look at, at what the
staffing model needs to be. Ithink that's probably that's
probably one of the better waysto say that is that in order to
really know what what the ideal,staffing model is, you really
(39:31):
need to know and understand allof the responsibilities, not
just how do we reduce crime orhow do we respond to a police
force.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (39:38):
So I do believe now that the police
force is going to be looked atvery comprehensively, and it
must be in order to understandhow to best allocate these funds
that you all will have. And Iknow it's never enough, at least
(40:00):
we're starting somewhere, withthe new funds that will be
allocated to the policedepartment. It's just a
resounding cry of the communitywanting our police force to be
taken care of, and I'm verygrateful that we're now looking
at this pipeline with these newcircumstances. Can you provide
any of your thoughts on thepension and how you hope it will
(40:23):
be addressed in the future?
Chief Reuben Ramirez (40:25):
Well, I think the pension is, I mean, it
is part of the, I guess, theoverall equation for our in our
efforts to recruit, there again,we're all fishing, in a smaller
pool, and we want the bestpossible applicants and most
qualified applicants for ourcity. And, the current workforce
(40:45):
is looking at all of thosethings, and I and I think that
until that is really in a shapewhere it, gives the potential
recruit confidence, I think thatit will hurt us in our
recruiting efforts. I'll saythat much.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (40:57):
Yeah. I agree with you wholeheartedly on
that. And like I mentionedearlier, so this book,
Checkpoints, it's not justavailable in hard copy, but it
is available on Kindle and alsoavailable for download on
Audible. I think it's $7 onAudible, and I forget how much
it was on Kindle. Well, it was,like, $17, and then it's $21 for
(41:21):
the physical book. But sincethis episode's gonna be
launching right beforeThanksgiving, Shanon and I will
be taking some books down towasn't it the police station
that you grew up by? And then,also, I really want our viewers
and listeners to be able toclick the link and send a book,
send 10 books, send the Audible.How how does that work? So if
(41:44):
they wanted to send, let's say,Audible credits because it's
much less expensive, right, tojust send $7 versus $21, How
would they do that?
Chief Reuben Ramirez (41:56):
So there are some options, on the website
Mhmm. Www.startcheckpoints.com,where you can you can donate the
link. We would send an m p 4, tothat particular, officer and as
many as as as as they may wantto send, as well as the Kindle
and the book. I would tell youthat Amazon is probably most
(42:18):
people that navigate through thewebsite, they're like, well, I
could do it here, but I thinkI'm just gonna go to to Amazon,
and and that's fine as well.
But we're so appreciative ofwe've had I mean, this city is
fantastic for it, but we havehad, many people who have
donated books, to agencies. And,I've had, you know, we've had
people reach out to us and justsay that they had 25 books
(42:38):
delivered to their police and itreally wasn't me. So I yeah. I
just love that the community andthat really corporate America is
getting and is getting involvedin in shipping books out. We've
got to spread the message. We'resmall group, but, I think this
is just another example ofcollectively that we there's
nothing we can't do if we worktogether, and I've seen I've
(42:59):
seen philanthropic groups andcorporate America, and then just
people in our community thatjust, wanna get be part of this,
come forward, and and and you'reone of them. So I appreciate
that as well.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (43:09):
Yeah. We love you guys. We love you all
and appreciate all that you'vedone and that you continue to
do. I cannot wait to watch allthat you do. Where do you post
the most? I couldn't find a loton your X. So I think Instagram
and LinkedIn are probably whereI'm putting the most out right
now. And LinkedIn. And then,Instagram @start checkpoints.
(43:33):
I cannot wait. I'm gonna followyou in all of your new
adventures, and I really hopethat you'll remain in touch
because, again, I'm a big fan,big supporter, and I just
appreciate your time.
So it's tough to step away fromour gorgeous new studio, but the
delicious food at Box Bitesmakes it totally worth it. This
charming little shop had onlybeen open 1 week when we
(43:54):
visited, so like us, they'resoaking up all the excitement of
being fresh and new. Come alongas we explore Box Bites in
Dallas.
Paige Muller (44:03):
Yeah. My name is Paige Mueller, and I started Box
Bites 4 and a half years ago. Myfiance and I made these cheese
and charcuterie boxes and justdelivered them to friends'
houses with, like, a I'll seeyou soon kind of note. And then
they posted on Instagram, andthen their friends and followers
were like, wait. I wanna choosea charcuterie box delivered to
my house. And so on and so on.And four and a half years later,
here we are in our first retailspace. So over here in the grab
(44:26):
and go fridge, we haveeverything we make in house
fresh every single day. And thenwe replenish it constantly. So
it's lunchtime right now.
So as things go out, we justkind of keep replenishing and
adding more, but we make theCaesar salad, Greek salad, all
of our dressing in house, hummusdips, sandwiches, the ginger
green tea is to die for.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (44:45):
Oh, I will be having one of those.
Yes. I will be buying one.
Paige Muller (44:48):
And then we have to on Thursdays through Saturday
or if people order in advance,premade cheese and charcuterie
boards and also crudite boardswith our fresh made dips. For
quick grab and go. And then overhere, we have a
Sarah Zubiate Bennett: This is what I'm gonna be doing. (45:01):
undefined
Paige Muller (45:03):
Kind of the main the main star of the show, if
you will. So every day, it's acreate your own experience.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (45:08):
Uh-huh.
Paige Muller (45:09):
And so we have a create your own yogurt parfait
bar Or a build your own cheeseand charcuterie box, which is
really, really fun. So for thecheese and charcuterie boxes,
and I'll hop over there and wecan make you one, but we've got
3 different sizes. Our cutie,for example, is $15, and you can
just pick 4 items. So you canpick 4 items that you want,
whether you want 4 cheeses,meats, mixed nuts, dried fruit,
(45:30):
and all of our selection changesdaily. Same thing with the
yogurt parfait. It's differentyogurts, different fruits,
different granolas, lots ofdifferent options.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (45:40):
That's great. So we could do 3 small
individuals.
Paige Muller (45:43):
Okay.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (45:44):
And then one of these large boxes.
Paige Muller (45:47):
Perfect.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (45:48):
So it has everything here. Mild cheddar,
gouda, Colby Jack, Manchego.Oh,I love oh, I love cheese.
Yes.
Paige Muller (45:55):
So this is our for us box, and you get 8 items.
Great. So you can pick any 8that you'd like, and then it
also comes with 2 spreads. So wehave a local Texas honey, a
Mike's hot honey, or a figspread.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (46:08):
Can we do the hot the spicy and the fig?
Paige Muller (46:10):
Of course. Great choice.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (46:12):
Okay. And then, anything with spicy, I'm
sold? Yes. And then whatever youthink.
Paige Muller (46:18):
Do you want me to just make it for you?
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (46:19):
Yeah. Make it for us since we'll all
be kind of eating, and thenwe'll probably be hungry after
and we'll get another box. Like,what's going through your mind
right now while you're sittinghere piecing all of this? Are
you like, okay. I'm gonna pickmy favorite pieces?
Paige Muller (46:33):
I kind of try to do the most popular items and
what everybody seems to reallyenjoy. Great. And then I usually
try to add something that maybeyou've never had before That
sounds just wonderful anddelicious. Amazing. The goal was
kind of to create like, bringspecial moments to life is all
that I really want to do. Andhaving a space where people can
(46:54):
come and kinda be a one stopshop. Get your cheese and
charcuterie. Let's say you'regoing to somebody's house for
dinner And you wanna get acheese and charcuterie box.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (47:02):
Yes. Right?
Paige Muller (47:03):
Yes. Grab a wooden board. We have wooden boards
over there, hostess gifts, thankyou notes, like cards, nice
cards. And then soon, we'regonna start selling wine and
champagne. Oh. So you'll be ableto kind of get everything all in
one swoop, which is really fun.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (47:18):
I have a question. For corporate events,
do people normally do the boxsize bites? The box bites?
Paige Muller (47:25):
So these boxes that say, like, every time you
walk through our door, we do ahappy dance. These are specific
for the pop up, like, for thefor the storefront.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (47:32):
For the store?
Paige Muller (47:33):
Yes. And then all of those boxes up there on our
top shelf, they're tied withlavender and twine. They're
beautiful. That's typically whatwe do for corporate orders.
So we also do lunch boxes for,like, company office lunches,
and so they they're tied with,like, twine and dried lavender,
and they have a sandwich, chips,and a cookie, which is a great
little box that's perfect. Isn'tthat gorgeous? Any edits,
(47:57):
changes, tweaks?
Just so you know, for these, itobviously doesn't include
crackers or anything like that,but we have a whole pantry
section over here where you canget crackers, where you can get
lavash from Empire Baking, wholebaguettes, additional figs
fresh.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (48:12):
Gosh. And you even have little books.
Paige Muller (48:15):
Oh, yeah. Those are for kids to read.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (48:17):
Here. Oh my gosh.
Paige Muller (48:19):
So mom can have a glass of wine and kids can read.
And have a snack.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (48:23):
So, okay, which ones do you recommend to
try those with?
Paige Muller (48:27):
I personally love these long crackers, which
are great. And then let's sayyou really love and enjoy the
fig spread. We sell lots ofdifferent varieties of them in
house. And everything, we canalways tie a gift bow around and
make it make it a special gift.So the yogurts and the granolas
(48:55):
and the fruits and everything,the offerings change daily.
Today, we have a Greek vanilla,which is definitely our most
popular. We also have a low fatvanilla. Would you like any
almond butter or peanut butter?And so with the small size, you
get the yogurt and 3 toppings.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (49:09):
May I do the peanut butter chocolate
granola? Absolutely. Greatchoice.
Paige Muller (49:12):
Would you like any honey or agave or Maldon salt on
top?
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (49:15):
Salt? Yeah.
Paige Muller (49:16):
I had never had it before, but there was a family
that I lived with in when Ilived in New York.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (49:20):
Uh-huh.
Paige Muller (49:20):
He would always make the yogurt parfaits with
honey and almonds on it. It wasjust, like, denied more. It's
really good.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (49:24):
I'll try it. I have to bring the kids
here. They would love it.
Oh gosh. Yes.
Paige Muller (49:32):
The hummus, like I said, we make in house every
day. So I really think you'lllove it. Here, total's $141.81.
I'll give you guys a bag. Aren'tthey so cute?
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (49:42):
They are cute. Oh, and they have a little
location.
Paige Muller (49:46):
So if anybody gets lost, we're just right here. Oh,
that's so cute. I really thoughtSaturdays were gonna be chill.
Not at all. Not at all. We hadthis whole fridge filled with,
party boards. We have differentsize boards. We have some that
are $75 price point, and we havesome that are a $175. We have
(50:07):
crudites boards for $50.
Like, we try to really have a range of
everything in different stylesof the boards. And on Saturday,
we filled this fridge 6different times. And every time
I saw that, like, I couldn'tmake them pass it.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (50:19):
So amazing. Yeah. Congratulations.
Paige Muller (50:22):
It was funny. On Halloween, which was our first
Thursday, we did a little, like,I put a good. Oh my gosh. I'm so
glad you love it.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (50:34):
It's It's good. It's unreal.
Paige Muller (50:35):
Try really hard to have, like, the highest quality
of ingredients of every singlecategory of everything because
all of those little thingsreally make a huge difference.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (50:42):
Oh my gosh. The granola. The salt.
Salt. Oh my god. You would havenever thought that.
Paige Muller (50:46):
Right?
So we put a little sign outuntil, like, today we're doing
charbooterie boards, and it waslike charcuterie with candy and,
like, a little candy corns andthings like that. And I just
couldn't even make them fastenough because I would bring it
out. And then somebody was like,oh, I'll take one. So I'd go
back and I'm like, oh, okay. I'mgonna make 2 just so we have an
extra.
And then by then, more peoplewanted it, and they couldn't
(51:08):
even make it to the fridge. Sothat being said, now we know we
need to staff a little bit more.And we need we just need some
more hands, which is cool.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (51:17):
That's amazing. i A great problem to
have. Congratulations.
Thank you. Thank you guys somuch for coming in.
There's a hidden challenge facing our
police officers and one that'srarely talked about but deeply
impacts their daily lives. I'mSarah zubiate Bennett, and I'm
thrilled to welcome you to thelaunch of Let's Talk Local.
Today, we're broadcasting fromour brand new studio with a very
special guest, retired assistantpolice chief of the Dallas
Police Department, ReubenRamirez. Together, we'll dive
(00:26):
into this very overlooked issueand what it really means for
those who serve and protect us.I'm excited to have you, and
Chief Ramirez here for our veryfirst episode. Don't forget to
like and subscribe to join us onthis journey.
Okay. 1st, you are our openinginterview for Let's Talk Local,
and so I am thrilled and honoredthat you're here. Your book goes
(00:49):
into extreme detail about life,life in service, and what that
looks like. You depicted yourexperiences in such a
vulnerable, perfectlydescriptive way. I was full of
many emotions. Crying. I wasfurious in some. I was happy in
(01:12):
others. So thank you for yourinvestment in this community.
You have recently retired. Canyou tell us the exact amount of
time that you spent serving as apolice officer and a chief?
Chief Reuben Ramirez (01:27):
So I did 29 years, with the Dallas Police
Department.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (01:31):
3 decades.
Chief Reuben Ramirez (01:31):
Almost 3 decades. Started at 22 years
old. I've been on the commandstaff for 8 years.
I was assistant chief for 4years, bureau chief over
criminal investigations bureau.I was the bureau chief over
tactical and special operations.And then most recently, I was
the bureau chief over all patroloperations at City of Dallas
before I retired 2 months ago.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (01:53):
That's right. And so you have 3 decades
worth of experience, and I havenot enough time to sit here and
ask, for more of your insight.Your wisdom is immense. And I
don't think I mean, I eveninterviewed the old police
chief, Eddie Garcia, who whom weall loved and who will be sorely
(02:14):
missed.
Chief Reuben Ramirez (02:15):
I'll tell you that I didn't know that I
was gonna retire.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (02:18):
You didn't?
Chief Reuben Ramirez (02:19):
No. The backstory is and you know this
from reading the book, but thebackstory is that chief Garcia,
Eddie Garcia tasked me withdoing an assessment of DPD,
after we had seen a series ofofficers, arrested for alcohol
related incidents. And and so weknew that there had to be
something bigger. So there'sthat this behavior was not just
our officers discarding the lawor or feeling that, you know,
(02:42):
they're just making this thisdecision to drive intoxicated.
There had to be something more,and so, went out to do an
assessment and through a seriesof different conversations
throughout the PD really forabout a month of of really
in-depth conversations about theresources that are available, if
they were being utilized, why orwhy not. I just I continue to
hear the same themes. Peoplewere not using the resources.
(03:05):
Very stoic police department,very hard in culture to be to be
really candid. And it it wasn'tuntil a one particular focus
group conversation where they itgot kinda heated about about
mental and emotional health, andand and as you can imagine, many
police officers don't wanna heara 2 star chief asking them about
their mental health. And and so,through that conversation, just
(03:27):
the the floodgates just openedup, and and officers started
sharing some of the mostdifficult parts of their job.
And the things that theymentioned involved exposure to
other people's tragedies
To other people's grief Otherpeople's sadness. They talked
about the sound of wailingmothers, and they talked about
contorted bodies at at fatalitycar crashes. They talked about
(03:50):
the awkward space at a suicidescene, and this is not what
mainstream America believes isaffecting police officers. But
yet, in one of the most marqueecities in the world, our men and
women are saying that these arethe things that cause me to not
sleep at night.
These are the things that areaffecting my mental and
emotional health. Andcoincidentally, the things that
they were mentioning were wereroutine in nature. These were
(04:12):
not the critical incidents whichwhich usually solicit some sort
of support services. These arethe routine calls. And so taking
this information, I just I itjust grabbed me, and I thought
how could we have missed this?How could this not be part of
the support system to to checkon our police officers when
(04:33):
they're going to these thesevery impactful, you know, sad,
grief ridden calls, and that'show we came up with the
checkpoint strategy. That's whywe started implementing this
this whole program, and when Istarted to see the results, when
I started to see SWAT operators,supervisors over SWAT standing
up and talking about theirdifficulties and their
challenges and encouraging ourmen and women to counseling, I
(04:56):
knew that we had somethingreally good here, and I wanted
to spread it. And I've been ableto see Fort Worth PD implement
this exact strategy. CharlotteMecklenburg PD implemented the
checkpoint strategy. Carrollton,Rockwall. I've seen it spread,
and I knew that, this was what Iwanted to be part of, and and
this is what I was meant to do.So I made the decision after
(05:16):
talking with Eddie Garcia andmade the decision that I would
transition after the summer. InSeptember, I officially parted
ways with DPD.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (05:25):
Oh my gosh. Well, I'm just grateful
that you're here. In November ofthe same year, I saw that you
and chief, Eddie Garcia wereawarded just recently. Can you
tell us a little bit about thoseawards? We received the, Shining
Star Award, for the developmentof this program. It's a big
(05:49):
honor. I mean, if there'sanything to, and Chief Garcia
will would would second this,but, you know, of all the
accomplishments that that thatthat you can have in a PD,
there's nothing greater thanthan building something that
would have a legacy of supportfor our men and women to give
them the opportunity to come tothis profession and actually
(06:11):
thrive here and and have achance to be the men and women
that we set out to be when wetook this profession is an
incredibly powerful thing, andwe're not done yet. We have we
have, many men and women whohave come forward around the
country requesting informationabout this program, and we
aren't gonna stop till we canbring the checkpoint strategy to
every police or first responderentity in the country and
(06:32):
beyond.
Looking at this book, you speakabout an initial moment in your
career along with a bunch ofother personal experiences that
inspired you to write your book.Would you mind telling us a
little bit about what all ofthose experiences together look
like?
Chief Reuben Ramirez (06:50):
I mean, this is what it's like to be a
police officer, an Americanpolice officer today. It is
filled with emotions. You know,I say in the book that policing
is a very emotional profession,arguably the most emotional
profession. And and it's becauseof those reasons. It's because
every day you are taking in somesort of sadness, some sort of
frustration, some sort ofdifficulty. And it's difficult,
(07:14):
on the minds of our young, veryimpressionable men and women,
public servant hearted men andwomen, to come in and consume
that amount of emotion. And Ithink, this book, I was able to
just capture, some of thoseemotions and put it in a in a
almost a manual that says,here's the blueprint to help the
(07:35):
future generations. If nothingelse, the future generations of
police, And then it's it'sequipped with anecdotally and
stories that are incrediblyrelatable. And as I travel the
country and present thisprogram, the the main thing I
hear is I had the exact sameexperience. I had a very similar
story.
When you open the book, the thefirst chapter does talk about, a
(07:56):
very difficult call that Ianswered a very young police
officer. The short version isthat, a man handed me his little
3 year old daughter that he hadfound floating in a swimming
pool. And, I talk about howdifficult it was to to sleep
after that call or or eat afterthat call. I didn't know why
that one call of all the calls,why that one call, I just
(08:19):
couldn't move away. I couldn'tmove past it.
This is what our men and womenare exposed to on a daily basis
and sometimes, far before even,you know, 4 years of of
exposures I had. So this is whatneeds to be brought to the
forefront in the discussionabout staffing, recruiting,
retention, paying benefits. Thisis part of the formula, and it
(08:41):
needs to to have a voice tied toit. It needs to to be, I think
that we need to bring attentionto it and and bring it out there
so people know what thatexperience is like. And then we
can talk about how it is that wecan recruit better and and
important just as importantly,retain.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (08:56):
Thank you so much for that. I was having
to hold back tears as you weretalking about that because this
was part of the reason why mywhy I was filled with fury
because and I, again, I knowthat you cannot comment on
whether you agreed or disagreedwith, the proposition that the
city passed. It's now lawProposition U. And so, an
(09:21):
incremental amount of newrevenue next year is going to be
allocated to the police, and itis something I am so grateful
for. Because as I hear peopletalking about, oh, you know, a
library or a park, and then Ithink about all of the sacrifice
(09:44):
that the police endure on adaily basis, I think to myself,
now that's just common senseWant versus need. Need. We need
to take care of our officers. Wemust. Your lives are endangered
every day, especially in Dallas.Everything that you do for our
(10:07):
community is of utmostimportance.
Your service impacts crime. AndI think now after this, next
question that I have for youregarding a horrific event that
everyone knows that took placeon July 7, 2016 that happened,
(10:27):
the conversations are much morematerial because we see what it
looks like to not have thepolice department appropriately
funded and taken care of. AndI'm very grateful that that's
changing. You touched upon theaftermath that settled into the
Dallas police departmentsurrounding the silence of the
horrific tragedy where 5 beliefpolice officers were shot in the
(10:51):
back and 7 others were woundedon July 7th, there was silence.
And you even wrote, I personallyrecall my oldest son who was 15
at the time calling merepeatedly while staying at his
grandmother's house and watchingthe event on TV. I finally
answered the phone and quicklytold him that I was okay and to
tell his mom that I would callthem back as soon as I could.
(11:13):
Can you describe the silencethat fell upon the officers at
DPD after this event andelaborate on what you wrote,
which was, but what is theeffect of knowing that the
emotional part is hardly evermentioned or addressed by the
media or your own department,does that also create an a
conditioning to not address ityourself because perhaps no one
(11:34):
else believes it's worthy ofaddressing?
Chief Reuben Ramirez (11:37):
At that particular time, there was a
reluctance of many police forcesto really talk about or
elaborate on the force that weuse that led to the death of a
suspect, even a suspect. Itwhether it was because the there
would still be some sort oflitigation tied around the case,
(11:58):
whether the case would have tobe prosecuted if there was a
defendant, in in the case. Forwhatever reason, there was a
reluctance to talk about thedetails of it. And I think as I
look back and did research after8 years now removed and even in
the writing of this book, therewere many police officers who
still wanted to talk about thatnight. They want to share what
(12:20):
it was that they experienced,and and really wanna understand
what their colleaguesexperienced as well.
There's many officers,particularly SWAT operators who
told me that here were some ofthe things they did, and they
saw other officers doing thingsthrough their peripheral. It was
very fast, but they would liketo know who those officers were,
and really get a a vantage pointfrom them or a perspective from
(12:42):
them. And for us in particularin Dallas, we we were just, we
were we weren't talking aboutit. And and then, you know, when
you combine that with, some ofthe reluctance of of maybe, you
know, even the media sourcestalking about what the the
details of of what our actionswere, it does condition your
police force to think, well, ifnobody's really talking about
(13:04):
this, maybe I shouldn't beeither. And and and, you know,
we have to be I think that, youknow, some of the understanding
of what the experience is to bea police officer is that we are
operating in a very thickculture, a very rich culture,
and there is a a sense of a herdmentality here.
We are we are doing what ourcolleagues are doing, and so
when we see other people nottalking about it including
(13:27):
whether it's, you know, thepublic, whether it's our command
staff or supervisors, we tend tothink that that's the direction
we need to go as well. And inthat particular case, and, I
will tell you speaking fromexperience, it did us a
disservice because as anassistant chief who was took
part in many, disciplinaryhearings of our officers who
(13:48):
were who had become the subjectof some sort of investigation.
And and when they cited some ofthe difficulties of their jobs
or the things that they werecarrying, they almost always
referenced that night. So therewas a lot of unhealed wounds as
a result of it. And I thinkthat, the awareness and the
discussion in a platform andvenue of their choosing would
(14:11):
have been beneficial. And Idon't think that many of our
police officers got theopportunity to do that, and I
think that that exists in alarge part throughout the
country as well.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (14:20):
You know, first responders are often seen
as the, very silent type. Notthe silent type, but they just
handle it internally as best asthey possibly can. How do
societal perceptions and theculture of silence that you've
often observed within emergencyservices specifically impact
(14:41):
their mental well-being?
Chief Reuben Ramirez (14:42):
Over the last 3 years, we've we've heard
more about wellness. This is avery popular subject throughout
the country whether, you know,post pandemic world, I think
brought a lot of attention tothat. I think in the police
world, when you looked at thepost George Floyd, protests and
marches, it was a it was a verydifficult space for for a lot of
(15:05):
police forces. I think theythere was a lot of attention
placed on them for misconductand behaviors that that were the
actions of of a few, but yet alot of police officers and
police departments got got kindagrouped into that.
And it appeared to be, from alot of, you know, from a lot of
(15:26):
police colleagues of mine, itappeared to be that we were
everyone was being kinda lumpedinto the group of the actions of
others and and and was what wasmost difficult was not
necessarily the scrutiny aboutabout the need for change and
really the examining of ofpractices. That wasn't the
bothersome part. What was reallybothersome to a lot of police
officers was they said, no onereally came to our rescue. No
(15:48):
one really defended us. No onereally stood up and said, what
well, let's hold on a secondhere. We shouldn't broad brush
this, and that was one of thethings that that bothered the or
took an emotional toll, onpolice forces. I think when you
combine that along with the theculture that really, you know,
for almost a 150 years in in ourcity of of evolution has always
(16:12):
had a difficulty of gettingthese these mental health and
support resources through thatcultural wall. No one ever
really tried anything different.We just we saw newer and newer
platforms, newer and newerapplications. There were more
modern and upgraded, therapycenters and rehab centers. There
was there was fantasticpsychiatrists and clinicians,
(16:35):
but not a lot of focus oremphasis put on integrating
through that cultural wall. AndI think that without that, we
really did, again, what whatwe'd always done in the past,
which is just pack it down andgrid it out and get back to
work.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (16:52):
Something that I don't think I was totally
forthcoming about with you inthe past is that I went to
trauma treatment in 2022 for alot of trauma that I had as a
child young girl. And so I wasin inpatient treatment for about
(17:12):
40 days being treated for intintintimacy issues as well as the
trauma. And, but any woman therehad significant trauma, most
sexual trauma. And manyofficers, higher ups in the
military, women had suchhorrific experiences. And I too
(17:37):
was very good at stuffingeverything down, and I was
treated for workaholism becauseof that.
I just ignored, ignored,ignored. I know some people
struggle with alcoholism ordrugs or whatever it might be,
but it kills us slowly. It justerodes the fabric of our
existence. And so the mentalhealth of the police department,
(17:59):
the men, something that I wasnot as understanding about until
I read your book. And you talkedextensively about the secondary
trauma and how faith got you towhere you are today? Would you
mind sharing a little bit aboutyour stories surrounding the
(18:19):
secondary trauma that men andwomen in the workforce are
subject to every day and alsothe role that faith played in
helping you recover from some ofyour darkest moments?
Chief Reuben Ramirez (18:34):
Even the story about, the little girl
that I mentioned earlier, theeffects of that of that call
itself, I talked about, youknow, experiencing difficulty
eating, not really sleep, notreally understanding exactly
what I was experiencing. Justknowing that for some reason I
felt different. I, in my mind, Ijust needed to make it to my
(18:54):
days off. This happened on inDallas, we're on 8 hour shifts 5
day work weeks. This happened onmy Monday, so I had 5 days to
go. I went the effects reallystarted hitting me and we're
around the 3rd day. I was stillreally struggling and a
suspecting police officerreached out to me and and he he
noticed that something was wasnot right with me, I guess. And
(19:15):
he took the initiative to reachout and just check on me and he
just said, you know, hey,Reuben, you know, how are you?
And I said, you know, I'm okay.And he just got right into it
and said, you know, those callsthat call you went to the other
day, those can be tough.
And he says to me, shares astory about a car wreck that he
had been to 20 years prior. Hesaid he was working downtown
Dallas, pickup truck, littleboy, little 9 year old boy was
(19:36):
in bed of a pickup truck, andthat pickup truck had rolled
over and and and he says thatlittle boy was alive when he got
to the scene. And he says, saidhe had talked to him. And he
says, you know, we eventuallyraised the truck up, rushed that
little boy to the hospital. Andhe says to me, he says, Reuben,
that little boy died. He says,and I have spent the last 20
years of my career angry. Hesays, I've been mad at everyone.
I've been mad at the city. I'vebeen mad at the mayor, the
(19:59):
police chief, my supervisor, youname it.
And he knew I was a faith guy,and he says to me, he goes, you
go to church. He goes, why don'tyou go talk to somebody at your
church? And I didn't understandexactly what I was feeling at
the time. I didn't know why hewas sharing this with me, but I
felt his under hisunderstanding. I felt his
empathy, and he gave me goodguidance. He directed me to a
professional. So I said, okay.And I drove that night. I rolled
(20:22):
up my window, and I drovestraight to a Catholic church
that was down the way. And Iknocked on that door, and I
knocked until someone answeredthe door that night, and and a
priest answered the door.
And I just blurted out. I justsaid, you know, I can't eat. I
can't sleep. And he asked mesome questions, asked me if I
knew this little girl, if I knewthe family. I said, no. I never
met them before in my life. Andhe says to me, he says he says,
(20:44):
officer, what you're describing,he says, is grief. He says,
you're not eating, you're notsleeping. He says, you're
grieving for a family that youdon't even know. And he says to
me, officer, that is going aboveand beyond the call of duty. He
says, that is protecting andserving at the highest level.
(21:04):
And I share that story, for acouple reasons, but, one,
because I didn't have at 26years old, I didn't have a
family member or a friend whocould have taken that horrible
incident Mhmm. And reframed itin a manner that allowed me to
see some sort of nobility in inwhat I was what I had been
through and what I was carrying,but he did. And and it helped
(21:28):
me, and he was a it was aprofessional perspective.
It was a professional lens thatI needed at just the right time.
And so, you know, I would learnlater that that that that
experience and that interactionwith that professional and,
like, with that with thatpriest, were meant for me to
take note of. And and and 24years later, as an assistant
(21:52):
chief, now making decisions ondiscipline and the and the
future and the careers and fateof our of our men and women, I
got the opportunity to replicatethat interaction, and that's the
that's the checkpoint model.That's the blueprint in the book
I wrote of.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (22:07):
In your leadership and management,
especially in your last daysspent at the DPD, I know you
instituted this entirecheckpoints program and model
that is now being used acrossthe country. Can you, just talk
(22:28):
briefly about some of the commonsigns of emotional burnout among
first responders that often gounnoticed?
Chief Reuben Ramirez (22:37):
You know, I think I think in policing, we
we tend to to show a sign of, orbehaviors like dark humor. We
talk about, oh, you know, in 1stresponder community with dark
humor. We see a lot ofnegativism.
We see people just kind of, youknow, getting angry about about
things or short fuse. We've allseen those those incidents where
(22:57):
cops have kind of, you know,blown their their cool, but we
also see a lot of kind of stoicdemeanor as well. So I think
that that each of those is abyproduct of of just consuming
secondary trauma, what I callother people's grief, other
people's tragedy, other people'ssadness, and really just wanting
(23:17):
to continue to show up for thecommunity, not believing that
the community really wants tosee a kind of an emotional
wreck, which which I get thatpart. We they don't, but there,
there's only so much that youcan you can consume and just
throw to the back, before itstarts to man back your mind,
before it starts to manifestinto some sort of negative
conversation or some sort ofdark humor, or even worse, you
(23:39):
know, where where you start tosee the deterioration of your
work product, maybe the morediscourteousness to the
community. And what is extremelyunfortunate about the current
model that exists in most policeagencies in the country is that
that many of them index onbehaviors.
We are looking for behaviors todecide whether or not there's
(24:01):
some sort of intervention mightbe needed or some sort of
resources might be needed. Andand while I think there's
there's a place for that, Ithink it's also very important
to recognize that a lot of badthings have to have already
happened and been consumedbefore the point where you're
you're showing these behaviors.And you know, we say things like
(24:21):
early intervention, but early isa very relative term.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (24:24):
It is.
Chief Reuben Ramirez (24:24):
Right? We can be early before a police
officer, god forbid, takes hislife. We can be early before a
police officer ruins his career,loses his family.
Or we can actually be early andrecognize that cumulatively,
these calls are impactful, andwe should be offering support
and normalizing the conversationwell early on before those
(24:47):
behaviors start to manifest.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (24:48):
But in the actual book, you didn't talk
about any cost associated withthe implementation of this
model.
Chief Reuben Ramirez (24:56):
Yeah.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (24:57):
Could you give just a ballpark idea of how
it's executed, or how it wasexecuted here?
Chief Reuben Ramirez (25:04):
Yeah. Sure. So the the checkpoint
strategy is is very simplytaking your recognizing that
almost every police agency inthe country currently has a peer
support model. Peer support wasa a concept that was created in
the 19 seventies and out of LAPDand on paper makes perfect
sense. Right?
We have we have peers who arehere to support their
(25:25):
colleagues. They they havesimilar experiences so they
should be able to support them.But on paper, it makes perfect
sense, but it really doesn'thave as strong a practical
application. It doesn't reallyaddress the cultural
impediments. And so what Ipropose is that every agency
take that very reactive peersupport model and let's change
it to a proactive checkpointmodel.
(25:47):
And so the difference is in apeer support model, you
generally just ask forvolunteers to come forward and
be part of peer support. Youdon't do that in a checkpoint
strategy. In the checkpointstrategy, you are specific about
who is going to be doing thechecking. We are only gonna use
the men and women that otherpolice officers look up to, the
ones that they respect. And sowe go into an agency. We
(26:08):
identify them. We develop them,we basically rally call them, we
tell them you have somethingthat these stars on my collar
will never have nor will any PhDon the wall have. You have
influence within thisorganization, and no one is
coming to our rescue. In fact,no one ever has in in this in
this mental and emotional healthspace.
So we rally them to be themessengers, and we tell them
(26:31):
you're not gonna do therapy onanyone. You're not gonna have to
ask people how they're feelingor share any person. All you're
gonna do is say, hey, I knowthose calls can be tough. I'm
here if you need anything. I'mworking. We've got resources. If
you need, if you wanna knowmore, let me know and I'll be
happy to send it to you. Ifnothing else, save my phone
number, I'm available if youneed anything. It's just a
checkpoint. It's a 15 secondcall, But you do it with so much
(26:53):
of frequency at such a ratiothat you can't help but
normalize the conversation. Andand and then you start to you
start to see the culture change.You start to see the really our
ultimate goal, which is makingour men and women receptive to
the vast resources that are outthere. So it's almost a
philosophical shift. It's we'retaking our models that are
(27:14):
really in the dugout and we'reputting them on the playing
field and and we've seen it, andwe've seen it success, we've
seen it work, and we see, youknow, the the probably the one
factor that I love the most isthat, this program is is
receptive to the firstresponders, like, they're the
ones who like this. They're theones who advocate for it and
(27:35):
champion it, and they're theones who are leading it.
And it doesn't cost an agencymoney to make that shift. Now,
they're, you know, you have toallocate resources to be able to
do that and when we talk aboutthis environment where we have
fewer and fewer resources and weneed to recruit better, you
know, police departments willoften be very quick to say,
well, I don't have the resourcesfor it. Well, I would challenge
(27:56):
that you don't have theresource. You don't you don't
have the budget to not dosomething like this.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (28:00):
That's right.
Chief Reuben Ramirez (28:01):
Because when you start looking at your
attrition numbers, especiallythe the the 1 to 5 year officer
that we're losing, and, youknow, coincidentally, the
checkpoint strategy is is you'retaking your experienced
officers, your senior officers,and you're checking on those 1
to 5 year officers mostfrequently. So it's like, we've
(28:21):
gotta get out of our oldantiquated thinking about mental
health, emotional health,recruiting, retention, all
being, you know, just go, youknow, put a flyer together or
put a website or try to recruitthem to to our city. You've
gotta think more in-depth aboutall of these concepts. And and
the way that you recruit intoday's world in part is letting
(28:42):
your recruit know that if we usethe checkpoint strategy, you
don't ever have to come forwardif you're struggling here, we'll
come to you. That's appealing toa potential candidate.
Knowing that they are gonna bechecked on during the 1st few
years of their of their careersso frequently, developing a
network, relationships,normalizing a discussion about
emotional health resources beingprovided to them is a retention
(29:04):
tool. So when we're using oursenior officers and they're
getting to do what it is they'vealways really come here to do,
which is protect and serve, butin in this case, they're getting
to also share their experiencesand and help create an
environment where some of theseyounger officers, who look up to
them won't go through some ofthe difficulties that they did
and I think that it just servesmultiple purposes and it creates
(29:28):
a healthier culture for your PDwhich is going to create a safer
community because a healthy cop,he or she is operating, with you
know, really all the tools thatthat they that we want them to
have to serve our communities atat the level that we expect them
to and so it just it it's gotmultiple benefits, but we've
gotta get out of our old way ofthinking.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (29:48):
Let's say you're out at a job fair and
you're trying to recruit people.The amount of time that it takes
one person to come on to DPD,amount of time it takes to train
them, and the cost associatedwith that entire system to the
very first day that they'reactually on the field?
Chief Reuben Ramirez (30:10):
Well, the recruiting costs, those will
vary because if we're doingstuff, you know, local
recruiting fares versustraveling. But from a time
frame, I think Dallas isprobably, pretty expeditious in
in finding a recruit that iseligible and getting them into
the academy, but we could sayprobably on the short time on
(30:31):
the short time frame about 3months. Once you get a police
recruit into the academy, nowyou have a 9 month training
cycle in the academy. Afteryou're have you have completed
successfully completed theacademy, now you have 6 months
of field training where you haveto ride with a senior officer
before you're actually able toto get out on the street. So so
(30:52):
that timeline alone is probablywhere where are we math wise is
somewhere over a year and a halfcloser, probably embarking on on
2 years.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (30:59):
2 years. Yeah.
Chief Reuben Ramirez (31:00):
To be able to get a a to go from a job fair
to the to the the qualifying andhiring, to where they're out on
their own protecting and servingin a squad car. Cost that in
Dallas, our cost is probablyaround the $150,000 range to go
through the recruiting, thetraining, and and kinda get to
(31:21):
that full fledged. Other citiesmay be more depending on what
types of equipment they provide.If you start adding equipment to
it, you know, because everyonewhen they graduate is is
outfitted with their vest, theirbody cams, their tasers,
weapons, and and, whatnot. So sothe cost is, it's probably up
there in the $200,000 to get ain in about almost 2 years.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (31:42):
And now would you describe the the
space, the academy, and what isneeded to hire potentially more?
And let's just say 50 more 50more police in 1 year.
Chief Reuben Ramirez (32:01):
Well, I think logistic there's a lot of
logistical components to it. Imean, you've gotta have the
facility, first of all, to beable to house that amount of
recruits.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (32:11):
What is a facility like right now? I know
this, but I want our viewers andlisteners to know.
Chief Reuben Ramirez (32:19):
If it's not terrible, it'll do, for
terrible. So Yeah. It's notgood. It's, it it resembles a a
probably just a shopping strip Ithink from the seventies.
It's just it has it it lackscurb appeal and that's the
(32:40):
understatement of probably. But,yes. So it's not a very,
attractive I know that thestaffing the staff out there has
done a lot to try to modify andmake, you know, as much
adjustments. So I wanna makesure that they're getting the,
credit for all all thosecommanders and and staff that
have been at the academy tryingto do what they can, but but it
lacks in comparison to any othermajor major city. So that that's
(33:01):
that's the the first piece thatI think doesn't, you know, set
us off on the right foot. I knowand there's a lot that's been
done, to to bring a new or a lotof discussion and funding. I
think that's in the works toBring a newer academy. But but
as it is right now, it's, it'snot good.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (33:17):
Mhmm. And how many people can you train in
that academy today at maximum?
Chief Reuben Ramirez (33:23):
You know, I I don't know. I've never been,
of all my bureau chiefassignments, I I was I was never
over administrative, bureau thatthat that included the academy.
My understanding is, they'vebeen successful at at moving 250
recruits through that academy ayear, and I think they've
they've they've prettyconsistently been able to do
that. But but what winds uphappening with is that, you
(33:46):
know, for every police recruitthat you're gonna move through
the academy, you you've got tohave an equal or greater number
of of trainers that are going tobe able to to help train them,
particularly when they graduatethe academy, because now you,
you know, you're on fieldtraining and you've gotta have,
you gotta take a trainingofficer, a senior officer out of
(34:07):
his call call answeringresponsibility primary call
answering responsibilities to totrain, and and they may get to a
point pretty quickly where theycan go out and answer 2 man
calls and and be effective, butthat trainer is gonna have to
he's he's he's he's watching andgrading and assessing, that
police officer. So there's justkind of a little bit of a of a
focus that has to go towardsthat.
And and when you talk aboutmoving more than, you know, I
(34:31):
guess, 250 recruits out of theacademy and into the field
training component, that that'sat least 250 field trainers that
have to be out there. And so ifyou increase those numbers,
you're gonna have to increaseyour your field trainers as
well.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (34:44):
And have you all been hitting the maximum
250 recruits and trainees peryear?
Chief Reuben Ramirez (34:49):
I believe over the the last, few years
they've been in that vicinity. Idon't know exact numbers. I
think they've been they've beenfairly close. I will tell you
that the the biggest to me, thebigger the even greater
challenge is is not necessarilyrecruiting, but it's it's
retaining.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett: Retention. (35:03):
undefined
Chief Reuben Ramirez (35:04):
We lose about that many police officers
a year, if not more.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (35:08):
Do you think with normalization and
equalization of pay, soincreasing pay, do you think
that will help to address a lotof the retention issues?
Chief Reuben Ramirez (35:19):
I don't think pay alone will solve that
problem. I think it will help. Ithink that, I think there was a
time when when police officerswould come to the field and and
and many of them felt this was acalling, they were just they
were here they were here toprotect and serve and all of the
other, ancillary components toto what the what the job might,
(35:40):
include, involve. I think theywere they were very second to
that. Mhmm.
I don't know that the newworkforce believes that, and and
so I think that having, faircompensation is is a big part of
it, and I I think that becausewe're all all police departments
are really were fishing in thesame pool.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (35:58):
Yeah.
Chief Reuben Ramirez (35:59):
We've got to be competitive in that space
or or we won't get the secondlook. And Dallas is a great
city. It's a world known city,world class city. But this city
is also it has its challengesfor the police forces.
It is not an easy city by moststandards to be a police
officer. You are going to befaced with challenges here.
You're gonna they're going tobe, you know, all types of
(36:19):
crime. You know, I usually liketo say that crime has no
address, but it it does haveareas that it that it frequents.
And so, you know, we've gotta bevery real about what we put our
police officers up against here,and I don't think it's easy to
be a major city police, officer,and and and and Dallas is no
(36:40):
exception to that to thatstandard.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (36:41):
What are some of the top three most
difficult hurdles that you allhave faced in Dallas? I I know
the frustration surrounding theresponse time. If you can talk a
little bit about that, theresponse time for the different
tiers and thresholds.
Chief Reuben Ramirez (36:57):
Well yeah. So response times are I mean,
these are, these are quality oflife issues. When our when our
community calls 911 . That isnot a good day for them. And and
so when you're not having adifficult time and you have to
get to the point where you pullyour phone out and call 911, you
know, you not only hope thatsomebody answers that call, do
you hope that a police officeror somebody that can that can
(37:18):
help you?
You know, if we're not hittingour response time goals, then I
think that's frustrating for thecommunity member, but it's also
frustrating for the policeofficer. No police officer ever
ever became a police officerbecause they wanted to arrive an
hour or 2 after a citizencommunity member, called them or
needed them. So that'sfrustrating. Violent crime is
obviously, you know, that's abig one, and we have to address
(37:40):
violent crime, and I think wedo. I think the city has a good
plan in place, and I think it'sbeen effective, but there are so
many other parts to thatequation than police officers
arresting a bad guy.
I mean, if the judicial systemisn't doing its part, if they
really it's a community is notdoing their part to be the eyes
and ears, We will never hitthose those crime fighting goals
either. So, I think it it'sreally it's that same theme and
(38:03):
there we historically, we lookedat things like response times
reducing crime as almost onedimension, like, this is all you
have to do. But the reality isin order to do each of those,
there's gotta be a lot ofdifferent things happening. And,
you know, and that includestoday just investing in the
technology and and making surethat the administrative
functions of a police departmentthat were not around to the
(38:25):
degree that they are now 10years ago. Like, every every
police detective, in Dallas p dat least, if not the entire
country, can tell you that theirtheir responsibilities have
increased by at least 40% overover the last 5 or 10 years with
the new administrativeresponsibilities due to
technology.
But yet, I don't know that ourour investment or infrastructure
(38:47):
in technology has matched thatso that the user so the products
we're using, the technologywe're using can be user friendly
and that we can streamline like,it needs to be. And so, yeah,
those frustrations are are allpart of it and until until
really there's just a very 360degree look at what investments
(39:10):
are needed in order to make,police department as efficient
as they possibly can be,including their staffing, then
only then will you get a areally good look at, at what the
staffing model needs to be. Ithink that's probably that's
probably one of the better waysto say that is that in order to
really know what what the ideal,staffing model is, you really
(39:31):
need to know and understand allof the responsibilities, not
just how do we reduce crime orhow do we respond to a police
force.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (39:38):
So I do believe now that the police
force is going to be looked atvery comprehensively, and it
must be in order to understandhow to best allocate these funds
that you all will have. And Iknow it's never enough, at least
(40:00):
we're starting somewhere, withthe new funds that will be
allocated to the policedepartment. It's just a
resounding cry of the communitywanting our police force to be
taken care of, and I'm verygrateful that we're now looking
at this pipeline with these newcircumstances. Can you provide
any of your thoughts on thepension and how you hope it will
(40:23):
be addressed in the future?
Chief Reuben Ramirez (40:25):
Well, I think the pension is, I mean, it
is part of the, I guess, theoverall equation for our in our
efforts to recruit, there again,we're all fishing, in a smaller
pool, and we want the bestpossible applicants and most
qualified applicants for ourcity. And, the current workforce
(40:45):
is looking at all of thosethings, and I and I think that
until that is really in a shapewhere it, gives the potential
recruit confidence, I think thatit will hurt us in our
recruiting efforts. I'll saythat much.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (40:57):
Yeah. I agree with you wholeheartedly on
that. And like I mentionedearlier, so this book,
Checkpoints, it's not justavailable in hard copy, but it
is available on Kindle and alsoavailable for download on
Audible. I think it's $7 onAudible, and I forget how much
it was on Kindle. Well, it was,like, $17, and then it's $21 for
(41:21):
the physical book. But sincethis episode's gonna be
launching right beforeThanksgiving, Shanon and I will
be taking some books down towasn't it the police station
that you grew up by? And then,also, I really want our viewers
and listeners to be able toclick the link and send a book,
send 10 books, send the Audible.How how does that work? So if
(41:44):
they wanted to send, let's say,Audible credits because it's
much less expensive, right, tojust send $7 versus $21, How
would they do that?
Chief Reuben Ramirez (41:56):
So there are some options, on the website
Mhmm. Www.startcheckpoints.com,where you can you can donate the
link. We would send an m p 4, tothat particular, officer and as
many as as as as they may wantto send, as well as the Kindle
and the book. I would tell youthat Amazon is probably most
(42:18):
people that navigate through thewebsite, they're like, well, I
could do it here, but I thinkI'm just gonna go to to Amazon,
and and that's fine as well.
But we're so appreciative ofwe've had I mean, this city is
fantastic for it, but we havehad, many people who have
donated books, to agencies. And,I've had, you know, we've had
people reach out to us and justsay that they had 25 books
(42:38):
delivered to their police and itreally wasn't me. So I yeah. I
just love that the community andthat really corporate America is
getting and is getting involvedin in shipping books out. We've
got to spread the message. We'resmall group, but, I think this
is just another example ofcollectively that we there's
nothing we can't do if we worktogether, and I've seen I've
(42:59):
seen philanthropic groups andcorporate America, and then just
people in our community thatjust, wanna get be part of this,
come forward, and and and you'reone of them. So I appreciate
that as well.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (43:09):
Yeah. We love you guys. We love you all
and appreciate all that you'vedone and that you continue to
do. I cannot wait to watch allthat you do. Where do you post
the most? I couldn't find a loton your X. So I think Instagram
and LinkedIn are probably whereI'm putting the most out right
now. And LinkedIn. And then,Instagram @start checkpoints.
(43:33):
I cannot wait. I'm gonna followyou in all of your new
adventures, and I really hopethat you'll remain in touch
because, again, I'm a big fan,big supporter, and I just
appreciate your time.
So it's tough to step away fromour gorgeous new studio, but the
delicious food at Box Bitesmakes it totally worth it. This
charming little shop had onlybeen open 1 week when we
(43:54):
visited, so like us, they'resoaking up all the excitement of
being fresh and new. Come alongas we explore Box Bites in
Dallas.
Paige Muller (44:03):
Yeah. My name is Paige Mueller, and I started Box
Bites 4 and a half years ago. Myfiance and I made these cheese
and charcuterie boxes and justdelivered them to friends'
houses with, like, a I'll seeyou soon kind of note. And then
they posted on Instagram, andthen their friends and followers
were like, wait. I wanna choosea charcuterie box delivered to
my house. And so on and so on.And four and a half years later,
here we are in our first retailspace. So over here in the grab
(44:26):
and go fridge, we haveeverything we make in house
fresh every single day. And thenwe replenish it constantly. So
it's lunchtime right now.
So as things go out, we justkind of keep replenishing and
adding more, but we make theCaesar salad, Greek salad, all
of our dressing in house, hummusdips, sandwiches, the ginger
green tea is to die for.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (44:45):
Oh, I will be having one of those.
Yes. I will be buying one.
Paige Muller (44:48):
And then we have to on Thursdays through Saturday
or if people order in advance,premade cheese and charcuterie
boards and also crudite boardswith our fresh made dips. For
quick grab and go. And then overhere, we have a
Sarah Zubiate Bennett: This is what I'm gonna be doing. (45:01):
undefined
Paige Muller (45:03):
Kind of the main the main star of the show, if
you will. So every day, it's acreate your own experience.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (45:08):
Uh-huh.
Paige Muller (45:09):
And so we have a create your own yogurt parfait
bar Or a build your own cheeseand charcuterie box, which is
really, really fun. So for thecheese and charcuterie boxes,
and I'll hop over there and wecan make you one, but we've got
3 different sizes. Our cutie,for example, is $15, and you can
just pick 4 items. So you canpick 4 items that you want,
whether you want 4 cheeses,meats, mixed nuts, dried fruit,
(45:30):
and all of our selection changesdaily. Same thing with the
yogurt parfait. It's differentyogurts, different fruits,
different granolas, lots ofdifferent options.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (45:40):
That's great. So we could do 3 small
individuals.
Paige Muller (45:43):
Okay.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (45:44):
And then one of these large boxes.
Paige Muller (45:47):
Perfect.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (45:48):
So it has everything here. Mild cheddar,
gouda, Colby Jack, Manchego.Oh,I love oh, I love cheese.
Yes.
Paige Muller (45:55):
So this is our for us box, and you get 8 items.
Great. So you can pick any 8that you'd like, and then it
also comes with 2 spreads. So wehave a local Texas honey, a
Mike's hot honey, or a figspread.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (46:08):
Can we do the hot the spicy and the fig?
Paige Muller (46:10):
Of course. Great choice.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (46:12):
Okay. And then, anything with spicy, I'm
sold? Yes. And then whatever youthink.
Paige Muller (46:18):
Do you want me to just make it for you?
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (46:19):
Yeah. Make it for us since we'll all
be kind of eating, and thenwe'll probably be hungry after
and we'll get another box. Like,what's going through your mind
right now while you're sittinghere piecing all of this? Are
you like, okay. I'm gonna pickmy favorite pieces?
Paige Muller (46:33):
I kind of try to do the most popular items and
what everybody seems to reallyenjoy. Great. And then I usually
try to add something that maybeyou've never had before That
sounds just wonderful anddelicious. Amazing. The goal was
kind of to create like, bringspecial moments to life is all
that I really want to do. Andhaving a space where people can
(46:54):
come and kinda be a one stopshop. Get your cheese and
charcuterie. Let's say you'regoing to somebody's house for
dinner And you wanna get acheese and charcuterie box.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (47:02):
Yes. Right?
Paige Muller (47:03):
Yes. Grab a wooden board. We have wooden boards
over there, hostess gifts, thankyou notes, like cards, nice
cards. And then soon, we'regonna start selling wine and
champagne. Oh. So you'll be ableto kind of get everything all in
one swoop, which is really fun.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (47:18):
I have a question. For corporate events,
do people normally do the boxsize bites? The box bites?
Paige Muller (47:25):
So these boxes that say, like, every time you
walk through our door, we do ahappy dance. These are specific
for the pop up, like, for thefor the storefront.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (47:32):
For the store?
Paige Muller (47:33):
Yes. And then all of those boxes up there on our
top shelf, they're tied withlavender and twine. They're
beautiful. That's typically whatwe do for corporate orders.
So we also do lunch boxes for,like, company office lunches,
and so they they're tied with,like, twine and dried lavender,
and they have a sandwich, chips,and a cookie, which is a great
little box that's perfect. Isn'tthat gorgeous? Any edits,
(47:57):
changes, tweaks?
Just so you know, for these, itobviously doesn't include
crackers or anything like that,but we have a whole pantry
section over here where you canget crackers, where you can get
lavash from Empire Baking, wholebaguettes, additional figs
fresh.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (48:12):
Gosh. And you even have little books.
Paige Muller (48:15):
Oh, yeah. Those are for kids to read.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (48:17):
Here. Oh my gosh.
Paige Muller (48:19):
So mom can have a glass of wine and kids can read.
And have a snack.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (48:23):
So, okay, which ones do you recommend to
try those with?
Paige Muller (48:27):
I personally love these long crackers, which
are great. And then let's sayyou really love and enjoy the
fig spread. We sell lots ofdifferent varieties of them in
house. And everything, we canalways tie a gift bow around and
make it make it a special gift.So the yogurts and the granolas
(48:55):
and the fruits and everything,the offerings change daily.
Today, we have a Greek vanilla,which is definitely our most
popular. We also have a low fatvanilla. Would you like any
almond butter or peanut butter?And so with the small size, you
get the yogurt and 3 toppings.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (49:09):
May I do the peanut butter chocolate
granola? Absolutely. Greatchoice.
Paige Muller (49:12):
Would you like any honey or agave or Maldon salt on
top?
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (49:15):
Salt? Yeah.
Paige Muller (49:16):
I had never had it before, but there was a family
that I lived with in when Ilived in New York.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (49:20):
Uh-huh.
Paige Muller (49:20):
He would always make the yogurt parfaits with
honey and almonds on it. It wasjust, like, denied more. It's
really good.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (49:24):
I'll try it. I have to bring the kids
here. They would love it.
Oh gosh. Yes.
Paige Muller (49:32):
The hummus, like I said, we make in house every
day. So I really think you'lllove it. Here, total's $141.81.
I'll give you guys a bag. Aren'tthey so cute?
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (49:42):
They are cute. Oh, and they have a little
location.
Paige Muller (49:46):
So if anybody gets lost, we're just right here. Oh,
that's so cute. I really thoughtSaturdays were gonna be chill.
Not at all. Not at all. We hadthis whole fridge filled with,
party boards. We have differentsize boards. We have some that
are $75 price point, and we havesome that are a $175. We have
(50:07):
crudites boards for $50.
Like, we try to really have a range of
everything in different stylesof the boards. And on Saturday,
we filled this fridge 6different times. And every time
I saw that, like, I couldn'tmake them pass it.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (50:19):
So amazing. Yeah. Congratulations.
Paige Muller (50:22):
It was funny. On Halloween, which was our first
Thursday, we did a little, like,I put a good. Oh my gosh. I'm so
glad you love it.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (50:34):
It's It's good. It's unreal.
Paige Muller (50:35):
Try really hard to have, like, the highest quality
of ingredients of every singlecategory of everything because
all of those little thingsreally make a huge difference.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (50:42):
Oh my gosh. The granola. The salt.
Salt. Oh my god. You would havenever thought that.
Paige Muller (50:46):
Right?
So we put a little sign outuntil, like, today we're doing
charbooterie boards, and it waslike charcuterie with candy and,
like, a little candy corns andthings like that. And I just
couldn't even make them fastenough because I would bring it
out. And then somebody was like,oh, I'll take one. So I'd go
back and I'm like, oh, okay. I'mgonna make 2 just so we have an
extra.
And then by then, more peoplewanted it, and they couldn't
(51:08):
even make it to the fridge. Sothat being said, now we know we
need to staff a little bit more.And we need we just need some
more hands, which is cool.
Sarah Zubiate Bennett (51:17):
That's amazing. i A great problem to
have. Congratulations.
Thank you. Thank you guys somuch for coming in.
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