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May 15, 2025 54 mins
In one of the most heartfelt and revealing episodes yet, Carl Lee reunites with former Vikings teammates Todd Scott, Audrey McMillan, and Vencie Glenn—three defensive backs who helped define a generation of NFL grit, swagger, and accountability. They reminisce about their time in Minnesota, share raw stories of playing through injuries, and reflect on the brotherhood that defined their secondary. The group dives into how the game has changed, comparing eras of toughness, leadership, and locker room culture—while also weighing in on modern issues like NIL deals, financial literacy for young athletes, and the impact of social media. There are laughs, lessons, and even a few hard truths about how the league treated players in the past. With co-hosts Hollis Lewis and Lisa Odie joining the mix, this reunion is part storytelling, part cautionary tale, and all heart.
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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Yeah, you gotta work. You gotta work. Ry shn It's
mine gotta show. Everybody is my son. You gotta work.
Cry shin another mile Sag Dogs.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Welcome to Let's Talk with Carl Lee and frequent guest
hosts Hollis Lewis and Lisa Odie, where sports culture and
community intersect. Join the crew as they dive into engaging
conversations with guests from all walks of the sports life.
Let's Talk as proudly presented by Attorney Frank Walker, Real Talk,
Real Experience, Real Results, Frank Walker, LOL dot Com, History

(00:44):
in Downtown.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
Charleston, Hollow and Lisa Odie. Hello, we have a unique
kind of a show today. We're We're gonna have Todd
Scott who went to the University of Louisiana. He was
a six round draft pick for the Vikings in nineteen
ninety one. He did he had his first Pro Bowl

(01:04):
was in nineteen ninety two. Tease Got played seven years
in NFL from nineteen ninety one to ninety seven. He
was He also played for the Jets, Tampa Bay, Kansas
City Chiefs. We're also going to have the other corner
that played on the other side of me, Audrey McMillan
went to the University of Houston. Was drafted in the

(01:27):
third round by the New England Patriots. He played eight
seasons in the NFL nineteen eighty five to nineteen ninety three.

Speaker 4 (01:34):
Was a Pro Bowl selection in ninety.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
Two, led the league in interceptions in in ninety two
with eight interceptions. He played for the also played for
the Houston Ollers. Vincey Glenn went to the University of Indiana.
Was a New England Patriots second round pick, and he

(01:56):
was the fifty fourth, fifty fourth pick overall. That's a
to me, that's a that's a huge deal man, because
I mean, I think I was one hundred and something,
so he was in the nineteen eighty six draft. He
finished his career with fifty four interceptions and a bunch
of those. He'll claim that we're with the Vikings. Now,

(02:18):
I don't know if that's true or not.

Speaker 4 (02:21):
He plays it really will.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
He played for the Patriots and the San Diego Chargers
in his rookie season and would go on to play
for the New Orleans Saints, Vikings and New York Giants
and where he completed his career. Now, I don't know
if we have them all on yet, but we'll be
getting them. Hollis you know, at least I'm sure you're

(02:47):
aware of the types of bonds that you build when
you when you play with guys. Some guys, you know,
you can play a year with him and you can
grab this bond that is just so crazy, this group
of guys. And again I can't help, but I can't
help but give call them by their nicknames because I don't.

Speaker 4 (03:08):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (03:08):
I can't give them the fool that full of respect.
I guess if they want that, they need to.

Speaker 4 (03:13):
Go somewhere else.

Speaker 5 (03:14):
But like.

Speaker 3 (03:18):
Watching these guys come in and playing with them, and
and just the way we would talk to each other
on the field versus off the field in the locker room,
it was.

Speaker 4 (03:28):
It was crazy.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
But what you also have is you have four guys
who are all different personalities completely. Todd Scott and Audrew
McMillan are two I think I would call them two
really business type guys that that left the league and
really became more so focused on business and things like that.

(03:53):
Not saying that Vincey didn't or I didn't, but me
and Vincey are kind of like kind of the wild
spirits of of of the group, and and and it
was interesting to see how we all kind of played together.
So do I have Do I have some guys out there?
Is Mic out there? That's that's the guy I haven't
talked to it a long time. Where's mac at hey?

Speaker 6 (04:16):
Coach? Coach? Coach? All I need to know is who's
on the lie because at the end of the day,
you know, probably the last one call card here. I'm
gonna have a problem with that tea. You know, I'm
always but you know, when he ain't got nobody else
called macmillan. Everybody that went to all the pointment then

(04:37):
called macmillan because he'll fill in. I'm here, fellas, I
cannot help you all this.

Speaker 4 (04:43):
Well, let me.

Speaker 3 (04:45):
I can't imagine that the Glenn has not said something already.

Speaker 4 (04:49):
To to to come back at you all. That's the
first thing I agree. It is Vincy on the line.

Speaker 6 (04:59):
Man.

Speaker 5 (04:59):
First of all, there you go here here because I
haven't heard Argie matc Millan's voice in two years, y'all.
It's been a long time, too long, man. And I
love all my brothers, but Argie matc Millan's man.

Speaker 6 (05:15):
I want the world, So.

Speaker 5 (05:17):
Vincy Glenn loves you and your family.

Speaker 6 (05:20):
Man, you heard.

Speaker 4 (05:23):
Wait, wait before we get into all of that.

Speaker 3 (05:25):
Okay, before we get in and all that, let me
just say this about Vincy Glenn. Vincy Glenn, I love
your family, anybody that's related to you, anybody that you
played with.

Speaker 4 (05:37):
I don't care really that much about you. I had to.

Speaker 3 (05:40):
My my co host, my co host, whether two who
had to try to get make me get you on
the show because I was considered doing the show without you.
But let me let me introduce you. Let me introduce
you to my co host, Hollis Lewis. He's he's a guy,
a former player quarter back at West Virginia State. He's

(06:02):
in the political realm now. And Lisa Odie who is
we know her as.

Speaker 4 (06:07):
The football queen. She knows all about football. She's she's
the one who goes in and digs out all the information.

Speaker 7 (06:13):
And she did say, Vincy, she.

Speaker 3 (06:16):
Couldn't find a lot of information on you. But but
that's another story.

Speaker 6 (06:20):
Don't let that touch all right, keep me, keep keep
me in control. Man, there you go, that's what let
that touch you? I did, all right.

Speaker 3 (06:40):
So let's so so let's let's get let's get this,
Let's get the let's get the show started. Let's just
try to see if we can stay on the track.
All right, So let me if I have to be
serious for a moment. This group of guys to me
and and I and I played with a lot, a
lot of dbs in in the league at the Vikings.

(07:02):
Willie Tiel is one of those guys that I really
made a good bond with Rufus and all those kind
of guys JT all those kind of guys. This group
here has has this has a really unique kind of
I can say love.

Speaker 4 (07:19):
With them from me to them, them to me.

Speaker 3 (07:21):
Maybe because it was, like I don't I don't know
if anybody really expected a whole lot from us, And
I think us and the rest of the defense, I
think really came in and created something that was really
really special.

Speaker 4 (07:38):
And am I saying that, guys, or am I touch that?

Speaker 3 (07:42):
Because I know I know that, And you had a
Pro Bowl career and we had we had announced all
that prior to you guys getting on.

Speaker 4 (07:48):
I know you had a Pro Bowl career, And.

Speaker 3 (07:52):
Tell me how you feel about the relationships, and I
know this is one of the very few few times
we've got a chance that I talked. But the bonds
that we had when we were playing, and the and
the belief we had in each other was was one
of those kind of amazing things.

Speaker 4 (08:08):
Talk a little bit about that if you can.

Speaker 6 (08:12):
Let me start with the fact that you know what
our fear of this leader called Lee and I eventually
hold your horses here. Now, remember you came from San
Diego out there on the West coast, and you know
everything was funny and blaring and everything was great. But
you know when you got them visited, we was already
locked in. You know, we was tired. You know you help.
I'm telling you. You came along and really you helped

(08:33):
us do what we needed to do. But see Lee,
when I got that you joined Brown and everybody, man,
I had come out of all us for five years
with four years I played there, and one of my
best years of playing football outside of high school has
always been with you guys, because we were a family
in the back. We had great coaches, guys who understood.
I remember Coach Shaw telling us one time. You know,

(08:56):
I said, Coach, what you want me to play bubb
and rods or you wanna play off on to go
like he said, son, don't care what you play, just
make sure they don't score. I said, that's what I
want to hear, Coach, you was pumping run, were pumping run.
So we had to get up on them. And thank god,
we had two solid safeties behind us. You know them
on strong brothers. All we had to do is call
the player, let us do the work up front, and

(09:16):
they know they had us in the back. And not
only did we enjoy time on the field together and
success on the field, we just didn't have a quarterback
and could get us to the prompt defense. But at
the end of the day, guys, that family that we
built in the backfield left. I mean, even Joey Brown,
even he was old, right, he was really really Joey.

(09:37):
Now we can't forget Joey, but not Joy was the
one that he he just was different than the four
of us back there, but he was there with us.
But the end time defense realized and recognized that the
secondary was solid. And that's one thing I am very
very proud of. And it's been thirty years since I've
been back and talk to you guys, but everything here

(09:59):
that just happen.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
And Mike and one of the things we got to
do is we got to make sure we get to
the same We got to come to a game this
season so we could see each other.

Speaker 6 (10:07):
Got you got you guys all right, Scott, Yes, sir.

Speaker 3 (10:12):
Tell us a little bit about your your your your bonding,
the relationship with the with the vikings, with the group.
Just kind of give us a quick spiel. I'm trying
to get everybody to kind of give their quick spill.

Speaker 6 (10:27):
It's going to be different for me because when I
when I came in as a rookie, all of you
guys were veteran players. Y'all all played at least seven
or eight you're ten years or more. So for me
as a young player coming in and getting to see
how you guys went about doing things and just understanding
what it was to be a pro. Uh, you guys

(10:49):
taught me everything I know about being a pro on
and off the field. So it probably with me, it
probably had the greatest impact because I had the opportunity
to watch you guys while I was in high school
and college then come in to play with you guys
and actually be a teammate. That was really, really, really

(11:12):
something for me. And but the but the interesting thing
is was just you guys were not just weren't just
mentors for me. Y'all were truly big brothers and were
concerned with me more so even more so off the
field and the things I did, how I carried myself,
and what I did even then just on the field.
So a lot of those life lessons I've really taken

(11:33):
with me, you know, taken with me. I know you
were mentioning it early, just even with Audrey and I Audrey,
I've had the benefit of enjoying a twenty five year
of real estate investing career, uh that Audrey got me
into over twenty five years years ago, and I'm still
using that to generate generational wealth for my family. But

(11:53):
I mean just just over the over the over the
that time and over the years, you guys have been
confidant advisors, big brothers, uh, hilarious comedians and it's too
much go ahead, it's too much the name, but for

(12:14):
because you guys are more peers and I was kind
of like the little brother. I think my take on
it is a lot different.

Speaker 4 (12:22):
Okay, Bi Glenn, you see what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (12:31):
You hear be better my two my three years there.
But especially my first two in Minnesota were my my
two favorite years. Playing in the secondary with guys and
then playing on the defense because I had just come
from New Orleans in ninety one and we were the

(12:52):
number one defense in the league down in New Orleans
and I signed us a free agent. And remember Phelix
Felix Wright was there. Yeah, yeah, Will, he had us Will,
he had us alternateause he really wanted me to start.

Speaker 6 (13:05):
Will.

Speaker 5 (13:05):
He had us alternated like a quarter here, the quarter there.
In the first game of the season, like the first
quarter I picked off a magic man Green Bay. And
a couple of games later, you.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
Know, maybe just in case you wanted the fact that
you said that you may not have heard Lisa in
the background saying what she is a diehard Packer fan.

Speaker 6 (13:30):
Just show you.

Speaker 7 (13:38):
You should see the cheese had I have on right now. Guys,
Come on, now, come on.

Speaker 5 (13:46):
I made a green.

Speaker 4 (13:53):
Said that you soon.

Speaker 5 (13:55):
Had a secret.

Speaker 4 (13:58):
Yeah, I'm not getting keeping sick.

Speaker 7 (14:00):
I'm just not good at it.

Speaker 4 (14:02):
Go ahead and finish.

Speaker 6 (14:04):
But anyway, coming there and.

Speaker 5 (14:08):
Just bonding with you guys, and it was more about
the communication level you all. You guys were all pro
but the way we communicated easily on and off the field,
but more than anything got we all bought in man
And I'm gonna give kudos to Willie Shaw, yeah, putting
us together. I reckon us to the movie Ben heard

(14:30):
when they had all of the horses and they just
quite wasn't working together, and then you get this one
guy that brings it in and gets the horses running
in the right water and they go on to win,
win the Gladiator Award and all that stuff. That's how
I see us as that group of guys. We were
all different in our own ways, we had our own styles,
but when we got together, we were held on wheels,

(14:53):
you know what I'm saying. And that was the beauty
of watching the maturation of that. Then when we hit
our stride, they man or you know, and that and
that was a big blow I think really to all
of us at that particular point in time.

Speaker 3 (15:07):
And guys, I've talked to Willie not too not really,
not that long ago, and I'm going to have him
on the show at some point also.

Speaker 4 (15:19):
Just so that he can talk about it.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
But you know, when you start talking about a coach
and you start talking about the unity of the group,
the unique thing about which I think people will be
kind of crazy, will think that the way he coached
his thing was if you had a way to do something,
he wasn't gonna change it. You do it, and if
it works, it works, and now if it don't work.

(15:43):
The issue for him was, you know, at least it
was like, it's my job I don't have as long
as it's working, you can do it. The moment it
stops working, it's my job that we got to start
dealing with.

Speaker 8 (15:55):
So it's kind of like a not the opposite of
a helicopter, just kind of once, if it works, go
do it.

Speaker 7 (16:01):
Guys.

Speaker 4 (16:02):
Yeah, yeah, I like it. Either one of you guys.
Hold on, I'm gonna have my hoes jump in here.

Speaker 9 (16:07):
How you doing, guys. It's great to have you guys
on the show. What I'm interested in is that, again,
we talk about on this show a lot as far
as different eras and being at you all are DB's
and the things that you could do in the eighties
and nineties, when you're looking at the game today, sort
of what is your assessment of football and and how

(16:28):
it's played in this modern era?

Speaker 5 (16:31):
Seven on seven I watched it.

Speaker 6 (16:36):
I'm watching seven on seven man, they say, no, you
can't touch the receivers. Man, you hit them at tenty
and fives. I mean, it'd be real, it'd be real
tough for us to play now. It'd be really, really
tough to play now. I mean, man, Audrey, they all
have to put their hands on you. But imagine how

(16:59):
good it would be for us right now. You didn't
have to worry about tackling. You didn't have to worry
about it. If you got beat, you gonna get cut.
I can't believe what they letn't get away.

Speaker 5 (17:11):
I agree.

Speaker 6 (17:12):
You know what, when you get beat, you couldn't go
back and sit on that bench without folks looking.

Speaker 5 (17:17):
Too crazy right now, so the station, let me clip.
Let me say this real quick. So just just look
at this perception. Guys, when we played in our era,
every time we landed up on the football field against
particular teams, we played against future Hall of famers. We

(17:40):
didn't play against backup quarterbacks. But ten twelve years avalone
you played, when you played Broncos, you played against that
way when you played forty nine ers, you have Montana
and you played against the same great quarterbacks every year.
These guys don't even play fourty twelve games hardly on that.
He's a fact of it. We would succeed anyway, because

(18:02):
these quarterbacks are garbage.

Speaker 6 (18:10):
Five years.

Speaker 5 (18:13):
So you can't get past the first six guys in
the NFL and quarterback and say name me the top
six guys. After you get the number five, you become
a right let's see.

Speaker 6 (18:28):
You're doing that. You don't do that.

Speaker 4 (18:31):
All right, So hold on for a second.

Speaker 3 (18:32):
So for anybody who's a listener of the show and
has a favorite quarterback, let's be clear how that guys
feel about.

Speaker 7 (18:44):
I think they made it more more than clear.

Speaker 6 (18:48):
Yes, sir, can I this and that? I just want
to interject this small little tad. Hey, God, y'all don't
remember how y'all dogged me. Why did you even bring
up waves over me on.

Speaker 5 (19:02):
The gold Man?

Speaker 8 (19:03):
Oh Man, dark time to say, dark man, we're not
even talking to me.

Speaker 6 (19:12):
I had him corner on the one yard line. He's
two hundred and forty pounds and he run over me
on the goal line, and scort y'all wouldn't even talk
to me on.

Speaker 4 (19:20):
The Well, let's make it clear. We're talking to you now.

Speaker 6 (19:27):
We we forgive you. Now, that's the longest. That's the
longest walker, longest walking my career back to that bench
and knowing.

Speaker 5 (19:40):
But made too many good plays man to remember that
kind of stuff. Man.

Speaker 3 (19:44):
No, no, Now, I'm gonna make the case that everybody
is gonna remember the worst play more so than the
best play.

Speaker 4 (19:51):
Oh yeah, So so I get that. Lisa, you you
got a question.

Speaker 8 (19:56):
Well, I just first of all, I want to know, guys,
how do I get a cool nickname? Mac and ve
Glenn and my name doesn't work for any of that, Like,
how do I make Lisa Odie something cool like Seeley
or I don't know, you guys want to help think
of something on that one.

Speaker 4 (20:10):
But well, she's the football queen, but she's not what.

Speaker 7 (20:12):
Yeah, I guess that cool queen works. I guess all right, guys.

Speaker 8 (20:16):
So so I'm just gonna throw this question out to
all three of you guys, and you can answer in
any order. But we all remember the moment back in
the playoffs when aj Brown, the Eagles wide receiver, they
showed him on the sideline reading a copy of Inner Excellence,
and he said that was the way that he kind
of dealt with the pressures of a game.

Speaker 7 (20:36):
And so I was wondering, what are.

Speaker 8 (20:37):
Some things that you guys used to do on the
sidelines to kind of relieve pressure when you were, you know,
waiting to get back out on the field.

Speaker 4 (20:46):
Am I allowed to answer that before then?

Speaker 8 (20:48):
Absolutely, whoever wants to go, I want to hear these stories.

Speaker 4 (20:51):
I want to make this because it might make it
easy for them.

Speaker 7 (20:54):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (20:55):
The fact that you knew, the fact that I knew
that Vincey and and te Scott.

Speaker 4 (21:01):
And Mike was sitting beside me, that.

Speaker 3 (21:04):
Was that was pressure enough to know that you did
not want to make a mistake.

Speaker 7 (21:11):
Pressure pressure, It was.

Speaker 3 (21:13):
This was what I think is is different Now you
don't you don't need to go anywhere.

Speaker 4 (21:19):
We coming straight to.

Speaker 3 (21:20):
You and and ain't no fighting, ain't nobody gonna throw
no blues. But you gotta accept whatever it is that
they say to you.

Speaker 4 (21:28):
Okay, I mean, like you you have kind.

Speaker 7 (21:30):
Of vented to each other. That's kind of what you
did if you called it venting.

Speaker 6 (21:33):
But we were good. We didn't we didn't have we
didn't make We were so good. That's why because level
was there, it was important, it was important convincing to it.
It's like they said earlier, with Coach Shaw. He taught
us a sense of accountability. If you're gonna, if you're gonna,

(21:55):
you're gonna play covered too, You're gonna get the you're
gonna get the receiver inside. Because you know, I had
to get into Vince. I had to get him the
tour core man core core core, you remember, get him inside,
Mac and I got him. I got him at least
at least. Let me say this, It was great accountability.
But but we were the number one second. They were

(22:17):
the number one defense and the number one secondary two
years in a row. So you're talking about a really
good group of guys. One of the things I to
this day, and he's heard me say that a lot
of times. Karl had this thing. He would always say,
if you dropped the pick or something, you don't want
to be great, You're just happy being good.

Speaker 7 (22:38):
I like that.

Speaker 5 (22:40):
You know, when you see you dropped a big practice
we make We would make you feels to go run
after practice, even though we didn't have to run after practice.
Mac us see, they would say, man, let's go get
something in and we go do our own on sprints.
That's how we work now.

Speaker 3 (22:58):
And I want, I want, I want to make sure
that if you're listening to this, and I know it
can get jumbled up because everybody's talking at one time,
I want you to understand what they're saying. They are
saying player accountability. They're talking about player accountability. Where I
make the case today, if Hollis me and Hollis Is
on the same team and he yelled at me because

(23:18):
I did something wrong, I'm yelling back at him and
cussing at him, and like we get ready to go
to blow. There was never a thought of us ever
thinking about being mad at each other. You had to
be accountable for that, sure, you know. And the person
that was gonna keep you accountable.

Speaker 7 (23:37):
Was the group was us for your teammates, those teammates.

Speaker 3 (23:41):
And I think that's something that they Hollis ain't gonna
tell me what to do. He only play my position,
he played quarterback. How he gonna tell me what to do?
That's how it is now. Yeah, And I think that's
where a lot of the issues breakdown. That's the breakdown
of what I think is great teamwork.

Speaker 4 (24:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (24:02):
I was just gonna just to follow up with that
when you're talking about you know, today's game.

Speaker 4 (24:08):
You know, at the NFL level.

Speaker 9 (24:10):
Also, we've talked a lot about, you know, the collegiate
level and what's going on with n I L. So
from a former player perspective, what is your what are
you guys thoughts on on n I L and in
collegiate athletics.

Speaker 6 (24:25):
I think the n L is gonna ru aead. I
think I think n I L is is is really
ruined in college athletics because there's no.

Speaker 5 (24:37):
Loyalty.

Speaker 6 (24:38):
You won't have guys who will spend two or three
years out of university. They they're basically free agents as
you would see it in pro football. So you don't
have a chance to build a camaraderie. You don't have
the chance to build the continuity because because the dollars
can make you switch schools every year.

Speaker 5 (24:56):
You don't have kind to be a kid. When you're
being a kid sixteen, seventeen years old, five six million dollars,
you know all the vultures and the people around them,
and the reality is of life. So I come to
college and I'm making five million six minutes. Then they
talking about going to PROS and they want me as
a free agent. Man, I'm taking a pay.

Speaker 6 (25:16):
Cut to the pros.

Speaker 5 (25:18):
That's crazy. It don't even sound right, you know what
I'm saying. But then there's the dark side of the
NIL is that how many kids in the portal system.
How many kids get caught up in the portal system,
and because they don't have paperwork to get into other schools,
school they schools. There are a lot of schools that
still require you to have some paperwork. You ain't just

(25:38):
go play horse and we gonna pay you. And that's
why schools is saying, Okay, the school's gonna pay us.
And now we did back if you went crazy, man,
we get got got you can pay them. Got to
have a baby.

Speaker 6 (25:52):
Hey, hey, Micky min every three every year, that killed
a program and you can't keep a coaching.

Speaker 3 (25:59):
Hey, Mike, let me ask you this question. Okay, here
in West Virginia, they're considering to make NIL.

Speaker 4 (26:08):
For high school.

Speaker 5 (26:10):
Oh my goodness.

Speaker 4 (26:11):
Okay, So please, if.

Speaker 3 (26:14):
As a former player, as a businessman, give me your advice,
or give the folks out there who's thinking about doing that,
give them some kind of advice.

Speaker 4 (26:26):
What would you tell them?

Speaker 6 (26:28):
What? The only thing I can tell you right now,
I was just at home up in East Texas for
mother's day. My eighty one year old mama still living
and I have enough view that's already transferred back to
a high school. It's ruined. Money has ruined everything in
this country. And at the end of the day, we'll

(26:50):
destroy all of us. And at the end of the day,
there's no more lawty, there's no more commitment, there's no
more camaraderie, there's no more faithfulness. At the end of
the day. When you start teaching that lessening to kids,
this ends up with nothing but dispaster. There's no faithfulness
to nobody, no commitment to nobody. It's just a bad situation.
I've had stories from people with this in our hell guys,

(27:14):
parents are leaving their hometown going with that kids. That's
too much of a burden. But Vincent said, kids need
to be kids, and we need to like Willie Shaw,
I had a dad. But Willie Shaw was like a
father to me. Y'all remember a game we lost one time.
We was all sitting out there on the sideline and
he told us, guys, and I tell her story all
the time. He shouldn't be too high. You can't get

(27:36):
too low. You got to have a little better And
I thought to live my life. You can't get way
up and you can't get way down somewhere consistency, and
when you sign that contact as a freshman, you don't
have any idea none. On the face. School was always
a problem with us. Now it's even god worse. You
don't even have to go to school anymore. So what

(27:57):
are we doing? Were back to the plantation and thinking
and we're back to just serving. Its working and we're
never ever thinking about the holistic approach to the child
and the student and your kids that does not look
at the fact that my kid need to be with
somebody that cares about my kid like I do. I'm
going to buy paying this money and focus on the

(28:19):
development of my child. And that's one thing that media
and everything else is doing to us. It's killing our
kids and our generation of people. We will, like like
men to say we won't allow our kids to grow
up and be mature, and eventually it's gonna kept catch
up with us as a nation. It's say, wow, I
hear you. Let me let me add this. Let me

(28:41):
add this seem one of one of the aspects and
not looking at is the lack of financial literacy either
with the seventeen eighteen year old, you know, and most
of these kids come up a family where they didn't
have a lot, so no one in that family has
the financial literacy, so they be givet if I'm paying
to keep five hundred thousand or what?

Speaker 5 (29:00):
Ever?

Speaker 6 (29:01):
Who who really understands the tax implicate implications that I
have a lot of friends who are agents and and
uh just people who represent other kids. They say, that's
one of the major problems that's rarely ever talked about.
A lot of these kids have a tax bill that
they can't pay because they spent the money. They have
no idea how it worked, no idea.

Speaker 5 (29:20):
Well, first of all, the parents are not even in
that tax Brad, you know what I'm saying when they
when they sitting there grounding to make one hundred thousands
between both households, even if that and all of a
sudden you got you got your kids making all this money.
So all you thinking about is your easiness in life.

(29:42):
They ain't really thinking about their kids. You're like, man,
this kid, man, I burn them through.

Speaker 6 (29:45):
I don't have to.

Speaker 5 (29:48):
Know all that all this time. Man, let me don't
get better. And then you got the cousins and the
uscles and all and being pulled from Rex and so
it's stuff on kids out there. It's hard being those
the media.

Speaker 8 (30:01):
Question, you know, social media, so that's another thing in
itself that's really hard for kids to.

Speaker 6 (30:06):
Deal with, you know, you know, to Vincy's point, being
a younger player, when I came in, I had called
Mac and Vincy that I could talk to about man
but you know what, you know, what do I do
from a tax situation? How should I you know, how
should I manage my money? They did a lot of
educating and training me on what the NFL, the intervel

(30:28):
stands are not for long and how to how to
save my money, how to invest my money had I
not had them at twenty two years old. You know,
I'm from jalax In, Texas. My parents my parents was
a high school guidance counselor and a middle school principal.
We didn't come from money, but they're they're tutelision. Their
education helped me be able to prepare and sustain myself
long term. I remember just my first introduction to all

(30:51):
to a four one K when they had the four
one K meeting. I remember Calle just say listen, come
in here with us and just do what I tell
you to do. I was like, okay, that's sound like confidence. Listen,
enough confidence and enough trust and faith in in his
advice and Audrey and Vincy, and that's you know, from

(31:13):
nineteen ninety nine, nineteen ninety two to now. Man, that's
worked out very very well, very very well for me.
But I had someone that I could turn to that
could give me instruction, guidance, and some leadership.

Speaker 4 (31:25):
Lisa's got a question.

Speaker 8 (31:26):
I've got some individual questions for you guys, If that's okay,
I'll start start with Mike. So, Mike, you you actually
went to school at the University of Houston, correct.

Speaker 5 (31:38):
And you.

Speaker 6 (31:41):
No, I graduated in three and a half years. See,
I like to go past with anything about that.

Speaker 7 (31:51):
So much, so let me let me let me get
to my point.

Speaker 8 (31:54):
Sorry, you were in high school, you were a highly
recruited her back, and so you were from what I
what I read, and you can correct me if I'm wrong,
you were the first African American freshman to start as
a quarterback of the University of Euston.

Speaker 7 (32:10):
Is that correct?

Speaker 6 (32:12):
That's not correct, that's incorrect. There were other quarterbacks before me.
I was the first quarterback to start as a freshman.

Speaker 7 (32:19):
Okay, sorry I left that detail. I've got it written here.

Speaker 6 (32:22):
Sorry.

Speaker 7 (32:22):
So you were the first to start as a freshman, Yes,
So tell me a little more about what that was
like for you.

Speaker 6 (32:29):
Oh, it was the same thing, you know. I thank
God for my parents and my grand grandparents and my
ninety year old grandmother who taught me most of everything.

Speaker 5 (32:37):
I know.

Speaker 6 (32:37):
You know, I lived my entire life. I've gone from
here all over the world. But I've always carried her
too lish with me. It's a woman that had a
third grade education, but she at least never was spoked.
I've never seen her want for nothing, and she was
always the stability in our life and our family's life.
So when I got out, I've always accepted the challenge
of when they say you can't, that you say you can,

(33:00):
and we've always had things to prove prove. The only
reason I played quarterback was they told me that I couldn't,
that we weren't small enough to play. Matter of fact,
the only reason I went to the University of Houston
is because they back when I came out, there were
no black quarterbacks. And y'all just don't know how hard
it is to see all these black quarterbacks now making
all this money. Back in my day, you couldn't play quarterback.

(33:23):
There were certain positions that they held for certain people,
and you couldn't play quarterback because you couldn't think. You
couldn't play safety because that was a thinking position. So
as a freshman, they moved me to running back, and
my mother and father fault for me to play. So
that's why I went to the university. So I was
recruited all over Texas, all over California, all over the

(33:45):
United States, but I went to u ACE because they
allowed Flash to play quarterback. That's when I got in
and played the beer.

Speaker 9 (33:51):
Now this was pre Andre Ware. So at that time
when you came out, did y'all run like the wide
open running shoot at that time, because that's pretty innovative.

Speaker 4 (34:00):
During that time. Y'all in the veer, the.

Speaker 6 (34:03):
Houston vill Okay, got it.

Speaker 4 (34:06):
And part of that.

Speaker 3 (34:07):
And let me ask this question because I'm gonna make
the case again when you start talking about black quarterback
and you start talking about the veer, those types of things,
that's that's an additional running back, which you're not.

Speaker 4 (34:21):
You're not.

Speaker 3 (34:22):
There's still not to me, I feel like there's still
not enough trust yet for you to be able to
throw the ball fifteen twenty times in the game, you know,
because they don't they consider you as an as an
asset as running the ball.

Speaker 4 (34:35):
Am I correct on that?

Speaker 6 (34:37):
Absolutely not, because at the end of the day, that's
that's that's that's that mentality, that old myth, because that's
the end of day. We all played saying like football
because you know when you I said what you was
on Sunday afternoon, Fan, I'm boll Hays, I'm Roger star back.
You can still throw the ball. You're gonna make the
move what hers does. Right now. The quarterbacks going now
they're able to throw the ball on the run. Ain't

(34:59):
no way back when when we came out, they would
even allow you to run and throw the ball. And
that's all the winterback doing right now. And if you
came run around and throw the ball, then you can't
play quarterback. That's a cussing right now. You cannot expect
everything had gotten better on defense, everybody gotten faster and
quick and everybody. They have not increased the field, they

(35:20):
had elongated the film. Everything is the same. So the
only thing that's changing is the personnel, and the personnel
has changed. So you don't have a Roger Stauback no more.
You'll need a Jalen Hurst, but they wouldn't be the
Jalen Hurst. Then I had a depth to doing something
that would keep me playing a game that I love.

Speaker 7 (35:44):
I hear you, all right, all right?

Speaker 8 (35:45):
So I have another question for Vincey. So hey, Vincey,
this is for you. So you were quite the menace
when you played at Indiana State University. Some of your.

Speaker 7 (35:54):
Accolades I looked up today.

Speaker 8 (35:56):
You're a two time All Conference safety, you were nineteen
eighty five Missouri Valley Conference Player of the Year, and
you still hold the ISU record for career interceptions at seventeen.

Speaker 7 (36:07):
Is that correct?

Speaker 5 (36:09):
Yes?

Speaker 6 (36:09):
And like Max say, I did that in two and
a half years. I knew it.

Speaker 7 (36:16):
You guys are so extremely talented bunch of guys. I'm
telling you what I got on it was over. So
my question is, I know Carl alluded to this earlier.

Speaker 8 (36:29):
You were selected by the Patriots in the second round
right of the nineteen eighty six NFL draft.

Speaker 7 (36:34):
So, so walk us through that was what was that
like for you?

Speaker 5 (36:40):
It was I was just happy to be drafted. These
guys know back then, man, you just you just have
to They won't they won't be even the center of
the kind of training camp because we had training camp
back then. It was one hundred and twenty people could
come to training camp. It was all the little work
or plus you had your twelve rounds in the draft,
being drafted in the second round and coming from a

(37:03):
small school, one double a school, and then the patrin
had just come off the Super Bowl from against the Bears.
I'm like, man, I'm gonna go into a good team.
But they taught me so much. Andre Tippitt, uh Fred
Marion Black mother tippit all the ry Clay boy, they
taught me so much. As how they alluded to as

(37:25):
a rookie, and my locker was next to Stanley Morgan.
Gave me all his pony tennis tersue because he wore
the same size as me, and he hooked me up.
But they told me when I got there, they say, hey, man,
if you want to stay in this legal sometime, keep
your eyes over, your mouth shut, and your backpack. They
said it's a terrible business. They said, it's a terrible business.

(37:48):
And just just how I had got to the league
and all that I was strictly about football, you know,
you know what I'm saying. I had my fun, but
I wanted to seed. And then I got traded right
after the fourth game my roofie year of San Diego.
When I come out here and I don't know anybody,
and it's like starting all over back then, because everybody's

(38:11):
been training camp but now here on the team, and
they telling me they want play soon. I'm loving that part,
but man, I'm trying.

Speaker 6 (38:18):
To learn the defense again. That was different because if
you messed up back then, you ain't getting too many
do over.

Speaker 5 (38:27):
You was gone.

Speaker 6 (38:28):
They cut people after games at halftime on plane. I'm
not being honesty. It was real. It was really. We
wasn't making no money, I'm to be honest. So that
whole experience to getting drafted and and that kind of stuff,

(38:48):
and so these guys I don't notice. But the game
I started the same day ago, five games after I
got here.

Speaker 5 (38:56):
I broke my jaw the first game, I said, I
third played the game, my own teammate fall in the
back of my head, my face and I break my jaw.
I go get wired up. At halftime I come back.
I watched the rest of the game that was on Sunday.
That Thursday night I started on ESPN Thursday Night Football
against the Raiders. Would have broke, y'all. They had made

(39:17):
me a special face mask and everything, because I didn't
want to come off the field. So I played the
next eight games with my mouth ware shut. Broke, y'all.
You couldn't do that these days. That's how bad I
wanted it. That's how bad I didn't want to come
off that field. Because once some off, it ain't no
guarantees you're gonna ever come back on. But you have
to go lucky and have a long career or even

(39:39):
be out there a few years. Just because of the
injury aspects of it. It was great and it was
it was very fulfilling to that.

Speaker 3 (39:47):
To that point, Scott, did you what did you play
any games that you had something that was somewhat considered
a major injury but you still playing?

Speaker 5 (39:57):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (39:59):
When you got you you were gone. At last year
when Vincent and I were there with Ap and them,
I played in Green Bay with three broken ribs and
all the left side of the car, left side of
corllege porn In December.

Speaker 3 (40:15):
Okay, Matt mac did you did you did you play with?
What tell me the serious injury that you probably played.

Speaker 6 (40:22):
With a carl. That's that's very sensitive to me because
that's what ended my career.

Speaker 5 (40:28):
They knew.

Speaker 6 (40:31):
I left Houston on planing B free agency with a
torn a c L that they never replaced, and they
didn't replace it based on the fact that the strength
and the acquad and the hamstring and the cast, they
didn't feel like they needed major surgery. So I get hurt.
That was in ninety two and it was in Tempa Bay,

(40:55):
were jamming and I hit it. I hold the guy up.
Hear my knee click. They knew it in Minnesota the
last seven eight games out of town for they knew
I had torn my moniscus. They said, don't worry about it,
we'll clean it up at.

Speaker 4 (41:08):
The end of the year.

Speaker 6 (41:09):
This is nineteen ninety three, and guys, this is exactly
what happened to me when they took my moniscus out
at the end of the year in ninety three. I
came back thinking I'm getting ready to go to work
and go get back. It was just like it was.
It was elastic, My knee was moving back and forward.
And the bikers never told me that if I take

(41:29):
this moniscus out it would end my career, because I
had played that whole year without a meniscus and without
an acl But I played the Hope with no maniskas.

Speaker 3 (41:38):
Now I'm gonna I'm gonna, I'm gonna make the case
that you know, Zambi, I'm gonna leave it.

Speaker 4 (41:45):
I'll leave the name right there.

Speaker 3 (41:49):
He knew that he had to have known that as
the trainer, right, Yes, it should have been that should
have been so. And again one of the things publicly,
if I can dare say this, when you go to
the trainer back in those days, his job wasn't necessarily
to get you well, but to get you back on

(42:10):
the field.

Speaker 4 (42:11):
And yeah, that's a whole different thing.

Speaker 6 (42:15):
You know.

Speaker 4 (42:17):
I played with I played with pins. I played with
pins in my wrist. And and they say to me.

Speaker 3 (42:28):
That as long as you don't try to catch yourself,
if you and you try to catch yourself, you're gonna break.

Speaker 4 (42:37):
The fore arm.

Speaker 3 (42:38):
Wow, okay, now yeah, And and and when you say
that to me that way, I'm like, oh, okay, Like.

Speaker 7 (42:46):
I can think how you play football?

Speaker 3 (42:49):
Like I'm trying to figure out like how do I
how am I supposed to control that opportunity or situation
that I'm I'm not gonna catch my side if I'm falling.

Speaker 4 (42:57):
But I remember that that's the that situation.

Speaker 3 (43:00):
I mean when you start talking about playing hurt, I
bet you during that time, that was just a standard.
That was that was And and let's remember I first
I got my job because John Swain didn't want to
take a shot.

Speaker 4 (43:17):
Yeah, and he had he had an ankle.

Speaker 3 (43:19):
You guys probably weren't there at that point, but it
was my first, my first opportunity to play. The third season,
Swain was hurt his ankle, and so when it's time
for him to come back, he's like, you know, Zambi
saying like, hey, you know we can shoot it up.

Speaker 4 (43:38):
You can go wow. And he was like, nah, I'm good.

Speaker 3 (43:41):
And then I go in and it's playing against Detroit.
I get the game winning an interception and then the
rest is history and he was gone. So and do
you think I was gonna ever get have an injury
keep me out of the game. Absolutely not, because I
could see, you know, I saw what happened and and
that and again in I don't know where that is now,

(44:01):
because I think the players somewhat make that decision, you know,
whether or not they play probably too much money.

Speaker 5 (44:09):
Game and say, hey, coach, I ain't feeling today. Man,
I ain't playing, and you ain't ain't gonna might be
mad at you. You can't make some dudes play no
more more? Brother, don't play that much? But games a year?

Speaker 6 (44:22):
What? What?

Speaker 4 (44:23):
Head coach? What head coach? A?

Speaker 6 (44:25):
Yeah? See see y'all. Remember the time I got that
grade three hematoma and that big old lump came on
because you know, we didn't wear a hip pad right
sought we were cute, yeah, you know, because it was
so limited. And I got that hip hip him and
and at halftime I go in there and all and

(44:46):
it's falling up. Man, it's a big old not like
a bash side of my you know what, Let's get
the niggle and let's draw this on out and get it.
Ain't nothing, but I got enough on Hey, I told
him up myself.

Speaker 4 (45:05):
I remember that.

Speaker 6 (45:06):
I remember that he did was if you can't hurt it,
no more, wrap it up unless.

Speaker 4 (45:14):
My gosh.

Speaker 3 (45:15):
I mean, and I don't think the actual like Hollis.
I don't think like the public really knows. Like these
types of stories, you when you're looking at a game,
you have no idea of what the player is dealing with,
and not just physically, and but if it's physical, that's
got to be a mental piece to it too, because like, man,
you kind of afraid to fall.

Speaker 4 (45:36):
I'm thinking, I can't fall. I can't catch myself, you know.
So what I mean, Yes, I don't.

Speaker 5 (45:43):
I don't playing a rupt y'all.

Speaker 6 (45:45):
But I just text.

Speaker 5 (45:49):
I said, love you, just thinking about it. He texted
me back, and he goes, and I'm gonna read to y'all,
even though it's personal. I'm gonna read to y'all.

Speaker 4 (45:56):
What text me?

Speaker 5 (45:58):
Well, Vincy Glenn, I was talking about you the other day.
I was playing golf with Toy Cook on Thursday, and
he asked me about something of the best DB's back
in the day. I told him you were one of
my best I ever coached anyway out anyway. Once I
got you to line up at fourteen yards not ten,
you were all right fall hope ball as well as you.

(46:22):
Just know that You're always in my thoughts, in my heart.
I love you, man.

Speaker 4 (46:25):
What I get, what I get out of that is uncoachable.
That's what he's says.

Speaker 5 (46:35):
Hey, miss, this is this is what he told me
when I first because in San Diego we pay a
lot of man, so I would line up at ten,
but I had rains and I could get up where
I need to get. But when I got to.

Speaker 6 (46:48):
Saw Wednesday, he kept telling me back up, man, back up,
put some money in the man.

Speaker 5 (46:53):
From yeah, Man, he called me to the back because
he always took someone in the dvs. In practice. We
were Maato. We got here, well, you.

Speaker 6 (47:03):
Call me to the back.

Speaker 5 (47:04):
He said, hey, two five, two five, come here. I
went back there and he said, man, I've been doing
this a long time. Man, more players make coaches than
coaches may put there, man, put some money in the bank. Man.
Just ain't San Diego a lot of time.

Speaker 6 (47:22):
More than nine yet eight yards? You might well play
live back, be lined up at fifteen deep and rings a.

Speaker 5 (47:30):
Lot up a twitted. But I started it because I'd
be lined up at fifteen. I'm coming downhill. I'm coming
down here, and it's just funny thing in the world.

Speaker 4 (47:39):
Hollis has got a question.

Speaker 9 (47:40):
I know, I know we're about to close out, but
just if you could just kind of go around the horn.
Just what are you guys up to nowadays and how
can the people get it get in contact with you
and see what you got going on.

Speaker 5 (47:53):
Well, I don't do social media, but I do. I
do a Bikings free game show before the bike game
for the fast few years on the fan out of
the Loot the Loute, So I do that. Other than that, man,
if you got my number, hit me up. If you
don't call somebody and know me and get a message.

Speaker 6 (48:20):
I like that.

Speaker 5 (48:21):
But I'm accessible like everybody in the world. I'm accessible.
I got a phone. If you got a phone on
you accessible, that's true.

Speaker 4 (48:30):
All right, yeah everybody?

Speaker 6 (48:32):
But yeah, oh man, I want a real estate investment
company here in Houston and Galliston, probably one hundred and
forty units. Still still married for thirty years and just
enjoying my life. People can reach me a great Scott
Enterprises dot Diz nice there you go. Okay, I'm like that.

Speaker 4 (48:58):
I don't do.

Speaker 6 (48:59):
You know, we're quiet. Were from old school.

Speaker 4 (49:01):
We don't do.

Speaker 6 (49:01):
But but at the end of the day, I'm still
you know, I've been married forty years, I got two kids.
I lost one two years ago. But at the end
of the day. All I asked her, I've fulfilled every
dream aspiration I possibly can. All I want to do
is be a vessel for others to use the mentality
or the knowledge that I've occurred over the last sixty

(49:23):
two years about to be sixty three at the end
of the day. I want to be a mentor to others.
One of the biggest disappointments I've had is that I
hadn't been able to share this knowledge about that bump
and run technique call because you know me and you
I'm still fighting with Jason Phillipson the Colorado Bulldogs because

(49:45):
he coached out there with d on them about how
to play bump and run. Man, I'll tell you I
had all them coaches, Willie Shaw, I had uh Saving,
Then we had what's his name coach for Denver. I
had all the best coaches in the world, and I'm
gonna tell youy aall something. They all taught the same

(50:05):
Carol Pete, Carroll Say, Rickard Shaw. Then we had Houston
Orleans coach Kenny Houston. Everybody taught me the same thing
about how to play DV. And I'm so grateful and
I thank God for an opportunity to be able to
come to Houston, I mean play in the Houston and

(50:26):
then come to Minnesota and play with such fine guys.
Because when Pete Carroll asked me to come on playing
V free Agency, he had a purpose and he gave
me a shot. Glennville was never going to give me
a shot other than Specialties, and I thank God for
that shot. But one thing I missed doing Carl is
not being able to pass that on and to take
this to my grave at bump and run technique. It

(50:46):
saddens me because a lot of these kids don't know
how to play d D. They put them in bad
situations and they get hurt and they blame the player.
But then they playing this coach, and you and I
both know that you can line up wrong, convinced it
and get beat. So those are the things that Barns
couldn't fash the game. That's why I don't even watch
it anymore.

Speaker 3 (51:07):
I'm with you, man, Lisa has one more question, and Mac,
I'm gonna talk to you about that.

Speaker 4 (51:13):
Okay, I'm gonna talk to you about that person.

Speaker 7 (51:15):
It's more of like a description.

Speaker 8 (51:17):
I just wanted you guys, in one word, to describe
something about Carl Lee that that you admired when you
played with him on the Vikings roster.

Speaker 7 (51:29):
One word, But we got a lot limiting you to
one word. Guy, I know this is really hard.

Speaker 10 (51:35):
This is hard for you, guys, Lisa, I'll go further. Okay,
I'll say complete. And when I say, he heard me
say this before. I've known a lot of corners who
can play press man or man the man coverage well,
and a lot of guys who could play.

Speaker 6 (51:53):
Zone well to well. Well, there are very there were
very few guys that was excellent and could do it
as seamlessly as Sea Lee did it on both ends
of the spectrum. So in my in my view, and
I've said this publicly many times on a lot of
different platform platforms, he's one of the most complete defensive
backs that I've ever that I've ever seen. Also, my

(52:13):
other world would be best dressed.

Speaker 7 (52:18):
We're making a compound word.

Speaker 6 (52:22):
I like it, don't you think? Don't you think that's
a little much, Vincy?

Speaker 5 (52:28):
Yeah, that was way too much, man?

Speaker 4 (52:33):
Can you can you move on? We run it out
of time.

Speaker 7 (52:35):
Yeah, let's hear. Let's hear the rest.

Speaker 6 (52:37):
One word from leadership. I appreciate it, man, because when
I got there, everybody knew who was in charge. Everybody
knew who ran things. And you know where you come
on the plane and tell everybody look out bad he's
look I mean, come on, man, you kept it together
in the secretary. Let us do the form, and we
knew who was our lady, and that that made all
the difference in the world.

Speaker 4 (52:57):
Thank you, man.

Speaker 7 (53:00):
Who's who's lap? Come we talk? We've got leaders.

Speaker 5 (53:07):
One word, here's the one word that describes the lea
leave me with him?

Speaker 6 (53:12):
Yeah, I love it.

Speaker 4 (53:23):
Hey, guys, we're gonna get out of here.

Speaker 3 (53:25):
Man. I appreciate you guys being on and uh we
we've got a set of time so we can all
get up in Minnesota at the same time.

Speaker 7 (53:34):
Thank you, guys.

Speaker 4 (53:37):
Talk to you.

Speaker 3 (53:40):
All right, ladies and gentlemen. We're gonna get out of here.
Hope you enjoyed the show.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
Let's Talk with Carl Lee as presented by Attorney Frank
Walker and the all new Historic Choir Diner. Come in
on episodes, ask the crew questions or suggest topics. On
our Facebook page. Search forward Let's Talk with Carl Lee
and remember to like the page to become part of
the conversation. Subscribe us searching Let's Talk with carl Lee
You're in your favorite podcast service, and tune in Thursday
evenings at seven or Sunday nights at eight for Let's

(54:06):
Talk with Carl Lee.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
If you fall, doesn't don't for get back up for
your feet. Anything can be a win, yup, even the
feet that says shit's a bath for you. Wise Visitary
Sweet couldn't play with big kids.

Speaker 4 (54:21):
I had to sit in the street and watch from
a distance. But over time I grew. If I put
in the work, in.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
No time, I'm doing everything that I worked and prayed.

Speaker 4 (54:29):
I'm okay.

Speaker 1 (54:30):
If you ask me how did I do it, I'm
gonna say. You gotta work, cry shine, just mine gotta show.
Everybody is my time.

Speaker 3 (54:38):
He ain't here.

Speaker 4 (54:38):
You gotta work, cry shine.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
Never mind who talk and died this day line, don't talk.

Speaker 4 (54:44):
You gotta work. You gotta work. You gotta work. You
gotta work, You gotta work. You gotta work.
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