April 24, 2025 • 57 mins
In this special episode of Let’s Talk with Carl Lee, West Virginia basketball legend and WNBA champion Alexis Hornbuckle joins Carl, Hollis, and Lisa for a powerful conversation about competition, mindset, and the evolution of women’s sports. From winning four high school titles to NCAA and WNBA championships back-to-back, Alexis shares what it takes to be a champion at every level—and how mental performance coaching is shaping today’s athletes beyond just physical talent. The crew also dives into the state of the WNBA, equal pay debates, and why it's time for real action—not just words—when it comes to supporting women's sports.
Then, the conversation shifts to NFL talk, with debates over Aaron Rodgers’ future, leadership in the locker room, and whether Travis Hunter can truly redefine pro football as a two-way player. Is it brilliance or burnout waiting to happen? An inspiring and thought-provoking episode that bridges legacy, leadership, and the future of sports.
Then, the conversation shifts to NFL talk, with debates over Aaron Rodgers’ future, leadership in the locker room, and whether Travis Hunter can truly redefine pro football as a two-way player. Is it brilliance or burnout waiting to happen? An inspiring and thought-provoking episode that bridges legacy, leadership, and the future of sports.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Yeah, you gotta work.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
You gotta work.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Bry Son is mine, gotta show.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Everybody is my son.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
You gotta work, right Son, Another mile sag of Dogs Day.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Welcome to Let's Talk with Carl Lee. Join Carl alongside
frequent co hosts Lisa Odie and Hollis Lewis as they
explore dynamic conversations with guests from all walks of life.
Let's Talk is proudly brought to you by Attorney Frank Walker,
Real Talk, Real Experience, Real results. Visit Frank Walker law
dot com. The conversation starts now, this is Let's Talk.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Hello, ladies and gentlemen, This is Carl Lee with Let's Talk.
And I have Hollis Lewis, what's so, What's up? And
Lisa Odie, who are my co host of the show.
And ladies and gentlemen, we have we have. I'm going
to say a spectacular guest today. We we typically and
(01:08):
I'm not taking anything away from our past guest, but
I think this one is to me pretty special, and
I think Hollis is gonna do the intro. Yeah, we
got you know, West Virginia basketball legend Tennessee former Tennessee
volunteer basketball player first round draft pick Alexis Hornbooker. How
you doing doing well? Great? Doing great? Alexis one of
(01:34):
the interesting things that I have from being from West
Virginia playing in the NFL and and when people try
to talk to you about like what it's like, what
it's all of that? Can you can you kind of
give people the insight of what your experience in the
(01:59):
in the w n b A was and is to
you even today.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Because you can dream it. Right. Obviously a lot of
athletes do in all sports, but very few reached that
level or reach that that their goals when it comes
to that level, And so like when you hear your
name called or you see it go across the screen,
however it goes for you. For me being there and
hearing my name called at number four, overall, like I
(02:29):
was just cheasing from ear to ear full full disclosure,
though we won the night before and then the draft
was the next day, so I was also like no sleep,
So it was very surreal. But it's just this overwhelming
feel feelings but just like joy, elation and and even
(02:50):
that sigh of release like Okay, I'm here, you know
I'm going.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
To ask one more tough question, probably, and then I'll
let everybody else jump in. When did you know that
you you were? You were that lady like you when
they call your name, you get out on the court
and you're like, oh, yeah, I can do this, and
not only can I do this, I could do it
(03:18):
at a high level. When did you get that moment
or did you get that moment?
Speaker 4 (03:26):
Yeah? I got that moment and it happened really young
for me. Honestly, it happened I was like nine or ten,
and I started playing organized basketball and soccer when I
was four, and I did travel soccer too. But we
came back from a national Yboa tournament. We were the
(03:48):
first team from West Virginia to win. It ended up
in Sports illustrated faces in the crowd, and I'm just like, wow,
I'm actually I'm right.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Well, well, well you're more than all right for sure.
And I'm just going to start to here now again.
So sometimes we do our little barbershop, the base and
all that Missus Hollis and a lot of times were
here in West Virginia, and I guess any state would
do it. They always talk about who's the greatest basketball
football player? D D. I would say, this is my
(04:25):
opinion that that Lexus Hornbuckle is the greatest basketball player
men and women ever in the state of West Virginia.
How would you respond to that, Don't give me the
humble because you all work. Don't give me the humble.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
You asking me to not give you something I would.
I would. I would definitely gonna argue that. You know,
you know, I'm not gonna disagree for sure, and I
would gladly, humbly accept that. I do definitely feel like
I put on I put in the word. And if
we're going back just looking at it statistically or on papers, yeah,
(05:05):
I think my resume.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Kind of because I mean, let's look at the paper though,
let's look at those statistics, because we got. We got
because you went to two different high schools. So you
went to Capitol first, did you go to South Charleston?
You want two championships at Capitol? Am I correct?
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Correct?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
You want two at South Charleston? Am I correct?
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Correct?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Yeah? Schools four straight championships in high school, which is
probably unheard of, except you know, maybe way back in
the day or something. McDonald's All American High School, All American.
You go to the program at the time, which was
Pat Summer's Tennessee Volunteers. So I would say, yeah that, lady,
(05:47):
excuse me, I would definitely say I think you could
hold that title, and I would argue anybody down with that.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
Yeah. Absolutely appreciate that. I appreciate it.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
Hey, Alexis, this is Lisa, So so thank you for
coming on to the podcast tonight. So one of the
things I wanted to add to what Hollis was just saying,
was one of the experiences that you had, and you
are one of the you are the only one that
had had this experience, was in two thousand and eight
when the Lady Vols the University of Tennessee won the
national championship, and then the very next year you win
(06:19):
another championship with the WNBA with Detroit Shock.
Speaker 6 (06:22):
Is that correct, yes, ma'am.
Speaker 5 (06:24):
So how was that experience? I mean, I'm sure you
were just elated about all that.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Oh, yeah, it was. And again it was something that
was real, like two thousand and eight happened. It was
a lot that happened in two thousand and eight, So
happened relatively fast, and your.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
Head was spinning. Really, I said, your head was probably spinning.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Oh, it was definitely spinning, and it was just hard
to really take it in because at that point in time,
as far as just missally and where my mental health was, like,
I was just really programmed for like what's next, what's next? Okay,
we did that, what's next? You know, just just chasing
success and winning because I hate los. So it was
(07:07):
just like it took me well into a couple of
months of being in this simbul turkey my first year
overseas playing for Bettie to be like, oh my gosh, like,
let me let me run that back real quick, like
it was wild. It was wild.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
When when was when was the first time that you actually,
let's say on the court, you really let's say, you've
done something, won the game, did whatever that made you
think like wow, like you know, like I am I
(07:45):
really am this person? Because I think there's a difference
in reflecting on being good, being great, being the best
and then in a moment that something actually happens to
make you say, yeah, I guess I really really am
You know you do you have that moment?
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Oh, I can't really pinpoint it because it didn't really
happen for me, like in a game, right, it's at
the park.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
It happened at the park.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
Yeah, like freetball, because you know, once you can compete
and hold your own, especially as a girl, Like it
hits different like, oh, I'm scoring at will now, Okay,
I can lock down, Okay, I can read defense better,
I can you know, my angles are getting better, like
just understanding the game, moving at a faster pace, getting stronger,
being able to make touch shots. Like all of that
(08:39):
for me was really happening from playing outside with my
brother and like in the neighborhood and stuff.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Yeah, And I want to talk on that because you know,
going from high and I talked about high school where,
like I said, you were a prolific basketball player here
in the state of West Virginia. I think you averaged
probably thirty points, probably darning or triple double maybe throughout
your whole years of high school. Then I can remember
watching you at Tennessee and I can see how your
game had changed, where you had become sort of an
(09:07):
all around not only contributing on the offensive end, getting rebounds,
getting to assists, you know, being a lockdown defender. Like
when you had to the transition in your game, how
would you sort of express that because I know you
do a little coaching too, So how would you tell kids, like,
you know, if you're going from one level to the next,
your game has to change, But that doesn't mean that
(09:29):
your production and you still won't get the shine that
you need.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Yeah. For me, yeah, I was. My father taught me
how to like evaluate the situation, know your role, and
then go dominate.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Right.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
So in high school I had to be that player, right,
I had to do it all. I had to sit
on both ends of the court. In college, yes, I
had to do it, but I also didn't have to
do it because I'm playing alongside all other mcdonald' all
Americans and high school all Americans, Gatorade all Americans. Yeah, so
I like to win, Like I said, So, if you're
(10:07):
a true winner, if you're a true competitor, you know
your skill set and you're confident in what you do,
and you stay coachable so that you can learn how
to adapt to any type of structure, any type of system,
any type of team, because things will change. Your game
will have to be evolved. It may have to it
may have to get sped up. You might have to
get stronger, you might have to study more film because
(10:30):
your basketball Q isn't at the level it needs to
be compared to your counterparts. There's just things that if
you think you got to figure it out and you
already and you ain't one not a championship or a
gold medal, or you ain't already drafted or in the
Hall of Fame, then you were you're doing it wrong.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
That's excellent. I think that's any athlete.
Speaker 5 (10:50):
Yeah, definitely, so absolutely, Oh for sure, Alexis So, I
know two thousand and eight when you were drafted into
the w NBA, it was it was early in that
actual league. And so now we're in the year twenty
twenty five, what are your thoughts on the growth and
future of the of the nw w NBA.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
Now, oh, I love the direction. Yeah, the women's game
as a whole in the past few years. You know,
the little petty part of me is like dang, but
I'm like ye. But on top of that, just the game,
the viewership, the participation, the support. Now you have other
(11:33):
other pro leagues, semi pro league happening, but the w
NBA is finally stepping up and doing the little things
like we shouldn't. I mean, we're charter flights versus commercial flights,
but you know those are I was shocked. Guys. Let
me tell y'all something I'll finished. I will finish answer
this question. Abad So sometimes I got to get this
out before I forget So. So in two thousand and eight,
(11:56):
of course, you know, I'm four years spoiled at Tennessee,
I'm in Detroit. We get in that itinerary to fly
out the next day, and they talked about we got
to be at the gymal four hours early because it's
the hours to the airport and we need to check
in two hours early first off check in?
Speaker 2 (12:10):
What is that?
Speaker 4 (12:15):
We don't up to the plan. So I'm very happy
for all the women in the w NBA and all
the future young ladies that will be a part of it.
Did they get to feel like a pro you know
how it should have been and that separation. And I
hope it continues to grow. I hope, you know, the pay,
the salary continues to grow up, the opportunity to continue
(12:37):
to grow because it's great for women's basketball.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
That was one of the things I was going to
bring up was the actual dollars, dollars and cents when
it comes to men's sports and women's sports. To me,
when I look at the w NBA and which I look,
which I would prefer to watch over the NBA. To
be honest, it looks they play harder. It's it's it's
(13:03):
it's just it's just a it's more teamwork. It seems
like just the whole thing. And I'm not even a
basketball player, but I would prefer to watch the w
n B a because of the work that they put in.
The question like, at what point in time do you
think that there's going to be a reasoning somebody's gonna
(13:25):
come in and say, Okay, look we got to up
this money, like right now.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
Like.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
What I mean, what is what do you think is
holding it back? Why? Is because I think everybody publicly
thinks it should be as close as way closer to
the NBA or as an equal to Like are we
wrong on that?
Speaker 4 (13:49):
No? Absolutely not wrong on that, especially if you're looking
at the money that's being thrown around.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
For n I L yeah, I did. That's a great point,
because I didn't. I didn't even look at that as
a point.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
You can't you can't say the money is not out there, right,
I'm not. I'm unsure how to fully answer that question.
Because it just comes down to doing. The people that
have the money, the people that have the power and
the positions do it. So until they they stop the
conversation and make it about action, it's it's going to
(14:22):
just continue to climb an increments rather than just take off.
But the good part about it is the conversation is
so loud now you can't turn it down. Right. We're
in the error of social media, instant instant information, so
it's harder for people to sell dreams in a sense
of oh, yeah, this would be a great idea, and
we know that people the w NBA needs more money. Okay,
(14:44):
so why are we not investing in this? Why are
we're not supporting it? Why are we're not helping the
raise the bar, the salary, the salary, cast and all
that good stuff. So until just words become action, I
don't have a better answer for you, to be honest,
hollis you.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Of course, Yeah, just like I said, you know, you
mentioned that you play soccer a lot of times when
we talk about on the show, we talk about, you know,
particularly what Coachly does in his day job as far
as developing youth athletes. What I always noticed about you
and I remember you playing soccer, and I also remember
you know you're just accolades on the basketball court. How
(15:22):
important was it in your early development just to be
an athlete. Didn't kind of focusing that in to being
a great basketball player?
Speaker 4 (15:32):
Man, it was. It's important because how you do anything
is how you do everything. So it doesn't it doesn't
matter what I'm playing or what I'm doing is I
think it's a competition, which almost everything is. To me,
I want to learn it, teach me. I want to
learn it. Now, I want to try it, and now
I want to master it or dominate it. So especially
(15:52):
in the sport world. And I'm the younger sister. My
brother and I were fifteen months apart, so I'm trying
to keep up with him, do what he does, you
know what I mean? And then growing up in the
bottom and dunbar and the most it's just like you
can't be soft. You can't. If I if I want
to play with the boys, I gotta want to compete
and beat the boys. So yeah, it just came down to,
(16:16):
like I want to beat the boys. I don't want
to be the best girl, Like I want to be
the best out here, right, So that was soccer. That
was basketball, and soccer obviously is an advantage when it
comes to conditioning, agility, right footwork, even court vision because
in angles, if I can make certain passes on a
soccer field, what am I going to do in ninety
four feet? That's easy money, that's nice?
Speaker 2 (16:40):
So so what what?
Speaker 4 (16:41):
So? What?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
What is? What is Lexus hornbook up to nowadays? What's
going on? Now?
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Oh man? Nowadays? I have a mental performance coaching for
pro athletes. I've been doing that for about four years now.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Now what is what is that? Explain that?
Speaker 4 (16:56):
Uh So? Mental performance coaching is exactly what it sounds.
So you know you have your strength and conditioning coaches,
your physical therapists, your athletic trainers, right, the people that
put you through your physical training. So on the mental part,
it's the mental training aspect of it. We know that
all sports or success in and of itself is about
(17:16):
at least eighty percent mental right physical or performance. So
if I can train my mind, if I can get
those muscles right, if I can figure out my triggers,
like why do I have negative self talk? Or if
I'm dealing with imposters imposter syndrome or intrusive thoughts or
lack of focus. You know, it's giving people tools. Sometimes
(17:40):
it's as simple as you know, pause and prey, meditate,
being intentional about mindfulness, whether that's reading books, taking walk,
whatever it is that you like to do outside of
your sport, but also daily routines, vision boards, setting goals.
And then what type of athlete are you?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Like?
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Do you are you more of an outcome goal person
and you succeed and thrive well in that? Are you
more of a process goal person? So do you care
about the finish line like I just need to be
number one? Right? Or for you to really perform to
get to number one? Do you need to focus on
the process goals? So in order for me to be
number one? What do I have to do right? And
(18:18):
every athlete is different. There's there's foundations and fundamental tools
and things that we share with our athletes, but it's
more about breaking that down and finding that right road
so that that mental performance elevates their sport performance.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
That's awesome, that's great. And you know what's interesting to
me as you were as you were going through that list,
I was sitting here thinking like, gosh, I can remember
writing on a piece of paper, first team All Conference,
first team All State North South football game for my
senior year, and you and and and you do work
(18:55):
toward that. But I don't know if kids buy into
that now, Like I don't know if they understand like
writing something down, saying it every day, looking at it
every day, that makes you work like cause like you're
going to put some work in. If those are the
things that cause you can't just put that on your wall,
walk and walk away and do nothing, to just sit
(19:17):
at the kitchen table like chilling. You got to put
work in. And I and I don't know if if
today's kids, young athletes understand the importance of saying who
and what you want to be?
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Right?
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Would you? Would you? I was gonna say, do you
agree with that? Because and and and where do you
get How do we get that to them? Now? Like
my mom my dad didn't necessarily have to get that,
They didn't have to drive that in me. It was
something that I think came with me and then they
magnified it in every area. Make sure you get your school,
(19:58):
make sure you get up and get your your get
out there and run and do those kinds of things.
Is that is that something that's lost now or are
we just over are we missing it, overlooking it or.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
What It's definitely lost in a sense of the majority
of the kids being able to have it in them
or do it on their own. They're having to be taught.
Even the parents are having to be taught. Really, and
I think that's necessary. One of the reasons we partner
with the YMCA here in East Tennessee and we actually
(20:31):
started implementing programs into local high school so where my
business partner and I we go in with one of
the y m c A reps and we talk them,
talk to them with the coaches in there, and we
get them a game plan for the mental aspect, the affirmations,
the list of gratitude, the routine, and we teach them
(20:54):
how to use it, why to use it journaling, And
it goes on for about four weeks or so, and
it's just it's just it's imperative for them to understand.
Everybody's good as you continue to get to higher levels, right, yeah,
so what's going to separate you apart? And everybody wants me, well,
I'll be faster than everybody. I can outjump everybody out
(21:17):
to know, because somebody's gonna be able to still run
and jump as fast and its high as you. So
what's going to set you apart? It's going to be
your mindset, your mental resilience, your mental toughness. How do
I bounce back? How do I pivot? How quickly can
I adapt? And when I am really pissed off or
I'm playing terrible, like, what do I do in these times?
(21:39):
You know what I'm saying. And the earlier you can
learn these skills and tools and start to implement them,
like intentionally practice them. Then as you continue to elevate
at collegiate and pro level, you know, it's like it's
like walking, you know, second nature any who you are.
So I think, yeah, it's it's much needed. It's missing
(22:01):
and it's much needed. So yeah, y'all holler at me,
go to elections, Hormbuckle dot com, reach out any of
my will figure it out. Because the company I work with,
we do schools, organizations, teams. Uh, we've expanded just from
pro league teams to all of what I just mentioned.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Yeah, give them the give them the website one more time.
Speaker 4 (22:18):
Alectionis Hornbuckle dot com.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Yeah, man, don't reach out, man, Hey, right, and if
you want, if you want, if you go to let's
talk with Carley on On on my Facebook page, send
me some of that information and hey, I'll shoot it
out there.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
Absolutely I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Yeah, yeah, because I mean because because, for a fact,
that is the most critical piece crib of anybody's hope
for success, not even to get to success, but I
hope to even have. And I would say, in addition
to athletics, just even in your professional career, because you
can have all of the things you talked about, the
negative self talk, to imposter syndrome, you can have that,
(22:58):
you know, as you elevating climb quote unquote corporate latter.
So everything you said is vital and and and definitely important.
And I'll say this before we close out. We got
the Carl Lee Award for the best defensive back in
high school West Virginia. We need to do. We got
a Lexus hornbook.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
And.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
I think we gotta start. I gotta talk. I gotta
talk to boss Man. You know what I'm saying. That's
her cousin is Sewn Hornbuckle, delicate. I call him boss Man.
So I gotta talk to boss Man. We gotta pick
that together. We gotta do that.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
But see this, this is my problem.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
This is my problem with what we don't do for
athletes that come out of here like that. That's that's
an easy see. I got this man on his so
I'm here now. That's that's my that is that is
my complete fight. Is just because for every kid, they're
gonna look at somebody that may be you, that be me,
(24:00):
that may be Hollans, that may be Lisa, that may
be anybody we got. You gotta celebrate that achievement and
and you got to put it out there to people
to see because we gotta we gotta do that. I mean,
we got to do that, and we just haven't done it.
We get mad at people, you know, we get mad
at Kurt Warner because he don't come back. But he
(24:21):
still was the number one draft pick in the league.
You still got he he was the best back in
the nation out of high school from Ponville, West Virginia.
You gotta put that out there. So that's that's just
I haven't I'm touchy about that kind of stuff because
I just know I don't think we do a good
(24:43):
job of allowing our young athletes to understand who came
before them and who you can be? See see if
Prime was, But you know Prime already got his son,
Jersey retire. We're dragging our feet, we're dragging off. Hey, Well,
we truly, truly, truly appreciate you being on and I'm
(25:06):
sure that there's a chance we may try to call
you back sometime soon.
Speaker 6 (25:09):
Thank you, all right, thank you.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
I appreciate it. All right.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Now I'm gonna I'm gonna just I gotta throw this
out there. I just got to throw this out there. Okay,
is there any possible way that there should not be
something with her name on it? Oh?
Speaker 6 (25:36):
Is there not?
Speaker 2 (25:37):
I would think an award for what I don't think
it is, because I mean, if you look at her
and Montgomery, it's gotta be it should be something.
Speaker 5 (25:46):
Right, I'm not sure the boys basketball do they have
like named after a players?
Speaker 2 (25:54):
But I don't know if they have like a I
don't even know if they got like a Dre West Award,
which is insane because we got Jerry West, you got
hot Rod Huntley because you got to West Virginia. Charleston,
how Towns is the only the only school with two
number one draft picks. So I forget the gentleman in
the fit.
Speaker 6 (26:11):
I'm looked it up, Jason Williams. That's another one awards.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yeah, so I mean, but when you say Lexis Hornbocal,
I'm talking about she's the great. She's she's arguably the
greatest high school basketball player to ever come out of
this state. And it's and to your point, she won
a championship in college the same she wanted w NBA
championship in one single year. And yeah, she plays at
(26:36):
the school for two years now, state championship, goes to
another school and a state champion for two more and
and go to college national and go to college and
w n B A.
Speaker 6 (26:47):
W n She's got a little bit of hardware.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
There's a common denominator in those championship. Yeah, of course,
So we definitely want to look into that see if
there's anything and if it's not, we got to start
petitioning that.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Well.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
One of the things I think, I don't know if
it'll happen, if we could find a way to get
people to come on the show who are part of
the recognition piece of it. Not I'm not gonna say
people who actually do it because they're not gonna come
because they're not going to try to justify why they don't.
But I mean, how, you know, how do we find
(27:23):
a method of Well, you you got the Inside School,
you got award.
Speaker 6 (27:30):
You're the guy with the show award.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Okay, but here's to the car Le Award. I so
appreciate it. I so appreciate it. I ain't not nothing
about it. And that's crazy. I didn't know anything about it.
Like nobody called me, nobody said hey, we're going to
do this. I did not know anything about it.
Speaker 6 (27:51):
That I didn't realize that.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Yeah, And that's what I mean, Like if you're going to, like,
for example, if you give out those works, because I
know they do, like the Athletic State, then after Jennerby
in the Winner after the football season, it's like, why
wouldn't you invite you to exactly to actually present for award?
Like I don't want to understand like how we do things.
And if and let me just say this, if by
some chance I missed a call or whatever and somebody
(28:17):
attempted to try to get to me, I may have
missed you, okay, but like I didn't know, like I
literally did not know that I was even that that
was even gonna be a thing that's wild, you know,
all right, So let's take a break and we will
be right back.
Speaker 7 (28:34):
Let's face it, bad things happen to good people seriously
injured in a car accident, trucking accident, or even wrongfully arrested.
Life happens, and when it happens to you, you will
need sound legal advice and aggressive representation. That's when you
call Attorney Frank Walker at three zero four four one
three zero one seven nine. That's three zero four four
one three zero one seven nine, Lock it in your phone,
(28:57):
text it to a friend three zero four four one
three zero one seven nine, or visit online at Attorneyfrankwalker
dot com.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
Let's Talk with Carl Lee is probably presented by Attorney
Frank Walker. Visit Frankwalker Law dot com. Share your thoughts,
ask questions, or suggest topics on our Facebook page. Just
search for Let's Talk with Carl Lee, and don't forget
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episodes anytime at wchsnetwork dot com, slash Let's Talk and
(29:28):
tune in Thursday nights at seven or Sunday evenings at
eight for Let's Talk with Carl Lee. Now back to
their conversation.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
All right, ladies and gentlemen, we're back guys, guy and lady.
That was That was. That was one of the interviews
that I will not forget for the simple fact of
so many positive things that she said about work ethic,
(29:58):
her own work ethic and all those kinds of things,
the things that she had to do, and where they
put her, and when you put wherever she went, championships
went with her. You know, she didn't go yeah, yeah,
she didn't. She didn't. She didn't go anywhere where there
was a championship. She went and made a championship. And
I think when you when you start looking at that
(30:18):
type of talent, you look at that type I can't
even imagine the mindset that she would have on the floor.
She ain't losing, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 6 (30:26):
She said that she's very competitive. You can hear it,
and you can you can hear it.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
You can hear it in her voice. All right, So.
Speaker 6 (30:36):
Speaking of competitive, speaking.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Of competitive, So this is a this is a topic
that I'm not necessarily I'm not sure how this is
going to go between me and Hollis Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 6 (30:56):
Mm hmm. Okay, he said, should we play the clip?
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Well, yeah, let's let's let Yeah, you got the clip
for us, all right, Yeah, let's play this.
Speaker 8 (31:06):
Every single one of the teams I talk to, you know,
laining about the money. I'll play for ten ms. You know,
I don't care. I never once said I need a
multi year deal. Thirty forty million dollars is absolute bull.
I said, I play for ten Yeah whatever.
Speaker 5 (31:25):
I'm just going to start this conversation right now before
we talk about the amount of money, the dollars and
cents of it. I mean, this is not a good
look for Aaron Rodgers. This whole sympathetic figure.
Speaker 6 (31:39):
Woe is me.
Speaker 5 (31:40):
I'll play for you know, ten million, and and just
the whole victim outlook that he's trying to that vibe
that is that is not him, And to me, he's
losing credibility.
Speaker 6 (31:51):
I don't know about you guys, but.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
I don't I think in his mind. I think this
is a pity party. Now. Yeah, we're four like, yeah,
I'm gonna play. Yeah, I can play. I can still
play the question ten ten you know, you throw ten
mil out and and in today's game, that ain't that's
(32:14):
not a quarterback, not quarterback, but what if he Let's
assume the reason why he hasn't gotten a contract, okay,
is because nobody thinks that he's really prepared. He's not.
I don't won't stay prepared. He he just doesn't have
it anymore. So if I give you ten the one
(32:35):
thing I'm guaranted, I guarantee you this, it's gonna be
guaranteed ten. Yeah, you know, so now you want you
want to guarantee me ten? I want you to guarantee
me ten million dollars and and I'm not sure. I
don't even know if I can play. And just to
put a clip just a little context, basically what happened
(32:56):
was he was in California, flew across the country, he
met with the and the new Jets coach, Aaron Glenn
basically just told him, hey, we're going in a different direction.
He was a little perturbed because he said, you could
have told me that over the phone. But I guess
the question I would have, like, if you're the stealers,
and I think that's who's the stealers are the Vikings,
that's who's talking about possibly him joining the squad, Like
(33:18):
why I just don't understand you. Again, I've talked about
it before. This is a different game as far as
the type of quarterbacks that we see winning and getting
deep playoff runs. We're looking at more athletic apematics, movement, movement,
who could move and actually run the ball. And then
you're and again, you're not a Tom Brady where you're
(33:39):
not like this revered team guy, this fearless leader who's
doing everything possible. He's eating all the little bird stuff
and doing all the new innovative exercise. You're not that guy.
You're not Tom Brady. So if I'm an organization, why
even at ten million, which is a bargain quote unquote
(33:59):
forour quote the back of maybe his caliber, Why go
that way? Why not just either get somebody I can develop,
or just get somebody in the draft or draft somebody who's,
you know, in their twenties. I just don't understand why
you would even bring him in at this point. He clearly,
to your point, he's kind of wishy washy about whether
he wants to play or not. And he's clearly not
(34:20):
the same player he was when he was with Green Bay.
Does anybody think does anybody think he can sit on
the sideline no and just be there. No. And that's
what you're not bringing him in for that Now, he's
not the mentor type, right. If he's not the he
could be he could be helpful, No, but I don't
believe it. But mentally he can't be. But I'm just saying.
Speaker 6 (34:40):
Ego gets in the way.
Speaker 5 (34:41):
That too much to ask of him. And the latest
thing that I saw just a few hours ago, which
came out on social media, I think it might have
been Twitter that the reason he has not committed to
a team yet is because he's waiting on the draft
to see, you know, to make a decision on where
he goes. Because he wants to make sure whatever team
(35:01):
he attaches his name to, he is the starter. He
does not want to be behind another name. So that's
the reason that he's holding out on a commitment.
Speaker 6 (35:09):
He's not close.
Speaker 5 (35:09):
He won't come out and say, you know, I'm going
to go play here or there, or you know, I'm
committed to fill in the blank whatever team it is.
You know, it's still he thinks it's mister Rogers neighborhood
and we're all here to serve him. And I loved
him when he was in Green Bay. You know, I'm
I'm a big Packer fan. We all know that giggles
from Carl over there, mister Vikings, But I'm a Packer fan,
and I you know, at that time when they went
(35:32):
to that Super Bowl one, that was the style of
play that a quarterback could be successful. But like you said,
the game has left him, it's changed, and he's gotten older.
But in his mind he can't wrap or grasp the
fact that all of those things are playing a factor
into whether or not he can continue his career. He
just can't accept the time to go.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Yeah, and I think most great athletes probably have a
hard time with boxes and all that. I'm just saying.
My comment is just like for a coaches that have
or the organization, why in the world would you bring
him in? There's to me, it's almost zero upside. It's
no upside to bring him in. In my mind, I'm
not a great leader, and I'm gonna I'm gonna, I'm
(36:14):
gonna agree. I'm gonna agree with you on that, Holisy,
simply because to your point, when you look at him
and you and you and you listen to him, what
you hear, he's not saying he's coming in as a backup,
and I think the Vikings had said something about like
(36:35):
maybe having him in and then having him you know,
so that you've got experience coming off the bench in
case somebody gets hurt or whatever. That ain't what he
wants and and and and to me, it's clear he's
looking for a starting job and that and and he
(36:56):
he he's not mobile enough. There's just no way he's
going to be mobile enough. I just don't think he.
I think there's a place in time where you have
to say that your game is done. I did it.
A whole host of people did it, and there's a
whole host of people on the other side who just
(37:16):
can't let the game go.
Speaker 5 (37:18):
And do you really think he would risk going out
there playing for just ten million? I know, I know
that's not a lot.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
You know, that's I think he definitely would, Like you
just said this, ego, I mean, I think his his
to prove everybody. He wants to win another Super Bowl.
He wants to at least get there. And I think
it it's just I have to get there. But I
think even to that point, even everything can leave you physically.
But if you're a quarterback and you're just not like
an absolute great leader that that other men want to follow.
(37:48):
Even if you lack some physical abilities, even if they
could pitt some running backs around you, you could they
could probably make up. He still has a good ball,
he could still slang it, so he's probably they could
probably you know, fill some holes and for everything that
he lacks. But I just think on top of what
you like physically and did you proven over these years,
(38:08):
But you're just not a great leader, not somebody that
other men want to follow. I just to me, is
over not I would just I would go young if
I was an organization.
Speaker 6 (38:18):
Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
He's not a backup. He's not going to be a backup.
He's not going to go anywhere. I don't think. No,
he's going to That's.
Speaker 6 (38:26):
Why he's waiting for the draft. I mean he will not.
He won't even.
Speaker 5 (38:28):
Attach to the Steelers who pursued him probably the probably
the most or the hardest, as you know, compared to
other NFL teams, And he won't even he won't even
like he he did fly to Pittsburgh and talk to management.
From what I understand it was, it was kind of
a funny story. It was part of the interview with
Pat McAfee because I happened to be in the kitchen
and I heard his voice and I was like, oh boy,
(38:50):
what's he doing? So I kind of listened to the interview.
But he flew into Pittsburgh. He flew into an outside airport,
rented it and Paula and drove over to meet with
the Steelers management. But he wouldn't make a commitment. So
to me, they must have said something along the lines of,
you know, we're gonna wait and see what we do
in the draft, what's available, and that's why he wouldn't commit,
(39:11):
because he will not sit on the sidelines.
Speaker 6 (39:13):
He's already made that clear.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
But see that that lack of commitment to them, then
might be that's it? Well, sure, I mean it should
be in I would think I would think when I
look at him, I would let me rephrase that, when
I think about all he's been through the years that
he's played, and I'm trying to figure out what can
(39:36):
he bring to me now, he could help me by
being around young quarterbacks, yes, explaining to them all of
these kind of things, but there is none of that
in him.
Speaker 6 (39:49):
No, I think he doesn't play second one.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
No, I think his whole existence is playing his whole
existence is I am great? It is, it is, and
it is difficult. It is challenging to consider yourself playing
at an elite level and then all of a sudden
finding yourself like realizing physically, physically, mentally, emotionally, all of
(40:17):
those things that you just don't have it, like you
just can't find it, like you just I wish I
had it, I wish I still had it, but I don't.
And there are those people which I think he is
that guy who is overlooking all of those messages that
that are pointing out to him, that are that are
(40:39):
saying to you.
Speaker 6 (40:40):
It's really sad, it really is.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
I think it's even I think it's worse that he
even said because in that clip, it's it's it's a
lengthy kind of a clip, that statement that he's making
to me. I think that that just makes you look
bad man.
Speaker 6 (41:02):
It's just a problem, yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
Because you don't really like you're not looking at it,
like you're not you don't really know, like you don't
really know where you are at this point.
Speaker 5 (41:13):
It's like he's going to these teams saying, not what
can what can I do for you?
Speaker 6 (41:17):
It's more like what can you do for me?
Speaker 5 (41:19):
You know, And that's not the right team oriented attitude
that works well in an NFL setting?
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Is there is there is there the things that make
you great also communit things make you bad, Right, that's true.
Any one of you think that, is there any quarterback
in the league that's that that's a starter that he
could play before But I think it's a lot if
you're just talking about just pure maybe if it's you know,
(41:48):
just a seventeen game run, but I just think it's
bigger than that. I just don't think you to me,
he could probably come in there and do some things,
but I think it would just cost you too much
any in so I think he could probably go over
there maybe because I mean, if you look at his
last year status, he threw for three thousand yards I
think twenty thirty touchdowns. It was a decent season for
(42:11):
Aaron Rodgers. But I just don't think long term is
just to me, it's.
Speaker 6 (42:15):
Just the it's the investment, the investment, the.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Cost analysis of what he the damage that he could
do to a locker room for me is just too much.
But I mean talking about the draft, we talked about
Travis Hunter. Now, there's been talks that Travis Hunter is
going to be. Some people say he's gonna be primarily
a dB and then to play a little bit of receiver.
(42:40):
Some people say he's gonna be primarily a wide receiver,
play a little dB. So what are your thoughts? What
do you think he should come in as and sort
of supplement as I'm gonna say, I would think he
would want to come in as a receiver. I'm gonna
I'm going to put him at receiver, utilize his speed, ulize,
(43:05):
utilize his quickness, his ability to catch the ball, because
I think if you if you bring him, if you
bring him in as a dB, the question now is, okay,
is that is that going to be a corner? Okay,
so now he'll be a corner? Yeah, okay. Well, you
know sometimes they switch it to say but he ain't
got nothing. I think the problem, I think the problem
(43:28):
that he has at at corner maybe would be one
is he still gotta you know, there's still the Dion
whole kind of thing, Like you know, everybody's still gonna
say he he Dion had he touched them, right, So
he's got to be that good. I don't think he's
gonna be that good.
Speaker 4 (43:48):
Now.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
I'm not gonna say he's not. I'm not gonna say
be outside of shadow now trophy. Okay, Okay, but again,
I don't know if he I don't know if he
gets that, if he's not under Dion. I just I'm
just I don't think a coach would probably allow him
to do what Dion allowed him to do. But I
think if any coach allowed him to do that, I
(44:10):
think he's that. Let me clarify too, I think he
deserved it. I think he deserved it. I really do,
for the fact he played, he could play and legitimately
played both ways.
Speaker 5 (44:24):
So so, oh no, I was just going to say that.
You know, it's kind of been the center of debate
for this draft, right because he really, he really wants
to go to a team that will allow him to
play on both sides of the ball.
Speaker 6 (44:38):
I mean, that's that's that's what my understanding is.
Speaker 5 (44:41):
I mean, he had an interview with a with a
sports reporter from CBS CBS Sports, and uh, you know,
he pretty much put it out there that he wants
to go to a team that will allow him to
explore both of them.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
So what do you think. What do you think the
primary position would be?
Speaker 5 (44:55):
Well, for me, I mean I think for him coming
in as a rookie, I think he should start at
defense and then slowly let him, you know, kind of
be integrated into an offensive skin.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
That's the way we've always seen it. We've seen it
defense to offense. We've never seen it offense to dec
That's what I'm saying. I understand. But here's the thing
I'm thinking, if if if I need a receiver, okay,
I can, I can get him. I can get him,
(45:30):
and if by some chance he's not good enough, there's
another place. So you're saying receiver would be the easiest transition.
I think so. So you said that'd be an easier
transition to bed. Where are you gonna play? Okay, So
everybody's got a different kind of scheme, right everybody. Everybody's
gonna be out in the islands a corner. Yeah, he's
(45:51):
a corner. The question is is he is he a man?
Some teams play more man than man than others. Can
he play man and man? We don't necessarily Just because
you cover guys in colleges don't necessarily mean you can
cover him in the pros. Again, the piece that we're
not thinking about is pro is not college. So everybody's look,
if you look at his statue, look at his plane,
(46:14):
forget it, forget all that. It's a whole new window.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
All right.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
So let me ask a different question. So usage rate.
So let's let's take that usage rate. Like in college,
he was playing one hundred plus players a game. Now,
obviously you ain't gonna be doing that in an NFL.
But from a usage rate, do you think that he
would actually be able to be more durable playing defense
and then supplementing you know, one two for receivers, because
(46:45):
I'm saying, if you're playing offense, I mean again, deep defense,
but y'all do a ton of running. But you know,
it's a different level of running straight ahead, you know
what I'm saying, Because like you said, if you're playing
a zone, it's it's different, right, So if you're doing
all that running as a receiver, then on the next
series you're gonna come in here and play dB. I
don't know. See here's here's and I understand exactly what
(47:08):
you're saying, and and and I'll even concede a little
bit to it. But what I will say is here's
the problem with it. To me, if he's a receiver, okay,
he's he he's got the ability to catch the ball, run,
all that kind of stuff. When he starts playing dB,
(47:29):
now that the physicality of that side of it is
now on him because you gotta tackle run. You gotta
come in and you gotta tackle running backs, you gotta
tackle some big receivers, you gotta hit a tight end,
you gotta you gotta take on alignment, that kind of
that punk, that type of punishment. So you're saying, like
(47:50):
doing that full time and then Seth will be harder,
to be harder. Okay. So another question, So if you say, okay,
he's gonna come in as a receiver, that's gonna be
the primary position, at what point do you pit him
as a dB and ready to throw the ball. If
he's such a great cover, maybe I put him on
the best the best receiver. I put him on the
(48:13):
slot guy. You know. So you know, so to me,
I see it that way. I see him more in
that situation, you know, because I'm gonna make the case
he's gonna be he's gonna be as talented because when
you play Dome, which is four D four corners. He's
(48:33):
gonna be as good as one of the He's gonna
be one of those fours. I'll give you that, Okay,
So when you play Nickel, you got three, he's probably
gonna he very well could be in those three. So now,
but he might be one of your top receivers. M
I mean, he definitely probably gonna be in the top
five because received receivers. You're gonna play five or six
(48:55):
receivers game, yes, and.
Speaker 5 (48:57):
It's gonna be a real challenge whatever franchise picks him up.
I mean, you think about it. I mean, he's gonna
go in the first round, and he's gonna go for
a significant amount of money. So whatever team picks him up,
they're gonna have to find a way to protect their
assets and protect their player. So you know, you're gonna
you're gonna.
Speaker 2 (49:12):
And they probably got a plan, yes, And I would
think they will be going to Cleveland. So I don't
know if they got to you said that, I don't know.
That's what I don't know. And see and and and
again to that point. This is like the this is
like the number one quarterback going to to the worst team, right,
(49:32):
you know, yeah, and and and now you're putting yourself
in a situation. So now the question goes. I go
back to your answer and say, I don't want to
be a receiver because do you have a quarterback for me?
Let me be a DV. And that's what I guess.
That's my point. Yeah, because you when you look at
usage rate, and the thing is, if you have a
(49:54):
bad offense, then to your point, you're going to be
getting beat up because you got a company receiver, got
to tackle, you got to take on block, you got
to do a lot as a dB. Then I got
to come in there and I'm running empty routes because
maybe I got a bad office line on my quarterbacks
not seeing me, and my usage rate is going to
be high, but maybe my production is not going to
be able to mag depending on where I'm going. So
(50:16):
I think, to me, I would almost circle it back.
You want to do what you do, and I understand that,
but maybe it also depends on where you land at.
Speaker 6 (50:26):
That's a good point.
Speaker 5 (50:28):
Person that are surrounding you, what kind of players, But
I mean, don't you guys agree to that. It's the NFL,
It's not college. Okay, he did phenomenal at Colorado playing
both sides of the ball. But when you get to
that level at the NFL, you've got to kind of
hone in on what your your specific position is and
just focus on that and so you can be the
(50:50):
best player that you can be at that position. I mean,
especially if you want to you know, if you have
Hall of Fame, you know, dreams and aspirations, you got
to be good at one thing and really really be
good at it makes sense.
Speaker 2 (51:04):
Here's a question, is I think maybe Dion might have
played some snap about to go there? Yeah, he might
have played a couple of snaps at receiver, but where
do we know him as we know him as a
DV kick returner. But but I mean, if you get
to your point earlier when you got the deon, because
I don't know if it's a Dion shadow has opposed
(51:24):
as much as is a Dion influence because Dion he
played he played dB, he played receiver, also played baseball.
So I'm thinking in Travis Hunter's mind, he thinking, well, heck,
if Dion played baseball and football, I can at least
play two positions on just playing football, and and so
he might be thinking like that too, and and and
(51:45):
it's justifiable because he's right there. He's right there with him.
But I'm gonna make like I said, man, Jerry Rice,
great receiver, he just played receiver. Yeah, Andre Risen, Andre Reid,
(52:07):
Sterling Sharp, all those dudes. Every good receiver I know
played receiver. And I bet you they played dB at
some point, yeah, but not a.
Speaker 6 (52:20):
Yeah, but not at the NFL level. Right, What I'm just.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
Saying maybe in high school, you know, they played both ways,
but they became one thing. If this is new, this
would be the new. This would be the newest thing
to add to professional football, a two way guy. And
I think Dion would love that to happen. To his book.
(52:46):
I just don't know how you, like I said, I
mean to your point, I mean, even if you look
at modern receivers, you look at the Randy Moss and
Calvin Johnson's and different things of that nature, I just
don't know how you play receiver. And like, if you're
like if you're a starting receiver or if you're you're
in the top basically, if you're in the top five,
which basically it means you're a starting receiver pretty much, right,
(53:07):
if you're in the top five rotation, maybe the fifth guy.
That means you can to come in probably almost every
series at some point. I don't know how you do that.
And then you play dB. We've never seen that before.
If he can pull that off, I mean, and then again,
how long can you pull it?
Speaker 6 (53:22):
Because that's another good point to that very point.
Speaker 2 (53:26):
They're gonna test this. Yeah, they're going to Yeah, they're
gonna test this. They're gonna want to see what he
can actually do. If it's I just don't think it's
gonna be sustainable.
Speaker 5 (53:38):
And the cerebral part of it, you know, you're you're
you're learning so many more complex plays and routes that
that you did compared to college. I mean, that's a
lot to have to learn and you know, perform on
the field.
Speaker 6 (53:50):
So that's another part of it.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
Physical and we've seen this before, Like you seen like
the Cordell Steward's right, but he played multiple positions on offense.
I've seen of Dick Verbel, Frank Verbel, he's a coach now,
we've seen him. He was a linebacker and he would
come in on the goal line packages. You see Taysom
Hill in New Orleans. But again, you just the way
(54:14):
he's talking about doing it is unpressed for modern football least.
I'm not mad. I'm not mad if he if he
if he's successful at it, you know, I you know,
I don't want to. I don't want to hate on him.
I would rather but I would rather him because again,
when you start looking at all of the the situations
(54:36):
that come with with football, all the contact that comes
with football. Now it's not as bad as it used
to be, but it's still gonna be out there. But now,
if you're playing on both sides of the ball enough
to where you're getting the ball, you're getting hit, you're
over on the other side tackling getting hit or hitting
somebody that ain't that is not a safety issue, you know.
(55:00):
I mean, now, what you're doing is you're like just
you're just asking for some kind of damage. Yeah, you know,
it's just too many people. Yeah, there's just too many
plays there, you know. And I just don't, you know,
I hope he doesn't. I don't hope he can't. I
(55:20):
hope he just doesn't do it. And I just don't
think there's a reason. There's not a reason to do
it other than just to say you did it or
you were the first to do it and all that,
and the credit falls all over the place. But by
the time he plays six, seven, eight years, then what Yeah,
(55:41):
that's gonna be the question. All right, Well, ladies and gentlemen,
hope you enjoyed the show. We're gonna get out of
here and we'll be back again next week.
Speaker 3 (55:50):
Let's Talk with Carl Lee is probably presented by Attorney
Frank Walker. Visit Frank Walker Law dot com. Share your thoughts,
ask questions, or suggests topics on our face Facebook page.
Just search for Let's Talk with Carl Lee and don't
forget to like the page to join the conversation. Catch
you patched episodes anytime at wchsnetwork dot com, slash Let's
(56:11):
Talk and tune in Thursday nights at seven or Sunday
evenings at eight for Let's Talk with Carl Lee.
Speaker 1 (56:18):
If you fall, doesn't don't for get back up for
your feet anything will be a win, yup, even the
feet that say shit's a bath for you. Wise vinitary
Sweet couldn't play with big kids.
Speaker 2 (56:27):
I had to sit in the street and watch from
a distance. But over time I grew.
Speaker 1 (56:31):
If I put in the work in no time I'm
doing everything that.
Speaker 2 (56:35):
I worked and prayed. I'm okay.
Speaker 1 (56:36):
If you ask me how did I do it, I'm
gonna say.
Speaker 2 (56:39):
You gotta work, cry shine, just mine.
Speaker 1 (56:42):
Gotta show everybody is my time here. You gotta work,
cry shine. Never mind who talk of dime this day line,
don't talk. You gotta work. You gotta work. You gotta work.
You gotta work. You gotta a work, You gotta work.
Yeah, you gotta work.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
You gotta work.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Bry Son is mine, gotta show.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Everybody is my son.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
You gotta work, right Son, Another mile sag of Dogs Day.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Welcome to Let's Talk with Carl Lee. Join Carl alongside
frequent co hosts Lisa Odie and Hollis Lewis as they
explore dynamic conversations with guests from all walks of life.
Let's Talk is proudly brought to you by Attorney Frank Walker,
Real Talk, Real Experience, Real results. Visit Frank Walker law
dot com. The conversation starts now, this is Let's Talk.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Hello, ladies and gentlemen, This is Carl Lee with Let's Talk.
And I have Hollis Lewis, what's so, What's up? And
Lisa Odie, who are my co host of the show.
And ladies and gentlemen, we have we have. I'm going
to say a spectacular guest today. We we typically and
(01:08):
I'm not taking anything away from our past guest, but
I think this one is to me pretty special, and
I think Hollis is gonna do the intro. Yeah, we
got you know, West Virginia basketball legend Tennessee former Tennessee
volunteer basketball player first round draft pick Alexis Hornbooker. How
you doing doing well? Great? Doing great? Alexis one of
(01:34):
the interesting things that I have from being from West
Virginia playing in the NFL and and when people try
to talk to you about like what it's like, what
it's all of that? Can you can you kind of
give people the insight of what your experience in the
(01:59):
in the w n b A was and is to
you even today.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Because you can dream it. Right. Obviously a lot of
athletes do in all sports, but very few reached that
level or reach that that their goals when it comes
to that level, And so like when you hear your
name called or you see it go across the screen,
however it goes for you. For me being there and
hearing my name called at number four, overall, like I
(02:29):
was just cheasing from ear to ear full full disclosure,
though we won the night before and then the draft
was the next day, so I was also like no sleep,
So it was very surreal. But it's just this overwhelming
feel feelings but just like joy, elation and and even
(02:50):
that sigh of release like Okay, I'm here, you know
I'm going.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
To ask one more tough question, probably, and then I'll
let everybody else jump in. When did you know that
you you were? You were that lady like you when
they call your name, you get out on the court
and you're like, oh, yeah, I can do this, and
not only can I do this, I could do it
(03:18):
at a high level. When did you get that moment
or did you get that moment?
Speaker 4 (03:26):
Yeah? I got that moment and it happened really young
for me. Honestly, it happened I was like nine or ten,
and I started playing organized basketball and soccer when I
was four, and I did travel soccer too. But we
came back from a national Yboa tournament. We were the
(03:48):
first team from West Virginia to win. It ended up
in Sports illustrated faces in the crowd, and I'm just like, wow,
I'm actually I'm right.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Well, well, well you're more than all right for sure.
And I'm just going to start to here now again.
So sometimes we do our little barbershop, the base and
all that Missus Hollis and a lot of times were
here in West Virginia, and I guess any state would
do it. They always talk about who's the greatest basketball
football player? D D. I would say, this is my
(04:25):
opinion that that Lexus Hornbuckle is the greatest basketball player
men and women ever in the state of West Virginia.
How would you respond to that, Don't give me the
humble because you all work. Don't give me the humble.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
You asking me to not give you something I would.
I would. I would definitely gonna argue that. You know,
you know, I'm not gonna disagree for sure, and I
would gladly, humbly accept that. I do definitely feel like
I put on I put in the word. And if
we're going back just looking at it statistically or on papers, yeah,
(05:05):
I think my resume.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Kind of because I mean, let's look at the paper though,
let's look at those statistics, because we got. We got
because you went to two different high schools. So you
went to Capitol first, did you go to South Charleston?
You want two championships at Capitol? Am I correct?
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Correct?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
You want two at South Charleston? Am I correct?
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Correct?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Yeah? Schools four straight championships in high school, which is
probably unheard of, except you know, maybe way back in
the day or something. McDonald's All American High School, All American.
You go to the program at the time, which was
Pat Summer's Tennessee Volunteers. So I would say, yeah that, lady,
(05:47):
excuse me, I would definitely say I think you could
hold that title, and I would argue anybody down with that.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
Yeah. Absolutely appreciate that. I appreciate it.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
Hey, Alexis, this is Lisa, So so thank you for
coming on to the podcast tonight. So one of the
things I wanted to add to what Hollis was just saying,
was one of the experiences that you had, and you
are one of the you are the only one that
had had this experience, was in two thousand and eight
when the Lady Vols the University of Tennessee won the
national championship, and then the very next year you win
(06:19):
another championship with the WNBA with Detroit Shock.
Speaker 6 (06:22):
Is that correct, yes, ma'am.
Speaker 5 (06:24):
So how was that experience? I mean, I'm sure you
were just elated about all that.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Oh, yeah, it was. And again it was something that
was real, like two thousand and eight happened. It was
a lot that happened in two thousand and eight, So
happened relatively fast, and your.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
Head was spinning. Really, I said, your head was probably spinning.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Oh, it was definitely spinning, and it was just hard
to really take it in because at that point in time,
as far as just missally and where my mental health was, like,
I was just really programmed for like what's next, what's next? Okay,
we did that, what's next? You know, just just chasing
success and winning because I hate los. So it was
(07:07):
just like it took me well into a couple of
months of being in this simbul turkey my first year
overseas playing for Bettie to be like, oh my gosh, like,
let me let me run that back real quick, like
it was wild. It was wild.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
When when was when was the first time that you actually,
let's say on the court, you really let's say, you've
done something, won the game, did whatever that made you
think like wow, like you know, like I am I
(07:45):
really am this person? Because I think there's a difference
in reflecting on being good, being great, being the best
and then in a moment that something actually happens to
make you say, yeah, I guess I really really am
You know you do you have that moment?
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Oh, I can't really pinpoint it because it didn't really
happen for me, like in a game, right, it's at
the park.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
It happened at the park.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
Yeah, like freetball, because you know, once you can compete
and hold your own, especially as a girl, Like it
hits different like, oh, I'm scoring at will now, Okay,
I can lock down, Okay, I can read defense better,
I can you know, my angles are getting better, like
just understanding the game, moving at a faster pace, getting stronger,
being able to make touch shots. Like all of that
(08:39):
for me was really happening from playing outside with my
brother and like in the neighborhood and stuff.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Yeah, And I want to talk on that because you know,
going from high and I talked about high school where,
like I said, you were a prolific basketball player here
in the state of West Virginia. I think you averaged
probably thirty points, probably darning or triple double maybe throughout
your whole years of high school. Then I can remember
watching you at Tennessee and I can see how your
game had changed, where you had become sort of an
(09:07):
all around not only contributing on the offensive end, getting rebounds,
getting to assists, you know, being a lockdown defender. Like
when you had to the transition in your game, how
would you sort of express that because I know you
do a little coaching too, So how would you tell kids, like,
you know, if you're going from one level to the next,
your game has to change, But that doesn't mean that
(09:29):
your production and you still won't get the shine that
you need.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Yeah. For me, yeah, I was. My father taught me
how to like evaluate the situation, know your role, and
then go dominate.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Right.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
So in high school I had to be that player, right,
I had to do it all. I had to sit
on both ends of the court. In college, yes, I
had to do it, but I also didn't have to
do it because I'm playing alongside all other mcdonald' all
Americans and high school all Americans, Gatorade all Americans. Yeah, so
I like to win, Like I said, So, if you're
(10:07):
a true winner, if you're a true competitor, you know
your skill set and you're confident in what you do,
and you stay coachable so that you can learn how
to adapt to any type of structure, any type of system,
any type of team, because things will change. Your game
will have to be evolved. It may have to it
may have to get sped up. You might have to
get stronger, you might have to study more film because
(10:30):
your basketball Q isn't at the level it needs to
be compared to your counterparts. There's just things that if
you think you got to figure it out and you
already and you ain't one not a championship or a
gold medal, or you ain't already drafted or in the
Hall of Fame, then you were you're doing it wrong.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
That's excellent. I think that's any athlete.
Speaker 5 (10:50):
Yeah, definitely, so absolutely, Oh for sure, Alexis So, I
know two thousand and eight when you were drafted into
the w NBA, it was it was early in that
actual league. And so now we're in the year twenty
twenty five, what are your thoughts on the growth and
future of the of the nw w NBA.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
Now, oh, I love the direction. Yeah, the women's game
as a whole in the past few years. You know,
the little petty part of me is like dang, but
I'm like ye. But on top of that, just the game,
the viewership, the participation, the support. Now you have other
(11:33):
other pro leagues, semi pro league happening, but the w
NBA is finally stepping up and doing the little things
like we shouldn't. I mean, we're charter flights versus commercial flights,
but you know those are I was shocked. Guys. Let
me tell y'all something I'll finished. I will finish answer
this question. Abad So sometimes I got to get this
out before I forget So. So in two thousand and eight,
(11:56):
of course, you know, I'm four years spoiled at Tennessee,
I'm in Detroit. We get in that itinerary to fly
out the next day, and they talked about we got
to be at the gymal four hours early because it's
the hours to the airport and we need to check
in two hours early first off check in?
Speaker 2 (12:10):
What is that?
Speaker 4 (12:15):
We don't up to the plan. So I'm very happy
for all the women in the w NBA and all
the future young ladies that will be a part of it.
Did they get to feel like a pro you know
how it should have been and that separation. And I
hope it continues to grow. I hope, you know, the pay,
the salary continues to grow up, the opportunity to continue
(12:37):
to grow because it's great for women's basketball.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
That was one of the things I was going to
bring up was the actual dollars, dollars and cents when
it comes to men's sports and women's sports. To me,
when I look at the w NBA and which I look,
which I would prefer to watch over the NBA. To
be honest, it looks they play harder. It's it's it's
(13:03):
it's just it's just a it's more teamwork. It seems
like just the whole thing. And I'm not even a
basketball player, but I would prefer to watch the w
n B a because of the work that they put in.
The question like, at what point in time do you
think that there's going to be a reasoning somebody's gonna
(13:25):
come in and say, Okay, look we got to up
this money, like right now.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
Like.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
What I mean, what is what do you think is
holding it back? Why? Is because I think everybody publicly
thinks it should be as close as way closer to
the NBA or as an equal to Like are we
wrong on that?
Speaker 4 (13:49):
No? Absolutely not wrong on that, especially if you're looking
at the money that's being thrown around.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
For n I L yeah, I did. That's a great point,
because I didn't. I didn't even look at that as
a point.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
You can't you can't say the money is not out there, right,
I'm not. I'm unsure how to fully answer that question.
Because it just comes down to doing. The people that
have the money, the people that have the power and
the positions do it. So until they they stop the
conversation and make it about action, it's it's going to
(14:22):
just continue to climb an increments rather than just take off.
But the good part about it is the conversation is
so loud now you can't turn it down. Right. We're
in the error of social media, instant instant information, so
it's harder for people to sell dreams in a sense
of oh, yeah, this would be a great idea, and
we know that people the w NBA needs more money. Okay,
(14:44):
so why are we not investing in this? Why are
we're not supporting it? Why are we're not helping the
raise the bar, the salary, the salary, cast and all
that good stuff. So until just words become action, I
don't have a better answer for you, to be honest,
hollis you.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Of course, Yeah, just like I said, you know, you
mentioned that you play soccer a lot of times when
we talk about on the show, we talk about, you know,
particularly what Coachly does in his day job as far
as developing youth athletes. What I always noticed about you
and I remember you playing soccer, and I also remember
you know you're just accolades on the basketball court. How
(15:22):
important was it in your early development just to be
an athlete. Didn't kind of focusing that in to being
a great basketball player?
Speaker 4 (15:32):
Man, it was. It's important because how you do anything
is how you do everything. So it doesn't it doesn't
matter what I'm playing or what I'm doing is I
think it's a competition, which almost everything is. To me,
I want to learn it, teach me. I want to
learn it. Now, I want to try it, and now
I want to master it or dominate it. So especially
(15:52):
in the sport world. And I'm the younger sister. My
brother and I were fifteen months apart, so I'm trying
to keep up with him, do what he does, you
know what I mean? And then growing up in the
bottom and dunbar and the most it's just like you
can't be soft. You can't. If I if I want
to play with the boys, I gotta want to compete
and beat the boys. So yeah, it just came down to,
(16:16):
like I want to beat the boys. I don't want
to be the best girl, Like I want to be
the best out here, right, So that was soccer. That
was basketball, and soccer obviously is an advantage when it
comes to conditioning, agility, right footwork, even court vision because
in angles, if I can make certain passes on a
soccer field, what am I going to do in ninety
four feet? That's easy money, that's nice?
Speaker 2 (16:40):
So so what what?
Speaker 4 (16:41):
So? What?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
What is? What is Lexus hornbook up to nowadays? What's
going on? Now?
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Oh man? Nowadays? I have a mental performance coaching for
pro athletes. I've been doing that for about four years now.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Now what is what is that? Explain that?
Speaker 4 (16:56):
Uh So? Mental performance coaching is exactly what it sounds.
So you know you have your strength and conditioning coaches,
your physical therapists, your athletic trainers, right, the people that
put you through your physical training. So on the mental part,
it's the mental training aspect of it. We know that
all sports or success in and of itself is about
(17:16):
at least eighty percent mental right physical or performance. So
if I can train my mind, if I can get
those muscles right, if I can figure out my triggers,
like why do I have negative self talk? Or if
I'm dealing with imposters imposter syndrome or intrusive thoughts or
lack of focus. You know, it's giving people tools. Sometimes
(17:40):
it's as simple as you know, pause and prey, meditate,
being intentional about mindfulness, whether that's reading books, taking walk,
whatever it is that you like to do outside of
your sport, but also daily routines, vision boards, setting goals.
And then what type of athlete are you?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Like?
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Do you are you more of an outcome goal person
and you succeed and thrive well in that? Are you
more of a process goal person? So do you care
about the finish line like I just need to be
number one? Right? Or for you to really perform to
get to number one? Do you need to focus on
the process goals? So in order for me to be
number one? What do I have to do right? And
(18:18):
every athlete is different. There's there's foundations and fundamental tools
and things that we share with our athletes, but it's
more about breaking that down and finding that right road
so that that mental performance elevates their sport performance.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
That's awesome, that's great. And you know what's interesting to
me as you were as you were going through that list,
I was sitting here thinking like, gosh, I can remember
writing on a piece of paper, first team All Conference,
first team All State North South football game for my
senior year, and you and and and you do work
(18:55):
toward that. But I don't know if kids buy into
that now, Like I don't know if they understand like
writing something down, saying it every day, looking at it
every day, that makes you work like cause like you're
going to put some work in. If those are the
things that cause you can't just put that on your wall,
walk and walk away and do nothing, to just sit
(19:17):
at the kitchen table like chilling. You got to put
work in. And I and I don't know if if
today's kids, young athletes understand the importance of saying who
and what you want to be?
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Right?
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Would you? Would you? I was gonna say, do you
agree with that? Because and and and where do you
get How do we get that to them? Now? Like
my mom my dad didn't necessarily have to get that,
They didn't have to drive that in me. It was
something that I think came with me and then they
magnified it in every area. Make sure you get your school,
(19:58):
make sure you get up and get your your get
out there and run and do those kinds of things.
Is that is that something that's lost now or are
we just over are we missing it, overlooking it or.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
What It's definitely lost in a sense of the majority
of the kids being able to have it in them
or do it on their own. They're having to be taught.
Even the parents are having to be taught. Really, and
I think that's necessary. One of the reasons we partner
with the YMCA here in East Tennessee and we actually
(20:31):
started implementing programs into local high school so where my
business partner and I we go in with one of
the y m c A reps and we talk them,
talk to them with the coaches in there, and we
get them a game plan for the mental aspect, the affirmations,
the list of gratitude, the routine, and we teach them
(20:54):
how to use it, why to use it journaling, And
it goes on for about four weeks or so, and
it's just it's just it's imperative for them to understand.
Everybody's good as you continue to get to higher levels, right, yeah,
so what's going to separate you apart? And everybody wants me, well,
I'll be faster than everybody. I can outjump everybody out
(21:17):
to know, because somebody's gonna be able to still run
and jump as fast and its high as you. So
what's going to set you apart? It's going to be
your mindset, your mental resilience, your mental toughness. How do
I bounce back? How do I pivot? How quickly can
I adapt? And when I am really pissed off or
I'm playing terrible, like, what do I do in these times?
(21:39):
You know what I'm saying. And the earlier you can
learn these skills and tools and start to implement them,
like intentionally practice them. Then as you continue to elevate
at collegiate and pro level, you know, it's like it's
like walking, you know, second nature any who you are.
So I think, yeah, it's it's much needed. It's missing
(22:01):
and it's much needed. So yeah, y'all holler at me,
go to elections, Hormbuckle dot com, reach out any of
my will figure it out. Because the company I work with,
we do schools, organizations, teams. Uh, we've expanded just from
pro league teams to all of what I just mentioned.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Yeah, give them the give them the website one more time.
Speaker 4 (22:18):
Alectionis Hornbuckle dot com.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Yeah, man, don't reach out, man, Hey, right, and if
you want, if you want, if you go to let's
talk with Carley on On on my Facebook page, send
me some of that information and hey, I'll shoot it
out there.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
Absolutely I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Yeah, yeah, because I mean because because, for a fact,
that is the most critical piece crib of anybody's hope
for success, not even to get to success, but I
hope to even have. And I would say, in addition
to athletics, just even in your professional career, because you
can have all of the things you talked about, the
negative self talk, to imposter syndrome, you can have that,
(22:58):
you know, as you elevating climb quote unquote corporate latter.
So everything you said is vital and and and definitely important.
And I'll say this before we close out. We got
the Carl Lee Award for the best defensive back in
high school West Virginia. We need to do. We got
a Lexus hornbook.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
And.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
I think we gotta start. I gotta talk. I gotta
talk to boss Man. You know what I'm saying. That's
her cousin is Sewn Hornbuckle, delicate. I call him boss Man.
So I gotta talk to boss Man. We gotta pick
that together. We gotta do that.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
But see this, this is my problem.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
This is my problem with what we don't do for
athletes that come out of here like that. That's that's
an easy see. I got this man on his so
I'm here now. That's that's my that is that is
my complete fight. Is just because for every kid, they're
gonna look at somebody that may be you, that be me,
(24:00):
that may be Hollans, that may be Lisa, that may
be anybody we got. You gotta celebrate that achievement and
and you got to put it out there to people
to see because we gotta we gotta do that. I mean,
we got to do that, and we just haven't done it.
We get mad at people, you know, we get mad
at Kurt Warner because he don't come back. But he
(24:21):
still was the number one draft pick in the league.
You still got he he was the best back in
the nation out of high school from Ponville, West Virginia.
You gotta put that out there. So that's that's just
I haven't I'm touchy about that kind of stuff because
I just know I don't think we do a good
(24:43):
job of allowing our young athletes to understand who came
before them and who you can be? See see if
Prime was, But you know Prime already got his son,
Jersey retire. We're dragging our feet, we're dragging off. Hey, Well,
we truly, truly, truly appreciate you being on and I'm
(25:06):
sure that there's a chance we may try to call
you back sometime soon.
Speaker 6 (25:09):
Thank you, all right, thank you.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
I appreciate it. All right.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Now I'm gonna I'm gonna just I gotta throw this
out there. I just got to throw this out there. Okay,
is there any possible way that there should not be
something with her name on it? Oh?
Speaker 6 (25:36):
Is there not?
Speaker 2 (25:37):
I would think an award for what I don't think
it is, because I mean, if you look at her
and Montgomery, it's gotta be it should be something.
Speaker 5 (25:46):
Right, I'm not sure the boys basketball do they have
like named after a players?
Speaker 2 (25:54):
But I don't know if they have like a I
don't even know if they got like a Dre West Award,
which is insane because we got Jerry West, you got
hot Rod Huntley because you got to West Virginia. Charleston,
how Towns is the only the only school with two
number one draft picks. So I forget the gentleman in
the fit.
Speaker 6 (26:11):
I'm looked it up, Jason Williams. That's another one awards.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yeah, so I mean, but when you say Lexis Hornbocal,
I'm talking about she's the great. She's she's arguably the
greatest high school basketball player to ever come out of
this state. And it's and to your point, she won
a championship in college the same she wanted w NBA
championship in one single year. And yeah, she plays at
(26:36):
the school for two years now, state championship, goes to
another school and a state champion for two more and
and go to college national and go to college and
w n B A.
Speaker 6 (26:47):
W n She's got a little bit of hardware.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
There's a common denominator in those championship. Yeah, of course,
So we definitely want to look into that see if
there's anything and if it's not, we got to start
petitioning that.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Well.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
One of the things I think, I don't know if
it'll happen, if we could find a way to get
people to come on the show who are part of
the recognition piece of it. Not I'm not gonna say
people who actually do it because they're not gonna come
because they're not going to try to justify why they don't.
But I mean, how, you know, how do we find
(27:23):
a method of Well, you you got the Inside School,
you got award.
Speaker 6 (27:30):
You're the guy with the show award.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Okay, but here's to the car Le Award. I so
appreciate it. I so appreciate it. I ain't not nothing
about it. And that's crazy. I didn't know anything about it.
Like nobody called me, nobody said hey, we're going to
do this. I did not know anything about it.
Speaker 6 (27:51):
That I didn't realize that.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Yeah, And that's what I mean, Like if you're going to, like,
for example, if you give out those works, because I
know they do, like the Athletic State, then after Jennerby
in the Winner after the football season, it's like, why
wouldn't you invite you to exactly to actually present for award?
Like I don't want to understand like how we do things.
And if and let me just say this, if by
some chance I missed a call or whatever and somebody
(28:17):
attempted to try to get to me, I may have
missed you, okay, but like I didn't know, like I
literally did not know that I was even that that
was even gonna be a thing that's wild, you know,
all right, So let's take a break and we will
be right back.
Speaker 7 (28:34):
Let's face it, bad things happen to good people seriously
injured in a car accident, trucking accident, or even wrongfully arrested.
Life happens, and when it happens to you, you will
need sound legal advice and aggressive representation. That's when you
call Attorney Frank Walker at three zero four four one
three zero one seven nine. That's three zero four four
one three zero one seven nine, Lock it in your phone,
(28:57):
text it to a friend three zero four four one
three zero one seven nine, or visit online at Attorneyfrankwalker
dot com.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
Let's Talk with Carl Lee is probably presented by Attorney
Frank Walker. Visit Frankwalker Law dot com. Share your thoughts,
ask questions, or suggest topics on our Facebook page. Just
search for Let's Talk with Carl Lee, and don't forget
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episodes anytime at wchsnetwork dot com, slash Let's Talk and
(29:28):
tune in Thursday nights at seven or Sunday evenings at
eight for Let's Talk with Carl Lee. Now back to
their conversation.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
All right, ladies and gentlemen, we're back guys, guy and lady.
That was That was. That was one of the interviews
that I will not forget for the simple fact of
so many positive things that she said about work ethic,
(29:58):
her own work ethic and all those kinds of things,
the things that she had to do, and where they
put her, and when you put wherever she went, championships
went with her. You know, she didn't go yeah, yeah,
she didn't. She didn't. She didn't go anywhere where there
was a championship. She went and made a championship. And
I think when you when you start looking at that
(30:18):
type of talent, you look at that type I can't
even imagine the mindset that she would have on the floor.
She ain't losing, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 6 (30:26):
She said that she's very competitive. You can hear it,
and you can you can hear it.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
You can hear it in her voice. All right, So.
Speaker 6 (30:36):
Speaking of competitive, speaking.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Of competitive, So this is a this is a topic
that I'm not necessarily I'm not sure how this is
going to go between me and Hollis Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 6 (30:56):
Mm hmm. Okay, he said, should we play the clip?
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Well, yeah, let's let's let Yeah, you got the clip
for us, all right, Yeah, let's play this.
Speaker 8 (31:06):
Every single one of the teams I talk to, you know,
laining about the money. I'll play for ten ms. You know,
I don't care. I never once said I need a
multi year deal. Thirty forty million dollars is absolute bull.
I said, I play for ten Yeah whatever.
Speaker 5 (31:25):
I'm just going to start this conversation right now before
we talk about the amount of money, the dollars and
cents of it. I mean, this is not a good
look for Aaron Rodgers. This whole sympathetic figure.
Speaker 6 (31:39):
Woe is me.
Speaker 5 (31:40):
I'll play for you know, ten million, and and just
the whole victim outlook that he's trying to that vibe
that is that is not him, And to me, he's
losing credibility.
Speaker 6 (31:51):
I don't know about you guys, but.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
I don't I think in his mind. I think this
is a pity party. Now. Yeah, we're four like, yeah,
I'm gonna play. Yeah, I can play. I can still
play the question ten ten you know, you throw ten
mil out and and in today's game, that ain't that's
(32:14):
not a quarterback, not quarterback, but what if he Let's
assume the reason why he hasn't gotten a contract, okay,
is because nobody thinks that he's really prepared. He's not.
I don't won't stay prepared. He he just doesn't have
it anymore. So if I give you ten the one
(32:35):
thing I'm guaranted, I guarantee you this, it's gonna be
guaranteed ten. Yeah, you know, so now you want you
want to guarantee me ten? I want you to guarantee
me ten million dollars and and I'm not sure. I
don't even know if I can play. And just to
put a clip just a little context, basically what happened
(32:56):
was he was in California, flew across the country, he
met with the and the new Jets coach, Aaron Glenn
basically just told him, hey, we're going in a different direction.
He was a little perturbed because he said, you could
have told me that over the phone. But I guess
the question I would have, like, if you're the stealers,
and I think that's who's the stealers are the Vikings,
that's who's talking about possibly him joining the squad, Like
(33:18):
why I just don't understand you. Again, I've talked about
it before. This is a different game as far as
the type of quarterbacks that we see winning and getting
deep playoff runs. We're looking at more athletic apematics, movement, movement,
who could move and actually run the ball. And then
you're and again, you're not a Tom Brady where you're
(33:39):
not like this revered team guy, this fearless leader who's
doing everything possible. He's eating all the little bird stuff
and doing all the new innovative exercise. You're not that guy.
You're not Tom Brady. So if I'm an organization, why
even at ten million, which is a bargain quote unquote
(33:59):
forour quote the back of maybe his caliber, Why go
that way? Why not just either get somebody I can develop,
or just get somebody in the draft or draft somebody who's,
you know, in their twenties. I just don't understand why
you would even bring him in at this point. He clearly,
to your point, he's kind of wishy washy about whether
he wants to play or not. And he's clearly not
(34:20):
the same player he was when he was with Green Bay.
Does anybody think does anybody think he can sit on
the sideline no and just be there. No. And that's
what you're not bringing him in for that Now, he's
not the mentor type, right. If he's not the he
could be he could be helpful, No, but I don't
believe it. But mentally he can't be. But I'm just saying.
Speaker 6 (34:40):
Ego gets in the way.
Speaker 5 (34:41):
That too much to ask of him. And the latest
thing that I saw just a few hours ago, which
came out on social media, I think it might have
been Twitter that the reason he has not committed to
a team yet is because he's waiting on the draft
to see, you know, to make a decision on where
he goes. Because he wants to make sure whatever team
(35:01):
he attaches his name to, he is the starter. He
does not want to be behind another name. So that's
the reason that he's holding out on a commitment.
Speaker 6 (35:09):
He's not close.
Speaker 5 (35:09):
He won't come out and say, you know, I'm going
to go play here or there, or you know, I'm
committed to fill in the blank whatever team it is.
You know, it's still he thinks it's mister Rogers neighborhood
and we're all here to serve him. And I loved
him when he was in Green Bay. You know, I'm
I'm a big Packer fan. We all know that giggles
from Carl over there, mister Vikings, But I'm a Packer fan,
and I you know, at that time when they went
(35:32):
to that Super Bowl one, that was the style of
play that a quarterback could be successful. But like you said,
the game has left him, it's changed, and he's gotten older.
But in his mind he can't wrap or grasp the
fact that all of those things are playing a factor
into whether or not he can continue his career. He
just can't accept the time to go.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Yeah, and I think most great athletes probably have a
hard time with boxes and all that. I'm just saying.
My comment is just like for a coaches that have
or the organization, why in the world would you bring
him in? There's to me, it's almost zero upside. It's
no upside to bring him in. In my mind, I'm
not a great leader, and I'm gonna I'm gonna, I'm
(36:14):
gonna agree. I'm gonna agree with you on that, Holisy,
simply because to your point, when you look at him
and you and you and you listen to him, what
you hear, he's not saying he's coming in as a backup,
and I think the Vikings had said something about like
(36:35):
maybe having him in and then having him you know,
so that you've got experience coming off the bench in
case somebody gets hurt or whatever. That ain't what he
wants and and and and to me, it's clear he's
looking for a starting job and that and and he
(36:56):
he he's not mobile enough. There's just no way he's
going to be mobile enough. I just don't think he.
I think there's a place in time where you have
to say that your game is done. I did it.
A whole host of people did it, and there's a
whole host of people on the other side who just
(37:16):
can't let the game go.
Speaker 5 (37:18):
And do you really think he would risk going out
there playing for just ten million? I know, I know
that's not a lot.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
You know, that's I think he definitely would, Like you
just said this, ego, I mean, I think his his
to prove everybody. He wants to win another Super Bowl.
He wants to at least get there. And I think
it it's just I have to get there. But I
think even to that point, even everything can leave you physically.
But if you're a quarterback and you're just not like
an absolute great leader that that other men want to follow.
(37:48):
Even if you lack some physical abilities, even if they
could pitt some running backs around you, you could they
could probably make up. He still has a good ball,
he could still slang it, so he's probably they could
probably you know, fill some holes and for everything that
he lacks. But I just think on top of what
you like physically and did you proven over these years,
(38:08):
But you're just not a great leader, not somebody that
other men want to follow. I just to me, is
over not I would just I would go young if
I was an organization.
Speaker 6 (38:18):
Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
He's not a backup. He's not going to be a backup.
He's not going to go anywhere. I don't think. No,
he's going to That's.
Speaker 6 (38:26):
Why he's waiting for the draft. I mean he will not.
He won't even.
Speaker 5 (38:28):
Attach to the Steelers who pursued him probably the probably
the most or the hardest, as you know, compared to
other NFL teams, And he won't even he won't even
like he he did fly to Pittsburgh and talk to management.
From what I understand it was, it was kind of
a funny story. It was part of the interview with
Pat McAfee because I happened to be in the kitchen
and I heard his voice and I was like, oh boy,
(38:50):
what's he doing? So I kind of listened to the interview.
But he flew into Pittsburgh. He flew into an outside airport,
rented it and Paula and drove over to meet with
the Steelers management. But he wouldn't make a commitment. So
to me, they must have said something along the lines of,
you know, we're gonna wait and see what we do
in the draft, what's available, and that's why he wouldn't commit,
(39:11):
because he will not sit on the sidelines.
Speaker 6 (39:13):
He's already made that clear.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
But see that that lack of commitment to them, then
might be that's it? Well, sure, I mean it should
be in I would think I would think when I
look at him, I would let me rephrase that, when
I think about all he's been through the years that
he's played, and I'm trying to figure out what can
(39:36):
he bring to me now, he could help me by
being around young quarterbacks, yes, explaining to them all of
these kind of things, but there is none of that
in him.
Speaker 6 (39:49):
No, I think he doesn't play second one.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
No, I think his whole existence is playing his whole
existence is I am great? It is, it is, and
it is difficult. It is challenging to consider yourself playing
at an elite level and then all of a sudden
finding yourself like realizing physically, physically, mentally, emotionally, all of
(40:17):
those things that you just don't have it, like you
just can't find it, like you just I wish I
had it, I wish I still had it, but I don't.
And there are those people which I think he is
that guy who is overlooking all of those messages that
that are pointing out to him, that are that are
(40:39):
saying to you.
Speaker 6 (40:40):
It's really sad, it really is.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
I think it's even I think it's worse that he
even said because in that clip, it's it's it's a
lengthy kind of a clip, that statement that he's making
to me. I think that that just makes you look
bad man.
Speaker 6 (41:02):
It's just a problem, yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
Because you don't really like you're not looking at it,
like you're not you don't really know, like you don't
really know where you are at this point.
Speaker 5 (41:13):
It's like he's going to these teams saying, not what
can what can I do for you?
Speaker 6 (41:17):
It's more like what can you do for me?
Speaker 5 (41:19):
You know, And that's not the right team oriented attitude
that works well in an NFL setting?
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Is there is there is there the things that make
you great also communit things make you bad, Right, that's true.
Any one of you think that, is there any quarterback
in the league that's that that's a starter that he
could play before But I think it's a lot if
you're just talking about just pure maybe if it's you know,
(41:48):
just a seventeen game run, but I just think it's
bigger than that. I just don't think you to me,
he could probably come in there and do some things,
but I think it would just cost you too much
any in so I think he could probably go over
there maybe because I mean, if you look at his
last year status, he threw for three thousand yards I
think twenty thirty touchdowns. It was a decent season for
(42:11):
Aaron Rodgers. But I just don't think long term is
just to me, it's.
Speaker 6 (42:15):
Just the it's the investment, the investment, the.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Cost analysis of what he the damage that he could
do to a locker room for me is just too much.
But I mean talking about the draft, we talked about
Travis Hunter. Now, there's been talks that Travis Hunter is
going to be. Some people say he's gonna be primarily
a dB and then to play a little bit of receiver.
(42:40):
Some people say he's gonna be primarily a wide receiver,
play a little dB. So what are your thoughts? What
do you think he should come in as and sort
of supplement as I'm gonna say, I would think he
would want to come in as a receiver. I'm gonna
I'm going to put him at receiver, utilize his speed, ulize,
(43:05):
utilize his quickness, his ability to catch the ball, because
I think if you if you bring him, if you
bring him in as a dB, the question now is, okay,
is that is that going to be a corner? Okay,
so now he'll be a corner? Yeah, okay. Well, you
know sometimes they switch it to say but he ain't
got nothing. I think the problem, I think the problem
(43:28):
that he has at at corner maybe would be one
is he still gotta you know, there's still the Dion
whole kind of thing, Like you know, everybody's still gonna
say he he Dion had he touched them, right, So
he's got to be that good. I don't think he's
gonna be that good.
Speaker 4 (43:48):
Now.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
I'm not gonna say he's not. I'm not gonna say
be outside of shadow now trophy. Okay, Okay, but again,
I don't know if he I don't know if he
gets that, if he's not under Dion. I just I'm
just I don't think a coach would probably allow him
to do what Dion allowed him to do. But I
think if any coach allowed him to do that, I
(44:10):
think he's that. Let me clarify too, I think he
deserved it. I think he deserved it. I really do,
for the fact he played, he could play and legitimately
played both ways.
Speaker 5 (44:24):
So so, oh no, I was just going to say that.
You know, it's kind of been the center of debate
for this draft, right because he really, he really wants
to go to a team that will allow him to
play on both sides of the ball.
Speaker 6 (44:38):
I mean, that's that's that's what my understanding is.
Speaker 5 (44:41):
I mean, he had an interview with a with a
sports reporter from CBS CBS Sports, and uh, you know,
he pretty much put it out there that he wants
to go to a team that will allow him to
explore both of them.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
So what do you think. What do you think the
primary position would be?
Speaker 5 (44:55):
Well, for me, I mean I think for him coming
in as a rookie, I think he should start at
defense and then slowly let him, you know, kind of
be integrated into an offensive skin.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
That's the way we've always seen it. We've seen it
defense to offense. We've never seen it offense to dec
That's what I'm saying. I understand. But here's the thing
I'm thinking, if if if I need a receiver, okay,
I can, I can get him. I can get him,
(45:30):
and if by some chance he's not good enough, there's
another place. So you're saying receiver would be the easiest transition.
I think so. So you said that'd be an easier
transition to bed. Where are you gonna play? Okay, So
everybody's got a different kind of scheme, right everybody. Everybody's
gonna be out in the islands a corner. Yeah, he's
(45:51):
a corner. The question is is he is he a man?
Some teams play more man than man than others. Can
he play man and man? We don't necessarily Just because
you cover guys in colleges don't necessarily mean you can
cover him in the pros. Again, the piece that we're
not thinking about is pro is not college. So everybody's look,
if you look at his statue, look at his plane,
(46:14):
forget it, forget all that. It's a whole new window.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
All right.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
So let me ask a different question. So usage rate.
So let's let's take that usage rate. Like in college,
he was playing one hundred plus players a game. Now,
obviously you ain't gonna be doing that in an NFL.
But from a usage rate, do you think that he
would actually be able to be more durable playing defense
and then supplementing you know, one two for receivers, because
(46:45):
I'm saying, if you're playing offense, I mean again, deep defense,
but y'all do a ton of running. But you know,
it's a different level of running straight ahead, you know
what I'm saying, Because like you said, if you're playing
a zone, it's it's different, right, So if you're doing
all that running as a receiver, then on the next
series you're gonna come in here and play dB. I
don't know. See here's here's and I understand exactly what
(47:08):
you're saying, and and and I'll even concede a little
bit to it. But what I will say is here's
the problem with it. To me, if he's a receiver, okay,
he's he he's got the ability to catch the ball, run,
all that kind of stuff. When he starts playing dB,
(47:29):
now that the physicality of that side of it is
now on him because you gotta tackle run. You gotta
come in and you gotta tackle running backs, you gotta
tackle some big receivers, you gotta hit a tight end,
you gotta you gotta take on alignment, that kind of
that punk, that type of punishment. So you're saying, like
(47:50):
doing that full time and then Seth will be harder,
to be harder. Okay. So another question, So if you say, okay,
he's gonna come in as a receiver, that's gonna be
the primary position, at what point do you pit him
as a dB and ready to throw the ball. If
he's such a great cover, maybe I put him on
the best the best receiver. I put him on the
(48:13):
slot guy. You know. So you know, so to me,
I see it that way. I see him more in
that situation, you know, because I'm gonna make the case
he's gonna be he's gonna be as talented because when
you play Dome, which is four D four corners. He's
(48:33):
gonna be as good as one of the He's gonna
be one of those fours. I'll give you that, Okay,
So when you play Nickel, you got three, he's probably
gonna he very well could be in those three. So now,
but he might be one of your top receivers. M
I mean, he definitely probably gonna be in the top
five because received receivers. You're gonna play five or six
(48:55):
receivers game, yes, and.
Speaker 5 (48:57):
It's gonna be a real challenge whatever franchise picks him up.
I mean, you think about it. I mean, he's gonna
go in the first round, and he's gonna go for
a significant amount of money. So whatever team picks him up,
they're gonna have to find a way to protect their
assets and protect their player. So you know, you're gonna
you're gonna.
Speaker 2 (49:12):
And they probably got a plan, yes, And I would
think they will be going to Cleveland. So I don't
know if they got to you said that, I don't know.
That's what I don't know. And see and and and
again to that point. This is like the this is
like the number one quarterback going to to the worst team, right,
(49:32):
you know, yeah, and and and now you're putting yourself
in a situation. So now the question goes. I go
back to your answer and say, I don't want to
be a receiver because do you have a quarterback for me?
Let me be a DV. And that's what I guess.
That's my point. Yeah, because you when you look at
usage rate, and the thing is, if you have a
(49:54):
bad offense, then to your point, you're going to be
getting beat up because you got a company receiver, got
to tackle, you got to take on block, you got
to do a lot as a dB. Then I got
to come in there and I'm running empty routes because
maybe I got a bad office line on my quarterbacks
not seeing me, and my usage rate is going to
be high, but maybe my production is not going to
be able to mag depending on where I'm going. So
(50:16):
I think, to me, I would almost circle it back.
You want to do what you do, and I understand that,
but maybe it also depends on where you land at.
Speaker 6 (50:26):
That's a good point.
Speaker 5 (50:28):
Person that are surrounding you, what kind of players, But
I mean, don't you guys agree to that. It's the NFL,
It's not college. Okay, he did phenomenal at Colorado playing
both sides of the ball. But when you get to
that level at the NFL, you've got to kind of
hone in on what your your specific position is and
just focus on that and so you can be the
(50:50):
best player that you can be at that position. I mean,
especially if you want to you know, if you have
Hall of Fame, you know, dreams and aspirations, you got
to be good at one thing and really really be
good at it makes sense.
Speaker 2 (51:04):
Here's a question, is I think maybe Dion might have
played some snap about to go there? Yeah, he might
have played a couple of snaps at receiver, but where
do we know him as we know him as a
DV kick returner. But but I mean, if you get
to your point earlier when you got the deon, because
I don't know if it's a Dion shadow has opposed
(51:24):
as much as is a Dion influence because Dion he
played he played dB, he played receiver, also played baseball.
So I'm thinking in Travis Hunter's mind, he thinking, well, heck,
if Dion played baseball and football, I can at least
play two positions on just playing football, and and so
he might be thinking like that too, and and and
(51:45):
it's justifiable because he's right there. He's right there with him.
But I'm gonna make like I said, man, Jerry Rice,
great receiver, he just played receiver. Yeah, Andre Risen, Andre Reid,
(52:07):
Sterling Sharp, all those dudes. Every good receiver I know
played receiver. And I bet you they played dB at
some point, yeah, but not a.
Speaker 6 (52:20):
Yeah, but not at the NFL level. Right, What I'm just.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
Saying maybe in high school, you know, they played both ways,
but they became one thing. If this is new, this
would be the new. This would be the newest thing
to add to professional football, a two way guy. And
I think Dion would love that to happen. To his book.
(52:46):
I just don't know how you, like I said, I
mean to your point, I mean, even if you look
at modern receivers, you look at the Randy Moss and
Calvin Johnson's and different things of that nature, I just
don't know how you play receiver. And like, if you're
like if you're a starting receiver or if you're you're
in the top basically, if you're in the top five,
which basically it means you're a starting receiver pretty much, right,
(53:07):
if you're in the top five rotation, maybe the fifth guy.
That means you can to come in probably almost every
series at some point. I don't know how you do that.
And then you play dB. We've never seen that before.
If he can pull that off, I mean, and then again,
how long can you pull it?
Speaker 6 (53:22):
Because that's another good point to that very point.
Speaker 2 (53:26):
They're gonna test this. Yeah, they're going to Yeah, they're
gonna test this. They're gonna want to see what he
can actually do. If it's I just don't think it's
gonna be sustainable.
Speaker 5 (53:38):
And the cerebral part of it, you know, you're you're
you're learning so many more complex plays and routes that
that you did compared to college. I mean, that's a
lot to have to learn and you know, perform on
the field.
Speaker 6 (53:50):
So that's another part of it.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
Physical and we've seen this before, Like you seen like
the Cordell Steward's right, but he played multiple positions on offense.
I've seen of Dick Verbel, Frank Verbel, he's a coach now,
we've seen him. He was a linebacker and he would
come in on the goal line packages. You see Taysom
Hill in New Orleans. But again, you just the way
(54:14):
he's talking about doing it is unpressed for modern football least.
I'm not mad. I'm not mad if he if he
if he's successful at it, you know, I you know,
I don't want to. I don't want to hate on him.
I would rather but I would rather him because again,
when you start looking at all of the the situations
(54:36):
that come with with football, all the contact that comes
with football. Now it's not as bad as it used
to be, but it's still gonna be out there. But now,
if you're playing on both sides of the ball enough
to where you're getting the ball, you're getting hit, you're
over on the other side tackling getting hit or hitting
somebody that ain't that is not a safety issue, you know.
(55:00):
I mean, now, what you're doing is you're like just
you're just asking for some kind of damage. Yeah, you know,
it's just too many people. Yeah, there's just too many
plays there, you know. And I just don't, you know,
I hope he doesn't. I don't hope he can't. I
(55:20):
hope he just doesn't do it. And I just don't
think there's a reason. There's not a reason to do
it other than just to say you did it or
you were the first to do it and all that,
and the credit falls all over the place. But by
the time he plays six, seven, eight years, then what Yeah,
(55:41):
that's gonna be the question. All right, Well, ladies and gentlemen,
hope you enjoyed the show. We're gonna get out of
here and we'll be back again next week.
Speaker 3 (55:50):
Let's Talk with Carl Lee is probably presented by Attorney
Frank Walker. Visit Frank Walker Law dot com. Share your thoughts,
ask questions, or suggests topics on our face Facebook page.
Just search for Let's Talk with Carl Lee and don't
forget to like the page to join the conversation. Catch
you patched episodes anytime at wchsnetwork dot com, slash Let's
(56:11):
Talk and tune in Thursday nights at seven or Sunday
evenings at eight for Let's Talk with Carl Lee.
Speaker 1 (56:18):
If you fall, doesn't don't for get back up for
your feet anything will be a win, yup, even the
feet that say shit's a bath for you. Wise vinitary
Sweet couldn't play with big kids.
Speaker 2 (56:27):
I had to sit in the street and watch from
a distance. But over time I grew.
Speaker 1 (56:31):
If I put in the work in no time I'm
doing everything that.
Speaker 2 (56:35):
I worked and prayed. I'm okay.
Speaker 1 (56:36):
If you ask me how did I do it, I'm
gonna say.
Speaker 2 (56:39):
You gotta work, cry shine, just mine.
Speaker 1 (56:42):
Gotta show everybody is my time here. You gotta work,
cry shine. Never mind who talk of dime this day line,
don't talk. You gotta work. You gotta work. You gotta work.
You gotta work. You gotta a work, You gotta work.
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