April 10, 2025 • 41 mins
In this episode of Let’s Talk with Carl Lee, Carl, Hollis, and Lisa dive into the newly proposed WVSSAC high school classification changes with special guest Dana Farrell. From enrollment-based divisions to the impact on rivalries, conferences, and fairness across the state, the crew breaks down what’s working—and what’s still broken. They tackle the looming questions around NIL money and its possible trickle-down into West Virginia high school sports, sparking debate on how far is too far when money enters youth athletics. Plus: Should 8th graders be eligible for high school teams? Are full-time athletic directors and paid coaches the answer to leveling the playing field? And what if colleges had to buy out players from smaller programs? This wide-ranging conversation ties policy, practicality, and passion into one of the most forward-thinking episodes yet.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Yeah, you gotta work. You gotta work. Bry Son is mine,
gotta show. Everybody is my son. You gotta work.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Bry Son. Another mile sag of Dog's Day.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Welcome to Let's Talk with Carl Lee. Join Karl alongside
frequent co hosts Lisa Odie and Hollis Lewis as they
explore dynamic conversations with guests from all walks of life.
Let's Talk is proudly brought to you by Attorney Frank Walker.
Real Talk, Real experience, Real results. Visit Frank Walker law
dot com. The conversation starts now. This is Let's Talk.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Hello, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
This is Carl Lee and I have both of my
co hosts in the building today, Lisa Odie and Hollis Lewis.
We have an interesting kind of a show today because
this is one of those kind of shows that I
think a whole lot of people have like a thought
process behind it, like they have a they have a
passionate kind of feel. But the person who I think
(01:11):
knows how things are gonna go, where things are gonna
go is is going to be our guest here today.
Dana Ferrell and Dana are you?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Are you?
Speaker 5 (01:23):
There with us, Buddy, I am here right.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
We're talking about the new classifications that the w v
S S a C just came out with here well
this week, yes, Hollis, do you have do you have
any of that information kind of to kind of read
out just well yeah, well and I'll let Dana just
jump in here, but just briefly, again, they kept the
(01:51):
four classifications and instead of doing that wacky formula that
they did last time, they these are strictly based off
enrollment numbers.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Am I writing that, Delegate Defaril?
Speaker 5 (02:02):
You're correct? They went back, you know, and I think
there was so much kicked back about trying there's no
fair way to do this period that probably the least
arguable would be just straight up enrollment.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Yeah, and it was some And again, could you just
walk us through briefly why they did the formula lash
the way they did it. They based it off not
only enrollment, but they had you know, the size of
your city, your proximity to a city, and mediate income,
and they added a whole bunch of other factors in.
Speaker 5 (02:35):
That's correct, and I think if you go back, the
whole roots of this goes back to especially in backball.
But some of the other sports. With the Catholic schools
dominating in the Class A levels that they were in,
and even to some extent once they moved into Double
A and some they were dominating as we've seen. So
(02:58):
there was always this argument that they needed their own
division Catholic schools like some states have. Uh but I
think certainly the Catholic schools have a pretty powerful lobby
with in and with the other principles, and so that
was not entertained much. But you know, so they came
up with this formula. I think that, uh they and
(03:19):
I think that's where they were looking at your proximity
to uh cities or miss talties. I think it was
ten thousand or more. It was the number, and and
they thought, you know, okay, because those schools then may
have an advantage over there is a more rural area,
and so that would you know, be the way that
(03:39):
they would try to get h some bolots in that.
So they uh, you know, I think the formula again,
that's one of those things we say up there all
the time. Hollis says this, the concept is great. Is
the application about a lot of pieces of the legislation
up there, you know, Yeah, I know the intensions were
(04:01):
that you have applications, and I think that here. I
think their intentions were to try to get the ballots.
But you know when when it started playing out and
I and I could speak for you know, I got
the call immediately after that for my principal of my
school over at Sistamville. And you know that as far
as Paul County goes one smaller schools in the county,
and yet because of their proximity to the Charleston city
(04:23):
of them, it's which extend out Route twenty one for
quite a ways. Uh, it put them within that that
proximity to Charleston, which penalized them and threw them up
into Triple A. And they you know, they've been over
ten in the last two football teams. Yeah, yes, the
last thing they needed.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
So so do you think that with the new formula
and how the classification shook out this time, do you
think they got it right? Well?
Speaker 5 (04:53):
I don't know we could ever say, and I think
every other of this there's never going to get it right,
but I think there's going to be as close to
right if we do this. There's a couple of things
I would love to be able to see. Number one
is they give the break up of the divisions. If
we're going to have four classes, let an outside enterty
(05:14):
out of states do that, so there's complete objectivity on that.
I think the way they do it now is, you know,
obviously there's school master's ak, principals and ads come together
all one hundred and whatever ten of them or so,
and of those, any one of those could submit a proposal,
and those proposals go before the full body. I think
(05:34):
they met up at Stonewall Junction Resort this week and
they'll throw those out there and then they, you know,
we do it down to they have you know, a
top two or three and then they take a vote
on those. But I know that's how they did in
the fall, and they had you know, some different proposals
there and then the principals ultimately vote learned. I think
(05:56):
this is where a lot of people get sidetracked or
get to long impressions. They think that these decisions are
made out of Parkersburg and the directors up there are
the ones making these decisions, and they're not. You know,
the principals, the member schools, the principles come together and
put forth their suggestions for how they want to go,
(06:17):
and then they vote on it and ultimately whatever's decided
to pull and then those directors in Parkersburg are settled
with the responsibility to carry it out.
Speaker 6 (06:26):
So, Dana, I'm sorry, go ahead. Oh I just had
a question really quick. It's Lisa by the way. Hey,
So this is not set in stone though, right, because
we still have a thirty day public comment phase, and
then of course the state Board of Education would also
have to accept it. Right, What would happen if that
did not happen? I mean, what have happened? I mean,
(06:47):
I'm just playing Devil's advocate here, But if there was
an outcry from the public about they didn't really like this,
although I can't imagine not liking it because I think
it's probably the fairest system we've had, and you know
since the last one that if that would be the case,
what would happen then?
Speaker 5 (07:04):
Well, my understanding is that it goes back to the
last formula that we had. It was the one fast
fault that they really liked. But that's weird defaults back
to that until they gate through the cycle again. They
can agree on something. But you're correct, you know, there's
all these comment periods and so forth, and the state
(07:25):
Board has to approve it, and they're only meeting at
certain times. And I think that's why they came together
as they did right now, because the State Board of
Education as soon as this thirty day period is that
meets here to get to April and they'll vote on it.
That they do, then things will fall into place. But
if they go any further than that, you can see why,
(07:47):
you know, summer practices and schedules are being made things
that just gets you know, so they have to stick
with what they have. Yeah, because I'm like you, I
don't see a problem with that board or this because
you remember that there was a proposal they had coming
out of Stonewall in October that I thought, you know,
they thought was pretty good proposal, but the it had
(08:09):
it still had some components of the formula in there,
and the state rejected it because of that's so.
Speaker 6 (08:17):
And they do want to implement it this year, right
the twenty five to twenty sixth season. They want to
implement it immediately.
Speaker 5 (08:22):
Okay, that's correct. I do think the provo, especially on football,
because you have to make this schedule so far out right,
there'll still be some scheduling issues with that. But you know,
for some schools, what.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
Are you hearing about conference possible realignment? Because when you
take some schools like, for example, you take a school
like George Washington, where they're going to be in Quada,
in a school like Capital, they're going to be they're
going to be in Triple A, but historically they've been
in the same conference. So is there going to be
any effort to realign those conferences to make sure the
(08:58):
conferences are indicative of the class and which the schools
are in.
Speaker 5 (09:03):
Well, that's a good question. We've been in I think
we've been in such flux over the last two or
three years with this that there's probably going to be
a wait and see, make sure this is going to
stick thing before you start to conference re alignment. But
I think ultimately once we get seven on something, then
that's going to have to take place, because, uh, your conferences,
you know, require a certain amount of games to be
(09:23):
played and your ratings points, especially at football. Yeah, yeah,
you get you know, so g W even if they
go and went against Capital, you know that that cost
in points playing a triple at school unless and I
think you know, and I suggested this in the past
that because I like to see these rivalries. Uh, whether
(09:46):
it's South Charleston g W g W Campill and those
or Capital South Charleston. Uh, anytime those schools play each other,
you know it's a Riberry situation. I throw out the records,
and so you want them playing each other. And I
think that whether it's Poka Nitro, Ripley Ravens would and
there's kinds of situations whether there are different classes, but
there are natural rivals that there should be. Every school
(10:07):
should have at least two variances when they're scheduled to
where they're not pendle astra playing down a conference or
a class.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
To That's a really good idea. Dan.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
I'm going to go just a little bit off off
this path a little bit and ask the question, is
there can you see at any given time in the future.
I'm going to call it inn I own money falling
into West Virginia, whether it be high school, whether it
be college, and I guess it basically it is in college.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Do we see this happening?
Speaker 4 (10:43):
Is is there an opportunity for this to actually take place?
Speaker 5 (10:49):
Unfortunately? Yeah, what you're saying it is and I know
that this is something we talk with the directors of
the SSAC, and what I've been told there is at
least thirty two states that have some form the n
I L at the high school level currently, So uh,
it's coming in. I always say this about all there
be the transfer portal, uh travel ball bills and now
in LL these are national issues. It isn't to West Virginia. Uh,
(11:15):
we're just caught in the in the middle of it.
Each state's trying to jockey around and figure out how
they're going to handle it. And I think, you know,
these are really tough I think to deal with because
you know, you look at what individually, you know, I
think on any of these issues and the three I
just named, if you look at it individually, you can
make a very good case for it, but when you
(11:36):
put it together collectively, it's it's a nightmare. And I think,
you know, look at look at the college level. I
say this down here. You know, when they were going
running the bill A to the four to basically dismantle
the S S A C and replace it with government
governor issue and the commissionerssion, I said, yeah, it was
(11:56):
just crazy. And I'm thinking, you know, we thought the
n C Double Way was the bad guy and they
didn't get it all right, for sure, But when the
government got involved and started, you know, changing laws, and
with what we have at college sports at this point,
do we really want to do that to the last
bastion of amateur sports we have at the high school's
(12:17):
classic level. I don't think, you know, the woman majority
of people in this state at least you don't want that.
And so that's as they see. If not perfect, any
means there's a lot of things they could do better
us getting classifications correct.
Speaker 6 (12:31):
Well. The good thing is I think they can revisit
it every two years now instead of four. Did they
did they add that into the into the college and.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
I like that at least I've said all all it's
in a perfect world, you would be able to look
at least every two years and look at winning percentages
in the top two winning percentages each school perve sport
would move up the class and the bottom the bottom
two and that would move down a class, and so
(13:01):
you have kind of a you know, so you would
be moving around a little bit too maintain some balance, yes,
you know, and I don't want to sing when the
schools out. But let's say Bridgeport, you know they they
went and away, Yeah, they could dominate football, what have you? Okay,
if they went to the state championship two years in
a row, moving them on up to Quada at least
(13:23):
in that sport, and let's see how we do. But
that would be very hard to manage. Uh And and
I've heard, I don't know the details on it, that
Pennsylvania is using some form of that and they're riddled
with lawsuits over it.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
I don't know if I'm a big fan of that. Well, Dana,
we appreciate the information, and uh we will. I'm sure
we will be back in touch with you again soon.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
Oh we're always great to talk to you.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Guys.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
Missed my old uh set team there were ready, we're waiting.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
I took your place.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
Well, yeah, I know, I can't no match for how
I will take his place on the house for here
in just a minute.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
I think I just got a better see said, well,
we would love to have you on the other side,
but that's a different story.
Speaker 5 (14:19):
Well sometimes I do. I get a cure sometimes to
be on the other side. So yeah, Well, anyway.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Okay, we appreciating.
Speaker 7 (14:28):
We'll talk, so okay, bye bye, all right, so let
me I almost he brought up an interesting point, and
the only thing I don't like about this is that
the classifications are just so unequal, Like if you look
at Quada, it's only twenty teams, and I feel that's
a problem.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
And I feel I still think, like again to his point,
when you have to mix up how they did it
last year and how they're doing it this year, and
you're having conferences where you can have a triple A team,
a quad A team, a single A team, they could
all be in the one to be the same conference,
and you're getting punished and rewarded for even playing winning
(15:10):
and losing. So I think the next iteration of this,
I would really like to see just it equals. So
we got one hundred and fifteen teams, I like to
see about you know, twenty five or thirty in each
class or something like that.
Speaker 6 (15:22):
But you know, the disparity on the numbers. I was
looking at like the cutoffs for each classification, and I
think for QUADA it's one thousand and fifty or above,
and then for Triple A it's six hundred and twenty
five or above.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Correct six hundred and twenty five to one thousand and
forty nine.
Speaker 6 (15:39):
So that's a huge difference if you're one of those
schools that's on the cusp of Triple A at you know,
just barely making it at six twenty five, and then
they're going to be playing a school like Capital who's
like one thousand and forty eight population of at their school.
I mean, that could be a huge difference in the
number of student athletes that you have to choose from
correct and to that fact.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
That's the challenge that I have with you know, Okay,
so the top number and the bottom number.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Top number is always okay, but it's.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
It's it's that lower that lower number that is the problem.
You know that that team that's sitting there with the
lowest number, that number is.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
So far from the top number.
Speaker 6 (16:21):
But you have to have those numbers. So it's just
how you fix it.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I get it.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
But but if I'm that low team, I'm a I'm
automatically thinking to myself, I need to be down on
the next level.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
I mean, if you look at quaud A like you
look at.
Speaker 6 (16:38):
Preston A, Capital Fields about going from quad to.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
Triple A last year were okay, well, I think if
you look at they were originally quad.
Speaker 6 (16:49):
Oh okay, okay, that's what I was.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
So, Like, if you look at Preston County, they got
eleven hundred kids in the top school in the state.
Morgantown they got about seventeen hundred kids. You're talking about
a six hundred kid different friends. I mean, it's it's significant,
but I don't know if it's you know, Okay, let
me ask this question and and this is this is
just this is is a simple stupid number question.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Are the numbers? Are the numbers really what we want?
Speaker 4 (17:16):
Like, I mean, does the numbers necessarily dictate how good
of a football team I'm going to have?
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Not at all.
Speaker 6 (17:21):
I mean I think Bridget can hang with any team.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
I'm not sure that what we're what we're, what we're
going after to rank them or to place them is
not really.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
The what else?
Speaker 6 (17:37):
What other options do we have? I can't go back
to the other system. I mean, I thought that system
was terrible.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
Terrible, well, and I'm not opposed to that. There was
some conversation about you know, where you in in the season,
Let's say, like you.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
How you rank.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
Let's just say, okay, so we start wherever we however,
we get started, right.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
So so Capital's there, South Charleston is there.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
Okay, South Charleston ends up being the top team in
that conference. Charleston ends up being the bottom team in
that conference in their conference. So it's Charleston, this Charleston
belong somewhere else again, you know. And and it's comment
after that, Pennsylvania is flittered with lawsuits. You have to
(18:25):
have an objective metric. It can't be this and that
and that and this, because everybody's going to have some
sort of complaint. So enrollment numbers is the only way.
It's the only objective way to measure.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Yeah, there's no way to do it.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
So I look at that and and I hear you,
and all I think about is like, okay, so I'm
looking at this, this big, huge community that has a
ton of kids, and then I'm on the and then
your community is on the bottom of that far size.
As far as size goes, you ain't got You have
(19:03):
no chance ever to compete.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
I wouldn't say that, well, let me.
Speaker 6 (19:10):
Ask you you guys this because I'm not sure. And
I wish I would have asked day him when we
had them on the line, but there was a clause
or what I've read on social social social media that
private schools will have the option to play up a class.
I don't know if that's true or not. But if
it is true, why why would that be an option
for a private school? You think maybe maybe we could
(19:35):
find out.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
I'm not sure if that's true, but what I would
guess is that because their funding is a little different,
and they have the ability to get kids who may
be at a higher socioeconomic level. So again, and they're
not bound necessarily by the rules of public schools.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Yeah, so I guess that.
Speaker 6 (19:56):
I just didn't understand. Yeah, okay, but does that makes sense?
Doesn't seem fair, but it makes sense.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
But I would say this, I would say as far
as like whether you're looking at the numbers or not,
whether it kind of stuck on that or not. I
think the more pergnanent issue is that we have to
evolve as a state, and we need to get at
the very least, at the very least, we need full
time athletic directors because if you are at a smaller school,
(20:23):
you at a smaller community. If you had a full
time athletic director who's sole purpose is to improve the
athletic programs and activities at that school. Who who has
who can raise money and who can you know, go
to the trainers and help the coaches at that community.
I think that's where you sort of equal the playing field, right,
because if you have a stud athletic director, who who
(20:46):
is you know, all in you have like Innate Burton
Burton who was at Westernia State now is that firm
and at a smaller community, that person could be charged
with trying to elevate the program.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
So I think we have to And again even.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
To that point, we got to talk about full time
coaches like other states, you know, other states coaches at
highswood level making one hundred thousand dollars. See that to me,
I'm thinking it would be it would be worth somebody's
time to be a full time coach at the high
school level and that be his or her job solely
(21:24):
and you get paid whatever that whatever those numbers are.
But I know, I know, I know, four thousand dollars
is not enough.
Speaker 6 (21:36):
It's just not enough for a And then you would
have the issue of where's the funding coming from. We're
already that's right.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
I mean, I.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
Don't know who you have to really love football, you
have to really love the school that you're at, you
have to really love the kids that you're coaching to
take that small amount, and you're basically working year round,
and that's where and that's from the outside end. And
I think that was sort of the conventional wisdom of
having teachers do that, because that four thousand with actors
(22:07):
a supplement too, said, right, salary, But when you're talking
about having a person from the outside coming in who's
not a teacher, who you have to during the season,
you're spending fifty hours plus a week, you know, training
and preparing to different things like that, and probably off
season twenty to thirty hours if you're really putting in
the work. So it's not feasible for a lot of people.
(22:30):
So I think we have to get to somewhere where
we can actually, you know, like I said, pay coaches,
pay athletic directors, and I think that could help level
the playing field and to the to the athletic director
part of it, you know. And I've been you know,
fortunately out at South Charleston, and I can make the
case you know that you know, you have Bryce Castuff
(22:51):
someone like that that's that's there who is adamant about
wanting to all the programs to to be successful. That's
a difficult that's a difficult task. But I think in
most cases, people want football, they want basketball, you know,
(23:13):
as those are somewhat the lead sports. Now I'll give
you that. Now soccer is coming, you know, baseball and
baseball as well. So now when you start talking about winning,
is there is it possible at the high school level
to be dominant in all of those particular sports one
(23:34):
school be dominant in all of those particular sports.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
I don't think that that's really possible, And the reason.
Speaker 6 (23:41):
Why depends on the I mean especially, I think there's
a big correlation between football and basketball because a lot
of the athletes that the kids that play football will
go into the play basketball.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Here's why I ask that question.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
Here's why I'm asking that question because what I know
is a lot of times that kid that can play
football but plays basketball, he's playing basketball. He's focusing on basketball.
He's not gonna do he's not gonna do the dual sports.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Are we wrong for.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Holding these kids away from playing dual sports? Should we
be motivating them to play football and basketball?
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Or should we is it fair.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
To say, nah, I don't just pass up pass up football,
you know, just focus on your focus on your basketball.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I know two players.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
I know two players in my era who a coach
told them not to play football. Well, I think that
sentiment's changing because I think what kids are seeing now
is that you have to be an athlete no matter what.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Right see. I think you're playing.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
But I think to the point is like, if you're
at a bigger school, So if you're at a Morgantown
where you have almost eighteen hundred kids, then I think
because you have more to choose from, then you don't
necessarily maybe that kid doesn't who plays football, maybe don't
necessarily need him on the basketball team to be successful.
So but when you're at a smaller school, you need
(25:05):
the kid to play basketball, football, baseball, You need them,
You need to play everything to be good. So I
think that's the I think when you talk about dominance,
that's where the advantage of the bigger schools coming to play.
Because a school like Spring Mill, Martinsburg, Morgantown, we see
that they're good in football, women's basketball, men's basketball, track, baseball,
(25:27):
they're kind of they're they're they're at the top at
all those sports because they just have a bigger pool,
right right. But I would say this, I do think
that parents should be thinking about having their kids like
in multiple sports just for the just for the sake
of their being Like, what are you doing in the
(25:49):
off season of football?
Speaker 2 (25:51):
What are you doing? If you're not playing another sport?
What are you doing?
Speaker 6 (25:54):
I think track is a good option.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
Absolutely, And track is dying on the high school level.
It's dying. And it's it's yeah here, it's dying, you know,
and and and and and we're and we're to your point, Holliss,
we're overlooking track. And it's important that the importance of it, Like,
come on, when you when you start talking about trying
(26:19):
to get through the combine, you start talking about trying
to get to.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
To a D one school, what are they gonna do.
They're gonna, they gonna they're gonna put you on the clock.
Speaker 4 (26:27):
But I think I think what happened though around here
and again I think the sentiment is changing. Uh what
happened around here is like again, you know, you have
those football and basketball players. Instead of playing those auxiliary sports,
those other sports, they filled it with travel sports. So
you know, in the off season and basketball playing AU
and with the younger kids in off season of football,
some of them aren't running track and playing baseball. They're
(26:48):
playing travel football. So they're playing like that. That's there.
They they are involved in a sport. They are doing something.
They're just playing that similar sport all year around. Where now,
I think, what's happening, Because again, if you're ranking yourself nationally,
which a lot of people are doing, which Dana Ferrol
Delicate Farrel kind of mentioned that, they're starting to look
nationally outside of the States. So a lot of kids
(27:11):
are looking at night like, dang, this is the number
one recruit and he plays football, basketball, and he runs
track and he swims in the summer. So they're starting
to see that. So I think kids are now starting
to say, hey, I'm gonna be as athletic as possible.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
You look at like guys like zaj Jackins.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
And Collins from Huntington respectfully and Princeton who went to WVU.
Those are track guys. They ran track, they played basketball,
they did a variety of sports. So I think the
sentiment is slowly starting to change back. I just think
I just think if you're listening to this, and you're
a parent and you have a child that's at at
a younger age that has an opportunity to do multiple
(27:46):
sports and encourage him or her simply because it is
the best way. Well, let me throw this idea, y'all,
and I'll start with relisha. What do you think about like,
for example, when we talked going back to the numbers,
and we didn't give out the full numbers as far
as like quada is one thousand and fifty or more,
(28:11):
Triple A is six hundred and fifty to one thy
forty nine, Double A is three hundred and fifty one
to six twenty four far as enrollment numbers, and single
A is three fifty or less. Right, So when you
do have like smaller schools, Now, again this is nineteenth
eleventh twelfth grade, what about the possibility of eighth graders
(28:33):
being allowed to play high school football or high school sports?
Like when UK cause, like, for example, you got like
these community schools where it's like K through twelve.
Speaker 6 (28:45):
You know, maybe physically they there may be an athlete
here here or there that physically would be able to
hang with some of these high school you know, athletes,
But I think eighth grade, even if they're physically able,
I don't think mentally they're ready to be a part
of that whole scenario. There's a huge difference between an
eighth grader and a senior.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
Well, I'm saying, I'm saying like, like eighth graders and
ninth graders will be like relegated to like the JV
team unless you got the stud ninth grade right, But
I'm saying like those eight graders will be like you're
playing JV to What I'm saying is like you get
him in the program.
Speaker 6 (29:17):
Then what happens to the middle school programs six and seventh?
Speaker 4 (29:20):
I mean, you still got a middle school program in
just two years. I mean what you think?
Speaker 6 (29:25):
I mean, I think it's a novel idea. I'm just
I don't know if I'd be a fan of it.
That's a lot to ask of an eighth grade.
Speaker 4 (29:33):
What what what I'm what I hear not saying what
you mean. But I'm saying what I hear though, is
again we're cherry picking the talented player to do something.
We're allowing him or her to do something for the
(29:53):
betterment of them and or the betterment of the other program.
I mean cherry picking were saying, eighth grade you could play.
Eighth grade, you can play in high school, you played.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
But you played.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
But the only the only really ones is that really
are good? Like why am I gonna play JV when
I can play varsity at the at the level that
I'm at.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Because we're going we're getting you in the program earlier.
I don't need to be in a programmer.
Speaker 6 (30:20):
Is this something Hollis they're doing you've heard of nationwide?
Speaker 5 (30:23):
Is it?
Speaker 4 (30:23):
Is it?
Speaker 6 (30:23):
Is it something that's a trend or just an idea?
Speaker 4 (30:27):
It's an idea, but I've heard it in a couple
of different places, like for example, like in Kentucky, like
those middle schoolers and this is mostly basketball middle school.
Like oj Mail for example, he's seventh grade. He played
on the varsity high school team. You know what I'm saying,
and get us basketball. It's different scenario. But what I'm
saying is like, if you are at one of these
(30:47):
little community schools where like, for example, you got like
Pickens Elementary High School, it's got I ain't gonna use
that one. But you got like Harmon Elementary High School,
it's got thirty one people in it. You know, what
I'm saying, if they had a sports team, why wouldn't
that Why couldn't that eighth grader just play well?
Speaker 6 (31:05):
I mean that would be beneficial for the smaller schools,
but I could see a scenario in the larger schools
where they would they would, like you said, they would
hand pick those eighth graders that they see potential, and
they'd enter the transfer portal to come to their school
as an eighth grader and become a part of the
JV team to groom them.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
You're losing community, Yeah, you're losing Communit know that.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
I'm saying, like Horseman, thone excuse Westside kids, don't you
just go to Capitol like you and go anyway?
Speaker 2 (31:36):
You just play it.
Speaker 6 (31:36):
If they're really really good, then Martinsburg or somebody else
is going to swoop in and get those players that
are capable.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Possibly, Lady, I don't. I don't think.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
I don't think that there's there's there's any.
Speaker 5 (31:50):
Need for.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
Quote young talent, young talented, let's say middle school kids
to be in a rush to get to high school.
I don't think that just because I'm really good in
middle school doesn't I ain't saying we know you keep saying,
I ain't saying good, I'm saying eighth grader, eighth grader.
I'm saying, we ain't talking about We ain't Cherry Pikett
(32:15):
saying the eighth grader you're gonna play basketball.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Football, or whatever the hell you're saying.
Speaker 4 (32:18):
So you're not saying that automatic it would get They.
Speaker 6 (32:21):
Can go right, no matter what, we can go. So
what what how do you think the high schools would
feel about that? So when they have to take all
the eighth graders that are that want to come play.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
First, If I'm a high school coach and that's what
I'm doing, if I can get that kid into my
program earlier, let's go. And the thing is, you're going
to be competing against other eighth and ninth graders and
I can filled out a whole JV schedule, So now
I can really get a JV schedule. I got numbers,
and let's go, like, let's go play now, so I
can see. I got to extra you to develop you.
(32:50):
If I'm a if i'm a if I'm a JV
player and i'm i'm I'm a ninth grader and i'm
a i'm a I'm a starter on the JV. Okay,
and so are starting five are all ninth graders, right, Okay?
All of a sudden, now you want to bring you
(33:10):
want to bring some eighth graders to cut into, to
cut into to us, and to me, I'm like, no,
it's about competition. I mean, come on, but what about
the you know me, you know, you know, I'm all
about the competition, But you got to you got to
come through.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
You got to come through the system.
Speaker 6 (33:31):
I was just going to say the logistics of it,
because not all your middle schools are absolutely next door
to the high school. So you know, if they've got
to after school practice, somebody's got to find a way
to get the player there to the high school. And
and like I said, they're not always close.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
That's fair.
Speaker 4 (33:45):
I can't argue that that's it's always It's good with you.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
He refuses to go with me on anything.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
But I'm saying, when we say competition, you can't come on, bro,
you can't say that it's competition all the way around this.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
I just don't. I don't think that.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
I don't think that there's a I don't think that
there's a Again, I'll take the good I'll take the
great player. That's the eighth grader. Okay, that's the that's the.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Exception to the rule.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
Like he's he's gonna be better than some of the
tenth graders and could maybe even go after.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
A twelfth grader. Okay, I can see.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
There being some value of him or her playing up.
I can see some value. What I don't what I
what I don't What I don't think is gonna be good?
Is I think there's gonna be too many people who's
gonna want to do that, who aren't good enough. Parents
(34:45):
want him to go, Coaches think that they should go.
I think so, I think.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
I think.
Speaker 4 (34:49):
I think that you're creating a window of opportunity that
folks are gonna want to take because they think that
their kids that and he and he or she may
not really we have to be that because I mean,
you got kids, and that I mean parents holding their
kids back. Now what I'm saying, and maybe maybe just
to clarified and we'll jump to something else. But like
(35:10):
if you have a school like Charleston Catholic where everybody
is going to the same school, so k or whatever,
maybe sixth grade through high school, right and they're all
in the same school to your point. So this would
cut so so this would cut the logistical argument down.
So if you had a school, like a community school
is what they call, and you have an outstanding eighth
(35:30):
grader who's already in the school with who's already going
to school with high schoolers, why why shouldn't him or
her be allowed to play at the high school level
if you're ready to go, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 6 (35:41):
And that kind of goes back to the private school
situation because they're unique and and and like you said,
they have that that on campus presences are there in
the same community school.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
It's some public.
Speaker 6 (35:54):
School to some, but not all schools are close. You're right,
so that that would be the problem with that, I
think part of it anyway. I mean, I think it's
a good concept, but I think there's a lot of
wrinkles you would have to iron out for that time.
Speaker 4 (36:08):
And fortunately for me, like or unfortunately for me, my
first thought goes to football, and my first thought is size, strength, speed,
all of those kinds of things. Maybe that can work
in basketball, maybe that can work in track, Maybe they're
going to work, you know, in other sports. Football man,
I just think that it's a it's a it's just
a different it's just a different kind of an animal.
(36:31):
And the and the issue with safety is critical there.
And I don't think that I just don't think that
you know that that's something that should be that should happen.
So let me ask you just to switch it up
real quick. We there was a comment made by the
grammar I think it's the basketball or football coach, and
basically what he said, in regards to transfer and different
(36:53):
things of that nature, he said, if because we've seen
like with the NCAA Championships, it wasn't really great because
you didn't have any cinderellas, there's really not much to
chew on there, right, So basically what he said, what
he alluded to is that if a kid from a
smaller school at the collegiate level transfers to a bigger school,
then that bigger school should have to pay a buy
(37:15):
out to the smaller school. What do you what do
your thoughts on it? I like it, I mean I
kind of Again, I don't like the whole money deal
part of it anyway, But in this situation, if I'm
at I'm at State, and I'm and somebody wants to
take me at a larger level, they're going to have
(37:35):
to pay state to let me, like out of your contract,
out of my contract to go I would be okay
with I think I could see myself being okay with that.
Speaker 6 (37:46):
I'm totally for it. I mean, I really feel like,
you know, this is a contract. You've entered a legal
contract with a school, and you know, whenever you decide
to move on to green or pasture. I mean, we've
had the wild wild West of transfer Port long enough.
We need to set down a little bit. And you know,
these contracts, you know, they should include provisions so that
if you decide to go somewhere else, you have to
(38:07):
you know, you have to pay up like any other
other contract.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
And I think it's perganent because it's like I said,
looking at the NC Double Championships, particularly on the men's side,
the final four was.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
All number one, right, that never really happened.
Speaker 4 (38:21):
I don't think it was an upset the whole tournament now,
I mean traditionally the women's just like one two one two,
which again, even if you look at that game, it
was a blowout. It was not a good game right now,
and it's just like this this has just been the
most almost lame duck, you know, march madness that I've
seen in years.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
It was just not exciting at all. I think that
you have to and we've got to get out of here.
Speaker 4 (38:42):
But I think that one of the things that you
have to do, if money's involved, it has to be
contract like you have to be contracted according to that.
I mean, that's how it is in professional sports, because
you're not amateur sports.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
If you're paying, so you know the school's paying exact exactly.
Speaker 4 (39:00):
So to me, there has to be some form of
a contract of how much you make, when you can
lose it, how you can lose it, if you can
lose it, whatever, those all those things should be in there.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
You sign that you got to you're accountable.
Speaker 6 (39:14):
These small schools need a way to recoup their investments
for sure. For sure, you know they've spent time, they've
spent you know, not only the monetary part of it,
but just the time developing these players. They do all
the work and then the biggers come in and take them.
So yeah, they need a way to control it.
Speaker 4 (39:30):
And it's almost like a former revenue Shane, which I
like I said, I'm totally agreement because watching the NCAA tournament,
particularly on.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
The men's side. You've seen all the players.
Speaker 4 (39:38):
Oh, he's from this small school, he's from that small school,
and now they're going to contribute to the bigger schools
and the small There's no gun Zaga, there's no VS News.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
It was literally the Loyotas of the world. It was
just nothing this year.
Speaker 4 (39:52):
Well, ladies and gentlemen, we hope you enjoyed the show
and we will be back again next week.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
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(40:19):
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Speaker 1 (40:24):
If you fall, doesn't do for get back up for
your feet. Anything will be a win, yup, even the feet.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
They say. Sugar band for you wise Vintary Sweet couldn't
play with big kids. I had to sit in.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
The street and watch from a distance.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
But over time I grew.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
If I put in the work, in no time, I'm
doing everything that I worked and prayed on Moka. If
you ask me how did I do it, I'm gonna say.
You gotta work, ry Shine, just mine, gotta show. Everybody
is my time.
Speaker 6 (40:50):
He ain't here.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
You gotta work, cry shan love A mind who TALKA
died this day line, don't talk.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
You gotta work. You gotta work. You gotta work. You
gotta work. You gotta work, You gotta work.
Yeah, you gotta work. You gotta work. Bry Son is mine,
gotta show. Everybody is my son. You gotta work.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Bry Son. Another mile sag of Dog's Day.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Welcome to Let's Talk with Carl Lee. Join Karl alongside
frequent co hosts Lisa Odie and Hollis Lewis as they
explore dynamic conversations with guests from all walks of life.
Let's Talk is proudly brought to you by Attorney Frank Walker.
Real Talk, Real experience, Real results. Visit Frank Walker law
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Speaker 2 (00:46):
Hello, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
This is Carl Lee and I have both of my
co hosts in the building today, Lisa Odie and Hollis Lewis.
We have an interesting kind of a show today because
this is one of those kind of shows that I
think a whole lot of people have like a thought
process behind it, like they have a they have a
passionate kind of feel. But the person who I think
(01:11):
knows how things are gonna go, where things are gonna
go is is going to be our guest here today.
Dana Ferrell and Dana are you?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Are you?
Speaker 5 (01:23):
There with us, Buddy, I am here right.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
We're talking about the new classifications that the w v
S S a C just came out with here well
this week, yes, Hollis, do you have do you have
any of that information kind of to kind of read
out just well yeah, well and I'll let Dana just
jump in here, but just briefly, again, they kept the
(01:51):
four classifications and instead of doing that wacky formula that
they did last time, they these are strictly based off
enrollment numbers.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Am I writing that, Delegate Defaril?
Speaker 5 (02:02):
You're correct? They went back, you know, and I think
there was so much kicked back about trying there's no
fair way to do this period that probably the least
arguable would be just straight up enrollment.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Yeah, and it was some And again, could you just
walk us through briefly why they did the formula lash
the way they did it. They based it off not
only enrollment, but they had you know, the size of
your city, your proximity to a city, and mediate income,
and they added a whole bunch of other factors in.
Speaker 5 (02:35):
That's correct, and I think if you go back, the
whole roots of this goes back to especially in backball.
But some of the other sports. With the Catholic schools
dominating in the Class A levels that they were in,
and even to some extent once they moved into Double
A and some they were dominating as we've seen. So
(02:58):
there was always this argument that they needed their own
division Catholic schools like some states have. Uh but I
think certainly the Catholic schools have a pretty powerful lobby
with in and with the other principles, and so that
was not entertained much. But you know, so they came
up with this formula. I think that, uh they and
(03:19):
I think that's where they were looking at your proximity
to uh cities or miss talties. I think it was
ten thousand or more. It was the number, and and
they thought, you know, okay, because those schools then may
have an advantage over there is a more rural area,
and so that would you know, be the way that
(03:39):
they would try to get h some bolots in that.
So they uh, you know, I think the formula again,
that's one of those things we say up there all
the time. Hollis says this, the concept is great. Is
the application about a lot of pieces of the legislation
up there, you know, Yeah, I know the intensions were
(04:01):
that you have applications, and I think that here. I
think their intentions were to try to get the ballots.
But you know when when it started playing out and
I and I could speak for you know, I got
the call immediately after that for my principal of my
school over at Sistamville. And you know that as far
as Paul County goes one smaller schools in the county,
and yet because of their proximity to the Charleston city
(04:23):
of them, it's which extend out Route twenty one for
quite a ways. Uh, it put them within that that
proximity to Charleston, which penalized them and threw them up
into Triple A. And they you know, they've been over
ten in the last two football teams. Yeah, yes, the
last thing they needed.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
So so do you think that with the new formula
and how the classification shook out this time, do you
think they got it right? Well?
Speaker 5 (04:53):
I don't know we could ever say, and I think
every other of this there's never going to get it right,
but I think there's going to be as close to
right if we do this. There's a couple of things
I would love to be able to see. Number one
is they give the break up of the divisions. If
we're going to have four classes, let an outside enterty
(05:14):
out of states do that, so there's complete objectivity on that.
I think the way they do it now is, you know,
obviously there's school master's ak, principals and ads come together
all one hundred and whatever ten of them or so,
and of those, any one of those could submit a proposal,
and those proposals go before the full body. I think
(05:34):
they met up at Stonewall Junction Resort this week and
they'll throw those out there and then they, you know,
we do it down to they have you know, a
top two or three and then they take a vote
on those. But I know that's how they did in
the fall, and they had you know, some different proposals
there and then the principals ultimately vote learned. I think
(05:56):
this is where a lot of people get sidetracked or
get to long impressions. They think that these decisions are
made out of Parkersburg and the directors up there are
the ones making these decisions, and they're not. You know,
the principals, the member schools, the principles come together and
put forth their suggestions for how they want to go,
(06:17):
and then they vote on it and ultimately whatever's decided
to pull and then those directors in Parkersburg are settled
with the responsibility to carry it out.
Speaker 6 (06:26):
So, Dana, I'm sorry, go ahead. Oh I just had
a question really quick. It's Lisa by the way. Hey,
So this is not set in stone though, right, because
we still have a thirty day public comment phase, and
then of course the state Board of Education would also
have to accept it. Right, What would happen if that
did not happen? I mean, what have happened? I mean,
(06:47):
I'm just playing Devil's advocate here, But if there was
an outcry from the public about they didn't really like this,
although I can't imagine not liking it because I think
it's probably the fairest system we've had, and you know
since the last one that if that would be the case,
what would happen then?
Speaker 5 (07:04):
Well, my understanding is that it goes back to the
last formula that we had. It was the one fast
fault that they really liked. But that's weird defaults back
to that until they gate through the cycle again. They
can agree on something. But you're correct, you know, there's
all these comment periods and so forth, and the state
(07:25):
Board has to approve it, and they're only meeting at
certain times. And I think that's why they came together
as they did right now, because the State Board of
Education as soon as this thirty day period is that
meets here to get to April and they'll vote on it.
That they do, then things will fall into place. But
if they go any further than that, you can see why,
(07:47):
you know, summer practices and schedules are being made things
that just gets you know, so they have to stick
with what they have. Yeah, because I'm like you, I
don't see a problem with that board or this because
you remember that there was a proposal they had coming
out of Stonewall in October that I thought, you know,
they thought was pretty good proposal, but the it had
(08:09):
it still had some components of the formula in there,
and the state rejected it because of that's so.
Speaker 6 (08:17):
And they do want to implement it this year, right
the twenty five to twenty sixth season. They want to
implement it immediately.
Speaker 5 (08:22):
Okay, that's correct. I do think the provo, especially on football,
because you have to make this schedule so far out right,
there'll still be some scheduling issues with that. But you know,
for some schools, what.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
Are you hearing about conference possible realignment? Because when you
take some schools like, for example, you take a school
like George Washington, where they're going to be in Quada,
in a school like Capital, they're going to be they're
going to be in Triple A, but historically they've been
in the same conference. So is there going to be
any effort to realign those conferences to make sure the
(08:58):
conferences are indicative of the class and which the schools
are in.
Speaker 5 (09:03):
Well, that's a good question. We've been in I think
we've been in such flux over the last two or
three years with this that there's probably going to be
a wait and see, make sure this is going to
stick thing before you start to conference re alignment. But
I think ultimately once we get seven on something, then
that's going to have to take place, because, uh, your conferences,
you know, require a certain amount of games to be
(09:23):
played and your ratings points, especially at football. Yeah, yeah,
you get you know, so g W even if they
go and went against Capital, you know that that cost
in points playing a triple at school unless and I
think you know, and I suggested this in the past
that because I like to see these rivalries. Uh, whether
(09:46):
it's South Charleston g W g W Campill and those
or Capital South Charleston. Uh, anytime those schools play each other,
you know it's a Riberry situation. I throw out the records,
and so you want them playing each other. And I
think that whether it's Poka Nitro, Ripley Ravens would and
there's kinds of situations whether there are different classes, but
there are natural rivals that there should be. Every school
(10:07):
should have at least two variances when they're scheduled to
where they're not pendle astra playing down a conference or
a class.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
To That's a really good idea. Dan.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
I'm going to go just a little bit off off
this path a little bit and ask the question, is
there can you see at any given time in the future.
I'm going to call it inn I own money falling
into West Virginia, whether it be high school, whether it
be college, and I guess it basically it is in college.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Do we see this happening?
Speaker 4 (10:43):
Is is there an opportunity for this to actually take place?
Speaker 5 (10:49):
Unfortunately? Yeah, what you're saying it is and I know
that this is something we talk with the directors of
the SSAC, and what I've been told there is at
least thirty two states that have some form the n
I L at the high school level currently, So uh,
it's coming in. I always say this about all there
be the transfer portal, uh travel ball bills and now
in LL these are national issues. It isn't to West Virginia. Uh,
(11:15):
we're just caught in the in the middle of it.
Each state's trying to jockey around and figure out how
they're going to handle it. And I think, you know,
these are really tough I think to deal with because
you know, you look at what individually, you know, I
think on any of these issues and the three I
just named, if you look at it individually, you can
make a very good case for it, but when you
(11:36):
put it together collectively, it's it's a nightmare. And I think,
you know, look at look at the college level. I
say this down here. You know, when they were going
running the bill A to the four to basically dismantle
the S S A C and replace it with government
governor issue and the commissionerssion, I said, yeah, it was
(11:56):
just crazy. And I'm thinking, you know, we thought the
n C Double Way was the bad guy and they
didn't get it all right, for sure, But when the
government got involved and started, you know, changing laws, and
with what we have at college sports at this point,
do we really want to do that to the last
bastion of amateur sports we have at the high school's
(12:17):
classic level. I don't think, you know, the woman majority
of people in this state at least you don't want that.
And so that's as they see. If not perfect, any
means there's a lot of things they could do better
us getting classifications correct.
Speaker 6 (12:31):
Well. The good thing is I think they can revisit
it every two years now instead of four. Did they
did they add that into the into the college and.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
I like that at least I've said all all it's
in a perfect world, you would be able to look
at least every two years and look at winning percentages
in the top two winning percentages each school perve sport
would move up the class and the bottom the bottom
two and that would move down a class, and so
(13:01):
you have kind of a you know, so you would
be moving around a little bit too maintain some balance, yes,
you know, and I don't want to sing when the
schools out. But let's say Bridgeport, you know they they
went and away, Yeah, they could dominate football, what have you? Okay,
if they went to the state championship two years in
a row, moving them on up to Quada at least
(13:23):
in that sport, and let's see how we do. But
that would be very hard to manage. Uh And and
I've heard, I don't know the details on it, that
Pennsylvania is using some form of that and they're riddled
with lawsuits over it.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
I don't know if I'm a big fan of that. Well, Dana,
we appreciate the information, and uh we will. I'm sure
we will be back in touch with you again soon.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
Oh we're always great to talk to you.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Guys.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
Missed my old uh set team there were ready, we're waiting.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
I took your place.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
Well, yeah, I know, I can't no match for how
I will take his place on the house for here
in just a minute.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
I think I just got a better see said, well,
we would love to have you on the other side,
but that's a different story.
Speaker 5 (14:19):
Well sometimes I do. I get a cure sometimes to
be on the other side. So yeah, Well, anyway.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Okay, we appreciating.
Speaker 7 (14:28):
We'll talk, so okay, bye bye, all right, so let
me I almost he brought up an interesting point, and
the only thing I don't like about this is that
the classifications are just so unequal, Like if you look
at Quada, it's only twenty teams, and I feel that's
a problem.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
And I feel I still think, like again to his point,
when you have to mix up how they did it
last year and how they're doing it this year, and
you're having conferences where you can have a triple A team,
a quad A team, a single A team, they could
all be in the one to be the same conference,
and you're getting punished and rewarded for even playing winning
(15:10):
and losing. So I think the next iteration of this,
I would really like to see just it equals. So
we got one hundred and fifteen teams, I like to
see about you know, twenty five or thirty in each
class or something like that.
Speaker 6 (15:22):
But you know, the disparity on the numbers. I was
looking at like the cutoffs for each classification, and I
think for QUADA it's one thousand and fifty or above,
and then for Triple A it's six hundred and twenty
five or above.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Correct six hundred and twenty five to one thousand and
forty nine.
Speaker 6 (15:39):
So that's a huge difference if you're one of those
schools that's on the cusp of Triple A at you know,
just barely making it at six twenty five, and then
they're going to be playing a school like Capital who's
like one thousand and forty eight population of at their school.
I mean, that could be a huge difference in the
number of student athletes that you have to choose from
correct and to that fact.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
That's the challenge that I have with you know, Okay,
so the top number and the bottom number.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Top number is always okay, but it's.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
It's it's that lower that lower number that is the problem.
You know that that team that's sitting there with the
lowest number, that number is.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
So far from the top number.
Speaker 6 (16:21):
But you have to have those numbers. So it's just
how you fix it.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I get it.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
But but if I'm that low team, I'm a I'm
automatically thinking to myself, I need to be down on
the next level.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
I mean, if you look at quaud A like you
look at.
Speaker 6 (16:38):
Preston A, Capital Fields about going from quad to.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
Triple A last year were okay, well, I think if
you look at they were originally quad.
Speaker 6 (16:49):
Oh okay, okay, that's what I was.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
So, Like, if you look at Preston County, they got
eleven hundred kids in the top school in the state.
Morgantown they got about seventeen hundred kids. You're talking about
a six hundred kid different friends. I mean, it's it's significant,
but I don't know if it's you know, Okay, let
me ask this question and and this is this is
just this is is a simple stupid number question.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Are the numbers? Are the numbers really what we want?
Speaker 4 (17:16):
Like, I mean, does the numbers necessarily dictate how good
of a football team I'm going to have?
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Not at all.
Speaker 6 (17:21):
I mean I think Bridget can hang with any team.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
I'm not sure that what we're what we're, what we're
going after to rank them or to place them is
not really.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
The what else?
Speaker 6 (17:37):
What other options do we have? I can't go back
to the other system. I mean, I thought that system
was terrible.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
Terrible, well, and I'm not opposed to that. There was
some conversation about you know, where you in in the season,
Let's say, like you.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
How you rank.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
Let's just say, okay, so we start wherever we however,
we get started, right.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
So so Capital's there, South Charleston is there.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
Okay, South Charleston ends up being the top team in
that conference. Charleston ends up being the bottom team in
that conference in their conference. So it's Charleston, this Charleston
belong somewhere else again, you know. And and it's comment
after that, Pennsylvania is flittered with lawsuits. You have to
(18:25):
have an objective metric. It can't be this and that
and that and this, because everybody's going to have some
sort of complaint. So enrollment numbers is the only way.
It's the only objective way to measure.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Yeah, there's no way to do it.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
So I look at that and and I hear you,
and all I think about is like, okay, so I'm
looking at this, this big, huge community that has a
ton of kids, and then I'm on the and then
your community is on the bottom of that far size.
As far as size goes, you ain't got You have
(19:03):
no chance ever to compete.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
I wouldn't say that, well, let me.
Speaker 6 (19:10):
Ask you you guys this because I'm not sure. And
I wish I would have asked day him when we
had them on the line, but there was a clause
or what I've read on social social social media that
private schools will have the option to play up a class.
I don't know if that's true or not. But if
it is true, why why would that be an option
for a private school? You think maybe maybe we could
(19:35):
find out.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
I'm not sure if that's true, but what I would
guess is that because their funding is a little different,
and they have the ability to get kids who may
be at a higher socioeconomic level. So again, and they're
not bound necessarily by the rules of public schools.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Yeah, so I guess that.
Speaker 6 (19:56):
I just didn't understand. Yeah, okay, but does that makes sense?
Doesn't seem fair, but it makes sense.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
But I would say this, I would say as far
as like whether you're looking at the numbers or not,
whether it kind of stuck on that or not. I
think the more pergnanent issue is that we have to
evolve as a state, and we need to get at
the very least, at the very least, we need full
time athletic directors because if you are at a smaller school,
(20:23):
you at a smaller community. If you had a full
time athletic director who's sole purpose is to improve the
athletic programs and activities at that school. Who who has
who can raise money and who can you know, go
to the trainers and help the coaches at that community.
I think that's where you sort of equal the playing field, right,
because if you have a stud athletic director, who who
(20:46):
is you know, all in you have like Innate Burton
Burton who was at Westernia State now is that firm
and at a smaller community, that person could be charged
with trying to elevate the program.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
So I think we have to And again even.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
To that point, we got to talk about full time
coaches like other states, you know, other states coaches at
highswood level making one hundred thousand dollars. See that to me,
I'm thinking it would be it would be worth somebody's
time to be a full time coach at the high
school level and that be his or her job solely
(21:24):
and you get paid whatever that whatever those numbers are.
But I know, I know, I know, four thousand dollars
is not enough.
Speaker 6 (21:36):
It's just not enough for a And then you would
have the issue of where's the funding coming from. We're
already that's right.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
I mean, I.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
Don't know who you have to really love football, you
have to really love the school that you're at, you
have to really love the kids that you're coaching to
take that small amount, and you're basically working year round,
and that's where and that's from the outside end. And
I think that was sort of the conventional wisdom of
having teachers do that, because that four thousand with actors
(22:07):
a supplement too, said, right, salary, But when you're talking
about having a person from the outside coming in who's
not a teacher, who you have to during the season,
you're spending fifty hours plus a week, you know, training
and preparing to different things like that, and probably off
season twenty to thirty hours if you're really putting in
the work. So it's not feasible for a lot of people.
(22:30):
So I think we have to get to somewhere where
we can actually, you know, like I said, pay coaches,
pay athletic directors, and I think that could help level
the playing field and to the to the athletic director
part of it, you know. And I've been you know,
fortunately out at South Charleston, and I can make the
case you know that you know, you have Bryce Castuff
(22:51):
someone like that that's that's there who is adamant about
wanting to all the programs to to be successful. That's
a difficult that's a difficult task. But I think in
most cases, people want football, they want basketball, you know,
(23:13):
as those are somewhat the lead sports. Now I'll give
you that. Now soccer is coming, you know, baseball and
baseball as well. So now when you start talking about winning,
is there is it possible at the high school level
to be dominant in all of those particular sports one
(23:34):
school be dominant in all of those particular sports.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
I don't think that that's really possible, And the reason.
Speaker 6 (23:41):
Why depends on the I mean especially, I think there's
a big correlation between football and basketball because a lot
of the athletes that the kids that play football will
go into the play basketball.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Here's why I ask that question.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
Here's why I'm asking that question because what I know
is a lot of times that kid that can play
football but plays basketball, he's playing basketball. He's focusing on basketball.
He's not gonna do he's not gonna do the dual sports.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Are we wrong for.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Holding these kids away from playing dual sports? Should we
be motivating them to play football and basketball?
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Or should we is it fair.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
To say, nah, I don't just pass up pass up football,
you know, just focus on your focus on your basketball.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I know two players.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
I know two players in my era who a coach
told them not to play football. Well, I think that
sentiment's changing because I think what kids are seeing now
is that you have to be an athlete no matter what.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Right see. I think you're playing.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
But I think to the point is like, if you're
at a bigger school, So if you're at a Morgantown
where you have almost eighteen hundred kids, then I think
because you have more to choose from, then you don't
necessarily maybe that kid doesn't who plays football, maybe don't
necessarily need him on the basketball team to be successful.
So but when you're at a smaller school, you need
(25:05):
the kid to play basketball, football, baseball, You need them,
You need to play everything to be good. So I
think that's the I think when you talk about dominance,
that's where the advantage of the bigger schools coming to play.
Because a school like Spring Mill, Martinsburg, Morgantown, we see
that they're good in football, women's basketball, men's basketball, track, baseball,
(25:27):
they're kind of they're they're they're at the top at
all those sports because they just have a bigger pool,
right right. But I would say this, I do think
that parents should be thinking about having their kids like
in multiple sports just for the just for the sake
of their being Like, what are you doing in the
(25:49):
off season of football?
Speaker 2 (25:51):
What are you doing? If you're not playing another sport?
What are you doing?
Speaker 6 (25:54):
I think track is a good option.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
Absolutely, And track is dying on the high school level.
It's dying. And it's it's yeah here, it's dying, you know,
and and and and and we're and we're to your point, Holliss,
we're overlooking track. And it's important that the importance of it, Like,
come on, when you when you start talking about trying
(26:19):
to get through the combine, you start talking about trying
to get to.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
To a D one school, what are they gonna do.
They're gonna, they gonna they're gonna put you on the clock.
Speaker 4 (26:27):
But I think I think what happened though around here
and again I think the sentiment is changing. Uh what
happened around here is like again, you know, you have
those football and basketball players. Instead of playing those auxiliary sports,
those other sports, they filled it with travel sports. So
you know, in the off season and basketball playing AU
and with the younger kids in off season of football,
some of them aren't running track and playing baseball. They're
(26:48):
playing travel football. So they're playing like that. That's there.
They they are involved in a sport. They are doing something.
They're just playing that similar sport all year around. Where now,
I think, what's happening, Because again, if you're ranking yourself nationally,
which a lot of people are doing, which Dana Ferrol
Delicate Farrel kind of mentioned that, they're starting to look
nationally outside of the States. So a lot of kids
(27:11):
are looking at night like, dang, this is the number
one recruit and he plays football, basketball, and he runs
track and he swims in the summer. So they're starting
to see that. So I think kids are now starting
to say, hey, I'm gonna be as athletic as possible.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
You look at like guys like zaj Jackins.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
And Collins from Huntington respectfully and Princeton who went to WVU.
Those are track guys. They ran track, they played basketball,
they did a variety of sports. So I think the
sentiment is slowly starting to change back. I just think
I just think if you're listening to this, and you're
a parent and you have a child that's at at
a younger age that has an opportunity to do multiple
(27:46):
sports and encourage him or her simply because it is
the best way. Well, let me throw this idea, y'all,
and I'll start with relisha. What do you think about like,
for example, when we talked going back to the numbers,
and we didn't give out the full numbers as far
as like quada is one thousand and fifty or more,
(28:11):
Triple A is six hundred and fifty to one thy
forty nine, Double A is three hundred and fifty one
to six twenty four far as enrollment numbers, and single
A is three fifty or less. Right, So when you
do have like smaller schools, Now, again this is nineteenth
eleventh twelfth grade, what about the possibility of eighth graders
(28:33):
being allowed to play high school football or high school sports?
Like when UK cause, like, for example, you got like
these community schools where it's like K through twelve.
Speaker 6 (28:45):
You know, maybe physically they there may be an athlete
here here or there that physically would be able to
hang with some of these high school you know, athletes,
But I think eighth grade, even if they're physically able,
I don't think mentally they're ready to be a part
of that whole scenario. There's a huge difference between an
eighth grader and a senior.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
Well, I'm saying, I'm saying like, like eighth graders and
ninth graders will be like relegated to like the JV
team unless you got the stud ninth grade right, But
I'm saying like those eight graders will be like you're
playing JV to What I'm saying is like you get
him in the program.
Speaker 6 (29:17):
Then what happens to the middle school programs six and seventh?
Speaker 4 (29:20):
I mean, you still got a middle school program in
just two years. I mean what you think?
Speaker 6 (29:25):
I mean, I think it's a novel idea. I'm just
I don't know if I'd be a fan of it.
That's a lot to ask of an eighth grade.
Speaker 4 (29:33):
What what what I'm what I hear not saying what
you mean. But I'm saying what I hear though, is
again we're cherry picking the talented player to do something.
We're allowing him or her to do something for the
(29:53):
betterment of them and or the betterment of the other program.
I mean cherry picking were saying, eighth grade you could play.
Eighth grade, you can play in high school, you played.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
But you played.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
But the only the only really ones is that really
are good? Like why am I gonna play JV when
I can play varsity at the at the level that
I'm at.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Because we're going we're getting you in the program earlier.
I don't need to be in a programmer.
Speaker 6 (30:20):
Is this something Hollis they're doing you've heard of nationwide?
Speaker 5 (30:23):
Is it?
Speaker 4 (30:23):
Is it?
Speaker 6 (30:23):
Is it something that's a trend or just an idea?
Speaker 4 (30:27):
It's an idea, but I've heard it in a couple
of different places, like for example, like in Kentucky, like
those middle schoolers and this is mostly basketball middle school.
Like oj Mail for example, he's seventh grade. He played
on the varsity high school team. You know what I'm saying,
and get us basketball. It's different scenario. But what I'm
saying is like, if you are at one of these
(30:47):
little community schools where like, for example, you got like
Pickens Elementary High School, it's got I ain't gonna use
that one. But you got like Harmon Elementary High School,
it's got thirty one people in it. You know, what
I'm saying, if they had a sports team, why wouldn't
that Why couldn't that eighth grader just play well?
Speaker 6 (31:05):
I mean that would be beneficial for the smaller schools,
but I could see a scenario in the larger schools
where they would they would, like you said, they would
hand pick those eighth graders that they see potential, and
they'd enter the transfer portal to come to their school
as an eighth grader and become a part of the
JV team to groom them.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
You're losing community, Yeah, you're losing Communit know that.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
I'm saying, like Horseman, thone excuse Westside kids, don't you
just go to Capitol like you and go anyway?
Speaker 2 (31:36):
You just play it.
Speaker 6 (31:36):
If they're really really good, then Martinsburg or somebody else
is going to swoop in and get those players that
are capable.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Possibly, Lady, I don't. I don't think.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
I don't think that there's there's there's any.
Speaker 5 (31:50):
Need for.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
Quote young talent, young talented, let's say middle school kids
to be in a rush to get to high school.
I don't think that just because I'm really good in
middle school doesn't I ain't saying we know you keep saying,
I ain't saying good, I'm saying eighth grader, eighth grader.
I'm saying, we ain't talking about We ain't Cherry Pikett
(32:15):
saying the eighth grader you're gonna play basketball.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Football, or whatever the hell you're saying.
Speaker 4 (32:18):
So you're not saying that automatic it would get They.
Speaker 6 (32:21):
Can go right, no matter what, we can go. So
what what how do you think the high schools would
feel about that? So when they have to take all
the eighth graders that are that want to come play.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
First, If I'm a high school coach and that's what
I'm doing, if I can get that kid into my
program earlier, let's go. And the thing is, you're going
to be competing against other eighth and ninth graders and
I can filled out a whole JV schedule, So now
I can really get a JV schedule. I got numbers,
and let's go, like, let's go play now, so I
can see. I got to extra you to develop you.
(32:50):
If I'm a if i'm a if I'm a JV
player and i'm i'm I'm a ninth grader and i'm
a i'm a I'm a starter on the JV. Okay,
and so are starting five are all ninth graders, right, Okay?
All of a sudden, now you want to bring you
(33:10):
want to bring some eighth graders to cut into, to
cut into to us, and to me, I'm like, no,
it's about competition. I mean, come on, but what about
the you know me, you know, you know, I'm all
about the competition, But you got to you got to
come through.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
You got to come through the system.
Speaker 6 (33:31):
I was just going to say the logistics of it,
because not all your middle schools are absolutely next door
to the high school. So you know, if they've got
to after school practice, somebody's got to find a way
to get the player there to the high school. And
and like I said, they're not always close.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
That's fair.
Speaker 4 (33:45):
I can't argue that that's it's always It's good with you.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
He refuses to go with me on anything.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
But I'm saying, when we say competition, you can't come on, bro,
you can't say that it's competition all the way around this.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
I just don't. I don't think that.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
I don't think that there's a I don't think that
there's a Again, I'll take the good I'll take the
great player. That's the eighth grader. Okay, that's the that's the.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Exception to the rule.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
Like he's he's gonna be better than some of the
tenth graders and could maybe even go after.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
A twelfth grader. Okay, I can see.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
There being some value of him or her playing up.
I can see some value. What I don't what I
what I don't What I don't think is gonna be good?
Is I think there's gonna be too many people who's
gonna want to do that, who aren't good enough. Parents
(34:45):
want him to go, Coaches think that they should go.
I think so, I think.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
I think.
Speaker 4 (34:49):
I think that you're creating a window of opportunity that
folks are gonna want to take because they think that
their kids that and he and he or she may
not really we have to be that because I mean,
you got kids, and that I mean parents holding their
kids back. Now what I'm saying, and maybe maybe just
to clarified and we'll jump to something else. But like
(35:10):
if you have a school like Charleston Catholic where everybody
is going to the same school, so k or whatever,
maybe sixth grade through high school, right and they're all
in the same school to your point. So this would
cut so so this would cut the logistical argument down.
So if you had a school, like a community school
is what they call, and you have an outstanding eighth
(35:30):
grader who's already in the school with who's already going
to school with high schoolers, why why shouldn't him or
her be allowed to play at the high school level
if you're ready to go, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 6 (35:41):
And that kind of goes back to the private school
situation because they're unique and and and like you said,
they have that that on campus presences are there in
the same community school.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
It's some public.
Speaker 6 (35:54):
School to some, but not all schools are close. You're right,
so that that would be the problem with that, I
think part of it anyway. I mean, I think it's
a good concept, but I think there's a lot of
wrinkles you would have to iron out for that time.
Speaker 4 (36:08):
And fortunately for me, like or unfortunately for me, my
first thought goes to football, and my first thought is size, strength, speed,
all of those kinds of things. Maybe that can work
in basketball, maybe that can work in track, Maybe they're
going to work, you know, in other sports. Football man,
I just think that it's a it's a it's just
a different it's just a different kind of an animal.
(36:31):
And the and the issue with safety is critical there.
And I don't think that I just don't think that
you know that that's something that should be that should happen.
So let me ask you just to switch it up
real quick. We there was a comment made by the
grammar I think it's the basketball or football coach, and
basically what he said, in regards to transfer and different
(36:53):
things of that nature, he said, if because we've seen
like with the NCAA Championships, it wasn't really great because
you didn't have any cinderellas, there's really not much to
chew on there, right, So basically what he said, what
he alluded to is that if a kid from a
smaller school at the collegiate level transfers to a bigger school,
then that bigger school should have to pay a buy
(37:15):
out to the smaller school. What do you what do
your thoughts on it? I like it, I mean I
kind of Again, I don't like the whole money deal
part of it anyway, But in this situation, if I'm
at I'm at State, and I'm and somebody wants to
take me at a larger level, they're going to have
(37:35):
to pay state to let me, like out of your contract,
out of my contract to go I would be okay
with I think I could see myself being okay with that.
Speaker 6 (37:46):
I'm totally for it. I mean, I really feel like,
you know, this is a contract. You've entered a legal
contract with a school, and you know, whenever you decide
to move on to green or pasture. I mean, we've
had the wild wild West of transfer Port long enough.
We need to set down a little bit. And you know,
these contracts, you know, they should include provisions so that
if you decide to go somewhere else, you have to
(38:07):
you know, you have to pay up like any other
other contract.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
And I think it's perganent because it's like I said,
looking at the NC Double Championships, particularly on the men's side,
the final four was.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
All number one, right, that never really happened.
Speaker 4 (38:21):
I don't think it was an upset the whole tournament now,
I mean traditionally the women's just like one two one two,
which again, even if you look at that game, it
was a blowout. It was not a good game right now,
and it's just like this this has just been the
most almost lame duck, you know, march madness that I've
seen in years.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
It was just not exciting at all. I think that
you have to and we've got to get out of here.
Speaker 4 (38:42):
But I think that one of the things that you
have to do, if money's involved, it has to be
contract like you have to be contracted according to that.
I mean, that's how it is in professional sports, because
you're not amateur sports.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
If you're paying, so you know the school's paying exact exactly.
Speaker 4 (39:00):
So to me, there has to be some form of
a contract of how much you make, when you can
lose it, how you can lose it, if you can
lose it, whatever, those all those things should be in there.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
You sign that you got to you're accountable.
Speaker 6 (39:14):
These small schools need a way to recoup their investments
for sure. For sure, you know they've spent time, they've
spent you know, not only the monetary part of it,
but just the time developing these players. They do all
the work and then the biggers come in and take them.
So yeah, they need a way to control it.
Speaker 4 (39:30):
And it's almost like a former revenue Shane, which I
like I said, I'm totally agreement because watching the NCAA tournament,
particularly on.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
The men's side. You've seen all the players.
Speaker 4 (39:38):
Oh, he's from this small school, he's from that small school,
and now they're going to contribute to the bigger schools
and the small There's no gun Zaga, there's no VS News.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
It was literally the Loyotas of the world. It was
just nothing this year.
Speaker 4 (39:52):
Well, ladies and gentlemen, we hope you enjoyed the show
and we will be back again next week.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
Let's Talk with Carl Lee is probably presented by attorney
Friend Walker. Visit Frank Walker Law dot com. Share your thoughts,
ask questions, or suggest topics on our Facebook page. Just
search for Let's Talk with Carl Lee and don't forget
to like the page to join the conversation. Catch patched
episodes anytime at wchsnetwork dot com slash Let's Talk and
(40:19):
tune in Thursday nights at seven or Sunday evenings at
eight for Let's Talk with Carl Lee.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
If you fall, doesn't do for get back up for
your feet. Anything will be a win, yup, even the feet.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
They say. Sugar band for you wise Vintary Sweet couldn't
play with big kids. I had to sit in.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
The street and watch from a distance.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
But over time I grew.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
If I put in the work, in no time, I'm
doing everything that I worked and prayed on Moka. If
you ask me how did I do it, I'm gonna say.
You gotta work, ry Shine, just mine, gotta show. Everybody
is my time.
Speaker 6 (40:50):
He ain't here.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
You gotta work, cry shan love A mind who TALKA
died this day line, don't talk.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
You gotta work. You gotta work. You gotta work. You
gotta work. You gotta work, You gotta work.
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