March 6, 2025 • 54 mins
On this episode of Let's Talk with Carl Lee, Carl, Lisa Otey, and Hollis Lewis dive into the rapidly changing landscape of college sports. They tackle the effects of NIL deals and the transfer portal, exploring how money and mobility are reshaping player loyalty, coaching strategies, and recruitment. With college athletes chasing bigger paydays, even powerhouse programs like Miami are struggling to keep their teams intact. The crew also debates whether high school players should rethink their pathways to D1 schools, the impact on JUCO and lower-division programs, and whether the future of college sports is more about business than competition. Is this the new normal, or does the system need an overhaul? Tune in for an in-depth and passionate discussion!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Yeah, you gotta work.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
You gotta work. Bry Son is mine, gotta show. Everybody
is my son, k you gotta work, right Son. Another
mile sag of Dogs Day.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Welcome to Let's Talk with Carl Lee. Join Karl alongside
frequent co hosts Lisa Odie and Hollis Lewis as they
explore dynamic conversations with guests from all walks of life.
Let's Talk is proudly brought to you by Attorney Frank Walker,
Real Talk, Real Experience, Real results. Visit Frank Walker law
dot com. The conversation starts now. This is Let's Talk.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Hello, ladies and gentlemen, This is Carle with Let's Talk.
And I have one of my hosts in the in
the building today.
Speaker 5 (00:53):
So far, I have Lisa Odie.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
The Queen.
Speaker 6 (00:57):
How are you, God, how are you?
Speaker 4 (00:58):
I'm doing fun crazy day. Yes we are day. Yes
we're missing Hollis. We're not sure, you know if he
will come in at some time. But you know, some
people have really important jobs then they have to they
have to make big decisions, so he might be helped
making some decisions.
Speaker 5 (01:18):
Lisa.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
To me, this has kind of been like a crazy
kind of a week in conversation, and I know that
you have done a little bit of a little bit
of research on I guess the whole do we do
we still call this transfer stuff? Is this kind of
like still all in that same vein?
Speaker 6 (01:41):
I mean, I think it's all. Yeah, it's affecting coaches,
coaches different levels of the D one, D two, D three,
is changing the whole landscape of collegiate athletics and the
way that players are brought into this. I should say, all.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
Right, well, let's we're going to have Ryan play a
clip for us to kind of hear what a coach
is talking about and what his thinking is. Okay, and
then we'll we'll kind of come back and try to
see what if there's any common ground that we can
find here. Okay, all right, if we'll get well, we'll
play this clip and we'll be right.
Speaker 7 (02:20):
Back physically, mentally, emotionally. But I'm exhausted. I've tried every
which way to keep this going, and I know I'm
going to be asked a lot of questions, but I
want to answer them before I'm even asked. What shocked
me beyond belief was after we made it to the
(02:43):
final four, just eighteen months ago. The very first time
I met with the players, eight of them decided they
were going to put their name in the portal and leave.
I said, don't you like it yet?
Speaker 8 (02:58):
No?
Speaker 5 (02:58):
I love it.
Speaker 7 (02:58):
I love Miami, It's great.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
But the opportunity.
Speaker 7 (03:04):
To make money someplace else. That created a situation that
you have to begin to ask yourself as a coach,
what is this all about?
Speaker 5 (03:18):
The question what is this all about?
Speaker 6 (03:21):
What is the ye exactly?
Speaker 4 (03:23):
I think that ultimately is the major question, and I
think for parents and for kids who are buying into
this reality, what what is the goal?
Speaker 5 (03:36):
What is the what is the end goal here?
Speaker 6 (03:38):
Well? I think I think he even answered his own.
The answer was in the clip, and the answer is
another four words, the four words that you just questioned,
you know, or actually five? What is this all about?
Four words? Opportunity to make money and more money? I mean.
The problem is there are no regulations with the Nile.
(03:59):
There are now rules with the transfer portal, so to speak.
There are some, but they're very very lenient, very light,
And I feel like we're in an era where players
are their loyalty is not to a team or to
a coach, but to money. And when they see the
(04:20):
opportunity to go somewhere else and thrive even though they
liked Miami. You know, he directly asks those players, you know,
it is it where you are? Do you not like where?
You know Miami? Their answer is, yes, we love it here,
but we have an opportunity to make more money somewhere else.
So that's that's your answer to everything when it comes
(04:43):
to all of these questions, it's about money.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Well, and it's so it's like, Okay, anybody who's working
a job and somebody who who will come to you
and invite you to come and do the exact same
thing there, but they're going to pay you more, exactly,
and so it would be no different, you know, it's
it's it's exactly the same thing. But the problem with
(05:09):
this is what we used to say, it's just sports,
you know, and now it's not just sports.
Speaker 5 (05:16):
Now it is you have officially made it about the money.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
I'm totally into, you know, paying athletes at the collegiate level,
totally into it.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
But the reality of.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Me getting a milk going from five hundred thousand dollars
at the school I'm at and then a million dollars
at a team who will will outbid that team and
give me a million dollars. Where am I going to go?
I'm going to the million dollars. That should not be
That should not be something that's available. Negotiating where to
play in collegiate sports is not something that I think
(05:53):
should happen. You can't even do that in the league.
You've got to play out your contract before you get
had an opportunity to potentially go to another place for
more money.
Speaker 6 (06:04):
And it goes back to what I just said a
minute ago about regulations. They're very light. There aren't any really.
I mean, they're allowed to go whenever they want to
go and wherever they want to go, and they don't
have to fulfill any type of, like you said, a contract.
They go and at at you know, whim. So the
issue for me also, I think it's kind of sad
(06:24):
to hear this coach, the coach of the Miami you know,
Hurricanes and head coach. He's an old school coach. You
can tell that. You can tell he's got a little
gray in his hair, and from the video clip, I
know you guys couldn't see that, but you know he's
a seasoned coach. Let's put it that out there. You
got a season coach and he's successful. I mean he
took these guys, these these kids to the you know,
(06:46):
to the what final four?
Speaker 5 (06:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (06:48):
Eight what? Eighteen months ago? He said, right, yea, And
he's got eighteen players looking him in the eye and
eight of them say sorry, we love you, we love
it here, but we got to go. And that's got
to be heartbreaking for a coach that comes from seasons past,
before the nil, before the transfer portal, when they had
(07:09):
kids that were loyal to their school. And I'm not
throwing it at the kids. I'm not saying that they
don't have loyalty. I'm just saying priorities have changed. The
game has changed, and so for these older old school coaches,
the games leaving them too. And it's just a it's
a progression of what's happening in the collegiate world with
(07:30):
all of these other factors.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
Now, there's such a thing as too much freedom in
sports for the simple.
Speaker 5 (07:40):
Fact that.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Even at the high school level, right, we see coaches
walking away simply because you can't manage the ability to
move from one place to another. Sure, and even if
we took the money out of it, but you have
the opportunity to just in one season you played for
(08:03):
one team, The next season you play for another, The
next season you play for another. You can't.
Speaker 5 (08:10):
Let me rephrase that.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
I wouldn't want to be bothered by that thought process
every season of who's gonna leave, the stress, the stress
of it, because I don't know if I got to
find if I'm playing back, you know, if it's basketball,
do I gotta get a center? Do I got to
get another point guard? Do I got to get a
star point guard? Because my guy was so good, but
(08:34):
he he's going somewhere else.
Speaker 5 (08:38):
You you have.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Ruined You've ruined sports because of money. There could easily
be a system set up to where it's I'm paying
fifty dollars and you're paying fifty dollars.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
So now the question for.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
The athlete is who do you want to give your
fifty dollars? Sure, well, they live in my community, right,
it's easier for them to get back and forth to
practice in the school and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 6 (09:10):
It's the family, yes, all that, so.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
We're likely they're going to stack you know, and even
if like, I don't know what would make me want
to leave? And again being old head. I don't know
what would what would make me think about leaving? And
again I go back to Marshall and again we beat
(09:32):
this subject up so much, but I can't.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
It drives me crazy every time that I see it.
Speaker 6 (09:39):
I think this is a new light on it. Though
our conversation has been about you know, players with ian
Io and with the portal not having regulations and rules.
But now we're seeing it affect successful.
Speaker 5 (09:50):
School, successful schoeaking.
Speaker 6 (09:51):
About those mid coaches that are getting rated. Now we're
seeing these This is University of Miami that made it
to the final four losing eight of their players. I mean,
now it's it's not just affecting your mid tier, smaller schools,
it's affecting your successful successful levels. Yeah, and that's a
new light on it, Like we've not really seen that
happen in the past, and now we're starting to see
(10:13):
a real push for these players. They're leaving schools that
they're it's not about winning at all, no, obviously, Like
I could see you going from a mid tier school
to Ohio State. You know, of course the money is
part of it, but also the winning successful part of it.
You know, being a part of a team that that's
going to probably be in the national championship talk every year.
(10:36):
Now you're looking at those teams having a chance of
losing players that you didn't think about that angle before.
So to me, now it's really going to be pressure
on the coach even more so, not just to win,
but to keep players right And how do you do
that in this in this format?
Speaker 5 (10:58):
But well, let me let me And that's a great point.
And I'm going to add to that.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
If I'm in the administrative piece of the governing body
of whatever level it is, what is it that I'm
not What is it that we're seeing that they're not
seeing right, Like you're under saying, like, how is it
possible that we're looking at it and we can see
(11:25):
that it's wrong?
Speaker 5 (11:27):
And I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
I think that there's a large majority of folks who
are on our side.
Speaker 9 (11:32):
Now.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
I think there are some folks because they've they've done,
they've made that move themselves, they want to okay it.
That's fine, I give you that. But when you look
at the overall structure and how it is collapsing.
Speaker 6 (11:46):
Yes, you can't ignore that, right especially I mean, like
I said, now, you're looking at schools that were winning.
I mean, it's not like you're moving from the school
that there's no chance you're going to get to the
final four in basketball? Are there's no chance you're going
to get to the national championship the football championship. They're
moving from a school that's successful to a different school just.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
Just on money, just based on money, more money.
Speaker 6 (12:10):
And I don't I don't understand why we can't fix
that or at least adjust it in some manner.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Do you think it's worse in basketball versus football?
Speaker 6 (12:26):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (12:27):
Absolutely, I think so too.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
I think because again to your point, of the eight
players you're talking about, I mean, if I'm not mistaken,
five of those guys probably star starters.
Speaker 6 (12:39):
Yeah, so that's your whole team.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Because if you haven't been seen, right, so it may
be your top eight, right, you know, because.
Speaker 6 (12:47):
That's the whole team. You deesimated your whole team.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
Yes, yes, And so now not only do you you
got to find somebody to replace them, but you have
to find legitimate players. Right that you may have to
even pay more than what you were paying the guys
who left for more money.
Speaker 6 (13:08):
Right, it's possible. Well, here's my other question, and this
is is this legal. I don't know. So according to
the video clip that we just heard, these players just
told their coach they were entering the transferred portal. They
didn't say they were going to a specific solid point. Okay,
So is it possible that they already know they've already
had these schools reach out to them and say, hey,
(13:29):
you enter the portal, You're you're welcome here. Is that
a thing that's part of this now? Is that legal?
I mean? Is that?
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Like?
Speaker 6 (13:38):
Is it? I don't know it? That's what I'm asking you.
I mean, there's a lot of things that to me
shouldn't be legal to me. If you're entering the portal,
you need to be transparent about it. Like, if you're
gonna do it, then you need to tell your coach. Hey,
this school reached out and said they're gonna give me
this much money, not just the generic Hey, I'm going
in the portal.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
If I'm saying I'm going into the portal to your
and I think you're I think you're right right. If
I say that I'm going into the portal, Okay, that's fine.
Speaker 5 (14:09):
You're going in blind exactly, and.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
You're hoping that somebody will bid on you. Yes, and
give you more money.
Speaker 6 (14:16):
But do you think that's the case.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
I do not think that's the case, exactly. And so
to the point that you're making legal illegal, you're contacting
my players, right and basically saying, well, you know how
much are you making? I'm making twenty five thousand.
Speaker 6 (14:35):
We'll do fifty yeah, exactly, and so yes.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
And tell you boys or your girls, Hey, we'll double
theirs too, exactly. And now all of a sudden, I
mean eight players from a basketball team, Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 5 (14:51):
There's only five starters.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
So you're taking three guys who were either playing a lot, right,
So you're basically.
Speaker 6 (14:59):
Part of the line up, just not the starter, right.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
You're going after the whole meat of the team.
Speaker 6 (15:05):
And and those guys are not just gonna generically, like
I said, enter the portal without They're not gonna risk
what they have at Miami without knowing they got something
better down the road.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
There's no way if I'm if I'm the sixth seventh,
eighth man. Maybe if I'm not, if I'm that guy,
I'm I'm My fear is if I if I can't
play here, then okay, maybe I want to try to
go play.
Speaker 6 (15:33):
Down legitimate okay, right, because.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
I'm not gonna maybe maybe I can play up, But
if I'm already a starter, why would I The only
reason I'm going to move is.
Speaker 6 (15:48):
Money, exactly, And you can't tell me that they've already
not got something in place waiting for them. All they
have to know.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
I agree, there's no I'm not jump. I'm not telling you.
I may say, Okay, I'm going to get into the portal, right,
and then maybe I can find out what's happening in
the portal.
Speaker 5 (16:08):
Somebody might bid two.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
Dollars, But why would I go without knowing?
Speaker 6 (16:15):
Right, you're not You're not going to risk that, and
I'm already a show. I guess that's okay, that's that
that's my that's my question. And I probably need to
research that and get back. And maybe Hollius, if he
was here, he knew the answer. Bit. I guess that's
a thing. I guess that's that's allowed.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
And I thought there was a recruiting and I think
what you're thinking of is the recruiting right rules that
doesn't allow you. I didn't think that they allowed you
to actually go after a player that's already on, that's
already already at another school. Like I thought that that
and and maybe somebody can tell us different. Maybe you
(16:52):
know you can, you can reach me at let's talk
with Crawley facebook page and give me some information because
I don't know that, but I would at least I
would absolutely think you almost that's no I mean you're
communicating with somebody else's player who's under quote contract exactly
(17:14):
and saying to ask. So I'm going to come in
and ask you. Okay, so Lisa, how much are you making?
I'm making five hundred thousand? All right, I'll tell you
what you come. You come, I'll I'll give you a.
Speaker 6 (17:24):
Million, right right?
Speaker 5 (17:26):
Why wouldn't you come?
Speaker 6 (17:27):
Well, of course you are. I mean that that's a
no brainer. But, like I said, my legitimate concern and
also it's really not fair to the school they're leaving.
I mean, the school has a right to know if
you're going to go from you know, you already know
where you're going to. In my opinion, that coach has
a right to know where you're going, and why not
just the I'm going in the portal.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
A friend of mine said this, and I thought that
I thought it was kind of an interesting piece. All
transfers should have to go through a central location process.
Like so, if you're interested in transferring, okay, you have
to I have to come to your your board and say, okay,
(18:10):
I am transferring. Have you had any conversation with any
team prior to that? And if you say yes, then
now okay, then what was what was that conversation?
Speaker 5 (18:27):
And depending on what you say, that could be denied.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Or proved however that would work depending on the conversation,
because again I don't how do I I thought it
was totally illegal to talk to someone's a player from
another team that's already on scholarship and and you come
(18:52):
in and you recruit them from.
Speaker 5 (18:55):
From me, right, I don't.
Speaker 6 (18:57):
Yeah, it doesn't make sense. Like you said, if we're
going to get into the legality legalities, yeah, you know,
then then you really need to look at it as
contracts and we're breaking contracts and.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
And so so what happens now if we start talking
about high school in IL, like to now, all of
a sudden, do this at the high school level, right,
And I could see parents, I could see players being
super excited about it. I could see coaches like, oh
(19:28):
my gosh, please don't let it happen, right, you know.
And I know that we've talked about this, or West
Virginia has talked about this themselves, right you know.
Speaker 5 (19:39):
And I've had calls.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
I've had calls about in I own money participating, I
won't do it right, you know. I don't even care
if it's down to the to the youth level.
Speaker 6 (19:50):
I can't even imagine the high school world would want
to get into this mess until the collegiate level gets
it right, because it's definitely not right there. It's not fit,
it's it's.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Please say that again, So please say that again, and
for all the listeners, please hear what she's just saying.
Speaker 6 (20:06):
Please until they fix it at the collegiate level, the
high school world does not want to be a part
of this, seriously, and I don't know if they ever
do so many things. We're talking about kids, you know,
at least at the collegiate level, these are adults. I
mean they're eighteen. Yes, they're legally yes, I want to
say not adults, but they're semi adults. But at least
(20:27):
they're legal and they're able to participate in a contract.
Can you imagine the kids that are under eighteen and
the parents having the family would have to be involved
in that totally. Yeah, and it just it would be
a myriad of problems that.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
They the kid was the Only thing the kid would
know is he's getting recruited right from a team who's
willing to pay him, whether the school's paying him where
he's at or paying more than what the school's paying you. Now,
so you're so you're in the hall bragg about that,
you know, to your buddies, and you're thinking that you're leaving.
Speaker 6 (21:05):
And where's the money coming from? I mean, you can
you imagine the disparity at the high school level economic gosh,
you know, I mean these consolidated schools, the money is
available to take these kids from these smaller high schools.
I mean, they wouldn't. I just don't know how could
it could work?
Speaker 4 (21:20):
Yeah, because you because you're going to get every best
player from every small top school high school that may
be winning three and four games a season primarily because
of that kid all of a sudden he leaves. Yeah,
well we're talking South Charleston, right. You know, the kids,
the kids who were interested in leaving, even without money,
(21:44):
they take their skill set. Now you're playing young kids
and now everybody's like, well, the coach or the coach
at only won one game in two games in two seasons.
Speaker 5 (21:55):
With who that's it you He didn't get a chance
to show his coaching ability.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
And let's be honest, coaching ability requires athletic kids, kids
who can play, sure, not young not young kids who
not hadn't played since middle school. Right, So you're in
high school for the first time, and now all of
a sudden you're starting in the game, and Lisa, I
promise you, my fear in that whole system is a
(22:25):
young kid forced to play because kids have left, and
he gets she gets.
Speaker 5 (22:32):
Hurt, right, drastically hurt because.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
They're not strong enough, they haven't had a chance to
really truly work out, they're not physical, they're just not
physically and mentally ready, and they're unaware of what that
kind of contact is going to be when you get there, right,
And that's so unfair to those kids.
Speaker 6 (22:53):
And I know for a fact, I mean Hollis has
even mentioned this in previous shows that they are doing
in IE on some states. Yeah, yes, I would be
curious to know how that works. That's something that we
could explore and maybe talk more about.
Speaker 5 (23:05):
But even what is that limit? What is that limit?
Speaker 6 (23:08):
But they're bigger states too, I mean, you think about
how small our state is. I mean, it would be
detrimental to high school football athletics period, really, And I think.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
I've said this once before, but I'm not I will
not participate. Just in case you're anybody's asking, I'm not
participating in helping pay a high school athlete, right, I'm sorry,
I just not, matter of fact, not even a collegiate one.
(23:37):
I played for free.
Speaker 5 (23:38):
Until I got to the pros.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
And the guys are making more money on nil money
than I was making my.
Speaker 6 (23:46):
First year in guarantee it. I guarantee it.
Speaker 5 (23:49):
So how am I supposed to feel? I can't be
for it.
Speaker 6 (23:53):
Is mind boggling, It truly is. I don't even know
how to wrap my head around half of the things
that are going on in the collegiate world with all
of that, But to think that they would even consider
it in our state is just it would just be
it would be scary.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
Right, all right, ladies and gentlemen, we are going to
take a quick break, and we will and our and
Hollis Lewis will join us, I think by phone, so
we'll be right back.
Speaker 10 (24:19):
All right, Let's face it, bad things happen to good
people seriously injured in a car accident, trucking accident, or
even wrongfully arrested. Life happens, and when it happens to you,
you will need sound legal advice and aggressive representation. That's
when you call Attorney Frank Walker at three zero four
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four four one three zero one seven nine, Lock it
(24:41):
in your phone, text it to a friend three zero
four four one three zero one seven nine, or visit
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Speaker 3 (24:50):
Let's Talk with Carl Lee is probably presented by Attorney
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(25:13):
tune in Thursday nights at seven or Sunday evenings at
eight for Let's Talk with Carl Lee. Now back to
their conversation, Well.
Speaker 11 (25:22):
We're not recruiting any high school basketball players, not this year,
We've already recruited Rubin Lefty. Come on, we're building from that.
This year, we're not even looking at a high school
basketball player because we're losing Davon Gadari and Aaron You
can't replace them with high school kids.
Speaker 8 (25:40):
Let me make this public service announcement to every single
high school recruit.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
The biggest and I.
Speaker 8 (25:50):
Mean the absolute biggest threat to you, guys.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
Has been to transfer portal.
Speaker 8 (26:00):
Like Rick Bertino is a veteran coach, he understands what
comes with an.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
Entitled ass high school recruit.
Speaker 8 (26:08):
He don't want them headaches. His hair is already fill
with just for men hot in that damn gray. We
don't want to have to be able to go into
these homes of players that's not trying to better themselves
in their households.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
Because this is the thing.
Speaker 8 (26:27):
When you're recruiting a person who already knows it's time
to perform, versus a player who's trying to say, what
can y'all give me to perform? Its coaches never really
needed you, and it's all a conditional relationship under the
right conditions is the reason why they're recruiting you like
(26:48):
they're recruiting you. You don't know unconditional love. It's everything
in life has a transaction attached to it.
Speaker 5 (26:57):
Don't let that flower your head.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
And let me just say this as we get started
here and Hollis Lewis is on here now as well.
Speaker 5 (27:13):
Basketball, there has been what is it you got?
Speaker 4 (27:20):
Auburn has one freshman, They've got one freshman. They've recruited one.
Speaker 6 (27:24):
Freshman, one freshman.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
Duke has three, Alabama has one, Texas Tech has one.
Everybody else in the conference has zero freshman. Freshman recruited
freshmen to play?
Speaker 6 (27:44):
Are those freshmen from hostals?
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Those are high schools.
Speaker 6 (27:49):
Because they could be a freshman from another well no,
I guess they couldn't be a freshman from another school.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
You're right, Okay, so there's only ten of the ten teams, Okay,
you have one, two, three, four teams have freshmen.
Speaker 6 (28:02):
Wow.
Speaker 9 (28:03):
No, we're talking about the top top ten teams.
Speaker 5 (28:05):
The top team.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
Yeah, the top ten teams got it. So if if
if Holli's if you think that you're really good and
you think that you can go to the top ten.
Speaker 5 (28:19):
Yeah, because they're not.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
Like they're not taking them. And I think we need to,
we need to really understand what that looks like and
how that's how that's playing out.
Speaker 5 (28:34):
Am I right?
Speaker 9 (28:37):
Yeah? I think the thing is is like I just
think the nature of recruiting and how we're viewing quote
unquote collegiate athletics is just different now. You know, if
you're at a power five, now you're essentially playing professional sports.
(28:57):
So if you're at the Duke's you even used the
Alabama you are a professional athlete now, and you know
there is a pathway to get there, but it may
not be as you just articulated. It may not be direct.
It may not be out of hospital. You may have
to go to JUCO or NAII or Division two and
(29:20):
work your way up, you know, sort of like a
exager bos and he went to the kid out of
South Charles. He went to a non power five Jacksonville State,
did perform very well there and then eventually landa the
w give you a power five. So I think the
pathway to get there is just different now. So now
there's extra steps.
Speaker 6 (29:41):
You know. What this reminds me of Hollis is almost
like a farm system for like professional baseball, because you
have the little leagues and that's where the players have
to start and prove themselves before they're taken up into
the big league. So that's basically what this has turned into.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
You have Auburn has one place. It took one freshman,
yet Duke took the Alabama took one, Texas Tech took one,
Saint John's zero, Iowa State zero, Tennessee zero, Texas A
and M zero, alab and Florida zero.
Speaker 9 (30:12):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
I mean, you're talking some some and this is basketball,
and you're talking some pretty big schools.
Speaker 9 (30:21):
And I think the thing the other part of that,
like sort of the other side of the coinna that
is that as a coach now because again these are
these are big money endeavors, there's a lot of money
on the line. There's always been money on the line
as far as you know TV and you know further
you get conference championship, so there's always been like a
little money on the line. But now when you're talking
(30:41):
happen to spend, you know, particularly hundreds of thousands or
possubly million dollars of filding a team you know far
as nil is concerned. So there's a lot of money
on the line. So you as a coach, you have
to get that right. You can ill afford. You can
ill afford to waste money on the player essentially, so
you have to get it right. So you're not going
(31:03):
to spend that money on an unproven commodity. You at
least got to get some some game, pay some collegiate
games and say, hey, this guy can perform at this level.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
And let me let me get let me give you
this little sidebar here. Okay, you know, because there's this,
you know, there's this rush to aau ball and all
this kind of stuff. Now this is not me saying this,
but I do tend to agree. So it says that
now that you now that you're looking at this, is
(31:33):
there any real reason for kids to.
Speaker 6 (31:36):
Play aa you hmm, that's a good question.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
Does it really matter who who you play au for,
because at the end of the day, they're not taking
high school anyway. So let's just say and and and
I know you're going to go in I think you
will probably be pro that, Hollis. But but my thing
is you're playing aau ball middle school, youth level middle school,
So and that's about as far as you can go
(32:02):
unless you do high school, which I don't think you
can do both there, So okay, So so you're gonna
okay and which I which I totally disagree because one
if the games, if the games come, if they conflict,
especially basketball.
Speaker 5 (32:18):
They're gonna go to the AAU first because they because
they think.
Speaker 9 (32:20):
That's more visible playing. They're not playing a you during
the basketball season, A.
Speaker 5 (32:26):
Well travel travel.
Speaker 9 (32:28):
Yeah, that's after you once you get to high school.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
I don't know that's I'll take your word on it,
but I don't think that that's totally.
Speaker 9 (32:36):
Not You're not there. There is no a basketball right now.
It's high school basketball. Then a you start to be.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
All right, I'm gonna okay, I'll take your word for that.
I just but but here's my thing. If you know this,
and again to the earlier segment about you know at
at that there isn't that high school players are being
look over and you're doing a you at such a
(33:05):
young age, are you really what are we? What are
we getting out of that?
Speaker 6 (33:09):
I mean they're building fundamental skills. I mean I think
the earlier you start that, the better, right, I mean
the better you can only get better at it. The
more you do something, the more you practice and play.
Speaker 5 (33:19):
See.
Speaker 4 (33:19):
I think that I think that's what's your fear do
you think I think that's see, I.
Speaker 5 (33:22):
Think that's training. I don't think that that because when.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
You play, you're not working on your shot. You're going
to shoot your shots. You're playing defense. You're not practicing defense,
you're just playing defense. And I think that I think
that you need more work on those, on those skill
sets than.
Speaker 9 (33:42):
Playing because I think what happens is is that I think,
and I agree with you a lot of times when
people are playing, Hey, you're just putting up shots, You're
just playing games. You're not actually working.
Speaker 6 (33:53):
What's the point. Why would you spend so much money
on that and travel?
Speaker 5 (33:56):
And Tom, I think because they think that.
Speaker 4 (33:59):
I think they think it's going to be more more
basketball games, more football games, the better the kids going
to be.
Speaker 9 (34:04):
Okay, No, but and I also think before now, before
what we're di sperience now, that was exposure. So now
you can go to the previously you can go to
these AU camps and different things in tournaments, and it
would be college coaches there, you know what I'm saying.
So you can figure out a way you can get
exposed and get some exposure, particularly when you're in the
high school level. But that may not be the case now,
(34:26):
so I think probably what's going to end up happening
again for those elite players, they're going to continue to
play against the best in the in the countries, right,
But if you're not at that level, your time spent
probably is going to be better spent working on your
skill set and your athleticism as opposed to just playing games.
Speaker 6 (34:45):
And they don't practice in aau on those things. You
don't feel like they just play.
Speaker 5 (34:51):
Practicing.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
I'll say this for me, Okay, all the work that
I would put in so that when I got to
practice could do all of the things that was required,
I'll oversee you football, and it's hard to actually train
kids to do this. It's even hard to even get
him into three point stance. We're talking football shooting the
(35:15):
right way to shoot because some of them can't get
the ball. They got to shove it up to the
and it can't get to the rim. So there's not
a lot happening at the lower levels. It's just they're
winning or losing and they're playing games. Practice you try
to work on those drills. I see the kids in
the gym dribbling, but again it's hard for them to dribble. Dribble,
(35:38):
it's hard for them to get the ball up. I mean,
so it's just and I even I'll even go to
the extent to say playing a scout wants to see
you play a game because he wants to see who
you are.
Speaker 6 (35:54):
If you're good at the mats. Not now, not at
that level. No, not at that level, not even high
school like you can.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
Yes, just like the conversation we had earlier, right that
they're not even recruiting high school. You know, it's getting
to the point they're not even bringing high school guys
to be part of Do you.
Speaker 6 (36:12):
Think this will hurt the AAU industry? I mean, I mean,
that's that's a lot of money, no people spent.
Speaker 9 (36:17):
I don't think, I think because what happens is now
AU is about I think more than again, I'm not
going to take kids aren't getting looked because there may
still be like lower level collegiate programs at these time.
It's different things in nature, but AU travel sports have
become like you know, tourism has come like they have
(36:38):
built into parents vacation now. So if you if you
got a bunch of kids or they all play sports,
that's part of like sort of the summer vacations we
used to take, like the vacation to the beach or
grandma's house. Now you're going to you know, play some
games somewhere. Okay, So I think it can still it
still has some benefit, but I think that the benefit
that maybe that it had five or ten years go
(37:00):
isn't there. And I would say, and I would advocate
to parents, you know you need like if you have
a kid and that kid wants to, you know, play
Division I sports at a high level, I would say,
you probably are the town's gonna be better spit working
on your athleticism, playing multiple sports, being the best athlete
that you can be, and then finding your pathway to
(37:20):
you know, whatever sport that you can fit into, because
the better athletes you are, the more options going to
have even within that particular sport.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
There's there was a there was a young kid that
was in the U Sports program who I've talked about
him back in the day when he was still with
us and he's gone on to middle school and going.
Speaker 5 (37:40):
On to high school. He had so much talent, you know,
he was he.
Speaker 4 (37:49):
Him, him and his dad would be in the gym,
you know before i'd come into work.
Speaker 5 (37:54):
They're already in the gym, finishing up, working out. Okay.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
Now, the thing that was a gonna be his challenge
was going to be was getting him taller, you know,
And he's still getting a little bit taller.
Speaker 5 (38:08):
But he has all the skill set.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
He's as good or better than all most all kids,
whether it be football or basketball in the city.
Speaker 5 (38:16):
Who's played in our city teams.
Speaker 4 (38:18):
Okay, he's probably the best athlete that we've probably had
come through there, and and and not just athletic, but
sports smart. Right, the challenge he has is can that
skill set and that's smart sports smart? Is that enough
for somebody to overlook maybe height and weight and all
(38:41):
those kinds of things. Possibly, yes. And I only bring
that up is because sometimes you know, it's you have
to accept the reality of where you are. But but
the physically pieced, the physical piece.
Speaker 5 (38:56):
But then you gotta go and put the work in.
Speaker 4 (39:00):
He could outshoot, he could probably outshoot a ton of
high school kids at three.
Speaker 5 (39:05):
He probably from a three point shot.
Speaker 4 (39:08):
He probably can out dribble some of the point guards
that that they that that are starting in high school, right,
you know. Now, again he's gonna have to get some hype.
He's gonna have to get some weight, but hopefully that'll happen.
But that's the kind of kid that when you see
it and you can for me, I can appreciate the
work that he puts in. I just don't see that
(39:31):
with a lot of kids. I don't see parents getting
up early in the morning bringing them to the wreck.
And there's some, but I don't see that. I don't
see kids out on the out on the road, running,
you know, in the morning, in the cold, in the rain.
Speaker 5 (39:46):
I don't see that.
Speaker 4 (39:48):
Maybe I'm overlooking it, maybe it's just not the reality.
But I think all three of us agree that it's
not just skill set. It's not just talent. You've got
to be physically a able to perform, and that requires
being in shape.
Speaker 9 (40:06):
But see, I think it's bigger than that. Man. I
see a lot of kids who are talented. I see
a lot of kids who are you know, putting in
the work in going to trainers, like you said, spending
money on a you doing these things to get better.
I think the problem is is that, like I said,
when you're going through the programs and you're actually a
hostile kid, that's collegiate ready, and you have dreams of
(40:28):
going to Division one, a Division one school, but that
path is not there directly as it once was. So
now you gotta go, you go, you gotta go Division two,
you gotta go small division one and work your way up.
At that point, it's not necessarily all about talent and
work that point, it's about your mindset. And if you
haven't had talent, like I said, if you haven't had
(40:50):
to struggle, if you haven't had to overcome, if you
haven't had to actually get yourself to a point where
you can face that adversity and know how to deal
with it and fight, then it doesn't really matter anything
else that's happened to me.
Speaker 6 (41:04):
Right to your point, Hollis, you're absolutely right about all
of those things. But also these coaches, they're not gone
are the days of going to knock on people's doors
and visiting, you know, the high school kid and the family,
Because now we're in a different world. That family, that
kid who hasn't proven themselves yet, there's still a kid.
There's still probably a lot to learn maturity wise, and
(41:27):
they want to know as far as nil, what what
do you have to offer me? Whereas you know, like
Rick Patino said in the clip, he wants these kids
that have already proven themselves, and they're there because they
want to. They're they're there saying what can I do
for you, coach? So it's a whole different Like you said, mindset,
it's it's part of maturity. And these these coaches that
(41:47):
are at elite programs, they don't want to have to
put in the work of dealing with the freshman and
all the problems that come along with that, especially one
that's unproven.
Speaker 4 (41:56):
And and there, and to that valid point that that
that high school kid that's going into college because he
thought he was good or she was good.
Speaker 5 (42:06):
In high school, they think that they can come in Mom.
Speaker 4 (42:09):
Dad thinks that they can come in and because I
know how good my kid is, so I'm sure they
can come in and and and play for.
Speaker 5 (42:17):
W U right now?
Speaker 4 (42:19):
Really, yeah, no, you you you can't. Yeah, I mean
and and and I and I'll ask you both this question.
Do you think that the reality of parents, Let's say,
I don't care where high school. Do they really understand
the skill set and talents of collegiate athletes. I don't
(42:39):
care if you even go to D three do you
think they understand exactly what's happening out there? Have they
have they looked at or watched and gone to a
game to actually understand like the physicality of it, the
skill set of it if it's basketball, and and say,
I'm not sure my son is quite ready for that
(43:01):
yet or is in that space. Have they done their
research yet?
Speaker 9 (43:08):
I think they have. Man, I don't think there's any
false free conceptions when it comes to collegiate athletics. I
think they have some of those when it comes to
like high school and you know whether your kids are
going to be good from middle school to high school.
I think we see that a lot obviously. But I
think when you're talking about collegiate athletics, I don't think
(43:29):
it's a mystery no more. You know, we see kids
now they're not just taking They're just not just looking
for the Wzu and Marshall offers or the higher states
or what they're taking a lower level Division one office.
They're taking a Division two offers because they realize, hey,
I don't have to be stuck here. If I performed,
then I can move. So I think the reality you're
(43:49):
setting in and it's here because they know that hey, coaches,
the scholarship that we're available for high school recruits have
been cut in half, and that like Hans you just
mentioned previously, at some top programs, they've been cut by
seventy five ninety percent. So they realized that, hey, I'm
going to have to take a different pathway to get
to my desired destination.
Speaker 6 (44:12):
And if you think about it, it's almost a I
don't want to say a smarter way to do it,
because sometimes I don't think those that's smart and I
portoole go in the same same sentence. But in a way,
this is if there's anything positive you can take out
of it. I feel like those kids coming out of
high school going to a smaller school, you know, a
(44:33):
more of a hometown type of feel setting at those
at those lower levels, those those you know, the the
Jucos and all those different types of schools. It gives
them time to mature, time to realize, you know, it's
kind of like a stepping stone, and they can they
can kind of work through those, you know, the freshman
kind of things that kids go through, being away from home,
(44:57):
trying to absorb being on their own independent. Some of
these kids now have had to do that before taking
care of themselves balancing you know, school, in sports and
work or whatnot, so in a way that you know,
instead of being thrown into a duke or in Ohio
State right out of the gates. Sometimes that's kind of
a demise for some kids. Do you guys not agree
that it can be too much?
Speaker 5 (45:17):
Yeah? I could.
Speaker 4 (45:17):
I could see that, And I'll say this, Hollis. I
was on the phone with with with Damon Booker and
a couple of other guys Charles Smith today for for
for just another reason, and one of the reflections that
they all have is the early morning running. You know,
(45:41):
all of those kinds of things that in their mindset
now that that was the that's the fun of it.
They can remember that, you know, all the punishments and
who got in trouble at what and what I what
I would say to them or what I did with them.
Speaker 5 (45:59):
They they remember all of those kinds of things.
Speaker 4 (46:03):
And I told them like when I look back at
Marshall and what I dealt with with Marshall.
Speaker 5 (46:09):
It's the same thing.
Speaker 4 (46:10):
You don't even necessarily remember or even need to talk
about the games or a play you made or anything.
Speaker 5 (46:18):
What you get from sports.
Speaker 4 (46:21):
Is the is the structure of it all discipline, the discipline,
and you get to reflect on, you know, how the
coach yelled at you, how much the coach made you run.
That actually is the ground level of of I think
collegiate sports, high school sports. If you can get that,
(46:43):
if you have that, you've had an experience. To me,
it's not even so much about winning. It's not even
so much about being on the best team or what.
You know, how many people actually get to be on
the best team. Only that team. Most of everybody else
is either second or the bottom, you know, And even
if you had bottom, you still get the experience. You
(47:05):
get to say, we won this particular game, you know,
and I can remember how happy everybody was. And to me,
that's all sports is. That's all it has to be.
All it has to be to me, is just a
happy memory, you know, and reflecting on all of that.
(47:28):
And very few people will make it from middle school
youth football, to middle school, middle school, the high school,
high school.
Speaker 5 (47:38):
The college, college, the pro.
Speaker 4 (47:42):
If you can come out of any one of those
and you can find a moment of happiness, then to
me and pride and pride, did you give your all.
I can remember being cut. I remember getting cut and
in Minnesota's like my third year and I got and
I was like, all right, if I get back in,
(48:05):
if I get another opportunity, I will make sure this
will never happen again. And it wasn't that I wasn't
in shape, It wasn't any of that. It was just
the fact that they thought somebody was better. I get
back and now I get an opportunity to say, this
is never gonna happen again. I'm gonna outwork any and
everybody possible moments, those negative moments, you can benefit from
(48:27):
those things. Sure, And I think I don't know if
we have. And I think and I'm saying that to
say that, I think that some of our kids now
they have to realize when something goes negative, you can
turn that into a positive.
Speaker 5 (48:41):
But if you stay in the negative, you got nothing.
Speaker 4 (48:46):
And and I think I'm one hundred percent right on
that one, Hollis, Can you can you fight me on that?
Speaker 9 (48:53):
No? No, I think you're right. Like I said, I
think that's the issue. Now. It's like, like like I said,
if you you are a you know, a good athlete,
now you have a Division one caliber, you may not
get that look now like you may not. You may
not get that look that you think he deserves coming
(49:14):
out of high school. So the challenge for you now,
and that's like, you know, if you have the prerequisite height,
skills and everything else, then you may have to go
to a different path. You may have to go through that.
You may not have to. You may be somewhere where
it's not as glamorous or you're not getting any And again,
not everybody's getting that nil money. It's not like it's
just like everybody's getting that. Most college athletes are still
(49:36):
you know, living, So you may have to go to
a different path in order to get there. You may
have to show that resiliency. And the thing about it is,
regardless of anything else, can you stay in the rain?
Can you deal with it? Can you overcome fight to
get to where you think you deserve? And I think athletes,
now that's going to be the contest, and unfortunately for
(49:59):
a lot of athletes, they're not going to be they're
not really going to experience that level of adversity until
they get to college because we've made you know, youth
league and middle school and high school programs a lot
more comfortable than they want worse as far as the
amenities and everything else. Right, So that's that's gonna be
the great divide as to whether you can mentally stand
(50:22):
uh to get to the place that you think you
ought to be.
Speaker 6 (50:26):
Yeah, you have to have perseverance for sure. But but
I also stand I'm going to stand by what I said.
You know, like I said, this may be a good thing.
It's it's gonna build better players. I mean to me,
if you have to go from the high school level
and then you have to fight your way to uh,
you know, a D two up to a D one,
and then you know, to more of the elite colleges,
(50:47):
you've got to naturally work harder and be better than
everybody else on the landscape. So to me, it may
it may improve you know, the quality of college basketball
that we see.
Speaker 4 (50:59):
Well, and I I'll close this out on this one,
I think, unless somebody wants to comment back on it.
You know, again, I go back and I look at Marshall,
and I look at the games that we lost, you know,
and how bad we felt about losing them, and you know,
not having you know, a winning record and all of that.
Speaker 5 (51:20):
But to you, all's point it.
Speaker 4 (51:24):
What matters is what you do, how you respond to
those situations. You know, we again, we didn't have the
ability to leave, so you only had one or two options.
You could keep playing take all the losses, or you
could quit and become a student. You know, and I
(51:45):
think you know most of our guys, a lot of
guys stayed. And the bond that we have in that
idea of being quote a foundation of success at Marshall.
Whether you want to call it that or not, we
call it that. I think we're we get to be
(52:08):
proud because we were part of of the rebuild. We
don't get the we don't get the luxury, we don't
get the rings, we don't get all that.
Speaker 5 (52:15):
But but what.
Speaker 4 (52:16):
We know is we know we took the losses, we
kept the program going. You're part of the We're part
of the legacy. And I think you know, and I
and I and I and I feel like that's that's
something that being part of a team, regardless win or lose,
there's opportunity to learn something and be a better person
(52:38):
by it. Because winning and losing at this point to
me in my life, which is which is a horrible
thing for me to even try to be a coach
because all that matters to me is the kids are
working hard. We're doing the best we can do, and
I'm good with it. So, you know, but people, you
know again, people want to win, Halis.
Speaker 6 (52:56):
I want to hear him say that after the Vikings
losing the playoffs next year.
Speaker 4 (52:59):
Too, I'm gonna make the prediction We're going Super Bowl.
Speaker 5 (53:06):
So I'll make that.
Speaker 4 (53:08):
I'll put that out there right now. How had you
got anything else?
Speaker 9 (53:11):
Man? No, that's it.
Speaker 4 (53:14):
All right, ladies and gentlemen. We're gonna get out of here.
We appreciate you being here. We'll get back with you again.
Speaker 3 (53:20):
Let's Talk with Carl Lee is probably presented by Attorney
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(53:42):
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Speaker 4 (53:48):
If you fall, does it dough? For get back up
for your feet.
Speaker 2 (53:51):
Anything will be a win, yup, even the feet that
say shit's a bath for you.
Speaker 4 (53:55):
Wis ververy sweet. Couldn't play with big kids. I had
to sit in the street and watch from a disk.
Just put over time. I grew.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
If I put in the work in no time, I'm doing.
Speaker 4 (54:04):
Everything that I worked in prayer. I'm okay.
Speaker 2 (54:07):
If you ask me how did I do it, I'm
gonna say. You gotta work, crime shine, just mine gotta show.
Everybody is my time hein in. You gotta work, cry shine.
Never mind who talking died this day line, don't talk.
Speaker 1 (54:20):
You gotta work. You gotta work. You gotta work. You
gotta work, You gotta work. You gotta work.
Yeah, you gotta work.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
You gotta work. Bry Son is mine, gotta show. Everybody
is my son, k you gotta work, right Son. Another
mile sag of Dogs Day.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Welcome to Let's Talk with Carl Lee. Join Karl alongside
frequent co hosts Lisa Odie and Hollis Lewis as they
explore dynamic conversations with guests from all walks of life.
Let's Talk is proudly brought to you by Attorney Frank Walker,
Real Talk, Real Experience, Real results. Visit Frank Walker law
dot com. The conversation starts now. This is Let's Talk.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Hello, ladies and gentlemen, This is Carle with Let's Talk.
And I have one of my hosts in the in
the building today.
Speaker 5 (00:53):
So far, I have Lisa Odie.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
The Queen.
Speaker 6 (00:57):
How are you, God, how are you?
Speaker 4 (00:58):
I'm doing fun crazy day. Yes we are day. Yes
we're missing Hollis. We're not sure, you know if he
will come in at some time. But you know, some
people have really important jobs then they have to they
have to make big decisions, so he might be helped
making some decisions.
Speaker 5 (01:18):
Lisa.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
To me, this has kind of been like a crazy
kind of a week in conversation, and I know that
you have done a little bit of a little bit
of research on I guess the whole do we do
we still call this transfer stuff? Is this kind of
like still all in that same vein?
Speaker 6 (01:41):
I mean, I think it's all. Yeah, it's affecting coaches,
coaches different levels of the D one, D two, D three,
is changing the whole landscape of collegiate athletics and the
way that players are brought into this. I should say, all.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
Right, well, let's we're going to have Ryan play a
clip for us to kind of hear what a coach
is talking about and what his thinking is. Okay, and
then we'll we'll kind of come back and try to
see what if there's any common ground that we can
find here. Okay, all right, if we'll get well, we'll
play this clip and we'll be right.
Speaker 7 (02:20):
Back physically, mentally, emotionally. But I'm exhausted. I've tried every
which way to keep this going, and I know I'm
going to be asked a lot of questions, but I
want to answer them before I'm even asked. What shocked
me beyond belief was after we made it to the
(02:43):
final four, just eighteen months ago. The very first time
I met with the players, eight of them decided they
were going to put their name in the portal and leave.
I said, don't you like it yet?
Speaker 8 (02:58):
No?
Speaker 5 (02:58):
I love it.
Speaker 7 (02:58):
I love Miami, It's great.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
But the opportunity.
Speaker 7 (03:04):
To make money someplace else. That created a situation that
you have to begin to ask yourself as a coach,
what is this all about?
Speaker 5 (03:18):
The question what is this all about?
Speaker 6 (03:21):
What is the ye exactly?
Speaker 4 (03:23):
I think that ultimately is the major question, and I
think for parents and for kids who are buying into
this reality, what what is the goal?
Speaker 5 (03:36):
What is the what is the end goal here?
Speaker 6 (03:38):
Well? I think I think he even answered his own.
The answer was in the clip, and the answer is
another four words, the four words that you just questioned,
you know, or actually five? What is this all about?
Four words? Opportunity to make money and more money? I mean.
The problem is there are no regulations with the Nile.
(03:59):
There are now rules with the transfer portal, so to speak.
There are some, but they're very very lenient, very light,
And I feel like we're in an era where players
are their loyalty is not to a team or to
a coach, but to money. And when they see the
(04:20):
opportunity to go somewhere else and thrive even though they
liked Miami. You know, he directly asks those players, you know,
it is it where you are? Do you not like where?
You know Miami? Their answer is, yes, we love it here,
but we have an opportunity to make more money somewhere else.
So that's that's your answer to everything when it comes
(04:43):
to all of these questions, it's about money.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Well, and it's so it's like, Okay, anybody who's working
a job and somebody who who will come to you
and invite you to come and do the exact same
thing there, but they're going to pay you more, exactly,
and so it would be no different, you know, it's
it's it's exactly the same thing. But the problem with
(05:09):
this is what we used to say, it's just sports,
you know, and now it's not just sports.
Speaker 5 (05:16):
Now it is you have officially made it about the money.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
I'm totally into, you know, paying athletes at the collegiate level,
totally into it.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
But the reality of.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Me getting a milk going from five hundred thousand dollars
at the school I'm at and then a million dollars
at a team who will will outbid that team and
give me a million dollars. Where am I going to go?
I'm going to the million dollars. That should not be
That should not be something that's available. Negotiating where to
play in collegiate sports is not something that I think
(05:53):
should happen. You can't even do that in the league.
You've got to play out your contract before you get
had an opportunity to potentially go to another place for
more money.
Speaker 6 (06:04):
And it goes back to what I just said a
minute ago about regulations. They're very light. There aren't any really.
I mean, they're allowed to go whenever they want to
go and wherever they want to go, and they don't
have to fulfill any type of, like you said, a contract.
They go and at at you know, whim. So the
issue for me also, I think it's kind of sad
(06:24):
to hear this coach, the coach of the Miami you know,
Hurricanes and head coach. He's an old school coach. You
can tell that. You can tell he's got a little
gray in his hair, and from the video clip, I
know you guys couldn't see that, but you know he's
a seasoned coach. Let's put it that out there. You
got a season coach and he's successful. I mean he
took these guys, these these kids to the you know,
(06:46):
to the what final four?
Speaker 5 (06:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (06:48):
Eight what? Eighteen months ago? He said, right, yea, And
he's got eighteen players looking him in the eye and
eight of them say sorry, we love you, we love
it here, but we got to go. And that's got
to be heartbreaking for a coach that comes from seasons past,
before the nil, before the transfer portal, when they had
(07:09):
kids that were loyal to their school. And I'm not
throwing it at the kids. I'm not saying that they
don't have loyalty. I'm just saying priorities have changed. The
game has changed, and so for these older old school coaches,
the games leaving them too. And it's just a it's
a progression of what's happening in the collegiate world with
(07:30):
all of these other factors.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
Now, there's such a thing as too much freedom in
sports for the simple.
Speaker 5 (07:40):
Fact that.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Even at the high school level, right, we see coaches
walking away simply because you can't manage the ability to
move from one place to another. Sure, and even if
we took the money out of it, but you have
the opportunity to just in one season you played for
(08:03):
one team, The next season you play for another, The
next season you play for another. You can't.
Speaker 5 (08:10):
Let me rephrase that.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
I wouldn't want to be bothered by that thought process
every season of who's gonna leave, the stress, the stress
of it, because I don't know if I got to
find if I'm playing back, you know, if it's basketball,
do I gotta get a center? Do I got to
get another point guard? Do I got to get a
star point guard? Because my guy was so good, but
(08:34):
he he's going somewhere else.
Speaker 5 (08:38):
You you have.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Ruined You've ruined sports because of money. There could easily
be a system set up to where it's I'm paying
fifty dollars and you're paying fifty dollars.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
So now the question for.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
The athlete is who do you want to give your
fifty dollars? Sure, well, they live in my community, right,
it's easier for them to get back and forth to
practice in the school and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 6 (09:10):
It's the family, yes, all that, so.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
We're likely they're going to stack you know, and even
if like, I don't know what would make me want
to leave? And again being old head. I don't know
what would what would make me think about leaving? And
again I go back to Marshall and again we beat
(09:32):
this subject up so much, but I can't.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
It drives me crazy every time that I see it.
Speaker 6 (09:39):
I think this is a new light on it. Though
our conversation has been about you know, players with ian
Io and with the portal not having regulations and rules.
But now we're seeing it affect successful.
Speaker 5 (09:50):
School, successful schoeaking.
Speaker 6 (09:51):
About those mid coaches that are getting rated. Now we're
seeing these This is University of Miami that made it
to the final four losing eight of their players. I mean,
now it's it's not just affecting your mid tier, smaller schools,
it's affecting your successful successful levels. Yeah, and that's a
new light on it, Like we've not really seen that
happen in the past, and now we're starting to see
(10:13):
a real push for these players. They're leaving schools that
they're it's not about winning at all, no, obviously, Like
I could see you going from a mid tier school
to Ohio State. You know, of course the money is
part of it, but also the winning successful part of it.
You know, being a part of a team that that's
going to probably be in the national championship talk every year.
(10:36):
Now you're looking at those teams having a chance of
losing players that you didn't think about that angle before.
So to me, now it's really going to be pressure
on the coach even more so, not just to win,
but to keep players right And how do you do
that in this in this format?
Speaker 5 (10:58):
But well, let me let me And that's a great point.
And I'm going to add to that.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
If I'm in the administrative piece of the governing body
of whatever level it is, what is it that I'm
not What is it that we're seeing that they're not
seeing right, Like you're under saying, like, how is it
possible that we're looking at it and we can see
(11:25):
that it's wrong?
Speaker 5 (11:27):
And I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
I think that there's a large majority of folks who
are on our side.
Speaker 9 (11:32):
Now.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
I think there are some folks because they've they've done,
they've made that move themselves, they want to okay it.
That's fine, I give you that. But when you look
at the overall structure and how it is collapsing.
Speaker 6 (11:46):
Yes, you can't ignore that, right especially I mean, like
I said, now, you're looking at schools that were winning.
I mean, it's not like you're moving from the school
that there's no chance you're going to get to the
final four in basketball? Are there's no chance you're going
to get to the national championship the football championship. They're
moving from a school that's successful to a different school just.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
Just on money, just based on money, more money.
Speaker 6 (12:10):
And I don't I don't understand why we can't fix
that or at least adjust it in some manner.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Do you think it's worse in basketball versus football?
Speaker 6 (12:26):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (12:27):
Absolutely, I think so too.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
I think because again to your point, of the eight
players you're talking about, I mean, if I'm not mistaken,
five of those guys probably star starters.
Speaker 6 (12:39):
Yeah, so that's your whole team.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Because if you haven't been seen, right, so it may
be your top eight, right, you know, because.
Speaker 6 (12:47):
That's the whole team. You deesimated your whole team.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
Yes, yes, And so now not only do you you
got to find somebody to replace them, but you have
to find legitimate players. Right that you may have to
even pay more than what you were paying the guys
who left for more money.
Speaker 6 (13:08):
Right, it's possible. Well, here's my other question, and this
is is this legal. I don't know. So according to
the video clip that we just heard, these players just
told their coach they were entering the transferred portal. They
didn't say they were going to a specific solid point. Okay,
So is it possible that they already know they've already
had these schools reach out to them and say, hey,
(13:29):
you enter the portal, You're you're welcome here. Is that
a thing that's part of this now? Is that legal?
I mean? Is that?
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Like?
Speaker 6 (13:38):
Is it? I don't know it? That's what I'm asking you.
I mean, there's a lot of things that to me
shouldn't be legal to me. If you're entering the portal,
you need to be transparent about it. Like, if you're
gonna do it, then you need to tell your coach. Hey,
this school reached out and said they're gonna give me
this much money, not just the generic Hey, I'm going
in the portal.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
If I'm saying I'm going into the portal to your
and I think you're I think you're right right. If
I say that I'm going into the portal, Okay, that's fine.
Speaker 5 (14:09):
You're going in blind exactly, and.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
You're hoping that somebody will bid on you. Yes, and
give you more money.
Speaker 6 (14:16):
But do you think that's the case.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
I do not think that's the case, exactly. And so
to the point that you're making legal illegal, you're contacting
my players, right and basically saying, well, you know how
much are you making? I'm making twenty five thousand.
Speaker 6 (14:35):
We'll do fifty yeah, exactly, and so yes.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
And tell you boys or your girls, Hey, we'll double
theirs too, exactly. And now all of a sudden, I
mean eight players from a basketball team, Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 5 (14:51):
There's only five starters.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
So you're taking three guys who were either playing a lot, right,
So you're basically.
Speaker 6 (14:59):
Part of the line up, just not the starter, right.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
You're going after the whole meat of the team.
Speaker 6 (15:05):
And and those guys are not just gonna generically, like
I said, enter the portal without They're not gonna risk
what they have at Miami without knowing they got something
better down the road.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
There's no way if I'm if I'm the sixth seventh,
eighth man. Maybe if I'm not, if I'm that guy,
I'm I'm My fear is if I if I can't
play here, then okay, maybe I want to try to
go play.
Speaker 6 (15:33):
Down legitimate okay, right, because.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
I'm not gonna maybe maybe I can play up, But
if I'm already a starter, why would I The only
reason I'm going to move is.
Speaker 6 (15:48):
Money, exactly, And you can't tell me that they've already
not got something in place waiting for them. All they
have to know.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
I agree, there's no I'm not jump. I'm not telling you.
I may say, Okay, I'm going to get into the portal, right,
and then maybe I can find out what's happening in
the portal.
Speaker 5 (16:08):
Somebody might bid two.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
Dollars, But why would I go without knowing?
Speaker 6 (16:15):
Right, you're not You're not going to risk that, and
I'm already a show. I guess that's okay, that's that
that's my that's my question. And I probably need to
research that and get back. And maybe Hollius, if he
was here, he knew the answer. Bit. I guess that's
a thing. I guess that's that's allowed.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
And I thought there was a recruiting and I think
what you're thinking of is the recruiting right rules that
doesn't allow you. I didn't think that they allowed you
to actually go after a player that's already on, that's
already already at another school. Like I thought that that
and and maybe somebody can tell us different. Maybe you
(16:52):
know you can, you can reach me at let's talk
with Crawley facebook page and give me some information because
I don't know that, but I would at least I
would absolutely think you almost that's no I mean you're
communicating with somebody else's player who's under quote contract exactly
(17:14):
and saying to ask. So I'm going to come in
and ask you. Okay, so Lisa, how much are you making?
I'm making five hundred thousand? All right, I'll tell you
what you come. You come, I'll I'll give you a.
Speaker 6 (17:24):
Million, right right?
Speaker 5 (17:26):
Why wouldn't you come?
Speaker 6 (17:27):
Well, of course you are. I mean that that's a
no brainer. But, like I said, my legitimate concern and
also it's really not fair to the school they're leaving.
I mean, the school has a right to know if
you're going to go from you know, you already know
where you're going to. In my opinion, that coach has
a right to know where you're going, and why not
just the I'm going in the portal.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
A friend of mine said this, and I thought that
I thought it was kind of an interesting piece. All
transfers should have to go through a central location process.
Like so, if you're interested in transferring, okay, you have
to I have to come to your your board and say, okay,
(18:10):
I am transferring. Have you had any conversation with any
team prior to that? And if you say yes, then
now okay, then what was what was that conversation?
Speaker 5 (18:27):
And depending on what you say, that could be denied.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Or proved however that would work depending on the conversation,
because again I don't how do I I thought it
was totally illegal to talk to someone's a player from
another team that's already on scholarship and and you come
(18:52):
in and you recruit them from.
Speaker 5 (18:55):
From me, right, I don't.
Speaker 6 (18:57):
Yeah, it doesn't make sense. Like you said, if we're
going to get into the legality legalities, yeah, you know,
then then you really need to look at it as
contracts and we're breaking contracts and.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
And so so what happens now if we start talking
about high school in IL, like to now, all of
a sudden, do this at the high school level, right,
And I could see parents, I could see players being
super excited about it. I could see coaches like, oh
(19:28):
my gosh, please don't let it happen, right, you know.
And I know that we've talked about this, or West
Virginia has talked about this themselves, right you know.
Speaker 5 (19:39):
And I've had calls.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
I've had calls about in I own money participating, I
won't do it right, you know. I don't even care
if it's down to the to the youth level.
Speaker 6 (19:50):
I can't even imagine the high school world would want
to get into this mess until the collegiate level gets
it right, because it's definitely not right there. It's not fit,
it's it's.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Please say that again, So please say that again, and
for all the listeners, please hear what she's just saying.
Speaker 6 (20:06):
Please until they fix it at the collegiate level, the
high school world does not want to be a part
of this, seriously, and I don't know if they ever
do so many things. We're talking about kids, you know,
at least at the collegiate level, these are adults. I
mean they're eighteen. Yes, they're legally yes, I want to
say not adults, but they're semi adults. But at least
(20:27):
they're legal and they're able to participate in a contract.
Can you imagine the kids that are under eighteen and
the parents having the family would have to be involved
in that totally. Yeah, and it just it would be
a myriad of problems that.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
They the kid was the Only thing the kid would
know is he's getting recruited right from a team who's
willing to pay him, whether the school's paying him where
he's at or paying more than what the school's paying you. Now,
so you're so you're in the hall bragg about that,
you know, to your buddies, and you're thinking that you're leaving.
Speaker 6 (21:05):
And where's the money coming from? I mean, you can
you imagine the disparity at the high school level economic gosh,
you know, I mean these consolidated schools, the money is
available to take these kids from these smaller high schools.
I mean, they wouldn't. I just don't know how could
it could work?
Speaker 4 (21:20):
Yeah, because you because you're going to get every best
player from every small top school high school that may
be winning three and four games a season primarily because
of that kid all of a sudden he leaves. Yeah,
well we're talking South Charleston, right. You know, the kids,
the kids who were interested in leaving, even without money,
(21:44):
they take their skill set. Now you're playing young kids
and now everybody's like, well, the coach or the coach
at only won one game in two games in two seasons.
Speaker 5 (21:55):
With who that's it you He didn't get a chance
to show his coaching ability.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
And let's be honest, coaching ability requires athletic kids, kids
who can play, sure, not young not young kids who
not hadn't played since middle school. Right, So you're in
high school for the first time, and now all of
a sudden you're starting in the game, and Lisa, I
promise you, my fear in that whole system is a
(22:25):
young kid forced to play because kids have left, and
he gets she gets.
Speaker 5 (22:32):
Hurt, right, drastically hurt because.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
They're not strong enough, they haven't had a chance to
really truly work out, they're not physical, they're just not
physically and mentally ready, and they're unaware of what that
kind of contact is going to be when you get there, right,
And that's so unfair to those kids.
Speaker 6 (22:53):
And I know for a fact, I mean Hollis has
even mentioned this in previous shows that they are doing
in IE on some states. Yeah, yes, I would be
curious to know how that works. That's something that we
could explore and maybe talk more about.
Speaker 5 (23:05):
But even what is that limit? What is that limit?
Speaker 6 (23:08):
But they're bigger states too, I mean, you think about
how small our state is. I mean, it would be
detrimental to high school football athletics period, really, And I think.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
I've said this once before, but I'm not I will
not participate. Just in case you're anybody's asking, I'm not
participating in helping pay a high school athlete, right, I'm sorry,
I just not, matter of fact, not even a collegiate one.
(23:37):
I played for free.
Speaker 5 (23:38):
Until I got to the pros.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
And the guys are making more money on nil money
than I was making my.
Speaker 6 (23:46):
First year in guarantee it. I guarantee it.
Speaker 5 (23:49):
So how am I supposed to feel? I can't be
for it.
Speaker 6 (23:53):
Is mind boggling, It truly is. I don't even know
how to wrap my head around half of the things
that are going on in the collegiate world with all
of that, But to think that they would even consider
it in our state is just it would just be
it would be scary.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
Right, all right, ladies and gentlemen, we are going to
take a quick break, and we will and our and
Hollis Lewis will join us, I think by phone, so
we'll be right back.
Speaker 10 (24:19):
All right, Let's face it, bad things happen to good
people seriously injured in a car accident, trucking accident, or
even wrongfully arrested. Life happens, and when it happens to you,
you will need sound legal advice and aggressive representation. That's
when you call Attorney Frank Walker at three zero four
four one three zero one seven nine. That's three zero
four four one three zero one seven nine, Lock it
(24:41):
in your phone, text it to a friend three zero
four four one three zero one seven nine, or visit
online at Attorneyfrankwalker dot com.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Let's Talk with Carl Lee is probably presented by Attorney
Frank Walker. Visit Frank Walker Law dot com. Share your thoughts,
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search for Let's Talk with Carl Lee and don't forget
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(25:13):
tune in Thursday nights at seven or Sunday evenings at
eight for Let's Talk with Carl Lee. Now back to
their conversation, Well.
Speaker 11 (25:22):
We're not recruiting any high school basketball players, not this year,
We've already recruited Rubin Lefty. Come on, we're building from that.
This year, we're not even looking at a high school
basketball player because we're losing Davon Gadari and Aaron You
can't replace them with high school kids.
Speaker 8 (25:40):
Let me make this public service announcement to every single
high school recruit.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
The biggest and I.
Speaker 8 (25:50):
Mean the absolute biggest threat to you, guys.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
Has been to transfer portal.
Speaker 8 (26:00):
Like Rick Bertino is a veteran coach, he understands what
comes with an.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
Entitled ass high school recruit.
Speaker 8 (26:08):
He don't want them headaches. His hair is already fill
with just for men hot in that damn gray. We
don't want to have to be able to go into
these homes of players that's not trying to better themselves
in their households.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
Because this is the thing.
Speaker 8 (26:27):
When you're recruiting a person who already knows it's time
to perform, versus a player who's trying to say, what
can y'all give me to perform? Its coaches never really
needed you, and it's all a conditional relationship under the
right conditions is the reason why they're recruiting you like
(26:48):
they're recruiting you. You don't know unconditional love. It's everything
in life has a transaction attached to it.
Speaker 5 (26:57):
Don't let that flower your head.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
And let me just say this as we get started
here and Hollis Lewis is on here now as well.
Speaker 5 (27:13):
Basketball, there has been what is it you got?
Speaker 4 (27:20):
Auburn has one freshman, They've got one freshman. They've recruited one.
Speaker 6 (27:24):
Freshman, one freshman.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
Duke has three, Alabama has one, Texas Tech has one.
Everybody else in the conference has zero freshman. Freshman recruited
freshmen to play?
Speaker 6 (27:44):
Are those freshmen from hostals?
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Those are high schools.
Speaker 6 (27:49):
Because they could be a freshman from another well no,
I guess they couldn't be a freshman from another school.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
You're right, Okay, so there's only ten of the ten teams, Okay,
you have one, two, three, four teams have freshmen.
Speaker 6 (28:02):
Wow.
Speaker 9 (28:03):
No, we're talking about the top top ten teams.
Speaker 5 (28:05):
The top team.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
Yeah, the top ten teams got it. So if if
if Holli's if you think that you're really good and
you think that you can go to the top ten.
Speaker 5 (28:19):
Yeah, because they're not.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
Like they're not taking them. And I think we need to,
we need to really understand what that looks like and
how that's how that's playing out.
Speaker 5 (28:34):
Am I right?
Speaker 9 (28:37):
Yeah? I think the thing is is like I just
think the nature of recruiting and how we're viewing quote
unquote collegiate athletics is just different now. You know, if
you're at a power five, now you're essentially playing professional sports.
(28:57):
So if you're at the Duke's you even used the
Alabama you are a professional athlete now, and you know
there is a pathway to get there, but it may
not be as you just articulated. It may not be direct.
It may not be out of hospital. You may have
to go to JUCO or NAII or Division two and
(29:20):
work your way up, you know, sort of like a
exager bos and he went to the kid out of
South Charles. He went to a non power five Jacksonville State,
did perform very well there and then eventually landa the
w give you a power five. So I think the
pathway to get there is just different now. So now
there's extra steps.
Speaker 6 (29:41):
You know. What this reminds me of Hollis is almost
like a farm system for like professional baseball, because you
have the little leagues and that's where the players have
to start and prove themselves before they're taken up into
the big league. So that's basically what this has turned into.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
You have Auburn has one place. It took one freshman,
yet Duke took the Alabama took one, Texas Tech took one,
Saint John's zero, Iowa State zero, Tennessee zero, Texas A
and M zero, alab and Florida zero.
Speaker 9 (30:12):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
I mean, you're talking some some and this is basketball,
and you're talking some pretty big schools.
Speaker 9 (30:21):
And I think the thing the other part of that,
like sort of the other side of the coinna that
is that as a coach now because again these are
these are big money endeavors, there's a lot of money
on the line. There's always been money on the line
as far as you know TV and you know further
you get conference championship, so there's always been like a
little money on the line. But now when you're talking
(30:41):
happen to spend, you know, particularly hundreds of thousands or
possubly million dollars of filding a team you know far
as nil is concerned. So there's a lot of money
on the line. So you as a coach, you have
to get that right. You can ill afford. You can
ill afford to waste money on the player essentially, so
you have to get it right. So you're not going
(31:03):
to spend that money on an unproven commodity. You at
least got to get some some game, pay some collegiate
games and say, hey, this guy can perform at this level.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
And let me let me get let me give you
this little sidebar here. Okay, you know, because there's this,
you know, there's this rush to aau ball and all
this kind of stuff. Now this is not me saying this,
but I do tend to agree. So it says that
now that you now that you're looking at this, is
(31:33):
there any real reason for kids to.
Speaker 6 (31:36):
Play aa you hmm, that's a good question.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
Does it really matter who who you play au for,
because at the end of the day, they're not taking
high school anyway. So let's just say and and and
I know you're going to go in I think you
will probably be pro that, Hollis. But but my thing
is you're playing aau ball middle school, youth level middle school,
So and that's about as far as you can go
(32:02):
unless you do high school, which I don't think you
can do both there, So okay, So so you're gonna
okay and which I which I totally disagree because one
if the games, if the games come, if they conflict,
especially basketball.
Speaker 5 (32:18):
They're gonna go to the AAU first because they because
they think.
Speaker 9 (32:20):
That's more visible playing. They're not playing a you during
the basketball season, A.
Speaker 5 (32:26):
Well travel travel.
Speaker 9 (32:28):
Yeah, that's after you once you get to high school.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
I don't know that's I'll take your word on it,
but I don't think that that's totally.
Speaker 9 (32:36):
Not You're not there. There is no a basketball right now.
It's high school basketball. Then a you start to be.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
All right, I'm gonna okay, I'll take your word for that.
I just but but here's my thing. If you know this,
and again to the earlier segment about you know at
at that there isn't that high school players are being
look over and you're doing a you at such a
(33:05):
young age, are you really what are we? What are
we getting out of that?
Speaker 6 (33:09):
I mean they're building fundamental skills. I mean I think
the earlier you start that, the better, right, I mean
the better you can only get better at it. The
more you do something, the more you practice and play.
Speaker 5 (33:19):
See.
Speaker 4 (33:19):
I think that I think that's what's your fear do
you think I think that's see, I.
Speaker 5 (33:22):
Think that's training. I don't think that that because when.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
You play, you're not working on your shot. You're going
to shoot your shots. You're playing defense. You're not practicing defense,
you're just playing defense. And I think that I think
that you need more work on those, on those skill
sets than.
Speaker 9 (33:42):
Playing because I think what happens is is that I think,
and I agree with you a lot of times when
people are playing, Hey, you're just putting up shots, You're
just playing games. You're not actually working.
Speaker 6 (33:53):
What's the point. Why would you spend so much money
on that and travel?
Speaker 5 (33:56):
And Tom, I think because they think that.
Speaker 4 (33:59):
I think they think it's going to be more more
basketball games, more football games, the better the kids going
to be.
Speaker 9 (34:04):
Okay, No, but and I also think before now, before
what we're di sperience now, that was exposure. So now
you can go to the previously you can go to
these AU camps and different things in tournaments, and it
would be college coaches there, you know what I'm saying.
So you can figure out a way you can get
exposed and get some exposure, particularly when you're in the
high school level. But that may not be the case now,
(34:26):
so I think probably what's going to end up happening
again for those elite players, they're going to continue to
play against the best in the in the countries, right,
But if you're not at that level, your time spent
probably is going to be better spent working on your
skill set and your athleticism as opposed to just playing games.
Speaker 6 (34:45):
And they don't practice in aau on those things. You
don't feel like they just play.
Speaker 5 (34:51):
Practicing.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
I'll say this for me, Okay, all the work that
I would put in so that when I got to
practice could do all of the things that was required,
I'll oversee you football, and it's hard to actually train
kids to do this. It's even hard to even get
him into three point stance. We're talking football shooting the
(35:15):
right way to shoot because some of them can't get
the ball. They got to shove it up to the
and it can't get to the rim. So there's not
a lot happening at the lower levels. It's just they're
winning or losing and they're playing games. Practice you try
to work on those drills. I see the kids in
the gym dribbling, but again it's hard for them to dribble. Dribble,
(35:38):
it's hard for them to get the ball up. I mean,
so it's just and I even I'll even go to
the extent to say playing a scout wants to see
you play a game because he wants to see who
you are.
Speaker 6 (35:54):
If you're good at the mats. Not now, not at
that level. No, not at that level, not even high
school like you can.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
Yes, just like the conversation we had earlier, right that
they're not even recruiting high school. You know, it's getting
to the point they're not even bringing high school guys
to be part of Do you.
Speaker 6 (36:12):
Think this will hurt the AAU industry? I mean, I mean,
that's that's a lot of money, no people spent.
Speaker 9 (36:17):
I don't think, I think because what happens is now
AU is about I think more than again, I'm not
going to take kids aren't getting looked because there may
still be like lower level collegiate programs at these time.
It's different things in nature, but AU travel sports have
become like you know, tourism has come like they have
(36:38):
built into parents vacation now. So if you if you
got a bunch of kids or they all play sports,
that's part of like sort of the summer vacations we
used to take, like the vacation to the beach or
grandma's house. Now you're going to you know, play some
games somewhere. Okay, So I think it can still it
still has some benefit, but I think that the benefit
that maybe that it had five or ten years go
(37:00):
isn't there. And I would say, and I would advocate
to parents, you know you need like if you have
a kid and that kid wants to, you know, play
Division I sports at a high level, I would say,
you probably are the town's gonna be better spit working
on your athleticism, playing multiple sports, being the best athlete
that you can be, and then finding your pathway to
(37:20):
you know, whatever sport that you can fit into, because
the better athletes you are, the more options going to
have even within that particular sport.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
There's there was a there was a young kid that
was in the U Sports program who I've talked about
him back in the day when he was still with
us and he's gone on to middle school and going.
Speaker 5 (37:40):
On to high school. He had so much talent, you know,
he was he.
Speaker 4 (37:49):
Him, him and his dad would be in the gym,
you know before i'd come into work.
Speaker 5 (37:54):
They're already in the gym, finishing up, working out. Okay.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
Now, the thing that was a gonna be his challenge
was going to be was getting him taller, you know,
And he's still getting a little bit taller.
Speaker 5 (38:08):
But he has all the skill set.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
He's as good or better than all most all kids,
whether it be football or basketball in the city.
Speaker 5 (38:16):
Who's played in our city teams.
Speaker 4 (38:18):
Okay, he's probably the best athlete that we've probably had
come through there, and and and not just athletic, but
sports smart. Right, the challenge he has is can that
skill set and that's smart sports smart? Is that enough
for somebody to overlook maybe height and weight and all
(38:41):
those kinds of things. Possibly, yes. And I only bring
that up is because sometimes you know, it's you have
to accept the reality of where you are. But but
the physically pieced, the physical piece.
Speaker 5 (38:56):
But then you gotta go and put the work in.
Speaker 4 (39:00):
He could outshoot, he could probably outshoot a ton of
high school kids at three.
Speaker 5 (39:05):
He probably from a three point shot.
Speaker 4 (39:08):
He probably can out dribble some of the point guards
that that they that that are starting in high school, right,
you know. Now, again he's gonna have to get some hype.
He's gonna have to get some weight, but hopefully that'll happen.
But that's the kind of kid that when you see
it and you can for me, I can appreciate the
work that he puts in. I just don't see that
(39:31):
with a lot of kids. I don't see parents getting
up early in the morning bringing them to the wreck.
And there's some, but I don't see that. I don't
see kids out on the out on the road, running,
you know, in the morning, in the cold, in the rain.
Speaker 5 (39:46):
I don't see that.
Speaker 4 (39:48):
Maybe I'm overlooking it, maybe it's just not the reality.
But I think all three of us agree that it's
not just skill set. It's not just talent. You've got
to be physically a able to perform, and that requires
being in shape.
Speaker 9 (40:06):
But see, I think it's bigger than that. Man. I
see a lot of kids who are talented. I see
a lot of kids who are you know, putting in
the work in going to trainers, like you said, spending
money on a you doing these things to get better.
I think the problem is is that, like I said,
when you're going through the programs and you're actually a
hostile kid, that's collegiate ready, and you have dreams of
(40:28):
going to Division one, a Division one school, but that
path is not there directly as it once was. So
now you gotta go, you go, you gotta go Division two,
you gotta go small division one and work your way up.
At that point, it's not necessarily all about talent and
work that point, it's about your mindset. And if you
haven't had talent, like I said, if you haven't had
(40:50):
to struggle, if you haven't had to overcome, if you
haven't had to actually get yourself to a point where
you can face that adversity and know how to deal
with it and fight, then it doesn't really matter anything
else that's happened to me.
Speaker 6 (41:04):
Right to your point, Hollis, you're absolutely right about all
of those things. But also these coaches, they're not gone
are the days of going to knock on people's doors
and visiting, you know, the high school kid and the family,
Because now we're in a different world. That family, that
kid who hasn't proven themselves yet, there's still a kid.
There's still probably a lot to learn maturity wise, and
(41:27):
they want to know as far as nil, what what
do you have to offer me? Whereas you know, like
Rick Patino said in the clip, he wants these kids
that have already proven themselves, and they're there because they
want to. They're they're there saying what can I do
for you, coach? So it's a whole different Like you said, mindset,
it's it's part of maturity. And these these coaches that
(41:47):
are at elite programs, they don't want to have to
put in the work of dealing with the freshman and
all the problems that come along with that, especially one
that's unproven.
Speaker 4 (41:56):
And and there, and to that valid point that that
that high school kid that's going into college because he
thought he was good or she was good.
Speaker 5 (42:06):
In high school, they think that they can come in Mom.
Speaker 4 (42:09):
Dad thinks that they can come in and because I
know how good my kid is, so I'm sure they
can come in and and and play for.
Speaker 5 (42:17):
W U right now?
Speaker 4 (42:19):
Really, yeah, no, you you you can't. Yeah, I mean
and and and I and I'll ask you both this question.
Do you think that the reality of parents, Let's say,
I don't care where high school. Do they really understand
the skill set and talents of collegiate athletes. I don't
(42:39):
care if you even go to D three do you
think they understand exactly what's happening out there? Have they
have they looked at or watched and gone to a
game to actually understand like the physicality of it, the
skill set of it if it's basketball, and and say,
I'm not sure my son is quite ready for that
(43:01):
yet or is in that space. Have they done their
research yet?
Speaker 9 (43:08):
I think they have. Man, I don't think there's any
false free conceptions when it comes to collegiate athletics. I
think they have some of those when it comes to
like high school and you know whether your kids are
going to be good from middle school to high school.
I think we see that a lot obviously. But I
think when you're talking about collegiate athletics, I don't think
(43:29):
it's a mystery no more. You know, we see kids
now they're not just taking They're just not just looking
for the Wzu and Marshall offers or the higher states
or what they're taking a lower level Division one office.
They're taking a Division two offers because they realize, hey,
I don't have to be stuck here. If I performed,
then I can move. So I think the reality you're
(43:49):
setting in and it's here because they know that hey, coaches,
the scholarship that we're available for high school recruits have
been cut in half, and that like Hans you just
mentioned previously, at some top programs, they've been cut by
seventy five ninety percent. So they realized that, hey, I'm
going to have to take a different pathway to get
to my desired destination.
Speaker 6 (44:12):
And if you think about it, it's almost a I
don't want to say a smarter way to do it,
because sometimes I don't think those that's smart and I
portoole go in the same same sentence. But in a way,
this is if there's anything positive you can take out
of it. I feel like those kids coming out of
high school going to a smaller school, you know, a
(44:33):
more of a hometown type of feel setting at those
at those lower levels, those those you know, the the
Jucos and all those different types of schools. It gives
them time to mature, time to realize, you know, it's
kind of like a stepping stone, and they can they
can kind of work through those, you know, the freshman
kind of things that kids go through, being away from home,
(44:57):
trying to absorb being on their own independent. Some of
these kids now have had to do that before taking
care of themselves balancing you know, school, in sports and
work or whatnot, so in a way that you know,
instead of being thrown into a duke or in Ohio
State right out of the gates. Sometimes that's kind of
a demise for some kids. Do you guys not agree
that it can be too much?
Speaker 5 (45:17):
Yeah? I could.
Speaker 4 (45:17):
I could see that, And I'll say this, Hollis. I
was on the phone with with with Damon Booker and
a couple of other guys Charles Smith today for for
for just another reason, and one of the reflections that
they all have is the early morning running. You know,
(45:41):
all of those kinds of things that in their mindset
now that that was the that's the fun of it.
They can remember that, you know, all the punishments and
who got in trouble at what and what I what
I would say to them or what I did with them.
Speaker 5 (45:59):
They they remember all of those kinds of things.
Speaker 4 (46:03):
And I told them like when I look back at
Marshall and what I dealt with with Marshall.
Speaker 5 (46:09):
It's the same thing.
Speaker 4 (46:10):
You don't even necessarily remember or even need to talk
about the games or a play you made or anything.
Speaker 5 (46:18):
What you get from sports.
Speaker 4 (46:21):
Is the is the structure of it all discipline, the discipline,
and you get to reflect on, you know, how the
coach yelled at you, how much the coach made you run.
That actually is the ground level of of I think
collegiate sports, high school sports. If you can get that,
(46:43):
if you have that, you've had an experience. To me,
it's not even so much about winning. It's not even
so much about being on the best team or what.
You know, how many people actually get to be on
the best team. Only that team. Most of everybody else
is either second or the bottom, you know, And even
if you had bottom, you still get the experience. You
(47:05):
get to say, we won this particular game, you know,
and I can remember how happy everybody was. And to me,
that's all sports is. That's all it has to be.
All it has to be to me, is just a
happy memory, you know, and reflecting on all of that.
(47:28):
And very few people will make it from middle school
youth football, to middle school, middle school, the high school,
high school.
Speaker 5 (47:38):
The college, college, the pro.
Speaker 4 (47:42):
If you can come out of any one of those
and you can find a moment of happiness, then to
me and pride and pride, did you give your all.
I can remember being cut. I remember getting cut and
in Minnesota's like my third year and I got and
I was like, all right, if I get back in,
(48:05):
if I get another opportunity, I will make sure this
will never happen again. And it wasn't that I wasn't
in shape, It wasn't any of that. It was just
the fact that they thought somebody was better. I get
back and now I get an opportunity to say, this
is never gonna happen again. I'm gonna outwork any and
everybody possible moments, those negative moments, you can benefit from
(48:27):
those things. Sure, And I think I don't know if
we have. And I think and I'm saying that to
say that, I think that some of our kids now
they have to realize when something goes negative, you can
turn that into a positive.
Speaker 5 (48:41):
But if you stay in the negative, you got nothing.
Speaker 4 (48:46):
And and I think I'm one hundred percent right on
that one, Hollis, Can you can you fight me on that?
Speaker 9 (48:53):
No? No, I think you're right. Like I said, I
think that's the issue. Now. It's like, like like I said,
if you you are a you know, a good athlete,
now you have a Division one caliber, you may not
get that look now like you may not. You may
not get that look that you think he deserves coming
(49:14):
out of high school. So the challenge for you now,
and that's like, you know, if you have the prerequisite height,
skills and everything else, then you may have to go
to a different path. You may have to go through that.
You may not have to. You may be somewhere where
it's not as glamorous or you're not getting any And again,
not everybody's getting that nil money. It's not like it's
just like everybody's getting that. Most college athletes are still
(49:36):
you know, living, So you may have to go to
a different path in order to get there. You may
have to show that resiliency. And the thing about it is,
regardless of anything else, can you stay in the rain?
Can you deal with it? Can you overcome fight to
get to where you think you deserve? And I think athletes,
now that's going to be the contest, and unfortunately for
(49:59):
a lot of athletes, they're not going to be they're
not really going to experience that level of adversity until
they get to college because we've made you know, youth
league and middle school and high school programs a lot
more comfortable than they want worse as far as the
amenities and everything else. Right, So that's that's gonna be
the great divide as to whether you can mentally stand
(50:22):
uh to get to the place that you think you
ought to be.
Speaker 6 (50:26):
Yeah, you have to have perseverance for sure. But but
I also stand I'm going to stand by what I said.
You know, like I said, this may be a good thing.
It's it's gonna build better players. I mean to me,
if you have to go from the high school level
and then you have to fight your way to uh,
you know, a D two up to a D one,
and then you know, to more of the elite colleges,
(50:47):
you've got to naturally work harder and be better than
everybody else on the landscape. So to me, it may
it may improve you know, the quality of college basketball
that we see.
Speaker 4 (50:59):
Well, and I I'll close this out on this one,
I think, unless somebody wants to comment back on it.
You know, again, I go back and I look at Marshall,
and I look at the games that we lost, you know,
and how bad we felt about losing them, and you know,
not having you know, a winning record and all of that.
Speaker 5 (51:20):
But to you, all's point it.
Speaker 4 (51:24):
What matters is what you do, how you respond to
those situations. You know, we again, we didn't have the
ability to leave, so you only had one or two options.
You could keep playing take all the losses, or you
could quit and become a student. You know, and I
(51:45):
think you know most of our guys, a lot of
guys stayed. And the bond that we have in that
idea of being quote a foundation of success at Marshall.
Whether you want to call it that or not, we
call it that. I think we're we get to be
(52:08):
proud because we were part of of the rebuild. We
don't get the we don't get the luxury, we don't
get the rings, we don't get all that.
Speaker 5 (52:15):
But but what.
Speaker 4 (52:16):
We know is we know we took the losses, we
kept the program going. You're part of the We're part
of the legacy. And I think you know, and I
and I and I and I feel like that's that's
something that being part of a team, regardless win or lose,
there's opportunity to learn something and be a better person
(52:38):
by it. Because winning and losing at this point to
me in my life, which is which is a horrible
thing for me to even try to be a coach
because all that matters to me is the kids are
working hard. We're doing the best we can do, and
I'm good with it. So, you know, but people, you
know again, people want to win, Halis.
Speaker 6 (52:56):
I want to hear him say that after the Vikings
losing the playoffs next year.
Speaker 4 (52:59):
Too, I'm gonna make the prediction We're going Super Bowl.
Speaker 5 (53:06):
So I'll make that.
Speaker 4 (53:08):
I'll put that out there right now. How had you
got anything else?
Speaker 9 (53:11):
Man? No, that's it.
Speaker 4 (53:14):
All right, ladies and gentlemen. We're gonna get out of here.
We appreciate you being here. We'll get back with you again.
Speaker 3 (53:20):
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(53:42):
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Speaker 4 (53:48):
If you fall, does it dough? For get back up
for your feet.
Speaker 2 (53:51):
Anything will be a win, yup, even the feet that
say shit's a bath for you.
Speaker 4 (53:55):
Wis ververy sweet. Couldn't play with big kids. I had
to sit in the street and watch from a disk.
Just put over time. I grew.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
If I put in the work in no time, I'm doing.
Speaker 4 (54:04):
Everything that I worked in prayer. I'm okay.
Speaker 2 (54:07):
If you ask me how did I do it, I'm
gonna say. You gotta work, crime shine, just mine gotta show.
Everybody is my time hein in. You gotta work, cry shine.
Never mind who talking died this day line, don't talk.
Speaker 1 (54:20):
You gotta work. You gotta work. You gotta work. You
gotta work, You gotta work. You gotta work.
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