The Mission Statement

Mike and Fred are proud to introduce Level Select, a podcast about video games and video game development! On this episode they talk a little about their experience, their goals for the show, the games they're playing, a little bit of news, and answer some audience questions.

Episode Transcript

(00:12):
Welcome to Level Select, a showabout games and game development. I'm your
host, Fred Wood, and I'myour host Mike Devir. How's it going,
Mike good. I'm doing all right, you know, I am.
I am. We're post packs eastto date this episode. You settle back
in on that work a grind,doing good. Drinking coffee. Ye a

(00:36):
damn fine cup of coffee, ifI do say so myself. Mike held
the cup up to the webcam fora second. I just have to call
it out. Yeah, yeah,yeah, I'm drinking out of a Twin
Peaks coffee mug. Yeah. Um. Yeah. And this is, as
Fred mentioned, a podcast about videogames and about game development, as Fred
and I are both people that somehowsnuck our way into the games industry and

(01:00):
no one's told us to leave yet. Yeah. It was recent that I
realized, oh, I've been doingthis for a while. You really have,
Yeah, more longer than I have, which also still feels like a
while. So you are just likean industry veteran at this point. That's
gross. I don't like that,but it's not wrong. I've been in

(01:22):
and around development for kind of along time. Yeah, so these days
I am doing independent development and contractdevelopment on Delta in whereas Mike, what
do you do in these days ingames? These days? Because I have
been I've done a weird mishmash ofthings in the games industry, both tabletop

(01:42):
and video. But these days Iam working on the development and acquisition of
games to publish for the company thatI work for, which is a big
fancy way of saying I talked togame developers a lot, and then I
figure out which games that we aregoing to give money to publish. Yeah.

(02:04):
Yeah, and it's it's a prettycool job. I really like.
It involves playing a lot of videogames, So don't be surprised if I
talk about some of the cooler onesI come across on this show. Yeah.
And we should talk about the goalof this show because we so we
did a podcast for years with ourfriendly by Southerland, and that was a
mishmash of a whole bunch of justus keeping up with one another. But

(02:28):
for this one, we want tobe an outlet for people to talk about
things in the industry that they're excitedabout, that they're passionate about. We
want to have we want to havedevelopers on to come and talk a little
bit about their games, but morespecifically tell stories that wouldn't normally get told.
And we want to have people onwho aren't just the coders and the

(02:50):
artists, but like we want tohave the media producers, we want to
have the social media managers, wewant to have QA testers, just people
who have had the different experiences inthe industry that really are not as covered.
Yeah, just because I mean,you know, talking with people and
hearing their stories something that you justnaturally do a lot, either through the

(03:10):
course of the work or going toconventions like Pax East or just any kind
of mixers like that. Games developmentis weird. It is just across the
board. It's a very weird thing. And you know, there's there's always
the prevailing discussion of like, ohmy god, people don't really know what
really is happening when games are gettingmade. But like people don't really know

(03:31):
what's going on and what's happening whengames are getting made. Sometimes those people
are the people making the games.Yeah, TODA is especially on larger projects,
right, so there's there's always justa lot there to discuss and to
open the doors on. And Yeah, I think we're wanting to kind of

(03:53):
not so much demystify, but sharewith some of the more let's call them
interest We like fun stories and yeah, so you know, the podcast is
an excuse for us to talk toeach other every week and also talk to
cool people who do cool things.Yes, so this show is for us

(04:13):
and we hope it's also for you. Yeah, thanks for joining us,
But we don't have a guest thisweek. No, because this is our
this is our Lucy Goosey pilot.Yeah. It also seemed really, at
least for me and I think Fredas well, it seemed really weird to
go up to someone like, hey, we have zero listeners. Do you
want to be on our show?I mean we did. We have gone

(04:34):
up to a lot of people andsaid, hey, we are going to
do a podcast, will you pleasebe on it? And we've gotten a
lot of people to say yes.So that's fair. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, but I think I thinkwe want to put our best foot forward
first and then and then come backto that and not you know, so
this is the pilot. Not everyepisode is going to be us like waxing
cathartic about ourselves and what we wantto do. But you know, like

(04:56):
gotta have a mission statement. Iguess upfront, right, and you know
that way we can direct people toepisode one and be like go watch,
go, start from the beginning.Yeah. Yeah, So video games,
that's a thing that we make,but also it's the thing that we play.
This is a bad transition. It'sgood, it's good, but I

(05:18):
wanted to bring up the video game. This is such a bad pivot.
But this week The Stanley Parable Ultradelicscame out, which is the expansion slash
really slash port of The Stanley Parable, which came out in twenty thirteen a
little while ago, and it's beenported to consoles finally for the first time.

(05:42):
Originally it was a mod for HalfLife two. I actually it might
have been a Half Life one mod. Not sure about that, oh really.
And then when it was released commercially, that was a Source Engine two
release, which was the Half Lifetwo engine. And then this is a
full port over to or a fullremake in Unity, where they also have

(06:04):
just really blown the heck out ofit and there's a lot more game to
it. The Stanley Parable is agame where you play as a man named
Stanley who has woken up in hisoffice or is at work and realizes that
all of his co workers are gone. I'm like quoting verbatim the narrator at

(06:24):
this point, but as Stanley movesthrough the office, a narrator is narrating
everything Stanley does, to the pointthat you come to a set of doors
and the narrator says, Stanley tookthe door on the left. At that
point, you can do what thenarrator said, or you can take the
door on the right, And thenthings continue. The narrator adapts and responds

(06:48):
to everything that you're doing. Itis very funny. I think I know
that, Mike, back when youplayed it in twenty thirteen, it was
not your jam. Yeah, sothe original game I and this is going
to put it a little mildly.I struggled with it. Yeah, um,

(07:08):
I I struggled with getting into it, seeing its premise, seeing I
kind of like I felt like Iunderstood why it was important, but I
was refusing to acknowledge why it wasgood because I think that they're that those
can be two different things for anypiece of media, because like, for

(07:30):
example, I think that Joel Schumacher'sBatman films are important, but I don't
think they're good yeah, that's right, And so I was I was having
that same struggle with the Stanley Parable, where it's like I got why this
was like an important watershed moment forvideo games, but something about the game
just chafed me, and I justlike to say I disliked it again is

(07:56):
putting it mildly like I think,Freddie. It's one of the few times
that you and I got like genuinelyargument to do. I adored the Stanley
Parable so much and for you tobe like, yeah, no, this
isn't good, like just like reallyupset me in a way, and I'm
excited for you to go back toit. But right, so I'm actually

(08:16):
probably gonna pick this up and playthis so that when we record next time,
um, I'll be able to tocome in with an opinion because it's
like I saw the trailers for stuff, and I saw some like the fun
little bits that they had added,including is the thing with the narrator voice
real or is that just I don'tso here. The thing is that every

(08:39):
bit of marketing they put out forthe game is not in the game.
Okay, That's what that's really putso much work into creating like hilarious content
that just has nothing to like isnot inside the game, which is great
because like, if you spoil anyaspect of this game, then you're sing

(09:00):
out on the content. And likethe game refers to the stuff in the
game as the content, and intwenty twenty two referring to something that you
put your heart and soul into ascontent, and like the discussion around content
is so heartbreaking, very poignant,It is so wonderfully self aware. Yeah,

(09:22):
and it's it's something that I'm alsolooking forward to because what was the
second game that he'd put out,The Beginner's Guide? Because yes, I
so like, while I didn't clickwith The Stanley Parable, I loved The
Beginner's Guide, Like I think aboutthat game still to this day. Yeah,
And so I think that's why I'mexcited to go back and retry it

(09:43):
personally, because it's I literally thinkwith The Stanley Parable at twenty four twenty
three, I like legitimately will sayI don't think I was mature enough for
that game at that time. Idon't want to harp on it too much
because if you're going to check itout again and will have something to talk
about next time, but if you'venever played the Stanley Parable, don't worry.

(10:05):
This is the game to pick upsince it does include all of it.
At the beginning, there's a littlequestionnaire that asks if you have played
the Stanley Variable before, and ifyou say yes, they just show you
the new content a little sooner,but otherwise you can have the native Stanley
Parable experience on its own. It'sa game about the illusion of choice and

(10:28):
video games, because anything you cando in these highly scripted games is considered
by the developer. Yeah, soall of your choices are not meaningless,
but they like they're not your You'renot the one really choosing to do this.
Well, it's the game tackles alot with the idea of, like

(10:48):
saying free will in like a metaphysicalsense. I think it's a bit too
much, but you know, butit tackles with the idea of like your
free will and video games and yeah, like Fred putts so pointedly that you
kind of don't actually have any becauseyou don't have the freedom to genuinely to
do whatever you want because this isa computer that has to do computer things.

(11:11):
Yeah, Like, it's not aprocedurally generated game. This is back
from a time when procedural generation wasvery new, like Minecraft is the hit
new video game back when this is. But even even something like Minecraft has
limits, Yeah, for sure,you know. So it's it's I think
I think that's where that game sitswell. And again it's why I'm interested

(11:31):
in going back to check it outnow that my head is pulled firmly out
of my butt. Cool what you'vebeen playing. I've been playing a bunch
of stuff, But we're gonna We'regonna lead off on a bit of a
sour note because I think I puta bunch of time into and would kind
of like it back has been aTotal War Warhammer three, the capstone of

(11:52):
a trilogy of games made by theTotal War folks that despite the first two
games being pretty great, like genuinelyvery fun strategy games with like a mixture
of you know, down in thetrench's battle stuff and grant strategy elements,
this game is not fun in itscurrent state. So to get it out

(12:18):
of the game, the base mechanicsof everything are rock solid, right,
like they've got it all figured out, They've got it all taken care of,
and the quality of life improvements aregreat, but the quality of content
on offer feels a little anemic,and the main campaign mode that's on offer

(12:39):
is rough. In a few spots, there's a mechanic where even if you
play the game perfectly, you canbasically still lose, just because that's what
happens. And you know, there'snothing like playing a campaign for like fifteen
hours playing it perfectly, have buildingan empire that would make Alexander the Great

(13:01):
weep in its magnificence, and thensomeone's like, ah, yeah, but
this dude got the thing a bitquicker than you did buy and you're done,
and that's it, and the wholething is over. And that sucks,
especially because with the prior games,you know, even while that their
their sort of secondary campaign offer wasn'tthe best, they always had something called

(13:22):
the Mortal Empires, which is nowbeing called the Immortal Empires because it's got
to be bigger and better. Whereit was just like Global Grand Strategy,
Right, here's your little plot ofland, expand conquer, takeover, etc.
And you can't even really do thathere, which makes it very frustrating.
And again, with the nature ofthese games, there's just a lot

(13:45):
there that feels unpolished, a littlerushed, like there are things that if
you're not familiar with those games.Basically, all your armies from Total War
Warhammer one carry over into Total warWarhammer two, and then you buy the
armature Total War Warhammer two, andthen you've got the armies from one the
armies of two, and you've goton all the play with those. Most
of those armies you don't have accessto them in Total War Warhammer three.

(14:07):
You want to do that campaign mode, you get like the four armies that
are new. Oh so it justkind of resets everything right, and because
that like the Mortal Empire stuff andsome of the other stuff isn't in the
game. You just don't have accessto content you've already purchased outside of like
small skirmish battle modes and that kindof stuff. Was this released in like
early access or something or no,it's a full sixty dollars retail game that

(14:31):
was launched. You know that theyare charging sixty dollars four and then there's
going to be DLC which costs twentybucks for new armies because that's how much
new armies cost. And the gamefeels like the best way I can I
can describe it is it it feelslike when street Fighter five first came out.
Oh yeah, we have a greatskeleton of a video game, but

(14:52):
I don't think it's going to bea full video game until like a year
or two from now or longer instreet Fighter's case, right, right,
And it's I mean street Fighter fivenow. Street Fighter five now is incredible,
right, And that's why I'm hopefulthat down the line the game gets
better. Um. I was alatecomer to the Total war game, to
the Total war Warhammer games, sofrom what I understand, I think Total

(15:13):
Warhammer two kind of had a similarrocky start, So I am confident that
the game is going to get there, And especially do you use the street
Fighter five reference, I think streetFighter five now is probably the second best
street Fighter game ever in my opinion. I know there's everyone's going to have
their fighting game opinions, Super TurboAlpha two, what's your favorite third Strike?

(15:37):
Street Fighter three? Third Strike ismy that's my measuring stick. But
but yeah, it's like, Ithink five has genuinely turned out, at
the end of its lifespan to bea very fantastic game, and I'm hoping
that for Total War Warhammer three becauselike what's there is really fun and if
you like strategy games, it's ablast, but there's not enough of it.
And if someone was like, oh, I'm going to get into these

(15:58):
games, what should I get,be like just by the first two?
Yeah, and then wait until threeis like either on sale or like a
year from now. I say,because right now it seems like it's worth
forty bucks and not sixty. Man, I feel real bad. So one
of the things I really want todo with this podcast is talk about things
that were really positive about right yes, and like we can't always be And

(16:21):
I understand that that's the case ofthe Total War war Hammer three. It
also is the case with what Iwanted to talk about next, which is
Halo Infinite Season two. Oh no, man, Like Halo Infinite is a
phenomenal video game. The campaign,while this story itself is a bit dumb,
it is some of the most funin averse person shooter I've had.

(16:45):
Yeah, And Halo Infinite Season tworealistically is just the multiplayer update, right,
they did take out some of thefun stuff in the campaign. They
recently removed some speed run tricks.Why I don't know, Like they removed
this like very overpowered glitch gun inthe game, which I can kind of

(17:07):
understand if you're trying to get playersto play through the Legendary campaign or the
Lasso campaign where it's incredibly difficult andyou get some sort of reward at the
end of it, then like,sure, you don't want to make it
too easy. There is no rewardfor beating the game on Legendary though,
so I mean there's a slightly differentending that doesn't have enough context to be

(17:30):
interesting, Okay, But so theymade they took the fun, well,
some of the fun. There's stilltons and tons of fun to be had
in Halo Infinities campaign, but theytook some of that ut. And for
the multiplayer, they added two newmaps and they're cool, Like one of
them is is incredibly cool. Ithink it's a four runner based level,

(17:52):
which we just didn't have much ofany in the multiplayer so far. And
then they added a couple of newmodes, including one that is a very
very loose concept of a battle royalewhere it's I think it's thirty two players.
It might not be that many,but it's like thirty two players.
It's last spartan standing, you havefive lives, and everybody starts with just

(18:18):
a pistol, and as you killthings, kill other spartans, you get
points and that levels up your characterand then once you've died five times,
then you're out. And that islike cool and it's interesting. It's unbalanced,
like hell right now, and it'sit's very strange. How if you
don't mind me asking, how doesthat work with the because like Halo maps,

(18:40):
especially some of the ones in Infinite, and I don't think this is
bad. They're cramped levels. Yeah, this one's the one that they stuck
it on. Is pretty big.Okay. I haven't spent enough time with
it to actually even know the breadthof that map. Yeah, but it
feels pretty dang big. It's cool. But one of the problems with Halo
Infinite in season one is a lotof the time or a lot of the

(19:03):
time that the game was hot,Big Team Battle wasn't working properly, which
was the twelve on twelve multiplayer modewhich I was playing with a group of
friends that we would frequently have morethan four people who wanted to play,
right, and if if we wantedto play together, we would have to
play the Big Team Battle mode,And so when that didn't work, we

(19:23):
all stopped kind of playing Halo.Now with season two is here, we
want to play again together and there'sa new battle pass which is fun to
fill out. You like seeing thenumbers go up, you like unlocking stuff.
But they started it with this event, this last Spartan standing mode,
which is very cool. That issingle player only, Like, you can't

(19:45):
go in with a team, Socan you go in with like a lobby
of your friends in the know,because then because it's you know, like
everybody's trying to win, you'd havepeople teaming up to take out everybody else,
and then I guess cheat your waythrough, right. I understand why
it's why it's single player only,but it and like, this is something

(20:07):
that affects me and my group offriends, but it doesn't necessarily affect the
majority of like serious Halo players.Maybe they want to go in and play
alone, but there their big eventmakes me not. It keeps me from
going in and playing with my friends, which is right. And what I
was going to say is that Iwould assume from a casual perspective, I
don't mean that as like a derogatoryand I know it can come off as

(20:30):
one, but like from casual gameplayperspective, you just want to sit down
and play with your friends. Notreally having a lot of options to do
that is a bummer. Yeah,I mean so big Team battleworks now and
there is new content for that.So like the King of the Hill,
which has been in since Halo one, they finally put that into Halo Infinite.
Talking about incomplete, a lot ofthings are missing in Halo Infinite that

(20:52):
they're slowly putting in. And ifyou take a look at Master Chief Collection,
which I think also came out intwenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, like
that game was a mess when itcame out. Now it is the perfect
way to revisit all of the Halogames except for Halo five. And I
think that given time, Halo Infinitewill get to the place that it will
eventually be. I mean that obviously, but like I think it'll be a

(21:15):
fantastic game when it's done. Butlike right now, you don't have the
use generated Forge mode, you don'thave co op either online or offline yet,
and these are things that are workingon and they'll get in there.
But like this is a game thatwas supposed to launch with the Xbox Series
S and Series X, and theydelayed it about a month before it was

(21:37):
supposed to come out a full year, and so for that full year,
you'd think that, Okay, wellthey're going to nail it at the gate.
And while the game that came outlast November was an absolute blast,
it was incomplete, and here weare in May of twenty twenty two and
it's still incomplete. And of coursethe t V shows happening, and that's

(22:00):
just souring me on the Halo fandomas well, or not fandom, but
the franchise. Like it's it's arough time to be a Halo fan.
I was gonna say, And forpeople that that might not know who Fred
and I are, Fred being souredon the Halo franchises, Like that's a
big deal. I mean it isn'tas it isn't Like Halo five came out

(22:23):
and I was pretty sour, butHalo Infinity came out and I was on
cloud nine right right. But Iwas gonna say, like, this franchise
has kind of been your writer diesince the first game. Yeah, I
mean this and Sonic Yeah yeah,So like that's what I mean. It's
like this is rough. Yeah,I adore Halo, and it feels like
everything they're doing at the moment isreally making me not happy to be a

(22:45):
Halo fan, and that kind ofsucks. Yeah, I think they'll get
it right, but this franchise istreating me wrong right now. On the
subject of franchises that we adore treatingus right, we'll move on to the
next one, talking about games thathave tons of content out of the gate.
Also a game that we can bothtalk about because we've both engaged with.
Yeah, so I've been on mysecond play through of elden Ring,

(23:07):
which is a game I don't thinkI have stopped playing since it launched in
late February. Man, this isa bit hyperbolic, but like every open
world game now has to live upto this level. I think. While
I'm not going to make like superdeclared of statements about like Western open world
games versus like the way that gameslike Birth of the Wild and elden Ring

(23:29):
have handled them, because obviously they'rethey're achieving very different things, there's just
something about playing elden Ring that isjust like, for me personally, my
ideal video game. And I'm goingto talk about this a little bit more
later. But the fact that thisgame came out was as packed to the
gills with content as it is,and then with like the concurrent patches,

(23:52):
they have apparently just added more content. That is the thing that has surprised
me the most about elden Ring isthough like time a patch comes out,
they're like, hey, there's morequest steps now. Now the NBCs do
more stuff. It's like, oh, okay, yeah, And I was
like they were already doing a bunch, Like yeah, they were already doing
tons of stuff. I mean,this is a game that like every time

(24:14):
I was I was close to beingdone with it for a night, I'd
be like, all right, well, I'll just go to this direction for
a band. It's like, oh, I'm underground. Oh I'm so far
underground that it has a sky again, this game is amazing, right,
And it's it's one of those thingswhere for me, I just remember having
a moment where I was in thatone of those underground segments. I had

(24:36):
just gotten there. I'm looking upat this purple sky with these glittering stars
and just being like yeah, yeah, video games. Yeah, And just
like it conjured a feeling in mein the same way that like playing Devil
May Christ three for the first timedid or playing just like a lot of
games that I really adore for thefirst time where I was just like,

(25:00):
man, video games rule. Thisis what it's about. Just doing cool,
you know, like beating Halo threeon Legendary with my friend for the
first time. You know, likejust stuff like that where you're just swept
up in the moment. But thegame's also really dumb at points, which
I also love, and I thinkthat there there needs to be a conversation
about games and they're silly imperfections andhow sometimes that's a good thing, because

(25:26):
there's something about killing an enemy,watching them ragged all to the ground and
then for some reason, maybe theyhit the ledge the wrong way, maybe
they had a physics issue with thebarrel they touched, maybe the stairs just
weren't agreeing with them, or yourbody was in the way. But watching
that little body freak out and thenshoot off into the sky, don't take

(25:48):
don't fix it, don't fix it, Like stuff like that. I love
it because it's one of those like, oh, yeah, games were made
by humans, Yeah, how howfar have you gotten into the game?
Because I know you were having somestruggles with the way the difficulty just spikes.
So where I am in the gamenow is where I think I'm done.
I think I adore the game,and I don't think I'm going to

(26:10):
finish it. But I got tothe Draconic Sentinel, which kept me outside
of Landell Landell, and then Iwas going down Rainey's Quest and I am
stuck at the two gargoyles, Yes, the one giant gargoyle thing I'm fighting,
and then all of a sudden anotherone with like two swords comes out,
and it's just like, hey,you know how you were struggling,

(26:30):
You're done? Yeah, And I'mplaying it completely single player, offline because
I wanted to play the game ina higher frame rate with ultra wide screen,
so that's a that's like a youthing specific. And I also wanted
to feel like I could beat thegame on its own terms, sure,
which I will say the fact thatyou are because you know we've we've beaten

(26:52):
Dark Souls together, we've played DemonSouls together. I will say the fact
that you've gotten this far on yourown with no help is a testament because,
as someone who has played all ofthe suite of media, he to
talk to Miyazaki Games. From thebeginning, this game is brutal totally,

(27:12):
but at the same time, likethis is the most approachable Souls game has
ever been, because if you runinto a wall that you can't climb,
I can just hit the brakes,go over there, Yeah, just go
somewhere else, find something else fora bit. And while I cannot beat
these two bosses, like in thesevery wildly differing paths, I every time

(27:33):
I feel like logging in, Ican just kind of go off in another
direction and have another adventure for alittle bit. And so I love it
for that reason. But I thinkthe thing that actually killed my elden Ring
Run is the next game I wantedto talk about, which is Tunic Yeah,
which is a game published by Finjithat is primarily made by one person

(27:56):
with a lot of help, butlike Primary only made by one person.
It looks like a Zelda game fromscreenshots. Playing it feels like a Souls
game in terms of combat, itis locking on managing stamina, dodge,
rolling shields, incredibly challenging bosses,and then what it really is is a

(28:21):
series of mcguffin hunting and then crazymeta learning experiences like Tunic is my game
of the year so far. Yeah, you'd mentioned that before in a conversation,
and I guess I just want toask. And because I haven't played
Tunic yet, it's on my listof things like Stanley parabol Ultra Deluxe to

(28:41):
check out soon, I guess,what about this game's gameplay, what it's
doing, like, what about itdistills it into the thing that it is
for you? Because I've heard aton of buzz but every time I've asked,
no one's really like illuminated me.The reason that no one can really
illuminate you is because if they do, I think that they are spoiling the

(29:03):
game in a way that kind ofmight ruin it for you. Okay,
the game teaches you how to playit in such interesting ways. Like I
said, it seems like a Zeldagame, and then it seems like a
Souls game, but it's actually likemore than those things, and it's and
not in like some grand way,but like the moment to moment learning different

(29:23):
things like even the upgrade system orsomething like is something that like you learn
kind of naturally while playing the game. And I hate to even say that
much because the thing, the feelingof Discovery in that game hit with me
even stronger than it did an EldenRing, which is a game built on

(29:44):
that dopamine hit of Oh what's this? The cool thing about Tunic is that
it's on game Pass, Like,yeah, which this is going to be
probably what I imagined is one ofdozens of free advertisements for the game Pass
that we're going to give the bestget deal in video. Yet if you
don't have it, it's it's tenbucks, y'all. Like Fred had to

(30:07):
drag me over into getting one forlike years, but then I did.
Like, you can also go andbuy like three years of Xbox Live on
the cheap and then pay a dollarto upgrade that, like and this is
an exploit that has existed since thebeginning of game Pass, and they they're
just like, yeah, it's fine, don't worry about it. And you
also get games like The Good Lifeon there, which is another fantastic game.

(30:30):
I need to play that you we'lltalk about it, okay, So
that that's interesting. Yeah, it'sa game that needs to be played.
Like Also, I was talking toRyan Shott, our friend, who was
saying, like, this game mightnot like I think that if some people
bought this game expecting to go intoit thinking one thing about it. There

(30:55):
are a lot of people who wouldhave been immediately turned off and refunded that
game, right, well, becausemy initial thing going into it was just
that it was I was going toplay cute little Zelda game with a little
fox boy. And then it's alsohard as hell sometimes, right, And
then I started seeing stuff like that, and then I started seeing some of
the puzzle things, and then againthe general conversation around it, and I

(31:15):
was like, oh, this isdifferent. The puzzle also seems insurmountable when
you first, like when you discoversome of the puzzle of the game,
you're like, oh, I'm goingto need to go find like a tutorial
online to just get past this point. But it's super accessible. The way

(31:37):
you learn in that game is byreading the instruction manual, and the instruction
manual is not written in any normallanguage, Like you can't just read it,
So you're looking at pictures and you'repiecing together through context of like what's
on the pages, what it's tryingto teach you, and then when you
get to the final puzzle, likethe only hint I will give anybody is

(31:59):
it is all in the instruction manual. So that's fun. Fine, find
the pages of the instruction manual inthe game and you'll find everything. Yeah,
okay, let's talk about the lastgame Slash pair of games. Yeah.
So again, for people who arenew to the show, I'm going
to apologize. I love from Softwaregames, love them, and not even

(32:23):
just the recent ones. I loveArmored Core, I love I just love
their games. Like I'm blanking ona couple of three D dot game heroes.
I think that's a game that wassuper underrated from that generation. I
love weird, ambitious jank. Ifyour game has a lot of ambition but

(32:45):
it is a little crusty, chancesare you've got a fan and a patron
in me. So I'm going totalk about the game from Software game first
and then segue that into a gameI've been recently playing. I checked out
Kingsfield for about a year ago whenI was working as an editor for an
indie gaming mag and I because Iwanted to know like where not just the

(33:08):
Souls games come came from. Butlike I never checked out that series because
it always just seemed a little toobad to play. Sure, yeah,
you know, because they're not elegantgames, right, Like the controls are
weird. You're like using the shoulderbuttons to look up and down in turn.
Because the last Kingsfield game, Ithink it came out before the first

(33:30):
Halo game, so we're in apre Twin Sticks supremacy movement world that was
on PS two though right was yesto the early early two thousand and one
on the PS two, and thenthe other Kingsfield games were all on PlayStation
um. But I eventually fell inlove with it and found Kingsfield for genuinely
to be a game that is notjust like good, but I think overlooked

(33:55):
for how genius its level design isand how it managed is to tell very
little story but have a very engagingstory just by the nature of the player
going through their adventure. And soeven though I'm playing all these Souls games
and Elden Ring, I wanted somethinga bit more like Kingsfield, And so
I've been looking and playing games andnot really hitting that same oomph until it

(34:17):
came across the game called Lunacid,which is a game and early access on
Steam right now, which is beingdesigned in that similar vein to old school
from software dungeon crawlers like Kingsfield ShadowTower. Yeah, they say straight up
on the same store page. Yeahthey are, and there is no they're

(34:37):
making no bones about it, likethey are. Letticit as a first person
dungeon crawler inspired by old fromsoft gameslike Shadow Tower in Kingsfield. Yeah,
it is right what it says onthe tin, which for me has been
really great. Like the game.Obviously, it's an early access, so
it's not like one hundred percent perfect, and there are certain things about it
that don't quite capture that same vein, but the fact that even some is

(35:00):
going for it and trying to keepthat spirit alive has been really fun.
And I'm pretty early on and dothe game still, but I'm already enjoying
what I'm playing of it, andI will probably check in on this once
I've completed what's available, probably nextweek to give a little update. But
yeah, it's just a game thatlike clearly is a passion project, is

(35:21):
a little rough around the edges,but still has those same things of like,
you know, wanting to be alittle bit more dangerous, wanting to
be a little bit more engaging withmaking the player kind of have to think
like Okay, well I can skirtthis enemy, so like it's going to
be a bit more worth it thangoing in because I've got two healing items
in half of my health and Idon't know what I'm going to find more

(35:44):
healing items because I don't have ahealing spell. So you know, making
those choices, I think for meis something that's very important in dungeon crawlers
and something that is lost in alot of similar games, not just in
modern from software games, but Ifeel like a lot of fantasy games don't
give you that sense of, ohgod, I'm like deep in this dungeon.
I'm I'm low one resources. Butgoing back is way more frustrating than

(36:09):
continuing to go forward. And that'ssomething that both Kingsfield for and Lunacid have
both provided, is that sense ofchances are there's going to be something worthwhile
ahead, but also like sometimes youmight find a huge monster that's going to
beat the crap out of you andyou know that was you made the bad
choice, but like that's fun.So the controls are they better? And

(36:30):
Lunacid absolutely yeah. Lunacid's controls aremuch more modernized, have a much more
modern UI and set up. It'snot nearly as esoteric as both the Kingsfield
games and just certain from software conventionsget like they kind of finally figured out
by like Secular and elden Ring howto like be like here's how things work,

(36:52):
but it was a long road toget there. So yeah, I
think Lunacid's definitely worth checking out.It's also seven dollars right, like,
and that's kind of why I justdove into it, Like this game is
absolutely worth the seven bucks in itscurrent state, and if it keeps at
that price point going forward, thenI think it's going to be a genuinely
good steal in one of those sortof little indie sleeper titles that I'm going

(37:15):
to keep coming back to. Speakingof things worth checking out, how about
the news, I guess so Iwanted to say, so we talked about
a lot of games this week.We don't normally play this many games per
week. We probably won't take aslong as we did this time, but
you know, like we don't havea guest on this week, so yeah,
you're here with us. Yeah,so there are a million podcasts out

(37:37):
there doing the news, so we'renot gonna just obliviate on about the news,
but this one was worth touching on. Square Knicks sold their US developers
in a number of their IPS tothe Embracer group. They sold specifically Idos
and Crystal Dynamics, both companies thathave been the whipping boy for times when

(38:00):
games didn't sell particularly well, andthey sold it for an obscenely low three
hundred million dollars. So I dowant to say that's obscene, Like,
I get it. It's when welook at the context of I keep people
saying like, oh, that's solow. I'm like, man if I
had three hundred million dollars, sure, yeah, of course, Well we'll

(38:22):
get into that in one of thequestions that I see down there too.
Yeah. Yeah, But this isthese are game These are companies with franchises
that include stuff like tomb Raider,Dayu Sax Thief, which, like Thief
and the Legacy of Kane aren't exactlyhot ips right now, sure, but
like tomb Raider, like they justannounced a new tomb Raider, right right,
and like people are always clamoring forDayu sex and also you know that

(38:45):
it also included Crystal Dynamics is hottesttitle and savior of gaming, gets right,
No, no, no, yeah, no, I just want to
point out that, like they goteleven hundred staff members, fifty back titles,
a number of IPS for three hundredmillion dollars. Yeah, PlayStation is

(39:05):
acquiring Bungee for three point six billiondollars and they have Destiny, they don't
have Halo. They've got Marathon,which no one has asked for a new
Marathon game outside of me in thelast twenty years, and me myth half
of the rock Star published one andPathways into Darkness. So I'm just saying,

(39:28):
like three point six billion for Bungeeversus two studios and a history of
games. I guess the thing I'mgoing to say, and this is going
to sound a little cynical, howmuch money and revenue has Destiny generated versus
how much money in revenue have thesestudios and they're collective IPS generated. I'm

(39:49):
gonna say probably not ten times asmuch, but maybe, but also like
getting that much IP for three hundredmillion, Oh, it's it's wild.
Yeah, Like I'm probably Microsoft didn'tlike swoop in and buy tomb Rater for
three hundred million by itself, justyeah, and just hang onto it.
So so the IP is that theyexplicitly stated in the transaction were tomb Raider,
Dave sex Thief, and Legacy ofKane. Those are two heavy hitters

(40:15):
and then two that I love,yeah, and two legacy hitters that yeah.
I think if Amy Hennig was broughtback on board, Oh she's making
a Star Wars game now, soyeah, she's making a Star Wars game
right now, Like, yeah,get that bag, Amy, Like,
but if they got her back fora Legacy of Kane game, like,
I think people would show up.Sure. I think a Legacy of Kne

(40:36):
game that isn't Osgoth a weird onlineonly multiplayer game, like if they did
a new Solar Eaver game, orif if they remade one of the Solar
Ever games, like they're gonna maketheir money back. Yeah. I was
looking through the Wikipedia pages of gamesthat were published, and so Square Nix
still retains some of the projects thatthese companies have worked on, including Life

(40:58):
Is Strange, Just Cause, andOutriders. They let go of tumb Raider,
but they held on to Outriders.Cool, I guess. But so
gex is a an ip of somevalue, some value. I don't know
how much value, but some value. Whiplash which is a beloved PS one
game, the Pandemonium games, whichare beloved PS one games. Uh,

(41:20):
the IDAs published games were the onesthat are kind of wild. They published
a lot of games, and Idon't know how much ownership they have over
those ips or anything, but likeFear Effect, like, that's that's a
really big one, I think.I mean, I think for the era.
I don't know how many people nowadaysare clinging ondoad. I bet a
new Fear Effect game would sell well, and I bet re releasing the Fear

(41:43):
Effect games would sell well. There'salso the Fighting Force series, which I
absolutely love. I don't know thatI ever played them. They were three
D Streets of Rage, Okay,in fact, I think they had some
of the folks that worked on Streetsof Rage move on to Fighting Force.
Interesting. Um, like it mighthave been a failed Dreamcast game, I'm
not sure. I mean, mostthings were failed Dreamcast games. The best

(42:04):
video games are all failed Dreamcast games. Yeah, Oh, Macron. The
Nomad Soul is a game, agame I have played project eat in time
twitters and this is just one thatcame up recently in a conversation about how
way of the Samurai won never gota rerelease because rights were held up in
a weird place. I mean,I don't think wayh the Samurai two has
gotten a rerelease either hasn't. No, but it's that was published by Capcom,

(42:29):
right, so so this one waspublished by itos. Embracer group is
like real big on rereleasing games fromtheir catalog. I could. I would
love to see a rerelease of Wayof the Samurai won on PC if I
man if I can get those firsttwo games on PC. You mean by
purchasing them from a store, notby playing them. Yeah, yes,

(42:51):
yeah, like a legitimate because iown Way of the Samurai too. Still,
like I've got a PS two Iyeah, me too, booted up
semi regular relea. Still I lovethat game. Again, ambitious jenk is
the terms I would use for it. But no, it's wild. I'm
just saying three hundred million seems likea pretty good deal for that many games.
Yeah, it's also off the backsof the guard what I what I've

(43:15):
heard is the very good Guardians ofthe Galaxy game. Yeah, that that
came out that was apparently dubbed afailure for not selling. I had heard
a story a while back that likethe way that Square Nex does their games
is that each game that sells issupposed to finance the next game, like
it's supposed to pay for itself andpay for the next game. Interesting,

(43:35):
and so every time a game wouldcome out of the West and sell pretty
well, it would still be deemeda failure because it wasn't achieving those lofty
heights. The one headline I keepseeing is based on like a line from
Square Next saying that they sold itto or sold they did this transaction to
pay for a number of different endeavors, one of which is cryptobsh And like,

(44:00):
I think that that's more of aninvestor line than an actual line of
desire. Yeah, because crypto isstill hot with investors, so saying hey,
we sold this to make a bunchof money to invest in the future
of BS. Like, I don'tthink that these Western studios got sold for

(44:21):
that reason. No, if Iwere to guess, I would say they
sold the Western development or a divisionso that way they could maybe be freed
up to be purchased for a largersum by another company. I could see
that. I'm also getting shades ofwhen Capcom shut down a lot of their
Western stuff and just really started zeroyeah, yeah, and just started really

(44:44):
zeroing back in on sort of liketheir quote core values for lack of a
better term. I could see that, but like with all the rumor in
innuendo of both those companies getting boughtout by you know, bigger entities,
I don't know. I don't wantto speculate on that because there's like this
part of me that's like, oh, it's probably nothing, but it's probably
nothing, And I hope that theystay their form of independent Like, yeah,

(45:08):
I think that's for the best.All of the mergers and acquisitions that
are going on, like is notnecessarily great for the industry. It's it's
fun for fans to some extent,but it's it's it's a weird stake because
I remember, you know, there'sthe rumor in innuendo that Square not Squaring
Sony was buying from Soft, andI was like, I don't think that's

(45:28):
gonna happen. Don't think Kawa isgoing to let go of a game that
just sold twelve million units in seventeendays, right, Like, I think
they're looking at that money and going, wow, this is pretty sick.
Actually, I we should sell moreof this, right, right, Um,
but you know, it does cometo a point where it's like if
Sony and Microsoft, and I guessalso Nintendo buy all these companies, that's

(45:51):
a bit of a bummer. Yeah. Yeah, I'm hoping that they don't
get acquired, just because outside ofBungee, all of the acquisitions have been
towards kind of pigeonholing all of thesestudios, right, Activision games moving forward,
except for some of the biggest ones, will probably all be Xbox exclusives,
which thankfully Microsoft puts their stuff onWindows because they own it, but

(46:15):
like if PlayStation buys it, thenthat means that they've put it on their
five hundred dollars Bucks, which isalmost impossible for people to buy. So
that's that's less fun for the wholeof gamers, but is great for PlayStation
owners. Yeah. So I justand also, like, you know,
when you work for a big company, you don't have the kind of freedoms

(46:37):
that you do when you're smaller.Not to say that Square Next is any
kind of small, but no,yeah, yeah, but I get what
you're saying, Like there's a certainlevel of freedom that I think those companies
would be afforded that otherwise they maynot be if like a game comes out
that's like very experimental and they andit doesn't sell well, and suddenly someone's

(47:00):
going, well, hey, don'tdo that ever again, right, because
what developers are, what the peopleat those companies are probably gonna hear is
don't experiment ever again. Just dowhat game sold sold well, which which
may not be what's being actually said. But like those interpretations. We see
those kinds of interpretations all the timein the industry. Um, this has

(47:21):
gotten really dour. Yeah, well, well we'll kick it up a notch.
But first we should probably take aquick break. Yeah, all right,
So next we've got some questions fromthe audience, which is I guess
not true, right because no one'sever listened to the show before. People

(47:44):
that we ask very kindly on theinternet. Yeah, we posted on the
internet to send us questions to theplaces where you can send questions for the
show. Yeah, what you cando by visiting level select dot cool.
You can go to our discord,or you can and emails to mail at
levels of like dot cool. Makesure that you give us the name that

(48:05):
you want read on there, orif you want to be anonymous, make
sure that you mention that you wantto take the first one. Yeah.
So our first question comes from Nick, who asks Sega has tasked you with
making a third game in their newsuper game initiative, after Crazy Taxi and
Jesse at Radio. You have beengiven one hundred million dollars in a directive
to make a Big the Cat game. What is the game about and what

(48:29):
is it called? I mean,so, Big the Cat is just a
bad fishing right, like that,like all the Big I mean in Sonic
Adventure one, Big the Cat isabout fishing. In Sonic Adventure two,
he's mostly in prison, yeah,or being crushed by a truck in the
background, right, right, Sowe have one third of Crystal Dynamics and

(48:52):
Idos's budget. Yeah we could.We could buy two thirds of one of
those companies. I think that's howthat math works. Do you want do
you want to hear? Do youwant to hear? What my ideas?
Because I've I've got an idea.I've got an idea of real quick after
reading this question. So my ideaThe game is called BIG's Day Out,
Okay, and it's just about whatBig is doing during the events of Sonic
Adventure two. Oh yeah, yeah, yes, and just like he's trying

(49:16):
to have like a very normal dayand it's just about the cascading series of
increasingly absurd events during Sonic Adventure two'sgameplay. So you only ever like,
you know, you like see thetruck from City Escape and you know,
Big gets smashed by it and heyou know, goes up. He maybe
like breaks some dudes building down.So that's why he's in prison. You

(49:37):
know. It's just like him bumblinghis way through, you know, as
the player has to has to gothrough these like puzzle challenges using big skills
as a fisherman to get him outof trouble. Probably at one point,
um, what's the fish's name,starrying not to fish, Froggy gets captured,
so he has to go and rescueFroggy. But it's just Bigg's big

(49:59):
bumbling idiot adventure. Yeah, Bigsday out. So the thing is that
it has to be part of theSupergame Initiative, which is Sega's new big
scale live service game. Right,so Colwin subtitle Sonic Adventure three. Well
no no, no, no,no, Like, let's not get that
stink on it. Let's let's makelet's make it an episodic title, because

(50:23):
those do great today. Yeah,No, that's great an episodic title,
where like each season is a newsection of the Sonic Adventure two story.
So it's something that is told overthe course of ten years, and granted
one hundred million dollars is just toget the first couple episodes done, right,
and then the Battle Pass. What'sthe team sells seventeen million copies in

(50:45):
two years? Yeah, then wecan continue it right right? Right?
No, of course? Yeah,I think I think that's perfect. Yeah,
knocked it out of the part.Next question comes from Amelia. Hey,
dude's a question from Mike in particular, now that both the remake and
Elden Ring are out, I'm guessingDemon Souls. Yeah, do you can
still consider Demon Souls your favorite slashthe one Souls game you most go back

(51:06):
to of them all? Yeah.So I've actually been grappling with this a
lot. Because grappling sounds so dramatic. No, what it is, because
it's like it's something that I cannotstate enough that part of the reason why
I'm even sat here today is becauseof Demon Souls. Because I almost stopped
playing video games before I started playingDemon Souls because I was just nothing was

(51:30):
really grabbing me anymore. And sothat game has been my favorite game for
a decade now, over a decadenow, and Elden Ring I think might
be my new favorite game. Yeah, you know, I'm not sure.
It's hard to tell right now.You got that recency bias, but at
the same time, there's a recencybias, but there's also a bias I
have towards Demon Souls because I've gotliteral thousands of hours in that game.

(51:53):
And while I chafed a bit withsome of the decisions with the remake,
the remake is still a fantastic adaptationof that game. But I think it
stands to a beer thing of like, you know what happens when a game
it was like a landmark moment inyour life or a landmark influence on your
career path gets replaced. Yeah,Like, have you ever had that experience

(52:15):
before where you've just played something You'relike, oh, oh, my favorites
different now, Like this is likesomething that I've hung my hat on.
I wish I had a good answerfor this, but like, my favorite
game has shifted so many times,there are so many more incredible games are
coming out more and more. Forthe longest time, it was Sound like

(52:36):
that Jock two, and then itwas Shadow of the Cossis, which quickly
got usurped by Halo three. Like, and all of these games are still
some of the best video games evermade. I think, oh yeah,
all of them with their flaws,especially with time with hindsight like, they're
they're all still fantastic. But I'venever had a game that was important as

(52:58):
important to me, I think asDemon Souls was to you. Yeah,
I was gonna ask do you doyou feel more fondly or less fondly due
to the remake of Demon Souls,So I struggled with some of the purely
visual changes made with the Demon Soulsremake. I can relate to that with
the Shadow though Quassis remake right like, which is definitely a better version of

(53:22):
that game, But it doesn't looklike I wanted to right right, you
know, I was one of thosesuper huge weirdos that was like, oh,
yeah, just take Demon Souls fromtwenty ten upscaled, you know,
like I would have been fine withthe low poly stuff and just upscaled the
tech, you know, like theycould have done that. And I'm like,
yeah, this is a great PSfive game, which I understand is

(53:44):
insane. Probably wouldn't sell PS fiveNo, I mean it would sell a
couple. It would have sold thePS five to me and one hundred other
people, and there would have bewarehouse is full of them. But no
it. I still look very fondlyon Demon Souls, the original, the
even the remake, but elden Ringcaptures for me that same feeling that I

(54:07):
got playing Demon Souls, the soaringjoys, the frustrations, the me complaining
that this is designed bad, andthen on my second playthrough, I'm like,
no, I'm just I just suckedand needed to pay attention and like
engage with the game on its ownterms. Yeah. So it's like Demon
Souls. I think it's going tobe a game that it always bears a

(54:29):
special place for me. Same thingwith like Balder's Gate two, Devil McCray
three, which I mentioned earlier,and you know, and a bevy of
other games like Demon Souls is thenext in that line. I just think
elden Ring for me was like,for me, it is my like platonic
ideal of a video right like this, I guess that is my platonic ideal

(54:51):
of what a video game should be. So yeah, I don't think it's
it's going to ever really be supplantedin that regard, But I don't know
that I'm going to go back toit as often as I do now,
because now I've got a little yackhorse I can ride named Torrent. Yeah,
sentimentality on our podcast, expect alot of that, but yeah.

(55:13):
Our next question comes from Mark Lentzof Chew High Labs, and he writes
a long time listener, first timequestioner, if you could make any game
that has already been made but totallytake the credit for having made it,
what would it be? Why wouldit be? Duke Newcombe three D correct
answers only, So, I mean, so it's gotta be Duke nwkeam three

(55:36):
D. Right, it's gotta bedig nukehumb three D by a definition,
But like I wouldn't say that that'snecessarily the wrong answer for me anyways,
Like it a very like yeah,yeah, yeah, not yeah, No,
I mean liked nukecamb three D holdsthis like I hate that. I
hate answering this. It holds thisreally special place in my heart because it

(55:58):
was kind of where I got mystart in game development, because I used
to make mods and maps for forDuke knucom three D Atomic Edition in the
buildage. Oh my god, likeit like that game doesn't hold up,
And I don't want that to bemy answer, but I am bound by

(56:20):
the contract of the question asker.So yeah, yeah, no, I
would love to take credit for makingmost of Duke knucom same, especially because
like, and this is a weirdsegue, but we're in this like weird
revival of people making like games inold engines. Yeah, you know,
like you see people making games inuh, like doom engine. You know,

(56:43):
like in like the old Doom engines. You see people using like the
you know, build engine to makestuff. So it's like, yeah,
Duke knew like on Ironically, man, I this is not my story to
tell, but I would love tohave Nigel Lowry, the head of Devolver
Digital, on sometimes so he couldtell the world what he told me about
his idea for a Duke Nuke originstory, like a full fledged video game

(57:07):
that he wanted to make. Heckyeah, yeah, no always bet On
Duke Crash Cars writes in Hey guys, love to hear you on a podcast
again. Have you been wanting toreturn a podcast for a long time or
did you like having a bit ofdistance and working on your own endeavors in
the meantime. I missed it.I enjoyed doing podcast, missed the hell
out of Yeah, I enjoyed dwingpodcasts with you. I'm still working on

(57:30):
my own endeavors. Like, Idon't think either of us are the kind
of people that do well. Wassitting around doing nothing for extended periods of
time. Yeah, I've been wantingto do this for a long time.
Like, we still have our showthat we want to do with Levi someday.
But like the reason that that fellapart was that, like three adults
with very different jobs rarely have timethat lines up. Yeah, thankfully,

(57:54):
like this one with the two ofus, we can. I mean,
this is the first episode we'll see, but it seems like, yeah,
it's like we've got a plan anda schedule that works for it. That
said, like last year I hadthree jobs that took up all of my
time. This year I have won, so now I can do a podcast

(58:15):
for fun. This is for fun, as it should be. It's great
to be back. One thing isthat I have been working on games for
some years now, and all ofthose games are something that I work every
day on for many, many hours, and then I don't get to talk
about them at all until they're out. And then when they come out,

(58:39):
I get to be very excited aboutit, and I will continue telling everybody,
Hey, here's this cool thing Iworked on, but people will only
care for a very short period oftime after it comes out. Like being
able to make something that I getto shove in people's face every week is
a very exciting forward facing opportunity forme, and that's what this podcast is.

(59:00):
It's also again I mentioned Dopamine hitsearlier. Yeah, there's something real
nice about being like, oh,it's done, it's out, it's done,
it's at It only took us acouple hours. Go check it out.
Now I can turn around and stareat the thing I've been working on
for the past like year and ahalf that I'm like halfway done with and
go straight back to work. Yeah. Yeah, or like the stuff I'm

(59:22):
working on for my day job,which is like stuff I can't really talk
about all them much. Yeah,Because as the nature of video games go,
non disclosure agreements are everywhere yep,so yep, yep, yep.
But yeah, it is just sogood to have something that I can't talk

(59:43):
about. And so now when I'mtalking to people for the first time,
I'm like, oh, yeah,I do. I'm I'm a game developer.
I work on Delta, and Ican't talk about that. But what
I can talk about is my podcast, Like, yeah, I get to
be that asshole at everybody now andfor for me. Now, when people
ask us like, oh, soyou're working games, I'm like, yeah,
then you go, what do youdo? I can just go,
oh, I podcast because it's weightlike, which is not not at all

(01:00:06):
my job. But it's like,you know, when you've got a very
winding road through video games like I'vehad, it's like, okay, so
I did this and then I didthat, and now I'm doing this.
But on the side, you know, yeah, yeah, everyone's journey is
different and that's kind of what we'rehere to talk about, and I'm excited
to talk about it with folks.And and speaking of journeys, I believe
this is the end for this episodeof Level Select, a podcast about the

(01:00:30):
game journey that sucks. So normallyI would have a thing written up crap.
Yeah, I was looking at thepart that Yeah, no, okay,
So here are the bullet points.Level select dot cool is where you
can find everything about the game orthe game damn it, damn it.

(01:00:50):
That is where you can find everythingabout the podcast, as well as links
to everything that we do and waysto get in touch with us. We
have a discord which is still verymuch under construction, but like, come
hang out, talk to us aboutthe things you're passionate about. And if
you know somebody in the industry whohas a cool story to tell, let

(01:01:12):
us know. Like, there's somany stories worth telling. And if you
find us on Apple Podcasts or anythingthat takes reviews, leave a review if
you want. Only if it's nice, though, if it's not, maybe,
Yeah, I think that's it.Thanks to Toby Fox for composing the
the intro a Natra for our podcast, which is wild. Yeah, thank

(01:01:34):
you so much. Yeah, well, we'll try to find a way to
put that up in its entirety sometimefor you. Yeah, I guess that's
gonna do it. We've been oh, we've just been so bad at sign
offs in the past, and wedon't have one today. How do you
do this, you wait three daysand then you call them back. I
don't know what that means, becausewe're like, you know, this is

(01:01:55):
like a it's like a first datewith this podcast. Oh right, yeah,
um, don't you know. Fillthe vibes. Have a good day.
Drink some water, drink some water, get some sleep, Tell somebody
you love them. Hey, Ilove you, I love you. I
was talking to the listener, butI love you too, Mike. Oh.
Let's let's try this again next weekand maybe we'll have something to talk

(01:02:16):
talk about at the end. Iguarantee we won't. But see you next
to you, guys. Bye.Welcome to Level Select, a show about

(01:02:40):
games and game development. I'm yourhost, fred Wood, and I'm your
kind that one up. No,I just can't. No, it has
to be. You're about to beboth of us. I was about to
be both of us, and I'msorry. Yes. Welcome to the Level
Selects. Welcome to level, Welcometo Oh my god, stop, welcome

(01:03:00):
to level Oh my god, No, no, you got Welcome to Level
Select to show about games and gamesdevelopment. I'm your host, Mike Devir.
No, I'm doing it. Ohmy god. I just gave you
the perfect take I know, okay,