June 9, 2025 • 45 mins
Deborah Rudell's remarkable journey from spiritual betrayal to profound healing captivates in this powerful episode. After experiencing the shocking revelation of her spiritual teacher's public deception at the Rajneesh Param community, Deborah embarked on a transformative path that led her to Kauai's healing shores.
Through the meditative process of rebuilding an old boat – sanding, varnishing, and connecting with the ocean – she discovered a tangible path to healing. Her story weaves through the challenges of single motherhood, two divorces, and the complex dynamics of community living, all while emphasizing the vital role of perspective in navigating life's upheavals.
Now sharing her experiences through her memoir "Grit and Grace," Deborah's journey illuminates the delicate balance between spiritual growth and practical wisdom. Her transformation speaks to the power of resilience, authenticity, and the courage to rebuild one's life after disillusionment.
Join us for this inspiring conversation about finding freedom, healing, and purpose through life's most challenging moments. Listen now to discover how one woman's journey from spiritual crisis to self-discovery can illuminate your own path forward.
Through the meditative process of rebuilding an old boat – sanding, varnishing, and connecting with the ocean – she discovered a tangible path to healing. Her story weaves through the challenges of single motherhood, two divorces, and the complex dynamics of community living, all while emphasizing the vital role of perspective in navigating life's upheavals.
Now sharing her experiences through her memoir "Grit and Grace," Deborah's journey illuminates the delicate balance between spiritual growth and practical wisdom. Her transformation speaks to the power of resilience, authenticity, and the courage to rebuild one's life after disillusionment.
Join us for this inspiring conversation about finding freedom, healing, and purpose through life's most challenging moments. Listen now to discover how one woman's journey from spiritual crisis to self-discovery can illuminate your own path forward.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What do you do when the foundations of your world
crumble beneath you and your standing amidst the ruins of
your dreams? How do you find the strength to rebuild, redefine,
and claim your life Today? On life Jack The Resilience Podcast,
I have the extraordinary Debrah Riddell, whose life story is
(00:23):
a testament to the human spirit incredible capacity for resilience
and reinvention. From navigating the challenges of being a single
mother and enduring two divorces to experiencing profound spiritual disillusionment,
Debrah has faced life upheavals with grace and grips her
(00:44):
journey from a small town in British Columbia to becoming
a university professor and the author of her memoir, Grit
and Grace, The Transformation of a Ship and a Soul.
It's filled with lessons on resilience, creativity, and finding one's past.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
In the world.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Join us as we dive into her remarkable story and
discover the wisdom she has gathered along the way.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Sometimes life gives us lemons, Sometimes it gives us lemonade.
Other Times it gives us something entirely out of left
field that makes us say w t F But no
matter what obstacles come, there is most often a way
out on the other side, and we are once again victorious.
(01:37):
My name is doctor Rome and you are listening to
my podcast about resilience. Every guest shares a tragedy to
triumph story to give listeners like you the inspiration to
push through every single day. Listen now as my next
guest shares how they were life check.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Hi Deborah, welcome, Thank you so much for being a
guest on my show.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
How are you?
Speaker 4 (02:05):
I am excited and thank you doctor Rowe for having
me on your program. Yes, it's most certainly a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Now Deborah to taking us back to your early years
in British Columbia and kind of share the upbreak like
you're share a little bit about about your upbringing that
helped to shape your perspective on resilience.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Yes, well, I was the oldest of four, which happened
a lot in the fifties and sixties, and being the
eldest of four with really close siblings, I ended up
having to grow up really fast and help my mom
with the little ones. And part of that was that
when things went on in my life, I had to
(02:47):
figure it out myself, So that was a pretty big
shaping factor. Another factor was that I had a grandmother
who started talking to me when I was seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven,
twelve well about reincarnation, about karma, about my soul, about energy.
So this was a pretty formative thing to happen early on.
(03:10):
And these gave this gave me tools to look at
life from for the rest of my life, like a
perspective of groundwork that was unique.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yes, So do you think that the way that you
look at resilience initially in your childhood has it evolved
at all now as an adult?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
I hope so. On one level it's the same.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
I'm still I'm still looking at the big picture and
finding ways to go inside and ways to navigate what's
happening to me in my life as a lesson and
to learn from. And I think as time's gone by,
I'm why I don't get thrown off whack so much.
(04:03):
I think that it's a little there's a little more
grace around. Oh, this is life. This is a bump
in the road, rather than you know, the end of
the world.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
I think that is through to everyone.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
As we get older, we start recognizing certain events in
our lives, we're able to handle them a little bit better,
whether it's events in our.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Lives or people.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
It just seems like as you get older, you just
don't worry about things as much.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
Yeah, thank goodness, right, most definitely when people say they
wish they were twenty again, I'm really not in that camp.
I really enjoy having a little more perspective and wisdom
to navigate through these rough times.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
I can attest to that as well, for sure.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Now you fay significant life changes such as becoming a
single mom at a young age. Of course, children are
a blessing no matter when they come into our lives
and when they come into the world. However, when you're younger,
especially when you don't plan to be a mother, or
you're not exactly financially ready or equipped to be a parent,
(05:15):
it can be kind of difficult and it almost feels
like that is a life jacked moment. Although, like I said,
children are a blessing, but it can feel very much like,
oh my gosh, what I'm going to do now?
Speaker 4 (05:25):
Right?
Speaker 1 (05:26):
So absolutely absolutely so. How did you kind of strength
to navigate this early on? I mean, did you have
a support system or was it just that you know what,
you got pregnant, you're out on your own.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
I had baby Daddy was with me till for about
seven months after he was born, so I had a
little bit of time where I wasn't on my own,
but then I was on my own, and it was
kind of a shock in some ways. But on another way,
I had, you know, kind of talked to myself to
(06:00):
build up my confidence of what I would have to do.
But I didn't realize was how much it costs to
do everything. So I did end up going into you know,
a welfare office to get some support, and it was
so humiliating and so horrible that I just determined right
(06:21):
there I would never go in that place again ever, ever, ever,
and I would get it together.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Like you know, it's interesting that as human beings, essentially
that is our job. I mean, that's why we find
a partner, right, We find a partner to mate to
populate the earth, right And so yes, yes, no matter
how you know life, you create life, whether planned or
on planned. But it's interesting that if you don't have
(06:48):
the money and you do have to go apply for assistance,
why is it that they make you feel dirty? Like
I don't, I mean, I haven't had that experience personally,
but I've heard that from many people that when they
have to go want to go and apply for assistance,
they just make you feel so ashamed when I mean,
if humans is natural, we're supposed to populate the earth
(07:08):
and be as they say, be fruitful and multiply. But
then sometimes it doesn't all fall in the place exactly
how you want it to.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
No, it it really doesn't. And it really was quite
a shock to me because when I went in that
welfare office there was a bunch of like young guys
in there, which is weird, but and yet and there
I was with this baby and somehow, you know, it
(07:38):
wasn't okay, So it was. It was quite a it
was quite a turning point in my life to really,
you know, get that picture that Okay, you're not coming
back in this room, no way.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Yeah, most definitely.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Now you are a member of the rashniche Karam religious
community in Oregon, which has been described as a true
utopian community. I mean it was the idealistic, you know,
type of youth like I said, utopian community that everyone wants,
(08:12):
wanted would want to be in. Of course, it's no
longer around but how did you become a member of
this community?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
And when you.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
Found a community, what was the initial experience like for you?
Thank you for describing it as a true utopian community.
That's really wonderful because a lot of times people start
that up pretty controversially. But I really appreciate that you
called it that because it really was. And to answer
your question, I became a member because we were Sonyasums.
(08:43):
We'd already taken Sonya with a Guan, which means that
you were a disciple, and you wore a mala and
you wore red clothes. And when Guan left India to
come to America, he started this branch in Oregon, and
the ranch people called my husband and asked him if
(09:05):
he would come down and be their dentist. And my
husband replied, yes, but only if Debbie can come too,
So yes, they said I could come. So that's how
I ended up there. And then the initial experience was really,
really difficult. I can't lie about that, and I do
(09:25):
write about it in my story. When you grow up
in our culture, there are certain things that are just normal.
You just grow up with habitual ways to respond to things,
habitual ways to live, to do things, and when you
shake that up, it's quite a shock. Now I can
(09:46):
give a little story here. There's a story somebody tells
about fish in the ocean, and one fish swims by
two other fish and asks them how's the water, And
the two other fish say, what's water? So that's what
I mean by having you know. We're in this world
(10:07):
and we grow up with a nuclear family, and we
live in a house, and we grow grocery shopping and
we drive around in cars. These things are all normal.
You get into a community like I went into, and
all of a sudden it's set up like a kibbutz.
The men live in one place, the women live in
another place, the kids live in another place, and you
(10:29):
just do your job. You don't cook, clean, drive, get gas,
get groceries, none of that other people do all that.
All you do is your job. Who was quite a
shock at first.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
So shortly after you were there, however, you experienced what
somewhat call a spiritual disillusionment while there, So first of all,
could you kind of explain to the listeners who may
not know what exactly is this spiritual disillusionment?
Speaker 4 (11:03):
Okay? So, and before I answer that, I'm just going
to say that I was fully immersed and fully participating
and happy to be there for four years. The disillusionment
didn't happen until Beguan left. So that's when the disillusionment happened.
(11:25):
Now disillusionment, I'll give you an example. Beguan called a
press conference the end and all these people came, like
there was thousands and thousands of people and pressed from
all over the world, and he was speaking about why
Sheila had left. Now, Sheila was his secretary and the
(11:46):
head of the branch, and when he was speaking, he
wasn't telling the truth. And I happened to know that
because I worked in Shila's house, so I knew kind
of what went on in her house and what but
Guan was saying didn't match. Now, the spiritual disillusionment comes in.
(12:06):
When I was thinking of this person as this really
ideal person who always says the truth has our highest
spiritual good in his heart and in his mind is
only about the light and the love, Like that's the
idea I have in my head. And to hear someone
who was my teacher a lie in front of all
(12:29):
those people was purely like it was such a shock,
and I went to stand up, and I have to
say this, but I went to stand up. And because
it was such a controversial situation, there was really high security.
So we had the Peace Force, which was the city's
(12:50):
police force. We called them the Peace Force. They were
armed with uzy around the outside of the whole perimeter
of this big meeting hall. And I knew that they
were there because a lot of the local people were
there and wanting to be violent towards Boguan. They really
didn't like us red people. And I had to look
(13:14):
around and my friends were pulling on my arm. Don't
stand up, don't stand up, because if there was any
kind of disturbance in the crowd, then there was a
chance for violence because the tensions were so high. So
in that moment, I didn't stand up, even though I
knew he lied, So I had a double whammy. I
was really disturbed that my teacher and the person I
(13:36):
looked up to had lied, and I was really freaked
out about myself, who I thought was a person with
a lot of integrity, and I did not stand up.
I stay silent. Part of the reason for writing this
book I'm going to segue into another section here, was
because it is my I'm wanting to speak up to talk.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
A while, and we'll get to your memoir a little
bit later in a conversation. So how did you begin
to rebuild your inner framework? Because, of course, when you
had the inclination to stand up, because you were like,
this is not right, that's not true, and so you
kind of had an inner conflict like a betrayal almost right,
(14:22):
because you're someone who is spreading untruth and within the
community that you, at one point in time.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Felt very safe to be in.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
So how did you get to rebuild your inner framework?
Because anytime we experience a moment of distrust or betrayal,
something in us gets broken, right, there's a link broken somewhere,
and sometimes it can be developing trust with other people,
and so you have to kind of work on yourself
(14:53):
right to be able to trust again or build intimate
relationships with a person again.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
So what did you do to restrain?
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Yeah, what did you do to build rebuild your inner framework?
Speaker 4 (15:07):
Yes? And I have to say that, well, I knew
he lied, and I didn't know what was going on.
It took a long time, and it took quite a
bit of space, like several years to really understand what
had happened to me. And during that time, the one
(15:28):
thing that I was doing was when anybody mentioned God
or spirituality, I had to tell myself, no, that was
a failed experiment. So for several years, I every time
I wanted to find paulas in, oh there's a bigger picture,
or God will take care of that, or oh, you know,
(15:49):
my faith, anytime I wanted to go to do that,
I stopped myself and reminded myself that I had tried,
that I'd given up everything for it, and its failed.
And I did that for several years, and it was
really hard. And then yeah, and the other thing about
(16:11):
those two years was it took a couple of years
to reintegrate into society. We've been living with the goal
for all of humanity and for peace on the whole
of the earth, and how to grow our own food
and live together without money and greed and climbing on
(16:32):
each other to get ahead, and living in a different way,
living together, cooperatively, helping each other, building something that we
could all blossom together with and in. And when we
came out all of a sudden, there was just you know,
my husband and me and our kids, and it was
(16:53):
like so narrow and shortsighted, like how do you start
living just for my what do I want? Like? It
was really hard to make that switch. So those are
the first two things I had to do for a
few years before I could actually start growing and healing. No,
I understand that.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
And so in part of that healing, you decided to
move to Kawaii in Hawaii and you began rebuilding an
old boat, which sounds like a transformative experience. I mean,
of course you're transforming a boat in any time that
(17:36):
it seems like anytime we want to go through a
sort of transformation around our lives, it's almost like we
also transformed something else around us. For you and your instance,
it's an old boat. So how did this time contribute
to your healing and growth?
Speaker 4 (17:54):
It was, It was amazing. And again in hindsight, I
didn't know at the time. It's just over the four
years that we were working on that project. And first
of all, I want to just mention that Kawaii, historically,
and I mean ancient history, is known as the Healing Island.
That people did not live on Kawaii. That was the
(18:16):
island where the shaman's and the kings and queens went
for their healing and sacred ceremony. So I didn't know
that at the time, but I've learned that since. So
we moved there and here we were building this boat.
Now there's a few things about building a boat. You're right,
it's transformative inside and out. That's true that it takes
(18:40):
really a lot of time. There's a lot of standing,
a lot of varnishing, a lot of painting, and each
thing takes a long time. For example, one mask is
sixty five feet long. It took me five days, Like
these are full days. These are eight hour days standing
to finish one mast, just standing. So that's a very repetitive,
(19:04):
monotonous job. Then you've got your ear Yeah, you've got
your ear plugs in, you know, because you know ear muss.
We didn't have headphones back then so much. So I
had ear protection because I was using, you know, an
orbital slander and there was a big generator and all,
(19:24):
so I had ear protection. And you just are in
this zone. And I think in that zone that was
almost like a helpful meditative space to help my mind
start unraveling this yarn of my life that had become
quite tangled and involved and start looking at where I'd been,
(19:47):
why I had been there, what had I done there?
Was it worth it? Was it really true? Was I
really misguided? And was I really like? So I called
myself like stupid or something that I didn't know right
from wrong, and I couldn't tell a charlatan from a truth,
(20:08):
you know, a man of truth. Like. There was those
kind of questions, deep questions, and I had a lot
of time to just and space to give myself to
think about it without getting up tight, you know how
you get into tough questions and you get tight. When
I was standing and varnishing, I would hit a tight
spot and you just varnishing and it would come up
(20:28):
again and I could go a little deeper. So that
was how building the boat really really helped. And I
think another aspect of this is that being on a
spiritual path, we're in the energetic world a lot kind
of in those days pretty airy fairy. Do you know
that expression? No? No, you know when people are they're
(20:51):
not real grounded, they're kind of flighty and just off
in la la land, being all spiritual love bunny. So
I think through but there was an element of working
on the boat where I had to get really grounded.
I had to be on the ground. What I could touch,
what I could feel, what was real, hard solid Newtonian physics,
(21:13):
if you want to go that way, you know, like
the material world for real. And I think working on
the project also really brought me down into this material
world a lot more.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Now you it seems like that nature plays a crucial
role in your life's journey, from being an organ in
the rush Niche Piram community, which organ is a beautiful
state full of beautiful landscapes, and then moving.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
To Kawaii, which is a healing island. In that island,
nature is very.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Healing, and so it seems like that the natural world
is very nurturing to you. Do you think that is
the case and what does the natural world really do
for you?
Speaker 4 (22:05):
Absolutely? I mean I'd come from British Columbia in the
middle of the winter, so I ended up in Kawaii
in a boatyard where it's tropical, and we lived on
the water, and we were working on the water and
you're standing and varnishing and the trade winds are blowing through,
so you're never super hot. Even though it's sunny and warm.
(22:27):
The trade winds are always blowing, and at the end
of every day, my son and I would leave the
boatyard a bit before my husband and we'd go back
to where we lived, which was you know, I just
have to tell you where we lived, because it's now
the Marriat in Kawaii, in Lahui, but it was the
(22:48):
Western Kawaii, you know, the leech, rich and famous. It
was this incredibly richy resort, and there were these condos
that were out on the cliffs that were grandfathered into
the resort property. So these little condos had been out
(23:09):
there for you know, since the forties, and we happened
to know one of the owners who lived in Vancouver,
and so we were renting out there on the cliffs
out there in this incredibly luxurious place. So it was
really wonderful where we lived. But we come home from
work from the boatyard and all this saught us, and
(23:31):
the noise, and my son and I would go and
swim and across the bay and just wash all the
sought us off of us and swim in the sea
and see sea turtles. And yes we saw sharks that
they were hammerhead sharks that couldn't bite us, you know,
but so we were it was. It was quite lovely.
(23:52):
It was really lovely life.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Wow, let's get to your memoirs. Grit and great, the
trans formation of a ship and a sole and sad.
This memory chronicles your life experiences.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
So what was the inspiration for you to.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Decide I want to bear it all and I want
to share it in a memoir to the world. Because
that's incredibly that's a lot of courage, it's incredibly brave.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
Yes, And you know I didn't when I when I
started writing, it wasn't like I'm going to tell all
and bear it to the world. It really wasn't like that.
It was more like I had this inter naggling, like
you need to write your story down, and I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah,
you know sometime yeah yeah. And then one day it
was gully. It was ten years after we did the crossing.
(24:45):
I ran into a guy on the beach in my
hometown and he heard about the boat and the project
and he asked me questions. And when I was answering,
he said, you need to write this down. And I
said yes sometimes and he goes, no, no, no, you
need to write this and I said, well, I don't
really know where to start. He said, start anywhere, doesn't
(25:08):
matter where, start anywhere, Start tonight. So I made him
a promise I would start. So that night I went
home and I wrote the very first beginning of the book,
which is called the Gale, and I wrote that down
and that was the start. And then I just started writing.
And it took a long time, and I ended up,
(25:30):
you know, joining our writing group and all of that.
And as that went on, then I saw I had
a story. Like it wasn't just about building a boat.
It was about the branch. It was about what happened
with Bouguaan. It was about being in Shila's health and
knowing that my teacher had lied to me. And it
was about the things I had to face to reintegrate
(25:52):
into the world in a very real way and become grounded.
I hadn't started writing knowing that promise.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
You, So okay, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
Well, as far as what I hope readers will take
away from my story, first and foremost, that about freedom.
Freedom is the most important thing to me. And I
don't just mean freedom to you know, run around down
the world and do what you like. I mean freedom
on the inside. So no matter what is happening. You
(26:31):
have a sense of yourself and you can respond authentically
to the world and the people around you. To me,
that's freedom. Part of that is, you know, learning when
you're when you're stuck, or when you're blaming someone instead
of taking responsibility. For example in the rant, but Guan
is blaming Sheila, and then all of a sudden, yes,
(26:52):
blame Sheila even today, and a lot of them, not
all of them, but a lot of them. And to
me that it's really sad because they had an opportunity
for their freedom, and instead of looking at their own
involvement at the ranch and with the spiritual master, they
have this sort of little out, Oh, I can just
blame so and so, And that's really sad. That's the illusion,
(27:17):
that's the darkness. If you want freedom, you have to
find your place in it. No scapegoats, no blaming, even
if it looks perfectly reasonable. So I really hope that
people can see that. And if people are involved in
a spiritual group and have sort of a story about it,
(27:37):
like a blaming thing, that is a prap And I
pray and hope and that's my dream that people can
can find their way around and through that into true
freedom and accept those challenges of having a scapegoat as
a tool that teaches them even more about freedom and
(28:00):
they can get even more of their own connection to
the divine.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yes, I understand that. And freedom is an important right.
People don't understand that.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Freedom.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
You know, it is the power or the right to speak,
to act, to change even as you want, without any
hindrance or restraints.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Right, you can believe what you want, right, feel what you.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Want, You can do what you want, you can say
what you want within reason. Because we know certain people
of our nation and our of our world like to
just say random.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Things and just say anything. And it's like, well, well
don't say.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
That, because that can just cause lots of chaos and confusions.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
But that's that's discernment. That's discernment, and we have to
learn that too.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
But you really can't put a price on freedom, can you,
you know, I mean, freedom is the ultimate existence at
least I believe something.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
Yeah, And there's and there's so many levels of it,
and we're dealing with all the levels right now in
our world. Like you know, the freedom we you know,
even in our cultures, people don't even have freedom to
get a job that they want or not or work
at this or that. If you're a man or a woman,
or if you're this color or that color. There's all
(29:21):
kinds of external physical things that don't allow freedom. And
at the same time, on another level, there's also the
inner freedom, which I think by going for the inner freedom,
you can do the alchemy to handle whatever is going
on on the outside with freedom. Does that make.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Sense for sure? Now?
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Of course, you know earlier we talked about the loss
of a community, right that the betrayal, you know, recognizing
that someone that you trusted is sharing untruthed and and
you've left the community, and even leaving that community, it
is a loss, right, it is a loss of a
(30:06):
support system that you had for several years. So and
I know that support systems are very important, especially with
being resilient and going through life, especially when you're experiencing
life jacked moments. So how did you find or did
you have to create a new support network once you
(30:28):
left the ranch?
Speaker 4 (30:30):
Yes, yes, I did have to create a new support network.
And I'll just say right out of the get go
that there is something that happens for thousands of people
and at its peak Regini's firm had ten thousand people,
now ten thousand people with a shared goal and a
(30:51):
shared you know, way of living and wanting to give
back to the world as shared commitment to cooperation. That
creates an energy field that's like a huge, powerful bubble.
And in my world we call that the Buddha field.
(31:11):
And when I left the ranch, I had to learn
to live without that Buddha field and I still am
living without that. I have never found anything that has
recreated that, and there is sadness with that. That's a
loss and a morning. And at the same time, to
(31:32):
go back into community, we all have our shadows still,
so there's still going to be things that happen in
struggles for power, struggles for prestige, struggles to be better
than the other person, to climb on other people. We
all have those shadow sides. And until people do do
their homework, and you know this from your job, you know,
(31:54):
people have to look inside and found those shadow sides.
And until we do that, living together in a utopian
community will will well, It'll have moments of great light
and the shadows side will will be exposed because the
light exposes the dark. That's the way it works here.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
So yes, the dark it truly does.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
It truly does.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (32:22):
Yeah, So I don't really have for a support group.
What I'd have to say is we'll build a group
of friends, building the boat we had, our group of
friends we had. I still have close girlfriends that I
speak with. When things get tough, I call them up
and have a heart to heart and we have a
promise to each other to be brutally honest. If I'm
(32:45):
in my stuff and I'm blaming someone or I'm not
taking responsibility, my friends will call me on it and
I will call them on it because we have that
commitment to our freedom, and that's really important. And the
resilience things would be having a spiritual practice like my meditation,
(33:06):
listening to people who speak the truths that are inspiring,
like your podcast for example. You know you are encouraging
people that have a lot of light to speak out.
That's important. That's vitamins for my soul, it really is.
And yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Want to speak to that light and dark. When you
said that light.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Pushes out darkness, because what people don't understand that is
so true because if you have light, right, lots of light,
but if you have just a little bit of darkness.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
There's still lights. A little bit of darkness does not
snuff out light, right. But no, if you have darkness
and you have just a little bit of light, then
the light takes over the darkness immediately. Just so even
as a.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Tiny tiny bit of light takes over the darkness, I
mean that it can light a whole room.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
Yeah, it can light a whole room.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Yes, just a little bit, right, just a little bit
of light, just a little bit of light.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
But if you have a darkness in a certain area,
it doesn't take away the light.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
It doesn't.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
That's phenomenal, great reminder, wonderful.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
They Now you are someone who has worked in both
health care and education, which are both fields that are
very service oriented, and they it offers a lot of
difficult times for people, right, because sometimes the intention doesn't
always match the outcome, especially in health care and education,
and there's a lot of issues as far as funding,
(34:52):
and you know, how to pay for health care, how
to pay for things in education, and so how being
involved in these two professions, do you think that they
that they influence your understanding of resilience.
Speaker 4 (35:08):
I do absolutely, and I think it's been wonderful to
be able to participate in both of those professions. First
of all, they're both giving back to people, which is
important to me. I worked as an accountant to get
through school, and I have to tell you it's really
nice when all the numbers line up and everything, but
(35:28):
it's so dry when you're not dealing with people.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Yeah, yeah, I really mean to they don't interact with you.
Speaker 4 (35:38):
No, no, and they help me pay my bills. But
I really there's something so wonderful to have interaction with people.
And I can your question. There's two parts to this
because being a professional in both of those professions, it
affects me personally, but also professionally watching my students or
(36:02):
watching my patients. I've learned by all the different ways
that they respond to to their you know, life jack
and me having to be with them at those times.
So there's two ways to answer your question. And I
(36:22):
have to say that personally, it really gave me impetus always.
It gives me impetus to keep doing my homework, to
keep learning, to keep my mind open, to not judge
because there's so much going on under the surface when
you're interacting with people, whether as a dental hygdentist or
as a professor at the college. You know, people have
(36:46):
so much going on, especially now, and you could be
seeing something simple like flash your peep more and they'll
look out. But it's not necessarily because of what you said.
It's because of all the things in life. And if
I'm not sensitive to that, it's just a judgment, right, Like, yeah, yeah,
(37:08):
And if I'm not sensitive to that, then I'm not
being a very caring healthcare worker, you know, I'm not
being empathetic, I'm not being available, and then whatever healing
needs to happen gets, you know, curtailed quite a bit.
And same with education. If I'm in my story about
(37:30):
what's happened to me that day, and a student is
in their story but what happened to them, it's pretty
hard to get any learning across, right. Yeah. So it's
a really good encouragement. I'm so grateful because it's kept
me my whole life really on the path to making
(37:53):
sure that I'm paying attention inside and I'm doing my
own work and being more available for what needs to
happen in my responses to others.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Now, Debra, I can't even believe that we've come to
the end of this conversation because it's just been such
a pleasure to speak with you and for you to
share your story on the show. But I have to
ask you, as I asked all of my guests about,
you know, building resilience, and what advice would you give
to someone who is currently facing a significant life challenge
(38:27):
and they're seeking.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
To build resilience.
Speaker 4 (38:33):
No, this is this is such a good question. And
when I look inside, when I was really in my
dark nights of the soul and I was really really tough,
advice doesn't work. I you know, words, It's like people
tell you things and you're just like you can't hear.
You're so covered over and looking for you know, a
(38:57):
way through, and it just looks like dead end and
everything's dark. And in those moments, I would hope that
you can people can find a friend or something that
someone that can just sit with them. So in my
working with people too, it's like it's better sometimes if
(39:20):
I don't talk, if I don't give advice, if I'm
just able to be there with them and understand that
sometimes words and any kind of ideas about what someone
should do or shouldn't do or is just not going
to work, and what people really need is so much
love and acceptance in those moments for them to help
(39:41):
get through to the next step. So having said that,
I will also say that when you're in a really
dark place, and this helped me a lot, was it'll change.
I just had to tell myself it'll eventually change to
be like this forever, even though it feels like forever.
So I would tell myself that, and then when you're
(40:04):
in a little bit of a better space. For me,
it's always remembering a really big picture that you know,
our life is huge, and our universe is huge, and
the lifetime that we're in now is like a blink
of an eye. And I think that's written in fully
books all over the place. And yet even though it's
(40:27):
a blink of an eye, our time here is important
and special. Like you know about a hologram. If you
take a postcard, that's a hologram. If you take one
little like flipping off it like a millimeter by a millimeter,
and you look at that hologram, it has the whole
postcard in that little tiny bit that you tore off
(40:47):
the corner. So I think that we're like that in
this world. We were we're small and the world is
huge and life is huge, but we're significant and some
how remembering that helps me to not take myself and
seriously sometimes to just go, Okay, this is one of
(41:08):
those bumps in the road, you know, like hang in
there and let's see what unfold, Let's see what's next,
and remember that you're loved, You are loved, you are
so loved.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Thank you Deborah for sharing your inspiring journey with me
and the listeners today, Like Jack the Resilience Podcast, I mean,
your story is a powerful reminder that even in the
face of profound change and disillusionment, we can find the
strength to rebuild and reimagine our lives. I mean your
insights on creativity, nature and spiritual discernment, because you brought
(41:45):
that up when you were talking about freedom and you know,
recognizing that you must have discernment even within that freedom.
I mean it offer it offers valuable guidance for anyone
seeking resilience in their own journeys. So how can listeners
find and connect with you or purchase your memoir Grit
and Great The Transformation of a Ship and a Soul.
Speaker 4 (42:10):
Yes, I have a website. It's Deborah Ruddell dot com
and it's also going to be available on Amazon and
the usual book places, and it's being released on the
twenty seventh of February. However, my book launch is on
the twenty third of February at Tomino Books in delmar
(42:30):
So everyone's invited.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
He has any last words living for listeners.
Speaker 4 (42:38):
I do have a story. It's not a long story.
Do I have time for that?
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Absolutely?
Speaker 4 (42:45):
Okay, So not Han. I think your listeners may be
aware of who he who he was and is the
Buddhist teacher, and he told his story and this story
really helps me in my darkest, darkest time, so I
kind of wanted to share that. And the story is
that if you can imagine that the whole earth, the
(43:08):
whole earth, is covered in water, the whole thing. There's
no land anywhere, and on the whole earth there's one
life preserver, just one. That's all the oceans, the Pacific
Ocean and the Atlantic Ocean, everywhere, all water and only
one life preserver. And nan Han told the story, having
(43:32):
a chance to have life on this earth is the
same as the chance of being swimming in that ocean
of the whole earth and having your head come up
in that life preserver and to me that when I
heard that story, it made me honor my life and
(43:54):
know it's for It's such a precious opportunity and a
precious experience. So no matter how dark it, God, I
would remember that story and remind myself of this precious,
really amazing, wonderful light experience that I'm able to have
(44:14):
on the third at this time.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Wow, that's just remarkable, remarkable, Debrah.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
I appreciate your insights on building resilience and for lighting
the way with your courage and wisdom. So listeners out there,
I hope that you get a copy of Debrah's memoir,
Great and Grace, the Transformation of a Ship and a Soul.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
I hope that it will have.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
A profound impact on the people who read it. I
with you and your family nothing but blessings and abundance.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Please take care.
Speaker 4 (44:47):
Thank you, doctor Rowe. It's been such a pleasure to
speak with you, and an honor. Blessings to you and
your family and all your listeners as well.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Deborah Radale, Everyone be sure to join me time for
more uplifting story than insights on resilience. Until then, keep
pushing forward, Embrace the journey and remember that every set
can lead to a greater comeback.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
Doctor Rowe signing off.
What do you do when the foundations of your world
crumble beneath you and your standing amidst the ruins of
your dreams? How do you find the strength to rebuild, redefine,
and claim your life Today? On life Jack The Resilience Podcast,
I have the extraordinary Debrah Riddell, whose life story is
(00:23):
a testament to the human spirit incredible capacity for resilience
and reinvention. From navigating the challenges of being a single
mother and enduring two divorces to experiencing profound spiritual disillusionment,
Debrah has faced life upheavals with grace and grips her
(00:44):
journey from a small town in British Columbia to becoming
a university professor and the author of her memoir, Grit
and Grace, The Transformation of a Ship and a Soul.
It's filled with lessons on resilience, creativity, and finding one's past.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
In the world.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Join us as we dive into her remarkable story and
discover the wisdom she has gathered along the way.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Sometimes life gives us lemons, Sometimes it gives us lemonade.
Other Times it gives us something entirely out of left
field that makes us say w t F But no
matter what obstacles come, there is most often a way
out on the other side, and we are once again victorious.
(01:37):
My name is doctor Rome and you are listening to
my podcast about resilience. Every guest shares a tragedy to
triumph story to give listeners like you the inspiration to
push through every single day. Listen now as my next
guest shares how they were life check.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Hi Deborah, welcome, Thank you so much for being a
guest on my show.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
How are you?
Speaker 4 (02:05):
I am excited and thank you doctor Rowe for having
me on your program. Yes, it's most certainly a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Now Deborah to taking us back to your early years
in British Columbia and kind of share the upbreak like
you're share a little bit about about your upbringing that
helped to shape your perspective on resilience.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Yes, well, I was the oldest of four, which happened
a lot in the fifties and sixties, and being the
eldest of four with really close siblings, I ended up
having to grow up really fast and help my mom
with the little ones. And part of that was that
when things went on in my life, I had to
(02:47):
figure it out myself, So that was a pretty big
shaping factor. Another factor was that I had a grandmother
who started talking to me when I was seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven,
twelve well about reincarnation, about karma, about my soul, about energy.
So this was a pretty formative thing to happen early on.
(03:10):
And these gave this gave me tools to look at
life from for the rest of my life, like a
perspective of groundwork that was unique.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yes, So do you think that the way that you
look at resilience initially in your childhood has it evolved
at all now as an adult?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
I hope so. On one level it's the same.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
I'm still I'm still looking at the big picture and
finding ways to go inside and ways to navigate what's
happening to me in my life as a lesson and
to learn from. And I think as time's gone by,
I'm why I don't get thrown off whack so much.
(04:03):
I think that it's a little there's a little more
grace around. Oh, this is life. This is a bump
in the road, rather than you know, the end of
the world.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
I think that is through to everyone.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
As we get older, we start recognizing certain events in
our lives, we're able to handle them a little bit better,
whether it's events in our.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Lives or people.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
It just seems like as you get older, you just
don't worry about things as much.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
Yeah, thank goodness, right, most definitely when people say they
wish they were twenty again, I'm really not in that camp.
I really enjoy having a little more perspective and wisdom
to navigate through these rough times.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
I can attest to that as well, for sure.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Now you fay significant life changes such as becoming a
single mom at a young age. Of course, children are
a blessing no matter when they come into our lives
and when they come into the world. However, when you're younger,
especially when you don't plan to be a mother, or
you're not exactly financially ready or equipped to be a parent,
(05:15):
it can be kind of difficult and it almost feels
like that is a life jacked moment. Although, like I said,
children are a blessing, but it can feel very much like,
oh my gosh, what I'm going to do now?
Speaker 4 (05:25):
Right?
Speaker 1 (05:26):
So absolutely absolutely so. How did you kind of strength
to navigate this early on? I mean, did you have
a support system or was it just that you know what,
you got pregnant, you're out on your own.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
I had baby Daddy was with me till for about
seven months after he was born, so I had a
little bit of time where I wasn't on my own,
but then I was on my own, and it was
kind of a shock in some ways. But on another way,
I had, you know, kind of talked to myself to
(06:00):
build up my confidence of what I would have to do.
But I didn't realize was how much it costs to
do everything. So I did end up going into you know,
a welfare office to get some support, and it was
so humiliating and so horrible that I just determined right
(06:21):
there I would never go in that place again ever, ever, ever,
and I would get it together.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Like you know, it's interesting that as human beings, essentially
that is our job. I mean, that's why we find
a partner, right, We find a partner to mate to
populate the earth, right And so yes, yes, no matter
how you know life, you create life, whether planned or
on planned. But it's interesting that if you don't have
(06:48):
the money and you do have to go apply for assistance,
why is it that they make you feel dirty? Like
I don't, I mean, I haven't had that experience personally,
but I've heard that from many people that when they
have to go want to go and apply for assistance,
they just make you feel so ashamed when I mean,
if humans is natural, we're supposed to populate the earth
(07:08):
and be as they say, be fruitful and multiply. But
then sometimes it doesn't all fall in the place exactly
how you want it to.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
No, it it really doesn't. And it really was quite
a shock to me because when I went in that
welfare office there was a bunch of like young guys
in there, which is weird, but and yet and there
I was with this baby and somehow, you know, it
(07:38):
wasn't okay, So it was. It was quite a it
was quite a turning point in my life to really,
you know, get that picture that Okay, you're not coming
back in this room, no way.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Yeah, most definitely.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Now you are a member of the rashniche Karam religious
community in Oregon, which has been described as a true
utopian community. I mean it was the idealistic, you know,
type of youth like I said, utopian community that everyone wants,
(08:12):
wanted would want to be in. Of course, it's no
longer around but how did you become a member of
this community?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
And when you.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
Found a community, what was the initial experience like for you?
Thank you for describing it as a true utopian community.
That's really wonderful because a lot of times people start
that up pretty controversially. But I really appreciate that you
called it that because it really was. And to answer
your question, I became a member because we were Sonyasums.
(08:43):
We'd already taken Sonya with a Guan, which means that
you were a disciple, and you wore a mala and
you wore red clothes. And when Guan left India to
come to America, he started this branch in Oregon, and
the ranch people called my husband and asked him if
(09:05):
he would come down and be their dentist. And my
husband replied, yes, but only if Debbie can come too,
So yes, they said I could come. So that's how
I ended up there. And then the initial experience was really,
really difficult. I can't lie about that, and I do
(09:25):
write about it in my story. When you grow up
in our culture, there are certain things that are just normal.
You just grow up with habitual ways to respond to things,
habitual ways to live, to do things, and when you
shake that up, it's quite a shock. Now I can
(09:46):
give a little story here. There's a story somebody tells
about fish in the ocean, and one fish swims by
two other fish and asks them how's the water, And
the two other fish say, what's water? So that's what
I mean by having you know. We're in this world
(10:07):
and we grow up with a nuclear family, and we
live in a house, and we grow grocery shopping and
we drive around in cars. These things are all normal.
You get into a community like I went into, and
all of a sudden it's set up like a kibbutz.
The men live in one place, the women live in
another place, the kids live in another place, and you
(10:29):
just do your job. You don't cook, clean, drive, get gas,
get groceries, none of that other people do all that.
All you do is your job. Who was quite a
shock at first.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
So shortly after you were there, however, you experienced what
somewhat call a spiritual disillusionment while there, So first of all,
could you kind of explain to the listeners who may
not know what exactly is this spiritual disillusionment?
Speaker 4 (11:03):
Okay? So, and before I answer that, I'm just going
to say that I was fully immersed and fully participating
and happy to be there for four years. The disillusionment
didn't happen until Beguan left. So that's when the disillusionment happened.
(11:25):
Now disillusionment, I'll give you an example. Beguan called a
press conference the end and all these people came, like
there was thousands and thousands of people and pressed from
all over the world, and he was speaking about why
Sheila had left. Now, Sheila was his secretary and the
(11:46):
head of the branch, and when he was speaking, he
wasn't telling the truth. And I happened to know that
because I worked in Shila's house, so I knew kind
of what went on in her house and what but
Guan was saying didn't match. Now, the spiritual disillusionment comes in.
(12:06):
When I was thinking of this person as this really
ideal person who always says the truth has our highest
spiritual good in his heart and in his mind is
only about the light and the love, Like that's the
idea I have in my head. And to hear someone
who was my teacher a lie in front of all
(12:29):
those people was purely like it was such a shock,
and I went to stand up, and I have to
say this, but I went to stand up. And because
it was such a controversial situation, there was really high security.
So we had the Peace Force, which was the city's
(12:50):
police force. We called them the Peace Force. They were
armed with uzy around the outside of the whole perimeter
of this big meeting hall. And I knew that they
were there because a lot of the local people were
there and wanting to be violent towards Boguan. They really
didn't like us red people. And I had to look
(13:14):
around and my friends were pulling on my arm. Don't
stand up, don't stand up, because if there was any
kind of disturbance in the crowd, then there was a
chance for violence because the tensions were so high. So
in that moment, I didn't stand up, even though I
knew he lied, So I had a double whammy. I
was really disturbed that my teacher and the person I
(13:36):
looked up to had lied, and I was really freaked
out about myself, who I thought was a person with
a lot of integrity, and I did not stand up.
I stay silent. Part of the reason for writing this
book I'm going to segue into another section here, was
because it is my I'm wanting to speak up to talk.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
A while, and we'll get to your memoir a little
bit later in a conversation. So how did you begin
to rebuild your inner framework? Because, of course, when you
had the inclination to stand up, because you were like,
this is not right, that's not true, and so you
kind of had an inner conflict like a betrayal almost right,
(14:22):
because you're someone who is spreading untruth and within the
community that you, at one point in time.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Felt very safe to be in.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
So how did you get to rebuild your inner framework?
Because anytime we experience a moment of distrust or betrayal,
something in us gets broken, right, there's a link broken somewhere,
and sometimes it can be developing trust with other people,
and so you have to kind of work on yourself
(14:53):
right to be able to trust again or build intimate
relationships with a person again.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
So what did you do to restrain?
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Yeah, what did you do to build rebuild your inner framework?
Speaker 4 (15:07):
Yes? And I have to say that, well, I knew
he lied, and I didn't know what was going on.
It took a long time, and it took quite a
bit of space, like several years to really understand what
had happened to me. And during that time, the one
(15:28):
thing that I was doing was when anybody mentioned God
or spirituality, I had to tell myself, no, that was
a failed experiment. So for several years, I every time
I wanted to find paulas in, oh there's a bigger picture,
or God will take care of that, or oh, you know,
(15:49):
my faith, anytime I wanted to go to do that,
I stopped myself and reminded myself that I had tried,
that I'd given up everything for it, and its failed.
And I did that for several years, and it was
really hard. And then yeah, and the other thing about
(16:11):
those two years was it took a couple of years
to reintegrate into society. We've been living with the goal
for all of humanity and for peace on the whole
of the earth, and how to grow our own food
and live together without money and greed and climbing on
(16:32):
each other to get ahead, and living in a different way,
living together, cooperatively, helping each other, building something that we
could all blossom together with and in. And when we
came out all of a sudden, there was just you know,
my husband and me and our kids, and it was
(16:53):
like so narrow and shortsighted, like how do you start
living just for my what do I want? Like? It
was really hard to make that switch. So those are
the first two things I had to do for a
few years before I could actually start growing and healing. No,
I understand that.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
And so in part of that healing, you decided to
move to Kawaii in Hawaii and you began rebuilding an
old boat, which sounds like a transformative experience. I mean,
of course you're transforming a boat in any time that
(17:36):
it seems like anytime we want to go through a
sort of transformation around our lives, it's almost like we
also transformed something else around us. For you and your instance,
it's an old boat. So how did this time contribute
to your healing and growth?
Speaker 4 (17:54):
It was, It was amazing. And again in hindsight, I
didn't know at the time. It's just over the four
years that we were working on that project. And first
of all, I want to just mention that Kawaii, historically,
and I mean ancient history, is known as the Healing Island.
That people did not live on Kawaii. That was the
(18:16):
island where the shaman's and the kings and queens went
for their healing and sacred ceremony. So I didn't know
that at the time, but I've learned that since. So
we moved there and here we were building this boat.
Now there's a few things about building a boat. You're right,
it's transformative inside and out. That's true that it takes
(18:40):
really a lot of time. There's a lot of standing,
a lot of varnishing, a lot of painting, and each
thing takes a long time. For example, one mask is
sixty five feet long. It took me five days, Like
these are full days. These are eight hour days standing
to finish one mast, just standing. So that's a very repetitive,
(19:04):
monotonous job. Then you've got your ear Yeah, you've got
your ear plugs in, you know, because you know ear muss.
We didn't have headphones back then so much. So I
had ear protection because I was using, you know, an
orbital slander and there was a big generator and all,
(19:24):
so I had ear protection. And you just are in
this zone. And I think in that zone that was
almost like a helpful meditative space to help my mind
start unraveling this yarn of my life that had become
quite tangled and involved and start looking at where I'd been,
(19:47):
why I had been there, what had I done there?
Was it worth it? Was it really true? Was I
really misguided? And was I really like? So I called
myself like stupid or something that I didn't know right
from wrong, and I couldn't tell a charlatan from a truth,
(20:08):
you know, a man of truth. Like. There was those
kind of questions, deep questions, and I had a lot
of time to just and space to give myself to
think about it without getting up tight, you know how
you get into tough questions and you get tight. When
I was standing and varnishing, I would hit a tight
spot and you just varnishing and it would come up
(20:28):
again and I could go a little deeper. So that
was how building the boat really really helped. And I
think another aspect of this is that being on a
spiritual path, we're in the energetic world a lot kind
of in those days pretty airy fairy. Do you know
that expression? No? No, you know when people are they're
(20:51):
not real grounded, they're kind of flighty and just off
in la la land, being all spiritual love bunny. So
I think through but there was an element of working
on the boat where I had to get really grounded.
I had to be on the ground. What I could touch,
what I could feel, what was real, hard solid Newtonian physics,
(21:13):
if you want to go that way, you know, like
the material world for real. And I think working on
the project also really brought me down into this material
world a lot more.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Now you it seems like that nature plays a crucial
role in your life's journey, from being an organ in
the rush Niche Piram community, which organ is a beautiful
state full of beautiful landscapes, and then moving.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
To Kawaii, which is a healing island. In that island,
nature is very.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Healing, and so it seems like that the natural world
is very nurturing to you. Do you think that is
the case and what does the natural world really do
for you?
Speaker 4 (22:05):
Absolutely? I mean I'd come from British Columbia in the
middle of the winter, so I ended up in Kawaii
in a boatyard where it's tropical, and we lived on
the water, and we were working on the water and
you're standing and varnishing and the trade winds are blowing through,
so you're never super hot. Even though it's sunny and warm.
(22:27):
The trade winds are always blowing, and at the end
of every day, my son and I would leave the
boatyard a bit before my husband and we'd go back
to where we lived, which was you know, I just
have to tell you where we lived, because it's now
the Marriat in Kawaii, in Lahui, but it was the
(22:48):
Western Kawaii, you know, the leech, rich and famous. It
was this incredibly richy resort, and there were these condos
that were out on the cliffs that were grandfathered into
the resort property. So these little condos had been out
(23:09):
there for you know, since the forties, and we happened
to know one of the owners who lived in Vancouver,
and so we were renting out there on the cliffs
out there in this incredibly luxurious place. So it was
really wonderful where we lived. But we come home from
work from the boatyard and all this saught us, and
(23:31):
the noise, and my son and I would go and
swim and across the bay and just wash all the
sought us off of us and swim in the sea
and see sea turtles. And yes we saw sharks that
they were hammerhead sharks that couldn't bite us, you know,
but so we were it was. It was quite lovely.
(23:52):
It was really lovely life.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Wow, let's get to your memoirs. Grit and great, the
trans formation of a ship and a sole and sad.
This memory chronicles your life experiences.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
So what was the inspiration for you to.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Decide I want to bear it all and I want
to share it in a memoir to the world. Because
that's incredibly that's a lot of courage, it's incredibly brave.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
Yes, And you know I didn't when I when I
started writing, it wasn't like I'm going to tell all
and bear it to the world. It really wasn't like that.
It was more like I had this inter naggling, like
you need to write your story down, and I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah,
you know sometime yeah yeah. And then one day it
was gully. It was ten years after we did the crossing.
(24:45):
I ran into a guy on the beach in my
hometown and he heard about the boat and the project
and he asked me questions. And when I was answering,
he said, you need to write this down. And I
said yes sometimes and he goes, no, no, no, you
need to write this and I said, well, I don't
really know where to start. He said, start anywhere, doesn't
(25:08):
matter where, start anywhere, Start tonight. So I made him
a promise I would start. So that night I went
home and I wrote the very first beginning of the book,
which is called the Gale, and I wrote that down
and that was the start. And then I just started writing.
And it took a long time, and I ended up,
(25:30):
you know, joining our writing group and all of that.
And as that went on, then I saw I had
a story. Like it wasn't just about building a boat.
It was about the branch. It was about what happened
with Bouguaan. It was about being in Shila's health and
knowing that my teacher had lied to me. And it
was about the things I had to face to reintegrate
(25:52):
into the world in a very real way and become grounded.
I hadn't started writing knowing that promise.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
You, So okay, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
Well, as far as what I hope readers will take
away from my story, first and foremost, that about freedom.
Freedom is the most important thing to me. And I
don't just mean freedom to you know, run around down
the world and do what you like. I mean freedom
on the inside. So no matter what is happening. You
(26:31):
have a sense of yourself and you can respond authentically
to the world and the people around you. To me,
that's freedom. Part of that is, you know, learning when
you're when you're stuck, or when you're blaming someone instead
of taking responsibility. For example in the rant, but Guan
is blaming Sheila, and then all of a sudden, yes,
(26:52):
blame Sheila even today, and a lot of them, not
all of them, but a lot of them. And to
me that it's really sad because they had an opportunity
for their freedom, and instead of looking at their own
involvement at the ranch and with the spiritual master, they
have this sort of little out, Oh, I can just
blame so and so, And that's really sad. That's the illusion,
(27:17):
that's the darkness. If you want freedom, you have to
find your place in it. No scapegoats, no blaming, even
if it looks perfectly reasonable. So I really hope that
people can see that. And if people are involved in
a spiritual group and have sort of a story about it,
(27:37):
like a blaming thing, that is a prap And I
pray and hope and that's my dream that people can
can find their way around and through that into true
freedom and accept those challenges of having a scapegoat as
a tool that teaches them even more about freedom and
(28:00):
they can get even more of their own connection to
the divine.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yes, I understand that. And freedom is an important right.
People don't understand that.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Freedom.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
You know, it is the power or the right to speak,
to act, to change even as you want, without any
hindrance or restraints.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Right, you can believe what you want, right, feel what you.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Want, You can do what you want, you can say
what you want within reason. Because we know certain people
of our nation and our of our world like to
just say random.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Things and just say anything. And it's like, well, well
don't say.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
That, because that can just cause lots of chaos and confusions.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
But that's that's discernment. That's discernment, and we have to
learn that too.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
But you really can't put a price on freedom, can you,
you know, I mean, freedom is the ultimate existence at
least I believe something.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
Yeah, And there's and there's so many levels of it,
and we're dealing with all the levels right now in
our world. Like you know, the freedom we you know,
even in our cultures, people don't even have freedom to
get a job that they want or not or work
at this or that. If you're a man or a woman,
or if you're this color or that color. There's all
(29:21):
kinds of external physical things that don't allow freedom. And
at the same time, on another level, there's also the
inner freedom, which I think by going for the inner freedom,
you can do the alchemy to handle whatever is going
on on the outside with freedom. Does that make.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Sense for sure? Now?
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Of course, you know earlier we talked about the loss
of a community, right that the betrayal, you know, recognizing
that someone that you trusted is sharing untruthed and and
you've left the community, and even leaving that community, it
is a loss, right, it is a loss of a
(30:06):
support system that you had for several years. So and
I know that support systems are very important, especially with
being resilient and going through life, especially when you're experiencing
life jacked moments. So how did you find or did
you have to create a new support network once you
(30:28):
left the ranch?
Speaker 4 (30:30):
Yes, yes, I did have to create a new support network.
And I'll just say right out of the get go
that there is something that happens for thousands of people
and at its peak Regini's firm had ten thousand people,
now ten thousand people with a shared goal and a
(30:51):
shared you know, way of living and wanting to give
back to the world as shared commitment to cooperation. That
creates an energy field that's like a huge, powerful bubble.
And in my world we call that the Buddha field.
(31:11):
And when I left the ranch, I had to learn
to live without that Buddha field and I still am
living without that. I have never found anything that has
recreated that, and there is sadness with that. That's a
loss and a morning. And at the same time, to
(31:32):
go back into community, we all have our shadows still,
so there's still going to be things that happen in
struggles for power, struggles for prestige, struggles to be better
than the other person, to climb on other people. We
all have those shadow sides. And until people do do
their homework, and you know this from your job, you know,
(31:54):
people have to look inside and found those shadow sides.
And until we do that, living together in a utopian
community will will well, It'll have moments of great light
and the shadows side will will be exposed because the
light exposes the dark. That's the way it works here.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
So yes, the dark it truly does.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
It truly does.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (32:22):
Yeah, So I don't really have for a support group.
What I'd have to say is we'll build a group
of friends, building the boat we had, our group of
friends we had. I still have close girlfriends that I
speak with. When things get tough, I call them up
and have a heart to heart and we have a
promise to each other to be brutally honest. If I'm
(32:45):
in my stuff and I'm blaming someone or I'm not
taking responsibility, my friends will call me on it and
I will call them on it because we have that
commitment to our freedom, and that's really important. And the
resilience things would be having a spiritual practice like my meditation,
(33:06):
listening to people who speak the truths that are inspiring,
like your podcast for example. You know you are encouraging
people that have a lot of light to speak out.
That's important. That's vitamins for my soul, it really is.
And yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Want to speak to that light and dark. When you
said that light.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Pushes out darkness, because what people don't understand that is
so true because if you have light, right, lots of light,
but if you have just a little bit of darkness.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
There's still lights. A little bit of darkness does not
snuff out light, right. But no, if you have darkness
and you have just a little bit of light, then
the light takes over the darkness immediately. Just so even
as a.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Tiny tiny bit of light takes over the darkness, I
mean that it can light a whole room.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
Yeah, it can light a whole room.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Yes, just a little bit, right, just a little bit
of light, just a little bit of light.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
But if you have a darkness in a certain area,
it doesn't take away the light.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
It doesn't.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
That's phenomenal, great reminder, wonderful.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
They Now you are someone who has worked in both
health care and education, which are both fields that are
very service oriented, and they it offers a lot of
difficult times for people, right, because sometimes the intention doesn't
always match the outcome, especially in health care and education,
and there's a lot of issues as far as funding,
(34:52):
and you know, how to pay for health care, how
to pay for things in education, and so how being
involved in these two professions, do you think that they
that they influence your understanding of resilience.
Speaker 4 (35:08):
I do absolutely, and I think it's been wonderful to
be able to participate in both of those professions. First
of all, they're both giving back to people, which is
important to me. I worked as an accountant to get
through school, and I have to tell you it's really
nice when all the numbers line up and everything, but
(35:28):
it's so dry when you're not dealing with people.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Yeah, yeah, I really mean to they don't interact with you.
Speaker 4 (35:38):
No, no, and they help me pay my bills. But
I really there's something so wonderful to have interaction with people.
And I can your question. There's two parts to this
because being a professional in both of those professions, it
affects me personally, but also professionally watching my students or
(36:02):
watching my patients. I've learned by all the different ways
that they respond to to their you know, life jack
and me having to be with them at those times.
So there's two ways to answer your question. And I
(36:22):
have to say that personally, it really gave me impetus always.
It gives me impetus to keep doing my homework, to
keep learning, to keep my mind open, to not judge
because there's so much going on under the surface when
you're interacting with people, whether as a dental hygdentist or
as a professor at the college. You know, people have
(36:46):
so much going on, especially now, and you could be
seeing something simple like flash your peep more and they'll
look out. But it's not necessarily because of what you said.
It's because of all the things in life. And if
I'm not sensitive to that, it's just a judgment, right, Like, yeah, yeah,
(37:08):
And if I'm not sensitive to that, then I'm not
being a very caring healthcare worker, you know, I'm not
being empathetic, I'm not being available, and then whatever healing
needs to happen gets, you know, curtailed quite a bit.
And same with education. If I'm in my story about
(37:30):
what's happened to me that day, and a student is
in their story but what happened to them, it's pretty
hard to get any learning across, right. Yeah. So it's
a really good encouragement. I'm so grateful because it's kept
me my whole life really on the path to making
(37:53):
sure that I'm paying attention inside and I'm doing my
own work and being more available for what needs to
happen in my responses to others.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Now, Debra, I can't even believe that we've come to
the end of this conversation because it's just been such
a pleasure to speak with you and for you to
share your story on the show. But I have to
ask you, as I asked all of my guests about,
you know, building resilience, and what advice would you give
to someone who is currently facing a significant life challenge
(38:27):
and they're seeking.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
To build resilience.
Speaker 4 (38:33):
No, this is this is such a good question. And
when I look inside, when I was really in my
dark nights of the soul and I was really really tough,
advice doesn't work. I you know, words, It's like people
tell you things and you're just like you can't hear.
You're so covered over and looking for you know, a
(38:57):
way through, and it just looks like dead end and
everything's dark. And in those moments, I would hope that
you can people can find a friend or something that
someone that can just sit with them. So in my
working with people too, it's like it's better sometimes if
(39:20):
I don't talk, if I don't give advice, if I'm
just able to be there with them and understand that
sometimes words and any kind of ideas about what someone
should do or shouldn't do or is just not going
to work, and what people really need is so much
love and acceptance in those moments for them to help
(39:41):
get through to the next step. So having said that,
I will also say that when you're in a really
dark place, and this helped me a lot, was it'll change.
I just had to tell myself it'll eventually change to
be like this forever, even though it feels like forever.
So I would tell myself that, and then when you're
(40:04):
in a little bit of a better space. For me,
it's always remembering a really big picture that you know,
our life is huge, and our universe is huge, and
the lifetime that we're in now is like a blink
of an eye. And I think that's written in fully
books all over the place. And yet even though it's
(40:27):
a blink of an eye, our time here is important
and special. Like you know about a hologram. If you
take a postcard, that's a hologram. If you take one
little like flipping off it like a millimeter by a millimeter,
and you look at that hologram, it has the whole
postcard in that little tiny bit that you tore off
(40:47):
the corner. So I think that we're like that in
this world. We were we're small and the world is
huge and life is huge, but we're significant and some
how remembering that helps me to not take myself and
seriously sometimes to just go, Okay, this is one of
(41:08):
those bumps in the road, you know, like hang in
there and let's see what unfold, Let's see what's next,
and remember that you're loved, You are loved, you are
so loved.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Thank you Deborah for sharing your inspiring journey with me
and the listeners today, Like Jack the Resilience Podcast, I mean,
your story is a powerful reminder that even in the
face of profound change and disillusionment, we can find the
strength to rebuild and reimagine our lives. I mean your
insights on creativity, nature and spiritual discernment, because you brought
(41:45):
that up when you were talking about freedom and you know,
recognizing that you must have discernment even within that freedom.
I mean it offer it offers valuable guidance for anyone
seeking resilience in their own journeys. So how can listeners
find and connect with you or purchase your memoir Grit
and Great The Transformation of a Ship and a Soul.
Speaker 4 (42:10):
Yes, I have a website. It's Deborah Ruddell dot com
and it's also going to be available on Amazon and
the usual book places, and it's being released on the
twenty seventh of February. However, my book launch is on
the twenty third of February at Tomino Books in delmar
(42:30):
So everyone's invited.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
He has any last words living for listeners.
Speaker 4 (42:38):
I do have a story. It's not a long story.
Do I have time for that?
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Absolutely?
Speaker 4 (42:45):
Okay, So not Han. I think your listeners may be
aware of who he who he was and is the
Buddhist teacher, and he told his story and this story
really helps me in my darkest, darkest time, so I
kind of wanted to share that. And the story is
that if you can imagine that the whole earth, the
(43:08):
whole earth, is covered in water, the whole thing. There's
no land anywhere, and on the whole earth there's one
life preserver, just one. That's all the oceans, the Pacific
Ocean and the Atlantic Ocean, everywhere, all water and only
one life preserver. And nan Han told the story, having
(43:32):
a chance to have life on this earth is the
same as the chance of being swimming in that ocean
of the whole earth and having your head come up
in that life preserver and to me that when I
heard that story, it made me honor my life and
(43:54):
know it's for It's such a precious opportunity and a
precious experience. So no matter how dark it, God, I
would remember that story and remind myself of this precious,
really amazing, wonderful light experience that I'm able to have
(44:14):
on the third at this time.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Wow, that's just remarkable, remarkable, Debrah.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
I appreciate your insights on building resilience and for lighting
the way with your courage and wisdom. So listeners out there,
I hope that you get a copy of Debrah's memoir,
Great and Grace, the Transformation of a Ship and a Soul.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
I hope that it will have.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
A profound impact on the people who read it. I
with you and your family nothing but blessings and abundance.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Please take care.
Speaker 4 (44:47):
Thank you, doctor Rowe. It's been such a pleasure to
speak with you, and an honor. Blessings to you and
your family and all your listeners as well.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Deborah Radale, Everyone be sure to join me time for
more uplifting story than insights on resilience. Until then, keep
pushing forward, Embrace the journey and remember that every set
can lead to a greater comeback.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
Doctor Rowe signing off.
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