Portals, Gateways in The Astral Realm w Michael Martin

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome, Welcome to Lighting with theVolume. A broad guesting line from a
check on a hill in the MossyCreek bottoms of King Creek, Arkansas.
This is Lighting the Void. Itis I believe it's Wednesday, right,
Yeah, it's Wednesday the seventeen,and we're live on the Fringe FM,

(00:21):
also on YouTube and Twitch and kick. Twitch and Kick are under Magic Maniac.
That's m A G I c Kmaniac with a C, but magic
with a K c K. Sowe're going to get into a little interesting

(00:43):
talk tonight with author Michael L.Martin, who's coming up with us just
shortly. Here are there portals inthe astral realm? Like if we learn
to control this place, do wehave the ability to too? I don't
know go through portals, So Idon't see many people talking about portals and

(01:04):
things like that other than Robert Monroeand maybe William Buelman in the astral realm.
But this guy claims that, youknow, he tried to get out
of body and he couldn't, buthe started to lose a dream and he
could get to the Obe state fromhis lucid dreams and then began to see
portals. So it was an interestingguy, and we're going to be showing

(01:27):
this interview tonight. I'll be herewith you in the chat all the time.
You can also call in at fiveo' one, triple seven fifty six
thirty one. And if you cansupport the Fringe Fringe FM, there's a
tons of ways of to support.You can do so on the website,
you can do so through YouTube here. And if you can't support monetarily and

(01:47):
you still find value and you wantto just listen to the show on the
podcast on spreaker. For some reason, if you listen to the show on
spreaker and it plays a few ads, it kicks us up a little bit
for support. So there are waysto support even if you you know you
don't have the financial means. Ofcourse, nobody likes ads, right,
and even the commercials we try toplay. We're trying to get to where

(02:10):
it's cooler to do this, butbroadcasting in four to five nights a week,
it's a lot of work, soyou know what's up. Joyce Wu
tang Hey is the Karma, Michael, I'm missing somebody yet, Barefoot Hippies.
Oh yeah, And you can goto the Patreon too and get let
me tell you how I do thetarot reading, so I don't pull your

(02:31):
like astrological sign and talk about allthat. I do a very old school
tarro reading, so there's a wholeceremony that I do around your reading.
And then I do the opening ofthe key spread, which yeah, it's
a little pricey, but I timeit correctly, I ritualize it correctly,
and it takes me like a fewhours to get this done, probably at

(02:54):
least three if I'm prepping it right. So it's a pretty intense and deep
keep reading if it's done correctly,you know. And if I do it
and I don't feel like it's donecorrectly, then I'll start over. I
don't take that stuff lightly. Soyou can get those two. You can
also join the Patreon ad. It'slike ten bucks a month and you get
access to all the audio downloads andthe stuff that we're going to be putting

(03:15):
in there. So tonight, MichaelL. Martin astral Gateways, this is
going to be cool. Okay,tomorrow, the one of the last living
students of Manly P Hall, RonniePontiac, will be on here if you
want to check him out. He'sbeen on a few shows of friends of
our shows. He's been on griAmerica, He's been on Anthony Tyler's podcast.

(03:37):
He's also been on I Believe theHigher Side Chats, who's another friend
of ours. He's been on thoseshows. So if you want to get
to know Ronnie a little bit,and then I would say, check those
shows out because tomorrow I'm going tobe asking him some questions, right and
then yeah, I think that's it. I think that's all of the all
of the announcements that I have beforewe get into this interview. I've got

(04:01):
man, I've been talking to Garethand his I got to tell the story
man real quick, because it's cool. So Gareth has a caretaker named Richard.
I don't know the guy. Idon't know what he looks like,
but I did get a picture ofGareth in his T shirt that we shipped
to London, and it's cool.But Richard was like a I hope he

(04:23):
doesn't mind something me saying his name. But he's a guy that finds all
this stuff. He's not like Fringy. But he did find it intriguing because
he would observe while me and Garethwould talk. I think he was typing
for him and the Messenger, I'mnot sure, And I got Richard to
check out Journeys out of the Bodyabout Robert Monroe. Always tell everybody to

(04:43):
start with that because it it hasa way of convincing you, because it
uses a lot of logic and reasonwhen it comes to the out of body
experience. And though out of bodyexperience is the only thing that I know
for a fact that's real. Sorich is very intrigued. We might actually
convert someone to the fringe right fromthat side. Anyways, And there was

(05:08):
one other thing I wanted to talkabout. Oh, I finished Jason Quit's
book, and I'm gonna do areview video on that. This book is
phenomenal. Honestly, it really is. If you know how Manly P.
Hall talked about there being seven keysto the divine revelation, So seven different
secrets are seven different interpretations of thestories or religion, if you want to

(05:33):
say that. So we know thatthere's probably an astrological interpretation, we know
that very well. There's also likebiological and the anatomy of it all,
and they're all true and it's atrip. Well, Jason really did find
something very cool. I don't wantto spoil it, so I'll save it
for the video, but get thebook Gates of the Onanaki, all right.

(05:55):
I don't want to keep you guyshere all night, so we're going
to get right into the interview.Here we go. So Mike Martin is
here with us tonight and we're goingto be talking about his book, My
Dark Explorations Portal Gateways in the astralby Michael L. Martin. You can
find this on Amazon. And he'sgot another book we're going to talk about
too here in just a second.But first I just want to say thanks

(06:17):
for coming on the program. Bro. That's good to have you on here.
Well, thank you for inviting me. It's good to be here.
So when you hit me up,I heard that. The first thing I
heard was, Hey, I knowI saw your show. I think I'd
be a good guest for your show. I figured out how to find these
gateways in Lucid Dreaming. No one'sever reached out to me and told me

(06:41):
that before. We've had a tonof guests on some of the bigger names
in Lucid Dreaming and all that onthe show a long time ago, and
I'd like to get him back.But to talk about gateways and lucid dreaming,
that's a whole other thing. Man. How did you stumble upon that?
Well, I kind of start fromthe beginning. I was when I
was a little kid, maybe fiveor six years old. I started having
these events and I didn't understand whatthey were, and it was kind of

(07:04):
this was back in the seventies,so it's no Internet or no nobody to
talk to. So I just wouldexperience them every once in a while and
then I just kind of like putthem out of my mind. And when
I grew up, I was inmy twenties early twenties, and I got
this timeline book series called Mysteries theUnknown, and one of the first books

(07:27):
had out of body experiences in it, and I was like, Wow,
that's really cool. I want tocheck that out. So I went and
got the book where by Robert Monroecalled Journeys out of the Body Perfect,
and it really intrigued me. Isaid, I'm going to do it.
I'm going to try that, andI'm I'm going to succeed. You know.
When I set my mind as something, that's just what I do.
So I got the book and Itried a different but I tried a bunch

(07:48):
of different ways to separate from mybody. None of them seemed to work.
So the one thing that I said, let me try the lucid dreaming
part. And I had been takingI've been recording my dreams, documenting those
for many years, and because Iwas studying the dreams and see if there's

(08:09):
anything I can correlate to my regularlife, and so I just said,
Okay, let me document this andI'll figure it out. So I got
to the point where in order torealize you're dreaming, you need to be
able to ask yourself during the daymany times, hey, am I dreaming?
And this is what I discovered.If you're dreaming and you look at

(08:30):
something and turn your head and lookat it again, it will have changed.
So what I did was I wouldset my watch an alarm many times
during the day and I would justask myself, am I dreaming? And
I'd look at something like a chair, I turned my head, I turned
back and look at it. Ifit hadn't changed, then I said,
oh, no, I'm not dreaming. But if it had, then I
knew at that point that I wasdreaming. So I kept doing it all

(08:54):
the time. Over and over,and I would focus on making sure every
night I would try. You know, I was just diligent about it.
And it took me about eleven monthsbefore I had my first successful lucid dream.
I got to the point where I'min a dream. Something set me
off. I realized it, andI told myself, I want to have

(09:16):
an out of body experience. Assoon as I thought that, it's telepathic.
As soon as I thought it,I was whisked out of the dream
and I was in the side ofmy house where my vehicle's at about ten
foot above the ground. Oh wow, mountains in the winter. It was
in the wintertime, and it wascold outside. I knew it was.
I could feel the air. Iwasn't cold, but my peripheral vision was

(09:37):
almost three hundred and sixty degrees andI could feel myself laying in bed and
I felt myself outside. So youknow, you're in two places simultaneously.
There's no absolutely no question of whetheryou are. If you're out of body,
you will know it. There's noquestion about it. Right. Yeah,
So I'm there, I'm taking ineverything. I'm trying to how far

(10:01):
can I see? What? DoI really feel like? I was trying
to go through all the stuff sothat while I was there, I could
input as much information as I could. And then I was trying to build
my body back in bed, andthen there was you can't do that,
So I was just trying everything inthat little bit of time. It was
carry a couple of minutes, andthen I was whisked back into my body

(10:22):
fully conscious still remember everything. Istarted writing it all down, like right
on, I've been successful and consciouslyhaving an out of body experience right on.
So at that point, yeah,at that point I started to think
about it and I was like,you know what, this is the same
stuff I was having when I wasa kid. I just didn't realize it
because I didn't go through lucid dreamingor anything else. I would be laying

(10:46):
in bed, maybe just like staringat the ceiling because when we were kids
they made us take a nap inthe afternoon, and now we just pretty
much lay there most of the time, not tired, and I didn't want
to sleep, so I would justall of a sudden, I'd be laying
there. The next thing I know, my note is like right next to
the ceiling, and it kind offreaked me out and then I was all
of a sudden whisp back in bed, and things of that nature would happen,

(11:07):
and that's what was going on.I was separating and not even knowing
it right. So at that pointI decided, Okay, I'm gonna continue
on with this. This is obviouslyI'm obviously successful in it, and I'm
gonna keep going. So what Idid was I decided that I'm gonna follow
this looser dreaming and that's gonna bemy go to. So what I did

(11:28):
was I just stepped it up.I started checking myself more and more during
the day. I set my alarms. I was probably doing twelve to fifteen
times a day asking myself because Ifigure, Okay, if I can get
my body into the into the methodologyof constantly asking and questioning myself, then
I will be more successful. Andit took a couple of months. I

(11:50):
kept trying, and I'm like,going, damn, one successful time,
she really get me in there.So the very next time was a couple
months later, and I was Iwas looseid in a dream and I go,
I want to have an out ofbody experience. And the first thing
that happened before I even got thatfull thought out. I'm back in bed,
I'm laying on my side, myeyes are closed, and I see

(12:13):
this oval shape with the black background. Now, the oval shape that I'm
seeing is an aerial view of acity by the water. Now, the
actual portal that that was a portal. The actual shape looked like it had
been punched through the black background ofwhen you close your eyes. But then

(12:35):
around the outside of that oval shapewas a border. I don't know,
maybe like three inches wide. I'mjust gonna saw it. Was it just
like a solid oval shape or didyou notice immediately it was like a city
or something? Well? No,Now, now let me say this first.
When I said, when I wasin the out of body experience,
you're utilizing your third eye. Okay, this vision is the same, the

(12:58):
same real type vision. Now,when I came out of that dream,
I still had that same for areal type vision. So what I'm seeing
is really wide with my eyes closed. Now, imagine you're seeing maybe something
that's uh, I don't know,maybe like one hundred feet wide, right,

(13:18):
okay. And then within in themiddle of that one hundred feet wide,
there was an oval shape in themiddle, and it looks like that
oval shape was punched through that blackbackground. It almost looked like it had
been you know, like you punchedthrough a piece of metal and there's all
kind of a shrapnel and everything.It looked like that. But around the
outside of that there was like anoval bracket or like a frame that shaped

(13:41):
the same shape as the portal,and it had a bunch of writing in
it, like it was a descriptionof whatever that city was or whatever.
And the writings were hieroglyphical. Theylooked kind of like a kind of the
old Hawaiian written language and had threedimensional shape apes in it. So it
was something that didn't look like anythingI've ever seen before. So I'm trying

(14:05):
to absorb all this that i can, and I know what's a live viewing
because I can see the water moving. So it was almost like somebody I'd
put a camera somewhere and was showingme from this higher elevation down to maybe
a forty five degree angle at thecity with the water. So I'm trying
to figure out what this writing is. I'm trying to figure out what's going

(14:28):
on. And then it lasts aboutthirty five maybe forty seconds, and then
it slowly fades away. It pixelatesand then fades away. So I opened
my eyes because I was fully conscious, and I write down what I saw.
Now, I don't have a photographicmemory, so I can't recall those

(14:50):
letters and that wording because I don'tknow it. It was anything that was
familiar to me. So I wrotedown everything that I experience and I felt
from that experience, and I calledit a viewing because I didn't know what
it was. I'd never heard ofanything. This is the early nineties,
okay, So I'm guessing on whatit is. I'm not sure that I'm

(15:13):
ever going to experience it again,so I just make the best of it
and write all this down. Now, my focal point was still astral projection,
so I kept trying. But afterthat point, every time that I
would become lucid in a dream,I wouldn't even get the chance to think.
I want to have an out ofbody experience. I'm pulled back into
bed and I have a portal infront of me. Now this has been

(15:37):
happened for over thirty years now,and what happened the first couple times it
was an oval shape with the blackbackground, and then eventually after the first
few times, it took up mywhole peripheral vision, so it was no
longer an oval shape. It wasnow my whole vision. Just like if
you're in the astral I mean it'ssuper wide. So if you're laying there,

(15:58):
it looks like you're sitting in frontof a two hundred inch TV right
in front of your face. Butyou didn't right there. You didn't ask
for this stuff to happen, right, Oh, you just started happening.
I never heard of it. Sothere was an author, a local author
in town that had written a bookand it was related to the astral and
the mental planes. I messaged himand they said, hey, do you

(16:18):
have any idea what's going on?I mean, I the only people that
I could think to ask are peoplethat have already been in these locations,
so they have an idea. Andhe didn't have any idea. And over
the years, I've looked things up, but I've come to the conclusion that
if there is somebody else, there'sprobably not many. But I've just come

(16:41):
to the conclusion that I have tocome up with my own answers myself.
Yeah, Now, as I goalong, I get to see two dimensional
worlds. I get to see otherbeings, and it looks like in other
time frames. Now when I'm talkingother timeframes, like maybe in the medieval
times, I get to see localcurrent times. And then eventually it started

(17:06):
going in other directions where I wasseeing things but I really couldn't explain why
I was seeing them. And ittook me about three years to understand that
I was seeing through the eyes ofother people. Really, that's true.
And so that started to progress,and I just find myself in these situations

(17:26):
where I spend the first five orsix seconds trying to understand where I'm at
and what's happening, because I'm It'slike taking a handful of rocks and just
throwing them off a building, andwherever one of them lands, that's where
I'm at. So I just keepdocumenting everything, and I just keep thinking

(17:51):
about it, and over the yearsit's you know, I was in my
twenties, I had a family,I was going to school, I had
a new career. So these thingstend to take a back seat when you're
really busy in life. Sure.Yeah, I just kept going along with
it, writing stuff down, andeventually I had to I got to the
point where I said I have tobecome somewhat focused on this if I want

(18:14):
to get anywhere with it. Soabout maybe fifteen years ago, and I
was I had an hour or twohour and a half commute each way to
work, and I was doing alot of daydreaming because there's not really much
to sea in traffic. So Idiscovered that there was something in the daydream
state. While we're daydreaming. There'ssomething there that I noticed, and I

(18:41):
wanted to figure it out. Soit took me, i would say,
off and on, about a yearto figure out what was going on.
What happens is when we're daydreaming,it's very it's very close to the same
mental state or brainwave state that wehave while we're actually dreaming. So that's
why it's called a day dream.It's still a dream, but you're still

(19:07):
Were you driving on the road orsomething when you were doing this, or
yeah, because that's what I'm I'mthinking, Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking
that's what happened to me, becauseI daydream when I'm out on the highway
sometimes most of the time, likeespecially in the summertime, you know,
the time I got off of work, you're sitting on the highway, you're
not going anywhere. Well, youmove ahead three inches or five feet and

(19:27):
then you stop, so you know, I mean, I'm in and out
of you know, of this consciousness. And then once I started really studying,
I have to do it when Iwas at home, but that's where
I realized there was something there.There was information being passed along to me,
but I couldn't recall anything. Iknew something was occurring, but I

(19:48):
couldn't. I couldn't remember anything.So what I ended up discovering is that
as humans, because let me goto this, we're all spiritual beings in
a human body. So we're actuallyspiritual beings before anything else, and we're
basically in a three dimensional prison.That's where we're at. That's the bottom

(20:11):
line. So let me go tothis point. Subconsciously, when we're daydreaming
or when we're dreaming, are subconsciousnessgoing there. So if you're dreaming,
your subconsciousness is with your astra body. You're projecting, and when you come
back, you're going to get someinformation, but it's not really very well
understood. Well, the same thingshappen and when you have a day dream,

(20:34):
but what happens is when you're ina daydream and you're bringing that information
back. You go through a veil, and that veil is very well insulated.
It's actually corrosive. It's like bringinga hard drive through a magnetic field.
It erases all the data off there, which is what your consciousness actually
goes through when you're doing this.So I determined there's something going on.

(21:00):
So I take the time and Ifigure out how to get myself in the
same brain we have activity as Ido, similar to a lucent dream,
and then I daydream into this.This this connection is what I call it,
which I ended up finding is alsoa portal connection. So we utilize,
all of us utilize these on adaily basis when we daydream, but

(21:23):
our subconsciousness is not bringing back theinformation. So what I did was I
did it over and over and overtill I got to the point where I
could consciously, I could project myconscious into that situation, take that information
and bring it back successfully and writeit down. Wow, that's crazy.

(21:48):
Yeah, let me put it thisway too. We all have three bodies.
We have a physical body on thephysical plane on Earth. We have
an astro body or spirit body onthe extra plane, and we also have
a soul which is on the mentalplane. Now, all each of the
bodies lives on that plane simultaneously,so you're living in three different places simultaneously.

(22:12):
And the only thing that happens whenyou have a conscious astral projection is
your spirit body will detach into theastral but you will bring your consciousness along
with it. Once all you're doingis projecting your conscious mind into that spirit
body so that you can become awareof what's happening. So that's all it

(22:34):
is. It's not you detaching,because it detaches when you're dreaming all the
time by itself. It's you movingyour consciousness to that point. So where
do these So you figured out howto like move consciously through certain things,
right, but where do these portalstake you? Like? Do they take

(22:56):
you places or are they just sayingor are they just opening up saying like,
hey, I'm here if you wantto access to this thing you know.
Well, I came to the conclusionthat I'm getting these portal experiences.
Now when I started having these,it didn't take me long to figure out
that these are these are initiated bya third party. I don't know who

(23:17):
the third party is. I neverfound out because once I had been having
these portals for maybe fifteen years,I started initiating them on my own.
And I do believe this whole thewhole purpose behind this was to show me
that there are different life forms muchdifferent from ours, and then to get

(23:37):
me to the point where I couldinitiate these myself. Because once you've once
you've experienced something so many times overand over, you can reproduce the brain
waves in order for that to becomea reality for you, in order to
make those connections yourself. So whatthis was is this was just an over

(23:59):
and over and over exposure to getme prepared in order to make these to
understand what happens. Because I'm atechnical person. I've worked in the technical
field for forty years, and forme, I need to understand how things
work, how to manipulate things,how to fix them. I just have
to understand things, and the onlyway to do that for me, the
best way is to show me howit works. But this third party doesn't

(24:26):
explain anything to me. They've neverspoke to me. They've sent me information
like in the portals with the writing. They've also sent paperwork in those portals
that I've seen, but it's allin this foreign writing. I don't have
any idea what it is, soobviously they speak some other language and I
have no concept of what it is. But what they're doing is basically training

(24:48):
me to do this, and that'swhat I've done, and I didn't tell
anybody until last year. I've beendoing this for over thirty years and the
only people that knew was maybe mywife and my children, and they didn't
really take an interest in it.So for me, you know, I
wanted to figure out how to dothis and duplicate the whole process. And
I have found that other beings andother dimensions utilize portals the same way we

(25:15):
use a cell phone. Portals canbe used for direct communication between two sources,
are directed from a third source.They can be used for travel,
and they can be used for otherthings as well. And this is something
that I think probably medicine, menand things have accessed in the past to
h to communicate with other beings becauseit's once you know how to utilize it,

(25:37):
it's very easy to make a connection. But sometimes you don't really know
where you're going to connect to,and you find out pretty quickly. Man
that'd be. So did you endup going through like this is the trippiest
thing I've because you listen to RobertMonroe's or read Robert Monroe's books, Right,
So a lot of trippy things happenedto him too. Right. But

(26:00):
once you saw these portals, wereyou not scared? Like, man,
I don't know if I should gothrough them? Did you feel anything when
you saw them? Or were youjust well, generally I don't go through
the portals. They're uses a communication. So let me put it this way.
When I have a portal connection thenightly portals, usually I'm right there,
so you feel like you're in themidst of wherever you're wherever you're looking

(26:23):
at. There's a connection, there'san energy connection. Then when I make
what I call the glimpses, whichis what I discovered about fifteen years ago
that I can do in the daytime, doesn't have to do with the dream
state. Those are a connection asif you were sitting in a room or
sitting right next to this other beingand they're communicating with you just as if

(26:45):
you're right there. Yet, whenI'm having this experience, I also know
where I'm at. I'm still inthat room, sitting in the chair.
But I also know that I'm thereat that point as well. But I
can control it. I can Ican cut it off at any moment.
And there's been communication back and forthand it's all telepathic. But at one

(27:07):
point I got to the point whereI was told to repeat something many times
in order to remember it, andI was actually physically speaking. I can
get up and walk around if Iwanted to during these things, but it's
harder to keep the connection if you'rephysically doing something. It's best to be
sitting down and mentally focused because ittakes about one hundred and fifty percent of
your focus once you've made the connectionto stay connected and remember and retain everything.

(27:33):
Wow, but you still don't knowto this day or do you where
these messages are coming from? No, actually I don't. I have no
idea, and I think there's apurpose behind that. Yeah, that brings
up a lot of questions, man, because if you don't know where they're
coming from, obviously people are goingto say, well, it could be

(27:56):
aliens, it could be the government, it could be your mind, it
could be I don't see how itcould be your mind, though, Like
if you're because they are coming fromplaces. Question this no see for me,
and I tell everybody this all thetime. Question everything. Don't believe
me, don't believe anybody. WhatI tell everybody is the only way that

(28:17):
you can know truth is through yourown personal experience. That's it. Now,
If I if I had one ortwo of these, then I would
not really have a you know,a cup to hold it. But realistically,
in the past thirty years, Iprobably had close to a thousand of
these, and I can control howI make the connection, and I know

(28:40):
an out of body experience, andthat there's no way you can prove that
you had an out of body experienceto somebody, because you know it's It's
no different if if I was theonly person in the world that dreamed,
how could I prove to you thatI'm I actually dream You'd be like,
well, that doesn't make any sense. Nobody does that. Yeah. I
know when Road tried to do it, like by by affecting physical things,

(29:02):
and he tried a couple of things, but there really isn't. Even in
the Monroe Institute, if you listento all of the Gateway Explorer stuff,
there's some pretty revealing evidence that man, they definitely had an out of body
experience, but it never one hundredpercent definitively and like proofs that they had
one, you know well. Andthe whole thing is you're trying to prove

(29:23):
something this spiritual in a physical world, right, And so to me,
it's not about proof, it's aboutunderstanding, it's about manipulation, it's about
getting the whole picture. And sowith all of these experiences, I go
there, I bring information. Alot of the information is generalized information,

(29:47):
some of it had to do withme, and some of them was just
like this doesn't really make much senseto me. But what I did under,
what I did discover is when youare consciously going some say whether it's
the astral or somewhere else, andyou're in a localized area, people are

(30:07):
those beings are going to flock toyou, and they're going to flock to
you like a tourist guide would beat the Pyramids. They're all going to
want to sell you their service.Now, if you buy into it,
then they're going to lead you everywhereand they're going to be the ones to
tell you everything. So what happenedwas I'm going on there and several times.

(30:32):
Not long after I began doing this, I was told, you know,
there's a way that we can keepthose portals open and we can show
you how. And I said,oh no, that's a red flag right
there. Man. That tells methere's manipulation going on here. So I
said, no, thank you.Didn't take any interest, and slowly as
time went on, they weren't hangingaround me like they were before. Now

(30:56):
let me give you an example basedupon on what happens when you go to
these places and you're being told allthis information, people buy into it without
questioning anything. Now, misinformation meansthere's a little bit of truth, just

(31:18):
enough to sell you on the point, but the rest of it is bullshit.
Yeah. Yeah. Every being everywhere, it doesn't matter where they're at,
has their own agenda. You haveto remember that doesn't matter if you're
on the astral doesn't matter if you'rein another galaxy or another dimension. Everyone

(31:41):
has their own agenda because you don'tknow what it is. When you go
on their playing field, they aregoing to manipulate you. They're going to
manipulate how they look. They canmake themselves look like anything to make you
feel more comfortable. So in mycase, a lot of times it was
a human image. I knew itwasn't a human, but they made the
human image so that I would becomfort talking to them, I would trust
them, and then the background willmost likely be like a town that I

(32:04):
would recognize, so they it wasall about me be feeling comfortable. The
other thing is that people don't understandis there's a whole there's a whole record
system, like you know the Kashikrecords. These beings have a connection with
those records because it's twenty four toseven video audio. Everything about us is

(32:25):
in those records and they have accessto it, so they know everything about
you before you even get there.So whatever you want to hear, they're
going to tell you exactly what youwant to hear. So when people leave
Earth because they want to get awayto somewhere that's free and spiritual and stuff,
and they go to the Astral,what you're doing is you're leaving gen

(32:46):
Pop prison and you're going into theprison yard. You're still in the prison,
You're just going into the yard andall the ones, all those ones,
the beings that work on the astralall work for the warden. You're
not getting anywhere, you're not freeingyourself at all. And if you buy
into their bullshit, then what you'regoing to do is you're going to just

(33:08):
keeping their agenda going. Because whatwe're experiencing here on Earth is just another
level of what's going on in theastral They are created for damage control.
All the people that that escape Earth. They are there to manipulate those people

(33:34):
into following them and only believing whatthey are told, so they don't learn
anything more than they would they wouldlearn on Earth. Because so we keep
recycling or something. Put it thisway, with all the psychics and all
the people that have spirit guides andall the angels and everything, why do

(33:55):
we have four hundred and sixty thousandhills ldren missing every year in the United
States? Yeah, it makes itdoesn't make a lot of sense, I
know, saying you had one hundredpoliticians missing every year, shut the country
down. We can't have this,But we can have all these children missing.
There's a lot of things going on. So if they were really helping

(34:16):
us, then we would be findingthese kids and they wouldn't be having this
problem. So we have to lookat things realistically and understand that the manipulation
is a multi level manipulation on us. So it's good to look, it's
good to find truth, but youneed to experience it on your own.

(34:38):
And that's why when I go andexplore, I'm going there, I don't
make any judgment calls. I don'tthink about anything other than getting the information,
bringing it back, document documenting,and at that point I start to
make I start to determine what thereis there and also apply that to what

(35:05):
I've experienced in the past. Andsometimes it might be years before I can
put that information together and be ableto correlate it into something that really works.
But everything that I've experienced personally iswhat I based my opinions on and
what I base what's happening on.Yeah, so that so I read so

(35:27):
like I study the out of bodystuff, but also study the you know,
hermetic mystery schools and stuff too.And these guys in the mystery schools
say it more than you know theout of body travelers do that the actionl
realm is full of deceptive beings,and it's full of all kinds of things
that are deceptive. So they developways to test the beings and all the

(35:49):
stuff because they knew it was amassive world of illusions, you know,
so it's crazy to think about.Yeah, And it's as with anybody wouldn't
trust somebody off the street to justcome up and give you a bunch of
information, you know, and mostlikely, like when I communicate with these
beings what they tell me, Ireally don't pay much attention to it.

(36:10):
I mean, I'll document everything,but there's not going to be any groundbreaking
like things like, oh, yeah, we're gonna come save you guys,
and this is how we can helpyou can help yourselves. No, if
anybody believes that anybody is going tocome here and save us, they're they're
in the wrong world, because that'snot going to happen. The only people

(36:32):
that are going to save us arethe only beings that are going to save
us are ourselves. And the onlyway we're going to get to that point
is by understanding and realizing that wehave the potential to help ourselves. We
have the potential to overpower anything thatcomes our way. Since we are spiritual
beings, we don't need to relyon technology, we don't need to rely

(36:53):
on all this stuff. We've beenconvinced that because we've been programmed can be
to understan that. Yeah, sowe have the potential as spiritual beings.
We are creators, but we arecreators trapped within a prison. In order
for us to be to be manipulated, first we need to be confined to

(37:14):
a low vibrational human body, whichis one. And then we need to
be separated from our source. Andthen we need to be highly insulated from
our source. And one thing thatI remember you in one of your podcasts,
you had mentioned about the blocks.Why are we being blocked? Do

(37:37):
you remember that? Yeah, Well, like when you try to have an
out of body experience, a lotof times you get blocked and that sort
of thing. Oh yeah, Igot shoved back in my body and I
did peel myself out of body.I mean, I got you know what
you were trying to do. Atfirst, I did it. It took
me forever, but I did it. And then I tried to keep doing
it again and just weird, likeone time I was blind, one time

(38:01):
things were fuzzy, and another timeI got halfway out and I said this
thing. I said, release meby life and light. I command you
to release me by life and light, is what I said. And I
don't even know where the hell thatvoice came from. And it wasn't my
voice, but it came out ofme. And these little rawsh act looking

(38:22):
figures or whatever they just I mean, in a matter of a millisecond,
just came down and just shoved meright back in my body. It was
crazy, It was really crazy.Let me give you a description of what
we're what we're up against, justin general. This is this is our
situation in Earth. And I wrotethis in my last book, says we

(38:43):
are all currently suspended within a multilayered, heavily insulated, and cryptically manipulated
existence that monopolizes are collective for thebenefit of a self serving parasitic race.
That's where we're at. We aregoing up against high levels of manipulation,
multi levels of it, as wellas technology. In order to keep us

(39:05):
down, in order to keep usunder control, they have to keep us
really thinking that we're only human beingsthat were not spiritual beings. They want
to get rid of all the informationthat has to do with spirituality, and
they want us to believe that everythingthat matters is here on earth. All
the drama that happens your life,its super keep you overwhelmed with it when

(39:30):
in reality we have the ability tocreate universes for ourselves, but the insulation
and all of the vibrational UH strategiesmake it more difficult for us to connect
with our source. But the problemis now you said, you know,

(39:51):
you feel like you're being blocked andstuff like that. Well, the only
way you can get us started manifestingthings into my life, like really stepped
into what you're talking about, right, and without being afraid, and things
started manifesting in my life like crazy. But we all get to a point,
I think where when we start manifestingstuff that we come up to this

(40:14):
place where we're not. I don'tknow, but for me, things started
getting so good that you start toquestion it. And I think there's something
about fear or something that when itcomes in other things start trying to block
your manifestation so to speak, right, And then there's like a war going
on for just how creative are you? You know, and then people come

(40:35):
out and start questioning you and allkinds of different things. Right, And
it wasn't that way at first.First you were inspiring people and then but
once you really start manifesting, thenthe dark crap comes out, you know,
and it's all weird. I say, adapt and persevere, do not
let anything any time for any reason, and getting your way. You are

(41:02):
the bulldozer and they are the trafficcones. What I have found is all
these years, I haven't had anybodyto talk to, anybody to ask.
And you talk about levels of frustrationbeyond, I was beyond that. And
I still get frustrated and it's stilldifficult. But then again, I'm the

(41:24):
type of person that once I setmy mind to it, I have the
drive to push me through anything,even if I feel at times that I'm
not really pushing forward. As longas I still remain focused on that,
I will not let anything get inmy way. Now, when you bring

(41:45):
up what I call the dark ones, they will be there. They are
here. And what I have foundis and when I was a kid,
I had a lot of really badnightmares. I didn't have many years,
and they started about I don't know, twelve years ago they started again.
I said, you gotta be kiddingme. This is ridiculous. So every

(42:06):
time they would start to come intomy dream, it would pixel eight and
it would be black, and itwas a darkness that absorbs light, so
you can't see through it, soit would start to get it would be
like a normal dream, and allof a sudden, it starts starts to
darken, and I know what's goingon. I'm pulled it out of the
dream. There's a portal. Soit was happening every time I'm pulled into
a portal. Finally I got desensitizedto the point where it didn't bother me

(42:30):
anymore. I'm like, screw this, I'm just gonna say I'm going to
figure out what's out what this is. So I got to a point where
it was me and someone elseone elsesitting in the table in my dream,
and at that point I became awareand I was looseid in that dream,
and it started getting darker and darker, and finally this figure walks to the

(42:52):
other side of the table and grabssomething that was mine in the dream from
the table, and I smashed theother one and I said, it doesn't
matter. So I went up andI stood to him, face to face,
and as the closer I got,the more light was absorbed and I
could not see anything. It waslike standing in front of a black wall
in the dark. So I stoodthere. I was showing no fear.

(43:16):
Do not show fear, Do notshow any emotion other than let it know
that it means absolutely nothing to you. It is not anything to be afraid
of. Stand your ground. Iturned my back on it, and I
walked away, and I woke up. And what happened after that was I

(43:38):
was pulled out of that into anotherportal, and this time it was in
a room. It was almost lookedlike a room that and the walls kind
of looked like it might have beenin like a dungeon or something like that.
But there was a three dimensional imagethat was kind of floating in the

(44:00):
in the you know, like acouple of feet off the ground, as
if it was a three dimensional screen, but there was no screen, there
was no electronics, and it wasshowing me what that being looked like,
and it showed me a reptilian beingwith two legs and two arms. Well,
not one time in my life Ihad ever believed or seen or anything

(44:22):
any reptilian images or anything of thatnature, because I had never experienced them.
And the only reason I would evengive any weight to that is the
fact that I had never been liedto in these portals before. And I
knew there was something behind it,It just wasn't showing me what it really
looked like. So I believe that'sprobably what it was. But it was,

(44:44):
you know, like I said,they can make any images that they
want to appear as when you're ontheir plane, which is on the astral
plane. So I wasn't surprised whenI saw that it wasn't that, you
know, I mean, they leaveit up to your imagination to hopefully,
you know, pull up the worstfearing thing you could imagine by showing you

(45:05):
just the darkness, and then youwould just go off from there. But
it didn't affect me, do youSo just a question. A lot of
this stuff I think comes from ourunconscious, right. I'm not saying that
it's not real at all. Asa matter of fact, I sometimes I
wonder if it's more real than whatwe're dealing with here. But the thing
is is, if I look atThomas Campbell's expirations, or William Buelman's or

(45:30):
Robert Monroe's, it seems like everybody'sout of body experiences are quite different,
right. And I'm not saying thatnone of these All of these guys did
run up against boundaries and certain thingsand beings like that. But it seems
like, could it be and I'monly asking this, could it be the

(45:53):
fact that our beliefs are creating someof this stuff, or maybe our beliefs
are revealing more of this stuff,because you know, there are people that
have traveled out a body for yearsand years and wrote tons of books on
it, like Monroe's one of them, will be Onlment's another one. And
I'm not find in parallels with thisstuff other than the initial experiences of the

(46:16):
out of body states, right,or what happens when we go out of
body and some of the blocks thathappened, you know, and like William
would say things like you just haveto command your way through if there's certain
blocks, but he never would talkabout I don't think he ever talked about
portals or reptilians or anything like that. So I'm just wondering, like,

(46:37):
do you think it only affects certainpeople or is it just an awareness thing
or how is all that working?Okay, all right, let me say
that. And I realized this backin the eighties. You're going to have
people that are manipulating whatever they're writing, and it's for a reason. Okay,

(46:59):
just to say, way is whenyou run into the manipulation in the
astral it's the same way on hereon Earth. You have corruption, you
have manipulation. Now, we aremanipulated on Earth all the time. So
why would you think that it couldn'thappen in there? The metaphysical field in
itself, It's been manipulated for decadesnow. When I first started this whole

(47:22):
out of body thing, I wouldread a book. Oh they have astral
sex, you have all this stuff. That's all bs, you know,
for somebody to even write that,and they published it. And so what
I do is I find people andI listen to what they have to say
based upon, you know, theinformation that they present, and I have

(47:45):
to make a judgment call because Ican see if things are you know,
relevant or they're not. I haveto look at things based on relevancy.
Now, when I have an experiencein a dream and I'm dreaming, that's
one thing. But what I'm consciouslyaware, because I'm consciously there, then
the manipulation is much different. Soas it's at that point when you're consciously

(48:12):
aware, Yeah, I can saythat that maybe if you you know,
you've got all these fears. Youmight be manifesting something on that plane,
but that's not the problem. Idon't have fear of it. I'm not
projecting that. And once you havea good grasp of of of how you're
thinking and feeling, then you understandwhen you run up against something, it

(48:37):
doesn't fit the narrative. It doesn'tfit. So if I was going into
these different if I was having thisfear based issue when I go onto these
meet these other beings, then Iwould probably be seeing dragons or bad people.
You know, I don't project it. So what happens is I've been

(48:59):
doing this for so long that whatI have to do is when I'm consciously
there, my focus one hundred percentis on the experience. I don't think
of anything other than my focus onwhat is happening in front of me,
what is happening around me, andwhat is the information so that I can

(49:21):
retain it and bring it back.That's my that's my only goal, to
share that information and to understand howthis works. So I'm not bringing all
this baggage with me. And I'vebeen doing it for so long that if
there was a pattern of that nature, I would have picked it up a
long time ago, and I wasnever scared of anything. Sure, I'm
not necessarily talking about you're saying.I'm just saying like there, So there's

(49:46):
like two camps in this thing.I haven't found an in between yet.
So there's people that are saying,look, you're only consciously trapped here because
you're consciously trapped here because you haven'twoke up yet. And then there's this
other camp that's saying, well,you're being manipulated and imprisoned on purpose,
right, Like, this is whatI'm getting at here. We can all

(50:07):
be warriors and not afraid of stuffor even like you say, like you
just said, when Thomas Campbell,when he goes into the astral realm,
he doesn't give into his emotions orhis thoughts or his belief He just simply
observes. And that's all he does, you know, because it keeps him
there longer when you do that.Right, So okay, let me let
me ask you this question. Letme ask you this question. What do

(50:28):
you think? What do you whatdo you think personally? And and try
to back it up with some withsome experiences so that you, you know,
have a better understanding of what yourthoughts are on that. What do
I think personally based on my experience, I think at least half of what
you experience in your life is yourown beliefs also and your own experience.

(50:52):
Yeah, your own experience is theother half. Is there real manipulation going
on out there? Absolutely everywhere yougo, there's manipulation and agenda's going on,
There's and it. You know,I used to live in this world
of oh my god, it breaksmy heart. It breaks my heart,
It breaks my heart, you know. But at this point it's like,

(51:13):
well, if whether you're human orsome out of body being or whatever,
if you want to be a manipulativeperson, right, then that's our being
or whatever. That's your thing.I'm only looking for like authenticity, right.
So, But but what you're saying, like, I do experience manipulation
everywhere I go, I'm just notas angry at it as I used to

(51:35):
be. I've reached my peak ofanger about it. You know. Well,
then that what I'm trying to portrayis obviously we're all manipulation. We
have a high level of corruption aroundus. Yeah. Yeah, so we
all have a good idea on wherethis world is going and and the the

(51:58):
way for us to be able toconserve our freedoms. To me, the
conservation of freedom, a freedom ofindividuality is probably the most important thing.
We should all have the rights tobe free and do whatever we choose to
do, as long as it doesn'tinfringe on the rights of others. That's
a pretty simple way to look atlife. So when I look at things

(52:23):
and I understand, and I cansee what's happening, a high level of
manipulation that's creating this, and weare and I've seen a lot of what
happens that we have the ability todo. So when I look at it,
I think, Okay, yeah,we're being stunted. We're doing this.

(52:45):
And I've read a ton of stuffon yoga, I've read a lot
of metaphysical stuff over the years.I've just like had a ton of information,
and I can see holes in alot of it, and anything,
even the religious backing, a lotof that came down and is filtered through

(53:05):
and it's changed over the years.So we don't even know our own history,
the reality, we don't even knowwhat it is. So everything we
get is been regurgitated and and we'vebeen programmed, so that usually what's happening
is the mass of people is undera belief system that is totally incorrect.

(53:30):
But since the majority believe it,if you're a minority in the system,
then you're either ridiculed or you're notbelieved. To me, I'm not looking
good or bad. I'm looking atreal truth. That's what matters. Because
I'm with you. You can't getto that right through. Your own experience

(53:52):
is the only thing that's going totell you the truth, right, your
perception and your perspective, And that'swhy I tell everybody question everything, and
then you need to experience it foryourself. Now, not everybody's going to
have the same experiences, but weall have this level of ability that we
can tap and we can access.But the only way you're going to find

(54:12):
it is to look within. NowI'm not saying look within and ask somebody
else a guide or whatever. Lookwithin. It is there. You will
get answers you but you might notlike the answers that you get. Yeah,
I get what you're saying. Yeahthat makes sense. Yeah, because
I mean I have no doubts thatI see what you're saying. Like something

(54:37):
had to be manipulated. You haveto have in order to create an illusion
or a belief or a perception tobegin with, you have to have some
form of manipulation, you know forsure, and that's compacted here big time,
you know, in the Western mysterieslike they No, I'm not talking
about all of them. I'm justsaying specifically, like the Combalists teach that

(54:58):
the earth and that kind of correspondswhat you what. What's what you said
is that the earth is just asubset of the astral realm. It's like
a like, ah, I'm tryingto think of a cult de sack basically
a denser cult de sack of what'sactually in the astual realm and coming down
into dense form, you know.But and then again, if that were

(55:20):
the case, we can't perceive allthis stuff that you're seeing or that I've
experienced in our human body. Sowe kind of have to go out of
our body to perceive some other things. Right. So I mean, if
if if this is available, andsince it is available, why is it
being hitting it? Why is itbeing so so controlled? Why is it
being so covered up? So ifyou're, if you're the last thing I

(55:45):
want for people is for them notto be able to experience it for themselves,
because if you run into misinformation,it's only going to put you off
on another path that's gonna waste howmuch time in your life. So getting
information out to people on a truthfulbasis is more difficult than it looks are

(56:07):
what it seems. I offer myinformation for free. People can listen to
it, they can make their ownjudgment calls, and at that point they
can determine, you know, whetherthey like it or not. That's up
to them. I'm not forcing anythingon it. I don't have any sponsors,
I don't answer to anybody. It'smyself. But if you care about
your family, yourself, and futuregenerations, then we all need to stand

(56:30):
up just like our uh our ourpast generations did for us. And I'm
not being I'm not saying grab agun. I'm saying becoming become aware of
what's inside of you. Yeah,exactly the way I do. I think
if we were I mean, Ithink if we were less afraid to explore

(56:51):
ourselves consciously and authentically, we couldchange things. But we've got there's so
much focus on how to change thingsmaterially when there's so much deception in the
material world. Where you're not goingto do that. You have to change
your awareness first, right, youknow, Well, that's I bring it
up. Both of the books thatI wrote are real short, like twenty

(57:12):
five pages. I made them supershort. I wanted to just put the
information in there and get to getit to the people. Now, what
we have to do is we haveto separate ourselves from the game. It's
the drama, it's all the bsthat we deal with on a daily basis.
If we step back and understand,once you step out of your comfort
zone, then you will begin tosee what's really happening. But when you're

(57:36):
too focused on the political you know, opponents and all this other stuff,
that's the whole purpose of getting youin the game and keeping you there,
because what they keep doing is movingthe shiny object. There's another shiny object
over here. Oh, no,focus over here. There's a war over
here. They're stealing money over here, They're doing this over here. It's
all to keep you completely enthralled intheir game. You have to step out

(58:02):
of it to realize what you're capableof, and what I mean capable of.
You're capable of no fear, You'recapable of understanding that it's a game.
Once you understand that it's a game, you're like, why would I
fear this? This is a totaljoke. I don't even know why I
bought into it in the first place. But it's so psychologically uh strong that

(58:29):
it keeps sucking you back in likea giant vacuum. It's going to suck
you right back into the end ofthe crap because something's going to happen.
You get sucked back into it.And then fear fear is our is our
our is our motivation. So whathappens is we're we want to be independent,
but we're dependent on food and shelterand and cars and gas and all

(58:52):
that kind of stuff. Once we'redependent on other things, that's why we're
in the physical then we're not independent. So the more dependencies we have,
the less independence we will experience.Once we can step away and say,
okay, what really matters in mylife, it's myself, my spouse,

(59:12):
my children and their children and futuregenerations, you know, at that point
you understand in life what really matters, right, everything else is just noise
when it comes down to it.Because if we do lose our freedom,
you won't have any of that stuff. Anyways, it'll all disappear and you'll
be on toward under and once youlose something, it's very difficult to get

(59:37):
it back. Maybe I could askyou this question, and then we'll have
to take the break at the topof the hour here, but maybe I
could ask you this. You know, I'm trying to explain to people what
you're trying to explain to them,But it's hard to explain to people,
well, how the hell is likegetting out of body or having lucid dreams
and all this other stuff going tochange things in my practical world. Right?

(01:00:00):
People ask me that all the time, and I have the hardest time
explaining it to them. And Ithink maybe the answer is and you can
probably help me, or this iswell, once you experience that stuff,
then you can It's one thing totalk about the game, right, but
then you actually experience the game.It's a whole new awareness when you experience

(01:00:22):
something rather than just talking about ityou know once, And that's why I
always say it's your experiences that setyour perception and everything else. So if
you're intrigued by out of body experiencesand you're finally successful in it, then
at that point. Nobody can takeyou away. You can't unlearn what you've

(01:00:44):
seen, and you can't learn whatyou haven't seen. So what you'll do
is you'll get to the point whereyou'll say, Wow, I am really
more. I understand that I'm morethan just this meat filled body walking around
Earth. I'm way more than that. What more is there? Well,

(01:01:04):
there's a lot more out there.The more that I learn and the more
that I experience, I realize it'sjust a tiny bit. I'm scratching the
surface because there's so much out there, and it's an uphill climb, it's
an uphill battle, and it's aggravating. But once you set your mind to
do something and you decide I amnot letting anything in my way, I'm

(01:01:25):
going to succeed. And that's whatwe have to do. When it comes
down to what we're dealing with onEarth. There's a small amount of people
that are enacting laws and rules andeverything to take our rights away. Now,
the only way that they can makethis work is if we assist in
it. Because if you think aboutit, every one of us does every

(01:01:50):
job on this whole entire Earth,and it's only the top management that's causing
the problem. But if we don'tfollow the we don't follow the rules,
or we don't follow their orders,then nothing happens. We don't want to
take away our own freedoms, sowhy will we allow them to do it
to us? It's not them doingit, it's us doing it. So

(01:02:12):
we have to understand where we areat, and we have to understand the
power that we have. And onceyou begin to understand what you are capable
of, then you will become fearedby the ones that are causing this whole
thing because they will understand that youare walking away from their game. You're

(01:02:34):
not going to follow the rules becauseyou have your own moral compass and you're
not going to step aside and notdo things and do things against what your
morals are. Everybody has a moralcompass, and that's what you set to
limit yourself to. The you know, you won't allow anything to happen or

(01:02:54):
to do anything away from that moralcompass because that's what you have in early
and you'll get tested on it too. I've noticed that, like you know,
I got to a point of understandingthis and manifestation in my life and
good things started coming into my life. But some of those good things were
a bit manipulative, right, andthey started testing my moral objectivity, right,

(01:03:15):
like, you know, well,is it is that really this?
Or this really that? Is thatreally a sacred thing to you? And
it's all perspective. And then youget to where you're in your mind and
you're like, I don't know what'swhat, And now your mind's playing tricks
on you because you didn't follow yourspirit or your heart or your soul or
that thing that you told yourself.I'm not letting anything get in my way.

(01:03:35):
This is what I want, youknow, right, Like this is
you understand what I'm saying, andthen your mind. But you need to
know your limitations when it comes downto what you're willing to do and what
you're willing to do, what you'rewilling to allow others to do to you.
You know, it's like being inan abusive relationship. After you've been
in that abusive relationship for years ordecades, you don't want to see it,

(01:04:00):
don't want to hear about it.Yeah, you want nothing to do.
If something happens and you're out ofthat abusive relationship, you're like,
why in the hell would ever putup with that I'm out of it.
Now I can see what other peoplesaw and I wouldn't listen to them.
And so I'm walked away from thatabusive relationship and now I feel like a
new person. Now. I knowI had the power, but while I
was in it, and while Iwas under the spell, I couldn't do

(01:04:21):
anything about it. I wouldn't allowmyself right exactly. All right, So
we're going to take a break andthen we'll be right back and stay with
us. Don't go anywhere. Wegot more to talk about here with Mike.
We are back with Mike Martin,author of my dark explorations, Portals,
Gateways, and astral and I talkabout your other book that you wrote

(01:04:44):
too, because well, that's wherewe left off, was kind of like
this authenticity freedom mentality. You wrotea book kind of about that too,
right, They just released, Yeah, The Spiritualist Manifesto, A Guide to
Freedom. And what I did,I just kind of went through and briefly
just explained some of my experiences,how it came about, and the fact

(01:05:05):
that what I found and how peoplecan basically get theirselves free from the daily
manipulation of the game was what Icall it, right, and then I
also list some some ways that theycan they can look at things and how

(01:05:26):
they can understand and experience and reallyget people to understand that they have so
much available to them when they beginto step out of what they think is
their real life. You know,I see ourselves as like a driver in
our our physical body is like acar. You know, you're not the
car. You're not the car.You're the driver, and you're the one

(01:05:49):
that's that's leading yourself through all this. So everybody seems to affixiate on their
body when it's not really the youthat you think you are. You know,
you're the inside and your consciousness isthe one that you're moving from place
to place in order to make theseconnections. And that's what I use it
for. So yeah, and yourother bodies are there and you can utilize

(01:06:12):
those as well. But in orderto find truth, it's not just about
getting yourself out of body or notjust about you know, connecting with other
places. It's about understanding where you'reat, you're real you. And once
you begin to do make that connection, then you can see that we have

(01:06:36):
an energy field and we have energyavailable. Now when I make these portal
connections if my energy level is low, which I didn't know anything about it
before I started having these, thenit's less likely that I'm going to have
a clear or a long term portalconnection because as I do it more and
more, maybe have a couple anda couple of days in a row,

(01:06:59):
then my energy level will be alittle bit depleted, and then if I
wait a couple of days, thingswill be back to normal and it works
out well. So we do havean energy level available and it's most likely
been stunted because of our low levelconnection with our source. Now, when
I say our source, you canlook at it in any way you want,
but it's an energy source. We'relike small suns. We have our

(01:07:25):
own energy and we now spiritually speaking, I'm not talking about our physical bodies,
but we're like a small sun.We have our own way of creating
energy. We have our own energysource. But since we're we have this
heavy insulated blanket over us, fullof radio waves and magnetic fields, it's
really difficult for us to become whowe are and see who we are.

(01:07:46):
And that's the whole point behind it. You know, we've always been told,
oh, you're on Earth, sothat you're going to learn do this.
That's bs we're not here for tolearn, We're here to be.
We're here to produce low level vibrationfields which are fed upon by a lot
of the lower astral The lot ofthe manipulation that we experience is within the

(01:08:06):
astral level, and that works itsway down to here to earth. So
there's a lot of ways to manipulatepeople. In order for that to happen,
it's by you know, having thema second, manipulating them by their
dependency on everything else. And there'sa lot of different ways to do that,
and that's why people are getting manipulatedand supporting this this drive. Usually

(01:08:31):
it's like when people's like you saidearlier, in people's comfort level get messed
with or they're facing with the unknownor something like that, they just tend
to back up and run away orhide or play let's I'll go back and
play the game. I don't wantto go that far, you know,
right. I mean, at somepoint it's really actually exciting leaving your comfort

(01:08:51):
level, because at first it's scary, people fear because they're doing that.
Then they realize, hey, there'sso much more out there that I'm not
experiencing I've just gotten into the monotonyof following the same program over and over
and over again. Then they startto realize once you realize what your capabilities
are. And I keep saying thisbecause it's really true, and that's why

(01:09:14):
I want people to step out oftheir comfort zone and to experience it for
themselves, because that's the only waythat you're going to know and understand what's
really out there. Yeah, forsure, I'm man see, I think
you and I think a lot onthe same level. It's I think what
breaks my heart the most is findingpeople that kind of understand that you know

(01:09:35):
as soon as maybe But I meanthen again, like a part of this
journey is vibrating your vibration, Iguess, and finding the people that are
going to come to you because youare vibrating this kind of energy. I
mean, you wouldn't have found thisshow if I wasn't vibrating that kind of
energy or expressing it or creating itin a certain way. Like so,

(01:09:57):
like I don't I am. Sodo you think there can be like an
imbalance because I'm so less concerned aboutthe material world than most people are.
Really, because I do see thegame, right, Like there's money,
you know, jobs, your health, health is important, but then there's
like relationships and all this stuff islike I do believe we can create our

(01:10:18):
own reality. So why are weeven worried about it? You know what
I mean? Like, why arewe scared of any of this stuff?
That's the way I look at it. If something happens, we just create
something different. We just adapt andadjust and move to a different thing.
But you know, at this point, at this point, a lot of
times in the metaphysical world, theysay, oh, we're all one consciousness,

(01:10:42):
just do what you want. It'llall end up in the end,
It'll all end up in the youknow, a good need. Like yeah,
yeah, right, Well, ifI was going to say I was
going in beda country, I'm youknow, I belonged to some country or
belong to some being world and I'mgoing to take over a country, the
first thing that I would do isI'd infiltrate those people and tell them,

(01:11:02):
oh, you don't need to worryabout anything, just be peaceful. And
you know, yeah, So whatyou want to do is you want to
make the most benign people that youcan have, the ones that aren't going
to get into conflict and you're goingto do that. So what we're what
we're being told and what we're beingtold to believe, it's garbage. I

(01:11:28):
think it's a new age sigh ofHonestly, well, yeah, it's been
going on for years. And whatthey do is they just slowly keep it,
keep feeding it, and you know, and then all the people that
are playing along, well, ofcourse they're going to publicize them and they're
going to you know, they're goingto be best sellers or whatever. They're
going to. You know, they'regoing to go out and speeches and stuff.
What you want to understand is justthat where you stand in all of

(01:11:51):
this, you can say, well, I really don't need to worry about
it because you know it's not real. Well, at some point it Israel.
What I'm what I'm what I'm tryingto say is, if you are
this spiritual being with a tremendous amountof power and energy, why would you
keep putting yourself in this situation orwhy would you not try to get yourself

(01:12:13):
out of this situation? Exactly?I'm the type of guy that wants to
know how it works and and howit functions and why why it does that
way. And that's why what broughtme here. I knew as a kid
that there was a lot of thingsthat just didn't seem to equally, just
didn't seem to equal out. Iknew something was wrong, but I didn't

(01:12:35):
know what it was. And asI get farther into it, I realized
what it is. But I stilldon't understand the whole aspect of it.
But I do know when I'm beingbullshitted and when I'm not. And and
so the harder you work to tryto help others understand and figure their own
experiences out, the harder it isagainst you. And I've seen my own

(01:13:00):
backlash, But I don't care becauseI'm gonna keep going. And that's just
what I'm gonna do. Because I'mnot asking anything from people. I'm just
saying, apply yourself, find outfor yourself. I'm not trying to sell
you anything. I just want youto find yourself so that you can understand

(01:13:25):
what's happening. Yeah, that'd bethe one thing that I would do too,
Like, I'd be like, soif we are these massively powerful beings,
I would say that we are onit, you know, to an
extent in humanity like I would tellthem, We'll just sit back and let
the universe will provide everything. Youhear, things like divine timing or whatever,

(01:13:45):
or just all kinds of crazy thingsI've heard in the New Age community
which causes people not to act orgo after their heart or listen to their
hearts, or go after what theyreally want or ask questions, you know,
Like you said, conflict avoidance.Conflict avoidance to me, I mean,
there are times when it needs tohappen, but conflict avoidance first and

(01:14:08):
foremost before anything, is the worstthing for us. Consciously, I'd rather
be in a conflicted truth than acomfortable illusion all the time. I just
would. I would rather be there, you know, Like I call this
a psycho logical war, because whatyou're doing is they're busy convincing you what

(01:14:30):
you can't do, and you needto understand what you can do. And
here lies one of the points wedon't understand in globally, we don't understand
our capabilities what they do. Theyalso understand that once we begin to realize

(01:15:00):
our capabilities, then it's game over. If enough of us band together to
combat this, then it's all over. But the problem with that is if
you have eighty five percent of thepopulation that is still under the spell of

(01:15:23):
this and fifteen percent get them outof it, they're still going to go
back to the same system because peopleare you know, they do want to
stay in the comfort zone and theydon't want to see anything that they don't
want to see. So I don'tcall it waking up. I call it

(01:15:43):
self realization and spiritualization, because weare spirits. We aren't human, we
never were human. We're just puthere and placed in here, and we're
trapped in here. It's I mean, if if if you wanted to run
the best prison, you'd wipe everybody'smemory before you put them in there,

(01:16:03):
make them follow all these stupid rules, they wouldn't know any better. I
mean, that's the perfect prison,right yeah. Or I would tell people
that here's another thing too, backto that out of body stuff, right.
I do. Like my mission isto get everybody out of body.
The people that are interested in it. I want to help them, and
I have helped them, right,you know, I was given the gift

(01:16:25):
of a voice. I can guidepeople to the vibratory state. I can
help them relax, I can doall kinds of stuff but there's all these
I'm just curious of what all thesepeople say, Well, what if it's
the it's immediately the fear, Wellwhat if someone enters my body when I
got out of body? Or whatif I meet a being or demons this

(01:16:46):
and demons that? And it's likethese there is a massive fear barrier.
People are very afraid of what theydon't know because I don't think they have
the internal resources to face something youknow, that they don't know about,
right, Like, I'm not surethat like you and I could do that,
but I think there are people thatcannot, Like they need to know

(01:17:08):
everything first and then kind of makeup their mind if it's safe enough.
Right, And this is the problemto me, Right, you know,
you've got to have some internal resourcesso you can get yourself out of any
situation, whether you're in the bodyor out. I suggest that because there's
everybody at some point in their lifehas stepped out of the comfort zone for

(01:17:29):
one reason or another. Whether itbe a mother who's afraid of something but
she has to say her child,or you know, somebody's had a problem
and they need to help somebody else, and they will step across that barrier
in order in order to help them. Put yourself in the in the in
the mindset that when you step acrossand do something that's different or maybe a

(01:17:56):
little bit uncomfortable, you're going tobe learning from it. If if this
was some relatively dangerous feat, thenyou're not going to be able to do
that. It's not gonna it's notgoing to flow through you. You're just
not going to do it. Andand understand that life is not about fear,
it's about understanding. You know,at one point people feared fire,

(01:18:17):
I'm sure until they understood how howit worked. Mainly p Hall said,
they feared the sun wasn't going tocome up again, you know, or
something. I mean, your carcan be a dangerous weapon, but you
don't fear it when you're driving it. You know, you understand how it
works and you understand how to becautious when you're driving. Anything can be

(01:18:38):
fearful in life, but you needto look at it with the perspective that,
Okay, when I understand it,then I'm going to move ahead and
forward. But don't always first thingfocus on the fear. Focus on what
you want to learn, what youwant to experience. So and don't know,

(01:19:00):
listen to everybody else. Just tryit. That's exactly right, man,
Just yeah, just experience it ifit is a thing, right,
Like, once we cross a massivelyuncomfortable barrier and then we Like for me,
my mind was like traveling alone,right, going miles thousands of miles
away from my home and family rightalone, meeting new people stuff like that,

(01:19:25):
Like that was just crazy to me, Like why would I do that?
I'm safe. I could die outthere and no one cares. And
I did feel all these fears rightlike when I left home. And this
is probably stupid for people to travelall the time, but for me,
it wasn't you know. So whenI experienced all that, I was like,
wow, this is it gives youmore of a confidence internally and spiritually

(01:19:48):
too, so I think when youdo go to face spiritual things, you
can battle them, you know,right. I mean, we weren't meant
to sit in one place and bestagnant. I mean, that's not our
that's not what we're built for.You know. We're built for experiences,
and we're stunted here. You know, we're very limited in our specific bodies,

(01:20:11):
but we're not about just sitting aroundletting other people do things for us
and make decisions for us. Weneed to make our own decisions. We
need to run our own lives.It's not if you're allowing somebody else to
make your decisions and run your life, then you are living their life.
Yeah, And it's sad when youlove somebody too. Right, You love

(01:20:35):
like whether it's your children, yourpartner, whatever, and you love them
and you can tell that they can'tmake up their own minds for them.
They may sometimes they may act likethey can think for themselves and make up
their own minds, but if youwatch what happens in their life once they
get afraid or they don't know,it's better that someone else kind of leads
the way. Right. And here'sthe thing. If there's a fear mike

(01:20:59):
that I have, I'm afraid ofthose people because to me, those people
mess everything up right because they don'thave the ability to be to make a
decision. You could make a wrongdecision. It's okay, you can adapt
if you make a wrong decision.But just to sit in stagnancy and fear
or I don't know, someone tellme what to do kind of thing,

(01:21:20):
right is a very bad place evenRobert Monroe said that in his books.
In his first book, I don'tknow if you remember it, but he
said, the lowest energetic, vibratorialplace you can be is when this energy
of uh, there's an energy thatwants change, and then there's an energy
that is afraid of change and doesn'twant things to say this, you know,

(01:21:40):
wants things to say the same.And these two energies meet. And
if you look in physical reality,it's everywhere right, these two energies meet.
As long as a decision is made, energy can flow one way or
the other. You can adapt later, but stay in here and holding things
become chaotic, things get It's likea downward spiral. Think about the election
when the two you know, likeparties are fighting. Nothing that people are

(01:22:05):
killing each other during that time,you know, or any anything in life
when these two energies come, Iwant change. I want things to stay
the same. And it's not thedecision, it's negative. It's the stagnancy
of not making the decision right thatkeeps us in a low vibratory vibration.
People are me are are afraid tomake a mistake, and mistakes what you

(01:22:28):
learn. And I didn't have anyguidance, and I would run into situations
where I said I would rather bemoving forward in the wrong direction than to
stop and not do anything. Yeah, me too, Man, I can't.
And when you're going to you're goingto have time, you're going to
I mean, I thought about,what if it's the wrong side that's leading
me. What if they're training meto do something for him? You'll figure

(01:22:50):
it out. Yeah, And Ifigured, okay, well then, you
know, and I went through thesetimes where I just was like questioning everything.
I had to come to a conclusion. I had to come to a
conclusion. Which way was I goingto go. You know, I'm this
far into it. I'm not goingto utilize that as my decision making,
but I'm going to have to look. I have to reassess everything at this

(01:23:13):
point. There was a couple ofinstances that I ran into where I seriously
had to stop and think. Andit was months. I was months into
it, and I had to gothrough every single instance to determine whether I
was following my moral compass, whetherI was doing what was right or what
was wrong. And once I onceI came to that conclusion, I had

(01:23:34):
to put the rest out of mymind, I'd made a decision and this
is the way I'm going and thatwas it at that point, no turning
back. You go on with whatbecause you're utilizing when you make a decision.
You have so much information available toyou at a time at that time,
and you do the best you canwith what you have available. So

(01:23:57):
you can't look back two years fromnow and say, well, I should
have made a different decision. No, because you only had that information.
Two years later you might have moreinformation. You couldn't have made that decision
back then with that information because younever had it. Sure, So you
have to do the best of whatyou can while you're at that certain point
in life and move on. Andif you made the wrong decision, it's

(01:24:20):
not like, let's say you makethe wrong decision that can still be fixed,
right, whether it's jobs, whateveryou're doing, relationships, whatever.
I've seen people make the wrong decisionand fix it later or whatever. Right,
So it's not even the that's mypoint is, it's not the decision
that's the problem. It's the stagnancy. And you know, when he was

(01:24:42):
doing these explorer projects, he figuredthis out like it even felt bad in
his body when he would get toplaces or things and didn't know what to
do or make a decision, andit was like the lowest vibration and fear
starts to set in and things getcrazy. Right, So I'm asking you,
like, say someone goes out ofbody, and I think the out

(01:25:04):
of body thing could be training usor vice versa to figure this out.
I don't know. But say someonegoes out of body and they've witnessed something
like a portal or a being orsomething that they're not familiar with. Well,
the way to deal with that isyou have to I mean not to
freak out or anything, but youhave to observe and make a decision.
Right, So do you think we'rebeing trained for something higher? Not like

(01:25:27):
a learning ground, but more likebecause that's what William Bielman told me one
time. He said, what betterplace to realize how consciousness works than a
low density atmosphere of cause and effectthat has a time release. When you
do a cause and an effect happensright later, versus the astral realm,
cause and effect can happen instantly themoment you think about it, you know,
So what are your thoughts on that? Well, there's a plane that

(01:25:54):
it's even more direct, and that'sthe mental plane, which is above the
astral. I think there's thirteen levelsof the astral and the mental planes above
that, and that's where your soultravels really. Okay, so those are
instantaneous, they're they're faster than youcan imagine when you're on the astral.
Yeah, you can. You canpotentially meet some of the things that you
might manifest on there based upon ifyou got yourself to that point and if

(01:26:18):
you still got those those issues,you're probably going to see them. But
a lot of people that are reallyunstable when it comes to that, they
probably won't make it there unless youknow, I mean on the average,
because people have to work to getthere, and and if they're really afraid
of it, then they might noteven get to that point. But whatever
you do when you get somewhere onthe astral, you have to think about

(01:26:40):
it as if you're in a foreigntown and you don't know anybody, So
any interaction you have is going tobe just gather data. Look at it
as if you're just a stranger ina town and you're going to see the
sites and you want to experience itand enjoy yourself enjoy the right right,
that's what that's the way. That'sthe mentality. Now, if somebody offers

(01:27:03):
to, you know, put youthrough a portal or something like that,
I wouldn't do it because you don'tknow. You've never built a relationship with
this with this personality, so youhave no background on them. And like
I said, they know everything aboutyou when you step out, so they're
going to tell you and they're goingto groom you. You know, they
want somebody that's going to follow them, and they figure if you're listening to

(01:27:28):
them, then you won't be outlooking for truth on your own. So
they're going to bite all of yourtime and feed you information that's most likely
useless, you know, junk,because they're just going to keep you occupied
and that's their hold. And mostof those beings on there are autonomous,
so they basically can take any shapeform and do whatever they needed to do

(01:27:50):
in order to to have maintained thatdamage control that they're there for. Do
you think so, Do you thinkthere's other collective agendas in that or like
all these different beings have their ownlittle agendas, so to speak, whatever
that may be. I think mostof the most of the decision making process

(01:28:10):
is based on the astral and itfilters down and I do believe some of
the beings are are multi level.They can they can work on the astral
and they can work on the Earth. I mean, that's the whole purpose
behind it. They can. They'remulti level. Now, when I say
they work on multi level, wesee less than one percent of the visual

(01:28:30):
spectrum on Earth. So there couldbe being standing right next to you right
now and you have absolutely no ideathat they were there. Sure now,
when people say they wake up whenthey see beings, oh yeah, they're
probably there, you know, becausethey have the ability to you know,
you can see them at certain timeswhen you're waking up so or even when
you're in an astral dream or whatever. But they're there and you just can't

(01:28:54):
see them. So they're probably movingin the different realms. Because an astral
plane is basically a plane superimposed overthis plane. It's basically right on top
of it, and so it's themental plane. But they're just layered on
top of each other. They're inthe same exact space, so and even
a lot of the dimensions they're righthere. They say, oh, we're

(01:29:15):
going across space time, space andtime are completely different when it comes down
to away from the three dimensional world, So we're dealing with something on a
whole completely different level. So theycould be walking around us right now,
you'd have no concept of it.And there's a reason why we have this
limited visual ability because we can bemanipulated like people are seeing. You know,

(01:29:38):
let me use Bigfoot for an example. I don't know this for a
fact, but I can probably figureout that Bigfoot. You can control is
visibility or control moving within realms,are moving in and out of a visual
because all of a sudden it disappearsdog Man, all these different things that
you see. What's happening is they'reable to to switch between different realms,

(01:30:01):
and they're doing that to keep everybodyoccupied. Like if everybody's worried about how
the pyramids were built, or youknow, seeing dog Man or seeing Bigfoot,
we're just going to be running aroundin circles trying to find something that
can just go out of our eyesight. It could be right still, right
there next to you, but youjust don't see it because it's out of
your visual spectrum. So so thisis a great question, all right,

(01:30:23):
because I have people in this communitycome to me about you know, what
do you call it? These things? Dog man, bigfoot, all this
stuff. I'm saying, look,man, I've heard stories where people are
having wars with dog men and bigfoot, and I just don't see it,
right, Like, I don't tome, I'm not like it's it's hard

(01:30:43):
to get to cause people are saying, well, you you say you can
get out of body and stuff,but you don't believe in like dog men
fighting battles on whatever. And it'slike, I'm not polar. I'm telling
you about an out of body experiencebecause I've experienced it. I'm not talking
about things I haven't experienced, right, So how much do you think that
like affects us, the idea thatwe want to believe something that may not

(01:31:03):
necessarily be true, right, Well, it's always. When I was younger,
I was always interested in the paranormaland that sort of thing, you
know, I was a kid.I read some of the books and stuff
like that. And that's why whenwhen the Timeline book series came out and
I read Robert Monroe's book, Ireally was intrigued. Obviously because I was

(01:31:24):
already involved in I didn't know it, but I've always admitted in you know,
really interested in it all. AndI think the unknown, whether it's
witchcraft or sorcery or all these differentthings people get into because it's an unknown.
We just don't have answers for it. So it was like science at
one time. And even with science, there's a lot of unknowns in there.

(01:31:45):
So there's really people just want totry to find something new. Like
when Lewis and Clark first mapped theUnited States, you know, they went
out on their own. It wasa it was a huge challenge, but
they took it all because it wasa mystery to them, right, And
now we don't really have a lotof mysteries on Earth. We do,
but we don't. They look toother things in order to study them and

(01:32:09):
try to figure them out. Imean, people are intrigued by it,
sure, but but you maybe Ishould have asked, dude, what do
you personally believe about these things?Bigfoot, dog man? It's kind of
off topic, but maybe there's somethingastrally there, you know, maybe they
are you know, it's I don'tI don't question that they're not true because
there's been a lot of evidence thatpeople have seen him and stuff like that,

(01:32:31):
and I'm not calling anybody a liar, but what I'm saying is,
from my viewpoint, it could beeasily explained by them having the ability to
go between our visual spectrum in andout, walk in and out of it.
Because you see a couple of huntersand they're like, oh, yeah,
watch this guy. You know,I'm gonna go. I'm gonna he's
gonna see me walk across the roadand then I want to disappear and I'll

(01:32:55):
be standing right next to him andhe's like, Oh, the thing's all
gone. They probably laughing their assoff there, probably like you know,
what a joke you know, Imean, who knows what kind of attitude,
you know, and they can makethemselves look like whatever they want to.
Maybe it's a demon, maybe it'san angel. Whatever. They got
to be laughing their asses off atus, thinking what a bunch of dumb
asses. You know, He's runningaround the damn place looking for us and
we're standing right here, you know, I mean, what kind of other

(01:33:18):
factor would there be other than makingus look like folds are just keeping us
occupied so that we're constantly searching forthe UFO, you know, the spaceship
that just showed up out of nowhereand left and all this kind of stuff.
There's so many things that have happenedthat you just have to think that
it's all part of the show.It's all part of the Dog and Pony's

(01:33:40):
circus. You know. Yeah,they definitely could just be. I mean
because I think about that too,Like what would I do if I was
had the ability to do? Ohyeah, I'd be doing that. I
would toy with people. I'd belike, eh, you know, sure,
I don't want to ruin their livesor anything, but I'm about to
trip this person out watch you know. Yeah, well who wouldn't want to?
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that sometimes too.

(01:34:01):
But remember this man. Remember whenMonroe was he did you ever have to
battle anything? Because, like whenyou read his books, he came across
like little beings that would attach themselvesto him and he's freaking out, trying
to throw him off of him andpraying. And then one time he was
praying so hard that these other beingsthat were around him were saying Lord laughing
at him. Like listen to himpraying to his God and laughing at him.

(01:34:24):
You know, I want to say, I want to I want to
say this, And it's nothing againstRobert Monroe, because I didn't know the
man, and I enjoyed his firstbook, and then when I read these
other two books that were different.What I have to say is his institute
was taken over by a three lettergovernment agency long ago. Do you think
something, that's why I think thisbook's changed. You think it was more

(01:34:45):
than just an experiment, like theytook over the whole thing. Oh,
they took it. They haven't.I'm telling you that's that's exactly what happened.
And I believe that affected his publications, and I don't think it was
his choice. That's interesting thought,because most people tell me that, like
I looked at the Monroe Institute,is just something cool, right that he

(01:35:06):
created and that the CIA and thegovernment. I was going to go there
back in the eighties. I wantedto go there, but at the time
I couldn't afford it. But thenthat three letter agency took it over not
long after that, and I believethat's when things probably started to change.
And and they can't be involved inanything and not and not take it over.

(01:35:27):
So that's that's my thought that it'skind of true. They can't really
everything that they've ever touched, they'vehad to like, you know, control,
control or put there. You know, I hate to even think that,
because I wanted to go to them. When I remember when I talked
to Wesley Streeber, right, oruh, isn't this his name's Wesley Streeber
not stream Yeah? Uh? Heuh told me he had the greatest time

(01:35:54):
there, right, he had aHe started realizing that when he wrote Communion
about the aliens that as he startedhaving these out of body experiences and stuff.
Right, Whitley Streamer, not WesleyStreeber, What am I thinking,
Whitley Streamer, He started realizing thateven these aliens could have something to do
with what you're saying, where theycan come in and out of this realm.
Because a lot of people have thesecrazy experiences when they're in bed or

(01:36:17):
when they're about to transition into sleepor things like that. You know,
it's pretty crazy to think about.Yeah, when I was a kid,
I had these dreams, really nightterrors and stuff like that, and most
of them were involved in me beingabducted by something that I couldn't see.
My eyesight would fade, I couldn'tmove my arms, and ladies I couldn't

(01:36:38):
scream. They would drag me throughmy parents' room and it was like like
it was really happening. I hada lot of that kind of stuff,
and I never could attribute it toanything. I didn't know if it was
you know, it was just somethingthat I experienced. And I can't say
that it was one thing or anotherbecause I don't have any evidence to back
it up. But I'm sure thereare a lot of things that go on

(01:37:00):
that people have no knowledge of,and there is so much misinformation and manipulation
involved in everything that it's hard tofind a base, a ground basis for
you to say, Okay, wellthis is true and we'll go from here.
You know, this is this isthis is the reality of our situation,

(01:37:23):
and we'll go from here. Andthat's why I tell everybody you need
to investigate it and find it yourself, so that you know what even if
you don't know what truth is,if you know what the lies are,
even if you can just pinpoint theuntruths, at some point you will get
to truth. But eliminate all thestuff that isn't serving you or serving us.

(01:37:49):
That makes sense, Yeah, becausesometimes it's it's easier to find the
line than it is to find thetruth, you know exactly, and if
you can eliminate enough lies, thenyou can eventually, you know, it's
like peeling an onion. You getpast all those layers of you know,
of manipulation and lies and insulation thatwe're covered in, and you'll get to
something that you can say. Atleast, and even believing in something that

(01:38:14):
you believe is the truth and itturns out to not be true, at
least you've made a decision, aconscious decision that something fits. And if
you have to reassess it somewhere downthe line and it comes out to not
be the truth, then you'll reassessit and find something else. But at
least you're making the attempt to dothat, and most people will either be

(01:38:36):
too lazy or too complacent to decideto even do this. That's true,
That's totally true. How much doyou think that your willpower affects your ability
to do this? I mean,we talked about it earlier. I meant
to ask you more on this subject. But when you said it that when
I try to do something, Iput my mind to it, I let

(01:38:57):
nothing stop me. Well, that'sexactly how I had the out of body
experience. I was. I wasalmost obsessed with making sure that I accomplished
this thing right. And then whenyou said that, I realized, well,
pretty much anything we become totally focusedon or put our will into.
I guess the magicians call it willor whatever. But you could just say
focus right, like anything that youtell yourself, I'm going to do this

(01:39:20):
and nothing's going to get in myway. Do you think that that's part
of our power as humans? Basedon your astul travels and all this other
stuff, yeah, based on ourspiritual system and the way things work within
us. I guess I can putit this way. And I had to
think about it. You know,I think about a lot of things,
and I have to reassess on aconstant basis to try to figure out,

(01:39:45):
you know, what the reality ofthe situations are and how I come to
the conclusions of certain things. Sowhat I did was I decided, Okay,
how do I explain exactly what's happened? Because when people say why,
might not have I don't the wherewithalto be able to go through it?
Yeah? You do, you do, because I've come to the conclusion that

(01:40:05):
what I've done is I've taken somethingthat's almost impossible to understand. I have
no resources to look back on orto access in order for me to get
information. So I've got the impossiblein front of me, and I've got

(01:40:25):
thirty years involved into it. Andthe only way and the only way that
I've been able to move and inchforward is through sheer determination and trial and
error. I didn't know how tocreate a portal I didn't understand, so
I thought, well, let mejust try. Let me try to feel
the same way that I do whenI'm having the experience, and it did

(01:40:48):
work. Now I can't explain howI do that because I don't because I
have nothing to compare it to andif you didn't have it, But I
can help others do that. Theother thing is when you're when you don't
have anybody else to confide in oranybody else to help along, you have

(01:41:10):
to trust yourself. You have toreally go deep. I mean you have
to go to the point where you'relike, you know, where you actually
feel like you just don't you know, have no idea what to do.
You're just you're out of answers.You you were just you lay out lay
it all out and say screw it. You know, this is where I'm

(01:41:32):
at. I can't do anything worsethan just to I'm gonna do this.
I just started thinking of stuff uptop of my head. Do this,
do this, do this, Andthen eventually you will get to a point
where you're like, wow, ifI wouldn't have got to that point,
then I probably wouldn't be able tomove forward. You know, you have
to realize that you're going to beat a at a crossroads that you feel

(01:41:56):
like you don't have any direction,and just go just move ahead. I
don't care what direction it is.Move ahead, and you will trip and
fall unto the right path. Youdon't seem like the kind of guy that
likes to stay at a crossroads verylong. I don't. I don't like
cross roads because you know what Ilike to I like to make a decision

(01:42:16):
and I like to move on.I like to be active. I want
to I want to get moving.I want to get I want to see
things happen. And I'm probably theworst guy when it comes to I am
the most impatient person in the world. But you know what I've been I've
been subjected to being so patient thatit makes me sick to my stomach.

(01:42:39):
Certainly that'll give you patience, man, you know, but but but still,
I still believe that you can't leteven even your partner, like even
your spouse, as much as youlove them, right, or your children,
you still can't let them take overyour your authenticity or the spirit to

(01:43:00):
you, or your journey or Imean whatever. I think we get that
confused too, right with the thingslike well my wife did My wife didn't
support it first. I'm sure shedidn't want I'm practicing it, and I'm
not gonna say anything. I justdidn't say For years. I didn't say
anything. I'm like, you know, she was kind of like, don't
ask, don't tell you. Ithink she knew that I didn't give up

(01:43:24):
because I just don't give up,and so she didn't ask me until years
later. I finally said something,and she's like, why doesn't understand what
that's about. So I'm like,okay, cool, Well what practical purpose?
How's that gonna? Like I canwhat how is that going to like
get us a house or help usretire? You know that's usually what women
they are thinking about, right,how's that? How's that going to make

(01:43:45):
the earth life better. Right,How's that gonna pay the bills? Right?
But but man to empower people,and this is what I you know,
I've tried to explain to people inmy life. Look, yeah,
there may be hard times or whatever, but once you have this kind of
authenticity and power and freedom. AndI'm sure you wrote about this in your
second book, right, like thereisn't really imagine the freedom of realizing I

(01:44:12):
can be as abundant as I wantto be and I can overcome just about
anything as long as I don't giveinto these belief sets that start to bring
this fear upon me. You know, I'm a creative being. Why the
hell am I afraid to begin with? You know? And I don't think
fear is even the biggest factor forme. It wasn't. But I think
the hardest point was is you didwith your daily life and you're enthralled in

(01:44:38):
everything that's happening around you, andyou're so hyper focused on it that even
when I first started having these astralrejections and portal, I would forget about
it because it was prone from mymemory almost because it wasn't on the importance
list. It wasn't high enough onthe importance list, so that I would
just kind of forget about it andthings would happen in my regular life,

(01:45:01):
and then I would be reminded byhaving another one, or I would start
to get these sensations of like energymovement within my body. I was like,
it was constantly coming back to meas a reminder. You started this,
you need to follow through, youknow. And so finally at some
point I said, okay, youknow, I give in. I give

(01:45:21):
in. I'm going to put thisstuff aside and I'm gonna move full steam
ahead. That doesn't mean that everythingfell in line for me, because it
didn't. It never fell in linefor me things. You know. I
still had to work hard for it, and I still had to get frustrated,
and I still went through all theall the all the phases that everybody

(01:45:41):
else goes through it. So whenyou think about things being easy for people,
even if you're a person that askedfor projects and like you said,
it was easier for you in thepast, it doesn't mean it was easy.
It doesn't mean everything that you dealtwith in your life was easy.
It doesn't mean that the whole processwas easy. It doesn't mean that you
were looking for was easy. Sojust because you're able to do one thing

(01:46:04):
doesn't make everything else easier. That'strue, That's totally true. Yeah,
but it does. I would saythat it does give you, not making
things easy, but maybe becoming lessafraid of other of uncomfortable things or unknown
or understanding. Yeah, not doesn'tmake life easier, right. That doesn't

(01:46:26):
mean astral travel so I could siton my ass and everything's going to come
my way, right, No,But what I mean is is like it
makes things to where it's like whereyou're less afraid of the unknown, and
your your ability to look at lifeand the unknown and uncomfortable stuff is more
of an adventure than it would besomething to be just totally trembling afraid of.
You know, it answers some ofyour questions, It gives you.

(01:46:51):
It gives you a basis that youdidn't have before, an understanding and a
perception that you know you didn't havebefore you had it. And now you
have a new level of understanding ofsomething that most people don't have. So
now when you look at things,you can look at them from a different
perspective because, like I said,you can't unsee what you've seen and you

(01:47:15):
can't see what you haven't seen,so you can't understand what you haven't seen.
So you you now make it yourdecisions and process information with a knowing
and an understanding that a lot ofpeople don't have. So the way you
think might not match what a lotof people think unless you meet somebody that

(01:47:35):
might be similar to you because they'vehad similar experiences. That's what I'm hoping
for, you know, That's whatI'm hoping for, because you know,
it's one thing to inspire people,but some people just don't. Look.
I guess what I'm trying to sayis is that I understand you, Mike,
and what your books are about,regardless if I'm sure there's some things

(01:47:58):
that we might not agree on,and once I read the book, you
know fully, but I wish therewere more people like you that understood that
would say, Look, I mean, I need to know this stuff experientially,
and yes, it's going to bean adventure to figure this stuff out,
and yes I may have to pivotand make up my own decisions to
figure this stuff out, but Iwant to explore my consciousness and I want

(01:48:23):
to be a free, sovereign,spiritual person here and be less afraid of
it all, you know, andjust I want that for other people,
because that's why I'm doing this.I mean, for me, I can
go and talk about my own experiencesall day long and that doesn't do anything
for me. I mean, I'monly coming here in hopes that I can

(01:48:43):
spark, you know, start aspark in somebody's life to where they'll maybe
begin to go on their path,or if they're already on their path,
to maybe give them a little kickin the ass, a little bit of
a boost to help them along.Because every once in a while, somebody
needs to have a little bit ofa you know, of a pep talk,
or some people need to hear somethingthat might trigger something in their lives

(01:49:06):
that really helps them out. Sowhen I put out videos on my Rumble
channel, it's not about me.It's about sharing my experiences, sharing things
that I think will maybe help otherpeople. And that's the whole purpose behind
it. Perfect. Yeah, that'sperfect. What would you say to anybody
that what do you think the biggestthing they're going to take from your your

(01:49:28):
book, your first book, Whatdo you think the biggest thing they'll take
away from that book? The biggestthing you're trying to get the message out
to them. I know it's aboutyour explorations. But the number one thing
you hope someone would take away frommy dark explorations for those gateways in astral
what I would hope that people wouldwould take away from that is the fact

(01:49:48):
that we all have the abilities todo things that we don't even we can't
even understand. I didn't know Ihad the ability to do that because the
first time I saw them, thefirst for years, I didn't even know
what they were. I was havingthese experiences, but I was like,
you know, And then the firsttime that I was able to initiate one,

(01:50:11):
then I was like, Wow,did I actually do that or was
it somebody else doing it? SoI had to keep doing it and doing
it in order to prove to myselfthat it wasn't somebody else doing it.
So, you know, you're unsureof yourself, you're unsure of what's going
on. You don't, like Isaid, you don't have people that you
can ask questions because you don't becausenobody else has an experience in it.
So moving ahead and allowing yourself tobe able to be open enough to see

(01:50:40):
what you're capable of. And onething I have to say is if you
once, even once see any inklingof what you have available to yourself,
you are going to change your wholeperspective on the way things look. Exactly.
I changed my perspective. And whenpeople say, well, how did

(01:51:00):
you change it, I can't tellyou because I'm at a point now where
I'm into it for a long time, and when I see things, when
I have these experiences, it's notlike the first time that I had it
before. It's like I've had itfor so many I've had it for so
long that I'm not desensitized, butI'm more hyper focused on what I see

(01:51:21):
so that I'm bringing the information back. I'm not excited because I know kind
of what to expect, but I'mmore focused on what I can share with
other people and what that experience isgoing to bring to the grand scheme of
things and how I perceive it.Yeah, because imagine the world that way
if we lived in and everybody.Imagine a world that we lived in and

(01:51:43):
everybody had your experience or my experienceor something like our experience, not just
a fifteen percent, but let's sayseventy percent of the population had these experiences
that you and I have had,right man, everything would everything would change,
Everything would change. And you know, I'm not saying that I'm perfect,
because I have a lot of flaws. It's a lot of bad decisions.

(01:52:06):
But you know, a different forsure. Oh yeah, we would
be in a different direction, wewould be in a different understanding of how
things work. So I can't.I can never compare myself now from what
I was before this, because II there's no way that I can even
you know, I can have myselfright next to me from then I can
say, okay, well I cancompare myself. But there's no way.

(01:52:29):
Once you begin to change, there'sjust it's like once the can is open,
there's no it won't fit back inthe can. You throw the can
away. It's you're something else,you're someone else. And and I'll tell
you this and one thing I don'treally talk too much about. Once you
feel the energy flow in your bodyat certain times. Now, let me

(01:52:51):
get you as close to the ofthat concepts as you can. So say
you're in a dream and all ofa sudden, something what you would maybe
say scary or frightening, or maybesomething that catches you off guard, and
all of a sudden, you feelthis rise of energy. The hair on

(01:53:11):
the back of your neck is juststanding out, like this thing is going
to jump on me at any time. And I mean it's like a total
rush of energy. Now that energyis not just flowing through your body,
it's thlowing through your spirit, becauseyou're not going to feel that in your
body on the astra when you're havinga dream. So what you're doing is

(01:53:31):
that's an energy flow. Now,once you begin to open yourself up and
realize what's happening and accept some ofthe truths, or accept some of your
own perspective and your own and yourown perceptions, then you will begin to
understand and feel that flow of energy. And once you once you experience it
out of like fear or anguish oranything like that, you will understand that

(01:53:57):
there is something within you that isso so powerful that you have absolutely no
concept of what it's capable of.And that's why I think we are being
so so heavily manipulated and so heavilywatched, because if this starts to come

(01:54:17):
out, then people are just gonnait's just I can't even explain it.
But once you feel that you areon a completely different realm. Now it
doesn't happen all the time, butonce you feel it, you will have
absolutely no question of what the capabilitiesof human of spiritual beings is. Yeah,

(01:54:41):
once you tap into because I rememberwhat that was like when people were
saying, oh, move your energy, feel your energy. This is energy,
And I'm like, what are youtalking about? Feel your energy?
I don't feel shit, I don'tfeel nothing. What are you talking about?
Right? Like? I feel mybody, I feel a way I
normally feel. What do you mean? You know? And then I did
have one experience, you know,and mainly it was the out of body

(01:55:02):
stuff and a couple of meditations I'vedone where I felt a vibration in my
body and I felt an energy.It was more like a creative energy of
an awareness, right or I feltclose to source like you were talking about.
So the more I started doing thingsto feel closer to source, but
to be to come into my ownindividually, is this like energy that started

(01:55:25):
kind of building up that I didfeel And I'm like, oh, is
this what they're talking about? Youknow? I don't know if it's that
or if it's the vibration, butI felt something that I never felt before.
You know, one way I tellpeople that you might be able to
experience it is go in a roomwith a good, great stereo something,
sit in there and turn it up. Yeah, and play songs that you

(01:55:46):
really like. Okay, Now,a lot of people have this ability that
if a certain part of the songor a certain song will come on,
you will physically get goosebumps all overyour body. When that is you're in
that realm and it's just all everything'sfiring off because music will initiate that in

(01:56:08):
a lot of people. It's notalways the same songs. But if you
try that and experiment with it,and even if you're in the car whatever,
play those tunes, play that musicand turn it up, and once
you get that feeling, there willbe absolutely no deniability that there's something going
on. So, you know,try every aspect that you can to prove

(01:56:30):
to yourself and understand and accept thatyou are way more because there's more of
it available, and a lot ofpeople, because it's not high on their
priority list in their life, it'spushed back and pushed back subconsciously. A
lot of times we're reminded, butwe just ignore it because you know,
we've got other things going on.You got kids, and you got jobs,

(01:56:54):
and you got bills and everything elseis going on. You keep pushing
it back, but you need tolet it out. You need to allow
that to come forward in your life. Right. I totally agree with you
on that one hundred percent. Andwe're out of time here, man,
but I'd love to have you backon the show at some point and then
to keep this conversation going. Butif you can tell us what you like,

(01:57:15):
do you plan on writting any morebooks, or how they can find
your books, that kind of thing, you know, because once people come
on the show, they tend tofollow a little and they want to keep
following. Yeah, I write.I read the books. They're short and
to the point, so I tryto keep them like that. So I
know it's hard to go through atwo hundred and three hundred page book and
really maybe a third of it's theinformation that you really want to get to.

(01:57:39):
That's why I make them short sweet. So they're both unavailable on Amazon,
and then I'm going to keep publishing. And what I'll do is I
usually take a couple months to writesomething because I want to get good content
in there, and then once Iwrite it, I'll just release it.
So one was written in March oflast year, twenty twenty three, and
I just released one in March twentythis year. And then I'm just going

(01:58:01):
to go ahead and try to dolike maybe every six months or something like
that. I'm posting videos on Rumbleon a regular basis. And what I'll
do is now I'm focusing on thenew book information related to that, and
I try to go deeper into thesubject so that I can put my personal
experiences related to that, and Ithink people can relate to that a little

(01:58:24):
bit better than just writing basic information. I want to go deeper into it
with the videos so they can kindof get a better understanding of what might
help them help them on their way. Yeah, and so yeah, So
I'll just continue to do that,support it on my Rumble channel, and
so follow me on Rumble and thenI can just you know, I'll keep
putting stuff on there, and allthe interviews that I try to get copies

(01:58:45):
of so I can post those onthere as well so people can see them
and get a better understanding of what'sgoing on. And I'll leave Michael's all
of his links down here in thedescription and the video description and also in
the podcast description when the podcast isso you guys can follow them. And
thanks again. I really enjoyed it, man. I rarely meet people that
are kind of I'm not saying we'redoing the exact same thing, but I

(01:59:08):
think our attitudes about certain things arepretty close, you know, And I
really appreciate it to be able totalk to someone. Yeah, it's nice
to be able to talk to somebodyon the same level so that you have
a good understanding of what's going on, and that way you can ask questions
that the audience would have probably havequestions, you know. I mean,
when you have a good interaction,the audience is going to completely you know,

(01:59:30):
they're going to benefit totally off ofthis because they can they can get
a lot of information that they probablywouldn't have because people just kind of follow
up a strict structure. You don'tget that out of it. Yeah,
for sure, and for sure Ihope we can do this again sometime.
Thanks Mike, Thanks for coming onfor to it all right. I hope
you guys enjoyed that interview with Mike. Some of those shows rarely, rarely

(01:59:56):
and I mean rarely, rarely dopret records, but I had so many
guests booked that I had to dothat, So I just hung out with
you all in the chat. Nowtomorrow night's show will not be We'll be
here with Ronnie Pontiac, who I'mstoked about it, like it's kind of
like being able to, I guessenergetically be around somebody that was around Manly

(02:00:19):
p all even though Jeff Harmon saidhe was around him. But this guy
learned directly from Manley p Hall soand he's got some books out, so
he's going to be on the showtomorrow night. And I know, I
guess it was. That really sucks. I'm sorry that you couldn't order a
shirt. I forget your name.Who was it? Was it Joyce?

(02:00:42):
It was probably Joyce. I updatedthe plug in so you should be able
to order it. I had toorder go through today. I don't know.
But if you do get a shirt, send us your picture so we
can put you up on the wall. Right. And then if you don't,
if you can't for any reason,just DM me on Facebook wherever you
can d me at and you candonate for how much ever the shirt is

(02:01:03):
and then I'll send it out toyou and then give you the order for
him. I can do that too. I hate when stuff doesn't work,
man, that sucks. But thatwas a really cool show. There's some
things that about what that I don'treally agree with, but they're like most
of the stuff with Mike I agreedwith. I'm gonna say like ninety five

(02:01:25):
percent of what he was talking aboutI agreed with, especially as far as
you know, like the attitude ofconscious exploration and stuff like that. But
it's very interesting. I'm pretty jealousof anybody they can make portals open up
in the astral realm, whether it'slucid dreaming or the actual I'm jealous of
it. So and uh yeah,Ronnie Pontiac's gonna be on here tomorrow,

(02:01:48):
Lisa, and uh yeah, sothat's tomorrow night, and then Tuesday are
in Voot will be on and thenI'm trying to get more guests on and
if I don't, we'll probably getback into some you know, book reading
and talk about some of that stuff. But I do want to put up
an episode of my review or something. I don't know. If I don't,

(02:02:12):
I think it'd be kind of hardto get Jason back on because he's
going on a lot of podcasts.But I did read the book Gates of
the Onanaki and I think, youknow, like when mainly p Hall talked
about there's seven seals to divine Revelation, I think Jason Quitz probably opened up
one of them in that book,honestly. So what's up, Pepe.

(02:02:34):
It's good to see all you guys. It's fun to hang out here every
every night. And we also broadcast, like I said, on Twitch and
kick under Magic, Maniac Magic witha c K. I probably do a
little gaming on those channels too,maybe on YouTube, I don't know,
but it was fun. Keep ondoing what you guys are doing. I'm

(02:02:54):
glad and I'm very grateful that youguys show up with your presence here every
night. Out of all the stuffthat you could be doing, there's so
much stuff to look at and entertainyour minds with on the internet. It
really does feel like it's a blessing. So thank you. And like I
said, if you guys can support, please do so. All right,

(02:03:15):
we're gonna get out here. Weran a little late. I kept you
guys too long. Make sure thatif you get out of body. Oh
and we will do another We willdo another what do you call it?
Show on ashvill Travel because I wantto find a place to where we can
all go to or something like thatlike we used to talk about. Right,

(02:03:40):
yeah, all right, we've gotto roll out of here. Thanks
for coming out, you guys.Can I yell

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