August 29, 2025 • 57 mins
Welcome to Like Mother Like Murder's Day 6 Trial updates providing daily coverage in the ongoing trial of Donna Adelson for the murder of Dan Markel.
Today, Rachel and Heather discuss the EXPLOSIVE testimony of two jailhouse informants. These women who were incarcerated with Donna get on the witness stand and testify that in exchange for various gifts and payments Donna asked them to to tell anyone who would listen that Katy Magbanua had told them the "true" story - Charlie and Donna were being extorted. We also hear testimony about Donna and Harvey's travel plans to Vietnam immediately following the conviction of thier son in November of 2023 before the prosecution rested thier case. Tune in next week when Donna mounts her defense
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Other LMLM Markel-Adelson Episodes:
On Spotify
Dan Markel & Wendi Adelson
Charlie Adelson on Trial
Charlie Adelson Guilty
Donna Adelson Arrested
Markel & Adelson - Part 2 (recaps Leading up to Donna's Trial)
On Apple Podcasts
Dan Markel & Wendi Adelson
Charlie Adelson on Trial
Charlie Adelson Guilty
Donna Adelson Arrested
Markel & Adelson - Part 2 (recaps Leading up to Donna's Trial)
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/like-mother-like-murder--6210055/support.
Today, Rachel and Heather discuss the EXPLOSIVE testimony of two jailhouse informants. These women who were incarcerated with Donna get on the witness stand and testify that in exchange for various gifts and payments Donna asked them to to tell anyone who would listen that Katy Magbanua had told them the "true" story - Charlie and Donna were being extorted. We also hear testimony about Donna and Harvey's travel plans to Vietnam immediately following the conviction of thier son in November of 2023 before the prosecution rested thier case. Tune in next week when Donna mounts her defense
Get ad free episodes, bonus content, and support our show!
Join our Patreon!
Become an Apple subscriber!
(all options are less than $5)
Other LMLM Markel-Adelson Episodes:
On Spotify
Dan Markel & Wendi Adelson
Charlie Adelson on Trial
Charlie Adelson Guilty
Donna Adelson Arrested
Markel & Adelson - Part 2 (recaps Leading up to Donna's Trial)
On Apple Podcasts
Dan Markel & Wendi Adelson
Charlie Adelson on Trial
Charlie Adelson Guilty
Donna Adelson Arrested
Markel & Adelson - Part 2 (recaps Leading up to Donna's Trial)
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/like-mother-like-murder--6210055/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Welcome to Like Mother Like Murder.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I am Rachel and I'm Heather.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
We bring you the good, the badass, and the crime.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
This is like Mother Like Murder, and.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
Right now is Like Mother Like Murders Trial updates, where
we will be providing daily coverage in the ongoing trial
of Donna Adelson for the murder of Dan Markel. We've
been covering this case for years now, and so far
four people have been found guilty in the plot to
murder this father of two young boys.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
And Donna Adelson, dan Markel's former mother in law, is
the latest conspirator to stand trial for this crime. Rachel
and I will be continuing to provide coverage every day
and will be joined by special guests throughout this special series.
We will be bringing you this every day that there
is trial coverage.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
So let's do this. So today is day Sace. It
is day six.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
The ongoing trial of Donna Adelson for the murder of
Dan Markel, and today has has got to be like
the most today, Oh my gosh, the most crazy day,
the most new information, bond romping information. Up until now,
(01:44):
everything has just been like foundational. I'm not sure how
much new information I.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Was gonna say foundational.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
But then also a lot of it is stuff that
you've you've said, has been said in other case, things
that have been heard, nothing really new up until today
because today was a lot focused on Donna.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Because I'm telling.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Youawser wowser before we get into it, Rachel, Yes, any
anything that like you want to say, like anything like
that really really sticks out in your head before we
get into it, or do you want to wait.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Until we like start talking about it.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Yeah, I was gonna say, I mean, we can go
in order because all I'll say is like the entire ending,
the entire last half of it stuck out, and you
know there's certain things that I'm just like the Okay,
there it is. That's the moment here, we have it.
I know, I know the amount of times I just
(02:45):
yelled guilty good right right? Like so yeah, I mean,
so like we before we get into today there uh
oh yeah, it's it's building.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
It's building and building and building.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
But before we get intoday, just because today is going
to be so hardcore, we need to say this at
the front. Everyone we talk about in this podcast, besides
Charlie Edelson, Katie Magbatawa sick Fredo Garcia and Luis Rivera,
who have already been tried and convicted for this crime.
But everyone we talk about in this podcast is innocent
until proven guilty. This is all allegedly and in our opinion,
(03:18):
because don Aedison is currently on trial for the murder
of Dan Marcel, conspiracies to commit murder of Dan Marcel,
and until she is proven guilty by a jury of
her peers, everything we say is alleged and in our opinions. Okay,
what if we started making up our own word Like
I was trying in my head to like mix like
(03:40):
alleged it alleged and guilty, and it does not go.
And it's the guh and the just. So I'm like, allegged.
If it's a legged, they're guilty, alleged guilty, they're dilligedly
they're guilty legidilly.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Nah, well that is not a good one. We know
that's not a good one because there's not a shirt
about it yet.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Will make a legit guilty anyway, So we so let's
let's get into it. We we started. We started back
that poor man that you guys, this is like day three,
and he was he you guys, he Sanford was an
(04:26):
entire another half of a whole day. He was there
until the lunch break, and I'm just like, oh my gosh,
and I feel like the entire court room they all
laughed about it. They giggled when he was finally released.
You know, it's like he deserved a round of applause.
And he he really I just I just this guy.
(04:49):
He and he really held his own and you could
tell that he, you know, he knew his stuff. I mean,
he had worked the case for years and years and years,
but it also had been you know, I'm I mean,
it's been we're going on a year and a half
fish since Donna had even been arrested, right, So it's
just been you know, it's been a while. And then
(05:10):
of course it's you know, so the fact that this
guy could even just maintain his composure through all of
it just props to you, Sanford. So we hear him
talk about they start, you know, they start off he's
talking about, you know, Katie collecting the money.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
And I don't know why I.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Wrote this down, and I kind of wrote like duh, Heather,
like I don't know why it never clicked to me before.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
But we talked about the fact.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
That you know when Katie went that night after the
murders and after the murderers had made it back down
to Miami, that she went to go collect the money
from Charlie and she ended up spending the night at
his house that night that he mentioned that, oh, my
parents just left. And then when she got her cut
of it a few days later, she touched the money
(05:53):
and she was like, oh, it was wet, and she
asked Charlie like, why is it wet?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
And he goes, oh, my mom washed it. I don't
know why.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
It never clicked for me before that, like his parents
had been there and dropped off money, like dropped off cash. Yeah.
But we go from there right into the infamous And
we heard a lot about this in the news right
after Charlie Adelson was convicted. Right after Charlie Adelson was convicted,
(06:23):
we hear a lot about his jailhouse phone calls between
him and Donna, and this is it's new and that
it has not been presented in a trial before because
obviously this is after Charlie had been convicted.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
But we did hear about this in the news.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
I remember reading about this and it is so what
happened is Charlie and Donna were on a call.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Of course, we know jail.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Hous calls can be recorded, and what happened was Charlie's
and hung up. So Charlie's and from the jail was
just connected. Donna I think must have assumed she hung up,
and yeah, I feel like she just thought not even
hang up. Like it just makes me think, you know,
how yourself and someone hangs up, it's like it's done
and it turns off.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yeah, it did not turn off, you guys.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
And what's crazier even, is like I feel like there's
and I'm sure it works a different way when you're
calling from a jail, especially if the line is tapped
at the but it's like it didn't even. It's like,
you know how like the call hangs up might like oh,
you know, after thirty seconds or something, it'll just automatically disconnect. No, no, no,
(07:37):
they have like minutes, yeah, minutes of recorded stuff. But
it's during this call where you're where you're listening to uh,
Donna and Harvey and what sounds like a few lawyers
or whoever else is sitting there and you're just like,
damn Donna and Uh, and you can tell she's upset,
(08:00):
and at one point you do feel a little bit.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
No, you don't feel bad.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
This is the first time that you see her. For me,
this was the first time that I saw her crying
throughout these six days. And I've already told you that
I've had moments where you know, I felt something or
you know, like my heart aches because it's like, why,
why did it ever have to get to this point,
(08:25):
you know, like, you guys had it great, you had
it so good, you know, and you're greedy, You're in
greedy is so bad, it's so bad. But seeing her cry,
I kept having this vision of like when Wendy was
on the stand and she was just deadlocks, staring her down,
(08:47):
just wanting to make eye contact with her. And I
truly don't think it ever happened. I think Wendy just think, yeah,
she was like I can't look over there. But to me,
it was like a very stone wick cold demeanor, right,
And that comes from I mean, there's a lot of
messages and there's a lot of stuff that where it's like,
(09:09):
you know, Wendy didn't reach out to her parents, she
didn't ever ask.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
About Charlie, and that hurt you know, Donna, because that's
your little baby whatever. But seeing her cry was like,
let's catching up.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Get what you get, what you get, Kara Karma. But
at one point she says this, and you're right, because
I'm like, well, you put yourself in this situation, right,
your choices, put yourself because she goes, I have one
son who doesn't talk to me. She's talking about Rob.
I have one son who doesn't talk to me. I
have one son with no help. She's talking about Charlie,
who was in jail, right, And she goes, and I
have a daughter who I love but doesn't also is
(09:44):
not in the process of not because she's just finished
talking about how Wendy is like because you know, the
the Charlie's been convicted, Wendy testified at Charlie's trial for
the state, and you know, told them everything. And she's
been saying like, look, I'm not going to talk to
you guys about anything to do with Charlie or the
(10:05):
case or anything like that. And you know, and she
she and like Rachel said, like they talk about how
like after the after the trial or even during you know,
Wendy tried to say, like, you know, mom, if you
need me, like, you know, I'm you know, I'm here,
like I know, it's like hard right now for everybody.
And and Donna was like kind of like mean back
(10:28):
to her daughter, like kind of taking Charlie's side over Wendy's.
I mean, we mentioned before how Donna felt that Wendy
didn't do enough to defend her brother, right, and so
Donna's response was like, you know, Wendy, Charlie's done so much.
He's protected his little sister all after all these years,
and all you have to say.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Is that and bla la la la, la la la.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
And like you said, like Charlie's her little baby, so
she's gonna whatever whatever. But it's also during this call
that we hear her talk about her plans for a visa, right,
And it is this call that detectives hear about this
and later you know, kind of confirm with some later
(11:10):
you know, catching up that they see that she's making plans,
she's buying tickets, and that this leads to the infamous
arrest at a at the airport, literally on the jetway,
you know, minutes away from boarding a plane, that Donna
and Harvey are taken into custody, and that they they
(11:35):
they get her phone.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
They then also get a search.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Warrant for her home and they gather some evidence from
her home as well. And uh and this is and
this is where you know, like mother like murder. I
was in an airport and I was like on my
phone recording an update you guys, Donna Adasan was at
an airport on our way to Vietnam. I ran the
(12:00):
wh for are you you going, oh my gosh, oh
my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, and like
texting me, sending me articles or whatever it was, and
just freaking out. And I'm like, oh my gosh, you
need to come home so we can record something together.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
And she's like, why I record a shit together? I'm
recording it right then.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
Second, I literally was like at an airport and luckily
I have like a super early morning flight. The airport
wasn't super loud, but of course all I have is
my phone, so I'm just.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Like, you know what it is, what it is?
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Yeah, And I was like, we gotta get it out.
That was I mean, that was absolute insanity. And so
that is when the state you know, wraps up, wraps
up with Special Agent Sandford. And then and then the
defense starts their cross and the poor guy like he
already has been on the stand for like, you know,
(12:49):
two and a half days at this point, and he
just looks exasperated. And then the lady, the female defense attorney,
I'm sorry you, guys, I still don't know her name,
and and he she gets up to do the cross
and I swear to god, guys, his sigh. He was
straight up like, and he has kept his composure so
good through this, but he straight up goes like, and
(13:10):
I the same thing, because she is I'm sorry, out
of the two defense attorneys, I feel like she is
the least prepared with these cross examinations.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
She is not good. She is not good.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
And she and and you'll see during her cross like
she tries to cross him on evidence that he didn't
even freaking testify.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
To and ask him, wait, was that you that?
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Yeah, testified to that, And he's like shaking her. We're
gonna have other people up here, We'll get to them.
Oh yeah, Like, are you joking, lady? You don't even
know what this man testify to, Like you're putting him
in the rest of the courtroom. Who's watched this this
guy testify for two and a half days through this stuff,
like lady gets truck stuck together. The only good thing
(13:57):
from her was the you know, mo of comedic relief
when she went up there and said, like, you know,
we're gonna have to rewatch every single or re listen
to every single one.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
And his face was like, was like, are you joking.
He's like, I would not do that to you or
anyone here, anyone in this courtroom. And he goes, thank you,
thank you.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
The other comedic thing that I found, which was and
I feel like she set herself up so perfectly for
anyone to just be like, you're dumb because of his
facial his facial expression said everything. So she says, you know,
so you listen to all the calls, you know, because
(14:39):
a big part of his testimony, right was going through
all the wiretapped calls. Yeah, and she says, so you
listened to all the calls and you considered everything in them, right,
And he's like, well, yeah, you know, we listen to
all them. We consider everything we listen to and she goes,
so you even consider when Charlie calls his mom and
he says to his mom, you didn't do anything to
(14:59):
anybody you you don't know anything. You considered that right too,
Like you considered that too, right, And he gets the
biggest smirk on his face like sure, yes, yeah I
considered it. And I'm like, yeah, we consider it a
fucking lie, we consider it.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
And I'm just like it's so.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Funny because she's like, you consider it right, And it's
just like he gets the biggest smirk on his face
and it's like, why would you set yourself up witness
to just completely like tell like it just with his
facial expression show like, oh you're stupid, Like yeah, yeah, yeah,
the last two days showing you why, like Charlie Adelson.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Is an idiot.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Yeah, you can just tell through these two days of
testimony that Charlie, Like anyone who just listens to two
days of Charlie Adelson prattling on.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Will be like no, right, yeah, that that was funny.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
But I mean to him, he was up there so
long and he he did I don't know him. I
didn't know who it was before any of this, but man,
he made a fan out of me. How he kept
me composure, He knew what he was doing. He was
very good at whenever someone said something that you know,
(16:22):
whenever she tried to like get him yeah, like yeah him,
or like set him up or whatever, where he just
had like a witty or like a just stop kind
of like him, you know, and I'm just like, oh
my gosh, love yeah, I love it. And he still
did it like respectfully, but just like a very like okay. Well,
and then I you know, she very subpar cross, but
(16:43):
she finishes up her And of course I could be
completely biased in this. I do think just in general,
her crosses are just not as good as as the gentleman's.
But also just like in general, I don't think the
defense is mounting a very good cross, but she finishes
up her cross and she He's basically asking, do you
have any direct evidence to suggest that Donald Adelson ever
(17:05):
threatened Dan MARKL? Do you have any direct evidence to
suggest that you know Donna Adelson wanted to kill Dan MARKL.
Do you have any direct evidence to suggest, basically in
any way that Donna Adelson is connected to Dan Markell's death,
to which he has to respond, No, I don't have
any direct evidence that Donna Aedelson was was uh was connected.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
To Dan Markell's death.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
And then Georgia freaking Kapelman, my freaking hero. She stands
up for redirect, and the first thing she does, did
you have circumstantial evidence right that Donna Adelson was was
r again? Mar that?
Speaker 1 (17:42):
And he goes a lot yeah, every class, Yeah, yes.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
And Georgia Capelman just really knows how to she knows
how to bring because you know, the whole point, right
of a of a of a across is to just
like negate everything that happened on Direct really almost try
to like throw you know, throw stones at it, make
it look like muddy the waters almost like if you
(18:14):
can't confuse the jury with it, make it look like
the witness doesn't know what they're talking about, and or
that all of it was trash. And you know, Georgia
Kapelman just really knows how to bring it right back
to the crux of the of the issue, which is,
you know, okay, but there's a shit yeah everything, And
there's a there's a part later where they bring Corbett back, y'all.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Corbett comes back to the stand. That's spin a shop
part of the day. Oh and you know, he.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Makes a very blatant statement and we'll get to it later,
but he goes these things on their own singularly, and
we mentioned this yesterday singularly.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
No, these things.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Don't, you know, make one look guilty. But when you
take all of these things together, the you know, put
them together and yes, you know this is that's the
whole point of circumstantial evidence. And then so finally, finally,
thank you Sandford for your for your contributions to this
case and to this trial. You have been an angel,
(19:13):
and we commend you on your testimony.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Yeah, I go home and take a month. What did
the judge say?
Speaker 3 (19:20):
He's like, you better get out while get into good,
get your ass out in here before we call you back.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
I said, they should have asked. They always have to ask, like,
you know, do you call him back? And you know,
do you plan on calling him back?
Speaker 3 (19:33):
And I'm pretty sure the can't of the audio didn't
quite pick it up, but I think Kapelman was like,
you know, that's not our intention to And so the
judge is like, you better.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Get gone after him. I feel like the next one
he wasn't. There wasn't much. I think that was a foundational.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
I think it was really just establishing that so he
was a he worked for Miami Dade Sheriff and he
was just someone who assisted on the on the search
and seizure from the Adolson home after Donna's arrest, just
making sure I think, just you know, this is the
stuff we collected from the home, yea. And I think
again it was just foundational stuff because later on you'll
(20:14):
see Corbett is back and testifying to some of the
some of more of the communications that were found after
the fact in terms of what he was able to
find with a planner, which was actually some interesting stuff,
and some other communications that were actually uncovered between Donna
(20:35):
and Charlie via WhatsApp, which was very interesting.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
But then we get to the nitty gritty. Then we
get to.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Some of the most jaw dropping and explosive testimony that
we have heard in this in this honestly probably in
this entire like set of trials so far. And it's crazy,
I mean, other than Louis Rivera, who you know obviously
(21:05):
has his story and you know what he experienced with
between Garcia and Katie mcbanewah, but like he never had
any direct contact with the atelsns. But now we have
some explosive testimony that is directly linking Donna to this
conspiracy and my job was on the ground this entire time,
(21:28):
this entire time.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Explosive, explosive.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
So the first person they bring out is Patrici Shippard,
and she is a Leon County inmate, and they established
that she she spent time in Leon County jail with
Donna for like six or seven months, and they established
that she's not been giving any deals for her testimony.
(21:53):
And then this lady just gets right into it, drops
her bomb that Donna. How the conversation went is that
Patricia Bird asked, did you do what you're in here for?
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Basically like, are you guilty of what they say you're
guilty for?
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Ye? And Donna straight up says, yeah, I did it
to keep my grandkids close. But it wasn't supposed to
go that far, and they kept it close in on
Patricia's face while she's testifying. But god, I wish I
would have seen in the moment.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Yeah, I know, I know. It's freaking crazy.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
So well, and it's crazy thinking too, because like, so
how you said she said she was you know, cellmates,
or they called it a different word, podmates, podmates, and
you know they were they befriended each other.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Her and the next one that we're about to talk
to or talk about.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
And it's like you, I could only imagine claiming or
or say someone's my friend in there and then sitting
across on stand, you know, like having to testify against
someone like that.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
That is absolute insanity.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
And I just could not imagine how you said looking
at Donna's face in that moment, if oh for sure,
Oh for sure, for sure, for sure. And except for
the other, the other one we're talking about, I feel
like she could just stood there and stared her down
the entire sol.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
For sure, Oh for sure.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
I know they were like totally different, yeah, like completely different.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Testimonies for sure. Yep.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
And then so basically what Patricia goes on to say,
as they say they established that Patricia had also previously
done time with Katie Magbaniwa, and she says that when
Donna found out that Patricia also did time with Katie,
(23:52):
that she told Patricia, Hey, you know what you should do,
is anyone who comes in here, anyone who will freaking listen, investigators,
my defense attorneys, anyone who will listen, tell them that.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Katie told you, right.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
So, like Donna is basically feeding Patricia's story that if Patricia,
any chance she gets, she should tell them to tell
an investigator this. Hey, Katie told me that Sigfredo Garcia
and Louis Rivera went and killed went and killed Dan
Markel because they knew that Katie's boyfriend I e Charlie,
(24:36):
that Katie's boyfriend's parents had.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Money, had money. Yep, okay, which.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Is basically the defense that was mounted by Charlie during
Charlie's trial. Right, that Katie, Sifredo and Louis Rivera did
this on their own and then after the fact went
in blackmailed Charlie, right, and then.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
So that was the story.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
And then Patricia said that in exchange, Donna said, and
when you know, when you get out, I'll get you
a trailer, I'll get you some land, and my husband
will fix your teeth for you.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Yeah, yeah, okay, the bribery mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
And then Patricia also testified that Donna would also get
her gifts from the canteen, which is like the sore inside,
and that she would get her gifts from the canteen
when they were.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Still obviously like in jail.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Okay, So then they confirmed, so did Katie ever tell
you any of this?
Speaker 1 (25:35):
And She's like no.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
And then they were like, but you did go and
tell people this, and she goes, yeah, I went and
told this stuff to investigators, but I told them that
none of it's true.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
But Donna told me to stay.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Right right, And she explains that you know, some of
the other girls, like, you know, Donna had said this
to some of the other girls, and the other girls
had said it, and that Patricia explained this to her
own attorney, and that at that point is when her attorney,
her attorney told it to the state's attorney's office, who
(26:07):
then contacted her. And so straightforward just some perjury and bribery, yeah,
possibly fraud, just some straightforward bullshit, okay. And and so
just what she was doing, she knew what she was doing.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
It's it's so clear.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Yeah, yeah, and this is just some this just like
this seems very This to me just seems right up
Donna's alley. Yeah, because the the manipulation, the the the
very she puppeteering, the exactly exactly like the very like masterminding,
(26:54):
the very like playing my exactly puppeteer. I'm gonna move
my pieces here here in the other And so to me,
it just it makes perfect sense for it fits the
character fits it fits it, and then they so they
they do cross, and basically on cross, they're just trying
to establish that she's potentially not a reliable witness. I mean,
(27:17):
we've got a jail house informant. If y'all have listened
to Like Mother Like Murder, you've heard us talk about
jail house informance. But obviously the prosecution, you know, tried
to establish at the very beginning of her testimony, you're
not getting anything out of this. You're just telling us something.
You're not getting out of jail for this. You're not
getting a reduced sentence out of this. You have no
(27:38):
deal on the table for this. And they're like and
she's like, yeah, I've not been given anything for this,
and and that's it. But I feel like there was
a moment during this cross that I feel like something
he said I had to rewind it, and I was like,
I feel like you kind of fucked up, because if
you really listen to your two it, you're like, Okay,
(28:01):
like the way you're saying it, yeah, maybe that's not
like a guilt an admission of guilt, but like the
way the jury could have heard it maybe made it
makes it sound like you just said something bad about
your your your client, which is not good. So at
one point he brings up that, he brings up that
(28:26):
he says, you testified that Donna said it wasn't supposed
to go that far, and the witness responds, that's correct,
and he said, isn't it true that all she did
was right checks to miss mag Banawah And and I'm.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Like, so I forgot to say alleged guilty in there.
I like, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
It didn't aren't you just to say, isn't it true
exactly that that you you know, like, isn't it like exactly?
Speaker 1 (28:58):
And I'm like, you just admitted and so.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
But but like at the end of the day, maybe
they've stipulated that, yes, Donna Adelson wrote the checks because
because that is part of Charlie's defense, and I'm assuming
we're gonna hear next week that that's part of their
defense that she was cutting checks to Katie because she
was being blackmailed. So maybe they're stipulating that, yeah, Donna
did write the checks. But I'm like, it just makes
(29:22):
her seem guilty. And if you, I mean, she's guilty
of something, you're guilty of something she is, yeah, and
then so it's just it's I don't know, it's just it.
I didn't like the way it sounded. It made it
seem like she's guilty before they've even provided their defense
of she's she's only guilty of being a victim of
(29:46):
blackmail or something like that, you know what I mean.
So anyway, uh so they wrap up, they wrap up Patricia,
and then they bring out miss Drina Burnhart. So tell
that's what your thoughts are about Drina Drina Bernhardt. I mean,
we were talking about her a little bit, like a
little before we got on, and to me, I feel
(30:11):
like she what did I call her? I feel like
she's just like a professional in what she's doing and
like how she held herself up there where it's like
just straight like, look, I don't want to be here.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
I'm over all of this.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
I've you know, it's clear when they talk to her
that she's been in and out, She's she's served some time.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
So it's like she's this veteran.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Criminal and yeah, and she I don't know, like if
they'd never say if she's ever been on other cases
or worked worked as like an informant or like done
anything else like that. But to me, it's like she
she sat there and was just kind of like, look,
this part of the game. It is, this is part
of the lot. What it is.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Yeah, I'm gonna tell you what.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
I know what I heard, and I don't really care
about anything. To me, it was like a I don't
care vibe, but also like a just like straight matter
of fact person, Yes I would.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
I would agree with that.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
And so just like they do, and this is really
I mean, this is something that they do, and it's
something that that's important that they establish, especially from the
prosecutor side, to show.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Like we are not trying to hide anything.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
They go through her history, like she has a criminal
RECORDR and an extensive one, and you come to find
out that a lot of it is related to substance issues.
She's been in and out of jails, she's been in
and out of rehab programs some like, and you know
that that's some of these previous convictions did in tail
(31:54):
being untruthful in some way, shape or form, which makes
me think like fraud, maybe passing bad check in some way,
stealing to get extra money, you know, anything like that.
When it comes to substance you, I mean, you can
use your imagination to think of what people will do
for extra money to get right, so it you know,
that tracks for me.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
So they bring her out.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
Though, and they established that she spent several months I
think they said like four months, five months with Donna Adelson.
And one thing that the one thing she said early
on is that she said that like, yeah, yeah, Donna
referred Donna referred to her as her what jail house daughter.
It was so weird, something along those lines, something daughter, yeah,
(32:40):
and then they and then other like creepy things. She
said that sometimes she would refer to her grandchildren, the boys,
as her children. I always have a problem with that
weird sense of like, and I'm also like a involved, happy, helpful,
(33:00):
don't get me wrong, Hells to the Yeah, I'm all
for the support of grandparent, but that weird possessiveness of
your grandchildren knowing who she is, I mean, given all
the circumstantial and stuff, I can see why if it
was anyone else then someone did that.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
I'm over here, like I call my kid my dog,
I call my mom.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
My brother, like I'm always like, oh yeah, you know,
so it's like I I do that, so I totally see.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
And she's older.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
She could simply be talking about, oh my kids, Oh,
I mean my grandkids are something.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
But based on everything I.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Can to it was like a slip of the tongue thing.
But I the way that she the way that Drina
explained it, it was like a purposeful thing that she said,
like my children, Oh, I must.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
See that, like I missed that. For sure. It was
really good. She's that.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
She also, you know, in talking about the case often,
which is something you know, apparently she did that. She
brought up that she was worried about Rob's testimony. Rob
had never testified before we talked about this, and she
specifically said she was worried about Rob's testimony.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
And then of.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
Course they talk about Katie and the fact that Drina,
just like Patricia, has also done time with Katie. Yeah,
and then we get into the fact that or the
alleged the allegedness that the same deal or similar deal
that was made with Patricia was made here again with Trina,
(34:29):
that she wanted Drina to testify to some statements about Katie.
But this time Donna allegedly went so far as preparing
a script for Gina, Drina, Drena.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Yeah for Drina.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
That basically is almost word for word Charlie Adelson's defense.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Okay, that.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Like Katie since went and did this, went and murdered
Dan Markel and then after the fact like told Charlie
pay me or I'm about.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
To tell everyone. Yeah okay.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
And Drina in exchange, got gift baskets like foods and stuff.
She got phone calls paid for and then if she
was to ever get out, she would get wired tin
k from Harvey, she would get a grand piano, random,
she would get a camera and Donna And if this
(35:35):
is true, this really, really, extremely so much pisses me
off because now not only is Donna a horrible liar,
but she also has zero heart because she doesn't care
about a substance user who has a problem with substance use.
She said, Oh, I know a guy who can get
you pills. You don't say that to someone who's been
(35:58):
in and out of rehabit has a problem with pills
and is in the middle of you know, County, probably
dealing with you know, withdraw and like, what the fuck?
That part really pissed me out. That's disgusting, absolutely disgusting.
So they bring up and they you know, they established this,
they established the script and Carverina still has from County
(36:25):
where she had the script right that her and Donna
had gone over. So during cross they pointed the fact
that she has sent a letter, and they.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Basically again doing the same thing.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
They're trying to establish that she's an unreliable witness. And
what they're trying to do is they're trying to say
that the timing of her telling people about this ended
up going coinciding with when she was released at a
certain time. So basically what happened was she sent a
(37:01):
letter saying I have information that Donna Edelson is trying
to like, you know, get me to testify to some
false information. And then a few months later she's released.
And but the witness, Trina, she did a good job.
She held her ground. She was like, that's not why
it was released because of this letter.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
They continuously tried to just be like, oh, this is
exactly why you got out because of this, and she's like,
you know that's now, and she's just like yeah, yeah,
And again, you know, they're just trying to make her
an unreliable witness. They're basically trying to say, like this, look,
we can't trust this person's information because they only did
it to get an early release.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
And look, she wasn't.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
She did get an early release, And basically what they're
trying to say is like, look, she was facing a
substantial sentence and if she could come to some kind
of agreement, she wouldn't have that sentence. And basically they're
trying to do that. But the thing is, we mentioned
this before. She she had been in and out of jail,
(38:04):
she did have to have a substance use problem. She'd
also been in and out of rehab.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
So what it makes me think is that.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
Her release, there's a really really good chance that her
release had nothing to do with this. I mean, it
could have. Who freaking knows how that. You know, we
know the justice system isn't always the most you know, golden,
you know, everything works perfectly and it's all above ground
and YadA, YadA, YadA. We're right, But there's a lot
(38:30):
of times where like the release happens because they know
go to rehab. That we know a lot of times
here's your options, more jail or rehab. Pick I mean,
how many times is that especially for a young woman. Yeah,
you know, who knows. Maybe she's a mom.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
We don't know. They didn't get into that.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
But like they give people an option sometimes, do you
which one do you prefer? And and then on top
of that, what we find out during cross as well
is that sure she was released, but now she's back
in County for a different thing, and her testimony that
(39:13):
day currently on that day, she's not getting a deal
for her continued cooperation exactly. Okay, So maybe she made
all of that up about Donna. She could have made
all of it up. She could have been behind the
whole thing. She could have written it out by herself
and said, Donna Agelson told me to say this, that
(39:33):
and the other, and maybe she somehow convinced Patricia to
say the same lie. And maybe she wrote this all
out and did the whole thing and copied handwriting and
did the whole thing. Why in the hell would she
go through all the effort to now a year later,
still be coming to trial if she's now not getting
anything out of right, Yeah, because now she's on a
(39:56):
whole other like she failed her probation again and she
started using again, or I think that was the that
was why she failed her probation again, she started using again,
and now she's back in jail for a whole other thing.
She's not getting any deals out of this testimony, this
continued cooperation. So I mean it makes it's like it
(40:16):
does make a question. Okay, well maybe you can't rely
on but she's not getting anything. And like you said,
she does a matter of fact, that she really made
all this stuff up.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Why would she continue to waste her time with this ship.
She's not getting anything out of it. Now, what was
she getting out of it now? Nothing?
Speaker 3 (40:36):
So here's the other thing that makes me think that
you can believe her is and this is another thing,
because this is this you find out on cross. So
Georgia Kapelman says, Okay, so that all happened to you
blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
But now you're back in jail, and are you getting
anything for what's happening.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
No, you're you're gonna have to be accountable, accountable for
the what you recently got, you know, arrested for. Yeah,
and it's not gonna have anything to do with this strout. No.
And she again she's very straight like, she's very straightforward
about it. Yeah, And the other thing is that I
(41:17):
love it. Georgia Kapelman comes in, throws her freaking punches down,
and the defense is whole freaking timeline.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
It's so bait because.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
What's in the script, it's so specific to Charlie's trial.
If it didn't come from Donna, and let's say, unless
it really did come from Katie, and Katie really did
do all of that stuff, and she really did tell
Patricia and Drina this is exactly what I did and
(41:50):
exactly how I did it. And Drina wrote that all
down and remembered it perfectly from right when was that
was way back in like what twenty way earlier, even earlier, when.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
She would have talked with.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
Would she when she was her way earlier that he
would have like that Drina would have remembered it or
wrote it down or whatever way way earlier. Like the
details that Drina had written down, like it was like
the third of a million dollars, because if you remember,
they were going to offer Dan markl a third of
like or a million dollars and a third was gonna
(42:28):
come from Charlie and then a third or third of whatever,
Like everything was super detail. Either either they had gotten
the facts somehow, Yeah, and had been like day for
day watching Charlie Adelson's case, which I don't know they
have TVs in jail, but I can't imagine they let
(42:50):
them watch trial ship in jail, especially that you're standing
next to or yeah, or she was fed that freaking information, right, Yeah,
there's no way, There's no way.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
And on top of that.
Speaker 3 (43:04):
After Drina gets off the stand, Kaplaman does a great
job on redirect. They bring in this crime lab analyst
and say what you will about handwriting.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
I'm still fifty fifty. I don't know about it.
Speaker 3 (43:17):
She comes in and says, Donna Adelson wrote this.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Ye, so because she did allegedly.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
Like the way, and then we'll get back to the
script because Corbett. Corbett also is able to give us
some information.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
He's awesome, that freaking Corbett. Poor guy. He's come back.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
So now with him, between him and Sanford, it's they've
literally taken up like eighty percent. Seriously, Yeah, yeah, he's back,
and heal me. He really only has like the last
like thirty minutes of the day. He's not there too
much today. It's quick, but he brings some really really
good evidence ye, Corbett brings some really good evidence, and
(44:03):
I understand now why they have to bring him back,
because I think basically the reason they brought the random
dude back was to establish, like, this is some of
the stuff we seized from Donna after her arrest. Yeah,
and then they bring Corbett back because he analyzed the
stuff that was ceased, So they bring him back. And
one thing that they had found was in the script
(44:28):
that Drina had had in one of the things the
word extort. So supposedly Katie magnaniwa and if you listened
today day four and five, you heard Kate talk a lot.
She supposedly use the word extort. Katie said, we extorted Charlie,
(44:53):
and the word extort was underlined. Now prosecution had drawn
like had zeroed in on this earlier in the day.
Today they said, and you can see there that the
word extore is underlined.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Did you do that, Drina?
Speaker 3 (45:05):
And Gene is like, no, I didn't do that. It
would have been right. Donna like, I don't, Yeah, I
would extort mean anything. And I was also like, why
are you drawing attention to like, like that's weird. Why
would you draw attention to the word extore. And then
they're talking to Corbett and the prosecution says, okay, what's
significant about the word extore? And Corbett says that when
(45:28):
they have seized Donna's computer, I think this came up
on the computer that he testified that a week before
Charlie Adelson's trial, Donna had searched She had basically googled
or searched up what's extort versus blackmail?
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Yeah, yep.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
And they point that she looked this up in twenty
twenty three, a week before Charlie Adelson's trial, even though
she supposedly her and Charlie had been the victims of
this yeah scheme since twenty fourteen, and now she's only
just now trying to google some other stuff too, And
she googled some other stuff. What was the other stuff
that she googled?
Speaker 1 (46:12):
You know, where she should go? What is not an.
Speaker 3 (46:16):
X the edition country? And they also found on her
computer chats about how to get her uh via the
Vietnam fast tracked And was Vietnam one of the countries
listed as a non extradition country. It definitely was, and
and the other part of that was her yeah, fast
(46:42):
tracking it there. But then also a one way, one
way ticket, you know, so mm hmmm. Then they also
they also have Corbett talking about because this word extore
and this whole idea that because and it's good and
the prosecution is really really smart in the way that
(47:04):
they they bring Corbett back and they kind of because
otherwise they would have had to talk about this, you know,
three days ago, and it's not expression the jury's mind.
They're so smart for doing this. They bring up this
idea of extortion, and they bring up this idea of
the blackmail, and they're really looping this back around because
they know that this is most likely the way the
(47:24):
defense is going to play this, that they're going to
right up there on Tuesday. The defense is going to
come back on Tuesday and say don Agelson is the.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
Victim of extortion. This is all Katie mcbeannalla's pall.
Speaker 3 (47:35):
And what they did today was they established through Corbett,
who's been through all the communications that between all the
communications between Katie and Charlie, Katie who was supposedly extorting Charlie,
they never mentioned extort. In fact, all of their messages
are very lovey dovey. All their messages are downright flirty
(47:55):
even when they're not together. Correct, there are things like, ah,
I'm so happy I have you in my life. You're
such a good friend.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
No no, no, no no mm hm.
Speaker 3 (48:02):
That all of the messages between Charlie and Donna, including
the WhatsApp messages, which is supposed to be an end
to end encryption, where they should have been able to
speak freely to one another if they were worried about
getting caught about something right nefarious, never mentioned extortion, never mentioned, Hey,
are we still.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
Okay on our little problem?
Speaker 3 (48:23):
Like, never mention anything anywhere about any of that. And
they're really smart to bring this back around on their
last day that they are able to present evidence that
nowhere anywhere during this time when evidence shows that they
are still paying Katie Magbanawah her regular checks, that they
(48:45):
are mentioning that this is in any way related to extortion. Right,
And the defense is going to get up there next
week and say she was extorting her. Show us where,
show us where, Show us aware, because where was it?
The hairs will not be able to show anywhere. The
only evidence they're going to be able to say that
(49:06):
there was extortion is my guest, Charlie Aedelson's gonna come
up there and.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
Say I was being extorted and my mom, what's being extorted?
Speaker 3 (49:13):
Yeah, that's the only place they're gonna wear's the receipts?
Where are they? Because we've seen a lot of stuff.
What are you holding out on that we don't know
that we don't see? I'd love to see it, uh huh. Yeah,
And that's where we and then the defense rested, the
prosecution rest Oh, you're right, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
The prosecution rested.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
I wish the defense was resting because I'm not even
other than honestly, I am excited to hear Charlie because
he's just gonna make a full of himself.
Speaker 1 (49:44):
He's gonna make a full of himself.
Speaker 3 (49:47):
So I mean, that'll be one of the kids that
makes eye contact with his mom.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
Yeah, they're just gonna like weird, weird codependent relationship there.
Speaker 3 (49:58):
But I do want another funny thing, you know, I
always look for these little funny moments.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
But the whole conversation.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
About the plates in the closet and laughing in the way,
so it is like hilarious they're talking about so in
the pictures from when they went, you know, and searched.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
Stay home.
Speaker 3 (50:24):
Yeah, a closet in the bedroom there's plates, and it's
like why would there be plates?
Speaker 1 (50:30):
Why are there plates? Who has plates in there? Or whatever?
Speaker 3 (50:32):
And it was the defense that was up there right
saying something along the lines of like.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
Would you have plates in your closet? And Corbett's like, no,
probably no.
Speaker 3 (50:45):
And then as soon as like he walked away to
go get something, came back he's like, I actually need
to fix my last statement, like I should clarify my
guess bedroom.
Speaker 1 (50:56):
He was so funny, and then.
Speaker 3 (50:59):
Like after if they had finished for the day, he's
like he's like, my wife keeps them there. They're really
really nice plates. They're in these like really like clear
plastic things. They're like you know, like like your wedding
china or whatever that you get like the collectible plates
or whatever. Is what I'm saying, I have plates in
my downstairs closet. It was so I have plates, Well
I don't have They're in the garage. But they're like
(51:21):
the nice like super plate like they're their antique ones
like I would never actually eat off of, but I don't.
We keep them, and so it's just like but it was,
but freaking Corbett, man, I mean at.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
One point he had the jury laughing.
Speaker 3 (51:33):
At one point even even Sanford had them laughing. Like
it is again, I think it's important, especially for guys
like Corbet and especially for guys like Sandford who have
to spend such a long time on the stand and
a lot of their testimony is like listening to calls
and calls and calls and reading over this and this
and this. It can be very drab, which can make
(51:55):
a jury be like this guy is boring and annoying, right,
you know, which is not supposed to impact how they would,
you know, vote and how would they would feel about
the evisidence being presented.
Speaker 1 (52:06):
But people are people.
Speaker 3 (52:08):
It's important that like you're all trying to get through
the day, right there. Yeah, like and so it's it's
you're I'm glad you brought that up. That was it
was making me la, but then it just made me
love Georgia as well even more. She goes up there exactly,
she's like, she totally has to bring.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
That up before. What you like, what's going on with
your plate? Your wife did what your wife? And well,
and I'm glad you brought that up because there was
one thing I.
Speaker 3 (52:33):
Wanted to ask or is how you finished talking about
with Corbett? Was they asked him because they were talking
about this, they were like, does a visa make it
a ninety day visa mean you're leaving the country forever?
And he's like, by itself no, And he's like, does
(52:55):
selling some stuff make it mean you're leaving the country forever?
He's like, by itself no, and he's answering the same
way you know that Stanford Day is like, what you're
telling what you're trying to set me up to make
it sound like no. But but the way they answer
so well that they're like, yeah, you're answering no, but
(53:16):
you put that all together, that's circumstantial evidence in by
itself no, but you put.
Speaker 1 (53:23):
It all together and ALLEGI guilty. See it worksty I
like it And that's where we fit.
Speaker 3 (53:37):
Yeah, and now we get we get three days off,
three day. We've been at it every single day, you guys.
We get it on six, We get on at six o'clock,
We have this conversation, we watch.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
It throughout the day.
Speaker 3 (53:50):
It's been a full lot today, podcasting days this entire
week because we're watching this trial all throughout the day.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
And then we get on.
Speaker 3 (53:58):
We do this, we edit, we get it out, and
we're gonna enjoy our three day weekend. But we'll be
back at it on Tuesday because Defense is gonna start
on Tuesday, and I hope that Charlie starts because we
have Tuesday Wednesday. We get on flights on Thursday, and
I'm like, please don't do Charlie on Thursday.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
I know, because I got a watch, Like I guess.
Speaker 3 (54:21):
To see the first time that I'm gonna pay for
Wi Fi on a plane.
Speaker 1 (54:28):
Charlie. Well, yeah, because you have a long flight.
Speaker 3 (54:31):
My flight's short, so like I should be able to
catch up with stuff and see too bad.
Speaker 1 (54:38):
I have no idea how long it is, but I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (54:42):
But we we hope you guys all enjoy your long weekend.
Speaker 1 (54:46):
Please be safe.
Speaker 3 (54:48):
Uh if you haven't already, go catch up on on
the last couple episodes. Today is definitely the day.
Speaker 1 (54:55):
You know, if you.
Speaker 3 (54:55):
Want to go back and watch today's trial, you should,
or just listen to this episode a few times. But
it's today was a big one.
Speaker 1 (55:05):
Today was a big one.
Speaker 3 (55:07):
The prosecution brought their receipts today and I.
Speaker 1 (55:10):
Think this is the day.
Speaker 3 (55:13):
This is where the evidence is gonna slam the case
on Donna. What we saw today, I mean, I think
what we saw today is going to make or break
the case for the jury. It's whether or not they
believe the Patricia and China, and it's whether or not
(55:37):
what they saw in terms of the totality of evidence
of Donna's actions leading up to Charlie's trial and right
after Charlie's trial is evidence of a guilty conscience. That's
what That's what we're gonna see. That's I think that's
(55:57):
where we're going to see whether or not the jury believes.
And then we'll see if the defense can prove their
theory of blackmail extortion.
Speaker 1 (56:09):
We'll see.
Speaker 3 (56:10):
Yeah, and I'm super eager to see where you guys
stand with everything. We would love now you know, if
you guys are watching, or if you're not even watching
and you're just listening to these updates to Heather bringing
these updates, I want to know where you see or
team Janna I love that, or team Corbett I mean,
(56:32):
whenever you want. I'm team Capleman all the way.
Speaker 5 (56:36):
Yeah for sure. All right, we will talk to you
guys on Tuesday. Yeah, yeah, sorry, Senday Monday Tuesday. Who
have a good three day weekend. You guys be safe
out there and we'll talk.
Speaker 1 (56:49):
To you then.
Speaker 3 (56:50):
Kay.
Speaker 1 (56:50):
Love you bye, I love you bye.
Speaker 3 (57:07):
Last
Welcome to Like Mother Like Murder.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I am Rachel and I'm Heather.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
We bring you the good, the badass, and the crime.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
This is like Mother Like Murder, and.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
Right now is Like Mother Like Murders Trial updates, where
we will be providing daily coverage in the ongoing trial
of Donna Adelson for the murder of Dan Markel. We've
been covering this case for years now, and so far
four people have been found guilty in the plot to
murder this father of two young boys.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
And Donna Adelson, dan Markel's former mother in law, is
the latest conspirator to stand trial for this crime. Rachel
and I will be continuing to provide coverage every day
and will be joined by special guests throughout this special series.
We will be bringing you this every day that there
is trial coverage.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
So let's do this. So today is day Sace. It
is day six.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
The ongoing trial of Donna Adelson for the murder of
Dan Markel, and today has has got to be like
the most today, Oh my gosh, the most crazy day,
the most new information, bond romping information. Up until now,
(01:44):
everything has just been like foundational. I'm not sure how
much new information I.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Was gonna say foundational.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
But then also a lot of it is stuff that
you've you've said, has been said in other case, things
that have been heard, nothing really new up until today
because today was a lot focused on Donna.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Because I'm telling.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Youawser wowser before we get into it, Rachel, Yes, any
anything that like you want to say, like anything like
that really really sticks out in your head before we
get into it, or do you want to wait.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Until we like start talking about it.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Yeah, I was gonna say, I mean, we can go
in order because all I'll say is like the entire ending,
the entire last half of it stuck out, and you
know there's certain things that I'm just like the Okay,
there it is. That's the moment here, we have it.
I know, I know the amount of times I just
(02:45):
yelled guilty good right right? Like so yeah, I mean,
so like we before we get into today there uh
oh yeah, it's it's building.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
It's building and building and building.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
But before we get intoday, just because today is going
to be so hardcore, we need to say this at
the front. Everyone we talk about in this podcast, besides
Charlie Edelson, Katie Magbatawa sick Fredo Garcia and Luis Rivera,
who have already been tried and convicted for this crime.
But everyone we talk about in this podcast is innocent
until proven guilty. This is all allegedly and in our opinion,
(03:18):
because don Aedison is currently on trial for the murder
of Dan Marcel, conspiracies to commit murder of Dan Marcel,
and until she is proven guilty by a jury of
her peers, everything we say is alleged and in our opinions. Okay,
what if we started making up our own word Like
I was trying in my head to like mix like
(03:40):
alleged it alleged and guilty, and it does not go.
And it's the guh and the just. So I'm like, allegged.
If it's a legged, they're guilty, alleged guilty, they're dilligedly
they're guilty legidilly.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Nah, well that is not a good one. We know
that's not a good one because there's not a shirt
about it yet.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Will make a legit guilty anyway, So we so let's
let's get into it. We we started. We started back
that poor man that you guys, this is like day three,
and he was he you guys, he Sanford was an
(04:26):
entire another half of a whole day. He was there
until the lunch break, and I'm just like, oh my gosh,
and I feel like the entire court room they all
laughed about it. They giggled when he was finally released.
You know, it's like he deserved a round of applause.
And he he really I just I just this guy.
(04:49):
He and he really held his own and you could
tell that he, you know, he knew his stuff. I mean,
he had worked the case for years and years and years,
but it also had been you know, I'm I mean,
it's been we're going on a year and a half
fish since Donna had even been arrested, right, So it's
just been you know, it's been a while. And then
(05:10):
of course it's you know, so the fact that this
guy could even just maintain his composure through all of
it just props to you, Sanford. So we hear him
talk about they start, you know, they start off he's
talking about, you know, Katie collecting the money.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
And I don't know why I.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Wrote this down, and I kind of wrote like duh, Heather,
like I don't know why it never clicked to me before.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
But we talked about the fact.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
That you know when Katie went that night after the
murders and after the murderers had made it back down
to Miami, that she went to go collect the money
from Charlie and she ended up spending the night at
his house that night that he mentioned that, oh, my
parents just left. And then when she got her cut
of it a few days later, she touched the money
(05:53):
and she was like, oh, it was wet, and she
asked Charlie like, why is it wet?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
And he goes, oh, my mom washed it. I don't
know why.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
It never clicked for me before that, like his parents
had been there and dropped off money, like dropped off cash. Yeah.
But we go from there right into the infamous And
we heard a lot about this in the news right
after Charlie Adelson was convicted. Right after Charlie Adelson was convicted,
(06:23):
we hear a lot about his jailhouse phone calls between
him and Donna, and this is it's new and that
it has not been presented in a trial before because
obviously this is after Charlie had been convicted.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
But we did hear about this in the news.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
I remember reading about this and it is so what
happened is Charlie and Donna were on a call.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Of course, we know jail.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Hous calls can be recorded, and what happened was Charlie's
and hung up. So Charlie's and from the jail was
just connected. Donna I think must have assumed she hung up,
and yeah, I feel like she just thought not even
hang up. Like it just makes me think, you know,
how yourself and someone hangs up, it's like it's done
and it turns off.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yeah, it did not turn off, you guys.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
And what's crazier even, is like I feel like there's
and I'm sure it works a different way when you're
calling from a jail, especially if the line is tapped
at the but it's like it didn't even. It's like,
you know how like the call hangs up might like oh,
you know, after thirty seconds or something, it'll just automatically disconnect. No, no, no,
(07:37):
they have like minutes, yeah, minutes of recorded stuff. But
it's during this call where you're where you're listening to uh,
Donna and Harvey and what sounds like a few lawyers
or whoever else is sitting there and you're just like,
damn Donna and Uh, and you can tell she's upset,
(08:00):
and at one point you do feel a little bit.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
No, you don't feel bad.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
This is the first time that you see her. For me,
this was the first time that I saw her crying
throughout these six days. And I've already told you that
I've had moments where you know, I felt something or
you know, like my heart aches because it's like, why,
why did it ever have to get to this point,
(08:25):
you know, like, you guys had it great, you had
it so good, you know, and you're greedy, You're in
greedy is so bad, it's so bad. But seeing her cry,
I kept having this vision of like when Wendy was
on the stand and she was just deadlocks, staring her down,
(08:47):
just wanting to make eye contact with her. And I
truly don't think it ever happened. I think Wendy just think, yeah,
she was like I can't look over there. But to me,
it was like a very stone wick cold demeanor, right,
And that comes from I mean, there's a lot of
messages and there's a lot of stuff that where it's like,
(09:09):
you know, Wendy didn't reach out to her parents, she
didn't ever ask.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
About Charlie, and that hurt you know, Donna, because that's
your little baby whatever. But seeing her cry was like,
let's catching up.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Get what you get, what you get, Kara Karma. But
at one point she says this, and you're right, because
I'm like, well, you put yourself in this situation, right,
your choices, put yourself because she goes, I have one
son who doesn't talk to me. She's talking about Rob.
I have one son who doesn't talk to me. I
have one son with no help. She's talking about Charlie,
who was in jail, right, And she goes, and I
have a daughter who I love but doesn't also is
(09:44):
not in the process of not because she's just finished
talking about how Wendy is like because you know, the
the Charlie's been convicted, Wendy testified at Charlie's trial for
the state, and you know, told them everything. And she's
been saying like, look, I'm not going to talk to
you guys about anything to do with Charlie or the
(10:05):
case or anything like that. And you know, and she
she and like Rachel said, like they talk about how
like after the after the trial or even during you know,
Wendy tried to say, like, you know, mom, if you
need me, like, you know, I'm you know, I'm here,
like I know, it's like hard right now for everybody.
And and Donna was like kind of like mean back
(10:28):
to her daughter, like kind of taking Charlie's side over Wendy's.
I mean, we mentioned before how Donna felt that Wendy
didn't do enough to defend her brother, right, and so
Donna's response was like, you know, Wendy, Charlie's done so much.
He's protected his little sister all after all these years,
and all you have to say.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Is that and bla la la la, la la la.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
And like you said, like Charlie's her little baby, so
she's gonna whatever whatever. But it's also during this call
that we hear her talk about her plans for a visa, right,
And it is this call that detectives hear about this
and later you know, kind of confirm with some later
(11:10):
you know, catching up that they see that she's making plans,
she's buying tickets, and that this leads to the infamous
arrest at a at the airport, literally on the jetway,
you know, minutes away from boarding a plane, that Donna
and Harvey are taken into custody, and that they they
(11:35):
they get her phone.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
They then also get a search.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Warrant for her home and they gather some evidence from
her home as well. And uh and this is and
this is where you know, like mother like murder. I
was in an airport and I was like on my
phone recording an update you guys, Donna Adasan was at
an airport on our way to Vietnam. I ran the
(12:00):
wh for are you you going, oh my gosh, oh
my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, and like
texting me, sending me articles or whatever it was, and
just freaking out. And I'm like, oh my gosh, you
need to come home so we can record something together.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
And she's like, why I record a shit together? I'm
recording it right then.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
Second, I literally was like at an airport and luckily
I have like a super early morning flight. The airport
wasn't super loud, but of course all I have is
my phone, so I'm just.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Like, you know what it is, what it is?
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Yeah, And I was like, we gotta get it out.
That was I mean, that was absolute insanity. And so
that is when the state you know, wraps up, wraps
up with Special Agent Sandford. And then and then the
defense starts their cross and the poor guy like he
already has been on the stand for like, you know,
(12:49):
two and a half days at this point, and he
just looks exasperated. And then the lady, the female defense attorney,
I'm sorry you, guys, I still don't know her name,
and and he she gets up to do the cross
and I swear to god, guys, his sigh. He was
straight up like, and he has kept his composure so
good through this, but he straight up goes like, and
(13:10):
I the same thing, because she is I'm sorry, out
of the two defense attorneys, I feel like she is
the least prepared with these cross examinations.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
She is not good. She is not good.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
And she and and you'll see during her cross like
she tries to cross him on evidence that he didn't
even freaking testify.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
To and ask him, wait, was that you that?
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Yeah, testified to that, And he's like shaking her. We're
gonna have other people up here, We'll get to them.
Oh yeah, Like, are you joking, lady? You don't even
know what this man testify to, Like you're putting him
in the rest of the courtroom. Who's watched this this
guy testify for two and a half days through this stuff,
like lady gets truck stuck together. The only good thing
(13:57):
from her was the you know, mo of comedic relief
when she went up there and said, like, you know,
we're gonna have to rewatch every single or re listen
to every single one.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
And his face was like, was like, are you joking.
He's like, I would not do that to you or
anyone here, anyone in this courtroom. And he goes, thank you,
thank you.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
The other comedic thing that I found, which was and
I feel like she set herself up so perfectly for
anyone to just be like, you're dumb because of his
facial his facial expression said everything. So she says, you know,
so you listen to all the calls, you know, because
(14:39):
a big part of his testimony, right was going through
all the wiretapped calls. Yeah, and she says, so you
listened to all the calls and you considered everything in them, right,
And he's like, well, yeah, you know, we listen to
all them. We consider everything we listen to and she goes,
so you even consider when Charlie calls his mom and
he says to his mom, you didn't do anything to
(14:59):
anybody you you don't know anything. You considered that right too,
Like you considered that too, right, And he gets the
biggest smirk on his face like sure, yes, yeah I
considered it. And I'm like, yeah, we consider it a
fucking lie, we consider it.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
And I'm just like it's so.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Funny because she's like, you consider it right, And it's
just like he gets the biggest smirk on his face
and it's like, why would you set yourself up witness
to just completely like tell like it just with his
facial expression show like, oh you're stupid, Like yeah, yeah, yeah,
the last two days showing you why, like Charlie Adelson.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Is an idiot.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Yeah, you can just tell through these two days of
testimony that Charlie, Like anyone who just listens to two
days of Charlie Adelson prattling on.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Will be like no, right, yeah, that that was funny.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
But I mean to him, he was up there so
long and he he did I don't know him. I
didn't know who it was before any of this, but man,
he made a fan out of me. How he kept
me composure, He knew what he was doing. He was
very good at whenever someone said something that you know,
(16:22):
whenever she tried to like get him yeah, like yeah him,
or like set him up or whatever, where he just
had like a witty or like a just stop kind
of like him, you know, and I'm just like, oh
my gosh, love yeah, I love it. And he still
did it like respectfully, but just like a very like okay. Well,
and then I you know, she very subpar cross, but
(16:43):
she finishes up her And of course I could be
completely biased in this. I do think just in general,
her crosses are just not as good as as the gentleman's.
But also just like in general, I don't think the
defense is mounting a very good cross, but she finishes
up her cross and she He's basically asking, do you
have any direct evidence to suggest that Donald Adelson ever
(17:05):
threatened Dan MARKL? Do you have any direct evidence to
suggest that you know Donna Adelson wanted to kill Dan MARKL.
Do you have any direct evidence to suggest, basically in
any way that Donna Adelson is connected to Dan Markell's death,
to which he has to respond, No, I don't have
any direct evidence that Donna Aedelson was was uh was connected.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
To Dan Markell's death.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
And then Georgia freaking Kapelman, my freaking hero. She stands
up for redirect, and the first thing she does, did
you have circumstantial evidence right that Donna Adelson was was
r again? Mar that?
Speaker 1 (17:42):
And he goes a lot yeah, every class, Yeah, yes.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
And Georgia Capelman just really knows how to she knows
how to bring because you know, the whole point, right
of a of a of a across is to just
like negate everything that happened on Direct really almost try
to like throw you know, throw stones at it, make
it look like muddy the waters almost like if you
(18:14):
can't confuse the jury with it, make it look like
the witness doesn't know what they're talking about, and or
that all of it was trash. And you know, Georgia
Kapelman just really knows how to bring it right back
to the crux of the of the issue, which is,
you know, okay, but there's a shit yeah everything, And
there's a there's a part later where they bring Corbett back, y'all.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Corbett comes back to the stand. That's spin a shop
part of the day. Oh and you know, he.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Makes a very blatant statement and we'll get to it later,
but he goes these things on their own singularly, and
we mentioned this yesterday singularly.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
No, these things.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Don't, you know, make one look guilty. But when you
take all of these things together, the you know, put
them together and yes, you know this is that's the
whole point of circumstantial evidence. And then so finally, finally,
thank you Sandford for your for your contributions to this
case and to this trial. You have been an angel,
(19:13):
and we commend you on your testimony.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Yeah, I go home and take a month. What did
the judge say?
Speaker 3 (19:20):
He's like, you better get out while get into good,
get your ass out in here before we call you back.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
I said, they should have asked. They always have to ask, like,
you know, do you call him back? And you know,
do you plan on calling him back?
Speaker 3 (19:33):
And I'm pretty sure the can't of the audio didn't
quite pick it up, but I think Kapelman was like,
you know, that's not our intention to And so the
judge is like, you better.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Get gone after him. I feel like the next one
he wasn't. There wasn't much. I think that was a foundational.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
I think it was really just establishing that so he
was a he worked for Miami Dade Sheriff and he
was just someone who assisted on the on the search
and seizure from the Adolson home after Donna's arrest, just
making sure I think, just you know, this is the
stuff we collected from the home, yea. And I think
again it was just foundational stuff because later on you'll
(20:14):
see Corbett is back and testifying to some of the
some of more of the communications that were found after
the fact in terms of what he was able to
find with a planner, which was actually some interesting stuff,
and some other communications that were actually uncovered between Donna
(20:35):
and Charlie via WhatsApp, which was very interesting.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
But then we get to the nitty gritty. Then we
get to.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Some of the most jaw dropping and explosive testimony that
we have heard in this in this honestly probably in
this entire like set of trials so far. And it's crazy,
I mean, other than Louis Rivera, who you know obviously
(21:05):
has his story and you know what he experienced with
between Garcia and Katie mcbanewah, but like he never had
any direct contact with the atelsns. But now we have
some explosive testimony that is directly linking Donna to this
conspiracy and my job was on the ground this entire time,
(21:28):
this entire time.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Explosive, explosive.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
So the first person they bring out is Patrici Shippard,
and she is a Leon County inmate, and they established
that she she spent time in Leon County jail with
Donna for like six or seven months, and they established
that she's not been giving any deals for her testimony.
(21:53):
And then this lady just gets right into it, drops
her bomb that Donna. How the conversation went is that
Patricia Bird asked, did you do what you're in here for?
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Basically like, are you guilty of what they say you're
guilty for?
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Ye? And Donna straight up says, yeah, I did it
to keep my grandkids close. But it wasn't supposed to
go that far, and they kept it close in on
Patricia's face while she's testifying. But god, I wish I
would have seen in the moment.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Yeah, I know, I know. It's freaking crazy.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
So well, and it's crazy thinking too, because like, so
how you said she said she was you know, cellmates,
or they called it a different word, podmates, podmates, and
you know they were they befriended each other.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Her and the next one that we're about to talk
to or talk about.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
And it's like you, I could only imagine claiming or
or say someone's my friend in there and then sitting
across on stand, you know, like having to testify against
someone like that.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
That is absolute insanity.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
And I just could not imagine how you said looking
at Donna's face in that moment, if oh for sure,
Oh for sure, for sure, for sure. And except for
the other, the other one we're talking about, I feel
like she could just stood there and stared her down
the entire sol.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
For sure, Oh for sure.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
I know they were like totally different, yeah, like completely different.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Testimonies for sure. Yep.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
And then so basically what Patricia goes on to say,
as they say they established that Patricia had also previously
done time with Katie Magbaniwa, and she says that when
Donna found out that Patricia also did time with Katie,
(23:52):
that she told Patricia, Hey, you know what you should do,
is anyone who comes in here, anyone who will freaking listen, investigators,
my defense attorneys, anyone who will listen, tell them that.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Katie told you, right.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
So, like Donna is basically feeding Patricia's story that if Patricia,
any chance she gets, she should tell them to tell
an investigator this. Hey, Katie told me that Sigfredo Garcia
and Louis Rivera went and killed went and killed Dan
Markel because they knew that Katie's boyfriend I e Charlie,
(24:36):
that Katie's boyfriend's parents had.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Money, had money. Yep, okay, which.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Is basically the defense that was mounted by Charlie during
Charlie's trial. Right, that Katie, Sifredo and Louis Rivera did
this on their own and then after the fact went
in blackmailed Charlie, right, and then.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
So that was the story.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
And then Patricia said that in exchange, Donna said, and
when you know, when you get out, I'll get you
a trailer, I'll get you some land, and my husband
will fix your teeth for you.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Yeah, yeah, okay, the bribery mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
And then Patricia also testified that Donna would also get
her gifts from the canteen, which is like the sore inside,
and that she would get her gifts from the canteen
when they were.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Still obviously like in jail.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Okay, So then they confirmed, so did Katie ever tell
you any of this?
Speaker 1 (25:35):
And She's like no.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
And then they were like, but you did go and
tell people this, and she goes, yeah, I went and
told this stuff to investigators, but I told them that
none of it's true.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
But Donna told me to stay.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Right right, And she explains that you know, some of
the other girls, like, you know, Donna had said this
to some of the other girls, and the other girls
had said it, and that Patricia explained this to her
own attorney, and that at that point is when her attorney,
her attorney told it to the state's attorney's office, who
(26:07):
then contacted her. And so straightforward just some perjury and bribery, yeah,
possibly fraud, just some straightforward bullshit, okay. And and so
just what she was doing, she knew what she was doing.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
It's it's so clear.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Yeah, yeah, and this is just some this just like
this seems very This to me just seems right up
Donna's alley. Yeah, because the the manipulation, the the the
very she puppeteering, the exactly exactly like the very like masterminding,
(26:54):
the very like playing my exactly puppeteer. I'm gonna move
my pieces here here in the other And so to me,
it just it makes perfect sense for it fits the
character fits it fits it, and then they so they
they do cross, and basically on cross, they're just trying
to establish that she's potentially not a reliable witness. I mean,
(27:17):
we've got a jail house informant. If y'all have listened
to Like Mother Like Murder, you've heard us talk about
jail house informance. But obviously the prosecution, you know, tried
to establish at the very beginning of her testimony, you're
not getting anything out of this. You're just telling us something.
You're not getting out of jail for this. You're not
getting a reduced sentence out of this. You have no
(27:38):
deal on the table for this. And they're like and
she's like, yeah, I've not been given anything for this,
and and that's it. But I feel like there was
a moment during this cross that I feel like something
he said I had to rewind it, and I was like,
I feel like you kind of fucked up, because if
you really listen to your two it, you're like, Okay,
(28:01):
like the way you're saying it, yeah, maybe that's not
like a guilt an admission of guilt, but like the
way the jury could have heard it maybe made it
makes it sound like you just said something bad about
your your your client, which is not good. So at
one point he brings up that, he brings up that
(28:26):
he says, you testified that Donna said it wasn't supposed
to go that far, and the witness responds, that's correct,
and he said, isn't it true that all she did
was right checks to miss mag Banawah And and I'm.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Like, so I forgot to say alleged guilty in there.
I like, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
It didn't aren't you just to say, isn't it true
exactly that that you you know, like, isn't it like exactly?
Speaker 1 (28:58):
And I'm like, you just admitted and so.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
But but like at the end of the day, maybe
they've stipulated that, yes, Donna Adelson wrote the checks because
because that is part of Charlie's defense, and I'm assuming
we're gonna hear next week that that's part of their
defense that she was cutting checks to Katie because she
was being blackmailed. So maybe they're stipulating that, yeah, Donna
did write the checks. But I'm like, it just makes
(29:22):
her seem guilty. And if you, I mean, she's guilty
of something, you're guilty of something she is, yeah, and
then so it's just it's I don't know, it's just it.
I didn't like the way it sounded. It made it
seem like she's guilty before they've even provided their defense
of she's she's only guilty of being a victim of
(29:46):
blackmail or something like that, you know what I mean.
So anyway, uh so they wrap up, they wrap up Patricia,
and then they bring out miss Drina Burnhart. So tell
that's what your thoughts are about Drina Drina Bernhardt. I mean,
we were talking about her a little bit, like a
little before we got on, and to me, I feel
(30:11):
like she what did I call her? I feel like
she's just like a professional in what she's doing and
like how she held herself up there where it's like
just straight like, look, I don't want to be here.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
I'm over all of this.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
I've you know, it's clear when they talk to her
that she's been in and out, She's she's served some time.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
So it's like she's this veteran.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Criminal and yeah, and she I don't know, like if
they'd never say if she's ever been on other cases
or worked worked as like an informant or like done
anything else like that. But to me, it's like she
she sat there and was just kind of like, look,
this part of the game. It is, this is part
of the lot. What it is.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Yeah, I'm gonna tell you what.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
I know what I heard, and I don't really care
about anything. To me, it was like a I don't
care vibe, but also like a just like straight matter
of fact person, Yes I would.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
I would agree with that.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
And so just like they do, and this is really
I mean, this is something that they do, and it's
something that that's important that they establish, especially from the
prosecutor side, to show.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Like we are not trying to hide anything.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
They go through her history, like she has a criminal
RECORDR and an extensive one, and you come to find
out that a lot of it is related to substance issues.
She's been in and out of jails, she's been in
and out of rehab programs some like, and you know
that that's some of these previous convictions did in tail
(31:54):
being untruthful in some way, shape or form, which makes
me think like fraud, maybe passing bad check in some way,
stealing to get extra money, you know, anything like that.
When it comes to substance you, I mean, you can
use your imagination to think of what people will do
for extra money to get right, so it you know,
that tracks for me.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
So they bring her out.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
Though, and they established that she spent several months I
think they said like four months, five months with Donna Adelson.
And one thing that the one thing she said early
on is that she said that like, yeah, yeah, Donna
referred Donna referred to her as her what jail house daughter.
It was so weird, something along those lines, something daughter, yeah,
(32:40):
and then they and then other like creepy things. She
said that sometimes she would refer to her grandchildren, the boys,
as her children. I always have a problem with that
weird sense of like, and I'm also like a involved, happy, helpful,
(33:00):
don't get me wrong, Hells to the Yeah, I'm all
for the support of grandparent, but that weird possessiveness of
your grandchildren knowing who she is, I mean, given all
the circumstantial and stuff, I can see why if it
was anyone else then someone did that.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
I'm over here, like I call my kid my dog,
I call my mom.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
My brother, like I'm always like, oh yeah, you know,
so it's like I I do that, so I totally see.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
And she's older.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
She could simply be talking about, oh my kids, Oh,
I mean my grandkids are something.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
But based on everything I.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Can to it was like a slip of the tongue thing.
But I the way that she the way that Drina
explained it, it was like a purposeful thing that she said,
like my children, Oh, I must.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
See that, like I missed that. For sure. It was
really good. She's that.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
She also, you know, in talking about the case often,
which is something you know, apparently she did that. She
brought up that she was worried about Rob's testimony. Rob
had never testified before we talked about this, and she
specifically said she was worried about Rob's testimony.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
And then of.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
Course they talk about Katie and the fact that Drina,
just like Patricia, has also done time with Katie. Yeah,
and then we get into the fact that or the
alleged the allegedness that the same deal or similar deal
that was made with Patricia was made here again with Trina,
(34:29):
that she wanted Drina to testify to some statements about Katie.
But this time Donna allegedly went so far as preparing
a script for Gina, Drina, Drena.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Yeah for Drina.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
That basically is almost word for word Charlie Adelson's defense.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Okay, that.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Like Katie since went and did this, went and murdered
Dan Markel and then after the fact like told Charlie
pay me or I'm about.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
To tell everyone. Yeah okay.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
And Drina in exchange, got gift baskets like foods and stuff.
She got phone calls paid for and then if she
was to ever get out, she would get wired tin
k from Harvey, she would get a grand piano, random,
she would get a camera and Donna And if this
(35:35):
is true, this really, really, extremely so much pisses me
off because now not only is Donna a horrible liar,
but she also has zero heart because she doesn't care
about a substance user who has a problem with substance use.
She said, Oh, I know a guy who can get
you pills. You don't say that to someone who's been
(35:58):
in and out of rehabit has a problem with pills
and is in the middle of you know, County, probably
dealing with you know, withdraw and like, what the fuck?
That part really pissed me out. That's disgusting, absolutely disgusting.
So they bring up and they you know, they established this,
they established the script and Carverina still has from County
(36:25):
where she had the script right that her and Donna
had gone over. So during cross they pointed the fact
that she has sent a letter, and they.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Basically again doing the same thing.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
They're trying to establish that she's an unreliable witness. And
what they're trying to do is they're trying to say
that the timing of her telling people about this ended
up going coinciding with when she was released at a
certain time. So basically what happened was she sent a
(37:01):
letter saying I have information that Donna Edelson is trying
to like, you know, get me to testify to some
false information. And then a few months later she's released.
And but the witness, Trina, she did a good job.
She held her ground. She was like, that's not why
it was released because of this letter.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
They continuously tried to just be like, oh, this is
exactly why you got out because of this, and she's like,
you know that's now, and she's just like yeah, yeah,
And again, you know, they're just trying to make her
an unreliable witness. They're basically trying to say, like this, look,
we can't trust this person's information because they only did
it to get an early release.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
And look, she wasn't.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
She did get an early release, And basically what they're
trying to say is like, look, she was facing a
substantial sentence and if she could come to some kind
of agreement, she wouldn't have that sentence. And basically they're
trying to do that. But the thing is, we mentioned
this before. She she had been in and out of jail,
(38:04):
she did have to have a substance use problem. She'd
also been in and out of rehab.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
So what it makes me think is that.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
Her release, there's a really really good chance that her
release had nothing to do with this. I mean, it
could have. Who freaking knows how that. You know, we
know the justice system isn't always the most you know, golden,
you know, everything works perfectly and it's all above ground
and YadA, YadA, YadA. We're right, But there's a lot
(38:30):
of times where like the release happens because they know
go to rehab. That we know a lot of times
here's your options, more jail or rehab. Pick I mean,
how many times is that especially for a young woman. Yeah,
you know, who knows. Maybe she's a mom.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
We don't know. They didn't get into that.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
But like they give people an option sometimes, do you
which one do you prefer? And and then on top
of that, what we find out during cross as well
is that sure she was released, but now she's back
in County for a different thing, and her testimony that
(39:13):
day currently on that day, she's not getting a deal
for her continued cooperation exactly. Okay, So maybe she made
all of that up about Donna. She could have made
all of it up. She could have been behind the
whole thing. She could have written it out by herself
and said, Donna Agelson told me to say this, that
(39:33):
and the other, and maybe she somehow convinced Patricia to
say the same lie. And maybe she wrote this all
out and did the whole thing and copied handwriting and
did the whole thing. Why in the hell would she
go through all the effort to now a year later,
still be coming to trial if she's now not getting
anything out of right, Yeah, because now she's on a
(39:56):
whole other like she failed her probation again and she
started using again, or I think that was the that
was why she failed her probation again, she started using again,
and now she's back in jail for a whole other thing.
She's not getting any deals out of this testimony, this
continued cooperation. So I mean it makes it's like it
(40:16):
does make a question. Okay, well maybe you can't rely
on but she's not getting anything. And like you said,
she does a matter of fact, that she really made
all this stuff up.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Why would she continue to waste her time with this ship.
She's not getting anything out of it. Now, what was
she getting out of it now? Nothing?
Speaker 3 (40:36):
So here's the other thing that makes me think that
you can believe her is and this is another thing,
because this is this you find out on cross. So
Georgia Kapelman says, Okay, so that all happened to you
blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
But now you're back in jail, and are you getting
anything for what's happening.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
No, you're you're gonna have to be accountable, accountable for
the what you recently got, you know, arrested for. Yeah,
and it's not gonna have anything to do with this strout. No.
And she again she's very straight like, she's very straightforward
about it. Yeah, And the other thing is that I
(41:17):
love it. Georgia Kapelman comes in, throws her freaking punches down,
and the defense is whole freaking timeline.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
It's so bait because.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
What's in the script, it's so specific to Charlie's trial.
If it didn't come from Donna, and let's say, unless
it really did come from Katie, and Katie really did
do all of that stuff, and she really did tell
Patricia and Drina this is exactly what I did and
(41:50):
exactly how I did it. And Drina wrote that all
down and remembered it perfectly from right when was that
was way back in like what twenty way earlier, even earlier, when.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
She would have talked with.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
Would she when she was her way earlier that he
would have like that Drina would have remembered it or
wrote it down or whatever way way earlier. Like the
details that Drina had written down, like it was like
the third of a million dollars, because if you remember,
they were going to offer Dan markl a third of
like or a million dollars and a third was gonna
(42:28):
come from Charlie and then a third or third of whatever,
Like everything was super detail. Either either they had gotten
the facts somehow, Yeah, and had been like day for
day watching Charlie Adelson's case, which I don't know they
have TVs in jail, but I can't imagine they let
(42:50):
them watch trial ship in jail, especially that you're standing
next to or yeah, or she was fed that freaking information, right, Yeah,
there's no way, There's no way.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
And on top of that.
Speaker 3 (43:04):
After Drina gets off the stand, Kaplaman does a great
job on redirect. They bring in this crime lab analyst
and say what you will about handwriting.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
I'm still fifty fifty. I don't know about it.
Speaker 3 (43:17):
She comes in and says, Donna Adelson wrote this.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Ye, so because she did allegedly.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
Like the way, and then we'll get back to the
script because Corbett. Corbett also is able to give us
some information.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
He's awesome, that freaking Corbett. Poor guy. He's come back.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
So now with him, between him and Sanford, it's they've
literally taken up like eighty percent. Seriously, Yeah, yeah, he's back,
and heal me. He really only has like the last
like thirty minutes of the day. He's not there too
much today. It's quick, but he brings some really really
good evidence ye, Corbett brings some really good evidence, and
(44:03):
I understand now why they have to bring him back,
because I think basically the reason they brought the random
dude back was to establish, like, this is some of
the stuff we seized from Donna after her arrest. Yeah,
and then they bring Corbett back because he analyzed the
stuff that was ceased, So they bring him back. And
one thing that they had found was in the script
(44:28):
that Drina had had in one of the things the
word extort. So supposedly Katie magnaniwa and if you listened
today day four and five, you heard Kate talk a lot.
She supposedly use the word extort. Katie said, we extorted Charlie,
(44:53):
and the word extort was underlined. Now prosecution had drawn
like had zeroed in on this earlier in the day.
Today they said, and you can see there that the
word extore is underlined.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Did you do that, Drina?
Speaker 3 (45:05):
And Gene is like, no, I didn't do that. It
would have been right. Donna like, I don't, Yeah, I
would extort mean anything. And I was also like, why
are you drawing attention to like, like that's weird. Why
would you draw attention to the word extore. And then
they're talking to Corbett and the prosecution says, okay, what's
significant about the word extore? And Corbett says that when
(45:28):
they have seized Donna's computer, I think this came up
on the computer that he testified that a week before
Charlie Adelson's trial, Donna had searched She had basically googled
or searched up what's extort versus blackmail?
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Yeah, yep.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
And they point that she looked this up in twenty
twenty three, a week before Charlie Adelson's trial, even though
she supposedly her and Charlie had been the victims of
this yeah scheme since twenty fourteen, and now she's only
just now trying to google some other stuff too, And
she googled some other stuff. What was the other stuff
that she googled?
Speaker 1 (46:12):
You know, where she should go? What is not an.
Speaker 3 (46:16):
X the edition country? And they also found on her
computer chats about how to get her uh via the
Vietnam fast tracked And was Vietnam one of the countries
listed as a non extradition country. It definitely was, and
and the other part of that was her yeah, fast
(46:42):
tracking it there. But then also a one way, one
way ticket, you know, so mm hmmm. Then they also
they also have Corbett talking about because this word extore
and this whole idea that because and it's good and
the prosecution is really really smart in the way that
(47:04):
they they bring Corbett back and they kind of because
otherwise they would have had to talk about this, you know,
three days ago, and it's not expression the jury's mind.
They're so smart for doing this. They bring up this
idea of extortion, and they bring up this idea of
the blackmail, and they're really looping this back around because
they know that this is most likely the way the
(47:24):
defense is going to play this, that they're going to
right up there on Tuesday. The defense is going to
come back on Tuesday and say don Agelson is the.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
Victim of extortion. This is all Katie mcbeannalla's pall.
Speaker 3 (47:35):
And what they did today was they established through Corbett,
who's been through all the communications that between all the
communications between Katie and Charlie, Katie who was supposedly extorting Charlie,
they never mentioned extort. In fact, all of their messages
are very lovey dovey. All their messages are downright flirty
(47:55):
even when they're not together. Correct, there are things like, ah,
I'm so happy I have you in my life. You're
such a good friend.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
No no, no, no no mm hm.
Speaker 3 (48:02):
That all of the messages between Charlie and Donna, including
the WhatsApp messages, which is supposed to be an end
to end encryption, where they should have been able to
speak freely to one another if they were worried about
getting caught about something right nefarious, never mentioned extortion, never mentioned, Hey,
are we still.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
Okay on our little problem?
Speaker 3 (48:23):
Like, never mention anything anywhere about any of that. And
they're really smart to bring this back around on their
last day that they are able to present evidence that
nowhere anywhere during this time when evidence shows that they
are still paying Katie Magbanawah her regular checks, that they
(48:45):
are mentioning that this is in any way related to extortion. Right,
And the defense is going to get up there next
week and say she was extorting her. Show us where,
show us where, Show us aware, because where was it?
The hairs will not be able to show anywhere. The
only evidence they're going to be able to say that
(49:06):
there was extortion is my guest, Charlie Aedelson's gonna come
up there and.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
Say I was being extorted and my mom, what's being extorted?
Speaker 3 (49:13):
Yeah, that's the only place they're gonna wear's the receipts?
Where are they? Because we've seen a lot of stuff.
What are you holding out on that we don't know
that we don't see? I'd love to see it, uh huh. Yeah,
And that's where we and then the defense rested, the
prosecution rest Oh, you're right, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
The prosecution rested.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
I wish the defense was resting because I'm not even
other than honestly, I am excited to hear Charlie because
he's just gonna make a full of himself.
Speaker 1 (49:44):
He's gonna make a full of himself.
Speaker 3 (49:47):
So I mean, that'll be one of the kids that
makes eye contact with his mom.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
Yeah, they're just gonna like weird, weird codependent relationship there.
Speaker 3 (49:58):
But I do want another funny thing, you know, I
always look for these little funny moments.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
But the whole conversation.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
About the plates in the closet and laughing in the way,
so it is like hilarious they're talking about so in
the pictures from when they went, you know, and searched.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
Stay home.
Speaker 3 (50:24):
Yeah, a closet in the bedroom there's plates, and it's
like why would there be plates?
Speaker 1 (50:30):
Why are there plates? Who has plates in there? Or whatever?
Speaker 3 (50:32):
And it was the defense that was up there right
saying something along the lines of like.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
Would you have plates in your closet? And Corbett's like, no,
probably no.
Speaker 3 (50:45):
And then as soon as like he walked away to
go get something, came back he's like, I actually need
to fix my last statement, like I should clarify my
guess bedroom.
Speaker 1 (50:56):
He was so funny, and then.
Speaker 3 (50:59):
Like after if they had finished for the day, he's
like he's like, my wife keeps them there. They're really
really nice plates. They're in these like really like clear
plastic things. They're like you know, like like your wedding
china or whatever that you get like the collectible plates
or whatever. Is what I'm saying, I have plates in
my downstairs closet. It was so I have plates, Well
I don't have They're in the garage. But they're like
(51:21):
the nice like super plate like they're their antique ones
like I would never actually eat off of, but I don't.
We keep them, and so it's just like but it was,
but freaking Corbett, man, I mean at.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
One point he had the jury laughing.
Speaker 3 (51:33):
At one point even even Sanford had them laughing. Like
it is again, I think it's important, especially for guys
like Corbet and especially for guys like Sandford who have
to spend such a long time on the stand and
a lot of their testimony is like listening to calls
and calls and calls and reading over this and this
and this. It can be very drab, which can make
(51:55):
a jury be like this guy is boring and annoying, right,
you know, which is not supposed to impact how they would,
you know, vote and how would they would feel about
the evisidence being presented.
Speaker 1 (52:06):
But people are people.
Speaker 3 (52:08):
It's important that like you're all trying to get through
the day, right there. Yeah, like and so it's it's
you're I'm glad you brought that up. That was it
was making me la, but then it just made me
love Georgia as well even more. She goes up there exactly,
she's like, she totally has to bring.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
That up before. What you like, what's going on with
your plate? Your wife did what your wife? And well,
and I'm glad you brought that up because there was
one thing I.
Speaker 3 (52:33):
Wanted to ask or is how you finished talking about
with Corbett? Was they asked him because they were talking
about this, they were like, does a visa make it
a ninety day visa mean you're leaving the country forever?
And he's like, by itself no, And he's like, does
(52:55):
selling some stuff make it mean you're leaving the country forever?
He's like, by itself no, and he's answering the same
way you know that Stanford Day is like, what you're
telling what you're trying to set me up to make
it sound like no. But but the way they answer
so well that they're like, yeah, you're answering no, but
(53:16):
you put that all together, that's circumstantial evidence in by
itself no, but you put.
Speaker 1 (53:23):
It all together and ALLEGI guilty. See it worksty I
like it And that's where we fit.
Speaker 3 (53:37):
Yeah, and now we get we get three days off,
three day. We've been at it every single day, you guys.
We get it on six, We get on at six o'clock,
We have this conversation, we watch.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
It throughout the day.
Speaker 3 (53:50):
It's been a full lot today, podcasting days this entire
week because we're watching this trial all throughout the day.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
And then we get on.
Speaker 3 (53:58):
We do this, we edit, we get it out, and
we're gonna enjoy our three day weekend. But we'll be
back at it on Tuesday because Defense is gonna start
on Tuesday, and I hope that Charlie starts because we
have Tuesday Wednesday. We get on flights on Thursday, and
I'm like, please don't do Charlie on Thursday.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
I know, because I got a watch, Like I guess.
Speaker 3 (54:21):
To see the first time that I'm gonna pay for
Wi Fi on a plane.
Speaker 1 (54:28):
Charlie. Well, yeah, because you have a long flight.
Speaker 3 (54:31):
My flight's short, so like I should be able to
catch up with stuff and see too bad.
Speaker 1 (54:38):
I have no idea how long it is, but I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (54:42):
But we we hope you guys all enjoy your long weekend.
Speaker 1 (54:46):
Please be safe.
Speaker 3 (54:48):
Uh if you haven't already, go catch up on on
the last couple episodes. Today is definitely the day.
Speaker 1 (54:55):
You know, if you.
Speaker 3 (54:55):
Want to go back and watch today's trial, you should,
or just listen to this episode a few times. But
it's today was a big one.
Speaker 1 (55:05):
Today was a big one.
Speaker 3 (55:07):
The prosecution brought their receipts today and I.
Speaker 1 (55:10):
Think this is the day.
Speaker 3 (55:13):
This is where the evidence is gonna slam the case
on Donna. What we saw today, I mean, I think
what we saw today is going to make or break
the case for the jury. It's whether or not they
believe the Patricia and China, and it's whether or not
(55:37):
what they saw in terms of the totality of evidence
of Donna's actions leading up to Charlie's trial and right
after Charlie's trial is evidence of a guilty conscience. That's
what That's what we're gonna see. That's I think that's
(55:57):
where we're going to see whether or not the jury believes.
And then we'll see if the defense can prove their
theory of blackmail extortion.
Speaker 1 (56:09):
We'll see.
Speaker 3 (56:10):
Yeah, and I'm super eager to see where you guys
stand with everything. We would love now you know, if
you guys are watching, or if you're not even watching
and you're just listening to these updates to Heather bringing
these updates, I want to know where you see or
team Janna I love that, or team Corbett I mean,
(56:32):
whenever you want. I'm team Capleman all the way.
Speaker 5 (56:36):
Yeah for sure. All right, we will talk to you
guys on Tuesday. Yeah, yeah, sorry, Senday Monday Tuesday. Who
have a good three day weekend. You guys be safe
out there and we'll talk.
Speaker 1 (56:49):
To you then.
Speaker 3 (56:50):
Kay.
Speaker 1 (56:50):
Love you bye, I love you bye.
Speaker 3 (57:07):
Last
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