MMIW - Heather Cameron-Haller - She called 911 for help and was never seen again - Like Mother Like Murder

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
According to a national survey, the group of women with
the highest percentage of lifetime prevalence of intimate partner violence
is American, Indian or Alaska Native at fifty seven point
seven percent, which is over ten percent higher than the
national average. Rates of other violent crimes, including abduction, rape,

(00:22):
and murder are all higher than national average, and on
some reservations, these women face murder rates more.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Than ten times the national average.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
Very often, disappearances and murders are directly linked to domestic violence,
dating violence, and sexual assault. Today's case gives a name
to these numbers. Heather Cameron Haller on August eighteen, twenty twelve,
after being picked up by an ex boyfriend. This mother

(00:54):
afore went missing from a role part of Redding, California,
after placing multiple nine one one calls where she said
she had been drugged and she needed help. Heather was
never seen again.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
Welcome to Like Mother Like Murder. I am Rachel and
I'm Heather. We bring you the good, the badass, and
the crime. This is Like Mother, Like Murder. Hello everyone,

(01:41):
Welcome to Like Mother Like Murder, your favorite true crime
mom cast. I am Rachel and I am Heather.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
And each week we bring you mom related true crime
content from missing moms to murdered moms, moms who murder, survivors.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
And much much, much, much, much much more. Yes, that
is what we do. If you're new here, welcome, Hello.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
We typically start off we have a little chat session,
not too long, I promise, but if that's not what
you're here for, you can always fast forward. But Heather,
right off the bat, I have a story that I
have to tell you. Okay, okay, So for anyone listening
right now, if you've been listening this whole time.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
Or I you know me, Heather, you know me, I'm
a little bit I'm a little competitive. No, just just
a little bit competitive.

Speaker 3 (02:36):
So this is just who I am as a person.
And I So my daughter plays soccer, as did I,
and while she was at practice, I'm kind of stepping
back right now because I've needed to just, you know,
step back a little bit from her soccer practices. So
Joel and I we walked to the batting cages, and

(02:56):
of course, the entire way that we walk to the
batting cages, I just talk mad shit about how great
I am at everything I do in life. And so
I get to the batting cages, we get the tokens.
We just got one token each because we were just
gonna mess around and then leave. I did not hit
a single ball twenty pitches. I did not make contact

(03:18):
with a single ball.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
Heather, I, I have never been so humiliated in my life.

Speaker 3 (03:27):
Okay, So that's the funnier part, because Joel is looking
at me like, what is happening?

Speaker 2 (03:34):
What's happening? Because I mean, if you know, like this
is not normal. So he's staring at me. He's like, dude,
what's up?

Speaker 3 (03:42):
And I wish, I wish, I wish to my core,
I had a reason. Oh my back hurt. Oh I
can't see. Oh no, I was perfectly fine.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
I do there's not wrong. I do not know.

Speaker 3 (03:55):
And so of course now he's gonna bat and I'm
supposed to be there and watch him. No, I take
my ass to get two more tokens because this is
unacceptable behavior.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
I missed nineteen more balls. I only made one contact
out of forty pitches. Rachel, what's wrong, Heather? I I
am unwell. I am emotionally and mentally.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
Rachel's gonna be back at the batting key just today. Oh,
I guess out Okay. I called my younger brother this
morning and had to shout shout on the phone and
explain that this is just crazy and that afterwards, when
we were walking back, Joel just kept looking at me like,
are you kissing serious?

Speaker 2 (04:40):
And I'm like, because.

Speaker 3 (04:40):
Now I don't know what I'm worried about, not only
like your physical like well being, but also like mentally.
Rachel's not gonna be able to stop thinking about this
for the next month. I haven't stopped for the last
fourteen hours. Okay, it has been weighing on me.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
No, it hasn't even been fourteen hours. It hasn't even
been twelve. I am going to go back today. It's
just a matter of time. Like it is happening.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
I will update you guys on what happens, because we
need nice again.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
I will live there. I will apply to work for
the city here. I will get a job as a
parks and w rec person, which I've done before in
my life, so I have the experience, no reason not
to hire me, and I will work at the batting cages. Okay. Also,
just another.

Speaker 3 (05:23):
Side note, there was at least forty little kids watching me,
so I'm sure that was like their best day ever.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
Yeah, like why would she try again so bad? Because kids,
we don't give up. We do not give up. At
that point, I should have, but no, I'm gonna go
back and I am worried about you. Though. That was
very not normal Rachel. I can usually hit, so it

(05:51):
was really funny because when I missed like the first
like six or seven balls, I was like, obviously something's wrong.
So then I switch.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
I go to the other side because I can typically
do that as well. And I couldn't hit lefty. I
couldn't hit righty. I couldn't put my arm out and
just bump the ball. I couldn't do a damn thing.
There was no contact with me this bat.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
And a ball. I'm screaming right now, you guys, I'm
so sorry. This is just something wrong. It's criminal. It's criminal,
I'm think. So I'm legitimately worried about you right now. Yeah,
you should be like, how many fingers am I holding you? Two?
I'm scared two strikes. I was out, not even three.

(06:36):
It was a problem, and it was such a problem.

Speaker 3 (06:39):
So that okay, because like what if like we turned
the age that we turned this year and now we
just like don't have.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
The ability anymore. I feel like I need to and
see yeah, if I have my skills still well and
you know that.

Speaker 3 (06:56):
Like so on the way over there, I'm talking all
this ship like I said, whatever, jels like, oh, I'm
just happy if I hit one because you know.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
He's like my back hurt. Alf. Yeah, that dude was
just like think bank, think think you know what. I'm like, okay, okay,
pro show off. But he was so concerned for me, dude,
no joke. One of the girls I go to the
gym with was sitting there when I came out.

Speaker 3 (07:25):
The first time I made eye contact with her, she
looked away, like she didn't even look at me anymore.
She was like, no, you're actually humiliating me in this moment.
She's like, she like texted you later, I'm sorry, but
I can't be seen at the gym. Yeah, just we
can't work out together anymore because what was that.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
I can't have me running off on me, you know,
just too bad.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
Okay, I need to be informed immediately what happens next
in this saga, because I I am now concerned not
only for your well being, but I'm a little concerned
for mine.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
I'm scared. You better go too. I need to go
to I need to go.

Speaker 3 (08:13):
I've been saying I was gonna go to the batting
cages for like since I moved here.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
I love the batting cages. Yeah, and that I am
hurt right now. I'm hurt for you. Uh.

Speaker 3 (08:30):
Actually I was gonna say, unhurt me. But obviously you
know this podcast will not unhurt me.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
No, You're gonna be hurt today.

Speaker 3 (08:36):
Yeah, in in a different way. This this case that
I have for you today is it's gonna be hurtful.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
It's gonna be a little bit infuriating.

Speaker 3 (08:48):
Actually, and uh, but it's it's gonna be an important
thing to talk about, uh, especially as as of the
recording of this episode.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
You guys, it is officially October. This episode will come
out next week, will be well into October, but we
are officially in October.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
And for those of you who.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
Do not know, October is Domestic Violence Awareness Month. Rachel
and I will be focusing on some cases the next
couple of weeks with that in mind, and before so,
before we start, let's just provide some information related to that.
The national the National Domestic Violence Hotline, if you need

(09:34):
resources for yourself, for your loved ones. If you need
help information, you can call one eight hundred seven nine
to nine safe, so that's one eight hundred seven ninety
nine seven two three three, or you can text start
so the word start start to eight eight seven eight eight.

(10:00):
If you also want to just go to the National
Domestic Violence website. There's also a live chat option. Everything
is free, everything is confidential. They have a lot of resources.
They also have I mean that this is a national website,
but they have a lot of links to local resources

(10:20):
in your area that you can also go to.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
And again this is you know, lots.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
Of different resources if you someone you love is needing
help right now.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
So we're gonna start off with.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
That, yeah, and then we'll get into get into today's case.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
All right, sounds good, let's do it. So.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
According to the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey,
this is a national survey that is put on by
the CDC, it's forty seven point three percent of women
in the United States has reported intimate partner violence at
some point in their lifetime. So when you think about that,

(11:30):
that is almost one of every two women.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
Yeah, that number is ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (11:35):
Exactly every other woman you know, if you think about that,
forty seven point three percent, almost every other woman you know,
at some.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
Point in their lifetime.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
Has has dealt with some kind of intimate partner violence.
And like Rachel just said, it should go without saying
that an violence against women is deplorable.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
It should not be happy against anyone is deplorable. True, yes,
thank you, but but it is.

Speaker 3 (12:09):
It's crazy to think that way, to know that, like
it's typically it's like almost half half right there, and
that it's too one is too many, one is too many,
and you're telling me that.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
It's literally every other person. That's crazy.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
And we've talked about this before when it comes to
various groups of women, but there are certain groups of
women who, unfortunately they have to contend with this violence.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
More than other groups.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
For decades, indigenous peoples, including American, Indian and Alaska Native women,
have had to contend with.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
Higher rates of violence.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
So I'm gonna put some numbers out, but let's remember
that it is possible and most likely very very very
probable that these numbers are underestimated.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
And or very very likely under reported. Correct.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
So, according to this national survey, the group with the
highest percentage of lifetime prevalence of intimate partner violence is
this group American Indian or Alaska Native women at fifty
seven point seven percent, So that's over ten percent higher
than the national average for this group. It isn't just

(13:34):
intimate partner violence. Rates of other violent crimes abduction, rape, murder,
all higher than the national average.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
And when we're looking.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
At just the sheer number of cases for missing and murdered,
the group of women, this group of women, they make.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
Up a significant proportion of the cases. Even though when
you look.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
At how the pop breaks down, American Indian and Alaska
Native women make up less than one percent of the population, right,
but when you look at their proportion in terms of
missing and murdered, they're a significant proportion of all the cases. Yeah,

(14:18):
that's that's humiliating, you guys, That is humiliating.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
Sorry, go ahead. It's so upsetting to even it is
about that. I mean, we we've.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
Talked about this before, We've covered cases before. It's a problem,
it's an epidemic. We it's something that especially here where
I where I am, the Pacific Northwest, where there is
a larger population of this group, this is something that

(14:51):
that really is important and needs to be heard nationwide.
But there there is an epidemic, and this is the
alarming amount of abductions and murdered and missing of these
women is just one of the most devastating issues in

(15:13):
these communities, and it's ones that has for a very
long time gone just completely ignored and still, I mean,
to this day, is not talked about enough. The fact
of the matter is on some of these reservations, these
women face murder rates more than ten times the national average.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
Like this is how bad it is.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
Unfortunately, very often, these disappearances, these murders, they are directly
linked to domestic violence and sexual assault. I mean, that's
just how it plays out. That was a lot of numbers,
there's a lot of statistics. There's a lot of things

(15:58):
that we threw at you. So today we're going to
highlight a case that actually puts a name to these numbers,
puts a name on these statistics. Unfortunately, it's a name
that was in the news a lot ten plus years ago,
especially locally in California. But unfortunately, as the years have

(16:22):
gone by, you try to look up something more recent,
there's not.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
A lot out there. I get just stopped yep, which is.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
Unfortunately the way this happens. But that's why a lot
of times we bring up these cases, these names, because
let's just do what we can to keep it alive.
Let's do what we can to keep saying the name.

Speaker 3 (16:51):
Yeah, just because it's not being reported anymore or investigated
and I don't know that, I don't know where you're headed,
that doesn't mean it just goes away. That doesn't mean
that this family just gives up. It doesn't mean that
the problems solved and you wash your hands of everything
that's happened.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
No, exactly.

Speaker 3 (17:07):
Just the only thing it does show is that there's
not enough people or there's not enough Uh. I don't
want to just say people care to continue to fight
for these cases that are hard to financiers to.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
Yeah. Hard doesn't mean give up, guys. Hard means work harder.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
So that's what we're here to do today. We're gonna
keep the work going. So her name was Heather Cameron
Haller August eighteenth, twenty twenty five. So just a few
months ago now was the thirteenth anniversary of the last
day anyone saw this mother of four who went missing
from a rural part of Redding, California.

Speaker 3 (17:53):
Yeah, mother of four, mother of four. And this isn't
something that's just broadcasts. Everyone deserves to be displayed everywhere,
you know. But I just think about children and the
need to finanswers, you know.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
Yep, you know.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
And when you hear the story, you're gonna really wonder
why the fuck there are more answers, because.

Speaker 3 (18:19):
I think there's clearly a fucking answer. Oh great, huh, Sorry, Terry.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
So.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
This was posted to the Justice for Heather Cameron Haller
facebook page this past August on the anniversary of the
day she went missing.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
Quote. We will never give up searching for Heather.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
No matter how much time has passed, her light continues
to shine and guide us. She has loved, missed, and
remembered every single day, and until she has found, we
will keep moving forward with hope and determination.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
End quote. You've got this.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
Heather was born on August eleventh, nineteen eighty four. She
was American Indian, a member of the Grand Ron tribe.
I hope I'm saying that right. The Grand Ron Reservation
is located in western Oregon, has about five thy four
hundred tribal members and actually consists of over thirty tribes

(19:24):
in bands spanning western Oregon, northern California.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
And southwest Washington.

Speaker 1 (19:31):
Heather's cousin, Shannon Hallberg, remembers that when Heather was younger,
she actually traveled back and forth between Grand Rond, which is.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
In Oregon, and Reading, California.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
Shannon also remembers that quote Heather wasn't given a very
good chance at life end quote. Heather's childhood could have
been seen as flawed due to not only the constant
change in living situation between Organ and California, but also
her parents struggles with.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
Drugs and alcohol.

Speaker 1 (20:05):
Okay, but Shannon also remembers they found time to be kids,
especially taking advantage of rural reading, summer activities fishing, boating,
dune buggies.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
The cousins enjoyed.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
Being out in nature, and Shannon remembers that their grandma
used to call them Pocahontas.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
No I was cute. Eventually how they would grow up
become a mother.

Speaker 1 (20:36):
By the time she was twenty eight, she had four
young children, three daughters and a son. She had been married,
but she and her husband were estranged. That didn't stop
her from being family oriented and from still being.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
A great mother.

Speaker 1 (20:56):
Unfortunately, though, like many in her situation, Heather wasn't able
to escape the generational cycle of substance use and addiction.
Family members recall that despite these struggles, Heather continued to
be a good mom. She regularly saw her children and

(21:17):
kept in touch with their fathers no matter what was
going on. Reports from her family also detailed a history
of domestic violence. Another of Heather's cousins, Tanya Gleeson Sheppik,
explained that Heather was.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
A victim of domestic violence.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
So as you can see, like what we talked about earlier.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
In what we'll.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
Get into, it is unfortunate, and especially when it comes
to American Indian and Alaska Natives, we don't have to
I mean, if you have read a history book, we
know that already being born into this group, the disenfranchisement

(22:10):
is there, Thanks America.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
But like now, you're also dealing with a.

Speaker 1 (22:16):
Generational cycle of substance use disorder, which unfortunately, due to
a lot of the disenfranchisement is also part of being
part of American Indian disenfranchisement and domestic violence as well.
Is we know we talked about the statistics is also

(22:38):
a large part of is very rampant.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
Yeah, it's like the odds were against her from the
get go. Yeah, which is devastating. It is.

Speaker 3 (22:51):
And despite all that, you can see that her family
said that, you know, she still did everything she could
to be family oriented, to still be there for her kids,
to maintain contact with with the father of her the
fathers of her children, so that she could stay family oriented.

(23:11):
We'll talk about it in a little bit, but she
was doing what she could to be a better person.
The last person to report actually seeing Heather was her
ex boyfriend Daniel Lesbie. According to her cousin Tanya, they
were broken up at the time, but they still ran

(23:31):
in the same circles.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
Let's talk about Daniel Lesby. I was like, do we
want to?

Speaker 1 (23:38):
Unfortunately, because he had a lengthy criminal record at the
time of her disappearance.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
Is he father to any of the children from No? Okay?
From what I could tell, he was not okay, although
his court.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
Records did show that he did go to court twice
related to custody of two of other kids.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
But the model named was a not was not Heather? Gotcha?

Speaker 1 (24:13):
So in twenty twelve, he was twenty eight years old
and he already had pretty stacked rap sheet. One article
said that he'd been charged with nine felonies in Shasta
County since April of that year and had been in
custody at the Shasta County Jail eleven times. And from

(24:34):
what I found on the Shasta Superior Court website in
the days, literal days prior to Heather going missing, there
are court documents that if I'm reading right, which if
you guys have ever looked at court documents, they're not
the easiest things to read. But if I'm reading right,

(24:55):
he basically pled out to a bunch of felony charges.
He pled on to get him only thirteen days in
jail in three years probation. And these charges were for
crimes that had actually happened in February of twenty twelve,
but the process ended up happening the days before Heather witnessing.

(25:17):
And these charges were felony assault charges assault with a
semi automatic rifle, and then they had also added on
serious assault because of prior serious violent felonies. I mean,
these were all serious felony charges and then he ended
up pleading out to them, so he pretty much got probation.

Speaker 3 (25:40):
Yeah, we should stop letting that happen. I wish there
was a way to just be like, hey, let's not
do that anymore. Just lock them up, especially because he
he clearly one of the charges was a felony and
serious assault because of a prior serious violent felony.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
So, I mean, the lead see on violent crimes, it's.

Speaker 3 (26:02):
It's ridiculous you keep going through this guy's rap sheet.

Speaker 1 (26:07):
There is also other court documents showing charges in May
of twenty twelve, possession of a deadly weapon, carrying a
concealed weapon brass knuckles, carrying a firearm in a car,
various drug charges. And then that's all prior to Heather's
disappearance in August of twenty twelve. After Heather's disappearance, so

(26:31):
in November of twenty twelve, he was arrested in a
stolen vehicle that was that had a bunch of stolen
property from various other victims.

Speaker 2 (26:38):
He had possession of other drugs.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
Eventually, Lesby would go on to make it on Ta
Shasta County's most wanted list until he was apprehended.

Speaker 2 (26:50):
That happened in January of twenty fifteen. Hmm, yeah, he's
not a good guy. He's not a good guy.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
And this is the guy who was last scene with her,
and the day that Heather went missing, she would call
nine to one one from his phone pleading for help,
saying that she had been drugged.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah, I need, I need so much of did you
say did you? Did you say on the podcast yet
that this is unsolved? I did not say it on
the podcast. Maybe I did tell you, Mary. That's why
I was like, I don't know, because I have comments,
but I'm like, I don't know, I don't remember if

(27:36):
you had said that cut this out. I don't know
if that was before we started recording or not.

Speaker 3 (27:41):
But spoiler, Yeah, so I did tell you you are
going to get infuriated.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
I'm pretty sure I said that on the podcast.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
So yeah, yeah, because I mean, you can. You can
commit crimes, you can be a shit person. She can
get drug related charges and related charges whatever. And there's
a lot of those people out there and they're not murderers.
But when you have all of those things and then

(28:12):
you tell me what you just told me about her
making a phone call, Laspian seen all of those. I
am just gonna sit here quietly and have you explained
to me what they're basing this off of, because it
better be like the most legit alibi or whatever whatever

(28:37):
it is to tell me that he's not connected. So
I'm very eager to hear what you have to say
about all of that right now.

Speaker 2 (28:43):
Immediately. You should just leave right now, because you're just
gonna get mad. I'm already mad. I stay mad, let's go.
We're all mad here, all right, what I know. Sorry,
I'm sorry for her. I'm sorry that this world does.

Speaker 3 (29:04):
So it's so you should have seen my face when
I was because okay, let me talk about it and
then I'll start yelling.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
So on August eighteenth, twenty twelve, Heather had actually just
checked out of a drug rehab program.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
She was doing what she needed to do.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
So, like I said, you know, she struggled with these things,
but it's not like she was not working.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
On it, which is great.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
But even if she wasn't working on it, even if
she was still actively you know, doing drugs, it doesn't
mean you get to get murdered. And no, exactly well,
and especially when she was literally calling for help, right, So,
she checks out of a drug rehab program, and it
was actually Lesbie who picks her up, and from what

(29:58):
I can tell, it was It's hard because there's not
a lot of actual report that I can find related
to this, but there are a lot of interviews with
like her cousins.

Speaker 1 (30:12):
So from what I can tell, it was literally like bride.
After she left and she was picked up by Lesbie.
And this is just a week after she had turned
like twenty eight. The two were headed to Keswick Dam,
which is a remote area outside of Reading, California. It's
near the Sacramento River and Shasta Dam. And so this area,

(30:36):
like I said, it's remote. It has steep hills, canyons,
and poor, poor cell phone reception. So the records show
that on that day, around two point fifty pm, Heather
called nine to one to one from around this Keswick
Dam area and she says that she's been drugged and

(30:58):
that she needs help, and it is noted that in
the background there's a male voice that could be heard.
It's also noted that at the time of the call,
Heather said that she was on foot. Now, in various
missing persons flyers and reports, they do mention a vehicle.

Speaker 2 (31:21):
Associated with the case.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
They say that it's a gray two thousand and three
Chevy four door truck with a California license plate eight
Z seven five seven four zero. Now, after some digging,
what I did find was a Facebook post that said
that this was actually.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
Daniel Lesby's vehicle.

Speaker 1 (31:48):
Okay, because of the remoteness of the area and the
poor cell phone reception, Heather would actually end up needing
to call three times because of multiple dropped calls, and
she was using Daniel Lesbie's phone to make the calls.

(32:08):
So a woman calls nine to one to one multiple
times from not her own phone, saying she was on
foot when.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
The man she was with had a car. She's saying she'd.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
Been drugged and she needed help, and there's a male
voice in the background.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
To me, yeah, I mean to you and to me,
to you and to me, this sounds like.

Speaker 3 (32:44):
She snatched a phone and she's fucking running cut and
I'm calling for help. Yeah, I'm like, I'm waiting for
you to tell me that there's like proof that you know,
she stole his phone in vehicle and that the other
guy was somewhere and they have video footage of her
with a different guy and that's the only reason that
this one specific guy is not locked up for this.

(33:07):
Your face makes me think that's not the direction that
we're heading, and I don't.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
Like that, so I'll keep going okay and not look
at you. Good choice.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
Eventually the calls do stop coming. It's unclear how quickly
this happened, but there was an initial search conducted. Because
of the remoteness of the area, they had to pull out,
you know, a lot of options. They got a California
Highway Patrol helicopter. They also had the Bureau of Land

(33:39):
Reclamation ATV come out and.

Speaker 2 (33:42):
Search the area.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
But it's a caverns and steep hills and things like that,
so they were searching all around. But unfortunately, they were
unable to find Heather and they didn't find anything suspicious.
Heather's cousin, Tanya said the only thing that they were
ever able to find was her EBT card. Authorities then

(34:08):
go to interview Lesbie as a person of interests person
of interest follow person of interest, Yeah, And when authorities
asked him what happened, why did Heather have his phone?

Speaker 2 (34:25):
Like? What the heck? All he says is that at
his point, well, they she didn't necessarily have his vehicle.

Speaker 3 (34:35):
They just said that from what I can tell is
this vehicle was quote unquote associated with the case.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
Okay, she didn't necessary. I'm not sure it means like
she had it. Okay.

Speaker 3 (34:50):
I think what it means is they know that that
vehicle was there because it's his vehicle potentially, So it's
the last vehicle she's known to have been in and
or around. So quick question, is that what they're basing
the last known sighting of them being together or they

(35:13):
were seen together.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
And then there's also this.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
I'll answer your question by saying, when they asked him,
what the heck is what is up? Yeah, he said
that they had been together, but that at some point
they separated.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
And that she had his phone. Okay, that's it. Hm,
that's all. That's not all that Okay, No, don't say
that's all about That's all he said.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
He would he would be going. He would be interviewed
three times. The last time was on April.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
Was in April of twenty fourteen, less than two years
after Heather disappeared in August of twenty twelve.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
He would never be arrested.

Speaker 3 (36:08):
And his phone would never be recovered. The phone that
Heather called from never recovered.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
Yeah, hmm, it's just too too suspicious, too concerning, to coincidental,
to ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
On September fourth, twenty twelve, about Tuish two to three
weeks later, Heather's a strange Tutmand actually would officially file
the missing persons report. Heather's cousin Shannon said that, you know,
at this point, they definitely knew they I mean, they
obviously knew something was wrong, but they knew for sure, Okay,

(36:56):
something is definite, like we need to make sure like
this is all filed correctly, because.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
They knew that Heather would never go.

Speaker 1 (37:03):
Like radio silent for that long without contacting her children
or their fathers. So after the missing person report, they
conducted more searches. They had that initial search, but then
they conducted more searches the Shasta County sheriffs and then
the family also conducted more searches, and Shannon also created

(37:27):
the Fine Heather Cameron Haller Facebook page, which of course
we will have in the show.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
Notes.

Speaker 3 (37:33):
Just last year, around the time that Heather actually would
have celebrated her birthday, a post on this Facebook page read,
Heather is a grandma. So Heather's son had had a
baby boy of his own. Yeah, a grandchild that obviously

(37:56):
Heather has.

Speaker 2 (37:59):
Yet to meet. But Rachel, that's.

Speaker 3 (38:07):
Don't but Rachel me, so, I mean, are their statements
from the family to do the has the family said
anything along the lines of like maybe maybe they think
she did take off, or maybe that post is to
try to pull on.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
Her heart strings and try to get her to come home.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
Heather's cousins, both Tanya and Shannon, they have said how
hard it's been for the family, that it's especially a
difficult struggle not knowing what happened because Heather has never
been found. And what Tanya did say was that, you
know that search for her, I actually do not know

(38:51):
if it was the initial search after those nine to
one to one calls were placed, or if it was
the subsequent searches following the missing person's.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
Report, but you know, her EBT card.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
Was eventually found, and Tanya said, quote, we feel that
area is probably where she lost her.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
Life end quote.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
So at least Tanya feels that there is a specific
person responsible for this. So I did also read something
that you know, after a certain amount of time, what
they can do is file because she's been missing for

(39:36):
so long, they can file for a death certificate so
that her children can receive certain benefits. But officially, Heather
is still considered a missing person under suspicious circumstances and
her case is technically unsolved. And as for Daniel Lesbie,

(40:02):
the Shassa County Sheriff's Office, Sergeant Brian Jackson, he said,
let me find the quote, so he said, quote, he
is still a person of interest and this case is
still open. There is still information we are trying to

(40:22):
coroborate end quote. But that was back in twenty seventeen,
and like I said, this is unfortunately one of those cases.

Speaker 3 (40:35):
That we haven't heard much from. Yeah, it's been that
like a standstill. Yeah, it's it's frustrating. But the fact
of the matter is there was We have verifiable information
that there was someone who was with her, one person
that was with her in the moments before she disappeared.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
We know she placed a call to.

Speaker 3 (40:58):
Nine one one saying that she needed help and that
she felt that she had been drugged, and we know
that she was never seen or heard from after that.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
My head's kind of like all over the place right now.

Speaker 3 (41:17):
The thing that gets me and why I got so
upset when I was looking up Daniel Lesbie's records, because look,
everyone is innocent until proven guilty under a court of law. Okay, okay,

(41:37):
But if I was reading these court records correctly, the
day before or two days before this happened, Daniel Lesbie
had pled out to several felonies. They'd made a plea
deal where he pled out one or two of these

(41:57):
felony charges and they just missed the other one so
that he could get three years probation, which he ended
up maybe three four months later, breaking probation for getting
arrested for something else. Had they not given him a
plea deal, and had he just been required to serve

(42:21):
his time, serve his time, Heather would allegedly be here still.
I mean, lord knows, there's a million other things, because
if he was out on bail, you know already, he
might not have had to serve his sentence until whatever time.
Maybe he still would have been out, like you know,
since just because they might have said, okay, report back.
You know, in two weeks you're gonna start serving your sentence,

(42:43):
whatever the case may be.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
But at the end of the day, you know, this
guy had.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
A rap sheet and you can look at his record.
It's plea deal after plea deal, after plea deal. This
guy's plaid out several freaking times. Yeah, multiple different types
of felony charges. And then someone goes missing under you know,

(43:09):
suspicious circumstances and he's the last person to be around them.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
Yeah, it's that is It's so hard because we talk
about the the position of.

Speaker 3 (43:25):
Runaways, right, So just talking about people who run away,
we talk about it often because there's too many times,
in too many cases where things are kind of like
pushed to the side a little bit possibly you know,
some cases, maybe not. But in some cases we see

(43:46):
that where it's like, oh, we're not going to investigate.
They probably just took off. They probably needed some time,
they were going through something, blah blah blah.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
And I don't.

Speaker 3 (43:58):
It's not fair to anyone involved in Heather's case whatsoever.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
And I'm not saying they were thinking this way, but
the thought in my brain is not being thought well
enough in this moment. But it's like, I struggle because
you can't be one sided or single minded when it
comes to this, right, And.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
I feel like it sucks when you see people look
that way and it's.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
A different way.

Speaker 3 (44:30):
So I don't know if they like narrowed in on
that thought, even even though he is, you know, a
person of interest at this time. So I feel like
maybe they were looking in all different directions, but how else,
Like it doesn't make sense to me if they weren't
looking that direction of like she probably just took off.
You had this, this, this, and that. Yeah, to say

(44:55):
otherwise like a whole different story. So I don't know,
It's just it blows my mind.

Speaker 2 (44:59):
I have no I diah.

Speaker 3 (45:05):
How he wasn't he was brought in for questioning. I
don't understand how there wasn't enough circumstantial evidence for at
least an arrest or at least, I mean, and I
don't know, maybe there's it's just not reported on, or

(45:28):
at least a freaking search worn of his truck.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
And maybe maybe they didn't. Maybe there is and it's
just not reported on. God I hope there was, but
it's just not reported on.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
It says that he's still a person of interest and
the case is open at least that was what was
said in twenty seventeen, and that they're still working on information.

Speaker 2 (45:48):
But that, I mean, well, what the fuck you said?
The area is super rough too, so it's like that,
that's so hard because if she was running, could some
thing else have happened? Sure?

Speaker 3 (46:01):
How would you not find the phone? How would you
not find her body? How would you not find certain
things that would be able to kind of evidence of
some kind of like if you fell or something like that.
This isn't that old either, So the phone situation is
concerning to me because there's ways to track phones that
you know, it's exactly that.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
To me is even crazier.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
Yeah, it was from twenty twelve, so we're not talking like, no.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
Like a nineteen sixties case.

Speaker 3 (46:30):
I mean, we're not even talking like two thousand and one,
where you couldn't even you know. And it's just still
upsetting because when I I can't even remember how I
came across it initially, but then I you know, of course,
then I googled her name and everything is you know,

(46:51):
the last article I think I read was in twenty seventeen,
which was it would have been five years after she
went missing, and then you know, there's nothing, And the
only thing is these.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
Facebook posts where she went missing. Was it like on
a reservation or was it on no? No? Yeah, because
then you would think, okay.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
Maybe there's some jurisdictional shit happening, which we've seen definitely
seen happen before in some of these cases. But it
is just so frustrating because there's just this, I mean,
there's cases headed to cold case territory if it's not
already there. But let's just hope that by like by
us talking about it like the Facebook. Every years, they're

(47:35):
still bringing they talk about it her birthday, you know,
the which is right around the time that she went missing.
And we're hoping that if we keep saying her name,
that we can keep it alive because for her family,
for her kids, for her grand children, now that she
has yet to me, it's still right there every day
waking up and not knowing what happened. And there's a

(47:57):
quote from her cousin Tanya, who's just a very eloquent speaker.

Speaker 2 (48:04):
I strive to be that way. I know same. It
doesn't work for me. No, And we have a.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
Podcast, so Tanya said this quote. We remember Heather every day.
We may never be able to bring her home and
lay her to ress, but we will never give up.
When I look at Heather's face, I see the faces
of all our tribal members who are enduring domestic violence, depression,

(48:31):
addiction and suicide.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
End quote.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
So just a reminder you guys, I know I said
at the top of the episode, but October is Domestic
Violence Awareness Month, and again to just provide that information
for the Domestic Violence Hotline. If you need the resources
or the help, you can call one eight hundred seven
ninety nine safe So one eight hundred seven nine nine

(48:58):
seven two three three, or you can.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
Text start to eight eight seven eight eight.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
Heather Cameron Haller was a mother of four whose last
known location was the area near Keswick Dam outside of Running, California,
on August eighteenth, twenty twelve.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
A known vehicle associated.

Speaker 1 (49:21):
Is the gray two thousand and three Chevy Silverado four
door truck with the California license plate eight Z seven
five seven four zero. Heather had brown eyes and brown hair.
She was five five to five six and weighed about
one hundred and fifteen pounds. She had a back tattoo
of a tribal flower and a tattoo on her right

(49:42):
calf of a girl and a gun with tribal flowers.
If you have any information about Heather, please contact the
Shasta County Sheriff's apartment at five three zero two four
five six zero two five. Her case number is two
Z YEARO one two two seven three four four.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
Yeah. Uh.

Speaker 3 (50:09):
There was like a moment when you were telling the
description of the car where I was like, why are
you even talking about that?

Speaker 2 (50:15):
Like we know who the car belongs to?

Speaker 3 (50:17):
You know, and it's like, oh wait, because someone could
see a vehicle and that kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
But there was I was like, we know who the
we know what belongs to him. Yeah, you guys, if
you have any information on her disappearance, on any of it,
even if you have information on this guy, even if
you've had conversations with him, because I.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
Think his story was way too there's obviously more. Please
let there be more that you know isn't being made
public or available.

Speaker 3 (50:56):
But when he says we were there, we got separated
and she had my phone?

Speaker 2 (51:01):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (51:02):
And then where did you go after? Where was the
last place you saw her? Why did she call and
say she was drugged? Was there anybody else you saw there?
Because they the the nine one one operator noted and
I assume that it was the nine to one to
one operator who noted it that there was a male
voice in the background was that you what time did

(51:25):
you see her or what time was she near you?
Because you know, he says we were there, but then
we got separated and she had my phone, but she
was on foot.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
So if she's on foot somewhere else, where are you.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
I'm crossing my fingers that there is more information, And
you know, the officer said, we're trying to corroborate some
of this stuff, but.

Speaker 2 (51:49):
I'm really wondering.

Speaker 3 (51:52):
Because there's enough to me, like you said, unless there's
some other alibi that he's that he can place him
somewhere else at two point fifty when the call was made.
How there was not enough evidence here to at least
arrest him and then.

Speaker 1 (52:10):
Go search his vehicle whatever. How is he still only
a person of interest? They should be asking those questions constantly.
And I think earlier you had said that he had
been questioned three times, Like, were all of those questionings
the exact same, Like did his story change at all?

Speaker 2 (52:29):
Yeah? Apparently not if he's still out there walking free
right now.

Speaker 3 (52:35):
Well, and that's what's crazy to me, is like we've
covered cases before where we know that a guy's story
changed between the two times he was questioned and we
know that his story changed by two different words.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
Because the coverage of that case was that fucking good. Yeah, yeah,
for sure, So why do we not have that coverage here?

Speaker 3 (53:05):
I mean, this woman literally called nine one one and
we've never seen again. Gosh, it makes me think so much,
is it, Uhsa Carmichael? Yeah, it makes me think so
much of her case, and especially with how we've still
gotten no.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
Further So I'm just so.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
Humm, yeah, but that's that's unfortunately where we stand today.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
With Heather Cameron Haller.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
I know that you know, this case at this point
is over thirteen years since Heather's been missing, and it's
obviously been a bit since there's been any that. It's
not like there's been ongoing coverage. But I'm hoping we

(54:03):
have done our part, and I know we have a
lot of listeners in California and so let's, you know,
hopefully we can continue to get the word out there.
Well grabs my attention, And it's so interesting you you
mentioned Marsa Carmichael, because that did grab my attention.

Speaker 2 (54:21):
She called nine to one to one and then missing.

Speaker 3 (54:26):
These these people are calling for help, they're calling for help,
and in this case, like, I'm not saying that they're
cleaning she ran away, but the thought of that possibility or.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
Just not doing more, yeah, blows my mind. I mean,
especially with this guy's around.

Speaker 3 (54:49):
And maybe I want to I want to hold I
want to hold on to that inkling of hope that
they are doing so much and they have just they
need the one thing and they're sitting on and they're waiting.
That doesn't make sense to me thirteen years later, I know,
like I understand like sitting on it. And when I
say it doesn't make sense to me, I'm not in

(55:09):
this field. I'm not a professional.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
I don't know. So don't be like, well, dad, what
are you even talking about.

Speaker 3 (55:16):
This is my own opinion, This is my own you
know whatever. I don't understand how you can sit on
something for thirteen years. Yeah, So to me, they don't
have anything. They have to have nothing. That's where my
head goes. You either have something for a little bit
of years or you have nothing for a whole shit
ton of years.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
I think about. My head just keeps looking at his record.
I mean it's public record.

Speaker 3 (55:46):
All I had to do was type his name into
Shasta County's Superior Court website.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
Well, and it's like, and you can't. You can't be like, oh,
he's a murderer, because I get you cannot Everyone is
innocent until proven guilty.

Speaker 3 (56:02):
But how about how about we if you, hm, okay,
if let's create a law and put it in a
nationwide that if you have say three felonies and are
on a potential suspect.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
Like you're a wool what do you a person of interest?
If you have three felonies and a person of interest,
those things go together. And now you have a phone
tap and you are monitored and you're questioned yearly. Well
I don't know fact that he had. And it's not
even like if you have a felony.

Speaker 3 (56:39):
Because if you if you steal a certain amount of
merchandise from a fucking department store, that's a felony.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
I know, right, Yeah, That's why I said three. I'm
not trying to just no, no, no, I get it, I
get it. But what I'm saying, these are violent felonies,
like these were like firearm felonies, assault felonies, these were
these were violent freaking felonies. Man, I got bad, guys.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
It was so close in time. We're talking the months
before she disappeared. Time and literally in the days before
she disappeared.

Speaker 3 (57:15):
He had planed out for probation and I and I know,
I know it is not always fair to say that
you should judge someone based.

Speaker 2 (57:30):
On their criminal past. I know this, I do.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
I have family members who I do not judge them
based on their criminal judge my family members. I know that,
But I also know like it wasn't it's not a
violent thing.

Speaker 2 (57:47):
But at the same time.

Speaker 3 (57:50):
Like you said, if I see that, hey, my guy
is a person of interest in this case, and my
guy literally just plut out on probation, Like I'm gonna
look at this, I don't know, it's just and who knows,
who knows?

Speaker 2 (58:07):
Maybe it's not him, who knows.

Speaker 3 (58:10):
That's what I'm saying, Like there has to be something
else that they're like, no, we know because he was
doing this, or I don't know, maybe they don't want
to give information. This is totally just me going as
far out there as possible. Maybe he was an informant
or maybe he was doing something else for him and
that's why they let him out in the first place.
And they know for a fact that he wasn't tied

(58:31):
into it. Because he was doing.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
Their work, you know what I mean. So therefore, I
don't know, this is crazy.

Speaker 3 (58:39):
I feel so bad for her family, her children, her grandchildren.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
This is it's so sad, and it's gone on too long.
This family deserves answers and if not answered, they deserve
their mom.

Speaker 2 (58:54):
Oh yeah, so, I mean we say it all the time.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
There's no closure with these kinds of things, but they
definitely deserve answers, right my heart, It definitely goes out
to her family, her children, her grandchildren. You can tell
she is family oriented. She's she's got these amazing cousins
who are still fighting for her all these years later.

(59:19):
Her cousin Tanya is very active, it seems, making it
known that everything that women in these communities, that the
struggle that women in these communities are facing, and she
many times, you know, importantly and very rightfully so puts

(59:42):
a name, Heather's name, her cousin's name, and lets everyone
know like this is not just a faceless, nameless epidemic,
Like this is a real thing that.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
The women that we know are dealing with.

Speaker 1 (59:58):
And it's it's our cousins, it's our sisters, it's our mothers,
it's our daughters, and we all need to be aware. Yeah, yep,
that there are some groups and like we said at
the top of the episode, you know, it happening to
anyone is.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
Not okay.

Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
But we need to be aware that there are some
groups that it's just more rampant for reasons that are
beyond their control, and they are not It is not
talked about enough. It is not given enough coverage also

(01:00:44):
for reasons beyond their control, and so we need to
make sure we're doing our parts.

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
And our podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
Is probably guilty of it, I mean, is guilty of
it that we need to do more coverage on. We
have obviously covered some black and missing or missing and
murdered black women, missing in.

Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
Lurdered black mothers.

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
We are definitely not covering as many as we could be.
We could be doing a better job at that as well.
It's something that I think just media.

Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
In general, it is. It's part of the problem. No,
it's a it is a problem.

Speaker 3 (01:01:22):
It's a bummer because I mean you can say we're
not doing that, which you're right when you if you
scroll down our feed. I mean, it's one sided, but
it also goes into the fact that we could do
better at trying to find them. But it's also the
fact that when we're researching a case and there's a
case that has thirty seven different links and articles and information,

(01:01:43):
it's a lot easier to try to bring that coverage
to you, guys, which these cases don't have that, and
so therefore it does make it a little more exactly
and so therefore.

Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
Case in terms of details, right, gan't yeah, there was nothing, yeah,
which you're right.

Speaker 3 (01:02:00):
That shouldn't dictate whether or not we cover someone. And
it's not like it's not like we've ever like looked
at something and said, no, I don't feel like covering
that person. You know, it's not that's not where our
hearts are, and it's not an attempt to turn a
blind eye or not. Do you know what we want
to do. We could do better, We could do better.

Speaker 1 (01:02:22):
Unfortunately, the statistics show too that even if we did
try proportional coverage, let's say, it would be near impossible
because the numbers are so skewed. So we just need

(01:02:43):
to keep that in mind, remember to be cognizant of that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
Absolutely well, you did a great job finding what you
could and sharing about her, and you guys go to
the show notes for more information. If you're not following
our social media, follows our social media so you can
see pictures and updates and information as well on what
we are talking about. That is that is it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:08):
We've got some spooky shit coming your guys' way pretty soon.
You know, we are officially in is October first, we
are in spooky season.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
Now. I haven't even decorated my house, so I am behind.
I am behind. I need to get on it. But yeah,
we've got we've got some important cases coming and then
we've got some more spooky stuff coming your way as well.

(01:03:37):
I'm ready for it. I like spooky season. I'm excited too.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
I think that the case I have been assigned slash
volunteered for, it's gonna be a good one.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
It's gonna be a good one for for spooky season.

Speaker 3 (01:03:52):
To me, it's like spooky season is like a precursor
into all of the free staff, you know, the holidays
that are about to be happening. It's it's always the
it's the big beginning of just chaos, some stress, but
full hearts and full stomachs and fellies because I love
eating so much, so I cannot wait for treats and

(01:04:13):
food and all the things. All right, we will talk
to you guys next week. In the meantime, just see
you next week.

Speaker 2 (01:04:23):
Best we can do. I was like, I don't even
have anything to say about him that we haven't already said,
go to the batting cages in the meantime, go to
the batting cages. All right, I'll go do that right now.
I've got forty five minutes till my daughter do it,
so no, I won't make it, but maybe as soon
as she gets home, we to head that way. All right,
talk to you guys later.

Speaker 3 (01:04:43):
You love you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
Why

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MMIW - Heather Cameron-Haller - She called 911 for help and was never seen again

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}MMIW - Heather Cameron-Haller - She called 911 for help and was never seen again