April 16, 2025 • 48 mins
This week on Limitless Leadership Lounge, we dive deep with master connector and author Devin Sizemore, whose innovative approach to relationship-building is turning traditional networking on its head.
📖 Devin unpacks The Connection Expansion, his proven system for building high-value relationships that generate opportunities... without cold calling or gimmicks.
From his “Three Connections Rule” to the power of curiosity, empathy, and strategic follow-up, Devin shows how any leader (yes, even introverts!) can build a network that actually works.
🔥 Key takeaways:
🐾 Bonus: Hear about Devin’s wildly successful experiment—the Cat Café—and the leadership lessons it taught him!
📘 Grab Devin’s book The Connection Expansion and learn more at devinsizemore.com
📖 Devin unpacks The Connection Expansion, his proven system for building high-value relationships that generate opportunities... without cold calling or gimmicks.
From his “Three Connections Rule” to the power of curiosity, empathy, and strategic follow-up, Devin shows how any leader (yes, even introverts!) can build a network that actually works.
🔥 Key takeaways:
- The art and science of creating connections with no agenda
- How to follow up in a way that builds trust, not pressure
- The four networking questions that change the game
- Why “just meet people” might be your most powerful strategy
- Real stories of business breakthroughs through connection
🐾 Bonus: Hear about Devin’s wildly successful experiment—the Cat Café—and the leadership lessons it taught him!
📘 Grab Devin’s book The Connection Expansion and learn more at devinsizemore.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This podcast is a proud member of the Teach Better
podcast network, Better Today, Better Tomorrow, and the podcast to
get you there.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
You can find out.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
More at Teechbetter dot com slash podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
It's a mindset shift that really aligns with prosperity. Right,
and so let's get into the real fun conversation because
I think we talk surface level so much. The reason
we do three connections and if you can do that
with everyone you meet is it forces you to listen,
It forces you to ask good questions, It forces you
to be able to edify the people you're meeting, and
(00:32):
it gives you permission to follow up. Right, and everything
about it has nothing to do with your product or service, right,
It has to do with you.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Do you want to be a leader in a constantly
changing world. Our emerging leaders look different, come from various
backgrounds and from all different age groups.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Leadershift is changing.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
And it's hard to keep up. But the good news
you can be a leader too. You can be an
emerging leader. Welcome to the Limitless Leadership Lounge. Try generational
conversation for emerging leaders. Come spend some time with us
to discuss leadership from three angles. The coach Jim Johnson,
the Professor, doctor Renuma Kareem, the host, John Gering a
(01:14):
monthly guest, and you get in on the conversation on
Facebook and Instagram, and be sure to follow us on
Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Speaker. So come on in and
make yourself comfortable.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
Well, we are reunited here on the Limitless Leadership Lounge.
I am John Garring, joined us always by Coach Jim
Johnson and doctor Ranuma Kareem, who's out in Bangladesh today,
joining us internationally.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
And that's what we.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Love about our show is not only are we helping
the young and emerging leaders here in the US, where
the majority of our listener base is, but all over
the world we've had an international audience, likely parton thanks
to doctor Kareem. If you've been enjoying our show, whether
it be here in America or all over the world,
please leave us a review up on your favorite podcast platform.
(02:00):
We'd love to hear your thoughts. So, Coach, we also
got introduced to this really, really cool guy who I'm
excited to dive into. We're talking about Connecting today, we're
talking about his book and so much more so, Coach,
go ahead and introduce our guest Devin.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah, I'm really excited.
Speaker 5 (02:15):
Our good friend Ben Albert introduced us to Devin and
I had a chance to chat with him and virtually
and I really impressed what he's doing. So I'm going
to share a little bit about Devon. He has spent
his career building and growing businesses that align with his values,
from launching his first marketing agency right out of college
to creating an innovative consulting practices in a cat cafe,
(02:39):
which I think I will ask a question about. Is
the author of The Connection Expansion, which I'll show in
just a moment. I read the book and it was awesome.
In addition, he has a passion for storytelling. He's conducted
expert interviews a while and enjoys learning from other people,
digging into unique stories, and sharing these stories with the world.
(02:59):
He works with a million dollar author, he loves speaking
and motivating others, and when he's not working or doing
any of what I share, you can finally likely find
him on a golf course, spending time with a family,
or travelling. So welcome to the Limitless Leadership Lounge.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
So good to be here with all of you. Thank
you for having me and yeah, just based on our
quick conversation before we record. I'm really excited to dive in.
And I know, Coach, we've had some great conversations and yeah,
it's nice to meet everybody else, and yeah, excited to
share some value with the listeners. Well, we are going
to dive in.
Speaker 5 (03:33):
We don't always do this right away, but we're going
to do it this time.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
And that is the book.
Speaker 5 (03:38):
I got an opportunity to read that book, and I
really is impressed. In fact, I've been taking some of
the ideas. But you know, obviously you know we can't
spend an hour talking about the book, but so let's synthesize.
I know it's a step process in connecting. Can you
share a little bit about what people would get from
(04:00):
reading the book the connection expansion?
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah, definitely. So I've spent the last fifteen years dialing
in a system that makes you the authority in rooms
where you don't have competition, and there is an art,
a science, and a system to make that a reality.
And this book is my very transparent way of teaching
that to the world. And so this is not a
(04:23):
hype book where I'm going to tease you and then
lead you to something later. This is a book that
literally walks you through the theory, the principles, the steps,
the templates, the language, everything you need to be able
to implement a system where you can stop cold calling,
you can build your network strategically, and you can generate
way more results than the cold calling, marketing and other
(04:45):
things you're doing right now to build your business. So
that's what's in the book. Like I said, it's the
whole system, from the questions for networking, how to follow up,
when to follow up, the scripts to use, what a
connection meeting is, how to add value to your network,
how to nurture long term it's all of it very good.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
And so we also heard you on a real business
connections show with Ben Albert, and I know you have
a good relationship with him too, and you talked a
lot about your formula for connecting and particularly the three
connection whole formula. Could you tell us a little bit
about that and why that's so effective, especially for young
leaders just growing their careers.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Yeah, it's a mindset shift that really aligns with prosperity, right,
and so let's get into the real fun conversation, because
I think we talk surface level so much. The reason
we do three connections and if you can do that
with everyone you meet is it forces you to listen,
It forces you to ask good questions, It forces you
to be able to edify the people you're meeting, and
(05:43):
it gives you permission to follow up, right, And everything
about it has nothing to do with your product or service, right,
It has to do with you truly showing up for people,
being innately curious and adding value as quick, fast and
often as you can. And adding value in a relationship
is how we deepen relationships quickly, especially in a virtual world,
(06:06):
like if you're doing stuff out of market, you're not
face to face, belly to belly sitting in a coffee shop.
You have to find other ways to add value quickly
so you can deepen the relationships fast. Right, Having a
book helps, but really adding the connections and making those
that's the best. And then the best part about it
is you're adding value to both parties, right, because you're
connecting people who can strategically align or do jves or
(06:27):
integrated offers. And then again you have permission to follow up,
So three weeks later you get permission to check in
with both parties and say, hey, how are those introductions,
and so now instead of having this network where you
have a meeting, you don't follow up, they don't follow up,
they become a contact in your database that you never
talked to. Now you have a system where you meet
someone twenty four hours later you're adding value. Three weeks
(06:48):
later you have permission to check in, and then you
move them into a six week nurture cycle. No one
in your network goes cold, and that lays the foundation
for long term success out to you, people connecting you,
people advocating on your beat, people inviting you to stuff
that you can't get invited to. And for the young
listeners who might just be starting their journey getting the
(07:09):
internships you want, finding the job with no competition. We're
talking six figure job offers with no competition. It's just
you because you have found yourself as the authority in
a room where no one else is playing. That might
mean a business situation, it might mean an internship job opportunity,
it might mean a nonprofit getting a six to seventy
eight nine figure check that they didn't know existed. So
(07:31):
that's really what we're trying to chase, and that's why
connections are the foundation of the system.
Speaker 6 (07:37):
So wonderful that you are talking about connection in this
era where we are connected with everybody through Facebook and
other social media. But still I find many of the
gen zs are not being able to form that strong
bond or relationship with each other, still there in their
(07:59):
own silos. So for those gen zs, how can we
convince them and make them understand how the power of
connections is so important for success in your life in
our lives? So can you give some some tidbits to
(08:19):
the gen zs who are listening to us, like why
connection is important for success?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Yeah, so let's just use There's two ways I'll answer this.
One will be statistically and then one I can read
a list. Both are fascinating. So let's just start with
statistics because I like stats. So let's talk about January
just for myself. So this has nothing to do with
anyone I coach, mentor none of the people that I'm
working with. This is just my metrics. I had fifty
(08:44):
two meetings in January, so that's fifty two meetings with
people I didn't know. I made ninety eight connections following
those meetings. I received twenty seven connections in January again,
twenty seven new people I get to meet and connect with.
Seven of those connections were direct leads for my core
product and service that I was offering. Three of those
ended up closing. In the month of January, two webinars, recorded,
(09:06):
nine podcasts recorded, one event attended that I was invited
to that was sold out, and we booked eleven upcoming events,
three of which were sponsors and events that don't have sponsors.
One hundred percent of that is built on the system.
Zero percent of that is cold calling, cold outreach, marketing funnels,
(09:27):
brand awareness, it's none of that. Do I do all
that stuff, yes, But all the stats I just listed,
that's just a result of the system built on the
back of connections. And so if you were out there
looking to hypergrow business, this will build the foundation, right,
This will give you the same success you're trying to
achieve elsewhere. And then has promised I want to read
(09:47):
this because I think this is fascinating. So these are
real things that have happened with people in my network.
So I did a what if statement section in the books.
I'm just going to share it. So, whether you're a
business owner, a young entrepreneur, a spouse of someone and
all these things are real outcomes from using the system.
So what if you never had to market for an
open position at your company because your network filled that
position for you. What if you could launch a business
(10:09):
for fifty percent of what it should cost because of
the untapped value in your network. That goes back to
our cat cafe, which we could talk about. What if
you could save money and have a better experience? Will
traveling right, free hotels, free rooms, airbnbs, invites to exclusive
events all that happens. What if you were invited to
exclusive invite only opportunities where there's no other way into
(10:30):
the room. You can't buy a ticket right, you can't
go online and get it, but you somehow end up
in that opportunity or that room. What if you can
get one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars a year
job offer not have to compete for it. What if
you can secure an ideal internship without having to apply?
You get invited, you get asked to join. What if
you could find an attorney right who typically is booked out.
(10:50):
They'll take a call in twenty four minutes, work on
your case in seventy two hours, and solve the problem
for you. Attorneys don't do that. You know why they
do that because you were referred in and you have
a great network. What if you could search for service
providers just in your database and instantly they take your call.
You get better pricing and better service. All of these
are a sample of the outcomes of just having good connections.
Speaker 6 (11:12):
Really, sorry, I just remember, Devin, how did you become
such a great connector? I have to ask this question, sorry,
coach the skills? Yeah, what are the skills? How did
you develop the skills, like consciously or subconsciously becoming such
a great connector?
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Yeah. So first I want to let everyone know that's listening.
If you're an introvert or extrovert, the system works. So
if you're scared of going to networking events and scared
of rooms, great, you'll probably actually do better than an
extrovert because you'll listen more and ask good questions. Extroverts
tend to talk too much and overcrowd the conversation. So
I was lucky, right that I have a journalism degree
(11:54):
and I learned how to ask really good questions and
I love storytelling. What I found network, right is none
of us enjoy the experience. Really because there's so many
used car salesmen and networking events. Right you go in
and there's shoving business cards at you, and everyone's trying
to sell something. And so I said, you know what,
I don't want to do that, And so I went
on this mission to one control what I can control.
(12:17):
So everything in the system and everything I do has
to be inside of my control. I will never benchmark
myself or my success with things I can't control. So
that's key to it. The other thing is just truly
focusing on my core value, which is helping others and
knowing that the law of getting things back right has
(12:38):
to you got to put it out. And so so
many people are focusing on the getting things back part
without the giving part. And so I think if you
combine this innate curiosity, the journalism questions, the passion for
helping people, and this focus on systems and controlling what
you can control, that lays the foundation which I've perfected
and then continue to perfect. We're still changing language to optimize,
(12:59):
We're we're still changing how frequently we follow up and
what the subject looks like. We're still adding in scripts
for what happens if you forgot to follow up with
someone on how do you re engage in have a
real conversation? Like, all these things are still getting dialed
in because it's an organic system that has to adapt
to current technology, current focus, trends, things like that. But
(13:20):
the good news is everyone can do it. Whether you're confident,
not confident, introvert, extrovert, it doesn't matter. It's a system.
Speaker 5 (13:27):
You know. As well said and something you said. And
I kid people because I do a lot of leadership
presentations that I think effective leaders are the c qas
the chief question askers. And with that in mind, can
you give us a couple I want to jump into
the cafe, but I got to ask this question first,
is that can you give us a couple of sample questions?
(13:48):
You know that we can delve to help people with
their networking and connecting, you know, beyond the famous how
are you doing? You know, and those types of things.
Can you give us a few examples that would be
the audience?
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yeah, most definitely. So there's two series of moments where
questions are really important. The first is when you're at
a networking event or a first meeting opportunity. Right in
the book, I even tell a story about doing this
at a birthday party. So the questions I'm going to
share work whether you're at a coffee shop, a structured
networking event, a virtual summit, or a birthday party. The
second set of questions is when you get into what
(14:22):
I call a connection meeting. Again, this is not a
sales meeting. This is a get to know you meeting.
There is a formula for success there. That's another set
of questions. So we'll start with the networking side, because
that's a side where I think a lot of people
really struggle when networking. I used the same four questions.
I've used the same four questions forever. I teach the
four questions, and if you ever get asked the four questions,
it's because it's someone I worked with. And in the
(14:44):
Reno market, it became really funny because we would go
to networking events and I've trained so many people in
this market that you would have people look across the
room and be like, Yeah, you worked with Devin, didn't you, right,
because they would start to hear the flow. And so
in networking couple things for success. You want to control
the conversation and ask the questions first, right, because that's
(15:05):
going to get you in and out of the conversation. Second,
you need to get out of the conversation. So if
you can stick to a four question script, the person
you're talking to will probably ask you the same four questions.
So now you only need to know how to answer
four questions, and there's a natural close to the conversation.
So it gives you kind of this nice, wrapped up
moment where you can move on to the next conversation
instead of getting stuck at an hour networking event in
(15:26):
a thirty minute conversation. So four questions here. They are,
firstus what do you do? That's the obvious one, right,
we have to understand what the person we're talking to does,
because that's going to give us the premise for are
they an owner? Are they a professional? Or they a
salesperson or they a service provider wood industry. So much
gets answered in that one question. Next, we ask how
long have you been doing that? This is a really
(15:48):
critical question that gets missed so often, but it's such
a good qualifier because it tells us how experienced they
are if they're transitioning, and so based on their answer,
if they've been doing something for under a year, we
ask about the past, Hey, that's awesome. What'd you do before?
How'd you end up here? Because now we're mining for
additional data in their previous life, right, their previous network,
(16:09):
previous experience. Where's their real expertise at Because the new
thing they're doing is a new expertise, right, their network's
probably not very mature there, they're still learning if they've
been doing it over a year. I'll say a statement like, man, coach,
you must love what you do, and then they're gonna
answer one of two ways. They're gonna say yes, and
they're gonna passionately talk about what they do. So now
three questions in you have the person passionately talking about
(16:32):
themselves and what they do. That's a memory hook and
it makes you stand out. Or they're gonna admit that
they're stuck, which is the other side. They're gonna be
like you know what, No, like, I'm just stuck in this.
Actually I don't enjoy it. I'm here, and they'll start complaining,
which is great because somehow you just became a friend
in three questions, right, because that's what friends do. And
(16:53):
then the fourth question you always want to ask about
how you can help the other person that question has
different flavors based on your personality. But if you're at
a business event, it's typically hey, what's a great connection
or great referral for you? If you're at a birthday party,
might be like, Hey, what are you looking for that
I could help solve? Like what do you need? Do
you need a cat sitter or a babysitter? At what?
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Like?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Your car got totaled? Do you need a body shop?
What do you need? And how can I help? Has
to be your last question. When you ask that question,
make sure you get their contact information so that you
can follow up, because that's the part where you control
the system. So there's your four questions. There's a whole
bunch of psychology behind why we ask them, But if
you ask the four, you'll know enough to know how
(17:33):
to follow up and get people into a connection meeting.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
That Let's dive into that fourth question too, because I
think that's where a lot of people go wrong in connecting. Obviously,
you would think that you want introductions to your ideal client,
right or is there sometimes a better introduction for you
to make or for you to receive in a connection?
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Such a good question, So yes, in a general networking
event where we're just meeting people for the first time.
Their answer will be something client specific, which is fine
because that's what the world has told us to ask for.
Is we want to ask for clients. A matter of fact,
I was scrolling through social this morning and like all
the coaching on sales for referrals is about asking clients
(18:21):
for clients. Right, So that's fine, that's what you will
get at a networking event now for you, once you're
equipped with the system and you understand why we don't
answer with that. And here's the problem. So the quote
I tell everyone to put down and we talked about
this on Ben's show as well, right, and I talk
about every time is everybody wants to buy, nobody wants
(18:42):
to be sold. We are a consumer society, and so
stop trying to hard sell everybody. Everybody is positioned to buy.
You need to make it easy to buy, and yes,
there are skills and techniques that make it easier, but
you don't need to force people to buy. The other side, too,
is if John, if you say, hey, this is my
ideal person and it's a client type and I go, okay, great,
(19:02):
I'm now profiling my database. Going who do I know
that could buy your product or service. The timing's right,
I think they have the money, and I'm okay positioning
them to you for you to sell to them. That's
a lot of barriers for a connection. Not to mention
we're positioning people to be sold. It goes back to
the quote if instead, and we'll use real estate as
an example, If I ask a realtor, who do you
(19:23):
want to connect with? They either are going to answer
with their ideal client type. If they're savvy, they're going
to then go up a level and they're gonna say
I want to meet mortgage lenders or insurance agents. It's
always the same two buckets. Great. Guess what, every other
realtor wants to meet the same things, right, So now
we're even though you went up and you feel savvy, right,
and it's easier for me to connect you to those people,
we're just competing with the same things. Instead, a realtor
(19:45):
could say, you know, I'm looking for in home sales providers,
people who door knock and end up in people's homes
selling them something, doors, windows, appliances. It doesn't matter they're
in people's homes selling I want to meet those people
because we can have collaborative conversations. Plus, I need those
people for my client. Now I can go through my
list and be like, yeah, I know like fourteen of
those people, and now it's easy for me to make
(20:06):
an introduction because there's no friction. Right, there's no art
of sale, there's no positioning needed. No, it's like, Hey, John,
I want to introduce you to coach. Here's why I
think you guys are probably selling to the same people.
You should probably talk and now you can have a
strategic conversation. It makes it easier for me to add
value and make the connection. So as we get deeper
(20:26):
into this process and we really work on language that
unlocks a whole another level to the system and allows
you to make these connections with no friction.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
That's the key. Yeah, No, that's a really good, good point. Renew,
I know you have a question.
Speaker 6 (20:41):
Yeah, yeah. I loved when I was going through your
LinkedIn profile that you were mentioning curiosity and also you
want to learn about people, and that is a problem
that I have as well. My family always complained that
I'm always talking to strangers everywhere, the plane, in the car, everywhere,
(21:02):
and then I end up being friends and interestingly, there
was one person whom I became, who I befriended in
the plane in the long twenty hours trip, and through
him I found one of my asset, one of the
main strongest core executive member of my nonprofit. You never know,
(21:22):
sometimes surprises without any intention, when you are open to
meet people without any agenda, you can be surprised. So
my question to you is, what are these elements when
you are going to this network sessions and things like that.
Do you always have an agenda in your mind? But
(21:43):
what is your technique? How do you really connect? How
important is empathy or genuineness and all those emotions to
connect and build those relationships?
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yeah, this is fun. Yeah, this conversation is already so good.
So first let me talk about that experience you had
on the plane. Right. So, when I was writing the book,
I had a different subtitle and it was something like
a Duplicatable Systematic Approach to Grow your Referral Network or
something really technical. That was amazing because it's what it does.
And then I got feedback that said, like, yeah, that's sure,
(22:16):
that's what it does, but that's not what it does
because what the system actually does and the reason why
the subtitle changed is you are one connection away from
massive success in your life and business. I want to
plant that seed that you don't know. You have no
clue what that one connection is. You have no clue
where you're going to find it. You cannot gamify that
and have a guarantee. Again, you can't control that. What
(22:38):
you can control is not shooting yourself on the foot
before you start. And so when we talk about going
to an event, the first thing I tell people, and
I do this in rooms all the time, and I'll
ask through when you go to a networking event, what's
your goal? And usually a part of the room's going
to answer with to meet prospective clients, or to find opportunities,
or to fill my pipeline. And then one smart person
(23:01):
in the room is going to be like to meet people. Great,
that's it. What I first need you to do is
just commit next to you to get out of the
car and open the door and patch yourself on the
back that you actually went into the event. And then
that's it. All you need to do the rest of
the time is just have good conversations, ask the four questions,
gather people's contact information. That's what you can control actively. Listen,
(23:24):
don't be distracted, don't be looking around the room. Ask
the four questions, Answer the four questions they're going to
ask you, move out of the conversation, move to the
next one. At a networking man, That's all we're trying
to capture now when we get fast forward to a
connection meeting, where we're really digging deeper into the relationship.
If we're in a thirty minute meeting, twenty five minutes
of the meeting, is you asking questions the other person answering.
(23:45):
If you're in an hour meeting, it's about forty five
to fifty minutes, is you asking questions the other person answering?
You should only be talking about yourself in the last
five to ten minutes at most. And what's crazy is
you will close more deals in that last five ten minutes.
Then you can fathom if you do the first part correct.
And so when we go in there, there's a formula
(24:07):
for that, and we tease it earlier, but this will
really go to your question because this is where we
start to show we're curious and we're empathetic. First, I
want to know everything about today. What are you doing?
Why are you doing it? Who are you selling to?
What's your goals? Because that really helps me understand you today.
I always then go to the past, tell me your story. Now,
(24:27):
that question alone, subconsciously is telling the person you're talking
to that you are way more curious and different than
everyone else they talk to. Because I actually want to
know how'd you get here? Like why the heck are
the two of us sitting here? And you're a pest
control business owner? Like how did that happen? Because I
know as a little kid, you didn't go I want
to kill pests for a living, right, So tell me
(24:48):
the story and then shut up and listen, right, Like,
let's actually listen to the answer and take notes. If
you don't have a notepad in front of you and
you're not taking notes, or you're not typing on your keyboard,
you're not listening. So take notes. When we talk about
the future, I always go from there to where are
you going? Paint the biggest dream? And then while they're
doing that, you have to agree. You have to respond
(25:11):
with excitement, like, John, I love that that's what you're doing. Man,
I'm so fired up for you. That's amazing because I
believe that, Like I'm so excited for what everyone is
doing every day in their life, and I want you
to achieve that because I know if you achieve your goal,
you're going to impact the community, your family, and all
of your employees if you're a business owner. And then
the last thing we always do is we ask what's
(25:32):
in the way, because that's where we start to really
decide have we earned enough trust in the last twenty
minutes or forty minutes for you to be open and honest.
And that's the gauge of if I've done a good meeting,
because at that point, if you open up and say,
you know what, you know, what's in my way? This, this,
and this. If they open up and they're that transparent
(25:52):
in the very first meeting you're having with them, you
already have a relationship and now we just need to
add value in toto we can do and so again
there's a formula for that. But the formula is all
about the other person. It's all about asking about today,
asking about the past, asking about the future, supporting their future,
and then solving problems with the challenges that they share. Again,
(26:14):
if they don't share challenges, you probably haven't asked or
gone deep enough in the conversation yet.
Speaker 6 (26:20):
Right, And I think that's why may Angelo said that
people will not remember what you said, but they will
remember how you made them feel. So through that communication
and asking questions that feeling the emotion, I think those
really matter when you're building those connections and relationships.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Yeah, I want to be your biggest advocate today period.
I want your meeting with me. I want you to
leave and be like, damn, that guy believed in me. Yes,
I did, and I do, and I believe in you
so much. I'm gonna make connections to help you. I'm
going to give you tools to support you. And yes,
if my product your service aligns, yes i'm gonna help
you and I'll sell that to you. But I just
(27:01):
want to advocate for you.
Speaker 5 (27:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
The young lady I met with yesterday, she sent me
an email before I got home, like this was an
in person meeting. Before I got home, she emailed me,
thanking me for the meeting and thanking me for empowering her,
and thanking me for not selling to her, and thanking
me for not trying to recruit her, and thanking me
for giving her real tools and resources. That's what I want,
(27:26):
That's where I know I'm succeeding. Did she buy anything yet?
Speaker 5 (27:29):
No?
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Well she I don't know. I don't care because I
controlled that I can control, and I had a positive
impact on that person. And I know that I can
go to sleep tonight and every night knowing that the six, seven,
eight people I met are going to feel positive and
they're going to feel inspired and impacted by every conversation
I'm having. That again, I can control.
Speaker 5 (27:51):
It's a great point, Devin, really pressed with so much
content you've given us, but I know our listeners are
on their I just seek to talk about the cat cafe.
So can you tell us the story of the cat Cafe?
And then I'll share one or two leadership lessons you
learn from the cat cafe.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Yeah, so the cat cat Cafe is such a fun story.
So in my friend group or my inside circle, we
have a joke of a what email address are you
using today? Because I went through a series of a
decade where yes, I've always done consulting, but I've owned
a lot of random companies and businesses, and I just
love business. But I remember going to my friends saying
I'm gonna watch a cat cafe. One hundred percent of
my friends being like, you're crazy, what the heck are
(28:33):
you doing, and me going, well, I'm gonna do this,
so it'll be great. And what we're gonna do is
we're gonn launch it, we're gonna scale it, we're gonna
systematize it, we're gonna sell it, and we're gonna do
it in a way no one's ever done. And so
the Cat Cafe, for those of you who don't know,
the front of the business is a coffee shop. You
can get treats and coffee. The back of the business
is called the cat lounge, and so you can pay
by hour to hang out with the cats. It's great
(28:53):
for senior citizens who can have cats, college students who
can't have animals on campus, people whose spouse is allergic,
but they still want the interaction with cats. There's a
lot of mental benefits and a lot of other reasons
to spend time with animals. And part of the cats
that are in there are adoptable, so there is an
adoption nonprofit rescue partnership in there as well. And then
we had an event space, and so my wife and
(29:14):
I every time we travel we visit cat cafes, and
we went to one in Hollywood, and we went, man,
this is really crazy. I looked at it from a
business standpoint and went, there's thirty five people in here
paying twenty dollars to be here. They just told me
they sail out four sessions a day. I'm doing the
math going for a coffee shop. This is actually like
pretty sustainable and significant revenue, Like that's actually like a
(29:36):
lot on a per day coffee shop. Turn and then
my wife, who's amural artist, is looking around, going, man,
I could design this way better. And there's was nice,
like it was very clean aesthetically, but she was like, man,
we could do something really cool. Make this like immersive experience.
If you've ever been to Vegas in the area fifty
whatever it's called, where it's like the immersive kitchen art experience,
it's that concept. So we went on that and we went, hey, hey,
(30:00):
we want to invest, and I like business, and so
we came back and chased down a commercial property. Forty
five days after that we opened the doors. So for
those of you, let's reemphasize that in forty five days,
we opened a full fledged retail business with all of
our certificates and approvals with the Health Department, everyone, which,
trust me, there's some fun conversations there. And we sold
(30:23):
the business after six months of being opened to an
employee and they're still in business today. They've rebranded and
launched a nonprofit to support the business. So I'm not
sure how many of those things break traditional business logic,
but it's all of them. Because the fact that we
opened a retail business in forty five days for under
sixty grand and then sold the business in six months
to an employee who paid us off early and is
(30:45):
still in business, that there's so much there that had
to be done right. And that's what we were trying
to prove. We were trying to prove that we could
go into an industry that we've never owned ourselves. I've
done a lot of consulting in that space. We could
do it in a timeframe and a budget, it didn't
really make sense. We could do huge launch and then
we could sell it and empower that employee to succeed
(31:06):
into the future. That's amazing. And so going to your
leadership question, it's interesting because I have been in corporate
and I've had six figure teams that everyone on my
team makes six figure and is the best at what
they do. And then in the coffee shop world, we're
talking about general retail, right, we're talking about first job,
second jobs, you know, unless you're getting to the management level.
(31:28):
We did pay really well. We gave our team a
lot of other benefits and relationship things. But at the
end of the day, your team will succeed depending on
how empathetic you are and how well your processes are designed.
And so for us, we built a machine right. There
were no questions. Everything was documented, the opening checklist, the
closing checklist, how you greet people, the scripts you use,
(31:51):
what you wear, it's all done. And then we love
on our employees, right, So we give them a budget
to buy shirts that they're happy to wear that are
cat themed, and we buy meals for the team week
and we do some of those things, and we have
daily stands up so there's constant communication. We do weekly
team meetings where the whole team comes in and we
feed them and have great conversation. We do enhancement and
(32:11):
training for the team. Like we love on the team,
and that's always been my approach, and it's just exactly
how I build networks, right, and we get to know
our team members and so yeah, fascinating business. So many
cool things came out of it, so many amazing challenges
too that we didn't foresee but we overcame and just
a cool business project and it's an amazing business and
(32:33):
it does a lot of good in the community as well.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
In all your time in business, Devin, and also connecting
in general, I can imagine there's been a lot of
frustrations and a lot of connections that, Oh, you make
it sound so easy, right.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Thirty minute call.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
You ask people a lot of questions and.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Then you know, like boom, there you go.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
Right, But I'm sure there are some frustrating times too,
where there are times where you felt like you've wasted
your time on this particular connection or maybe this particulular
business idea. What do you do in those moments or
do you ever consider anything, any connection, any idea, a
waste of time.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Yeah, so let's answer. Let me answer two parts of
that question separately. So there's value in every connection. It's
one of my core principles that I will stand on
that that does not mean that every person I meet
with will be someone long term where there's value, because
if they're a taker, so meaning that they won't make
connections or not trying to do anything other than sell.
They don't they won't value the connections I send to them, Like, Eh,
(33:33):
but they're going to get the same experience as everybody else, right,
Like I'm still going to ask the questions, I'm still
gonna make the connections. I'm still going to nurture them.
I just may not want to pull them into my
world more than that, because the takers can be toxic
to the network, right, because they're not going to go
out there and advocate and add value, which is such
a core mission to what I'm trying to do. So
(33:54):
I do stand on the belief that there's value in everything.
Since I've done presentations fifteen years ago in front of rooms,
my life slide was always a cup of coffee, and
my invite was I'll meet with anyone to talk about anything.
And it's still a true statement and I will still
do it today. I will still meet with the college
kid who just wants to pick my brain. I don't care.
I will meet with you and talk to you and
we will have a great conversation. Now looping to the
(34:14):
other side, Yes, I have made millions and I've lost millions.
Actually in the span of ninety day period. Both of
those were true statements. I have destroyed relationships in business.
I have made amazing relationships in business. I have been sued.
I have had this sue. So yes, I can give
(34:34):
you all of the stories from what it's like to
be extremely successful and have everything you want to making
a ton of bad decisions and bad hires and losing
it all to a business partner that extorted the whole
business and you know, drug the investors into the ditch.
And the one business partner got cancer, he died. The
other business partner married his wife. I can give you
(34:56):
stories that will blow your mind when it comes to
busin business. But I'm still here. And so what my
message to people listening is, there is nothing that's only
going to be positive. There's no business. I've never met
an entrepreneur. I've never met anyone in the business world
who hasn't been hit by a bus. And at some
(35:19):
point the bus will hit you. And so if it
hasn't prepared for it, And the way do you prepare
for it is you have a very clear future vision
because you need something to anchor on in the future,
and you need a support system. So your spouse is
your first line of defense. An amazing spouse will get
you very far. And your inner circle is critical. You
need mentors, coaches, masterminds in an inner circle that when
(35:41):
you are at your worst and you want to quit,
and quitting could be very dark. This could be a
very dark quitting conversation. You need to be able to
call someone who can speak life back into you, and
you need to be that for other people too. But
I have made those calls. I have sat there in
the car and had to call someone and just weeped
and said, I'm done. I quit, I quit, I quit
(36:03):
it all, I quit all of it. This is not
just a I quit my business conversation. This is like
I quit life conversation. And I've let my mentors go, no, Devin,
you're doing it. You're okay, right, we're here, And I
don't even get emotional talking about it, because those are
the dark moments. I don't think we talk about enough
in business. But every entrepreneur, in every business owner has
(36:23):
those moments where they just want to give up. And
if you're listening to this right now and that's a
mode you think you're in, look, let me be the
person I believe in you. Your friends may not, your
family may not shit, your spouse might think you're crazy. Today,
I believe in you. I believe in what you're chasing.
And as long as you're being authentic and you're actually
trying to help people, then go chase it. And yes,
(36:46):
the world will run you over with the bus, but
you're going to get back up and guess what You'll
be okay, right?
Speaker 6 (36:53):
And this is such a powerful uh statement. And I
believe all those challenges made you more stronger and resilient.
You also learned about things that you should do and
you should avoid. So from my life experience, when each
challenges come like oh so this is where I went
(37:13):
wrong and I need to modify and change things. So
I think those are the blessed time where we become
stronger to deal with our life and come and be resilient.
The last question to you referrals. I have seen the
many people asking me for referrals in the Lincoln whom
(37:37):
I never even knew, So I'm not interested in giving
referrals to those individuals. But there are some people who
come out I probably am at once, but something stuck
their conversation the way they approached even the way they
ask for referral, and that convinces me like, this person
(37:59):
is worth my referrals. So some tips to all those
who are seeking referrals. What should they do and what
should they avoid? Then they want somebody to give them
good reference.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Yeah, So first, one of the core principles is trained
by doing, and so so many people ask before they've given.
That's not a formula for success. And so if you
want connections and referrals, if you want that to be
your reality, then you need to generate that. Right. I
find it's a three to one ratio, So three that
I give one that I get back. That's a perfect
(38:36):
ratio for me because I know the game, right, I
know that if I do one hundred, I get thirty.
That's very predictable. That's exciting to me. That's first. Second,
the ask is always wrong, and we talked about that earlier,
John with your question. Right, they're asking for like this
direct sale. However, if they were to reach out and
say like Devin, look, I know you're networking and I
saw you were on XYZ podcasts and I really appreciate
(38:59):
what they did, Like could you introduce me to that person?
Because I'd love to have a strategic conversation. The answer
is yes, right, because you're not asking me to position
you to sell to someone, especially if I don't know you.
But if you reach out and say, like, hey, Devin,
I saw you were at that women's event the other day,
I would love to engage with that. I do a
lot of work with nonprofits. Could you connect me with
(39:19):
the person who hosts that? Yes, yes I could, right?
Or Devin, I know you go to a ton of
events and you're on a ton of stages. I'm trying
to be on stages too, Like, could you just like
share a couple events, or maybe you have a couple
of event hosts that maybe I could just connect with
because I just love to be on more stages. Sure. Right, Again,
all those asks are educated asks, specific asks, and they're
(39:41):
not to be sold. They're not positioning you to be sold.
And then the other part of this is why the
heck are you doing that on a first meeting anyways
or a first touch? I LinkedIn, I did book one.
It's like one a month. Maybe I'll actually book messages
and I probably get three to five hundred messages a month,
But all the messages start good. And this is where
(40:02):
they do great, right, Like the first touch is always like, oh,
I see we're connected with a lot of few people.
Let's connect. Yeah, I'll connect to everyone. That's fine. And
then the next message is always hey, this is what
I do. Is that something you like to talk about? Like,
oh my god, like just stop. Instead, the next message
should be an educated thing, saying like hey, I saw
you do this, or I see this on your website,
(40:23):
or see you wrote this book. I'm innately curious about that,
like could we connect and just chat? Sure? Are they
gonna sell to me on the call? Yes, but at
least they'll book a call, and I will reward them
with a meeting because at least they were sort of
genuine in their outreach, right. And then on the meeting,
I'll let them sell to me, and then I'll just
push them back into my four questions. I'll control the
(40:44):
meeting and we'll add value. Right. But there's some tips
around that for asking for referrals. I think you can
get so much further if you stop just chasing the
client today and the short sighted money, and you're looking
for bigger strategic asks. Your network can produce that way
easier for you and then just do research like educated
asks will generate way more results than uneducated general asks.
Speaker 5 (41:07):
That's great, well, Devin. My final question I had a
bunch of questions, but unfortunately right out of time, but
we appreciate your great insights today is that I saw
that you have done some work with college students and
social media marketing, and social media is so big, and
(41:27):
I'm curious, can you give us a couple tips on
what you taught students to help them be more effective
in the social media?
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Yeah? So super fun. Yes, I was an adjunct professor
and I taught social media marketing at Sierra Nevada University,
which is now rebrand to do another university name having
a marketing agency. I get asked marketing questions a lot.
I love playing in the social media field and it
was fun. It was fun to design a course. So
I fully designed the course and what we covered, and
(41:56):
what I would tell you is you cannot be an
expert on a platform you're not on, and so that's
the first thing. And I always use Facebook or metas
as the core metric. Right, they still have the biggest
user by like a huge number, yet most the younger
generation doesn't play there anymore, yet they want to leverage
social media for success. Well, why would you not be
(42:18):
on the nine bazillion pound gorilla where everybody else is playing, right,
So the first message is like, you've got to be
on the platforms that you're trying to either use or understand.
So do I have a TikTok account? Yes? Am I
on it all the time? Yes? Why? Because I'm looking
for what are the trends, what's working? What videos are
getting engagement? What are they asking? Is it the game videos?
(42:41):
Is the top ten list videos? Is it reshares? Is
it like? What are the things? And then actually pay attention? Right.
The other advice I get people is steal it. We
were in my connection group last week and it's funny.
I said this, and what are my buddies in there?
And he's like, no, no, no, it's best practices, right, looking
for best practices. I'm like yeah, and then steal it.
(43:02):
So every time I'm in front of a college class,
I call it plagiarism.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
Right.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
You go to college and it's like, don't plage your eyes,
it's so bad, it's whatever. Then you get in the
business world and it's like that's all you should be doing, right,
look for people who are doing amazing stuff, borrow that idea,
repurpose it into your world, and use it. So social
media that's the best. And so what I did every
week is I would have the students go on to
two different platforms and share a post that worked and
(43:26):
a post that didn't work, and why, like, visually this
post didn't work and had no engagement even from big brands,
or this post is really interesting got a ton of engagement,
And then why they believe that? Because that's what we're
looking for, right. We have to become an art of
the game that we're trying to play or a student
of the game that we're trying to play. And so
you've got to engage with it, learn from it, and
(43:47):
then you can teach it, work with it, or integrate
it into your own marketing.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (43:52):
So I know, Devin that you're doing a lot to
kind of redefine connecting, redefine what it is for you know,
people to go to networking events and stuff like that.
So can we just as we wrap up here, and
then certainly I want to ask you a couple more things,
first about your book and then about your connection group.
But what would you if you were to give a
(44:14):
concise definition of how you see connecting and networking, what
would it be.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Yeah, connecting is simply meeting people. That's it. It's just
the art of going out there and meeting people. And
that's where it stops. It always tries to become more
and that's where it usually starts to go wrong when
we're trying to sell or force it. In the book,
we talked about the definition between referral and connection, and
(44:42):
I think it's an important distinction. Right. A referral typically
is someone that's a prospective client that's teed up to
you with the assumption that they're going to buy because
of expressed interest. Right, So there's a lot of qualifiers.
A connection is simply one person connecting with another with
no assumptions and no intent. Now, the better you can
edify someone in, the more aligned you can see up
the connection to have a common conversation and have some intent, great,
(45:05):
But the intent's not to sell. And so I think
when it comes to networking and building relationships, just meet people.
Just meet people. Now, if you are meeting a lot
of people and it's not generating results, then we have
to explore, what are the conversations you're having, what's your
follow up look like? How are you nurturing? Are you
training by doing? Are you following the other core principles?
There's a lot of questions, right, But if we can
(45:26):
just start with this idea of meeting more people and
get your calendar filling up and get more people into
your network and your sphere, then we can optimize that
and we can work on it. But until then, who cares?
Right Like, if you don't have twelve meetings a week
that you're not getting success from, start by getting twelve
(45:46):
meetings a week. Right. Once you get the twelve a week,
yes we can have conversations about how to get more
out of them. But right now, most, if not the
majority of people listening to this don't have full calendars,
and if they do, it's full of stuff that's not significant.
So why not just meet some more people and fill
your calendar? Then again, we can optimize it. We can
control the metrics that we can control, and I can
teach you how to do that. But for now, just
(46:08):
fill your calendar, meet it a lot of amazing people,
and then actually enjoy it.
Speaker 4 (46:14):
Nothing against BNI or LinkedIn or any of the other.
But I think we're somewhat doing it all wrong, and
if we were to take your approach, I think we
would be much more successful and much more authentic, more
importantly in our connections. That's the key, Devin. I know
you have a great book that Coach held up earlier.
You also have a group too.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
How can we learn more.
Speaker 4 (46:37):
About you and potentially get in touch appreciate that?
Speaker 2 (46:41):
Yeah, so Connection Expansion Book. That's the book up here.
It's the one Coach held up. So you can grab
it on Amazon paperback, hardcover ebook, and there's an audiobook.
If you want to listen to me for an hour
and fifty four minutes walk through the whole book, you can.
I did narrate it, and don't hold that against me.
All the others us on my website so devinsizemore dot com,
(47:02):
dv I n Size than More dot com. Yes, I
host the ACES Connection group, and so if you want
to build your network strategically, whether you're a college kid,
a billionaire, or somewhere in between, come hang out with us.
We have amazing professionals and collectively we're a group of
givers that are strategically building each other's network. And the
(47:23):
one thing I'll share about the group that we don't
usually talk about is we do a personal win and
a professional win to start. That's the magic of the
group because that's where we build real relationships virtually, really quick. Yes,
we make dozens of connections and amazing things happen, but
it's real people, real connections, and there's nothing else. There's
no positions I need you to hold, there's no metrics
(47:44):
we're holding you to. There's no random drama in the group.
It is simply show up, get out what you put in,
and meet cool people.
Speaker 4 (47:53):
Wow. So more information, Devin size More is site down
in the show notes, as well as a link to
that book too that you can pick up and learn more. Devin,
We've learned so much from you and we're excited to
stay connected and see how we can help each other's
networks too. Devin size More, thank you so much for
your time today, man.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
Thank you guys. Yeah, amazing questions and really enjoyed this
and we went all over the spectrum and so hopefully
the listener has got a nugget somewhere out of one
of the stories and look forward to future conversation.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
Thank you for joining us this week at the Limitless
Leadership Lounge. To listen to this episode again and to
find previous episodes, check us out on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
and Sprinker. You can also get in on the conversation
find us on Facebook and Instagram. Then tell three of
your friends to join in as well. Coach Branuma and John.
We'll be back again next week for another try generational
(48:45):
leadership discussion. We'll talk to you then on the Limitless
Leadership Lounge
This podcast is a proud member of the Teach Better
podcast network, Better Today, Better Tomorrow, and the podcast to
get you there.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
You can find out.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
More at Teechbetter dot com slash podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
It's a mindset shift that really aligns with prosperity. Right,
and so let's get into the real fun conversation because
I think we talk surface level so much. The reason
we do three connections and if you can do that
with everyone you meet is it forces you to listen,
It forces you to ask good questions, It forces you
to be able to edify the people you're meeting, and
(00:32):
it gives you permission to follow up. Right, and everything
about it has nothing to do with your product or service, right,
It has to do with you.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Do you want to be a leader in a constantly
changing world. Our emerging leaders look different, come from various
backgrounds and from all different age groups.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Leadershift is changing.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
And it's hard to keep up. But the good news
you can be a leader too. You can be an
emerging leader. Welcome to the Limitless Leadership Lounge. Try generational
conversation for emerging leaders. Come spend some time with us
to discuss leadership from three angles. The coach Jim Johnson,
the Professor, doctor Renuma Kareem, the host, John Gering a
(01:14):
monthly guest, and you get in on the conversation on
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make yourself comfortable.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
Well, we are reunited here on the Limitless Leadership Lounge.
I am John Garring, joined us always by Coach Jim
Johnson and doctor Ranuma Kareem, who's out in Bangladesh today,
joining us internationally.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
And that's what we.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Love about our show is not only are we helping
the young and emerging leaders here in the US, where
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(02:00):
We'd love to hear your thoughts. So, Coach, we also
got introduced to this really, really cool guy who I'm
excited to dive into. We're talking about Connecting today, we're
talking about his book and so much more so, Coach,
go ahead and introduce our guest Devin.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah, I'm really excited.
Speaker 5 (02:15):
Our good friend Ben Albert introduced us to Devin and
I had a chance to chat with him and virtually
and I really impressed what he's doing. So I'm going
to share a little bit about Devon. He has spent
his career building and growing businesses that align with his values,
from launching his first marketing agency right out of college
to creating an innovative consulting practices in a cat cafe,
(02:39):
which I think I will ask a question about. Is
the author of The Connection Expansion, which I'll show in
just a moment. I read the book and it was awesome.
In addition, he has a passion for storytelling. He's conducted
expert interviews a while and enjoys learning from other people,
digging into unique stories, and sharing these stories with the world.
(02:59):
He works with a million dollar author, he loves speaking
and motivating others, and when he's not working or doing
any of what I share, you can finally likely find
him on a golf course, spending time with a family,
or travelling. So welcome to the Limitless Leadership Lounge.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
So good to be here with all of you. Thank
you for having me and yeah, just based on our
quick conversation before we record. I'm really excited to dive in.
And I know, Coach, we've had some great conversations and yeah,
it's nice to meet everybody else, and yeah, excited to
share some value with the listeners. Well, we are going
to dive in.
Speaker 5 (03:33):
We don't always do this right away, but we're going
to do it this time.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
And that is the book.
Speaker 5 (03:38):
I got an opportunity to read that book, and I
really is impressed. In fact, I've been taking some of
the ideas. But you know, obviously you know we can't
spend an hour talking about the book, but so let's synthesize.
I know it's a step process in connecting. Can you
share a little bit about what people would get from
(04:00):
reading the book the connection expansion?
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah, definitely. So I've spent the last fifteen years dialing
in a system that makes you the authority in rooms
where you don't have competition, and there is an art,
a science, and a system to make that a reality.
And this book is my very transparent way of teaching
that to the world. And so this is not a
(04:23):
hype book where I'm going to tease you and then
lead you to something later. This is a book that
literally walks you through the theory, the principles, the steps,
the templates, the language, everything you need to be able
to implement a system where you can stop cold calling,
you can build your network strategically, and you can generate
way more results than the cold calling, marketing and other
(04:45):
things you're doing right now to build your business. So
that's what's in the book. Like I said, it's the
whole system, from the questions for networking, how to follow up,
when to follow up, the scripts to use, what a
connection meeting is, how to add value to your network,
how to nurture long term it's all of it very good.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
And so we also heard you on a real business
connections show with Ben Albert, and I know you have
a good relationship with him too, and you talked a
lot about your formula for connecting and particularly the three
connection whole formula. Could you tell us a little bit
about that and why that's so effective, especially for young
leaders just growing their careers.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Yeah, it's a mindset shift that really aligns with prosperity, right,
and so let's get into the real fun conversation, because
I think we talk surface level so much. The reason
we do three connections and if you can do that
with everyone you meet is it forces you to listen,
It forces you to ask good questions, It forces you
to be able to edify the people you're meeting, and
(05:43):
it gives you permission to follow up, right, And everything
about it has nothing to do with your product or service, right,
It has to do with you truly showing up for people,
being innately curious and adding value as quick, fast and
often as you can. And adding value in a relationship
is how we deepen relationships quickly, especially in a virtual world,
(06:06):
like if you're doing stuff out of market, you're not
face to face, belly to belly sitting in a coffee shop.
You have to find other ways to add value quickly
so you can deepen the relationships fast. Right, Having a
book helps, but really adding the connections and making those
that's the best. And then the best part about it
is you're adding value to both parties, right, because you're
connecting people who can strategically align or do jves or
(06:27):
integrated offers. And then again you have permission to follow up,
So three weeks later you get permission to check in
with both parties and say, hey, how are those introductions,
and so now instead of having this network where you
have a meeting, you don't follow up, they don't follow up,
they become a contact in your database that you never
talked to. Now you have a system where you meet
someone twenty four hours later you're adding value. Three weeks
(06:48):
later you have permission to check in, and then you
move them into a six week nurture cycle. No one
in your network goes cold, and that lays the foundation
for long term success out to you, people connecting you,
people advocating on your beat, people inviting you to stuff
that you can't get invited to. And for the young
listeners who might just be starting their journey getting the
(07:09):
internships you want, finding the job with no competition. We're
talking six figure job offers with no competition. It's just
you because you have found yourself as the authority in
a room where no one else is playing. That might
mean a business situation, it might mean an internship job opportunity,
it might mean a nonprofit getting a six to seventy
eight nine figure check that they didn't know existed. So
(07:31):
that's really what we're trying to chase, and that's why
connections are the foundation of the system.
Speaker 6 (07:37):
So wonderful that you are talking about connection in this
era where we are connected with everybody through Facebook and
other social media. But still I find many of the
gen zs are not being able to form that strong
bond or relationship with each other, still there in their
(07:59):
own silos. So for those gen zs, how can we
convince them and make them understand how the power of
connections is so important for success in your life in
our lives? So can you give some some tidbits to
(08:19):
the gen zs who are listening to us, like why
connection is important for success?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Yeah, so let's just use There's two ways I'll answer this.
One will be statistically and then one I can read
a list. Both are fascinating. So let's just start with
statistics because I like stats. So let's talk about January
just for myself. So this has nothing to do with
anyone I coach, mentor none of the people that I'm
working with. This is just my metrics. I had fifty
(08:44):
two meetings in January, so that's fifty two meetings with
people I didn't know. I made ninety eight connections following
those meetings. I received twenty seven connections in January again,
twenty seven new people I get to meet and connect with.
Seven of those connections were direct leads for my core
product and service that I was offering. Three of those
ended up closing. In the month of January, two webinars, recorded,
(09:06):
nine podcasts recorded, one event attended that I was invited
to that was sold out, and we booked eleven upcoming events,
three of which were sponsors and events that don't have sponsors.
One hundred percent of that is built on the system.
Zero percent of that is cold calling, cold outreach, marketing funnels,
(09:27):
brand awareness, it's none of that. Do I do all
that stuff, yes, But all the stats I just listed,
that's just a result of the system built on the
back of connections. And so if you were out there
looking to hypergrow business, this will build the foundation, right,
This will give you the same success you're trying to
achieve elsewhere. And then has promised I want to read
(09:47):
this because I think this is fascinating. So these are
real things that have happened with people in my network.
So I did a what if statement section in the books.
I'm just going to share it. So, whether you're a
business owner, a young entrepreneur, a spouse of someone and
all these things are real outcomes from using the system.
So what if you never had to market for an
open position at your company because your network filled that
position for you. What if you could launch a business
(10:09):
for fifty percent of what it should cost because of
the untapped value in your network. That goes back to
our cat cafe, which we could talk about. What if
you could save money and have a better experience? Will
traveling right, free hotels, free rooms, airbnbs, invites to exclusive
events all that happens. What if you were invited to
exclusive invite only opportunities where there's no other way into
(10:30):
the room. You can't buy a ticket right, you can't
go online and get it, but you somehow end up
in that opportunity or that room. What if you can
get one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars a year
job offer not have to compete for it. What if
you can secure an ideal internship without having to apply?
You get invited, you get asked to join. What if
you could find an attorney right who typically is booked out.
(10:50):
They'll take a call in twenty four minutes, work on
your case in seventy two hours, and solve the problem
for you. Attorneys don't do that. You know why they
do that because you were referred in and you have
a great network. What if you could search for service
providers just in your database and instantly they take your call.
You get better pricing and better service. All of these
are a sample of the outcomes of just having good connections.
Speaker 6 (11:12):
Really, sorry, I just remember, Devin, how did you become
such a great connector? I have to ask this question, sorry,
coach the skills? Yeah, what are the skills? How did
you develop the skills, like consciously or subconsciously becoming such
a great connector?
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Yeah. So first I want to let everyone know that's listening.
If you're an introvert or extrovert, the system works. So
if you're scared of going to networking events and scared
of rooms, great, you'll probably actually do better than an
extrovert because you'll listen more and ask good questions. Extroverts
tend to talk too much and overcrowd the conversation. So
I was lucky, right that I have a journalism degree
(11:54):
and I learned how to ask really good questions and
I love storytelling. What I found network, right is none
of us enjoy the experience. Really because there's so many
used car salesmen and networking events. Right you go in
and there's shoving business cards at you, and everyone's trying
to sell something. And so I said, you know what,
I don't want to do that, And so I went
on this mission to one control what I can control.
(12:17):
So everything in the system and everything I do has
to be inside of my control. I will never benchmark
myself or my success with things I can't control. So
that's key to it. The other thing is just truly
focusing on my core value, which is helping others and
knowing that the law of getting things back right has
(12:38):
to you got to put it out. And so so
many people are focusing on the getting things back part
without the giving part. And so I think if you
combine this innate curiosity, the journalism questions, the passion for
helping people, and this focus on systems and controlling what
you can control, that lays the foundation which I've perfected
and then continue to perfect. We're still changing language to optimize,
(12:59):
We're we're still changing how frequently we follow up and
what the subject looks like. We're still adding in scripts
for what happens if you forgot to follow up with
someone on how do you re engage in have a
real conversation? Like, all these things are still getting dialed
in because it's an organic system that has to adapt
to current technology, current focus, trends, things like that. But
(13:20):
the good news is everyone can do it. Whether you're confident,
not confident, introvert, extrovert, it doesn't matter. It's a system.
Speaker 5 (13:27):
You know. As well said and something you said. And
I kid people because I do a lot of leadership
presentations that I think effective leaders are the c qas
the chief question askers. And with that in mind, can
you give us a couple I want to jump into
the cafe, but I got to ask this question first,
is that can you give us a couple of sample questions?
(13:48):
You know that we can delve to help people with
their networking and connecting, you know, beyond the famous how
are you doing? You know, and those types of things.
Can you give us a few examples that would be
the audience?
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yeah, most definitely. So there's two series of moments where
questions are really important. The first is when you're at
a networking event or a first meeting opportunity. Right in
the book, I even tell a story about doing this
at a birthday party. So the questions I'm going to
share work whether you're at a coffee shop, a structured
networking event, a virtual summit, or a birthday party. The
second set of questions is when you get into what
(14:22):
I call a connection meeting. Again, this is not a
sales meeting. This is a get to know you meeting.
There is a formula for success there. That's another set
of questions. So we'll start with the networking side, because
that's a side where I think a lot of people
really struggle when networking. I used the same four questions.
I've used the same four questions forever. I teach the
four questions, and if you ever get asked the four questions,
it's because it's someone I worked with. And in the
(14:44):
Reno market, it became really funny because we would go
to networking events and I've trained so many people in
this market that you would have people look across the
room and be like, Yeah, you worked with Devin, didn't you, right,
because they would start to hear the flow. And so
in networking couple things for success. You want to control
the conversation and ask the questions first, right, because that's
(15:05):
going to get you in and out of the conversation. Second,
you need to get out of the conversation. So if
you can stick to a four question script, the person
you're talking to will probably ask you the same four questions.
So now you only need to know how to answer
four questions, and there's a natural close to the conversation.
So it gives you kind of this nice, wrapped up
moment where you can move on to the next conversation
instead of getting stuck at an hour networking event in
(15:26):
a thirty minute conversation. So four questions here. They are,
firstus what do you do? That's the obvious one, right,
we have to understand what the person we're talking to does,
because that's going to give us the premise for are
they an owner? Are they a professional? Or they a
salesperson or they a service provider wood industry. So much
gets answered in that one question. Next, we ask how
long have you been doing that? This is a really
(15:48):
critical question that gets missed so often, but it's such
a good qualifier because it tells us how experienced they
are if they're transitioning, and so based on their answer,
if they've been doing something for under a year, we
ask about the past, Hey, that's awesome. What'd you do before?
How'd you end up here? Because now we're mining for
additional data in their previous life, right, their previous network,
(16:09):
previous experience. Where's their real expertise at Because the new
thing they're doing is a new expertise, right, their network's
probably not very mature there, they're still learning if they've
been doing it over a year. I'll say a statement like, man, coach,
you must love what you do, and then they're gonna
answer one of two ways. They're gonna say yes, and
they're gonna passionately talk about what they do. So now
three questions in you have the person passionately talking about
(16:32):
themselves and what they do. That's a memory hook and
it makes you stand out. Or they're gonna admit that
they're stuck, which is the other side. They're gonna be
like you know what, No, like, I'm just stuck in this.
Actually I don't enjoy it. I'm here, and they'll start complaining,
which is great because somehow you just became a friend
in three questions, right, because that's what friends do. And
(16:53):
then the fourth question you always want to ask about
how you can help the other person that question has
different flavors based on your personality. But if you're at
a business event, it's typically hey, what's a great connection
or great referral for you? If you're at a birthday party,
might be like, Hey, what are you looking for that
I could help solve? Like what do you need? Do
you need a cat sitter or a babysitter? At what?
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Like?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Your car got totaled? Do you need a body shop?
What do you need? And how can I help? Has
to be your last question. When you ask that question,
make sure you get their contact information so that you
can follow up, because that's the part where you control
the system. So there's your four questions. There's a whole
bunch of psychology behind why we ask them, But if
you ask the four, you'll know enough to know how
(17:33):
to follow up and get people into a connection meeting.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
That Let's dive into that fourth question too, because I
think that's where a lot of people go wrong in connecting. Obviously,
you would think that you want introductions to your ideal client,
right or is there sometimes a better introduction for you
to make or for you to receive in a connection?
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Such a good question, So yes, in a general networking
event where we're just meeting people for the first time.
Their answer will be something client specific, which is fine
because that's what the world has told us to ask for.
Is we want to ask for clients. A matter of fact,
I was scrolling through social this morning and like all
the coaching on sales for referrals is about asking clients
(18:21):
for clients. Right, So that's fine, that's what you will
get at a networking event now for you, once you're
equipped with the system and you understand why we don't
answer with that. And here's the problem. So the quote
I tell everyone to put down and we talked about
this on Ben's show as well, right, and I talk
about every time is everybody wants to buy, nobody wants
(18:42):
to be sold. We are a consumer society, and so
stop trying to hard sell everybody. Everybody is positioned to buy.
You need to make it easy to buy, and yes,
there are skills and techniques that make it easier, but
you don't need to force people to buy. The other side, too,
is if John, if you say, hey, this is my
ideal person and it's a client type and I go, okay, great,
(19:02):
I'm now profiling my database. Going who do I know
that could buy your product or service. The timing's right,
I think they have the money, and I'm okay positioning
them to you for you to sell to them. That's
a lot of barriers for a connection. Not to mention
we're positioning people to be sold. It goes back to
the quote if instead, and we'll use real estate as
an example, If I ask a realtor, who do you
(19:23):
want to connect with? They either are going to answer
with their ideal client type. If they're savvy, they're going
to then go up a level and they're gonna say
I want to meet mortgage lenders or insurance agents. It's
always the same two buckets. Great. Guess what, every other
realtor wants to meet the same things, right, So now
we're even though you went up and you feel savvy, right,
and it's easier for me to connect you to those people,
we're just competing with the same things. Instead, a realtor
(19:45):
could say, you know, I'm looking for in home sales providers,
people who door knock and end up in people's homes
selling them something, doors, windows, appliances. It doesn't matter they're
in people's homes selling I want to meet those people
because we can have collaborative conversations. Plus, I need those
people for my client. Now I can go through my
list and be like, yeah, I know like fourteen of
those people, and now it's easy for me to make
(20:06):
an introduction because there's no friction. Right, there's no art
of sale, there's no positioning needed. No, it's like, Hey, John,
I want to introduce you to coach. Here's why I
think you guys are probably selling to the same people.
You should probably talk and now you can have a
strategic conversation. It makes it easier for me to add
value and make the connection. So as we get deeper
(20:26):
into this process and we really work on language that
unlocks a whole another level to the system and allows
you to make these connections with no friction.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
That's the key. Yeah, No, that's a really good, good point. Renew,
I know you have a question.
Speaker 6 (20:41):
Yeah, yeah. I loved when I was going through your
LinkedIn profile that you were mentioning curiosity and also you
want to learn about people, and that is a problem
that I have as well. My family always complained that
I'm always talking to strangers everywhere, the plane, in the car, everywhere,
(21:02):
and then I end up being friends and interestingly, there
was one person whom I became, who I befriended in
the plane in the long twenty hours trip, and through
him I found one of my asset, one of the
main strongest core executive member of my nonprofit. You never know,
(21:22):
sometimes surprises without any intention, when you are open to
meet people without any agenda, you can be surprised. So
my question to you is, what are these elements when
you are going to this network sessions and things like that.
Do you always have an agenda in your mind? But
(21:43):
what is your technique? How do you really connect? How
important is empathy or genuineness and all those emotions to
connect and build those relationships?
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yeah, this is fun. Yeah, this conversation is already so good.
So first let me talk about that experience you had
on the plane. Right. So, when I was writing the book,
I had a different subtitle and it was something like
a Duplicatable Systematic Approach to Grow your Referral Network or
something really technical. That was amazing because it's what it does.
And then I got feedback that said, like, yeah, that's sure,
(22:16):
that's what it does, but that's not what it does
because what the system actually does and the reason why
the subtitle changed is you are one connection away from
massive success in your life and business. I want to
plant that seed that you don't know. You have no
clue what that one connection is. You have no clue
where you're going to find it. You cannot gamify that
and have a guarantee. Again, you can't control that. What
(22:38):
you can control is not shooting yourself on the foot
before you start. And so when we talk about going
to an event, the first thing I tell people, and
I do this in rooms all the time, and I'll
ask through when you go to a networking event, what's
your goal? And usually a part of the room's going
to answer with to meet prospective clients, or to find opportunities,
or to fill my pipeline. And then one smart person
(23:01):
in the room is going to be like to meet people. Great,
that's it. What I first need you to do is
just commit next to you to get out of the
car and open the door and patch yourself on the
back that you actually went into the event. And then
that's it. All you need to do the rest of
the time is just have good conversations, ask the four questions,
gather people's contact information. That's what you can control actively. Listen,
(23:24):
don't be distracted, don't be looking around the room. Ask
the four questions, Answer the four questions they're going to
ask you, move out of the conversation, move to the
next one. At a networking man, That's all we're trying
to capture now when we get fast forward to a
connection meeting, where we're really digging deeper into the relationship.
If we're in a thirty minute meeting, twenty five minutes
of the meeting, is you asking questions the other person answering.
(23:45):
If you're in an hour meeting, it's about forty five
to fifty minutes, is you asking questions the other person answering?
You should only be talking about yourself in the last
five to ten minutes at most. And what's crazy is
you will close more deals in that last five ten minutes.
Then you can fathom if you do the first part correct.
And so when we go in there, there's a formula
(24:07):
for that, and we tease it earlier, but this will
really go to your question because this is where we
start to show we're curious and we're empathetic. First, I
want to know everything about today. What are you doing?
Why are you doing it? Who are you selling to?
What's your goals? Because that really helps me understand you today.
I always then go to the past, tell me your story. Now,
(24:27):
that question alone, subconsciously is telling the person you're talking
to that you are way more curious and different than
everyone else they talk to. Because I actually want to
know how'd you get here? Like why the heck are
the two of us sitting here? And you're a pest
control business owner? Like how did that happen? Because I
know as a little kid, you didn't go I want
to kill pests for a living, right, So tell me
(24:48):
the story and then shut up and listen, right, Like,
let's actually listen to the answer and take notes. If
you don't have a notepad in front of you and
you're not taking notes, or you're not typing on your keyboard,
you're not listening. So take notes. When we talk about
the future, I always go from there to where are
you going? Paint the biggest dream? And then while they're
doing that, you have to agree. You have to respond
(25:11):
with excitement, like, John, I love that that's what you're doing. Man,
I'm so fired up for you. That's amazing because I
believe that, Like I'm so excited for what everyone is
doing every day in their life, and I want you
to achieve that because I know if you achieve your goal,
you're going to impact the community, your family, and all
of your employees if you're a business owner. And then
the last thing we always do is we ask what's
(25:32):
in the way, because that's where we start to really
decide have we earned enough trust in the last twenty
minutes or forty minutes for you to be open and honest.
And that's the gauge of if I've done a good meeting,
because at that point, if you open up and say,
you know what, you know, what's in my way? This, this,
and this. If they open up and they're that transparent
(25:52):
in the very first meeting you're having with them, you
already have a relationship and now we just need to
add value in toto we can do and so again
there's a formula for that. But the formula is all
about the other person. It's all about asking about today,
asking about the past, asking about the future, supporting their future,
and then solving problems with the challenges that they share. Again,
(26:14):
if they don't share challenges, you probably haven't asked or
gone deep enough in the conversation yet.
Speaker 6 (26:20):
Right, And I think that's why may Angelo said that
people will not remember what you said, but they will
remember how you made them feel. So through that communication
and asking questions that feeling the emotion, I think those
really matter when you're building those connections and relationships.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Yeah, I want to be your biggest advocate today period.
I want your meeting with me. I want you to
leave and be like, damn, that guy believed in me. Yes,
I did, and I do, and I believe in you
so much. I'm gonna make connections to help you. I'm
going to give you tools to support you. And yes,
if my product your service aligns, yes i'm gonna help
you and I'll sell that to you. But I just
(27:01):
want to advocate for you.
Speaker 5 (27:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
The young lady I met with yesterday, she sent me
an email before I got home, like this was an
in person meeting. Before I got home, she emailed me,
thanking me for the meeting and thanking me for empowering her,
and thanking me for not selling to her, and thanking
me for not trying to recruit her, and thanking me
for giving her real tools and resources. That's what I want,
(27:26):
That's where I know I'm succeeding. Did she buy anything yet?
Speaker 5 (27:29):
No?
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Well she I don't know. I don't care because I
controlled that I can control, and I had a positive
impact on that person. And I know that I can
go to sleep tonight and every night knowing that the six, seven,
eight people I met are going to feel positive and
they're going to feel inspired and impacted by every conversation
I'm having. That again, I can control.
Speaker 5 (27:51):
It's a great point, Devin, really pressed with so much
content you've given us, but I know our listeners are
on their I just seek to talk about the cat cafe.
So can you tell us the story of the cat Cafe?
And then I'll share one or two leadership lessons you
learn from the cat cafe.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Yeah, so the cat cat Cafe is such a fun story.
So in my friend group or my inside circle, we
have a joke of a what email address are you
using today? Because I went through a series of a
decade where yes, I've always done consulting, but I've owned
a lot of random companies and businesses, and I just
love business. But I remember going to my friends saying
I'm gonna watch a cat cafe. One hundred percent of
my friends being like, you're crazy, what the heck are
(28:33):
you doing, and me going, well, I'm gonna do this,
so it'll be great. And what we're gonna do is
we're gonn launch it, we're gonna scale it, we're gonna
systematize it, we're gonna sell it, and we're gonna do
it in a way no one's ever done. And so
the Cat Cafe, for those of you who don't know,
the front of the business is a coffee shop. You
can get treats and coffee. The back of the business
is called the cat lounge, and so you can pay
by hour to hang out with the cats. It's great
(28:53):
for senior citizens who can have cats, college students who
can't have animals on campus, people whose spouse is allergic,
but they still want the interaction with cats. There's a
lot of mental benefits and a lot of other reasons
to spend time with animals. And part of the cats
that are in there are adoptable, so there is an
adoption nonprofit rescue partnership in there as well. And then
we had an event space, and so my wife and
(29:14):
I every time we travel we visit cat cafes, and
we went to one in Hollywood, and we went, man,
this is really crazy. I looked at it from a
business standpoint and went, there's thirty five people in here
paying twenty dollars to be here. They just told me
they sail out four sessions a day. I'm doing the
math going for a coffee shop. This is actually like
pretty sustainable and significant revenue, Like that's actually like a
(29:36):
lot on a per day coffee shop. Turn and then
my wife, who's amural artist, is looking around, going, man,
I could design this way better. And there's was nice,
like it was very clean aesthetically, but she was like, man,
we could do something really cool. Make this like immersive experience.
If you've ever been to Vegas in the area fifty
whatever it's called, where it's like the immersive kitchen art experience,
it's that concept. So we went on that and we went, hey, hey,
(30:00):
we want to invest, and I like business, and so
we came back and chased down a commercial property. Forty
five days after that we opened the doors. So for
those of you, let's reemphasize that in forty five days,
we opened a full fledged retail business with all of
our certificates and approvals with the Health Department, everyone, which,
trust me, there's some fun conversations there. And we sold
(30:23):
the business after six months of being opened to an
employee and they're still in business today. They've rebranded and
launched a nonprofit to support the business. So I'm not
sure how many of those things break traditional business logic,
but it's all of them. Because the fact that we
opened a retail business in forty five days for under
sixty grand and then sold the business in six months
to an employee who paid us off early and is
(30:45):
still in business, that there's so much there that had
to be done right. And that's what we were trying
to prove. We were trying to prove that we could
go into an industry that we've never owned ourselves. I've
done a lot of consulting in that space. We could
do it in a timeframe and a budget, it didn't
really make sense. We could do huge launch and then
we could sell it and empower that employee to succeed
(31:06):
into the future. That's amazing. And so going to your
leadership question, it's interesting because I have been in corporate
and I've had six figure teams that everyone on my
team makes six figure and is the best at what
they do. And then in the coffee shop world, we're
talking about general retail, right, we're talking about first job,
second jobs, you know, unless you're getting to the management level.
(31:28):
We did pay really well. We gave our team a
lot of other benefits and relationship things. But at the
end of the day, your team will succeed depending on
how empathetic you are and how well your processes are designed.
And so for us, we built a machine right. There
were no questions. Everything was documented, the opening checklist, the
closing checklist, how you greet people, the scripts you use,
(31:51):
what you wear, it's all done. And then we love
on our employees, right, So we give them a budget
to buy shirts that they're happy to wear that are
cat themed, and we buy meals for the team week
and we do some of those things, and we have
daily stands up so there's constant communication. We do weekly
team meetings where the whole team comes in and we
feed them and have great conversation. We do enhancement and
(32:11):
training for the team. Like we love on the team,
and that's always been my approach, and it's just exactly
how I build networks, right, and we get to know
our team members and so yeah, fascinating business. So many
cool things came out of it, so many amazing challenges
too that we didn't foresee but we overcame and just
a cool business project and it's an amazing business and
(32:33):
it does a lot of good in the community as well.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
In all your time in business, Devin, and also connecting
in general, I can imagine there's been a lot of
frustrations and a lot of connections that, Oh, you make
it sound so easy, right.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Thirty minute call.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
You ask people a lot of questions and.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Then you know, like boom, there you go.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
Right, But I'm sure there are some frustrating times too,
where there are times where you felt like you've wasted
your time on this particular connection or maybe this particulular
business idea. What do you do in those moments or
do you ever consider anything, any connection, any idea, a
waste of time.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Yeah, so let's answer. Let me answer two parts of
that question separately. So there's value in every connection. It's
one of my core principles that I will stand on
that that does not mean that every person I meet
with will be someone long term where there's value, because
if they're a taker, so meaning that they won't make
connections or not trying to do anything other than sell.
They don't they won't value the connections I send to them, Like, Eh,
(33:33):
but they're going to get the same experience as everybody else, right,
Like I'm still going to ask the questions, I'm still
gonna make the connections. I'm still going to nurture them.
I just may not want to pull them into my
world more than that, because the takers can be toxic
to the network, right, because they're not going to go
out there and advocate and add value, which is such
a core mission to what I'm trying to do. So
(33:54):
I do stand on the belief that there's value in everything.
Since I've done presentations fifteen years ago in front of rooms,
my life slide was always a cup of coffee, and
my invite was I'll meet with anyone to talk about anything.
And it's still a true statement and I will still
do it today. I will still meet with the college
kid who just wants to pick my brain. I don't care.
I will meet with you and talk to you and
we will have a great conversation. Now looping to the
(34:14):
other side, Yes, I have made millions and I've lost millions.
Actually in the span of ninety day period. Both of
those were true statements. I have destroyed relationships in business.
I have made amazing relationships in business. I have been sued.
I have had this sue. So yes, I can give
(34:34):
you all of the stories from what it's like to
be extremely successful and have everything you want to making
a ton of bad decisions and bad hires and losing
it all to a business partner that extorted the whole
business and you know, drug the investors into the ditch.
And the one business partner got cancer, he died. The
other business partner married his wife. I can give you
(34:56):
stories that will blow your mind when it comes to
busin business. But I'm still here. And so what my
message to people listening is, there is nothing that's only
going to be positive. There's no business. I've never met
an entrepreneur. I've never met anyone in the business world
who hasn't been hit by a bus. And at some
(35:19):
point the bus will hit you. And so if it
hasn't prepared for it, And the way do you prepare
for it is you have a very clear future vision
because you need something to anchor on in the future,
and you need a support system. So your spouse is
your first line of defense. An amazing spouse will get
you very far. And your inner circle is critical. You
need mentors, coaches, masterminds in an inner circle that when
(35:41):
you are at your worst and you want to quit,
and quitting could be very dark. This could be a
very dark quitting conversation. You need to be able to
call someone who can speak life back into you, and
you need to be that for other people too. But
I have made those calls. I have sat there in
the car and had to call someone and just weeped
and said, I'm done. I quit, I quit, I quit
(36:03):
it all, I quit all of it. This is not
just a I quit my business conversation. This is like
I quit life conversation. And I've let my mentors go, no, Devin,
you're doing it. You're okay, right, we're here, And I
don't even get emotional talking about it, because those are
the dark moments. I don't think we talk about enough
in business. But every entrepreneur, in every business owner has
(36:23):
those moments where they just want to give up. And
if you're listening to this right now and that's a
mode you think you're in, look, let me be the
person I believe in you. Your friends may not, your
family may not shit, your spouse might think you're crazy. Today,
I believe in you. I believe in what you're chasing.
And as long as you're being authentic and you're actually
trying to help people, then go chase it. And yes,
(36:46):
the world will run you over with the bus, but
you're going to get back up and guess what You'll
be okay, right?
Speaker 6 (36:53):
And this is such a powerful uh statement. And I
believe all those challenges made you more stronger and resilient.
You also learned about things that you should do and
you should avoid. So from my life experience, when each
challenges come like oh so this is where I went
(37:13):
wrong and I need to modify and change things. So
I think those are the blessed time where we become
stronger to deal with our life and come and be resilient.
The last question to you referrals. I have seen the
many people asking me for referrals in the Lincoln whom
(37:37):
I never even knew, So I'm not interested in giving
referrals to those individuals. But there are some people who
come out I probably am at once, but something stuck
their conversation the way they approached even the way they
ask for referral, and that convinces me like, this person
(37:59):
is worth my referrals. So some tips to all those
who are seeking referrals. What should they do and what
should they avoid? Then they want somebody to give them
good reference.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Yeah, So first, one of the core principles is trained
by doing, and so so many people ask before they've given.
That's not a formula for success. And so if you
want connections and referrals, if you want that to be
your reality, then you need to generate that. Right. I
find it's a three to one ratio, So three that
I give one that I get back. That's a perfect
(38:36):
ratio for me because I know the game, right, I
know that if I do one hundred, I get thirty.
That's very predictable. That's exciting to me. That's first. Second,
the ask is always wrong, and we talked about that earlier,
John with your question. Right, they're asking for like this
direct sale. However, if they were to reach out and
say like Devin, look, I know you're networking and I
saw you were on XYZ podcasts and I really appreciate
(38:59):
what they did, Like could you introduce me to that person?
Because I'd love to have a strategic conversation. The answer
is yes, right, because you're not asking me to position
you to sell to someone, especially if I don't know you.
But if you reach out and say, like, hey, Devin,
I saw you were at that women's event the other day,
I would love to engage with that. I do a
lot of work with nonprofits. Could you connect me with
(39:19):
the person who hosts that? Yes, yes I could, right?
Or Devin, I know you go to a ton of
events and you're on a ton of stages. I'm trying
to be on stages too, Like, could you just like
share a couple events, or maybe you have a couple
of event hosts that maybe I could just connect with
because I just love to be on more stages. Sure. Right, Again,
all those asks are educated asks, specific asks, and they're
(39:41):
not to be sold. They're not positioning you to be sold.
And then the other part of this is why the
heck are you doing that on a first meeting anyways
or a first touch? I LinkedIn, I did book one.
It's like one a month. Maybe I'll actually book messages
and I probably get three to five hundred messages a month,
But all the messages start good. And this is where
(40:02):
they do great, right, Like the first touch is always like, oh,
I see we're connected with a lot of few people.
Let's connect. Yeah, I'll connect to everyone. That's fine. And
then the next message is always hey, this is what
I do. Is that something you like to talk about? Like,
oh my god, like just stop. Instead, the next message
should be an educated thing, saying like hey, I saw
you do this, or I see this on your website,
(40:23):
or see you wrote this book. I'm innately curious about that,
like could we connect and just chat? Sure? Are they
gonna sell to me on the call? Yes, but at
least they'll book a call, and I will reward them
with a meeting because at least they were sort of
genuine in their outreach, right. And then on the meeting,
I'll let them sell to me, and then I'll just
push them back into my four questions. I'll control the
(40:44):
meeting and we'll add value. Right. But there's some tips
around that for asking for referrals. I think you can
get so much further if you stop just chasing the
client today and the short sighted money, and you're looking
for bigger strategic asks. Your network can produce that way
easier for you and then just do research like educated
asks will generate way more results than uneducated general asks.
Speaker 5 (41:07):
That's great, well, Devin. My final question I had a
bunch of questions, but unfortunately right out of time, but
we appreciate your great insights today is that I saw
that you have done some work with college students and
social media marketing, and social media is so big, and
(41:27):
I'm curious, can you give us a couple tips on
what you taught students to help them be more effective
in the social media?
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Yeah? So super fun. Yes, I was an adjunct professor
and I taught social media marketing at Sierra Nevada University,
which is now rebrand to do another university name having
a marketing agency. I get asked marketing questions a lot.
I love playing in the social media field and it
was fun. It was fun to design a course. So
I fully designed the course and what we covered, and
(41:56):
what I would tell you is you cannot be an
expert on a platform you're not on, and so that's
the first thing. And I always use Facebook or metas
as the core metric. Right, they still have the biggest
user by like a huge number, yet most the younger
generation doesn't play there anymore, yet they want to leverage
social media for success. Well, why would you not be
(42:18):
on the nine bazillion pound gorilla where everybody else is playing, right,
So the first message is like, you've got to be
on the platforms that you're trying to either use or understand.
So do I have a TikTok account? Yes? Am I
on it all the time? Yes? Why? Because I'm looking
for what are the trends, what's working? What videos are
getting engagement? What are they asking? Is it the game videos?
(42:41):
Is the top ten list videos? Is it reshares? Is
it like? What are the things? And then actually pay attention? Right.
The other advice I get people is steal it. We
were in my connection group last week and it's funny.
I said this, and what are my buddies in there?
And he's like, no, no, no, it's best practices, right, looking
for best practices. I'm like yeah, and then steal it.
(43:02):
So every time I'm in front of a college class,
I call it plagiarism.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
Right.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
You go to college and it's like, don't plage your eyes,
it's so bad, it's whatever. Then you get in the
business world and it's like that's all you should be doing, right,
look for people who are doing amazing stuff, borrow that idea,
repurpose it into your world, and use it. So social
media that's the best. And so what I did every
week is I would have the students go on to
two different platforms and share a post that worked and
(43:26):
a post that didn't work, and why, like, visually this
post didn't work and had no engagement even from big brands,
or this post is really interesting got a ton of engagement,
And then why they believe that? Because that's what we're
looking for, right. We have to become an art of
the game that we're trying to play or a student
of the game that we're trying to play. And so
you've got to engage with it, learn from it, and
(43:47):
then you can teach it, work with it, or integrate
it into your own marketing.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (43:52):
So I know, Devin that you're doing a lot to
kind of redefine connecting, redefine what it is for you know,
people to go to networking events and stuff like that.
So can we just as we wrap up here, and
then certainly I want to ask you a couple more things,
first about your book and then about your connection group.
But what would you if you were to give a
(44:14):
concise definition of how you see connecting and networking, what
would it be.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Yeah, connecting is simply meeting people. That's it. It's just
the art of going out there and meeting people. And
that's where it stops. It always tries to become more
and that's where it usually starts to go wrong when
we're trying to sell or force it. In the book,
we talked about the definition between referral and connection, and
(44:42):
I think it's an important distinction. Right. A referral typically
is someone that's a prospective client that's teed up to
you with the assumption that they're going to buy because
of expressed interest. Right, So there's a lot of qualifiers.
A connection is simply one person connecting with another with
no assumptions and no intent. Now, the better you can
edify someone in, the more aligned you can see up
the connection to have a common conversation and have some intent, great,
(45:05):
But the intent's not to sell. And so I think
when it comes to networking and building relationships, just meet people.
Just meet people. Now, if you are meeting a lot
of people and it's not generating results, then we have
to explore, what are the conversations you're having, what's your
follow up look like? How are you nurturing? Are you
training by doing? Are you following the other core principles?
There's a lot of questions, right, But if we can
(45:26):
just start with this idea of meeting more people and
get your calendar filling up and get more people into
your network and your sphere, then we can optimize that
and we can work on it. But until then, who cares?
Right Like, if you don't have twelve meetings a week
that you're not getting success from, start by getting twelve
(45:46):
meetings a week. Right. Once you get the twelve a week,
yes we can have conversations about how to get more
out of them. But right now, most, if not the
majority of people listening to this don't have full calendars,
and if they do, it's full of stuff that's not significant.
So why not just meet some more people and fill
your calendar? Then again, we can optimize it. We can
control the metrics that we can control, and I can
teach you how to do that. But for now, just
(46:08):
fill your calendar, meet it a lot of amazing people,
and then actually enjoy it.
Speaker 4 (46:14):
Nothing against BNI or LinkedIn or any of the other.
But I think we're somewhat doing it all wrong, and
if we were to take your approach, I think we
would be much more successful and much more authentic, more
importantly in our connections. That's the key, Devin. I know
you have a great book that Coach held up earlier.
You also have a group too.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
How can we learn more.
Speaker 4 (46:37):
About you and potentially get in touch appreciate that?
Speaker 2 (46:41):
Yeah, so Connection Expansion Book. That's the book up here.
It's the one Coach held up. So you can grab
it on Amazon paperback, hardcover ebook, and there's an audiobook.
If you want to listen to me for an hour
and fifty four minutes walk through the whole book, you can.
I did narrate it, and don't hold that against me.
All the others us on my website so devinsizemore dot com,
(47:02):
dv I n Size than More dot com. Yes, I
host the ACES Connection group, and so if you want
to build your network strategically, whether you're a college kid,
a billionaire, or somewhere in between, come hang out with us.
We have amazing professionals and collectively we're a group of
givers that are strategically building each other's network. And the
(47:23):
one thing I'll share about the group that we don't
usually talk about is we do a personal win and
a professional win to start. That's the magic of the
group because that's where we build real relationships virtually, really quick. Yes,
we make dozens of connections and amazing things happen, but
it's real people, real connections, and there's nothing else. There's
no positions I need you to hold, there's no metrics
(47:44):
we're holding you to. There's no random drama in the group.
It is simply show up, get out what you put in,
and meet cool people.
Speaker 4 (47:53):
Wow. So more information, Devin size More is site down
in the show notes, as well as a link to
that book too that you can pick up and learn more. Devin,
We've learned so much from you and we're excited to
stay connected and see how we can help each other's
networks too. Devin size More, thank you so much for
your time today, man.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
Thank you guys. Yeah, amazing questions and really enjoyed this
and we went all over the spectrum and so hopefully
the listener has got a nugget somewhere out of one
of the stories and look forward to future conversation.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
Thank you for joining us this week at the Limitless
Leadership Lounge. To listen to this episode again and to
find previous episodes, check us out on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
and Sprinker. You can also get in on the conversation
find us on Facebook and Instagram. Then tell three of
your friends to join in as well. Coach Branuma and John.
We'll be back again next week for another try generational
(48:45):
leadership discussion. We'll talk to you then on the Limitless
Leadership Lounge
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