S2 - Episodio 5: Giapponesi e Yakuza

Per supportarci --> Ko-Fi / PayPal / Satispay

Per contattarci --> [e-mail]



Scritto da Erick Simionato e Nicola Valletta

Montaggio e produzione audio di Alessandro Dimatteo

Prodotto da Nicola Valletta



Nicola Valletta - http://bodo.solutions

Erick Simionato - www.instagram.com/ilfujitivo/

Alessandro Dimatteo - https://www.instagram.com/thewolf__music/

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest.

(00:01):
Life comes at you fast, which is why it's important to find some
time to relax a little you time.
Enter Chumba Casino with no download required.
You can jump on anytime, anywhere for the chance to redeem some serious prizes.
So treat yourself with Chumba Casino and play over a hundred
online casino style games all for free.
Go to chumbacasino.com to collect your free welcome bonus.

(00:23):
Sponsored by Chumba Casino.
No purchase necessary.
VGW group.
Void where prohibited by law, 18 plus terms and conditions apply.
Decisions, decisions.
Wait a minute.
Are you still looking for cars on Carvana?
Yeah.
Decisions, decisions.
When I use Carvana, I found the exact car I was looking for in minutes.
Bought it on the spot.

(00:43):
Electric or full diesel.
Decisions.
Come on, you've been at it for weeks.
Just buy it already.
You're right.
Crossover it is.
Decisions decided.
Whether you know exactly what you want or like to take your time, buy your car the
convenient way with Carvana.
Buongiorno a tutti e benvenuti ad un nuovo episodio di l'isola a forma di banana.

(01:07):
L'isola a forma di banana.
Oggi parleremo di una cosa che caratterizza il Giappone, almeno nel nostro immaginario,
ovvero la Yakuza.
Sì, è un argomento, è un argomento che mi è sempre interessato.
In realtà mi ci sono avvicinato da relativamente poco perché sarà un annetto che mi

(01:28):
son messo a cercare di capire da dove arriva, come funziona, cos'è effettivamente questa
Yakuza, che noi semplifichiamo come mafia giapponese.
E invece?
E invece è molto più complica.
Stranamente.
Stranamente.
Sono anche uguale, stavo giusto per dirlo.
È incredibile, ma è molto più complesso di quanto sembrasse.
Siete pronti a un'altra valanga di parole?

(01:50):
Ehi!
Ma sicuramente è un aspetto del Giappone che lo rende molto esotico.
Quindi una cosa difficile da capire, imperscruttabile, che fa parte della loro cultura,
che ha le radici nella loro cultura storica.
E quindi, andiamo, C.E.R.I.C., vai!
Tu come sei venuto a conoscenza della Yakuza?

(02:12):
Cioè, cosa dove l'hai scoperta?
Allora, se penso ai riferimenti culturali che ho più forti, sono sicuramente...
Bastentorio!
Lo sapevo!
Drift!
Drift! Drift!
E la serie di videogame Yakuza.
A cui non ho mai giocato fino a qualche anno fa, ma di cui avevo già sentito parlare,

(02:34):
perché c'era solo per la play, se non sbaglio.
Sì, se non sbaglio, sì.
Ecco, io non ho mai avuto la play, ho sempre giocato sul computer,
quindi pochi anni fa appena sono arrivati gli adattamenti sul computer.
Io ce l'ho, l'ho scaricatalo lì in pausa da, credo, un anno
e non sono ancora riuscito a trovare il tempo per giocarci, ma lo farò.
Merita il videogame.
Torniamo al mondo reale, la Yakuza non merita.

(02:58):
Allora, la cosa strana della Yakuza, che alla fin fine ti fa venir qualche dubbio,
e personalmente mi ha fatto venir voglia di capire come funziona questo mondo,
è il fatto che, tu dici, la mafia giapponese, quindi i cattivi fondamentalmente.
Hanno i tatuaggi, hanno le spade, sparano alla gente, scippano le vecchie,
sparano fiamme dagli occhi, no?

(03:20):
Però c'è una cosa che fa strano della Yakuza, no?
Il fatto che, per esempio, nel 2005, nella zona di Kobe, c'è stato un fortissimo terremoto.
La zona di Kobe, quella della carne?
Esattamente, una zona più o meno vicino a Kyoto o Sakanara.
Diciamo che la regione, la zona geografica, è quella.

(03:42):
C'è stato un fortissimo terremoto.
Parliamo di circa 5.000 morti.
Orto?
Sì, una cosa molto grande e una cicatrice nella storia giapponese.
La cosa curiosa è stato il fatto che i primi aiuti ai cittadini sono arrivati,
non dal governo, perché il governo è arrivato molto dopo, ma dalla Yakuza.

(04:04):
Dalla zona di Osaka, dalla zona di Tokyo ed altre zone del Giappone,
sono arrivati un sacco di aiuti.
Sono arrivati aiuti alimentari, personale, gente che andava a lavorare nelle macerie, eccetera.
Stessa cosa è successa nel 2011.
Cosa è successa in Giappone nel 2011?

(04:27):
Fukushima.
Esattamente.
Stavo per soffocare, Fukushima.
C'è stato Fukushima, c'è stato un forte terremoto, c'è stato il tsunami,
c'è stato il problema strutturale alla centrale nucleare, quindi un sacco di fastidi.
Anche lì sono arrivati, proprio dalla zona di Kobe e da Tokyo,
sono arrivate delle colonne di camion con aiuti alimentari, con cibo, medicine,

(04:55):
tutto mandato dalla Yakuza.
Cosa facevano queste persone?
Arrivavano guidando i camion e dicevano, ciao, sono della Yakuza.
C'è un problema, la gente è in difficoltà, li aiutiamo.
Sì, ok.
E questa cosa...
È già molto strana.
Esatto.
Anche perché così alla luce del sole non è normale.
Voglio dire, per la mafia come la intendiamo noi.

(05:18):
Esatto, non è che uno dice, oh, mi metto a bordo di un camion con tutti i miei tatuaggi,
ciao, sono la mafia, ti regalo del cibo.
È una cosa strana.
E ti fa venire il dubbio, ma quindi, cioè, sono cattivi o non sono cattivi?
La realtà, per fortuna, non è bianco e nero, ma è una scala infinita di grigi.

(05:39):
Adesso cerchiamo di capire come funziona la mafia.
Per capire come funziona la mafia, vogliamo capire ovviamente da dove nasce.
Devo fare un sacco di riferimenti, mi deve sbazzire con questa cosa.
Ti chiedo già scusa, sarà una puntata lunga.
Però cerchiamo appunto di capire soprattutto da cosa derivano queste differenze

(06:02):
con il nostro concetto di mafia.
Esatto.
Sperifichiamo che la nostra non vuole essere una...
Esaltazione.
Esatto.
Della Yakuza ci mancherebbe.
Stiamo cercando di capire culturalmente da dove viene fuori
e soprattutto come si esprime in Giappone.
Assolutamente sì, anche perché ci sono un sacco di persone che vanno per turismo,

(06:24):
vanno in Giappone e giustamente si pongono il problema.
Ci sono dei quartieri che in alcuni video, blog, ecc. ci scrivono
e state attenti perché questo quartiere è sotto il controllo della mafia.
E uno giustamente dice, ok, ma allora magari non ci vado perché ho paura,
perché sono giustamente preoccupato.
Cerchiamo di capire come funziona tutto.

(06:45):
Innanzitutto, Yakuza.
Ma che cazzo...
Cosa vuol dire?
Esattamente. Perché adesso abbiamo usato il termine Yakuza, il termine mafia,
come se fossero sinonimi, ma secondo me, per non confonderci ulteriormente,
continuiamo solo a parlare di Yakuza, perché altrimenti continuiamo a pensare ai picciotti.
Esatto, non parliamo di mafia, parliamo di Yakuza, perché come vedremo poi

(07:07):
sono due cose molto diverse.
Diverse.
Esatto. Allora, il termine Yakuza deriva da un gioco di carte.
Ehm... sì.
Tipo labriscole.
Tipo labriscole, esattamente. Extreme briscola.
C'è un gioco di carte storicamente super famoso in Giappone.
In quanto super famoso, io non me ne ricordo il nome, dovrebbe essere Hanafubu,

(07:32):
o qualcosa del genere, è un gioco basato su delle carte disegnate.
Queste carte, piccola parentesi, chi le faceva una volta?
Una delle aziende più famose per queste carte era la Nintendo.
Ah, grande.
Sì, chiusa parentesi, però prometto che non faccio digressioni.
Anche perché la Nintendo comunque produceva giocattoli prima di cominciare a produrre console.

(07:53):
Esattamente, produceva proprio le carte da gioco.
Comunque, c'era questo gioco di carte, che non ricordo assolutamente come si chiamasse,
il punteggio più basso, il punteggio peggiore era il 20.
E la combinazione peggiore per il punteggio peggiore erano le carte 8, 9 e 3.

(08:14):
In giapponese, 8, 9 e 3 sono hachi, kyu, san.
Hachi, kyu, san.
Non ho ben capito perché ho letto delle cose abbastanza discordanti.
Se fosse una contrazione di queste parole che vengono tagliate e poi rimescolate,
o se fosse un vecchio modo di dire, di pronunciare appunto questi...

(08:36):
Ok, magari una vecchia inflessione dialettale.
Esattamente, dialettale.
Comunque, hachi, kyu, san diventa yakuza.
Yakuza è un modo che la gente aveva per indicare queste persone,
riferendosi a loro come il punteggio più basso, quindi gli scarti, le cose senza valore.

(09:00):
Come gli intoccabili in India, cioè la casta più scarsa, le persone più basse.
Quanto vali? Niente, zero e questo ti fa ancora più strano.
Perché dici, ok, la mafia, tatuaggi di drago, spade fiammeggianti e il nome significa che non vali niente. Cioè, perché?
Intanto, da quanto questo termine viene radicato nella cultura?

(09:26):
Allora, il termine, se non ricordo male, arriva con circa l'VIII secolo.
Però le radici della yakuza sono più antiche. Si parla...
Quindi prima è nato la cultura, chiamiamola così, e poi gli è stato affibbiato il termine.
Diciamo che prima è nato un sistema di aggregazione di persone, che poi è scomparso, si è riformato, si è riorganizzato ed è diventato la yakuza.

(09:58):
Che, adesso vi spiego perché, ma era legale.
Era tanto legale, era tanto conosciuta da avere persino delle investiture da parte dello shogunato.
Lo shogunato non solo riconosceva questo gruppo di persone come un gruppo esistente legale,

(10:19):
ma gli dava dei poteri per controllare e gestire delle attività commerciali dei territori.
Allora, per capire... Ecco, però attenzione. Quindi queste persone che facevano parte di questo gruppo,
chi erano in Giappone, nel Giappone che fu, chi rappresentava, come facevo a definire questa persona,

(10:43):
uno della yakuza intesa come della casta dei più bassi?
Allora, cercherò di farlo sempre... No, in realtà non è complicata, non è più di tanto complicata.
In realtà tutto quello che stiamo per dire adesso non c'è niente di estremamente definito.
Nel senso, io non vi posso dire, nel 1603 è nata la yakuza.

(11:07):
Perché ci sono diverse fonti, diversi riferimenti, c'è chi data alcuni avvenimenti.
In un periodo certi dicono che sono radicati in un altro, è un po' un casino.
Come tantissimi avvenimenti storici, in realtà è difficile dare una data precisa.
Prima di cominciare questo viaggio voglio fare una premessa.

(11:29):
Allora, in passato la società giapponese era suddivisa in caste, più di quanto...
Ok, ok.
Era suddivisa in caste. Le più basse erano formate o da criminali o da persone che avevano a che fare con la morte.
Non intesa come omicidio, ma intesa come persone che trattano la morte o i corpi morti.

(11:55):
Quindi il macellaio, il tombarolo, il conciatore di pelli, un sacco di... come si chiama? Di lavori.
Nelle cultura giapponese, quindi, diciamo che la morte e i cadaveri sono sempre stati considerati una cosa molto impura.
No? E tanto che queste persone, le persone che lavoravano appunto con i caraveri, dovevano purificarsi attraverso l'immersione totale o parziale in acqua, che è diventata poi, tu prima di...

(12:44):
At Chompacasino.com. Test your luck in the shadowy world of the Godfather slot.
Someday, I will call upon you to do a service for me.
Play The Godfather now at Chompacasino.com.
Welcome to the family.
No purchase necessary. VGW Group.
Voidware prohibited by law. 18 plus. Terms and conditions apply.
The Virginia Lottery app is like having sunshine right in your pocket. Scan scratchers, check out new releases, make secure deposits, instantly play lottery games, and more.

(13:12):
Download the Virginia Lottery app today and let the fun shine on.

(13:43):
It's still an extremely...
Dishonorable.
Dishonorable, but also debilitating thing in terms of future, yes.
Because all of Japan is more oriented towards society than towards the individual, no?
So not being part of society means that they take away all the help, all the push you can have to make a career.

(14:05):
Yes, not having a status in Japan is something that cuts your legs.
Exactly.
Let's go back, let's close the parenthesis.
We said that these criminals had a reserved treatment, in fact a special treatment.
In fact they were marked.
Like bovines.
Exactly, exactly.

(14:26):
Let's talk about the second half of 1600.
We're talking about tattoos to criminals in the 1670s.
But here too there are very debilitating references.
We're talking about people who commit a crime.
People who commit a crime, you get a part of the kanji.
Here it's a very regional thing.

(14:48):
I don't remember, I'm not sure if I could say it in a stupid way.
A person who commits a theft, or a crime, a part.
Second crime, third part.
The third part is completed with the kanji, which was usually done on the neck, on the forehead or on the hands of dogs.
So you are marked as a dog.

(15:09):
You are a dog.
You are a dog. You are a member of society.
Nobody wants to have anything to do with you.
They won't give you a job, they won't give you a job.
Enough, let's take it for now.
Pause.
Let's take this thing as it is.
We have death, which is something extremely bad that needs to be purified.

(15:31):
And the criminal who gets tattooed.
And close parenthesis.
Let's take this thing as a premise to understand what we are trying to say.
Now, 1603.
In the previous episodes we talked about the shogunate Tokugawa, which I don't know if you remember, it was that period of...
Of course, of course.

(15:52):
I don't believe you.
But let's repeat it for those who are listening.
Exactly, it's right.
The Tokugawa shogunate began, a period of peace, a period of isolation of Japan, which will last for more than 200 years.
But what happened before this super peace?
It happened that there were...

(16:14):
They were giving each other strong sticks.
They were giving each other... Very good, but even more in the Genghis.
There were... Japan was costumized by civil wars.
And what do civil wars need?
Warriors.
A lot of mercenaries.
Exactly, there were a lot of people whose job was to fight.
What job do you do?
The shampista?
No, I'm a warrior very strong with a hundred swords in my pocket.

(16:38):
To confuse the idea a little bit, we are talking about these are the samurai of the time?
Also, also, also, exactly.
At a certain point, peace arrives.
Peace in a country full of warriors generates unemployment.
Let's try to make a modern metaphor.
If tomorrow America suddenly stopped doing all the wars...

(17:00):
Exactly.
What would happen?
The offices would be full.
Exactly.
Because...
Between military and companies related to the war, weapons and various companies.
So we find a full Japan of people who do not know how to use their capabilities.
Someone goes into politics, someone goes into retirement, they settle through combined marriages, maybe with children of rich people.

(17:28):
But there are also a lot of people who do not know what to do.
And here groups are formed.
These groups of...
Risaïoli?
Yes.
People who do not see the time to work.
Also because they are forced to find a way to survive.
Absolutely yes.
These groups were called the Kabukimono.

(17:50):
They actually had another name that was something Yaku.
Wait a minute.
Hatamoto Yaku.
Hatamoto, the shogunate, let's say.
Yaku means protector.
Why?
Because these were self-definitioned the protectors of the shogunate.
We are the warriors of the shogunate.

(18:11):
In reality it was not true. It was a bunch of people who did not see the time to kick someone's face.
Self-proclaimed yes.
So it was nothing official.
So you have cities with new rich people who, given the period of peace, start to flourish a bit.
The trade, the activities, the stuff.

(18:33):
And a lot of people who bother.
These Kabukimono go to break the balls of the merchants.
I'm going to throw a punch.
And we lost this one too.
They go to break the boxes of the merchants.
And the merchants say, why?
Why do you have to break me?
Let them do their own.
Exactly.
Pick among yourselves.

(18:54):
In fact, you know what?
Since Japan is full of bad people and warriors,
we make our group of brawlers, of Risaioli, who go against the other Risaioli.
They made a league of warriors against the warriors.
So yes, this situation has formed.

(19:17):
And this situation was organized by the merchants themselves.
By the merchants themselves.
They did a sort of private police that was not really a police.
I pay you and I tell you, come out of my shop.
When someone comes to break the boxes, you break all their teeth.
And then you pay.
So they tried to organize more Kabukimono.

(19:39):
Exactly.
So in contrast to these Yaku Hatamoto,
then to the guards and protectors of the Shogunate,
those who were called Yaku Machi were formed.
So the protectors Machi City, the protectors of the city, of the country.
Ok.
They were continuing to solve the problems, creating new groups of protectors,

(20:00):
protectors from protectors from protectors.
Exactly.
Fight fire with fire.
There are people who give punches, we don't want violence.
Violence against violence.
The important thing is that you punch harder.
This thing makes perfect sense.
What can go wrong?
Absolutely nothing.
I think the period of peace has continued quietly.
Exactly.
In fact, there were punches in the gingivis until the 8th century,

(20:24):
when at some point the same Shogunate, Tokugawa,
because then the thing went out of control.
They did what they wanted, delusions of omnipotence, etc.
So Tokugawa said, you know what?
I'm so tired of you that I'm going to hit you on the ground.
And so basically he suppressed both groups.

(20:45):
Ok.
Enough. You broke the balls.
Go away. 100 punches to you, 100 punches to you.
They no longer exist.
Which anyway, sorry, go.
Go, tell me.
Because they were self-proclaimed groups.
So the Shogunate had a certain power,
and at some point he said, you know what?
Enough now.
Exactly.
From here on, stop.
Exactly.
Until it was something local or more or less under control,

(21:07):
I suppose that the Shogunate and Tokugawa did not really do this great pleasure,
but ok.
At some point, in short, several years have passed and that's it.
I said, now stop.
Now stop.
Until the 8th century, so they got into fights and then that's it.
For about 100 years, it was no longer heard of.

(21:31):
No way.
Zero, zero.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Until at some point, two other groups were gradually formed.
A little different at the beginning.
Which were the Tachiyas, who took care of the whole part,
management of trade, etc.

(21:55):
Activities, arts, jobs.
And the Bakuto.
The Bakuto took care of the whole game.
So they still looked for a market.
Exactly.
Or credit.
Exactly.
Unlike the first two groups, which were formed, as we said,

(22:16):
by people who did not see the time to kick everyone's ass,
these were formed by farmers, by people more or less poor.
Let's say the poor.
Ok.
No?
The humble.
Exactly.
The modest.
People who were in their own.
Exactly.
Like the timid.
How do we make these pikes go down in series?

(22:43):
I don't know, but we are very, very good.
So these humble people grouped together.
We said, ok, we are poor, but we are poor together.
And they were created first by alliances, which then became bigger and bigger,
more structured, until they became families with a hierarchy.

(23:05):
At this point we start to hear about two figures that we carry on until today.
The Japanese equivalent of the godfather and the disciple.
I don't know what they call the disciple in the mafia.
The pichotto.
Yes, good, good.
The pichotto.
The affiliate.
No, because then different levels begin.

(23:27):
You take it, it's bad.
Exactly.
Ok, perfect.
So the boss was the oyabun and the bad apprentice, the pichotto, was the kobun, if I remember correctly.
Ok.
Here we start to create a series of relationships that are very important for them to keep alive.

(23:53):
It starts to be the presence of a code that curiosity is maintained in all groups, even in non-allies.
And this genesis of the groups derives from a lack of power.

(24:14):
They are entering, it seems to be voluntary, but their creation happens
because at a certain point they lack the power to control the organization on certain themes, certain areas,
in which they are structuring and organizing, filling this void.
Exactly, they are poor, they have no commercial power, they have no great power within the society,

(24:39):
so they create a sub-society for all of them.
How to have fun, anytime, anywhere. Step 1. Go to chumbacasino.com. Step 2. Collect your welcome bonus.
Come to Papa welcome bonus. Step 3. Play hundreds of casino style games for free.
That's a lot of games, all for free? Step 4. Unleash your excitement.

(25:02):
Chumbacasino has been delivering thrills for over a decade, so claim your free welcome bonus now and live the Chumba life.
Visit chumbacasino.com.
There are research firms, there are consulting firms, and then there's Forester.
Meet today's Forester at Forester.com.

(25:51):
The relationships between the two are maintained by the Yakuza, by the families, even by the rival families.
The Oyabun and Kobun, the boss and the little one, the relationship between the two is always respected by the families.
What does that mean?
It means that if you have a disciple, I don't take him away, even if I'm your catipoy.

(26:17):
I never talked to a Yakuza and I don't think it will happen to me.
I think so. But let's say that on the card they say so. When you don't respect a rule and you're being chased by a clan, you're being put aside, but the rival clans don't take you away.

(26:47):
You're a bad person. Inside the clan you don't want anyone. In the clan you don't want anyone. You don't even want them.
You're the zero of the zero.
How do you get chased by the clan? There were rules. These rules were, for example, not to steal, not to break.

(27:10):
How not to steal?
Ok. It's a bit different.
Ok. Not to steal on the street. Not to practice violence against women. Not to meddle in the business of the Oyabun and Kobun.

(27:32):
Not to spill family secrets. There were these rules. Let's say that the penalty for not respecting these rules went from being excluded from the clans to being sentenced to death,
passing through something that makes the Yakutsu famous. Maybe you know it. The mignon? Exactly. There's a...

(28:02):
The mignon cut. Exactly. A practice is the mignon cut. Why do you cut the mignon? Because...
Of the hand, not the foot. Exactly.
Because, practicing the yobitsume, the mignon cut, we're talking about a society where the weapon is the sword.

(28:23):
Ok. The white weapon. Exactly. You hold the sword with two hands. Without the mignon, you have a lot of difficulty controlling the weapon.
You have a lot of difficulty. The fact of cutting a mignon was usually in the eyes of an aunt. I created a problem for the family.

(28:46):
Or in some way I betrayed the trust. It's not that they cut my mignon. I cut my mignon.
In fact, Lara Kiri is not made of suicide to maintain the honor.
But this thing especially means that I cut my mignon. I'll stay, if I'm allowed, in the family.

(29:08):
There can also be more fingers, actually. Jesus. Yes.
Because I want to stay there, but I need your protection. So my situation now is not to be particularly skilled with the sword.
I can't arrange myself alone. I put myself under your protection. This is the symbolism.

(29:30):
Ok. I prostrate myself and I leave myself to your dependence. Without you I can't exist. I can't obey myself.
So, in quotes, you do whatever you want, but I'm your servant. Exactly.
So we said that a system is created with its rules, with its functions, and it was so functional, so solid, so well done.

(29:57):
And at a certain point? And at a certain point the government recognizes it.
Even so. And here we start to have those things that you don't understand well about the mafia.
The historical period. Yes, sorry. Here we are at the end of 1600.
Ok. Yes, we are at the end of 1600.

(30:18):
So much so that the same Shogun begins to give to the managers of these, let's say, the leaders of these families, of these groups,
begins to give powers of control over the activities.
That is, you, who are part of the family that manages the trade in the area of, I don't know, control, I delegate you the control,

(30:42):
that people don't steal, that people don't break boxes.
And they use them as state police, parastatale, let's call it.
Yes, let's say, more than police, in theory, as a group that breaks the box, in theory, just as you created this society,

(31:03):
they respect you, because you have respect in your country, in your area, of course, perfect, you do it.
You maintain order. You maintain order, because you have respect and therefore you have power, go.
And so you start to create this situation a bit of, ok, yes, you are a subculture, you are a separate society,

(31:25):
but you are recognized, you start to create these things that I don't understand.
Or at least I didn't understand.
At a certain point, at a certain point, however, we talked, first we talked about the boxes, right?
The last ones, basically, were the burakumin, that is, those who had to deal with the dead,

(31:49):
but in reality who then mixed up afterwards, let's say, we generally talk about the last boxes, right?
These here had no chance of entering the society, so they were the last of the last.
At a certain point a secondary society appears that gives the opportunity to everyone, which are a bit the Robin Hood of Japan.

(32:10):
Oh, but you know what?
I almost almost.
Let's try to get it rolling.
Sure.
So much nothing for nothing. At most they tell me no.
They were the only chance for social rescue for them.
Absolutely yes.
If not, not really social, sorry, how personal.
At least I can help something.
Yes, I'm alone, nobody counts me, well, let's try.

(32:32):
And there it started to create something that actually already in a slightly small way undertones, there was also already before,
the fact that these burakumin, these last ones, began to help each other, to help each other create small groups.
However, now they are beginning to integrate a bit in these families

(32:55):
and therefore fundamentally these families begin to work with people who were not exactly used to being in the rules.
Ah, ok.
And therefore it moves us from a situation of legality, peace and love, which then also there must be seen,
to a much more borderline situation, which is something that will characterize the mafia in the years to come.

(33:23):
The Yakuza.
Excuse me, the Yakuza, you're right.
Let's say we do it a little fast.
The Meiji restoration arrives, so we are generally in the middle of the 1800s, more or less.
Japan begins to slowly modernize itself.

(33:44):
What does the Yakuza do?
It begins to modernize itself too.
So we begin to work in the

(34:19):
or maybe the head of the police was part of your group of friends.
So these things were not something you can't do, but...
They were busy at that time with all the things outside of Japanese society, which is very rigid and very complex and therefore difficult to penetrate.
And they instead made the facilitators for all those who wanted to arrive in Japan and appear,

(34:44):
without worrying too much about entering, understanding, seeing, etc.
Let's say that entering Japan is more or less about small groups that came from China, Manchuria, Korea or from these nearby countries.
But they were all people who otherwise could not have entered the mechanism of Japan and the Japanese.

(35:10):
I don't know if they couldn't have entered, certainly not so easily.
Yes, yes, yes, okay, obviously.
Because as we talked about in the last episode, the one about racism, the difficulty of the Japanese to accept the foreigner is above all in the fact that the foreigner most of the time does not want to learn everything about Japanese culture before entering.

(35:32):
Exactly, exactly.
And consequently, all the people who come from outside, maybe looking for a second opportunity in another state, if they do not have this propensity to be part of Japanese society in everything, they find in the Yakuza an open door to survive.
Yes, also because if the one who brings the foreigner home is one of those you trust, you say, well, okay, I mean, I trust you, you tell me that these people are okay, so I'm okay.

(36:00):
I trust Kyo.
And so they were, as you say, facilitators, right?
And then things get a lot more complicated, so much so that I don't want to get too involved in this period because it's extremely complex, right?
It is interesting, let's say, it is interesting to understand how it was born.
Of course.
Now things are getting complicated because the Yakuza begins to enter the political discourse a little, there are many, many, many contacts with the ultra-nationalist Japanese right-wing, there are deals with the whole expansion discourse, expansion attempts in Korea, with the Japanese who go to their war skifests in China.

(36:45):
Things are getting a lot, a lot more complex, which actually lead to the mafia of now, so the Yakuza.
The Yakuza.

(37:24):
The Yakuza of now.
So families, families that are more or less in war with each other, yes, but who have a moral code, who have a moral code that for many of them is an infinite source of pride.

(38:00):
Sure.
Which is precisely this moral code, obviously, depends on the areas, depending on the families and everything, but in the maximum line does not include, for example, the use of drugs, the drug space, does not include going to break the boxes to tourists, does not include going to ask the...

(38:21):
... about, should not expect to go to ask the Pizzo to the companies, which in reality then in the years has happened, but even there is a very complicated situation that would be analyzed.
There is case by case, I think that anyway, it seems that we are not here to glorify or do any other type of analysis in the merit of judgment compared to the Yakuza, but precisely I imagine that over time this has evolved, transformed and has had infinite shades.

(38:55):
Absolutely yes.
From the dirty white to the slightly
black, I mean, because precisely as you say now compared to drugs, you are sure and convinced that even in the current and modern period none of the Yakuza makes more use of drugs or has to do with drug trafficking.

(39:16):
In reality, as you say, precisely having to simplify the whole speech for half an hour, three quarters of an hour of podcast, everything we are simplifying is at the same time true and the opposite.
So everything would be very much contextualized, in-depth analyzed, which obviously we will not do in this context.
One of the most severe things that has characterized the Yakuza in recent years is precisely the fact of not treating the drug space, however, as you say, it is not true.

(39:48):
Why? Because in recent years, let's say from the 60s onwards, the Yakuza has had an infinite decline.
Why? Because the police is giving it war.
Ah yes?
Yes, yes, but it is succeeding, it is succeeding, it confiscates goods, continuous super restrictive laws, because I repeat, the Yakuza exists.

(40:12):
There are even, looking at the various documentaries, various reports, various things, there are even the chairs that have the logo, the stamp, the name of the families.
Ah ok, it is a thing of the light of the sun.
Yes, yes, we are here.
Or they hide, because they must not hide.
No, because the Yakuza is not something that I go to explode people, I go to explode politicians, or at least it should not.

(40:44):
They have their borderline activities, but borderline activities are actually part of Japanese culture, just look at the prostitution discourse.
Is prostitution legal in Japan?
Ah no, absolutely not, but sorry, but all those massage centers, yes they are massage centers.
And the girls who, well the girls do the massages, then in their free time they do what they want, they are those situations of shit, no?

(41:12):
Clear, where you know what is happening, but you turn around and close your eyes.
The fact that the police have given war to the Yakuza, from the 60s to today to give you numbers, we have passed from about 184,000 members of the various families to the current 30-35,000.

(41:34):
Less than a fifth.
Yes, few, few, and they continue to go down, they continue to decrease.
The problem is the fact that the police make it very difficult to manage activities like nightclubs for the Yakuza, and you will tell me why a problem?
Indeed.

(41:55):
It seems a positive thing.
Yes, but families want to live.
And in an interview that I saw a few months ago, one of the great bosses, I don't remember if it was the Yamaguchigumi family, which is one of the biggest families in the Tokyo area, if I remember correctly,
he said that our new future bosses are mixing with things that go against our moral code, referring to drugs, because then there was a big drug problem after the end of the Second World War and the arrival of the Americans, let's take it like that, because if we go deeper into that...

(42:34):
They can imagine the motivations and the causes, but in short...
But at the moment, this guy said, at the moment when the police make it very difficult for me to manage a nightclub, even without prostitution, a nightclub.
I like it even without prostitution.

(42:55):
Yes, because then they say no, but in short, when the person comes to you, hey, hello, do you want a massage?
Maybe he's not selling you a massage, let's say it, but I was saying, when the police make it very difficult for you to manage a simple nightclub, but it makes it very easy for you to break drugs.
Ah, of course.
You understand that the new guys, the bosses, the ones who will be the bosses of the future...

(43:19):
Where they go, where they get the money out.
Exactly, exactly.
And so this person made it clear that it was a problem, because the old values ​​are being seen less.
So, has the Yakuza treated drugs?
So far, no.
Now, we'll see.
Exactly, exactly.

(43:40):
How did they evolve in such a few aspects, such as the financial aspect, when finance entered, after the Meiji restoration in the constructions, which was something they didn't do before.
In the nightclubs, in short, they are all things, in my opinion, that did not start immediately with the Yakuza doing that.

(44:03):
Slowly, they had to evolve, transform, change, based on what the Japanese society had evolved.
As a result, unfortunately, obviously, the discourse of drugs is at a standstill with the times. Where they can exercise their influence, always at the margins of the Japanese society, is in the drug space.

(44:27):
Exactly.
They are not here to justify them, of course, but it is to try to interpret the reason why the new generations are going in that direction.
It is clear that compared to Japan, compared to any other country in the world, in Japan the presence of drugs is extremely low.
Extremely low. Even light drugs, etc. are stigmatized.

(44:54):
They don't smoke the dogs on the street?
No, no. I know some guys that I met in Japan, or anyway, born in Japan, always lived in Japan, I believe that no one has ever smoked anything.
I mean, no one has ever tried any kind of drugs, not even light drugs. Which is right. Friends from home, drugs hurt.

(45:20):
But for us it is not a common thing.
No, exactly.
It is the exact opposite.
The real mistake is to say no.
What a misery. These were the 2000s.
I don't know if I am too young to remember them.
Anyway, this is the Yakuza. The tattooing thing, which is the Yakuza's signature, comes from the fact that in this society these burakumis have arrived, these people with tattoos.

(45:47):
If I have to have a tattoo, if I have to be marked in life, at least let's do it cool.
And so people started to create these tattoos, more and more colorful, more and more visible.
Because, ok, I am marked, but I am part of a cool family, of a beautiful thing that I like, that makes me feel strong.
No, beautiful, obviously from their point of view.

(46:10):
And so let's show this thing. And gradually the degenerate thing, until it becomes the Irezumi tattoo, which is the one with the dragons, the carpets, with all their symbols, the heads.
On the whole back, on the whole body.
Yes, absolutely. There is a type of tattoo that I do not remember what it's called, which was born not by the burakumis, but by the groups of firefighters.

(46:36):
In Japanese, every time they surprise us with something incredible.
The firefighters, why the firefighters?
Because even the firefighters were mostly formed by these saiyans, by these ex-warriors, without occupation.
Attention, probably because the firefighters, everything was made of wood in Japan, consequently they were fundamental in a large number.

(46:59):
And above all it was a job, I think, not exactly easy, easy and safe.
No, exactly, you had to be quite tough to go and put out the fire, maybe of a pagoda, ten meters high, of a sanctuary, a temple complex, with a bucket of water.
Yes, yes, yes, exactly.
So anyway...
Not with the water pump, from kilometers away.

(47:21):
A person used to selling collars, maybe it's not really a propensity to do such a thing, a person used to seeing arrows flying on and cutting off arms, maybe a fire leaves them a little more indifferent.
Yes, yes, he prefers to risk his life in a fire.
Exactly, and from these, precisely from these groups of firefighters, the classic yakuza tattoos were born, those with jacket.

(47:43):
No? Tattoos that cover the back, the shoulders, I don't know if you've ever seen the sleeve with the front, which the front is open, as if it were a belly.
I don't think so.
Yes, yes, yes, that type of tattoo has a name that I absolutely don't remember, but...
And it comes from the Japanese firefighters groups.
Exactly, exactly.
Ah, and now it seems to me that the E-Train fur vest came to mind, which was one of the E-Train, indeed, to use the correct English, which was a wrestler, so I let this terrifying image go.

(48:16):
Anyway, I really couldn't imagine that they could come not so much from the yakuza, but from the firefighters.
Yes, then the yakuza obviously took... They did this thing, this culture. Yes, yes, yes, and they emphasized it, so much so that for them it became just a typical and unremitting thing.
From there, the whole discourse of terms and other things that we will not go to face now.

(48:40):
But now...
The Buddha looked at me badly.
So, today was also a pleasure, thank you very much for listening, we will hear you again in the next episode, so for today, bye!
Bye!

(49:25):
We release new games every week, so spice things up with chumbacasino.com now for your chance to redeem some serious prizes.
Sponsored by Chumba Casino. No purchase necessary. VGW Group. Void where prohibited by law. 18 plus. Terms and conditions apply.
The Virginia Lottery app is like having sunshine right in your pocket. Scan scratchers, check out new releases, make secure deposits, instantly play lottery games, and more.

(49:50):
Download the Virginia Lottery app today and let the fun shine on.