"THE MUSIC BOX" recap!

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 3 (02:31):
Hello, Hello, Hello, bonnet heads, How are you. I'm Pamela Bob.
I'm your host creator of living on a prairie, And yes,
I'm here as always as our beloved prairie bitch or beach,
whichever one you are more comfortable saying. That's right, Miss
Alison Arngrim is here with us today as always, and
also as always our hashtag imaginary boyfriend.

Speaker 5 (02:54):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (02:54):
It's Dean Butler.

Speaker 5 (02:56):
Hi you guys, how are you?

Speaker 3 (02:59):
I'm good. I'm It's a little bit of a warm
day today, I mean warm and freezing cold. I decided
let's let's hurry up spring already.

Speaker 6 (03:11):
But I'm good.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
Allison. You're in friends.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
In France and it's cold, and is it rain Oh,
it's not raining. It's been a bit rainy and it's
quite chilly. It's not terrible, but at night looked off
and I've been traveling out into the middle of nowhere
sometimes in the mountains.

Speaker 5 (03:29):
And it's like, oh, it's not so bad.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Oh it's thirty degrees whoa wow, Okay, So yeah, i've been.

Speaker 5 (03:34):
I've been.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
I've been sweater weathering it here so weather, Yeah, nice
indoors and warm and toasty.

Speaker 6 (03:40):
And it's certainly been that way in southern California too.
It was forty I took the pop out for a
walk this morning for southern California chili. It was like
forty six degrees this morning, which is sure sleeve weather
in New York it.

Speaker 3 (03:55):
Is, I mean really it hit forty something like forty
five degrees for the first time left last week. It
was yeah, and it was like people were out in shorts,
like people were out skipping, and it was like there
was the birds were even chirping. It was like, this
is so classic New York City, like because winter is
so hard here that the second it goes above forty degrees, you're.

Speaker 6 (04:19):
Like, uh, yes, yeah, I mean I remember from my
years years ago living and working in New York that
first pop of green in the spring.

Speaker 3 (04:32):
It's like a miracle.

Speaker 6 (04:33):
Is just incredible.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
It's like a miracle, Yes, God is real. It happens
in New York City around mid April.

Speaker 6 (04:43):
So you've got, yeah, you've got another month to go.

Speaker 3 (04:46):
Well, March is such a tease because you're like, yes,
it's March, we're here, and it's not. It's just such
it's a it's a it's a tease. But we are
going to get a nice week this week.

Speaker 6 (04:55):
So so Allison's let's live it up. Alson's in the
in the cold.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
Rain, bold bird.

Speaker 3 (05:03):
I told you last year in April, you know, we
went to visit Hell's family in England. They're in Derbyshire,
They're northern England, and uh, it was just finally warm
in New York City, like spring had finally sprung. We
finally put our winter coats away, like it was glorious.
And then we went out there and it was thirty
degrees and gray and raining the entire time. And I

(05:25):
was so mad at the entire time.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
We were.

Speaker 3 (05:30):
I was angry. I was angry. I was not fun
that week. Okay, anyway, and does anyone have I have
in my notes here, Dean, that you have something fun
to announce, something fun to.

Speaker 6 (05:44):
Announce off coming on the heels of my writing debut
with Prairie Man, My Little House Life and Beyond. Yeah,
the publishers bought a second book from me. No, Dean,
So the publishers bought a second book. And I this

(06:05):
last weekend or actually by the time this drops, like
two weeks ago, I sat down for the first time
at five in the morning. That's my ritual, five in
the morning, cracked the file. Have my outline on the
table and started, just started that process.

Speaker 3 (06:27):
What's the second going to be?

Speaker 6 (06:28):
You know what the working Well, it's more than the
working title. There's a part of me that's a little
concerned about, you know, using the title now just because
don't say it.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
Don't say it, just like snag it and suddenly.

Speaker 3 (06:45):
Yeah, yeah, don't say it, don't say it.

Speaker 6 (06:48):
Yeah. But I think it's not so much a memoir
as an examination of well, we're going to be talking
about things in the context of it's a values based project,
looking at it through the lens of little House, which
is why these conversations are that we're having are so important,

(07:10):
and comparing the lens of little House to the world
we're living in today. Yeah, I think it's going to be.
I think it's going to be a really interesting journey
to write this, and I think it's it's going to
be fun. And I my first draft is due in

(07:33):
early September, and so September of twenty six out on
the shelf in time for the holidays.

Speaker 5 (07:40):
Geez, that's quick.

Speaker 3 (07:44):
Yeah, that's really fast. So have you started?

Speaker 6 (07:47):
I mean, I have pages, I've definitely it started. But
it's very Look, it's literally you know, I'm two pages
into the eighty five thousands that have got to be
in the final drive.

Speaker 3 (08:01):
But did you know what the content? Did they pitch
this concept?

Speaker 6 (08:06):
Did you know to them? I pitched to them about
two months after Prairie Man came out. Oh, and I
just I anecdotally pitched it. I just said, this is
what I'm thinking. I mean, if you're interested, this is
what I'm thinking. And I laid it out for them
and they said sorry. As I banged my music stand,

(08:26):
they said, my editor said, that's a really cool idea.
I love the idea of that. Write it up and
send it to us in December, as we once we've
had a chance for six months to see what your
book is doing. Yeah, send it to us in December,
which I did, and they got back right away as

(08:48):
they did the first time, and said, yeah, we can
let's talk about this. And so.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
This is huge, This is huge.

Speaker 3 (08:57):
Congratulations. You're going to be a busy.

Speaker 6 (09:00):
Oh oh, it's going to be a very busy six months. Yeah,
it's going to be. I think you know, Catherine has
been Catherine has been uh where years is consistently hard
focused as I've been in the last you know, starting

(09:21):
with the Farity experience in twenty eleven. It's been pretty
full on, constant, something's going on. And I'm so grateful
at sixty eight that I am. You know, I'm not
anywhere near ready to shut this thing down, you know,
just don't have no interest in that. I want to

(09:42):
keep going. So I'm excited by this opportunity to express
myself again. And I'm so grateful for the way people
have embraced the first round of this, this first piece
of this journey and Alison Melissa writing the forward for it,
and you know, all of that has been really really great.
You know, more to come. It's going to be fun, really,

(10:03):
it's going to be fun.

Speaker 5 (10:04):
You are you are an inspiration.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
You are an inspiring I'm like, oh, I got to
get back to man's writing the second book. I'm putting
put to shame here.

Speaker 6 (10:11):
I know.

Speaker 3 (10:11):
I was going to say about a second book for you, Allison.

Speaker 6 (10:15):
You could, oh my god, you could could write a
book if you decide, if you just make the decision,
you would deliver an amazing second book. What your first
book has been selling like hotcakes? It's yeah, your book
read for fourteen years.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
Yeah, well, I mean that's the thing is like, well
we had we knew, you know, fiftieth anniversary, he's given big,
So we worked ourselves into a flapper, you know.

Speaker 5 (10:43):
And then I said, what think things the idiot things.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
If I slowed down, you know next year, ha ha ha.
Here I am in France. Things have not slowed down.
A ten city stand up tour and we're doing all
this and now you're going to school cities this year.
This whole thing of doing more events, yeah, it's we're
just going to keep doing this.

Speaker 6 (11:03):
We are very bullish on where all this is going, Pamela.
I mean I think you know, obviously Allison is doing
globally traveling and doing what she's doing. We have the
possibility of doing some international events with Prairie Legacy Productions.
We're just going to stay busy. We are all going

(11:24):
to stay busy with this because I think there's an
appetite for it, and yeah, we're going to test that appetite.

Speaker 3 (11:30):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just the beginning. This is
to this episode that we're going to talk about, right
all right, uh okay, well first let me just say
that from the UBI, from the studios, let's get this right,
dear God, I'm so excited about the book. I can't
even thanks from me too. Oh, you guys, this is

(11:56):
going to be a doozy. I don't know. This might
be like a three hour conversation today anyway. From the
studios of VNO in Burbank, California. This is a Little
House on the Prairie. Fiftieth Anniversary Podcast, Season two recap.
Get ready for this one? E? All right, we are

(12:33):
back Dean. Do us the great honor of telling us
what episode we are recapping today? I know, got to
take a deep breath before this one.

Speaker 6 (12:45):
So today we are talking about episode nineteen of season three,
the music.

Speaker 3 (12:56):
Box Bump Up Bump, Yes, mirrored.

Speaker 6 (13:00):
On March fourteenth. Wow, I mean it's like, just told
me so nineteen seven. Oh and here I didn't was
seventy seven? Seventy seven?

Speaker 3 (13:08):
Yeah, it must have been seventy seven.

Speaker 5 (13:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (13:10):
This amazing episode was written by Robert Jones, directed by
Michael Landon, featuring a wonderfully affecting performance by Katie Kurtzman,
who Allison's going to talk about.

Speaker 3 (13:24):
Good.

Speaker 6 (13:24):
We wanted to get Katie to come here, we just
couldn't get her today. And this is absolutely absolutely one
of Allison's most despicable turns peak evil. I mean, it's
just it is all in the charts, off the charts, cruel.

Speaker 3 (13:47):
It's this is the one that you even said you
hated yourself in this episode, right.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
I refer to this as the episode where even I
hate yeah, because it's that bad, and I think, yeah,
third season. I always said third season was when things
start to happen. I feel like I might I really
hit my stride in season three. Please but as you do,

(14:19):
Crazy Nelly forms a club, amongs herself as it's snobby, judgmental,
abjectly cruel president, but of course I am president. The
centerpiece of the episode is a beautiful music box. Laura
was disappointed by the Webster's Dictionary she's given for her birthday,
succumbs the temptation, takes it well more than that, because

(14:39):
she came to the meeting and I'm so heinous at
the meeting and mean to her friend that she says,
to hell with this, and I don't care about the
music box.

Speaker 5 (14:48):
He's like, screwed us.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
It takes a music box because I'm horrible. That's why
she takes it. Because I am evil.

Speaker 5 (14:53):
Okay, but the.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
Guilt of her actions weighs so heavily on her leads
to a series of events and wonderfully over the top nightmares.
I sell dream sequences and so has more dream sequences.

Speaker 3 (15:06):
I want to hear all about it.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
Honesty, forgiveness, and the importance of stone to get for
what is right.

Speaker 3 (15:11):
Yes, yes, okay, there's there's just so much to say
about this episode. I just also want to say my daughter,
my six year ol daughter, Margot, has seen this episode before,
but when I was recapping it, she was also watching it.
And I will say when she takes when Laura takes
her music box, Margot, Margot just went, I would do

(15:34):
the same thing. And I went, health, yeah you would,
I would too. She deserved it. Great parenting on that.
It's like, yeah, you steal that mail box, I mean
mail music box. Anyway, where do we even begin? Where

(15:55):
do we start with this episode?

Speaker 1 (15:56):
Where? Well, I mean, the thing is this also hats
which I hardly says. We talked about the bullying. We
just you know, we're talking about the lovely poor. This
is about tormenting people with physical disability. That was a
thing that Nelly did. I mean, there was poor Olga

(16:16):
I'm sure. Especially right, Laura has a new friend Anna,
who stutters as a stammer, and I do things to
this girl that are just people should go to jail,
and it's it's that bad, and it's like legal like
the family nowadays, the family would like to be lawsuits

(16:37):
because the extremity of the bullying level we're talking. And
here's why this is so so This poor girl, Kitty Kurtzman,
a brilliant actress who just actually stuttered and.

Speaker 3 (16:48):
Real like, I mean, she was so good in this episode.
She was stupid good and might I add my favorite
friend of Laura in the whole thing that Laura's ever had,
and also.

Speaker 5 (17:04):
Brilliant actress.

Speaker 1 (17:05):
I mean, so to the point, this is one of
those ones where people call it, does she really stuttered?
The girl really stuttered, and it's like, no, she's Katie Kurtzman.

Speaker 5 (17:10):
She was on a hotel and.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
She was that good, and I you know, it's famously
I tell her there's a password to the club. Okay,
I mean I start initially I don't want to. I say,
she can't play with us, she can't be in the club.
Because a horse can walk in, a butterfly can flutter
but Anna can't talk.

Speaker 6 (17:33):
All she can do is what a horrible thing there?
And dropped on you like wow.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
Nells is like what are you doing? Nells is like,
we're not having this. So then I'm former club and
I say, oh, she can be in the club, and
Laura's like oh, because poor Laura keeps hoping some change,
And of course it is only an opportunity to drag
the girl and of a whole room full of her
schoolmates and torment her by saying, you mean the club,
but I have a password.

Speaker 6 (18:05):
Now.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
A password is one or two words. A password is
like you know what about it? The password is a word.
The password I announced is Peter Piper picked a peck
of pickled peppers. You evil a freaking password. That's just
stick And I make this. Girls say this and bad

(18:26):
enough that she's gonna pay Peter, and Laura's doing the
right thing. The music is swelling and Laura's going, you
can do it, and it just's She says, take your time,
talk slowly, it's okay, and I say, I can't hear
you say it faster. I can't even get my kne
So it's that fat. And this is the scene that's
just like stomach cheering.

Speaker 3 (18:49):
And meanwhile, they were you while you were doing it,
You're you were like.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
Why doesn't I say when you watch it, people look,
it's horrible. And Katie Kurtzman again, because Katy Kurtsman is brilliant,
she's not like the tears, this water pouring down her
face and she is shaking and sopping and looking like
having a physical body reaction and going pale and turning
red in the face and pit your piper and I'm screaming.

Speaker 5 (19:15):
At her in her face.

Speaker 1 (19:16):
If all the other kids, it's so cruel, and they're
some of them are afraid. They're not even like it's
not even like they're joining in the bullying.

Speaker 5 (19:24):
They're horrified.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
But they're now afraid of me because I'm that crazy. Yeah,
because what will I do to them? Because I clearly
lost it.

Speaker 5 (19:34):
What's killing me is not only while I'm doing this.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
Went wow, this is this is bad. This is really bad.
And so oh but like I said, this is the
year I hit my strength. This was the year of
running in the race and all the going down.

Speaker 3 (19:46):
Yeah, this was a peak year.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
You're right, this is when Nelly went from she's kind
of bitch and annoying to Oh my god, she is
a psychotic person because he's like physically dangerous possibly, And
I just started doing like insane things like actually danger
to people. It's like wow, so this is part of that.
And so I'm doing this and of course you know, yeah,
I'm like, this is my gig. I come in and

(20:08):
do the worst thing that a person could possibly do.
This is my job. What is the worst thing I
can do right now?

Speaker 3 (20:13):
This?

Speaker 1 (20:14):
So it's that's the deal.

Speaker 5 (20:15):
And I always Oh, the mouse is here.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
I see the mouse.

Speaker 5 (20:20):
No, I didn't see the a mouse. I saw the mouth.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yes, yes, because.

Speaker 3 (20:33):
But I mean the mouse just walked you.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
See about this bit right across from it's under the
coffee table.

Speaker 3 (20:39):
Oh, it's clearly not afraid of humans.

Speaker 5 (20:42):
I'm not afraid of my a, Darley. It's a pet mouse.
It's a pet mouse. It's not a wild mouse, has
no diseases. A pet mouse cutest could be get.

Speaker 6 (20:49):
So he knows that there's coming out anyway.

Speaker 5 (20:54):
So I'm terrising this girl.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
And I would when you know, I had to go
with my lines as a young girl, I would go
hm hmm, what you know, as you would say an
intention or a line reading you don't if I do
it this way, that's pretty bad. This way, well, if
I tried that way, and when I got to the
one that was like fingernails on a blackboard and made
me want to punch myself in the face, that's the

(21:16):
one I went, I would go, oh, that's terrible checked
And well.

Speaker 6 (21:22):
I was going to say, what's so interesting about one
of the things that's interesting about this performance? Because you
have you as horrendously cruel as you were in this,
and you really were, and he played wonderfully cruel in this.

Speaker 5 (21:41):
Somehow you really rarely.

Speaker 6 (21:46):
There's something because I think back, look, I think back
to the first episode. I think back to the very
first episode of The Host of Friends, Leam O'Neill, who
was so cruel to Paw taking his oxen. This was
so cruel, he was unredeemable. I have no idea if
there was a plan to ever have this character back,
but there was no way you could ever have him

(22:08):
back because he was so terrible to Charles Ingalls. You
have been cruel to people, so lists of people you've
been cruel to as this character, and you still keep
coming back. And I think that's that is a. I think, Alison,

(22:30):
I think it's really a tribute to the fact or
a tribute to your ability to play horrendous cruelty and
still somehow people see the joke.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
There was also there was a sort of I think,
I think and maybe this came out of the performance,
and maybe this is why people doug it that Nelly
is I mean, she is lashing out anyone who is
this awful and usually is that something terrible has happened
to unhappy about something. And I think this came out that, like,
this girl has issues that I was I'll tell you

(23:08):
and here's the secret issue, which was talking about a
backstor so I'm standing why on my stomach was starting
to go. When I was a little girl, actually a
little girl at Gardener Elementary School.

Speaker 5 (23:22):
I had a speech impediment.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
I had to go to a speech class after school
with the people who stuttered and stammered that that's my friends.

Speaker 6 (23:35):
What was your? What was your? What was your?

Speaker 1 (23:38):
It was adorable.

Speaker 5 (23:39):
I was apparently I was Cindy Brady.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
I could not say the letter F. I could not
say the letter F to save my life. My name
was Alan. I said it was cute.

Speaker 5 (23:51):
It was really cute, little, tiny, tiny girl.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
I thought that my parents were and the school was like,
and we have a program for that, and so after
school a couple days week is very nice older lady,
And I swear this is not a joke. The other
girl who went with me at my time period, she
was so cool. I really liked her, and I swear
to God, for the first couple of weeks I thought

(24:15):
her name was Wanda. I'm not kidding.

Speaker 5 (24:19):
Yes, her name was Rhonda. She could not say the
letter are.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
I'm sure she says my name? She probably she says like, yeah,
if I got class with a girl then Alan and
so Alan and Wanda were in class together until we
discovered WEEKIDS day Alison and Ronda, which happened fairly quickly.
We were very good at this. The woman worked with us,
and it was really dumb. It was like she said, wait,
where the heck are you putting your tongue on your
teeth to do that? And going She's like, no, it

(24:45):
goes down here, and I went, wait, what the oh
it's down here, Yes, it's down there, Like why didn't
anyone tell me these things? And I was fixed and
I can clearly say the letter I can say she
sells shells, I can, and then I can say the
the the th h here says here. I now can
do that, but I could not as a child. I

(25:07):
had a speech impediment. And so I was with you
people who could not say certain words or letters, and
who's stuttered and who stammered. That's who I was sitting with.
So I'm really not going to be tormenting a stuttering
girl and make cares of you.

Speaker 5 (25:20):
But that's not going to happen, right, So this girl sobbing.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
About not being able to say Peter Piper picked pick,
and I'm mocking Cardinal that. I'm going, yeah, this is
not pleasant, this is this is pordinarily unpleasant.

Speaker 6 (25:33):
Yes, well what what what was interesting is that what
we see in the episode. I mean, I think there
are a couple of things that are what we see
in the episode is that when Anna is with Laura,
she speaks just fine, She's able.

Speaker 3 (25:49):
To she's calm, he's calm, she feels.

Speaker 6 (25:52):
Safe, she feels excessed. It's when what we see with
so many situations like that, when someone feels like they're
being judged or under pressure or some suddenly something happens
and I think there's so many people who can relate
to that.

Speaker 3 (26:09):
Do you know that.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
Many stutterers don't stutter when they sing? Oh yes, Mel Tillis,
smell Tillis.

Speaker 3 (26:19):
And James Earl Jones had a horrific stutter growing up,
and it was with the acting he would be able
to do Shakespeare and not stutter at all.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
Many people went to the theater because the theater training
helped them overcome a stammer or stutter. Many stutterers take
up singing because for some reason it's a different part
of the brain. They don't stutter when they sing. Also,
people who were left handed as children, and back in
the old days when the used to force people to
write with the right hand. If you're left hand, it
apparently you can develop a stammer stutter from being.

Speaker 5 (26:46):
Forced right with wrong.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
Oh wow, brain synapses, things wired. So it's a.

Speaker 6 (26:55):
The king's speech, yes, brilliant. But when he puts on
the headphones and he's able to recite the Shakespeare and
there's no there's no affectation at all. He just says
it perfectly, and it was it was an emotional thing
for him. It was not an ability to speak. It

(27:16):
was an emotional.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
It's anxiety and emotions and like I said, literally wiring
because they back in the day kids if they're from
mate where they would start to stand unbelievable. So I
knew a lot of this stuff. You are still horrible
to her and I'm still tormenting this girl, but that's
what I was doing.

Speaker 5 (27:35):
Who this is?

Speaker 1 (27:36):
This is very unpleasant because people did this to me.
Oh my god, So I'm going to creeped out. I'm
creeping myself out. Which is why I knew I was
doing it right. See, that was when I practiced at home.
I went, how can I do this that would have
reduced me to tears when I was a child. How
can I do this so horribly that I am offended?

(27:56):
And I went there, So that's how I did it.

Speaker 6 (27:59):
I think it was a cold blooded smile. It's the
smile that there's just it's like it's a haunting smile. Okay,
knowing that you're going to anything you ask of her
is going to ruin her. And there is this sadistic
pleasure in that that we see in you that's really astonishing.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
And it's you know, this whole episode gets about say this,
because then it gets more sadistic. And someone in the
New York Times actually wrote an article some years ago
that that Laura and Nellie that was bordering on a
sadomasochistic relationship in this episode, because it's that Bart.

Speaker 3 (28:41):
So this is the first time where I watched this.
I mean, I've seen this episode a million times. But
as I was watching this episode, it occurred to me
because I just listened to a podcast last this week
about psychopaths and and this this this podcast Injury, was
in interview a psychopath. Now, some people think that psychopaths

(29:04):
are all murders and Jeffrey Dahmer and all, you know,
they're not. They could be your neighbor, they could be
your friend, they could be your whatever. So and then
I was like, oh my god, she is, without a doubt,
one hundred percent a psychopath. So and then I wanted
to google. Right, Okay, so here we go. There's sociopaths

(29:24):
and psycho and psychopaths. So socio, I have it all
written down. Here we go. This really inspired me, and
I was like, that's it. I figured out Nelly. I
figured out Nelly. Sociopaths and psychopaths both displayed challenging behaviors.
But differ significantly. Sociopaths tend to be impulsive and struggle
to form stable relationships due to their volatile nature, while psychopaths,

(29:49):
known for their manipulative tendencies mm hmm, pose dangers due
to a profound lack of empathy and remorse. Yes, both
both are under the anti social personality disorder. So you are,
although you have Nellie has sociopath traits, she is hands

(30:12):
down a psychopath. And the interesting thing, I mean, I
would think so. And then also in this interview, this girl,
I mean, she was like a twenty year old girl
who is a clinically diagnosed sociopath. But she was talking
about how you can have one special like unicorn person
in your life that you actually do care for, that

(30:35):
you actually do have empathy for. And I was like, Percival,
that's it, Like that was the person, right, Because I
was like I was watching this going, man oh man,
with the horrific parenting that this girl is getting, the
horrible lessons that she is learning, the total sociopathic, psychopathic tendencies,

(30:56):
the anti social personality disorder, all of those traits like
finding your husband ain't gonna cure all of those things.
But if it's the one person they that you do
feel empathy for it that I can buy into. But
it really does explain so much of who Nelly is.
I mean, she's she's a psychopath.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
Right, dumping eggs over so much. However, Percival's reaction because
he set a boundary, because he didn't most people did
one of two things. They went along with Nelly's crap
and like her parents, because they had to, or they
just ran away. Perceval didn't run away, and he said, no,
you're not doing this, this is ridiculous.

Speaker 5 (31:39):
Dun't the eggs ahead? Knock it off.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
But then he said, and as pretty as you are,
you don't need to rest to catch a man. And
this too fried her wiring that someone put his foot
down and had a boundary. And yet so yeah, absolutely
there was a psychopathic streak. And then she turned some
more because she's she's not done, she's torn out the throw.
But now Laura, who is so destroyed watching this, seeing

(32:03):
her friend destroyed, so destroyed that she feels helpless, she
wasn't able to totally powerless. She couldn't stop Nellie from
doing this, and she's been protecting this girl, and she
could protect her. Nellie's just done this in FRNSI, so
it's just like a nightmare.

Speaker 6 (32:14):
Well yeah, and what leads to that, of course, is
the stealing of the music box, which is triggered by
this little early thing where Pad gives her a dictionary webs.

Speaker 3 (32:28):
Right, so let's take it back to the beginning. Right,
let's take it back to the beginning. So it's Laura's birthday,
which have we ever celebrated her birthday?

Speaker 2 (32:36):
Ever?

Speaker 3 (32:36):
Again, I don't know. It's Laura's birthday. Also, it's perpetual
summer on this show, so who knows what month it
actually is?

Speaker 6 (32:42):
And the show premiered in November, but we're not really ever.

Speaker 3 (32:48):
No, No, it's perpetual summer spring.

Speaker 5 (32:51):
In the moment, you.

Speaker 3 (32:53):
Get uh, and she gets the gift that all children
want addiction, I mean fail right, I mean, I know
it's the eighteen hundreds. I know the dictionary was like
equivalent to getting the Internet at that point, I get it.
I get it. But Ma and Papa I love it.

Speaker 6 (33:12):
Described that Laura needs to appreciate the things that she needs.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
Correct, which is at.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
That point, yes, and she will appreciate. I mean, I
remember one time I got for Hanukkah a coin purse.
I was like six and going, this is a fail.
This is a fail of epic proportions. I can't play
with this. I don't even have coins to put in it.
It was just like it was just like the most random,

(33:45):
weird present that And when you're a kid, you don't
want a dictionary, you don't you don't want a shirt.

Speaker 6 (33:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:54):
And what's so funny is that even the beginning of
these this episode, the very first thing we see is
the that's the window of the Olson and the toys,
and my six year old daughter was going, what's that?
I mean, she even got excited by seeing what these thinks. Yeah.
And then to get a big old dictionary fail fail.

Speaker 6 (34:16):
That puts in motion Laura.

Speaker 1 (34:20):
So then at the party's this girl she's been protecting,
she can't protect her. I just store in first she
can drink. And what do I do. I'm showing off
my music box and I toss it on the.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
Bed like its garbage.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
Yeah, and she just goes, so that's.

Speaker 3 (34:41):
Set number one.

Speaker 6 (34:42):
No.

Speaker 3 (34:42):
But then you're mean to to Anna And that was
the that was the trigger. I'm taking this fricking.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
Thing emotionally destroying this girl and then I throw it away.
So Laura's like, Okay, I've been totally shattered watching this happen.
And she just threw away the thing I wanted for
my just so she of course she's she's not gonna
miss it, which is which.

Speaker 3 (35:04):
Is why Margot yelled I would have taken it too.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
At that moment, I catch her, Yes, I find her,
and then I'm like, this is winning the lottery, the evil.

Speaker 6 (35:20):
Well.

Speaker 3 (35:20):
I really enjoyed Laura going up. She put the music
box up in the bar and she's hiding it up there.
She goes, she has she's the little dance and and
she hears the door open and she freaks out and
she hangs upside down, which is a classic, such a
little kid thing to do too. And it's just the
wind opening and closing, and then the music box breaks.

Speaker 6 (35:41):
Yeah, I didn't get funny. I missed where it broke.

Speaker 3 (35:46):
Did she in her in her like fear in her
getting When she came back up it sort of she
sort of accidentally swiped it off of like the ledge
and it fell and then and that's how.

Speaker 6 (36:01):
You're electronic noise. I don't know how.

Speaker 5 (36:04):
They do.

Speaker 6 (36:06):
The Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
Also one of my favorite teams is in the Barn,
Pauw is there. I'm there, and then pau shows up
and we're like, no, everything's fine.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
What what?

Speaker 6 (36:20):
What?

Speaker 1 (36:20):
What?

Speaker 5 (36:20):
What this I mean?

Speaker 1 (36:24):
I have a bunch of episodes a little as I've
watched them in every language at some point or not,
because it's great Japanese. It's really a lot of little
has really great Japanese. There are that scene. I happen
to watch that episode in Japanese one day randomly things
that I do that and Pauw turns around and leaves

(36:44):
and says Sya Nora Nelly and walks out of the
barn and I'm sorry. I found to be like the
most hysterical thing in the world. So yes, it's a
great seem So now I know she has it, and
this is the sadest dream come true. I have something
on you. Now you're dead and I'm now even though
I don't care about the music box at all, I
just know she will feel terrible and I can torture

(37:06):
her with this forever and ever.

Speaker 5 (37:07):
And I teach Willy the song.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
Willy who doesn't certainly doesn't care about the music box,
and we have to teach the song because he wouldn't
even know it. Suddenly is walking up to Laura asking
for stuff, and when she doesn't do it goes you.

Speaker 3 (37:24):
Yes, before before we get to this part, the scene
before this is so Laura has broken the music box
and she's upset, and there's a scene where Pa is
playing in the house the fiddle playing. Why he's not

(37:45):
even moving his fingers. No, not even the fingers though.
Was the was this is just a technical question. Was
the music being played to follow or he was just
doing something and then David Rose I put it on
top of whatever to do.

Speaker 6 (38:04):
Something on the stage.

Speaker 3 (38:07):
No, there wasn't.

Speaker 6 (38:08):
It surprises me that David didn't write it like a
fiddle where you're playing always two multiple strings at the
same time and.

Speaker 3 (38:17):
You haven't hold it differently.

Speaker 6 (38:18):
Yeah, and it's the bridge is different with that.

Speaker 3 (38:23):
Michael was like, yeah, it was that it was Michael
was not even moving his fingers. But anyway, I thought
it was also interesting because the camera angle was from
the perspective of the ladder looking that into the room,
and we've never seen that.

Speaker 6 (38:41):
You haven't seen that, we ever seen that?

Speaker 5 (38:43):
Ever?

Speaker 1 (38:45):
What the happen?

Speaker 3 (38:47):
I mean, it was great, but I was like, whoa,
this is wild. We're seeing this perspective.

Speaker 1 (38:51):
Episode is full of weird stuff the whole thing. Then
filter and weird.

Speaker 3 (38:57):
Then the dream first dream sequence happen, which I want
to hear everything about filming this, but also might add
this is peak older sister energy in these scenes of her.
Instead of what you would think if you are sharing
a bed with your sister and she is screaming out loud,
please please, I didn't mean it over and over again.

(39:20):
You would hope that your sister would be concerned about you,
not the least concerned about her.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
She does not care.

Speaker 3 (39:33):
Yes, she is pissed at Laura for disturbing her sleeps Okay,
this is.

Speaker 1 (39:40):
Like the woman in the New York Times said, it's
a sadomasochistic relationship with.

Speaker 5 (39:43):
What's going on in this episode.

Speaker 3 (39:45):
You know it is what the first sentence is.

Speaker 5 (39:47):
So we go to the dungeons picture and.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
I remember, even as a young person shooting this, it's like,
why did we suddenly go medieval times? Why isn't suddenly
in the thirteenth century and we're in a dungeon but.

Speaker 6 (40:00):
It's playing the drums. It's like the Revolutionary War.

Speaker 5 (40:03):
Oh oh yeah, and the wagon with one.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
Because Laurel ingles, what picture should whild she would have had?
There's no TV, there's no there's not even a sheriff
for jail and wallet crumk what would be your mental
image novels and history books reading about I'm surprised she
didn't do you know, the prisoner and the man in
the iron masks she did, it would have been stories
about kings and people in dungeons and old This is

(40:30):
what she had afterwards, even she.

Speaker 3 (40:33):
Asked PA, what's jail like? Like she's never seen a jail.
She doesn't know what jail is.

Speaker 5 (40:37):
So her only concept are you have history books?

Speaker 1 (40:40):
Are novels at the time The Three Musketeers where so
it's super superfer in the eighteen hundreds.

Speaker 5 (40:46):
What's your vision of the old times? It's thirteen hundreds.
It's like you go all the way back.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
So she's in a freaking dungeon and she's in rags.

Speaker 6 (40:54):
Eating script looking bad. It's like, oh, like, there's this
sort of glamorous going on with very.

Speaker 3 (41:06):
Very eighties glam even though we're in the seventies and earth.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
But she's a mess yea, and Missus also is dressed
as a dungeon master and he's going and I'm tossing,
and it's the Renaissance Fair now and I come in.

(41:31):
I love that. I love this scene so much. I
got to wear a different costume. I come in in
this insane resident Renaissance Fair like somewhere between a poor
gesture and a dungeon master freak outfit with a giant
turkey leg like you get at the Renaissance Fair, which
again I'm all about the food. I'm constantly all about

(41:53):
the food and the food. Yes, it was a real,
actual cold turkey leg like the Renaissance fir which I adored.

Speaker 5 (41:59):
That's awesome.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
So I'm really eating that turkey leg and I'm whacking.

Speaker 5 (42:05):
I hit her.

Speaker 1 (42:07):
And I then I hit her with the physically the
turkey leg after joining her, and then ticks after I
have Starker back and yeah, and I remember doing this great.
This is Melissa and I were in hysterics filming this.
We were dying because we knew we were okay, the

(42:28):
whole show's gone off. The rails were now happy.

Speaker 5 (42:30):
I know it must.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
We knew that we were like, what is even going on?
While we're shootings and Catherine and we were reveling and
got it, getting to wear different costumes and run amuck
and turkey legs are.

Speaker 5 (42:43):
Like the first day ever.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
And then I thought, I have to talk about the
other drim we took.

Speaker 6 (42:48):
Go for it, Go for it.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
This is a lovely show. And then there was a dungeon,
and then there was a hanging. And now she's on
the cart because her mind's gonna it's the French Revolution.
She's on the cart being taken to life. Surprise, I
didn't have a guillotine. And and then you said, you
said you got the wreck of seventeen hundreds of drum
the drum playing the out.

Speaker 5 (43:09):
Yeah, he said, the war.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
So she said home people were hying during the war.

Speaker 5 (43:14):
Okay, so there's up. They build the.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
Gallows in the middle of Semee Valley like sort of
like down the road, just past the feeds. They built
freaking gallows.

Speaker 3 (43:23):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
And she's in this card lot in change and now
I'm in God help us all.

Speaker 5 (43:29):
I'm in an.

Speaker 6 (43:30):
Execution with what let's and a candy cane in your mouth.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
It's even about this in an interview and she was
saying it was so Michael, it was so Michael to
have them have the candy cane sticking out of the mask.
This was a Michael Landon moment that where you went,
let's have a candy cane sticky because yes, and I
remember when I did. I remember thinking, okay, so my head,
they've got the ringlet sticking out, like, oh wait, in
case someone's not sure it's.

Speaker 5 (44:03):
Me, let's have a.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
They don't. And I was dying of laughter during this.
All of a sudden, so o kid, this is way gone.
And Melissa was loving this. She's like, you look really
great in that. And I really liked the peppermint stick
sticking out of the mout like, go, wow, you look
great with your hair down in the mat. It was, yeah,
this is balkers. So we're having a hell of a time.
And we drag up and I have a hood like

(44:26):
barely saving and the ringlet sticking it and the peppermint
stick and it is the nuttiest thing anyone's ever done.

Speaker 5 (44:33):
And while we were doing it, we said, this.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
Is the craziest thing anyone has ever done. What are
we freaking doing? And then they hang her and then
she wakes up, But I was like, we had her
in a dungeon and then we killed her.

Speaker 5 (44:47):
We hung out, we hung a child.

Speaker 3 (44:49):
Well, and then the judge, the judge sent.

Speaker 5 (44:51):
To the second it was shot.

Speaker 1 (44:54):
That was shot like that old twin Light Zone up
but do you remember the Twilight Zone episode.

Speaker 5 (44:59):
Judge, and they it was like the whole thing.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
Of the actual soundstage doors. Because of the hype. They
shot it like that.

Speaker 5 (45:05):
It was shot like that, you know.

Speaker 3 (45:10):
And I am the girl. I am the little girl
that watched these shows and would be like because I
hadn't read the books, I just watched and I was like,
and I was like, you know, this is all based
on the life. You know, this actually happened. Now, excuse
me why when I picked up the books, I was like,
wait a minute, there's no executioner scene in the books.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
We knew this episode was genius. When we're we knew,
now I have to do Miss Katie Kurtzman sobbing, sobbing
and sobbing, sobbing and crying when we're torturing Katie Kurtzman,
so brilliant. We've talked about this because Katie and I were.

Speaker 5 (45:46):
On a radio show being interviewed.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
And I said, how in but she said she was
talking about how she did it and her acting process
as a little girl, and she said, yes, she's taking
classes and and so she's working herself up to cry,
to stutter, to be this person. And she said how
difficult it was and her method of house she got there,
and how everybody had their methods. And I said, well

(46:08):
what And she looked at me and she said, I
don't know what the hell you were doing. I think
it was demonic possession. I said what she said, Well,
my memory of it is we were standing there, they're
setting up the shot and we're having a totally normal conversation.
We were talking about because Melissa Gilbert and I would
often go to the seven eleven on the way home.

(46:29):
We'd ride the same cargo, get slurpiece and then get
me the our cars and go a brestway home.

Speaker 5 (46:34):
So we're talking about whether.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
They get slurpees or ice cream after work, and then
we're inviting, of course, Katie, do you want to come
with us on And we're having a totally non conversation
about slurpece and then they said action.

Speaker 5 (46:46):
And he said, she's.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
Like working herself up. She said, you say we're going
and you know it's just over on Devon's You're oh action,
I can't hear you. She said, someone whitch and you
became someone else. And she said it was the scariest
thing I've ever seen. And I was actually momentarily genuinely frightened, because.

Speaker 5 (47:06):
Wow, have a nice person was just talking.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
You just went boy, she said, and then they said
cut and you turned around, said or you asking, because
that's what and she said, she said, I don't know
what the hell you were doing, but she said, you
scare the crap out of me doing.

Speaker 3 (47:22):
Do you know what the hell you were doing? Or
were you just already so you knew and understood that
character so wildly well that you would just be able
to snap into it.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
You talk about this, I remember how we did auditions too.
Don't let him see you act that Michael wanted to think.
He wanted people to know their characters so well and
be so much like their characters that a bush came
to show, we could have improfed the show. And you
said there were times where they could have just said,
oh the heck with it, just say something. We could
have made it up. Everyone was so in their character,

(47:52):
and by year three I was like, yeah, I guess
she is.

Speaker 6 (47:56):
You've talked about that thing where Michael said to you
just come in and do that thing, you do whatever
whatever that it was in that moment. Uh. I mean,
I think that's a huge part of casting, certainly in
television and maybe another place. You know, you could be
in on the stage you can be a little more
apart because you've got that distance, But in front of

(48:19):
the camera with.

Speaker 3 (48:20):
The lens, yeah, you can't hide.

Speaker 6 (48:22):
Hide, and you've got to be in a place where
you are able to be authentic all the time. What
what what's so interesting about your performance? Also because we
you know, we all know you, we all know you
and your humanity and your fundamental goodness, and yet you

(48:43):
could you had this humor about being cruel and evil
and it makes you redeemable. This was a big conversation
I had with Katherine McGregor years ago in this area
where Katine and Catherine had totally the capacity to be
absolutely hateful. I mean, she she could really be hateful,

(49:08):
but Catherine recognized that for her survival on the show,
that she had to mind the humor. And that's when
she started looking she needed to be foolish, not cruel,
and she made that very clear distinction for herself, and
you saw it more and more as the season. As

(49:30):
the series went on. In the beginning, she was pretty cold.
She got much more interesting and nuanced as we went on.

Speaker 3 (49:40):
Well in a great comedic moment, and this horrific episode
with you is you know, when Nels does catch you
and he wants to hit you with the strap for
the first time, and you're, you know, with your mother
and she's coddling you and you're playing all innocent, and
there is such a comedic flare to that that it's

(50:02):
so ridiculous. And yet you also see how damaged these
people are. Now what terrible parenting is. You know, this
enabling mother is doing.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
She's truly the narcissistic parent. And again we're talking about psychology.
Go fine, Alice Miller, Doctor Alice Miller, thou shalt not
be aware, et cetera, et cetera. She word book drama
The Gifted Child, well trunk And one of the things
that drama Gift chunk about if you have the misfortune
to have a parent who is a full on narcissistically

(50:36):
disturbed personality, as things are going to happen and you get,
you get Nelly that's what you get.

Speaker 6 (50:42):
We need to take a quick break.

Speaker 3 (50:44):
I know I was just gonna do that. I was
gonna do it. Okay, we have. Like I said, if
we could talk about this episode for eighteen more hours,
we would, But we're going to take a quick break.
Everybody will be right back.

Speaker 1 (50:55):
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(51:17):
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Speaker 5 (51:20):
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Speaker 3 (51:44):
Hi everyone, we're back. Okay, we're talking about the peak
of Evils. That is similar.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
Is so adorable when he does it when he goes,
oh god, you're so creepy, and it's brilliant.

Speaker 3 (52:14):
Also, how this very sweet melody all of a sudden
turns very creepily evil and dark.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
Yes, now you're talking about how with Catherine, who could
be very very serious, was so funny. And you see
in the very first episode she's like, well, you know
that won't wear well and she's seers and then gradually
and she goes, oh right, this woman's kind of an
idiot and starts letting her be stupid and ridiculous. I
always went to it was Christmas and plum Creek. I randomly

(52:41):
was watching that and I might be God, I love
that coat. I had that green coat. And I'm giving
Laura hard time going I want come on, I want
to buy the pony one. And at that point I
was still being good serious little backs being terrible. It
was more subtle than my jokes, but I'm getting her
hard time about trying to buy this pony and she's like, well, well,
your paw has to say. I was like, no, that's
your phony. And I'm so enraged that they won't sell

(53:05):
me the freaking horse that I lose it. And it's
still being really subtle because I was like trying to
be sore each other. But there's suddenly the moment where
I turn, I look to go, you don't even have
a shaddle and Nicholas grasped that throws me and I
went that hysterical.

Speaker 5 (53:23):
I was deadly serious to let you don't even have
a Okay, that's where.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
It started to turn.

Speaker 5 (53:31):
And that was the moment.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
Then after that there is more of the Nelly is
funny and rotten became.

Speaker 3 (53:38):
Did you think that because you added some humor to it,
then it was more written in or do you think
it was written in?

Speaker 1 (53:44):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (53:45):
I wonder what, like what came first? The chicken or
the egg?

Speaker 1 (53:48):
Right? Is it the audition because there's in my the
famous money home is the best home.

Speaker 3 (53:52):
Of course, of course they knew there was comedy, Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:55):
And there's there's there's a piece in there of the
other thing about the dishes and that's a freak can joke.
That is an absolute j okay, hilarious, freaking piece of humor.
And the fact that I got it day one, they
went up to your higher sign, you know, and that
so there were jokes, there were jokes. It was creeping
but then it was like I would take it and

(54:15):
run a little further and they go oh, and then
they'd write stuff and then they go, oh, really we're
going there are we? And then I'd go further with
it and they go, she went, she went all the
way that well, do I not? And it became a
war of escalation, fulminating and going down hill in a wheelchair.

Speaker 6 (54:30):
I think serious. I think serious definitely like that. And
when when Alison you have the capacity to and they
just sort of they maybe put a little carrot out
there and you bite, you eat the whole thing, It
just it does fuel the whole. It does become the
symbiotic thing where the writer is responding to what they're

(54:53):
giving you something and you're taking it all and okay,
let's go more. Yeah, she'll do it, she'll do it,
can do it, Let's give her more. And I think
that's a that's a really powerful part of the series
writing experience, particularly with a character like a villain an antagonism,
and to have that.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
Happened at that age I knew what that. I was like,
score how lucky I was, because, as I said, the
reason I like getting mill in the first place is
often child actor parts were just killing the namby pamby
bad little children, and I'm oh, look, this isn't and
the fact that I was allowed to escalate things, and
then I get the script and go, oh, I guess
they noticed that thing I did a couple of months ago,

(55:34):
because I go, wow, that that was happening. And I
was twelve, thirteen, fourteen years old. You oh that was
that was that was huge. I was very impressed that
that was happening.

Speaker 6 (55:46):
Let's talk about themes in this episode that are yes,
that aretant. There's so many things, I mean, pure pressure
and acceptance.

Speaker 5 (55:55):
Peer pressure, cruelty and revered.

Speaker 1 (55:58):
Laura trying to ring her friend and then it all
going wrong and manipulation using her decency and good conscience
of yeah, I really shouldn't have taken the music box,
and then using that which was a perfectly decent impulse against.

Speaker 7 (56:14):
Her and to be more horrible, right right, and at
the end, obviously at the end of that pod tells
her that you know that basically that that simple message
the truth will set you free, just.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
Being blackmail to being blackmailed, give him back the damn bubbicks.

Speaker 6 (56:31):
And let it go, get rid of it.

Speaker 5 (56:35):
You can't be blackmailed.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
If you tell it, then she has she has power
over you because you're trying to keep a secret which
you shouldn't be keeping. And now you're painted yourself into
a corner and Nelly is ruining your life. And yes,
that's loing it and enjoying it.

Speaker 6 (56:50):
Yes, ruining your life. Well, bullying versus bullying versus compassion
when you have you have someone who could who could
benefit from kindness because you can see that they're struggling,

(57:10):
and instead of doing that, you you.

Speaker 3 (57:16):
Way, yeah, you.

Speaker 6 (57:17):
You into that and make their life miserable.

Speaker 3 (57:23):
I mean, it's just well, and that's what that's what
narcissistic psychopathy, antisocial personality disorder people do. They find the weakness.

Speaker 5 (57:33):
More that Ma and Paul understood.

Speaker 1 (57:36):
They didn't just go, well, you committed theft and you
lied and lying and stealing her bad and beat the
heck out of her. They said, Okay, we get it,
we get why you did it, We get the whole
thing with Anna and in addiction, okay, god oops, we
get why you did. This is a perfect storm. But
you can't do that and we will help you go
back and fix this, and that you know that that
they they realize what it happened, like, we will help

(57:57):
you with help it Now. The big question many said,
do we it's the great conference because we've never seen it.
Did Nell's ever actually hit Nelly because this is one
of the episodes where he says that's it and gets
the belt off the wall.

Speaker 3 (58:10):
You don't think in the wait what you think? You
think that last shot of her running up to him
being mad at her, her running up the stairs and
him taking the strap up the stairs to follow her,
and you think he doesn't.

Speaker 6 (58:23):
Actually to the outside and hear Nelly screaming and snaps snaps.

Speaker 3 (58:27):
Oh, I totally one thousand percent thought that he was
like he was the one time he was actually going
to do it. And listen, I am not a proponent
of hitting children. I don't even like spanking, but in
that moment, I was like.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
Beater never we never showed it. And there are many
terrible people on the internet, so things like you.

Speaker 5 (58:49):
Should have showed him beating the children?

Speaker 1 (58:51):
No, there was you think he did. I under believe
that they got up there and he said, this is
you know, Nellie, this is the last time. I can't
believe that I am going to You're going to have
to be punished. I have the strap, and that she
pulled a huge scene, lots of tears and crying. Oh pah,
I swear, and that he sat down said I am

(59:15):
not the kind Come on, Neils, isn't the kind of
guy who's going to get someone's going to try not
to that he's cracked and didn't hit her, but said
this is the last time. And okay, you're you're a
rounded young lady, and I'm taking all your candy away
and and I just I can't.

Speaker 5 (59:31):
I'm not going to.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
Beat you because I'm not the kind of guy, but
you're terrible and you must you think that's do you
think that's where I believe you thought.

Speaker 3 (59:40):
You think that he didn't actually go ahead, Well.

Speaker 6 (59:43):
I think I mean, here's It's just I remember one
time being spanked with a hair brush. I remember pants
pulled down a hair brush. That event changed my life.
I am never doing anything that would take me to

(01:00:06):
that humiliation ever again. I I sort of have this
feeling that if if Nels had spanked you with the strap,
that that could have been a very turning moment in
your life.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
Now, that would have been good for this we saw, but.

Speaker 5 (01:00:24):
I did it again.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
Because next week again exactly if he had actually be
wouldn't there have been some delay at least until the
next time I did something terrible. Wouldn't I not have
also then gone to my mother and complain bitterly? And
she did because he knew. He knew that if he
really did one, I would throw a huge fit to
Mississles would never hear let him hear the end of it.
I cannot believe it would be the end of the world.

(01:00:48):
She would carry on and carry on. He would have
to pay so much for it if he had even
hit me once there is And then also Nels was
a decent kind man and went, I don't want to
hit you, and she and Nelly had worked. He didn't
hit her. He didn't hit her, he came.

Speaker 6 (01:01:03):
There is that wonderful moment in the episode, and I
hope I'm not confusing it with it, but there is
that wonderful moment where Nell's stands up and his shoulders
go back and he tells he's told Harriet, yes he's
real child, let her, He's really let her have it.
After this whining, this whining that you've done that he's

(01:01:23):
not putting up with that anymore. So maybe there was
a spanking, but it didn't cure you. No, it didn't
stop you.

Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
I think I got a lecture, and I think he
took away my candy, and I think I was grounded,
and I think he never laid a hand on me.
I wouldn't be surprised if there were times where Nell said, okay,
but if your mother asked, I totally hit you. Okay, fine,
I swear, Oh you know again.

Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
I am not a proponent of child abuse, not even
a proponent of spanking. But I will say when he
picked up that strap, I was very pro strap chairman
deserves it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
That's why they had to find a way to punish me,
because the parents were not going to hence rivers, eggs overhead,
flower right down wheelchairs.

Speaker 5 (01:02:15):
This was how my tumb up?

Speaker 6 (01:02:18):
Can't you? The things that did that did happen to
you were the things that redeemed you. I mean they
were able to right and and there was that blood
Like well with with Bunny, there's that blubbering moment where
you stand up and you're crying and mom, your mother
falls out of the wagon. It's that is there is

(01:02:41):
remorse in that moment.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
I get nice about this long camp out because I
almost Laura, and I go, I've been horrible and I'm
miserable and I don't have any friends. And then I'm like, oh,
my mother's air and I'm like that, But is there
a moment of remort.

Speaker 6 (01:02:57):
I'm sorry, and I watched this thing a moment camp.

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
Out, this one, I'm not well.

Speaker 3 (01:03:04):
We never see the after we just were running up
the stairs.

Speaker 5 (01:03:08):
I'm mad, I got caught.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
I am mad that I got the only.

Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
Let's see my social personality disorder. I'm diagnosing it officially today.
And yeah, yeah, she's She's a narcissistic psychopath, anti social.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
Personality with a giant turkey leg.

Speaker 3 (01:03:28):
Doc Baker didn't do that. I did that.

Speaker 6 (01:03:31):
There we go, Yeah, the music box and just I'm
gonna because we are racing for the end here the
music It means a standout episode in Little House sports
exploration of childhood challenges and moral dilemmas. It delivers powerful
lessons about honesty, the dangers of peer pressure, and the
strength found in compassion. This episode is a prime example

(01:03:55):
of how Little House on the Prairie combined entertainment with
meaningful life.

Speaker 3 (01:03:59):
Lessons and the moral of the story, and the ultimate
moral of the story is do not give a dictionary
to your child for their birthday present.

Speaker 1 (01:04:11):
Parents, think twice, think again, shame.

Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
Just so you know, say no to the practical book
that they might use one day. That started it.

Speaker 5 (01:04:29):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (01:04:30):
The real villains are mon Pa for gifting that.

Speaker 6 (01:04:32):
Yeah, okay, it anyway to the exit.

Speaker 3 (01:04:43):
Okay, everybody, we we We are still processing the music
box right now and we will be processing it. But
thank you for joining us so much. We want to
hear all of your thoughts about this episode as well,
so please give it to us. Give it to us,
check us out on Little House fifty podcast dot com
or our socials Little House fifty Podcast, and we'll see

(01:05:04):
you next time. Bob, get the wig. Let's fly, everybody.
Let's fly with a giant strap that we might or
might not use

Speaker 5 (01:05:17):
Spic

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