LIVING RIGHT PODCAST EP #45 w/ Pastor Dumisini Washington | Africa's & Black America's Prophectic Call to Zion

The topic of discussion is Africa's & Black America's Prophectic Call to Zion. Guest: Pastor Dumisini Washington

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Lucius mcdouesso that game and up thestand rid bag up the stands, all

(00:28):
right if it is mean, ladiesand gentlemen, And welcome again to the
Lucius mcdowells podcast. As we beginthis night, we are really excited about

(00:54):
our show tonight, and tonight weare hoping that we can get our guests
on tonight. We have a specialguest that's going to join us while I'm
talking. We're hoping that we canget him booked in again to the actual
show here, amen, Lower toGod. I'm going to send him this
information back again and hopefully we canget him booked into where we are.

(01:19):
Lower to God. Amen. SoI just want to go back in and
just say welcome again to the LuciusMcDowell leaving my podcast, and tonight we'll
jump off into the Word of Godas it pertains to living right. We
are talking tonight about a very importantsubject meta because we have a subject meta
expert that is going to be joiningus and hopefully that we'll get him in

(01:44):
here Glory to God. And I'mjust waiting for him to text me back
to let me know that he's inhere, and he says, I'm here
Pastor, praise the Lord well.As we begin to move forward in this
we'll be talking to you tonight aboutAfrica and Black America's present called to Zion
to Israel. And I tell youtonight we are blessed with a special guest

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that is going to bless us withso much knowledge and information. This guest
is Pastor at Doumasani Washington. He'sthe founder and the CEO of the Institute
for Black Solidarity with Israel that isI the SI and and he's the former
Diversity I Reach coordinator for over tenmillion members Christians United for Crisis KUFI.

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Pastor Washington is a pastor professional musician. This is what I love about him
because he's very gifted and talented.He graduated from the San Francis fran San
Francisco Conservatory of Music and he's theauthor of his latest book in his second
edition called Zionism and the Black Church. While standing with Israel will be a

(02:51):
defining issue for Christians color in thetwenty first century. He and his wife,
Lovely Valerie, have been married forthirty five years in AFC children and
three grandchildren. So they've been makingroom and doing some great things by producing
wonderful kids. But tonight we're gonnajump in. We're gonna bring them in
the line. But before we do, I just want to just jump right
into the scripture. Second term Timothy, the third chapter, the sixteen through

(03:15):
the seventeenth verse. Let it beknown that you know, when the Lord
first gave me this assignment, hetold me that you know the name of
this podcast would be Lucia's mcdowland.In the right podcast, it would be
a podcast for instructions for holy living. Now over in Sack of Timothy the
third chapter, the sixteenth through theseventeenth verse, the scripture says that all
scripture is given by inspiration of Godand is profitable for doctrine, for reproof,

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for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the Man of God may
be perfect clearly furnished unto all goodwords. I know about you, but
always tell you every time we wantto base our life on the Word of
God, the holy scriptures of God, because we know that it was inspired
by God given to man, sothat we can make it profitable for dost

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training, for reproof, and forcorrections and for instructions in righteousness. Now,
let me tell you something. Alot of opinions out there, but
we want to make sure that weare under the opinion and the word of
the Almighty God. You know,one of the things that we're experiencing is
that you know, people are perishingfor the lack of knowledge. Now,
let me tell you something. Knowledgeis out there, but we got to

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go back and make sure that weare. You know, we are resilient.
We are hungry for research. We'rehungry to know the more of God.
And we're not just hungry just gatheringinformation, because when you gather information
and knowledge, sometimes if you don'tdo it the right way, it costs
your head to swell up. Wedon't want no one with the big head
thinking that they got more information thanthe others. But we want you to

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get an understanding and get a justbalance of what the word of the Lord
is saying. Roberts forty seven sayswisdom. It is the principal thing.
Therefore, get wisdom and with allthy getting good and understanding. Tonight we
welcome doctor the Reverend, the oneand only after Doom, Sunny Washington,

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are you there, Come on andsay hello to the audience. Today.
Pastor McDonald's beat to be with youtonight, sir. Always a pleasure.
Listen, man, it is sucha blessing to be with you. Just
as well. We were together acouple of weeks ago and we had such
a powerful time down here in McDonaldGeorgia area, Hampton, Georgia, and
I got FI International Ministries and I'lltell you you left or mark that would

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definitely would not be It could notbe a race. Man. I'm telling
you, it's been a blessing that'sbeen etched in the people's hearts to understand
and get more knowledge concerning you know, Israel and our connection with Israel.
Talk to us just a little aboutjust what's in your heart and what the
Lord has been given you as anassignment to educate and to help the people

(05:54):
of God to understand what this isall about. Well, Pastor again,
first of all, I want tothank you again for having me and hosted
me on your podcast on today,and thank you again you and Pasadonna and
the entire Agape family for hosting myvalue and me. We had a wonderful,
wonderful time there on that weekend duringthat Israel summit, and we're looking

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forward to joining you all again reallysoon. This Israel ministry, if you
will, I've been I was ordainedas a minister by my mentor at the
time in the mid nineteen nineties.And love the Word, love the people
of God, love the Body.And it was around that time that God
was also dealing with me about theHebrew roots of my faith, that type

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of thing about Israel, about Africa, the region. Just a lot of
things were going on in my lifeas a young man at that time.
And one of the things that hashappened over the past thirty plus years has
been a growing since in the Wordand Him the prophetic even now as well
as it pertains to Africa's you said, Africa's prophetic call to Zion and the

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Word of God, how it speaksto all the nations. We know that
God is no respector of persons.But we also know that God called Abraham
and his seed, as we knowin Genesis chapter twelve, we will bless
those who bless you, curse thosewho curse you, and through you the
nations of the earth will be blessed. That journey with the Abraham Covenant and
then the people of God has beenalways intertwined with Africa about the region and

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the peoples right, the Israelites themselvesagain and what we call an Afro Asiatic
people, the people who who dwellin the region where of northeast Africa southwest
Asia. So we know all ofthose cultural things are true, but even
deeper than that, there are somespiritual truths as we begin to unpack together
there at Agape a couple of weeksago, as you were saying, and

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one of the things, and I'lljust start with this here, has to
do with God's prophetic call on theregion again to Jerusalem. That there's many
different entry points in the Word.But one of the point that we often
start with is when we talk aboutDavid. As you just were opening up
today, Man of God, you'rereading different parts of the scripture. The

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Word of God said, the Wordof God is life to us. Psalm
sixty eight, verse thirty one.Again, there's many points where we can
go to and start from. Butjust tonight, on tonight's just for a
moment here Psalm sixty eight, versethirty one, in which the Psalmist rights,
princess shall come out of Egypt andEthiopia cell soon stretch out her hands
onto God. It is a propheticcall from the region of Africa Egypt and

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Ethiopia, of course, ancient landsat that time, making up the majority
of what we now know as botheastern and the above and below northern and
southern part of Africa. If youlook at the map today, you'll see
the Egypt and Ethiopia are small nations, but these are huge regions at the
time. And he was saying fromthis region would come the gift. What

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is in the Hebrew the hush money, the gifts will be brought to God
means in Zion. And again thereis a specific calling that's there. And
the last thing off there is openup here. We know that the beginning
of that was when the Queen ofSheba in First King, chapter ten,
comes and brings the gifts. Shebrings four tons of gold, spices,

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and all these things as she comesto meet Solomon in Jerusalem, the Holy
City of God. Now what isnow three thousand years ago. Not only
did God speak it through David asa prophetic word, but the initial utterance
or a manifestation of that is theQueen of Sheba coming to the land,

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and what was going on. Godwas cementing a relationship there in which Africa's
role in leading nations to Zion,that God gave an grave invitation to this
African queen, and Jesus himself evenreferred to this great visit. There's something
happening being birthed there at that time. Wow, this is going to be

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an exciting night because one of thethings that I do know is that you
know in your book, you knowZionism and the Black Church. You do
say you know that the question iswhy standing with Israel will be a defining
issue for Christians of color in thetwenty first century. Now you're going all
the way back to Verse King withKing Queen Shiva, and you're going back

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to even from Psalms sixty eight whenyou're talking about Egypt and Ethiopia, and
how do we now educate How dopastors now begin to start this process because
so many have probably gotten to theplaces that they're not, you know,
abreast of you know, this veryserious relationships, but so many have found

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so many questions that's almost becoming verycontroversy controversial, And as a result of
the controversy that goes with the subjectmatter, how do we help pastors become
more knowledgeable? How do we havepastors in their congregation become more astute of
what is really going on. Yes, sir, yes, sir. Well

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again, Pastor, I appreciate youso much, not just for this platform
on tonight, but even in invitingus to come. And this is what
our organization has been doing, theInstitute for Black Solidarity with Israel, and
people can go on IBSI dot organd you can find out more about us
as well. We, among manyother things, go to churches and we
meet with pastors and leaders and justthe congregation and we do presentations along these

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lines. Right, we always standon the principle of the biblicals on the
scriptures. Right, then we alsospeak to as you're referring to, Pastor,
the other issues. The controversy thatyou're referring to is really about the
modern day, the modern state ofIsrael, the Israeli Palestinian conflict, all
these things that pertain to human rights, that's pertained to counter terrorism. What

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are the groups like Hamas and Fatah, the PLO and all of these things.
Right, Israel doesn't have a rightto defend itself and how should it
be doing this? And so theseare the modern day controversies. But when
we really understand it scripturally, theyare basically an extension of Scripture. When
we go back thousands of years toancient Israel, Ancient Israel was also surrounded

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by enemies. Ancient Israel was alsoattacked by the different nations around them who
actually used everything from terrorism to thekilling of children. All these things were
something that was that that are happeningnow have their roots in the scriptures,
have their roots in Israel's long historyand it's walk with God and scriptures and

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Africa has always played a key andrecurring role. What we understand here,
particularly in the States again passed alongwhat you're saying with the controversy coming to
the modern age. We recognize,for example, that during the civil Rights
movement of the United States, whenBlack Americans are being joined by other groups,

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especially the Jewish community, and fightingfor their civil rights, fighting to
dismantle the Jim Crow system in bothin the segregated South and in the racism
that's being that black people are facingin different parts of the country. One
of the things that's happening in particularlyas you get to the sixties, is
the controversy about the Arab Israeli conflict. Now it wasn't controversial so much in

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the black community because we were focusedon that. We weren't I mean Doctor
King, by Rustin, a,Philip Randolph, all these different civil rights
leaders, both clergy and secular,we're working together for the goal of again
justice, for the goal of freedomfor African Americans. And so what the
issue was that we will be calledon, we meaning black leaders. Black

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leaders were being called on to speakto the issues of the Middle East by
different ones who were actually warring.Because there's a legacy that exists within the
African American community of justice, offreedom, about the of people fighting to
regain and to gain their dignity tothe game rights, to get to gain

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access after having gone through slavery.Jim Crow and all of these things are
going through it at that time,in particularly with the civil rights movement.
So they wanted to know they whoseday the Arab powers, whether it's the
leaders of Egypt, the leaders ofJordan, the leaders of Syria, the
United Nations, the different media andthe press, they those are the days
they want even israelis right, theJewish community of the United States. They

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wanted doctor King and these other civilrights leaders to weigh in on the conflict,
knowing that whatever these leaders said,because they had such great moral authormce,
many people would be impacted by theirwords. And so this is one
of the main reasons that the Blackchurch in the Black community got so involved.

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Right, It wasn't so much wewere trying to get involved, but
they were asking. And unfortunately,when it came to the propaganda and the
misuse of our legacy, some peoplewere trying to use the black struggle for
freedom as something as a weapon againstone side or the other. And again
some of the controversy pastors, whatyou had were groups, particularly the Palestine

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Liberation Organization led by Yassir Arafat.He would always attempt to make common cause
with black leaders both in Africa andthe United States, so that everyone would
see him as the legitimate leader ofthe air Palestinian people, when in reality
he was never elected. He wasnever appointed, none of those things.

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That he just appointed himself by whathis own words, by the power of
the gun, right, the boatof the gun. In other words,
he was the baddest dude as faras he was concerned. So he was
going to be the leader of thepeople, even though he treated his own
people in the areas of the Palatinianterritory, very very very poorly. Wow.

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Well, you know what this isgood information because there again you know
you've studied it. You pretty muchbecome a subject matter expert on this.
And I think that you know thatthis is an opportunity that I believe in.
God is allowing your voice to beheard clearly over airways, in different
congregation, in different settings, sothat there can be education. I want
to just kind of go back tosomething that you wrote in your book and

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talking about as the children of Israel, Sir Pharaoh, they remembered their gods
in stories and songs. They encouragedhimself with hopes of a greater future amid
a mournful present reality. And Ithink you quoted Sums one thirty seven.
I've just reading his boy the roofsof the Babylon. There we sat,
we also well when we remembered Zion, when we put more emphasis on Zion,

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and he says, unbles in inthe midst we hung our hearts for
there our captors asked us for wordsof songs, and our tormentors of us
mirt singing for us the songs ofZion. How shall we sing the song
of the Lord on foreign soil.If I forget you, old Jerusalem made

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my right hand. Forget it,It's still made my tongue cling to the
palate if I do not remember,if I do not bring up Jerusalem at
the at at the beginning of myjoy. And he goes on and says,
likewise, the African slaves sing told, I'm sorry. Likewise, the
African slaves sang told stories and drippsof freedom. We just talked about that.

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It was those heart gripping, soulstirring songs that were black people's gifts
to Western music and the foundation ofvirtually every form of America's music, from
folks to gospel, to jazz torock to the Negro spirituals. And I
think sometimes, you know, we'vecome to this place where we've all most
forgotten about the Negro spiritos. Canwe just talk about that? Because in

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your book You Go and you talkabout your Go Down Moses, You talk
about roll Jordan Rolle, you talkabout Josh the Battle of Jericho, You
talk about the sweeting low sweet Chariotthat Ulijah rock. Give them my Lord,
you live with Daniel and there's abomb and give it. There is
a moment of education I think thathas been lost in the new generation,

(18:38):
where many of them sometimes forget aboutthose Negro spirituals that brought us this far.
You know, when we think aboutto lift every voice and things,
the lyrics that goes with that.You know, my daughter had an opportunity
to minister on Sunday, and beforeshe got ready to minister, she sang
a hymn my hope it's built ownnothing less but Jesus blending righteousness. And

(19:02):
I mean it was blessing to meto hear her go there, because music
has become so post Martin to thepoint where it's forgotten about, you know,
the foundation of where we all camefrom. Can we talk about there
for me? Pastor? You saidso much you as a musician, of
course, as you said, aworship leader all your life. I mean,

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it's a fuse and you and Ishare that love and that that gift
that God has graciously given to us. And so there's an intimacy there with
God as David as a psalmist inwriting and singing and and worshiping. And
what was so amazing we understand aboutBlack American history again, and it gets
so Unfortunately, like you said,these things become negative issues for those who

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want to use it as a politicalweapons and all those types of things.
But Black American history is some ofthe most richest cultural, spiritual, one
of the most powerful stories. AndI'm not just saying that as the black
man were just saying that. It'strue. You're talking about centuries of slavery,
right, and then another century ofJim Coast segregation and lynchings and eugenics

(20:10):
trying to destroy us as medical experience, all of these things. Not only
are we not that we still here, but alive and thriving. No one
we used to sing all the timein the church. If it had not
been for the Lord on our side, where would we be? Our story
is told most effectively and most honestlyby our relationship with God. We called

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on God in the midst of oursorrow, in the midst of our pain,
in the midst of the whips,in the midst of the chain,
and the midst of being treated lessthan animals, right because at least animals
you feed and you take care of, you protect. We're being torn asunder
and lynched in all of these thingsthat pastor our ancestors called on God the

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same way that the Hebrew slaves andEgypt called on God. And not only
that, one of the greatest abolitionistswho helped conduct the underground Railroad was Harriet
Tubman, and we called her BlackMoses. Why because it was the same
parallels that she was helping to leadher people to freedom. The songs,

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the worship the word sustained us.So we would sing these songs and want
of the member of the songs weare quired would sing. It was a
modern day version of of not theswing Row Street Charity, but it was
haven't got along this stair yet?It was, it was it started.
It's almost like swing row seat chainAnd I'm trying to remember that of the
title, and it was it don'tcome back to me in a moment.

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Green trees had been in the sittingstands and trembling, and the trumpet sounds
in us. So I ain't gotlong to send. That's still away,
still away, steal away. Thankyou pass to see that. That's my
musician brother in the house. Youknow what I'm saying, steal away.
I remember learning that song. Seeback in the day when I was singing
by by the by the seventies,you know that I was the old old
spiritual right if someone had redone itas a gospel, right. And so

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I started to teach it to thechoir a young man. I was by
my seventies and eighties or or so, I'm about my teens and so.
And my mama told me. Shesaid, do me sani. That song
was one of the spirituals that shesaid, but they were coded. She
began to teach me they were codedsongs. She said, we were singing
steal Away, but what was codedin the messages was escapism. We were

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talking about which tree to meet by, we were talking about what time so,
because he said it was illegal forus to gather together and congregate unless
it was on a Sunday, andeven then the plave master would have people
watching and listening because folks was alwaysplanning their escape where they're all either called
planning insurrections and everything. So shebegan to tell me that there was a
spiritual song singing unto God, butit also had a double meaning in which

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they were singing to each other,giving each other information. I grew up
learning about these things. This isby heritage and our history, because again,
as you said, Pastor, wehad nothing but God. If God
wasn't going to deliver us, weweren't going to be delivered. We recognized
that this was going on. Sothese songs, yes, go go go
pass No no, no, nono, I don't want to I don't
want to go in Well, Iwant to just reconnect what you said to

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Psalm one thirty seven. This isexactly what the Levites said in Babylon.
They said that while they were enslaves, the Babylonians who had destroyed their temple
and killed most of their people andtook the rest of them, the best
of the best to Babylon to serveNebuga Nezzar. The Word of God says
in Salm one thirty seven that theircaptors demanded for them a song. Pastor,

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we know that the slaves would singand carry on soul, that slave
masters loved to hear them. Theywould actually charge money for other people to
come from other plantations and listen tothese black folks sing. So folk they
were wondering about all our gifting ofsinging and all that kind of stuff.
Yes, it's a God gifting.So the Aretha Franklins and the Whitney Houston's

(23:56):
on. All of them, allof them came out out of church.
You named one of them. Theycame up by the church right, and
they learn to sing and play likethat in church right. So folks were
so impressed even centuries ago. Andso they would sing these songs, and
they would be listening to us singing. And here's the thing what the Psalmist
says, and saw them on thirtyseven, they didn't want to sing Pastor.

(24:17):
They said, how can they gobeat on us and tell us to
sing? And then they said,even if I asked the question, how
can we sing the Lord's song ina strange land? And then it hit
them, how can we not sing? God? We need you? So
if we go, if we everneeded to sing the songs of Zion,
it's while we are in captivity inBabylon. So if I forget you,

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let my right hand and you're passingyou and I both visits, we do
all our improvisation on the right hand. Let my right hand forget how to
get that lick, Let me forgethow to hit that run. When I
let me forget how to even praise. If I don't make Jerusalem my chief
That's one of the reasons why Zionis so important to us as Black folks.
We don't hurt a these Ion,Zion, Baptist Church, Church of

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God in Christ, Zion, Jerusalem, Abyssinian, so many of our churches
even named after Jerusalem or Zion.That's how deep it goes for us.
While it goes so deep. AndI'm thinking about even as you're speaking,
you know, you start thinking aboutsongs like or still Away, Still Away,
I had got long to stay here. You think about swing loads feet

(25:22):
cherry you and a precious Lord,take my hands, amazing grace, you
know. And I mean I remembermy grandmom and my grandfather going to church
with them and hearing them sing thesesongs. And I mean, to come
this far by faith, I mean, it was always this something that created
a faith. It always created alip for people, regardless of what their

(25:45):
struggle was. And I'm just thinkingthat back in that day and hour,
that they didn't know where things weregonna, how they were going to pay
their bills or you know, youknow it was behind on the rent or
whatever, they knew that they've comea long way, and they knew that
God had been with them. Thatwhole time. I remember, even though
songs such I need the Oh Ineed it, I can imagine what it

(26:07):
was like being I can't even imaginewhat it would be like being, you
know, in their shoes when theywere in those turmol situations, because they
knew how to cry out to God. And like you said, even in
songs they you know, why wouldwe singing a strange man, Oh we
need to sing in a strange man, because this is I cry out to
God. You know, the scripturesays was the righteous cry. He would

(26:29):
deliver them out of all of ourafflictions. And I truly believe that there
was this connection again even back whenthey didn't know what was going to happen,
but they knew that there was aGod, yes sir, Yes sir,
Yes sir, that was going toturn things around and make it right
to them. Yes sir. WhenGod spoke to Moses pastor and at the

(26:51):
burning Bush, and he told Mosesto go back to Egypt and told Pharaoh
to let the people go once again. But the one of the most famous
Nego spirits, when Moses, whenIsrael was the needs a bland, let
by people go oppress so hard theycould not stand, let my people go,
so that again we're singing as blackfolks, singing those songs on plantations.
What did he tell Moses? Hetell Moses, I want you to

(27:14):
go and tell phel to let mypeople go. He said, I have
heard their cries, I've seen theiroppression, and I have come down to
visit them. Right like you said, our hope in those songs, whether
that God will go hear our cry, see our oppression, and come down
to visit us. When you fastforward a little bit and go to that
is that the Civil War left thefirst one that the movie Glory were Dindel

(27:38):
Washington won his first Academy Award basedon a true story of the first black
regimen coming out of Massachusetts. Blackmen fighting for their own freedom and why
because they seize the opportunity. FrederickDouglass about Christian God saved at a very
very young age and God. Italked about this in my book as well,
because he wrote about it in hisbook. He got saved to the

(27:59):
young and a young man and thepastor who led him to the Lord also
was a prophet and let him know, God's got a great work for you.
Do this, young man, wasstill a slave. He said,
but God's got a great work foryou to do. You're gonna speak,
You're gonna preach my word, andyou're gonna do it different parts of the
world. This is in the eighteenhundreds passages. Ain't know, some crusade
somewhere in la somewhere in Prince Florida, somewhere in twenty thirteen. This man

(28:21):
is a slack. He even askedthem the general, he said, how
is this possible? He said,God can make all things possible. This
is who Frederick Douglass was. AndFrederick Douglass, among the many things,
advocated the President Lincoln allow these blackmen to fight. Now, come on,
now, you talk about his faithin God, he said, but
his faith had led to he said. Yeah, he's gonna believe God.
He said, But you know what, they gonna believe God, and he's

(28:42):
gonna encourage these men that are prayingand asking God to see this opportunity.
What gave Frederick Douglass that kind ofcourage to go to the President of the
United States during slavery and advocate forthe black men to be able to fight.
They some folks didn't even see themas human beings. What was it?

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He said himself. It was hisfaith in God. Right, This
is what we're talking about. We'retalking about the type of faith in the
midst of it. If God don'tmove, ain't nothing go happen. I
ain't got no backup plan. Itain't no Plan BC or nothing like that.
God don't have to do this.This is the faith that forged our
forefathers right and again and was passeddown because you know about centuries of that

(29:26):
reality and then even after slavery,now we gotta deal with jim Crow and
lynchings and all of these things.How in the world are we still here
loving and serving God because we askedhim to keep us. We asked him
to help us those songs and inthe lyrics to those songs. And you
and I talked about Pastor, andI want to encourage everyone of the many
many songs go and check them out. I'm a musician again, Pastor.

(29:48):
The music we love the new song. There's lots of new songs. And
some of the new songs ain't sogreatly, not Pastor, but you know
there's still these young musicians. Comeof it is come out of it is
good. Everything like that I canappreciate it. And so when we're talking
about the old, someone saying notsinging any of the new were just saying,
at least I said, you're saying, pastor being aware of knowing have
knowledge of the old list every Voicessing written by James Wolden Johnson as a

(30:10):
poem first and foremost, let mejust pause and say this Pastor. Unfortunately,
again, many black and non blackI'm talking about younger generation now are
only aware of lift w voices andthing because the NFL did it in the
Super Bowl, or because the NBAdoes it for the All Star Game.
And you know what, I gotmy own opinions about that. I don't
want to get into that right now. But here's the thing. That song,

(30:33):
that poem was written in eighteen ninetynine, we talked about before the
twentieth century even got here, andit was a song of praise, of
prayer and a prophecy the man ofGod, and that last stands up asked
God to help us remember him andall that he had done for us.
And I come up to the scendentof slaves, let our feet stray from

(30:57):
the player. In other words,God, we don't remember you. Like
Moses told the children of Israel,when you get in the land and you
eat from vineyards that you did notplant, you drink from wells that you
did not dig, you live inhouses that you did not build. See
that you do not forget God.James Weldon Johnson prayed a prayer over us,
pastor, and he said, God, don't let our people get so

(31:21):
fat and full and blessed that theyforget who brought them out. Don't let
them get drunk with the wine ofthe world. These were what our forefathers
now again eighteen ninety nine, therehas been no civil rights movement right,
but here are black folks moving forward, generating to start building Black Wall Street.
We knew we were defying all ofthe odds only because God was with

(31:42):
us and the past. You know, these elders saying, God, don't
as we are moving forward after allthis death and destruction in slavery and being
brought from Africa, don't let usforget. You cause us to remember the
God who brought us out. Sothis was a very very very very deep
thing in us. This is whyit connects so deep to Zion, because

(32:05):
when we would think about Zion,when we would sing about crossing the river.
When we would sing about I'm gonnalay down my burdens down by the
riverside, we were singing of thatpain and promise. We were actually singing
as people of a legacy who camethrough that slavery and came through that Jim
Crow, came through all of thosedifferent things, all of the ancient and

(32:27):
the modern, and are here tolive to tell about it. How good
God has been. That's why itpassed it. When we start singing the
old church or just start moaning,we just start talking about it when I
think of the goodness of Jesus andall that He's done from that's how we
can. That's why black folk cansing one song for twenty minutes and tear
the Church of ain't even changed,ain't changed the saw. Maybe change the
key, right, may it changeit? The little cords change on it.

(32:50):
But we on that why because oursouls are meditating on what the Word
of God is saying, yes,yes, just you know, I'm listening
to what you tend. And there'sa scripture over in Romans that I've definitely
got to inject in this because you'reon in something back in that day,
back in that hour, there wasa forever remembering what the Lord had done

(33:13):
and what he what we were expectingto be done. It was almost like
they never forgot to thank him.And you know, even as you begin
to quote, uh, you know, uh, the last script I mean
the last the third final verse oflooked at revoice and say I'm a reader,
right quick? He says, God, by we were years going by
silenteers. Thou who hast brought usthus far on the way, Thou who

(33:37):
hast by thy might led us intothe light, Keep us forever in thy
past. We pray, let ourfeet straight from the places our God where
he met thee Let our heart drunkwith the wind of the world. We
forget thee egos and say, shadowbeneath our hands. Maybe we forever true

(34:00):
to our God, true to ournative It's almost like, you know,
we cannot forget where we came from. Romans who the first chapter, verse
number twenty one. This is inthe King James version, Because every time
I think about this, I thinkabout where we are now as a people

(34:21):
and where we came from back inthat time. The scripture readson says,
because that when they knew God theyglorified him, not as God, not
that were thankful, but became veiginin their imaginations, and their foolish heart
was darkened. And I'm looking atwhere we are now as a people,

(34:42):
that we are free now, asthe people that we have got education,
now that we are people that init, since we've kind of, you
know, living in places where wewould have never lived many many, many
many years ago, and it's almostlike we forgot about who brought that,
We forgot about the tears and thestruggle of the past. Don't get it
wrong. We don't live in thepast forever, but we cannot forget.

(35:06):
You can't forget about you know,what shoulders we're standing on right now?
We're not standing on our own shoulders, yes, sir, not the past.
What you're saying is so I'm sorry, pastor can you hear me go?
Oh okay, I thought it great. What you're saying is so everything
you're saying, manam God, it'sso powerful, and I can hear it's
often what happens, especially now.And you said, are we are we

(35:29):
really aware of the legacy? Arewe really aware of the whose shoulders were
standing on? One of the thingsone of the unfortunate things again that has
happened over a period of time,and especially over the past fifty plus years
or so, is that a youngergeneration, maybe not knowing those things,
being deceived into slipping into the bitternessof life. Now here's the thing I

(35:51):
loved the way you said the pastorwe have to remember the past so that
we are grateful now as we moveforward, and also so that we can
hinue to move forward that even inour pleasant difficulty, somebody listening maybe then
their home, their family, theirministry, there may be something that's going
on that's not good. That's veryvery difficult time. That you come from

(36:12):
a legacy of folks who face thingsmultiple times worse than what you're describing.
Yet God was faithful as they heldonto his unchanging hand, as the old
Satsy used to say. And oneof the things that happens is that when
I don't understand from whom I descended, when I don't really understand who came

(36:34):
before me, then someone else cancome and deceive me about my heritage.
Someone else can try to come inand fill in the blank, right,
So then they'll try to tell meI'm somebody who walks around with his parts
hanging down. I'm somebody who walksaround cursing and swear, and in front
of elders especially, I'm someone whodoesn't respect men or women, who doesn't

(36:55):
respect elders. In other words,is they try to defind me in songs
or in media movies, those typesof things in which those people there on
that screen are not representing the godlycharacter or at least the legacy and the
dignity from which I defended. Somebodymight trick me into thinking that I'm supposed

(37:20):
to be acting like something else thatI don't remember, or I'm not aware
of who I am. So Istart walking out a different calling. I
start trying to be. Isn't thatwhat God told me the children of Israel?
He said, when you get tothe land, you're going to be
surrounded by other nations who do allkinds of ungodly things. Oh, don't
do like that. Don't do this, he said, you'renna ask. Want

(37:42):
to ask about the k Knights andthe hit Ice and how do they worship
thy God? He said, Iwant you to do that. He said,
you follow me, You do whatI've called you to do. And
what's happened with us like any otherpeople, when we got distracted and tried
to live like other folks. Otherfolks got when we tried to act like
we didn't know what or for good, like you said, forgot the God
who brought us out. Then westarted taking on the character of other people

(38:07):
who don't know God and your rightpastor, that's when we start to get
in trouble. Yeah, and Ilove this because you know, as you
begin to finish that particular segment ofwhat you're speaking about, we got to
go back and say. You know, in your book you say Israel is
in the blood of the Africans,both literally and figuratively, from the Land

(38:28):
of Ham to the New World.Now you also talk about the Kushites,
and I would love if you canjust really lay some foundation for those who've
never heard or understood you know,this particular this particular subject matter, because
we again need to understand that.You know, when you're talking about Jewish

(38:51):
people, you know, there's asection that you know, you talk about
who are the jew who are theblacke, who are the black Hebrew Israelites?
You know, do we leave keepourself out? Where do we come
from? Yes? Sir, itis so powerful because as folks of African
descent, our lineage is intertwined withthe Hebrews, as others all in the

(39:15):
region. Meaning you're going now backto everything from genealogy, when Noah after
the flood, and they talked aboutthe three sons that he had as the
descendants from those sons, and werecognized that his second son was named Ham,
and Ham before we get the termHamites became the progenitor of what we
now today call Africa. He hadfour different sons, and his four sons

(39:36):
became the fathers of that entire regionof Northern Africa, southern Africa, going
up even up until the Middle East. So you're talking about these people who
are Hamites, who then are recognizedas these African descent, if you will,
right all throughout the region. Rightand then now you're talking about the
Shimites, the Israelites, those whodescended from shim one of Ham's, one

(40:00):
of Noah's other sons. Here,this is where Noah's people or Abraham's people
came from. But again, thereweren't these color to see all these hopes
of folks of color all the againis again we're not trying to make us
better or lesser than God. Don'trespect the person. But you talk about
a region in which all these peopleare people of color. And now you're
also talking about the intermingling, whetheryou're talking about moses Ethiopian wife, whether

(40:25):
you're talking about the fact that eventhe Ishmaelites descended from Abraham and Hagar,
who was an Egyptian. Once again, this whole, this whole notion of
whose Arab, Who's African, andwhose Israelite. This was something that even
though there were different tribes at thetime, there was this intermingling of the
people so often right that you evenRayha, who was a Canaanite who lived

(40:47):
in Jericho, winds up marrying intothe family. The Word of God says,
it becomes part of the Messianic line. So you're talking about not only
that, now you're also talking aboutIsrael becoming a nation in Africa. Slaves
for four hundred plus years in Egyptreceived the Torah at Mount Sinai in Africa,
which is right there in Africa.All this happens in Africa. Israel

(41:09):
becomes a nation in Africa, andnow only that going fast forward from there,
when Herod wants to kill the baby. Jesus the Word of God says
that he God tells Joseph to takeJoseph and Mary and the baby and go
down into Egypt and wait there untilHerod dies. You have this connection with
Africa. You cannot tell Israel's storywithout telling Africa's story. It is intertwined,

(41:36):
completely connected. And it has alwaysbeen the case. The issue of
the Black hebre in real life.That discussion here, which is such a
raging one here, I talk aboutit in my book. I want to
encourage Mondy to get to get thatin the Zionism, in the Black Church
and again. And you can goto IBSI dot org and you'll see it
on our store site there for thosewho are interested in that, because I'm

(41:57):
just making a comment on it here. The turn Hebrew Israelite or Black Hebrew
is Arelite has over the last especiallythe last thirty plus years, has come
to mean a broad group. It'snot just one group, right, I
talk about it in my books.There are Black Hebrews who've been following the

(42:19):
Jewish faith or Judaic faith, ifyou will, since the end of the
nineteenth century, and they have acontinual legacy they're based in Chicago, all
their different parts of the country.Rabbi Kaperskune is their chief Rabbi. I
don't know him personally, but we'vecorresponded before. I know some of the
people who are part of his organization. Wonderful people and everything they do I'm

(42:40):
amazing. One of the young man'spart of our organization as well, and
he has a great reputation throughout theJewish community. And then there's the Black
Hevieers lights of the Mona Israel wholived there. They moved from Chicago years
and years back in the nineteen sixties. They live in Israel to call the
community of Peace. They've been therenow for a couple of generations. Some
of them serve and there's really defenseforces and they have their own community and

(43:02):
some of them interspers throughout other partsof Israel. And then pastor, you
have this other group that often associatedwith a lot of negative things because of
some unfortunate things attached to the group. This is the group some of you
may be aware of against several fromthe other groups that we're talking about.
But they'll be on the street corners, preaching and unfortunately maybe using the foul

(43:23):
language yelling at people, yelling atpastors. These are some of the groups
that go to people's churches very veryrudely on Sunday. They're going to people's
pocketing lots and pass out flyers andtell people all kind of negative, nasty
things about their pastor. And unfortunately, again that group, and they often
call themselves that same name, whichis what causes so much of the confusion

(43:46):
because the people aren't aware of thesedifferent groups, and some of them who
use names that may be similar tothat, and where they may have come
from. And the first group thatI mentioned goes all the way back to
the eighteen hundreds, right, thisis not not the same thing. But
this this newer crop, if youwill. I'm saying newer, just relatively
many of them, not all,but many of them, unfortunately, have

(44:08):
a very negative stance, very antichurch, anti pastor, anti Israel.
Right, it may be anti white. They'll they'll say, these are the
ones. You will say that blackJews. And there are many many black
Jews, right, some different reasons, whether they're from the Euopian Jews,
the Nigerian Jews, the Israelites.To hear in this nation all these things,

(44:30):
they'll say, those are the onlyreal Jews, and all the white
Jews or brown Jews over the youknow they got brown enough, they're fake
Jews. Those are that's wrong.Doctrine, is no theological background for that
whatsoever. But unfortunately that group,because of social media and other things,
has gained traction and we see itgrowing somewhere. I don't know what the

(44:51):
numbers are, but particularly for youngerBlack men, young women as well get
caught up in that more negative group. And it's not so much often a
person suit of Tauro study or anythingin terms of the Hebrew you know,
UH foundations, that faith, thosetypes of things. That becomes more of
a militant anti establishment type of thing. And that's unfortunately what we see capturing

(45:13):
the hearts and minds of some ofthe young black men in the church today.
I'll tell you what man this is. I knew that once we got
to talking tonight, it was goingto be very difficult to unpack everything about
what you know about it, andit's for its UH Africa and Black America
connection to Israel. But before weget out of here, I want you

(45:37):
to at least address you know,you know, the subject matter of the
hatred for Israel in terms of thereal issue of the Palestinian human rights issues
and where do we go from here? Yes, yes, sir pastor.
It is so important now more thanever before. And I referred to the

(45:57):
book just for the book will getI attactic there as well, the whole
Palestinian human rights issue as it pertains, especially to the Israeli Palestinian conflict.
Everyone. And when we say conflict, there is the short version and the
more complex version. And the shortversion is that there is a Jewish state
after almost two thousand years of desolationin nineteen forty eight, the Jewish people

(46:21):
and folks of folks from Europe,from literally all over the world, those
who have been living there this entiretwo thousand year history since Rome destroyed the
temple back in seventy eighty till nowthey finally, as the Word of God
prophesied, were able to re establishthe homeland. That doesn't mean Jesus has
come back and other kind of stuff, but this is part of the word
of God that he would gather theoutcasts of Israel from the four corners of

(46:45):
the earth. That's the simpler part, right, that God is doing what
he said. The more complex partis that there are Arabs that he were
living in Norwegian. Some of themwere displaced. Many Jews were displaced.
There was wars and fighting and allof those things. But people have to
understand that the underpinning for the warshas much more to do with the Arab

(47:07):
powers not wanting there to be aJewish state. And this is why we
see so much what we're seeing nowthe Hamas slaughter of some thirteen hundred Israeli
back on October the seventh, whenthey came in on the underground tunnels and
all the paragliders and all of thosethings. Those people's lives, destroyed everyone
and still hostages in Gods that rightnow, what I would say to the

(47:30):
people who are listening, now,educate yourself on it. We as our
organization, we try to provide informationboth digitally by online that type of thing
in books, but also would cometo your churches and everything and have the
conversation and unpacked this. I wantto encourage everyone to be prayerful. As
you are getting information to the wordof God said in loaves, you're getting

(47:52):
get understanding. There have always beenforces that have tried to deceive the Black
community or actually they use the blackcommunity right to deceive the world into not
understanding what's going on in the MiddleEast, not understanding the word of God
as pertains to prophecy has pertained toour world, right, and so doing

(48:16):
that robbing people of their heritage.Right. So I would encourage people that
the reason why there's been such apush to get black folks, whether it's
civilized leaders, educators, black collegestudents, HBCUs. You see them drafting
these resolutions standing with Palestine, oftennot really understanding some of what we're talking

(48:37):
about here tonight, the depth ofthe reality of the situation, and how
Israel's enemies have always been great innumber, and as it says in Psalm
eighty three, have always sought confederacywith each other. They've always tried to
gather together for the purpose of destroyingIsrael. And encouraged pastors and the young

(48:57):
people as well. They're listening.Do not allow the enemy to use you
as a tool that's attempting to destroyIsrael. Is it a complex thing?
Yes? Does a peace Do THEOneed to be worked out? Yes?
Between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians. The United States can't force it.
United Nations can't force it. Thishas to be something that comes together.
But in the midst of that,we must know that as we're praying for

(49:22):
the peace of Jerusalem, as theWord of God says in two, that
means we're also concerned that the Palestinianshave the leadership that they need. The
PLO has not been a friend ofthem. Commas is not good, but
they have been taking advantage of thesepeople for decades. So we want there
to be peace in the region.I want to encourage the Black leaders as

(49:43):
you're speaking to it, get moreinformation about the situation, understand what's happening,
and then go visit, go tothe land, go to Israel and
talk to the people going. Weplans Pastor McDonald's gonna be coming with us,
hopefully later on this spring. Aswe are planning these things, because
we want people to go and seethe land and up to Arabs and Jews
and Christians and Muslims and everyone therein the region, so that they can

(50:07):
understand that as you're praying for thepeace of Jerusalem, as the Word of
God says, you're also informed aboutwhat's really happening in the land, so
that the enemy does not deceive ormanipulate you listen. That is very powerful.
You know, I was asking thatquestion where do we go from here?
And I can just hear, youknow, of the word of the

(50:29):
Lord, just saying pray, pray, pray, pray, and I'm going
to I can Chronicle seven fourteen.It says, if my people, which
are called by my name, shallharmer themselves and pray and seek my faith
and turn from their wicked ways,then will I hear from heaven and will
forgive their sins, and will healthe land, heal the land. I

(50:49):
just believe that, you know,Pastor Washington, even as we're clothing tonight,
you know, you might want togive us, you know, some
directives that we as a Christian peoplecan pray concerning this issue in Israel.
And it doesn't have to be many, but just kind of give us a
little dot dies of these things,because I really believe that this is another
form of educating people so that youknow, they're not so much being misled

(51:15):
by what they're seeing in the media, because the medium, uh, it
sends a different message sometimes and wehave to make sure that you know,
we are doing the research, we'rereading we're making sure that we're getting that
word and we're standing, you know, and it's what the word of God
is. It pertains to Israel andmaking sure that we are praying for the
people of Jerusalem. So's we close. I'm just going to ask you if

(51:37):
you, you know, close usout with some prayer directives to concern in
Israel. And I just want tojust say, this has been a powerful
time in God tonight. And man, I you know, I'm going to
actually come back again because I don'tthink you're done, because we just basically
kind of scrape the surface of allthe knowledge that you do have. And

(51:57):
I do believe that as we arebeing heard all across nations, this is
an opportunity for us to sow seedsof the Word of God so that you
know, uh, that could begreater understanding. And I said again,
it's the proverb for subject says,wisdom is the principal thing. Therefore get
wisdom and with all that, gettingget understanding, get understanding. I believe
tonight that you know, you havedone a great job of presenting. But

(52:20):
like I said, I don't thinkit's over. But we're gonna, We're
gonna, We're gonna work it outfor right now. So if you can
close us out with some directives,that would be absolutely fantastic, and we'll
be done with the Lucius McDonald livingright by. Yes, sir, Yes,
sir, that sounds a good pass. I'll do that. I'll pray
and then I'm giving it the pointsas well. And i just want to
say to everyone, there's three thingswe usually tells as we're praying. Number
one for the piece of piece ofJerusalem and recognizing that He that keepeth Israel.

(52:45):
Now this slumbers nor sleeps. God'spromises to Abraham and his seed are
forever right. So we want tomake sure that we regul God is not
double, He's not casting his allthe size. So we're praying that God
continued to preserve as he says topray for the peace of Jerud, and
we're praying over Israel. And thensecondly, we're also praying for everyone impacted
in the land. If we talkabout the airb Palestinians, the human rights

(53:07):
that are there, there's a bunchof there's a lot of abuses that are
happening there at the hands of theseterrorist organizations. And then thirdly, as
Christians we recognize also that there's aChristian genocide happened, thousands of Christians being
killed, millions this place, inplaces like Nigeria and Sudan, and the
Word of God tells us to prayfor them as well. Why do I

(53:28):
mention that in the context of Israel, Because in Israel you have Christians,
Jews, Muslims living in religious freedom, able to worship, and they're surrounded
by nations where that's not true.So we're also praying for our Christian brothers
and sisters. So, Father,we bless your name, and we give
you thanks and praise for your goodnesstowards Thank you for Pastor McDowell. Thank
you for this blessed time that you'vegiven us here on this podcast. Thank

(53:50):
you for his ministry, his homeand his family and all the ventures which
you called him and Pastadana and evenright now, God, these things that
we have discussed. I pray thatthose that are listening that you're annoying will
become come, come upon them andstrengthen and minister to them. We do
indeed, as the Psalmists told usto, we pray for the peace of
Jerusalem, and you said they wouldprosper that love thee. We want to

(54:13):
God, be found prospering in Youand loving what you told us to love.
You told Abraham that you have blessedthose who bless him, curse those
who curse him, and through himthe nations of the earth will be blessed.
And we also pray for all thatare in the region. We recognize
that they're Palestinians in Gaza, Palestiniansin the West Bank who are suffering,
particularly at the hands of their leaders. God, we want them to be

(54:34):
healing in the land, even aspastors said, so we're trusting and believing
you for that. God. Andthen lastly, God, we recognize,
unfortunately, as you said, thatin these days perilous times coming, there
are those who are a part ofradical sect of Islam and other iterations,
if you will, that are Godkilling Christians, killing Jews in those areas,

(54:55):
killing other Muslims in those areas.God, there's so much death and
destruction that's happening. But your wordsays for about our Christian brothers and sisters
in particular, and Hebrews thirteen andthree, remember those that are in change,
as if we were bound with them. God. So we pray for
them. God, even now,we thank you that we have religious freedom
in our nation. No nation isperfect, but we thank you for the

(55:17):
liberty that we have here. Wecan worship, we can sing, we
can gather. So we give youthanks and praise. But we also recognize
that we are to be grateful forthat God, but also be praying for
our brothers and sisters and around andChina and Nigeria and Sadan who are suffering
because of the name of Jesus.God. Would you strengthen them, encourage
them and bless them. God.Now, God, thank you again for

(55:38):
this time on tonight, bless thepeople, blessing the rest of this week,
their home and their families. They'redown sitting and they're uprising God,
and we trust you and believe youfor it. And we thank you God,
and that it's done in the mightyname of Jesus. And we thank
you God. This is the Mightyname of Jesus. Well, there you
have it. This is the LuciusMcgod Living Right podcast tonight. We're so

(55:59):
glad that you joined us us.We want you to know that we also
thank God for our guest speaker tonight, and that is Pastor of Dumasani Washington
from the Institute of Black Solidarity withIsrael. Wonderful information, but let me
tell you it doesn't stop here tonightbecause we're going to continue. Jump right
on back in on next Monday thesame time eight o'clock be with us on

(56:19):
the Lucia's mcgowell podcast. Thank youso much, Luci