Season 2: Episode 5 - How to be a better listener with Stan Slovin

Episode Transcript

(00:13):
Hello everyone, and welcome back toLondon's Leadership Podcast today with Stan Slavin,
who has been in wealth management forover thirty years. A cool fun fact
is that he's also in a rockand roll band from Chicago. He tours
around the States teaching leadership and herecently wrote a book called Better Listening,
The Secret to Improving Your professional andPersonal Life. So we're just gonna have

(00:35):
a little conversation about what it takesto be a better listener. But before
we do that, Stan, whydon't you tell us a little bit about
yourself and how you came to writeyour book Better Listening. Yeah. Well,
then, first off, thank youso much for having me, you
know on the London Leadership Podcast.I'm just looking forward to our great conversation.
Oh boy, how I wrote thisbook, you know, goes back

(00:56):
about ten fifteen years ago and Ithought, you know this, this is
needed. You know, we're allgood listeners, but the key is we
could all be like much better listeners. You know, the world is busy,
we're multitasking, our attention spans arevery very short, and we're constantly
distracted. You know, our patientssys then in conversations even today like politics,

(01:17):
and culture, religion and economy.There's so many things moving around with
different views that we all kind ofwanted to be, you know, a
better listener. And what I realized, what I wanted to write this book,
is that we're just cutting each otheroff all the time. You know,
we're just not letting you know,each other finish, or we're thinking
about what we want to say,you know, when the other person is
still talking, and almost like we'rejust like kind of hijacking, you know,

(01:40):
the conversation. So I thought,you know, this is such an
important area to have more impactful conversations. We want to have more meaningful dialogues,
we want to have deeper discussions andwe and I thought, not only
would this help professionally, which isin my world wealth management, to have
relationships that we really hear what peopleare feeling and what they want to share,

(02:00):
but also in personal relationships, youknow, And that's why I wrote
the book Better Listening. Well,that's really interesting, and listening is something
that I've tried to really work onand improve. But I realized that I
still have such a long way togo. And my friends who know me
are listening to this thinking, oh, it's good that he's doing this because

(02:21):
he needs to. He needs towork on that himself and I and I
realized just what you mentioned there,like interrupting people and thinking about what we're
going to say while they're still speaking. And I realized just before we started,
I have that thing where I like, I don't know what it is,
it's like something that jumps in ormaybe it is that my attention,

(02:42):
I lose the attention or but Ireally want to be a better listener because
I think listening really shows people thatyou value them. I think listening well
shows people that you appreciate their thoughtsshows listening, I think really helps you
grow as a person too, becauseit helps you to fully learn from the

(03:06):
voices that are around you. Andif we're if we struggle to listen,
I think we can just stay fixedon what we've done or what we've always
known and not really be able toadapt because we don't take things in.
So this is something that I reallytried to work on and I'm still working
on. So I'm really excited aboutthis. So I understand. One of
the things that we like to doat the London's Leadership Podcast is make it

(03:29):
super practical So what would you saywould be like three of your key takeaways
from your book on how we canall become better listeners. Well, I
would start by saying, you know, and again like there's so many you
know tips. You know, there'sthe act of listening tip, which is
being in the present, you know, focusing really trying to get distractions away,

(03:52):
putting that self one way, notlooking at the TV or looking around,
but really focusing on that person that'stalking once because they they feel then
that you care about what they're saying. The eye contact, the leaning in,
the nodding a little bit, justthat's your active listening. And that's
one area. The reflective listening tip, which is even more important, is

(04:13):
going through the process of not beingin such a response mode. So if
you said to me, what aresome tips, Oh, let me tell
you the tips, you know.But if I said to you know,
Fernando, when you say tips,help me understand that a little bit more,
because obviously you want some tips.You know, that's a big area.
Tell me more and you may say, well, no tips, you
know that could help the listeners bebetter. So one, you always want
to reflect, okay, when aperson's talking to you, before you respond.

(04:36):
So let's think about this. Pushthat response mode later to the conversation.
Don't be a response mode person.Okay, step back and pause,
Step back and say okay, soit sounds like you want to talk about
tips, So tell me more aboutthat so I can really be clear.
And that's your reflection and clarification.And once they tell you really what they're
feeling, the better listener adds somethingin there that is so unique. It

(05:00):
makes these leaders from good leaders togreat leaders, and that is empathy.
If I had one thing to takeaway and today, we need to have
more empathy in our conversations. Wewant to hear what they're feeling. We
want to really listen and let themdeep, you know, just deepen that
conversation, empty their bucket. Wewant to you know, we want us
to respond by putting on that supercape of solution. Let me tell you

(05:24):
what I think, Let me helpyou with the problem, let me show
you what you know. They don'twant that, They just want to be
heard. Sometimes they just want tovent, and we are so quick to
respond. Sometimes it's even a greatquestion. Here's a tip. Hey,
do you want me to listen towhat's going on? In how you had
a hard day or things at schoolbad, or of friends having an issue,
or do you want me just tolisten you know you want my response

(05:45):
and a couple of thoughts, ordo you want me just to listen and
they'll tell you As opposed to youknow what, I really didn't want you
to solve my world's problem. Ijust wanted you to listen to me.
You know. So three tips rightthere, active listening being the present to
reflective listening. So you want toreflect first when you're talking to someone.
You want to clarify to make surethat you're understanding it. You want to

(06:06):
show empathy so that you know thatyou're really getting them to show what they're
feeling. And then you check in, okay, what else? And then
and then go into your response,and there your response is more meaningful.
They appreciate you listen, You appreciateyou listened, and everyone's ta happier in
the conversation. That makes sense,Yeah, really good. Just as you

(06:28):
were as you were talking, Iwas trying to take in what you were
saying and not thinking of a response. But one of the things I heard
as I was also learning about this, was this technique called the ear technique.
So and I think you described itexplore. So somebody like is talking
to you about something, instead ofjumping in assuming you've understood what they've said,

(06:50):
just asking them a few more questionsto really get to the core of
what they want to say. So, oh, you want to know about
tips about listening, Tell me whatkind of tips you're looking for? Why,
why are you looking for or whylistening? And then just getting to
that explore And then I think theother thing that then acknowledging what they've said.
And I think you did that sowell just before we started you and

(07:13):
with you, I think what I'venoticed that's good is that it doesn't seem
rehearsed. Some of the things thatI've found difficult with listening is that Okay,
oh right, hold on, Ineed to do this, this,
this, And then when people I'mengaging with people, I'm trying to be
an active listener, so I'm nodding, I'm smiling, and then if they
feel as though, wait, areyou listening to me? It feels like

(07:34):
you're not. It feels like you'renot quite heavy because I'm trying to do
it all, but I'm not actuallythere. If that makes sense. Well,
then I'll your crazy story roll back. A father CEO sends me and
says, hey, Stan, Iread your book. Okay, I'm a
CEO. I'm on a plane.I'm reading it. Thanks for the great
tips whatever is, but that's notthe review. I come home to the

(07:55):
dinner table with my daughter. Mydaughter tells me about her crazy problems of
the day, and I'm about tojump in and give her parental pontification.
Okay, I'm gonna tell her howto sound. And I stopped, and
I just paused, and I saidto her, tell me a little bit
more, because it sounds like youhad some issues today. Help me understand
that more, or tell me alittle bit more about that. So remember

(08:18):
good open ended questions, right,you know, we all know about it,
but we've got to beet back tothe basics. More open ended questions.
So he says to her, Okay, so it sounds like this,
you know, tell me a littlebit more. He shared some empathy.
Listen, a lot of people havethis. She feels good, he says
to her. What else? Shegoes on for fifteen minutes, gets up
from the dinner table, turns around, hugs or down, and says that

(08:39):
thank you for finally listening to me, because we're in this response mode society
that we have to respond so quickly, and people are really asking us to
just pause, take a step back, hear what they're saying, get a
deeper meaning, empathize with them,and move you know, I'll real quickly,
leadership, just to move it first. Second, leaders, okay,

(09:01):
have a really hard time because theyhave a hard time really being great listeners.
They're good listeners, but there's agreat quote that says some people listen
to respond versus listening to understand.Good leaders listen to respond. Great leaders
listen to understand. They want tohear what their employees are, the project

(09:22):
or who they're working with. Theywant feedback. They want them to know
that their opinion is value. They'lleven say to them, hey, listen,
what can I do to hear moreabout what you're working on so that
I can make sure that we're clearabout what we're trying to accomplish. And
this great leader said, once,you know, if every day I know
that anything I say to someone,I am not going to learn anything.

(09:43):
So as long as that's the case, I might as well listen a little
bit more. And that's really whereyou know, the leadership part of listening
is so crucial today because we're tryingto get our agendas. The leaders are
trying to get their agendas, pushtheir agenda, get it done, do
it how they want, when inreality, if they just step back a
little bit, they will see thatthey have such a wealth of knowledge and

(10:07):
the assets that they're working with otherpeople, and these people have great,
great you know, intel and intellectand want to give back. We just
have to give them more of achance. Yeah, given them more of
a chance. And I think,I think, what that? What that?
What that father did? In yourstories? It is so it's so
it sounds so simple just asking whatelse or because I think in that it's

(10:31):
like, so I was saying,explore, acknowledge and then respond. But
even the acknowledged part is just statingback to the person what you've heard.
It's something so simple, but actuallyit takes a lot of strength to do
because for some reason, it justfeels like in the moment, it just
feels it feels like it's forced.But it's such a powerful thing to do.

(10:54):
Like I've been in conversation where Ithink, oh, I need to
just acknowledge. Let me just phrasewhat I've heard to the person, And
it could take me one or twoseconds to say that, but for some
reason in the moment that feels sohard to do that, I'll just jump
straight to respond. But if Iwere to just just pull myself back for

(11:18):
those two seconds and acknowledge what they'vesaid to the point that they say yes,
that's almost they not along like yes, that's what I said, that
gives you the permission to then respond. And I think what you said earlier
was really good, is like andsometimes it's even helpful to I heard this
in I think it's a book thatjust came out called Supercommunicators, which was

(11:39):
like do you want to be helped? Do you want to be hugged?
Or do you want to be heard? And sometimes when you after acknowledging someone,
you could even ask like sometimes whenI'm speaking to a friend of mine,
I never quite know what she wantswhen she speaks to me, So
I think it's sometimes helpful to say, Okay, do you want me to
just hug? Do you just needto me to empathize and hug you?

(12:01):
And I'm like, oh, doyou need to be helped? Do you
want me to give you a suggestionor do you simply just want me to
listen and it will. Yeah.And I think a lot of people want
all of those, but they don'thave a chance to share that. I
mean, how many times do wehear a story where someone says something like,
oh my god, you need ahug. Well, I don't know
if you need a hug, becauseI just responded so quickly without really digging

(12:22):
deeper. And I think that youbring up great you know, this exploring
knowledge is so powerful, you know. But what's interesting is that what you
said is we want to respond sogreatly, but if we just step back
for a second and we just again, this is a great takeaway also a
tip move yourself away from surface respondingand go deeper. So we are a

(12:43):
society that if we hear something,we respond. Okay, if we are
in a conversation with friends, wejump in. In fact, the conversation
gets louder and louder and louder becauseeveryone's jumping in. No one's taking a
pause. So we're all on asurface respond society. And and what people
are saying, they're crying to beheard, is move it down further.
With those clarifications, with that acknowledging, exploring with the you know, you

(13:07):
know, helping someone, you know, hearing someone, a hugging someone.
We want to know more so thatwe know which one do they really need,
you know. And again I'll goback to the leadership because I think
that you know, this is abig problem right now. You know,
the number one complaint, you knowis a person says, you know,
you're not listening to me. Okay, you're just not getting this, like

(13:30):
you're not hearing me. I mean, how many times do we go to
a dinner conversation right with a fanwith a bunch of couples. We're sitting
around and someone starts a story andthey're telling the story about their kids or
a restaurant, and someone jumps says, no, no, no, it
wasn't it wasn't there. It wasactually you know on the West End.
Okay it was it wasn't there,and go, okay, well whatever,
anyways, it was a great,big restaurant. No it wasn't a big
resturent. And you say, like, wait, do you want to tell
the story? Is obviously you keepinterrupting me and you're not letting me,

(13:56):
you know, finish. And thisis and this creates hurt. It's not
just hurt on a professional standpoint,it's heart on a personal This is where
you know, parents and children today, you know, have a hard time
communicating because everyone's just jumping into responding, Whereas if we just kind of step
back a little bit and said,you know, help me understand that a
little bit more, or you know, it seems to me that this is

(14:16):
really important to you. It's havinga major fact. I want to understand
this more. Okay, And bythe way, we don't have to agree.
We could agree to disagree, andwe don't have to you know,
listen on the defense. You know, they say that a person will never
change another person's strong opinion, Butthe funny part is they're not going to
change yours either. So if that'sthe case, let's have a more respectful

(14:37):
dialogue and let's hear what the otherperson is saying. Let's kind of get
to the root of it, letthem empty their buckets, give some empathy,
and then you'll get invited back tothe Thanksgiving table the next year.
You know, Yeah, yeah,I was just I was just just thinking
about what you were saying. Ofif I heard you correctly of just having

(15:00):
to slow down, and we're inthis response society that all the all our
kind of like conversations are just responseresponse response, but we're not getting to
to really the root of the issueas leaders but also in our family relationships.
So what you said, I thinkthat most of the complaint is that

(15:24):
you're just not understanding what I'm tryingto say. And I think and as
I was hearing what you're saying,what I was most thinking of was when
I've met people who who do dothis, When I've when I've had those
encounters with leaders or friends who whoseem to just slow down when you're with

(15:50):
them, who seem to just reallytake an interest in who you are and
what you're saying, they really mightme and in some way, I really
there's something in me that thinks,oh, I want to be like you,
And why is that? Why isthat? Is it because they feel

(16:12):
comfortable and help me understand that itjust feels like they they they care.
I leave I leave the encounter feelingas though this person cares about me,
Whereas when I encounter someone who's likeme and who's response heavy, who's almost

(16:34):
like trying to do a million thingsat once. It makes me feel as
though they don't care enough about me. But I do care, but I
don't. It doesn't make people feelas though I care, And whether I
care or not, they don't feelas though I care, So I don't

(16:56):
care in their art like I itmight. My desire isn't being communicated,
so it's not effective. And Ijust think something as simple as just when
somebody's come to you, just toslow down for that thirty seconds, for
that one minute, for five minutesand just really say, just tell me,

(17:19):
what do you mean by that?Where's that coming from? It just
makes such a difference. But wesometimes don't want to sacrifice those five minutes.
But actually there's such an investment inthe future of all our relationships.
And most of the time, Ithink, just as you were saying that
as well. Sorry, when welook at these things, we think,
oh, I'm going to be abetter listener at work. I'm going to
be a better listener with my team. That's all good, But your team

(17:42):
aren't going to be there when you'reill or when you need to port your
family out. And sometimes we sacrificelistening well to our families trying to be
better leaders and listeners at work.But actually the people we need to be
better listeners with are the people whoare closest to us, are our wives
or our moms, or our dadsor siblings or who. But but we

(18:06):
sometimes think with them it can justbe response heavy, but actually with them,
it's when we need to really investthat time to slow down, to
empathize, to acknowledge and to andto and to really listen. I think,
but I struggle with all of this. That's why the fucking go better.
Like, hey, listen. Youknow what's interesting is I want to
go back to And it's funny becausewhen we are talking to our employees okay,

(18:30):
or when we're talking to someone inour family, you know another thing
that comes up, and that is, you know, where where in the
relationship do they finally realize that we'recaring about them? And that was one
of the things you said, Iwant to walk away. Well this is
the problem and this is where betterlistening or just the small tips can change,
like literally change. There's a greatquestion, great question I'll share with

(18:53):
the audience and with you, andthat is when you're talking to someone and
they're in a new relationship or let'ssay you're in a business and you're trying
to get a new client, orlet's say you're in a new friends group
or you're at an associate whatever isanything that you're just joining and you're trying
to get involved, and they wantto find out more about you, and
you want to find out more aboutthem. Here's a great question. What

(19:15):
is most important to you with regardsto a relationship with me working with you,
or with me being on your boardof directors, with me being on
the soccer you know, the soccerparents committee. What's most important to you
with the relationship with let's say someonedoing that. And what they do is
they look and say, well,I want someone who's professional, I want
someone who I can trust. Iwant someone who has good communication. And

(19:37):
we are so quick to come back, why I have a good communication,
you can trust to me? Okay, we want to respond, but actually,
what's a better part of that?After that question, what's most important
to you with regards to a relationshipwith let's say myself working on a project
or being part of this group.And the next thing is when they tell
you ask them okay, so whenyou say communication, help understand that more?

(20:00):
Well? We want someone who isable to well when you say trust,
well, the last person we hadreally didn't. Well, how does
that look? You know, howdoes that look moving forward? And then
finally the last thing is like,you know what, we want someone who
can be proactive in ideas. Okay, well that's a big area. Give
me a couple examples. And oncethey tell you what's most important to them,

(20:22):
you realize it's not most important toyou, and you create the whole
relationship knowing what is most important tothem, and that relationship gets stronger,
you have more productivity, the resultsare a lot faster and more efficient,
and you find out it's because youlisten. Going back to what you said,
you show that you cared what's mostimportant to them. That's a great

(20:44):
little question to, you know,have in your conference. If you're ever
in a social setting, religious asports setting with a kid, or a
company setting and you're about to gointo something new, stop and pause.
I love that, Fernando, Ilove that stop and pause, you know,
slow down and say, hey,before we get really involved, what's
most important to you with regards toour relationship with us working on this.

(21:07):
I'd love to hear that. Wow, Wow, what's most important to you.
I'm going to write that down.I'm going to start building that into
my conversations. Stan, I've reallyloved spending time with you today, and
I think i've I've learned so muchfrom you, which actually just speaking to
you, I can feel how mydesire to be a better listener kind of

(21:32):
like and my desire to care forpeople really getting I feel inspired to go
out and do this. Thank youso much for your time, Thank you
so much for your book, andI think your book is available on Amazon,
so anyone can go and buy itright now. Is anything else you'd
like to say? Stan? Now, first of all, thank you so
much for you know this is it'sfun having a meaningful dialogue, it's fun
having an impactful conversation, it's funhaving an interactive and even today, it's

(21:56):
a great example if you get chanceto read it, and you can go
on Amazon. It's just called BetterListening and it's great if you pick up
a nugget or if you pick upI'd love to hear, so please email
me do Better Listeningbook dot com.It's the website Better Listening Book at gmail.
Love to hear your thoughts most importantly, remember we're all good listeners.

(22:17):
We are, We could just allbe better listeners. So thank you so
much for having me. Thank youso much, and see you next time.
It's the Leadership Podcast.