August 13, 2024 • 22 mins
In this episode of the Milk Making Minutes, host Lo Nigrosh welcomes Lisa Villani from Empowered Birth Coaching to discuss the crucial differences between creating a birth and postpartum plan versus establishing birth and postpartum preferences. The conversation explores how terminology and mindset can influence the childbirth experience and why flexibility and education are key. They also delve into how these concepts can be applied to various stages of motherhood, emphasizing the importance of feeling empowered and informed. Whether you're pregnant, postpartum, or a seasoned parent, this episode offers valuable insights to support your journey.
00:00 Introduction: Are You Feeling How You Expected?
00:24 Meet Lisa from Empowered Birth Coaching
01:11 From Client to Collaborator: Lisa's Journey
01:43 The Empowered Pregnancy Podcast
02:38 Birth Preferences vs. Birth Plans
03:06 The Importance of Language in Birth Planning06:36 Communicating Your Birth Preferences
08:55 Empowerment Through Knowledge and Support
09:44 How Do You Want to Feel?
12:43 Parenting Beyond Birth: Daily Challenges and Joys
19:49 Philosophical Approach to Birth Preferences
21:17 Conclusion: Feeling Secure and At Ease
Book a lactation consultation today or reach out to be on the podcast! https://www.quabbinbirthservices.com/
To work with Lisa go to her website: https://www.empoweredbirthcoaching.com/
Head to Apple Podcasts or Spotify for more Milk Making Minutes episodes!
Make your voice heard on The Milk Making Community Group on Facebook!
To purchase books about breastfeeding, birth, or parenting that I love and help support the show, go here.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/lo-s-lactation-lab--5834691/support.
Follow Lo Nigrosh:
#lactationjourney #breastfeedingmoms #maternalhealth #postpartumtruths #supportmoms #newborn #newmom #newbaby #baby #pumpingmoms #breastfeeding #chestfeeding #humanmilkforhumanbabies
00:00 Introduction: Are You Feeling How You Expected?
00:24 Meet Lisa from Empowered Birth Coaching
01:11 From Client to Collaborator: Lisa's Journey
01:43 The Empowered Pregnancy Podcast
02:38 Birth Preferences vs. Birth Plans
03:06 The Importance of Language in Birth Planning06:36 Communicating Your Birth Preferences
08:55 Empowerment Through Knowledge and Support
09:44 How Do You Want to Feel?
12:43 Parenting Beyond Birth: Daily Challenges and Joys
19:49 Philosophical Approach to Birth Preferences
21:17 Conclusion: Feeling Secure and At Ease
Book a lactation consultation today or reach out to be on the podcast! https://www.quabbinbirthservices.com/
To work with Lisa go to her website: https://www.empoweredbirthcoaching.com/
Head to Apple Podcasts or Spotify for more Milk Making Minutes episodes!
Make your voice heard on The Milk Making Community Group on Facebook!
To purchase books about breastfeeding, birth, or parenting that I love and help support the show, go here.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/lo-s-lactation-lab--5834691/support.
Follow Lo Nigrosh:
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lo-nigrosh-16371495/
- Website: https://www.quabbinbirthservices.com/
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/quabbinbirthservices/
- Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2F54fe1szmemB9n7YUJgWv
- Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/los-lactation-lab/id1614255223
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@loslactationlab3967
#lactationjourney #breastfeedingmoms #maternalhealth #postpartumtruths #supportmoms #newborn #newmom #newbaby #baby #pumpingmoms #breastfeeding #chestfeeding #humanmilkforhumanbabies
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Do you feel how you expected to feel as you're
preparing for your birth or as you are in your
postpartum experience when you are feeding your baby. Are your
days filled mostly with feelings of contentment and ease or
are they filled with stress and anxiety about feeding your baby?
(00:24):
I am so delighted to share this conversation with Lisa
from Empowered Birth Coaching as we discuss the differences between
creating a birth and postpartum plan versus creating birth and
postpartum preferences, and why it's so important to distinguish between
(00:44):
these two things. This conversation, I think can be applied
to any part of motherhood. So welcome to the milk
making Minutes. I'm your host, Low Nigrash, an International Board
certified lactation consultant, a childbirth educator, and adula and I
on a mission to make feeding our babies that much
easier enjoy. So's so good to see you. If you
(01:08):
are feeling right, you could re okay. So after I
just leak to this, I think you know what today's topic.
Are you feeling the way that you're crying? First to
ask a collaborators and well it's not really fun. So
(01:31):
I can help figure out why podcast services dot cam
you really so tell me a little bit about podcast
when I going to talk about in persons what we're
going to do you live closing?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Okay, awesome, So anywhere you inspired me across the board,
please think insurance.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
So first helps you feel good about all of your
birth order myself.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Then I'm a birth worker.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Then I'm in the throat of trying to weep and
utilizing virtual support.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
That was just so helpful at the time.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
And now I'm following in your podcasting footsteps because I
really think that you were able to get messaging to
me that I otherwise wouldn't have been able to find.
And so I've started what I've called the Empowered Pregnancy Podcast,
and it's my way of getting information into the hands
(02:27):
of pregnant women, women trying to conceive, and postpartum moms
to talk about birth and birth planning and then what
it looks like to have the newborn.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
I thought that today it would be really interesting to
talk about the difference between birth preferences and a birth plan.
And before I get into my why, I would love
to know when you hear those two words, because we
might be coming at this from different pips what comes
(03:01):
to mind for each of those terms.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
In my work with my clients, I have actually started
to try to remove the word birth plan from my
vocabulary because I think language is important and the message
that I send I want to be really, really strategic.
So I've actually been referring to the traditional birth plan
(03:26):
as a birth map, because too often we get hooked
on an outcome, and I think that that does more
harm than good. So when you say the word birth
plan versus birth preferences, for me, I really want clients
(03:47):
and pregnant moms to think about it as a roadmap
with different directions, different places where they may come to
a crossroads.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
And have to make a decision.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
So I think that preferences are really important.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Because that is the education piece for me.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Why do we want to know this information because we
want to figure out what our preferences are, getting away
from that word plan so that we can be a
little more open minded and a little more detached from
the outcome.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
That's what kind of comes to mind right away when
you say that.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I know that when I, eleven years ago, was pregnant
with my first child, and I would use the term
birth plan with care providers. It was almost like they
weren't rolling their eyes, but I got this feeling like, yeah,
this first time mom thinks she's going to be able
to plan out something that's not planable. I know for me,
(04:51):
over the years, when I have worked with clients, either
as a doula or now usually as a lot tating consultant,
people are afraid to say what their hopes are because
if they say it out loud to other people and
it doesn't work out, it feels like a failure. Whereas
(05:14):
I almost get the attitude from people that if they
go into it saying, well, I'm just gonna hope for
the best that they think they won't have that feeling
of grief or failure if things don't go according to
the plan In air quotes, do you encounter that at all,
(05:34):
like that not even wanting to like almost like sticking
your head in the sand, not even wanting to know
what the choices are because you're afraid that if you
don't meet your goals then you'll you'll feel worse.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
I think a lot of moms can resonate with that.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I think that a big part of the resistance that
we feel, whether it's obvious or not from care provide
is because the plan is written out in a certain
way where it's like, if this doesn't happen, I'm not
going to cooperate or something to that effect, and that
(06:13):
is not the case. So I like to really.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Hone in on the communication piece.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
I want clients to have those preferences and the research
that backs those preferences in their head. So for me,
forget what's on the piece of paper. That's a communication tool,
So then it's one tool. So here's a thought. Oftentimes
my clients will say, I'm so surprised that my doctor
(06:40):
just like flew in in the last fifteen minutes of
my birth and they weren't really there for the duration
of my labor. And so here I spent all this
time making sure that my specific provider was on board
with my plan. However, I had to communicate that over
and over to all the other hospital staff.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
So having the in your head as well as on a.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Piece of paper, I think there's different advantages to having
those different scenarios, But it's about how do you communicate
those preferences.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Yes, and not just to your providers, to your partners,
to your in laws, to your du law right to
your lactation consultant. Yeah, So when I do prenatal consultations,
I start out with like, what are your fears, what
are your hopes? What are you wondering about? What worries you?
(07:33):
What are you thinking in terms of vaginal delivery versus
cesarean delivery. Sometimes I have a client who says, yeah,
I know already that my cesarean is scheduled on such
and such date, and these are the reasons I feel
good with that decision. And so then we say, okay,
so now we can focus your lactation preferences on knowing
(07:59):
that you are going to be welcoming your baby into
the world through a cesarean birth. Now, some clients go
in saying, you know, I really hope to have a
vaginal delivery, and then we talk about okay, so what
happens if you get to thirty nine weeks and you're
being told you need to induce? How do you feel
(08:19):
about that? And if they're like ever, then we might
talk about how that could or could not impact the
postpartum experience lactation, the cascade of interventions that can happen.
And then once they know that information, then they take
that back to their partner and they say or their
(08:42):
doula or their mother, and they say, Okay, this is
what I'm thinking about. Let's talk through how we feel
about this as a team so that then we are
ready for these discussions with our care provider. And I
think it just empowers people to feel more informed about
the options. So it's a way to say, I am
(09:06):
going to prepare as much as possible, knowing I can't
control the outcomes, so that by the time I have
my baby in my arms and it's three months postpartum,
four month postpartum, five months postpartum, I'm feeling like, yeah,
I took every next right step as it came, and
I felt empowered because I knew the possibility of what
(09:31):
could happen.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yeah, and knowing the possibilities, it takes work to find
that education and sort through it and decide how you
feel about it on a personal level. And one thing
that came to mind when you said all of these
questions that you ask, which are so valuable, is my
favorite question, which is how do you want to feel
(09:54):
if we're not attached to an outcome and we are
more concerned with that process and what we feel like
when we step away from it or look back on
it as an outsider or as in process, that is
really really important. M H.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
I love that, and I think almost everyone there's a
variety of feelings that people can have. They can feel ecstatic,
they can feel exhausted, they can feel proud, they can
feel uncertain, they can feel supported, they can feel unsupported.
But I think almost everyone who is to think about
(10:36):
this question in regards to the early postpartum period, they
want to feel as if they have done the very
best they could, regardless of what happened.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Absolutely, and for.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Different people though that it could be completely different outcomes.
But if they say, you know what, this scenario got
brought to me, and I made the best decision I
could given the information I had, and the information I
had was solid, that's when we don't have to deal
(11:14):
so much with that postpartum grief or that grief of
losing a breastfeeding experience that we wanted to have.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
I agree with that, and I think a lot of
what I talk about is asking for what you want.
So I think that if I asked the question, how
do you want to feel? You can also flip that
if it's easier to say. Here's what I don't want.
I don't want to feel manipulated. I don't want to
(11:45):
feel courced. I don't want to be talked down to.
I don't want to be dismissed. I don't want to
be told what to do in every situation because as
a mom, you are the only one that knows what
it's best for you and your baby most of the time.
And so I think that the birth plan on paper
(12:07):
becomes less and less important when we really center it
around that empowerment and being a part of every decision.
Like you said, there's literally no way that we could
know every twist in turn. And I'm convinced, after being
in this work for this period of time that that's intentional.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
We're not supposed to know. It's preparing us for that
postpartum period.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Right right, Yeah, that's so true. I was thinking about
when you were talking about, you know, asking the question,
how does this make you feel, that I could use
that more in my current life with a ten year
old and a six year old, Like I think about
how often I go through life feeling grumpy towards my kids,
(12:55):
feeling grumpy about getting dinner on the table, feeling grumpy
about the feelings they might be having. And when I
can stop and say, wait a minute, how do I
want to feel as a mom, and how do I
want my kids to feel as a part of my family.
I don't want grumpiness or anger or frustration to be
(13:17):
the primary mood that they think about when they look
back on their childhood. So if that's the way I
want to feel, I want to feel relaxed with my family.
I want to feel engaged with my family. I want
to feel joyful with my family. I want to feel
respected with my family. I want my kids to feel respected.
(13:41):
I want to have autonomy. I want them to have autonomy.
So if those are the feelings I want, what do
I need to change about the way I'm interacting? And
I can give a quick example. It is so easy
when our kids are like doing something that we're like,
oh my gosh, why you doing that? Like bringing in
a bowl of mud? Right, Like, let's say the kids
(14:04):
are out in the yard. This is real life at
my house. My six year old is like the messiest.
So let's say she's bringing in a huge bowl of mud.
My first response to her could be, oh my gosh,
get that out of the house. What are you doing, buddy?
If I can catch myself, I can stop, I can say,
(14:26):
whoopsh you're really working on something. I can give her
eye contact and make a smile to let her know,
like I enjoy you being around, I'm gonna smile at
you when I see you. And then I still might
not want mud in my house, but the mood might be,
let's get this back outside and you can show me
what you're working on, or you know, help her figure
(14:50):
out a way that she can still have her needs
met and I can have my needs met. And I
think this is same with flactation right door, or birth
or the postpartum experienced. If you want to feel relaxed,
if you want to feel at ease, if you want
(15:10):
to feel empowered, then what are the ways that you
need to change either the way you're thinking or what
you're doing, or who you're interacting with in order to
get to that feeling. And those are the things we
want to focus on in the birth preferences.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
I love how it all threads through. I wish that
I had been asked the question more, especially in those
early postpartum days. I wish someone had said, how do
you want to feel, because then I would have been
able to say, I'm struggling to ask for help, but
(15:51):
I know that this is how i'm feeling and this
is not how I want to feel, and I know
this is how I want to feel, but I don't
know how to make that happen. And then I could
have been inviting the help in to help me problem
solved and critical think.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
I just think that that is the common thread.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Sometimes it takes more support to get to that answer,
and it's a trial and error, so it's not always
going to work. Then we go back to the drawing board.
So getting the lactation support. Joining my Fierce mom of
Circle for postpartum new moms, like, whatever it is, you
(16:31):
shouldn't feel bad or guilty or shameful about asking for
that help.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Yeah, it's interesting. I just saw a prenatal client yesterday
and this is her essentially her second baby. She talked
about how needy her first child was and I started
to ask, what do you think you have sensory needs?
She's like, oh, yeah, he's two and a half. And
(16:58):
I was like, it's so funny in those early days
until we really get to know our child. We keep
trying to fix them. We talked a lot about this,
you and I because I had a very similar experience
to you sensory wise with my child, and until I
stopped and said, how do I want to feel with
my child? I want to feel connected. I want to
(17:20):
feel like I'm meeting their needs. I continue to try
to like fix sleep, fix feeding, fix you know, the clinginess.
And now I have a ten year old that still
wants me to lay down with him in bed while
he goes off to sleep, and I know I'm not
going to have an eighteen year old wanting that, and
(17:42):
so every night that I laid down with him, I'm
wondering is this going to be the last night? And
in the moment it's hard, But if I think about
how do I want to feel ten years from now,
I want to feel like, yeah, we did it. I
miss those days. They were hard, and I want to
(18:03):
feel connected to my child. So I'm going to choose
this hard thing right now and not every night can
I get there, but keeping the focus on how do
I want to feel now? And how do I want
to feel three months from now, a year from now,
five years from now, ten years from now is can
really help kind of focus in on what the right
(18:23):
choices are, and the right choices that you make might
be different than the right choices I make. Your right
choice might be you know what I want to feel
like I can connect with my partner and I will
connect with my child throughout the day, and I am
not going to lay down with a ten year old
And yeah, totally fine, you know, but you don't know
(18:43):
what those answers are going to be until you ask
yourself the question.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Yeah, and we don't want to get caught on an outcome,
whether it's prepping for birth or postpartum or ten years in.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
And we can pivot if we need to.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with that. Like you brought up.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Dinner and I would beg to go out on a
lemon sale. Lot of us don't love that we have
to come up with dinner ideas and the grocery shopping.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
I went from loving cooking pre maybe to now.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Every night I'm like, oh the hell am I gonna make?
Five years ago, you would have known me to make
everything from scratch using all these great nutrientsdense ingredients, And
now I'm like takeout would really put some ease into
my evening and I want to feel chill tonight with
(19:40):
my family. And that's just a pivot that I am
making in this season, and that's okay.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
I love that. Okay, So as we I think this
is a good philosophical way of approaching this, and I
don't actually think we have to get into the nitty
gritty of what it actually looks like to sit down
and create that birth preferences. Because if you are listening
to this and you are thinking I am pregnant or
(20:08):
I am in the early postpartum, and when I ask
myself how I want to feel, I am not there.
Then what we need to do is need to reach
out to Lisa for some empowered birth coaching, and you
need to reach out to me for some lactation consultation.
And I think we can both guarantee that we cannot
(20:32):
deliver specific outcomes, but we can help you get to
however you want to feel and help you pivot at
the right times to continue to feel the way that
makes you most happy and satisfied with your postpartum journey.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
I couldn't have set it better myself.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Awesome. Well, we'll have all of our links in the
show notes, and this will be going out on both
my podcast and yours, so I think we can add
in anything extra about specific links we can find awesome.
Thanks so much for taking this time to record with me.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Thanks Low bye.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
So there it is. Are you feeling the way that
you need to feel in order to fulfill the reason
you became a mother, the reason you decided to welcome
the child into your life? If not, working with somebody
who can help you figure out why things are difficult
(21:40):
can really help you to get to that next stuff
of feeling secure and feeling at ease with your family,
So please reach out. I am here to help you
feel good about all of your baby feeding choices. You
can find me at www dot cobbin birth Services dot com.
(22:04):
You can book right online. Most of the time, I
can get your business covered by insurance, so I can't
wait to see your name pop up on my calendar.
Do you feel how you expected to feel as you're
preparing for your birth or as you are in your
postpartum experience when you are feeding your baby. Are your
days filled mostly with feelings of contentment and ease or
are they filled with stress and anxiety about feeding your baby?
(00:24):
I am so delighted to share this conversation with Lisa
from Empowered Birth Coaching as we discuss the differences between
creating a birth and postpartum plan versus creating birth and
postpartum preferences, and why it's so important to distinguish between
(00:44):
these two things. This conversation, I think can be applied
to any part of motherhood. So welcome to the milk
making Minutes. I'm your host, Low Nigrash, an International Board
certified lactation consultant, a childbirth educator, and adula and I
on a mission to make feeding our babies that much
easier enjoy. So's so good to see you. If you
(01:08):
are feeling right, you could re okay. So after I
just leak to this, I think you know what today's topic.
Are you feeling the way that you're crying? First to
ask a collaborators and well it's not really fun. So
(01:31):
I can help figure out why podcast services dot cam
you really so tell me a little bit about podcast
when I going to talk about in persons what we're
going to do you live closing?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Okay, awesome, So anywhere you inspired me across the board,
please think insurance.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
So first helps you feel good about all of your
birth order myself.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Then I'm a birth worker.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Then I'm in the throat of trying to weep and
utilizing virtual support.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
That was just so helpful at the time.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
And now I'm following in your podcasting footsteps because I
really think that you were able to get messaging to
me that I otherwise wouldn't have been able to find.
And so I've started what I've called the Empowered Pregnancy Podcast,
and it's my way of getting information into the hands
(02:27):
of pregnant women, women trying to conceive, and postpartum moms
to talk about birth and birth planning and then what
it looks like to have the newborn.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
I thought that today it would be really interesting to
talk about the difference between birth preferences and a birth plan.
And before I get into my why, I would love
to know when you hear those two words, because we
might be coming at this from different pips what comes
(03:01):
to mind for each of those terms.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
In my work with my clients, I have actually started
to try to remove the word birth plan from my
vocabulary because I think language is important and the message
that I send I want to be really, really strategic.
So I've actually been referring to the traditional birth plan
(03:26):
as a birth map, because too often we get hooked
on an outcome, and I think that that does more
harm than good. So when you say the word birth
plan versus birth preferences, for me, I really want clients
(03:47):
and pregnant moms to think about it as a roadmap
with different directions, different places where they may come to
a crossroads.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
And have to make a decision.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
So I think that preferences are really important.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Because that is the education piece for me.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Why do we want to know this information because we
want to figure out what our preferences are, getting away
from that word plan so that we can be a
little more open minded and a little more detached from
the outcome.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
That's what kind of comes to mind right away when
you say that.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I know that when I, eleven years ago, was pregnant
with my first child, and I would use the term
birth plan with care providers. It was almost like they
weren't rolling their eyes, but I got this feeling like, yeah,
this first time mom thinks she's going to be able
to plan out something that's not planable. I know for me,
(04:51):
over the years, when I have worked with clients, either
as a doula or now usually as a lot tating consultant,
people are afraid to say what their hopes are because
if they say it out loud to other people and
it doesn't work out, it feels like a failure. Whereas
(05:14):
I almost get the attitude from people that if they
go into it saying, well, I'm just gonna hope for
the best that they think they won't have that feeling
of grief or failure if things don't go according to
the plan In air quotes, do you encounter that at all,
(05:34):
like that not even wanting to like almost like sticking
your head in the sand, not even wanting to know
what the choices are because you're afraid that if you
don't meet your goals then you'll you'll feel worse.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
I think a lot of moms can resonate with that.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I think that a big part of the resistance that
we feel, whether it's obvious or not from care provide
is because the plan is written out in a certain
way where it's like, if this doesn't happen, I'm not
going to cooperate or something to that effect, and that
(06:13):
is not the case. So I like to really.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Hone in on the communication piece.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
I want clients to have those preferences and the research
that backs those preferences in their head. So for me,
forget what's on the piece of paper. That's a communication tool,
So then it's one tool. So here's a thought. Oftentimes
my clients will say, I'm so surprised that my doctor
(06:40):
just like flew in in the last fifteen minutes of
my birth and they weren't really there for the duration
of my labor. And so here I spent all this
time making sure that my specific provider was on board
with my plan. However, I had to communicate that over
and over to all the other hospital staff.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
So having the in your head as well as on a.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Piece of paper, I think there's different advantages to having
those different scenarios, But it's about how do you communicate
those preferences.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Yes, and not just to your providers, to your partners,
to your in laws, to your du law right to
your lactation consultant. Yeah, So when I do prenatal consultations,
I start out with like, what are your fears, what
are your hopes? What are you wondering about? What worries you?
(07:33):
What are you thinking in terms of vaginal delivery versus
cesarean delivery. Sometimes I have a client who says, yeah,
I know already that my cesarean is scheduled on such
and such date, and these are the reasons I feel
good with that decision. And so then we say, okay,
so now we can focus your lactation preferences on knowing
(07:59):
that you are going to be welcoming your baby into
the world through a cesarean birth. Now, some clients go
in saying, you know, I really hope to have a
vaginal delivery, and then we talk about okay, so what
happens if you get to thirty nine weeks and you're
being told you need to induce? How do you feel
(08:19):
about that? And if they're like ever, then we might
talk about how that could or could not impact the
postpartum experience lactation, the cascade of interventions that can happen.
And then once they know that information, then they take
that back to their partner and they say or their
(08:42):
doula or their mother, and they say, Okay, this is
what I'm thinking about. Let's talk through how we feel
about this as a team so that then we are
ready for these discussions with our care provider. And I
think it just empowers people to feel more informed about
the options. So it's a way to say, I am
(09:06):
going to prepare as much as possible, knowing I can't
control the outcomes, so that by the time I have
my baby in my arms and it's three months postpartum,
four month postpartum, five months postpartum, I'm feeling like, yeah,
I took every next right step as it came, and
I felt empowered because I knew the possibility of what
(09:31):
could happen.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yeah, and knowing the possibilities, it takes work to find
that education and sort through it and decide how you
feel about it on a personal level. And one thing
that came to mind when you said all of these
questions that you ask, which are so valuable, is my
favorite question, which is how do you want to feel
(09:54):
if we're not attached to an outcome and we are
more concerned with that process and what we feel like
when we step away from it or look back on
it as an outsider or as in process, that is
really really important. M H.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
I love that, and I think almost everyone there's a
variety of feelings that people can have. They can feel ecstatic,
they can feel exhausted, they can feel proud, they can
feel uncertain, they can feel supported, they can feel unsupported.
But I think almost everyone who is to think about
(10:36):
this question in regards to the early postpartum period, they
want to feel as if they have done the very
best they could, regardless of what happened.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Absolutely, and for.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Different people though that it could be completely different outcomes.
But if they say, you know what, this scenario got
brought to me, and I made the best decision I
could given the information I had, and the information I
had was solid, that's when we don't have to deal
(11:14):
so much with that postpartum grief or that grief of
losing a breastfeeding experience that we wanted to have.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
I agree with that, and I think a lot of
what I talk about is asking for what you want.
So I think that if I asked the question, how
do you want to feel? You can also flip that
if it's easier to say. Here's what I don't want.
I don't want to feel manipulated. I don't want to
(11:45):
feel courced. I don't want to be talked down to.
I don't want to be dismissed. I don't want to
be told what to do in every situation because as
a mom, you are the only one that knows what
it's best for you and your baby most of the time.
And so I think that the birth plan on paper
(12:07):
becomes less and less important when we really center it
around that empowerment and being a part of every decision.
Like you said, there's literally no way that we could
know every twist in turn. And I'm convinced, after being
in this work for this period of time that that's intentional.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
We're not supposed to know. It's preparing us for that
postpartum period.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Right right, Yeah, that's so true. I was thinking about
when you were talking about, you know, asking the question,
how does this make you feel, that I could use
that more in my current life with a ten year
old and a six year old, Like I think about
how often I go through life feeling grumpy towards my kids,
(12:55):
feeling grumpy about getting dinner on the table, feeling grumpy
about the feelings they might be having. And when I
can stop and say, wait a minute, how do I
want to feel as a mom, and how do I
want my kids to feel as a part of my family.
I don't want grumpiness or anger or frustration to be
(13:17):
the primary mood that they think about when they look
back on their childhood. So if that's the way I
want to feel, I want to feel relaxed with my family.
I want to feel engaged with my family. I want
to feel joyful with my family. I want to feel
respected with my family. I want my kids to feel respected.
(13:41):
I want to have autonomy. I want them to have autonomy.
So if those are the feelings I want, what do
I need to change about the way I'm interacting? And
I can give a quick example. It is so easy
when our kids are like doing something that we're like,
oh my gosh, why you doing that? Like bringing in
a bowl of mud? Right, Like, let's say the kids
(14:04):
are out in the yard. This is real life at
my house. My six year old is like the messiest.
So let's say she's bringing in a huge bowl of mud.
My first response to her could be, oh my gosh,
get that out of the house. What are you doing, buddy?
If I can catch myself, I can stop, I can say,
(14:26):
whoopsh you're really working on something. I can give her
eye contact and make a smile to let her know,
like I enjoy you being around, I'm gonna smile at
you when I see you. And then I still might
not want mud in my house, but the mood might be,
let's get this back outside and you can show me
what you're working on, or you know, help her figure
(14:50):
out a way that she can still have her needs
met and I can have my needs met. And I
think this is same with flactation right door, or birth
or the postpartum experienced. If you want to feel relaxed,
if you want to feel at ease, if you want
(15:10):
to feel empowered, then what are the ways that you
need to change either the way you're thinking or what
you're doing, or who you're interacting with in order to
get to that feeling. And those are the things we
want to focus on in the birth preferences.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
I love how it all threads through. I wish that
I had been asked the question more, especially in those
early postpartum days. I wish someone had said, how do
you want to feel, because then I would have been
able to say, I'm struggling to ask for help, but
(15:51):
I know that this is how i'm feeling and this
is not how I want to feel, and I know
this is how I want to feel, but I don't
know how to make that happen. And then I could
have been inviting the help in to help me problem
solved and critical think.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
I just think that that is the common thread.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Sometimes it takes more support to get to that answer,
and it's a trial and error, so it's not always
going to work. Then we go back to the drawing board.
So getting the lactation support. Joining my Fierce mom of
Circle for postpartum new moms, like, whatever it is, you
(16:31):
shouldn't feel bad or guilty or shameful about asking for
that help.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Yeah, it's interesting. I just saw a prenatal client yesterday
and this is her essentially her second baby. She talked
about how needy her first child was and I started
to ask, what do you think you have sensory needs?
She's like, oh, yeah, he's two and a half. And
(16:58):
I was like, it's so funny in those early days
until we really get to know our child. We keep
trying to fix them. We talked a lot about this,
you and I because I had a very similar experience
to you sensory wise with my child, and until I
stopped and said, how do I want to feel with
my child? I want to feel connected. I want to
(17:20):
feel like I'm meeting their needs. I continue to try
to like fix sleep, fix feeding, fix you know, the clinginess.
And now I have a ten year old that still
wants me to lay down with him in bed while
he goes off to sleep, and I know I'm not
going to have an eighteen year old wanting that, and
(17:42):
so every night that I laid down with him, I'm
wondering is this going to be the last night? And
in the moment it's hard, But if I think about
how do I want to feel ten years from now,
I want to feel like, yeah, we did it. I
miss those days. They were hard, and I want to
(18:03):
feel connected to my child. So I'm going to choose
this hard thing right now and not every night can
I get there, but keeping the focus on how do
I want to feel now? And how do I want
to feel three months from now, a year from now,
five years from now, ten years from now is can
really help kind of focus in on what the right
(18:23):
choices are, and the right choices that you make might
be different than the right choices I make. Your right
choice might be you know what I want to feel
like I can connect with my partner and I will
connect with my child throughout the day, and I am
not going to lay down with a ten year old
And yeah, totally fine, you know, but you don't know
(18:43):
what those answers are going to be until you ask
yourself the question.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Yeah, and we don't want to get caught on an outcome,
whether it's prepping for birth or postpartum or ten years in.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
And we can pivot if we need to.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with that. Like you brought up.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Dinner and I would beg to go out on a
lemon sale. Lot of us don't love that we have
to come up with dinner ideas and the grocery shopping.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
I went from loving cooking pre maybe to now.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Every night I'm like, oh the hell am I gonna make?
Five years ago, you would have known me to make
everything from scratch using all these great nutrientsdense ingredients, And
now I'm like takeout would really put some ease into
my evening and I want to feel chill tonight with
(19:40):
my family. And that's just a pivot that I am
making in this season, and that's okay.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
I love that. Okay, So as we I think this
is a good philosophical way of approaching this, and I
don't actually think we have to get into the nitty
gritty of what it actually looks like to sit down
and create that birth preferences. Because if you are listening
to this and you are thinking I am pregnant or
(20:08):
I am in the early postpartum, and when I ask
myself how I want to feel, I am not there.
Then what we need to do is need to reach
out to Lisa for some empowered birth coaching, and you
need to reach out to me for some lactation consultation.
And I think we can both guarantee that we cannot
(20:32):
deliver specific outcomes, but we can help you get to
however you want to feel and help you pivot at
the right times to continue to feel the way that
makes you most happy and satisfied with your postpartum journey.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
I couldn't have set it better myself.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Awesome. Well, we'll have all of our links in the
show notes, and this will be going out on both
my podcast and yours, so I think we can add
in anything extra about specific links we can find awesome.
Thanks so much for taking this time to record with me.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Thanks Low bye.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
So there it is. Are you feeling the way that
you need to feel in order to fulfill the reason
you became a mother, the reason you decided to welcome
the child into your life? If not, working with somebody
who can help you figure out why things are difficult
(21:40):
can really help you to get to that next stuff
of feeling secure and feeling at ease with your family,
So please reach out. I am here to help you
feel good about all of your baby feeding choices. You
can find me at www dot cobbin birth Services dot com.
(22:04):
You can book right online. Most of the time, I
can get your business covered by insurance, so I can't
wait to see your name pop up on my calendar.
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