March 10, 2025 • 65 mins
Welcome back to the Lovers Lounge. It’s another night of deep dives and real talk.
Tonight, we’re peeling back the layers of Love, loss, and lessons learned. We are joined by special guest Farren Moore to unpack first heartbreaks, breaking generational cycles, and exploring how our childhoods. We dive into the power of sisterhood, the journey of motherhood, and the ways we can create healthier relationships for ourselves and the next generation.
Tap in now because Love Like This isn’t always easy, but it’s worth it!!
Social:@Milah_Mapp @Wh_orlandoroye @Hoochiemomanddad @farrenmoore
Come to our Couples Retreat: Couples Retreat
Watch here: Youtube
Patreon: Patreon.com/LoveLikeThis
Tonight, we’re peeling back the layers of Love, loss, and lessons learned. We are joined by special guest Farren Moore to unpack first heartbreaks, breaking generational cycles, and exploring how our childhoods. We dive into the power of sisterhood, the journey of motherhood, and the ways we can create healthier relationships for ourselves and the next generation.
Tap in now because Love Like This isn’t always easy, but it’s worth it!!
Social:@Milah_Mapp @Wh_orlandoroye @Hoochiemomanddad @farrenmoore
Come to our Couples Retreat: Couples Retreat
Watch here: Youtube
Patreon: Patreon.com/LoveLikeThis
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Like this, what's goody y'all? Yo?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I don't know why I do that, but Mila says,
I am such a fucking bird, because I'll.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Be starting to park what's goody y'all? Yo?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
One episode I said, what's goody y'all? Welcome back to
another episode.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Orlando, I'm a bird at nature.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Just saying everything, yo, the pigeon, the New York bird,
right the funk. I don't know, I don't know I
do that and I keeping with the mic when I
start the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
I don't know why I.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Used to do that. Now I just I try to.
I'm one of the people like let me sit on
my hand, because.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
What do I do on my head? Right? What do
I do with?
Speaker 3 (00:49):
It's gonna be fine?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
No, no here, Bobby oh Man, welcome, welcome. Well, first,
let me welcome the beautiful, the wonderful Aaron herself. Please,
if you have anything else, introduce yourself as please go.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
This is you. I'm happy to have you here.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
You are going to be leading off our men women's
version of the Men in Love.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Serious, so the Women in Love series.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
And you know, when I was doing this series where
I decided I want to sit down and talk to
the men that I know and find out the origin
of their love story, and just just hearing and learning
more about how we are all so different but also
so similar with our black men as far as like
our upbringing around love and like how it like sits
(01:46):
with us right now. I realized that I needed an
update of like women these days, like of like women
in their more mature phase. I didn't really have it
so much when I was a kid, Like my mom wasn't.
I don't think it was a very uh loving figure
(02:06):
outside of like how she viewed loved to like my
dad or one of my dad. And then as I
got older, I would listen to my friends and my
homegirls and stuff like that, and then I feel like
at some point I was like, Okay, I think I
got it really.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Right, right right.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
But I'm realizing now, at this tender age of thirty three,
that I might need to have more conversations about women
now that I'm getting closer to marriage. Yeah, why nobody
likes my rollout?
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Yeah, he's like, maybe it's going to be this date
and he gave no update. No, I think it didn't
what happened.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
But I'm realizing that as I'm getting closer to marriage,
I need to probably have more conversations with grown women
in essence or with in the realm of real love
and their origin of their love and how it just
like operates and shows up for them these days. So
(03:08):
thank you, thank you for calling up. And honestly, you're
one of the You're one of the people who I
may not talk to as often, but I feel comfortable
speaking to you as if like I just spoke to you.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Yes, listen, you saw. I was like my stomach her,
you're making soon hear me song.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
You snum occur, I got to boom perfect. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
My my origin story is a a little a little
weird in the way that I saw all the ways
I did not want to be mm hmmow, and I
took it from there.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Yeah, really, I saw a lot of things, and it
was only in my immediate family because outside of like
my actual mom and dad, everybody around me was like affectionate,
showing love to some degrees, you know, black people grow
up Black people in the nineties, like to only some degree.
That's showing something, right, But as far as like the
(04:13):
tremosual relationship between my mom and my dad, I'd be.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Saying that word a lot. I don't know it's a
real word.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
You're doing it, you're doing it so good.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
But this tremosous relationship that my mom and my dad have,
I wasn't. It wasn't what was showing me love. But
I would get love from like aunts and uncles, and
I had a big big families and aunts and uncles,
cousins like family members. They're like, whoa, this is great,
and then I'll go back home. My mom has stressful
(04:43):
last But what was it like for you in your
household growing up as far as like love and marriage, so.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
That it did not exist in my house much like
to hear it did not exist at home so much.
I I think I saw my mom dates, but they
were like not even serious because she had been abused
(05:12):
as a child, so she was very very strict about
having men around her girls and being a single mom
of two women, she was just like kind of swore
off dating for the most part. So I did. Yes,
I have an older sister, so she pretty much like
swore off dating for the most part, and so I
(05:36):
didn't really see a relationship modeled, which is crazy because
it kind of helped in the way that now I
see the work that has to be put into like
worthy relationships, no matter what the dynamic is, it's all
(06:00):
the same. If it's important to you, then you need
to nurture it. If it's not, then you let it go.
Like it's is basically that simple. So you still need
to communicate, You still need to show interests, be supportive,
like all the whether you're my sister, my mom, dad, husband,
(06:21):
like the things that you have to put into relationships
are pretty much the same, very.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Much so true. It's like all the foundational.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Yes, so yeah, not having it and just seeing like
just seeing it done in a less than like effective
or even meaningful way. It was like, that's not what
I want.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
It's so interesting that you say that it was helpful
because we meet mel and I.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
We had a friend and have a friend.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Who she she wouldn't She said that she wouldn't date
or she wouldn't bring her dates around her kid because
she wants her child to see her with somebody, not
necessarily like just the dating part, because what if they
come around and they're not there anymore. And what we
told her was, you know, maybe maybe your child should
(07:17):
see that, they should see all the dynamics that come
with dating or with being with somebody, and they should
see like, you know, you can meet people and you
can have any time and experience with them, and then
it can go away and it is perfectly fine.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
So it's I see, that's interesting that to say that
it worked out like your mom not having like people
around that much, right, and you learn it in a.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Different way, is so crazy. I just realized, like, what
because she didn't give it there? She like I seen
it just kind of a lacklusterness in other areas because
(08:00):
she wasn't giving it there. It's usually people like try
to balance it, try to overcompensate somewhere else. She was
like just not really giving her all anywhere. And it's like, wow,
this area of her life needs just as much attention
as this one, yeah does, and she ain't given neither
(08:20):
one of us much so in the way of like
just really nurturing the relation, Yeah, the relationship, saying and
being like truly to her core supportive. It was more
obligatory actions like this is just what I'm supposed to do,
(08:42):
not coming from a loving place. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
How was that with like your relationship with your was
it just you your sister and your mom mostly growing up?
Speaker 1 (08:52):
How is that with like going with your sister.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
My sister and I like legit hated each other until
I was like in college. Yes, because because she she
was just like angry about like just the situation. My
dad wasn't there anymore, like he left when I was
(09:21):
really young. That well, they split when I was really young,
and so she just like just grew up angry and
so we did not get along. And then once like
both of us, once I reached adulthood with her and
she had to do some growing of her own, we
(09:41):
just kind of came together and was like, we're gonna
do this different. We see so much drama between the
my mom, aunts and uncles and stuff and my grandmother,
Like it's just drama and bitterness, and it was like, man,
we're breaking that fucking cycle. Like we can't. So we
started actually working on our relationship as sisters and just
(10:07):
being intentional about like really stealing our bond because it
was it was not modeled for us, which is why
I was like it kind of helped not having it
because it made me helped me realize like, oh, this
is a choice, this is intention this is like how
(10:29):
how a relationship, a loving relationship is supposed to be cultivated, and.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
You saw the absence is an absence in it, and
you made you recognize how important it.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Is find the neede feeling need, I guess feeling it.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
And I asked about your sister, because you know, it's
pretty important for a child, a little girl, her mom
to have a certain type of relationship, and then also
important for her like her and her sister to have
like a specific type of relationship. And so to hear
that you're growing up in one space where your mom
(11:03):
may not be what your mom was showing or not
showing something, or having a lacking of love in one place,
which may not seem to be the most positive, and
then also growing up.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Hitting your sister but also may not seem to be
a positive.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
It's like, well, that's a very interesting I supposed to
grow up in as little girl, Yes, the youngest.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Yeah, and it's it was just like generational stuff. My
mom and my grandmother did not get along at all,
and so that and my mom was the oldest of
like thirteen kids or some shit like that. Not all
I made it, I forget the total whatever, but my
(11:44):
mom was the oldest in her they did, they didn't
get along, and then my mom and her oldest kid
didn't get along. And so like I literally was like
remember trying to feel that that daughter's space for my mom,
trying to be that like, oh she she not good
(12:07):
in school, then let me, you know, let me exactly,
you know, on the roll again, like you know, oh
she you know, joined the sport and quick, well I'm
joining and I'm gonna stay in it until forever, like
you know. So I just found myself doing that. So
(12:29):
it was, Yeah, it was a weird, weird space.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Do you ever feel like you're yourself like trying to
fill your mom's love space.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
I feel like I did for a short time. But
because I I was not I didn't not swear off men,
not even once I had had my daughter, I didn't
swear them off. So because I was still dating and
I still had partners and sometimes every once in a
(13:02):
while in a relationship, I still had to like keep
that line there. And that's like also helped me realize
like how much like anger and like unresolved issues were
still there because of the energy that she would give
me and my relationships. And so it was a lot
(13:25):
of seeing, seeing what could be done better. Yeah, yeah,
I just had this conversation with my daughter a couple
of days ago.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
But yeah, oh, I guess that's a good.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
A good segue into well, now, it's a much different
relationship with you and your daughter now? And how would
you say it's different between you and your mom in
comparison to your daughter and you.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
I operate like because my feelings are like my actions
pretty much display my how I feel. To my core,
I can't hide it. If I don't like you, my
body will literally reject your presence. If I fuck with you,
(14:17):
then I'm going to walk past you and I'm going
to hug you like we like that. It's the and
everywhere in between, Like it just it's literally like levels
to how I unfold with people. Yeah, So my relationship
with my daughter, even from a baby, like once I
(14:40):
realized like, yo, I love this kid. Because it took
a little while. Wasn't immediate it immediate for everybody. It
took it took a few weeks. But once I was like, yo,
I love this person. Uh you know, I was all
in And so the decisions I made what I did,
(15:02):
it wasn't out of oh, I got this kid, let
me take care of it. It was out of I love.
I love this baby. So even growing up I did
not have a voice as a child, I owe us.
So I overcompensated with my kid because I'm like, I
had thoughts and feelings and nobody asked me anything as
(15:23):
a child. So from the moment my kid was able
to speak, I'm like, what do you want? You know,
down to if I'm going out for the night, before
I arrange a sitter, I'm like, where do you want
to go? Or this person's available? Are you okay? Because
(15:45):
I was in situations where I was not, but I
didn't have a say in it. So it's just and
now it's like it has been me in the ass
over the years that I gave her a voice and
because she uses it against me, and I have to
accept it because I'm like, you know, she is legit
her own person, and the older she gets, the more
(16:06):
I'm like, doing Mama say is less and less smart,
les's and less important. So when she like now she
operates out of a uh love, I want to show
up for this person's space. Yeah, that's my little Nkoto.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Well going her before I guess to hear, it's like
fully integrated in the picture. It was just you and
your daughter. Was there any fears about like repeating a cycle,
seeing as like your mom was a single mom herself.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
I this is the part that came up with my
kid because I was very afraid of her lacking what
I felt like could have been done differently for me,
like and so I kind of like hyper focused on
(17:03):
those areas. Yes, when when raising hers, I was like, so,
it's some some things that it's like, probably could have
been more, you know, more in tune in this area.
But at least she ain't got the trauma that I
got and we're actually close. So yeah, go back to
(17:28):
your question, though, I want to make sure I'm answering.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Oh, was there any fear about it?
Speaker 3 (17:36):
No? No, I never worried about that. I was never
so like gung ho, I have to be married, like
this is a dream. I wasn't like that. It was like,
if it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, it doesn't.
I was still dating, you know, like she and I
(17:59):
let her. She knew she saw these things.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
So it's been different. What is that that must have
been different?
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Like you're not seeing how you're supposed to like date
while having a kid. You didn't have that example, so like,
I think doing it yourself is kind of like you're
just kind of winging it, like Okay, I'm just gonna
have to do it differently, but also how do I
do it differently?
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Yes, but it also it helped in the way that
have It was all about how do I want her
to perceive relationships, you know, whether it's friendship, whatever, like
I said, because they all require the same same thing,
the same level of commitment, you know. So it's like,
(18:45):
how how do I want her to perceive this? Like
I'm walking around here miserable in a relationship. This is
what I want her to see. So no, it's making
the decision to get out over this relationship. It's going
to be hard. I sat there and cried with my
baby over some ship because I'm like, I'll put myself
(19:06):
in this situation. Now it's up to me to get
myself out of it and talk to her about it.
Like she was a little grown woman. She was every
bit of five, like a little grown like a little
grown woman, and I'm like, look, it's gonna be a
little different. This is what's gonna happen. That's what's gonna happen.
(19:28):
And it's like, do you have any questions? She would
ask her questions and then we would charge ahead, like look,
but that's being able to do that and being in
a situation where I could have that one on one
with her was definitely like the defining fact, I mean,
the deciding factor in me not having any more kids.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
This one's listen, Yeah, what was your first love?
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Like first love? I think, like legit love. I was
in high school and he it was I'm I'm not
even sure exactly now, and especially even when he and
(20:22):
I broke up, Like you know, hindsight's always twenty twenty,
So even when he and I broke up, I realized,
like I didn't even really understand what I was so
you know, in love with honestly. But yeah, it was
some little nappyhead boy with braids on the football toam
(20:49):
on me and got this girl pregnant.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Oh right, He went hard high school, and.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
That was probably what it was bore about. I was
probably just more like hurt and kind of maybe embarrassed
about that then maybe responding to love, because there's no
way in hell I knew what it was. Then you
think it's possessive. It can be, especially yeah in that
(21:18):
time for me, like it was, it was it was
possession at that age.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Somebody had somebody something that you had or wanted or
like you.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Just you just feel like this person belongs to you
and they're supposed to understand that they're yours.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
And because because Tiffany told me that she's my girlfriend,
so it means that she belongs to me.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Why would she? Why did she do that? Why did she?
She heard my feelings? This is a real person. She
heard feelings.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
I figure she heard my feelings when I was younger.
Why would she do that? Actually, she agreed to be
a loving marriage with me.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Fourteen marriage.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Yeah, I'm thoroughly enjoying this conversation. I don't know if
you can tell how comfortable light Like, what was your
first heartbreak?
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Like, yeah, that was yeah, I got her pregnant.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Yeah, so that was like the first time I was
like really just kind of devastated over over a breakup
because I was never that little girl that did not
like boys. It was always a thing. So my I
had my first boyfriend in like second grade. Right listen,
(22:39):
all right, there listen, we together. You circled yes on
the paper. I was the one asking.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Them yes, no, there is no maybe, yes and no.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
I need definitive answer because if you say no, I
got three more of these prepped for.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Him, right, I got three more classes player but now.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
But yeah, so I never went through that. But so
I feel like that a little naper head boy in
high school was the was like my my first like
I've was devastated after after the situation, cried like called
(23:23):
was one of the few times to call my sister
because we sit didn't like each other around this time,
called her because I'm like, all I got in this
house is my mama and she I can't talk to her.
So yeah, yeah that was And it was because he
got the girl pregnant.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Did you say they give me any sound advice?
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Not really advice so much. It's just she consoled me.
She comforted me, like it wasn't an advice situation.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Oh okay, it was just you just need somebody to
talk to. Yeah, it's I.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Noticed your asthmaph.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Right, like I was literally I was in front row
seat when this happened to you. So I just feel
like you she understood to my core how I felt
so yeah, and so we didn't even like really, I
don't even remember us really talking about it. It was
like telling and telling her like the broad strokes of
what happened, and she just got comforted me.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yeah, she don't really hate you that much? She did, Okay,
but I don't. I don't understand how somebody as lovable
as you can anybody can never hate. Oh okay, well
then tell me what about you makes you so lovable?
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Then now I would have to say, because.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Oh all right, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, let's switch
this around back then, what made you not so lovable?
Speaker 3 (25:00):
I was very blunt, And yes, I was very blunt,
very little tact.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
If I thought that I said it, were you one
of those like but it's the truth kind of person?
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Yeah, but it's but where do I everybody at? It's
like it just crickets, like did she.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Just And I was like, I did it again? I
told the truth.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
But also like I would be like when so if
somebody was asked like, you know, what do you love
about farn it's like a bitch honest, yeah, sometimes I
don't want to hear it, but you know.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
It's a sword exactly everybody exactly.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
But I was definitely an acquired taste, and I understood
that about myself because that was just like one of
those things I knew that I want nobody going like
walk all over me. So I felt comfortable and that's
what I was raised in. So that was one of
those things I didn't see as a negative that I
(26:20):
got from my family. So I was like, oh, I'm
holding on to this type.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Right because if you're gonna get cut by this sword,
you deserved it because you're not about to hurt me. Yeah,
but I did.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
I did reel it in and learn how to have
that and just with more tact like there's a way
or sometimes guess what that ain't got shit to do
with you, and just take a step back. You don't
even need to say anything. How about that? Yeah, sometimes
(26:55):
that's saying enough.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
My issue was I I can always see the elephant
in the room, and I'm always pointing out the elephant
in the room.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
It's just like, but why are we hiding this?
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Let's let's tell the truth. Transparency I was I. I
was transparent and not that I saw transparency and everybody.
I just wanted everybody else to be transparent. There was
so much lying and sneakiness going around with my parents
that for me, it was just like.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Let's just tell the truth. There's an elephant right there.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Why are we like, it's not dancing like kind of
trying to but like sugarcoating dance. Yeah, the sugar off.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Let's talk about it, talk about it, let's get to it. Yeah,
but that was that was, That was when I.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Was My marriage is actually what stopped me from doing that.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Oh, from just yeah, it's.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Just out there. I'm just gonna say it, and then
I'm gonna say it louder. You give me something to drink.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Regardless, you yeah, right on the same thing. Okay, So
that made you. The bluntness was what made you not
so lovable. But now, in your adult years, what's making you?
Speaker 3 (28:19):
I feel like I am m hm, I think it's
I'm a child. I try not to be so and
almost like said the same word back. That's why I
was struggling, like because I am like literally like lovable.
(28:42):
I will just skip into a room. I'm all about like,
I play far too much. I like making things awkward
is but I just I like, I don't know, I
just like seeing people for who they are and responding
(29:02):
to that, you know, and it's but above all, I'm
a child, I am goofy, I am goofy. I sit
and think of ways to be annoying. That was one
of the things that me and my sister, like, once
(29:25):
we started to bond, that was one of the things
that we bonded on because we realized that both of
us got so much fun out of annoying each other,
and we would cackle our asses off, but we would
just think of more ways to just be as obnoxious
as possible. And now, like still to this day, I
(29:48):
will annoy the fuck out of you, but it'll also
be like so endearing and so cute that it's like
it's not gonna piss you off.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
People about me like I'm I'm an annoyance, like a poker,
like I'll just keep poking. Oh you don't like this,
I'm gonna do a five more times player.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
But but that that's me.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
And it's to the point where people like you're annoying,
but they can feel the genuine innocent.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Yes, yes, I'm a child.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
While you're writing out these yeses and noses all these
boys every period trying to trying to find one for yourself.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
I just wanted somebody to show show him mine. That's
what it was.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
So even if we're growing up and we're not really
seeing mom mommy date or seeing mom in a love
and like marriage space always like views for views on
marriage for you when you were a kid or did
you did you look forward to marriage?
Speaker 3 (30:53):
So for some reason I always thought I would like
I it felt like it was in my future. I
just was not like looking at wedding dresses and shit,
I just wasn't because I was more like I realized
that so much stress and tension went into planning a
(31:19):
wedding that I realized very early that it was never
the wedding that I was excited about, and that's what
everybody else was like, So I can't wait to get
married because my wedding is gonna happen. It's like, dude,
that's a couple hours. But I'm seeing some folks come
together and the relationship is shit. So even as like
(31:45):
I think I went to a marriage seminar thinge or workshop,
some'm visiting pastor at my church and this man like
in the church openly talking to people in mind ya,
I was like seventeen. I was the youngest person there.
(32:06):
I probably shouldn't have been there, but they were like,
this is for our married couples, you know, that are
here at the church, and for people who aspire to
be And I just wanted to know what the what
the views were in everything. I was just interested. So
I was like, I'm gonna go. And when I went,
(32:27):
and he's like talking about you know, still having sex
and you know and not getting all you know, washed
up and out of it and stuff, and the church
folks just couldn't handle it. But so I didn't. I
didn't have it modeled in front of me. It was
literally like I was creating it as I grew and
(32:50):
learned more about relationships and totality. So when to here
and I got together and decided we're going to get married,
I told him like, up front, I don't have the
traditional views of marriage. This can we set what the
(33:11):
rules that we want? We make this what we wanted
to be? So like, what do we want and like?
And he had no idea how to answer that because
the only view he saw was his you know, his
aunt and uncle I believe it was. And they were like,
(33:32):
you know, Bible told you know, like every other word
was a prayer like those type of people. So he
didn't really have it modeled. I didn't have it modeled,
but I'm like, I'm gonna make some up.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
It's funny because like marriage, dating and love, like not
having it right in front of you, but knowing that
it exists. Really, I guess kind of made you go
like I have an empty foundation where I can like
develop this however I want. And it's like you're just
(34:10):
saying things like, oh, it wasn't there, So I just
made it up as I went along. It's just so
interesting because it's different than lacking and going out and
looking for it, looking for it just to try to
like refill that like voider space your stances. It's lacking,
so I'll just make it up and whatever it lands on.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
I guess that's love. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
I literally had a practice relationship before I got married,
and I was like, oh, okay, got it. I gathered
I legit, sat and reflected on every second my decisions,
my thoughts throughout the process. And so when I was
(34:58):
like in a position to be like this, these are
my views like right now, it was coming from a
place of like I've been here, you know this is something? Yeah,
you know, I had a little a practice relationship, a
starter relationship, and I was like, I know, I don't
(35:21):
like this. I know I do like this. I'm looking
for this. Can you do this right?
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Right?
Speaker 3 (35:27):
So yeah, wow.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Since you I wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
I don't want to say make it up, but I
do want to say customize because I feel like that's
more accurate for what you were doing. But since you
had to customize love and like kind of define it
for yourself, like how do you define love?
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Now?
Speaker 3 (35:51):
Love? And by love you may like love towards a person.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Or yeah, towards a person that.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Is valuing that person's role or in just that yes,
that person's role in your life so much that you
are willing to go through the range of emotions, feels
(36:20):
and everything as long as the end result is them
still being there. So like I know what it's what
it feels like to just be estranged from from a
parent and just being like I don't want to deal
(36:43):
with it. And that's because I realized that that role
and that person's role in my life was not that important.
It wasn't valuable, it wasn't fulfilling. So I walked. I
walked away, you know, and that's what I had to do,
(37:03):
and with a parent, so and there's like, and I
think about that when I'm dealing with my own child,
because I'm like, I care about whether or not you
still want to even deal with me, especially because I
(37:24):
know how bad parents can fuck their kids up. I'm
a product of. So it's like, I'm so aware that
she can just be like, you know what, My relationship
with my mother does not serve me like this. It's
a drag on me as a person. I'm gonna walk away,
But her in my life is so important to me
(37:46):
that it's like I can be angry with you and
still love you and be focused on the end result
of this, the resolution to this anger. The end result
is that you are still a part of my life.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
What I'm loving about and answering you these questions is that.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Usually everybody has.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Some type of example that they can answer, and the
answer that they give is usually them explaining the example
that they've had in their life. But you, it's a
bit different because you didn't have the example, and so
your responses are more so, well, this is what I
this is what.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
I landed on playing this is where I landed.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Love, like, this is what I got Like so, but
I do love that because I think that relationships should
be less of the example you've seen and more of
the customization that you come to create for yourself and
what works for yourself. I mean, I think examples are
good foundations, but I don't think they should necessarily be
(38:55):
the stronghold that that is what you create your right,
your love or relationship off of. So, Yeah, I'm enjoying
hearing your responses because it's really this is me at
my core. This is how I love in my core.
These are my views of my core because I didn't
have anybody to guide me in this type of way. Yeah,
(39:19):
how do you love on someone.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
More than anything? I think my biggest display of love
that's like universal is that I seek to genuinely understand,
Like I love seeing different points of views and or
(39:49):
just playing Devil's advocate presenting it. It's like, Okay, I
hear your view and I totally understand it, but I
also can see very clearly the complete other side. So
let me help you see both so that you can
make a more informed or it'll just helped change your perspective.
(40:11):
You know because perspective is everything. So yeah, I see
things that way. And if I'm struggling to then I
talk to people like am I missing something? Like I
don't understand how you how you got here? You know?
(40:33):
But yeah, so that's that's how The biggest way I
feel like I show I show love across the board?
Speaker 2 (40:44):
How is from your point of view, how is love
showing up for your kid now?
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Or like how is it from you?
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Like from your point of view, how is it when
you look at her you see how like she shows love?
Or how maybe how it may differ from you growing
up or when you were a kid.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
My I feel like you're asking how she shows love? Right,
how my kids shows? How it shows up for her?
Speaker 1 (41:29):
How it shows up for her? How she shows it?
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Like how how was the how was love just different
from her for her than it was for you?
Speaker 3 (41:37):
So that's like, oh my god, from what aspect how
it shows up for her? I feel like the really
giving her voice and seeking to understand her. It's not
(41:57):
a this is how you're supposed to do it. I
let her move always have because I try. I tried
the whole jump. When I speak think you have I
realized my kid operated differently than that. She was never
(42:18):
going to jump right up. So in order to set
us both up for success, it's like I want you
to do this. You have until this time to start
and it needs to be done, you know, Like so
give her giving her parameters, you know, like just changing
because I sought to understand who she is and she's
(42:43):
she gives it. You know, other people that favor as well.
But the ways that she shows it, she she just
she lucks, she will, she loves to spend time with
people that she loves. Like she's a quality time and
(43:06):
physical touch. It's her love language, like that's how she
displays it, that's how she wants to receive it. And
so she is like the affection queen. Yes, like it's hugs,
like she'll just stop what she's doing and just I
just wanted to come hug you, right. And it's crazy
(43:31):
because I was not an affectionate person. I was nervous
to have a daughter because I thought I was going
to ruin her. I was like, she's going to grow up.
It's like unable to love because I am. I feel
like I am and I don't know I would like
I'm not a huggy person. I wouldn't see my friends
(43:52):
for a long time and then it walk up to
them like Hi, Like I'm not hugging you. It was
weird for me. Now I'm like constantly like bring it in,
bringing in, And it's because of her nice needing that
like basically forcing it out of me. And still to
this day, nineteen in all, she is still number one
(44:14):
source of affection.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Oh, I got a question I'm interested in knowing when
it comes to you and your love. Not having a
man in the household right and raising a daughter is
obviously a stark difference than how you grew up. And
how has that been, like having a man in the house,
somebody you're married to, committed to, and now raising a daughter,
(44:41):
whereas like you growing up, your dad necessarily wasn't in
the house soon as her mom.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
How has that been? Oh?
Speaker 3 (44:49):
I opening? That's a good word, I opening, especially since,
like I said, I had never been a mother before.
I had been a babysitter, I'd been a caregiver when
my sister was sick, but I had never been a
(45:11):
mother before. But so I'm like, you know, jumping in
just like like I've been saying, just customizing rules, figuring
it out, knowing what I didn't want to want to
display and what I did, you know, like that's just
(45:32):
how I approached it, and moving in with someone who
is like just complete, like I don't even know where
to start, so I'm not gonna start right right, I
don't even know like to it's it was very very
(45:59):
I open in the way that it made me get
comfortable asking for help. It made me more gentle and
course correcting because it was like I didn't want to
(46:22):
model in any effective way of communicating to either of them,
Like I didn't want to be such a heavy hand
on her, and then he's like, this is how I'm
supposed to respond, you know. So it was I need
(46:44):
to understand, because if I seek to understand, then that
a model how I want her to be handled to him.
But then also I wanted her to see what a
healthy relationship, what a healthy disagreement looks like, what healthy conversations,
(47:04):
what I wanted her to see that, So in interacting
with my husband, it was like, how do I want
her to perceive this relationship, how she should be treated,
what she looked for, how she should how she can
advocate for herself, you know how she can have a
conversation and disagree and still walk away like just with
(47:29):
a deeper understanding, like it doesn't have to end everything.
And in that though, I was with someone who was
like a disagreement as the end of the world. So
I was literally trying to like model it and like
(47:50):
facilitate it at the same time. But it made me
more intentional with my communication and it's like and my
being as clear as I can hand be. So that's
why I'm like, it was eye opening because I'm thinking,
I'm this opinionated, you know, just down for debate. But
(48:14):
we don't have to fight. But I'm up for debate.
I want you to have a different point of you.
Let's let's talk type person and.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
Get with.
Speaker 3 (48:26):
To here. And he's like, oh, we disagree, okay, then
I'm out. Just I don't want to fight whatever you
want to do it. And I'm like, no, like, let's talk.
Let's it's okay, it's gonna be fun, right, We're gonna
(48:49):
be alright playing again.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Just quit already. I take the.
Speaker 3 (48:56):
Yeah. So I wanted to model those those things like
what I felt it should look like, and because I
wanted to keep love and the end goal still being
that love being there at the core of everything. Then
(49:17):
it was like, shit, I need to be more, I
need I need to to change this this you know,
you can still express without being a bitch. So because
I thought they were interchangeable, you know, speaking, my mind
was like, you got to you gotta be a bitch, like,
(49:40):
but no, you don't. So yeah, I it. It really
took some some like changing how I communicate, learning how
how to more effectively communicate to the people that are
in my life because it's too totally different ways that
(50:01):
they express a or want, you know, you to express
love to them.
Speaker 2 (50:08):
So yeah, I absolutely love this, realizing that in all
my years in life of like actually enjoying listening to
women and like sitting and listening to them like when
with whatever they wanted, and just modeling and becoming a
man that you know makes women feel comfortable listening to
(50:31):
them giving them what they want in the sense of like,
you know, they want to be heard, they want to
be respected, like, and they want to someone that's kind
to them in that way. I never really got to
know or understand the origin of like where some women
are coming from in their own household to understand them
a little bit more and why they love and react
(50:53):
that the react the way they do. Like I guess
in my mind I maybe had still the societal views
of like what women in love should be, like like
I'm loving on you. I'm not well, I don't use
not cheating, I think that should be a standard, but
loving on you, I'm treating you right, I'm being nice
(51:17):
to the kid, I'm cooking and cleaning, I'm being a man.
Speaker 1 (51:20):
You should just be happy. It should be shit to
complain about.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
And I've come to just realize, like you know, depending
on where the origin of this woman's love comes from,
if it's from their fathers, from their mothers, from an
absence of both, then that could really direct how they
respond to you.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
And these times of.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
What you feel they should be happy about.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
And yeah, it's like.
Speaker 3 (51:47):
Have you actually even found out what them happy? Operating
off what society told you to do? Recognize that and
because you know, it's like we're all the same, but
we're all so different. It's like we all need our
needs met, but our needs are prioritized differently, so that's
(52:12):
where our differences come in. Yes, I love that you cook.
I need to eat, but sitting having just conversation with
you and genuine, you know, close off the rest of
the world time is what's I would prioritize over that
I could feed myself, you know, but somebody else is like,
(52:35):
you know that that's so important. I would need my
partner to cook. That's very important to me because I
had to cook all the time growing up, And like
so everybody their priorities are different, but you.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
Know, and know It's one of the things I was
telling to Hear when we were recording an episode for
the series, was he was saying, you know, it was
hard for him to or challenge thing for him to
get to the point of like physical affection and physical
care and stuff like that. But he would always provide, provide, provide,
And I was like, well, yeah, we got to provide
(53:07):
some hugs too. Providing about like what you could spend
money on. And I think society has damaged our perspective
on whate of means to provide, right. We think it's
more of a financial providing and no providing is in
many different ways.
Speaker 3 (53:25):
Yes, emotional and psychological, like you you literally sometimes you
your partners like therapists. Yeah, sometimes they upset about something
else and they just need to kind of just dump,
you know, And so sometimes that's you. You know, you
(53:46):
need to have the bandwidth to be able to show
up or to communicate that like, yo, I can't effectively
be there for you right now, today is not a
good day to dump on. So but also being able
to communicate that in a way that is well received.
(54:08):
And it's like, you know what, I hear you, thank
you for telling me, because if I had done this
and then you responded a certain way, then you know, yeah, exactly,
it wasn't even necessary when we all we have to
do was communicate this community. It sounds so simple, It could.
Speaker 1 (54:28):
Be so simple.
Speaker 2 (54:36):
One of the things that I am realizing these days
is that the simplest way to sickness men are really
in their soft and men are really expressing themselves like
a bit more and getting into the emotional No, it
is beautiful, it is.
Speaker 1 (54:57):
It really is beautiful.
Speaker 3 (54:59):
Be jumping down women's bad like there's too much feelings.
I was like, we complained for years decades man not
being showing emotion or the only emotion they show is anger,
(55:20):
And now we're getting them to actually talk. And you
want to shut them down. You know, all the feelings
you got, bitch, they got them too.
Speaker 1 (55:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
I mean it's it's a new phenomenon for men to
be expressive and emotional and stuff like that. So I
think women are still trying to navigate and figure out
like where do they land with like taking on these
feelings because yeah, you we've asked for men to be expressive,
but nobody's asked for people to understand men's expression, right,
(55:49):
So it's just like, be expressive.
Speaker 1 (55:51):
Well guess what this is what I think about you, bitch? Well,
I ain't tell you express.
Speaker 3 (55:56):
It, don't express that.
Speaker 1 (56:00):
Yeah, yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (56:01):
I think we need to ask for everybody to be
more have more expressive awareness, have more emotional intelligence in
these spaces, because yeah, it's not I'm not only expressing
for myself. I'm expressing for all my ancestors of men
that didn't get to get to speak or didn't have
a voice. And that's why it comes out so explosive
(56:22):
and so new. But yeah, with this new phenomenon of
men being in the assftment era, in.
Speaker 3 (56:28):
Real talk, women not that expressive either.
Speaker 1 (56:32):
They're not they like to act like that.
Speaker 3 (56:34):
You know, I told you I love to be devil's advocate.
I can't ever on the other side of that, you
kind of suck to.
Speaker 2 (56:42):
Yeah, women, I don't like to go on the back
of the whole back and forth with women because that's
not what I do. But now, the emotional language I
think is lacking on both sides, black men and black women.
I mean rightfully, so we already know the history of
how things got to be where they are right now, absolutely,
but I want there to be more of an understanding
(57:03):
that we're both lacking emotional intelligence and language and not
just a finger pointing of while it's on the men. Yeah,
but with men being in this softment era and expressing
themselves more and being in this space and you customizing
your love and having no foundation so you do what
a fuck you want? How can in your opinion, women
(57:29):
handle love better?
Speaker 3 (57:39):
Seek to understand, actually want to understand. It's not about
winning an argument is not about a happy wife, happy life.
Is it is understand where your partners coming from. Like
(58:02):
you don't understand why they made the decision they made
or why they cleaned in that order, Like it could
be something major, it could be something small. You may
not understand why they thought to do what they did.
But if you seek to understand who they are and
what their thought process was, then it's like, how can
(58:23):
I be upset with you like you actually thought? Nah,
if motherfucker ain't thinking, that's different. But if you're able
to show your work, basically show me how you got there,
because I don't see it, I don't understand, and I
want to understand where you're coming from. And like it's
been so many times where it's like I early and
(58:47):
our relationship, I would like get upset about the end
result and spend so much time, you know, nick, picking
at that and arguing over that that once I finally
got to the why he got there? What, and it's like,
you know what, fuck, I completely understand that, like thinking
(59:11):
about what I know of you, because I should be
paying attention to who you are. Because of what I
know of you, I totally see why you got there. Yep,
It's not what I would have done, but I see
how you got there. This was my thinking because I
(59:34):
want him to also understand, like why I don't understand
why I didn't understand it, but I gotta like own it.
Speaker 2 (59:43):
That's what they mean when they say you got to
see the whole picture.
Speaker 3 (59:47):
You gotta see the whole picture.
Speaker 1 (59:50):
Look at us kids growing up and understanding.
Speaker 3 (59:52):
But growing up as trash is trash, not with the
small I don't like it.
Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
Here you saying I hate it and smiling very hard.
It's hilarious. My gosh. I really really do enjoy speaking
to you.
Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
And I think that's another reason why I I really
feel full after I speak to you, is because you
listen to understanding.
Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
You get it. Even the time when I.
Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
Came over and I was talking to you about how
I was being petty and You're like, this is petty as.
Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
Hell, but I get I get it. I get it.
Speaker 3 (01:00:29):
Yeah. It is like I'm gonna call.
Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
You out, like, oh, you already know you're being petty, Okay,
I just go ahead and talk.
Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
It's real silly, but this is your goal.
Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
You know.
Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
Yeah, I truly enjoy speaking to you, and I do
want to hang out more. But you know, it's hard
to hang out with a girl that has a husband
and a boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
I was like, you got you got.
Speaker 3 (01:00:56):
What I was thinking, and now listen, I am wasted.
Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
You in it.
Speaker 3 (01:01:03):
Now in it.
Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
I'mna have to kick these niggas. Hey make the space move.
I'm coming in, got a pressure you.
Speaker 3 (01:01:12):
Even my daughter's like, look, you do not have room
for any more relationships. Like you're right, just like no
new friends, no nothing, don't know anything.
Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
I know, but I want to hang out so bad.
Speaker 3 (01:01:27):
Fine, y'all barely made it. I was like, my capacity
for showing up is wearing thing, y'all niggas.
Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
That's how I just keep popping up to the house. Right,
I'm gonna see this one one.
Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Way or the other.
Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
Listen, Thank you, love, of course, thank you for pioneering this.
I am really seeing the vision with having these conversations
with women. Obviously, before I saw no point in talking
to women.
Speaker 3 (01:01:59):
I just I just I know that.
Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
But but honestly speaking to you and having a bit
more information on like where you came from and like
how you get to where you are. And now I'm
really looking forward to talking to more women to understand
their origin story. And I've been telling the men. But
this is also that I can be a better husband
(01:02:24):
to Mela. This is all this these episodes, I can
understand people more.
Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
Yeah, not gonna be a better husband than everybody else.
Speaker 3 (01:02:34):
He's like, I'm about to make it look easy.
Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
Before we dip out of here, I want to I
want to stress this long so so.
Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
Much further because I don't want you to go.
Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
But before we get out of here, I can use
this time to dedicate some love to someone, anybody to like.
Speaker 3 (01:03:01):
Oh wow, I want to dedicate little some love to
my husband. He's been he's been juggling a lot and learning,
being much more expressive and sharing his feels, being more
(01:03:23):
aware of what they are. But it's also coming hand
in hand with just like a lot of changes, a lot,
and so just just love and appreciation to him. So
this one's for you, kid.
Speaker 2 (01:03:41):
That's beautiful because he ain't dedicating no love to you.
He told somebody else.
Speaker 3 (01:03:44):
No, he said, his tribe, don't be doing my band.
I know what the fun he said, I know what
the fuck? He said.
Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
I love your friend, I love you, and I love
our friendship and forget and I get you too.
Speaker 3 (01:04:01):
Hey, you guys. When I moved, he came over and
put up shelves and cooked for me.
Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
It was great. That's love. That's how I show my love.
Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
Yeah, yeah, if it was so dope, if I'm feeding you,
I got nothing but right hard for you.
Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
Love he would like to tell people where they can
find you and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (01:04:25):
Google me, baby, look up one of one oh Man.
Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
For us, we love like this love cast.
Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
If you want to follow us on Instagram and SUCHI
mom and dad.
Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
Let's honestly, if you look for w.
Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
H Underscore, Orlando Roy or look for Mila Underscore Map
Love like This or who SHEI mom and dad, all
four of those of us, I'm Mela Map as well
as She's.
Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
Listen.
Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
This has been great. I can't wait to do more
of these. I actually need to sit down with more women.
Speaker 3 (01:05:03):
Did you else you need some more? I really you
need me to give you, especially for this topic. I
can give you some yeah recommendation.
Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
This is why you're the best.
Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Yes, listen, lady, y'all love y'all
Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
Like this
Like this, what's goody y'all? Yo?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I don't know why I do that, but Mila says,
I am such a fucking bird, because I'll.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Be starting to park what's goody y'all? Yo?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
One episode I said, what's goody y'all? Welcome back to
another episode.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Orlando, I'm a bird at nature.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Just saying everything, yo, the pigeon, the New York bird,
right the funk. I don't know, I don't know I
do that and I keeping with the mic when I
start the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
I don't know why I.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Used to do that. Now I just I try to.
I'm one of the people like let me sit on
my hand, because.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
What do I do on my head? Right? What do
I do with?
Speaker 3 (00:49):
It's gonna be fine?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
No, no here, Bobby oh Man, welcome, welcome. Well, first,
let me welcome the beautiful, the wonderful Aaron herself. Please,
if you have anything else, introduce yourself as please go.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
This is you. I'm happy to have you here.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
You are going to be leading off our men women's
version of the Men in Love.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Serious, so the Women in Love series.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
And you know, when I was doing this series where
I decided I want to sit down and talk to
the men that I know and find out the origin
of their love story, and just just hearing and learning
more about how we are all so different but also
so similar with our black men as far as like
our upbringing around love and like how it like sits
(01:46):
with us right now. I realized that I needed an
update of like women these days, like of like women
in their more mature phase. I didn't really have it
so much when I was a kid, Like my mom wasn't.
I don't think it was a very uh loving figure
(02:06):
outside of like how she viewed loved to like my
dad or one of my dad. And then as I
got older, I would listen to my friends and my
homegirls and stuff like that, and then I feel like
at some point I was like, Okay, I think I
got it really.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Right, right right.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
But I'm realizing now, at this tender age of thirty three,
that I might need to have more conversations about women
now that I'm getting closer to marriage. Yeah, why nobody
likes my rollout?
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Yeah, he's like, maybe it's going to be this date
and he gave no update. No, I think it didn't
what happened.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
But I'm realizing that as I'm getting closer to marriage,
I need to probably have more conversations with grown women
in essence or with in the realm of real love
and their origin of their love and how it just
like operates and shows up for them these days. So
(03:08):
thank you, thank you for calling up. And honestly, you're
one of the You're one of the people who I
may not talk to as often, but I feel comfortable
speaking to you as if like I just spoke to you.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Yes, listen, you saw. I was like my stomach her,
you're making soon hear me song.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
You snum occur, I got to boom perfect. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
My my origin story is a a little a little
weird in the way that I saw all the ways
I did not want to be mm hmmow, and I
took it from there.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Yeah, really, I saw a lot of things, and it
was only in my immediate family because outside of like
my actual mom and dad, everybody around me was like affectionate,
showing love to some degrees, you know, black people grow
up Black people in the nineties, like to only some degree.
That's showing something, right, But as far as like the
(04:13):
tremosual relationship between my mom and my dad, I'd be.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Saying that word a lot. I don't know it's a
real word.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
You're doing it, you're doing it so good.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
But this tremosous relationship that my mom and my dad have,
I wasn't. It wasn't what was showing me love. But
I would get love from like aunts and uncles, and
I had a big big families and aunts and uncles,
cousins like family members. They're like, whoa, this is great,
and then I'll go back home. My mom has stressful
(04:43):
last But what was it like for you in your
household growing up as far as like love and marriage, so.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
That it did not exist in my house much like
to hear it did not exist at home so much.
I I think I saw my mom dates, but they
were like not even serious because she had been abused
(05:12):
as a child, so she was very very strict about
having men around her girls and being a single mom
of two women, she was just like kind of swore
off dating for the most part. So I did. Yes,
I have an older sister, so she pretty much like
swore off dating for the most part, and so I
(05:36):
didn't really see a relationship modeled, which is crazy because
it kind of helped in the way that now I
see the work that has to be put into like
worthy relationships, no matter what the dynamic is, it's all
(06:00):
the same. If it's important to you, then you need
to nurture it. If it's not, then you let it go.
Like it's is basically that simple. So you still need
to communicate, You still need to show interests, be supportive,
like all the whether you're my sister, my mom, dad, husband,
(06:21):
like the things that you have to put into relationships
are pretty much the same, very.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Much so true. It's like all the foundational.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Yes, so yeah, not having it and just seeing like
just seeing it done in a less than like effective
or even meaningful way. It was like, that's not what
I want.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
It's so interesting that you say that it was helpful
because we meet mel and I.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
We had a friend and have a friend.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Who she she wouldn't She said that she wouldn't date
or she wouldn't bring her dates around her kid because
she wants her child to see her with somebody, not
necessarily like just the dating part, because what if they
come around and they're not there anymore. And what we
told her was, you know, maybe maybe your child should
(07:17):
see that, they should see all the dynamics that come
with dating or with being with somebody, and they should
see like, you know, you can meet people and you
can have any time and experience with them, and then
it can go away and it is perfectly fine.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
So it's I see, that's interesting that to say that
it worked out like your mom not having like people
around that much, right, and you learn it in a.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Different way, is so crazy. I just realized, like, what
because she didn't give it there? She like I seen
it just kind of a lacklusterness in other areas because
(08:00):
she wasn't giving it there. It's usually people like try
to balance it, try to overcompensate somewhere else. She was
like just not really giving her all anywhere. And it's like, wow,
this area of her life needs just as much attention
as this one, yeah does, and she ain't given neither
(08:20):
one of us much so in the way of like
just really nurturing the relation, Yeah, the relationship, saying and
being like truly to her core supportive. It was more
obligatory actions like this is just what I'm supposed to do,
(08:42):
not coming from a loving place. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
How was that with like your relationship with your was
it just you your sister and your mom mostly growing up?
Speaker 1 (08:52):
How is that with like going with your sister.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
My sister and I like legit hated each other until
I was like in college. Yes, because because she she
was just like angry about like just the situation. My
dad wasn't there anymore, like he left when I was
(09:21):
really young. That well, they split when I was really young,
and so she just like just grew up angry and
so we did not get along. And then once like
both of us, once I reached adulthood with her and
she had to do some growing of her own, we
(09:41):
just kind of came together and was like, we're gonna
do this different. We see so much drama between the
my mom, aunts and uncles and stuff and my grandmother,
Like it's just drama and bitterness, and it was like, man,
we're breaking that fucking cycle. Like we can't. So we
started actually working on our relationship as sisters and just
(10:07):
being intentional about like really stealing our bond because it
was it was not modeled for us, which is why
I was like it kind of helped not having it
because it made me helped me realize like, oh, this
is a choice, this is intention this is like how
(10:29):
how a relationship, a loving relationship is supposed to be cultivated, and.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
You saw the absence is an absence in it, and
you made you recognize how important it.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Is find the neede feeling need, I guess feeling it.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
And I asked about your sister, because you know, it's
pretty important for a child, a little girl, her mom
to have a certain type of relationship, and then also
important for her like her and her sister to have
like a specific type of relationship. And so to hear
that you're growing up in one space where your mom
(11:03):
may not be what your mom was showing or not
showing something, or having a lacking of love in one place,
which may not seem to be the most positive, and
then also growing up.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Hitting your sister but also may not seem to be
a positive.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
It's like, well, that's a very interesting I supposed to
grow up in as little girl, Yes, the youngest.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Yeah, and it's it was just like generational stuff. My
mom and my grandmother did not get along at all,
and so that and my mom was the oldest of
like thirteen kids or some shit like that. Not all
I made it, I forget the total whatever, but my
(11:44):
mom was the oldest in her they did, they didn't
get along, and then my mom and her oldest kid
didn't get along. And so like I literally was like
remember trying to feel that that daughter's space for my mom,
trying to be that like, oh she she not good
(12:07):
in school, then let me, you know, let me exactly,
you know, on the roll again, like you know, oh
she you know, joined the sport and quick, well I'm
joining and I'm gonna stay in it until forever, like
you know. So I just found myself doing that. So
(12:29):
it was, Yeah, it was a weird, weird space.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Do you ever feel like you're yourself like trying to
fill your mom's love space.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
I feel like I did for a short time. But
because I I was not I didn't not swear off men,
not even once I had had my daughter, I didn't
swear them off. So because I was still dating and
I still had partners and sometimes every once in a
(13:02):
while in a relationship, I still had to like keep
that line there. And that's like also helped me realize
like how much like anger and like unresolved issues were
still there because of the energy that she would give
me and my relationships. And so it was a lot
(13:25):
of seeing, seeing what could be done better. Yeah, yeah,
I just had this conversation with my daughter a couple
of days ago.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
But yeah, oh, I guess that's a good.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
A good segue into well, now, it's a much different
relationship with you and your daughter now? And how would
you say it's different between you and your mom in
comparison to your daughter and you.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
I operate like because my feelings are like my actions
pretty much display my how I feel. To my core,
I can't hide it. If I don't like you, my
body will literally reject your presence. If I fuck with you,
(14:17):
then I'm going to walk past you and I'm going
to hug you like we like that. It's the and
everywhere in between, Like it just it's literally like levels
to how I unfold with people. Yeah, So my relationship
with my daughter, even from a baby, like once I
(14:40):
realized like, yo, I love this kid. Because it took
a little while. Wasn't immediate it immediate for everybody. It
took it took a few weeks. But once I was like, yo,
I love this person. Uh you know, I was all
in And so the decisions I made what I did,
(15:02):
it wasn't out of oh, I got this kid, let
me take care of it. It was out of I love.
I love this baby. So even growing up I did
not have a voice as a child, I owe us.
So I overcompensated with my kid because I'm like, I
had thoughts and feelings and nobody asked me anything as
(15:23):
a child. So from the moment my kid was able
to speak, I'm like, what do you want? You know,
down to if I'm going out for the night, before
I arrange a sitter, I'm like, where do you want
to go? Or this person's available? Are you okay? Because
(15:45):
I was in situations where I was not, but I
didn't have a say in it. So it's just and
now it's like it has been me in the ass
over the years that I gave her a voice and
because she uses it against me, and I have to
accept it because I'm like, you know, she is legit
her own person, and the older she gets, the more
(16:06):
I'm like, doing Mama say is less and less smart,
les's and less important. So when she like now she
operates out of a uh love, I want to show
up for this person's space. Yeah, that's my little Nkoto.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Well going her before I guess to hear, it's like
fully integrated in the picture. It was just you and
your daughter. Was there any fears about like repeating a cycle,
seeing as like your mom was a single mom herself.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
I this is the part that came up with my
kid because I was very afraid of her lacking what
I felt like could have been done differently for me,
like and so I kind of like hyper focused on
(17:03):
those areas. Yes, when when raising hers, I was like, so,
it's some some things that it's like, probably could have
been more, you know, more in tune in this area.
But at least she ain't got the trauma that I
got and we're actually close. So yeah, go back to
(17:28):
your question, though, I want to make sure I'm answering.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Oh, was there any fear about it?
Speaker 3 (17:36):
No? No, I never worried about that. I was never
so like gung ho, I have to be married, like
this is a dream. I wasn't like that. It was like,
if it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, it doesn't.
I was still dating, you know, like she and I
(17:59):
let her. She knew she saw these things.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
So it's been different. What is that that must have
been different?
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Like you're not seeing how you're supposed to like date
while having a kid. You didn't have that example, so like,
I think doing it yourself is kind of like you're
just kind of winging it, like Okay, I'm just gonna
have to do it differently, but also how do I
do it differently?
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Yes, but it also it helped in the way that
have It was all about how do I want her
to perceive relationships, you know, whether it's friendship, whatever, like
I said, because they all require the same same thing,
the same level of commitment, you know. So it's like,
(18:45):
how how do I want her to perceive this? Like
I'm walking around here miserable in a relationship. This is
what I want her to see. So no, it's making
the decision to get out over this relationship. It's going
to be hard. I sat there and cried with my
baby over some ship because I'm like, I'll put myself
(19:06):
in this situation. Now it's up to me to get
myself out of it and talk to her about it.
Like she was a little grown woman. She was every
bit of five, like a little grown like a little
grown woman, and I'm like, look, it's gonna be a
little different. This is what's gonna happen. That's what's gonna happen.
(19:28):
And it's like, do you have any questions? She would
ask her questions and then we would charge ahead, like look,
but that's being able to do that and being in
a situation where I could have that one on one
with her was definitely like the defining fact, I mean,
the deciding factor in me not having any more kids.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
This one's listen, Yeah, what was your first love?
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Like first love? I think, like legit love. I was
in high school and he it was I'm I'm not
even sure exactly now, and especially even when he and
(20:22):
I broke up, Like you know, hindsight's always twenty twenty,
So even when he and I broke up, I realized,
like I didn't even really understand what I was so
you know, in love with honestly. But yeah, it was
some little nappyhead boy with braids on the football toam
(20:49):
on me and got this girl pregnant.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Oh right, He went hard high school, and.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
That was probably what it was bore about. I was
probably just more like hurt and kind of maybe embarrassed
about that then maybe responding to love, because there's no
way in hell I knew what it was. Then you
think it's possessive. It can be, especially yeah in that
(21:18):
time for me, like it was, it was it was
possession at that age.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Somebody had somebody something that you had or wanted or
like you.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Just you just feel like this person belongs to you
and they're supposed to understand that they're yours.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
And because because Tiffany told me that she's my girlfriend,
so it means that she belongs to me.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Why would she? Why did she do that? Why did she?
She heard my feelings? This is a real person. She
heard feelings.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
I figure she heard my feelings when I was younger.
Why would she do that? Actually, she agreed to be
a loving marriage with me.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Fourteen marriage.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Yeah, I'm thoroughly enjoying this conversation. I don't know if
you can tell how comfortable light Like, what was your
first heartbreak?
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Like, yeah, that was yeah, I got her pregnant.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Yeah, so that was like the first time I was
like really just kind of devastated over over a breakup
because I was never that little girl that did not
like boys. It was always a thing. So my I
had my first boyfriend in like second grade. Right listen,
(22:39):
all right, there listen, we together. You circled yes on
the paper. I was the one asking.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Them yes, no, there is no maybe, yes and no.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
I need definitive answer because if you say no, I
got three more of these prepped for.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Him, right, I got three more classes player but now.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
But yeah, so I never went through that. But so
I feel like that a little naper head boy in
high school was the was like my my first like
I've was devastated after after the situation, cried like called
(23:23):
was one of the few times to call my sister
because we sit didn't like each other around this time,
called her because I'm like, all I got in this
house is my mama and she I can't talk to her.
So yeah, yeah that was And it was because he
got the girl pregnant.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Did you say they give me any sound advice?
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Not really advice so much. It's just she consoled me.
She comforted me, like it wasn't an advice situation.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Oh okay, it was just you just need somebody to
talk to. Yeah, it's I.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Noticed your asthmaph.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Right, like I was literally I was in front row
seat when this happened to you. So I just feel
like you she understood to my core how I felt
so yeah, and so we didn't even like really, I
don't even remember us really talking about it. It was
like telling and telling her like the broad strokes of
what happened, and she just got comforted me.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yeah, she don't really hate you that much? She did, Okay,
but I don't. I don't understand how somebody as lovable
as you can anybody can never hate. Oh okay, well
then tell me what about you makes you so lovable?
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Then now I would have to say, because.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Oh all right, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, let's switch
this around back then, what made you not so lovable?
Speaker 3 (25:00):
I was very blunt, And yes, I was very blunt,
very little tact.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
If I thought that I said it, were you one
of those like but it's the truth kind of person?
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Yeah, but it's but where do I everybody at? It's
like it just crickets, like did she.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Just And I was like, I did it again? I
told the truth.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
But also like I would be like when so if
somebody was asked like, you know, what do you love
about farn it's like a bitch honest, yeah, sometimes I
don't want to hear it, but you know.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
It's a sword exactly everybody exactly.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
But I was definitely an acquired taste, and I understood
that about myself because that was just like one of
those things I knew that I want nobody going like
walk all over me. So I felt comfortable and that's
what I was raised in. So that was one of
those things I didn't see as a negative that I
(26:20):
got from my family. So I was like, oh, I'm
holding on to this type.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Right because if you're gonna get cut by this sword,
you deserved it because you're not about to hurt me. Yeah,
but I did.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
I did reel it in and learn how to have
that and just with more tact like there's a way
or sometimes guess what that ain't got shit to do
with you, and just take a step back. You don't
even need to say anything. How about that? Yeah, sometimes
(26:55):
that's saying enough.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
My issue was I I can always see the elephant
in the room, and I'm always pointing out the elephant
in the room.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
It's just like, but why are we hiding this?
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Let's let's tell the truth. Transparency I was I. I
was transparent and not that I saw transparency and everybody.
I just wanted everybody else to be transparent. There was
so much lying and sneakiness going around with my parents
that for me, it was just like.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Let's just tell the truth. There's an elephant right there.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Why are we like, it's not dancing like kind of
trying to but like sugarcoating dance. Yeah, the sugar off.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Let's talk about it, talk about it, let's get to it. Yeah,
but that was that was, That was when I.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Was My marriage is actually what stopped me from doing that.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Oh, from just yeah, it's.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Just out there. I'm just gonna say it, and then
I'm gonna say it louder. You give me something to drink.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Regardless, you yeah, right on the same thing. Okay, So
that made you. The bluntness was what made you not
so lovable. But now, in your adult years, what's making you?
Speaker 3 (28:19):
I feel like I am m hm, I think it's
I'm a child. I try not to be so and
almost like said the same word back. That's why I
was struggling, like because I am like literally like lovable.
(28:42):
I will just skip into a room. I'm all about like,
I play far too much. I like making things awkward
is but I just I like, I don't know, I
just like seeing people for who they are and responding
(29:02):
to that, you know, and it's but above all, I'm
a child, I am goofy, I am goofy. I sit
and think of ways to be annoying. That was one
of the things that me and my sister, like, once
(29:25):
we started to bond, that was one of the things
that we bonded on because we realized that both of
us got so much fun out of annoying each other,
and we would cackle our asses off, but we would
just think of more ways to just be as obnoxious
as possible. And now, like still to this day, I
(29:48):
will annoy the fuck out of you, but it'll also
be like so endearing and so cute that it's like
it's not gonna piss you off.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
People about me like I'm I'm an annoyance, like a poker,
like I'll just keep poking. Oh you don't like this,
I'm gonna do a five more times player.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
But but that that's me.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
And it's to the point where people like you're annoying,
but they can feel the genuine innocent.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Yes, yes, I'm a child.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
While you're writing out these yeses and noses all these
boys every period trying to trying to find one for yourself.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
I just wanted somebody to show show him mine. That's
what it was.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
So even if we're growing up and we're not really
seeing mom mommy date or seeing mom in a love
and like marriage space always like views for views on
marriage for you when you were a kid or did
you did you look forward to marriage?
Speaker 3 (30:53):
So for some reason I always thought I would like
I it felt like it was in my future. I
just was not like looking at wedding dresses and shit,
I just wasn't because I was more like I realized
that so much stress and tension went into planning a
(31:19):
wedding that I realized very early that it was never
the wedding that I was excited about, and that's what
everybody else was like, So I can't wait to get
married because my wedding is gonna happen. It's like, dude,
that's a couple hours. But I'm seeing some folks come
together and the relationship is shit. So even as like
(31:45):
I think I went to a marriage seminar thinge or workshop,
some'm visiting pastor at my church and this man like
in the church openly talking to people in mind ya,
I was like seventeen. I was the youngest person there.
(32:06):
I probably shouldn't have been there, but they were like,
this is for our married couples, you know, that are
here at the church, and for people who aspire to
be And I just wanted to know what the what
the views were in everything. I was just interested. So
I was like, I'm gonna go. And when I went,
(32:27):
and he's like talking about you know, still having sex
and you know and not getting all you know, washed
up and out of it and stuff, and the church
folks just couldn't handle it. But so I didn't. I
didn't have it modeled in front of me. It was
literally like I was creating it as I grew and
(32:50):
learned more about relationships and totality. So when to here
and I got together and decided we're going to get married,
I told him like, up front, I don't have the
traditional views of marriage. This can we set what the
(33:11):
rules that we want? We make this what we wanted
to be? So like, what do we want and like?
And he had no idea how to answer that because
the only view he saw was his you know, his
aunt and uncle I believe it was. And they were like,
(33:32):
you know, Bible told you know, like every other word
was a prayer like those type of people. So he
didn't really have it modeled. I didn't have it modeled,
but I'm like, I'm gonna make some up.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
It's funny because like marriage, dating and love, like not
having it right in front of you, but knowing that
it exists. Really, I guess kind of made you go
like I have an empty foundation where I can like
develop this however I want. And it's like you're just
(34:10):
saying things like, oh, it wasn't there, So I just
made it up as I went along. It's just so
interesting because it's different than lacking and going out and
looking for it, looking for it just to try to
like refill that like voider space your stances. It's lacking,
so I'll just make it up and whatever it lands on.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
I guess that's love. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
I literally had a practice relationship before I got married,
and I was like, oh, okay, got it. I gathered
I legit, sat and reflected on every second my decisions,
my thoughts throughout the process. And so when I was
(34:58):
like in a position to be like this, these are
my views like right now, it was coming from a
place of like I've been here, you know this is something? Yeah,
you know, I had a little a practice relationship, a
starter relationship, and I was like, I know, I don't
(35:21):
like this. I know I do like this. I'm looking
for this. Can you do this right?
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Right?
Speaker 3 (35:27):
So yeah, wow.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Since you I wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
I don't want to say make it up, but I
do want to say customize because I feel like that's
more accurate for what you were doing. But since you
had to customize love and like kind of define it
for yourself, like how do you define love?
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Now?
Speaker 3 (35:51):
Love? And by love you may like love towards a person.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Or yeah, towards a person that.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Is valuing that person's role or in just that yes,
that person's role in your life so much that you
are willing to go through the range of emotions, feels
(36:20):
and everything as long as the end result is them
still being there. So like I know what it's what
it feels like to just be estranged from from a
parent and just being like I don't want to deal
(36:43):
with it. And that's because I realized that that role
and that person's role in my life was not that important.
It wasn't valuable, it wasn't fulfilling. So I walked. I
walked away, you know, and that's what I had to do,
(37:03):
and with a parent, so and there's like, and I
think about that when I'm dealing with my own child,
because I'm like, I care about whether or not you
still want to even deal with me, especially because I
(37:24):
know how bad parents can fuck their kids up. I'm
a product of. So it's like, I'm so aware that
she can just be like, you know what, My relationship
with my mother does not serve me like this. It's
a drag on me as a person. I'm gonna walk away,
But her in my life is so important to me
(37:46):
that it's like I can be angry with you and
still love you and be focused on the end result
of this, the resolution to this anger. The end result
is that you are still a part of my life.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
What I'm loving about and answering you these questions is that.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Usually everybody has.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Some type of example that they can answer, and the
answer that they give is usually them explaining the example
that they've had in their life. But you, it's a
bit different because you didn't have the example, and so
your responses are more so, well, this is what I
this is what.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
I landed on playing this is where I landed.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Love, like, this is what I got Like so, but
I do love that because I think that relationships should
be less of the example you've seen and more of
the customization that you come to create for yourself and
what works for yourself. I mean, I think examples are
good foundations, but I don't think they should necessarily be
(38:55):
the stronghold that that is what you create your right,
your love or relationship off of. So, Yeah, I'm enjoying
hearing your responses because it's really this is me at
my core. This is how I love in my core.
These are my views of my core because I didn't
have anybody to guide me in this type of way. Yeah,
(39:19):
how do you love on someone.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
More than anything? I think my biggest display of love
that's like universal is that I seek to genuinely understand,
Like I love seeing different points of views and or
(39:49):
just playing Devil's advocate presenting it. It's like, Okay, I
hear your view and I totally understand it, but I
also can see very clearly the complete other side. So
let me help you see both so that you can
make a more informed or it'll just helped change your perspective.
(40:11):
You know because perspective is everything. So yeah, I see
things that way. And if I'm struggling to then I
talk to people like am I missing something? Like I
don't understand how you how you got here? You know?
(40:33):
But yeah, so that's that's how The biggest way I
feel like I show I show love across the board?
Speaker 2 (40:44):
How is from your point of view, how is love
showing up for your kid now?
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Or like how is it from you?
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Like from your point of view, how is it when
you look at her you see how like she shows love?
Or how maybe how it may differ from you growing
up or when you were a kid.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
My I feel like you're asking how she shows love? Right,
how my kids shows? How it shows up for her?
Speaker 1 (41:29):
How it shows up for her? How she shows it?
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Like how how was the how was love just different
from her for her than it was for you?
Speaker 3 (41:37):
So that's like, oh my god, from what aspect how
it shows up for her? I feel like the really
giving her voice and seeking to understand her. It's not
(41:57):
a this is how you're supposed to do it. I
let her move always have because I try. I tried
the whole jump. When I speak think you have I
realized my kid operated differently than that. She was never
(42:18):
going to jump right up. So in order to set
us both up for success, it's like I want you
to do this. You have until this time to start
and it needs to be done, you know, Like so
give her giving her parameters, you know, like just changing
because I sought to understand who she is and she's
(42:43):
she gives it. You know, other people that favor as well.
But the ways that she shows it, she she just
she lucks, she will, she loves to spend time with
people that she loves. Like she's a quality time and
(43:06):
physical touch. It's her love language, like that's how she
displays it, that's how she wants to receive it. And
so she is like the affection queen. Yes, like it's hugs,
like she'll just stop what she's doing and just I
just wanted to come hug you, right. And it's crazy
(43:31):
because I was not an affectionate person. I was nervous
to have a daughter because I thought I was going
to ruin her. I was like, she's going to grow up.
It's like unable to love because I am. I feel
like I am and I don't know I would like
I'm not a huggy person. I wouldn't see my friends
(43:52):
for a long time and then it walk up to
them like Hi, Like I'm not hugging you. It was
weird for me. Now I'm like constantly like bring it in,
bringing in, And it's because of her nice needing that
like basically forcing it out of me. And still to
this day, nineteen in all, she is still number one
(44:14):
source of affection.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Oh, I got a question I'm interested in knowing when
it comes to you and your love. Not having a
man in the household right and raising a daughter is
obviously a stark difference than how you grew up. And
how has that been, like having a man in the house,
somebody you're married to, committed to, and now raising a daughter,
(44:41):
whereas like you growing up, your dad necessarily wasn't in
the house soon as her mom.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
How has that been? Oh?
Speaker 3 (44:49):
I opening? That's a good word, I opening, especially since,
like I said, I had never been a mother before.
I had been a babysitter, I'd been a caregiver when
my sister was sick, but I had never been a
(45:11):
mother before. But so I'm like, you know, jumping in
just like like I've been saying, just customizing rules, figuring
it out, knowing what I didn't want to want to
display and what I did, you know, like that's just
(45:32):
how I approached it, and moving in with someone who
is like just complete, like I don't even know where
to start, so I'm not gonna start right right, I
don't even know like to it's it was very very
(45:59):
I open in the way that it made me get
comfortable asking for help. It made me more gentle and
course correcting because it was like I didn't want to
(46:22):
model in any effective way of communicating to either of them,
Like I didn't want to be such a heavy hand
on her, and then he's like, this is how I'm
supposed to respond, you know. So it was I need
(46:44):
to understand, because if I seek to understand, then that
a model how I want her to be handled to him.
But then also I wanted her to see what a
healthy relationship, what a healthy disagreement looks like, what healthy conversations,
(47:04):
what I wanted her to see that, So in interacting
with my husband, it was like, how do I want
her to perceive this relationship, how she should be treated,
what she looked for, how she should how she can
advocate for herself, you know how she can have a
conversation and disagree and still walk away like just with
(47:29):
a deeper understanding, like it doesn't have to end everything.
And in that though, I was with someone who was
like a disagreement as the end of the world. So
I was literally trying to like model it and like
(47:50):
facilitate it at the same time. But it made me
more intentional with my communication and it's like and my
being as clear as I can hand be. So that's
why I'm like, it was eye opening because I'm thinking,
I'm this opinionated, you know, just down for debate. But
(48:14):
we don't have to fight. But I'm up for debate.
I want you to have a different point of you.
Let's let's talk type person and.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
Get with.
Speaker 3 (48:26):
To here. And he's like, oh, we disagree, okay, then
I'm out. Just I don't want to fight whatever you
want to do it. And I'm like, no, like, let's talk.
Let's it's okay, it's gonna be fun, right, We're gonna
(48:49):
be alright playing again.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Just quit already. I take the.
Speaker 3 (48:56):
Yeah. So I wanted to model those those things like
what I felt it should look like, and because I
wanted to keep love and the end goal still being
that love being there at the core of everything. Then
(49:17):
it was like, shit, I need to be more, I
need I need to to change this this you know,
you can still express without being a bitch. So because
I thought they were interchangeable, you know, speaking, my mind
was like, you got to you gotta be a bitch, like,
(49:40):
but no, you don't. So yeah, I it. It really
took some some like changing how I communicate, learning how
how to more effectively communicate to the people that are
in my life because it's too totally different ways that
(50:01):
they express a or want, you know, you to express
love to them.
Speaker 2 (50:08):
So yeah, I absolutely love this, realizing that in all
my years in life of like actually enjoying listening to
women and like sitting and listening to them like when
with whatever they wanted, and just modeling and becoming a
man that you know makes women feel comfortable listening to
(50:31):
them giving them what they want in the sense of like,
you know, they want to be heard, they want to
be respected, like, and they want to someone that's kind
to them in that way. I never really got to
know or understand the origin of like where some women
are coming from in their own household to understand them
a little bit more and why they love and react
(50:53):
that the react the way they do. Like I guess
in my mind I maybe had still the societal views
of like what women in love should be, like like
I'm loving on you. I'm not well, I don't use
not cheating, I think that should be a standard, but
loving on you, I'm treating you right, I'm being nice
(51:17):
to the kid, I'm cooking and cleaning, I'm being a man.
Speaker 1 (51:20):
You should just be happy. It should be shit to
complain about.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
And I've come to just realize, like you know, depending
on where the origin of this woman's love comes from,
if it's from their fathers, from their mothers, from an
absence of both, then that could really direct how they
respond to you.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
And these times of.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
What you feel they should be happy about.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
And yeah, it's like.
Speaker 3 (51:47):
Have you actually even found out what them happy? Operating
off what society told you to do? Recognize that and
because you know, it's like we're all the same, but
we're all so different. It's like we all need our
needs met, but our needs are prioritized differently, so that's
(52:12):
where our differences come in. Yes, I love that you cook.
I need to eat, but sitting having just conversation with
you and genuine, you know, close off the rest of
the world time is what's I would prioritize over that
I could feed myself, you know, but somebody else is like,
(52:35):
you know that that's so important. I would need my
partner to cook. That's very important to me because I
had to cook all the time growing up, And like
so everybody their priorities are different, but you.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
Know, and know It's one of the things I was
telling to Hear when we were recording an episode for
the series, was he was saying, you know, it was
hard for him to or challenge thing for him to
get to the point of like physical affection and physical
care and stuff like that. But he would always provide, provide, provide,
And I was like, well, yeah, we got to provide
(53:07):
some hugs too. Providing about like what you could spend
money on. And I think society has damaged our perspective
on whate of means to provide, right. We think it's
more of a financial providing and no providing is in
many different ways.
Speaker 3 (53:25):
Yes, emotional and psychological, like you you literally sometimes you
your partners like therapists. Yeah, sometimes they upset about something
else and they just need to kind of just dump,
you know, And so sometimes that's you. You know, you
(53:46):
need to have the bandwidth to be able to show
up or to communicate that like, yo, I can't effectively
be there for you right now, today is not a
good day to dump on. So but also being able
to communicate that in a way that is well received.
(54:08):
And it's like, you know what, I hear you, thank
you for telling me, because if I had done this
and then you responded a certain way, then you know, yeah, exactly,
it wasn't even necessary when we all we have to
do was communicate this community. It sounds so simple, It could.
Speaker 1 (54:28):
Be so simple.
Speaker 2 (54:36):
One of the things that I am realizing these days
is that the simplest way to sickness men are really
in their soft and men are really expressing themselves like
a bit more and getting into the emotional No, it
is beautiful, it is.
Speaker 1 (54:57):
It really is beautiful.
Speaker 3 (54:59):
Be jumping down women's bad like there's too much feelings.
I was like, we complained for years decades man not
being showing emotion or the only emotion they show is anger,
(55:20):
And now we're getting them to actually talk. And you
want to shut them down. You know, all the feelings
you got, bitch, they got them too.
Speaker 1 (55:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
I mean it's it's a new phenomenon for men to
be expressive and emotional and stuff like that. So I
think women are still trying to navigate and figure out
like where do they land with like taking on these
feelings because yeah, you we've asked for men to be expressive,
but nobody's asked for people to understand men's expression, right,
(55:49):
So it's just like, be expressive.
Speaker 1 (55:51):
Well guess what this is what I think about you, bitch? Well,
I ain't tell you express.
Speaker 3 (55:56):
It, don't express that.
Speaker 1 (56:00):
Yeah, yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (56:01):
I think we need to ask for everybody to be
more have more expressive awareness, have more emotional intelligence in
these spaces, because yeah, it's not I'm not only expressing
for myself. I'm expressing for all my ancestors of men
that didn't get to get to speak or didn't have
a voice. And that's why it comes out so explosive
(56:22):
and so new. But yeah, with this new phenomenon of
men being in the assftment era, in.
Speaker 3 (56:28):
Real talk, women not that expressive either.
Speaker 1 (56:32):
They're not they like to act like that.
Speaker 3 (56:34):
You know, I told you I love to be devil's advocate.
I can't ever on the other side of that, you
kind of suck to.
Speaker 2 (56:42):
Yeah, women, I don't like to go on the back
of the whole back and forth with women because that's
not what I do. But now, the emotional language I
think is lacking on both sides, black men and black women.
I mean rightfully, so we already know the history of
how things got to be where they are right now, absolutely,
but I want there to be more of an understanding
(57:03):
that we're both lacking emotional intelligence and language and not
just a finger pointing of while it's on the men. Yeah,
but with men being in this softment era and expressing
themselves more and being in this space and you customizing
your love and having no foundation so you do what
a fuck you want? How can in your opinion, women
(57:29):
handle love better?
Speaker 3 (57:39):
Seek to understand, actually want to understand. It's not about
winning an argument is not about a happy wife, happy life.
Is it is understand where your partners coming from. Like
(58:02):
you don't understand why they made the decision they made
or why they cleaned in that order, Like it could
be something major, it could be something small. You may
not understand why they thought to do what they did.
But if you seek to understand who they are and
what their thought process was, then it's like, how can
(58:23):
I be upset with you like you actually thought? Nah,
if motherfucker ain't thinking, that's different. But if you're able
to show your work, basically show me how you got there,
because I don't see it, I don't understand, and I
want to understand where you're coming from. And like it's
been so many times where it's like I early and
(58:47):
our relationship, I would like get upset about the end
result and spend so much time, you know, nick, picking
at that and arguing over that that once I finally
got to the why he got there? What, and it's like,
you know what, fuck, I completely understand that, like thinking
(59:11):
about what I know of you, because I should be
paying attention to who you are. Because of what I
know of you, I totally see why you got there. Yep,
It's not what I would have done, but I see
how you got there. This was my thinking because I
(59:34):
want him to also understand, like why I don't understand
why I didn't understand it, but I gotta like own it.
Speaker 2 (59:43):
That's what they mean when they say you got to
see the whole picture.
Speaker 3 (59:47):
You gotta see the whole picture.
Speaker 1 (59:50):
Look at us kids growing up and understanding.
Speaker 3 (59:52):
But growing up as trash is trash, not with the
small I don't like it.
Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
Here you saying I hate it and smiling very hard.
It's hilarious. My gosh. I really really do enjoy speaking
to you.
Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
And I think that's another reason why I I really
feel full after I speak to you, is because you
listen to understanding.
Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
You get it. Even the time when I.
Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
Came over and I was talking to you about how
I was being petty and You're like, this is petty as.
Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
Hell, but I get I get it. I get it.
Speaker 3 (01:00:29):
Yeah. It is like I'm gonna call.
Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
You out, like, oh, you already know you're being petty, Okay,
I just go ahead and talk.
Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
It's real silly, but this is your goal.
Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
You know.
Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
Yeah, I truly enjoy speaking to you, and I do
want to hang out more. But you know, it's hard
to hang out with a girl that has a husband
and a boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
I was like, you got you got.
Speaker 3 (01:00:56):
What I was thinking, and now listen, I am wasted.
Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
You in it.
Speaker 3 (01:01:03):
Now in it.
Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
I'mna have to kick these niggas. Hey make the space move.
I'm coming in, got a pressure you.
Speaker 3 (01:01:12):
Even my daughter's like, look, you do not have room
for any more relationships. Like you're right, just like no
new friends, no nothing, don't know anything.
Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
I know, but I want to hang out so bad.
Speaker 3 (01:01:27):
Fine, y'all barely made it. I was like, my capacity
for showing up is wearing thing, y'all niggas.
Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
That's how I just keep popping up to the house. Right,
I'm gonna see this one one.
Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Way or the other.
Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
Listen, Thank you, love, of course, thank you for pioneering this.
I am really seeing the vision with having these conversations
with women. Obviously, before I saw no point in talking
to women.
Speaker 3 (01:01:59):
I just I just I know that.
Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
But but honestly speaking to you and having a bit
more information on like where you came from and like
how you get to where you are. And now I'm
really looking forward to talking to more women to understand
their origin story. And I've been telling the men. But
this is also that I can be a better husband
(01:02:24):
to Mela. This is all this these episodes, I can
understand people more.
Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
Yeah, not gonna be a better husband than everybody else.
Speaker 3 (01:02:34):
He's like, I'm about to make it look easy.
Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
Before we dip out of here, I want to I
want to stress this long so so.
Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
Much further because I don't want you to go.
Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
But before we get out of here, I can use
this time to dedicate some love to someone, anybody to like.
Speaker 3 (01:03:01):
Oh wow, I want to dedicate little some love to
my husband. He's been he's been juggling a lot and learning,
being much more expressive and sharing his feels, being more
(01:03:23):
aware of what they are. But it's also coming hand
in hand with just like a lot of changes, a lot,
and so just just love and appreciation to him. So
this one's for you, kid.
Speaker 2 (01:03:41):
That's beautiful because he ain't dedicating no love to you.
He told somebody else.
Speaker 3 (01:03:44):
No, he said, his tribe, don't be doing my band.
I know what the fun he said, I know what
the fuck? He said.
Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
I love your friend, I love you, and I love
our friendship and forget and I get you too.
Speaker 3 (01:04:01):
Hey, you guys. When I moved, he came over and
put up shelves and cooked for me.
Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
It was great. That's love. That's how I show my love.
Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
Yeah, yeah, if it was so dope, if I'm feeding you,
I got nothing but right hard for you.
Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
Love he would like to tell people where they can
find you and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (01:04:25):
Google me, baby, look up one of one oh Man.
Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
For us, we love like this love cast.
Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
If you want to follow us on Instagram and SUCHI
mom and dad.
Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
Let's honestly, if you look for w.
Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
H Underscore, Orlando Roy or look for Mila Underscore Map
Love like This or who SHEI mom and dad, all
four of those of us, I'm Mela Map as well
as She's.
Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
Listen.
Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
This has been great. I can't wait to do more
of these. I actually need to sit down with more women.
Speaker 3 (01:05:03):
Did you else you need some more? I really you
need me to give you, especially for this topic. I
can give you some yeah recommendation.
Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
This is why you're the best.
Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Yes, listen, lady, y'all love y'all
Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
Like this
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.