28: Love Is My Reality Ft. Ashley Wrightsway

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Like this, welcome back to love, like this, before, during, after,
and falling in love. I am your wonderful host, so beautiful,
so amazing, so wonderful, Orlando Roy, you like that.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
It's an agreement.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Today I'm sitting here with my wonderful friend, such a beautiful, beautiful,
beautiful person inside of now, Ashley, Ashley, what is your
rights way, Ashley Ashley? Right?

Speaker 2 (00:36):
I mean you can't go wrong with the right.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
Yeah, don't don't let me tone down the intro. I'm
very bad at making interest. That's what it sounds like this. Yeah,
but I'm very happy and excited for you to be here.
We were just chopping it up, just just chatting and
laughing so hard.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Just now, I can't stop smiling.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
One thing about be and you were gonna laugh. Baby.
I was trying to be call but I really can't
help yo. That's how she's sick of us. Listen, listen,
all right. To tell the truth, me and Ashley have

(01:16):
become so cool in such like not a short amount
of time because you know each other for a few years,
but really not a lot of experience because it didn't
really take much. And the way we fucking cackled me
hate it we're together because we just cackle and laughed
so hard and we laugh at everything, and our favorite
thing to laugh at is people.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, so yeah, I hate that I'm emitting that on camera.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
It's deserving, though, it's deserving. Me and me and Ash
right here. We went on a trip to what's that place, Tuskegee,
went to Tuskegee homecoming, and we had an amazing fucking time.
But but I will say this, being in the South
and a small town in the South is truly an experience. Yeah,

(02:06):
coming from big city folks.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
That's the cryptic messages for those who shall not be named.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
Because but we we went down to Tuscati's homecoming and
me and Ash we really click, like instantly. I mean,
this is ready our homie. We always had a great time,
but going on vacation with somebody is really the like
the a great way of finding out if you really

(02:41):
funk with somebody. And that's what that's what I loved
about it, experience I do.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
I love telling everybody I'm like, mirol so close. I
was like, now I feel so close to them. Those
are my best friends.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
Now as you really got a part of my heart.
We had a great time there. So thank you, thank
you so.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
Much, because I say my.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
Boundaries, Ashley's boundaries are exquisite, top notch, love it.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
I wish I had better ones Tuesdays.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
So we're going to get into all of that today.
Thank you forgotting me in today, thank you for sitting
with me and having this conversation. As you've seen from
these social clips, I've been having conversations with men about
like the origin of their love and just how it's
like affecting and showing up for them these days. I
wanted to do it because, you know, learning from men

(03:30):
and like having conversations with them, I have learned how
to become a better soon to be husband. And I
was just like, well, it makes only makes sense to
talk to the women too, not just talk to the men.
And I had one conversation already so far, and it
was magical and it was eye opening for me because
I got to see that women are also going down

(03:53):
a journey of trying to figure it out right, and
even in that one conversation, I also got to see
that just as we assume that boys should know how
to protect and provide without really any like real guidance,
we also I I and just like my worldview, have

(04:13):
realized that we expect women to be like nurturing and
caring and just know what the fuck to do. And
it's a very unfair pressure to put on women. And
I didn't really honestly noticed it until I had this
conversation with this woman just like a few months ago,
that had really dawned on me, like how we just
have these expectations of women themselves. That plus other great

(04:34):
stories and when you when everybody hears it, they'll hear
It's it was just so amazing. But having you here
and just talking to women, just knowing where they're coming
from is really an eye opening and having me understand
better about like women's perspective on love. That's so I'm
happy to have you here.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah, well we're already sweating. I'm like, I will not
be crying today and sweating, and I can talk about
those things, you know. I love sharing. I love telling
my stories and my thoughts and my perspective. So I'm
glad that I can, I think offer much a different

(05:11):
perspective because of my upbringing. And I'm excited too.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
And then that's another thing, because we had a slight
conversation about you upbringing when we're on in Tuskegee and
stuff like that, and just everybody just like getting to
know each other more, just having conversations. But this is
why I thought that you'd be great to speak to
about such topic and enlightenment.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
But I need to do one of those too. Hold, okay,
I'm ready to red.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
But so what was love like in your household? Like
growing up with your parents and family and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
Love and my household was actually I had the full spectrum. Yeah,
like I I really had a great childhood. Like I
had a great childhood, and it's because I was able
to access like the full spectrum of emotion and outpour

(06:12):
and receptivity of what love looks like in a multitude
of ways. So my father is a very let's take
it back. My parents are still married. So I grew
up in a two parent home. Okay, I grew up
in a two parent home.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
Black child, two parent home. Yeah you heard it here first.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
And they're still married. So we're talking three years nice,
I was still married. And then so I'm gonna say
this because I want to talk about it because it
plays a role and it provides a lot of context
to why I think and move the way they am.
But I'm also very aware of all the privileges that
I'm about to like throw up. Right. So my parents

(06:50):
are married. Also, I also didn't grow up poor. I
grew up in southern California. I have many siblings, and
I was raised with most of my siblings, even though
my mom had the last three of my father, I'm
number six of seven. They we were all very close.

(07:11):
And not only that my mother, I saw my mother
even take care of my other siblings mothers. So my
oldest siblings their pair that mother had Huntington's and every
time I went to visit my sister, my mom would clothe, feed,
care for essentially my dad's other baby mama. But that

(07:35):
was my sister's mother and therefore she was a big
part of our life. And then the same the second set,
like my other siblings mother, we called her Auntie. And
then on top of that, we traveled a lot, and
I grew up doing a lot of fun things, and
my father was in the music is in I was.
I think he's retired now maybe finally, and so we

(07:59):
were able to to just explore a lot of different things.
Resources allow you to do. And then my mother, coming
from a very Asian background, we were very extremely tight
knit Chinese. Okay, so her grandma's so, my grandma is

(08:20):
from I think I think she was born here, but
all her siblings and her mother was born in Cantown, China,
and so, but she's she married a black man. And
my father was actually very difficult to live with. But
my mother was like a saint. My mother was like
Mother Teresa, so very calm. I remember the first time

(08:40):
my mother said shit, when she said shit like angrily.
I remember that felt like trauma, like I can still
feel like like you like like I remember that feeling
like I cannot believe my mom like got there, you know.
So and then my dad he was screaming dumb motherfucker,

(09:01):
you know, like cursing and getting given ass whippings left
and right. So it was really interesting. But there was
a lot of love. There was a lot of love.
Like I mean, there was a time where we used
to be like, damn, you know, daddy ain't got nowhere
to go. He is driving, that's crazy, it's boot camp
when he here, he didn't, he don't, he don't got
no gigs or nothing. He don't you know, Like, so

(09:23):
my father was always there. He wanted to make sure
he was around so much. He put a studio in
the house. And I was like, oh my god, like
what but then so I don't know, like it was.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
It was a lot of like I have my dad
around all the time. Oh my god, isn't that crazy?
I just had an episode I was talking about I
spoke to my dad the most in the last three years,
and I spoken to m like the last fifteen or
something like that. And here you come with the my
dad was always around.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
He used to be like, go, way, isn't that crazy.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
Now you don't have another family or something.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
Give me some trauma, Like yes, because you are just
you are.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
It was boo, you were active.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
That's what it sounds like, doesn't it. I know. I'm like, hey,
I just to think right because I'm like and he
was mean.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
My dad was active. My mom never cursed. This house sucks, please.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
Know what I And that's the crazy part because he
was so mean. You would have thought we had a
terrible job. Like he was so mean. He was given
ask what was if we didn't get a's, you know,
And there was a lot of discipline I can say
he was a huge disciplinarian, A lot of things that
I remember hate growing up, like I strongly implement them
in my household now. So I don't know, I mean

(10:49):
but there, but it was it was, you know what,
it didn't have a lot of though in my immediate family,
meaning like my mom and my dad was a lot
of touch. Okay, wasn't a lot of affection. And I
remember growing to I went to college. I went to college,
and I was in college and I don't know, I

(11:09):
remember I had a partner, a boyfriend. Somebody was like,
you're not very affectionate. And I was like, what, Like
I remember that, Like what are you talking about? I'm
not very affectionate? And I remember I did not like that.
I did not like being told that because I saw
myself or someone who was a good lover and a
really good girlfriend. And so I was like, what, well,
that's that's not good. That's not good to not be

(11:31):
affectionate to your to your partner. And so I remember
I just fixed it like just like that. I was like, Okay,
well I'm gonna start being more affectionate.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
I'm going to touch everybody.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
And now I'm weird right now, I'm a person that
makes it weird like.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
You said that. The engagement too was like I want
to hug out.

Speaker 2 (11:50):
Make it weird, you know, because he was like I grewup.
I'm like, this is my time to shine, right Like
I love that kind of stuff now. And everybody would say, like, Ashley,
so affectionate, affectionate, like my partners would say that I'm
so affectionate. But I wasn't always that way, and I
knew it was part of my upbringing because my brother
called me one time and I think I was still

(12:10):
in college and he was like, hey, can I ask
you something? And I'm like, yeah, it's up. He's like,
have you been told it? You're not affectionate? And I
was like, oh my god, bro, I just went through this.
I just had a conversation about this and I started
doing it. I was like, yeah, we we weren't very
like hugged on a lot or like oh you know,
like how you doing rob And my mom would like

(12:30):
give us little pats on her butt, like hey should
be like hey dd, that's what she used to call me,
pat me on my butt. But it wasn't like a
lot of hugging a lot of like hugs will type
like I love you, I love you that there wasn't
a lot of that in the immediate home, but my
mom's side, they were very affectionate, so we weren't lacking
affection per se, but growing up it just wasn't a

(12:51):
lot of it or that was our go to. And
so I told my brother. I was like, yeah, bro,
I just had that happen to me too, and have
that conversation. You just got to start doing it because
it helps your person feel loved and and that's a
good thing and it actually feels really nice and you
should get into it.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
And then that was it beautiful. That's what happened. When
you have a privilege, your race privilege, you get access
the emotions and figure it out quick.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
Let me tell you, though, it has been I know
this is gonna sound so weird, and I'm gonna try
to cry because if I don't have to pop my
girl out and really get the talking. My upbringing though,
makes me feel so other. In relationships like it, it

(13:37):
is been posing a challenge to like meet specifically you know,
like our black brothers, and so this is in love
ship to where there's like I just trigger so much.
I'm so triggering.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
You don't you don't have the natural trauma bond I
mean most of us have unfortunate well fortunately, but it's
it's it happens like there's well coming to La. I'm
realizing the and living in the valley, that meeting like
black people that live and like raised here but raised

(14:17):
in white spaces. They miss out on like the high
school table talk conversations at black all black schools, and
like me being raised in like Brooklyn and being in
an all black school like that you have and that
you already know to have so that when you get older,
you're not saying the dumb shit because you already had
these conversations at high school and you realized at a
younger age why it's dumb to say so, Like, as

(14:39):
you're an adult, I feel like people that aren't trauma
bonded and like living in like this that the black
experience in America when you kind of like raise in
a white space, like you miss out on like a
lot of those conversations. So when you come across and
just say like, well, why don't you guys just do this,
like yes, I know what you're talking about.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
That's exactly what that was.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
Like, why it's like you no, because we already talked
about this in the seventh grade. White black people can't
do this for you at twenty six and not getting.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, I'm now turning forty this year, and I'm like,
I think it was just in these past few years.
I had to have a friend who was really like, hey,
it doesn't you really like do you have to give grace?
And you have to really understand that everybody can just
like take information and just apply it like that, yeah,
because I'm like it, if you know, then just do
it right, Like you can just do that, But they

(15:32):
have there's so many blockages and boundaries, like you said,
having not been able to access the full spectrum motion,
to be able to be heard, or to have a voice,
or have audacity to be like no, that's okay, right,
like that that's not okay. And that's not to say, like,
you know, having a dad who was given ass whippins
is like, ah, it was awful, it was awful, right,
But when.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
You comparison in comparison, and then sometimes even when you
say like oh, well you're not very affectionate, you don't
touch much, and you could just go Okay, well I'll
just touch more. Somebody else will go well, I do
want to touch more, but then I have these memories
and have these experiences from being trauma traumatized so bad
that I have to overcome before I even reach out

(16:12):
and touch somebody. So where you can access and just go,
all else is do it. Most of us have to
overcome something else before we can do the thing, and
that's where the privilege of not having those traumas comes in.
I feel for you. I feel for you because you're
actually what we all like aspire to be. You're the
child that we all aspire to have that you know

(16:34):
you don't have, and you don't have these traumas and
similar to you in this I just remember what I
wanted to talk about earlier was the fact that at
Tuskege we called you an asexual lesbian. Yeah, what you
said was a great like explanation for like how you
go about things. But I relate to you in the
sense of, well, to explain the asexual lesbian thing, it's

(16:57):
not that you literally are. It's just that you actually
would come to find out, you actually enjoy everything except
for the intercourse part. It's just not really.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
High on the high on the priority list.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
Right, It's similar for me. Now, I'm a guy, so
I'm great at the intercourse parts and we're gonna get
to there. But out of all the things on the
spectrum of sex, the intercourse part is actually the least
interesting part for me as well. So that's why I
understand where you're coming from in relation to you. I
in my immediate family, it wasn't a lot of like

(17:29):
physical affection like hugs showing like hey, I love you,
let me embrace you in some type of way, like
I don't. I don't even remember being tucked in in
my child. I probably remember two or three times total
I was tucked in, but there was not a lot
of like physical acts to show I love Orlando. So
but I would get that outside in my immediate family.

(17:49):
So that's how I knew like physical touch was important
and needed. Yeah, and so on the other end, I
was very touchy as a child with every body. Well
not in a creepy way, but like but like I
want hugs. I like the hug, I like to hold
hands and like stuff like that. And then it shows
up even now because you you even like see how

(18:09):
I am when my friends and the women in my life.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
I love that for all of us.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
Yeah, yeah, I love it for all of us. But
how how how was it like post figuring that out
and your life just being like very affectionately physical with
everyone After having that conversation with that person and your brother.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
The affection, I like kind of grew into being this
affectionate where it's like, oh, like embracing everyone and like
making it we're with my friends because I'm just older
and I understand intimacy differently. Yeah, and I love accessing
the wide range of what intimacy looks like. And it's

(18:54):
not just for my physical romantic lover. This is for like,
my friends are just I always have to tell people
my friendship are just as intimate, as intimate as my
love ships. Yeah they are. Everybody has to show up.
Everybody has to show up, and that probably leans more
into like the privilege.

Speaker 1 (19:14):
I don't care about. You have to show up, you
have to.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
But I lately this this coming into last year, I've
had two people this within this last year, and I
don't have like a lot of best best best best friends.
So my best friends who I talk to all the
time literally made a point to tell me I really
value how you require us to show up, that that
the type of love that you give us and the

(19:39):
way that you hold us accountable, and that you also
want to be held accountable, and that you want to
talk about all the things is not just for your lover,
that it is that you require and you make us
show up too, and like thank you for having that
teaching us, like having us be in practice of this
type of love.

Speaker 1 (19:55):
I mean to be honest with you, I don't see
your privilege of love and emotions as a bad thing.
I think that you hold love to a different standard now, right,
Like it's is I'm trying to give a good analogy
when when black creatives are told like, you know, you
can only get paid this amount, right, and then there's
that one black creative that's like, yah, niggas is wild

(20:18):
tens of thousands of dollars to ask for your worth
and you're like, I can't ask for my worth. They're
going to tell me. No, you're the person that's like
fuck that. I come from a world where we ask
for our worth. And yeah, so like the good thing
about you, like I said earlier, you know you were
the kid that we inspire to raise right to have
that audacity and that privilege to go, no, you're black,

(20:42):
but you still have more.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
One of the biggest things my best friend, she used
to tell me, did you tell them? Did you tell
your current partner that you're about to flip the whole
world upside down? She literally makes me give out that
disclaimer into everybody and me because I will into a
story that they think is very normal, and I'm like,

(21:05):
you know, that's not okay. You know that's that's that's
harm babe, Like that's not okay, Like that's not can
we like what do we you know? Like, oh, okay,
well and so, But of course, when that becomes a
big part of like how they see the woman they
built the foundation on, these harms or these abuses, are

(21:26):
these traumas and their sense of self, And especially if
I'm just trying to say like, hey, that wasn't okay.
I didn't like that, all they can hear is, oh,
you don't like me, Oh you're attacking my character or
you're attacking I'm like, no, no, I just this behavior, this
certain action didn't feel good. It wasn't okay. And that's
been really challenging for me as an a I think

(21:47):
probably always, but definitely as an adult to really like
navigate loveship with someone where I'm like this, this doesn't
feel good. I'm and I've been allowed to say this
doesn't feel good, and I've been taught that to say
this and feel good and trying to balance that out,
especially now on social media where everything is like, oh

(22:07):
they did this, leave goodbye? And I didn't have that
growing up. That was not the story that was told
to me. Actually, like even in my relationship with my
youngest father, there was a lot of disconnect on what
love looked like. And I remember my aunt telling me,
and I've actually two people like another wise woman who

(22:31):
I sought counsel from, and then my aunt was basically like,
we don't leave the people we love alone. You know. However,
to somebody who has experienced a lot or like when
they're the avoidant, right and they're like the idea of
not being left alone is crazy, right, like why are you?
Why are you loving on me like this? Why are you? Like,

(22:52):
please stop, don't try to talk to me about it,
like I don't this is this feels unsafe for me,
So I don't even know where I was going with that,
Oh yes. So then with that being said, I I
get sad a lot now, Like I have tears about
like when I listen ooh, I can feel it out.

(23:15):
I get sad when I see online. I'm talking to
so many women And just recently I listened to a
mom crying about how she's so sad about the way
black men and men in particular are like handling her.
And I've been saying the same thing with like just
semi close knit. It's not something I talk about out
loud because I'm not in the business of bringing black

(23:36):
men down. You already know how I feel about that,
Like I just I don't. And I'm like, but who
everybody's just like all right, disperse, goodbye, Like you don't
got it, goodbye, you did this wrong, goodbye? And but
like where is the line? Like we're like, how do
we determine where we practice compassion and grace and where's

(23:56):
just not alignment? And then I was just saying, also,
when when do we like if everybody is just disconnecting
and saying oh, thank you, then like who's showing us differently?

Speaker 1 (24:10):
Yeah, you're not wronging up differently?

Speaker 2 (24:13):
And so and so a person like myself. I'm like,
all right, because I saw and it really kicked in
differently once I had children, because I think something psychologically
kicked in mentally when I had kids, where I just
started emulating my mom. When the challenge with that is
I'm emulating my mother who you know, held it down,
hold on, you know, like we'll figure it out. Being patient,

(24:34):
will discuss that a different day in a marriage, and
I'm applying that to situations.

Speaker 1 (24:43):
Bars too high, breaking down a little bit, but like or.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
Of just showing up and just like okay, well, let
me maybe if I explain this to you, or if
I demonstrate something different and I'm just like, it can't.
I don't know, right, Like I don't know anymore. I
don't know how to date. I don't know. And I

(25:12):
pride myself. I pride myself on my communication. I love
to be able to talk about feelings and I love
to to just be and exist and share and smile
and that that now I'm I'm receiving the you know,
the trauma vonds that you have like ouch, ouch, this

(25:32):
really hurts now, and then I'm starting to I now
have the feeling and I didn't have a lot of
that growing up and now at this big age, now
I'm questioning myself more than I ever have, and I'm like,
why did they do that? Who does that? And then
I still I feel ultra disrespected at this stage of

(25:54):
my life. It's like I'm somebody's mother. I had two
little kids, Like like, what what possessed you? Or convince
you that this was okay? At this stage to do this,
it's like if you don't want to leave me alone,
like what would make you do that? And then of
course always there's that accountability, and I'm so good that
because I had two parents where you know, you were

(26:14):
responsible for yourself. Be greater, be nothing, be excellent, or
death to the family lineage right back the way, I
grow like disgrace to their family always. And then my
dad also because he is a musician and he was
like perfection and genius in that way, and he grew
up with in the forties in Mississippi, so it was

(26:34):
colored steet white sink, so it was like you have
to be ten times better than everybody else, right, And
now it's also that like where I am really good
at looking at myself and I'm like, okay, well it's
your fault. So then I'll beat myself up really bad
for even allowing certain things, even though it's part, you know,
like now to in my relationships. One of the things
that I had to become aware of is that I

(26:56):
will even not really like require my lover to do
as much because I'm so good at filling up my
own cup.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
Yeah, yeah, you.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
Know, I'm so good at it.

Speaker 1 (27:10):
Oh man, what a what a spectrum to navigate.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
So I really don't know. I like, I'm now online
looking at dating coaches, like maybe I should really get
one and try to figure out where I fall in here. Right, Yeah,
I'm really good at feeling at my own cup.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
You know it's interesting because I'm laughing at myself because
I said, you know, it's interesting, and I was like,
is it really interesting? But I was gonna say it's
interesting because in speaking to you and saying how like, hey,
you know you grew up with a privilege, I don't
feel like the necessarily the push to talk about you.

(27:47):
I feel the push to talk about everybody else in
that moment. It's like, hey, you grew up in a
privileged space, but everybody else is lacking. Not you're lacking,
You're actually what we're striving to be is just that
you know, our trying is just so interwined into our
DNN because of like how we grew up that it's
so hard to like even feel like we're over where
you are. But I totally understand. But it's like kind

(28:10):
of funny to say that it's like not you, everybody else, And.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
That's true because an astrologer said you're Libra's and venus,
so it's not you, just like I'm telling you, it's
not you, it's everyone else. But I really will, like, Okay,
but I put a lot of responsibil on myself to
fear out how can I elevate my love shifts with
the people that I want? And I just I work
so hard right now, I wish I could cry, but

(28:37):
I think I'm cried out on the topic. I work
so hard to not be angry like the other party,
like of just like why why does love have to
be this bad for us? You know, why does connection

(28:57):
have to be this bad for us? And so now
I just wake up and I'm pretty sure this has
a lot to do with once again the privilege of
having knowing that someone always had my back, right or
just knowing everything was always gonna work out for me
because like I just get up and I say, that's
not my reality. M hm, that's not my reality. That's
not my reality, right, Like I don't want to manifest

(29:17):
that I'm just gonna constantly be running into like these
broken men or women or there's just you know, like
fucked up and I have to figure out how to
constantly unfuck them, you know, like and yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (29:28):
Well, you know, there's there's more and more people like
being born in the world. Like it's harder to find
your person before when it's only like six thousand people
on earth, Like it's a bit easier now you got
six million, Like you're gonna come across way more. I think, Well,
I think because I know niggas be fucking up in
this world. But I think when we lead with grace, right,

(29:49):
and like now knowing of like okay, I'm dating a
black man, right, I am probably going to come across
some instances that are like where things are going to
come up for this person. It's going to be something
that's going to have to be navigated through this dating
experience and going in with that, and then when the

(30:10):
instance comes up, knowing like Okay, this is this compatible,
is this instance and what I got to work through
with this black man compatible with my personality can actually
help the situation or is this way too in deep
for me and they need to figure it out themselves,
which also goes back to the like the like I
guess break apart culture of just like leaving things alone

(30:32):
as soon as it goes bad, because I think we've
gotten to a point as black people where we've realized
that looking to the other person to help ourselves isn't.
The answer is to like, oh, if you're at this,
you're at this point of her and trauma, you need
to go figure that out. And then when you get

(30:52):
to a certain point, then we can come back and
convene together, yeah, and help each other out. But to
answer what you has said earlier, like you know who's
helped in the black men, it's like, you know, it's
you who who can realize and tell people like, no,
that's not okay. It's me as a black man that
can go, yeah, I know the herd is there, my brother,
but there's a better way. And then it's like, you know,
it's platforms like this that constantly talk about love and

(31:13):
realizing that there's actually a lot of pain and things
that we had to overcome as black people, but the
love is still there.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
And similar to like money, we just needs to change
our perspective in our relationship with love and money for
us to make it to that place of all being
healthy together. I just killed that.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
Because I also want to say, like, I know that
I have my shit. No, and you know, I think
the difference is I'm okay with talking about it. I'm
okay with one to ddress it. I'm okay with like
applying like, oh okay, I'm gonna pick up the book.
I'm gonna talk to my friends. Even then, right, even
that within itself is I love to seek wise counsel.

(31:55):
I love to talk about it. I be like, hey,
what do you think about this? You know, like, hey,
where can I get supporting here? I want to be great.
I want to be better. And I know that's also
just not having the trauma of being like you don't
tell everybody your business? Yeah, Like, no, that's not That's
not how I grew up. I mean, listen, if I could,

(32:15):
we were all about community and not only that, it
was such the way we do it right, Like we
can have a cousin who is beefing with another cousin
or our aunties like my aunties could be beefing. Right.
It is something that is talked about at the whole
Thanksgiving gathering, right Like it is like the prayer. As
soon as we gotta go prayer food, it's gonna be
brought up in the prayer. It is brought up in

(32:36):
the prayer, and we all know what's happening, and we
all just show up. Like literally, it's a whole thing
where the cousins will take each one's side and then
we got to come together. It's never been anything where
we're just under talking to each other about each other,
under each other's breath like that, we come together, we
literally talk about it.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
I mean the good thing. Oh, thank thank you. I'm
happy that your family dynamic has that. I feel like
I'm teaching you about black people.

Speaker 2 (33:02):
Yo. Can I tell another story really quick before you
say that? Because I had to be on a panel,
I had to be. I hate this story because I've
never my freaking light. I had to go talk on
a panel. And of course it was about like mothering
or whatnot. It was a black queen of fool was
there the whole night, right, and so me, I'm on

(33:23):
one side. It's like four other moms elderly. They're elders,
like a little auntie is slightly older than me, and
they're like, all right, how did your relationship with your
mother shape the way that your parent now? So I'm like, oh, yeah, listen,
my mother loved me down right. We did the listen this.
I was like, matter of fact, I still love to
hang out with my mom. My aunt calls me and

(33:44):
she's like, I just wanted you to know your mother
loves it back to you and bite her places. I'm like,
my mom still helps you with my laundry, you know, like,
and everybody was looking. They listened, and they were like, listen,
did not judge yo. Everybody after that at troubled relationships
with their mother and how this is not funny. This

(34:06):
is not funny, Orlando. They all had troubled relationships, and
so they were talking about how that changes and how
they're more mindful in the way that they parent. And
of course I'm raising really audacious little white girls. They're
so everyone's like, they're so polite, and they're so kind,
they're so loving. I'm like, yeah, because my mom, my mom,
I get you know. When they were done, I felt
like I needed to find some trauma and I did it.

(34:32):
I found one. I was like, I gotta find something
wrong with my mom. So I found it, and I
was like, I just I just Hey, that's not to say, guys.
But after all that handed insert myself back in there.
I raised my hand like, hey, I bring the mike
back over here. There was some fucked up shit too,

(34:54):
And that's I'm talking about how the way I view
my mother in relationship with my right, like, I felt
like my mom dad she getting forced personally, and so
the way that she saw strength and what that taught
me whatever anyway, So that's I felt the need I
had to say that I had never felt so tone
deaf in my life. And then then so like, I

(35:17):
bring this up because in this moment, it's like a
similar feeling. I'm like, no, i'm black to, I'm black to,
and my my traumas were just a little different. But
I had to explain to someone about why things aren't
as traumatic for me, right, and I use this really
good story about Shannon swimming. Right, Shannon swam and then

(35:39):
I remember her like getting decued she got decued, right,
and she could have got out this water and I
could have been on her head like what was that,
you know, like, da, you're no good, you suck whatever,
And that could have been a trauma for her. Right
she gets out the water, she's like, wow, I'm not
good enough. You know, I made a mistake and now

(36:00):
I'm getting my butt handed to me for this mistake.
And she's already beat her sad about the fact she
got DEQ. But instead, you know, it doesn't have to
be the trauma's already to do the Q. But I
can just say, how do you feel about that? Okay,
Well we could just do a better next time, like
put keep your head in the game, give it us.
Did you leave it all out on the water? Good?
That's it? Right? And then now the idea of getting

(36:20):
to cute is no longer a thing. It's gone. And
I think because of the whatever instance that could have
been so traumatic for me, we're handled with so much care. Yeah,
you know, like like that people showed up, or that
my family showed up because we're so close knit, and
but yeah, it's.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
Because it's because you're shown better. Right, And I'm gonna
say this and then I'm gonna get to the analogy. Okay,
the reason why black people don't talk is because talking
about shit usually ends in violence, right, because talking in
the sense of like figuring it out. And that's because
you've had a good example of when chick goes bad,

(37:01):
somebody will talk to you. Usually our examples I'm I
was born in the Caribbean, was one of Jamaica, So
my example of communication is very loud and a lot
of yelling and usually some physical aggression with it. So
when it comes to the point of talking about talking
for resolution, we don't know how to do that without
adding aggression to it and not realizing that's not really

(37:24):
the way you go to navigate to like get to
the resolution that you want, i e. Your your Thanksgiving
and your cousins may having conflict and so yeah, when
when usually speaking leads to violence, we don't speak because
the possibility is there. Now, the analogy of all of

(37:47):
this is it's like when you drink soda all the
time and then you have that glass of water, that
refreshing glass of water, and it feels like it hurts
because you're actually finally having something that's good for you,
but your body has both up a tolerance and an
acceptance to all this like bad toxic things that's for you,

(38:07):
that when you finally have something that's good for you,
it feels odd and it feels off. You are the
glass of water in my friend. And so yes, I
understand where you know, in a in a twelve pack
of ginger rale like poland spring doesn't fit in. But
that doesn't mean to say that you are bad for everybody.

(38:29):
And and I'm to wrap this all up, I don't
think you should feel bad. I understand where you may
feel different, but you know I'm a an immigrant that
was born and raised in Brooklyn that I was in
the valley. Trust me, I feel I feel awkward whenever
I go into a sushi restaurant and see it's all
white people there, Like I'm not used to like this too,

(38:51):
but like we all have like our spaces that are different,
but that doesn't mean that we're the one that's wrong.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
I'm so literally like when I tell you I had
an ex partner, and tell me exactly what you just said,
and I'm like, and so he said to me, he said,
your love feels like poison because I'm because the taste
is so bitter because I'm not used to it.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
But actually you're actually the antidote.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
Yeah, and he's able to say all that, and he
told me that at the same time, it doesn't and
this is me and me like, no, give me some pity. Right,
it wasn't that great. It wasn't nothing great over I
have doubt. It's like I am easily I've had partnership.

(39:44):
They don't have to show up because I'm so good
at it. They're like, no, like you they were like,
do you saw my trauma? You saw what I have
going through? You know what my my upbringing was like,
so why are you expecting me to show up? You?
You you got it. You're good at it. You're good it,
So just be And I'm like, but I'm I'm left
to just be by myself, like I'm left to oftentimes

(40:07):
in the partners that I have been with, and not
all of them, I've had also really good relationships too,
right that it doesn't It doesn't feel good though, to
feel so other or like and I can't resonate with
so many of us in love ship right outside of
just cackles and jokes. You know, No, Okay, so hey,

(40:29):
that hurt you or what's coming up for you. Let's
talk about it.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
What well, I mean, what if I said that that's
not really you. It's just that's the spectrum of men
dating that if you had dramas to you still be
going going up against the same problems.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
Yeah, I agree, because niggas, yo, I can't get.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
Whether you were a good woman, no no triggers, no traumas,
or or you were triggered your whole life. Niggas, I don't.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
Want That's not my reality. That's not my reality. I'm
not doing this to myself. I'm tired. I'm tired. I'm
tired Orlanda like, you're like the best thing that ever
happened to us, and I were like, and you.

Speaker 1 (41:17):
Know what, well, I'll tell you this. Imagine being the
guy right that's recognizes all the toxic shit, recognizes all
the bad shit that's going on in the world, as
far as like what black men are like giving and
wants to do better, wants everybody to do better. And
it's sitting here and niggas are not doing better. It's hard,
Like it's really hard being a sort of a friend.

(41:39):
We're talking about how it's hard living in the world
of being smart and also being aware of what's going
on around you, Like, it's terrifying. And then so when
I see the women that are in my life friends
platonically and I see them like aspiring for love and
knowing the men that's out there, it's terrifying to be like, yeah,

(42:00):
go date. I think you should probably not, but you're
only gonna find one if you go out there.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
Like, yeah, my mom legit said, she's like, I think
you should start like think about dating outside of black Yeah,
it's like what and not to say that they're all
going to be just like the most awesome people are
not saying that. She's just like, I think you should
just like expand like be a little more expansive there
or just go elsewhere.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
I mean, as a woman that is expansive with expansive
outside of her own people, like, I could understand why
she would say that. I mean, and then it sucks
because honestly, that's not even an answer because you know,
every every other people is going to like find a
reason to be an asshole in some type of way.
But I mean, it's like it's not it's like kind

(42:45):
of like knowing that you know, I understand where this
is coming from from this black man, and now you
just understand, like is this compatible for me or not?
And do I am? I gonna no, You're not gonna
take it. There's a homeless man stand in front of
a truck that's stopping the truck and blocking blocking traffic.
I really like having this window open, as that background

(43:05):
here is really good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry,
but yeah, no, it's just it's just honestly knowing and
being in the know and know where that's It's kind
of sad but also kind of helpful at the same time. Yeah,
I didn't mean to cut you up, but we've been
going on this like origin of your privilege, we can

(43:27):
give it, but no, no, I do, I do honestly,
I do like that you've come from this like upbringing
because I, like I said earlier about making money as
a black person in America, you have to have some
level of audacity, and then you have to have also
an example of a level of audacity, and you were
all that example that we kind of need to know,

(43:49):
like yo, that audacity and that level of love is attainable.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
You know that's true. I guess that's also why miss
right became a thing. Right, I had the audacity to
show love and this grand way in a very connected way,
and because I wanted to show black women like, hey
there's this is an option for us.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
Is yeah, we have options. We have options, right, Okay,
beautiful privilege off green. We all wish we had it. Right,
you're the You're the black kid in the culvid sac. Okay,
by her dad who was always around. By the way,

(44:30):
what was what was like your first love, leg.

Speaker 2 (44:37):
My first first, first first love. I was like eleven
years old, okay, and it was this guy and he
sold drugs.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
We're already okay, go ahead, let's get to it.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
We're talking about my gangster boyfriend. Okay, my gangster boyfriend.
That was my boyfriend. But he was my boyfriend, all right.
And this is so important because I know how it
is showing up today. So one of the things is
I was really young, and we didn't do anything until
I was like maybe sixteen or seventeen. It's like, I

(45:12):
guess he found himself waiting, right because I was a
child and he was only a year or two old.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
He was like the same as my brother, My brother,
you're too older than you. You're eleven. So he's a
twelve preteen early teen drug dealer.

Speaker 2 (45:26):
Yeah, he's in high school though, like I remember meeting.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
Him around thirteen in high school.

Speaker 2 (45:31):
No, it's twelve years old, so you had to have
been like fourteen.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
Okay, so he's.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
Like ninth grade maybe, yeah, I think so, like ninth grade.
And he was like big time. He had cars, he
I mean, and we had a relationship to the point
where if my mom couldn't take us and my dad's
at the time, my mom couldn't take us to choir
rehearsal or to like our dance class, he had a
car and he would take us.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
Okay, right, sl I'm locked in.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
Okay, this is serious. But he was a hood dude.
He was a hood dude who just was really good
at gambling. Had the way his system was set up,
he had a lot of access to like I DS DMV,
you know, the whole nine. Right. This was not your
your basic, little little sacky person on the corner. Okay,

(46:18):
With that being said, he lied to me a lot.
He lied to me a lot, and I remember like
he would be like, oh, I'm gonna come get you today,
and he wouldn't come get me or I'm going to
do this, and I know just just hear me, am

(46:39):
like I'm gonna do this, and and he wouldn't come
and damn not feeling like I gotta talk about my daddy. Okay,
let's go. And I remember this coming up because I
was I finally stopped talking to him, like this is

(46:59):
one those situations where literally I want to say, it's
probably been a year now where I have completely blocked him.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
The first love, ex boyfriend from twelve years old. Yeah, wow, beautiful, Okay, I.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
Just blocked him. And not because we were still intimate
over the years. No, it's just like he was my
best friend. He was my best friend and he showed
up for me, like whatever I needed. I remember I
needed books in college and he helped me get books
and if my family needed stuff for the car, computers.
He was that person. But he would lie a lot
to me, and not on top of that, he had

(47:30):
a girlfriend and probably another girlfriend, and he kept popping
up with babies on me and all these things. All
these things right, but it never changed how I showed up.
It just didn't no matter what he did. Like I remember,
he would just come and be like, oh, here's I say.
I remember he's like, I'm gonna take you to school today.
I was like in high school, He's I'm gonna take

(47:51):
you to school. I was like, all right, bet he's
like showed up a little baby in the car. Well
he mind, we already did the grown up, right, And
so I'm like, oh, who's the baby. I was like,
who's the He was like mine, I'd like, shut up right,
go to school. He's like, Okay, I'm gonna go pick
you up for our school. Because I guess he knew,
like she doesn't believe that that's my baby in the
car and long fact that was his baby. And then
literally he did it to me again and like I

(48:15):
just don't have kids. And I remember, I don't know
if I ever got like like if it mattered because
I loved him, yeah you know, or I don't know.
I don't know. It just it never changed anything. So
fast forward down to me as an adult, my tolerance

(48:37):
for a lot of things of just I don't know.
And I think I think for a while, for a while,
I was trying to recreate that feeling that I would
have when I was with him, that like that's my
best friend, and he loves me, and like no matter
what he did or did, like I always still felt

(48:58):
very important and still very loved, and like one of
the things that no matter what he he would still
listen to me, like I still had a voice. Like
if he felt like my feelings were hurt, he cared
that my feelings were hurt. I know this sounds odd.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
No, actually it sounds very normal given your upbringing, because
the things that were deemed important to you in your
household was still being upheld in this relationship. And so
it's not like you were ignorant to the other things
that were happening. Is that you were being filled with
the things that you were seeing growing up and what

(49:36):
was deemed as important, and so that's what your body
took his love. It just essentially makes sense because I
think growing up as a black person, your love is
intertwined with the actions and the things that they do

(49:57):
for you. Like I say, like you know, of course
I love you. I'm paying the bills, got food, and
you got food and on on the plate, and you
got and you got clothes on your back. Right, these
are all action based things. So in your instance, your
sense of love is Oh, he's listening to me. He'll
take care of me in like certain type of ways.

(50:18):
He gives me a voice. Yeah, he's he's God. What
is the fucking word when somebody's there for you consistent?
You know, Black people don't have people there for them
that much.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
I repeat that the reality that.

Speaker 2 (50:36):
It's not reality. I will will it.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
But but what I don't think things are necessarily more
so like action based for you. It's like space based,
like oh he's giving me, he's getting he's taking time
out of his day for me, he's taking time out
to listen to what I'm saving those things times.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
Those emotional Yeah, those emotional like or.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
Right rather than I guess I don't know if gift
giving or like actions and stuff like that is what's
really setting in for you and why you showing up
and loving this person is important Where I was trying
to find that now in today's world where black people
are more so like action based is different. So I
don't think that you're weird or it is weird. I

(51:26):
think it actually makes more sense than anything.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
Yeah, and so that's probably and that is like I
don't know, I feel like now my brain is so
scrambled at so many things and non feeling a certain
kind of way because now you're gonna see these perfections
them coming out now films, an't I had. I just
knew I was gonna come in here and drop some gems, right, Like,
I just knew I was gonna be like and then
I want to talk about this And I'm like, nope,
we're not talking about none.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
Of that now when you're talking to me. I'm the therapist, yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
And I'm like, no, I had the privilege, chocol and
I'm just like, and now there's just so many pockets.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
Of just like mm hmm, because I mean even we
all have our honestly, even with the trauma bonding things,
Like the privilege is that is I have a community
of people that understand me from birth well even having
to say anything at all, the other side of it,
I have a lot of trauma. It's just like all
of us. So it's like I've heard people who say, like,
you know, they go into dating thinking like it's going

(52:25):
to be like their parents, and they're the ones that
get their heartbroken the most because their parents had like
a love at first sight, they were loved high school sweethearts.
They were married young, and they had babies. They always
had their parents there, and then they come out to
the real world with the dogs and the men just like, yeah,
that's nice. Yeah, but the fuck it, I'm not gonna

(52:46):
call you.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
Back, right, I like, that's so odd for me. I
have such a huge tolerance these days.

Speaker 1 (52:56):
Oh sorry, I didn't even. I don't even. But it's
to say that we all, in different ways, have our
privileges and our hindrances at the same time. So yeah,
you you might see that when dating black men, you'll
see your privilege splattered all around, but you know you're
in do you have hindrances there as well, which actually
makes you more like us than anything.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
Because I am black, Because I am I started saying
nigga in college.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
Okay, yes you did, yes you did.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
Yeah, And even now, like even now, I'm navigating this
dynamic where I don't know, like the things I don't know,
I feel as if i'm but then that plays a
role in just litigation, like the way that I'm navigating
left ship. I've been freestyling, right, I've been trying new things,

(53:53):
and one of the new things that I've been trying
is being able to access pleasure in a different dynamic
that doesn't require like we go together, I'm your girlfriend,
your my friend and all the things, and I'm like, no,
I'm not built for this. I'm not good at it.
I'm not good at it. I don't like it here.
There's not enough care, there's not enough consideration. And yet

(54:16):
even with all that being said, I still find myself
showing up in a dynamic that doesn't really feel good.
And that's not unlike me.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
Yeah, but I mean that's that's that's how you learn
what dynamic is for you.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
Yeah, right, it's changing. Things have changed, especially after litigation.
I was just meeting or trying something different and kind
of regrouping serve. It's not even that deep. I'm not
gonna try and make it saying like all this trauma
from somebody who's dragging me down. That's in the case.
It feels like it. Yeah, it's not a bad date, right.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
But if I were to give like any feedback or
to say anything back, is that you know, it's maybe
instead of viewing these things of like, hey, I have
I've had these things growing up, and the person that
I'm doing or somebody similar to me and my race
hasn't had these things, but going into it as I've
had these things. But what can I learn from you?

Speaker 2 (55:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (55:12):
Like what can I get from? What? What did you
have that I did it? And I can learn from?
Which is essentially what you know? How are you supposed
to go about dating?

Speaker 2 (55:19):
It's true, there's a lot of things I've been learning,
this one in particular teaching me I have like the
audacity to just be like this, what I said, what
I said. Yeah, I'm like because I'm used to seeing
my mom like, okay, let's figure out how we can
like have understanding on both sides and see where you like,
that's where you know everybody can hearn and look for

(55:40):
fair and and interesting enough because people know me to
have such a big voice about like no, not okay.
But when I'm in these partnerships, I'm like.

Speaker 3 (55:50):
Okay, I'm okay, Well I think or just maybe per as.

Speaker 2 (56:02):
Right, and.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
Well, you know, we've I feel like we've come down
hard on you with all of these and and we
kind of are because I personally come down hard on
mixed kids. All you don't got to mix, but it's
mentality of mixed kids. Are I'm learning the mentality of
mix kids in la Are it's but barkers. But that's

(56:28):
a whole other story in itself. But coming down hard
on you. But I do know you as a person
and you do have like a lot of loving aspects
about you. But I don't want you to say what
about you makes you very lovable?

Speaker 2 (56:43):
What about me makes me very lovable? I'm inviting, okay,
because I want to love, like I like, I like
practicing love. I really enjoy practicing love. I love you know.

(57:06):
What also I think makes me lovable, at least I
hear it from a lot of like romantic interests, is
that I have very doe eyes. Oh yeah, you know
they're like I feel like you're gonna crack up. That
nigga said to me. He's like, I could tell it's
not a lot of.

Speaker 4 (57:24):
Trauma like those big, watering cartoony eyes.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
It's three people. I've always said it to me, and
they like, you still look at the world like very innocently, like.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
You're gonna treat me well. I can see it right.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
One nigga tell me he was like, I was like, hey,
I don't this doesn't feel good. I don't think this
is working oh, He's like, so you're just gonna go
this is gonna lie to you because you just want
to lie. He's like, you're just gonna get you. That's
just gonna lie. I just want to tell you all the

(58:10):
sweet things for a good year, so you get what
you want. He's like, that's what he's like. I know
because I was a bit jazz nigga. I've been a
bit jazz nigga. So and come find out.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
Like, take your advantage of my dobey eyes.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
You're just so. But I think that's one of the
things that make me lovable.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
It's like when looking at you and when it comes
to the navigating like romance with you, you can see
that you're coming from very innocent and truly loving space.
Like I could tell, like man could look at you
and be like, she ain't even trying to me.

Speaker 2 (58:48):
I really wanted to work out, I really and one
of my sayings is like, hey, can we just let's
just get back to the loven. Let's just what can
we do to get back to love? I think, and
you know what, I'm really really good out holding into space.
I think it's the way that I create safe spaces.
And I mean probably, I think my part past lovers
would say that and then be like and then I
hate that whole at the same time, but like, I'm

(59:10):
really good out holding space, like listening and allowing you
to really just throw up all your shit, and I'm like, okay, cool,
And I've learned along the way that I have to
do better at having someone throw up all the shit
and then not affering proper aftercare. Ah yeah, yeah, So
the part right where it's like, okay, so just do it.

(59:32):
You know, why didn't you just do it after you
realize that no, you should just do it. I had
to be more understanding about what that process looks like
for other people and that they just can't write and
so therefore when things are blowing up in their world,
I can't, and especially if I'm the catalyst of like
lighting some dynamite that I have to hold offer my

(59:54):
hand a little bit more than opposed to just be
sitting there like all right, well, you know, okay, fix
it right, like you might want to go talk to
your mama right like, and so yeah, and I trust,
I'm actually really trusting.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
I think that's a double lid sort that come back
that can come back.

Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
To kicking my ass at forty. You know, it's it's
it's like, okay, and I am very trusting and and
it's actually I love that part of me though. I
really love that part of like you said, looking at
someone and saying, okay, you are inherently good. You are
inherently good. And I think what has saved me from
just being with like monstrous people is that I talk

(01:00:37):
too much. I talk a lot. I wanted so those
who it takes an effort, It takes a lot of
effort to just navigate with me, like oh, she's gonna
talk and she wants to talk about my feelings and
her feelings and blah bah blah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
So well, I'm glad you don't let that de tear you,
like that you you are trust, that you like to
trust people, and like these are all like very good
traits that you have, and I'm glad that they don't
deter you, because I can't even think about myself and
how I would go about like loving on women and
they would feel like kind of weird about it. Like

(01:01:12):
I've had women asked me like why are you so nice?
Are you being so nice? A bunch of our friends
we were in Philly and one girl like went to
the store and I was like, ah, wait for you,
so well get back to the hotel. She was like,
why are you being so nice to me? Do you
trying to fuck? And I'm like, no, Nigga's never walked
her across the street before, Like what the fuck is happening?

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
Yeahs. I have a lot of that too, though, like
being in spaces where now I've been coerced into some
ship and I'm like damn and the naive ye I
kid you not and we end up doing the going
and niggasid, well, what did you think it was gonna do?
I said that We're just gonna talk talk and just
hang out because you want a good female company.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
I've had a girl cup over and be like I
thought you was trying to try someone. I was like, nah,
I never said that. I never said one time sex
with you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
I but that is being me. I'm so sad about that.
I've been so sad lately about like, oh, just was
having this conversation of like I don't want to have
to think like that. I don't like that feeling like
let me leave early for you know what I'm saying,
let me not say this, or I have to like
on GP, you know, I have to immediately say to them, hey,

(01:02:25):
I'm not interested, you know, like but I don't know,
I don't, I don't but they're saying we have to.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
Like it's becomes so it's become.

Speaker 2 (01:02:35):
Dangerous and normalized for just to kind of like, uh,
for men in particular level of entitlement to touch on
me and to grab into like just assume like, oh,
I'm this person, so you have to want me. Whatever
happened in the conversations.

Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
Yeah, And and the the sad part about that is
we've been raised to think that if we do ABC, X,
Y and Z, then women are going to react a
certain way. And and I mean in the literal sense.
We were raised to actually think that women operate that way.
And that's not the case. And it's very sad and
I'm happy that I had to like break out of
that mentality and thinking that if I do certain things

(01:03:15):
as a gentleman, then women are gonna be all over me. Sure,
somebody says something and it made me go somehow like
men thinking that they're good, good guys or something like that,
and I was like, at some point I thought me
not cheating a woman made me a good guy and
realized that was not the case. It just put me
ahead of the pack, but it did not mean that
I was a good person. Yeah. And and with you

(01:03:39):
and all the things like that we have that make
us like good people, I'm happy that you hold on
to those things and say to them because once again,
it doesn't mean that there's something wrong with you. Right,
it's literally the operation of the world and what we've
considered to be normal, and it's not.

Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
It's not. I appreciate you and the work you're doing.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
Yeah, it's a lot of work. You See.

Speaker 2 (01:04:03):
I have a really good friend who's genius, and I
love this person.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
Are they auarious, nost curious?

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
Genius is just so you know a lot of these
niggas I'm talking about are curious.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
Hey, we are geniuses, but depends what are problematic problem
But we could be we could be high level manipulators.

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
Hi to the point. And and me because I'm like,
in my own mind everything works out. I'm so protected.
I'm like, I'm just so curious about the psychology of
how it works. So I just be like, well, see
how far this is gonna go? This is crazy?

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
Yeah, a genius level. Crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
Sorry, I don't even know what I was saying. Oh,
he was saying, how, Ashley, are you aware that you
need a person who's extremely emotionally intelligent? He's like, are
you aware that that's something you need to write down
on your list? Like that is what you need. I'm like, no,
I've never but like something that that is a necessity
for me, Like that's a hard thing. And he was

(01:05:01):
explained to me that you He's like, Ashley, you are
needing a person who wakes up every day and is
constantly destruct deconstructing what it is to be a many.
So let me tell you I do that, and I
fail every day. I'm failing every day and it makes
me sad though, like because it once again it just

(01:05:22):
feels like I am looking maybe or needing I need something.
That's so I know this sounds so odd, but I know,
you know what I'm saying, that I'm needing like this
needle in the haystack, which is probably which is not
a bad thing, right, but it's however, when I'm running
into a more hay per se, it does start to

(01:05:46):
pile up the thought or maybe feed the subconscious that
maybe what I'm needing or looking for doesn't exist. No,
maybe it exists.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
And I can tell you that because I wake up
every day deconstructing manage. And the only thing I would
disagree with is that I don't think that you need
somebody that has a high emotional intelligence. I think you
need somebody that tries all the time. I would I
think that is a more accurate description of what you need.

(01:06:17):
Like certain women need a certain thing. You need a
guy that's gonna just try because he doesn't you. You
are graceful, right, yeah, you're very You are very graceful,
especially with the privilege that you grew up with, and
graceful in the sense of not like, oh, I'm gonna
let you do a bunch of shit and I'm gonna understand.
Because you're a black man living in America, there's a

(01:06:39):
lot of time to No. It's you can see someone
and say like, oh, you're giving an effort, all right, okay,
I could I could work with the effort, Like if
you give me a little bit, I can go very
far with the effort. Where women someone are like, no,
I need more than that, Like you in essence in
a good way, because all you need is a little
bit to go very far? Are you also need a

(01:07:01):
man that's gonna continuously try, because then if you continuously tries,
then it's just gonna go far every single time. And
so yeah, every we all need somebody that's gonna give
an effort right now.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
Yeah, but how do you know that? Because I know
that that's actually what I do. Like, can I just
need a little bit? But I honestly think that that's
hurting me by saying I just need a.

Speaker 1 (01:07:25):
Little bit, No you need it's hard to say because
the person somebody can't necessarily tell somebody I need a
little bit, right because the niggas gonna give a little bit,
right like, okay, But no, what you need is somebody
that's gonna be consistent in effort in every single thing
that they're going to do. And it's not like, damn,
I gotta drain myself for Ashley and everything. It's like, no,

(01:07:46):
I gotta give a little bit of effort in everything.
Some women need more, Some women need more effort than others.
You don't necessarily need the grand scheme of effort because
you've been privileged enough to understand the grand scheme already.
So I don't need you to do all these so
I understand goes into it. Some women need to see
the big picture because they never have. You've seen it,
the writer, you just need to see yeah too.

Speaker 2 (01:08:06):
And that's what and it really I think you're saying
that for me, this is about you, and I love
that for me.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
But I mean, honestly, like getting to understand and speaking
to you more is also helped me understand women more.
And having the grace with Mila, because there's sometimes she
does it and I'm just like, what was that? So
talking about grace, all the grace in the world, and
the woman I'm married, I'll be looking at her like

(01:08:39):
it's so funny.

Speaker 2 (01:08:40):
Because you say things about each other because you know,
I mean, like, but I love it so much, works
so well together.

Speaker 1 (01:08:51):
I love yeah, yeah, and and and she's different than
you in the sense of like the things that I
have to give effort towards and things that like it
is that she needs is much different than the women
that I've dated before. But it's compatible for me. The
thing she the thing she needs. I don't mind giving

(01:09:12):
that all too, giving the effort towards like it just
it just works out well.

Speaker 2 (01:09:16):
I want that. I'm gonna touch it. Agree, I'm gonna
just grib some of that.

Speaker 1 (01:09:18):
That is my reality. That is my reality.

Speaker 2 (01:09:21):
It's my reality because I am calling for a person
who is intentional and chooses me and chooses himself enough
to know, like, this is beautiful if I just give
the effort. And I want to give the effort because
it makes me better, and then it makes our relationship better.
And she's gonna meet me. She's gonna show up, and

(01:09:41):
she's gonna give everything that she's had and like and
expanding both of our horizons. And I get to learn
because it does. Every time I run into these pases,
I am taught even more how to practice more patience
and practice more grace and give myself more grace because
one thing about fuck nigga ship is that they don't
give a fuck renee fuck up. Some times I will
I I am down and out.

Speaker 1 (01:10:01):
Oh my god, the depression that overcomes me when I
heard somebody's feelings. Yeah, I'll be saying like, how do
I even go? People just be like all right, well
fuck it, then order the next one. I'd be like how.

Speaker 2 (01:10:16):
Oh yeah, and the last I can tell myself if
I feel like I've made a mistake with myself, or
I didn't do something right, or I wasn't moving with
integrity and morale, or if I'm like, let you see,
I gotta crawl on your couch. Next thing, you know,
I'm coming up all kind of narrative that don't even
make any sense. And you're like, bro, what me is
like you wasted twenty five minutes of my time?

Speaker 1 (01:10:43):
No, no, but yes, yeah, we need to stick to
our gun, stick to our true, stick to the things
that make us great, and don't let people with the
terms from that. Well, now I know that you're on
the dating scene. Is marriage also in like the the

(01:11:03):
division for you? Well, what does marriage for you? Look like?

Speaker 2 (01:11:07):
I don't know, And I think I want to spend
more time there.

Speaker 1 (01:11:11):
Mhm.

Speaker 2 (01:11:13):
I would like to marriage for whatever reason. I remember.
I remember it being like that's a goal of mine.
I want marriage, you know, like because I saw that
you're gonna get married, you're gonna have kids, you're gonna
have a big house.

Speaker 1 (01:11:28):
Just direction defense, let's do it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:30):
That's all. It works out that way right like I
saw it. And on top of that, my cousins are
all like my all my aunts are married too, in
long marriages, and you know, so I'm like, okay, this
is the thing. It just comes. And then I had
the first baby and first baby day. Then I had
a second baby and second baby daddy, and I remember

(01:11:51):
it just no longer being something like, oh, it doesn't
work always work out that way, and I'm so okay
with it not working on that way that I no
longer even put energy towards it being something else. And
when I get married, yeah, I would like that is
it now that that little girl like tight dream where like, no,

(01:12:12):
it's not. And I also don't glamorize marriage. Yeah I'm
you know, I just knew it's something that I would do,
but not like, oh, I have to have it. You know,
my parents have been married forever, and I know that
it comes with a lot of effort, It comes with
a lot of consistency, It comes with a lot of
showing up, and a lot of choices that don't always
feel good. I think it's also part of what's made

(01:12:33):
me excellent, you know, like you just get different children
when you have two people that are really holding on
and the best way and showing up and then having
the resource to be able to hold on a very
specific way. You know. It's not like my parents were
like in a shock and water was getting shop. They're
trying to figure shit out with kids, and they were
just like, you know, oh you guys are getting on earth.
So we would go, you know, like you know, my

(01:12:54):
dad was like, I'm taking a gig, and probably my
mom was like, well, we're going to Disney, you know,
so okay, we have space. They want to sleep in
the weather was room. You know, there's five six rooms.
You can go sleep somewhere else, right, So but they
you know, a lot of prayer and showing up and
I think it's just like, okay, I think that's beautiful

(01:13:14):
and I want that, especially now my dad's Asian. My
mom is really taking Like my mom is just she's
just a phenomenal.

Speaker 1 (01:13:23):
You know how I feel about you. She put the
fine and phenomena. I tell you that much.

Speaker 2 (01:13:33):
I mean, because it's all that beauty and grace and love.
You talk. My mom, she gave me the best statement
and she was like, actually, you always want to be
able to demonstrate grace under pressure. She's like, oh, she's
so graceful and she's so poised and she's so beautiful
and so caring and to the point where everybody looks
at me like I'm super caring. And my mom just

(01:13:56):
keeps showing up like I'm like, but she don't deserve it, mother,
Like why do you? She's like, it's okay. And one
of the things that we always said during prayer, my
mom and my dad was like, may others be as
blessed as we are, and so we could we give
because we are so blessed. We show up because we
are so blessed. That's always been the prayer growing up.
And so when it comes to marriage, I would like it.

(01:14:17):
I would do it, like if I had a partner
and they got to the poet like I want to
marry Ashley, Like I'm all for it, Like let's go,
let's do it. Am I in a rush? Or do
I feel like I have to have it?

Speaker 1 (01:14:27):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:14:28):
And do I think that conflicts with other parts of me? Maybe?
You know? And then just so, but I'm also in
the space where do I want partnership? I think I do.
I think I want it, But then again I start
to feel like maybe I'm a woman king, you know,
naturally you're on this world to be a martyr, and
to like show up and show that women can if
they choose not to, and that they can stuff a fulfilling,

(01:14:48):
loving life and look younger. And you know, maybe I
was at the we were at the kitchen table, you know,
because then all my big family gatherings and they were like,
you're just looking so young, you look so good. You
know what you're doing, and like, man, you look great,
and I kid you. I don't know why I said this,
but I was eating. I said, because I ain't got

(01:15:09):
no husband. I mean, my mom was like. And then
my aunt stairs in there, and my one aunt she
started cracking. She did right, and then I was like,
oh with the silence, I was like, oh, I probably
shouldn't have said that, even in a joking way, because

(01:15:30):
I was kind of joking, kind of not and I
was like, but you I look up for the plane.
I was like, you know, I got different challenges though
I got I got to save it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:40):
But again, it's good for y'all.

Speaker 2 (01:15:44):
Wait a minute, my mom's gone.

Speaker 1 (01:15:45):
I'm almost not good either, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:15:46):
I had to find once again. I was like, oh wait,
but yeah, I just I know, like I hear them, right,
I hear the things that they're navigating. But I also
don't know what it's like to have a person in
the home offer me some water, you know, or like
consistent like adoration. And obviously I'm on the internet where

(01:16:07):
people like you're so beautiful, You're so fine, You're so pretty,
so smart, you're so and I'm like, yeah, I know
that it's it would be different. I wanted to be
said from like you said, the things that do matter
because you know me, because you know it is different,
And like what I all that I do to show up.

Speaker 1 (01:16:25):
I love having this window. It'd be so much action
back there.

Speaker 2 (01:16:29):
But all that I do to actually show up, everything
that it takes to be me, to pour into my girls,
to be so mindful of the people that I talk
to and and who's on who are who I engage with?
And why eat the way that I eat? And why
work out the way I work, and why feel the
way I feel and why I think that way I think?
So I can ensure that I can still love and
be loved on like I It's so important to me

(01:16:50):
because I had a lot of it growing up. I
shouldn't you should shut it and I shouldn't I need
to be okay, hey with that, Like, I know that
there needs to be an energetical and mental shift for
me to be like no, thank you because you're not
or you don't want to give me that, like you
don't want to try and have effort with me and
I and I'm that's okay, and that's okay, and like

(01:17:13):
because it doesn't change my sense of self. It doesn't
change the way I see myself. I have a really
positive self image. And I'm telling that I don't kill
like it's okay, We're just not going hell, you don't
want to be good to me, you know, like and
then and then just being okay with trying again and oh,
which brings me to my other point that I had
to accept. And this goes into like marriage and partnership

(01:17:34):
and whether I wanted or not wanting and what I'm
gonna do and if I'm gonna write the list and
be intentional about it and all the same time, I
was just struggling this morning because I'm singing this song
about I'm real, you know, like the guy's asking like
is it are you even real? You're so beautiful and
all these like yeah, I'm real, I'm really exist right
because I have to pour into myself that way. Sometimes
it just feels good. It gives me to feels good,

(01:17:54):
and I'm all about getting feel good. So at the
same time, I was like, how do I create space
for this and be clear on that and also clear
about like, well, you don't have it, so you need
to focus on geting these coins right, Like how can
I do that? And then so when people ask me
about marriage and partnership, I don't know, Like I want
aspects of partnership, but I don't necessarily know how to

(01:18:18):
exist in this dating pool field while I like and
feel stable emotional, psychologic enough to still get to the bag,
and then just frustrate about like I don't want to
keep getting to the bag because I want to be
taken care of. And it is it is a it
is an energy like no one has ever told me

(01:18:39):
I come off as masculine? What I am that that
you guys talk about on the podcast of getting up
and making it happen? I get up and I make
it happen. And that does diminish space and room for partnership,
and like, what do you want? Right? What do you want?

Speaker 1 (01:18:56):
I have?

Speaker 2 (01:18:57):
I'm trying to get this and if you're not gonna
come here, and when I try to do it, it
doesn't make me feel Now, I don't want to do
this on the business side because my feelings is hurt,
you know, and I be crying. You know, I ain't
got no problem crying. I wanted. I sat down with
a very matter of fact David Thomas, super producer. Right,

(01:19:19):
he was at my parents' house and this is many
years ago. I think I only had one kid at
the time, and he goes, actually he was looking at me.
He was working with my father and I think, tell
you rally something. He looks at me and he said,
you know, he said, you hell was smart. You held
a pretty A nigga like me would already gave you
like cars and houses. Like, what's up? I said, I

(01:19:39):
like to talk and I need you to care about
my feelings. He said, at least you know what the
problem is.

Speaker 1 (01:19:49):
At least you know what the problem is. It's you.
But it's not like that's healthy.

Speaker 2 (01:19:58):
I'm like, He's like, I'm like, no, this is healthy.
This is healthy. You know. So I don't know. I
at the end of it, it's just uncertain. I would
like marriage, it's but how for whatever reason, all the reasons,
all the nuances are just where I am emotionally, mentally, financially.
It's just not something that I've put on my vision

(01:20:19):
board like oh marriage, Oh marriage, And I don't know why,
just quite yet. I think I also don't really care.
It's just not something that I have a lot of
focus in and but I'm open to it. I'm not
anti marriage at all.

Speaker 1 (01:20:31):
I could see that. And I think that earlier you
said that you were always able to like do it
on your own, and so when you're kind of like
hyper independent, like partnership or partnership ideals aren't prioritized, which
is a good thing.

Speaker 2 (01:20:49):
No, no, this is that's why they're talking about me.
Even though I can call in a leven, I'm really gentle.
It is messing up. I'm not manifesting that right. And
if I know that I'm a master manifestor, then why
am I not manifesting marriage because of what you're saying.
And then I said, I'm like, well, then you guys
want to blame the women, but it's really the daddy's

(01:21:10):
that taught me this way. My daddy taught me to
be this way. My daddy was not sitting here trying
to tell me how to be the best wife. He
was like, make sure so no nigga you know, and
no man know this. And because nobody and my daddy
used to always sit there and tell me, because nobody's
gonna love you like I love you, No one's gonna
love you as much as I love you. My daddy
would tell me that all the time, which is probably problematic.

Speaker 1 (01:21:30):
Well it's it's also kind of productive because if you're
saying that, you know, do things to make sure you
avoid man's love, but also the only person that's ever
going to love you as much as me is a
man's love. Is like kind of productive to like what
he's saying, and also kind of hypocritical.

Speaker 2 (01:21:49):
Hence with marriage, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:21:50):
Maybe yeah, you just cause confusion in the little girl's body.
It's like shut up, to shut up and let people.

Speaker 2 (01:21:57):
Yeah I don't think it's okay, then no ways in
like I don't want to believe that I want to
believe And then of course.

Speaker 1 (01:22:05):
You know I mean, and even in your own way,
it's sad to say you kind of assimilate to the
cutoff culture because you know, you don't necessarily do anything
that that uh explores joining more so that's pretty good. Yeah,

(01:22:26):
you're more so emulated culture that you're actually trying to avoid.

Speaker 2 (01:22:30):
I feel attacked because you're absolutely right, and like when
it comes to even this idea of like I'm totally
okay with separate households, Like if somebody were asking, I'm like, yeah,
that's fine, fine, I mean right, like I'm totally But
I think only because I don't know, maybe I was
always that way. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:22:48):
I mean, you, you you have little things that show
up in your life that make it okay for you
to think like that. Like, not every woman, even he
is even thinking like, oh and he's to sleep in
separate beds. Everyone is like monoga your mind and no
other body can have you univen yourself. You can't even
have yourself. That's how most women think. Yeah, but you
weren't raising that environment, so you you necessarily have theories

(01:23:14):
that pop up for you that are different than most
women would have.

Speaker 2 (01:23:19):
I think that. I think it's a really great aspect
and characteristic of mine. I also think that it doesn't
fit for a lot of people. Right, remember talking about
this me being very sovereign. It just doesn't work for
a lot. So one of the things is my mother
said she got to a point of her marriage. I
think it was very early, so the first year was

(01:23:39):
really hard for her. And she says, and I hear
that a lot with a lot of married people, the
first year is very hard, she said. But one day
she just said, you know, through pair and God told her.
She's like, you know, whatever this man does, it's just
not going to bother you anymore. Right, This was the
story she was telling me. I think it was like
a teen and she's like, it's not going to bother
you anymore. And so whatever, you know, whatever you got

(01:23:59):
to do, just go do it, Deborah. You know, Ben
doesn't have to go to the movies with you. He doesn't
have to do this. I don't have to be entertained.
I do not need to be entertained my in my partnerships,
and so, uh, I'm really good, like you said, feel
I can just go. I'm like, all right, I'm going
to movies. Yeah, I'm gonna go work, I'm gonna I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:24:16):
Gonna touch more, touch more now yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:24:18):
Yeah, I just however it I think that's that more
of that hyperindependence of just like I can Okay, well
didn't come if you you know, like I'm going, you know,
but I also think it's a good thing.

Speaker 1 (01:24:31):
I think it's such a good thing. But in natural
human culture, today's if you feel otracized, But natural human culture.
It's the matter of like feeling like somebody wants me
to be there, somebody wants me to go around. And
that's the thing that I think a lot of men
necessarily navigate towards, at least me specifically. It's not necessarily

(01:24:53):
the space that you're giving me. The space and saying, hey,
talking to your emotions that makes us want to feel
like connected. It's I want you to talk. I want
to hear what you have to say, not here's your space,
speak on your emotions. This is what I want from you.
I want this thing from you, mister man. I want
you to speak because I care about what you're saying.

(01:25:16):
I want to create something for you so that you
can do these things. Because I want these things for you.
I want you to come to movies with me. It's
like that reaching out that instead of like men usually
get the nigga, figure it out, stand on your own
two feet and figure it out. Instead of like a
no come over here. I'm gonna help you figure it out.
I want to help you. So it's like when you're like, okay,
well you know if you want to come. If you don't,

(01:25:37):
it's cool. I'll just do it on my own. Yeah,
it doesn't necessarily make us like push us. It's either
we're gonna chase for it because is running away from us,
or somebody's gonna hold their hand out and say.

Speaker 2 (01:25:50):
Come over here, come here.

Speaker 1 (01:25:52):
I want Yeah, And it's it's essentially the same thing
that women want to. Women want somebody to a man
that's reach out. But like I choose you. Yeah, I'm
my mom, Mom. How do you at this point define.

Speaker 2 (01:26:07):
Love the highest version and of myself and my lover?

Speaker 1 (01:26:14):
See there you go with that privileged mentality again, the
highest version. You can't can't meet me in the.

Speaker 2 (01:26:20):
Because in the process and the growth today and then
your highest version next week. But just that that doing,
that doing, Like I come from the doing and I
want I would I really really really look forward to
feeling safe in the doing, Like I really want to

(01:26:43):
feel safe in the doing, and I want to offer
that same safety is committed to your highest version of
yourself and myself and this co created dynamic.

Speaker 1 (01:26:58):
I truly love that you have a high privileged standard.
And I know we used I've never used privilege so
much and then like a two hour span in my life,
but because you know, Nigga's not used to being privilege.
But I do like that we are staying in that realm.
And I was gonna say this earlier when we were
talking about like men trying and like me being the

(01:27:20):
guy that women see and be like, oh my gosh,
Orlando does it. So I know it's like possible. Meal
is getting these things. So it's possible, but we we
need to stand in stand in this right, and stand
true in this and hold hold to it because this
is what is supposed to be the normal. I'm not

(01:27:42):
supposed to be like what's what's the fucking word I'm
looking for example of example. I'm not supposed to be
the example. I'm supposed to be the standard me specifically
and how I act and how I go about things
with women. And so yeah, it made maybe a privilege
to see like how I how I move and how
I act, but I think that I'm more so supposed

(01:28:04):
to be the standard. I was going somewhere with this problem.

Speaker 2 (01:28:06):
I know, I know I'm going place because I'm swayings.
I don't know, I'm soothing something.

Speaker 1 (01:28:11):
I don't know what it is. But I was going
to say earlier that, you know, us being the example
and us being like so privileged and holding things to
a higher standard. Yeah, like I hold myself to a
higher standard, I hold the men around me to a
higher standard. Then, and also I hold our mentality to
our higher standing. Then yeah we should because we're not

(01:28:32):
supposed to be the example, we're supposed to be the norm.
And so yeah, keep too. I think you should keep
to how you're going about things and in this like
super privileged state of holding everybody and everything and love
even to a higher standard, because that's how we grow.

Speaker 2 (01:28:51):
Thank you for saying that to me, and the example
of saying when I do. I've said too many people
that I meeting you and seeing you and Jama like
it does it. It keeps that fire burning that that
I too can have that even me as a single

(01:29:12):
mom in two kids, that that someone really wants to
be a part of me and these girls lives and
they want to show up in that way and that
is available to me. So thank you, Thank you for
just being as my stupidest.

Speaker 1 (01:29:28):
Questions stupid, so talking about all these beautiful young girls
that you're raising, and you're doing an amazing job with that,
so nobody can really question that. I just love How
do you treat someone or something that you love these days?
Or mostly someone? I guess.

Speaker 2 (01:29:45):
Lately it's just been with a lot of grace.

Speaker 1 (01:29:47):
Okay, you really you're really dive doving into the grace
part of it.

Speaker 2 (01:29:51):
Yeah, I'm just really lately it's been a lot of
grace because I've been asking for a lot of grace
for myself with just my circumstances, and and it's just
showing up in the way that I'm loving others with
a lot of grace and a lot of acceptance of
just like you're like, not a lot of judgment. I
think lately that's been really consistent. Yeah, for me navigating loveships,

(01:30:16):
it's like lack of I'm not really a person who
has a lot of shame anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:30:21):
Yeah, yeah, but you're really not coming down on yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:30:24):
Yeah, and so which that's good.

Speaker 1 (01:30:26):
I think that a lot of black people are in
that kind of mode and mentality right now where we
kind of got to like ease up on each other
and like how hard and how hard we're coming down
on each other because I think we're with awareness, we're
starting to realize, like we knew the world was a
fucked up place, but it's really thinking how the world

(01:30:47):
is a really fucked up place to black people, and
how we're also reacting to that fucked upness. And it's like,
I I wouldn't do that, but I understand how you
got there because you know, some of the shit is
like fucked up in this world. So like we're just
really sitting there and just having a lot more grace
than we usually would and usually come down hard on
each other, like we got to be better because we're black. Yeah,

(01:31:07):
it's like now we're black, so I understand where you
came from.

Speaker 2 (01:31:10):
What that's been looking like for me is giving up
the idea to be right. They need to be right.
I just don't need to be right, Like I don't
have to address that, like it's oh okay, that's.

Speaker 1 (01:31:22):
Interesting, especially when right or wrong is all perspective it is.

Speaker 2 (01:31:26):
It really is. I tell people, like they're at this
stage of our lives and my life very little is
about right or wrong. It just is it just is
it's the Oh that's interesting, that's what that looked like
for you, Okay, you know, and why it shaped you
the way that it shaped you, and why you view
it the way and why you did what you did.
Got it understood, And then just really sitting with myself, Okay,

(01:31:47):
does that work for me? Do I like it? Is
it something that I can have a conversation about? And
that's really like lately my love has been looking a
lot like that, Like just grace, grace of grace and
and compassion.

Speaker 1 (01:32:03):
Yeah, we need more grace in the world and a
lot more compassion. I was explaining to Mila difference between
empathy and compassion, and she was because she always says, like,
I have so much empathy for people, and I was like,
you have to understand. Empathy just means that you know
how other people feel. Like compassion is really taking on
somebody's feelings and then doing something about it. And we

(01:32:25):
really don't have a lot of compassion for each other.
And I'm talking about black people, so only kind of
people I have talked about, the only people, the only
people I know about, but all privileged matters. I can't
catch a break with you, but we we really need
to hone in more and on the compassion, and the

(01:32:47):
grace is really going to help us hone in more
on the compassion part of ourselves and with other people,
especially with ourselves.

Speaker 2 (01:32:56):
My kids teach me that really shout us.

Speaker 1 (01:33:00):
My girls. You know I love them. Two kids? All right?
Final question? Second to final question, right, because.

Speaker 2 (01:33:08):
Because make me amazing. I can't wait with them sometimes
going I'm like, yeah, some good stuff in here, make
me feel great. I want to know.

Speaker 1 (01:33:16):
Wow, I'm glad you're enjoying this.

Speaker 2 (01:33:18):
I can't listen. I'm excited. I was like, want to
hear why a right? And then I just know that
the lights that I have my yellow sweater with, I
was just like, man, I'm gonna get me a husband
off of there. That's why I really like, make me great,
get the best and make it great.

Speaker 1 (01:33:36):
How do you think that women can handle men better
these days?

Speaker 2 (01:33:41):
I hate that I don't like have an immediate answer
for you, because my best friend was like, you should
write a book on the way that you can deal
with these things because you do it so good. And
now I'm like, what would I like? How do I
want to do that?

Speaker 1 (01:33:52):
I think that would be a good part of the book,
like how can women handle love better? When I come
to the partner.

Speaker 2 (01:34:01):
When you ask me that a lot of things come
up for me that I want to be mindful of. Right,
and a lot of that is once again my starting point. Right,
And I'm like, oh, you just do ABCOG And I
think the first start is I'm asking myself what is

(01:34:28):
something when my heart is my most challenging relationships? What
is something that I did to love better and hold
that better? Breathe? Okay, for women, we need to learn
how to take I think it would do us a
great service if we just take a moment to breathe

(01:34:55):
first breathe and say is it true? Is it true?
What is coming? What this person is saying, and what
I'm feeling. So it's first like asking ourselves. Is it

(01:35:16):
getting the habit of questioning our thoughts that produce certain feelings?

Speaker 1 (01:35:21):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:35:23):
Is it true? From there, make a choice. Do I
want to honor the connection or do I just want
to be right? Yeah? Do I want to Is it

(01:35:48):
more important to me the relationship of being in harmony
and good standing that doesn't jeopardize or take away who
we are? The core of what I am. This is
why we have to ask is it true? First? Is
it true what I'm thinking I'm feeling, and then be
okay with getting rid of the fluff. We do a

(01:36:10):
lot of fluff.

Speaker 1 (01:36:11):
So I'm happy that you said that because I've come
to realize that this is a standard with all women,
like taking in what is what they're feeling at the moment,
and then also taking in was actually true in the moment,

(01:36:31):
and then trying to like you know, clean up or
cipher through like what's real and what's not? So what
is this this that that happens with women where they
may feel an emotion would come up and it alters
the reality or or creates a reality for women too,

(01:36:53):
then work on what is that? You don't know?

Speaker 2 (01:36:57):
I'm not very good.

Speaker 1 (01:37:00):
I didn't know, but you know it's real. But what one.

Speaker 2 (01:37:04):
Should just be like not question? I love to question.
I love as much as I was the person in
front of class all the time, Like I don't think
I'm getting that.

Speaker 1 (01:37:11):
Right, because that's what that's what I want to understand,
that there is something that happens where an emotion, a
situation happens, an emotion would overcome a woman right, and
then that emotion then writes the script of what's going
to happen next.

Speaker 2 (01:37:31):
Let me tell you. I'm gonna tell you what that is.
It's a lack of information. Okay, it's a lack of information.
We will feel it, and part of that is knowing
that what we're feeling is so very real, right like
you guys are told not to boys, men told not
to feel. We're like, our feelings are indicators, right, Like,
something is not good right now now when it runs

(01:37:54):
off with the stories, it's because we're now just gunning.
We're feeling in the blank because something is I'm feeling
something very real, So I need to figure out why
I'm feeling this very real and I have to validate
that feeling because it's very real. But this is why
I say we have to pause and ask ourselves is
it is it true? First? Because what we're telling ourselves

(01:38:16):
needs to be questioned first. And this is why then
you get to say, okay, it's it important that I
be right or to maintain a connection. And then this
is where you have the conversations of asking questions like
and a lot of times I've observed that black people,
particular asking questions is like, oh, oh, like that is
a real trigger point, like I never understood that. I'm like, no, no,

(01:38:38):
we asked questions here. It's okay to ask a question,
it's okay to be questioned, right, but question feels like interrogation,
and question feels like only I'll never forget I howd
somebody tell me when you're asking me questions? The only
time I was asked questions when I know I did
something wrong and I was in trouble, Oh my god, damn,
you know, like like no, I just didn't really want
to understand. I so be in the habit of that.

(01:38:59):
But when that part is not there, then we're feeling
in the blanks. And a lot of times women are
left to fill in blanks because the kind of part
is not communicating the details. So that feeling of like, oh,
this happened and I know it's real, and I've been
left to fill in those spaces so many times, so

(01:39:23):
I can just go with it. It's most likely, you know,
because we're really good at putting like, you know, putting
that together, making that make sense based upon this situation,
that situation, what happened on this sage two years ago,
back there, I'm like, all right, most likely this is
a culprit because having to sit down and do this
was most likely conditioned not to happen in the in

(01:39:43):
the relationship. Hey, this has come up for me. I
just want to ask you a couple of questions about it,
you know, before I make a decision of what is
going on. And that really is hard oftentimes to get
a man to sit and say, yeah, I thought this,
I did that, this and this, No because of this
ab CFG because and I can ask you a couple
of questions because asking those questions is already now that's

(01:40:05):
seen as issue. So when we are not conditioned and
in the practice of that, then what we're feeling is
very real, and we know it is very real, and
we're gonna fill in that blank and most likely as
long as we're at least over fifty percent right, it's right.
And for the most part, round up to write because

(01:40:26):
unless if I typically when I hear the stories, I'm like, oh,
this is really really great. I was just helping my
best friend with her marriage, and she was finding herself
really frustrated because they had a rough morning. They had
a rough morning, and she signed up a text message

(01:40:50):
and he responded back shortly, you know, like just responded,
just answered the questions. And then she teld me that
wouldn't that wasn't good enough, so that she sent off
another message and he responded that pretty good too. She
was like, you know, I just am needing a little
bit more than that this is. So he gave her
some more and then she got in the phone with

(01:41:11):
me complaining, and I remember, and I think because the
feeling was very real. So her story was he's not care,
he doesn't care enough, he doesn't And I'm like, friend,
I'm gonna tell you this because I understand that your

(01:41:32):
marriage is important to you, and therefore honoring your marriage
and keeping that together is important to me too. You
need to go eat, you need to take it stop fastly,
because what you told me from the outside, like, let
me tell you what's happening right now, there's some sabotage
going on because you're feeling a certain kind of way,
and because you're feeling a certain kind of way now,
the story is nobody gives a fuck, and you're not

(01:41:53):
seeing this from a very healthy lens. So what I
heard was you said something to your husband and he
responded exactly he answered and did it. And then you
were like, well, I need more. And then because he
loves and cares about you, he gave you more. And
then when that was enough, you said, well, listen this,
and then he gave it to you too. So here's
a person who is saying, I may not even let's

(01:42:14):
just put let's let'sten veer to the more optimistic side, right,
I may not have all of the tools to directly
do this, but if you tell me I want to
do it, and I'm going to do it, I want
to do it. And so that is a very there's
a very perfect example of something happened this morning. So
she didn't took her by herself to just start blowing
up this man's phone at work, you know about things

(01:42:35):
that she I guess she needed. And I was like, now,
but one of the things that she did, and she
said before I sent off that third one, she's like,
let me call my best friend. She literally said, let
me call my best friend because I might be tripping.
When that's that pause, that's that pause, that that that
that deep breath and of being like am I tripping

(01:42:56):
and then being in the habit. Right, Oh, here's another
way to make sure you're loving good is calling your
calling on White's council. Okay, let me let me run
this fire through Wis's council to ensure that I am
maintaining harmony in my look, that I'm honoring the love,
that I'm honoring the connection, that I'm not running off
with the story, that I'm not feeling in the blanks,

(01:43:16):
and that I'm seeing what is true and what is not.
So I think that is a good start from there.
You know, it can there's more things, but relaxed. Yeah,
I was gonna say listen, but look, can women listen?
I was?

Speaker 1 (01:43:32):
I was.

Speaker 2 (01:43:34):
That was why I took a moment. I was like,
how can I say this where it's not just set
because listen.

Speaker 1 (01:43:39):
Is just like they to this whole thing, like this
privileged bai. I ain't listen. I need to listen.

Speaker 2 (01:43:49):
You don't even know. They're not giving enough. I hear
you this, They are not Okay, however, you need to
take a breath. Yeah, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter
because this is not something that is just applied. And
that's also the problems that we think that this is

(01:44:11):
only for love ship. This is for every relationship. This
is for every relationship, this is for your job, this
is for your children. Everybody deserves and you deserve. You
deserve to not sit in an energy that doesn't feel
good for you, to sit down and be in the
habit of questioning your thoughts so that you can move
forward with clarity and make sure and ensure that you

(01:44:31):
are giving yourself grace, that you are not running off
with the narrative that isn't true, because then you have
to scrap that. You have to scrap all these feelings,
and you want to do it before you create harm,
because one thing that we do not want is to
jeopardize our love ship and our trust and our safety nets.

Speaker 1 (01:44:50):
So that was good. That was really good. I want
to thank you for this. Two hours of your time.

Speaker 2 (01:44:56):
That's it, It's right, this isntes. I can go longer.

Speaker 1 (01:45:05):
I had to look over the time and I was like,
oh wow, forty minutes went by, just like that. We
this was a great conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:45:12):
Really, do you really feel like that? Are you just
saying that to me just because did you tell Ryan
and to hear this same thing? No?

Speaker 1 (01:45:19):
I did tell them the same thing, but no, this
specifically is a great conversation because this format of like
conversation of like a man talking to men talking to men,
but also men talking to women about where where love
is coming from with women is honestly perfect. And this truly,
in my opinion, I feel we really need this because

(01:45:40):
we need to understand a little bit more about where
love is coming from with both parties, and we really
do need to sit and talk to each other. So yeah,
this is this is a perfect episode. But this episode
is a little bit more perfect than the other ones
because it's obviously been a lot of yours.

Speaker 2 (01:45:57):
I really do like this. Also, people know that there's more,
but they don't know what it looks like in practice.
And I love that there. I love giving the opportunity. Ooh,
and this is gonna be bite me and the motherfucker asks,
this is why my relationships with the way that they do. Now,
I was saying just now that I love being able
to expose and be in practice of a really healthy love.

(01:46:21):
And I love being I love demonstrating that love. I love.
I love. I feel more most purposeful when I get
to be and what I grew up in, you know.
And so everyone's like, oh, people can tell you oh,
you should do this, but what does it actually look like?
And that's part of also how its rights way became
really popular, is that I was showing what that looks like.
I didn't tell you breast for your baby. No, I'm
gonna show you what that looks like. I didn't say,

(01:46:42):
honor your voices and ensure that what gentle and mindful
parenting looks like. No, I'm gonna show that to you.
I didn't just tell you and give you a script
and a key outline. I'm gonna show you what that
looks like, the ins and outs, the goods and the bads,
when it didn't feel so good, when it was high,
what people say, all the different perspectives, even in the
midst of and when it comes to loveship too, that's
something that I love offering. That's my offering to my

(01:47:06):
partnerships and my friendships and my relationships and the people
that I work with, is that No, this is this
is what active listening looks like. This is what demonstrating.

Speaker 1 (01:47:14):
Career being a good example, I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:47:15):
Doing my best. I'm doing my best, even if it's
not at the best I can perform. At times, I
really make a conscious effort, which is what I want back,
that conscious effort.

Speaker 1 (01:47:27):
Exactly exactly and just like your parents and your mom
taught you, is that when you have more give and
you have so much privilege, that you get a very
last thing to ask you before we get out of here, right,
this is one of my favorite things is for you

(01:47:48):
to dedicate some love to someone. Take this time to
you know, speak, speak to somebody and dedicate some love
to them. Man, just you know, say whatever you like.

Speaker 2 (01:47:57):
The first person I came up with my daughter, Shannon,
though I would like it for it to be a nigga,
but it's Shannon, this first person. I'm the honor of that.
I think lately I I'm being taught to No. No,

(01:48:18):
I don't want to say it that way. I just
want to say, Shannon, thank you for being patient with
your mommy as she learns to be patient and understanding
and extremely accepting of who you are and being mindful

(01:48:41):
to ensure that I'm allowing you to be you and
not who I think you should be. And because of
the gift of you being so fortified in who you are,
it has helped mom tap into another level of what

(01:49:05):
love looks like when we are in loving what is
and not something that we want something to be, but
just seeing the beauty of what it is today and
who you are and how someone is today and how
they do things and finding the joy and the genius
of how someone does something that may be different and

(01:49:26):
how they and even how they go about it. And
I give thanks because it also helps me do better
my romance too. So thank you, Shannon beautiful.

Speaker 1 (01:49:39):
Shout out to him. Girls, I'm gonna come and teach
them how to ride a bike, yes, both of them.
I love you.

Speaker 2 (01:49:45):
I love you.

Speaker 1 (01:49:46):
Thank you so much for falling out today. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:49:49):
I can't wait for you to make me sound great.
I think I want to reiterate that this blabbering privileged
girl here because it's so weird that it's only been
a thing now for me, like only like where people
are being like hey, I just need you to know
like your life is really But since you're trying to cry, abrow, bitch.

Speaker 1 (01:50:12):
Listen, I'm happy. I want my kids to go. Oh
my god, ship was so hard. My dad was there
all the time, like not a problem, sure, fine, fuck it.
I'd rather that than what they're going through. So thank
you for being the example. Thank you for being the audacity,
and thank you for being the privilege that you are
I get.

Speaker 2 (01:50:29):
Thank shout out to my parents.

Speaker 1 (01:50:30):
Yeah, shout to your mom.

Speaker 2 (01:50:32):
Shout out to my mom and dad.

Speaker 1 (01:50:34):
Shout out to her mama.

Speaker 2 (01:50:35):
My mom's pretty dope.

Speaker 1 (01:50:36):
Love her. Where can the people find you?

Speaker 2 (01:50:40):
You can find me everywhere at Miss Artsway. That's ms
w R I g h T s w A Y, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter.

Speaker 1 (01:50:50):
And you can find us everywhere and listen to us
everywhere and watch us love like this. We have a
Patreon love like this. We have a Instagram which is Houcy.
Mom and dad have Instagram which is wh on the
Score Orlando Roy and Mila is Mila on the score map.
I love y'all. This is love like this, before, during,
and after falling in love peace Alah like this

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