36: Pleasure Healer Ft. Milah Mapp & Cory L Scott

Your favorite Lovers are taking a break from a very busy summer. But please enjoy this re-release from our special bonus pod Lips To Lifestyle.

A groundbreaking conversation is making waves after openly addressing taboo topics within the Black community. Orlando Roye & Brooklyn Lu host Mila Mapp & Cory L. Scott for an intimate discussion on their journeys towards healing from historical trauma.

The speakers pulled back the curtain on the insidious impacts of colonialism and religion, unpacking how they have distorted perceptions of identity, the body and relationships for generations. In a surprising turn, they advocated for the power of pleasure and intimacy to overcome shame, finally giving voice to experiences long silenced.

@hoochiemom&dad
@milah_mapp
@wh_orlandoroye
@sucianyc
@corylscott

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Like this. This is one.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
It's a very low vibrational.

Speaker 3 (00:08):
Yes, the maturity level is low.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Rational conversations. But welcome to this high vibrational podcast. This
this space, high vibrational space. Welcome to LISTA Lifestyle. I
am Orlando roy a K Orlando a K, A big
dig bad bitch. Sitting right across from me is another
big dig bad bitch. Don't know the dick size, but
I know the dick energy.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Brooklyn AK well known. I can't even.

Speaker 4 (00:39):
There's a lot of pressure man AKA well known.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
Tone. Don't get a twisted.

Speaker 5 (00:52):
Today.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Today, Today, we have some amazing people personally. They're really
good friends of mine. Both of them are actually friends
of mine. We have Corey Scott and Mila mapp are
healers of the podcast. Welcome and please introduce yourself. Hi.

Speaker 3 (01:10):
I am Miila.

Speaker 6 (01:11):
I'm a sexologist and TANTA practitioner and one half of
the podcast Good Mom's Bad Choices.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Cool.

Speaker 5 (01:18):
I am Corey L. Scott. Don't ever introduce me without
giving me my l Corey L. Scott. I am a
former pastor, author, educator, community activists, and social engineer.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
Yeah that's dope.

Speaker 4 (01:36):
I think I think we just had a little conversation
outside which really struck a chord in a really good way,
just some of the some of the things he was
dropping some knowledge. I was like, can I pick this up?
This is heavy, heavy, I like to start. I mean,
what we're doing with our events or collaborative events or

(01:58):
individual events really sensus around healing. And I think I
know a big part of the healing, huge part of
the healing, probably the base of the healing, has to
do with spirituality and and the negative impact colonialism and
white supremacy has had on us as a people. And

(02:19):
I think that's right down your lame brother.

Speaker 5 (02:21):
Yeah, like eighteen wheeler right now. I think that there's
a We probably talked about this when I was on Horrible.
I'm sure we talked about it on Harder Soft. There's
a book by Kelly Brown Douglas. She is my hey,

(02:41):
doctor Douglas, She's my intellectual crusher, my heir. She wrote
a book called Sexuality in the Black Church, A Woman Perspective,
and the title might very well cute people off because
the Black Church. But Kelly Brown Douglas goes to work

(03:02):
on laying the foundation for how black and brown folk
have come to understand their sense of self and sexuality
historically in a way that is so illuminating that there
is not a course that I've taught on the university level,

(03:25):
corporate level, or whatever that is not grounded in the
work that she does. And I encourage people, if you
are black and you experience human sexuality, it's a book.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
That you should read.

Speaker 5 (03:40):
And I say that because she does a lot of
work and helping us understand how most, if not all,
of the ideas that we have in our bodies cannot
be separated from this idea of Christianity and white supremacy,
and how those things affect every layer underneath about even

(04:06):
even if you are not Christian, if you are not religious,
if you are not spiritual, you live in a world
that is shaped by white supremacy and Christianity. And so
a lot of the trauma that people experience and don't
even recognize as trauma in their lives, in their sexuality,

(04:27):
in their body come from the Bible, from Christianity, from
white supremacy. So she gives you a good way to
walk through that and understand that, so you can begin
to peel off those layers and live freely even with
some of those trappings being things that we cannot escape.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
Everything.

Speaker 4 (04:51):
Yeah, it's it's, it's it's it's insane how it just
seeps into daily life, into daily interactions, into into your relationships,
into just everything, and and.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
It's it's this amorphous thing. Just there.

Speaker 5 (05:06):
I mean, we sneeze and somebody says, bless you. There
you go, right, It's everywhere, it's in everything.

Speaker 6 (05:13):
It's interesting that you said that. I'm happy that we
started there because for me, I grew up in I'm Black.

Speaker 3 (05:19):
I grew up in La I'm black. You'd be surprised.

Speaker 6 (05:25):
Let's just get real irritated when me and Erica say
nigget just on audio, not realizing we're black and baby
daddy and shit, I'm like.

Speaker 5 (05:33):
But.

Speaker 6 (05:36):
I didn't grow up religious. My dad told me very young,
like Jesus is some white man that a white man
made up to control everything, and we all people, everyone
believed it. And even like I got into church in
like eighth grade, my parents went out of town and
I called them, like I want to get baptized, and like,
I don't think that's a good idea. So I didn't
come up in like a black church space. But I
realized and I went to college. I went to a

(05:58):
Catholic school growing up, not that you were religious or anything.
I just thought it was this private school in the area.
And I always because my dad, I always knew it
was kind of a crock of shit, and just being
black in general, it being used as an excuse for,
like for slavery, was just weird to me that so
many black people gravitated to Christianity. But when I moved

(06:19):
to college, I went to a Buddhist meeting with my
homegirl and we chanted Nomio ho renge Ko in a
room towards like you know, they have the Gohansen. And
I was really surprised of the feelings that came up
for me that it's felt bad from someone who really
did not come from a religious background.

Speaker 3 (06:39):
I was like, why do I feel bad?

Speaker 6 (06:41):
But I went to Catholic schools and I heard it
like worshiping anything outside of God is this, it's pig
it's this, it's this. And I was like, damn, bitch,
like you're not even religious and you're feeling guilt.

Speaker 3 (06:50):
And then to take it a step.

Speaker 6 (06:51):
Further, my grandma asked me one time if I believed
in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, which is
in text question that they ask you every church session,
and then everyone looks at you because you feel like
you have to raise your fucking hand.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
You're like, yeah, yeah, pressure, so.

Speaker 6 (07:10):
I you know, and even Bike I lied that day
and said, yeah, yes he is.

Speaker 5 (07:17):
It's coercive and lacks the elements of of consent, and
there's guilty showing way more about than ninety percent of Christianity, right,
like the idea that you have to be guilted into it.

(07:38):
A couple of months ago, Carlton Pearson died and I
don't know if people know who Carlton Pearson this during
the nineties, Carlton there was not a preacher who was
more popular around the world than Carlton Pearson other than
like old ass white man. But Carlton Pearson had this
huge church revival that he started in Oklahoma, and so

(08:03):
all the big name preachers in Black America and even
white Protestant or white Pentecostal preachers got there shine at
Carlton Pearson conference. But along his journey he got to
a point where he came to believe that one Hell
does not exist, and he adopted this radical He thoughts

(08:29):
about love, God's love crossing religious lines, and then this
radical inclusion about queer folk and all of Christianity kind
of just threw him away or whatever. Mind you, he's straight,
he's straight, but he embraced gay folk, embraced you know,

(08:55):
Unitarian Unitarianism and other religions, and the Black Church went
hard at making sure we don't fuck with you, right,
just went really hard and abandoned him. Folks like TD
Jake's wanted to buy them, Miles Monroe and the list

(09:17):
can go on and on and on about all of
these people who are making millions off ministry today but
got their start or their huge exposure at Azusa.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
Right.

Speaker 5 (09:29):
He died and they treated his funeral so terribly, and
it was a revelatory moment for me about how much
pain folks experience at the hands of religious folks and
religious structures, because what his family experience is usually just

(09:51):
reserved for queer folk and black queer folk, especially that
when you die, every fucking thing that you ever live
for or stood for, believed is disregarded and people do
whatever they want. So he said, specifically, I don't want
all of these people who abandon me and didn't fuck

(10:13):
with me to be speaking at my funeral. I don't
want a bunch of eulogies or whatever, but I just want,
you know, a few people, and he named Yvette Funder,
who's really famous as well storied in gospel music industry.
I want her to give whatever words or eulogy, and
they banned her from speaking at his funeral.

Speaker 3 (10:35):
Even though it was his request.

Speaker 5 (10:36):
At his explicit requests on video in his last months
of life, he did a video and put him up
Facebook Live and name the people, her being one of
the three names. They said specifically, she can't speak, nobody
can say the words inclusion at this funeral, Nobody with

(10:58):
a progressive theologology can speak, or whatever. And she said
at the memorial service they held for him that it's
crazy that so many people's introductions to God is that
you learn to be afraid before you ever learn of
this idea.

Speaker 3 (11:17):
Of God being loved, God's sharing it.

Speaker 5 (11:19):
I'm scared. I'm scared to go to hell even have
any sense of God loving me, or God caring for me,
or any of the things. And people don't understand how
that warps your sense of self and humanity and how
you engage with other people. Like everything about your sex

(11:42):
life is wrapped up and tied up in purity culture
and sex negative language. And you know what we were
talking about earlier, about how you look at your body
and your body and how we look at your body especially,
it's so steeped in all of this shit that just
makes it hard to get a good.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
Nut lord.

Speaker 5 (12:07):
A hand on you, like all of those things, and
people don't realize it until.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
It's too lame, or.

Speaker 6 (12:17):
They never realize it at all at all. Yeah, I
the god fearingness. I think people like don't realize that
it removes the faith. If I'm fucking with a god
or religion because I'm afraid that I'm not going to
go to heaven. I'm not fucking with it because I
have faith and I believe that I'm unconditionally loved by
this omni as an Omni present person or whatever spirit.

(12:41):
It's because I've been told that I have to do
this or else I'm a bad person. And like for me,
Tanta was intriguing for a lot of years, but I
didn't really understand what it was, which I realized a
lot of people don't. But the thing that I gravitated
towards was that there first of all, to practice. There's
no you can't be You could be an any religious background.

(13:02):
So it's not like Christianity. If you worship or you
go to something else and this pagan then there's all
these rules around who you worship. But Tanta was healing
that was not excluding sex and sexuality, and for me,
just basic terms. As a human being, we like to fuck.

(13:25):
It is within our DNA to pro create. Not only that,
just even like the sexology part, like the clittorus is
the only body part on any.

Speaker 3 (13:34):
Body part that's solely made for pleasure.

Speaker 6 (13:36):
Now, if God is this person or this thing that
created us, but wants us to deliberately exclude the parts
of us that feel good, why the fuck would he
give me a clip?

Speaker 5 (13:48):
Listen, I don't understand how I'm supposed to be wrong
for being gay. Have you ever had your prostates stimulated?
If God created that ship we got, we gotta have
a conference. Can you get your.

Speaker 7 (14:04):
Supervisor that we gotta discuss because this feels a little
a little bit too good.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
And it's it's it's it's really sad. I mean, like like.

Speaker 4 (14:20):
The the amazing work, the insidious work that that has
been done on us, just especially on this side of
the world. You know, we we we can't even get
into what's going on in Africa right now and God
and is like insane, but like it's it's it's just

(14:41):
like wow, they they engineated so that at the at
every level, we are ostracizing each other, shaming each other,
guilting each other, you know, even though I mean, has
this long conversation with my father and it was really

(15:01):
it was really important for me to tell him this
because he was Jove a witness. I wasn't raised in
My mom was like fuck that ship. But you know,
I let him know, like you know, I don't believe
what you believe in at least bit. And I choose
my son and my brother over you and this fucking
cultier part of every time, you know. And it didn't
feel good saying that, you know, but like I meant it,

(15:23):
you know, it was there was There's not a scenario
in my existence where where I look at my son
or my brother as aberrations, you know what I'm saying
of nature something like that, which is essentially what these
these Bible thumping motherfuckers look at shit like. And and

(15:43):
it's it's frustrating. And now you you you just see
the the push towards that even more. What's what I'm
looking for? Uh uh? Orthodox type shit? You know what
I'm saying, it's just because going towards that more or more.
You see it in the book with book bannings. You

(16:05):
see it in what churches protests against versus what they
don't protest against. Right, Like you know, drag queens reading
books is evil, but putting out more guns isn't you
know what I'm saying, Like just simple shit that feels counterintuitive.
So we're we're working against how we feel, what we

(16:25):
feel is good.

Speaker 3 (16:26):
So we're working against God.

Speaker 6 (16:28):
Yes, yeah, God is the most natural thing if you
created us in your God. And I'm going against my
body and what I feel called the pleasure that I
innately feel called to. It literally is religion is constructing
a space where you go against God and what our
perception of what God is has been so fucked up
that we are thinking we're doing some good and we

(16:49):
are containing ourselves or it's under the guise of discipline.
And obviously there's discipline, there's discernment, but being as sexual
being is at our core how we create and so
to say that like that's anti God is absolutely insane.

Speaker 5 (17:04):
Yeah, remember Kelly Brown Douglas pointed us to how Christianity
and white supremacy are constructing all of these things. There's
a report by the Human Rights Council, I think it's
called Exporting Hate, and they detail how white evangelicals from

(17:26):
the United States have targeted places like Uganda and Ghana
for the last ten, fifteen, twenty years. Snaries this what
you're talking about, These anti gay legislations passed, They have
been zeroed in on these specific countries. And it's always

(17:49):
interesting having conversations amongst black folk and they're like, uh,
you know, because black you know, homosexuality and all this
this the white man that put this on us, is it?
And And I'm a historian and I've done all of

(18:12):
the work. I'm in the process of writing my second book.
So it's made me even more studious about the presence
of queer identified folk on the continent, right, and how
we didn't have this sex negativity number one, this body
negativity number two, or this queer ostralisation and hatred prior

(18:38):
to colonial forces arriving on the continent. But I'm not
even gonna argue about that. But you see, like present day,
how the ship that we have here, Christianity and white
supremacy have exported this level of hate to countries. And
it's always interesting hearing folks from the diaspora talking about how,

(19:03):
you know, the Europeans brought and this is real white
And I'm like, you don't realize how this hatred that
you're spewing is actually the import that is that is
European and white. But it's just so it's such a
tangled web. And if I could, I just want to
say this like out front so people understand my perspective.

(19:25):
I like to disclaim so people can tune me out.

Speaker 1 (19:27):
If you like to.

Speaker 5 (19:29):
I am black, I'm gay, I'm a pastor, I'm theologically
educated and have the shit you hear me say, you're
likely not going to hear. Ninety plus percent of other
pastors say interesting thing about positioning me there is Jesus
comes the same way, and seventy eighty percent of what

(19:54):
Jesus says is what gets him fucked up because he
says things other folk around him had never said before.
So I'm okay with all the religious folks who are
going to listen to this and be like, well, he's
saying this and that about God, And ain't nobody ever
said that same accusation they leveled at Jesus. I'm comfortable

(20:15):
with it. I really don't think. I really don't think.
I really don't think that we should be using the
Bible as it relates to our more ras, our ideas,
our standards about human sex and sexuality period present day.
You should not if you are using the Bible in

(20:40):
any way as it relates to human sexuality psychosocial development.
It is tantamount to somebody cutting your arm off because
you have an infection. It's outdated, it's ineffective, and it
might very well get your ass thrown in jail.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
And supremacy it is Lloyd's, it really is.

Speaker 5 (21:01):
We don't We don't use ancient means of storing food.
Ain't nobody burying shit in the ground?

Speaker 1 (21:10):
Uh?

Speaker 5 (21:11):
We know we have running water, these nice overhead lights,
none of the things they had, none of the things
that they understood. Right do we use but somehow we
still using the Bible thousands upon thousands of years later,
right to shape these ideas around sex and sexuality from
primitive people, not to mention. The terrible ass examples that

(21:38):
the Bible gives us almost every time sex is brought
up is rape, it's forced, like it's non consensual. Hello, Like,
how is where was Mary's consent in getting pregnant with Jesus?
Nigga showed up in the middle of the night, just

(21:58):
impregnated her in her sleep. That's called rape, That's what
that is. And so've we've glorified this story of God's
non consensual engagement with Mary to bring us Jesus. Some folks,
some folk got a problem with that, and we got

(22:20):
to be able to talk honestly about what's there, and
if what's there is worthy of our using it the
way that we do, it's not be honest about what
scholars think happened. That Mary was likely raped by a
Roman soldier, which was a common occurrence in first century Palestine,

(22:43):
and because of her betrothed, her fiance's status in community,
I can't let them know this Nigga rapedn girl. And
that narrative does not even show up in the earliest
tellings of Christianity. It comes later. What we get this

(23:03):
virgin birth narrative that's steeped in so much foolishness, right,
that we can't be honest about that. And so the
same way that we shame women today for rape, it
started with Mary. Yeah, that she can't even be honest
in what her experience is for the shame is gonna

(23:26):
cause somebody around her my possession and from the beginning,
and from the beginning, we got a whole lot of
work to do in unpacking the trauma around sex and
sexuality for a human beings period. And then you put
black skin on top of that, and we got a
whole lot.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
Of shit going.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
That's gotta be so hard. She's sitting there after being
raped by a Roman soldier talking about little miracle, just
a little miracle.

Speaker 4 (23:55):
It's really crazy, is seeing, Like, you know, when we
first started doing like when I first started getting involved
in sex positive aspect and stuff, and like.

Speaker 1 (24:05):
My only.

Speaker 4 (24:07):
Point that I could think of was like, all they're
the pretty sex positive in Europe. And then as I
thought about it, I was like, that's fucked up. It's
fucked up that they that that part of the world
spends so much time colonizing, brutalizing, doing all these things,
and now they're they're like, oh, you know, I get

(24:29):
to experience the sex positive thing. We're open about sex here,
open about sex there, and it's just it's it's.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
Really, it's just very frustrating.

Speaker 4 (24:38):
It's very frustrating going into spaces where that are dominantly
predominantly white, you know, and and there is no connection
yeah to that I've had.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
I've heard mee let's say this before and I'll let
you like explain it more about how white men have
to comfort to explain and explore their sexuality but black
men don't.

Speaker 6 (24:59):
I was just we were on a podcast the other
day and we were talking about our femininity and masculinity
ratio between everyone in the room. It was a ridiculous conversation.
But the white guy was like, you know, I don't
know what the fucking topic was, but it was something
and we were all like, it's because you're white. And
it's true, like white men play differently. They it's like
homoerotic like gestures. They slap each other's ass and it's like, oh,

(25:23):
you know, a big dick or you know, like I've
seen it. I grew up with a bunch of white people,
and it's interesting that they have the permission to play
in ways and for us for black women, Like that's
some gay shit.

Speaker 3 (25:35):
I don't play like that, you know what I mean.

Speaker 6 (25:37):
And it's just like a very small, uh, just a
very small look at just the difference of how we
perceive masculinity as black people. But back to your point
about like Europe and like you know, the women's tits
are out, it's normal, it's less censored. It's just that
when there has been so much trauma done to your body,

(26:01):
you can't it's hard to understand pleasure. When you were
living in a place where you were you were surviving.

Speaker 3 (26:11):
You're not thinking about pleasure.

Speaker 6 (26:13):
And even when I think about that, like in the
sense of like slavery and that people were still like
sneaking and getting married, people were still like making love.
I read I watched a documentary and there was a
story about a woman who was getting raped by her
slave master. And she was so fucking over it. She
had two kids.

Speaker 3 (26:30):
She went up into the attict for like a decade.

Speaker 5 (26:33):
Yeah, I think it was seven years.

Speaker 3 (26:35):
Yea, it was like seven years.

Speaker 5 (26:36):
She lived in the attic. They thought she was run away.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
She rather stayed there.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
I thought she was a.

Speaker 5 (26:42):
Runaway slave and she lived in that attic for years.

Speaker 6 (26:45):
Her kids were down there. She didn't communicate with them.
No one really knew she was up there. They were
feeding her secretly because she'd rather spend the years upstairs.

Speaker 3 (26:54):
Yeah, and hiding.

Speaker 5 (26:56):
And y'all know what the cross space that's that's they
they actually in that documentary. I think they have a
replica of the size of the space that she had
to live in, space crawling.

Speaker 6 (27:11):
And I think she led it later was freed and
she wrote about it. And just to think about that
concept and to think about that's just one woman's story
who had the who had the education to write about
it after so we could hear about it. But just
in the bigger, just the bigger, you know, idea of
our bodies, the trauma that lives in us, that we

(27:31):
pass on to our kids, our perception of pleasure and
of sexuality when it's laced in rooted in rape and brutal, brutal,
crazy like heinous acts to our bodies, and then us
trying to be anti religious, you know, just like re
reconnect our pleasure and our birthrights and our bodies to

(27:53):
how we are existing right now.

Speaker 3 (27:55):
It's so it's been so disconnected.

Speaker 5 (27:57):
Not break the fourth wall real quick in my phone
is right here. Do you mind handing that to him
for a second, because I don't want to fuck up
this quote. And it's interesting that you talked about how
white men and black men are able to experience sexuality
differently and the power dynamic that exists there. Kelly Brown

(28:20):
Douglas again, I have I have them saved because I'll
be ready. She talks about uh Fucul's theory of power
and how everything that is playing out in sexual discourse
is actually a discourse about power, and she says that

(28:41):
white supremacies aim to question or impune a person's sexuality.
Human sexuality, not orientation of another boasters one's own claim
to superiority, as it suggests another group's inferiority, and therefore

(29:04):
to malign at people's sexuality is to call into question
their very humanity. Basically that that white folk have used
sexual discourse as a tool for power, right right. Another
author says that that black sexuality has always been queer,

(29:25):
it's always been other under the guys of whiteness. Right
that it's always less than, it's always negative, it's always dark.
There's something about that black temptress that that she just
wants to seduce the white man. There's something about the
black buck to make us less than human. Is this

(29:51):
exercise and a power dynamic, right, And so it would
make sense that the person who's at the top of
that pure man is able to express an experience and
walk their sexuality in whatever way they want. But I
get to impugne yours because it imputes to me power.

Speaker 6 (30:10):
It's the same thing as white people going into ancient
pyramids and taking information and using it for themselves. It's
the same thing if I tell you you only exist
from your knees up.

Speaker 3 (30:21):
Ye, you're not going to be able to access your
feet because I told you it didn't exist. If I
demonize using feet for four hundred, seven hundred years, and
you're fucking stuck right here because you're not using your
feet because some person in power told you you cannot
utilize that. You're not going to get up and walk
out the fucking room, right.

Speaker 4 (30:39):
And I just told you, But like beat it into you, right,
cut feet off.

Speaker 6 (30:46):
You're a cellular makeup, so that this exists in your
kids and their kids, even if I didn't directly beat them.
So it's this idea that even as an entantra like
it literally means weaving lights and sound with form the weaving.
But if we heal everything but here, we're not really healing.

(31:06):
If we're ignoring these roots. I could be so fuck
I could be the number one bitch in the church.
I could be the most intellectual. I could go to
so many colleges. I could work out every day.

Speaker 3 (31:15):
I could be drinking fucking green jees juice. I could
be vegan.

Speaker 6 (31:18):
But if I'm not healing by energetic body that is
rooted in this place where we exchange and find community
and intimacy, then I'm not able to heal myself one
hundred percent because I'm only using a portion of where
and who I am. And sexuality is such a big

(31:38):
part of who we are, and I'm really realizing it's
such a big part of connection, and connection is such
a big part of community and of love, and if
I remove that part, it is going to be difficult
for me to fully access love of my children, to
fully access love of my lover, because just inherently cutting

(32:00):
out parts of your pleasure, you will not be able
to experience high levels of pleasure because you've cut it
off in ways.

Speaker 4 (32:06):
And then you you project that onto your kids and
then onto their kids, and I think.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
It's it's it's interesting, like like black men bipoc men,
because you know, me, being.

Speaker 4 (32:23):
Of of of indigenous and black and Indigenous background, I
see a lot of similarities. Our per perception and perspective
of what masculinity is is already so skewed.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
It's so it's it's it's it's almos it's it's a.

Speaker 4 (32:40):
Caricature, you know, living in Mexico, like the machismo and
ship then you know, coming up here and familiarizing myself
with African American communities and Caribbean communities and just seeing
like the same there is, there is this incredible love
that won't pass physically because people aren't hugging, people aren't touching.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
So it's it's like this.

Speaker 4 (33:08):
Thing here and and and I see it, you know,
and I feel it around around certain spaces, and it's
it's just really it's a mind fuck. It's it's a
mind fuck that you got dudes out here, you know,
just waxing poetics about like fucking like what you what
are you talking about?

Speaker 1 (33:26):
That our masculinity is under attack? Like what? What? What
is masculinity? Who's attacking it.

Speaker 4 (33:34):
You know, if this is masculinity, it should be destroyed,
it should be stomped on and just fucking start clean
because it's and jamake it even broader. Just I feel
more men inherently are dangerous.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
You know, they're dangerous.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
We are dangerous and and and we for the wrong things.

Speaker 4 (33:55):
I mean dangerous danger like like whether or not we
are physically doing things, if we're not stopping it, we're dangerous.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
We're not other accountable. You know what I'm saying, it's dangerous.

Speaker 5 (34:08):
Let's keep going, because it wasn't. It wasn't the sis
heater or a woman or the gay black man that
said it.

Speaker 4 (34:15):
I just wanted to say, we are dangerous and we
need to stop kping like we're not all men. Like really,
at a point, at one point, you know, have you
done the work? Have have you sat with yourself self
and said, Wow?

Speaker 1 (34:35):
Have I ever.

Speaker 4 (34:37):
You know, imposed my presence on somebody? Have I ever
quieted somebody? Have I ever just disregarded somebody?

Speaker 1 (34:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (34:46):
I've had to tell somebody this recently that the reason
why like men are dangerous, why because men might say like, oh,
not all men, is that if you're in a room
with ten men, two of those men, two of those
men men's two of those men are dangerous, right, One
of those men are probably going to say something, and

(35:07):
the other seven probably won't say anything at all. And
it's those nine men that makes shit very hard for
the rest of us.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
Another thing that I wanted to say and I didn't
want to forget it was we were talking about during slavery, right,
and people were still getting married and things like that,
but also even still having sexual acts during that time,
Like you're going through this period where your your body
is under control by someone else and you're still sneaking

(35:38):
and finding ways to access pleasure. And it for me
because I couldn't really be Christian. I'm way too sexually active,
I've read too sexually explored it. I was like, this
is just not going to work for me. But me
and Mila were watching the show and I think I
believe it was the same show, and we came to
when we learned about like you know, people not learned about,

(36:00):
but it was more apparent that slaves were still getting married,
jumping the broom, finding different ways like go about marriage.
But also you're in slavery, how are you finding the
time to be horny, right, how are you finding the
time to like access pleasure and have sex? And I
realized with also what we're talking about right now, that
pleasure and intercourse is so healing that one of the

(36:24):
ways that they were able to push through and keep
going was by accessing their pleasure and some types of
in different types of ways, even under this heineous act
of slavery. And so it pushes just my opinion on
why certain religions try to make the disconnect between healing
and pleasure or try to cut you away from your

(36:45):
pleasure is because of how healing that pleasure is and
how it pushes you and powerful it is.

Speaker 4 (36:51):
Yeah, like for me, the the the thought of in
a consensual moment to humans and let's let's just for
that for just we'll go with the binary, right, because
if you're anywhere anything but that during that time, it's insane,
you know what I'm saying. But you're a male who's

(37:15):
been used to breed, you're a woman whose kids have
been taken away, and then somehow it's all that bullshit
you manage to connect with each other, you know.

Speaker 1 (37:28):
Like hu mad like that. That's fucking insane. You know
what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (37:32):
You get that moment of just human contact, you're twenty
minutes of humanity if that, you know what I'm saying.
And then back to the chattel slavery shit, and it's insane,
It's absolutely insane, and that shit is in us and
we have to work constantly to fight that, you know,

(37:54):
and you know, and even in that, there was still
queer folks, you know what I'm saying, Even in that,
there were.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
Still queer folks through all that. Like it's just so
I don't I don't.

Speaker 4 (38:05):
I don't understand what this narrative about. And this narrative
is largely uneducated motherfuckers. That's that's the funny part, you
know what I'm saying. Just people like what are you
talking about?

Speaker 1 (38:20):
Like please cite.

Speaker 6 (38:27):
It goes back to the nigga's not reading books and
stating as facts and it is and even like you
don't even there's a book called post Traumatic Slave Syndrome
that I don't even know if it goes deeply into
the sexual parts of how we show up. But I
was looking at something online and I don't know what
it was. It was like they were saying something about
slavery and people. I was reading the comments and they're like,

(38:48):
this is a reach, and I was like, no, nigga,
it's not because I think systematically they've made it feel
like some very far away thing that happened to us,
when if we don't study our history, we won't understand
how it shows up in us. And just as much
as we talk about healing, and I think we associate
healing with it having to be hard and difficult, and

(39:09):
I think we forget that radical pleasure is a part
of the healing and reconnecting with our pleasure for ourselves
and our partners. Like that hashtag black love, that's some
real shit, because if we can find each other and
heal and withstand to love each other and connect in
certain ways, it is revolutionary because we have been prevented

(39:31):
from doing that for so long, even to the point
where I always it trips me out, even in a
relationship that I'm super happy and healthy, and even in
a place in my life where.

Speaker 3 (39:40):
I'm like safe.

Speaker 6 (39:41):
You know, the last two years I had to tell
myself like you're safe and like being happy, but feeling
distant from the happiness, I was like, I'm so in love.

Speaker 5 (39:53):
Let's just joking last night with our partner. Like you know,
it's not toxic, so it's not real.

Speaker 6 (40:02):
It's almost like, yeah, I could see.

Speaker 5 (40:08):
You have to you have to coat yourself into sometimes.

Speaker 7 (40:11):
Like you're happy, be happy, like like I feel this
ready for end.

Speaker 6 (40:19):
Because because we see white people and happily ever after
is we see white people have good jobs and white
people have nice houses and have these nice weddings or whatever.
So it's like when you sit in and you're like,
I'm happy, I'm healthy, my bills are paid, and wrong.

Speaker 5 (40:31):
Yeah it's coming.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
I don't know what it is.

Speaker 4 (40:34):
I can't trust, especially if you're attaching like guilt of pleasure,
right because like so so for me me doing the
work around, it.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
Was I had to make myself safe mm hmm.

Speaker 4 (40:49):
And the reason I say mental dangerous because what is
danger right, I'm not saying we're all killing people, but
you know there's that gray area that aside that, there's
a gray area of how we treat people. There's the mistrust,
there's the lies, and then when you do the work
and you're in a moment of pleasure and you realize, oh,
I traumatize myself because I feel guilty that I'm having

(41:11):
pleasure right now because I've associated my pleasure with someone
else getting hurt, you know what I'm saying. So that
kind of thing is also like I think a lot.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
Of men, it's a lot of humans.

Speaker 4 (41:21):
But again speaking from my perspective, there's a lot of
work that needs to be done around that where it's
it's it's just.

Speaker 1 (41:28):
Like, let's just talk. Let's talk.

Speaker 5 (41:32):
Or the idea that you have to earn pleasure, that
you have to earn the space to feel good, right,
no shade to earn your leisure, but this idea that
as a human being, I have to earn the right

(41:54):
to enjoy life, to rest like And that's like you
have to earn the space for pleasure.

Speaker 6 (42:02):
You're not inherently deserving of the top notch pleasure in
your life.

Speaker 5 (42:06):
It's crazy. It's maddening that that people operate that way.
One of the things that I get a lot because
I've understood for a long time that I'm a healer
period like wherever I show up, and so as a

(42:29):
black gay man existing in hookup culture, still healing people.
Right that the sex that I engaged in was healing
to motherfuckers in ways that they didn't understand or that
they were like, yo, what just happened, And and me
having to tell people like it's okay, Like it's okay

(42:52):
for you to feel what you're feeling right now, and
that you should go back into your life and expect
this and reproduce this in your sex because a lot
of the times like and it's and it's worse, I
think with black gay men, because we are reproducing onto

(43:14):
each other the same ship, right, at least theoretically, if
I was straight, like you have something that you're gonna
offer us different, that might cause me to pause or
that'll counter. But we we passing back and forth the
same ship, right, the same toxic masculinity, the same ideas
of ownership right in possession of somebody else's body, and

(43:37):
the jealousy and rage and anger because of uncertainty, Like
we that's that's all we got. These two black boys
that talk about y'all were to fucking love each other.
That's all we have. And so I had to make
a choice to engage sex with other black men differently,

(43:58):
that when you leave this experienceperience, it is going to
be different than whoever else, right, And trapped in that
is this idea that motherfuckers also have to earn love,
and that you have to throttle your ability to express
and give love. Now, you got New York Times or

(44:23):
Pure or whoever the fuck writing about an epidemic of
loneliness for black men.

Speaker 3 (44:29):
Touch starves, right, you have not?

Speaker 5 (44:32):
I yo the fact if you watch kids, if you
observe children who haven't been positively touched, right, there's a
behavioral difference in them. And so many of those children
grow up to be adult human beings who are living

(44:56):
these touch starved, love starved lives, and it wreaks havoc
on everything else that we do. And so like my
friends have been like, bro, you be doing too much,
Like you let bottoms come to your house and shower
and prep at your house like this just supposed to
be a hit and quit. And I'm like, sir, let's

(45:18):
just talk about this. You want the best possible pleasurable
experience you want, right, That's what you want when you
have sex. So why wouldn't I make you comfortable? Why
would not offer you the space that hey, right, since
I know there's this bottom anxiety about being prepared, why
would I offer you the space to say, hey, I

(45:40):
don't want you to have that anxiety. So if you
need to go do a safety check, go ahead. If
you need to use the shower, go ahead. Here's here
are the things that you can use. Go ahead, So
that I could get the experience that I.

Speaker 3 (45:56):
Want well offering a safe haven.

Speaker 6 (45:59):
It's like, why do I feel comfortable with someone coming
in my body but not coming to use my shower?

Speaker 4 (46:06):
And it's crazy because you're also touching, You're also broadening
your spectrum of pleasure. It's like, look, it's not just me, Yeah,
it's not just my nut. This is like two humans
right here are in the same space. We should all
feel extra comfortable, extra safe.

Speaker 5 (46:22):
I've learned so much from you all, Like a lot
of my engagement into play spaces and sexual ethics because
I study it now and teach it, but was because

(46:43):
I had friends who were into kinks and shit like that,
and so I had to learn about consent conversations. And
so a couple of my friends have my name saved
to their fault it's Corey consent see Scott, because we
would have these conversations during the lockdown we were on

(47:07):
clubhouse and it'd be hundreds of people in the room,
and we'd be having conversations about sex and consent, and
I tell people like no means no, and silence means no,
only yes means yes, Like consent is sexy, right, And
so they saved me in their phone that way. But
learning about aftercare right, learning about being present in the

(47:32):
moment to have check ins, and the way that shit
revolutionized my sex life, just asking somebody, Hey, what what
would make you feel good right now? Is this okay?
Should we hold on? Let's slow down? I notice your
body responding in a particular way. Are you good? Breathe, breathe,

(47:57):
all of those things and and and it's deepened relationships
with people that that I've engaged sexually and that have
come back and been like, yo, I know it was
just supposed to be fucking, but there's something about you
and I wanted to talk with you. And then the

(48:21):
work of engaging their lives and the things that are
going on that are all tied up and everything that
you that you got bounded and twisted up in you right,
and having to do the work of helping people journey
toward healing and wholeness, even when it was just supposed
to be a fuck session. And I think that we've

(48:44):
lost the appreciation for our humanity and how powerful like
this is big time, right, yeah time that the level
of connection that just happens when you hold someone's hand,
let alone, when we fucking and our and our and

(49:07):
our hearts start beating the same way our breathing starts
to sync up right, our intuition links. And we miss
all of that because of all of these things that
have like trapped us and distracted us before we could
even get to the bedroom. And now you're there with

(49:28):
all this fucking baggage and women experiencing like what is it?
The numbers are like sixty plus percent have never experienced
an orgasm.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
Ends up being a higher inaccubation for some people.

Speaker 3 (49:43):
Thank you, that's welcome. I think.

Speaker 6 (49:47):
We have even removed the intimacy and platonic exchanges and
it's scary, and especially as black people like you, it
means something if I hold your hand, yeah, I want
to go home with you like this is I mean
that I was in the bar last night with Orlando
and his five friends, and I like always talk about
Mela moaning, and I'm like telling them they like and

(50:10):
they were like, no, I'm gonna grow. I was like, whatever, nagat.
But I went to another bar after that, and my
contra sister was here. We embraced for a good amount
of time because this is the nature of what we do,
and we understand the connection that the conversations our souls
need to have when I can't be like I'm overwhelmed.

Speaker 3 (50:32):
I've been to five.

Speaker 6 (50:33):
Cities, I have a lot of energy exchange. And she's
just holding me and we're breathing and moaning together in
the bar, and the guy to our right was like
looking at us, and I was like, I just went
over to him and I put my hand on his
chest and I looked in his eyes.

Speaker 5 (50:47):
Maybe he could have started crying, I know.

Speaker 3 (50:49):
He was like he kept looking.

Speaker 6 (50:51):
I was like, look at me, and I was like,
just take a deep breath, and he was like, I
was like, look at me.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
He's like I gotta go. I was like, just do
it over time.

Speaker 6 (51:00):
I'm super weird like that, But I agree that there
there will always be those, those experiences, those interactions, those
that might have changed his whole trajectory of next week.

Speaker 3 (51:11):
We don't. It's so fucking basic. It is basic.

Speaker 6 (51:15):
Shit, even like before I went to school, and I realized,
like the power of the sexual energy being present, the
intimacy that is present is healing. It's radical, but it's
been so it's been so restrained to just sex. It's
been so like minimized to just sex, and I realize,

(51:36):
like the intimacy is the game changer. It's literally like
let's indulge in pleasure and it could be platonic, but
it's still like so present. The connection is so present.
But as black people, as brown people, as just people,
or just like that's weird.

Speaker 5 (51:53):
We were talking about Orlando shared that when we first met,
I think I mentioned on the pod that I was
in therapy or sex addiction.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
Which is one of my greatest titles for him because
he's a gay pastor in therapy for sex addiction. It's like,
as soon as you say that, everybody's like, bring him.

Speaker 5 (52:15):
On the podcast. Yeah. I had a therapist for about
ten years for sexually compulsive behavior, and I learned a
great deal about what animates right, what's happening internally, subconsciously,

(52:38):
consciously that's driving you towards sex right, And basically the
field has narrowed the ideas to this idea that people
who deal with sexually compulsive behavior or sex addiction are
dealing with either love addiction or love avoidance. Right. And

(53:03):
it's based in your family of origin story, right that
during this period of your development you were looking for love.
You should have received love from the people around you, right,
your family, teachers, community, etc. And you didn't get it,
and so it creates this impulse towards wanting to get

(53:27):
this thing that you haven't love addiction. And so for
the rest of your life until you address it, you
are entering into these engagements to satiate your desire, your need.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
To feel loved.

Speaker 5 (53:41):
And the thing that chemically comes closest to the feeling
of love is sex. Reduce It releases the same chemical
endorphins in your body, the same chemical releases, right, But
it's tantamount to a sugar high. Right. Yeah, you get

(54:02):
it and it drops, and so you have to get
it again.

Speaker 3 (54:07):
And then feel kind of empty after because it's not
as feeling.

Speaker 5 (54:11):
The sugar high is not as feeling as if you
got a nutritious meal, right, And so people engage in
in sex to satiate this love addiction or the converse
of that is love avoidance. We're during that period of
your life where you are supposed to be forming these
ideas about love and what you're worthy of and should receive.

(54:35):
You didn't get those things, and the people or some
people's were harmful to you, and so subconsciously you build
up a resistance to loving relationships because those were the
people who were supposed to love me and hurt me.
And so sex is employed to stave off love because

(54:57):
nobody wants a hoe, right, nobody's gonna fall in love
with that. I can fuck you, you, you, and you,
and none of y'all gonna want because y'all all know.

Speaker 2 (55:08):
Community.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
So you use love, right.

Speaker 5 (55:12):
You use sex to avoid forming loving relationships. And I
joked with y'all earlier that if you're if you're a special,
unique case like me, you have this fucked up twist
of love addiction and love avoidance.

Speaker 3 (55:25):
You both that.

Speaker 5 (55:27):
You want to be loved. But as soon as that
alarm goes up, bitches, this love no, you got to go.
And so you sabotage the loving relationships that you're in
with sex, and then you don't got the relationship, and
now you want the relationship again because you want to
be loved and you're in a.

Speaker 3 (55:46):
Hold, and so I was.

Speaker 5 (55:48):
I went to therapy because my partner at the time
was like, yo, you cheated and we can get over that,
but you're not gonna keep doing the same ship, Like
you're gonna go to therapy and you're gonna learn some
ship or we can't do this. And I went and
I started learning about what my triggers were and and

(56:10):
and for me, one of my my big triggers is
being ignored or feeling or feeling ignored, feeling insignificant.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
And then and you have to say feeling ignored because
that's why I feel ignored different, That's.

Speaker 5 (56:26):
Why that's why I say it feeling right because I
feel it does not mean that it's real or it's happening,
but feeling that way would trigger something. And uh, the
big dick, bad bitch can't be ignored. And so so
I'm not gonna They're not gonna ignore this, right, And

(56:48):
so it gives me that power back, and so I
engage in it and it ain't realized or or or
feeling diminished or or less than and so you don't
realize how the conversation you had at work with your boss,
and they didn't fully give you credit for the ship
that you did has sent you into the spiral and

(57:09):
now you don't know why you want. I'm just horny.
And that's the that's the beginning of the ritual.

Speaker 1 (57:17):
You start, you start, you.

Speaker 6 (57:21):
Started, And I don't even have anybody I want to,
but I'm gonna find somebody because this is what I'm trying.

Speaker 5 (57:27):
Or another part of the ritual is do you smoke right?
Let me call them motherfucker I know I can smoke
with because then we're gonna get it in. And it
took me being able to one identify my triggers and
and if I if I missed the identification of the trigger,
hopefully I pick up on my boy. Are you in

(57:48):
the middle of your your ritual leading up to the composer?
Oh wait, you've been on Twitter porn for a couple
of hours today looking for what happened? What did I miss?
And then I could go back and track through what's
going on? Why am I feeling? What am I feeling right?

(58:09):
So you can address those things and have a healthy
relationship with.

Speaker 1 (58:13):
Sex as opposed to just praying it away.

Speaker 5 (58:16):
Now listen, And that's the other thing that I'm saying
they didn't have therapists in the Bible, And some of
y'all need a therapist. Some your pastor does not have
most in most cases, shout out to my friends who
are degreed as a psychiatrist, psychologists, et cetera, and our pastors.

(58:40):
But your pastor nine times out of ten ain't taking
no counseling psychology courses. He's not equipped to deal with
the ship that you got going on because he read
the Bible, just not. And and that's the way, you know,
the same way we talk about how we call the

(59:01):
police for too much ship? What the fuck are you
calling the police for noise violation for? They're not gonna
could they stop the noise? Like we're calling on pastors,
spiritual leaders whatever we're requiring too much. You not equipped
to deal with with my sexuality and my spirituality and

(59:23):
my psychology and my politics. Just you're just not.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
And all these other people right, we're gonna switch gears
because you getting way way too much sauce for free.
We're gonna we're gonna figure out how we're gonna do
a subscription page for some of these conversations, like like
one of the one I want to have specially if
is the convo about our history, uh, the history of
queerness and within religion and everything like that. And I

(59:48):
also want to talk about like love addiction and love avoidance.
We are gonna have these conversations both of you for sure,
but before I want to to speak to you before
we get out of here, about the healing part, right,
because you're saying that you know your pastors aren't equipped
to help you heal, but you do call yourself a
healer and you're a pastor. Lovely lady right here is

(01:00:09):
a sexologist and tantric practitioner now right, and you both
are equipped to heal. So, but I wanted to ask,
like in your both tantray, I feel like it's more
spiritual and you have a more religious background with your healing.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
No want to know.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
That a lot of these spaces can be damaging. But
what is the healing part of you know, your practice
within religion or how you go about it, right.

Speaker 5 (01:00:35):
So, I think it's important for people to understand the
distinction between religion and spirituality, right, that spirituality is all
of our birthright, that we if you choose to recognize
some sense of spirituality, that that's just what it is,

(01:00:55):
and that religion is the structured practice of some sense
of spirituality. And so I operate in a religious structure
and culture as a Christian, I understand that spirituality is
much broader, much wider than that, and so I go
to yoga. I have an acupuncturist, I've done reiki, I've

(01:01:19):
worked with tantric practitioners, because it's not my job to
tell spirit how spirit can show up. I remember the
first time I was in acupuncture and I felt the
presence of God come into the word. I said, now,
it shook me. I said, wait, what the fuck just

(01:01:40):
happened here?

Speaker 6 (01:01:41):
That's the Holy Spirit right there in acupuncture, And it shifted.

Speaker 5 (01:01:47):
My acupuncturist has shifted my ideas about spirituality. He's brilliant
and beautiful and passionate, right, And so my idea is
about spirituality extend far beyond Christianity, because it's not my
business to tell God how God can show up anywhere

(01:02:09):
God decides to, like I'm here, like I don't. I
don't got enough days on the job, I don't got
enough degrees historical, Like if we believe the shit we
say we believe about God, that God has been here
from the beginning and all of this, How is it
that I understand I've been here less than one hundred years,
and I understand so much that I can speak definitively

(01:02:32):
about God. And so because I recognize that I'm not
trapped in Christianity to deal with all of these things
that people are bringing right, and I understand how God
or Spirit can heal through breath work that a whole

(01:02:53):
lot of us just need some more oxygen. None of
the this is of after care that I'm telling you.
Motherfuckers are not learning how to even care for yourself
in everyday life the way that you can from from
the kink and fetish and play community. So many of

(01:03:13):
us have not healed from physical injuries because you didn't
get a good after care regimen. And the only how
I recognize that was engaging some of these spaces as
a pastor who not supposed to be around motherfuckers fucking
fucking because everybody ain't fucking right, that's not happening on

(01:03:35):
the planet. We're supposed to act like said made yeah,
And so I've had to I've had to like let
go of me trying to control God control how God
shows up, control how God can be heard, control how

(01:03:55):
God can be felt. That's not my business. That's that's
God's business. I show up, I do the assignment God
gave me, and so I try to use that. My
introduction for a lot of people is Christianity, and some
people need that to be the entry point. Some people
are not going to hear that it's okay for you

(01:04:19):
to like to get your rocks off this particular way
until they hear it from a pastor.

Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
You're familiar.

Speaker 6 (01:04:28):
We seek permission, Yeah, as humans, we seek permission. And
I'm so all you said is like, yes, I think
like you said, we're not breathing. Our nervous systems are
so wound up. They're not regulated. We're not even aware
of it. So a lot of times when there are
opportunities to meet God and have these orgasmic experiences, we

(01:04:52):
are not even trained in cry, breathe connects, relax because
we haven't done it. So there's so much to what
you just said. But there has been a sup like
a huge amount of the time, even in discovering the
healer in me and realizing like literally being in a
fucking slut and being like why are you crying?

Speaker 3 (01:05:14):
Like let me hold you?

Speaker 6 (01:05:15):
Yes, and literally like asking, asking, like fucking psychics, Am
I was I a sexual healer in my other life?
Like no, I'm like, no, bitch, you're one in this
life right now, right. But but I have experienced God
in orgasmic places and there is sexual energy present, and

(01:05:37):
there is no sex. I have been to yoga and
bent this way and laughed and then bent this way
and cried and had to be just sit in my
body and aware of that and okay with releasing whatever
comes out. And a lot of times we are so
contained we are not okay with letting it, like, oh

(01:05:58):
this feels weird, let me just in it. What he
just said to kind of really move something like let
me just sit in that.

Speaker 3 (01:06:05):
Damn. I do have a lot of trauma with men.
Let me just sit in that. Let me just cry.

Speaker 6 (01:06:10):
If I'm in the back seat with four friends, if
I start crying, They're like, what the fuck is wrong
with this bitch? Then I can't be I'm not in
a safe space within myself or within my community. But
if I can cry any I cried at the beginning
of the sex party because I was overwhelmed. I even
realized I was overwhelmed until somebody hugged me and I
had to just have a seat and just cry.

Speaker 3 (01:06:30):
And I didn't.

Speaker 6 (01:06:31):
I found myself searching for a reason because I was
very happy, but I just needed to regulate my nervous system.

Speaker 3 (01:06:37):
And a lot of times I've experienced it just.

Speaker 6 (01:06:44):
Communions with people that they were sexually charged and super intimate,
but there was no sex. But there's a level of
relaxation that sexual energy brings.

Speaker 3 (01:06:56):
If I can relax into connection.

Speaker 6 (01:06:58):
And then I can kind of let God come in.
And so there have been times where I've just allowed myself.

Speaker 2 (01:07:09):
Then won't let that one go by?

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
That was really good.

Speaker 6 (01:07:11):
If I can allow myself to relax in connection and
not be like, oh my god, he's holding my hand,
I don't know him, Oh my god, what does he think?

Speaker 3 (01:07:17):
This means? Oh my god, my boyfriend's right here. What
the fuck ever people think?

Speaker 6 (01:07:20):
Because there's a bunch of there's a lot of programming
that has to be disarmed to just sit and be
with God. And once you can release that and meet
yourself there, which is I realize a lot of us
we're not giving ourself the permission to do it. So
when I see somebody else in the bar moaning, You're like,
what the fuck is that bitch doing? Or crying in
the backseat? What the fuck is her problem? I'm not
allowing you to be human. And God comes in all places,

(01:07:42):
in all spaces, and there are no rules around how
God presents the divine the divinity, But if we were
too busy making it make sense, you're not going to
experience that. And I think with Tantra, I realized the
sexual healing part is like I don't need to make
it make sense, it just needs to I need to
be just allowing it to exist and to weave itself

(01:08:06):
into my world. And I realize that the orgasmic sexual
energy is necessary and healing because there's a level of
connection and intimacy that you cultivate and arousal. And I've
experienced energetic orgasms with people I didn't know very much

(01:08:27):
because I allowed myself to relax into whatever was taking place.
And I think as people, we put so many roles,
especially women listening. There's so many roles about how we
show up, if we're being whorees or sluts, and if
this is okay or acceptable, or if there's shame.

Speaker 3 (01:08:43):
Am I going to be loved after?

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
This?

Speaker 6 (01:08:45):
Is my man going to accept me and love me
after I've had this experience that was life changing for
me and necessary and really felt so good. But how
can I put into words that I had this experience
with a stranger, you know, and it's like immediately it's
like you're a whore or you're a cheater, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:09:00):
It's like, wait, let's just.

Speaker 6 (01:09:02):
Peel back all this shit, all this toxic pollution of
our beliefs, and like, do I even believe this shit?
Or did someone tell me this? And now I've programmed
it into who I am and how I show up,
And so I just think I forgot what the question was.

Speaker 2 (01:09:15):
No, we were just talking about, like we were talking
about how sex has been using a damaging way, and
now we're talking about like how y'all help other people
heal by using pleasure and things like that.

Speaker 1 (01:09:25):
What you're doing.

Speaker 3 (01:09:26):
Amazing and explaining you can't separate it.

Speaker 6 (01:09:29):
Pleasure is pleasure, pleasure sexually pleasure, like just platonically, it
is the same. And if I cut off how I
experience sexual pleasure, I'm cutting off how I experience pleasure
in all realms of my life.

Speaker 5 (01:09:42):
M h yeah. Food didn't even taste this thing.

Speaker 6 (01:09:45):
If I can't moan while I'm drinking my green juice,
if I can't look at your eyes and be like,
oh my God, I'm so happy to.

Speaker 1 (01:09:50):
See you, it's interesting. It seems like it's getting out
of your head and more into your heart.

Speaker 3 (01:09:55):
It is. It's the embodiment the progress.

Speaker 6 (01:09:59):
Here one of those times I experienced God in that spiritual,
sexually charge space. I could hear myself saying stop, let go,
and how I knew it was God. It was like
every time I would go here, I would just sit
back in it and I'd like stop, stop thinking, and
then I can go back. And that was the first
time I could really start to weave and then like

(01:10:22):
step in and out of it and see when it
was going, like getting in my head.

Speaker 5 (01:10:26):
To the to the thing you just said. And I
feel like I need to say this. So many people
abandon that voice that is closest to them, that has
been here the longest, and so many times in your life.
You have come back to the moment that if I

(01:10:47):
had just listened to that voice X y Z would
have happened differently and a mentor of mine used to say,
the closest, the most common name for God is something told.

Speaker 3 (01:10:59):
Me your intuition, and we ignore.

Speaker 5 (01:11:04):
It so much. And I know a lot of super
spiritual folks would be like, you can't be trusting just
because how you feel and not trusting how you feel?
How how has that helped you? How does that help you?

Speaker 1 (01:11:16):
Look at where you're at? Exactly?

Speaker 5 (01:11:18):
This?

Speaker 3 (01:11:18):
Will you find your people?

Speaker 5 (01:11:19):
That way?

Speaker 6 (01:11:20):
You allow God to do it's thing when you allow
things to happen. And I also think that as women
and just as men to we have to be really
clear about if it is our voice or the voice
of someone else that told us. And I think that
has been the like the unweaving that I have to do.
Do I feel guilty or do I feel guiltyca I'm
supposed to feel guilty?

Speaker 3 (01:11:40):
Right? Do I want to sell to dicks? Maybe?

Speaker 5 (01:11:43):
You know?

Speaker 3 (01:11:43):
But like, is it because someone.

Speaker 5 (01:11:44):
Told me that literally a chapter of my book?

Speaker 3 (01:11:46):
If I do this?

Speaker 6 (01:11:47):
Who told you? Is this my inner voice? Or is
this the programming?

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
So yes, this has been this has been dope.

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
I'm gonna let you know right now. This is why
I want to do this podcast talking about conversations and
ship like this exactly why I'm happy that you came
to me with this idea. In the essence of time,
we do have to wrap up, but we're going to
have many more conversations. We're going to figure out, We're
gonna We're gonna have many more conversations.

Speaker 3 (01:12:13):
Can we be friends?

Speaker 2 (01:12:14):
Now?

Speaker 5 (01:12:16):
This is listen.

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
Cory is the guy.

Speaker 5 (01:12:21):
Orlando is like one of my favorite people, and I
just wanted to say, like openly that the ability to
hold your hand, the ability to share space the way
that we have is because y'all have cultivated such great
community that in some way that he trusts me signals

(01:12:46):
to you all it's okay, right, And so I appreciate
that a great deal. I appreciate that a great deal.
I was talking to Jordan about Orlando invited me to
the play party, and I was like, Orlando knows I
don't like being around the breeders.

Speaker 6 (01:13:03):
Breeders, Yes, what do you mean.

Speaker 3 (01:13:11):
He knows I don't that's funny.

Speaker 5 (01:13:14):
And as Jordan and I talked, I said, but Orlando
wouldn't invite me into a space that's like it would
be unsafe for me. And he knows who I am,
so he wouldn't put other people in danger of my
mouth and my responses in those spaces. And so it

(01:13:36):
just speaks to again, like what you've cultivated over the
years and the people that you're in community with because
everybody don't have that, you know, and and I really
hate there's no new friends bullshit. You don't listen to Drake.
Look at Drake's life. It's not it's not your life
and his relationships like that, No new friendship is not

(01:13:59):
worth looking for him, like open up like me. So
we are changed all that?

Speaker 1 (01:14:05):
Gotcha?

Speaker 2 (01:14:06):
Gotcha? Let's do an outro. Where can people find y'all
and what y'all represent? No Christianity and not just pleasure.

Speaker 5 (01:14:14):
No, and I don't have a problem with that. A
lot of people just y'all deal with y'all issues with God.
Me and God are cool. You can find me on
all social media platforms the same way Corey L. Scott
c O R y L S c O T T
on all social media platforms or Corey L.

Speaker 1 (01:14:36):
Scott dot com.

Speaker 6 (01:14:38):
You can find me at Mila Underscore map. I have
a book out called A Good Mom's Guide to Making
Bad Choices that touches on pleasure, and you know, just
hit me up if you need a tontic practitioner or
you just want to talk.

Speaker 1 (01:14:52):
Please Brooklyn Low aka Well on tone.

Speaker 4 (01:14:55):
You can find me at Susi at n YC dot
com and hit me up if you want to have
a breakthrough.

Speaker 2 (01:15:03):
I am w H Underscore Orlando Roy. If I don't
mention the lifts of Lifestyle Social is probably gonna be
in the bio. It's gonna it's gonna happen. It's gonna happen,
It's gonna happen. It'll be ready. But yeah, I am
the big, big bad bitch. This is my amazing co
host and this is lifts of lifestyle conversations about the
lifestyle from the lifestyle awesome feeling that

Speaker 1 (01:15:29):
Allah like this