August 23, 2025 • 42 mins
In the summer of 2012, Dave Kroupa of Omaha, Nebraska was getting back into the dating scene after the end of a long-term relationship. He was looking for something casual and fun, but instead he ended up being part of a deadly love triangle involving two women - Liz Golyar and Cari Farver. But who was the stalker and who was the victim? It would take investigators years to unravel the mystery in this story of love, jealousy and obsession.
Original Love Marry Kill air date: 11/20/2023
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Original Love Marry Kill air date: 11/20/2023
Support us on Patreon
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Tina and I'm Rich. Welcome to love Mary Kell.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Just the facts. Let's talk about the case of Carrie Farvar,
Liz Gollier and Dave Krupa. That's not I think we should.
(00:26):
I think people are going to want to know what happened.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
To get so nervous? Would you say this recap? Okay,
I'm going to try to do it quick because sometimes
they go along too long, and I'm going to need
your help because I was listening and I didn't take
a ton of notes. So our main character is Liz
what's her last name? Gollier, Liz Gollier. Liz Gollier had
a She had a tough time growing up. Her mom
(00:51):
died when she was young, and she and her brother
were put in foster care. I believe she was eventually
adopted into a nicer family. She has some issues, like
she's just not right. She has a couple of kids.
Her kids are like ten and eleven. At the time
of the story. She wasn't with the father of her
children very long, right, is that true?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (01:15):
And she's obsessed with this fellow named Dave Krupa, who
is like a mechanic and obsessed might be putting it lightly,
so poor Dave. Dave was with Amy. They had a
long term relationship. They had a couple of kids. They
were together for twelve years and they broke up. Dave
was like, I am just going to date. I'm going
to have a good time, and I'm not going to
(01:35):
get serious with anyone. And then he met Liz, and
he was trying to keep it kind of mellow, but
Liz is very intense and she would send him like
hundreds of text messages and emails and she wanted it
to be become more serious. And then he would try
to break up and then she'd say, oh, I left
my pants at your house, so I need to come
and get my pants. And then they would have sex.
(01:57):
And because Dave is weak, and then Dave was like,
I've had enough, and then he started I'm already going
on too long. He met Carrie. Carrie seemed like a
really nice, pretty young a lovely young woman. Actually all
these people are in their thirties. They're all thirty somethings.
And they had been dating for a couple of weeks.
Carrie was hanging out at Dave's house and she disappeared. Yeah,
(02:21):
but then she and then she no one ever talked
to her again. And then but she's sending all these
horrible messages to Dave. She has a teenage thun named
Max who she's been on for like six weeks at
this point, and her mom is really concerned. And I
actually know she at the point where she was gone
for a year. Yeah, and Max is with Carrie's mom, yep.
(02:44):
And you're gonna what else I mean?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
There was It wasn't just like harassing text messages. There
was also things going on like bricks being thrown through
Dave's window, cars, both Dave's and Liz's cars being keyed,
and vandalism and yeah, just all kinds of horrible stuff.
And it was mostly targeted at Dave and Liz. And
it appeared that it was coming from Carrie. That's what
(03:07):
Dave just assumed that it was from Carrie. But we
know it well.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
And Carrie was posting on her Facebook and she had
posted a picture of an engagement ring, right, Yeah, that
was weird.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, it was like Carrie. It was almost like she
was living this imaginary life where she and Dave are together,
which wasn't the case.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
So yeah, all right, tell us more all right.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
So we are now into twenty fourteen. So Carrie disappeared
in November of twenty twelve, so we're now over a
year has passed, and the harassment has been going on.
All these emails, all this stuff has been going on
for over a year now. In January of twenty fourteen,
Dave invited Heather, an old friend of his and sometimes girlfriend,
(03:49):
to visit from Sioux Falls, South Dakota, where Dave was from.
He had gone to high school there. Heather came to visit.
They ended up in Dave's bedroom and then they heard
a rattling at his patio door, like someone was trying
to open it. Heather was freaked out, but Dave was like, Ah,
don't worry, it's just my stalker. This is just the
way it is, Oh okay. And then suddenly there was
(04:11):
a sound of shattering glass and they found a brick
on the bathroom floor. Heather was freaking out by this point,
but again Dave was surprisingly calm. He's just like, this
is just how my life is.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Well, and you had said we didn't talk about this,
but Dave had kind of developed some bad habits. He
was drinking too much, he'd gained a bunch of weight,
and it was.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Just under a lot of stress. I mean he's getting
like sixty emails and messages a day from this stalker.
So he did end up calling the police. They came out,
took a report, but there wasn't a whole lot else
that they could do. Dave then told Heather about the
whole situation, how he and this other woman, Liz were
being constantly harassed by this woman, Carrie, that he had
(04:51):
only dated for two weeks over a year ago. Heather,
who was much more perceptive than Dave, said, maybe this
is Liz who threw the through the window after all.
If this Carrie is so obsessed with you, why hasn't
she shown herself to you in over a year. And
Dave was like, no, it couldn't be Liz. We've both
received messages many times when we're together, and Liz is
(05:14):
always terrified when it happens. Later in twenty fourteen, Dave
took Liz with him on a trip to Sue Falls,
a two and a half hour drive to see some
of his old friends and family. While there, they visited
one of Dave's oldest and best friends, a woman named
tay Andy Braver or Tay. Tay was married with two kids,
(05:35):
and she had always been purely platonic friends with Dave.
She had known him since he was in diapers, and
she thought of him as a little brother. At the
end of their visit, Tay, being polite, said to Liz, oh,
you should come back and visit sometime. Just by that
little nicety, she had no idea what she was getting
herself into, because a few weeks later, she gets a
(05:56):
call from Liz asking what are you doing this weekend?
Hay said, not much, just hanging out, and before she
knew it, Liz was at her doorstep with a suitcase,
ready to stay the weekend. Liz seemed surprised that there
was a house full of people. Tay's husband and kids
were there, and her father in law was also staying
with them. Liz seemed to think that it would be
(06:18):
just her and Tay hanging out, having a girl's weekend together.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Tay was very polite, probably too polite, inviting Liz into
her home to stay for the weekend when she really
barely knew her. At one point, Heather dropped by, so
Heather was the one that had come to see Dave
that he had known since high school. She was also
friends with Tay, and she was also the one that
suggested to Dave that maybe Liz was the one who
broke the window. But anyway, she showed up at Tay's house.
(06:45):
Tay introduces her to Liz and Liz says, oh, Heather, Oh,
you're the one who came to see Dave. He should
have brought you to my place when crazy Carrie threw
the brick through the window. Heather was not buying into
Liz's bullshit even a little bit. She said, I don't
even know you, Why would I stay at your house.
Liz then asked what were you doing at Dave's and
(07:06):
Heather said, you know, Dave and I have been friends
with benefits for decades. I'll always be here. I was
here before you, and I'll be here after you. You're
just the Wednesday girl, referring to Dave's commitment to see
Liz every Wednesday couch. And then Heather walked out, leaving
Liz fuming. The weekend got even weirder, though Liz suggested
today that they should go visit Dave's parents, who lived nearby.
(07:30):
Tay called Dave's mom to see if they could come by,
which was surprising to Dave's mom because she didn't really
know Tay that well and she didn't know Liz at all.
But apparently everyone in Sioux Falls, except maybe Heather, is
polite to a fault, so she said, sure, come on over.
After they got there, Liz went on and on about
the stalker situation, worrying Dave's parents. They had already actually
(07:54):
bought Dave a gun for protection, but Liz was like,
he probably needs some more guns just to be safe.
After they left Dave's parents home, Liz suggested they go
out to dinner, so Tay and her husband took her
to a Chinese place. After ordering, Liz got up to
use the restroom and she didn't come back for a
long time. Finally Tay went to check on her, and
(08:15):
she found her in the restroom on the phone with
Dave having a heated argument, probably because Dave had no
idea that Liz had gone to see his friend, can
you imagine. Finally Liz came back to the table and
the dinner continued awkwardly, with Liz not saying a whole lot,
and of course, when the bill came there was no
offer from Liz to chip in or pay for the
(08:36):
tip or anything. But wait, it gets weirder still. As
bedtime approached, it was awkward because there wasn't a spare
bed at Tay's house because their father in law. Her
father in law was staying with them. Tay's husband was
on a different schedule because he had been working third
shift and he was planning to stay up and play
video games, so Tay said that Liz was welcome to
(08:57):
sleep with her in their queen sized bed. At one
point during the night, Tay rolled over to find Liz
with her eyes wide open, just staring at her.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
I mean that doesn't surprise me at all.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Liz woke up at five am and she said I
want to go home now, which was fine by Tay,
who hadn't gotten any sleep at all. She thought that
Liz was very odd but harmless. Liz left, but soon
after she started calling and texting Tay regularly like they
were BFFs. She invited Tay to come stay with her,
but Tay always found an excuse. Coincidentally, Tay also started
(09:34):
getting fifty to one hundred texts and emails from Carrie
accusing her of being one of Dave's whores.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Where is Liz living at this point? Is she still
living with Todd?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yeah? Yeah, she's living with Todd. Overall, twenty fourteen was
very similar to twenty thirteen. The onslaught of messages continued,
targeted at Dave, Liz, Dave's ex amy, and any woman
that Dave dated. Nancy would occasionally get messages allegedly from
Carrie that seemed designed to get her hopes up, only
(10:05):
to be dashed again. There was no progress in the
police investigation and no closure for Carrie's family. So now
it's twenty fifteen, more than two years have passed since
Carrie's disappearance. The harassment and the stalking continued, but finally
there was progress in the investigation.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Why didn't Dave change his phone number?
Speaker 2 (10:26):
He did multiple times? Oh okay, yeah, and miraculously, miraculously,
this crazy Carrie somehow found his new number every time.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
So in the.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Investigation, these two detectives from the Pottawatamee County Police Department
in Iowa, Jim Dody and Ryan Avis, they had heard
some water cooler talk about the Carrie Farvar missing persons
and the harassment case, and they were intrigued, and so
they asked if they could be assigned to the case.
The deputy who had been in charge of the investigation
(10:59):
was more than happy to get this one off his desk,
and so he turned over the files. Avis and Dody
started with the very basic fact that there were two possibilities.
Either Carrie was alive and she was responsible for all
the harassment, or she was dead and therefore someone else
was doing the harassing. So they split the investigation in two.
(11:21):
Avis investigated on the assumption that Carrie was alive and
Dody approached it assuming that Carrie was dead. Avis quickly
came to the conclusion that it was highly unlikely that
Carrie was still alive. No one had seen her for
two and a half years, her bank account and her
credit cards hadn't been touched, her car was abandoned, and
(11:43):
if that was the case, if she wasn't alive, then
who would have the motive to not only kill Carrie
but also make it appear that she was still alive
and to do this for going on three years. They
took another close look at Dave Krupa, but it just
didn't fit. David been super cooperative and they just didn't
(12:03):
think that he had anything to do with this. However,
they did notice that Liz's name seemed to come up
a lot when they look back at the text that
Carrie had sent to her supervisor resigning and saying that
she was moving to Kansas for a new job. This
was sent three days after Carrie disappeared. They found it
interesting that the text actually mentioned Liz or Shanna as
(12:24):
her real name is. The text said I won't be
coming back. I'm taking a job in Kansas. Sorry for
the short notice. I am sending someone out to you
to fill the position. Her name is Shanna Gallier. What so, Carrie,
who is a software developer, she resigns and recommends a
woman who has no background at all in programming. Yeah,
(12:47):
it was ludicrous. Liz actually did fill out an application
at West Corporation around that time, and she listed Carrie
Farvar as a reference, but she obviously didn't have any
qualifications for the job and so she wasn't even considered
for it. So you may not remember this, but detectives
downloaded the data from both Liz and Dave's phones way
(13:08):
back in early twenty thirteen when all the harassment started,
so that they could sift through all of the threatening
emails that they were both getting from Carrie. So now
detectives Avis and Dody started looking more closely at Liz.
They revisited the data that they had downloaded from her phone.
They saw the dynamics of Dave and Liz's relationship, and
(13:29):
they noticed that Liz seemed very obsessive, very possessive, jealous.
They also went back to the photo of the check
that Carrie had supposedly sent to her mom saying that
she had sold her furniture to Liz. According to Liz,
Carrie had stolen her checkbook, but no one had actually
bothered to check the signature on the check to see
(13:50):
if it matched Lizz. Sure enough, it did. Digging deeper,
they saw that Liz had made six calls to Carrie
Farverar's home phone about one week before Carrie's disappearance, and
that she had entered Star sixty seven before each of
these calls to block caller ID. They also found a
photo on Liz's phone of Carrie's Ford Explorer. The photo
(14:13):
was taken on Christmas Eve of twenty twelve, when her
car was officially missing, two weeks before it mysteriously appeared
in the parking lot of Dave's apartment. All right, let's
take a quick break. We'll be right back. So they
were now starting to narrow in on Liz, but everything
(14:36):
they had was very circumstantial. The detectives remembered that there
had been an unidentified fingerprint found on a mint container
in Carrie's car. They compared them to Liz's prince. I'm
not sure how they had Liz's prince, but they were
able to compare them, and sure enough, it was a match. Again,
a great piece of evidence, but very circumstantial. After all,
(14:58):
Dave had probably been in Carrie's car, maybe he put
the mint container there and Liz had touched it sometime before.
The detectives continued gathering evidence through the rest of twenty fifteen.
In the meantime, Todd got fed up with Liz and
asked her to move out of his house. She refused,
saying she couldn't afford a place on her own. Dave
(15:20):
also finally had enough of Liz. They were supposed to
spend Thanksgiving me I know, right. They were supposed to
spend Thanksgiving Day of twenty fifteen together, but Dave got
an urgent call from Amy that morning. So Amy actually
had a new baby who was a year and a
half old. I'm not sure who the baby's father was,
but I don't think he was in the picture. Her
(15:41):
baby was sick and had spiked a fever of one
hundred and three and was having trouble breathing. There had
been a blizzard, and Amy was afraid of driving to
the hospital, so she called Dave to see if he
would drive them. Even though this wasn't Dave's baby, he
was happy to help. Liz was just beside herself that
Dave would cancel their plans to go help his ex,
(16:01):
and he was disgusted by how selfish she was and
told her that it was over, this time for good.
Soon after that, Dave woke to find his phone blowing up.
Every woman in his phone's contact list was mad at him.
During the night, they had all received rude, crude texts
from Dave, and they were all texting him to demand
(16:22):
an explanation. Now, Dave was a notoriously heavy sleeper, and
he realized that whoever sent the texts he still assumed
it was Carrie, must have snuck into his bedroom picked
up his phone from his bedside table and sent all
those texts from his apartment while he was sleeping. Oh
I know. Shortly after that, he also noticed that his
(16:43):
gun was missing from the closet where he kept it.
By December, detectives Dodie and Ryan were sure that Liz
was responsible for Carrie's disappearance and all of the harassment
that came after it, but they still had no real
evidence that would hold up at trial. They wanted to
talked to Liz, but they had to be really careful.
They didn't want to tip her off that they were
(17:04):
onto her. So imagine their surprise when they saw Liz
walking down the hallway at the Sheriff's office on December
fourth of twenty fifteen. They had studied her for months,
but they had never seen her in person. They later
said that it was like spotting a celebrity. It turned
out that Liz had come in to file a harassment
report against Amy Flora Dave's X after Are You Dubious?
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
After Detective Avis found out why Liz was there, he
thought fast and he ran out to the parking lot
before she left, and he told her that he had
been assigned to her case, and he asked if he
could come back to her house and take the report.
She told him that Amy was the ex of Dave Krupa,
a guy she had been seeing, and that Amy was
stalking her on Facebook, and that she was worried because
(17:53):
Dave's gun had been stolen and she suspected it was Amy.
Officer Avis played dumb like he didn't know anything about
Dave Krupa or anything else. I heard a little clip
of this on one of the shows I watched. It
was kind of funny because he's like, Dave Cooper, how's
that spelled? And she's like, no, it's Krupa. He was
just completely like playing dumb. He asked if he could
(18:13):
get a download of her phone's contents so that he
could look over all the texts that she had claimed
to have come from Amy, and Liz agreed. Avis gave
Liz his phone number and he said, call me anytime
if anything else happens. So when you turn in your
phone to the police to have them download your data,
there are two approaches they can take. The first, which
(18:34):
is what they did the first time they had Liz's
phone nearly three years earlier, is just a simple download
of all the files, the texts, the emails, and so on.
The more thorough download, though, which they did this time,
is basically making a full physical duplication of everything in
the phone's storage and memory. That would allow them to
(18:54):
not only look at Liz's files, her photos, her emails,
and texts, but it would also allowed them to recover
data that had been deleted.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
I just think it's so funny that Liz called the
police saying she's stocking at Facebook. He was like, Oh, no,
you're being stocked on Facebook. I know, it's it's just silly.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
It is silly, but I think, you know, the main
thing was that Dave's gun was stolen, so she was worried,
like but she was obviously trying to build up this
whole thing like Amy was out toget her. Right. So
the next evening after that conversation with the police, on
December fifth, of twenty fifteen, Liz told Todd that she
was going to Walmart. Todd was surprised because she never
(19:38):
told him where she was going, and besides, he really
didn't care where she went. He just wanted her out.
But instead of going to Walmart, Liz went to Big
Lake Park in Council Bluffs, which is a one hundred
and ninety one acre park known for its lakes, and
it's also known as being the site of an alleged
UFO crash in nineteen seventy seven. Liz wasn't there to
(19:59):
search for UFOs, though she later said that she went
there to do some thinking, but instead of a peaceful,
contemplative evening, Liz called nine one one at six forty
one pm saying, I've been shot in the leg. The
person who shot her Amy Flora. Liz said, I know.
Liz said that Amy had come up to her and said,
(20:20):
so you like fucking Dave, and then she shot her
and ran away. Paramedics arrived to find Liz had been
shot through the thigh and her pant leg was soaked
with blood. They took her to the hospital while police
searched the park. They brought in a helicopter with a
searchlight and an infrared heat detector, but all they found
were a couple of homeless people camped out in the park. Meanwhile,
(20:43):
Amy was sitting on her couch playing games on her
iPad when a pounding came at her door. Open up police.
She opened the door to three officers, guns drawn and
pointed at her. She was terrified and she burst into tears.
They questioned her, and they believed her story that she
had and sitting on her couch playing games on the
iPad for the last hour or so while her baby
(21:04):
was sleeping. They checked her car. They found that the
engine was cold, confirming that she hadn't driven anywhere in
it recently. To be certain, though, they asked her to
come in and take a lie detector test, which she
readily agreed to. The problem was though Amy failed the
polygraph test, this isn't actually too surprising, as the false
positive rate, that is, the percentage of time when an
(21:26):
honest person is incorrectly found to be lying, is somewhere
around twenty percent.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Detective I think it would be higher.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
I mean twenty percent. That's quite a bit, right. It
kind of makes you wonder how I know polygraph tests
aren't admissible in court, and I think that's the reason why.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Keep saying this. But we need we need to break
that down into an episode on it, because it is
really interesting to me that it's used so often yet
so unreliable.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Yeah, Detectives Dodie and Avis, they were pretty sure from
early on that Liz had shot herself.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
In the leg, which is a dangerous thing to do.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Oh, I know, it's.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Artery.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
You could bleed out, Yeah exactly. Liz called Todd from
the hospital to tell her that she had been shot,
and she asked him to come visit her and bring
her some things from her basement. While Todd was down
there looking for the things that she had asked for,
he found his laptop under her.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Bed, which was oh, stolen.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yeah, it had been stolen. And as I mentioned before,
Todd kept very meticulous records of all the serial numbers,
and so he was able to check and verify that
this was actually his laptop. I think when he later
kind of confronted Liz about it, she acted like she
bought it at a pawn shop and she was like, oh,
I guess my bad. Did she give it back? Whoa crazy?
(22:47):
So fortunately for Liz, the bullet passed through her thigh,
missed the bone, it missed any major arteries, and she
was released from the hospital a couple days later. While
all this was happening, detectives were into the contents of
Liz's phone. They found that she had been using an
app called Texty, which allows you to schedule messages to
(23:08):
be sent. They were able to recover all the deleted data,
and they found that she had sent thousands of texts
from dozens of email accounts purporting to be Carries. They
had so many messages that they had to build a
database to allow them to query and find relevant messages.
In all, there were more than twenty thousand emails and
text messages. The evidence was growing, but it was still
(23:33):
all circumstantial. They had no body, they had where is Carrie,
no crime scene, they had no murder weapon. They needed more,
and so they decided to try to trick Liz into
giving them more. They called her in and they said
they were working on building a case against Amy for
her shooting. They said, you know this needs to stay
in this room, but we're also wondering if maybe Amy
(23:56):
had something to do with Carrie's disappearance. I'm sure Liz was.
I'm super excited to hear.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
That, so excited, but they told.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Liz they really needed evidence. Though. Miraculously, four days later,
some evidence fell into Liz's lap. She received an email
supposedly from Amy with the subject line, I shot you.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Mean man.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Imagine the luck of the police getting that evidence. The
body of the email explained that Amy shot Liz to
keep her away from Dave. It couldn't be much more clear.
Liz passed it along to the police and they said, well,
that's that's great, but I really wish we could connect
Amy to Carrie's disappearance. They told Liz that they had
(24:43):
found some remains that they believed to be carried, but
they didn't provide any more details than that, so you're
not going to believe what happened. Just a couple of
days later happen, Liz got an email from Amy confessing
to killilling Carrie.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
I mean, come on, Liz.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
It's amazing that she got away with this for so long,
because I don't think she is actually very bright.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
It's bananas.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
So the email that she got from allegedly from Amy
confessing to killing Carrie. It was a long, rambling email,
but I'm going to have you read a couple of
parts of it, if that's okay with you.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Sure. When I met crazy Carrie, she would not stop
talking about Dave and him being her husband. She tried
to attack me, but I attacked her with a knife.
I sapped her three to four times in the stomach, area.
I then took her out and burned her. I stuffed
her body in a garbage can with crap. She was
carried out to the dumpster, probably when Dave took my
(25:49):
garbage out for me. So be glad I did not
do that to you, Liz. I will never admit to
Dave or police, no one. Maybe I'm drunk now and
just telling lies to you. Dave will always take care
of me and protect me, so I will never go
to jail. When I followed you that night I shot you.
I left my baby home because he was sleeping, made
(26:10):
sure I called Dave and texted him for my alibi,
so you can never prove it was me.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Brilliant gosh. Amy again in quotes, also admitted to setting
up fake email accounts that looked like Carrie's, and she
also confessed to setting the fire in Liz's house. Again,
It's just so convenient that Amy offered up all these
confessions to Liz right at the time that the police
were looking into Amy.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Right, She's nuts.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
There are a couple of clips on the Dateline episode
about this case where the police are talking to Liz,
and it's it really is funny because they're like boy,
if we only had some evidence from Amy saying these things,
that would be like gold to us. And then Liz
comes back a couple days later with exactly what they
were asking for. While they knew it wasn't really Amy
saying these things, detectives believed that Liz was actually giving
(27:03):
them some true details about Carrie's murder. They believed that
she was stabbed and that her body was probably burned.
Liz had a burn barrel in the backyard of the
house that she lived in at the time, but it
was long gone, along with any evidence that might have
been there. They believed that Carrie's murder probably happened in
her Ford Explorer. They had searched it twice before, but
(27:24):
they didn't do a thorough search because they didn't have
evidence that a murder had taken place in the car.
By now, the car had been sold, but they tracked
it down and the owner agreed to let them search it.
This time. They took out the front seats and they
took the seat covers off. The driver's side seat was clean,
but the passenger seat had a large red stain on
(27:44):
the foam under the seat cover. It was clear that
someone had bled profusely in the passenger seat. They did
DNA testing on the blood found in the car and
it was a definitive match to Carry's.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
While I'm sorry, I.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Think they believe she was stabbed. I mean that was
what Amy allegedly said in the email, that she stabbed
her three to four times. Oh wow. While the investigators
had sworn Liz to secrecy about building a case against Amy,
they knew that she would eventually blab about it to
Dave Krupa. She did, and Dave called the investigators up
(28:22):
in January of twenty sixteen. They couldn't come right out
and say it, but they strongly implied that they actually
believed that Liz was behind it all and that Dave
should avoid her like the plague. Dave's had must have
exploded because he had been with Liz for the past
three years, and he never once doubted that it was
Carrie who was harassing them both.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
I can't believe he was with her for that long.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
I know, it really is insane. They also implied that
Amy might be in danger and that Dave might want
to consider moving in with her for her protection. When
Dave told Amy what the police had told him about Liz.
She said what any good spouse or ex spouse would say.
What do you think? She said, I told you so? Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Oh he had that coming.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
He did totally, totally.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
I think I would wake up every day for the
rest of my life to text him he told you so.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yeah. Suggesting that Dave might want to move back in
with Amy was another ploy by the detectives, knowing that
it would enrage Liz, and it worked. She called Detective
Dody crying.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Looks like the only person that benefited was her.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
So she gets to shoot somebody, and then she gets
to kill another person, and then she gets to move
in with Dave and she gets to be free, and
you guys aren't arresting her.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
I just I can't. I'm insane, completely insane. I just
don't under like some people are so crazy and unhinged.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
I mean, yeah, they believe the.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
They believe the bs that's coming out of their mouths.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Yeah, it's just to do what she did for I mean,
to kill somebody, obviously that's insane, but to then follow
that with three years of.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
To do that, who carries mond and her son?
Speaker 2 (30:17):
I know, it's sick. I completely sick.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
I hope she is away for a long, long, long
long time.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Well we'll find out in a minute. But first of all,
the police after she called them, they were like, you know,
I know, it just takes time to build a case
and you know, but Liz had no idea that the
case that they were building was actually targeted at her.
On February twenty fifth, twenty sixteen, investigators were granted a
search warrant for Liz's apartment. She had finally moved out
(30:47):
of Todd's place when he paid for her to rent
a U Haul and he also paid for her first
month's rent and security deposit for her new place. He
just wanted to get out of And.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
What about her kids? Are kids with her?
Speaker 2 (31:00):
I think?
Speaker 1 (31:00):
So?
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. They the police waited until she was
at work so as not to give her a chance
to delete any of any digital evidence that might exist,
And then they went in and they collected a bunch
of stuff, including a camera and a camcorder that they
were able to confirm had actually belonged to Carrie. They
(31:21):
arrested Liz that afternoon, but not on murder charges. She
had an outstanding traffic citation, so as police often do,
they use that as an excuse to bring her in
and try to get her to talk. They started telling
her about all the evidence they had, but she denied
it all and soon asked for an attorney, who took
care of the traffic citation and got her released. It
(31:42):
would be another ten months before they arrested Liz for
the murder of Carrie Farvar, four years after her disappearance.
Investigators had brought the case to the DA, who was
skeptical of their ability to successfully prosecute Liz without a
body or a murder weapon. They didn't even know where
Liz had killed Carrie, which would be a challenge because
(32:03):
if they prosecuted her in Douglas County, which is where
Omaha was located, but the jury wasn't convinced that that's
where the crime took place, then they would have to
acquit her. But finally, the prosecutor became convinced that Liz
was guilty and that they had as much evidence as
they were going to get, and so they agreed to
move forward, and Liz was finally arrested for Liz's or
(32:25):
for Carrie's murder, on December twenty second, twenty sixteen, over
four long years after Carrie's disappearance. A big break came
while they were preparing the case. They asked Dave Krupa
whether there was any electronic devices that they might have missed.
Dave suddenly remembered that there was a tablet of Liz's
(32:45):
in storage that he had completely forgotten about, so he
went there and got it for them. The tablet had
an SD card in it that must have been in
Liz's phone at some point, because on it they found
a whole bunch of photos. Photo they found showed a
foot with a tattoo on it. They were able to
get a photo from Carrie's mom. You're laughing because of the.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
End with that. I'm sorry, I'm not laughing at no.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
I know it's actually a pretty funny story. But let
me finish this and then we'll talk about that. Yeah,
so they found it photo of a foot with a
tattoo on it. They were able to get a photo
from Carrie's mom that showed the tattoo was a match
for a tattoo that Carrie had on her foot, and
when they shared the photo with a forensic pathologist, she
concluded that the foot shown in the photo was in
(33:36):
a state of decay. Oh, that's because when a body
starts to decay, the skin begins to slough off and
become discolored, but the skin where the tattoo is does
not sluff off in the same way, And so the
pathologists could tell because of the difference in the skin
near the tattoo compared to the surrounding skin, that the
(33:57):
foot was in a state of decay, but she was
unable to estimate how long the person had been dead
when the photo was taken. The trial began in May
of twenty seventeen. Liz's lawyer opted for a bench trial
instead of a jury trial. That was because he knew
that all of the circumstantial evidence, that thousands of texts
and emails, all of the harassment, all the stocking, and
(34:20):
so on, would make the jury believe that Liz was
a psycho, even if that evidence didn't directly connect her
to Carrie's murder. Liz's defense was basically that all of
the evidence was just supposition and innuendo. Sure, Liz was
a bad person for intimidating and harassing innocent people, but
that didn't make her a murderer. Was there even a murder?
(34:42):
Where was the body? How did Carrie die? Where did
she die? The prosecution didn't have direct evidence that spoke
to any of those things. The state called thirty two
witnesses to make their case. Liz's attorney didn't call any
witnesses in her defense. In the end, though, it was
enough to convinced the judge. He delivered his verdict on
(35:02):
May twenty fourth, guilty of first degree murder and second
degree arson. Soon after she was convicted, Liz called her
lawyer and said, I want to take the plea deal.
First of all, no plea deal had actually been offered.
There had been some discussion of a plea deal if
Liz would lead them to carry his remains, but nothing
(35:24):
was formally offered. Second of all, the time for a
plea agreement, as I think you probably know, is before
you're convicted of murder, not after. Apparently Liz was not
well versed on the law. Liz was sentenced to life
in prison for the murder and eighteen to twenty years
for the arson, which the two sentences were set to
(35:44):
run consecutively, so even if Liz somehow managed to get
the life sentence reversed on appeal, she would still have
the eighteen to twenty years for Arson. That sounds about right,
I'd say, so, all right, we're almost down. I just
have a few notes of what's happened since Liz got convicted.
Liz did file an appeal, saying that her counsel had
(36:07):
failed her by advising her to waive a jury trial,
among other things. It was denied. She still maintains her innocence.
Carrie's son, Maxwell Farvar, finished high school and followed in
his mom's footsteps by studying software engineering and data science
at Iowa State University. He's now working as a software
(36:27):
engineer at a financial services firm in Minnesota. Nancy and
Mark Rainey, Carrie's mom and stepdad, have remained close with
the detectives who finally broke the case open. Nancy says
that they are like sons to her. Detectives Dodie and Avis,
along with Deputy Anthony Cava, who I didn't mention, but
(36:48):
he worked for the Pottawatamee County It Department and he
did a ton of work on his own time to
sift through all the digital evidence. The three of them
established a scholarship fund in Carrie's name, the Carrie Farvar
Memorial scholarship supports Iowa Western Community College students who are
pursuing careers in information technology.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Very nice.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Dave and Amy continue to cooperate in raising their kids together,
although they have no plans to get back together. Dave
feels tremendous guilt over what happened to Carrie, although Nancy
doesn't blame him. She says, quote, he was pretty much
in the wrong place at the wrong time, like Carrie was,
and she also says that Carrie wouldn't want his feelings
of guilt to hold him back in life. For his part,
(37:32):
Dave committed that he would cooperate with any TV show
that wanted to cover Carrie's murder as long as Nancy
had agreed to participate as well, to keep her memory alive.
Carrie's remains have never been found wherever she is. I
hope you rest in peace, Carrie. That's devastating, it's yeah,
it's really incredibly sad.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Yeah, well, rest in peace, Carrie. And I hope her
son is doing well. And I hope that Liz's kids
are okay, you know her parents first, right, Yeah, And
I just can't help but always worry about the kids
in these stories. Yeah, sure, I mean, there's definitely some
silly things in the story that made us laugh, but
it's really tragic that Carrie seemed like a really lovely person.
(38:14):
And I mean, Dave, I'm sorry he made some really
bad decisions. I hope he's doing well too.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Yeah, I hope so too. Yeah. I agree with you
about Liz's kids. I don't. I don't know anything about
them or where they're at now, or what happened to
them or anything like that. But yeah, I can only
imagine like.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
They're it's hard to grow up with, you know, an
unreliable and we talk a lot about bad people, but
I think Liz bad person, but mentally ill. Like those
her responses just weren't normal, right. It doesn't excuse anything
that she did, but I think she's obviously ill. But
she was.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Obviously ill, so I should give a mention of the
main source for this case was a book called A
Tangled Web, which is by Leslie Rule. The name may
sound fromamiliar because Anne Rule, who was like the queen
of true crime. Leslie is her daughter and this is
the first book and I think, to date the only
book that.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
She's really I thought she's written more.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
It's the only one that is listed on her website.
Maybe yeah, So hopefully she'll write more because it was
really well done, well researched, well written, and everything.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
Well, you did a fabulous job retelling the story. So
good job to you.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
I have not read an Anne Rule book. I started
one once and then I think I had to put
it aside. But I really do want to read one
of her books because I know she is the queen
of true crime.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Ted Bundy book is supposed.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
To be right. I think she knew I didn't read that.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
But I think she knew him. I knew him.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Yeah. So I want to go back to something that
you you laughed at earlier.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
It was inappropriate laughter.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
I'm sorry, yeah it was, but it was the reason
for your laughter was it was actually really funny yesterday,
So you laughed when I was talking about they found
the photo of the foot tattoo, and you and I
and our daughter were texting each other, and at the
same time, I was looking for photos for this case
to download, and I found a photo of the foot
tattoo that will post and I downloaded it and I
(40:06):
went to name the file, but I accidentally typed in
our text exchange and what did I think? I just
typed foot tattoo. I think we were talking about dinner
or something, and I just messaged.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Tattoo and I was like, you have some explaining to do, sir,
Like what is going on? Why are you googling foot tattoos?
Which is highly disturbing to.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
It made me laugh so hard after I did that,
I just sent a message.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
To or did you just develop this case? Just the
story is all just because you had to cover your
foot tattoo googling? Shady shady. Thank you so much for
listening to this episode of Love Mary Kel.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Please rate, review, follow and subscribe, Find us on social media,
or send us an email at Lovemarykill at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Please consider supporting us on Patreon dot com slash Lovemrykill
For five dollars a month. You get early ad free access,
and a monthly bonus episode.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
Join us next Monday for another episode of Love Mary
Kill
Hi, I'm Tina and I'm Rich. Welcome to love Mary Kell.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Just the facts. Let's talk about the case of Carrie Farvar,
Liz Gollier and Dave Krupa. That's not I think we should.
(00:26):
I think people are going to want to know what happened.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
To get so nervous? Would you say this recap? Okay,
I'm going to try to do it quick because sometimes
they go along too long, and I'm going to need
your help because I was listening and I didn't take
a ton of notes. So our main character is Liz
what's her last name? Gollier, Liz Gollier. Liz Gollier had
a She had a tough time growing up. Her mom
(00:51):
died when she was young, and she and her brother
were put in foster care. I believe she was eventually
adopted into a nicer family. She has some issues, like
she's just not right. She has a couple of kids.
Her kids are like ten and eleven. At the time
of the story. She wasn't with the father of her
children very long, right, is that true?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (01:15):
And she's obsessed with this fellow named Dave Krupa, who
is like a mechanic and obsessed might be putting it lightly,
so poor Dave. Dave was with Amy. They had a
long term relationship. They had a couple of kids. They
were together for twelve years and they broke up. Dave
was like, I am just going to date. I'm going
to have a good time, and I'm not going to
(01:35):
get serious with anyone. And then he met Liz, and
he was trying to keep it kind of mellow, but
Liz is very intense and she would send him like
hundreds of text messages and emails and she wanted it
to be become more serious. And then he would try
to break up and then she'd say, oh, I left
my pants at your house, so I need to come
and get my pants. And then they would have sex.
(01:57):
And because Dave is weak, and then Dave was like,
I've had enough, and then he started I'm already going
on too long. He met Carrie. Carrie seemed like a
really nice, pretty young a lovely young woman. Actually all
these people are in their thirties. They're all thirty somethings.
And they had been dating for a couple of weeks.
Carrie was hanging out at Dave's house and she disappeared. Yeah,
(02:21):
but then she and then she no one ever talked
to her again. And then but she's sending all these
horrible messages to Dave. She has a teenage thun named
Max who she's been on for like six weeks at
this point, and her mom is really concerned. And I
actually know she at the point where she was gone
for a year. Yeah, and Max is with Carrie's mom, yep.
(02:44):
And you're gonna what else I mean?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
There was It wasn't just like harassing text messages. There
was also things going on like bricks being thrown through
Dave's window, cars, both Dave's and Liz's cars being keyed,
and vandalism and yeah, just all kinds of horrible stuff.
And it was mostly targeted at Dave and Liz. And
it appeared that it was coming from Carrie. That's what
(03:07):
Dave just assumed that it was from Carrie. But we
know it well.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
And Carrie was posting on her Facebook and she had
posted a picture of an engagement ring, right, Yeah, that
was weird.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, it was like Carrie. It was almost like she
was living this imaginary life where she and Dave are together,
which wasn't the case.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
So yeah, all right, tell us more all right.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
So we are now into twenty fourteen. So Carrie disappeared
in November of twenty twelve, so we're now over a
year has passed, and the harassment has been going on.
All these emails, all this stuff has been going on
for over a year now. In January of twenty fourteen,
Dave invited Heather, an old friend of his and sometimes girlfriend,
(03:49):
to visit from Sioux Falls, South Dakota, where Dave was from.
He had gone to high school there. Heather came to visit.
They ended up in Dave's bedroom and then they heard
a rattling at his patio door, like someone was trying
to open it. Heather was freaked out, but Dave was like, Ah,
don't worry, it's just my stalker. This is just the
way it is, Oh okay. And then suddenly there was
(04:11):
a sound of shattering glass and they found a brick
on the bathroom floor. Heather was freaking out by this point,
but again Dave was surprisingly calm. He's just like, this
is just how my life is.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Well, and you had said we didn't talk about this,
but Dave had kind of developed some bad habits. He
was drinking too much, he'd gained a bunch of weight,
and it was.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Just under a lot of stress. I mean he's getting
like sixty emails and messages a day from this stalker.
So he did end up calling the police. They came out,
took a report, but there wasn't a whole lot else
that they could do. Dave then told Heather about the
whole situation, how he and this other woman, Liz were
being constantly harassed by this woman, Carrie, that he had
(04:51):
only dated for two weeks over a year ago. Heather,
who was much more perceptive than Dave, said, maybe this
is Liz who threw the through the window after all.
If this Carrie is so obsessed with you, why hasn't
she shown herself to you in over a year. And
Dave was like, no, it couldn't be Liz. We've both
received messages many times when we're together, and Liz is
(05:14):
always terrified when it happens. Later in twenty fourteen, Dave
took Liz with him on a trip to Sue Falls,
a two and a half hour drive to see some
of his old friends and family. While there, they visited
one of Dave's oldest and best friends, a woman named
tay Andy Braver or Tay. Tay was married with two kids,
(05:35):
and she had always been purely platonic friends with Dave.
She had known him since he was in diapers, and
she thought of him as a little brother. At the
end of their visit, Tay, being polite, said to Liz, oh,
you should come back and visit sometime. Just by that
little nicety, she had no idea what she was getting
herself into, because a few weeks later, she gets a
(05:56):
call from Liz asking what are you doing this weekend?
Hay said, not much, just hanging out, and before she
knew it, Liz was at her doorstep with a suitcase,
ready to stay the weekend. Liz seemed surprised that there
was a house full of people. Tay's husband and kids
were there, and her father in law was also staying
with them. Liz seemed to think that it would be
(06:18):
just her and Tay hanging out, having a girl's weekend together.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Tay was very polite, probably too polite, inviting Liz into
her home to stay for the weekend when she really
barely knew her. At one point, Heather dropped by, so
Heather was the one that had come to see Dave
that he had known since high school. She was also
friends with Tay, and she was also the one that
suggested to Dave that maybe Liz was the one who
broke the window. But anyway, she showed up at Tay's house.
(06:45):
Tay introduces her to Liz and Liz says, oh, Heather, Oh,
you're the one who came to see Dave. He should
have brought you to my place when crazy Carrie threw
the brick through the window. Heather was not buying into
Liz's bullshit even a little bit. She said, I don't
even know you, Why would I stay at your house.
Liz then asked what were you doing at Dave's and
(07:06):
Heather said, you know, Dave and I have been friends
with benefits for decades. I'll always be here. I was
here before you, and I'll be here after you. You're
just the Wednesday girl, referring to Dave's commitment to see
Liz every Wednesday couch. And then Heather walked out, leaving
Liz fuming. The weekend got even weirder, though Liz suggested
today that they should go visit Dave's parents, who lived nearby.
(07:30):
Tay called Dave's mom to see if they could come by,
which was surprising to Dave's mom because she didn't really
know Tay that well and she didn't know Liz at all.
But apparently everyone in Sioux Falls, except maybe Heather, is
polite to a fault, so she said, sure, come on over.
After they got there, Liz went on and on about
the stalker situation, worrying Dave's parents. They had already actually
(07:54):
bought Dave a gun for protection, but Liz was like,
he probably needs some more guns just to be safe.
After they left Dave's parents home, Liz suggested they go
out to dinner, so Tay and her husband took her
to a Chinese place. After ordering, Liz got up to
use the restroom and she didn't come back for a
long time. Finally Tay went to check on her, and
(08:15):
she found her in the restroom on the phone with
Dave having a heated argument, probably because Dave had no
idea that Liz had gone to see his friend, can
you imagine. Finally Liz came back to the table and
the dinner continued awkwardly, with Liz not saying a whole lot,
and of course, when the bill came there was no
offer from Liz to chip in or pay for the
(08:36):
tip or anything. But wait, it gets weirder still. As
bedtime approached, it was awkward because there wasn't a spare
bed at Tay's house because their father in law. Her
father in law was staying with them. Tay's husband was
on a different schedule because he had been working third
shift and he was planning to stay up and play
video games, so Tay said that Liz was welcome to
(08:57):
sleep with her in their queen sized bed. At one
point during the night, Tay rolled over to find Liz
with her eyes wide open, just staring at her.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
I mean that doesn't surprise me at all.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Liz woke up at five am and she said I
want to go home now, which was fine by Tay,
who hadn't gotten any sleep at all. She thought that
Liz was very odd but harmless. Liz left, but soon
after she started calling and texting Tay regularly like they
were BFFs. She invited Tay to come stay with her,
but Tay always found an excuse. Coincidentally, Tay also started
(09:34):
getting fifty to one hundred texts and emails from Carrie
accusing her of being one of Dave's whores.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Where is Liz living at this point? Is she still
living with Todd?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yeah? Yeah, she's living with Todd. Overall, twenty fourteen was
very similar to twenty thirteen. The onslaught of messages continued,
targeted at Dave, Liz, Dave's ex amy, and any woman
that Dave dated. Nancy would occasionally get messages allegedly from
Carrie that seemed designed to get her hopes up, only
(10:05):
to be dashed again. There was no progress in the
police investigation and no closure for Carrie's family. So now
it's twenty fifteen, more than two years have passed since
Carrie's disappearance. The harassment and the stalking continued, but finally
there was progress in the investigation.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Why didn't Dave change his phone number?
Speaker 2 (10:26):
He did multiple times? Oh okay, yeah, and miraculously, miraculously,
this crazy Carrie somehow found his new number every time.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
So in the.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Investigation, these two detectives from the Pottawatamee County Police Department
in Iowa, Jim Dody and Ryan Avis, they had heard
some water cooler talk about the Carrie Farvar missing persons
and the harassment case, and they were intrigued, and so
they asked if they could be assigned to the case.
The deputy who had been in charge of the investigation
(10:59):
was more than happy to get this one off his desk,
and so he turned over the files. Avis and Dody
started with the very basic fact that there were two possibilities.
Either Carrie was alive and she was responsible for all
the harassment, or she was dead and therefore someone else
was doing the harassing. So they split the investigation in two.
(11:21):
Avis investigated on the assumption that Carrie was alive and
Dody approached it assuming that Carrie was dead. Avis quickly
came to the conclusion that it was highly unlikely that
Carrie was still alive. No one had seen her for
two and a half years, her bank account and her
credit cards hadn't been touched, her car was abandoned, and
(11:43):
if that was the case, if she wasn't alive, then
who would have the motive to not only kill Carrie
but also make it appear that she was still alive
and to do this for going on three years. They
took another close look at Dave Krupa, but it just
didn't fit. David been super cooperative and they just didn't
(12:03):
think that he had anything to do with this. However,
they did notice that Liz's name seemed to come up
a lot when they look back at the text that
Carrie had sent to her supervisor resigning and saying that
she was moving to Kansas for a new job. This
was sent three days after Carrie disappeared. They found it
interesting that the text actually mentioned Liz or Shanna as
(12:24):
her real name is. The text said I won't be
coming back. I'm taking a job in Kansas. Sorry for
the short notice. I am sending someone out to you
to fill the position. Her name is Shanna Gallier. What so, Carrie,
who is a software developer, she resigns and recommends a
woman who has no background at all in programming. Yeah,
(12:47):
it was ludicrous. Liz actually did fill out an application
at West Corporation around that time, and she listed Carrie
Farvar as a reference, but she obviously didn't have any
qualifications for the job and so she wasn't even considered
for it. So you may not remember this, but detectives
downloaded the data from both Liz and Dave's phones way
(13:08):
back in early twenty thirteen when all the harassment started,
so that they could sift through all of the threatening
emails that they were both getting from Carrie. So now
detectives Avis and Dody started looking more closely at Liz.
They revisited the data that they had downloaded from her phone.
They saw the dynamics of Dave and Liz's relationship, and
(13:29):
they noticed that Liz seemed very obsessive, very possessive, jealous.
They also went back to the photo of the check
that Carrie had supposedly sent to her mom saying that
she had sold her furniture to Liz. According to Liz,
Carrie had stolen her checkbook, but no one had actually
bothered to check the signature on the check to see
(13:50):
if it matched Lizz. Sure enough, it did. Digging deeper,
they saw that Liz had made six calls to Carrie
Farverar's home phone about one week before Carrie's disappearance, and
that she had entered Star sixty seven before each of
these calls to block caller ID. They also found a
photo on Liz's phone of Carrie's Ford Explorer. The photo
(14:13):
was taken on Christmas Eve of twenty twelve, when her
car was officially missing, two weeks before it mysteriously appeared
in the parking lot of Dave's apartment. All right, let's
take a quick break. We'll be right back. So they
were now starting to narrow in on Liz, but everything
(14:36):
they had was very circumstantial. The detectives remembered that there
had been an unidentified fingerprint found on a mint container
in Carrie's car. They compared them to Liz's prince. I'm
not sure how they had Liz's prince, but they were
able to compare them, and sure enough, it was a match. Again,
a great piece of evidence, but very circumstantial. After all,
(14:58):
Dave had probably been in Carrie's car, maybe he put
the mint container there and Liz had touched it sometime before.
The detectives continued gathering evidence through the rest of twenty fifteen.
In the meantime, Todd got fed up with Liz and
asked her to move out of his house. She refused,
saying she couldn't afford a place on her own. Dave
(15:20):
also finally had enough of Liz. They were supposed to
spend Thanksgiving me I know, right. They were supposed to
spend Thanksgiving Day of twenty fifteen together, but Dave got
an urgent call from Amy that morning. So Amy actually
had a new baby who was a year and a
half old. I'm not sure who the baby's father was,
but I don't think he was in the picture. Her
(15:41):
baby was sick and had spiked a fever of one
hundred and three and was having trouble breathing. There had
been a blizzard, and Amy was afraid of driving to
the hospital, so she called Dave to see if he
would drive them. Even though this wasn't Dave's baby, he
was happy to help. Liz was just beside herself that
Dave would cancel their plans to go help his ex,
(16:01):
and he was disgusted by how selfish she was and
told her that it was over, this time for good.
Soon after that, Dave woke to find his phone blowing up.
Every woman in his phone's contact list was mad at him.
During the night, they had all received rude, crude texts
from Dave, and they were all texting him to demand
(16:22):
an explanation. Now, Dave was a notoriously heavy sleeper, and
he realized that whoever sent the texts he still assumed
it was Carrie, must have snuck into his bedroom picked
up his phone from his bedside table and sent all
those texts from his apartment while he was sleeping. Oh
I know. Shortly after that, he also noticed that his
(16:43):
gun was missing from the closet where he kept it.
By December, detectives Dodie and Ryan were sure that Liz
was responsible for Carrie's disappearance and all of the harassment
that came after it, but they still had no real
evidence that would hold up at trial. They wanted to
talked to Liz, but they had to be really careful.
They didn't want to tip her off that they were
(17:04):
onto her. So imagine their surprise when they saw Liz
walking down the hallway at the Sheriff's office on December
fourth of twenty fifteen. They had studied her for months,
but they had never seen her in person. They later
said that it was like spotting a celebrity. It turned
out that Liz had come in to file a harassment
report against Amy Flora Dave's X after Are You Dubious?
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
After Detective Avis found out why Liz was there, he
thought fast and he ran out to the parking lot
before she left, and he told her that he had
been assigned to her case, and he asked if he
could come back to her house and take the report.
She told him that Amy was the ex of Dave Krupa,
a guy she had been seeing, and that Amy was
stalking her on Facebook, and that she was worried because
(17:53):
Dave's gun had been stolen and she suspected it was Amy.
Officer Avis played dumb like he didn't know anything about
Dave Krupa or anything else. I heard a little clip
of this on one of the shows I watched. It
was kind of funny because he's like, Dave Cooper, how's
that spelled? And she's like, no, it's Krupa. He was
just completely like playing dumb. He asked if he could
(18:13):
get a download of her phone's contents so that he
could look over all the texts that she had claimed
to have come from Amy, and Liz agreed. Avis gave
Liz his phone number and he said, call me anytime
if anything else happens. So when you turn in your
phone to the police to have them download your data,
there are two approaches they can take. The first, which
(18:34):
is what they did the first time they had Liz's
phone nearly three years earlier, is just a simple download
of all the files, the texts, the emails, and so on.
The more thorough download, though, which they did this time,
is basically making a full physical duplication of everything in
the phone's storage and memory. That would allow them to
(18:54):
not only look at Liz's files, her photos, her emails,
and texts, but it would also allowed them to recover
data that had been deleted.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
I just think it's so funny that Liz called the
police saying she's stocking at Facebook. He was like, Oh, no,
you're being stocked on Facebook. I know, it's it's just silly.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
It is silly, but I think, you know, the main
thing was that Dave's gun was stolen, so she was worried,
like but she was obviously trying to build up this
whole thing like Amy was out toget her. Right. So
the next evening after that conversation with the police, on
December fifth, of twenty fifteen, Liz told Todd that she
was going to Walmart. Todd was surprised because she never
(19:38):
told him where she was going, and besides, he really
didn't care where she went. He just wanted her out.
But instead of going to Walmart, Liz went to Big
Lake Park in Council Bluffs, which is a one hundred
and ninety one acre park known for its lakes, and
it's also known as being the site of an alleged
UFO crash in nineteen seventy seven. Liz wasn't there to
(19:59):
search for UFOs, though she later said that she went
there to do some thinking, but instead of a peaceful,
contemplative evening, Liz called nine one one at six forty
one pm saying, I've been shot in the leg. The
person who shot her Amy Flora. Liz said, I know.
Liz said that Amy had come up to her and said,
(20:20):
so you like fucking Dave, and then she shot her
and ran away. Paramedics arrived to find Liz had been
shot through the thigh and her pant leg was soaked
with blood. They took her to the hospital while police
searched the park. They brought in a helicopter with a
searchlight and an infrared heat detector, but all they found
were a couple of homeless people camped out in the park. Meanwhile,
(20:43):
Amy was sitting on her couch playing games on her
iPad when a pounding came at her door. Open up police.
She opened the door to three officers, guns drawn and
pointed at her. She was terrified and she burst into tears.
They questioned her, and they believed her story that she
had and sitting on her couch playing games on the
iPad for the last hour or so while her baby
(21:04):
was sleeping. They checked her car. They found that the
engine was cold, confirming that she hadn't driven anywhere in
it recently. To be certain, though, they asked her to
come in and take a lie detector test, which she
readily agreed to. The problem was though Amy failed the
polygraph test, this isn't actually too surprising, as the false
positive rate, that is, the percentage of time when an
(21:26):
honest person is incorrectly found to be lying, is somewhere
around twenty percent.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Detective I think it would be higher.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
I mean twenty percent. That's quite a bit, right. It
kind of makes you wonder how I know polygraph tests
aren't admissible in court, and I think that's the reason why.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Keep saying this. But we need we need to break
that down into an episode on it, because it is
really interesting to me that it's used so often yet
so unreliable.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Yeah, Detectives Dodie and Avis, they were pretty sure from
early on that Liz had shot herself.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
In the leg, which is a dangerous thing to do.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Oh, I know, it's.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Artery.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
You could bleed out, Yeah exactly. Liz called Todd from
the hospital to tell her that she had been shot,
and she asked him to come visit her and bring
her some things from her basement. While Todd was down
there looking for the things that she had asked for,
he found his laptop under her.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Bed, which was oh, stolen.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yeah, it had been stolen. And as I mentioned before,
Todd kept very meticulous records of all the serial numbers,
and so he was able to check and verify that
this was actually his laptop. I think when he later
kind of confronted Liz about it, she acted like she
bought it at a pawn shop and she was like, oh,
I guess my bad. Did she give it back? Whoa crazy?
(22:47):
So fortunately for Liz, the bullet passed through her thigh,
missed the bone, it missed any major arteries, and she
was released from the hospital a couple days later. While
all this was happening, detectives were into the contents of
Liz's phone. They found that she had been using an
app called Texty, which allows you to schedule messages to
(23:08):
be sent. They were able to recover all the deleted data,
and they found that she had sent thousands of texts
from dozens of email accounts purporting to be Carries. They
had so many messages that they had to build a
database to allow them to query and find relevant messages.
In all, there were more than twenty thousand emails and
text messages. The evidence was growing, but it was still
(23:33):
all circumstantial. They had no body, they had where is Carrie,
no crime scene, they had no murder weapon. They needed more,
and so they decided to try to trick Liz into
giving them more. They called her in and they said
they were working on building a case against Amy for
her shooting. They said, you know this needs to stay
in this room, but we're also wondering if maybe Amy
(23:56):
had something to do with Carrie's disappearance. I'm sure Liz was.
I'm super excited to hear.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
That, so excited, but they told.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Liz they really needed evidence. Though. Miraculously, four days later,
some evidence fell into Liz's lap. She received an email
supposedly from Amy with the subject line, I shot you.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Mean man.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Imagine the luck of the police getting that evidence. The
body of the email explained that Amy shot Liz to
keep her away from Dave. It couldn't be much more clear.
Liz passed it along to the police and they said, well,
that's that's great, but I really wish we could connect
Amy to Carrie's disappearance. They told Liz that they had
(24:43):
found some remains that they believed to be carried, but
they didn't provide any more details than that, so you're
not going to believe what happened. Just a couple of
days later happen, Liz got an email from Amy confessing
to killilling Carrie.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
I mean, come on, Liz.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
It's amazing that she got away with this for so long,
because I don't think she is actually very bright.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
It's bananas.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
So the email that she got from allegedly from Amy
confessing to killing Carrie. It was a long, rambling email,
but I'm going to have you read a couple of
parts of it, if that's okay with you.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Sure. When I met crazy Carrie, she would not stop
talking about Dave and him being her husband. She tried
to attack me, but I attacked her with a knife.
I sapped her three to four times in the stomach, area.
I then took her out and burned her. I stuffed
her body in a garbage can with crap. She was
carried out to the dumpster, probably when Dave took my
(25:49):
garbage out for me. So be glad I did not
do that to you, Liz. I will never admit to
Dave or police, no one. Maybe I'm drunk now and
just telling lies to you. Dave will always take care
of me and protect me, so I will never go
to jail. When I followed you that night I shot you.
I left my baby home because he was sleeping, made
(26:10):
sure I called Dave and texted him for my alibi,
so you can never prove it was me.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Brilliant gosh. Amy again in quotes, also admitted to setting
up fake email accounts that looked like Carrie's, and she
also confessed to setting the fire in Liz's house. Again,
It's just so convenient that Amy offered up all these
confessions to Liz right at the time that the police
were looking into Amy.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Right, She's nuts.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
There are a couple of clips on the Dateline episode
about this case where the police are talking to Liz,
and it's it really is funny because they're like boy,
if we only had some evidence from Amy saying these things,
that would be like gold to us. And then Liz
comes back a couple days later with exactly what they
were asking for. While they knew it wasn't really Amy
saying these things, detectives believed that Liz was actually giving
(27:03):
them some true details about Carrie's murder. They believed that
she was stabbed and that her body was probably burned.
Liz had a burn barrel in the backyard of the
house that she lived in at the time, but it
was long gone, along with any evidence that might have
been there. They believed that Carrie's murder probably happened in
her Ford Explorer. They had searched it twice before, but
(27:24):
they didn't do a thorough search because they didn't have
evidence that a murder had taken place in the car.
By now, the car had been sold, but they tracked
it down and the owner agreed to let them search it.
This time. They took out the front seats and they
took the seat covers off. The driver's side seat was clean,
but the passenger seat had a large red stain on
(27:44):
the foam under the seat cover. It was clear that
someone had bled profusely in the passenger seat. They did
DNA testing on the blood found in the car and
it was a definitive match to Carry's.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
While I'm sorry, I.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Think they believe she was stabbed. I mean that was
what Amy allegedly said in the email, that she stabbed
her three to four times. Oh wow. While the investigators
had sworn Liz to secrecy about building a case against Amy,
they knew that she would eventually blab about it to
Dave Krupa. She did, and Dave called the investigators up
(28:22):
in January of twenty sixteen. They couldn't come right out
and say it, but they strongly implied that they actually
believed that Liz was behind it all and that Dave
should avoid her like the plague. Dave's had must have
exploded because he had been with Liz for the past
three years, and he never once doubted that it was
Carrie who was harassing them both.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
I can't believe he was with her for that long.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
I know, it really is insane. They also implied that
Amy might be in danger and that Dave might want
to consider moving in with her for her protection. When
Dave told Amy what the police had told him about Liz.
She said what any good spouse or ex spouse would say.
What do you think? She said, I told you so? Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Oh he had that coming.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
He did totally, totally.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
I think I would wake up every day for the
rest of my life to text him he told you so.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yeah. Suggesting that Dave might want to move back in
with Amy was another ploy by the detectives, knowing that
it would enrage Liz, and it worked. She called Detective
Dody crying.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Looks like the only person that benefited was her.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
So she gets to shoot somebody, and then she gets
to kill another person, and then she gets to move
in with Dave and she gets to be free, and
you guys aren't arresting her.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
I just I can't. I'm insane, completely insane. I just
don't under like some people are so crazy and unhinged.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
I mean, yeah, they believe the.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
They believe the bs that's coming out of their mouths.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Yeah, it's just to do what she did for I mean,
to kill somebody, obviously that's insane, but to then follow
that with three years of.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
To do that, who carries mond and her son?
Speaker 2 (30:17):
I know, it's sick. I completely sick.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
I hope she is away for a long, long, long
long time.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Well we'll find out in a minute. But first of all,
the police after she called them, they were like, you know,
I know, it just takes time to build a case
and you know, but Liz had no idea that the
case that they were building was actually targeted at her.
On February twenty fifth, twenty sixteen, investigators were granted a
search warrant for Liz's apartment. She had finally moved out
(30:47):
of Todd's place when he paid for her to rent
a U Haul and he also paid for her first
month's rent and security deposit for her new place. He
just wanted to get out of And.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
What about her kids? Are kids with her?
Speaker 2 (31:00):
I think?
Speaker 1 (31:00):
So?
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. They the police waited until she was
at work so as not to give her a chance
to delete any of any digital evidence that might exist,
And then they went in and they collected a bunch
of stuff, including a camera and a camcorder that they
were able to confirm had actually belonged to Carrie. They
(31:21):
arrested Liz that afternoon, but not on murder charges. She
had an outstanding traffic citation, so as police often do,
they use that as an excuse to bring her in
and try to get her to talk. They started telling
her about all the evidence they had, but she denied
it all and soon asked for an attorney, who took
care of the traffic citation and got her released. It
(31:42):
would be another ten months before they arrested Liz for
the murder of Carrie Farvar, four years after her disappearance.
Investigators had brought the case to the DA, who was
skeptical of their ability to successfully prosecute Liz without a
body or a murder weapon. They didn't even know where
Liz had killed Carrie, which would be a challenge because
(32:03):
if they prosecuted her in Douglas County, which is where
Omaha was located, but the jury wasn't convinced that that's
where the crime took place, then they would have to
acquit her. But finally, the prosecutor became convinced that Liz
was guilty and that they had as much evidence as
they were going to get, and so they agreed to
move forward, and Liz was finally arrested for Liz's or
(32:25):
for Carrie's murder, on December twenty second, twenty sixteen, over
four long years after Carrie's disappearance. A big break came
while they were preparing the case. They asked Dave Krupa
whether there was any electronic devices that they might have missed.
Dave suddenly remembered that there was a tablet of Liz's
(32:45):
in storage that he had completely forgotten about, so he
went there and got it for them. The tablet had
an SD card in it that must have been in
Liz's phone at some point, because on it they found
a whole bunch of photos. Photo they found showed a
foot with a tattoo on it. They were able to
get a photo from Carrie's mom. You're laughing because of the.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
End with that. I'm sorry, I'm not laughing at no.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
I know it's actually a pretty funny story. But let
me finish this and then we'll talk about that. Yeah,
so they found it photo of a foot with a
tattoo on it. They were able to get a photo
from Carrie's mom that showed the tattoo was a match
for a tattoo that Carrie had on her foot, and
when they shared the photo with a forensic pathologist, she
concluded that the foot shown in the photo was in
(33:36):
a state of decay. Oh, that's because when a body
starts to decay, the skin begins to slough off and
become discolored, but the skin where the tattoo is does
not sluff off in the same way, And so the
pathologists could tell because of the difference in the skin
near the tattoo compared to the surrounding skin, that the
(33:57):
foot was in a state of decay, but she was
unable to estimate how long the person had been dead
when the photo was taken. The trial began in May
of twenty seventeen. Liz's lawyer opted for a bench trial
instead of a jury trial. That was because he knew
that all of the circumstantial evidence, that thousands of texts
and emails, all of the harassment, all the stocking, and
(34:20):
so on, would make the jury believe that Liz was
a psycho, even if that evidence didn't directly connect her
to Carrie's murder. Liz's defense was basically that all of
the evidence was just supposition and innuendo. Sure, Liz was
a bad person for intimidating and harassing innocent people, but
that didn't make her a murderer. Was there even a murder?
(34:42):
Where was the body? How did Carrie die? Where did
she die? The prosecution didn't have direct evidence that spoke
to any of those things. The state called thirty two
witnesses to make their case. Liz's attorney didn't call any
witnesses in her defense. In the end, though, it was
enough to convinced the judge. He delivered his verdict on
(35:02):
May twenty fourth, guilty of first degree murder and second
degree arson. Soon after she was convicted, Liz called her
lawyer and said, I want to take the plea deal.
First of all, no plea deal had actually been offered.
There had been some discussion of a plea deal if
Liz would lead them to carry his remains, but nothing
(35:24):
was formally offered. Second of all, the time for a
plea agreement, as I think you probably know, is before
you're convicted of murder, not after. Apparently Liz was not
well versed on the law. Liz was sentenced to life
in prison for the murder and eighteen to twenty years
for the arson, which the two sentences were set to
(35:44):
run consecutively, so even if Liz somehow managed to get
the life sentence reversed on appeal, she would still have
the eighteen to twenty years for Arson. That sounds about right,
I'd say, so, all right, we're almost down. I just
have a few notes of what's happened since Liz got convicted.
Liz did file an appeal, saying that her counsel had
(36:07):
failed her by advising her to waive a jury trial,
among other things. It was denied. She still maintains her innocence.
Carrie's son, Maxwell Farvar, finished high school and followed in
his mom's footsteps by studying software engineering and data science
at Iowa State University. He's now working as a software
(36:27):
engineer at a financial services firm in Minnesota. Nancy and
Mark Rainey, Carrie's mom and stepdad, have remained close with
the detectives who finally broke the case open. Nancy says
that they are like sons to her. Detectives Dodie and Avis,
along with Deputy Anthony Cava, who I didn't mention, but
(36:48):
he worked for the Pottawatamee County It Department and he
did a ton of work on his own time to
sift through all the digital evidence. The three of them
established a scholarship fund in Carrie's name, the Carrie Farvar
Memorial scholarship supports Iowa Western Community College students who are
pursuing careers in information technology.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Very nice.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Dave and Amy continue to cooperate in raising their kids together,
although they have no plans to get back together. Dave
feels tremendous guilt over what happened to Carrie, although Nancy
doesn't blame him. She says, quote, he was pretty much
in the wrong place at the wrong time, like Carrie was,
and she also says that Carrie wouldn't want his feelings
of guilt to hold him back in life. For his part,
(37:32):
Dave committed that he would cooperate with any TV show
that wanted to cover Carrie's murder as long as Nancy
had agreed to participate as well, to keep her memory alive.
Carrie's remains have never been found wherever she is. I
hope you rest in peace, Carrie. That's devastating, it's yeah,
it's really incredibly sad.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Yeah, well, rest in peace, Carrie. And I hope her
son is doing well. And I hope that Liz's kids
are okay, you know her parents first, right, Yeah, And
I just can't help but always worry about the kids
in these stories. Yeah, sure, I mean, there's definitely some
silly things in the story that made us laugh, but
it's really tragic that Carrie seemed like a really lovely person.
(38:14):
And I mean, Dave, I'm sorry he made some really
bad decisions. I hope he's doing well too.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Yeah, I hope so too. Yeah. I agree with you
about Liz's kids. I don't. I don't know anything about
them or where they're at now, or what happened to
them or anything like that. But yeah, I can only
imagine like.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
They're it's hard to grow up with, you know, an
unreliable and we talk a lot about bad people, but
I think Liz bad person, but mentally ill. Like those
her responses just weren't normal, right. It doesn't excuse anything
that she did, but I think she's obviously ill. But
she was.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Obviously ill, so I should give a mention of the
main source for this case was a book called A
Tangled Web, which is by Leslie Rule. The name may
sound fromamiliar because Anne Rule, who was like the queen
of true crime. Leslie is her daughter and this is
the first book and I think, to date the only
book that.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
She's really I thought she's written more.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
It's the only one that is listed on her website.
Maybe yeah, So hopefully she'll write more because it was
really well done, well researched, well written, and everything.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
Well, you did a fabulous job retelling the story. So
good job to you.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
I have not read an Anne Rule book. I started
one once and then I think I had to put
it aside. But I really do want to read one
of her books because I know she is the queen
of true crime.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Ted Bundy book is supposed.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
To be right. I think she knew I didn't read that.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
But I think she knew him. I knew him.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Yeah. So I want to go back to something that
you you laughed at earlier.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
It was inappropriate laughter.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
I'm sorry, yeah it was, but it was the reason
for your laughter was it was actually really funny yesterday,
So you laughed when I was talking about they found
the photo of the foot tattoo, and you and I
and our daughter were texting each other, and at the
same time, I was looking for photos for this case
to download, and I found a photo of the foot
tattoo that will post and I downloaded it and I
(40:06):
went to name the file, but I accidentally typed in
our text exchange and what did I think? I just
typed foot tattoo. I think we were talking about dinner
or something, and I just messaged.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Tattoo and I was like, you have some explaining to do, sir,
Like what is going on? Why are you googling foot tattoos?
Which is highly disturbing to.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
It made me laugh so hard after I did that,
I just sent a message.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
To or did you just develop this case? Just the
story is all just because you had to cover your
foot tattoo googling? Shady shady. Thank you so much for
listening to this episode of Love Mary Kel.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Please rate, review, follow and subscribe, Find us on social media,
or send us an email at Lovemarykill at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Please consider supporting us on Patreon dot com slash Lovemrykill
For five dollars a month. You get early ad free access,
and a monthly bonus episode.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
Join us next Monday for another episode of Love Mary
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The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.