The Mysterious Death of Robert Wone

On the night of August 2, 2006, Robert Wone, 32, an attorney in Washington D.C., worked late into the night. Rather than taking a train home to the suburbs, he crashed for the night with his college friend, Joseph Price. He was found dead one hour and 19 minutes later from three abdominal stab wounds. The inhabitants of the house claimed an intruder stabbed Robert but there was no evidence supporting this theory. I promise, you won’t be able to forget this story for days and weeks to come…this is the story of the mysterious murder of Robert Wone.

Original Love Marry Kill air date: 11/27/2023

Support us on Patreon: https://patreon.com/lovemarrykill

Sources:

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqTSu_djsNM
• "Who Killed Robert Wone", Peacock original series
• https://www.zillow.com/homes/1509-Swann-St-NW-Washington,-DC-20009_rb/404059_zpid/
• https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2006/08/04/lawyer-killed-in-stabbing-at-rowhouse-in-northwest/fbc47991-d774-4fd9-9cad-7d7084618f15/
• https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2006/10/09/a-new-glimpse-into-night-of-dc-slaying/eaf5e02e-a612-4a99-b7a1-4be686463079/
• https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/wone-family-settles-20-million-lawsuit-against-three-former-dc-roommates/2011/08/02/gIQAsDDvsI_story.html
• https://www.washingtonian.com/2010/04/20/robert-wone-life-death-and-love/
• https://washingtoncitypaper.com/article/472149/judge-will-hear-testimony-regarding-prices-bro-in-wone-case

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Tina and I'm Rich. Welcome to Love Mary Kill.
Just the facts, all right, Well, I A I did

(00:21):
research a case here I want to present to you.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Tell me looking forward to hearing about it.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Oh boy, it's probably one of the most other than
Rebecca's A How, because no case is more head scratching
than Rebecca's A How. But the mysterious death of Robert
jan Wne. That's a story I'm going to be telling you.
And I did want to give a content warning for
today's episode. While not explicit, there is some sexual content

(00:50):
and adult themes that might make some listeners uncomfortable. Please
listen with care. I'll try to give you a little
bit of a like this is coming. You might want
to fast forward a little bit, but I'm not going
to go into great detail, and I'll try to make
it as antiseptic as possible.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Okay, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
On the night of August second, two thousand and six,
Robert Wan thirty two, an attorney in Washington, d C.
Worked late into the night. Rather than taking a late
train home to the suburbs, he crashed for the night
with his college friend Joseph Price. Robert was found dead
one hour and nineteen minutes later from three abdominal stab wounds.
The inhabitants of the house claimed an intruder stabbed Robert,

(01:30):
but there was no evidence supporting this theory. I promise
you will not be able to get this story out
of your head for days and weeks to come. This
is the story of the mysterious murder of Robert Juan.
Robert Eric Juan was born in Manhattan on June first,
nineteen seventy four, to parents William and Amy. His brother

(01:50):
Andrew was born five years later. William worked as a
VP for Chase Bank, and Amy was a school librarian.
Robert was a fourth generation Chinese American. He grew up
in Brooklyn, where he went to an all boys Catholic
school and graduated at the top of his class. He
was a Mets fan and liked to go to the
games with his family. He attended the College of William

(02:11):
and Mary in Virginia as a James Monroe Scholar beginning
in nineteen ninety two, majoring in public policy. The College
of William and Mary is the second oldest college in
the US, founded in sixteen ninety three, named for King
William the Third and Queen Mary, the second. Only Harvard
has been in existence longer. Robert met Joseph Price during

(02:33):
a campus tour with his parents and became fast friends.
Joe was a senior while Robert was a freshman. Both
were interested in pursuing a law degree. They were active
in student government together and also belonged to thirteen Club,
whose mission was to do random acts of kindness around campus.
Robert was always thoughtful in caring, putting others before himself.

(02:55):
During finals week, Robert would surprise weary students studying at
the library with candy. He was known to carry loose
change in his pocket to put in expired parking meters.
He made many lifelong friends at William and Mary. Robert
was recognized for his academic excellence by the Omicron, Delta,
Kappa Mortar Board, and Golden Key International Honor Society.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Same same you mean you me too, Jamesy's Yes, same
me too.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Of course, Well you had more academic accolades than I did.
Robert received the Elder Non Sydney Sullivan Award from the
College at graduation. It is presented to a student excelling
in quote characteristics of heart, mind, and helpfulness to others.
After He graduated from William and Mary in nineteen ninety six.
Robert went to law school at Penn State and graduated

(03:49):
in nineteen ninety nine with honors. He was exceptionally intelligent,
hard working, and ambitious. Robert was passionate about racial equality
and proud of his Chinese heritage. His accomplishments advocacy, volunteer work,
and organizations he belonged to are too long to list.
Once out of law school, he passed the bar. I

(04:10):
don't know this, but I'm guessing on the first time,
and worked as a law clerk for federal Judge Raymond Jackson,
and then moved on to the very prestigious law firm
Covington and Burling, where he practiced real estate law for
six years. It sounds like a fabulous young man. He
Robert met Chicago attorney Catherine Ellen Wu in January two

(04:32):
thousand and two at a legal conference in Philadelphia. Kathy
was first attracted to his voice over the phone when
she called him to ask him to be a panelist
for a session she was organizing. I don't want you
to get a big head, but I was attracted to
your voice. Oh when we first met too, Now it's
just great, savvy all day law, just creating. Be careful.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
I was just kidding.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
You have a very nice voice. When they met in person,
shy Kathy was interested but wasn't comfortable with being the aggressor,
but she found the courage to introduce herself. They felt
an immediate attraction and talked late into the night. They
began talking on the phone regularly. Robert called Kathy every
night at eight pm. They had their first date on

(05:17):
Valentine's Day when Kathy was in DC for work. They
began dating, flying frequently between Chicago and d C.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
That's like kind of a long distance relationship.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
After a month long trip together to China, Robert surprised
Kathy when they returned home with an apartment filled with flowers.
Rose petals led to a silver box with a fortune
cooking inside, with the message will you marry me?

Speaker 2 (05:42):
Very romantic?

Speaker 1 (05:43):
I know so sweet. They married soon after in June
two thousand and three, with Judge Jackson performing the ceremony.
That's the judge that he had clerked for. Joe Price
and his partner, Victor Zeborski attended the wedding. Robert had
recently been elected President of the nonprofit group National Asian
Pacific American Bar Association, who are an organization representing Asian

(06:05):
Pacific American lawyers in the United States. The group advocates
for the confirmation of more Asian Pacific judges. Robert was
very active in his church community and a mentor in
the Asian American community. He was known for his bright smile, intellect, kindness,
and generosity of his time and skills, doing pro bono

(06:25):
law work whenever possible, among his many other obligations to
the organizations he belonged to. Do you feel I feel lazy?
Like when I hear about people like this, I'm like,
I get out of I don't. Yeah, I need to
step it up.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah, me too.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
He and Kathy wanted to start a family. Kathy had
lupis and was warned by her doctors that becoming pregnant
may endanger her life. Robert told her quote, it took
my whole life to find you. Why would I want
to endanger your health for anything. The couple had just
started the process to adopt a baby girl from China.
In July two thousand Seve Robert landed his dream job

(07:01):
at Radio Free Asia as general counsel Radio Free Asia
is a nonprofit organization funded by the US government that
broadcasts news and cultural programming to China, North Korea, and
other parts of Asia. It was a pay cup for Robert,
but he knew the importance of getting accurate news and
information to Asian countries lacking free media. Kathy encouraged him

(07:24):
to take the job. She told him she didn't need
a Lexus, A Honda was just fine. I mean, just
a lovely couple. A lovely couple. In two thousand and six,
Joseph Price thirty five and Victors of Borski forty had
been in a committed relationship since the year two thousand.
Joe was well known in the Lgbtqia community. He co

(07:45):
founded and served as general counsel for Equality Virginia. From
two thousand and two to two thousand and six. He
worked as an attorney for Errant Fox, a prestigious law
firm where he practiced intellectual property law. Victor is a
Boriski is known to be kind, quiet, and subdued. He
was a marketing executive for the Dairy Association and worked

(08:07):
on the very popular Got Milk campaign.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
It's a great campaign.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
It was a great They really no one drinks milk anymore.
Everyone drinks almond milk or oat milk or soy milk.
So they need another campaign because I would be curious
to see the numbers. Yeah, but like our kids refused
to drink cow's milk. Dylan Ward joined Joe and Victor
about two years into their relationship. He had a master's

(08:32):
degree in children's literature. He began a small publishing house
and published and wrote several of his own books, Naughty Jack,
Silly Sally, the Loneliest Tree in the World, and Forget
Me Not. Dylan also had a culinary arts degree. He
was working as a messuse in two thousand and six.
The men were part of a polyamorous relationship, but Dylan
was kind of the third wheel. Are you following?

Speaker 2 (08:56):
I think I am. Yeah, you threw me for a
little bit of a loop there when you said that
Dylan and joined the relationship. I wasn't sure what you meant.
But then you cleared it up with polyamorous relationship.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
So we have Joe, who is Robert's college friend, and
then he is I don't think they were married, but
he and Victor have been together for a long time.
And yeah, then Dylan comes into the picture, and we're
going to go on from there. There was obvious tension
among Victor and Dylan, both vuying for Joe's attention, but
it was Victor that shared a bedroom and his life

(09:27):
with Joe. Dylan was more of a free spirit, noncommittal
in life and love, but the three men were working
on solidifying their commitment as a family. They actually called
themselves a family. Joe and Victor have two sons together
with a lesbian couple who live in Silver Spring, Maryland.
Joe was the donor for one son and Victor for

(09:48):
the other. Joe and Robert had been close friends since college.
They got together three to four times a year as
their schedules allowed. Victor and Dylan were friendly with Robert,
but not as close. Joe and Victor hosted Robert's thirtieth
birthday party in two thousand and four at their house.
Robert was heterosexual and very much in love with his wife, Kathy,

(10:09):
so Joe, Victor, and Dylan lived together at fifteen oh
nine Swan Street, a thirty one hundred square foot four bedroom,
four bath row house and the affluent DuPont Circle neighborhood
in DC about a mile from the White House. Joe
and Victor had purchased the house in April two thousand
and five for one point three million dollars. Beautiful house.

(10:31):
Row houses are continuous with their neighbor no space between them,
and walls are shared. You can picture that, right.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
Oh yeah, Well, I've been to DC many times and
I yeah, there's a lot of those there.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
It must be really fun when your neighbors are under construction.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
Fifteen oh nine Swan Street was impeccably clean and tastefully decorated.
The small backyard was surrounded by an eight foot fence
with a gate that was always dead bolted. The main
floor consisted of a small entryway, a living room, dining room,
and a kitchen. Dylan's room, a bathroom, and a study
with a pullout sofa that doubled as a guest room
were on the second floor. Victor and Joe's primary suite,

(11:09):
a bedroom, bathroom, and study took the entire third floor.
There was an apartment in the basement that was rented
out to their friend Sarah, who was not home on
the night of August second. August second, two thousand and six,
was a hot, humid day when Robert and Kathy won
awoke in their townhouse in Oakton, Virginia. They went to
the gym for their morning workout before they took the

(11:31):
train into DC where they worked. They were both busy,
disciplined people who liked to stick to a schedule. Robert
gave Kathy a quick kiss and a love you before
partying at eight forty five am at heading to their
respective jobs. Kathy had just started a new job at
American Health Law Association in July, and Robert two was
settling into his new job at Radio Free Asia. He

(11:53):
had a continuing legal education class that would keep him
in the city later than usual that night. He hadn't
had an opportunity to meet the overnight radio staff yet
and planned on doing that since he would be in
the city late. A couple of weeks earlier, he had
reached out to two friends to see if he could
stay the night at either of their places so he
wouldn't have to take the late train back to Oakden. First,

(12:16):
he reached out to a female friend. When she didn't
answer immediately, Robert reached out to Joe Price. Joe assured
Robert he was welcome to spend the night at his place,
which was only a few minutes away from his new office.
After his class an introduction to the overnight team at
Radio Free Asia, Robert was tired from his long day.
He called Kathy at nine thirty p m to wish
her a good night and say I love you. Then

(12:38):
he called Joe and told him he'd be there soon.
He arrived at fifteen o nine Swan Street in a
taxi at ten thirty p m. This was the first
time Robert had ever spent the night at the row House.
Victor had returned from a business trip earlier that evening
and was exhausted, so he retired to his room before
Robert's arrival. He planned to catch up with him over

(12:58):
breakfast in the morning. Joe and Dylan greeted Robert and
chatted for fifteen to twenty minutes over a glass of
water before showing him to the spare bedroom slash office
where he would be staying. He said he was going
to take a shower and go to sleep. Joe and
Victor were watching Project Runway in bed together. Victor was
feeling congested after his flight and took a pseudo fad

(13:18):
along with a unisom sleeping pill project runway ended at
eleven PM, and Joe and Victor went to sleep. Joe
heard the doorchime and assumed it was either their tenant,
Sarah or Dylan, but Dylan had also taken a sleeping
pill and was fast asleep. Joe, Victor, and Dylan were
oblivious to the reason uptick and break ins around DuPont's

(13:39):
Circle and were casual about setting their security system. It
was not set on the night of August second. Moments
after hearing the doorchime, Joe and Victor heard sounds they
described as guttural moans coming from the level below. They
rushed down the stairs and found Robert unconscious, lying on
his back, with a knife lying on his chest and

(14:00):
what Joe described as a lot of blood. Victor became hysterical,
screaming and crying. Joe told him to call nine one
one while he tended to Robert. Joe later admitted that
he had moved the knife from Robert's chest and placed
it on the nightstand. At eleven forty nine pm, Victor
called nine one one, and we're going to play the

(14:21):
nine one one call, and it's I think it's seven
eight minutes long, but I think it's important you hear
the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
All right, Let's listen.

Speaker 3 (14:29):
NBC Emergency nam' one operator six seven two. Do you
need ponice, fire or anions? What's wrong? Man?

Speaker 4 (14:38):
We had someone name us in our house evidently, and
they stabbed somebody.

Speaker 3 (14:44):
Okay, somebody's gonna sat in the house now.

Speaker 5 (14:47):
I don't know.

Speaker 6 (14:47):
We've heard.

Speaker 3 (14:48):
I'm a bleeding. Someone bleeding.

Speaker 4 (14:50):
Someone is bleeding in our health.

Speaker 3 (14:51):
Okay, where's they bleeding from? I think he's I think
in the stomach, may be cautious. Calm down for me,
and I'm gonna send him help. Okay, female or.

Speaker 7 (15:04):
Male, it's a male.

Speaker 4 (15:05):
He's a friend of ours. You're spent, you're spending the
night with us.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
Okay, who was the person that stabbed him? Do you
know if he is he conscious? We need to be going, ma'am.

Speaker 4 (15:15):
This is tell me he's not conscious.

Speaker 3 (15:16):
He's not conscious at all.

Speaker 4 (15:18):
No, we need going right now.

Speaker 5 (15:20):
Is he breathing?

Speaker 3 (15:21):
Listen, listen to me, calm down, gonna help you. Okay.

Speaker 4 (15:24):
If he's breathing, I'm upstairs and he's downstairs. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (15:31):
Okay, who's downstairs with him?

Speaker 4 (15:33):
My partner is downstairs with him in house. He don'd
me to go upstairs and policies immediately.

Speaker 3 (15:39):
Okay. Who is the person? Okay? I'm sending the paramids
and the police. Okay. Who is the person that stamped him?

Speaker 4 (15:45):
I don't know. We think it's somebody with an intruder
in the house. We heard the time the door.

Speaker 3 (15:54):
Fifteen man calm down, fifteen O nine Swan Street and
off aft of my correct the person that says him,
he's sitting the home and don't care what. Okay, we

(16:16):
got help him road, okay, per me, we have help
him ruth.

Speaker 4 (16:23):
From here.

Speaker 3 (16:24):
They are there in route to you now. I'm saying,
the police and the paramedics, okay, who assists? Okay. What
I need you to do is go downstairs, okay, the
place where wherever he was saying that. I need you
to get a drink, law okay, and just apply pressure
to that area if he just wherever he was staying
back on his body. And then you take a towel
down stairs while you're waiting for the paramedics to arrive
and just apply pressure. Even if the rag or tower

(16:46):
is saturated with blood, just get another towel and put
it on top. But never lifted the first towel off
the area, holding on once it gets sealed that we're buds.
Just putting never towel on top of that and just
apply pressure into the paramedics, right yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (17:03):
In the heart.

Speaker 3 (17:06):
Okay, is he breathing? We have help and roll now.

Speaker 5 (17:13):
Okay, you don't.

Speaker 4 (17:19):
Know who it was, don't quite don't chas Okay, is
he breathing, breathing?

Speaker 3 (17:30):
Okay, we have help her roll now, I'm okay, we
do have help her rout. Okay, just go down there
and try to tell your husband or your other the
other half to just try to keep him calm and
talk to him. Okay, keep them calm and talk to
him till someone gets there. And at the same time,
get a dry cloth and just hold it right there
in the area. Okay, okay, And once he gets saturated

(17:52):
with blood, can get another one. Go get another town.
So you've been apply it on top of dollar. Once
he gets healed up with blood, we need we need
you to apply pressure on the earth's okay, this holy thing.
Till the paramedids get there. They should be putting up
any moment. If they're already enround to your location. You
don't know who did this.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
We have no idea who get this.

Speaker 3 (18:12):
It's the door open so they can get in.

Speaker 4 (18:14):
We don't know how they got in.

Speaker 3 (18:15):
Okay, well I'm asking you now. It's the door open
so the paramedic can get in once they get here.

Speaker 4 (18:20):
But I'm sorry, what were you saying?

Speaker 3 (18:25):
It's the door open so they can get in. It's
the door open so the so the paramedicine get in
the home. It's a private home, apartment, it's a home.
It's a home at sixteen or nine Swan Street, North Wide.

Speaker 4 (18:38):
The person has one of our lives.

Speaker 3 (18:41):
The person that stays them ran out the door with
the knife, I think. Okay, anybody get any type of
description of the person that came in home.

Speaker 4 (18:51):
We have no description. We heard, we heard the shime,
and we heard the screams.

Speaker 3 (18:58):
From our parents, okay, and.

Speaker 4 (19:00):
So we came running downstairs, were running.

Speaker 3 (19:02):
So you both was upstairs and your friend was downstairs.
You heard the door open and then you heard the screen.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
We didn't.

Speaker 4 (19:09):
I didn't hear the door open until after the screen.
And then we ran down the stairs and we heard
we are we have an alarm until the time went off. Okay,
is the indoluence.

Speaker 3 (19:19):
We really need the indulance, okay, saying row, now, ma'am,
go to the door. They should be putting up any moment. Okay,
I'm afraid you're gonnaundersta. The person who's downstairs is the
person that was sorted.

Speaker 4 (19:32):
No, we're in the we're on the second floor.

Speaker 3 (19:34):
Okay, so somebody need to go to says open the
door for the pairramid you're not sure if that person
is still in the home, and I have no idea. Okay,
we have paramedig Okay, what time is it? What time
is it at the moment? The twenty three fifty four
is eleven sixty four? Man, Yes, I mean I'll stand
in line with you. I will stay on the line. Said,
somebody gets there tying, won't hang on. We need them

(19:54):
right now.

Speaker 4 (19:55):
I'm not hanging up, but we need we need help now.

Speaker 3 (19:57):
Okay, they in row, ma'am. The Iron Route. Let me
know when you hear the paramedics and you look out
the window and c and I'm coming.

Speaker 4 (20:09):
I'm looking out the window and I see nothing. I
see nobody.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
Okay. It seemed like for Apple. But they Iron Route, man,
they're coming.

Speaker 4 (20:17):
Here, They are here.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
They are they're there.

Speaker 4 (20:24):
I'm going downstairs.

Speaker 3 (20:26):
Okay, I'll spend the line with you to open go
for a paramedics. Okay, help us.

Speaker 4 (20:39):
We form a stop throwing our second floor.

Speaker 5 (20:43):
Oh ma'am.

Speaker 4 (20:55):
That's really.

Speaker 3 (20:59):
Sorry, man.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
Okay, it's hard to listen to. I failed to mention
that the nine one one operator thought that Victor was
a woman, and he never corrected her. Yeah, So what
did you think?

Speaker 2 (21:24):
Boy? It just sounds like a hard situation, just terrifying.
Like if you're Victor and you don't know if the
person who stabbed Robert is still in the house, that's like.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
Do you think his reaction was real?

Speaker 2 (21:38):
Oh gosh, yeah, yeah, I did not detect any kind
of acting or anything on that. Now, just to clarify
for my own benefit, So was Robert on the first
floor or the second floor where he was sleeping?

Speaker 1 (21:49):
There are three floors, there's a basement and then there's
three floors, right, So Robert was on the second floor, okay.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
And Victor and Joe their bedroom was on the third floor. Okay.
And Dylan's bedroom was also.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
On the second floor.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
Second floor.

Speaker 1 (22:02):
Okay, good question. Two EMTs Jeff Baker and Tracy Weaver
arrived within five minutes, and I just wanted to say,
I just am so grateful and amazed that EMTs and
nine one up operators exist and do such a fabulous
job keeping people, protecting people, and getting people medical treatment.

(22:23):
It's just amazing to me that they got there that fast. Yeah,
within five minutes.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
And they're going into this house where they don't they
don't know if.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
They know what they're going to say. They first encountered
Victor in a white robe, who simply muttered stabbing on
the second floor through his muffled sobs. They headed up
the stairs, where they saw Dylan wrapped in a bath towel.
He looked at the EMTs, didn't say a word, pointed
to the room Robert was in, then walked into his
bedroom and closed the door. Joe was sitting at the

(22:49):
edge of the bed in the guest room at the
other end of the hallway and only his underwear and
told Jeff I heard a scream. Robert was lying on
the nearly perfectly made pull out so bed, lying on
his back with three precise stab wounds, two on his
upper chest and one on his abdomen, almost surgical in nature.
He was wearing athletic shorts, a gray William and Mary

(23:11):
T shirt and underwear. The odd thing was there was
very little blood on the bed betting or Robert's body.
The blue and white striped betting wasn't rumpled, and the
devey was neatly folded at a forty five degree angle.
Jeff said it looked like Robert had been stabbed, then
showered and posed on the bed. He noted a slight

(23:33):
red hue to his abdomen and a towel like texture
to his skin. Robert was unresponsive, without a pulse, pale
and cold to the touch. His pupils were fixed and dilated.
Both the empts laters had something felt off and even
eerie about the situation. Jeff Baker told investigators that the
scene caused the hairs on the back of his neck

(23:54):
to stand up. Mind you, the EMTs were seasoned professionals.
They'd seen a lot in their combined twenty five years
of experience, but they were still spooked by the scene.
At fifteen oh nine Swan Street, the amts transferred Robert
to the ambulance. His shorts and T shirt were cut
from his body and retained for evidence. Robert was intubated

(24:15):
and chest compressions began. Attempts at establishing an ivy line
and multiple locations failed. The ambulance arrived at George Washington
University Hospital, where doctors made more attempts to restart Robert's heart,
but it was too late. He could not be resuscitated.
He was pronounced dead at twelve twenty four am on

(24:35):
August third. Joe Price called Robert's wife, Kathy, awakening her
at twelve oh four am. Joe told her she needed
to get to the hospital as soon as possible. Kathy
called Robert's parents and picked them up on the way
to the hospital. It is such a heartbreaking. I know,
poor Kathy, and she seems like the sweetest woman. Shortly

(24:58):
after twelve am on August third, police arrived on the
scene after Robert was taken away in an ambulance. The
three roommates were all wearing spotless white robes and looked
to have freshly showered, wet hair, which raised some eyebrows.
They sat on the couch together while the investigation ensued.
Officers observed them whispering amongst themselves. Dylan began speaking, breaking

(25:19):
the heavy silence Joe gave him a foreboding look, and
he quieted. Joe became the spokesperson for the group. He
told the detectives that they had all gone to bed
around ten forty five, and then some time later he
was awoken by the door.

Speaker 5 (25:34):
Time.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
He assumed it was the fourth roommate.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
The fourth roommate, that's the one that lived in the basement.

Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yes, Sarah who lived in the base.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
She wasn't there, right, she.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
Was not there. That night, Joe started to fall back
to sleep when he and Victor heard a scream coming
from Robert's room. Joe walked the police around the house
to demonstrate their actions that night. He noted that the
back door was unlocked and remained slightly ajar. He volunteered
that an end intruder must have come in and stabbed Robert.
He mentioned a homeless man frequented the alley and he

(26:06):
may have come into the house. There was no evidence
an intruder had entered the home. There was no forced entry,
no items were missing, and the house was perfectly clean.
Joe had made a critical error during the initial questioning.
Police officer Diane Durham arrived on the scene. Joe, then
only wearing underwear, told her a different story than the
one that he would later tell. Diane said, quote, he

(26:30):
said they heard someone scream and ran downstairs to see underwear.
Guy said the victim was that the patio door bleeding.
They opened the door, took him upstairs and laid him
on the bed, and then she told him to go
put some clothes on.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
Don't blame her.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
So their story is that they found Robert in the bed. Yeah,
then he had told Diane, Oh, no he was, he
was by the Yeah, that's strange. Yeah, it was very strange.
At twelve thirty am, all three men were transported separately
to the Metropolitan Police Departments Violent Crimes Brand or VCB
to continue the interview while investigators stayed behind and searched

(27:07):
the house. They were taken into three separate rooms and
the interviews were taped. The police were hyper focused on
Robert's sexuality and didn't understand why he would spend the
night in a house with three gay men.

Speaker 7 (27:21):
Well, the back door wasn't wide open, the gate wasn't open.
No one jumped the fence, nobody landed in the dirt.
The dirt is not disturbed in any way around the fence,
where you would have to stand to climb over the fence.
Nobody climbed over the fence either direction. They didn't go
out that way.

Speaker 6 (27:39):
I don't know. It's what you would see with the dirt.

Speaker 5 (27:41):
But oh, I don't know.

Speaker 7 (27:42):
I do know, and I've been on many and many
a see.

Speaker 6 (27:45):
Okay, I don't know. I honestly. What I do know,
without his shadow of a doubt, is that neither Dylan
or or you don't do anything. I do know that.

Speaker 3 (27:56):
I know that.

Speaker 8 (27:59):
What on earth, what a reason on God's green earth
would they have to do this? But you, it's not
even possible.

Speaker 6 (28:05):
That they couldn't.

Speaker 9 (28:06):
Even Like Joe, I have a problem Joe, because the
whole time I sit in here and talk with you,
I have.

Speaker 6 (28:13):
Yet to hear you say you wouldn't do it. I'm
getting okay, you.

Speaker 8 (28:18):
Know what, because that's I don't even need to say
I wouldn't do it.

Speaker 6 (28:20):
It's impossible because this is one of my oldest friends.
I mean, this guy. I went to Joe, Joe, you
guys can't.

Speaker 9 (28:27):
Joe, if if if, if, if I didn't do it,
and all these guys are my friend, I'm not going
to say.

Speaker 6 (28:36):
I'm not going to say Joe.

Speaker 9 (28:37):
If somebody else didn't do it, I'm going to say,
we ain't do it.

Speaker 6 (28:40):
That's the way I'm going to respond. I'm going to
say we didn't. I have taken it for granted that
you guys don't think I did it. But you know,
obviously I'm an idiot.

Speaker 8 (28:47):
Okay, maybe you know I'm a I'm a suspect too,
But you know why? This is one of my oldest friends.
What on what on earth would possess me to do
such a thing? Never mind could I do it? That's
it's crazy.

Speaker 7 (29:00):
The whole thing is crazy. The guy ain't supposed to
be staying over at your house tonight.

Speaker 6 (29:05):
That's crazy. That doesn't make.

Speaker 8 (29:07):
Any sense, you know, But just ask his wife if
he was playing to I can show you the emails
right here. Probably, I mean, I you know I got
my black right, this is from my work account.

Speaker 7 (29:19):
Well, maybe he's thinking about doing a little experimentation.

Speaker 5 (29:24):
I don't you know.

Speaker 3 (29:27):
I were.

Speaker 6 (29:27):
I would tell you, guys, Why would you because what?

Speaker 5 (29:30):
Because?

Speaker 6 (29:31):
Why not tell you? I mean, my god, I want
you to find who did this?

Speaker 7 (29:36):
Suppose you mean, I'll give you one right and you
know it. You're making me say it.

Speaker 8 (29:42):
You know what.

Speaker 6 (29:42):
The reason, I don't know it.

Speaker 7 (29:45):
I got three homosexuals in a house and I got
one straight guy.

Speaker 6 (29:48):
What's he doing over there? What is he doing over there?

Speaker 7 (29:52):
I think we're all drinking wine. You know what's going
to happen tonight. You're coming to Jesus tonight. That's what's
going on.

Speaker 6 (30:00):
Fascinating and insulting.

Speaker 7 (30:02):
Here, that's why you made me say it.

Speaker 6 (30:05):
But you know what, that's not what happened. Robert's happily married.

Speaker 5 (30:09):
I do know that.

Speaker 7 (30:11):
But Jill is not happily married, is he?

Speaker 3 (30:13):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (30:14):
He is to you?

Speaker 7 (30:15):
Yes, yeah, okay, Yeah, that's why you're upstairs with Victor.
H he's downstairs with Robert Robert.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
Yeah, so it's impossible. I was just gonna say that
a straight man to be friends with me.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
Yeah, I can understand them being a little the polyamorous
thing with the three guys that I can understand. The
police are probably not familiar with that. It's probably a
you know, they probably have a hard time understanding that.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
But and it was fifteen years ago. Yeah, so I
I will give them a little a little bit of
credit for they're not credit but grace for that.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
But yeah, can I ask you, though, did was any
evidence found by the patio door, like was their blood
there the place that he told the officer that he
was stabbed at?

Speaker 5 (31:04):
Or?

Speaker 1 (31:05):
No? Okay, it was noted that Joe was arrogant and
loquacious while Dylan and Victor were quiet and subdued. Because
Joe and Victor were partners. I mean, they were all partners,
but you know the longest term relationship with Joe and Victor.
The investigators honed in on Dylan, assuming that he would
be the most likely to spill the truth. He was
given a polygraph test and he was only asked two questions,

(31:28):
did you kill Robert? Do you know who killed Robert?
And he failed. As the night wore on, Joe changed
his story and admitted that he had actually pulled the
knife out of Robert's chest and the three men were there.
They were kept there for hours, well until after dawn.
Here's another quick clip of Victor's interrogation.

Speaker 3 (31:48):
You may have been.

Speaker 6 (31:49):
Told by your friends, this is not goun't work. We
haven't talked at all, Victor. I swear we have not
talked at all. The only conversation we had was in
front of police officers. Yes, m mm no, it's not.

Speaker 10 (32:06):
No, it's not.

Speaker 6 (32:07):
Yes, you have talked.

Speaker 10 (32:09):
You have talked.

Speaker 6 (32:10):
He talked to Joe and he talked to Dylan, and
one or both of them are talking to us.

Speaker 5 (32:16):
Now.

Speaker 6 (32:17):
You wanna be the only one left out there?

Speaker 8 (32:18):
Yes, I wanna be the only one that left left
out there if that's the case, because I am telling
you one hundred percent the honest truth.

Speaker 6 (32:25):
It is not the truth. It is not the truth.
That man was dead for a while. It's impossible. It's impossible.

Speaker 5 (32:32):
It's not impossible.

Speaker 6 (32:33):
It's a medical certain. Yes, yes, think about your story
a person breaking in.

Speaker 10 (32:45):
Nobody's gonna believe that somebody breaks into your house goes into.

Speaker 6 (32:51):
That particular room to kill Robert.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
You don't even though he was there.

Speaker 10 (32:57):
You cannot go to jail. I'm telling you from experience
as many years as a police officer. You will not
last in DC jail. Those boys will eat you alive.
That is not a place that you want to go.
And you don't want to go there covering some bullshit up.

Speaker 6 (33:15):
I'm not covering anything up.

Speaker 10 (33:17):
You need to tell the truth.

Speaker 5 (33:18):
I am.

Speaker 6 (33:19):
Things can be worked out.

Speaker 10 (33:21):
People understand there's different levels.

Speaker 6 (33:25):
Of homicide.

Speaker 8 (33:27):
I honest, honestly, I am telling you exactly the facts.

Speaker 3 (33:32):
That I know.

Speaker 6 (33:32):
You know, you're not.

Speaker 5 (33:34):
No you're not.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
That clip just makes me laugh a little bit because
it's like, no, you're not, Yes you are, No, you're
It's just obviously a police officer is a parent, because
that sounds like so many interrogations I've had with it. Yeah, yeah,
but it doesn't mean.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
Victor seems very sincere, like both on the nine on
non call and in that interrogation, I do not, just
based on hearing his voice, I do not believe he
is lying.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
I mean, of course we're gonna discussed this at the end,
so I'm not going to say too much else. At
this point, Victor was exhausted from the adrenaline wearing off,
the sleeping pill and his earlier flight. At one point,
he asked for an attorney and said he was done
answering questions. The detective agreed to let him go, left
the room, said I'll be right back. He returned and

(34:19):
then began questioning him again. He kind of played a
dirty trick on him. He was just like, I'm just
gonna go to check in with Joe real quick. I'll
be right back, and then he comes in the room
and he was like, let me get what was your
full name again? And what was your birthday? And then
he just starts questioning him again, and Victor was too
nice to say, I want my lawyer again. And meanwhile,

(34:42):
back at the townhouse, the crime scene was thoroughly scoured.
Several items were taken into possession. The sheets on the
pullout sofa bed had two blood stains, not small in nature,
and I'm being generous here by calling them about the
size of a dinner plate. So there were just two bloodstains,
that's it, okay, But considering a man had been stabbed
and murdered in the bed, there was very little blood.

(35:04):
A large white towel was found on the floor. I
remember the nine one one Paul, and she was like,
apply pressure to the wound, and you know, you would
expect a fair amount of blood, and I'll post a picture.
There's not many. Frustrating, but there's not many crime scene photos.
I wish I could see a picture of Robert's T shirt,
but I don't have that. But we do have a
picture of the towel, and it doesn't look like you know, life,

(35:29):
there's not a ton of blood on him. Yeah, Again,
considering the fatal nature of the crime, the spots were small,
and that was the most baffling aspect to the investigation.
Where was the blood. There were no blood spatters or
drips anywhere in the room or elsewhere in the house
for that matter. The exterior of the house was searched
for evidence of an intruder and none was found. Drains

(35:51):
both inside and outside the house were searched for evidence
of DNA, but again none was found. There was a
layer of pollen along the top of the fence that
remained undisturbed, as well as cobwebs, so police were certain
early on that no one had entered the house. Plants
along the fence line didn't seem trampled at all, and

(36:12):
the hose on the back patio was unrolled and looked
as if it had recently been used, which raised some
eyebrows because nothing else in the house was out of place,
so they just seemed like the type of people like,
I'm going to coil this hose back cup after I
use it. A knife sat on the nightstand next to
the bed. There was blood on the sides of the knife,
but none on the handle. In the kitchen there was

(36:34):
a knife block with a missing knife. Robert's clothes were
neatly folded on the desk, along with his two wallets,
Nevada watch and BlackBerry. He kept a dummy wallet in
his pocket in case he was mugged. That's pretty smart.
Robert was a very slight man. He was only I
think he was five feet four inches. His cell phone

(36:55):
was on the nightstand. The betting looked too perfect. The
covers were barely rumpled and neatly folded back. The investigators
found no evidence of an intruder. Nothing was out of place,
knocked over or broken. And Dylan's room, Okay, this is
where it gets a little gnarly. And Dylan's room, hundreds
of sex toys and BDSM devices were found. The detective

(37:17):
called it an extensive collection of shackles, whips, chains, all
kinds of restraints, a device that looked like a gas mask,
torture devices. An electro ejaculation machine was found, which is
used in people with spinal cord injuries or other medical
conditions when the person can't ejaculate on their own. Dylan

(37:38):
owned several books about inflicting pain for pleasure. Among the
sexual detritus found in Dylan's room was a boxed three
piece set of Wustoff knives, a chef's knife, a meat fork,
and a shorter utility knife. The utility knife was missing
from the set and was never found. Drug sniffing dogs
were brought in and and they only found a few

(38:01):
tablets of ecstasy, but the dogs alerted on two separate
locations in the house. A search warrant was issued for
the electronic devices of the three men. Thousands of graphic,
sexual and pornographic images were found many of the three men.
The images revealed a shift and the power dynamic among

(38:21):
the men in their careers. Joe was clearly the most
aggressive and successful, but in sexual matters, Dylan was the
dominant one. Joe and Dylan were in a dominant submissive
sexual relationship. They were working on getting Victor to be
more comfortable and join them. Joe was also found to
have an active kink life online that I am not

(38:42):
going to go into. So one thing that I read
online was that Joe and Dylan were kind of always
looking for another partner, and I assumed that Victor was
okay with that. He didn't love it, but he just
knew that that was something that they needed to fulfill. Okay, Joe, Victor,
and Dylan cooperated with the investigation and gave fingerprint and

(39:05):
DNA samples, and they all hired attorneys. There are a
lot of attorneys in this story. Law enforcement thoroughly investigated
the house for three weeks. None of the four roommates
ever slept in the house again. Two hundred eighty samples
were taken from the house, sections of walls, the staircase,
and carpet, yet no usable blood evidence was found. The

(39:27):
damage that the police did to the house was estimated
at two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Oh wow, And
I am guessing that police do not cover that.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
I don't know a good question.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
I don't think they do.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
Like you've probably not.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
I think we should. This is probably a good place
to take a quick break.

Speaker 2 (39:52):
Okay. So the police collected all the samples from the house,
no blood evidence. That's weird. That's so weird.

Speaker 1 (39:59):
There's a We're going to get to some bad police
work in a minute. In the days after Robert's death,
family and friends surrounded Kathy with love and support and
her and Robert's Oakton townhouse and helped her with funeral arrangements. Joe,
Victor and Dylan even paid a visit. Robert's funeral was
held on August eighth and was heavily attended. Twelve friends

(40:22):
gave eulogies, and Joe print Price was a pallbearer. Doctor
Lois Goslinowski conducted the autopsy. She was very experienced, having
conducted over two thousand autopsies. She noted three slit like cuts,
two on the upper chest torso area, piercing the right lung, heart, aorta,
and pericardium, and one in the abdomen. The wounds were

(40:47):
between four and four and a half inches deep and
less than an inch long. The precision of the stab
wounds made it likely that Robert was very still immobilized
or even paralyzed during the attack. The cuts were nearly
identical in depth, with an orientation, and all at a
slight diagonal left to right. Robert had no defensive wounds

(41:07):
on his hands or anywhere on his body. His cause
of death was the stab to his heart, and the
manner of death was homicide. Blood had leaked into his
small intestine, indicating that Robert had not died immediately. There
was hemorrhaging in his left eye indicated that he may
have been smothered. He was likely alive for about a

(41:29):
minute after the stabbing. There was no evidence of him
being restrained and there were no skin abrasions. Was he drugged.
There were several needle puncture marks on his hands, chest, feet, neck,
and interior elbow, but it's not clear if these were
from the attempts to establish the IV. Robert wore a

(41:49):
mouthguard at night to prevent him from grinding his teeth,
and the mouth guard was in his mouth at the
time of his death. Cathy said that inserting it was
always the last thing he did before he went to sleep,
and to me, that was a big piece of evidence,
because you're not going to put a mouthguard in if
you're expecting some sort of sexual encounter.

Speaker 5 (42:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
Law enforcement requested a rape kippie performed on Robert after
the BDSM items were found in Dylan's room. Semen was
found around his penis and inside his rectum. The DNA
test revealed the semen belonged to Robert. Doctor Goslinowski estimated
that two thirds of Robert's blood had bled out of

(42:30):
his body. Wow, where is Where is? The blood. The
toxicology report came back completely clean for drugs and alcohol.
But there are drugs that can render a person immovable,
that are undetectable in an autopsy, that quickly break down
into organic compounds.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
Where would where would someone get a drug drugs like that?
Though it just seems crazy.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
I have one idea that I'll tell you in a
little bit. Kathy One is a private, quiet, reserved person.
She was devastated by Robert's death. In the beginning, she
went along with the intruder theory, but as time past,
she realized that it just wasn't plausible. She was unable
to leave her bed for five weeks. She suffered from
Bell's palsy and lupus, and from painful swelling and stiffening

(43:18):
of her joints. She required a cane to walk her.
Doctors told her the internalization of grief was affecting her health.
She struggled with the lack of answers and implored law
enforcement to quicken the pace of their investigation. Kathy told
The Washington Post in an email quote, it hurts me
a great deal to think that whoever took Robert's life

(43:39):
is probably going on with life as usual. While I'm
struggling to close an enormous, gaping wound and move on,
I can't help but shake my head at the picture
of incredible unfairness. I mean, it is so unfair. After
Robert's death, she struggled for years with grief and oppression.
She attended counseling, but was only able to work part time.

(44:01):
Kathy was unable to return to the townhouse she shared
with Robert and stayed with friends for the next seven months.
Unpaid bills mounted, but she didn't care whether the bank foreclosed.
She said, quote, my accomplishment of the day was getting
out of bed, taking a shower, and making it to
the breakfast table. The mere act of existing was almost unbearable.

(44:21):
I was convinced I would never know happiness again.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
And quote that's tough.

Speaker 5 (44:25):
I know.

Speaker 1 (44:27):
She's such a sweet lady. Eventually, she moved back to
her home in Oakden and adopted as she but you knew,
named Buddy. My dogs make everything better.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
Kathy was frustrated by law enforcement's inability to charge anyone
with her husband's murder. In twenty ten, Kathy told The
Washington Post Henry Jaffey, I just I loved being his wife.
On the night of August second, a neighbor recalled hearing
a scream sometime while they were watching the late news
between eleven and eleven thirty. The nine to one to

(44:58):
one call didn't happen until eleven forty nine. Two emails
were found on Robert's phone in his draft file from
eleven oh eight that leaves forty one mysterious minutes. Two
weeks after Robert's murder, cadaver dogs were brought into the house.
Investigators didn't believe Robert had died in the bedroom because

(45:19):
there was no till there was little to no blood evidence.
The dogs were brought in to see if Robert could
have been killed in a different area of the house.
They alerted on two spots, the lint trap of the
dryer and a drain on the patio. Ashley's reagent was
used in the house. Ashley's reagent is used to find
blood that has been cleaned up. Detectives were over zealous

(45:42):
and applied the reagent everywhere, sure they were going to
find blood. However, they failed to follow the directions for
the chemicals application. It was applied to vertical services, which
causes the reagent to drip and obscure blood stains. Any
blood evidence was thrown out to make matters worse. Ashley's
reagent stained every surface on the house that it was

(46:05):
sprayed on. Oh boy, so there was like I think
despite misusing Ashley's pre agent, there was some blood. I
think it was a very little book. They did find
some they you know, they had to throw it out.
The supposed murder weapon was a steak knife that came

(46:25):
out of the knife block that was on the kitchen counter.
It was five and a half inches long. Here's a
little clip talking about it.

Speaker 9 (46:32):
Say your DNA is the only DNA is on that?

Speaker 6 (46:36):
Okay, who would you do that? I mean, who would
you say? I don't know.

Speaker 8 (46:42):
I don't know how the whole DNA came worse. But
it's a kitchen knife in our house. You know, I
use it, uses it.

Speaker 9 (46:48):
But you're saying that somebody else use that person DNA
would be on a knife because when you hold it
that knife like this and you're going down this about
its chest, you're applying more pressure, more skin sale or you.

Speaker 6 (47:04):
Were going to find somebody else's DNA on that. So
you want to find some Okay, good you will unless
they're wearing a glove. So what happens if I find
just your DNA on that.

Speaker 8 (47:12):
Night, It's not possible because unless the person had a
glove on it means.

Speaker 6 (47:19):
That you want to ask. I'm asking you what happened
If I just find your DNA on that night, I
don't know.

Speaker 8 (47:29):
If it's possible for my DNA to get on it
for me picking it up, then you will find my
DNA on it.

Speaker 6 (47:36):
Right So therefore, if.

Speaker 9 (47:39):
Because it is kind of possible for it to be
on it if you're just picking it up, Okay, So
if I find you, if I find your DNA on it,
and your DNA is all.

Speaker 8 (47:46):
Over that night, but it's not if you can't get
it on there from just picking up the knife, then
you want to find it.

Speaker 1 (47:55):
That was Joe by the way. Okay, So the knife
was sent to allow for analysis, and no DNA belonging
to anyone in the house was found, which I thought
was kind of interesting.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
So why was the coup so focused on that?

Speaker 1 (48:08):
Well, that was the initial night of the interrogation, so
they didn't know what was going to come out of
the lab. White fibers along with Robert's chest hairs clung
to the knife. The white fibers were consistent with the
towel that was found in the bedroom. There was one
fat globule adhering to the knife. A slight impression from

(48:29):
the towel was found on the knife, as if someone
had pressed the bloody towel to the knife, like transferring
blood to the knife, so the knife looked like it
had been used. Robert was wearing a gray William and
Mary t shirt at the time of his death, and
there were three cuts in the shirt from the stabbing,
but no gray fibers were found on the knife. Those findings,

(48:50):
in addition to the depth of the stab wounds, called
into question whether the knife in the bedroom was the
actual murder weapon and brought investigators back to the missing
knife from Yllen's room. But where did it go? Every
investigation has a few bumps, but the investigation into Robert's
death had a few critical errors that likely prevented justice.

(49:13):
Robert's BlackBerry was lost. The District of Columbia Metropolitan Police
Department had handed over the BlackBerry to Secret Service to
be imaged, and it was returned to Radio Free Asia erased.
The two drafted emails from the night of August, second
were lost, which could have helped better establish the timeline.

(49:33):
One email was to Kathy and the other was to
a friend that Robert was planning to have lunch with
the next day, but we don't know the contents of
those emails. Several hours of the suspects interrogations were also lost.
Critical drug tests were not done on Robert's blood, and
now not enough blood remains to do any more testing.
There's only three cubic centimeters left, and I'm guessing they're

(49:57):
keeping that in case they needed for any new evidence
they might pop up. The driyer where this scent dog
had alerted wasn't investigated further. I just want to remind
you of the timeline really quick. So Robert arrived at
the house at ten thirty and they just chatted briefly.
They went to bed at ten forty five.

Speaker 2 (50:18):
Robert.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
If the emails were sent by Robert, that's kind of
been in question as to whether someone else could have
sent them as you know, sort of a alibi that
Robert was still awake. Those were sent at eleven oh eight.
Victor called nine to one one at eleven forty nine,
so somebody sometime between eleven eight and eleven forty nine

(50:40):
was when Robert was stabbed. The neighbors heard the scream.
They couldn't pinpoint it anymore to oh, we heard it
while we were watching the news. Was somewhere between eleven
and eleven thirty. The EMTs arrived at eleven fifty five
and Robert was declared that at twelve twenty four, and
I should mention to the scream. The neighbor heard the scream.

(51:01):
It could have been when Victor walked into the room, because,
like Joe said, he was it sounds like he was
hysterically screaming. Joe's younger brother, Michael, was once a suspect.
He was studying phlebotomy and had access to a paralytic drug.
And Michael had a history, a long history of drug
and alcohol abuse. Joe had defended him many times. Michael

(51:24):
had a key to Joe's house and knew his way
around the house. The night of the murder was the
only night that Michael missed his class. However, his phone
didn't ping at fifteen oh nine Swan Street, and he
had an alibi. But those two things don't.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
Really mean it left his phone somewhere.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
Else, right, and his alibi was his partner, but he
was never considered a serious suspect. Two months after the murder,
when the house was vacant, Michael was reported for burglarizing
the house on Swan Street and stealing flat screen TVs
and other items of value. The stolen items were found
at a local pawn shop. Michael was never charged with

(52:00):
any crime. However, Okay, so a year has gone on
and there's no arrests, Like, that's just maddening right now.
After a year without an arrest, Kathy One was frustrated
by the lack of movement in Robert's case. Robert's former
law practice, Covington and Berling, treated her like family. Eric
Holder was the head of the firm before becoming US

(52:23):
Attorney General in two thousand and nine. He had held
Robert in the highest regard and personally saw to his case.
Hold Her and Kathy held a press conference and he said, quote,
for those in fifteen oh nine Swan Street where Robert
was killed, you need to truly ask yourselves. Truly truly
ask yourselves. Have I provided the police with all the

(52:43):
information that might be relevant to the investigation of this crime.
Only you, your conscience and your God know the answer
to that question. But that is the question you must
ask yourselves. If you care about Robert, if you truly
care about this family, if you care about Kathy, come
forward and share all of the information you have end quote,

(53:04):
And no one came forward. Isn't that impressive though? That
like Eric Holder, Yeah, is Kathy's attorney. It is more
than two years after Robert's death, in hopes he would
turn on Joe and Victor, Dylan Ward was arrested in Florida.
He was held in custody for more than a month
and never changed his story. Joe and Victor were given

(53:26):
an opportunity by prosecutors to cooperate. They were told they'd
be taken into custody if they didn't reveal what really happened.
On August second, neither man gave investigators what they were
looking for, and they were arrested. The trio were indicted
with obstruction of justice, conspiracy to obstruct justice, and tampering

(53:47):
with evidence on November nineteenth, two thousand and eight, but
there were no murder charges.

Speaker 2 (53:53):
Was Dylan still with Joe and Victor at this point, Yeah, there.

Speaker 1 (53:57):
Was still very much a family at that point. The
arrest affidavit rocked the friends and family of Robert Hard
when they realized Joe, Dylan, and Victor were likely active
participants in Robert's death, not survivors of a murderous intruder.
The affidavit claimed that Joe, Victor and Dylan tampered with
a crime scene by replacing the murder weapon with the
knife from the knife block, and that they had cleaned

(54:20):
blood from Robert and transferred blood onto the planted knife.
The affidavit also claimed they lied to law enforcement and
suggested that Robert Juan had been injected with a paralytic drug,
sexually assaulted, smothered, and then stabbed. The affidavit completely dismissed
the theory that Robert could have been killed by an intruder.

(54:40):
A week later, Kathy filed a twenty million dollar civil
lawsuit against Joe, Victor, and Dylan for the participation and
the wrongful death of Robert. The lawsuit alleges quote the
evidence suggests that rather than administering aid to Robert Juan
or making a prompt report to authorities, the defendants spent
the crucial minutes after the stabbing coordinating their stories, altering

(55:04):
and orchestrating the crime scene and destroying evidence. The defendants
are parties to an ongoing conspiracy that was conceived no
later than the night of Robert Want's murder, went into
effect on that night and continues to this day. End quote.
They all pleaded not guilty and hired high profile defense attorneys.

(55:25):
Joe hired powerhouse attorney Bernie Grimm. They were released on
bail but required to wear inkle monitors. Judge Lynn Leebowitz
presided over the trial. She didn't allow Dylan's sex toys,
restraints or devices into evidence or the semen found on Robert,
despite their being clear evidence of Robert being sexually assaulted.

(55:48):
The defendants requested a bench trial and they feared an
impartial jury was impossible. The prosecution didn't contest it, which
they had a right to do. So can you believe
that she didn't let that evidence?

Speaker 2 (56:00):
Why do you say there was clear evidence of Robert
being sexually assaulted? Though?

Speaker 1 (56:05):
Well, in my opinion, just the fact that he had
like how else did he have semen all over him?
And that's where that machine came into play. I believe, okay,
I believe there was some sort of sexual encounter or
assault I should say, not encounter, and that's why he
had his own semen all over him.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
Okay, Yeah, that does seem strange that she didn't allow
that into evidence.

Speaker 3 (56:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
The trial began on May seventeenth and lasted until June
twenty fifth, twenty ten. If convicted, Joe, Victor and Dylan
faced up to thirty eight years in prison. The prosecution
called thirty witnesses and the defense only called eight witnesses.
Doctor Henry Lee, the much acclaimed forensic pathologist and often
expert witness, testified that the lack of blood at the

(56:49):
scene was due to blood remaining inside Robert's body cavity,
due to his lack of movement and the small size
of the wounds.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
He was testifying for the defense. Yes, yeah, I'm not
buying it either.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
Doctor Lee incidentally has been recently accused of fabricating evidence
in a nineteen eighty five murder trial that sent two
man men to jail.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
I was gonna say, I seem to recall his star falling.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
Producing some people are kind of questioning a lot of
his work. He's eighty four now too, not that an
eighty four year old can't still be working. Dylan's mother
testified that she had sent the wust Hof knife kit
to Dylan as a gift, and she kept the missing
knife for herself. I'm gonna do that with her suspresiens.

Speaker 2 (57:36):
This year with here's a gift for you, I'm.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
Having to take half of that. She kept the missing
knife for herself, although she was not able to reproduce
the knife. The defense claimed a neighbor reported the lid
to their child's sandbox was caved in the day after
the murder, as if someone used it to like catapult
himself over the over the fence. Okay, but on the

(58:02):
other side of the fence is like a you would
go down into a steep brick staircase. So that didn't
seem like it was.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
Yeah, they were just trying to throw any kind of
doubt that they could.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
Exactly and the three defendants did not testify. It took
Judge Leibowitz an hour to read her thirty eight page verdict,
and I am going to read that to you now.
She made it clear that she strongly believed that it's
better for a guilty man to walk free rather than
to have an innocent man go to jail. She thought

(58:36):
the men were responsible for Robert's death and were withholding information,
but she did not think the prosecution proved their case
beyond a reasonable doubt, and she found all three men not.

Speaker 2 (58:47):
Guilty, which interesting.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
Really frustrating. And she also said that she did not
buy the knife evidence. Actually, she thought the knife from
the kitchen was the actual murder weapon because of the
fat globule on it, which I did question that too. Yeah,
I don't know how they would have been able to
transfer that, but it is super suspicious, so that Dylan

(59:10):
has this missing knife.

Speaker 2 (59:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
Kathy's twenty million dollar wrongful death lawsuit accused Joe, Victor
and Dylan of not securing medical attention sooner for Robert.
Kathy said the lawsuit wasn't about the money, but holding
someone accountable for her husband's death. The case was settled
out of court for an undisclosed amount. After the trio
refused to answer questions during their depositions, they pleaded the

(59:32):
fifth Kathy was stunned and frustrated by the men's decision
to invoke the fifth during their depositions. She felt she
had no other choice but to settle the lawsuit. She
really didn't want to, but she was just like, it's
not going to go anywhere. Yeah, that's too bad, so frustrating,
she told the Washington Post quote. They can rot from
the inside out from all the secrets they chose to keep.

(59:54):
That's their choice. I chose to move on. Half of
the settlement went to a charitable trust set up in
Robert's name, and the other half to a law clinic
at the University of Pennsylvania Law School to offer a
legal aid to inner city residents. One of the things
that hurt Kathy most was that people assumed that Robert

(01:00:14):
had been killed in a sex game gorond wrong. People
would avoid her or not look her in the eye.
She told the Washington Post quote. It was an assumption
by people who did not know Robert at all. He
was an open book, and he and I had a
very deep understanding and trust of each other. People can
continue to choose to believe what they want. I have
moved on. Kathy has remarried and lives in Washington, d c.

(01:00:38):
And still works as an attorney. A year after Robert's murder,
the house on Swan Street was sold for one point
five million dollars. Joe and Victor moved to Miami Shores, Florida,
hiding away living a quiet private life, both still working
in their chosen careers. Joe changed his name and goes
by Joe Anderson now, which is like, if everyone knows
you go by Joe Anderson.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
Which changed the name common name, though hard to find.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
It is funny though, Yeah, and he and Victor remain
a couple. Joe had a business distributing porn. I'm not
sure if it's if it still exists or not, but
what a way to stay under the radar, Joe. Yeah,
Dylan is no longer a member of the family. Immediately
after the acquittal, he absconded to Thailand and attended a
school to become a pilates instructor. Today, he works as

(01:01:24):
a pilates instructor and massage therapist in the Miami area,
and he is married to someone different. He changed his
name and goes by Dylan Thomas. So try and search
for Dylan Thomas and Joey Anderson and see how many
hits you get. Yeah, so Dylan, doesn't he sound just
like kind of like a spoiled rich guy, Like I

(01:01:45):
think his parents had money, because you know, he just
kind of flitted around and did a lot of different careers.
In cases like Robert Wan, it's easy to get caught
up in the mystery and intrigue, but we must never
forget that a wonderful man lost his life and his
friends and family bear the burden of his grief forever.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
Yeah, it's so sad. It seems like such a great guy,
and Kathy seems like a great gal.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
I held it together, but I'm breaking a little bit.
But yeah, it just sounds like a fabulous man. And
you know things, I have no doubt.

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
Yeah, no justice, no justice.

Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
I mean maybe someday something will happen.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
Yeah, seems hard to imagine at this point that something's
going to break in the case.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
One thing that is really a head scratch is there's
so many things in this case head scratchers, but there's
absolutely no motive. I mean, I was really well loved
by everyone, and I don't think whatever happened Joe Dylan
and Hylan, Joe Victor and Dylan had no intent on
him dying. Yeah, Robert's sexuality has been greatly speculated on,

(01:02:50):
which I think is so disrespectful to his wife and
his family. Yeah, he supported the gay community, but he
was never known to have had any Yeah, relationship.

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
And he and Joe had been friends for a long time,
so it's really not there's nothing weird about going and
staying at a friend's house or whatever, just because that
friend's gay, and you're not right.

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
It was just and there's just the lack of blood
evidence is mad.

Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
Yeah, that's just so baffling. You said something about the
kidaver dogs they hit on like a spot on the patio,
like a drain on the patio.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
Well, I'm curious about That's what we need to talk about,
is like what could have happened? What do you think
could have happened?

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
I am I have no idea. I really can't even imagine,
Like I can't imagine there's no motive to kill him,
like you said, if they were playing some sort of
weird game or something. I just can't even imagine what
that would be like.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
So every time I've heard this case, people talk about like, well,
he came into the house at ten thirty. They didn't drink,
and he was really the only talked for like fifteen
to twenty minutes. Dylan gave him a glass of water.
Dylan's like, oh, here's a glass of water. I'm wondering
how long it takes for paralytics to work. If there
could have been something in his watery maybe people also

(01:04:04):
talk about the needle pricks, but and in my unexpert
I don't know anything opinion. I think those were probably
from the IVY because they they had said that, you know,
he was already he'd already probably been dead for quite
a while when they were trying to establish an IVY line,
so of course they weren't going to be able to
get it right. But they tried in many different locations,

(01:04:26):
and one of them was like the elbow, the neck,
I think, and probably I know people are gonna yell
at me for this, but like between your toes, I
think you can get one, and like behind your So
those are the locations where the pin pricks, where the
needle pricks were, So I think that's what those were.
But people have also talked about maybe he was given
ketamine in his water because ketamine like can also produce paralysis.

(01:04:52):
I don't know if it was Dylan and Joe or
just Dylan or just Joe. I really I just had
like a little bit of soft spot for Victor. He
just seems yeah, I mean, it's very I don't think
that he knew what was happening.

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
Yeah, sure doesn't seem like it, but you know, I
know you can only people can can be good actors.
But just his nine when one call and the interrogation,
I just it just seems very authentic.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
It did, and who knows what he knows.

Speaker 3 (01:05:18):
Now.

Speaker 1 (01:05:20):
I believe that he and Joe are still together. And
I don't know if I could sleep next to someone
yeah every night if I doubted no innocence. So Joe
and Dylan were kind of known to always be looking
for like a new adventure or a new sexual partner.
So I believe it's possible that the two of them
could have done something together because remember Victor took a

(01:05:43):
sleeping pill, yeah, and he could have been out cold,
although he said he remembered waking up with Joe next
to him, so maybe the encounter somehow went wrong. Just
why he would be stabbed I can't either.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
I mean, the only thing I could think of is
if they drugged him for some whatever reason, and like
maybe he died from the drugs or something, and then
they stabbed him, But the autopsy showed that he died
from the stab wounds.

Speaker 1 (01:06:09):
Though, right, maybe he wasn't conscious and they got scared.

Speaker 7 (01:06:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:13):
Maybe it's really frustrating because if we don't, we just
don't know how the answer.

Speaker 2 (01:06:19):
Yeah, and the lack of the blood, it's just it's
so baffling to me.

Speaker 1 (01:06:22):
That's okay, that's one thing that we needed to talk about.
I think that they took Robert into the shower and
they cleaned off his wounds, because the wounds real and
I don't know if that part was planned, but the
wounds really small enough. I'm sure they bled profusely, but
once you know, he passed, they were able to clean
him up.

Speaker 5 (01:06:39):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:06:40):
Then they took the bedding and the towels and even
Robert's clothing and they took them off to the patio
and they hose them off, okay, and then they must
have dried them in the dryer, which again is why
the dog alerted on the dryer. And then they redressed Robert,
remade the bed, and then they called one. I think

(01:07:00):
that it was probably Joe and Dylan were in it together.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
Yeah, that seems like the most plausible.

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
Or it could have been Dylan on his own.

Speaker 5 (01:07:09):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
I also kind of think that I didn't play any
of Dylan's interrogation. He was His interrogation was similar to Victor's,
where he didn't say a whole lot he was. He
was emotional. So one other thing that I wanted to
mention was that Sarah Morgan, the fourth roommate, she really

(01:07:31):
she was talked to, but she wasn't really investigated. So
Sarah wasn't just a roommate. She was actually very close
friends with the three men. She and Victor were especially close,
and it was said that Sarah was kind of like
Victor's eyes and ears when he wasn't in the house.

(01:07:52):
And I think that at at one point Dylan had
said to someone that he was going to replace Victor
and Sarah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
She was keeping an eye out in an eye out.

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
And so Victor came home that afternoon from Denver, and
I think his work trip was cut short. So you
have to ask yourself why did he come home early.
Sarah was away that night, and the way I understand
it is she Joe said in his interrogation, Oh, sometimes
she spent the night away with other friends. No, she didn't.

(01:08:26):
That was the first time she had ever been away.
That's interesting, So that was kind of interesting too. But
I if they told her to go, like, I don't
think she was complicit. I don't think she knew what
was going to happen, right.

Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
I'm just wondering if she was questioned, did she give
any explanation why.

Speaker 1 (01:08:41):
I don't have any information about Sarah's questioning, but there
does seem like there was just kind of this dynamic,
an unhealthy dynamic between the three men, and maybe Dylan
was well. Obviously Dylan was jockeying for Victor's position, right.
Joe's brother, Michael, We mentioned him and how he had

(01:09:03):
a history of drug abuse, Yeah, and Joe bailed him
out a lot. Joe, I think, I'm not sure if
we made this clear, but he was very good at
what he did. He was a very good talker, he
was a very good lawyer, and he defended his brother
many times. So his brother owed him. So it's possible.
I think that Michael could have come and taken the

(01:09:24):
murder weapon bloody towels that they used for cleaning, and
he could have maybe taken them away from the house.
I should mention too, that the men's cars were searched, so, like,
you know, you have to wonder, like where did they
hide right, because obviously they cleaned the house up with something,
so either Michael could have come and gotten it or
I don't know where else it could have gone.

Speaker 2 (01:09:45):
Yeah, and you said Michael was a phlebotomist, right.

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
Right, and that's yeah, they could have gotten a drug
from him.

Speaker 2 (01:09:51):
Yeah, I just seem, yeah, I don't know. The whole
thing with the blood and everything just makes me wonder
if there's some connection there with him being a phlebotomist also.
But it's it's very baffling.

Speaker 1 (01:10:01):
It's very baffling. This case could be my roman umpire.
I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to
give it up. Yeah. I use some fabulous sources that
I'd like to mention. There is a blog called Who
Killed Robert wand dot com. It was made by four men.
It's a podcaster's dream or an investigator's dream, has like

(01:10:24):
literally everything you could want, like a treasure trove of information,
and they did a fabulous job. David Greer, Craig Ronstein,
his partner, Doug Johnson, and Michael Kremen. Sadly the latter
two are now deceased. But it's just a really great
source and they're really great funny guys. I watched like

(01:10:45):
a two hour YouTube from Judy Judy the YouTube lawyer
a legal AA Legal Focus. The three of them had
a really great conversation that some of the theory that
they talked about, all the theories and it was really
I will link to that and you should. If you're
not able to give this case up like me, you

(01:11:06):
would enjoy that conversation. And there's also a Peacock, a
two part Peacock documentary that I think I'm gonna I
think you would enjoy. I would watch it again. It
was really well done.

Speaker 2 (01:11:19):
Yeah, I would like to say it I'm who killed.

Speaker 1 (01:11:21):
Robert One, That's what it's called. And again it's on Peacock.
And we have a lot of streaming services and we
probably don't need all of them, but Peacock for me
is just I won't give up Peacock. I can give
up Netflix.

Speaker 2 (01:11:35):
And it's funny we subscribed to it like a few
years ago when the Olympics were going on, and it's actually, yeah,
it's been pretty good.

Speaker 1 (01:11:41):
Well for me, especially with being a Bravo holic. Soh yeah,
I will not give up Peacock anytime soon. But they
do do a nice job.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
It's great for dateline too. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:50):
Yeah, yeah, So that is the horrible story of Robert One.
Horribly sad story of Robert One.

Speaker 2 (01:11:57):
Yeah, really sad. Great job telling it, man. Definitely you
weren't lying when you said it was one of the
most baffling cases up front. I mean, it really seems
like at least Dylan and Joe had something to do
with it, but it just is very confusing what actually happened.

Speaker 3 (01:12:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:16):
The only way we're ever going to know what happened
is if one of the men have a moment of
good conscience and come forward, yeah and say, you know
what their involvement was.

Speaker 3 (01:12:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:28):
Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like that's going to happen, and
doesn't seem like there's ever going to be justice for Robert.

Speaker 1 (01:12:33):
Well rest in peace, Robert.

Speaker 3 (01:12:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:35):
Again, just sounds like a really lovely man. Thank you
so much for listening to this episode of Love Mary Kill.

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
Please rate, review, follow and subscribe, find us on social media,
or send us an email at Lovemarykill at gmail dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:12:55):
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Speaker 2 (01:13:05):
Join us next Monday for another episode of Love Mary
Kill