July 21, 2023 • 29 mins
When it comes to a couple living together without being married, India has seen a lot of change. What used to be taboo is now gaining more acceptance, especially with Gen Z. In this episode, Evelyn talks to actress Ashlesha Savant, and her partner, actor Sandeep Baswana, who have been living-in for fifteen years. They talk about why they decided to go the live-in route, and how it’s shaped their love for each other. They also reflect on the attitudes of their families and society towards living-in, in India today.
Evelyn Sharma's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/evelyn_sharma/
Sandeep Baswana: https://www.instagram.com/baswanasandeep/
Ashlesha Savant: https://www.instagram.com/ashleshasavant/?hl=en
Produced by: Axel Scheele, Sally McGrane
Research & guest acquisition: Sana Rizvi
Sound Engineer: Gerd Georgii
Project Manager: Sonja Kaun-Trenkler
Editorial Support: Shashank Bhargava, Anant Nath Sharma, Khyati Rajvanshi
Executive Producer: Melanie von Marschalck, DW Life & Style
Evelyn Sharma's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/evelyn_sharma/
Sandeep Baswana: https://www.instagram.com/baswanasandeep/
Ashlesha Savant: https://www.instagram.com/ashleshasavant/?hl=en
Produced by: Axel Scheele, Sally McGrane
Research & guest acquisition: Sana Rizvi
Sound Engineer: Gerd Georgii
Project Manager: Sonja Kaun-Trenkler
Editorial Support: Shashank Bhargava, Anant Nath Sharma, Khyati Rajvanshi
Executive Producer: Melanie von Marschalck, DW Life & Style
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
We just did not promise each otherour tomorrow's because we don't know what's going
to happen tomorrow. We both arevery spiritual people, so we just don't
want to We don't know what's goingto happen tomorrow. But we have together
now, so in a way,we never found time to just book a
place and get married. When itcomes to a couple living together without being
(00:25):
married, India has seen a lotof change. What used to be a
taboo is now well maybe not soshocking anymore. So what are the benefits
to living together without getting married firstand how do society's attitudes affect couples who
go this route. Hi, I'mEveline Sharma and you're listening to Love Matters,
(00:52):
a podcast about relationship issues that matterto you and me. Today,
we have two great guests, actressShlesha Savant and her partner, actors son
Deep Basbana. Back in two thousandand two, they met and fell in
love on the set of a TVshow. Instead of getting married, they
decided on a live in relationship.Now they've been living in for more than
(01:15):
fifteen years, something that's gaining acceptancein India, but still isn't commonplace.
Welcome to the show, Ashleicia andSandee. It's so great to have you
on the podcast. Thank you somuch. Aliens great to be here too.
Hi Evelyn, thank you so much. I'm so looking forward to hearing
all about your living journey. Tellme the little love story of how you
(01:38):
guys met. Okay, so I'lltake this one. See as we met
on the sets of it was mysecond show, it was her first show.
And yeah, we both were,you know, learning how to act.
At the same time, we alsowere learning how to live in Mumbai
because you're both were fairly you know, young and very new to Mumba.
(02:00):
Where did you guys come from?I come from North India, a state
called Haryana, and Shlesha comes frombecause her father was in Air Force,
so she has also been traveling allover India, so I think she's but
mostly she stayed in Pune, whichis in Marshta, very close to Mumbai,
so that used to be posted allover the country. So I've seen
(02:23):
like parts of west, east,south, North India, and I think
growing up having that kind of aninfluence definitely had a huge impact on who
I am as a person. Today. It kind of shaped me because while
growing up we had a very cosmopolitankind of upbringing. Parents were highly liberal.
(02:43):
I mean it wasn't like my motherwas very strict or my father you
know, didn't allow us to dothings. But at the same time there
was a balance. But yes,we could speak to them. And I
remember telling my mother, I think, way back in two thousand, when
I was probably fourteen fifteen years old, just like in India, this whole
term called living in had she started. I mean, people were talking about
(03:05):
it and one didn't know what itmeant. And I remember, this is
actually a true story. I toldmy mother, I said, May I'm
not going to get married, I'mgoing to live in. And I didn't
know what he was saying. Asa child, I had no clue.
I didn't know what it means.So deep these qualities of um Ashleicia attracted
to her. Is that what madeyou fall for her? No? Actually,
(03:27):
you know what, I don't thinkwe both fell for each other.
You know, I don't think thatever happened. You know, we just
were tooting together and then we justwere like, no, I don't know
when you started dating, and Idon't know when she started visiting my house
and then one day she came andwith her bag. She never left,
you know, no, but youknow what I think, I will.
(03:51):
I think it's a chick thing.I think women have girls have better memory
of how it started, what shewas, what he was wearing, when
she was wearing. That's right,I see, I do remember this that
I when I met him. SoI don't know if i'm I think to
go do. But he was hewas a bachelor, right, he was
(04:11):
this new guy, uh in thetelevision industry, and you know, everyone
was like, who's this cute lookingboy from naught? And he had his
own squag so there were a lotof girls who really used to love him
a lot. Obviously. He wasalso let's not call him a Casinoma body.
He was a bratty brad, acute little boy. And I remember
I remember he was you know,he thought that I'm this because I was
(04:34):
very gawky. I remember I wasseventeen, sixteen, seventeen and a half
eighteen were gowky. I was agowfy looking teenager. I really hadn't turned
into a blossomed into what I lookedtoday obviously, But yeah, there was
this awkwardness and and very not soconfident small town girl. So he always
used to think that, you know, this girl really needs to grow up.
She doesn't know what the hell she'sdoing. So, yes, I'm
(04:56):
deep. I'm not older to you. We have a gap of six years,
yeah yeah, six yeah. Sobut yeah, but he was more
he was he was more world Levis. I mean, come on, when
I first met him, the onlymovie I've seen was Baby's Day Out.
And here, I mean this guywho's talking about on the Waterfront and he's
talking about like all the movies thathe's probably seen and I didn't even know
(05:18):
who the hell is Robert and Arrow. So you know when I thank Sunday
if it was like it was educationfor me. For me, it was
like there's this guy who who's notjust good looking, but he's stimulating,
stimulating as well in terms of howhe speaks, what he thinks. And
he was very unlike the television menof that time. I mean they were
(05:40):
all into, like, you know, going to the gym, and and
here was this guy who was likevery world Levi. So he was like
a breath of fresh pressure for meat least. So you decided one day
with your suit ka, this istoo good. But that's actually true because
Lego, she used to come visitme like that. She used to come
come a place because she used tolive with her sister. I used to
(06:01):
live alone, so she used toso she used to come, you know,
visit me. And one day shegave me her bags and she just
didn't leave. I realized that afterafter month and a half. But this
girl is not going and and andit's okay, you know, I don't
mind it. I don't mind ittoo. I don't think you would have
(06:21):
minded. So that's what that was. That was shocking from me too because
I didn't mind it. Yeah,I didn't mind it. So the two
of you became sort of flatmates thatwere romantically involved too. And when did
you realize, m this is thisis really good. We could continue doing
(06:43):
this. Um when did it getmore serious between the two of people.
I'll take that first, because Ithink I was. I was shooting with
him and we weren't seeing each other. I'm not I've not even shifted in
with him. We were just likecoactors and we used to have fun on
the sets and like you know,gel with the rest of the cast and
basically go to parties together. ButI don't remember this one particular scene you
(07:06):
were doing and he was standing andhe was he had a lot of pain,
back pain that back then he hadto lift me in the scene.
And I was trying to tell himthat, listen, I don't want you
to do that right now. Letlet the director say action and then you
do it. And he's like,no, just come here, just come
and climb on this and just andthe way he was screaming and shouting.
I just looked at him now likeI think I'm in love with this guy?
What is it about him? AndI for me, it was that.
(07:28):
And obviously I didn't I didn't knowlah blah blah bla whatever, but
I did. I did realize that, yes, this person has something in
him that just makes my world goaround, and I ceased to see anything
beyond him. It's just him,that sweet sentie. Ye're gonna tell me
it's still not serious or what's here? Listen? Why why does it have
(07:55):
to be serious? I don't understand. You know, you know, see
we we had too, so like, no, who are visiting this uh
this planet? You know? Whymake anything serious? And you know what
the reason for me enjoying this livingrelationship or going for it is because you
cannot promise anybody your future. Youcan only promise somebody your present. I
(08:15):
wonder what people said, like especiallyI guess your family and friends because they
always have a thousand opinions, andI guess parents always wished it one day.
You know, Oh, my childrenshould be safe because they associate safety
with marriage and you know children,grandchildren with marriage. And um, they
(08:37):
terribly disappointed that this is not,you know, in the cards for them
or is that still something that youyou know, consider if it happens,
it happens, or um, what'syour take on you know, family planning
and living together. Um, Ithink it's been fifteen years, hasn't it.
Yeah, it's you because for somedeeper no. But but see I
(09:07):
but unlike Assha's family, my familyis very orthodox, you know, my
family is like no, I comefrom a village, you know my family.
So they obviously like no for them, like not to see their child,
like now having a living relationship,not going for a marriage, not
having like children. For them,it's a it's a big deal and they
just didn't understand it and they hadto. But at the same time,
(09:28):
I was very you know, confidentof living my life the way I want
because I don't want to uh,you know, I don't want to do
something just because other people are doingit. Absolutely, And how did you
come to this conviction? Because ifyou say that you grew up in fairly
conservative and you know, um,maybe even slightly backwards village, Um,
(09:54):
how did you become so worldly?And how did you get these other ideas
even that there is a different wayof living? Yea, by not taking
any decisions in life. Just letlife happen to me, you know,
I just yeah, I see,I didn't know when I like, No,
it's not that I had planned tohave a girlfriend. Ashlsha came in,
(10:16):
yea. She never left Alicia Ashlicia, she came in. We we
she she taught me how to love. You know, it's not that she
because she was so she was soloving, so so and I was and
I was open to it. Iwanted to correct myself, you know,
I wanted to see, like,no, how can life become better?
And she she really helped me doit. And then we fell in We
(10:41):
fell in love and then we kindof but we just did not want to
do things just because other people,because we've I've also seen a lot of
bad marriages, you know, I'vealso seen a lot of bad bad companionship.
It's hardly companionship. It's just twopeople are together just for the sake
of it. I know, let'sbe honest. It's a fifty fifteen,
(11:01):
isn't it. When I walked intohis world, all I felt was contentment
in peace. There was never thismoment where I felt that I, as
a human being or a girl,I'm not safe. I need something more
to make me feel safe in thisrelationship. I still remember in the beginning
years of our relationship, I thinkmaybe seven or eight months into our relationship,
(11:22):
there is to be boys night out, and here was some weep.
He would take me everywhere, andthe boys would be but why are you
getting a girlfriend? And he'd belike, but she's my girlfriend. She's
gonna be wherever I am. There'sno boys night out. Now she's there
and she's everywhere. And I lookedat him and I was like, and
I was like, oh, whodoes that? I saw girls who were
being cheated on at the age ofseventeen, eighteen nineteen, and here was
(11:45):
this guy who only promised me heretoday, and he's complete today. Complete
from the time I wake up inthe morning till the time I sleep,
he is there with his presence andhis utmost presence. And that that was
something that I was not just attractedto. I just knew this is this
is normal. This is hey,I mean people, people maybe getting diamond
(12:09):
rings and they may be getting thewedding, but hey, this is not
normal. This is something else atonce. No, but if you but
if you actually see you know,Evelyn, like, no, what this
is marriage? Right? This iswhat you call marriage right that it wants
to be working a good relationship.We've just we just don't involved people.
Marriage is like two people living together. They're making a life together. So
(12:31):
that actually is if you've just notinvolved people, you've just not involved government
and you're not you know, signedthat paper. Otherwise, this is how
marriage should be. Two people veryloving will come to the league guarantees in
a bit. But it's nice tosee that, you know, how happy
the two of you are in this. And I'm sure that's what convinced your
(12:54):
family and friends that hey, ifit works for them, you know it'll
work for us, because what theywant sees their children happy in the end.
Um, what what's the other theother? You know, opinion,
the public opinion on your relationship.Do you get to hear some things on
social media nowadays or did the mediaever write about Oh my god, it's
(13:18):
it's been so long. We've seenpeople change their opinions and how the two
of us have lived and being togetherbecause they'reout friends who will tell us,
oh, you guys need to getmarried. Why are you doing this?
Why are you living this? Whatabout your security is? What about this?
Those same the same couple or thosesame people today they'll ask, you
know, it's so good you guysdidn't marry because now we see the true
(13:39):
love. We see the true love, and twenty years later they've already gotten
the yes. Yes, the secondmarriage. Yeah yeah, well well obviously
not all marriages divorce. I'm notsaying yeah, you know, it's I
think for me personally, it's that, like you said, at something,
(14:00):
that relationship that you nurture, andwhether it's married or not, that's not
really the the factor that should makeyou stay together. Love companions two people,
and two people have to be twopeople have to be smart enough to
know that they should be together onlytill the time love is you know.
(14:22):
And then as kids, when youhear about these virtues, when your children
you hear about these silent virtues likepatients, love, trust, kindness,
honesty. You know, these virtuesactually means something. They're the basis of
everything. They're the basis of yourbeing. So today, if somebody gives,
like I remember a couple of yearsback times and when they want to
do an interview when we were speakingabout our relationship after a gap of I
(14:46):
mean, you've never spoken about it, and they were very they wanted to
do an article and some they've saidsomething and I quote he said that,
you know, tomorrow fflshall find someoneand she falls in love, I'll be
very happy for her. And youknow what, it's this rock solid mess
of this human being and this honestyof this human peoples. And I do
know because it works with me alsotomorrow, if I see that, all
(15:07):
I want, all I all Iwant from the universe is this human being,
this person, this man. Mygoodness, you guys are so passionate
about each other. It's okay,it's your sacred space when you're together.
(15:33):
And I think, yeah, that'sthat's super beautiful and it's worth preserving well.
In each episode of our Love Matterspodcast, our team puts together some
statistics about today's topic. So let'slook at some facts and figures when it
comes to attitudes towards living together inIndia. Indian Express reports that, according
(15:58):
to a recent paul, more thaneighty percent of millennials perceive living relationships to
be taboo in Indian society. Morethan forty seven percent of all Indians believe
marriage is preferable to lifelong livings.However, the same paul found that more
than eighty percent of Indians do supportlivings as a way of life. Twenty
six percent of millennials went a stepfurther, saying they would choose a lifelong
(16:22):
living relationship over marriage. What doyou guys think? How is it that?
Well, it says that eighty percentof millennials still perceive a living relationship
as a taboo in Indian society,so they think that society does not accept
it. However, they do supportlive ins as a way of life,
(16:45):
So definitely there's a change in societywhich or maybe even a misconception that it's
still a table, but actually it'spretty accepted now what do you guys think
I would listen, I would Iwould say if not, if not,
(17:07):
like now, what for the forthe for the generations right now, for
the future generation, if not livingtogether at least living together for some time
before marriage you know at least no, at least no that you know that
are you compatible or not? Becausejust get because in India what happens like
now you have like two three meetingsbefore your marriage and then you're put together
(17:30):
for life. You know, thecompatibility that's a whole different story. So
but but you see, but yousee that's that's that's how the marriages are
in India. The other extreme.Yeah, but that's if you leave the
metros out and if even in metros, like know what people who are like
no that they is the websites likeno, the marriage websites and stuff.
(17:53):
They also meet like your two threetimes they meet and then they're together.
And then in in COVID times becausemy my father was a judge and my
brother is a judge, and mybrother was in family court. So he
was saying there was so many divorcecases during COVID because people actually didn't go
out and they were spending so muchof time together in a flat and they
(18:15):
just could not, you know,take each other. They just could not,
like not bear each other. Yeah, I think I would have probably
the worst everybody too. Yeah,I don't know the fact legal position in
India. Maybe you know it better. It is it is, Yeah,
of course it is. It isa legal thing. I mean, if
you're having to staying together you work, yes, you considered to be married.
(18:41):
But even if you say you livetogether for ten years and then you
know your your husband leaves you,which is the You know, you're asking
all the right questions. Yeah,you're asking all the right questions. And
in terms of security, I think, I mean, it's it's fine.
You know, you your love andyou your sing, spiritual or whatever.
It's all fine. It's all fine. That's also a way of life.
(19:03):
But when it comes to being practicalizingthese questions make so much more sense.
Having said that, I think thetwo people involved, Step and I both
I can only speak for ourselves.And you know I have been working since
the age of seventeen. He's beenworking since when he was twing two years
old, and the two of ushave realized that no matter what you do
in life, no matter how securityyou are. Especially in our as actors,
(19:26):
there's nothing that you call security,because there's a time when you're working
and there's a time you're not working. And having seen that personally for ourselves
individually, I'm not Let's just sayhis professional life is very different than mine.
The shows that I do and hedoes. You there are times when
you're working and there are times you'renot working. You understand what security really
(19:48):
means. There's nothing that's actually guaranteedfor life. There is nothing that's guaranteed
for life. I guess the securitycomes in because in the end, you
know, I mean, I feelit myself. The woman is the one
who bears the children. I guessa lot of women find it's scary to
fully commit to someone who doesn't wantto fully commit to them in a legal
(20:11):
manner, I suppose, and Imean take our take on this whole thing,
would leg to make it legal.You know, the thing is,
we've never we've never ever spoken aboutthis. It may sound very funny and
make me look very stupid, nothim, but me for sure as a
girl that I've not never even spokenand they've never never even thought about it.
(20:32):
No, it's not like I've nevereven spoken about it. But now
when the conversation arises and we talkabout it, it's mainly for our parents.
I want his parents to be happythey're old. I want my mother
to be happy she's old. Iwant them to know that. All right,
eventually these guys are going to getmarried, and we want to make
them happy. We want to dothat ceremony for them. We want to
(20:53):
see and seek their blessing because nowwe do see their side of the story.
While we were young and we weredoing our own thing and living as
rebel as wanting to do what wewanted to do, we did that.
And today when we see them givetheir whole lives to us and sacrifice so
much for us, and today whenwe have that sensibility, the conversation that
arises to marry is only and onlyfor those parents, because I only deserve
(21:17):
that what we wanted to do putdown. But now like that, because
they've they've also seen, Like theykeep telling us, like you already bad.
You guys did together all the timetogether, Yeah, you guys,
yeah, you see this, Likewhat is the problem signing a document?
You know, just sign it?No, we've just we've just dealt with
life so ganically that like when westarted dating then we started living in together,
(21:42):
we just did not take any decision. We just don't think. We
just did not promise each other ourtomorrows because we don't know what's going to
happen tomorrow. We both are veryspiritual people, so we just don't want
to We don't know what's going tohappen tomorrow. But we are together now,
so in a way, we neverfound time to just book a place
and get married. If she hadinsisted, like you know, if she
(22:07):
had ever insisted that I want awedding and I want to you know that
can you can you give me?I would have given her. Yeah,
well no, I don't know.You know. It's like I'm sorry,
I'm gonna bloat, and I don'twant to be lad. I don't want
like bullying, bullied as this likebad evil eye on this when I say
this. But honestly, I justfeel that if once in a lifetime you
(22:27):
get to experience being totally consumed bythe person that you love so much so
that there is just no space leftfor you to think about anything, any
technicality, any practicality, anything thatthe world is telling you, and you're
just so consumed with this thing.I feel that, I mean, I
(22:48):
feel it's a blessing. And Ilived with that. And that's why I
never asked him. I never toldhim that I want to get married and
I want to buy this and thisshould be by wed wedding. True,
so, and this is where weneed to do a wedding. And what
are we going to tell your family? Are they going to come around?
It was never a conversation in myhead. I was way more consumed with
a lot, more loved than receiving. Yeah, it's not. It doesn't
(23:10):
give a license to flirt around andyou know, just have multiple partners and
no, no, it's not that. It's it's much more serious. You're
not involving, you're not involving peoplein your marriage. But it is your
it is it is a commitment frominsight that we will be together till the
time love is there. But youknow what happens even sometimes you know what,
even if you have purest of intentions, love does leave a couple.
(23:34):
Sometimes you know there's something happened thatthe love leaves and you have to be
smart enough to understand that the lovehas left us. It's better to part
ways rather than giving each other help, you know, or rather just being
sticking together just because we we wewe promised each other or we're committed to
each other. No, you haveyou're committed. You're committed for each other's
happiness. You're not committed for youknow, to give each other company for
(23:57):
for life. So you have tobe smart enough to understand that that there
is no it's better to part plays. You can have other mello, you
can go for somebody else like wewill be friends forever. Yeah. Well,
that's very interesting view on relationship.I guess. I guess people have
different views on this kind of relationshipbecause for me, I would love,
(24:22):
you know, to believe that mypartner and I, even if we're not
you know, crazy and love anymoreone day, we still want to be
best friends and kind of you know, to life together. Yea. And
yeah, I guess it's all aboutthe way you want to plan your future
as well. Yeah, I guessit's I guess that's really no recipe to
(24:44):
this, right, I mean,And at the end of it, it's
it's your individual unique blessing you wereborn, but it's your destiny. It's
how you choose to. I thinklove and marriage and I think your life.
It's it's it's the luxury to designit by yourself. That's the luxury
and beauty of it. Right.If you're in love, you you have
the luxury to love the way youwant to love. If you are living
your life, you have the luxuryand the benefit to design the way you
(25:07):
want it. It's your life.At the end of the day, if
you're happy and you're sleeping, usuallywhat do you And I guess it's all
about finding a partner that wants asimilar lifestyle as you. But question,
do you guys come from the samereligious backgrounds or yes? Yes, yes,
yes, so to say yes,But I don't know if you'd call
(25:30):
it religion. But you know whatwhen everyone you were telling me about you
know, the way you how youthink about what a partnership and a relationshipship
should be, Like I do.I do believe that when you get married
and when you're standing there all deckedup and you see your husband, you
know, tradition, does it steepsin? It seeps in it? Does
it? Does you know if there'ssomething about that ritual, there's something about
(25:53):
that custom. It's just so ageold as an institution that I mean,
there has to be utmost respect towardsit. There's a reason that it's day.
I would never say that I'm livingin so you know, screw you
guys, Okay, I'm living init. I'm happy, I'm in love.
You guys, you are the badguys. You fight in your marriage.
No, that's not mad, didude? Here is that? You know
(26:15):
what? It's all beautiful, It'sall it's all lovely. There's a reason
you're getting married. You want toannounce your love to the world. You
want people to know that you're inlove. And that's beautiful. What you
say that, you guys are justreally lucky that you found each other and
you wanted the same thing about life. Uh see, I think you know
what God? God, God isa friend. You know, God is
(26:37):
not a so God always, likeno, gives you the best thing that
is possible for you. But ifyou accept it, if you don't,
if you then you you do realizethat everybody is lucky. But it's just
that just because you start to youknow, accept few things, reject a
few things, and then you Idon't know, I think I'm going too
far with my spiritual yet but no, But I think I think one thing
(27:03):
that sund Deep has already always taughtme, one thing that I remember,
you know, and he's always saidthese five five words make a huge impact
on your life. He's always toldme it's acceptance, it's surrender, it's
understanding and totally totally uh totally totallymaking it your own being being in the
being. It becomes your being.Once all these things come in place,
you just with it. You justwith it. There's no separation from because
(27:29):
if you if you actually don't ifyou don't plan anything, if you actually
your mind is empty, you knowwhat, you are full of love,
you know you are. But thenyou don't have to choose to love you.
You love everything and everybody. Andof course, like you know,
my partner is like no, theone who's with me, like no,
hobously I'm gonna do, I'm gonnado no love her and you know,
emper her and like no, justmake sure that she has the best best
(27:52):
things in a life. But notnot deciding to do it, not not
choosing to do it, just letit happen, let it all happen on
anything. So you're a very umpassively embracing life. Yes, yes,
yes, yes, yes, that'sa beautiful meat, especially India, especionately
Legland. Just accepting everything. It'sa very new way of life, the
(28:17):
doablest way of life, saying inthe wind and it will all ye kind
of go. Well, that's beautifulnow. I'm so so happy for you,
guys, and I wish everyone tofind the kind of love that you
have. Um and yeah, Iwish you all the best, guys,
Thank you, thank you. Yeah, let's see where life takes us.
(28:37):
And Evelyn, you are very toocute and God bless you always may be
so cute and pretty and may orBabby as cute and pretty and lots and
lots of love to you and yourhusbands, all the very best. I
have a wonderful time and I havea very beautiful Thank you so much,
Thank you, guys, thank you, thank you. Well you've been listening
(29:00):
to Love Matters, a podcast aboutrelationship topics that matter to you and me
from Indian Express and DW, Germany'sinternational broadcaster. If there's a topic that
is important to you and you thinkwe should cover it, please write to
Love Matters at DW dot com.I'm em Lynn Sharma and I think love
(29:22):
matters. No,
We just did not promise each otherour tomorrow's because we don't know what's going
to happen tomorrow. We both arevery spiritual people, so we just don't
want to We don't know what's goingto happen tomorrow. But we have together
now, so in a way,we never found time to just book a
place and get married. When itcomes to a couple living together without being
(00:25):
married, India has seen a lotof change. What used to be a
taboo is now well maybe not soshocking anymore. So what are the benefits
to living together without getting married firstand how do society's attitudes affect couples who
go this route. Hi, I'mEveline Sharma and you're listening to Love Matters,
(00:52):
a podcast about relationship issues that matterto you and me. Today,
we have two great guests, actressShlesha Savant and her partner, actors son
Deep Basbana. Back in two thousandand two, they met and fell in
love on the set of a TVshow. Instead of getting married, they
decided on a live in relationship.Now they've been living in for more than
(01:15):
fifteen years, something that's gaining acceptancein India, but still isn't commonplace.
Welcome to the show, Ashleicia andSandee. It's so great to have you
on the podcast. Thank you somuch. Aliens great to be here too.
Hi Evelyn, thank you so much. I'm so looking forward to hearing
all about your living journey. Tellme the little love story of how you
(01:38):
guys met. Okay, so I'lltake this one. See as we met
on the sets of it was mysecond show, it was her first show.
And yeah, we both were,you know, learning how to act.
At the same time, we alsowere learning how to live in Mumbai
because you're both were fairly you know, young and very new to Mumba.
(02:00):
Where did you guys come from?I come from North India, a state
called Haryana, and Shlesha comes frombecause her father was in Air Force,
so she has also been traveling allover India, so I think she's but
mostly she stayed in Pune, whichis in Marshta, very close to Mumbai,
so that used to be posted allover the country. So I've seen
(02:23):
like parts of west, east,south, North India, and I think
growing up having that kind of aninfluence definitely had a huge impact on who
I am as a person. Today. It kind of shaped me because while
growing up we had a very cosmopolitankind of upbringing. Parents were highly liberal.
(02:43):
I mean it wasn't like my motherwas very strict or my father you
know, didn't allow us to dothings. But at the same time there
was a balance. But yes,we could speak to them. And I
remember telling my mother, I think, way back in two thousand, when
I was probably fourteen fifteen years old, just like in India, this whole
term called living in had she started. I mean, people were talking about
(03:05):
it and one didn't know what itmeant. And I remember, this is
actually a true story. I toldmy mother, I said, May I'm
not going to get married, I'mgoing to live in. And I didn't
know what he was saying. Asa child, I had no clue.
I didn't know what it means.So deep these qualities of um Ashleicia attracted
to her. Is that what madeyou fall for her? No? Actually,
(03:27):
you know what, I don't thinkwe both fell for each other.
You know, I don't think thatever happened. You know, we just
were tooting together and then we justwere like, no, I don't know
when you started dating, and Idon't know when she started visiting my house
and then one day she came andwith her bag. She never left,
you know, no, but youknow what I think, I will.
(03:51):
I think it's a chick thing.I think women have girls have better memory
of how it started, what shewas, what he was wearing, when
she was wearing. That's right,I see, I do remember this that
I when I met him. SoI don't know if i'm I think to
go do. But he was hewas a bachelor, right, he was
(04:11):
this new guy, uh in thetelevision industry, and you know, everyone
was like, who's this cute lookingboy from naught? And he had his
own squag so there were a lotof girls who really used to love him
a lot. Obviously. He wasalso let's not call him a Casinoma body.
He was a bratty brad, acute little boy. And I remember
I remember he was you know,he thought that I'm this because I was
(04:34):
very gawky. I remember I wasseventeen, sixteen, seventeen and a half
eighteen were gowky. I was agowfy looking teenager. I really hadn't turned
into a blossomed into what I lookedtoday obviously, But yeah, there was
this awkwardness and and very not soconfident small town girl. So he always
used to think that, you know, this girl really needs to grow up.
She doesn't know what the hell she'sdoing. So, yes, I'm
(04:56):
deep. I'm not older to you. We have a gap of six years,
yeah yeah, six yeah. Sobut yeah, but he was more
he was he was more world Levis. I mean, come on, when
I first met him, the onlymovie I've seen was Baby's Day Out.
And here, I mean this guywho's talking about on the Waterfront and he's
talking about like all the movies thathe's probably seen and I didn't even know
(05:18):
who the hell is Robert and Arrow. So you know when I thank Sunday
if it was like it was educationfor me. For me, it was
like there's this guy who who's notjust good looking, but he's stimulating,
stimulating as well in terms of howhe speaks, what he thinks. And
he was very unlike the television menof that time. I mean they were
(05:40):
all into, like, you know, going to the gym, and and
here was this guy who was likevery world Levi. So he was like
a breath of fresh pressure for meat least. So you decided one day
with your suit ka, this istoo good. But that's actually true because
Lego, she used to come visitme like that. She used to come
come a place because she used tolive with her sister. I used to
(06:01):
live alone, so she used toso she used to come, you know,
visit me. And one day shegave me her bags and she just
didn't leave. I realized that afterafter month and a half. But this
girl is not going and and andit's okay, you know, I don't
mind it. I don't mind ittoo. I don't think you would have
(06:21):
minded. So that's what that was. That was shocking from me too because
I didn't mind it. Yeah,I didn't mind it. So the two
of you became sort of flatmates thatwere romantically involved too. And when did
you realize, m this is thisis really good. We could continue doing
(06:43):
this. Um when did it getmore serious between the two of people.
I'll take that first, because Ithink I was. I was shooting with
him and we weren't seeing each other. I'm not I've not even shifted in
with him. We were just likecoactors and we used to have fun on
the sets and like you know,gel with the rest of the cast and
basically go to parties together. ButI don't remember this one particular scene you
(07:06):
were doing and he was standing andhe was he had a lot of pain,
back pain that back then he hadto lift me in the scene.
And I was trying to tell himthat, listen, I don't want you
to do that right now. Letlet the director say action and then you
do it. And he's like,no, just come here, just come
and climb on this and just andthe way he was screaming and shouting.
I just looked at him now likeI think I'm in love with this guy?
What is it about him? AndI for me, it was that.
(07:28):
And obviously I didn't I didn't knowlah blah blah bla whatever, but
I did. I did realize that, yes, this person has something in
him that just makes my world goaround, and I ceased to see anything
beyond him. It's just him,that sweet sentie. Ye're gonna tell me
it's still not serious or what's here? Listen? Why why does it have
(07:55):
to be serious? I don't understand. You know, you know, see
we we had too, so like, no, who are visiting this uh
this planet? You know? Whymake anything serious? And you know what
the reason for me enjoying this livingrelationship or going for it is because you
cannot promise anybody your future. Youcan only promise somebody your present. I
(08:15):
wonder what people said, like especiallyI guess your family and friends because they
always have a thousand opinions, andI guess parents always wished it one day.
You know, Oh, my childrenshould be safe because they associate safety
with marriage and you know children,grandchildren with marriage. And um, they
(08:37):
terribly disappointed that this is not,you know, in the cards for them
or is that still something that youyou know, consider if it happens,
it happens, or um, what'syour take on you know, family planning
and living together. Um, Ithink it's been fifteen years, hasn't it.
Yeah, it's you because for somedeeper no. But but see I
(09:07):
but unlike Assha's family, my familyis very orthodox, you know, my
family is like no, I comefrom a village, you know my family.
So they obviously like no for them, like not to see their child,
like now having a living relationship,not going for a marriage, not
having like children. For them,it's a it's a big deal and they
just didn't understand it and they hadto. But at the same time,
(09:28):
I was very you know, confidentof living my life the way I want
because I don't want to uh,you know, I don't want to do
something just because other people are doingit. Absolutely, And how did you
come to this conviction? Because ifyou say that you grew up in fairly
conservative and you know, um,maybe even slightly backwards village, Um,
(09:54):
how did you become so worldly?And how did you get these other ideas
even that there is a different wayof living? Yea, by not taking
any decisions in life. Just letlife happen to me, you know,
I just yeah, I see,I didn't know when I like, No,
it's not that I had planned tohave a girlfriend. Ashlsha came in,
(10:16):
yea. She never left Alicia Ashlicia, she came in. We we
she she taught me how to love. You know, it's not that she
because she was so she was soloving, so so and I was and
I was open to it. Iwanted to correct myself, you know,
I wanted to see, like,no, how can life become better?
And she she really helped me doit. And then we fell in We
(10:41):
fell in love and then we kindof but we just did not want to
do things just because other people,because we've I've also seen a lot of
bad marriages, you know, I'vealso seen a lot of bad bad companionship.
It's hardly companionship. It's just twopeople are together just for the sake
of it. I know, let'sbe honest. It's a fifty fifteen,
(11:01):
isn't it. When I walked intohis world, all I felt was contentment
in peace. There was never thismoment where I felt that I, as
a human being or a girl,I'm not safe. I need something more
to make me feel safe in thisrelationship. I still remember in the beginning
years of our relationship, I thinkmaybe seven or eight months into our relationship,
(11:22):
there is to be boys night out, and here was some weep.
He would take me everywhere, andthe boys would be but why are you
getting a girlfriend? And he'd belike, but she's my girlfriend. She's
gonna be wherever I am. There'sno boys night out. Now she's there
and she's everywhere. And I lookedat him and I was like, and
I was like, oh, whodoes that? I saw girls who were
being cheated on at the age ofseventeen, eighteen nineteen, and here was
(11:45):
this guy who only promised me heretoday, and he's complete today. Complete
from the time I wake up inthe morning till the time I sleep,
he is there with his presence andhis utmost presence. And that that was
something that I was not just attractedto. I just knew this is this
is normal. This is hey,I mean people, people maybe getting diamond
(12:09):
rings and they may be getting thewedding, but hey, this is not
normal. This is something else atonce. No, but if you but
if you actually see you know,Evelyn, like, no, what this
is marriage? Right? This iswhat you call marriage right that it wants
to be working a good relationship.We've just we just don't involved people.
Marriage is like two people living together. They're making a life together. So
(12:31):
that actually is if you've just notinvolved people, you've just not involved government
and you're not you know, signedthat paper. Otherwise, this is how
marriage should be. Two people veryloving will come to the league guarantees in
a bit. But it's nice tosee that, you know, how happy
the two of you are in this. And I'm sure that's what convinced your
(12:54):
family and friends that hey, ifit works for them, you know it'll
work for us, because what theywant sees their children happy in the end.
Um, what what's the other theother? You know, opinion,
the public opinion on your relationship.Do you get to hear some things on
social media nowadays or did the mediaever write about Oh my god, it's
(13:18):
it's been so long. We've seenpeople change their opinions and how the two
of us have lived and being togetherbecause they'reout friends who will tell us,
oh, you guys need to getmarried. Why are you doing this?
Why are you living this? Whatabout your security is? What about this?
Those same the same couple or thosesame people today they'll ask, you
know, it's so good you guysdidn't marry because now we see the true
(13:39):
love. We see the true love, and twenty years later they've already gotten
the yes. Yes, the secondmarriage. Yeah yeah, well well obviously
not all marriages divorce. I'm notsaying yeah, you know, it's I
think for me personally, it's that, like you said, at something,
(14:00):
that relationship that you nurture, andwhether it's married or not, that's not
really the the factor that should makeyou stay together. Love companions two people,
and two people have to be twopeople have to be smart enough to
know that they should be together onlytill the time love is you know.
(14:22):
And then as kids, when youhear about these virtues, when your children
you hear about these silent virtues likepatients, love, trust, kindness,
honesty. You know, these virtuesactually means something. They're the basis of
everything. They're the basis of yourbeing. So today, if somebody gives,
like I remember a couple of yearsback times and when they want to
do an interview when we were speakingabout our relationship after a gap of I
(14:46):
mean, you've never spoken about it, and they were very they wanted to
do an article and some they've saidsomething and I quote he said that,
you know, tomorrow fflshall find someoneand she falls in love, I'll be
very happy for her. And youknow what, it's this rock solid mess
of this human being and this honestyof this human peoples. And I do
know because it works with me alsotomorrow, if I see that, all
(15:07):
I want, all I all Iwant from the universe is this human being,
this person, this man. Mygoodness, you guys are so passionate
about each other. It's okay,it's your sacred space when you're together.
(15:33):
And I think, yeah, that'sthat's super beautiful and it's worth preserving well.
In each episode of our Love Matterspodcast, our team puts together some
statistics about today's topic. So let'slook at some facts and figures when it
comes to attitudes towards living together inIndia. Indian Express reports that, according
(15:58):
to a recent paul, more thaneighty percent of millennials perceive living relationships to
be taboo in Indian society. Morethan forty seven percent of all Indians believe
marriage is preferable to lifelong livings.However, the same paul found that more
than eighty percent of Indians do supportlivings as a way of life. Twenty
six percent of millennials went a stepfurther, saying they would choose a lifelong
(16:22):
living relationship over marriage. What doyou guys think? How is it that?
Well, it says that eighty percentof millennials still perceive a living relationship
as a taboo in Indian society,so they think that society does not accept
it. However, they do supportlive ins as a way of life,
(16:45):
So definitely there's a change in societywhich or maybe even a misconception that it's
still a table, but actually it'spretty accepted now what do you guys think
I would listen, I would Iwould say if not, if not,
(17:07):
like now, what for the forthe for the generations right now, for
the future generation, if not livingtogether at least living together for some time
before marriage you know at least no, at least no that you know that
are you compatible or not? Becausejust get because in India what happens like
now you have like two three meetingsbefore your marriage and then you're put together
(17:30):
for life. You know, thecompatibility that's a whole different story. So
but but you see, but yousee that's that's that's how the marriages are
in India. The other extreme.Yeah, but that's if you leave the
metros out and if even in metros, like know what people who are like
no that they is the websites likeno, the marriage websites and stuff.
(17:53):
They also meet like your two threetimes they meet and then they're together.
And then in in COVID times becausemy my father was a judge and my
brother is a judge, and mybrother was in family court. So he
was saying there was so many divorcecases during COVID because people actually didn't go
out and they were spending so muchof time together in a flat and they
(18:15):
just could not, you know,take each other. They just could not,
like not bear each other. Yeah, I think I would have probably
the worst everybody too. Yeah,I don't know the fact legal position in
India. Maybe you know it better. It is it is, Yeah,
of course it is. It isa legal thing. I mean, if
you're having to staying together you work, yes, you considered to be married.
(18:41):
But even if you say you livetogether for ten years and then you
know your your husband leaves you,which is the You know, you're asking
all the right questions. Yeah,you're asking all the right questions. And
in terms of security, I think, I mean, it's it's fine.
You know, you your love andyou your sing, spiritual or whatever.
It's all fine. It's all fine. That's also a way of life.
(19:03):
But when it comes to being practicalizingthese questions make so much more sense.
Having said that, I think thetwo people involved, Step and I both
I can only speak for ourselves.And you know I have been working since
the age of seventeen. He's beenworking since when he was twing two years
old, and the two of ushave realized that no matter what you do
in life, no matter how securityyou are. Especially in our as actors,
(19:26):
there's nothing that you call security,because there's a time when you're working
and there's a time you're not working. And having seen that personally for ourselves
individually, I'm not Let's just sayhis professional life is very different than mine.
The shows that I do and hedoes. You there are times when
you're working and there are times you'renot working. You understand what security really
(19:48):
means. There's nothing that's actually guaranteedfor life. There is nothing that's guaranteed
for life. I guess the securitycomes in because in the end, you
know, I mean, I feelit myself. The woman is the one
who bears the children. I guessa lot of women find it's scary to
fully commit to someone who doesn't wantto fully commit to them in a legal
(20:11):
manner, I suppose, and Imean take our take on this whole thing,
would leg to make it legal.You know, the thing is,
we've never we've never ever spoken aboutthis. It may sound very funny and
make me look very stupid, nothim, but me for sure as a
girl that I've not never even spokenand they've never never even thought about it.
(20:32):
No, it's not like I've nevereven spoken about it. But now
when the conversation arises and we talkabout it, it's mainly for our parents.
I want his parents to be happythey're old. I want my mother
to be happy she's old. Iwant them to know that. All right,
eventually these guys are going to getmarried, and we want to make
them happy. We want to dothat ceremony for them. We want to
(20:53):
see and seek their blessing because nowwe do see their side of the story.
While we were young and we weredoing our own thing and living as
rebel as wanting to do what wewanted to do, we did that.
And today when we see them givetheir whole lives to us and sacrifice so
much for us, and today whenwe have that sensibility, the conversation that
arises to marry is only and onlyfor those parents, because I only deserve
(21:17):
that what we wanted to do putdown. But now like that, because
they've they've also seen, Like theykeep telling us, like you already bad.
You guys did together all the timetogether, Yeah, you guys,
yeah, you see this, Likewhat is the problem signing a document?
You know, just sign it?No, we've just we've just dealt with
life so ganically that like when westarted dating then we started living in together,
(21:42):
we just did not take any decision. We just don't think. We
just did not promise each other ourtomorrows because we don't know what's going to
happen tomorrow. We both are veryspiritual people, so we just don't want
to We don't know what's going tohappen tomorrow. But we are together now,
so in a way, we neverfound time to just book a place
and get married. If she hadinsisted, like you know, if she
(22:07):
had ever insisted that I want awedding and I want to you know that
can you can you give me?I would have given her. Yeah,
well no, I don't know.You know. It's like I'm sorry,
I'm gonna bloat, and I don'twant to be lad. I don't want
like bullying, bullied as this likebad evil eye on this when I say
this. But honestly, I justfeel that if once in a lifetime you
(22:27):
get to experience being totally consumed bythe person that you love so much so
that there is just no space leftfor you to think about anything, any
technicality, any practicality, anything thatthe world is telling you, and you're
just so consumed with this thing.I feel that, I mean, I
(22:48):
feel it's a blessing. And Ilived with that. And that's why I
never asked him. I never toldhim that I want to get married and
I want to buy this and thisshould be by wed wedding. True,
so, and this is where weneed to do a wedding. And what
are we going to tell your family? Are they going to come around?
It was never a conversation in myhead. I was way more consumed with
a lot, more loved than receiving. Yeah, it's not. It doesn't
(23:10):
give a license to flirt around andyou know, just have multiple partners and
no, no, it's not that. It's it's much more serious. You're
not involving, you're not involving peoplein your marriage. But it is your
it is it is a commitment frominsight that we will be together till the
time love is there. But youknow what happens even sometimes you know what,
even if you have purest of intentions, love does leave a couple.
(23:34):
Sometimes you know there's something happened thatthe love leaves and you have to be
smart enough to understand that the lovehas left us. It's better to part
ways rather than giving each other help, you know, or rather just being
sticking together just because we we wewe promised each other or we're committed to
each other. No, you haveyou're committed. You're committed for each other's
happiness. You're not committed for youknow, to give each other company for
(23:57):
for life. So you have tobe smart enough to understand that that there
is no it's better to part plays. You can have other mello, you
can go for somebody else like wewill be friends forever. Yeah. Well,
that's very interesting view on relationship.I guess. I guess people have
different views on this kind of relationshipbecause for me, I would love,
(24:22):
you know, to believe that mypartner and I, even if we're not
you know, crazy and love anymoreone day, we still want to be
best friends and kind of you know, to life together. Yea. And
yeah, I guess it's all aboutthe way you want to plan your future
as well. Yeah, I guessit's I guess that's really no recipe to
(24:44):
this, right, I mean,And at the end of it, it's
it's your individual unique blessing you wereborn, but it's your destiny. It's
how you choose to. I thinklove and marriage and I think your life.
It's it's it's the luxury to designit by yourself. That's the luxury
and beauty of it. Right.If you're in love, you you have
the luxury to love the way youwant to love. If you are living
your life, you have the luxuryand the benefit to design the way you
(25:07):
want it. It's your life.At the end of the day, if
you're happy and you're sleeping, usuallywhat do you And I guess it's all
about finding a partner that wants asimilar lifestyle as you. But question,
do you guys come from the samereligious backgrounds or yes? Yes, yes,
yes, so to say yes,But I don't know if you'd call
(25:30):
it religion. But you know whatwhen everyone you were telling me about you
know, the way you how youthink about what a partnership and a relationshipship
should be, Like I do.I do believe that when you get married
and when you're standing there all deckedup and you see your husband, you
know, tradition, does it steepsin? It seeps in it? Does
it? Does you know if there'ssomething about that ritual, there's something about
(25:53):
that custom. It's just so ageold as an institution that I mean,
there has to be utmost respect towardsit. There's a reason that it's day.
I would never say that I'm livingin so you know, screw you
guys, Okay, I'm living init. I'm happy, I'm in love.
You guys, you are the badguys. You fight in your marriage.
No, that's not mad, didude? Here is that? You know
(26:15):
what? It's all beautiful, It'sall it's all lovely. There's a reason
you're getting married. You want toannounce your love to the world. You
want people to know that you're inlove. And that's beautiful. What you
say that, you guys are justreally lucky that you found each other and
you wanted the same thing about life. Uh see, I think you know
what God? God, God isa friend. You know, God is
(26:37):
not a so God always, likeno, gives you the best thing that
is possible for you. But ifyou accept it, if you don't,
if you then you you do realizethat everybody is lucky. But it's just
that just because you start to youknow, accept few things, reject a
few things, and then you Idon't know, I think I'm going too
far with my spiritual yet but no, But I think I think one thing
(27:03):
that sund Deep has already always taughtme, one thing that I remember,
you know, and he's always saidthese five five words make a huge impact
on your life. He's always toldme it's acceptance, it's surrender, it's
understanding and totally totally uh totally totallymaking it your own being being in the
being. It becomes your being.Once all these things come in place,
you just with it. You justwith it. There's no separation from because
(27:29):
if you if you actually don't ifyou don't plan anything, if you actually
your mind is empty, you knowwhat, you are full of love,
you know you are. But thenyou don't have to choose to love you.
You love everything and everybody. Andof course, like you know,
my partner is like no, theone who's with me, like no,
hobously I'm gonna do, I'm gonnado no love her and you know,
emper her and like no, justmake sure that she has the best best
(27:52):
things in a life. But notnot deciding to do it, not not
choosing to do it, just letit happen, let it all happen on
anything. So you're a very umpassively embracing life. Yes, yes,
yes, yes, yes, that'sa beautiful meat, especially India, especionately
Legland. Just accepting everything. It'sa very new way of life, the
(28:17):
doablest way of life, saying inthe wind and it will all ye kind
of go. Well, that's beautifulnow. I'm so so happy for you,
guys, and I wish everyone tofind the kind of love that you
have. Um and yeah, Iwish you all the best, guys,
Thank you, thank you. Yeah, let's see where life takes us.
(28:37):
And Evelyn, you are very toocute and God bless you always may be
so cute and pretty and may orBabby as cute and pretty and lots and
lots of love to you and yourhusbands, all the very best. I
have a wonderful time and I havea very beautiful Thank you so much,
Thank you, guys, thank you, thank you. Well you've been listening
(29:00):
to Love Matters, a podcast aboutrelationship topics that matter to you and me
from Indian Express and DW, Germany'sinternational broadcaster. If there's a topic that
is important to you and you thinkwe should cover it, please write to
Love Matters at DW dot com.I'm em Lynn Sharma and I think love
(29:22):
matters. No,
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