June 9, 2023 • 26 mins
Do you find talking about money in your relationships unbearably awkward? Well, you’re not alone. But luckily for us, one couple has made it their mission to help us tackle this topic – together – for happier, healthier relationships. Today, we talk to Shivani and Pawan Agarwal about when, where and how to have these tricky conversations.
Evelyn Sharma's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/evelyn_sharma/
Shivani & Pawan’s book: The Little Book on Financial Clarity
Research & guest acquisition: Sana Rizvi
Project Manager: Sonja Kaun-Trenkler
Editorial Support: Shashank Bhargava, Anant Nath Sharma, Khyati Rajvanshi
Executive Producer: Melanie von Marschalck, DW Life & Style
Evelyn Sharma's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/evelyn_sharma/
Shivani & Pawan’s book: The Little Book on Financial Clarity
Research & guest acquisition: Sana Rizvi
Project Manager: Sonja Kaun-Trenkler
Editorial Support: Shashank Bhargava, Anant Nath Sharma, Khyati Rajvanshi
Executive Producer: Melanie von Marschalck, DW Life & Style
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
We need to understand that finances arevery important portion of compatibility itself. Every
married couple should be friends with eachother. I mean they should behave like
friends, because when you have thatfriendship, it's very very easy to have
difficult conversations money. It's not somethingyou're likely to talk about on the first
(00:23):
date or even on the second.But considering how crucial financial compatibility is to
a happy and healthy partnership, thequestion is when and how do we have
these conversations. Hey everyone, I'mEvelyn Charma and this is Love Matters,
(00:45):
a podcast about relationship topics that matterto you and me, a collaboration from
DW and Indian Express and today,dear listeners, we're talking about combining love
and money. Awkward but pretty unavoidableif you want to be in a committed,
long term relationship. Yet not somethingwe talk about very openly because well,
(01:08):
no one really teaches you how tohave these tricky conversations. But never
fear. That's what we're here for. We've invited the perfect pair on the
show today to help us navigate moneymatters in relationships and maybe even give some
tips to help you put that hotarmed coin in the right place without further
(01:30):
ado, Welcome to the show.Vanni and Pavan agerval Hi. Thank you,
it's my pleasure. Well, guys, for those who don't know Chavanni
and Pava too well, they havebeen together since twenty twenty. Chavanni works
in the education sector and Pavan isa financial advisor. Together they have already
(01:53):
co authored a book called The LittleBook on Financial Clarity, which was public
in February twenty twenty two. Andif I'm not mistaken, the book was
released at your wedding right. Yes, wow, that's a big review.
(02:14):
So you guys worked together for twoyears, and those two years you decided
let's write a book on financial matterstogether. How did that come abat?
So what happened was when we starteddating. Dating, we started getting to
know each other. We started talkingabout a profession work slowly and steadily,
(02:35):
like you rightly mentioned that if youwant to have a long lasting relationship,
so you need to discuss the finances. So initially we started off with small
things, but as in when youknow, Shivanni and we sat down,
we talked, and I noticed thatShivanni was missing the financial planning puzzle.
Shivani, why don't you add toit. Yeah, So one thing that
(02:58):
we realized when we were talking abouta work was that I was working since
a couple of years earning. Iwas having finance salary, but I still
had not figured out my financial planningaspect correctly. I was mostly dependent on
what my father, my brother,you know, we're taking care of.
So when we start, when we'rediscussing all of this, we realize that,
(03:19):
you know how, you know,grave this problem is. I was
earning money, but I was notknowing how to handle it. So then,
of course pub and started helping meout. I started understanding more concepts,
and in that process we also realizedthat this is a larger problem.
So when I helped Chivanni with herfinancial planning, she told me, she
(03:40):
asked me that, you know,why don't you help my friends also they
went to college together. And thenI thought, okay, let me prepare
something, and I started preparing adocument. And because I have been in
the financial services industry for quite sometime now, so I knew that there's
a gap. But I always thoughtthe youth of the country, you know,
(04:00):
people who are doing their graduation andmasters, they don't have this problem
because typically my clients are businessmen whoare not so new to the education system.
But when I interacted with her friends, I realized that somehow the financial
planning, the financial clarity is notthere in the education system, that's right,
(04:21):
Yeah, yeah, So when Istarted putting together the document more so,
you know, after I think twoweeks, I realized that it's becoming
very big for one or two oursession, and it's taking a shape of
a book. And because Vanni hadthe writing experience, I shared that document
with her and that's when we decided, because that you know, if you
(04:44):
really want to help people and wantto spread the message of financial freedom at
large, why don't we collaborate ona project and write a book about it
and we'll see what happens. We'renot really sure that, you know,
we'll get the kind of response thatwe have received, but we just wanted
to do with whatever limited capacity wecould. That's awesome, and as you
(05:09):
rightly mentioned, we reviewed the bookor did the first appearance of the book
on our wedding day. So yeah, that's super cool. And I can
see that you have together. Thenyou've done a lot of hard work on
your relationship. When it comes tomoney and finances in in the time before
(05:30):
your wedding, since you released thebook at your wedding, how important do
you think it is to discuss thesekind of money matters well before you get
married. Oh, very important.I mean it's one of the things,
you know, Like people say thatlove is something that starts the relationship,
but then going forward to when youstart a family and you stayed together day
(05:54):
to day, money is involved inas simple as you know, buying grocery
is all just having dinner. Yeah, yeah, money is involved, so
you cannot just shy away from it. So I would say it's really important
to talk about money way before youthink about getting into a serious relationship.
(06:16):
So where where do you start?How do you approach this? How do
you like? You know? BecauseI guess a lot of people think like,
oh, no, you know,I'm going to kill our romance if
I start talking about such technical things. How do you you know? When
did you, for example, havethe conversation about, look, I make
(06:39):
this much money and this is whatI can contribute to our future family,
And then you know your partner saidokay, and I make this much money
and I want to contribute this much. When did you have this conversation and
how did you bring it up?So I'll tell you in our case,
it happened after engagement. After wewere engaged, we had a few subtle
(07:02):
things noticing. You know, thingswere discussed on a more simpler level about
what I just spending, habits orvalue of money, the value of money.
But once we thought that we shouldmove ahead, we got engaged,
and I think after our engagement wehad this discussion that how much do you
(07:23):
make? And I mean, Iremember Chivanni had asked me that why do
you want to get married? Imean, it's a very simple question.
Why do you want to get married? Now? Were twenty six twenty seven?
So I told her that right now, currently, I think the amount
of money I'm making, I've reacheda certain level where I can take care
of a family, I can starta family. So it was because of
(07:46):
this reason that I think now Ishould focus on my family life and personal
life. Okay, so you hada bit of a conversation about how much
each of you earns before engagement.Was it like over at dinner or like,
you know, how can you givesomeone advice, maybe a little tip
(08:07):
to someone who kind of feels like, Hey, in our relationship, we
should be at this point? Now, how do I bring it up?
I'll tell you. So what they'retrying to ask is how do you get
the conversation started about such questions?Right am? I? Yes, yes,
I think you know, just jumpinginto the numbers is not the right
way. You know, tell meeverything. How much do you make?
(08:28):
And this is what myself income isdefinitely not going to work out. But
what I would recommend is because youare thinking about, you know, getting
together and spending the live together,one thing that you can do is is
a very simple exercise as a couple, as a future married couple. You
can sit down, you can writedown five things that you want to do
(08:50):
together in future, and then youhave a financial number to it, and
then schedule it on your calendar,like you want to Europe Toodchiani in twenty
twenty seven, and I says howmuch money it's going to cost? And
we are going to save for thisin so many years And because now you
(09:11):
have a shared vision, now youhave a shared goal. Okay, So
financial stability is clearly a major concernfor most people when building a relationship.
I know it was for me andthere are a million things to talk about
when it comes to money and marriage, and so I want to cover a
few in this rapid fire round.And I want you guys to just say
(09:35):
one answer and we'll move on tothe next one. Yes, oh no,
or you know are you guys,yes? Yeah, So I'm going
to read the line out and youguys just tell me one answer, okay,
and then we'll move to the nextone. We won't dig into it
too deep, all right, allright? First, separate bank account or
(09:56):
a joint account. I'm joined,oh okay um. Second, track spending
in a shared spreadsheet or let itlose. You have to track it,
track it definitely, okay. Um. Third, make partner nominee of your
(10:18):
personal bank account, yes or no? Yes, m hmm. Saving or
investing investing, saving, don't intoinvestments? Okay. I think you guys
need to get it more clear onthis one in your relationship. Um.
(10:39):
And then finally, the number onefinancial red flag in a relationship. So
for me, the red flag iswhen the people involved in that relationship,
the couple, they don't talk aboutmoney. They If I had met Sivanni
and there was absolutely no community orno conversation about money and the financial aspects
(11:03):
because it's a it's an important partof life. So for me, that
would have been a red flag becauseI would want a partner who sits with
me, talks about it, plansit, and you know, design that
aspect of life together. Right,that's a that's a good answer. Yeah,
I think Chivanni also has a redflag. So I would say when
(11:28):
you know, money in the relationshipbecomes like a means or the only means
to show love affection, or it'slike a gesture showing thing, you know.
So I think that's a very bigred flag. Relationships are way beyond
just the money aspect. You know, what I thought was a red flag.
(11:52):
But then you know, my husbandand I are deep into our relationship,
have the second child come. Anyway, I think it's a red flag
that you spend money on coffees everymorning, coffee machine. But anyway,
that's just on a side note.Well, now for a couple of scenarios
(12:15):
that are a bit more complicated.Okay, what if the two people in
a relationship have really different ideas abouthow to spend or safe money, Like
what if you don't agree with yourpartners spending habits, like you know,
spending money on coffee every day ratherthan getting a coffee machine. Are you
doomed or how can you sort thiskind of you know issue? And so
(12:41):
definitely you're not doomed because different peoplebring different flavors to the relationship, so
it's good that you one person isdifferent from their partner. So there's no
problem as such as long as thereis trust and that space is given where
the person can spend and save accordingly. But of course there are a few
(13:01):
ground rules that as a couple youboth have to agree on and then just
stick to it. I mean,of course you trust your partner, that's
why you are in a relationship,and that trust should also be extended to
the financial aspect too, right,right, maybe making budgets could be a
good idea about and when he getslistening, yes, what else? What
(13:33):
else? Are some tips of howto tack all this kind of issue.
So, like I was mentioning earlierthat you know, every couple should at
least sit together once a month andmake a monthly budget, decide what are
the expenses going to be and alsoand more importantly, decide where are they
(13:54):
going to put their surplus money?Surplus investments in Yeah, so that they
both are on a regular basis communicating, and they both can somewhat come the
future old yeah, and they bothcan somewhat come together, you know,
from their different point of views andhave a more common, more aligned way
(14:15):
of spending and saving. Yes.Yes, In fact, this will also
bring in discipline automatically. So ifsomebody you know has a problem, that's
maybe the partner is not you know, maybe spending on something which they do
not like. If you're already savingfor something, like you know, you're
investing in something, so already thingsare in check. Yes. Yeah.
(14:35):
Well my husband and I, forexample, we got married, um well,
he was already in his mid thirties, I in my early early early
thirties, but both of us mhad, of course, you know,
more than ten years of our careersand independent lives and independent fine financial situations.
(15:01):
Um. And so we decided todo a bit of a marriage preparation
course in our engagement, um,which kind of brought together our cultural backgrounds
and you know, brought up allthe ikey and difficult conversations basically before you're
married, which I highly recommend,I highly recommend finding you know, a
(15:22):
great marriage coach, as I liketo call her, um to be that
independent partner in your marriage. Wasjust you know, so for you and
tries to help you figure things outbecause I feel like if you consult friends
or family, they're usually on yourside and not on the relationships side.
(15:46):
Absolutely, and they should they loveyou, you know, absolutely, and
so yeah, our marriage coach alsohad a couple of um topics that we
discussed around finances, and I thinkthat was a really great way for us
to start our marriage life together becauseI feel like nobody prepares you really for
(16:07):
this chapter in your life. Butyeah, I think it's amazing that you
guys wrote this book because that's alsolike so easy guys. Um, you
know, if you have someone who'sgetting married, please gift them this book.
Yes, this should be in everybody'sum you know sort of wedding presents
(16:29):
list and just generally, you know, I mean couples can pick up this
book. It's such a great startingpoint to start off a conversation on finances.
Like if you don't know how tohave this conversation, just get the
book and you know, work throughit together. Um. So, yeah,
what if I have more questions?Obviously, what if one person in
(16:49):
the couple earns more than the other, which is usually the case, one
will earn more than the other.Um, do you think all bills and
costs should be split evenly or accordingto earning power? Yeah? What do
you think? You know? HowYes, so this is a tricky one,
(17:15):
and I think this is like anunswered question which everybody has probably these
days in their mind. Yeah,so just to first like answer your question,
like what's the way out? Oneof the options could be because this
would really depend from couple to couple. We also speak with a lot of
people around us, UM, andyou know, it really depends on case
(17:38):
to case. However, one ofthe like things that work out pretty well
is if there are two people whoare earning in different you know, proportions,
but you have like a common percentageof your income. Yeah, so
say both of them can contribute toten percent. Because see the tables cannot
turn any time today. X couldbe you know, earning more to more
(18:03):
or the other partner might be earningmore, so that would would be like
a parity for the couple. Nevertheless, I would like to mention what we
kind of believe in is that youknow, when you enter a relationship or
when you're in a relationship, youreally don't think about splitting costs because relationship
is way beyond just that numerical number. So as long as each one of
(18:32):
you are contributing to the life thatyou're making it, and it could be
in monetary non monetary ways, let'snot you know, go there. So
I think it's more on the communication. I know it's getting repetitive in terms
of how you're talking about communication,but that's the key, right because absolutely
(18:53):
everybody comes from a certain value,you know, mindset of the money also,
So yes, well let me throwin um one more angle and make
it a little bit more difficult foryou. Bring it on all right?
What if you know, say,um, girl meets boy, um,
(19:14):
they get married, turns out boyum. You know. I mean in
India it's a very common thing tohave shared family accounts. And now you're
marrying into a family that has ashared account already. Okay, not with
you, not for your family,but you know his family has a How
do you now decide? Okay,you know, how much do you actually
(19:38):
bring into this marriage? How muchdo you earn? How much am I
bringing into this family, How muchdid I give to my family? Um,
what what about family shared accounts?So you know what we tell our
clients and what we tell are thepeople that we coach and mentor is first
to have separate bank accounts. Ifguy is getting married, because now he
(20:02):
is an adult and of course he'smaking his own money, he has his
business, he has his salary,he should have his own account where his
income is getting in. And likewisewe also tell the girl that who is
marrying should have her own personal accountafter marriage, together they should have their
one joint account where every month,like Siwani said, a certain predecided percentage
(20:26):
is you know, put aside byboth the people, by both the partner,
by the girl and the guy.So this is how the raw structure
or skeleton of the accounting and theyou know it happens. So this way
what happens is the guy is alsoknowing how much he is earning apart from
(20:47):
his family, and the girl whois getting married, she also knows how
much she is getting in her accountby her job or by her business or
by a profession. And together theyare contributing to a share joint account and
they both know what's their share ofcontribution. That's lovely, Evelyn. Your
question is quite interesting because however,we you know, easily say this in
(21:12):
a complex family structure, this mightnot be possible. So I completely understand
you know, where this question iscoming from, because this could be a
common scenario and a lot of familya lot of families. I have so
many friends who have I'm sure thefamily accounts and it's not just say you
know, they're you know, dailywages that go into these accounts, but
(21:37):
it may also hold assets and youknow, investments and all that stuff.
Yes, So how do you bringup this kind of conversation with exactly?
So I would like to mention theresee that structure has been functioning since a
lot of years. So if andespecially because we're talking about Indian setup,
(22:00):
yes, if a new if agirl is entering the family straight up questioning
and you know, fighting against thatstructure is not the best way out.
Maybe you will get your way through, yes, but that not might not
be you know, happy thing todo, right. I I think I
completely agree with you and your structure. It's a very very smart way to
(22:25):
approach it to you know, haveboth of the individuals that are starting a
new family, set up their ownindividual accounts and decide how much are we
both you know, earning. Ithink that is the best way to avoid
any conflict. That's right, Andthat's a good conversation to have with your
own family, you know. Imean many girls also come with their you
(22:47):
know, shared family accounts and thenyes, are they bringing anything in?
How much or you know, it'ssuch a lovely difficult conversation to have.
And I to our audience after listeningto this podcast, to not feel scared
of this conversation. Yeah, andI hope this brings out more conversations around
(23:08):
this and just we normalize these conversationsrather than making a taboo or shying away
from shying away from it and youknow, name calling the different family relations
that you have. It it's avery normal conversation. Yes, it's totally
up to what the couple decides inso many situations. Yeah, it's just
(23:33):
breaking this fear away from this conversation. So, Evelyn, I would like
to add something you were talking aboutthe fear of having this conversation. So
there are two things. First,I believe that every married couple should be
friends with each other. I meanthey should behave like friends, because when
you have that friendship, it's veryvery easy to have difficult conversations. Second,
(24:00):
they should try to work on aproject together. The reason I'll tell
you, the reason I had askedVanni to collaborate with me on this book
was that we get to spend timetogether apart from our day to day work,
and we spend time together doing somethingproductive. And when you do that,
you form a bond, which is, you know, a bond that
(24:23):
you can talk about things and youcan share things. So these two things
I feel are very important. Iftwo people are having good communication amongst themselves,
they are able to communicate, youknow, their mind out very freely.
Even money conversation would become easier.Yeah, yeah, I think yeah.
Building that pace of trust with havinghonest conversations in a relationship will make
(24:48):
it much easier to talk about money. That's a very good point. People
also need to understand what the otherpartner has in terms of their relationship with
money in the past, how theyhave grown up with money, how they
have owned money, or you know, I am a big believer in if
you understand the other person's past withrespect to a certain situation, or think
(25:11):
it's easier to you know, goahead with decision making. That's beautiful,
that's so true. That's really understandingyour partner's view on money because of their
childhood and their upbringing and their struggleor their their journey with money so far.
(25:34):
That's really interesting. And also maybetheir dreams. You know, why
have they been working and making moneyall this while? What did they want
to do with this money? Yes, the Little Book on Financial Clarity,
guys, make sure to get it. And thank you so much Chivanni and
Bavan for your expertise in your timetoday and sharing so openly with us about
(25:57):
your own personal journey money and especiallyin your young relationship. I'd like i'd
like to say thank you guys somuch for being on the show today.
Thank you a pleasure, thank you, and thank you guys so much for
listening. Remember, if you haveany love and dating questions and stories to
share, send them over to usat Love Matters at ew dot com.
(26:19):
And if you like this podcast,don't forget to rate and review us on
whatever podcast platform you're using right now, and of course share it with a
friend. I'm Evelyn Sharma and Ithink Love Matters
We need to understand that finances arevery important portion of compatibility itself. Every
married couple should be friends with eachother. I mean they should behave like
friends, because when you have thatfriendship, it's very very easy to have
difficult conversations money. It's not somethingyou're likely to talk about on the first
(00:23):
date or even on the second.But considering how crucial financial compatibility is to
a happy and healthy partnership, thequestion is when and how do we have
these conversations. Hey everyone, I'mEvelyn Charma and this is Love Matters,
(00:45):
a podcast about relationship topics that matterto you and me, a collaboration from
DW and Indian Express and today,dear listeners, we're talking about combining love
and money. Awkward but pretty unavoidableif you want to be in a committed,
long term relationship. Yet not somethingwe talk about very openly because well,
(01:08):
no one really teaches you how tohave these tricky conversations. But never
fear. That's what we're here for. We've invited the perfect pair on the
show today to help us navigate moneymatters in relationships and maybe even give some
tips to help you put that hotarmed coin in the right place without further
(01:30):
ado, Welcome to the show.Vanni and Pavan agerval Hi. Thank you,
it's my pleasure. Well, guys, for those who don't know Chavanni
and Pava too well, they havebeen together since twenty twenty. Chavanni works
in the education sector and Pavan isa financial advisor. Together they have already
(01:53):
co authored a book called The LittleBook on Financial Clarity, which was public
in February twenty twenty two. Andif I'm not mistaken, the book was
released at your wedding right. Yes, wow, that's a big review.
(02:14):
So you guys worked together for twoyears, and those two years you decided
let's write a book on financial matterstogether. How did that come abat?
So what happened was when we starteddating. Dating, we started getting to
know each other. We started talkingabout a profession work slowly and steadily,
(02:35):
like you rightly mentioned that if youwant to have a long lasting relationship,
so you need to discuss the finances. So initially we started off with small
things, but as in when youknow, Shivanni and we sat down,
we talked, and I noticed thatShivanni was missing the financial planning puzzle.
Shivani, why don't you add toit. Yeah, So one thing that
(02:58):
we realized when we were talking abouta work was that I was working since
a couple of years earning. Iwas having finance salary, but I still
had not figured out my financial planningaspect correctly. I was mostly dependent on
what my father, my brother,you know, we're taking care of.
So when we start, when we'rediscussing all of this, we realize that,
(03:19):
you know how, you know,grave this problem is. I was
earning money, but I was notknowing how to handle it. So then,
of course pub and started helping meout. I started understanding more concepts,
and in that process we also realizedthat this is a larger problem.
So when I helped Chivanni with herfinancial planning, she told me, she
(03:40):
asked me that, you know,why don't you help my friends also they
went to college together. And thenI thought, okay, let me prepare
something, and I started preparing adocument. And because I have been in
the financial services industry for quite sometime now, so I knew that there's
a gap. But I always thoughtthe youth of the country, you know,
(04:00):
people who are doing their graduation andmasters, they don't have this problem
because typically my clients are businessmen whoare not so new to the education system.
But when I interacted with her friends, I realized that somehow the financial
planning, the financial clarity is notthere in the education system, that's right,
(04:21):
Yeah, yeah, So when Istarted putting together the document more so,
you know, after I think twoweeks, I realized that it's becoming
very big for one or two oursession, and it's taking a shape of
a book. And because Vanni hadthe writing experience, I shared that document
with her and that's when we decided, because that you know, if you
(04:44):
really want to help people and wantto spread the message of financial freedom at
large, why don't we collaborate ona project and write a book about it
and we'll see what happens. We'renot really sure that, you know,
we'll get the kind of response thatwe have received, but we just wanted
to do with whatever limited capacity wecould. That's awesome, and as you
(05:09):
rightly mentioned, we reviewed the bookor did the first appearance of the book
on our wedding day. So yeah, that's super cool. And I can
see that you have together. Thenyou've done a lot of hard work on
your relationship. When it comes tomoney and finances in in the time before
(05:30):
your wedding, since you released thebook at your wedding, how important do
you think it is to discuss thesekind of money matters well before you get
married. Oh, very important.I mean it's one of the things,
you know, Like people say thatlove is something that starts the relationship,
but then going forward to when youstart a family and you stayed together day
(05:54):
to day, money is involved inas simple as you know, buying grocery
is all just having dinner. Yeah, yeah, money is involved, so
you cannot just shy away from it. So I would say it's really important
to talk about money way before youthink about getting into a serious relationship.
(06:16):
So where where do you start?How do you approach this? How do
you like? You know? BecauseI guess a lot of people think like,
oh, no, you know,I'm going to kill our romance if
I start talking about such technical things. How do you you know? When
did you, for example, havethe conversation about, look, I make
(06:39):
this much money and this is whatI can contribute to our future family,
And then you know your partner saidokay, and I make this much money
and I want to contribute this much. When did you have this conversation and
how did you bring it up?So I'll tell you in our case,
it happened after engagement. After wewere engaged, we had a few subtle
(07:02):
things noticing. You know, thingswere discussed on a more simpler level about
what I just spending, habits orvalue of money, the value of money.
But once we thought that we shouldmove ahead, we got engaged,
and I think after our engagement wehad this discussion that how much do you
(07:23):
make? And I mean, Iremember Chivanni had asked me that why do
you want to get married? Imean, it's a very simple question.
Why do you want to get married? Now? Were twenty six twenty seven?
So I told her that right now, currently, I think the amount
of money I'm making, I've reacheda certain level where I can take care
of a family, I can starta family. So it was because of
(07:46):
this reason that I think now Ishould focus on my family life and personal
life. Okay, so you hada bit of a conversation about how much
each of you earns before engagement.Was it like over at dinner or like,
you know, how can you givesomeone advice, maybe a little tip
(08:07):
to someone who kind of feels like, Hey, in our relationship, we
should be at this point? Now, how do I bring it up?
I'll tell you. So what they'retrying to ask is how do you get
the conversation started about such questions?Right am? I? Yes, yes,
I think you know, just jumpinginto the numbers is not the right
way. You know, tell meeverything. How much do you make?
(08:28):
And this is what myself income isdefinitely not going to work out. But
what I would recommend is because youare thinking about, you know, getting
together and spending the live together,one thing that you can do is is
a very simple exercise as a couple, as a future married couple. You
can sit down, you can writedown five things that you want to do
(08:50):
together in future, and then youhave a financial number to it, and
then schedule it on your calendar,like you want to Europe Toodchiani in twenty
twenty seven, and I says howmuch money it's going to cost? And
we are going to save for thisin so many years And because now you
(09:11):
have a shared vision, now youhave a shared goal. Okay, So
financial stability is clearly a major concernfor most people when building a relationship.
I know it was for me andthere are a million things to talk about
when it comes to money and marriage, and so I want to cover a
few in this rapid fire round.And I want you guys to just say
(09:35):
one answer and we'll move on tothe next one. Yes, oh no,
or you know are you guys,yes? Yeah, So I'm going
to read the line out and youguys just tell me one answer, okay,
and then we'll move to the nextone. We won't dig into it
too deep, all right, allright? First, separate bank account or
(09:56):
a joint account. I'm joined,oh okay um. Second, track spending
in a shared spreadsheet or let itlose. You have to track it,
track it definitely, okay. Um. Third, make partner nominee of your
(10:18):
personal bank account, yes or no? Yes, m hmm. Saving or
investing investing, saving, don't intoinvestments? Okay. I think you guys
need to get it more clear onthis one in your relationship. Um.
(10:39):
And then finally, the number onefinancial red flag in a relationship. So
for me, the red flag iswhen the people involved in that relationship,
the couple, they don't talk aboutmoney. They If I had met Sivanni
and there was absolutely no community orno conversation about money and the financial aspects
(11:03):
because it's a it's an important partof life. So for me, that
would have been a red flag becauseI would want a partner who sits with
me, talks about it, plansit, and you know, design that
aspect of life together. Right,that's a that's a good answer. Yeah,
I think Chivanni also has a redflag. So I would say when
(11:28):
you know, money in the relationshipbecomes like a means or the only means
to show love affection, or it'slike a gesture showing thing, you know.
So I think that's a very bigred flag. Relationships are way beyond
just the money aspect. You know, what I thought was a red flag.
(11:52):
But then you know, my husbandand I are deep into our relationship,
have the second child come. Anyway, I think it's a red flag
that you spend money on coffees everymorning, coffee machine. But anyway,
that's just on a side note.Well, now for a couple of scenarios
(12:15):
that are a bit more complicated.Okay, what if the two people in
a relationship have really different ideas abouthow to spend or safe money, Like
what if you don't agree with yourpartners spending habits, like you know,
spending money on coffee every day ratherthan getting a coffee machine. Are you
doomed or how can you sort thiskind of you know issue? And so
(12:41):
definitely you're not doomed because different peoplebring different flavors to the relationship, so
it's good that you one person isdifferent from their partner. So there's no
problem as such as long as thereis trust and that space is given where
the person can spend and save accordingly. But of course there are a few
(13:01):
ground rules that as a couple youboth have to agree on and then just
stick to it. I mean,of course you trust your partner, that's
why you are in a relationship,and that trust should also be extended to
the financial aspect too, right,right, maybe making budgets could be a
good idea about and when he getslistening, yes, what else? What
(13:33):
else? Are some tips of howto tack all this kind of issue.
So, like I was mentioning earlierthat you know, every couple should at
least sit together once a month andmake a monthly budget, decide what are
the expenses going to be and alsoand more importantly, decide where are they
(13:54):
going to put their surplus money?Surplus investments in Yeah, so that they
both are on a regular basis communicating, and they both can somewhat come the
future old yeah, and they bothcan somewhat come together, you know,
from their different point of views andhave a more common, more aligned way
(14:15):
of spending and saving. Yes.Yes, In fact, this will also
bring in discipline automatically. So ifsomebody you know has a problem, that's
maybe the partner is not you know, maybe spending on something which they do
not like. If you're already savingfor something, like you know, you're
investing in something, so already thingsare in check. Yes. Yeah.
(14:35):
Well my husband and I, forexample, we got married, um well,
he was already in his mid thirties, I in my early early early
thirties, but both of us mhad, of course, you know,
more than ten years of our careersand independent lives and independent fine financial situations.
(15:01):
Um. And so we decided todo a bit of a marriage preparation
course in our engagement, um,which kind of brought together our cultural backgrounds
and you know, brought up allthe ikey and difficult conversations basically before you're
married, which I highly recommend,I highly recommend finding you know, a
(15:22):
great marriage coach, as I liketo call her, um to be that
independent partner in your marriage. Wasjust you know, so for you and
tries to help you figure things outbecause I feel like if you consult friends
or family, they're usually on yourside and not on the relationships side.
(15:46):
Absolutely, and they should they loveyou, you know, absolutely, and
so yeah, our marriage coach alsohad a couple of um topics that we
discussed around finances, and I thinkthat was a really great way for us
to start our marriage life together becauseI feel like nobody prepares you really for
(16:07):
this chapter in your life. Butyeah, I think it's amazing that you
guys wrote this book because that's alsolike so easy guys. Um, you
know, if you have someone who'sgetting married, please gift them this book.
Yes, this should be in everybody'sum you know sort of wedding presents
(16:29):
list and just generally, you know, I mean couples can pick up this
book. It's such a great startingpoint to start off a conversation on finances.
Like if you don't know how tohave this conversation, just get the
book and you know, work throughit together. Um. So, yeah,
what if I have more questions?Obviously, what if one person in
(16:49):
the couple earns more than the other, which is usually the case, one
will earn more than the other.Um, do you think all bills and
costs should be split evenly or accordingto earning power? Yeah? What do
you think? You know? HowYes, so this is a tricky one,
(17:15):
and I think this is like anunswered question which everybody has probably these
days in their mind. Yeah,so just to first like answer your question,
like what's the way out? Oneof the options could be because this
would really depend from couple to couple. We also speak with a lot of
people around us, UM, andyou know, it really depends on case
(17:38):
to case. However, one ofthe like things that work out pretty well
is if there are two people whoare earning in different you know, proportions,
but you have like a common percentageof your income. Yeah, so
say both of them can contribute toten percent. Because see the tables cannot
turn any time today. X couldbe you know, earning more to more
(18:03):
or the other partner might be earningmore, so that would would be like
a parity for the couple. Nevertheless, I would like to mention what we
kind of believe in is that youknow, when you enter a relationship or
when you're in a relationship, youreally don't think about splitting costs because relationship
is way beyond just that numerical number. So as long as each one of
(18:32):
you are contributing to the life thatyou're making it, and it could be
in monetary non monetary ways, let'snot you know, go there. So
I think it's more on the communication. I know it's getting repetitive in terms
of how you're talking about communication,but that's the key, right because absolutely
(18:53):
everybody comes from a certain value,you know, mindset of the money also,
So yes, well let me throwin um one more angle and make
it a little bit more difficult foryou. Bring it on all right?
What if you know, say,um, girl meets boy, um,
(19:14):
they get married, turns out boyum. You know. I mean in
India it's a very common thing tohave shared family accounts. And now you're
marrying into a family that has ashared account already. Okay, not with
you, not for your family,but you know his family has a How
do you now decide? Okay,you know, how much do you actually
(19:38):
bring into this marriage? How muchdo you earn? How much am I
bringing into this family, How muchdid I give to my family? Um,
what what about family shared accounts?So you know what we tell our
clients and what we tell are thepeople that we coach and mentor is first
to have separate bank accounts. Ifguy is getting married, because now he
(20:02):
is an adult and of course he'smaking his own money, he has his
business, he has his salary,he should have his own account where his
income is getting in. And likewisewe also tell the girl that who is
marrying should have her own personal accountafter marriage, together they should have their
one joint account where every month,like Siwani said, a certain predecided percentage
(20:26):
is you know, put aside byboth the people, by both the partner,
by the girl and the guy.So this is how the raw structure
or skeleton of the accounting and theyou know it happens. So this way
what happens is the guy is alsoknowing how much he is earning apart from
(20:47):
his family, and the girl whois getting married, she also knows how
much she is getting in her accountby her job or by her business or
by a profession. And together theyare contributing to a share joint account and
they both know what's their share ofcontribution. That's lovely, Evelyn. Your
question is quite interesting because however,we you know, easily say this in
(21:12):
a complex family structure, this mightnot be possible. So I completely understand
you know, where this question iscoming from, because this could be a
common scenario and a lot of familya lot of families. I have so
many friends who have I'm sure thefamily accounts and it's not just say you
know, they're you know, dailywages that go into these accounts, but
(21:37):
it may also hold assets and youknow, investments and all that stuff.
Yes, So how do you bringup this kind of conversation with exactly?
So I would like to mention theresee that structure has been functioning since a
lot of years. So if andespecially because we're talking about Indian setup,
(22:00):
yes, if a new if agirl is entering the family straight up questioning
and you know, fighting against thatstructure is not the best way out.
Maybe you will get your way through, yes, but that not might not
be you know, happy thing todo, right. I I think I
completely agree with you and your structure. It's a very very smart way to
(22:25):
approach it to you know, haveboth of the individuals that are starting a
new family, set up their ownindividual accounts and decide how much are we
both you know, earning. Ithink that is the best way to avoid
any conflict. That's right, Andthat's a good conversation to have with your
own family, you know. Imean many girls also come with their you
(22:47):
know, shared family accounts and thenyes, are they bringing anything in?
How much or you know, it'ssuch a lovely difficult conversation to have.
And I to our audience after listeningto this podcast, to not feel scared
of this conversation. Yeah, andI hope this brings out more conversations around
(23:08):
this and just we normalize these conversationsrather than making a taboo or shying away
from shying away from it and youknow, name calling the different family relations
that you have. It it's avery normal conversation. Yes, it's totally
up to what the couple decides inso many situations. Yeah, it's just
(23:33):
breaking this fear away from this conversation. So, Evelyn, I would like
to add something you were talking aboutthe fear of having this conversation. So
there are two things. First,I believe that every married couple should be
friends with each other. I meanthey should behave like friends, because when
you have that friendship, it's veryvery easy to have difficult conversations. Second,
(24:00):
they should try to work on aproject together. The reason I'll tell
you, the reason I had askedVanni to collaborate with me on this book
was that we get to spend timetogether apart from our day to day work,
and we spend time together doing somethingproductive. And when you do that,
you form a bond, which is, you know, a bond that
(24:23):
you can talk about things and youcan share things. So these two things
I feel are very important. Iftwo people are having good communication amongst themselves,
they are able to communicate, youknow, their mind out very freely.
Even money conversation would become easier.Yeah, yeah, I think yeah.
Building that pace of trust with havinghonest conversations in a relationship will make
(24:48):
it much easier to talk about money. That's a very good point. People
also need to understand what the otherpartner has in terms of their relationship with
money in the past, how theyhave grown up with money, how they
have owned money, or you know, I am a big believer in if
you understand the other person's past withrespect to a certain situation, or think
(25:11):
it's easier to you know, goahead with decision making. That's beautiful,
that's so true. That's really understandingyour partner's view on money because of their
childhood and their upbringing and their struggleor their their journey with money so far.
(25:34):
That's really interesting. And also maybetheir dreams. You know, why
have they been working and making moneyall this while? What did they want
to do with this money? Yes, the Little Book on Financial Clarity,
guys, make sure to get it. And thank you so much Chivanni and
Bavan for your expertise in your timetoday and sharing so openly with us about
(25:57):
your own personal journey money and especiallyin your young relationship. I'd like i'd
like to say thank you guys somuch for being on the show today.
Thank you a pleasure, thank you, and thank you guys so much for
listening. Remember, if you haveany love and dating questions and stories to
share, send them over to usat Love Matters at ew dot com.
(26:19):
And if you like this podcast,don't forget to rate and review us on
whatever podcast platform you're using right now, and of course share it with a
friend. I'm Evelyn Sharma and Ithink Love Matters
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