October 12, 2024 • 36 mins
We've all been there- curled up in bed, feeling like the world is crashing down after a breakup. But what if the breakup is actually an opportunity for growth? Join Leeza Mangaldas and content creator, actor and writer Merenla Imsong in another episode of Love Matters. They dive into the messy yet transformative world of breakups. From understanding self worth to closures, here's a fresh perspective on healing from a heartbreak.
Leeza Mangaldas’ Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/leezamangaldas/
Merenla Imsong's Social handles:
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/merenla_imsong
Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@mimsong1280
Twitter: https://x.com/MerenlaImsong
Credits:
Produced by:
Patricia Szilagyi (DW)
Charulata Biswas (IE)
Khyati Rajvanshi (IE)
Researcher & Editor:
Sana Rizvi (DW)
Audio Editor:
Praveen Kumar (IE)
Project Manager:
Patricia Szilagyi (DW)
Executive Producer:
Melanie von Marschalck (DW Life & Style)
Anant Nath Sharma (IE)
Love Matters with Leeza Mangaldas is a cooperation between The Indian Express and DW, Germany’s international broadcaster.
Learn more about DW: https://www.dw.com/
Get in touch: lovematters@dw.com
Leeza Mangaldas’ Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/leezamangaldas/
Merenla Imsong's Social handles:
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/merenla_imsong
Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@mimsong1280
Twitter: https://x.com/MerenlaImsong
Credits:
Produced by:
Patricia Szilagyi (DW)
Charulata Biswas (IE)
Khyati Rajvanshi (IE)
Researcher & Editor:
Sana Rizvi (DW)
Audio Editor:
Praveen Kumar (IE)
Project Manager:
Patricia Szilagyi (DW)
Executive Producer:
Melanie von Marschalck (DW Life & Style)
Anant Nath Sharma (IE)
Love Matters with Leeza Mangaldas is a cooperation between The Indian Express and DW, Germany’s international broadcaster.
Learn more about DW: https://www.dw.com/
Get in touch: lovematters@dw.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Breakups.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
We've all been there, called up in bed, as if
the world is crashing down on us, as we question
everything we thought we knew about love. I'm Lisa Mangoldas
and this is Love Matters, and today we're talking about
the messy terrain of heartbreak and breakups. I'm so excited
today to me in conversation with Miranda in Song, who
is one of my favorite content creators and someone who
(00:29):
has the uncanny ability to reveal the messier parts of
what it means to be human, the sides of ourselves
that we typically hide or ignore. Miranda's also an actor
and a writer and a comic. She's from Nagaland now
based in Mumbai and I'm.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
A big fan Mirandla. So so I'm so happy that
we're going to be talking today, even though it's about
a rather unhappy topic.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Oh, it can be happy though, right, I mean, yeah,
sometimes a breakup is exactly what you need.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Yes, yes, And looking back, I think all the breakups
I've had, they were exactly what I needed at that
point of time, even though that's not how I felt.
Yeah it doesn't. You don't see it when it happened,
I know, And it's happening. Oh my goodness, it is like,
you know, the whole world is falling apart. I remember
once doing a breakup. My friend came with a bouquet
of flowers and she said, you're going to be laughing
(01:15):
about this in two months, and she's like, you're not
laughing now, but in two months we are going to
have this conversation again. I'm going to remind you how
I told you that you'll be laughing and you will
be laughing.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
And were you laughing?
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Yeah, we were.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Laughing, laughing, you were joking about it.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I think sometimes breakup's unnecessary. I mean, mainly when they happen,
they needed to happen, right. How do you know when
a relationship is over?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
I think it's when things become extremely dull. You're not
excited to talk to the other person, there's nothing. When
it becomes just a habit and a very boring habit
that you wake up and you're like, you know, like
when you wake up, it is a habit to go
to the buttroom and brush your teeth. It's also a
necessity to go brush your teeth. But but you treated
(02:02):
like that, like oh yeah, yeah, ten o'clock or let
me call them and say yeah, good morning, Yes, yeah,
you have a good day too, goodbye, you know, and
it's nothing's coming from the heart, and it's just a
monotonous thing that's going on, and I think you know it.
And a lot of times we are just in denial
the breakup. All the breakups that have happened should ideally
(02:23):
have happened at least two months prior to the date
of the breakup.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Because only two months, that's okay, or maybe even more.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
Because it's just like, yeah, yours.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Also because it's just like you're just dragging this stone,
You're dragging this humongous boulder, and you don't want to
let go because you're so used to dragging that boulder
and now you're comfortable dragging that stupid boulder along with you.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
That's a great analogy.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, I think sometimes breaking up can seem like exiting
a comfort zone, and so we tolerate a lot of
stuff that retrospectively is like how did I endure that?
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yeah? Why didn't I leave sooner?
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
And like, speaking of comfort zones, when you break up,
you also tend to get into the comfort zone of
feeling pity for yourself because there's a lot of ego
involved in breakup that we don't want to talk about,
you know, like how could he decide that he doesn't
want to be with me? That's yeah, there's a lot
(03:21):
of ego involved, and you just want the other person
to feel sad when you when.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
You've been broken up with, so it's extreme measures.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
You either go out and you try to pretend that
you're having so much fun, or you just want to
wallow in self pity because you want the pity of
everyone around you and you just start enjoying being a
victim that now you're super comfortable being you poor, poor me,
Oh please pity me what I've been through that?
Speaker 1 (03:50):
So, yeah, what are you like in a breakup?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Are you like I wish you well? Or plates breaking, kicking,
screaming what are you doing?
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Like how could you do this to me? And then
you know like, oh, go down the wall crying.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Though I have had I have two I've had two
polar opposites, polar opposite reactions to two breakups, and one
was a very mature breakup and one was just me
throwing tantrums. You know, it's so embarrassing seeing it now,
but the tentrum while a breakup. I grew up so
(04:31):
much as a result of it because I just wanted
to be sad. And my friend, I remember, she's She
was like, you know, you just sulk for a month
and you'll be fine. So I sulked for a month.
And after that one month morning period was done, I
was like, wait a minute, what am I gonna do?
Oh no, I'm going to just continue sulking because now
(04:52):
I had gotten so comfortable in sulking, my friends calling
me saying, how are you, How are you feeling? Should
I send you food?
Speaker 4 (04:58):
You know?
Speaker 3 (04:59):
So I started in enjoying like all of this. You know,
I just wanted to just and I was like, I
want him to know that he has made me suffer.
He should feel guilty, should feel remorse, He should be
crying at the fact that he's made me cry. You know.
So I was very very immature until I think after
a point of time I slowly started realizing that with
(05:22):
he's not the villain.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
I also contributed a lot.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
There were things, There were things I shouldn't have done,
there were things I shouldn't have said. I also have
certain problems that I need to work on, like I
have all these attachment issues that I need to work on.
And after that realization dawned on me, then things started
changing a lot for me. Yeah, the growth happened after
(05:48):
I stopped insisting on being the victim, So that was nice.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
I also am often tempted to see myself as perfect
and it's always the other person's.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Fault something doesn't work out.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
But I recognize also that in many ways I am
hard to love. I think like we all would do
ourselves a big service the sooner we recognize that. Yes,
like everyone is hard, every single especially you're living together.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Yeah, you refuse you just refuse to accept your faults.
It's one of the most difficult things be.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I mean, you and I am pretty flawless, but.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
You know you're so stubborn, like, hey, you did this.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Yeah, but you know you did this, which is a
bigger fault than mine. Therefore your fault shadows my fault.
And in a relationship when fights are happening, you tend
to do that like I may have done that, but
you did this so exactly, I want you to apologize first,
and it becomes a.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Competition when it's really I mean, we do well to
acknowledge that, Yeah, both in our own ways neurotic and difficult.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
Yeah, exactly, you know.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
I mean, I think the relationship really asks the impossible
of two people in a way, especially if the expectation
is forever, Like I wonder if I could ever do forever.
What's the longest relationship you've been in? Because when you
would talk abou breakups, you mentioned like it took me
a month or two months, like you should have left
two months earlier.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Which makes me think maybe they were not super long.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
They would It was a three year relationship.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
That's pretty long.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Yeah, but then towards the end it became a long
distance relationship. So this one was my mature breakup, which
I'm very proud of. So three years we were together,
and then it became long distance. We didn't even meet
each other for a year, so and and we became
like buddies.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
We were just friends.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
The romantic aspect of it just died. But I was
so used to having someone to just call and like
talk to, you know, just random stuff like hey, this
just random things, you know, And and and then and
he he was the one who actually pointed out and said,
you know, we're not even romantic anymore. We're like buddies.
You're like my You're almost like my bro like. He's like,
(07:57):
that's not the kind of relationship I want. But because
I get so used to comfort.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
I was like, no, this is fine. This is how
relationships are supposed to be. He said, no, this is
there has to be romance in a relationship. We just
can't be just two friends. And on top of that,
long distance. So we had a lot.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Of chats about it, should we yeh? We should not?
Should we? We should not? I so I have attachment issues,
is what I realized over the course of time. I
was like, no, I don't want to let it go
because we can just let discontinue, you know, long distance.
We talked to each other twice a day. I'm happy
with that. I'm content with that. And he said, no,
(08:37):
you should not be content with that. We should there
should be more. There should be a bond than that.
Bond is just nothing much right now. So finally we
had the chat. We had a conversation, and then we
decided to break up. And it was almost like a contract.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
Ending, you know.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
It was like we were like, we had the chat
and then we had the follow up chat on the phone,
and then we wished each other well yeah, yeah, yeah,
you know, like in between we cried and then we're like, yeah, yeah,
this is the best okay, and we still laugh about it.
We're like, if we had been if we had both
of us had been in person with each other, we
probably would have shook hands after the breakup, you know.
(09:16):
And we continue to be such good friends after that that.
My father my parents were confused. They're like, didn't you
guys break up? Yeah, why does he come home to
just say hello that our friends? But parents been like, no,
I thought you were supposed to hate each other, you know.
But I was nice to just break up and continue
being friends because once that thing went from our heads,
(09:40):
that all. Yeah, the romance actually never worked out. We
actually just became friends over the course of the relationship,
and once we accepted that, we became such good friends. Yeah,
my father was really upset with the breakup. He liked
she really liked the guy. Yeah, was like, and he
never told me, but my mom told me that your
(10:00):
dad is taking time getting over the breakup.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
I think it's interesting how families can also play a
role in our relationship, especially in India, where in a way,
the families tend to get a little bit more involved
in the decisions of their children's partners, where I suppose
some people may even stick.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
It out in a relationship in order to please their.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
You know, because I think people I think there's also
a stigma around divorce, for example, so if you're married,
or you know, if your partners known to the family somehow.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Like there's all of that.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, but it sounds like luckily you haven't had to
encounter those sorts of pressures and you could leave if.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
You wanted to leave.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Yeah, I've been very fortunate because my father's was a
divorcee and then k and my mother married, but then
I was born before they could get married, so they
faced a lot of stigma already. So I guess they
never wanted me to go through any of that because
they were like, yeah, we majorly messed up doing our youth,
(11:04):
but we're not.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Going to control you from with anything. So I've been
very fortunate that way too.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
My parents also divorced, well, yours are still together, yeah,
divorced after.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Yeah, but yeah, so so so you know, they are
very understanding. They were like, they've never pressured me to anything.
They've questioned my choices, my choices.
Speaker 5 (11:27):
Are you sure well we still love you, but uh, okay,
you know, and then they just and they've never pressured
me to get married, which is the best part.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
My mom she told me I don't really need to
get married. Then she told me, oh, you can get
married at the age of forty five. What if I
is also not too late to get married. It's like
she'll just throw random things around.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
You know.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
My father has never brought up a topic of marriage.
He just wants a grandchild, and he's just you know,
it's like, and he'll make jokes around me. You'll be like, oh,
my back is itching, like oh, what happened. It's because
there needs to be a grandchild. There some little ship
he'll make up, you know, and he'll he'll look and like, oh,
(12:13):
look at all these old men with their grandchildren.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
And he'll just look longingly and all of that stuff.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
So I suppose breakups don't bode well when child has
it yet, have the child then break up?
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Well, I must not digress back to the cheery topic and.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Break and breakups. Yes, of course, although it.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Does sound relatively from what I've heard, sofar like you
haven't had a catastrophic breakup and you said, you said
you dealt with one with more melo drama. Yes, yes,
you know, some people's.
Speaker 6 (12:43):
Breakups like involve a devastating situation where there's an end
that is beyond ever recovering a friendship for example.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Have you had like one of those.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Really messy, ugly breakups or have they generally been civilized
to be friends with your exes?
Speaker 3 (13:01):
There's only one x.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
With with whom I've.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
I've had I've not been in proper relationships before this
first relationship, you know, because sometimes you're in these situations
where you think you're in a relationship with.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
This guy, but he doesn't see it the same way.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
So I had a few of those until I found
this guy with whom had a proper relationship. So it
made me feel very secure, very stick. I guess that's
why I had a lot of respect for him, and
you know, like it was my first proper relationship and
all of that, and we just had a lot of
mutual respect for each other, so the respect never went anywhere.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
That's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
So so now we've established excess can be friends.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Yes, have you ever gotten back with an X.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Do you think that the breakap of.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
I don't know separation allowed for perspectives that then enriched
the relationship?
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Tell me the story? Yes, yes, in fact, it's my
current relationship. It's like, we like to call it the
second season of our relationship.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Can we joke about that? Better than season one?
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Yeah? Yeah? And season season two has been a lot
better than season one. And I'm like, am I being
delusional when I say this? I'm being delusion because it is,
you know, you break.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
Up with someone and then you go back.
Speaker 5 (14:14):
You know.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Two questions that came to mind. One what do you
think closure looks like for you? And also what did
the fact that you'd broken Apple ended season one add
to the prospect of season two being successful?
Speaker 1 (14:33):
If that makes sense? Were there lessons or some sort
of way?
Speaker 4 (14:36):
There were a lot of takeaways.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
There were a lot of lessons, and I think with me,
my guard also went up, and I learned to establish boundaries.
I think my head was not screwed on the right
place in season one is what I can say, and
I just let myself go, you know, and I learned
I was like, no, this is I will do what
I want, you know, instead of just being so enamored
(14:59):
by someone and I'm just saying yes, yes, yes to
everything that they're asking me to do. And he picked
up on that and he's like, I know you're doing
you're helping me out whatever because and it's not coming
from your heart. Is because you're forcing yourself to do
all of this you don't have to. And I didn't
realize it, and then it was like, no, wait, I
(15:19):
want to do my own stuff, you know. And I
think the way we view closure closure is never one
step process because we always like, oh, I need closure,
I need to have this one conversation where I let
out everything.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
We let out everything.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
After three days, you remember like some two points that
now you want to add to that conversation and you're like, wait, wait, wait,
I need to call it now say these two points.
Then it keeps going on. So we always see closure
as this thing where we go and tell that person
everything that is bottled up and all our anger and
throwing up anger. Like closure is this projectile vomit of
(15:58):
all your anger and your friend stration that comes out.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
After a breakup.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
But closure is actually just accepting things and not having
to not having the need to go and tell that
person not having the need to say all your hurt,
all your anger, when when you just learn to accept
it's It's like how they say the opposite of love
is not hatred, it's indifference.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
So closure is when you reach.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
That point of point of indifference or you just don't
give a shit, you don't care, you're life. Yeah, it happened,
it's over, it's over, it's in the past.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
You know.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Do you think that in an era of dating apps
and you know, constant sort of opportunities to meet a
new person, et cetera, do you think that we always
owe someone a breakup or have you ever ghosted anyone?
Like when when does an interaction qualify as something that
requires a formal acknowledgment that it is over?
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Oh wow, So I was on a dating app eight
years ago, I think, yeah, for a few months and
I met two people like one date were hello, Hi, yes, cheers, okay, goodbye,
(17:13):
nice meeting you, and that was it, and the other
one was twice once was high hello, yes, yes, nice coffee,
yes yes, nice juice?
Speaker 4 (17:22):
And then should we meet again?
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Okay, we can go watch a movie, watch the movie,
and then and the conversation just trailed off.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I'm not a huge fan of long explanations when it's
not yet work, like yeah, yeah, when do you give
that long?
Speaker 3 (17:38):
And would you say that?
Speaker 2 (17:39):
In your previous sort of most significant relationships you mentioned,
I don't know how many relationships were referring to, but
I've kept track of like two significant.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Yeah, yes, that's it. That's it.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
So have you not yet been the initiator of a breakup?
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (17:57):
That's interesting, yes.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Because I think I would imagine the dynamic changes a
little based on who kind of takes the initiative. Usually
when I feel like, usually if one party thinks they
should break up, it's probably best even for the party
who doesn't want like why would you want to be
with somebody who's.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
Feeling feeling it exactly?
Speaker 2 (18:15):
But I think that the dynamic shifts based on who
takes the initiative to end a relationship.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Do you think that's the initiative also seems to have
more power in the relationship because sometimes I think people
threaten to break up as like a power trip because
they know this person does not want to break up
with them, so they bring up that, well, I'm going
to break up with you because they just want to
feel more powerful in a relationship. Also, the person who's
(18:46):
breaking up seems to be coping with it better because
they have thought about this, they have already. It's only
after they've processed, awaigh the pros and consent everything that
they have come to you with the proposition that we
need to break up, you know, so that person might
heal earlier than the one who's being broken up with.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Am I getting my Yeah?
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Yeah, it's just the time.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
It's just time. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Who has reached their first Who has come to the
conclusion first?
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
And would you say that some of the experience of
heartbreak ends up dragging itself along.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Into the next relationship.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Of course, of course we don't realize the habits, bad
habits from previous relationships that you drag on, not even
previous relationships with It's what you see at home during
your childhood, you know, like things that you've seen your
parents do. Like I think all of us at one
(19:48):
point of time, we've seen our parents go through a
patchy part in their marriage. And I remember even with
my parents when they would argue, my father would get
annoyed and we just leave and go to a friend's
house and stay, like just go to a friend's house
and then come back at night or something like that.
But so as a kid, I was so used to
(20:09):
seeing that that whenever I would fighting a relationship, I
would I would just want to pack up my bags
and leave, you know.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
I would be like, I don't want to see you.
I'm going home. I want to see you.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
I'm you know. And it took me so much to it,
so much time to realize. I was like, shit, I'm
just mirroring what I saw as a child. I'm trying
to be my dad, you know. And so not just relationship,
but stuff in your child childhood. I think it just
drags things that we just keep, things that we see
as kids. We don't realize how much it has affected us,
(20:40):
how much it's just so deeply rooted in us.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
A first, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
And we carry it for so long and then it
comes out at the most unexpected moments.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
Then you don't even realize it.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
That's so true.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Do you think that breakups make you a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Wary in love every time?
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Like did you have a first.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Love where you, you know, like went all in with
such a band and like the love of someone who's
never been hurt.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, do.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (21:10):
I sometimes think about myself and like, one, if I
can ever love with that.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Intensity because I'm just like a bit jaded.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Yeah, you know what I mean. Yes, but I won't
think jaded. It's just you've learned to be mature your
first love. You're just like, oh, tra la la la love.
We're gonna have three kids, we're gonna get married in
two years, and you know we're gonna sail in heaven
and the clouds are just going to fall on us
in flower petals will fall on well, there'll be rose
(21:41):
petals on our path everywhere we walk. You just start
making up these fantasies. But with every relationship you become become,
you become more and more pragmatic, which is the way
to go.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
You have to be practical. You can't I suppose happier.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah, yeah, I suppose so.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
But I think I'm also wary of the fact that
sometimes I might bring trauma from a previous relationship into
a new one where this poor new guy like does
not it might not, And that you know where you're
like cautious about things because you had that experience one, yeah,
but where in a way you also deny the other
(22:18):
person the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
To really be different. Yes, because you're kind of coming
and wounded.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yeah, have you had that sort of experience as well?
Speaker 4 (22:27):
Yeah, because you come in the thing.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
It's like, like you said, wounded, So a wounded animal
will still try to attack you will not always just
be wounded. So you're wounded, but you're still trying to bite.
So they have no idea how to approach you know,
how to maneuver around your behavior. And I think that
happens a lot with me. The tendency to shut down,
(22:55):
you know, is a lot until one day my boyfriend
me is that this silence of yours is it's very violent.
There's no words coming on, but it is very violent
to the other person.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
And that's when I realized that, oh.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
I need to talk.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
I can't talk to everything. I actually need to talk.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
And then I thought and I was like, oh yeah,
childhood trauba. When things would happen, I would just I
wouldn't know how to react and I would just shut
shut down, shut down. You know.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
That's such an interesting and powerful description of silence as violent.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
Yeah. Yeah, And because you always think you are right,
you always think you are right, and when your partner
points out something about you which is so wrong and
you really and when you realize at that point you
come to that real it really shocks you. And you're
also like, wow, okay, yeah, I'm messed up in that area.
(23:51):
I have to work on that, you know, just just speechless.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Where do you turn to for healing or what are
your strategies for healing after a breakup?
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Food?
Speaker 4 (24:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Great?
Speaker 4 (24:04):
And friends?
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Friends yeah yeah, yeah you have.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
Luckily I have the the sharp down friend, then I
have the supportive friend, then I have the listener friends.
So everyone just contributes a little of everything. So the
sharp town friend is the one who just gave me
flowers and said.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
Yeah like that.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
The then the other one gave food and like was
like at work but video calling me and saying it's okay,
Oh look at you. You look so ugly when you're crying,
but it's okay.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
So it's like that.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Wide support network that really gave.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Do you think the drink?
Speaker 2 (24:47):
To that extent, women have an advantage in that we
tend to have the you know, a sharp ability, a
better skill at being vulnerable with each other, like stronger
social connections. I often think like two men like do
brosted and you know, to share their heartbreak. I don't
think they do, you know, I don't think they do.
(25:08):
I think that often a woman becomes a straight man's
like complete emotional world, and then he does not know
what to do when she leaves.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I don't know how men deal
with their emotions because we women, we we gather, we talk,
we cry together. You know, I've had so many incidents
where a friend is crying and I don't know why
they crying. Animals are crying with them, like I'm so sorry,
whatever's happening to you either, So we just we just
feel and we just.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
We let ourselves do.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Yeah. Yeah, that's so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Men. Men, You guys should try it sometimes, you.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Guys should, yeah, get together and cry.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
I'm not even kidding. Do you find that in terms
of what you're looking for in a partner.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Breakups actually serve as a really important learning experience, Like
I often think I learn a lot about myself as
well as what I actually want from a relationship or
partner when I have healed enough to look back objectively
at why it didn't work out. Yeah, yeah, it kind
of gives me more clarity what I actually like. I
(26:16):
feel like all my breakups have been a process, an
education in what I don't want in affretation, do.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Yes, like my heart, But you come out of life why, yeah,
you're graduating with honors every time. That because I also think, like,
what other project.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
In life that is so that can cause so much pain?
Do we then set forth to do all over again?
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Anything with a fifty percent chance of failure or where
you've already had experience pain several times?
Speaker 7 (26:48):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Would you return to with such enthusiasm once? I Other
than love, I don't know a single other thing I do. Yeah, yeah,
you know, a new even though I've just had my
heart not just but do you know what I mean
that we're very optimistic about love as a species.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
We're probably hardwired into it. But I also think we
learned from a breakup.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
And it's hilarious how after a breakup you're like.
Speaker 7 (27:09):
Never being in a relationship ever again, never looking at
a man ever again, and six months later like, oh
I met this guy, you know, like we just become
so dizzy and so happy all over again we are.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Which is quite I mean our resilience is something to
be tolerance.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
That we have.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
I suppose to pro as long as we're not repeating
the same mistakes and.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
You know, moving forward.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
So but then you also kind of like miss parts
of your previous relationship and your present relationship, you know,
you know all of that, Like if you're like with
my previous relationship. We were such good friends also because
we were so from the same community, and that makes
it so much easier, you know, because you have the
(27:59):
same background, have you speak the same language, you understand
the same local jokes from back home, you know, Versus
now I'm with someone who's from a completely different culture,
so he's not going to understand the same kind of
jokes I would crack.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
With the other guy.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
So I would be like, oh, I wish he understood
my jokes, the jokes from my village, you know, those
kind of things. Yeah, but then we would bond in
certain in a way that I would never bond with
the X do. It's techon leaving something behind. I miss
something from there, but I've gained something new from here.
(28:35):
I don't think any guy Hollywood has really sold us
this whole concept of romantic love. Romantic love but I
don't think any other guy is supposed to complete you
like a circle like that. You know, you there's a
lot of adjustments that you need to learn to make,
and women, we come into our full being, our full
(28:58):
form after we cross thirty. I feel in your twenties
you have no idea what.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
On earth is happening.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
You're just going and like you're getting your head hit here.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Then you're going and bumping into something else here.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
You know, you're just figuring out leve You're not emotional
in general, like yeah, yeah, baby's still yeah. In our
twenties and in that thirties, then we start realizing, oh wait,
this is what I want, this is this is this
is what I want, you know, which is why I
don't know.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
I feel women sometimes women.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Who are married too early to get the chance to
get to know themselves.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah, I'm intrigued by the fact that you mentioned the
differences between dating somebody from a similar commial culture versus
somebody who is from an entirely different one. People assume
that the same community makes you more comp like that's
the premise of relationships in there where enogamous culture where
(29:58):
people's families kind of push them in remarrying within the same,
rich and same and yet I mean, it really is
no guarantee for compatibility at all, And actually.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
It's kind of insular.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
And I mean, I'm a big fan of across cultural romances.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
I love hearing about that.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
And so would you agree that maybe while this you
may romanticize certain aspects of having a shared cultural reference point,
would you agree that there's also something to be to
be said for the fact that compatibility, the most important
(30:34):
aspect of it, is actually beyond that. Like you can
have to shed like either it's there or it's not there,
and your shared community community reference point cannot bring that
I think that needs to be there.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
Do you agree?
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Do you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 3 (30:47):
Yes, you can bring in the park through so many
other things. You know, like your community upbringing does not
guarantee that you will end up liking the exact same
thing you You will understand the same jokes, you will
like the same kind of food, But maybe your favorite
country to visit is not the same. You know, their
choices will be different, the tasted movies will not be
(31:10):
the same. You know the way you view marriages will
not be the same. So and that is, and all
of that is achieved through people from another community, you know.
Like I I remember with my ex, I was like,
you know, just if you're going to get married, I've
court marriage is fine. And he was very adam He
(31:31):
was like, no, I think you know, any marriages you
have to get it done in the church, you know,
he was adamant on that. I was like, you understand,
but if you get married in the church, you're going
to have.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
To invite so many people. I'm not dealing with the
stress of that.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
So like these little little things where the little disagreements
start popping up. Yeah, I suppose it's.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Also kind of difficult not to compare one's relationships with
each other.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
So I suppose I didn't mean to encourage you do that.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
I'm sure that with good aspects of both, but also
both relationship interesting.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Is it's so funny like you can meet someone from
a completely different culture and you will if you're going
to find the point of connection, you will still find
the point of connection.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
You know, you can.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Exactly you can still find the connection with someone with
whom you don't even speak the same language.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
That's what I think.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
It's there or it's not.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
Yeah, it's either there or not.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and you know quite quickly, I feel
like it's not about looks, it's not about.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
It's it's just.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
It's like an intangible quality that's either present or not.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
And you can only really tell if you mean, I
don't can tell from a photo.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yeah, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (32:38):
Yes? Yes?
Speaker 3 (32:39):
So what advice would you have for your.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Younger heartbroken self if you could go back with all
the wisdom you have today.
Speaker 8 (32:48):
I think, first of all, just go on, slap give
one time, slap you cry or this guy, this guy,
Oh my goodness, what is wrong with you?
Speaker 4 (32:58):
And then just myself that.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Wow, wow, see, I just have so much I just
want to scold my younger self, like why could why
would you waste.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
Your time on this guy?
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Now? Yeah, you have so much more in life that
you're gonna achieve that you cannot be spending your time
crying over this guy. You know, you the kind of
men this is like the first first love guy okay
with the useless guy, Like I was like, what a
Now I look back, I'm like, what a waste? First love?
All of that energy went towards some useless guy in college?
Speaker 4 (33:33):
You know, like and all of that, and.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
It's and just tell myself that you are going to
go and meet such much better men who are gonna
you're gonna.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
Learn and grow with much better men, and you're going
to actually grow up. You're going to grow so much.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
You're gonna if you see where you're going to be
ten years from now, you're going to be shocked. You're
going to be very impressed with yourself. So stop crying
over this guy. Yeah, I love silly, it's stupid.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Yeah, I think we would all do well to go
back and tell.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
You I think anyone who goes bed I don't think
I don't think anyone would go I mean most of
us who go back in the past will just hold
our younger selves, you know, Like, but if this thing
that you think is the end of the world today, yeah, yeah,
the world is just it's not ending exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
I think that we all do well to go back
and reassure our younger selves.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
That we are going to get through this.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Yes, and Marian, it's been such a pleasure talking to you.
Thanks putting far on this quite personal topic.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Yeah, I opened up quite a lot. And look at
all that opening up that I've been doing.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
But speaking of I'm sure our viewers and listeners would
also really enjoy watching your content.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
So can you tell everyone where they can find you?
Speaker 4 (34:53):
I am available on Instagram?
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Wow with that, even our persons it on Instagram. And
it's my name. It's a not a very easy name
to pronounce. It's Mirren Bla underscore imsong. I think it's
my name. You look on my bio, says aspiring cult leaders.
So don't go follow the wrong cult leader. Is long,
(35:16):
I will say, but I'll be happy to see you
guys on instagrat.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
She's also been in some amazing shows. You should look
out for Miranla. Everything she does is really special.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
I am going to be one on one amazing show
next year, so excited for you guys to watch it.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Thanks so much for tuning into Love Matters. I hope
that you enjoyed today's episode. Love Matters is produced by
Indian Express and DW, Germany's international broadcaster.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
If you have a.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
Question, topic, suggestion, or.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Any feedback you'd like to send in, you can reach
us at Lovematters at DW dot com.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
Please do share this, leave us a review
Speaker 2 (35:52):
A comment, and until next time, this is me, Lisa Mangelas,
and I believe love matters
Breakups.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
We've all been there, called up in bed, as if
the world is crashing down on us, as we question
everything we thought we knew about love. I'm Lisa Mangoldas
and this is Love Matters, and today we're talking about
the messy terrain of heartbreak and breakups. I'm so excited
today to me in conversation with Miranda in Song, who
is one of my favorite content creators and someone who
(00:29):
has the uncanny ability to reveal the messier parts of
what it means to be human, the sides of ourselves
that we typically hide or ignore. Miranda's also an actor
and a writer and a comic. She's from Nagaland now
based in Mumbai and I'm.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
A big fan Mirandla. So so I'm so happy that
we're going to be talking today, even though it's about
a rather unhappy topic.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Oh, it can be happy though, right, I mean, yeah,
sometimes a breakup is exactly what you need.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Yes, yes, And looking back, I think all the breakups
I've had, they were exactly what I needed at that
point of time, even though that's not how I felt.
Yeah it doesn't. You don't see it when it happened,
I know, And it's happening. Oh my goodness, it is like,
you know, the whole world is falling apart. I remember
once doing a breakup. My friend came with a bouquet
of flowers and she said, you're going to be laughing
(01:15):
about this in two months, and she's like, you're not
laughing now, but in two months we are going to
have this conversation again. I'm going to remind you how
I told you that you'll be laughing and you will
be laughing.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
And were you laughing?
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Yeah, we were.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Laughing, laughing, you were joking about it.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I think sometimes breakup's unnecessary. I mean, mainly when they happen,
they needed to happen, right. How do you know when
a relationship is over?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
I think it's when things become extremely dull. You're not
excited to talk to the other person, there's nothing. When
it becomes just a habit and a very boring habit
that you wake up and you're like, you know, like
when you wake up, it is a habit to go
to the buttroom and brush your teeth. It's also a
necessity to go brush your teeth. But but you treated
(02:02):
like that, like oh yeah, yeah, ten o'clock or let
me call them and say yeah, good morning, Yes, yeah,
you have a good day too, goodbye, you know, and
it's nothing's coming from the heart, and it's just a
monotonous thing that's going on, and I think you know it.
And a lot of times we are just in denial
the breakup. All the breakups that have happened should ideally
(02:23):
have happened at least two months prior to the date
of the breakup.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Because only two months, that's okay, or maybe even more.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
Because it's just like, yeah, yours.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Also because it's just like you're just dragging this stone,
You're dragging this humongous boulder, and you don't want to
let go because you're so used to dragging that boulder
and now you're comfortable dragging that stupid boulder along with you.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
That's a great analogy.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, I think sometimes breaking up can seem like exiting
a comfort zone, and so we tolerate a lot of
stuff that retrospectively is like how did I endure that?
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yeah? Why didn't I leave sooner?
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
And like, speaking of comfort zones, when you break up,
you also tend to get into the comfort zone of
feeling pity for yourself because there's a lot of ego
involved in breakup that we don't want to talk about,
you know, like how could he decide that he doesn't
want to be with me? That's yeah, there's a lot
(03:21):
of ego involved, and you just want the other person
to feel sad when you when.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
You've been broken up with, so it's extreme measures.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
You either go out and you try to pretend that
you're having so much fun, or you just want to
wallow in self pity because you want the pity of
everyone around you and you just start enjoying being a
victim that now you're super comfortable being you poor, poor me,
Oh please pity me what I've been through that?
Speaker 1 (03:50):
So, yeah, what are you like in a breakup?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Are you like I wish you well? Or plates breaking, kicking,
screaming what are you doing?
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Like how could you do this to me? And then
you know like, oh, go down the wall crying.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Though I have had I have two I've had two
polar opposites, polar opposite reactions to two breakups, and one
was a very mature breakup and one was just me
throwing tantrums. You know, it's so embarrassing seeing it now,
but the tentrum while a breakup. I grew up so
(04:31):
much as a result of it because I just wanted
to be sad. And my friend, I remember, she's She
was like, you know, you just sulk for a month
and you'll be fine. So I sulked for a month.
And after that one month morning period was done, I
was like, wait a minute, what am I gonna do?
Oh no, I'm going to just continue sulking because now
(04:52):
I had gotten so comfortable in sulking, my friends calling
me saying, how are you, How are you feeling? Should
I send you food?
Speaker 4 (04:58):
You know?
Speaker 3 (04:59):
So I started in enjoying like all of this. You know,
I just wanted to just and I was like, I
want him to know that he has made me suffer.
He should feel guilty, should feel remorse, He should be
crying at the fact that he's made me cry. You know.
So I was very very immature until I think after
a point of time I slowly started realizing that with
(05:22):
he's not the villain.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
I also contributed a lot.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
There were things, There were things I shouldn't have done,
there were things I shouldn't have said. I also have
certain problems that I need to work on, like I
have all these attachment issues that I need to work on.
And after that realization dawned on me, then things started
changing a lot for me. Yeah, the growth happened after
(05:48):
I stopped insisting on being the victim, So that was nice.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
I also am often tempted to see myself as perfect
and it's always the other person's.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Fault something doesn't work out.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
But I recognize also that in many ways I am
hard to love. I think like we all would do
ourselves a big service the sooner we recognize that. Yes,
like everyone is hard, every single especially you're living together.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Yeah, you refuse you just refuse to accept your faults.
It's one of the most difficult things be.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I mean, you and I am pretty flawless, but.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
You know you're so stubborn, like, hey, you did this.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Yeah, but you know you did this, which is a
bigger fault than mine. Therefore your fault shadows my fault.
And in a relationship when fights are happening, you tend
to do that like I may have done that, but
you did this so exactly, I want you to apologize first,
and it becomes a.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Competition when it's really I mean, we do well to
acknowledge that, Yeah, both in our own ways neurotic and difficult.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
Yeah, exactly, you know.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
I mean, I think the relationship really asks the impossible
of two people in a way, especially if the expectation
is forever, Like I wonder if I could ever do forever.
What's the longest relationship you've been in? Because when you
would talk abou breakups, you mentioned like it took me
a month or two months, like you should have left
two months earlier.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Which makes me think maybe they were not super long.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
They would It was a three year relationship.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
That's pretty long.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Yeah, but then towards the end it became a long
distance relationship. So this one was my mature breakup, which
I'm very proud of. So three years we were together,
and then it became long distance. We didn't even meet
each other for a year, so and and we became
like buddies.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
We were just friends.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
The romantic aspect of it just died. But I was
so used to having someone to just call and like
talk to, you know, just random stuff like hey, this
just random things, you know, And and and then and
he he was the one who actually pointed out and said,
you know, we're not even romantic anymore. We're like buddies.
You're like my You're almost like my bro like. He's like,
(07:57):
that's not the kind of relationship I want. But because
I get so used to comfort.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
I was like, no, this is fine. This is how
relationships are supposed to be. He said, no, this is
there has to be romance in a relationship. We just
can't be just two friends. And on top of that,
long distance. So we had a lot.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Of chats about it, should we yeh? We should not?
Should we? We should not? I so I have attachment issues,
is what I realized over the course of time. I
was like, no, I don't want to let it go
because we can just let discontinue, you know, long distance.
We talked to each other twice a day. I'm happy
with that. I'm content with that. And he said, no,
(08:37):
you should not be content with that. We should there
should be more. There should be a bond than that.
Bond is just nothing much right now. So finally we
had the chat. We had a conversation, and then we
decided to break up. And it was almost like a contract.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
Ending, you know.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
It was like we were like, we had the chat
and then we had the follow up chat on the phone,
and then we wished each other well yeah, yeah, yeah,
you know, like in between we cried and then we're like, yeah, yeah,
this is the best okay, and we still laugh about it.
We're like, if we had been if we had both
of us had been in person with each other, we
probably would have shook hands after the breakup, you know.
(09:16):
And we continue to be such good friends after that that.
My father my parents were confused. They're like, didn't you
guys break up? Yeah, why does he come home to
just say hello that our friends? But parents been like, no,
I thought you were supposed to hate each other, you know.
But I was nice to just break up and continue
being friends because once that thing went from our heads,
(09:40):
that all. Yeah, the romance actually never worked out. We
actually just became friends over the course of the relationship,
and once we accepted that, we became such good friends. Yeah,
my father was really upset with the breakup. He liked
she really liked the guy. Yeah, was like, and he
never told me, but my mom told me that your
(10:00):
dad is taking time getting over the breakup.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
I think it's interesting how families can also play a
role in our relationship, especially in India, where in a way,
the families tend to get a little bit more involved
in the decisions of their children's partners, where I suppose
some people may even stick.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
It out in a relationship in order to please their.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
You know, because I think people I think there's also
a stigma around divorce, for example, so if you're married,
or you know, if your partners known to the family somehow.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Like there's all of that.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, but it sounds like luckily you haven't had to
encounter those sorts of pressures and you could leave if.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
You wanted to leave.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Yeah, I've been very fortunate because my father's was a
divorcee and then k and my mother married, but then
I was born before they could get married, so they
faced a lot of stigma already. So I guess they
never wanted me to go through any of that because
they were like, yeah, we majorly messed up doing our youth,
(11:04):
but we're not.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Going to control you from with anything. So I've been
very fortunate that way too.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
My parents also divorced, well, yours are still together, yeah,
divorced after.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Yeah, but yeah, so so so you know, they are
very understanding. They were like, they've never pressured me to anything.
They've questioned my choices, my choices.
Speaker 5 (11:27):
Are you sure well we still love you, but uh, okay,
you know, and then they just and they've never pressured
me to get married, which is the best part.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
My mom she told me I don't really need to
get married. Then she told me, oh, you can get
married at the age of forty five. What if I
is also not too late to get married. It's like
she'll just throw random things around.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
You know.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
My father has never brought up a topic of marriage.
He just wants a grandchild, and he's just you know,
it's like, and he'll make jokes around me. You'll be like, oh,
my back is itching, like oh, what happened. It's because
there needs to be a grandchild. There some little ship
he'll make up, you know, and he'll he'll look and like, oh,
(12:13):
look at all these old men with their grandchildren.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
And he'll just look longingly and all of that stuff.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
So I suppose breakups don't bode well when child has
it yet, have the child then break up?
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Well, I must not digress back to the cheery topic and.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Break and breakups. Yes, of course, although it.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Does sound relatively from what I've heard, sofar like you
haven't had a catastrophic breakup and you said, you said
you dealt with one with more melo drama. Yes, yes,
you know, some people's.
Speaker 6 (12:43):
Breakups like involve a devastating situation where there's an end
that is beyond ever recovering a friendship for example.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Have you had like one of those.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Really messy, ugly breakups or have they generally been civilized
to be friends with your exes?
Speaker 3 (13:01):
There's only one x.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
With with whom I've.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
I've had I've not been in proper relationships before this
first relationship, you know, because sometimes you're in these situations
where you think you're in a relationship with.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
This guy, but he doesn't see it the same way.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
So I had a few of those until I found
this guy with whom had a proper relationship. So it
made me feel very secure, very stick. I guess that's
why I had a lot of respect for him, and
you know, like it was my first proper relationship and
all of that, and we just had a lot of
mutual respect for each other, so the respect never went anywhere.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
That's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
So so now we've established excess can be friends.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Yes, have you ever gotten back with an X.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Do you think that the breakap of.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
I don't know separation allowed for perspectives that then enriched
the relationship?
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Tell me the story? Yes, yes, in fact, it's my
current relationship. It's like, we like to call it the
second season of our relationship.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Can we joke about that? Better than season one?
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Yeah? Yeah? And season season two has been a lot
better than season one. And I'm like, am I being
delusional when I say this? I'm being delusion because it is,
you know, you break.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
Up with someone and then you go back.
Speaker 5 (14:14):
You know.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Two questions that came to mind. One what do you
think closure looks like for you? And also what did
the fact that you'd broken Apple ended season one add
to the prospect of season two being successful?
Speaker 1 (14:33):
If that makes sense? Were there lessons or some sort
of way?
Speaker 4 (14:36):
There were a lot of takeaways.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
There were a lot of lessons, and I think with me,
my guard also went up, and I learned to establish boundaries.
I think my head was not screwed on the right
place in season one is what I can say, and
I just let myself go, you know, and I learned
I was like, no, this is I will do what
I want, you know, instead of just being so enamored
(14:59):
by someone and I'm just saying yes, yes, yes to
everything that they're asking me to do. And he picked
up on that and he's like, I know you're doing
you're helping me out whatever because and it's not coming
from your heart. Is because you're forcing yourself to do
all of this you don't have to. And I didn't
realize it, and then it was like, no, wait, I
(15:19):
want to do my own stuff, you know. And I
think the way we view closure closure is never one
step process because we always like, oh, I need closure,
I need to have this one conversation where I let
out everything.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
We let out everything.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
After three days, you remember like some two points that
now you want to add to that conversation and you're like, wait, wait, wait,
I need to call it now say these two points.
Then it keeps going on. So we always see closure
as this thing where we go and tell that person
everything that is bottled up and all our anger and
throwing up anger. Like closure is this projectile vomit of
(15:58):
all your anger and your friend stration that comes out.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
After a breakup.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
But closure is actually just accepting things and not having
to not having the need to go and tell that
person not having the need to say all your hurt,
all your anger, when when you just learn to accept
it's It's like how they say the opposite of love
is not hatred, it's indifference.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
So closure is when you reach.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
That point of point of indifference or you just don't
give a shit, you don't care, you're life. Yeah, it happened,
it's over, it's over, it's in the past.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
You know.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Do you think that in an era of dating apps
and you know, constant sort of opportunities to meet a
new person, et cetera, do you think that we always
owe someone a breakup or have you ever ghosted anyone?
Like when when does an interaction qualify as something that
requires a formal acknowledgment that it is over?
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Oh wow, So I was on a dating app eight
years ago, I think, yeah, for a few months and
I met two people like one date were hello, Hi, yes, cheers, okay, goodbye,
(17:13):
nice meeting you, and that was it, and the other
one was twice once was high hello, yes, yes, nice coffee,
yes yes, nice juice?
Speaker 4 (17:22):
And then should we meet again?
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Okay, we can go watch a movie, watch the movie,
and then and the conversation just trailed off.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I'm not a huge fan of long explanations when it's
not yet work, like yeah, yeah, when do you give
that long?
Speaker 3 (17:38):
And would you say that?
Speaker 2 (17:39):
In your previous sort of most significant relationships you mentioned,
I don't know how many relationships were referring to, but
I've kept track of like two significant.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Yeah, yes, that's it. That's it.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
So have you not yet been the initiator of a breakup?
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (17:57):
That's interesting, yes.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Because I think I would imagine the dynamic changes a
little based on who kind of takes the initiative. Usually
when I feel like, usually if one party thinks they
should break up, it's probably best even for the party
who doesn't want like why would you want to be
with somebody who's.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
Feeling feeling it exactly?
Speaker 2 (18:15):
But I think that the dynamic shifts based on who
takes the initiative to end a relationship.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Do you think that's the initiative also seems to have
more power in the relationship because sometimes I think people
threaten to break up as like a power trip because
they know this person does not want to break up
with them, so they bring up that, well, I'm going
to break up with you because they just want to
feel more powerful in a relationship. Also, the person who's
(18:46):
breaking up seems to be coping with it better because
they have thought about this, they have already. It's only
after they've processed, awaigh the pros and consent everything that
they have come to you with the proposition that we
need to break up, you know, so that person might
heal earlier than the one who's being broken up with.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Am I getting my Yeah?
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Yeah, it's just the time.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
It's just time. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Who has reached their first Who has come to the
conclusion first?
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
And would you say that some of the experience of
heartbreak ends up dragging itself along.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Into the next relationship.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Of course, of course we don't realize the habits, bad
habits from previous relationships that you drag on, not even
previous relationships with It's what you see at home during
your childhood, you know, like things that you've seen your
parents do. Like I think all of us at one
(19:48):
point of time, we've seen our parents go through a
patchy part in their marriage. And I remember even with
my parents when they would argue, my father would get
annoyed and we just leave and go to a friend's
house and stay, like just go to a friend's house
and then come back at night or something like that.
But so as a kid, I was so used to
(20:09):
seeing that that whenever I would fighting a relationship, I
would I would just want to pack up my bags
and leave, you know.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
I would be like, I don't want to see you.
I'm going home. I want to see you.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
I'm you know. And it took me so much to it,
so much time to realize. I was like, shit, I'm
just mirroring what I saw as a child. I'm trying
to be my dad, you know. And so not just relationship,
but stuff in your child childhood. I think it just
drags things that we just keep, things that we see
as kids. We don't realize how much it has affected us,
(20:40):
how much it's just so deeply rooted in us.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
A first, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
And we carry it for so long and then it
comes out at the most unexpected moments.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
Then you don't even realize it.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
That's so true.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Do you think that breakups make you a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Wary in love every time?
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Like did you have a first.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Love where you, you know, like went all in with
such a band and like the love of someone who's
never been hurt.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, do.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (21:10):
I sometimes think about myself and like, one, if I
can ever love with that.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Intensity because I'm just like a bit jaded.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Yeah, you know what I mean. Yes, but I won't
think jaded. It's just you've learned to be mature your
first love. You're just like, oh, tra la la la love.
We're gonna have three kids, we're gonna get married in
two years, and you know we're gonna sail in heaven
and the clouds are just going to fall on us
in flower petals will fall on well, there'll be rose
(21:41):
petals on our path everywhere we walk. You just start
making up these fantasies. But with every relationship you become become,
you become more and more pragmatic, which is the way
to go.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
You have to be practical. You can't I suppose happier.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah, yeah, I suppose so.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
But I think I'm also wary of the fact that
sometimes I might bring trauma from a previous relationship into
a new one where this poor new guy like does
not it might not, And that you know where you're
like cautious about things because you had that experience one, yeah,
but where in a way you also deny the other
(22:18):
person the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
To really be different. Yes, because you're kind of coming
and wounded.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yeah, have you had that sort of experience as well?
Speaker 4 (22:27):
Yeah, because you come in the thing.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
It's like, like you said, wounded, So a wounded animal
will still try to attack you will not always just
be wounded. So you're wounded, but you're still trying to bite.
So they have no idea how to approach you know,
how to maneuver around your behavior. And I think that
happens a lot with me. The tendency to shut down,
(22:55):
you know, is a lot until one day my boyfriend
me is that this silence of yours is it's very violent.
There's no words coming on, but it is very violent
to the other person.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
And that's when I realized that, oh.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
I need to talk.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
I can't talk to everything. I actually need to talk.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
And then I thought and I was like, oh yeah,
childhood trauba. When things would happen, I would just I
wouldn't know how to react and I would just shut
shut down, shut down. You know.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
That's such an interesting and powerful description of silence as violent.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
Yeah. Yeah, And because you always think you are right,
you always think you are right, and when your partner
points out something about you which is so wrong and
you really and when you realize at that point you
come to that real it really shocks you. And you're
also like, wow, okay, yeah, I'm messed up in that area.
(23:51):
I have to work on that, you know, just just speechless.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Where do you turn to for healing or what are
your strategies for healing after a breakup?
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Food?
Speaker 4 (24:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Great?
Speaker 4 (24:04):
And friends?
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Friends yeah yeah, yeah you have.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
Luckily I have the the sharp down friend, then I
have the supportive friend, then I have the listener friends.
So everyone just contributes a little of everything. So the
sharp town friend is the one who just gave me
flowers and said.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
Yeah like that.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
The then the other one gave food and like was
like at work but video calling me and saying it's okay,
Oh look at you. You look so ugly when you're crying,
but it's okay.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
So it's like that.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Wide support network that really gave.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Do you think the drink?
Speaker 2 (24:47):
To that extent, women have an advantage in that we
tend to have the you know, a sharp ability, a
better skill at being vulnerable with each other, like stronger
social connections. I often think like two men like do
brosted and you know, to share their heartbreak. I don't
think they do, you know, I don't think they do.
(25:08):
I think that often a woman becomes a straight man's
like complete emotional world, and then he does not know
what to do when she leaves.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I don't know how men deal
with their emotions because we women, we we gather, we talk,
we cry together. You know, I've had so many incidents
where a friend is crying and I don't know why
they crying. Animals are crying with them, like I'm so sorry,
whatever's happening to you either, So we just we just
feel and we just.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
We let ourselves do.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Yeah. Yeah, that's so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Men. Men, You guys should try it sometimes, you.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Guys should, yeah, get together and cry.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
I'm not even kidding. Do you find that in terms
of what you're looking for in a partner.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Breakups actually serve as a really important learning experience, Like
I often think I learn a lot about myself as
well as what I actually want from a relationship or
partner when I have healed enough to look back objectively
at why it didn't work out. Yeah, yeah, it kind
of gives me more clarity what I actually like. I
(26:16):
feel like all my breakups have been a process, an
education in what I don't want in affretation, do.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Yes, like my heart, But you come out of life why, yeah,
you're graduating with honors every time. That because I also think, like,
what other project.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
In life that is so that can cause so much pain?
Do we then set forth to do all over again?
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Anything with a fifty percent chance of failure or where
you've already had experience pain several times?
Speaker 7 (26:48):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Would you return to with such enthusiasm once? I Other
than love, I don't know a single other thing I do. Yeah, yeah,
you know, a new even though I've just had my
heart not just but do you know what I mean
that we're very optimistic about love as a species.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
We're probably hardwired into it. But I also think we
learned from a breakup.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
And it's hilarious how after a breakup you're like.
Speaker 7 (27:09):
Never being in a relationship ever again, never looking at
a man ever again, and six months later like, oh
I met this guy, you know, like we just become
so dizzy and so happy all over again we are.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Which is quite I mean our resilience is something to
be tolerance.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
That we have.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
I suppose to pro as long as we're not repeating
the same mistakes and.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
You know, moving forward.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
So but then you also kind of like miss parts
of your previous relationship and your present relationship, you know,
you know all of that, Like if you're like with
my previous relationship. We were such good friends also because
we were so from the same community, and that makes
it so much easier, you know, because you have the
(27:59):
same background, have you speak the same language, you understand
the same local jokes from back home, you know, Versus
now I'm with someone who's from a completely different culture,
so he's not going to understand the same kind of
jokes I would crack.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
With the other guy.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
So I would be like, oh, I wish he understood
my jokes, the jokes from my village, you know, those
kind of things. Yeah, but then we would bond in
certain in a way that I would never bond with
the X do. It's techon leaving something behind. I miss
something from there, but I've gained something new from here.
(28:35):
I don't think any guy Hollywood has really sold us
this whole concept of romantic love. Romantic love but I
don't think any other guy is supposed to complete you
like a circle like that. You know, you there's a
lot of adjustments that you need to learn to make,
and women, we come into our full being, our full
(28:58):
form after we cross thirty. I feel in your twenties
you have no idea what.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
On earth is happening.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
You're just going and like you're getting your head hit here.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Then you're going and bumping into something else here.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
You know, you're just figuring out leve You're not emotional
in general, like yeah, yeah, baby's still yeah. In our
twenties and in that thirties, then we start realizing, oh wait,
this is what I want, this is this is this
is what I want, you know, which is why I
don't know.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
I feel women sometimes women.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Who are married too early to get the chance to
get to know themselves.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah, I'm intrigued by the fact that you mentioned the
differences between dating somebody from a similar commial culture versus
somebody who is from an entirely different one. People assume
that the same community makes you more comp like that's
the premise of relationships in there where enogamous culture where
(29:58):
people's families kind of push them in remarrying within the same,
rich and same and yet I mean, it really is
no guarantee for compatibility at all, And actually.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
It's kind of insular.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
And I mean, I'm a big fan of across cultural romances.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
I love hearing about that.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
And so would you agree that maybe while this you
may romanticize certain aspects of having a shared cultural reference point,
would you agree that there's also something to be to
be said for the fact that compatibility, the most important
(30:34):
aspect of it, is actually beyond that. Like you can
have to shed like either it's there or it's not there,
and your shared community community reference point cannot bring that
I think that needs to be there.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
Do you agree?
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Do you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 3 (30:47):
Yes, you can bring in the park through so many
other things. You know, like your community upbringing does not
guarantee that you will end up liking the exact same
thing you You will understand the same jokes, you will
like the same kind of food, But maybe your favorite
country to visit is not the same. You know, their
choices will be different, the tasted movies will not be
(31:10):
the same. You know the way you view marriages will
not be the same. So and that is, and all
of that is achieved through people from another community, you know.
Like I I remember with my ex, I was like,
you know, just if you're going to get married, I've
court marriage is fine. And he was very adam He
(31:31):
was like, no, I think you know, any marriages you
have to get it done in the church, you know,
he was adamant on that. I was like, you understand,
but if you get married in the church, you're going
to have.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
To invite so many people. I'm not dealing with the
stress of that.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
So like these little little things where the little disagreements
start popping up. Yeah, I suppose it's.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Also kind of difficult not to compare one's relationships with
each other.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
So I suppose I didn't mean to encourage you do that.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
I'm sure that with good aspects of both, but also
both relationship interesting.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Is it's so funny like you can meet someone from
a completely different culture and you will if you're going
to find the point of connection, you will still find
the point of connection.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
You know, you can.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Exactly you can still find the connection with someone with
whom you don't even speak the same language.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
That's what I think.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
It's there or it's not.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
Yeah, it's either there or not.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and you know quite quickly, I feel
like it's not about looks, it's not about.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
It's it's just.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
It's like an intangible quality that's either present or not.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
And you can only really tell if you mean, I
don't can tell from a photo.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yeah, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (32:38):
Yes? Yes?
Speaker 3 (32:39):
So what advice would you have for your.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Younger heartbroken self if you could go back with all
the wisdom you have today.
Speaker 8 (32:48):
I think, first of all, just go on, slap give
one time, slap you cry or this guy, this guy,
Oh my goodness, what is wrong with you?
Speaker 4 (32:58):
And then just myself that.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Wow, wow, see, I just have so much I just
want to scold my younger self, like why could why
would you waste.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
Your time on this guy?
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Now? Yeah, you have so much more in life that
you're gonna achieve that you cannot be spending your time
crying over this guy. You know, you the kind of
men this is like the first first love guy okay
with the useless guy, Like I was like, what a
Now I look back, I'm like, what a waste? First love?
All of that energy went towards some useless guy in college?
Speaker 4 (33:33):
You know, like and all of that, and.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
It's and just tell myself that you are going to
go and meet such much better men who are gonna
you're gonna.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
Learn and grow with much better men, and you're going
to actually grow up. You're going to grow so much.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
You're gonna if you see where you're going to be
ten years from now, you're going to be shocked. You're
going to be very impressed with yourself. So stop crying
over this guy. Yeah, I love silly, it's stupid.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Yeah, I think we would all do well to go
back and tell.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
You I think anyone who goes bed I don't think
I don't think anyone would go I mean most of
us who go back in the past will just hold
our younger selves, you know, Like, but if this thing
that you think is the end of the world today, yeah, yeah,
the world is just it's not ending exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
I think that we all do well to go back
and reassure our younger selves.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
That we are going to get through this.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Yes, and Marian, it's been such a pleasure talking to you.
Thanks putting far on this quite personal topic.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Yeah, I opened up quite a lot. And look at
all that opening up that I've been doing.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
But speaking of I'm sure our viewers and listeners would
also really enjoy watching your content.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
So can you tell everyone where they can find you?
Speaker 4 (34:53):
I am available on Instagram?
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Wow with that, even our persons it on Instagram. And
it's my name. It's a not a very easy name
to pronounce. It's Mirren Bla underscore imsong. I think it's
my name. You look on my bio, says aspiring cult leaders.
So don't go follow the wrong cult leader. Is long,
(35:16):
I will say, but I'll be happy to see you
guys on instagrat.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
She's also been in some amazing shows. You should look
out for Miranla. Everything she does is really special.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
I am going to be one on one amazing show
next year, so excited for you guys to watch it.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Thanks so much for tuning into Love Matters. I hope
that you enjoyed today's episode. Love Matters is produced by
Indian Express and DW, Germany's international broadcaster.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
If you have a.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
Question, topic, suggestion, or.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Any feedback you'd like to send in, you can reach
us at Lovematters at DW dot com.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
Please do share this, leave us a review
Speaker 2 (35:52):
A comment, and until next time, this is me, Lisa Mangelas,
and I believe love matters
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