September 28, 2025 • 38 mins
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Spiracy with political research specialist May Brussel, who for three
years has shared with us or decades of research into
political assassinations and abuses of power in this country.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Soon as you see me turning these up, you're on
not here. So soon as you see me turning these up,
you're on. Good afternoon with this Dialogue Conspiracy.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
It's number two hundred and seven, July twenty eighth, nineteen
seventy five in Carmel, California. I have a guest with
me today, Ted Sharak. I've mentioned his name on Dialogue
Conspiracy the past four years. He's been important in the
Robert Kennedy investigation, and his name has woven in and
out of these broadcasts over that many years since I've
(00:53):
been on this program, and even before when I was
during my research into the Robert Kennedy assassination.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
There's one news item to go into that I do.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Want to do a greater length on Dialogue Conspiracy.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
We won't do it today because Ted's in town. I
want to use the time for him.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
It has to do with two of hl Hunt's sons
that were indicted this week in Dallas, Texas on a
wire tapping and bugging charge wire tapping of Hunt and
his employees. Seven men were indicted in Houston, Texas, including
lawyer Percy Foreman and two sons of the late Dallas
oil billionaire HL Hunt, and they've been charged by a
(01:33):
grand jury of conspiracy and.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Instruction of justice.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Percy Forman is the attorney that took over the James
Earl Ray case, who told Ray that if he didn't
plead guilty he would be barbecued, who forced a man
who did not kill Martin Luther King to say that
he killed Martin Luther King, and Percy Foreman now is
indicted in Texas. The important thing that I'll go into
next week is the fact of the CIA in its
(01:58):
relationship to lit and HL Hunt, Warren Carroll, Jack.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Ruby, the Euston Banks.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
And one of the charges of the Hunt brothers was
that the Central Intelligence Agency infiltrated the family oil empire
and used secret agents to help embezzle them out of
more than fifty million dollars from them. He is saying
the Hunt oil Empire was used by the Central Intelligence
Agency and they hold the CIA responsible for early charges
(02:26):
against them, and that they spied on their late father
and the Hunt Oil company was.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Linked with the CIA.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
The Los Angeles Times this week had headline stories about
the links of mister Rosselli, organized crime, g econom to
the Used Corporation and the links of organized crime to
use the links of the CIA to these organizations, CIA
to the oil people are coming out very much in
the establishment.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Who's the wire services?
Speaker 3 (02:54):
The Associated Press, the United Press has put a lid
on this information for seven eleven years since the end
of World War Two. The interlocking parts of the mafia,
the CIA, US corporation, and now it's coming out, and
Ted is.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Here and we're going into our show.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
But recently there were two news items on Zodiac Press
about Ted Shirak, and I want to read.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Them to you. One was June the ninth.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
I read on klr be it at the time it
came out. Instead, a leading investigator probing the murder of
Senator Robert Kennedy claims he has cracked the case regarding
the missing second gun allegedly involved in the sixty date assassination.
Former broadcast journalist Ted Sharrock says he is currently negotiating
to purchase a so called second gun, which has been
(03:44):
missing for nearly seven years. Sharik says, and other investigators
have alleged for years that had gone other than Sir
Hans was also fired in the Investador Hotel pantry when
Senator Kennedy was assassinated. Private investigators have learned that a
twenty two caliber pistol, almost identical to Sir Hans, was
owned by a security guard who was standing directly behind
(04:05):
Senator Kenny when Kenny was shot. They have suggested the
guard's weapon they have been fired. The failed shot was
struck Kennedy shortly after the assassination.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
However, the guard's gun was reportedly stolen.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
As a result, it has never been available for ballistic tests.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I'll go on.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
There's more to the Zodiac News and I won't read
the whole thing because Ted is here to.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Talk to you today.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
He's located and interviewed inmates and prisons in Arkansas, Missouri
who admitted to stealing the weapon. The point is is
that again, the Zodiac News service on the July tenth
carried a story of Ted's who learns that the Los
Angeles police had deliberately falsified evidence in the Robert Kennedy
assassination case.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
I won't go through.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
These are just two examples of the Zodiac News which
four years, the alternative press has been carrying these stories
of Ted, and we can talk about them now because Ted,
you're the first one to break.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
With the Los Angeles Times.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
The big story now of the work that you've been doing,
So we'll take it from here. I just want to
make the point that the alternative press up till this
point has carried these stories the FM stations like KLRB
and the other FM station. Now the wire service is
the Associated Press, United Person. Eventually CBS and NBC, they're
going to have to get into this, don't they.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Well, there's no doubt about it. As a matter of fact,
CBS is getting into it, very thick and heavy. CBS
News correspondents have come to Los Anglers, so they've interviewed
me regarding the Robert Kennedy case and the new developments.
And in fact, Lee Townsend from CBS News, one of
the chief correspondents that I tried to enlist his support
as early as nineteen seventy made. He who has been
(05:41):
Los Angeles and spent several weeks there. He taped interviews
with me with his assistant, and then they requested to
see the film the Second Gun. The film probe was
shown to CBS News Personal at CBA Television City. Well
two weeks ago. They have taken a report back to
New York. I understand that they are going to explore
the entire American assassination syndrome, that John Kennedy assassination, the
(06:03):
Robert King assassination, Robert Kennedy rather and the Martin Luther
King and of course the attempted shooting which crippled Governor Wallace.
And this is scheduled for November nineteen seventy five. As
just mentioned a boys Los Angeles Times, it's something which
was incredible. They have carried the entire second Gun story
(06:26):
on the front page seven years later after.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
And three pages later, two full pages.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Well, we first brought out the news when I fathered
this investigation based on the developments into the ledged conspiracy
and of course the Second Gun development.
Speaker 5 (06:43):
We were abused and we were ready to.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Hold tell me about it, and we still are.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
About Iron News blackout on this. Now, look what's happened.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
For those of you who don't know Ted Cheray and
don't know about the Second Gun, because we pick up
new listeners all the time, maybe you should explain how
you got into the Robert Kennedy case, and then we'll
go to a few more basic things like your movie.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Because we do have new people breaking in the news.
I don't know you. It's always surprising to me, but
it's never it's a good starting point. It's never too
late to well.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
As I was at the Ambassador Hotel seven years ago
as a reporter and still working in broadcast journalism and
a documentary film work, and I was outside the kitchen.
Speaker 5 (07:30):
Pantry when we heard the first shots.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
I was interviewing Bobby Kennedy's a brother in law, Stephen Smith,
and I entered the kitchen pantry and I heard the story.
Speaker 5 (07:40):
Of the so called girl of polka.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Dot dress that disappeared and others involved with their hand
and I interviewed the witnesses that morning, and I intended
to create a souvend documentary based on the presidential election
of nineteen sixty eight and the candidates and Bobby Kennedy's
aspirations for the presidency. And while during this documentary, I
(08:06):
began to stumble on evidence. Some of this evidence, of course,
UH was a parent to any researcher that was doing
his homework or any professional investigative reporter, and should have
been even noticeable to homicide detectives because there was a
conflict in the eyewitness testimony where Sir Hanna was standing.
(08:29):
You know, Sir Hannah Foyce was placed well in front
of Senator Kennedy and doctor Magrucci. The Los Angeles Corner
brought in the autopsy report which showed that Senator Kennedy
was killed all from behind at raised her contact range.
So this was quite shocking to me. And then, of
course later we had our own newsman inside the kitchen
pantry that worked with me, Jeff Frentz, and he had
(08:50):
recorded an interview with Donald Sulman. Donald Sulman had worked
for kN x T, the CB's television affiliate station in
Los Angeles.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
Shulman was talking about a guard or guards.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Pulling their guns and a guard firing his gun right
behind Senator Kennedy and this guard dropping to the floor,
and Shulman, of course was in a state of apprehension.
Of course he didn't know Sir Hanna or the guard
from anyone else, but it was a very confusing situation
and no one wanted to believe Shulman. They had a
discredit him, intimidate him. And I said, well, how could
(09:22):
a man clear a story like that? So first of all,
I had to establish that there was a uniform security
guard inside that kitchen pantry or guards, and there certainly were,
and contrary to the Los Angeles Police Department book on
the case, the historically deceptive book, especially in the Senator,
there was a guard of extreme right wing persuasion. So
who hired this guard and where did he come from?
(09:44):
And were security infiltrated that night? So we began to
have the threads of the master conspiracy and where do
these threads lead?
Speaker 5 (09:52):
And that's what interested me.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
And I took my tapes after two years of work,
to the well known and respected attorney god for Isaac,
and he was appalled at what he heard. At first,
he was skeptical. He called in the major witnesses, not
only Donald Truman, but Carl Yucker, who was the chief
witness for the prosecution. They mister Yuker was leading Kennedy.
Speaker 5 (10:11):
By the hand.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
He said Kennedy had started to move, and that Senator Kennedy,
the presidential Kennedy was of course facing Sir hann so
that no gunman could get behind mister Yuker, who was
a bank man and a tall man and was blocking,
uh you know, an attempted shooting. At the time that
Sir Hans started firing, there was a pause and mister
(10:32):
Yuker grabs her hand and threw him in a headlock
and over the serving table while the real hitman, the gunman,
was standing behind and dropped to the floor. And people
have to realize this, it was only four or five
feet who was very confusing the situation, and therefore we
had the makings of a real life Who's Done It.
I took all these tapes over to a friend of mine,
(10:55):
a fellow journalist documentarian, Gherard L. Khan, and we emerged
Star Towns and Services to form the first theatrical feature
journalistic film, The Second Gun. There's never been a film
made like this the history of the medium.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
The highlight of the Boston conference was your movie The
Second Gun.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
It was a highlight of the conference last January in Boston.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
There are a group of researchers that presented their opinions, theories,
documents or evidence, But the really highlight was there because
you had it on film. You had the people, you
had the police, authorities. You had the gunman talking himself.
The motive was there, the connections, the subtlety of the
cover up, the people whose hands would give to investigate
(11:37):
these matters, they were all there.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
You could see them. They talk. Certainly, it's all there.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
We had a documentation, and of course that I bought
in because of the world famous cime experts into this case,
so William Harper and later professor of Herbert MacDonald of
New York Wates Harbor Propacadora that corroborated that two twenty
two caliber guns were involved in the assassination. Now, of
course the pressure is building up. Now you know the trouble.
I hadn't trying to get this film before the American people,
(12:01):
and that is why it's very important for your listeners
now that we do as.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
We described the Second Gun.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Because it did open in Boston, it opened in New
York and it got good reviews, nominated for a prize
winning documentary.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Then it was taken off. It's been off. Now we're
going to begin circulating.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
We want to talk about people listening to this show
riding to me and riding to Ted and we'll tell
you where to get the film in your town, whether
it's New York or Second Man or San Luibisco. The
actual making of the film The Second Gun, which is
the story of The Second Gunman a documentary tell you
know some of the hassles what it was to produce
(12:35):
a movie of this kind.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
This is a tremendous job when you realize the forces.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Oh what was just unbelievable because, as you know, we
had a lot of threats. This girl, Betty Dryer, that
was going to cranisfy our tapes. Two men came out
the dark and cut her up pretty badly and demanded
to know whether if IRAQ tapes were which we're going
to be used in the film.
Speaker 5 (12:58):
The Second Gun. And of course the media.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Was questioning our integrity and putting up malicious, irresponsible stories
there were.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Of course, by the interject, not only was the media
doing it, and you're talking about intelligence or counter intelligence,
even your associates or my associates, the researchers have been.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
As big a stumbling block as the media. They must
be part of it.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
They must be in some way insidiously linked because they
have put therefoot, They've tried to put you in the background,
and it's been a testing your strength or courage, because
they had tried to pass the ball to this other
person who co opt you when the case got fig well,
of course you know that Bernard Fnce, the Waldo, the
Committee to Investigate Assassinations must be some sort of a
(13:45):
front organization because.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
The time and the integage that dispense to Wall spent
to try to undermine my investigation. Yes, and William Harp
is the climate expert, and mister Isaac is just unbelievable.
And then Robert black Heieser, the other investigator that was
hooked to the Sir Han defense team, he did a
(14:07):
character assassination job on all of us. Finally we had
enough and we had to hit him with a three
million dollars libel suit. And they were putting out the
worst stories and false toy not only orally, but putting
us into newspapers and magazines. It was an atrocity, and
we put a stop to all this. Sir Hann's own defense,
(14:27):
a team headed by Luke mackissick I, sent Sir Hannah
letter trying to turn.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
Us into crazies and nuts and says, Sir.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
Hann, if that gun, your gun is refired again, it'll
prove that we better not have it refired.
Speaker 5 (14:40):
It'll prove the bulls came from your gun.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
The fatal boat, when everyone knows the fatal boat was
so fragmented in pieces that the even the firearms examiner
in the Los Angeles Police Department couldn't say it came
from the sir hand gun or any other gun.
Speaker 5 (14:52):
And he's the chief defense counsul this and Milke McKissick.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
To keep all this new evidence developed by my seven
year probe and the forensic work probably the great criminalist
Professor McDonald of New York and William Harper Pasadena out
of the courts.
Speaker 5 (15:12):
And now can you imagine.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
This may that they sentenced the defendants their hand with
another gun. Why because evidently that's their handgun was damaged.
So they thought whoever was directing the activities in there
and they are supposed to be CIA links into the
criminal conspiracy section the for a run who was a
special Unit senator and they said, listen, you know, use
(15:35):
this gun. In other words, I'll.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
Never know the differences.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
And that's right, and fire the bullets and you'll get
and put these bullets in evidence and say they came
from the cirt hand gun. But just like they made
a little mistake and left the tape in the Warner
Gate inadvertently. You know these smart smart gun they they
numbered the gun they were using. Then they got caught
in the fiasco. So they created one eye. And that's
when the people should be shocked because they put out
(15:59):
still it's oh wow. In other words, it's all tampering,
phony evidence.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
But then the beginning in Dallas, Texas where they had
a German Mauser and twenty four hours later it's an
Italian gun.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
It changes nationality, changed its shape, and you know right there.
But this is years later.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
And people are like yourself, stayed with it and remember
the past and just stayed with what you saw the
ambassador and pursued it, you know, with.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
The John Kennedy thing when he was assassinated.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
The car was destroyed within forty eight hours, and nobody
asked any questions or.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
Do you think the citizens of California would appeal to
the governor and the Attorney General's office. Of course, Younger
is the one that prosecuted because they say it's just
an error. Even if it is an error, which we
know isn't it's the big lie technique. Do we establish
in a democratic society justice by so called error, in
other words, that you sentenced defenders with another gun once
(16:48):
you have the murder weapon. This is incredible.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Well, the attorney for sir hanser And, because they had
an interview in the newspaper and I showed it to
I think last year when the thing the articles came
out about the second gun and the autopsy discrepancies, he said,
believe it, if my client didn't kill Robert Kennedy, he
came there with the intent to do so. Well, if, sir,
and it appears has been programmed or hypnotized to forget
(17:13):
what happened. We don't know if he came with the
intent to kill anybody at all, or just to take
the reb Oswald didn't go with the intent to kill
anybody when he went to the book.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
Well, of course we know that hypnotism was involved in this.
You know, the painful experiences of his past exploited, and
he's coached and coaxed and cohersed, and they used even
drugs and mysticism and hypnotism. Of course, why you know
those diaries not even written by sir hand, They are
(17:43):
allegedly forged for he's under some sort of an influence,
and of course there is leads in this, and there's
been an investigation that's been going on. Betsy Langman in
New York wrote, the Harper's article has brought in a
famous psychiatrist, doctor Hermie Spiegel, and he says, Sir Hannes
is under a fifth degree. Of course, I'm I'm not
(18:04):
an expert in this, but as a layman talking fifty degree,
which is a real deep and hypnotic state. And that's
why Sir Fan says, I can't remember. I don't know
how I got there. Now, Sir Hannah is supposed to
be highly intelligent, maybe emotionally disturbed, but he has an
a passionate nature, and he has an interest in what's
going on, and he doesn't know how he got there.
How he find a gun. And his mother said that
(18:26):
if he would cut, she'd be cutting some meat and
it'd be a little bit of blood. He'd be sensitive
that that he was a highly sensitive use. And therefore
he was used as a dupe and as a decoy.
And I have no doubt we were gonna probably see
a Dyak Jack Ruby situation.
Speaker 5 (18:43):
They were gonna knock out man.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
But yeah, Kennedy backed up towards the ice machine, and
the real gunman panicked and saw that, and he fired
those professional shots down to up Mary and they right
to left, back to front. And you think he stayed
in there. He got out of the room and he
got powdered in his eyes. Now the Los Angele, the
police department, doesn't you know he dropped his tie. And
then he told the Los Angele, the police department, Oh,
(19:05):
I didn't get my gun out. And when the FBI came,
he didn't know what they knew or didn't know. He said, well,
when I got up from the floor, I took out
my gun. Later, sixteen months after the tragedy, when he
wasn't aware that I was undertaking an extensive investigation and
was aware what Donald Shulman saw a security guard pulling
his gun and finding his gun and the deep powder
(19:26):
burns all in behind Senator Kennedy's rear ear, which would show,
of course that the gun was right up there from
back to front. Well, this guard, Fane Eugene Caesar, of course,
admitted that he pulled that gun out instantly, just as
soon as the shots were fired. And then he tells
the the DA investigators. They don't do a lighted at
(19:47):
their cast. They cover up. He pulled his gun only
when he got up from the floor. So they were
contradictions and variances in his stories which were not investigated.
And the police said there weren't any right wing extra
miss inside.
Speaker 5 (20:00):
The kitchen pantry. And we all know the thing. Eugene
Caesar is a political right wing extremist.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
That I have so on your movie, you haven't seen
them saying Kennedy's giving country.
Speaker 5 (20:09):
That the Niggers.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
Yeah, that's right. That's why people must see The Second Gun.
And I origin them to get in touch with American Films,
American Films with the ray Axelrod's office at nine six
oh one Wilster Boulevard at nine six o one Wilster
in Beverly Hills, Sweet five to one to two. The
fact they can phone them at area code two one
three two seven four seven five. But if they write
to American Film and stay, we demand to see the
(20:32):
Second Gun film. Prob You must see the sophisticated full
length feature and you will see for yourself the evidence
which is forcing May because May is Russell, of course,
is one of the foremost researchers in America and realizes exactly.
Speaker 5 (20:47):
Where all the strings go to.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
And that's why we we have work so long and
so hard to cooperate and funnel everything to you, because
you can see the foundation and the layers, and it
is very interesting and I feel that this film must
be brought out to every community in America. There's no
doubt now that the pressure is on to reopen that
John F. Kennedy assassination, Martin Luther King, George Wallace, and
(21:11):
of course I know now that the Robert Kennedy case
will be reopened, and I predict it will be reopened
within less than ninety days, in probably sixty days.
Speaker 5 (21:21):
And if it isn't open right here.
Speaker 4 (21:23):
In through California, through the legislature, the District Attorney's offers
now is getting the pressure. Joe Bush just died on
the day he had decided just.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
The district let me read this argument in Los Angeles
is not the whole thing.
Speaker 5 (21:38):
But because I'll be a congressional investigation.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Sunday morning, July thirteenth, nineteen seventy five. It begins just
before his death.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
On June twenty seventh, District Attorney Joseph Bush had considered
ways to reopen aspects of the case.
Speaker 5 (21:51):
Amazing.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Now that is the outline of my Murderville, USA. You
see doctor Joseph Bush.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Here's an argu by William far and John Kendall.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
And yeah, nobody makes the link that Joseph Bush, who
was young, died because he was going to open it up.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
That that possibility is And I.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
Think I think he told Attorney General Younger and the
last thing Younger wants is for the case to be reopened.
After all they put on they knew that if anything
was ever discovered in this case, if anything was ever blown,
that they would be held accountable. Well, today they are accountable.
And you must write Governor Jerry Brown today and say
that you want him to see the second gun film
(22:28):
and you want this case reopened and an investigation of
Attorney General, the Younger's office and Robert Holton, who were
in charge of this investigation, and when they had the
opportunity to look at this evidence.
Speaker 5 (22:40):
You know, it's one thing to discredit me, is an
investigator report.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
Even though we did a highly professional journalistic investigation, they
couldn't discredit mister Harper, the crime expert. I brought her
the piece because he'd worked for them, their District Attorney's office,
the United States Naval Intelligence.
Speaker 5 (22:55):
So what did they do?
Speaker 4 (22:56):
Made you know, you know the old Yes, after all
you you've researched this better than any other researcher in America.
Speaker 5 (23:04):
They discredited the evidence.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Bony lies research, saying that people could get at the
evidence and tamper with the evidence.
Speaker 5 (23:11):
Now this is a big lie technique.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
Now, now the pressure is on because even though Bush
went to his grave, far got the story out that
Bush had had it enough. All this response, all the
good work, all your listeners, writing the Congressman center in
Kennedy's office, writing Governor Garry Brown, and now hoping that
they will demand to see the film the Second Gun.
Speaker 5 (23:34):
It forced.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
I think that that Joe Bush was going to reform
Chief Davis. He was going to reopen the case. But Younger,
of course, is getting involved with I call it, and
he wants a political job.
Speaker 5 (23:43):
He doesn't want this case.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
And I believe that Younger and Bush were fighting over
this matter because Younger put Bush up to the cover
up in nineteen seventy one. Bush had an opportunity to
get at the truth and opened up, and yet they.
Speaker 5 (23:56):
Count five months and they put a lid on it.
It was a whitewash up.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
The powers are too strong because, for one thing, Ronald
Reagan said that he believed that assassinations shouldn't be told
the public.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
They should have what they need to know.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
And I read on Dialogue Conspiracy your lawsuit against chief
of Please Davis and.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Evil Younger a few years ago, where you.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Said that they do not have the right to decide
what we need to know. How come that lawsuit never
wants her? Did it just stop what happened? No?
Speaker 4 (24:22):
Well, one of the reasons is I had a great
deal of respect for attorney guard for Isaac, and I
didn't have a big enough power base. But when Attorney
Guard for Isaac, after co operating with him over an
extensive period and turning over all my materials to him,
was called upon by the sir Han family sir Han's
mother married Sir Hann to enter the case, I felt
(24:44):
it would be the national interest. He took the case
without compensation, made that if he was representing the defendant
for a huge trial, that all my investigation would be
contributed in the interests of truth and justice. So the
story would get out and we could subpoena all these witnesses.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
So in a case against.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
That, mister Isaac, obviously Sir Hannes representing Sir Hanne, he
had a greater chance to get the case re opened
based on the new evidence because he is the dependent
directly involved.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Yeah, but the problem is this, you have this, we didn't.
The problem you see, this is the problem which you have.
This is the problem that Congress and Michael Harrington has.
He says, do you owe the honesty of the constituency
and the laws of the land or to the CIA,
which says everything's national security and their committing crimes in
their lyne the major laws. It more important at the
(25:39):
time opening up Sir Han's case in that pecking order,
I think was your case on how much can the
public officials hold back on criminal matters?
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Do they have to decide right to decide what we
know and what we need to know?
Speaker 3 (25:54):
You see, now we have Ronald Reagan, who could be
our next president. And this is why I think evil
Young and these people are pushing forward so they can
get Reagan into there. And Reagan says, you don't have
the right to know, And that's what.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Was primary in your case. There was do they have
the right to decide what evidence?
Speaker 5 (26:09):
And I should have.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
Had support from a concerned citizens committee or the ACL
you and instead, and there were a lot of you
were talking, and they put up this missus palmerants and
they agitated her. She's a wealthy benefactor, she's done a
lot of good, but they put her up the fence
to walls to agitate and create assension between mister Harper
and myself and Kaiser and everybody went into mister Harper's house.
(26:34):
And mister Harper, of course is a brilliant man. He's
a genius, but he's a man of temperament, and he's
of ill health. And they confused this poor man. Of course,
his scientific work stands on his own. So I brought
you a year ago the first evidence, new evidence.
Speaker 5 (26:51):
I said, Okay, let.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
All these kooky people and all these plagiarists and these
character assassins. And I'm sorry to say of them are vultures.
Some are responsible, irresponsible, some are very some are sincerely motivated.
But let them do all the damage they want. I
presented Professor mcgonald independent Ballastan photographs of the bolts, and
(27:13):
he gave me a new half of David, which normally
proved that there were two different types of guns. You see,
there are two twenty two caliber guns, but two guns
were using the assassination, which of course indicated a second gunman,
but they were of different ammunition.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
You know.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
So but you see, you have to understand that I
didn't foresee that, Luke McKissick. Well, I did in a
way that was I couldn't control the situation. Luke mckisson
of course stayed in in the case when God reentered,
and then he stayed within sight and he began to
tear at the entire fabric and destroyed mister Isaac's representation,
(27:53):
so that when this went before the California State Supreme Court,
McKissick made sure that Isaac was eliminated from the case.
And the courts never got the information, the new evidence,
and they never got the fact that now they used.
So it took another well over a year and a
half to convince mister Isaac in good conscience to take
this case. And Marries her hand came there crying on
(28:14):
her hands and knees, and you know what, they had
spent another year since Isaac has been in and took
his time to study this matter and bring it up.
They brought an alert Lowenstein and Lowenstain while asked to
see the film and making all kinds of commitments and
prompts this to me, and I believed in him sincerely
and turned them over to other researchers, including Lilian Castelano.
(28:37):
That's done a lot of work and she disseminates a
lot of information and she gathers all this and she
helps everyone. And I gave an introduction to mister Isaac
and he met with my associates Gerard al Conna, Beverly Hills,
and he asked for all the data, all the correspondents
he would get, he'd get correctial investigation and give us
media exposure. And then he put the clamp on us
and he put pressure on me to be disassociated. Now
(28:59):
behind the scenes, he says he hadn't did want anything
to do. He didn't go to the Kennedy's. He had
gone to the Kennedys. He was rejected, but he said
he had nothing to do with Sir han Case. He's
doing independent out of the syen case fabrication. He went
in and out of Mary Sir Hans home. He sent
emissaries other people to the Sir han family he was
(29:21):
and offered them funding and all the money they would need,
and he would provide all the direct help that Elerd
Lowenstein could get control of the So we wonder what
is going on here?
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Well, I think one of the answers to what's going
on to the Sir hand case is one of the
motives came out in the Los Angeles Times has been
the press this week. It was the fact that Robert
Kennedy's Attorney General, was furious that the mafia and the
CIA were blood brothers, that they work together. Now the
Mafia was San Giacano and Roselli working with the US Corporation,
Robert may Who and the other agents of the US people.
(29:56):
And in the Surian case, the first attorney for Sir
hanser And was Grant Cooper, who represented Roselli and the mafia,
who came right out of the youth's nest.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Robert what a mess.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
I first stipulated to everything and he didn't bring in
any other experts.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
So he was like Perst Grant Cooper was the sir
answer what Percy Foreman was to James rell Wright But
the point is that Robert Kennedy wanted to break the CIA.
His brother had had ordered him as the Attorney General
to get rid of the top people the CIA after
they have pigs. He didn't want the mafia in the CIA.
He didn't want to say a period, much less the mafia.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
So now in the can of worms, you have, sir answer.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
And used by Lockheed the guard fame Caesar comes from Lockheed.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Blood brother part of Parcels, the youth corporation.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
He came home at five in the evening. His wife says,
you're supposed to guard Robert Kennedy.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
He was not a regular empoint of Lockey. He was
what they call the maintenance man.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Well, we didn't know in sixty eight what a plumber
was and CIA terms, what's a maintenance man?
Speaker 2 (30:55):
A plumber? Where did he come from?
Speaker 5 (30:57):
See?
Speaker 3 (30:57):
So the fame sees a link to the us CIA
links I think are so would be so strong and
the lawyer for sir hand and everything that. I think
the reason they try to co opt you or push
you out is to make it a low level plot,
like just a civil organized crime and leave the CIA
used corporation out of it. See they'll pin it on
the MAFI if they have to, but not the use.
(31:19):
And this is why they're pushing you around, because you
and I are not afraid to say, Yeah, the committee
of forty five men order these murders, the President orders
these murders and put the responsibility where it is right
at the top.
Speaker 4 (31:32):
Well, you know, there's hanky panking political practice if this
isn't so irrespective of all the new evidence. When finally,
after all these years and heartaches and headaches, when God
bids it that deserves thanks from every American finally brings
the writ before the California State Supreme Court and the
High Court is told defended in this case, and they
see exhibit is sentenced not with the gun allegedly taken
(31:55):
from him, which has a serial number H five three
seventy five, but there's other guns at so too, which
was destroyed by the Los Ange Police Department a month
after the assassination. And then they changed the files made
because they the record showed that this gun was supposed
to be available during the court during the sir hand
court trial, and therefore they said, oh it was changed
and it was destroyed a year later. So one way
(32:17):
or another, the only gun links scientifically to the case
has been destroyed. Now ISAAC tells the High Court, and
the Court doesn't even comment and rejects it. So if
you don't think there's political.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Pressure, how about the bullets?
Speaker 3 (32:28):
If there are thirteen bullets and Sir Han's gun shoes
eight and the High Court doesn't take that as a
fact of conspiracy.
Speaker 4 (32:37):
Right now, with the Los Angeles Times, they've moved two
stories inside of a week on this because they turned
over the American Academy Forensic Scientists, you know, which was
they wrote me a thank you.
Speaker 5 (32:47):
Letter that it was your second gun.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Yes, they called me there, they called the panel discussion,
and doctor Robert Joeling, the Evident President, convened a special
investigative committee. And your listeners should know this investigated committee
by the American Academy Forensic Scientists recommend which is you're
leading scientists to testify in courtrooms, ballistics experts, crime expert, criminalists, pathologists.
(33:12):
They have recommended not reopening the case. And of course
ironeous falistics evidence has been introduced in the American courtroom. Therefore,
I dv from what I said several years ago that
every citizen's right for affair for a just trial under
the law is now in jeopardy because Ironi's ballistics are firearms.
Evidence has been introduced in American courtroom. You know, in
(33:33):
a stellar case criminalist William W. Harper, Pasadena and the
world famous crime expert, Professor Herbert MacDonald of Corning, New York.
They're both willing to testify. In fact, so with Lowell
Bradford expert that concerning the extensive investigation and scientific discoveries.
And this statement by mister Harper is very important.
Speaker 5 (33:55):
The science of criminalistics died.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
Too when they buried Kennedy, though, was responsible get away
with this complete breakdown of the legal and judiciary processes.
Well established teachings of criminalistics and forensic pathology were cast
aside and bypassed in favor of a more expedient solution
and unfortunately an erroneous oversimplification. So who is responsible for
(34:20):
this big whitewash. Let's bring Chief Davis and it is
the Attorney's office and ever younger at all these ads
into a hearing, and a full congressional hearing. Now is
the time to write Senator Cranston, Senator Tunny, your congressman,
and of course the Bombard, American Films and Beverly Hills.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
So those of you who.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
Want to we're talking pretty fast, and maybe you don't
have a pencil, and we started, you didn't leave together.
In the meantime, write to KLR and B and send
a self addressed envelope and I'll tell you where you
can get the film in your hometown. And if possible,
maybe ten sch Rock would come and speak to the colleges.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Of the fall.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
Open it in the fall, because I know a lot
of your in summer vacation now and have the second
gun in your communities like Sacramento, Salt Lake City, Ohio,
and wherever we send these tapes, get the second gun
there and Ted will get there and talk about this evidence.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
You know, I've been doing this conspiracy.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
Work for eleven years, and the Los Angeles Times story
broke in.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
My family called.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
Me this week and they began to believe, well, maybe
there was something to the truth that I've been saying,
because they don't read the Berkeley Barn, the LA Free Press,
the alternative news media. But the LA Times had the story.
And the thing that shocked my family the most was
a picture of Robert Kennedy's coat with a sleeve cut off,
and it has under the question.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
How many bullet holes might be in it if it
were found and the sleeve was missing.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
This is a very simple thing like thirteen bullets and
Sir Hans gun.
Speaker 5 (35:49):
Shoos eight times reported. When did I reported in.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Nineteen seventy one, Ted had a report he says sealed
in heavy wax barrels in the Los.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Angeles Hall of Justice, part.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Of record, including Robert Kendy's clothes with the left arm
sleeve missing.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
The description is not for public consumption. What of the
fohemer DA's motives?
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Now you take the parallel, youngest, take the parallels. John
Candy's coat is locked up for seventy five years. John
Colly's said to the dry Clinger, so the Warrant Commission
couldn't use it.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
They cut off his sleeve.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
They took in Dallas, the car away, the lamp post away,
the streamside, the autops, the X rays were locked up.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
All this is important. It was they had knocked up
John Candy's coat.
Speaker 4 (36:31):
You cut this, you think that it was some sort
of cancer or disease the way they ran from it.
Speaker 5 (36:38):
But now it's on the front page with pictures and
proof that what I was saying is proven. And they'll say, well,
I was saying with some crack.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Now the sleeve was there's thirteen bullets in the ambassador.
There could have been many more. So the point is
that it was the clear cut case.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
Here was a sleeve thirteen bullets and how could they
sit it an eight bullet revolver? And the autops are
again a lot of people don't know. We haven't brought
up we have a nit or two. The autopsy confirm
the ballistics, the difference in the build of mister Wisel
and mister Kennedy center Kennedy right, certainly.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
Well, that's why I think that with all this new
information and can affirming the evidence which has been developed,
people should write and bone and wired the Senator's comment
and see the second gun film. Of course, they can
get in touch with Governor Jerry Brown's office and Sacramento
and demand that this case be reopened and flood the
Attorney General's office and the District Attorney's office.
Speaker 5 (37:31):
In Los Angeles.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
And of course, if we will bring the second gun
to your community, and I will come and speak there,
and I suppose a maze within the limits of time
might be able to come to and discuss this.
Speaker 5 (37:44):
Right from the theater stage.
Speaker 4 (37:45):
So it's very important now for the people to get
this second gun out into every community because I think
the truth is going to make us strong.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Thank you for coming to I'm really glad you're in Carmel.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
Then just dropped in for one day, and I'm glad
you could be here because I was going to do
the entire show on the new evidence of the second gun.
But it's better for you to hear him and meet him,
and I'll see you next week on Dialogue Conspiracy
Spiracy with political research specialist May Brussel, who for three
years has shared with us or decades of research into
political assassinations and abuses of power in this country.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Soon as you see me turning these up, you're on
not here. So soon as you see me turning these up,
you're on. Good afternoon with this Dialogue Conspiracy.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
It's number two hundred and seven, July twenty eighth, nineteen
seventy five in Carmel, California. I have a guest with
me today, Ted Sharak. I've mentioned his name on Dialogue
Conspiracy the past four years. He's been important in the
Robert Kennedy investigation, and his name has woven in and
out of these broadcasts over that many years since I've
(00:53):
been on this program, and even before when I was
during my research into the Robert Kennedy assassination.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
There's one news item to go into that I do.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Want to do a greater length on Dialogue Conspiracy.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
We won't do it today because Ted's in town. I
want to use the time for him.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
It has to do with two of hl Hunt's sons
that were indicted this week in Dallas, Texas on a
wire tapping and bugging charge wire tapping of Hunt and
his employees. Seven men were indicted in Houston, Texas, including
lawyer Percy Foreman and two sons of the late Dallas
oil billionaire HL Hunt, and they've been charged by a
(01:33):
grand jury of conspiracy and.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Instruction of justice.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Percy Forman is the attorney that took over the James
Earl Ray case, who told Ray that if he didn't
plead guilty he would be barbecued, who forced a man
who did not kill Martin Luther King to say that
he killed Martin Luther King, and Percy Foreman now is
indicted in Texas. The important thing that I'll go into
next week is the fact of the CIA in its
(01:58):
relationship to lit and HL Hunt, Warren Carroll, Jack.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Ruby, the Euston Banks.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
And one of the charges of the Hunt brothers was
that the Central Intelligence Agency infiltrated the family oil empire
and used secret agents to help embezzle them out of
more than fifty million dollars from them. He is saying
the Hunt oil Empire was used by the Central Intelligence
Agency and they hold the CIA responsible for early charges
(02:26):
against them, and that they spied on their late father
and the Hunt Oil company was.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Linked with the CIA.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
The Los Angeles Times this week had headline stories about
the links of mister Rosselli, organized crime, g econom to
the Used Corporation and the links of organized crime to
use the links of the CIA to these organizations, CIA
to the oil people are coming out very much in
the establishment.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Who's the wire services?
Speaker 3 (02:54):
The Associated Press, the United Press has put a lid
on this information for seven eleven years since the end
of World War Two. The interlocking parts of the mafia,
the CIA, US corporation, and now it's coming out, and
Ted is.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Here and we're going into our show.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
But recently there were two news items on Zodiac Press
about Ted Shirak, and I want to read.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Them to you. One was June the ninth.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
I read on klr be it at the time it
came out. Instead, a leading investigator probing the murder of
Senator Robert Kennedy claims he has cracked the case regarding
the missing second gun allegedly involved in the sixty date assassination.
Former broadcast journalist Ted Sharrock says he is currently negotiating
to purchase a so called second gun, which has been
(03:44):
missing for nearly seven years. Sharik says, and other investigators
have alleged for years that had gone other than Sir
Hans was also fired in the Investador Hotel pantry when
Senator Kennedy was assassinated. Private investigators have learned that a
twenty two caliber pistol, almost identical to Sir Hans, was
owned by a security guard who was standing directly behind
(04:05):
Senator Kenny when Kenny was shot. They have suggested the
guard's weapon they have been fired. The failed shot was
struck Kennedy shortly after the assassination.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
However, the guard's gun was reportedly stolen.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
As a result, it has never been available for ballistic tests.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I'll go on.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
There's more to the Zodiac News and I won't read
the whole thing because Ted is here to.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Talk to you today.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
He's located and interviewed inmates and prisons in Arkansas, Missouri
who admitted to stealing the weapon. The point is is
that again, the Zodiac News service on the July tenth
carried a story of Ted's who learns that the Los
Angeles police had deliberately falsified evidence in the Robert Kennedy
assassination case.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
I won't go through.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
These are just two examples of the Zodiac News which
four years, the alternative press has been carrying these stories
of Ted, and we can talk about them now because Ted,
you're the first one to break.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
With the Los Angeles Times.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
The big story now of the work that you've been doing,
So we'll take it from here. I just want to
make the point that the alternative press up till this
point has carried these stories the FM stations like KLRB
and the other FM station. Now the wire service is
the Associated Press, United Person. Eventually CBS and NBC, they're
going to have to get into this, don't they.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Well, there's no doubt about it. As a matter of fact,
CBS is getting into it, very thick and heavy. CBS
News correspondents have come to Los Anglers, so they've interviewed
me regarding the Robert Kennedy case and the new developments.
And in fact, Lee Townsend from CBS News, one of
the chief correspondents that I tried to enlist his support
as early as nineteen seventy made. He who has been
(05:41):
Los Angeles and spent several weeks there. He taped interviews
with me with his assistant, and then they requested to
see the film the Second Gun. The film probe was
shown to CBS News Personal at CBA Television City. Well
two weeks ago. They have taken a report back to
New York. I understand that they are going to explore
the entire American assassination syndrome, that John Kennedy assassination, the
(06:03):
Robert King assassination, Robert Kennedy rather and the Martin Luther
King and of course the attempted shooting which crippled Governor Wallace.
And this is scheduled for November nineteen seventy five. As
just mentioned a boys Los Angeles Times, it's something which
was incredible. They have carried the entire second Gun story
(06:26):
on the front page seven years later after.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
And three pages later, two full pages.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Well, we first brought out the news when I fathered
this investigation based on the developments into the ledged conspiracy
and of course the Second Gun development.
Speaker 5 (06:43):
We were abused and we were ready to.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Hold tell me about it, and we still are.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
About Iron News blackout on this. Now, look what's happened.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
For those of you who don't know Ted Cheray and
don't know about the Second Gun, because we pick up
new listeners all the time, maybe you should explain how
you got into the Robert Kennedy case, and then we'll
go to a few more basic things like your movie.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Because we do have new people breaking in the news.
I don't know you. It's always surprising to me, but
it's never it's a good starting point. It's never too
late to well.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
As I was at the Ambassador Hotel seven years ago
as a reporter and still working in broadcast journalism and
a documentary film work, and I was outside the kitchen.
Speaker 5 (07:30):
Pantry when we heard the first shots.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
I was interviewing Bobby Kennedy's a brother in law, Stephen Smith,
and I entered the kitchen pantry and I heard the story.
Speaker 5 (07:40):
Of the so called girl of polka.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Dot dress that disappeared and others involved with their hand
and I interviewed the witnesses that morning, and I intended
to create a souvend documentary based on the presidential election
of nineteen sixty eight and the candidates and Bobby Kennedy's
aspirations for the presidency. And while during this documentary, I
(08:06):
began to stumble on evidence. Some of this evidence, of course,
UH was a parent to any researcher that was doing
his homework or any professional investigative reporter, and should have
been even noticeable to homicide detectives because there was a
conflict in the eyewitness testimony where Sir Hanna was standing.
(08:29):
You know, Sir Hannah Foyce was placed well in front
of Senator Kennedy and doctor Magrucci. The Los Angeles Corner
brought in the autopsy report which showed that Senator Kennedy
was killed all from behind at raised her contact range.
So this was quite shocking to me. And then, of
course later we had our own newsman inside the kitchen
pantry that worked with me, Jeff Frentz, and he had
(08:50):
recorded an interview with Donald Sulman. Donald Sulman had worked
for kN x T, the CB's television affiliate station in
Los Angeles.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
Shulman was talking about a guard or guards.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Pulling their guns and a guard firing his gun right
behind Senator Kennedy and this guard dropping to the floor,
and Shulman, of course was in a state of apprehension.
Of course he didn't know Sir Hanna or the guard
from anyone else, but it was a very confusing situation
and no one wanted to believe Shulman. They had a
discredit him, intimidate him. And I said, well, how could
(09:22):
a man clear a story like that? So first of all,
I had to establish that there was a uniform security
guard inside that kitchen pantry or guards, and there certainly were,
and contrary to the Los Angeles Police Department book on
the case, the historically deceptive book, especially in the Senator,
there was a guard of extreme right wing persuasion. So
who hired this guard and where did he come from?
(09:44):
And were security infiltrated that night? So we began to
have the threads of the master conspiracy and where do
these threads lead?
Speaker 5 (09:52):
And that's what interested me.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
And I took my tapes after two years of work,
to the well known and respected attorney god for Isaac,
and he was appalled at what he heard. At first,
he was skeptical. He called in the major witnesses, not
only Donald Truman, but Carl Yucker, who was the chief
witness for the prosecution. They mister Yuker was leading Kennedy.
Speaker 5 (10:11):
By the hand.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
He said Kennedy had started to move, and that Senator Kennedy,
the presidential Kennedy was of course facing Sir hann so
that no gunman could get behind mister Yuker, who was
a bank man and a tall man and was blocking,
uh you know, an attempted shooting. At the time that
Sir Hans started firing, there was a pause and mister
(10:32):
Yuker grabs her hand and threw him in a headlock
and over the serving table while the real hitman, the gunman,
was standing behind and dropped to the floor. And people
have to realize this, it was only four or five
feet who was very confusing the situation, and therefore we
had the makings of a real life Who's Done It.
I took all these tapes over to a friend of mine,
(10:55):
a fellow journalist documentarian, Gherard L. Khan, and we emerged
Star Towns and Services to form the first theatrical feature
journalistic film, The Second Gun. There's never been a film
made like this the history of the medium.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
The highlight of the Boston conference was your movie The
Second Gun.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
It was a highlight of the conference last January in Boston.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
There are a group of researchers that presented their opinions, theories,
documents or evidence, But the really highlight was there because
you had it on film. You had the people, you
had the police, authorities. You had the gunman talking himself.
The motive was there, the connections, the subtlety of the
cover up, the people whose hands would give to investigate
(11:37):
these matters, they were all there.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
You could see them. They talk. Certainly, it's all there.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
We had a documentation, and of course that I bought
in because of the world famous cime experts into this case,
so William Harper and later professor of Herbert MacDonald of
New York Wates Harbor Propacadora that corroborated that two twenty
two caliber guns were involved in the assassination. Now, of
course the pressure is building up. Now you know the trouble.
I hadn't trying to get this film before the American people,
(12:01):
and that is why it's very important for your listeners
now that we do as.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
We described the Second Gun.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Because it did open in Boston, it opened in New
York and it got good reviews, nominated for a prize
winning documentary.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Then it was taken off. It's been off. Now we're
going to begin circulating.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
We want to talk about people listening to this show
riding to me and riding to Ted and we'll tell
you where to get the film in your town, whether
it's New York or Second Man or San Luibisco. The
actual making of the film The Second Gun, which is
the story of The Second Gunman a documentary tell you
know some of the hassles what it was to produce
(12:35):
a movie of this kind.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
This is a tremendous job when you realize the forces.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Oh what was just unbelievable because, as you know, we
had a lot of threats. This girl, Betty Dryer, that
was going to cranisfy our tapes. Two men came out
the dark and cut her up pretty badly and demanded
to know whether if IRAQ tapes were which we're going
to be used in the film.
Speaker 5 (12:58):
The Second Gun. And of course the media.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Was questioning our integrity and putting up malicious, irresponsible stories
there were.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Of course, by the interject, not only was the media
doing it, and you're talking about intelligence or counter intelligence,
even your associates or my associates, the researchers have been.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
As big a stumbling block as the media. They must
be part of it.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
They must be in some way insidiously linked because they
have put therefoot, They've tried to put you in the background,
and it's been a testing your strength or courage, because
they had tried to pass the ball to this other
person who co opt you when the case got fig well,
of course you know that Bernard Fnce, the Waldo, the
Committee to Investigate Assassinations must be some sort of a
(13:45):
front organization because.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
The time and the integage that dispense to Wall spent
to try to undermine my investigation. Yes, and William Harp
is the climate expert, and mister Isaac is just unbelievable.
And then Robert black Heieser, the other investigator that was
hooked to the Sir Han defense team, he did a
(14:07):
character assassination job on all of us. Finally we had
enough and we had to hit him with a three
million dollars libel suit. And they were putting out the
worst stories and false toy not only orally, but putting
us into newspapers and magazines. It was an atrocity, and
we put a stop to all this. Sir Hann's own defense,
(14:27):
a team headed by Luke mackissick I, sent Sir Hannah
letter trying to turn.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
Us into crazies and nuts and says, Sir.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
Hann, if that gun, your gun is refired again, it'll
prove that we better not have it refired.
Speaker 5 (14:40):
It'll prove the bulls came from your gun.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
The fatal boat, when everyone knows the fatal boat was
so fragmented in pieces that the even the firearms examiner
in the Los Angeles Police Department couldn't say it came
from the sir hand gun or any other gun.
Speaker 5 (14:52):
And he's the chief defense counsul this and Milke McKissick.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
To keep all this new evidence developed by my seven
year probe and the forensic work probably the great criminalist
Professor McDonald of New York and William Harper Pasadena out
of the courts.
Speaker 5 (15:12):
And now can you imagine.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
This may that they sentenced the defendants their hand with
another gun. Why because evidently that's their handgun was damaged.
So they thought whoever was directing the activities in there
and they are supposed to be CIA links into the
criminal conspiracy section the for a run who was a
special Unit senator and they said, listen, you know, use
(15:35):
this gun. In other words, I'll.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
Never know the differences.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
And that's right, and fire the bullets and you'll get
and put these bullets in evidence and say they came
from the cirt hand gun. But just like they made
a little mistake and left the tape in the Warner
Gate inadvertently. You know these smart smart gun they they
numbered the gun they were using. Then they got caught
in the fiasco. So they created one eye. And that's
when the people should be shocked because they put out
(15:59):
still it's oh wow. In other words, it's all tampering,
phony evidence.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
But then the beginning in Dallas, Texas where they had
a German Mauser and twenty four hours later it's an
Italian gun.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
It changes nationality, changed its shape, and you know right there.
But this is years later.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
And people are like yourself, stayed with it and remember
the past and just stayed with what you saw the
ambassador and pursued it, you know, with.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
The John Kennedy thing when he was assassinated.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
The car was destroyed within forty eight hours, and nobody
asked any questions or.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
Do you think the citizens of California would appeal to
the governor and the Attorney General's office. Of course, Younger
is the one that prosecuted because they say it's just
an error. Even if it is an error, which we
know isn't it's the big lie technique. Do we establish
in a democratic society justice by so called error, in
other words, that you sentenced defenders with another gun once
(16:48):
you have the murder weapon. This is incredible.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Well, the attorney for sir hanser And, because they had
an interview in the newspaper and I showed it to
I think last year when the thing the articles came
out about the second gun and the autopsy discrepancies, he said,
believe it, if my client didn't kill Robert Kennedy, he
came there with the intent to do so. Well, if, sir,
and it appears has been programmed or hypnotized to forget
(17:13):
what happened. We don't know if he came with the
intent to kill anybody at all, or just to take
the reb Oswald didn't go with the intent to kill
anybody when he went to the book.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
Well, of course we know that hypnotism was involved in this.
You know, the painful experiences of his past exploited, and
he's coached and coaxed and cohersed, and they used even
drugs and mysticism and hypnotism. Of course, why you know
those diaries not even written by sir hand, They are
(17:43):
allegedly forged for he's under some sort of an influence,
and of course there is leads in this, and there's
been an investigation that's been going on. Betsy Langman in
New York wrote, the Harper's article has brought in a
famous psychiatrist, doctor Hermie Spiegel, and he says, Sir Hannes
is under a fifth degree. Of course, I'm I'm not
(18:04):
an expert in this, but as a layman talking fifty degree,
which is a real deep and hypnotic state. And that's
why Sir Fan says, I can't remember. I don't know
how I got there. Now, Sir Hannah is supposed to
be highly intelligent, maybe emotionally disturbed, but he has an
a passionate nature, and he has an interest in what's
going on, and he doesn't know how he got there.
How he find a gun. And his mother said that
(18:26):
if he would cut, she'd be cutting some meat and
it'd be a little bit of blood. He'd be sensitive
that that he was a highly sensitive use. And therefore
he was used as a dupe and as a decoy.
And I have no doubt we were gonna probably see
a Dyak Jack Ruby situation.
Speaker 5 (18:43):
They were gonna knock out man.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
But yeah, Kennedy backed up towards the ice machine, and
the real gunman panicked and saw that, and he fired
those professional shots down to up Mary and they right
to left, back to front. And you think he stayed
in there. He got out of the room and he
got powdered in his eyes. Now the Los Angele, the
police department, doesn't you know he dropped his tie. And
then he told the Los Angele, the police department, Oh,
(19:05):
I didn't get my gun out. And when the FBI came,
he didn't know what they knew or didn't know. He said, well,
when I got up from the floor, I took out
my gun. Later, sixteen months after the tragedy, when he
wasn't aware that I was undertaking an extensive investigation and
was aware what Donald Shulman saw a security guard pulling
his gun and finding his gun and the deep powder
(19:26):
burns all in behind Senator Kennedy's rear ear, which would show,
of course that the gun was right up there from
back to front. Well, this guard, Fane Eugene Caesar, of course,
admitted that he pulled that gun out instantly, just as
soon as the shots were fired. And then he tells
the the DA investigators. They don't do a lighted at
(19:47):
their cast. They cover up. He pulled his gun only
when he got up from the floor. So they were
contradictions and variances in his stories which were not investigated.
And the police said there weren't any right wing extra
miss inside.
Speaker 5 (20:00):
The kitchen pantry. And we all know the thing. Eugene
Caesar is a political right wing extremist.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
That I have so on your movie, you haven't seen
them saying Kennedy's giving country.
Speaker 5 (20:09):
That the Niggers.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
Yeah, that's right. That's why people must see The Second Gun.
And I origin them to get in touch with American Films,
American Films with the ray Axelrod's office at nine six
oh one Wilster Boulevard at nine six o one Wilster
in Beverly Hills, Sweet five to one to two. The
fact they can phone them at area code two one
three two seven four seven five. But if they write
to American Film and stay, we demand to see the
(20:32):
Second Gun film. Prob You must see the sophisticated full
length feature and you will see for yourself the evidence
which is forcing May because May is Russell, of course,
is one of the foremost researchers in America and realizes exactly.
Speaker 5 (20:47):
Where all the strings go to.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
And that's why we we have work so long and
so hard to cooperate and funnel everything to you, because
you can see the foundation and the layers, and it
is very interesting and I feel that this film must
be brought out to every community in America. There's no
doubt now that the pressure is on to reopen that
John F. Kennedy assassination, Martin Luther King, George Wallace, and
(21:11):
of course I know now that the Robert Kennedy case
will be reopened, and I predict it will be reopened
within less than ninety days, in probably sixty days.
Speaker 5 (21:21):
And if it isn't open right here.
Speaker 4 (21:23):
In through California, through the legislature, the District Attorney's offers
now is getting the pressure. Joe Bush just died on
the day he had decided just.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
The district let me read this argument in Los Angeles
is not the whole thing.
Speaker 5 (21:38):
But because I'll be a congressional investigation.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Sunday morning, July thirteenth, nineteen seventy five. It begins just
before his death.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
On June twenty seventh, District Attorney Joseph Bush had considered
ways to reopen aspects of the case.
Speaker 5 (21:51):
Amazing.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Now that is the outline of my Murderville, USA. You
see doctor Joseph Bush.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Here's an argu by William far and John Kendall.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
And yeah, nobody makes the link that Joseph Bush, who
was young, died because he was going to open it up.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
That that possibility is And I.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
Think I think he told Attorney General Younger and the
last thing Younger wants is for the case to be reopened.
After all they put on they knew that if anything
was ever discovered in this case, if anything was ever blown,
that they would be held accountable. Well, today they are accountable.
And you must write Governor Jerry Brown today and say
that you want him to see the second gun film
(22:28):
and you want this case reopened and an investigation of
Attorney General, the Younger's office and Robert Holton, who were
in charge of this investigation, and when they had the
opportunity to look at this evidence.
Speaker 5 (22:40):
You know, it's one thing to discredit me, is an
investigator report.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
Even though we did a highly professional journalistic investigation, they
couldn't discredit mister Harper, the crime expert. I brought her
the piece because he'd worked for them, their District Attorney's office,
the United States Naval Intelligence.
Speaker 5 (22:55):
So what did they do?
Speaker 4 (22:56):
Made you know, you know the old Yes, after all
you you've researched this better than any other researcher in America.
Speaker 5 (23:04):
They discredited the evidence.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Bony lies research, saying that people could get at the
evidence and tamper with the evidence.
Speaker 5 (23:11):
Now this is a big lie technique.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
Now, now the pressure is on because even though Bush
went to his grave, far got the story out that
Bush had had it enough. All this response, all the
good work, all your listeners, writing the Congressman center in
Kennedy's office, writing Governor Garry Brown, and now hoping that
they will demand to see the film the Second Gun.
Speaker 5 (23:34):
It forced.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
I think that that Joe Bush was going to reform
Chief Davis. He was going to reopen the case. But Younger,
of course, is getting involved with I call it, and
he wants a political job.
Speaker 5 (23:43):
He doesn't want this case.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
And I believe that Younger and Bush were fighting over
this matter because Younger put Bush up to the cover
up in nineteen seventy one. Bush had an opportunity to
get at the truth and opened up, and yet they.
Speaker 5 (23:56):
Count five months and they put a lid on it.
It was a whitewash up.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
The powers are too strong because, for one thing, Ronald
Reagan said that he believed that assassinations shouldn't be told
the public.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
They should have what they need to know.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
And I read on Dialogue Conspiracy your lawsuit against chief
of Please Davis and.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Evil Younger a few years ago, where you.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Said that they do not have the right to decide
what we need to know. How come that lawsuit never
wants her? Did it just stop what happened? No?
Speaker 4 (24:22):
Well, one of the reasons is I had a great
deal of respect for attorney guard for Isaac, and I
didn't have a big enough power base. But when Attorney
Guard for Isaac, after co operating with him over an
extensive period and turning over all my materials to him,
was called upon by the sir Han family sir Han's
mother married Sir Hann to enter the case, I felt
(24:44):
it would be the national interest. He took the case
without compensation, made that if he was representing the defendant
for a huge trial, that all my investigation would be
contributed in the interests of truth and justice. So the
story would get out and we could subpoena all these witnesses.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
So in a case against.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
That, mister Isaac, obviously Sir Hannes representing Sir Hanne, he
had a greater chance to get the case re opened
based on the new evidence because he is the dependent
directly involved.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Yeah, but the problem is this, you have this, we didn't.
The problem you see, this is the problem which you have.
This is the problem that Congress and Michael Harrington has.
He says, do you owe the honesty of the constituency
and the laws of the land or to the CIA,
which says everything's national security and their committing crimes in
their lyne the major laws. It more important at the
(25:39):
time opening up Sir Han's case in that pecking order,
I think was your case on how much can the
public officials hold back on criminal matters?
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Do they have to decide right to decide what we
know and what we need to know?
Speaker 3 (25:54):
You see, now we have Ronald Reagan, who could be
our next president. And this is why I think evil
Young and these people are pushing forward so they can
get Reagan into there. And Reagan says, you don't have
the right to know, And that's what.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Was primary in your case. There was do they have
the right to decide what evidence?
Speaker 5 (26:09):
And I should have.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
Had support from a concerned citizens committee or the ACL
you and instead, and there were a lot of you
were talking, and they put up this missus palmerants and
they agitated her. She's a wealthy benefactor, she's done a
lot of good, but they put her up the fence
to walls to agitate and create assension between mister Harper
and myself and Kaiser and everybody went into mister Harper's house.
(26:34):
And mister Harper, of course is a brilliant man. He's
a genius, but he's a man of temperament, and he's
of ill health. And they confused this poor man. Of course,
his scientific work stands on his own. So I brought
you a year ago the first evidence, new evidence.
Speaker 5 (26:51):
I said, Okay, let.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
All these kooky people and all these plagiarists and these
character assassins. And I'm sorry to say of them are vultures.
Some are responsible, irresponsible, some are very some are sincerely motivated.
But let them do all the damage they want. I
presented Professor mcgonald independent Ballastan photographs of the bolts, and
(27:13):
he gave me a new half of David, which normally
proved that there were two different types of guns. You see,
there are two twenty two caliber guns, but two guns
were using the assassination, which of course indicated a second gunman,
but they were of different ammunition.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
You know.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
So but you see, you have to understand that I
didn't foresee that, Luke McKissick. Well, I did in a
way that was I couldn't control the situation. Luke mckisson
of course stayed in in the case when God reentered,
and then he stayed within sight and he began to
tear at the entire fabric and destroyed mister Isaac's representation,
(27:53):
so that when this went before the California State Supreme Court,
McKissick made sure that Isaac was eliminated from the case.
And the courts never got the information, the new evidence,
and they never got the fact that now they used.
So it took another well over a year and a
half to convince mister Isaac in good conscience to take
this case. And Marries her hand came there crying on
(28:14):
her hands and knees, and you know what, they had
spent another year since Isaac has been in and took
his time to study this matter and bring it up.
They brought an alert Lowenstein and Lowenstain while asked to
see the film and making all kinds of commitments and
prompts this to me, and I believed in him sincerely
and turned them over to other researchers, including Lilian Castelano.
(28:37):
That's done a lot of work and she disseminates a
lot of information and she gathers all this and she
helps everyone. And I gave an introduction to mister Isaac
and he met with my associates Gerard al Conna, Beverly Hills,
and he asked for all the data, all the correspondents
he would get, he'd get correctial investigation and give us
media exposure. And then he put the clamp on us
and he put pressure on me to be disassociated. Now
(28:59):
behind the scenes, he says he hadn't did want anything
to do. He didn't go to the Kennedy's. He had
gone to the Kennedys. He was rejected, but he said
he had nothing to do with Sir han Case. He's
doing independent out of the syen case fabrication. He went
in and out of Mary Sir Hans home. He sent
emissaries other people to the Sir han family he was
(29:21):
and offered them funding and all the money they would need,
and he would provide all the direct help that Elerd
Lowenstein could get control of the So we wonder what
is going on here?
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Well, I think one of the answers to what's going
on to the Sir hand case is one of the
motives came out in the Los Angeles Times has been
the press this week. It was the fact that Robert
Kennedy's Attorney General, was furious that the mafia and the
CIA were blood brothers, that they work together. Now the
Mafia was San Giacano and Roselli working with the US Corporation,
Robert may Who and the other agents of the US people.
(29:56):
And in the Surian case, the first attorney for Sir
hanser And was Grant Cooper, who represented Roselli and the mafia,
who came right out of the youth's nest.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Robert what a mess.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
I first stipulated to everything and he didn't bring in
any other experts.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
So he was like Perst Grant Cooper was the sir
answer what Percy Foreman was to James rell Wright But
the point is that Robert Kennedy wanted to break the CIA.
His brother had had ordered him as the Attorney General
to get rid of the top people the CIA after
they have pigs. He didn't want the mafia in the CIA.
He didn't want to say a period, much less the mafia.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
So now in the can of worms, you have, sir answer.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
And used by Lockheed the guard fame Caesar comes from Lockheed.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Blood brother part of Parcels, the youth corporation.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
He came home at five in the evening. His wife says,
you're supposed to guard Robert Kennedy.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
He was not a regular empoint of Lockey. He was
what they call the maintenance man.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Well, we didn't know in sixty eight what a plumber
was and CIA terms, what's a maintenance man?
Speaker 2 (30:55):
A plumber? Where did he come from?
Speaker 5 (30:57):
See?
Speaker 3 (30:57):
So the fame sees a link to the us CIA
links I think are so would be so strong and
the lawyer for sir hand and everything that. I think
the reason they try to co opt you or push
you out is to make it a low level plot,
like just a civil organized crime and leave the CIA
used corporation out of it. See they'll pin it on
the MAFI if they have to, but not the use.
(31:19):
And this is why they're pushing you around, because you
and I are not afraid to say, Yeah, the committee
of forty five men order these murders, the President orders
these murders and put the responsibility where it is right
at the top.
Speaker 4 (31:32):
Well, you know, there's hanky panking political practice if this
isn't so irrespective of all the new evidence. When finally,
after all these years and heartaches and headaches, when God
bids it that deserves thanks from every American finally brings
the writ before the California State Supreme Court and the
High Court is told defended in this case, and they
see exhibit is sentenced not with the gun allegedly taken
(31:55):
from him, which has a serial number H five three
seventy five, but there's other guns at so too, which
was destroyed by the Los Ange Police Department a month
after the assassination. And then they changed the files made
because they the record showed that this gun was supposed
to be available during the court during the sir hand
court trial, and therefore they said, oh it was changed
and it was destroyed a year later. So one way
(32:17):
or another, the only gun links scientifically to the case
has been destroyed. Now ISAAC tells the High Court, and
the Court doesn't even comment and rejects it. So if
you don't think there's political.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Pressure, how about the bullets?
Speaker 3 (32:28):
If there are thirteen bullets and Sir Han's gun shoes
eight and the High Court doesn't take that as a
fact of conspiracy.
Speaker 4 (32:37):
Right now, with the Los Angeles Times, they've moved two
stories inside of a week on this because they turned
over the American Academy Forensic Scientists, you know, which was
they wrote me a thank you.
Speaker 5 (32:47):
Letter that it was your second gun.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Yes, they called me there, they called the panel discussion,
and doctor Robert Joeling, the Evident President, convened a special
investigative committee. And your listeners should know this investigated committee
by the American Academy Forensic Scientists recommend which is you're
leading scientists to testify in courtrooms, ballistics experts, crime expert, criminalists, pathologists.
(33:12):
They have recommended not reopening the case. And of course
ironeous falistics evidence has been introduced in the American courtroom. Therefore,
I dv from what I said several years ago that
every citizen's right for affair for a just trial under
the law is now in jeopardy because Ironi's ballistics are firearms.
Evidence has been introduced in American courtroom. You know, in
(33:33):
a stellar case criminalist William W. Harper, Pasadena and the
world famous crime expert, Professor Herbert MacDonald of Corning, New York.
They're both willing to testify. In fact, so with Lowell
Bradford expert that concerning the extensive investigation and scientific discoveries.
And this statement by mister Harper is very important.
Speaker 5 (33:55):
The science of criminalistics died.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
Too when they buried Kennedy, though, was responsible get away
with this complete breakdown of the legal and judiciary processes.
Well established teachings of criminalistics and forensic pathology were cast
aside and bypassed in favor of a more expedient solution
and unfortunately an erroneous oversimplification. So who is responsible for
(34:20):
this big whitewash. Let's bring Chief Davis and it is
the Attorney's office and ever younger at all these ads
into a hearing, and a full congressional hearing. Now is
the time to write Senator Cranston, Senator Tunny, your congressman,
and of course the Bombard, American Films and Beverly Hills.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
So those of you who.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
Want to we're talking pretty fast, and maybe you don't
have a pencil, and we started, you didn't leave together.
In the meantime, write to KLR and B and send
a self addressed envelope and I'll tell you where you
can get the film in your hometown. And if possible,
maybe ten sch Rock would come and speak to the colleges.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Of the fall.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
Open it in the fall, because I know a lot
of your in summer vacation now and have the second
gun in your communities like Sacramento, Salt Lake City, Ohio,
and wherever we send these tapes, get the second gun
there and Ted will get there and talk about this evidence.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
You know, I've been doing this conspiracy.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
Work for eleven years, and the Los Angeles Times story
broke in.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
My family called.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
Me this week and they began to believe, well, maybe
there was something to the truth that I've been saying,
because they don't read the Berkeley Barn, the LA Free Press,
the alternative news media. But the LA Times had the story.
And the thing that shocked my family the most was
a picture of Robert Kennedy's coat with a sleeve cut off,
and it has under the question.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
How many bullet holes might be in it if it
were found and the sleeve was missing.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
This is a very simple thing like thirteen bullets and
Sir Hans gun.
Speaker 5 (35:49):
Shoos eight times reported. When did I reported in.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Nineteen seventy one, Ted had a report he says sealed
in heavy wax barrels in the Los.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Angeles Hall of Justice, part.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Of record, including Robert Kendy's clothes with the left arm
sleeve missing.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
The description is not for public consumption. What of the
fohemer DA's motives?
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Now you take the parallel, youngest, take the parallels. John
Candy's coat is locked up for seventy five years. John
Colly's said to the dry Clinger, so the Warrant Commission
couldn't use it.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
They cut off his sleeve.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
They took in Dallas, the car away, the lamp post away,
the streamside, the autops, the X rays were locked up.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
All this is important. It was they had knocked up
John Candy's coat.
Speaker 4 (36:31):
You cut this, you think that it was some sort
of cancer or disease the way they ran from it.
Speaker 5 (36:38):
But now it's on the front page with pictures and
proof that what I was saying is proven. And they'll say, well,
I was saying with some crack.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Now the sleeve was there's thirteen bullets in the ambassador.
There could have been many more. So the point is
that it was the clear cut case.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
Here was a sleeve thirteen bullets and how could they
sit it an eight bullet revolver? And the autops are
again a lot of people don't know. We haven't brought
up we have a nit or two. The autopsy confirm
the ballistics, the difference in the build of mister Wisel
and mister Kennedy center Kennedy right, certainly.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
Well, that's why I think that with all this new
information and can affirming the evidence which has been developed,
people should write and bone and wired the Senator's comment
and see the second gun film. Of course, they can
get in touch with Governor Jerry Brown's office and Sacramento
and demand that this case be reopened and flood the
Attorney General's office and the District Attorney's office.
Speaker 5 (37:31):
In Los Angeles.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
And of course, if we will bring the second gun
to your community, and I will come and speak there,
and I suppose a maze within the limits of time
might be able to come to and discuss this.
Speaker 5 (37:44):
Right from the theater stage.
Speaker 4 (37:45):
So it's very important now for the people to get
this second gun out into every community because I think
the truth is going to make us strong.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Thank you for coming to I'm really glad you're in Carmel.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
Then just dropped in for one day, and I'm glad
you could be here because I was going to do
the entire show on the new evidence of the second gun.
But it's better for you to hear him and meet him,
and I'll see you next week on Dialogue Conspiracy
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